suggestions-discussion

[glass arch]

i mean hey at least its just a pick power lock and not an actual forced progression lock

[vocal cedar]

Post-Skeletron feels nice for traversing difficult areas

Not like Skeletron has anything else going for him

[hollow shell]

Make it so Scoria Ore can be mined with pre-Golem pickaxes, but something post-Golem locks your ability to smelt them into bars?
So, equipment tiers stay the same, and you don't have to go back again one boss later

Is there something else in post-Golem abyss I'm forgetting?

[vocal cedar]

Yea that'd work

[crude geode]

Mid hardmode makes me wanna scream still

Even with ravager being moved

[frail fox]

Real tier

Just try making plant-golem feel like a real tier and that solves at least 500 issues

[lucid marsh]

Is the ancient manipulator close enough?

[vocal cedar]

More reason for Levi/Ana and less reason for Golem
Especially since Golem has plenty after is already because vanilla

[hollow shell]

Ehhhh

[crude geode]

Inbetween Post 3 Mechs and Lunatic Cultist is so much shit

[vocal cedar]

Lhizarhd Forge exists but it'd be odd

Plus it isn't post golem

You can just hoik

[frail fox]

Scoria now requires beetle shells clearly

[hollow shell]

Would mean that, following progression, we'd lose Scoria for these bosses

(ignore funny wiki formatting)

[lucid marsh]

Ok good point, I don't want to lose scoria for those

[hollow shell]

...
Not the worst idea.

[lucid marsh]

Those bosses are all above the difficulty curve for vanilla equipment at that tier (even the vanilla ones)

[hollow shell]

Honestly how many new mats are there post-Golem?
Beetle Husks aren't a bad pick

[frail fox]

Beetle shells are so random like why does golem drop these and why are they used for one thing it’s funny

[lucid marsh]

No others, I think.

[crude geode]

God I forgot Duke and EoL are inbetween Golem and Lunatic in Cal

wtf

[lucid marsh]

They're a bizarre artifact of a time when golem was the final boss, and then duke Fishron shortly after

Remember: melee gets an armor before planetera and then one after golem, while the equivalent ones for the other classes are post plantera, pre golem

It's weird

[hollow shell]

I'm old enough to remember that Beetle Husks & armor got added a few updates after Golem did
so they were a thing that was appended

[lucid marsh]

Oh I totally remember that

[crude geode]

Redigit design moment

[lucid marsh]

I was watching Yrimir at the time, and I think Baum shortly after

Then later, he vanished

[vocal cedar]

Actually i'd kinda enjoy if we only got Hydrothermic after Golem, but the rest of Scoria after Ana&Levi
Kinda like Bloodstone after Providence but Bloodflare after 'Ghast

[hollow shell]

RIP Yrimir

[lucid marsh]

And then returned for one episode, and then vanished again

Does anyone know what happened to him?

[hollow shell]

Hm.
I personally am not a huge fan of that dynamic, feels a bit unintuitive

[vocal cedar]

Just have Hydrothermic need post-Golem mats and you're golden

[frail fox]

Eh

[hollow shell]

I guess it has vanilla precedent via the celestial fragment weapons vs armor

[vocal cedar]

It kinda is, but it'll help abyss progression

[lucid marsh]

I heard he had health issues at one point, then made another video, but then he disappeared again like I said

So like really does anyone actually know, I'm curious

[vocal cedar]

Crimtane/Demonite as well

[lucid marsh]

I think hydrothermal armor is fine the way it is, despite overshadowing vanilla armors

[hollow shell]

Oh true true

[vocal cedar]

I have no problem with it
My issue lies with you having to beat a boss, go to abyss, beat the next boss and go to abyss AGAIN

(Leviathan and Golem respectively)

[lucid marsh]

Oh right. I usually focus on uh...

Something else between that time. I forget what.

I don't always do things in exactly the same order

[vocal cedar]

Aureus maybe

[lucid marsh]

Probably

[vocal cedar]

I like to do Aureus immediately after Plantera

After the Seasonal Moons technically

[frail fox]

You don’t have to go to the abyss immediately after beating levana, they still drop good stuff you can use for Golem, but I mean normally people will go boss, abyss, boss, abyss ig

[vocal cedar]

It's the normal way
Unless you want Depth Cells weapons to feel subpar (And Scoria not subpar)

[crude geode]

Disagree heavily. So many of Cal’s armors just feel like “use this set but with your class’ helmet” for a few bosses with no variation. Aerialite, Cryogen’s armor, Slime God’s set, and pretty much all post ml sets suffer from this. It hurts especially so because the vanilla armors in that section are actually unique and do different things.
That said five helmet sets are a known problem and hopefully should see more changes (aerialite rework my beloved)

[frail fox]

I mean they’re (supposed to be) equal to post-golem weapons so it’s not like you’re really losing anything

[vocal cedar]

Eh. Still overshadowed by Scoria unless you're ranger

Ranger Depth Cells weaps are way stronger than Helstorm

Helstorm...

[frail fox]

I mean so are melees and mages in the current patch

[vocal cedar]

Mages debatable. Melee you're right

[lucid marsh]

I see your point

[vocal cedar]

Actually maybe not, doesn't scoria have a yo-yo?

[gray bone]

fault line

[lucid marsh]

Oh btw, I know mage is the weaker option, but try playing it with no mana potions but instead mana regen and magic power potions available all the time

It's pretty fun that way

[frail fox]

Abyss Blade and Typhon’s Fury are braindead to use and are better than the scoria weapons

But again, regardless of balance, they’re ideally intended to be equals (even if they may not be currently)

[vocal cedar]

Flamberge definitely. I just haven't played around with the yoyo much

[frail fox]

The biggest benefit Scoria has is Vulcanite being a good deus killer

[vocal cedar]

I guess so.
Just having post-Golem tier weapons before it feels odd, but who really cares about Golem itself tbh
It's the only thing you can do after Levi unless you skipped Aureus so I wont argue there

[lucid marsh]

By the way, I've talked about this before, but...

If having too many armor sets between mechs and moon lord is a concern, you can move some of them back a tier or two

They'd fit in that way

[vocal cedar]

Is this about Forbidden and Frost

[frail fox]

I mean post-levi and aureus weapons essentially being post-golem in terms of balance makes sense because else literally nobody is fighting them if the weapons are the same as others, I assume that makes sense I’m tired

[vocal cedar]

If so, I agree ngl

[frail fox]

Is it a concern? Or moreso are there other examples besides frost-for it?

[lucid marsh]

Not just forbidden and frost

But also turtle armor

[vocal cedar]

No I agree
It could only cause issues for Golem itself but as I've said I could not care less about that fight specifically
Maybe just a me thing byea you're right

[frail fox]

Golem hit by a nuclear bomb

[vocal cedar]

🤷** **

[vocal cedar]

Oh yea wasn't that a Cog suggestion?
I did enjoy that one

[lucid marsh]

Yeah

[median scaffold]

Were Quick and Arcane reforges changed in the previous updates? I forgot about them...

[sand marlin]

Quick is getting buffed via base speed config becoming multiplicative

[median scaffold]

No news about Arcane yet, I suppose?

[sand marlin]

Nothing

[sand marlin]

#suggestions-posting message I think they just still haven't found something to replace it yet

Nothing really wrong with the suggestion anyway

[whole tundra]

Signus, Envoy of the Distortion

so good

[weary bane]

just call bro signus for the time being then

[hollow shell]

Honestly just a one word name could go hard

No titles no monikers
His name alone speaks for itself

.. or it could look simple and boring.
The risk.

[vocal cedar]

Probably saving that for Yharim

[umbral gazelle]

rename Signus to Sigma

[vocal cedar]

or crabulon

[hollow shell]

"Signus, Onyx Messiah"
or something like that ?

idk his new lore very well I just know some Onyx clan really likes him

[harsh echo]

Yes

it’d be fun if the other bosses had such long names and then it’s just “yharim”

[vagrant spindle]

i just think the current title makes things confusing

[vagrant spindle]

alternatively just The Godseeker

i kinda want that more honestly

[hollow shell]

It'll be the opposite
He'll get the Gray Prince Zote treatment and be listed with every title he's ever been known by

[harsh echo]

[vagrant spindle]

oh you mean the Invincible, Fearless, Sensual, Mysterious, Enchanting, Vigorous, Diligent, Overwhelming, Gorgeous, Passionate, Terrifying, Beautiful, Powerful, Grey Prince Zote?

[hollow shell]

Jungle Tyrant King Lord of the Cosmos Auric Dragonmaster Godseeker Yharim

[harsh echo]

is that his actual title.

[vagrant spindle]

yes

ok well

kinda

you can fight zote 10 times and after every win against him he gets stronger and gains one more title

[harsh echo]

LMAO

THIS IS ACTUALLY FIRE WHAT

[frozen hornet]

Pulling out the total calamity yharim list

Ok they definitely reduced it I remember there was like an entire paragraph of just names

Junle tyrant is hilarious though

Lord Jungle Tyrant King Yharim, the Godseeking Bad Auric Man

[gaunt needle]

the tyrant of the junle

[vagrant spindle]

audio junjle

[harsh echo]

Pull that up

[echo kestrel]

All-Seeing Tyrant of Ages, Eternal Scourge of Weakness, Supreme Conqueror of Mortal and Divine, Herald of Fire and Ruin, Unquestioned Sovereign of All Lands, Wrathful Arbiter of Power, Bringer of Unending Dominion, Godkiller Yharim the Godkiller

[whole tundra]

Destroyer of Worlds, Yharim

[olive saddle]

I don't know which is funnier

Zote name length Yharim or yharim in all lowercase

[gritty plaza]

Call him ʏʜᴀʀɪᴍ

Small caps go hard

[echo leaf]

If anyone fails to recite it perfectly they are executed on the spot

[light birch]

-# ʏʜᴀʀɪᴍ

[light birch]

Forced microphone suppport

You have to say it out loud

[echo leaf]

YES

[frozen hornet]

YES

THAT'S IT

Yharim, Death
Yharim, God
🔥 ✍️

[echo leaf]

God

[light birch]

I feel like a lot of those are a bit redundant, you really don't need every grammatically configuration of "Tyrant" and "Lord"

[sand marlin]

You do.

You don't get it.

[light birch]

I guess I don't

[frozen hornet]

It's peak

[echo kestrel]

Yharim’s the name, Calamity’s my game

[light birch]

Actually the game is terra- Gets shot

[coral carbon]

How many "Rename Signus" suggs there were that got the ❌️?

Because this is gonna be an another one

[wide river]

#suggestions-discussion message
#suggestions-discussion message
Only two that I can see, but they were both "neither passed nor denied" verdicts

[misty lichen]

so it would still be pointless

to suggest this

[drowsy plank]

yeah

[vagrant spindle]

well good to know

im just surprised it hasnt happened yet

[coral carbon]

Still, that's a 🔒, making this third one pointless

[drowsy plank]

@hollow shell considering the team very obviously knows about this would you want to add it to frequent after this one? if this passed it's just going to be the third time this gets rejected most likely

[hollow shell]

I wonder why they were marked with a lock specifically instead of a 🛠️, that's interesting

But uhh I think I would rather just

@vagrant spindle You already know what the result of your suggestion is going to be.

Do you want it to go to voting and everything just to see the 🔒 on yours too

(hint, hint)

[golden sonnet]

ban garbo iirc

[gray bone]

[median scaffold]

People don't want to have anything that somewhat resembles the sentinels, so the answer is yes

[vagrant spindle]

imma just delete it

[hollow shell]

Thank you

[median scaffold]

#suggestions-posting message
I quite like the elemental debuff system, but then I remember that almost all of them either have a DoT effect, or only have a DoT effect

Nothing to say against the suggestion, tho. We definitely need more variety in debuffs

[gaunt needle]

we need a different ichor-like debuff for each element (so you can stack them with all sorts of sources like bullets, arrows, flasks and weapons)

[median scaffold]

We need Ichor 2 (disables defense entirely)

[frail fox]

Marked for death flask

[light birch]

ACTUAL Pee flask, they are so grossed out they drop all their defense

(This is a joke, just to be 100% clear, I do not want actual pee in the game)

[sand marlin]

Too late for that

We have pee and poo.

[drowsy plank]

FROST CORES FOR FROSTBITE FLASK

[sand marlin]

💥

[drowsy plank]

use luminite for nightwither flasks

[sand marlin]

Wouldn't that be ruinous souls actually

Maybe not

Nvm

[drowsy plank]

yeah i was gonna say i thought moon lord inflicted nightwither

counterpart to daybreak

also making crumbling flasks use forbidden fragments instead

see my vision

it's not like the essences really need more sinks

they're like the one material that cal properly integrated

[sand marlin]

I mean Nightwither is part of the T3 abyss kit

[drowsy plank]

am i dumb
im checking nightwither now

[sand marlin]

It's probably gonna move to Moon Lord but I don't really find the idea of matching Luminite with it because Luminite is like grey metal

[novel belfry]

Is it not cyan?

I know it’s got black but it has cyan highlights

the grey metal is exodium

[sand marlin]

I mean I guess I see some cyan there

But that is still grey metal

Exodium is black

[novel belfry]

it’s grey.

[sand marlin]

Half grey half black huh

[novel belfry]

ya

hell, it’s more black than luminite

[drowsy plank]

black is a shade of grey

the darkest shade of grey

[crude geode]

flasks were a mistake

delete them

[novel belfry]

no u

[crude geode]

[gaunt needle]

delete all debuffs

[drowsy plank]

from the nightwither page lol

[crude geode]

but like actually I hate flasks bc wasn't the whole point of making the debuff system was so that debuffs matter more

[sand marlin]

Also

[drowsy plank]

i mean

[crude geode]

and they aren't just some random shit thrown onto weapons

[drowsy plank]

you need to consider the fact

that moon lord spawns exodium

and the stratus set

[novel belfry]

it’s also inflicted by polterghast too for some reason

[drowsy plank]

is locked by it's exodium requirement

hence connecting those items to moon lord

[novel belfry]

and moon bite too

[golden sonnet]

isn;t that all changed next update

[drowsy plank]

idr

[crude geode]

flasks to me just seem. really boring

[sand marlin]

Huh what do you know they're actually connected

Also that just proves exodium is the better material for it

[gaunt needle]

i don't see how flasks not contribute to debuff system

[drowsy plank]

oh fair actually

[crude geode]

my point is they contribute in a bad way

[golden sonnet]

ah, the opposite actually

[novel belfry]

I think it’s because most people just use ichor flasks and call it a day

[crude geode]

also that

[golden sonnet]

nightwither is moon lord and luminite themed only next update

[drowsy plank]

i think the fact flasks exist sometimes does actually lead to people using debuffs they wouldn't normally bother with

[golden sonnet]

night profaned and other stuff is now voidfrost

[drowsy plank]

like i dont think anyone is going to switch to a weapon for it's debuff unless it's like

[novel belfry]

maybe make ichor a “sickness” debuff and add defense reducing debuffs for other debuff classes?

[hollow shell]

Calling Stratus "T3 Abyss" is very interesting

[drowsy plank]

idk what's the one summon weapon

[gaunt needle]

i used (exclusively) crumbling post ML tho!

[crude geode]

that's the other one, congrats

[drowsy plank]

flasks existing, and having more options might actually lead people to use them

[sand marlin]

Oh dear

[drowsy plank]

the problem is they are usually weak, and if people aren't even willing to swap to a debuff flask i think it is even less likely for people to switch to another weapon just for the sake of its debuff

[sand marlin]

I kinda just matched the blues and the lumenyl ngl I never stopped to think about it

[gaunt needle]

however (iirc) DoT flasks are actually better (mainly cursed flames and whatever the profaned flames)

[drowsy plank]

cursed and holy are better against weak targets

[sand marlin]

And holy flames have... one effective target

[drowsy plank]

and poison and fire flasks actually do compete in the small stint of preHM that they are avaliable in before ichor and crumbling

[sand marlin]

Like 30 less than Ichor

[drowsy plank]

i think that just shows the lack of flask options is a real problem

having more debuffs be accessible would mean more bosses that actually have weaknesses to them

[crude geode]

Isn't that just compounding with the fact that every single weapon applies a debuff? like the one I can think of is mythril knives where it used to apply every single debuff in the game, basically, including 'post ml' ones

[drowsy plank]

mythril knives was dumb

also not every single weapon applies a debuff

calamity makes it so a lot more do, obviously, but that's definetly a bit ridiculous

[sand marlin]

Honestly do we really need holy flames as a flask? Prov gear already fills in that role and there is like seriously no reason to ever use flask of holy flames when Weaver is intended post Prov alongside other rune of kos bosses when most of its targets are either resistant or immune

[drowsy plank]

it only exists to utilize the old sprite tbh

[sand marlin]

I mean maybe Dragonfolly is weak too I didn't check

Yeah it is

[gaunt needle]

imagine if every single debuff class behaved differently (like ichor having flat armor reduction and crumbling having % DR reduction) leading to debuff weaknesses directly impacting weapon choice

and not just "use fire-style debuff against fire-vulnerable boss"

[sand marlin]

I mean that's one half of it

Ichor versus crumbling is already its own thing

I think it works just fine it's just AP isn't handled well post ML so Ichor especially post nerf just doesn't do anything at that stage anymore unless you're rogue

[echo leaf]

JARATE

[drowsy plank]

i remember cooking a joy buzzer debuff to give flask of party a debuff

but honestly electrified on nanites just seems like a no brainer lol

[echo leaf]

need excuse to fight the fish boss underwater that isn’t “durr abyssal amulet”

[drowsy plank]

do you mean like

the 25% increased HP in the abyss they give or something

[gaunt needle]

need more reason to flood the temple tbh

water arenas absolutely rock

[echo leaf]

the 50 defense you get for no reason

wait fuck

not abyssal amulet

aquatic charm

[drowsy plank]

aquatic emblem

[echo leaf]

yes please

[drowsy plank]

no that's

that's the item you're talking about

it's called aquatic emblem

the 50 defense AS drop

[lucid marsh]

Doesn't it cripple movement speed?

[drowsy plank]

10% ms isn't exactly crippling

[lucid marsh]

Ah. I wonder if that downside is countered by mounts

[golden sonnet]

oh no, less than half of a swiftness potion

[echo leaf]

It subtracts 10 from your movement speed bonus %

[crude geode]

There’s accessories that do far more movement speed decreases than 10%

[idle dagger]

Ah flasks

I definitely think more would be nice

[echo leaf]

So you go from +~80% movement speed to +~70%

Literally nothing

[idle dagger]

Godslayer flask 🔥

[crude geode]

Nanites sure are the material of all time

[echo leaf]

The only time I noticed movement speed reduction being noticeable was when I was mixing mollusk with cirrus’ dress and ursa sergeant

[idle dagger]

How many flasks even are there

[lucid marsh]

Crazy build idea...

[misty lichen]

mollusk does something special to your movement instead of just reducing numbers iirc

[idle dagger]

It’s definitely less than 10 right?

[lucid marsh]

Sky grid of water blocks in bubbles plus aquatic emblem plus Fishron mount

[gaunt needle]

better idea: completely flooded arena plus lava shark mount

[echo leaf]

the set bonus multiplies horizontal maximum speed and acceleration by 0.6x iirc

In addition to the -25% (???) from the shellplate and shelleggings

[crude geode]

Confusion really is just useless

[novel belfry]

You’re not the first one to think that

[echo leaf]

I like my suggestion better

[crude geode]

Didn’t some stuns get reworked to work on bosses?

[echo leaf]

Yes

But Confusion is legally not a stun so it doesn’t matter

they’re immune to the debuff

[crude geode]

Cool

Just make it so the boss targets in random directions

[novel belfry]

also
Imagine if you confused RAVAGER and he runs off and despawns because of the confusion

[crude geode]

Yeah exactly

[echo leaf]

ravager becomes an ICBM

[novel belfry]

im giggling at the thought of Nameless Deity just getting confused and utterly whiffing everything

[echo leaf]

a confused Yharon flies into his infernadoes and kills himself

[lucid marsh]

That reminds me. Ravager should have a special long distance charge attack instead of despawning when far away

[echo leaf]

make it instantly kill you

instead of just pissing you off and wasting your time

it pisses you off, wastes your time, and wastes your buffs!

[harsh echo]

increases Chance for disappointment

[light birch]

Create a new debuff that makes your parents disappointed in you whenever you die to a boss

[drowsy plank]

why would you need a debuff to do that? you're already playing terraria

[light birch]

They don't know that though

Make them know every time it happens

[harsh echo]

easy star sugg

[hollow verge]

this is just from trying to get abyssal amulet and alluring bait

[hollow verge]

me trying to calm down my horse named star sugg

[echo leaf]

it's very nutritious mush i guess

[wide river]

Is it directly fished or is it a crate thing
I'm genuinely curious I don't bother fishing

[hollow verge]

directly fished

[echo leaf]

It's directly fished

[hollow verge]

it's like at least 50% of all pulls

[echo leaf]

It's a common item that gets obtained in bulk

[hollow verge]

again this was like, maybe 12 mins of work. an average fishing time over the day to try and get the items u actually want from this pool

[wide river]

I don't exactly see the issue with making the early-game economy nonexistent (fishing does a pretty good job of that by itself afaik, crate money is pretty good)
But everything else I agree with

[harsh echo]

fire name

[hollow verge]

considering SSO is trying to fix the economy, it's relevant

[wide river]

I never said it wasn't relevant, I only said I didn't see it as a concern

[grave zinc]

@low cargo - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make primordial wyrm always drop ectoplasm and lumenyl]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@echo kestrel - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Add a Fishing equivalent of the Potion of Omniscience]

It has been reviewed by the devs, and for one reason or another they decided it would be best not to implement it.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@hollow verge - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Add a Post-Moon Lord upgrade to Ambrosial Ampoule]

It has been reviewed by the devs, and for one reason or another they decided it would be best not to implement it.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@novel belfry - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make most mounts actually worth using]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@echo kestrel - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Give Demonshade Armor Immunity to Auric Rejection]

It has been reviewed by the devs, and for one reason or another they decided it would be best not to implement it.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@novel belfry - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make most mounts actually worth using]

It has officially been implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[gray bone]

mount users rejoice

[hollow verge]

sad! (but fair)

[drowsy plank]

that was fast

[distant gyro]

forgot to point out what

one of those is a nerf but shoo

it needed it

[lucid marsh]

Ooh, nice. Does bumbledoge have better vertical speed/acceleration, specifically?

[vocal cedar]

Bumbledoge is gonna passively fire projectiles too

[lucid marsh]

Ooh, nice

[misty lichen]

it already does

[lucid marsh]

I like the silly guy a lot

[misty lichen]

[lucid marsh]

It already does? Huh

[vocal cedar]

Also didn't know
I guess nobody uses it :(

[lucid marsh]

I used it but only occasionally, and mainly for getting places, not fighting

By the time you get it, there's not much it's good for

[vocal cedar]

I was also writing a suggestion to make more Flails spinnable/chargeable, but I just reviewed the Changelogs before writing it and looks like the top 3 contenders are already getting some type of rework, so that hopefully will be it

[grim tusk]

Wait you can go infinitely upwards with bean again?

[vocal cedar]

RIP my cunning ingenuity I guess

[distant gyro]

i dont think so

but you can jump god bean and it will shoot up really high

[distant gyro]

no because that's the point of the item

you're just supposed to move really horizontally fast with it

it's too fat to fly well (canon)

[ripe owl]

Bumbledoge + Wings combo on Providence lives

[vocal cedar]

Except Clam Crusher isn't in said list, but what can ya do. It'd sadly be an SRS if I suggested just for it unfortunately :<

[distant gyro]

clam crusher is not a ball one does not simply spin it around

imagine if you spin ko cannon

or anchor

[ripe owl]

I mean, I guess you could try and spin an anchor

Although at that point you certainly won't be throwing it anymore

[distant gyro]

you can do knife tricks you can do anchor tricks

but yeah still too funny for that item

[vocal cedar]

I guess clam crusher is too big...

Accursed thrown sprite

[ripe owl]

Simply turn it into a ball smh

[vocal cedar]

I mean it's definitely the correct shape for the vanilla swinging animation
It'd just need a bit of scaling down, but I guess that'd make the weapon more impractical overall

[sand marlin]

Crates are fine they don't give a lot of money and they're hard to get

[sand marlin]

OLC invalidates the speed anyway

I'm interested in gaze of crysthamyr actually

A flying mount with vertical control

What do you know maybe optimal yharon arenas will start to use platforms again

[vocal cedar]

It 100% looks like a sizable hitbox increase though

At least from the one time I've used it (Wasn't even against a boss lmao)

[scarlet musk]

i unironically used hexed branch for death mode dog

[echo kestrel]

Oh well

There goes my two suggs

[olive saddle]

it technically a nerf but in reality is a buff. the damn thing is so fuckin uncontrollable for me

[hollow verge]

tbh i think the demonshade one was rejected because (1) it's a suggestion about a dev item and (2) it's To Be Reworked™️ eventually anyway

[hollow shell]

It is absolutely not because of the former

It's pretty likely that it's the latter

[olive saddle]

Demonshades a dev item?

[hollow shell]

Technically yes, although it's one of those very old ones
2016 / early-2017, forum era

[echo leaf]

I heard that’s why it’s so apeshit busted

It was designed and balanced with pre-1.5 clamity in mind

[hollow shell]

I find that to also be unlikely. Seems strange that they'd miss the single armor set in the postgame tier when doing the stat flattening.

But, won't be relevant soon anyway, if the rework is coming soon

[frail fox]

Forum stuff is so funny because you’ll look at a removed weapon and half the time it’ll be like “this was suggested by some guy on the forums”

And yeah at the very least the demonshade devil wasn’t changed in 1.5

[novel belfry]

i know the GSS and his stuff was SUGGESTED

[hollow verge]

demonshade rework save me

[misty lichen]

would you believe me if i said they literally did

it’s minions damage was completely missed in the stat flattening

and was never caught until very recently

[hollow shell]

That's pretty funny.

[drowsy plank]

10k damage red devil moment

[hollow shell]

That means it was dealing about 10x more damage than it was before the flattening, in terms of proportion,
right?

yeah

[drowsy plank]

something like that

also fargos had to stomp this shit out of demonshade in order to balance it as well for the DLC

[echo leaf]

it will always receive at least a 145% damage bonus since that’s how much summon damage demonshade grants

And it’ll always take from the strongest class

[olive saddle]

It actually deals magic damage i think!

Why? Fuck you that's why!! idk

[grave zinc]

@low cargo - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make primordial wyrm always drop ectoplasm and lumenyl]

It has officially been implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[drowsy plank]

cool

[lucid marsh]

Funniest progression break

[low cargo]

YEEEEEEEAH

[median scaffold]

...god

Will Wyrm be added to Low%?

The suggestion was born on my eyes...

[golden sonnet]

no, it won't

you already get ecto from rav, who you need for other stuff

[median scaffold]

Yeah, that's more than fair

Doubt anyone will do Wyrm because it has Lymenyl...

[verbal aspen]

I mean you don't need rav for ashes of cal since you don't fight prov so rav is skippable

Although tbf no one in their right mind would do pw even if it was technically a smaller amount of bosses

[golden sonnet]

no, you need rav for life alloy

[verbal aspen]

Oh right

I forgot you can't get cryonic from shimmer

[golden sonnet]

also then you need to start the debate of if a hidden boss counts as a boss for low%

as it has boss in it's title, but isn't treated the same as other bosses

[median scaffold]

They do. The end of discussion.

[median scaffold]

From what I know, you can skip CalClone to get some better loot with defeating Providence

[golden sonnet]

then it isn't low% anymore

as you are doing extra bosses

[median scaffold]

You exchance CalClone for Providence

Isn't it the same amount of bosses or I forgot something that makes CalClone required....

[verbal aspen]

Guardians are required for prov and they count as a boss

[dense ferry]

Also Cal Clone is required for summoning SCal

[golden sonnet]

what whiteturtle said is the reason

you don't need calclone if you do prov, but prov needs guards

[dense ferry]

It's so sad Low% is fated to die

[golden sonnet]

not really

next patch even preserved it

[dense ferry]

I mean, Ravager being retiered and losing the Geode will inevitably be a huge blow

[golden sonnet]

and removing ravager just replaces itself with cryogen and plantera

[grim tusk]

Thats til Crags update

[median scaffold]

I forgot something, yeah
My bad here

[golden sonnet]

which is +1 boss, but doesn't change much

[grim tusk]

Wait, why is Providence needed?

[dense ferry]

Yeah, but yeah

[golden sonnet]

she isn't

[median scaffold]

Please, can we have Cryogenic bars in the shimmer chain?

[grim tusk]

Cant you get Uelibloom from shimmering Auric

[dense ferry]

Idk

[golden sonnet]

yes you can, they were mistaken about something

[grim tusk]

Cryonic is on thin ice rn

[dense ferry]

I had ideas for making Permafrost able to craft Cryonic Bars if you handed stuff to him

But that doesn't change the fact that Cryogen is required

[echo leaf]

[echo leaf]

providence is only required in wofless iirc

[drowsy plank]

you could just

add cryonic to the shimmer chain

idk why it gets special treatment

[echo leaf]

i dunno why either

cosmilite isn't in there but it isn't mined and it doesn't have an ore

[median scaffold]

Could it be just an oversight from the devs' side?

[drowsy plank]

no idea

[golden sonnet]

Not all ores are in the chain, even in vanilla

So it isn't necessary an oversight

[median scaffold]

Fair enough

...tho, what ores are not in the chain?

I forgot

[golden sonnet]

Meteorite, astral, cryonic, infernal suevite

[verbal aspen]

Hellstone I think aswell

[golden sonnet]

That too yeah

[echo kestrel]

cryonic not being in the shimmer chain wouldn’t be too big of an issue if the ore veins weren’t so damn small

[nimble totem]

Meteorite and Astral ore come from meteors, hellstone and infernal suevite come from hell. Cryonic spawns in the underground and caverns following a boss kill, just like Perennial and Uelibloom

[median scaffold]

Can you get perennial pre-Plantera using shimmer?

[golden sonnet]

depends what you mean by "pre"

as plantera is entirely optional, yes

[median scaffold]

Without killing it*

[golden sonnet]

golem, ravager, astrum deus, and moon lord all grant access to higher tier ores which will shimmer down to it

[median scaffold]

...hm

Cryogenic is still a rather weird exception

[golden sonnet]

I would mostly agree, but it does make sense for it to be excempt as there isn't a clear point in progression it would be

as the mech bosses and the mech "alts" don't have a set order

[median scaffold]

Chlorophyte -> Hallowed -> Cryogenic -> Titanium, etc.

[golden sonnet]

so there isn't a good spot to put the ore in the chain

[golden sonnet]

that would probably be the best solution yeah

[median scaffold]

Maybe that could be a suggestion...?

[novel belfry]

its so funny that people here really want low% to not get harder

[median scaffold]

Ravager will still be required, won't it?

[echo leaf]

I do

I want AEW to be required

[wide river]

Low% players when they get to skip scrumbloginu the annihilator by taking the quasiphysical metawormhole to travel through spacetime to get to endgame immediately

[golden sonnet]

that would legitimately be terrible

[echo leaf]

Yes exactly

[golden sonnet]

also AeW is still a boss

so

it will never be required as you'd just do plant instead

[echo leaf]

I think that’s just how low% players will justify never doing it

[sand marlin]

Doesn't count towards Community false boss...

[echo leaf]

There’s no trophy and it doesn’t boost Community

[sand marlin]

🐌

[golden sonnet]

it's still called a boss

[sand marlin]

You're still called a boss

[glass arch]

yeah so is martian saucer

and aint nobody saying martian saucer is a boss

[golden sonnet]

hell yeah I am

[golden sonnet]

it's an event boss

same with every other event boss

[median scaffold]

Fuck it

You can't kill anything, but required bosses for Low%

[sand marlin]

Event bosses also don't count towards community

[median scaffold]

And some events enemies, ig

[gaunt needle]

489 - Martian saucer is now considered a mandatory boss - Done ✅

[misty lichen]

saucer is specifically coded as a boss and other event bosses are not

[golden sonnet]

isn't betsy too?

[sand marlin]

Oh yeah I kinda remember something weird about that

[gaunt needle]

Betsy (and ogre and dark mage) are real bosses though

[sand marlin]

Maybe not, do all minibosses get vanilla boss bars?

[misty lichen]

betsy even has a treasure bag

[glass arch]

nope

[golden sonnet]

Also

[drowsy plank]

i mean it very much has a clear progression point. regardless of when you fight cryogen, you need to have ada/titanium tier pick to mine it; so it goes exactly where shuki0 said. idk where else it would go and why it isn't there already

[golden sonnet]

put infernal suevite post 1 mech then

pls

don't leave him abandoned

[glass arch]

funny thing about that

[golden sonnet]

still not a boss anymore

[drowsy plank]

i want to make an argument against it bc. exploration good but. you make a fair point

[glass arch]

internally it isnt a boss but everywhere else it is a boss

[drowsy plank]

still not going to include it if i do end up making a suggestion about cryonic tho bc fuck u go mine it everyone has suevite asshole it came free with your fucking brimstone crags

:)

[golden sonnet]

That's fair

where cryonic sucks to find

why is it so scarce

[sand marlin]

Guh so many inconsistencies...

[drowsy plank]

cryonic is also very important to progression which suevite most certainly isn't

it's frankly, barely even an ore

it doesn't even have ore in the name

[golden sonnet]

it's an ore internally

[drowsy plank]

yeah i realized, and it used to be charred ore, but i like the fact that it doesn't really feel like a mainline ore

[golden sonnet]

just like sea prism

[drowsy plank]

cryonic is still called an ore tho it has no excuse

i see

i didnt know that

[golden sonnet]

yeah, exodium, sea prism, and suevite are the only ores without "ore" in the name

oh

and obsidian and technically luminite

[sand marlin]

This is the perfect timing to recall the Flower Boots buff idea

[sand marlin]

Hellstone itself as well

[golden sonnet]

ah fair

oh god what the fuck

I didn't know this

why is this so fucking messy

vanilla wtf

[sand marlin]

[hollow verge]

tbh based sugg

[drowsy plank]

RED CODE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hollow shell]

(Chloro is excluded because it has its own achievement)

[golden sonnet]

other things can grant multiple achievements though

[hollow shell]

Good sugg
No idea why Cryonic is excluded

[hollow shell]

Indeed
I figure it's that the achievement is meant for the Altar ores

Not any other hardmode ore (of which there is only Chloro)

[drowsy plank]

my only assumption is planned reworks for Cryogen's bloated ass weapon pool

i love my three tables of ice weapons all dropped from one boss it is not weird at all smile

[golden sonnet]

that's fair yeah, well besides luminite which is not placed in vanilla

[hollow shell]

I doubt it. It would have been really easy to add to the chain. I don't know why they would exclude it before the rework happens

[crude geode]

On top of endo energy and the pre-hm ice shit it really makes ice over-represented

[drowsy plank]

because it would be weird if it ends up being retiered

ice is not over represented at all

[hollow shell]

Then they could just move it in the chain

[drowsy plank]

ice is still super fucking weak because unsurprisingly cal was scared to add actually evenly spread ice drops because it snorted a kilo of crack and threw three of its 5 ice themed weapon sets onto a single boss

and the other two are just locked behind the same event, which, get this, also is tied into the npc which you get from killing that boss!!!!!!

[hollow shell]

I blame lack of creativity from the devs at the time of Permafrost's addition.
I was devs.
My fault (partly), sorry

[median scaffold]

Thanks, Cog
I love you, Cog

[echo leaf]

^

[drowsy plank]

it's nbd this is mostly a meme, and it is a very well known issue which is being addressed

[median scaffold]

Wall of Bronze would fix the issue, 100%

[misty lichen]

it’s being addressed?

[golden sonnet]

I still think daed armor doesn't need to exist and is too similar to frost

hot take

[echo leaf]

remove frost armor

easy fix

[drowsy plank]

cryogen and permafrost are definitely getting touched up next update bare minimum

[misty lichen]

are we sure

[drowsy plank]

daed, tbf, is being moved to two classes which frost doesn't cover

yes????????????

[misty lichen]

when was this said

[drowsy plank]

i talked to rebecca about this why are you casting so much shade on this

[median scaffold]

Frost and Sand (forgot the name) armors should be post-1 mech and not 2, to be honest

[drowsy plank]

we literally have sprites for the reworked daed set publicly

i also talked about it with angel but her ideas were much more radical (but i liked them a lot)

[golden sonnet]

This does make it a lot better

[median scaffold]

And Daed is getting rework, so I think it would be a nice alternative to Spider at some point...?

[sand marlin]

👁️

Oh wait

Nevermind

[drowsy plank]

not cryo set i meant the daed armor

https://tenor.com/view/ehe-anime-gif-anime-girl-teehee-gif-27178660

[wide river]

A couple bits of the Cryonic kit also had sprites shown like
A year ago at this point

[drowsy plank]

it would be very goofy if they reworked exactly the armor and touched nothing else

[wide river]

Daedalus Golem Staff's the big one I remember

[drowsy plank]

oh true i faintly remember that

[sand marlin]

I thought Daedalus armor resprite was shown like super long ago and I never got a gist of whether it was completed or not and certainly nothing about when it'd ever be put in

[wide river]

I think I heard it'd be redone eventually

The sprites that is

[sand marlin]

That'd make sense Ig

Hopefully it makes it in with the arsenal t1 armor for more armorage....

[drowsy plank]

it was mentioned that cal would start from preHM and work its way up and im pretty sure we know the aerialite tier stuff is done, i can't imagine statigel took that long, and after that is daed, so id imagine it's prolly been handled at this point

especially considering there was some light work on perennial stuff happening last i heard?

[sand marlin]

Wait if it's going in order

And we haven't heard of Aerospec logs yet

[drowsy plank]

tbf not everything goes in logs

[sand marlin]

Well no I mean if it's going to be next update surely it'd be logged eventually

[drowsy plank]

well yeah eventually but much like uh
what was it? the last really big one, there was some stuff that was only logged like the day of the update or just before it or something

[sand marlin]

Guh...

[grave zinc]

@hollow verge - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make Vernal Soil spawn Jungle Enemies]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[crude geode]

Yeah changelogs is not extensive

[sand marlin]

It's just hard to imagine skipping right to daedalus before even aerospec is shown

[misty lichen]

and we’ve assumed statigel is done too

[hollow verge]

theyve done this twice now

i get the feeling they think it's a good idea

[golden sonnet]

Hmmm, maybe not

they do say 3rd times the charm

[olive saddle]

I feel like the cryonic ore thing has already been rejected but I could be a stupid dumb idiot wearing stupid dumb idiot pants

[drowsy plank]

there was one 6 months ago but it's reasoning kind of sucked

[golden sonnet]

wtf

[drowsy plank]

it goes on a pretty long tangent about ravager for some reason

[wide river]

(This one, to be clear #suggestions-voting message )

[golden sonnet]

yeah, i realize now

thought you were talking about mine at first lmao

was bouta throw hands

[drowsy plank]

lo

your's is even older than that one, and yeah the last one did manage to get rejected

[hollow shell]

#suggestions-voting message
la raesh sugg

Didn't get delivered

[hollow shell]

yeeaah

Weird sugg

that old one

[lucid marsh]

Cryonic ore is weird

Really all the ones used in bars of life are weird

Feels shoehorned in

[hollow shell]

Funnily enough they were part of the original release of Calamity, 1.0
So you could say they are as far from shoehorned in as they could possibly be, they're fundamental to Calamity's identity

.. At least, its identity on release. Not necessarily the identity it eventually ended up with today.

(I wonder if any lines of code in the files of their items somehow persisted basically unchanged from 2016 until now
Or rather, how many lines of code)

[lucid marsh]

I see the reasoning, but I think that if you consider gameplay instead of identity, they aren't really made with the thought of "is this fun" in mind

They exist just to be a thing to do, not necessarily a better thing to do

I think they'll be better later on, but also lose their identity

Like perennial, making it tree bark sounds neat, and is better on its own, but now it's not a metal bar

(also perennial is also just really stupid considering the existence of chloropyte as I've said before)

[hollow shell]

indeed Fab probably wasn't thinking of game design and what would benefit the gameplay experience when he first made Calamity
He was just havin fun, implementing what he felt like with the tools and skills that he had

As such they're a bit outdated now, to say the least. Without purpose. Cuz they didn't really have a purpose to begin with, aside from being content.

[hollow shell]

(doesn't Uelibloom already have the tree bark theming? Or natural wood at least)

[frozen hornet]

Uelibloom will be exploded

Also it's smth smth perennial bark + jewel of life

[novel belfry]

would it be okay if the Uelibloom furniture set and associated items stay in spite of Uelibloom's Supernova fusion into Profaned Ore?

[frozen hornet]

It could be sent to calval or something

[wide river]

It will return in hit Calamity addon "Re-add Uelibloom items" coming 2047

[lucid marsh]

I wish people liked the idea of replacing everything perennial does with chlorophyte more

because I really think its the best option

[serene tendon]

Fr

Wasn't there an idea floating around at one point about Perennial becoming a cactus-themed desert ore?

[hollow shell]

That sounds vaguely familiar

[wide river]

Indeed... god that suggestion of mine is nearing two years old now

(Well, "mine", I say when I'm fairly sure Cog was the one who actually wrote the suggestion, I just was the messenger to post it)

[idle dagger]

I think I'm going to suggest magiluminescence into Statis' line, but I need to give good reasoning that isn't just balance related

[hollow shell]

I mean it fits the identity
The Ninja acc line is largely about maneuverability

And Statis's Ninja Belt has Frog Leg providing vertical acceleration
Magi would provide horizontal acceleration (and deceleration)

[golden sonnet]

kinda getting into balancing, but you could mention magi only doing something on the ground, so it wouldn't affect the balance in the air but would help add more alternatives for boots

[grim tusk]

I would have said Animus, if it wasnt deleted

Altho that was not in 1.0 wasnt it?

[hollow shell]

Animus the sword was added in the 1.1.4's, apparently

Its predecessor Blade of Enmity was added in 1.0, actually

[grim tusk]

And that was also deleted

[hollow shell]

indeed

[lucid marsh]

oh hey a dev is here

what do you think about having two plant themed ores a single tier apart from each other

I think perennial should just be replaced with chlorophyte

[hollow shell]

(idk how much Shade works in that realm of game design)

[lucid marsh]

fair

[frozen hornet]

It would be better to ask tringle

[lucid marsh]

uh

who

[hollow shell]

Triangle

tris tringle, tather thristmas

[lucid marsh]

it's not tringle_

[frozen hornet]

🔺

Triangle has plans for perennial you can ask him about it probably

[grim tusk]

A mistake

Altho we have plans to make perenial more interesting (probably tiershift it as well lol)

[grim tusk]

I do mostly gear and sometimes involve myself with world gen and more general stuff.

Do not ask me about lore, thx

[frail fox]

Rogue lore

[royal tapir]

Rogue lore is crazy

[idle dagger]

Yeah that definitely works for it
The idea that Statis' Ninja Belt is the 'ultimate ground based accessory'

[lucid marsh]

that would be better, though I still think my chlorophyte idea is also good

[fossil finch]

Calamity needs 76 more plant ore

[grim tusk]

500 plant ores

[hollow shell]

We must have more

[drowsy plank]

THAT WAS MINE YEAH :D

i still think cactus perrenial is peak + ties into GSS

[frail fox]

GSS relevance wtf….

[hollow shell]

It's true that there is not Underground Desert content after Plantera...

[idle dagger]

I think even in base Terraria, Red has stated the underground desert is something he wanted to touch upon

[coral carbon]

administer more plant ore

[idle dagger]

I have a feeling something may come of that in 1.4.5

[hollow shell]

How long ago
Cuz it got plenty expanded in like, multiple major updates

[idle dagger]

June

[hollow shell]

I see

iunno, I kinda feel like Desert has enough now
I guess if it's just changes and not new content additions it'd be fine

[frail fox]

Desert about to be the most packed thing ever post-SSO and 1.4.5

[coral carbon]

i feel like vanilla desert is fine tbh

[drowsy plank]

this sounds nice tbh, mostly so desert prowler has more of a reason to exist lol

[idle dagger]

I feel like I never go to the underground desert in hardmode at all

in vanilla

[drowsy plank]

yeah

[idle dagger]

like there's enemies there but, to what end

[drowsy plank]

fossil is also the only armor listed for pre-BoC/EoW rn anyway so

[frail fox]

Basilisk mount!

[hollow shell]

Vanity...

And a pretty valid place to get Souls of Night and Cursed Flames/Ichor, if evil spreads into it

[drowsy plank]

and dark/light shards i guess

[frozen hornet]

Dark sharts

[frail fox]

Spirit Lamp is good

[frozen hornet]

for the 173 onyx blaster fans

[hollow shell]

I legit forgot those items existed for a short moment. But yes those

Onyx Blaster and Sky Fracture are poggers

[hollow shell]

That too

There's stuff!

[idle dagger]

tbf I haven't had to leave the surface for the shards

[frail fox]

Go underground to kill big scorpions for no reason

[grim tusk]

"Where's the 1.4.5 desert" - Players
"I ate it" - Sunken Sea

[lucid marsh]

Why are people saying the desert is fine? It's completely useless in Hardmode besides a single set of weapons

Oh wait I guess there's sand shark and elemental

Ok, underground desert is useless beyond the beginning of the game

[hollow shell]

The issue being that the Hardmode UG Desert doesn't have unique purpose?
Because anything you can obtain there can also be obtained on the surface Desert or in other Underground biomes? (with the exception of a few vanity items and a handful of weapons)

Cuz you can do stuff in the HM UG Desert. It's a place where you can farm Hardmode evil materials and Light/Dark Shards

[crude geode]

Giving every single biome something unique is kinda difficult

[hollow shell]

As well as the standards for what makes that unique content "worth it"

[crude geode]

A lot of people will say Truffle is not worth the hassle of fishing in a underground evil ice biome

[lucid marsh]

Look at the underground tundra. The enemies have unique weapon and accessory drops, like 5 of them

The underground desert has exactly zero uses in Hardmode except for a handful of things you can do on the surface

[hollow shell]

If Basilisk mount was a game changer in the way, iunno, Onyx Drill is
then people would probably say that the whole biome is fine

[frozen hornet]

what does surface tundra have

afiak it has like

[crude geode]

Uhhhhh ice golem :)

[frozen hornet]

Ice golem

[lucid marsh]

And like maybe basilisk mount I guess

[crude geode]

Surface tundra and underground desert are united in that fact that they are outclassed by their alternative

[frozen hornet]

honestly I think that's fine

[lucid marsh]

Underground tundra also has an entire ore and a crafting material in calamity

[frozen hornet]

Not everything needs to have stuff

[hollow shell]

((If you count the Sunken Sea as part of the Desert then the Desert actually has a crazy amount of added content, including required progression to fight Draedon
But many would hesitate to do so because it's distinctly separated as its own biome, despite its proximity and theming))

[lucid marsh]

I disagree. If it doesn't have anything to do, then why does it exist?

[frozen hornet]

Underground desert will get at least a little bit of stuff when SSO comes

[lucid marsh]

Oh yeah actually sunken sea is neat in Hardmode. Needs a little more though.

Makes sense

It would be awesome if calamity became like official dlc

[hollow shell]

God please don't do that

[crude geode]

Yeah let’s not

[frozen hornet]

I'm sorry are you just gonna explode surface tundra in hardmode just because it doesn't have relevant content?

Like

You can't remove it

[crude geode]

Probably because it has another point in progression where it matters

Not every biome is relevant in every stage of the game

[frozen hornet]

Yeah

[lucid marsh]

It does actually have content. It has ice golem (frost armor by extension), the amarok, the ice feather, and cryogen

And the blizzard, which has rainbow slime

[frozen hornet]

Well true

[lucid marsh]

Put essence of sunlight and/or chaos in the desert

[frozen hornet]

My point is asking "why does it exist" is really silly because it was already there

You can't unexist it

[hollow shell]

ah yes so much more valuable than the sun & moon masks and djinn's curse

[lucid marsh]

Hardmode desert has equivalents to those on the surface but none underground

[hollow shell]

and unique to the biome too

[crude geode]

A slime, what a novel concept

[lucid marsh]

I was being a little funny about the slime

But yeah, it has something

[hollow shell]

.. Can you fight Cryo in the underground ice?

[lucid marsh]

Whereas underground desert has nothing except I guess one weapon (lamp)

Probably?

[crude geode]

Should be able to

[lucid marsh]

But you shouldn't

Just a bad idea

[hollow shell]

Yeah looks like it based on the wiki

snow or ice biome (ice meaning ug snow)

[crude geode]

People just don’t bc making arenas underground isn’t usually what they do

[hollow shell]

So technically Cryo isn't unique content to the surface snow

[idle dagger]

Out of all the things I’m surprised that isn’t in vanilla, it’s that there’s no boss for ‘the underground’
Like the bogstandard stone galore

It makes up the most % of the map, I’d say?

[drowsy plank]

move cryo exclusively to underground ice and give him a unique structure

deer is now the surface ice boss and cryo is the underground ice; this will cause 0 issues

[idle dagger]

Like a giant spider or something is what I expected vanilla to add at some point many years ago

[hollow shell]

For some reason I feel like that's fitting
Just for what the normal underground/cavern is

[drowsy plank]

actually the more i think about it the more this actually makes. a lot of sense??

like with the cryo key summon and everything

like

[hollow shell]

urgh

[crude geode]

Skeletons are the boss in underground/cavern

[drowsy plank]

why is a magical ice prison flying around killing things

[lucid marsh]

...permafrost's ice castle being underground would be pretty cool

[idle dagger]

Yeah that also makes sense tbh
As the most highly explored area it’s filled to the absolute brim with just monsters and mining

[errant wren]

i feel like i'm missing most of the context of this conversation

[idle dagger]

…how long has permafrost been trapped in there now that I think about it

I guess that’s more of a question for lore channel though

[errant wren]

as far as i remember, since at least a week ago

[crude geode]

So true

[frail fox]

They just do that

[crude geode]

I think magical ice prisons tend to not conform to logic and reason

[hollow shell]

uhhhh fleshing out biomes at certain progression points
Namely the Underground Desert in hardmode

Surface Snow in hardmode was brought up as a point of comparison

[errant wren]

magical ice prisons have... cold attitudes

i'll see myself out

that was bad

[crude geode]

[errant wren]

on so many degrees

[frozen hornet]

true

4/10

[drowsy plank]

i love how essence of eleum was clearly supposed to get you to explore the underground snow biome but due to it have so little other content people got frost legion to drop them and now everyone just does frost legion instead because it's just faster and easier

[hollow shell]

You could say it was in the negative degrees
Below freezing, even.

People do Frost Legion instead of snow biome farming???????

[errant wren]

what a cold audience

ok i'll stop now

[wide river]

You're on thin ice

[coral carbon]

i have never heard of this before

[crude geode]

We are living in 2024 Rover, we are ancient individuals atp

[drowsy plank]

that's what every playthrough ive done since the change was implemented have done; the ice biome just kind of sucks and there's nothing to get there. it's so much easier to just do that and use zerg

[errant wren]

wait the frost legion drops eleum?

[drowsy plank]

yes this is why their summon is craftable

otherwise it would be pointless

[coral carbon]

frost legion is never pointless

you need them to get santa

[hollow shell]

How recently was eleum given to them
iirc the summon has been craftable for ages

[crude geode]

Yeah summon was definitely before their use case came up

[errant wren]

i just thought cal players liked frost legion that much

[drowsy plank]

idk, i think it was a couple updates ago

like 2.0.1 or something

we're on 2.0.3 rn, right?

[hollow shell]

2.0.4.

[drowsy plank]

close enough

[crude geode]

Also I like how this disregards the whole ass summoner weapon they add into the tundra

[lucid marsh]

Permafrost's sealed castle, impenetrable to any ordinary pickaxe. A powerful frost magic eminates from the block of ice covering the door. What will happen when you use the key you found?

[drowsy plank]

ancient ice chunk is not real i do not see it

also that's all of

One Item For One Class

lmao

and also ice claspers still assault you on the surface so like???

[crude geode]

Ice Mimics exist but also that’s vanilla so people don’t care

[drowsy plank]

you dont even need to explore it to get them

[lucid marsh]

ice clasper minion is useful for multiclass, I use it in every playthrough

[hollow shell]

Okay it was in the 2.0.3.001 update

[drowsy plank]

maybe back when frostbrand and frost staff were SS tier but definetly not anymore

[lucid marsh]

frost legion should be canon

permafrost's funny servant golems that went rogue and made the ice mafia without their master

[hollow shell]

Ice Mimics are such a letdown compared to non-Ice mimics
Regular mimics drop so many game changing items and ice mimics just get weapons

[crude geode]

Yeah

[drowsy plank]

lol that reminds me of the time i made concept art for the suggestion someone made that some inexperienced mage found one of permafrost's arifacts and that's why the frost legion exists

[hollow shell]

awh

[lucid marsh]

I love it

should be canon

[crude geode]

I like the ice mimics but yeah it’s a lot less significant than say Philo Stone

[errant wren]

let's just make ice mimics mandatory for progression

[crude geode]

True

[errant wren]

surely nothing can go wrong

[coral carbon]

slander

ice mimics have a pet

regular mimics dont

[lucid marsh]

ice mimics drop the cryo key :3

[coral carbon]

checkmate

[crude geode]

Put their drops in the major crafting trees

[frozen hornet]

Miracle matter now requires 3 frostbrands

[errant wren]

exo weapons now require their drops

[hollow shell]

... Hmmm

Cryogen does drop three whole accessories
Could one or two of them get moved to Ice Mimics?

[lucid marsh]

yes

[crude geode]

Absolutely

[errant wren]

i would say that works

[crude geode]

Fuck Cryogen’s massive drop pool

and by proxy his shop and ore

[frozen hornet]

What's the 3

Soul of cryogen
Cryo stone

[hollow shell]

Cryo Stone, Frost Flare, Soul of Cryogen

[lucid marsh]

https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Frost_Flare

[frozen hornet]

Oh frost flare can definitely be moved to mimic

[lucid marsh]

this one makes the most sense

yeah

ooh wait

[errant wren]

let's move soul of cryogen

[hollow shell]

Cryo Stone should stay on Cryo because it gives you the rotating shield, that's iconic
But Frost Flare could very easily get moved to Ice mimics
And even Soul of Cryogen could get moved if it gets renamed

[frozen hornet]

You have
frostbrand
frost staff
frost flare

[lucid marsh]

moving frost flare to the mimic also makes it available for your first cryogen fight, which is very useful

[hollow shell]

(Frost Staff isn't Ice Mimics)

[frozen hornet]

Someone lied to me

[frail fox]

Frostbrand added to Terra Blade

[hollow shell]

(they got the frost fire flower)

[frozen hornet]

ah

[hollow shell]

ye ye, those immunities and cold resistances

[frozen hornet]

well still frosty

I feel like it'd turn out like abaddon

You'd use it for cryogen and nothing else

[hollow shell]

Hey it's better than using it for nothing

[frozen hornet]

true

[frail fox]

Frost barrier is also an accessory that exists btw

[hollow shell]

If an item's purpose is being the counter to a specific boss, that's a purpose.

[frozen hornet]

my favourite

ice item
sold by traveling merchant of all things

[hollow shell]

Not anymore

[frail fox]

Thankfully

[frozen hornet]

They changed it?

[hollow shell]

Debating whether it'd be better as an Ice Mimic drop
Ice Claspers are fun enough enemies to fight

They do have Ancient Ice Chunk for summoners but that's just for summoners

[frozen hornet]

Add more for other classes

[lucid marsh]

you could also use it for... frost golem

[frozen hornet]

Ancient ice blade
Ancient ice bow
Ancient ice staff
Ancient ice boomerang

[crude geode]

ancient ice

[hollow shell]

Two of those four are already ice mimic drops

[lucid marsh]

hey, ancient ice chunk is the best(?) multiclass minion at the start of hardmode tier

[frail fox]

Also maybe some of the cryo drops/perma shop/cryo ore could be moved to something

[hollow shell]

(and one is, what, Ice Merman?)

[frail fox]

since yeah

[hollow shell]

I did originally think that Perma's shop stuff could get moved to Ice Mimic but he is just all weapons except for Permafrost's Concoction and that's the best thing Perma has.

[wide river]

Sounds like we got ourselves a new crafting material

[hollow shell]

And adding more weapons to Ice Mimics is not the solution

[frail fox]

No way it’s the ice desert fossil equivalent

[hollow shell]

Frost Cores exist

[frozen hornet]

That's the forbidden frag equivalent

Doesn't count iirc...

[hollow shell]

Oh right I misread

[lucid marsh]

now hold on, we have cryonic ore

[hollow shell]

("Ancient Ice" really does go hand in hand with "Desert Fossil" tho)

[lucid marsh]

honestly just make cryonic ore and ancient ice the same thing

[frail fox]

Not mimics but just idk a funny ancient ice thing

[hollow shell]

Anyway before we get off track
Generally seemed like we all thought moving Frost Flare to Ice Mimics was a good idea

Does anyone wanna just suggest that

[lucid marsh]

I can do it, but I think the fact that my suggestions never get in is evidence that I'm bad at writing them

[wide river]

Give me a few minutes, I'll have a suggestion written for you

[hollow shell]

👍

[hollow shell]

(You're the one who pointed out the Cryogen use case though, I wasn't even thinking of that)

[drowsy plank]

honestly there's a non-zero chance a large swathe of cryo's stuff just dies outright but we'll see when we get there i spose

[lucid marsh]

I only got it from the wiki

[drowsy plank]

also ice mimics dropping cryo key is hilarious and honestly i wouldn't even be completely opposed to it but also newbies would literally never find that

spose it aint much worse than current cryo key tho

tfw craftable summon only boss

[frail fox]

A couple of those

[lucid marsh]

make it both

[drowsy plank]

at least two

[lucid marsh]

craftable or a drop

[coral carbon]

reminds me of how you can buy ancient ice for like 400 dollars and its literally just fucking water

like yeah its old

[median scaffold]

Another recipe should be added instead

[coral carbon]

but its just water

[drowsy plank]

as long as we aren't stupid and try to prevent it from being shimmerable im down for it

[golden sonnet]

the ice chest (ice mimic) drops an ice key, which summons a boss, which drops an ice key, which opens an ice chest

[drowsy plank]

PEAK!

think about how great of a trivia bullet point that would make on the wiki

[hollow shell]

God damn it, I'm pre-emptively annoyed because I can already anticipate what's going to happen

"We'd rather remove Frost Flare than move it to a new source like this, it'd be weird to change it before we get rid of it."
[Frost Flare stays in Cryogen's loot pool for another year or more cuz they never commit to actually removing it.]

[lucid marsh]

anyways, I find it weird that people more readily consider removing things like cryogen's drops, but refuse to consider less interesting things like perennial

[drowsy plank]

YEAH

ldkpfgjvml;dcxkbcfg

[lucid marsh]

god

I can totally see that

[drowsy plank]

im telling you

[lucid marsh]

stupid devs

[drowsy plank]

cactus perrenial was the solution

[lucid marsh]

they always do shit like this

[drowsy plank]

they just didn't understand my genius

[hollow shell]

(hopefully a facetious statement)

[drowsy plank]

probably yes

[lucid marsh]

it is an exaggeration, but I do think they make countless bad decisions

[drowsy plank]

side effect of 40+ person dev team

stuff moves slow

except when it doesn't

[hollow shell]

Calamity is a huge mod, there are an unending sea of problems that could be solved, and they can't solve all of them at once

One random forgettable item is going to fall by the wayside in the face of more pressing concerns and larger update focuses

[frozen hornet]

Perennial is getting removed though, with the exception of reaver armor

[drowsy plank]

damn we should make that fuckin "graaaaaaaaah too many problems must fix all of them NOW!" message a sticker

i can never remember it but it comes up so often

[lucid marsh]

see, I totally agree, but I'm talking about the problems that arise as a result of deliberate bad decisions, instead of just a lack of time

[golden sonnet]

isn't this just frost barrier