suggestions-discussion

[median scaffold]

Was because of the infinite stealth strikes bug

[vocal cedar]

Byea Infernum Dev-Wishes are different from normal achievements I think

Fundamentally I mean, they're more like specific quests than just progression rewards

[novel belfry]

Brimstone Crescent Staff my beloved

[drowsy plank]

im just thinking like

if that's possible

maybe some calamity achivements could be used to better guide the player through progression

[vocal cedar]

That'd be good. Especially one about building a Codebreaker after Evil Boss 2

Between the "Defeat the Hive Mind/Perforator Hive" achievement and the Queen Bee one

[echo leaf]

Achievements about the Codebreaker will help solve a lot of the issues about it

Notably:
Players don’t realize it exists/blueprints exist/factories exist/chargers exist
Players don’t build it until post-Yharon and whine about needing to do so much crafting
Players don’t place factories until post-Yharon and whine about needing to wait for power cells

[grim tusk]

@uncut zealot we literally cant, blame tmod

The only sort of way would be doing extensive IL editing like Infernum does

[sand marlin]

The alternative is making your own system which is uhh yeah that

Maybe not that but I thought it was that

[lucid marsh]

I think it honestly might be a bigger problem that the entire arsenal and lab part of the game is kind of pointless up until exo mechs

The only thing you get by engaging with that stuff is a handful of weapons that are a hassle to use, and some lore

[ripe owl]

The promised neverland of modded achievements...

I swear to god, there were plans like a year or so ago to add modded achievements support to tML

[uncut zealot]

GAHHH

[grim tusk]

2 years ago?

[ripe owl]

Well isn't that lovely

[crude geode]

I do think it’s current implementation needs work but the concept of actually working things up to Draedon provides nice setup instead of just here is this random mech fight

[lucid marsh]

This is true. Maybe... The regular mech bosses could require stuff from the codebreaker?

Or it could provide an alternative way to summon them

[hollow shell]

#suggestions-posting message
I am personally leaning more towards boosting the speed later in the game
Cuz the people who are prepared are already swimming in batteries

(I just entered Hardmode and I must have over 10,000 batteries from only 4 factories)

There could be a craftable upgrade to the factories. That'd be more natural.

[ripe owl]

That's exactly what I suggest

[hollow shell]

ye and I agree

I do think adding more important usages for batteries or charge earlier in the game would help as well
Like making the Abombination be crafted with batteries or require just a bit of charge to be used
(and/or the Astral Chunk)

That way the player isn't stopped in progression if they haven't invested in factories yet, cuz they're optional bosses
but it'd spur them to get started on factory production, much earlier than Exos

cuz atm all the lab charge stuff is very self-contained

[harsh echo]

Sounds like a nice way to integrate it into natural progression

[lucid marsh]

I think it would realistically be better to just remove the batteries from the game entirely

[harsh echo]

I feel like that has been denied?

[lucid marsh]

Make charging things free in the charging station

It has, and I think the developers are making the wrong decision because they are too attached to a badly designed idea

[harsh echo]

Honestly, I don’t like waiting for any “energy” system

Did the devs give a reason for not removing charge?

[hollow shell]

It's kinda the thing that the lab weapons have going for them
Otherwise they are just.. normal weapons

[lucid marsh]

I think they'd be strictly better as normal weapons. Just because a mechanic can be added, doesn't mean it makes the game better

If you wanted a middle ground, you could just remove the power cell items and factories, and have the chargers charge weapons for free

And remove any power cell requirement from the codebreaker

This would be more enjoyable I think

[harsh echo]

I concur

[errant wren]

batteries? i wish they were consumable for the funnies

or well i guess the power cells

[olive saddle]

let me eat the battery and lose 1 max health and we're chillin

[harsh echo]

[crude geode]

the second part I agree with, but the first I heavily disagree

the codebreaker weapons aren't very original

[errant wren]

consuming power cells reduces cooldowns because they give energy

[harsh echo]

Aren’t they getting reworked?

[crude geode]

that's every weapon in existence not made in the past year

tbfh

[wide river]

True

[olive saddle]

real

[lucid marsh]

What's better: a weapon that's unoriginal but normal, or a weapon that's unoriginal except for an extra mechanic that makes it less fun

[crude geode]

I didn't say it had to be kept

I'd rather they be removed then turned into boring, unoriginal weapons that need a rework like half the mod

[harsh echo]

ouch!

[lucid marsh]

I agree

The rust and dust update was a mistake

[harsh echo]

What did that add

[lucid marsh]

The arsenal weapons and Draedon labs

[crude geode]

everything related to draedon, basically

[lucid marsh]

And I think the exo mechs

[wide river]

Exos came in 1.5

[lucid marsh]

I can't remember all the details

[slim cairn]

"Added Desert Prowler armor, Plaguebringer armor, Prismatic armor, and Titan Heart armor"
Kills you

It wasnt solely draedon stuff form what im reading

[crude geode]

it wasn't, but that was the major focus

[lucid marsh]

That's fair. It wasn't literally the entire update

[slim cairn]

Yeah but saying the whole update was a mistake sounds

[lucid marsh]

But I do think a majority of the Draedon related content in the mod makes the mod worse by being there

[slim cairn]

Shitty

[crude geode]

it does

[lucid marsh]

Or at least doesn't add much

[slim cairn]

Imo

[echo kestrel]

good lord it’s been almost two days? since a post got into voting

[harsh echo]

[crude geode]

Rust and Dust was where Calamity got more experimental with things imo, and it's why we have things like ark rework and hardmode progression rework

to say experimenting with things is a mistake is just backwards and stifling

[slim cairn]

Yeah if it hadnt existed i dont think calamity would have been better

[lucid marsh]

That's reasonable, my statement was too extreme

[slim cairn]

Idk i like the labs and lab critters at least

And the exo mech stuff is superb personally

[novel belfry]

just make it a mana-esque mechanic where charge just builds up over time when not using the arsenal weapon, and make the arsenal weapons decently stronger than usual

[lucid marsh]

I think the hardmode progression and ark line were good

[novel belfry]

thats how i'd do it

[lucid marsh]

I like the labs but not any of the resources you get from them, and I don't enjoy the exo mechs as a boss fight

[harsh echo]

cook

[wide river]

The solution to a mechanic with poor execution is not to replace it with a different mechanic with poor execution

[lucid marsh]

This was unfortunately rejected multiple times

[slim cairn]

Fair, the exo mechs are a bit hit or miss

[novel belfry]

eguh

[lucid marsh]

That would be a better execution, despite still being not that great. That's how low the bar is.

[novel belfry]

it hasnt even been tested

and besides im bad at communicating

[harsh echo]

i think the solution here is to stop playing calamity

[wide river]

True

[novel belfry]

highly needed for me

[lucid marsh]

Changes to the charge mechanic have been suggested so many times that the devs, stubborn as they are, decided to ban any suggestions about them instead of listening to what the people want

Or at least, the most common one was banned

[slim cairn]

What was the most common

[crude geode]

charge pack

[lucid marsh]

Portable charger

[crude geode]

some way of automatically charging the weapons

[lucid marsh]

Hmm. About the current suggestion for making the factories work faster, I think that's better than what we have now, but not as good as just removing power cells

@ripe owl what do you think about that?

[ripe owl]

???

[lucid marsh]

Sorry, I should clarify

I think your suggestion is good but an even better one would be to remove power cell factories and power cells, and make the charger and decoder free

I was wondering what you think about that idea

[ripe owl]

That'd be

Not beneficial

[lucid marsh]

I don't think the existence of the power cell factories adds anything to the mod being enjoyable

And that it just isn't a fun mechanic

[ripe owl]

Certainly not the best idea tbh, don't think devs are ever gonna remove the power cells

Unfortunately

We could come to some compromise though, hence why the increased production

[lucid marsh]

I get that

I wish the devs were better at recognizing what makes the game fun, instead of just what systems they can build

I know the devs will never remove power cells, but I think it's for that reason

[full needle]

Possibly unlikely idea: Mega Man related weapon of sorts (X-Buster related(?) calamity has a lot of really cool swords) Maybe vanity or genuine use armor set (Possiblu Zero or similar related)

[crude geode]

likely impossible

[full needle]

Maybe yea but fun thought

[crude geode]

it really doesn't come across that way

[ripe owl]

Sorry but specific items and references for references are not getting through to the voting

Those are the rules

[lucid marsh]

I express my frustration and desire for what I think things should be despite knowing they won't happen

[drowsy plank]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3204747531

seriously if ur item is just a reference just... look for one on the steam workshop urself lmfao

[full needle]

Oh damn

Lmao mb I haven't touched the game in a bit

[echo kestrel]

honestly i want them to do more with it

like upgrading the factory or the recharging station

so we could have a system where like we overcharge stuff and it becomes stronger

[drowsy plank]

congratulations! that is still just charge

[lucid marsh]

That's the same as just scaling up the effects of charge

[echo kestrel]

exactly!

whaoo feature bloat!

[novel belfry]

devs just need to actually get to fixing the Charge issue

clearly that experiment didnt work

[lucid marsh]

Anyways, maybe it would make sense for the arsenal weapons to be balanced around their empty charge power level, and then have the extra charge be a short term bonus?

[novel belfry]

just make them all fucking Switch Axes from Monster Hunter, have them build up charge to expend upon activating a second mode or something

(this totally has nothing to do with me playing the mhwilds beta)

[lucid marsh]

Ohhh nooooo, we can't possibly have a good mechanic like that, we'd have to get rid of the power cell charger then!

[novel belfry]

potionjs

power cell potion

[odd geyser]

mon ster huner

[frail fox]

Save this for the stealth rework….

[echo kestrel]

TRUE MELEE GUN LANCE

that is logically the next step for post-ML jousting lances

now it rips apart bosses….but it’s a hellborne TOO!

[odd geyser]

gunlance would go hard

[lucid marsh]

Bayonets in general are a good idea

[misty lichen]

really this wouldn’t help anything

the power would just be shifted in their favor slightly

i don’t think it’s impossible to make the charge mechanic good

but it is very hard

[echo leaf]

The charge could potentially fill over time by doing something related to the weapon

Like Gauss Dagger could get charge by repeatedly landing true melee strikes which depletes quickly

[misty lichen]

maybe?

most of them are fairly gimmicky so that could work, a resource like ammo that you can only get by doing something specific with the weapon

or charge slowly while not in combat i guess but ideally most of it coming from fighting enemies and being self sustaining

[echo leaf]

I did suggest a while ago that maximum charge be reduced and the weapons buffed to compensate, so they burn out quickly

But it had the issue of players being able to just use multiple to maintain that increased power level

[misty lichen]

yeah when you do that you get old gatling laser

[hollow shell]

you are the only one who is truly cooking

Well, actually, not exactly
I'm thinking more so the point that

"Mana doesn't work as a system!"
"Charge doesn't work as a system!"
"Stealth needs to be reworked!"
"Melee needs to be redesigned!"
"X doesn't work"
"X is not optimal"
"X is not fun"

Terraria is the 7th best selling video game of all time

Calamity is the #1 most popular mod for Terraria

Clearly they are already doing something right

And maybe all of these perfectionist hyperoptimizations don't really matter

[dense ferry]

Why are you acting like we prohibited that due to not wanting to changing it?

We prohibited Suggs to changing Charge because literally everyone knows it sucks

[lucid marsh]

I assumed it was the case but now I realize I didn't know that

[dense ferry]

Making more Suggs does not change the outcome. We know it's a poorly implemented mechanic

But we are going to change it when we feel like is best

[lucid marsh]

I see. I assumed this was not the case

I should really try to make myself stop assuming the worst

[dense ferry]

And yes, this is my feelings on this

Mana being the exception. I do think Mana is a stupidly flawed mechanic and it holds back Mage from being a truly interesting Class

[lucid marsh]

Interesting, do you mean mana as a whole, or mana potions?

[hollow shell]

That sounds like a Frequently Suggested Suggestions situation to me
Which funnily enough currently has two points dedicated to charge

[dense ferry]

Yup!

[hollow shell]

Should I edit this to be more about charge as a whole, somehow?

[dense ferry]

All of it

[dense ferry]

If you want to, I think it's unnecessary

[dense ferry]

Mage builds even in Vanilla boil down to Mana Flower and that's it

[lucid marsh]

I see. I personally think vanilla mage is a blast, that is, if you ban yourself from using mana potions

The mana cloak is awesome

[dense ferry]

I unironically think that 90% of the problem with Mage is the existence of Mana Flower

[lucid marsh]

I agree

I've suggested that calamity remove mana flower from the mage accessory lines

A while ago

[hollow shell]

I find this to be an incredibly funny statement to make after agreeing with my point

[dense ferry]

Mana Flower might be unironically the single Vanilla Accessory we will just entirely rework

Because it's just

It's the equivalent of giving you infinite ammo in DOOM Eternal

[lucid marsh]

god I REALLY hope so

[dense ferry]

It's the equivalent of having no Hard Damage in ULTRAKILL

[hollow shell]

I'm doing mage PT and I don't use Mana Flower :<

[dense ferry]

It's the equivalent of making Judgement Cut always available in DMC 5

[hollow shell]

Rather I'm using Wulfrum Prosthesis WAY out of its tier solely for the right click accelerating mana regen

[lucid marsh]

Oh yeah, it might be a good idea to put something in the frequently suggested notes about how they may consider these things on their own, it's just that they don't want outside suggestions

[dense ferry]

It's just that I don't consider Mana being flawed a "hyperoptimization"

Our development cycle of Mage weapons has been halted exactly due to lack of motivation

No one wants to make Mage weapons because the Class sucks to play with due to how fucking stupid Mana Flower is

[hollow shell]

It's a reductive argument but: Maybe the flaws don't need to be fixed
Maybe this game was just a casual combat sandbox which has some RPG elements that didn't have a whole lot of thought put into them because that wasn't the point
Maybe we can just.. care less

[dense ferry]

Probably, yeah

I mean, I think every Class is fine mechanically. Rogue just has problems with its Accessory design, not Stealth

Mage is the exception, because Mana is a really dumb mechanic

Or, rather

Mana Flower and Mana Potions are really dumb

[hollow shell]

I am currently in the process of having fun playing mage
(with Wulfrum Prosthesis).

[dense ferry]

Yeah no I do think that Mage as a whole works, but those two things kinda just

Blow up the Class

Because they remove Mana as a mechanic

You don't need to worry about regenerating your Mana. You don't need to worry about stopping to fire for a while. You don't need to worry about interacting with the Class' main mechanic.

[misty lichen]

this could happen if calamity was declared to be a finished product, which it could be put at any point
but huge terraria mods don’t get to be finished, usually. and with cals very obsessive and flipflopping changes to a lot of its own and also vanilla mechanics, it’s unlikely to see it finished ever

they could set the directive to be fully focused on finishing the mod instead of changing weapon numbers so often, minor enemy and boss damage and projectile changes, you know the deal.

[dense ferry]

Sweeping Class overhauls are something that I quite simply do not agree with making, even if this may sound hypocritical given some of the things I said about Mana

[hollow shell]

I think it's pretty fun to have to stop using my weapon and switch to my other slot
It encourages me to get close to the enemy because the mana suck effect only works if you're close
(I don't know if the effect accelerates if I get close to a group of enemies, but it looks satisfying to see the particles come off of them so I do it anyway)
And I'm playing Rev+, so I have to time my rage and adren well so that I don't hit them during a mana downtime. If I reach max adren but have low mana I have to be more attentive about dodging for a few seconds so that I don't lose the opportunity.

[dense ferry]

Yeah, I get and I agree with that. Mage is fun when you are interacting with Mana

The problem is Mana Potions and Mana Flower

[misty lichen]

this is correct

[dense ferry]

Because they make you stop interacting with it

[hollow shell]

But I am intentionally not using Mana Flower because I fear Mana Sickness

[dense ferry]

Yeah, I know that

[errant wren]

i just forget mana potions exist

[dense ferry]

What is your point right now, even?

[misty lichen]

though it should be noted that without mana flower itd just be the same deal as it is right now, youd just press the hotkey every time instead of feeling forced into an accessory

[lucid marsh]

The by far easiest way to make mage more fun is to make there be no mana flower updates or mana potion upgrades

[errant wren]

who's? mine?

[dense ferry]

I am agreeing with you that Mage is fun in its state right now if you ignore Mana Potions and Mana Flower

[hollow shell]

If my play style is one that you're satisfied with cuz I am interacting with mana in a more fun way,
my style borne out of a fear of Mana Sickness,
then
Would you like to make it so that more people fear it like I do?

Should you simply double Mana Sickness's DPS reduction severity

[misty lichen]

if there were no upgrades then mana flower would still be used for the entire game
it’s not that simple, a complete function change is needed or making it so bad it’s useless

[lucid marsh]

Oh wait, the mana flower upgrade is an end game thing

[dense ferry]

No, if it were up to me I'd simply entirely rework how Mana Potions work

[lucid marsh]

At least make ethereal talisman inherit the mana cloak effect instead of the mana flower effect

[dense ferry]

I'd probably make so they work more like Health Potions in the sense that there is a Sickness tied to it

And they'd give you an effect for... 10, 15 seconds?

[lucid marsh]

But yeah maybe mana potions just like actually hurt you

[dense ferry]

Which would give you a Burst Phase

[misty lichen]

then you’re forced into wasting another slot for a mana flower accessory

you can’t just nerf it until it goes away

[hollow shell]

I assume by "Sickness" you mean a cannot-use cooldown because there's already a Sickness

[dense ferry]

Yeah

[echo kestrel]

that sounds neat

[dense ferry]

I have always held the idea that Mage should be a Burst Damage Class

[lucid marsh]

No you're not, that's the thing. You can skip mana flower entirely, and the class is not only playable, but more fun

[dense ferry]

And I'd like to make so Mana Potions incentivized that

[lucid marsh]

Or maybe dealing magic damage makes you take damage while you have mana sickness

[echo kestrel]

it’s like reverse true melee, burst damage from range instead of up close

[dense ferry]

Drinking them simply gives you a Burst Phase through some sort of buff

[misty lichen]

it is more fun but you objectively lose dps by doing this, is what i’m trying to tell you

[echo kestrel]

I dig that, further distances mage from mechanically being projectile melee with mana

[lucid marsh]

You can still win though, so nerf it and that stops mattering

[hollow shell]

You could indeed go the route of the RoD change with mana potions.
Replace the DPS reduction with a simple "you can't use it".

DPS reduction will happen anyway by virtue of the fact that you're not firing your weapon.
(like mana regen builds)

[hollow shell]

oh hmm

[misty lichen]

if you nerf it it is no different from removing the accessory, i told you that

[echo kestrel]

and progression for mages now includes the type of mana potion you choose to run

[lucid marsh]

No, nerf the potions themselves

[misty lichen]

you cannot nerf it until it goes away

[lucid marsh]

As we've been saying

[dense ferry]

Oh yeah I have no idea what the fuck we'd do for the Mana Potion Upgrades

[misty lichen]

again

exact same thing

[lucid marsh]

Remove them, of course

[echo kestrel]

nah that’d be boring

if the mage’s identity were based around burst phases

[lucid marsh]

No it literally isn't. You're just factually wrong. You make it so you are physically incapable of consuming a mana potion while you have mana sickness, as we have been saying

[dense ferry]

Removing any Vanilla Item from the Mod is a surefire way of nuking Mod Compatibility

[lucid marsh]

Why are you incapable of comprehending this

[misty lichen]

that’s not a nerf, that’s not what you said

[lucid marsh]

Yes it is?

[dense ferry]

Honestly might go the route of just

[misty lichen]

that’s a rework

why am i even listening to you fucking nvm

[lucid marsh]

Every time we talk you just attack me over some bullshit that doesn't matter, why can't you leave me alone

[dense ferry]

Upgrades give you a stronger Burst Phase at the cost of having longer Mana Sickness

Anyways I'm going to stop both of you

[hollow shell]

jesus christ schmoov and xb calm down

[dense ferry]

Please, calm down

[echo kestrel]

progression for how long your burst is or how much more damage you deal during sickness is an awesome route

[misty lichen]

this dude has only gotten aggressive at me in every conversation i’ve tried to have with them im sorry

just slightly annoying sorry for lashing out

wont happen again

[lucid marsh]

I think making a new mana potion mechanic could be interesting, I suppose, but I would personally rather it be irrelevant, and rely on mana regeneration stat

Plus also extra sources of mana regen

[dense ferry]

But yeah, this is what I'd do with Mage, personally. Change Mana Potions so they instead give you a Burst Phase where your damage becomes a lot higher and more consistent for a few seconds, at the cost of having a "impossible to consume another" debuff for some time. Upgrades would give you a stronger Burst Phase at the cost of having longer Mana Sickness duration

Mana Flower would then be reworked and interact with this mechanic in some way

[lucid marsh]

Would it be reasonable to ask for whatever rework is done to not be much stronger than instead optimizing for other sources of mana?

[hollow shell]

There's potential to this idea although it may or may not require rebalancing every single mage weapon

[dense ferry]

Changing Mana Potion to not invalidate the Class would already take that, so

If we wanna fix mage we have to change Mana Potion. If we change Mana Potion we have to rebalance the whole Class

[lucid marsh]

This is true. That said, the game is already playable without mana potions, so the weapons are not that far off from being balanced, I think?

I did it like 2 years ago I think

[misty lichen]

any rework to mana potions completely messes up not only cal weapons set up with it in mind like yharims crystal, but also all the vanilla weapons set up with it like last prism and laser machinegun

[echo kestrel]

might need to flatten mage damage across the board if you want to incentivize the system

so that having mana regen strats doesn’t automatically just make burst mage better

[misty lichen]

it’s an immense amount of work no matter what

unless you can be smart about it

[dense ferry]

Yeah, it's definitely not something we'll just Do

[hollow shell]

(s'why I recommended the more quick-and-dirty solution of just making Mana Sickness way more severe, to discourage using mana pot builds over the seemingly preferred mana regen builds)

[lucid marsh]

Oh, true. Last prims style weapons are pretty bad. Maybe some weapons could be made to... I don't know, not require mana, or have a mechanic independent of mana?

[dense ferry]

Probably would just change how they use Mana

Is it possible to make weapons consume decimals of Mana?

[echo kestrel]

i like the hard stop no mana pot RoD route tho, makes it a lot less fickle on how much dps reduction you’re willing to take

and makes it simpler, almost binary

[dense ferry]

I also honestly just always wanted Mage to be a Burst Damage Class. It makes the Class play differently from everything else

[echo kestrel]

TRUE

[misty lichen]

this might be stupid but personally i would make mana flowers only have a limited amount of uses during a boss fight but the way they give you mana makes them more impactful, the amount you can use scaling with progression or be a boostable stat, so like you can decide to consume a ton of them for a high amount of mana for a short period of time like during adren
and also in nonboss combat the cost is still just the cost of the potion itself (this would be assuming all mana pots are more expensive)

[echo kestrel]

need more diversity in the ranged damage playstyles

[dense ferry]

You have Melee and Ranger as the Vanilla flavor of Classes

And then Mage, Summoner and Rogue have something different about them

[errant wren]

i just play the game tbh

[misty lichen]

i like playing with toys and having fun

[dense ferry]

Also yeah I probably should've specified this but my idea for Mana Potions wouldn't make them just a boost

It'd be a core mechanic of the Class and you'd have to interact with it if you want maximum output of damage

It's something you're expected to have, basically

[hollow shell]

((I've been reading an ebook called The Wandering Inn which takes place in a video game world
How they "balance" mages and mana potions there is that they also have a "mana sickness" from drinking potions but it like actually is a sickness,
if you keep chugging mana pots to cast spells then you'll start to get nauseous and throw up or faint, and if you push yourself even further then you'll start bursting blood vessels and frying your brain.
You have to rest for the remainder of the day before you're fit to do battle again.))

((I suppose how that'd translate into a Terraria setting is like-

[hollow shell]

actually maybe something like this yeah. Only a few meaningful usages of mana potions.))

((Or something like the Alcohol Poisoning system))

[dense ferry]

I think that idea has a lot of merit, yeah. Ultimately the point is very clear in that Mana Potions should be more limited

Mana Flower is a whole other can of worms

Whatever effect it got in the case of a Mana Potion change is entirely up to debate

At the same time I think making it have an Active effect of sorts could be neat, it is still a Vanilla Item

So I wouldn't want to make it an entirely new item

At least keep it simple like Vanilla does with its passive bonuses

[lucid marsh]

2 ideas:
Mana sickness deals ramping damage to you the longer you have it
Mana sickness reduces magic damage by an amount that makes your total dps roughly equal to if you weren't using mana potions, so you're trading your burst for a constant effect

[dense ferry]

I think the latter is too difficult to apply and doesn't solve the issue

[lucid marsh]

these are separate ideas

yeah

[dense ferry]

I do not believe the current state of Mana Sickness can work in a meaningful way

You either make it equal to not spamming it (most people would still spam it)

Or you make it worse than bursting, rendering spam drinking potions completely worthless

Which would imo be even worse because it'd be a kick in the balls to everyone not paying attention to what we changed

[misty lichen]

the current difference between mana potions and regen is very weapon dependant but overall pots win slightly

[dense ferry]

Checking the amount of damage Mana Sickness is decreasing is painful and it'd just lead to unaware people going "why is Mage dealing so little damage?"

[dense ferry]

Mana sickness deals ramping damage to you the longer you have it

Why does every Mana discussion always go back to Chaos Stone?

But yeah I gotta go sleep now

4:30am Jesus Christ

[hollow shell]

I was about to mention that, yeah.
I remembered that existed when I compared the idea to Alcohol Poisoning.

Sleep well Rebecca

[hollow shell]

That second point is literally what Mana Sickness is supposed to be

I jsut got the best fukcing idea

Uncap Mana Sickness.

Take this effect to the extreme:

Let them take it above 10 seconds duration.

So, if you drink four or more, you literally can't deal any damage at all because you just reduced your DPS by more than 100%. You need to wait to dip below 20 seconds of duration on the debuff before you can do anything.

Make your weapons play the Fargo's squeaky toy noise when you deal 0 damage.

[errant wren]

starts using your hp to fire at 0 mana during this idk

[misty lichen]

(it wouldn’t work)

[hollow shell]

no don't encroach on Chaos Stone

[errant wren]

i don't play mage

[hollow shell]

Reading this kinda makes me wonder how people can tolerate the 50% decreased damage while doing Mana Flower builds

The weapon uptime on a regen build is definitely more than half

[misty lichen]

what?

are you misunderstanding how mana flower works

[hollow shell]

I suppose I'm thinking of extreme cases like Last Prism which just guzzle mana

[misty lichen]

any time you dont have positive buff uptime mana sickness hurts dps badly

so you usually try to decrease your mana consumption to the point where the debuff expires just as you need to eat the next potion

very very few weapons are balanced around not being able to diminish that

[hollow shell]

I see, that makes sense

Trying to prevent self-stacking

(Reminding me of ions in FTL)

[misty lichen]

and that very rarely happens too, it’s just with like last prism likes

and fabstaff for some reason

[hollow shell]

aight

So if you say have your mana drain rate at a perfect 5 seconds per potion, then you're only contending with a 12.5% DPS decrease on average
(25% to 0%)

which is like
Sorcerer Emblem is more than that.

hm.

Yeah I'm getting a better picture on why Mana Potions/Flower are a problem
(I mean I already knew it was a problem but I have the numbers now)

I do somewhat stand by making Mana Sickness doubly severe but maybe that'd be better done through doubled duration rather than doubled DPS decrease
So you get Mana Sickness for 10 seconds upon drinking a potion, but that's only 25% DPS decrease. 20 sec is the new 50% decrease. Still only takes 2 potions to reach that.

Makes it way easier to self-stack.

And then also uncap it so you can reach -100% DPS, to make them especially unappealing

[sand marlin]

I am pretty certain almost always mana regen beats mana flower so I don't really see why mana flower is a problem tbh

[hollow shell]

Regen may beat Mana Flower from an optimized standpoint, but is Mana Flower usually "good enough"?

[sand marlin]

If you change mana flower drastically then you are kinda hurting the people who don't wanna deal with the inconvenience of mana regen for no reason when they are objectively reducing their damage with potion spam + mana flower

Early game especially is terrible for mana potions

[sand marlin]

I wasn't talking about optimized

I am talking about general weapon testing

Most weapons I tested follow this line of logic

Mana potions are pretty bad until far later

I haven't tested much of post ML mage but I'd imagine mana potion isn't that worse off than mana regen at that stage

[misty lichen]

its overall been observed that regen does worse than flower though

[sand marlin]

How

[misty lichen]

it just has

do either of us have extensive proof on this

i guess not

[sand marlin]

Ig I don't have mana potion versions of the tests I've done pre hm

I only ever use Magnet Flower for the mana stars from minion spam

[misty lichen]

can we agree that overall the killtime difference isnt huge though

[sand marlin]

Sure

[cosmic dragon]

I have an idea but I'm not sure if it just me or not. I'm thinking about weapon progression. I love all the diverse weapons so naturally I like some more than others and I dislike how quickly they get outscaled especially post M-L. I was thinking it would be cool if there was a way to upgrade weapons so they can still be usable in new metas later in the game. I also think it would be funny for challenge runs, imagine a post-scaled flaregun

[sand marlin]

We have post scaled Flareguns they're called Firestorm Cannon and Spectralstorm Cannon

[light birch]

Usually that scaling is crafting them into better ones

[cosmic dragon]

I thought of it because back in the day I was using the scorching sun (final crystalline upgrade at that time) and got immediately outscaled post poltergeist

It was one of my favourite weapons

[median scaffold]

You can scale it yourself by using external mods, aka DragonLens

#suggestions-posting message
...I think that makes more sense in something like Fargo's Mutant Mod or QoT, not Calamity

[sand marlin]

#suggestions-posting message @mint steppe please read the suggestion rules document before making a post

[median scaffold]

Also, yeah, SIS

[sand marlin]

It's considered as a Specific Item Suggestion first and foremost which is just a big no

[hollow idol]

pretty specific, but indicator for arenas would be nice

[mint steppe]

What wrong?
It's just a QoL suggestion.

[sand marlin]

I just told you what's wrong

[sand marlin]

For like Yharon and SCal? Seems a bit much for just the two of them but I can see it working out if the summons themselves had indicators and not like this

Altar of the Accursed doesn't need anything additional but Blessed Phoenix Egg is just a classic boss summon... if it was placeable mayb

[median scaffold]

Tbh, why do you need an arena builder for anything, but Yharon and SCal?

Most of the time it is just a few layers of platforms with Heart Lanterns, Campfires and Bast Statues if you're fancy

[harsh echo]

No, I think an arena builder is nice.

It saves the time for people to ask for how an arena should be built in the discord, for one

[median scaffold]

Fair enough, but the ruler and autobridges exist

[harsh echo]

some people just don’t want autobridges, or don’t know they exist, or don’t want to install a mod with them, it is confusing

[hollow idol]

its not an arena builder, its an arena indicator

shows where scal and yharon's borders are

[harsh echo]

why does it say “except for two” which are those summons

[umbral gazelle]

i remember my suggestion about adding particle to corner around altar of the accursed and it got a 👍

[violet zephyr]

"like the Item Frame" Context is a powerful thing.

[hollow idol]

nvm i misread
indicators for those two would still be nice tho

[harsh echo]

“can hold items like the item frame, except for two”
“can hold items, like the item frame except for two”

The comma is a powerful thing

MISSING

[violet zephyr]

A more elegant solution would be just to include the dimensions in the tooltip.

Ruler already exists.

[harsh echo]

Ruler sucks

[sand marlin]

Wait a second... oh this is not even solving any problems

Honestly I'm just gonna disagree ruler is pretty good

I use it often myself

[hollow idol]

high effort sugg

[harsh echo]

Honestly i won’t shit on ruler; some use it, i don’t

[sand marlin]

I mark stuff with it using tiles and other things if the ruler does not reach far enough

Byeah this kind of suggestion is just "make arena builder" QoL which is definitely not what the kind of QoL cal's looking for

[median scaffold]

Ngl, Calamity should add an upgraded Ruler with the ability to mark blocks, etc.

[harsh echo]

Paint

[violet zephyr]

Ice Rod:

[harsh echo]

Ice rod ?

[violet zephyr]

You can place a tile.

[harsh echo]

You can’t be serious they will just melt away

[sand marlin]

The kind of stuff I build isn't that complicated so Ice Rod or any block like wood or stone works just fine

If you wanna do complicated shit, that's where you go for builder mods, not cal

Paint is pretty good for arenas though

Mainly coating for me

But also shadow paint for excellent background setup

[odd geyser]

this face is so cool they shall freeze

[gray bone]

omni are you speedrunning a warn rn

[odd geyser]

no what

sorry :ccc

[sand marlin]

Omnious

[odd geyser]

i just find these 3d faces funny

[gray bone]

you've like doubled the number of places you normally send this stuff to

[violet zephyr]

Omni, I say this sincerely, but, shut the fuck up.

[odd geyser]

[harsh echo]

weight of the world

[odd geyser]

i truly am lifting this world

[drowsy plank]

[harsh echo]

modewater alert!

[odd geyser]

rip

:/

[drowsy plank]

@mint steppe this is too specific; instead of thoroughly detailing the item, why not focus more on explaining the actual problem, which is that it's hard to figure out the borders of boss arenas before the fights

im pretty sure there were ideas passed around by the devs of simply adding border markers to the altar of accursed when you place it down in the first place

which seems much more elegant than this

similarly, im not sure how this 3x2 item would work with yharon's arena considering it spawns based on your player location which is 2x3

a yharon spawning pedestal doesnt sound like a bad idea now that i think about it

if accursed is going to generate the border markers itself

but that's a completely different idea

[sand marlin]

It's not borders actually

It's strictly saying not the two bordered boss summons

So it's not even looking into that

[drowsy plank]

wh

okay wow this is even worse than i thought what

[harsh echo]

i honestly think the “except” must be some kind of mistake; it won’t make sense otherwise

[olive saddle]

Something I wouldn't mind is an outline of Yharons and Scals arena because I'm extremely stupid and do it midbattle, and I'd like to somehow avoid that hastle or have some kind of outline

[sand marlin]

Hm yeah I can kinda see it

It's not well phrased but it's basically saying "it's Item Frame except it does this" when the way it phrases it says "it holds items except for these two"

[harsh echo]

Yeah

[mint steppe]

The reason for being 3 blocks wide is you can mark the center block as the Yharon summoning position.

[olive saddle]

What

Is it uneven or something?

[light birch]

Since it's based on player position as far as I understand, probably not

The player has no center, so that wouldn't really make sense

[fossil finch]

what this means is that those 2 blocks are the centers, in a 3 wide tile, yharons border would be uneven

[olive saddle]

Oh... i never knew that

Gross

[drowsy plank]

still, my point stands that this is way too specific; just focus on wanting a way to make an arena for these bosses before fighting them

[sand marlin]

#suggestions-posting message I really don't get why they aren't already available tbh

With advertisement comes responsibility smh

[hollow idol]

the plush message having no config is intentional

[sand marlin]

Oh we know about that actually

Just like the scal plush

And it should have a config regardless

Same reason why all other one time messages have configs to disable them

[distant gyro]

shameless sellouter

[echo kestrel]

“our mod”

something seems tonally off about that

[sleek turret]

oops the communist manifesto strayed into the sugg sorry

[sand marlin]

Yeah it should be "my mod"

[sleek turret]

that's capitalism

[hollow idol]

[harsh echo]

wtf..

[slim cairn]

Transformers

[median scaffold]

Hm...

Where's the "bad accessories" document?

Tbh, this thing needs either a buff, or a rework of some kinds

[misty lichen]

suggestion farming again are we

https://docs.google.com/document/d/14Ibx8rDopFHdzYGf1C5uDDVU-8J5UDeilniZ6f66OEI/edit?usp=sharing its here

vex isnt useless but it just sucks ass

[median scaffold]

It can do literally nothing under rather non-specific circumstances and even if it does something, it is not particularly good

[drowsy plank]

but guys you can wear vex and regenator at the same time

[misty lichen]

its horrible

but its not useless so i cant put it on the thing

[median scaffold]

Ah, lovely
Use 2 bad accessories to make a decent one

[frail fox]

Can’t believe wings aren’t updated…

[misty lichen]

[drowsy plank]

20% damage is i think the highest single damage stat on a single accessory besides DSA

so it's nothing to scoff at

it's just mid

[frail fox]

I mean it’s not called “useless” accessories just bad/below average

[misty lichen]

if it was below average accessories then id have to put in 75% of accessories

[gaunt needle]

Is that under 50% or under (and including) 50% tho?

[median scaffold]

Including 50%, as far as I can say

[misty lichen]

i could loosen the rules a bit i guess but thats for the post-sso version of the doc

[vocal cedar]

Am I missing something how is Old Die not here
This has to be a misunderstanding on my part somehow right??

[median scaffold]

Old Die is... fine, I think?

Its purpose is to increase the luck stat (which is a mess in itself) and it does it fairly good
Didn't see anyone actually use it, tho

[misty lichen]

old die is the best luck increase on an accessory possible

by a lot actually

and luck has a noticeable effect on rare drop chance

[harsh echo]

equip die right before boss dies, profit?

[misty lichen]

most other luck increases are conditional, and if they arent theyre small

[median scaffold]

Luck doesn't affect boss drops, specifically in Expert+

Or, at least, iirc

[golden sonnet]

it does

[harsh echo]

vrej

[golden sonnet]

luck affects boss drops unless they are specifically exempt

[median scaffold]

Hm, how so?

[golden sonnet]

even in expert+

[golden sonnet]

wdym

like what items are exempt?

mostly grappling hooks, and a few other items

[harsh echo]

it’s exempt btw!

[golden sonnet]

I knew that I am just very sleep deprived

thnx

[frail fox]

I suppose but what’s “average” is kinda subjective, especially with accessories so idk, loosening the rules after SSO sounds good, especially since a lot on there atm will probably be removed by then

[royal tapir]

The doc

[median scaffold]

How does luck affect boss drops?

[vocal cedar]

Alright then I guess I conflated underused with underpowered
On topic of underused, do y'all think Howl's Heart has a chance of getting in mayhaps?

[frail fox]

Hi shark

[vocal cedar]

It felt very underwhelming last I used it

[frail fox]

All 4 Howl's Heart users ever

[golden sonnet]

increases your chance of getting an item if it isn't in a "1 of X" list

[median scaffold]

Choose:
Any accessory that grants an extra minion slot (and inflicts a debuff)
Howl's Heart

[royal tapir]

hi ombgus

[median scaffold]

CIT, what's your opinion on this matter?

[harsh echo]

I chose howls heart cause it looked cool

[median scaffold]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/232322947694460938/1301890099042058270/TerrariaSoul.gif

[royal tapir]

That looks like anti-matter

[golden sonnet]

cool gif, what from

[harsh echo]

wow what is this

[median scaffold]

So, not particularly a lot of items, but a chunk of them
Got it. Thanks

[frail fox]

[median scaffold]

A resprite for Soul of Terraria from Fargo's Souls Mod

[harsh echo]

Amazing

[misty lichen]

IT STILL HAS NON VANITY EFFECTS??????????

[vocal cedar]

It sure does

[misty lichen]

this has gotta be one of the most obscure calamity items

[vocal cedar]

Turnip head literally doesn't do anything

[golden sonnet]

it's timed to be worth using for queen slime specifically based on killtimes

[median scaffold]

Wait, is Howl's Heart a donor item?

[frail fox]

Shoutout to donors

[golden sonnet]

literally everything else it sucks for

[misty lichen]

you WOULD NOT believe it

[golden sonnet]

and even this is like, a minute difference

[median scaffold]

I forgot

[vocal cedar]

Donor has a rather cool name too

[median scaffold]

Time to ask a donor if the item could be buffed

[royal tapir]

Balance happens independently of donors

[vocal cedar]

Thats good

[median scaffold]

That's, indeed, really good

[harsh echo]

What if a donor paid $10000

[golden sonnet]

if you needed approval to nerf something that would be very silly

[royal tapir]

Nothing would happen

[frail fox]

Can’t have an item kill duke fishron in 3 seconds, tyranny

[median scaffold]

CIT, if I would to donate you, can I buff an item? :plumg:

[royal tapir]

See, if someone was stupid enough to offer me $10000, I would take it then do nothing

[misty lichen]

so an imp staff, a shitty light pet, and a nothing

cool item

[frail fox]

Pet!

[vocal cedar]

** **

[misty lichen]

i love tony hawks moving castle

[frail fox]

Can I give you $10001 to do something

[vocal cedar]

It's a good movie ok?

[royal tapir]

I forgot to buff Seedler's damage by 1

[vocal cedar]

I hear the books are good too

[median scaffold]

The item is not

[vocal cedar]

Add poison to the Seedler

[frail fox]

Devastated by this information

[misty lichen]

seedler fires nontoxic nuts

[vocal cedar]

Explosive nuts

Like the bombardier beetle

[median scaffold]

On my way to leak all the buffs that Hellborn gets

[frail fox]

Hellfire

[idle dagger]

I disagree with archaic powder being here tbh

[median scaffold]

Tbh, it just exists

[misty lichen]

any item that’s statwise outclassed is put in

[median scaffold]

[misty lichen]

yes you could technically stack it with ancient chisel but mining speed cap

[median scaffold]

Is there a possibility of uncapping the mining speed cap?

[misty lichen]

no

i don’t know why youd do that just to make this one accessory identical to a vanilla accessory useful

it exists in the first place specifically so mods can’t do that

[vocal cedar]

Is Blazing Core actually good

[median scaffold]

Hand of Creation is better at the building department, and Obsidian Shield, Radiant Ooze, Crown Jewel, Honey Dew, etc. are a thing

[median scaffold]

Yes. It is overbuffed as of right now, I think

[vocal cedar]

Because Flamelicked Shell is in

[vocal cedar]

Understandable

[frail fox]

Flamelicked was buffed and changed so now it’s good, just still on there because it wasn’t good before the buff (the text is crossed out and a note stating it was buffed is there)

[misty lichen]

if the text has strikethrough then it’s no longer on the list

some items got buffed but don’t have strikethrough because they’re still useless with them, like frost barrier

[vocal cedar]

Also potentially critical lack of Flesh Totem, unless I'm just bad

[misty lichen]

we cannot have the flesh totem discussion today

[frail fox]

Oh god

[vocal cedar]

Don't stroke my curiosity

Or is it stoke

[misty lichen]

this is why the rule “they have to be objectively ass” has to be established

[vocal cedar]

I hope its stoke..

[median scaffold]

Flesh Totem has 2 usages
A "dodge" every 20 seconds
No usage at all

[misty lichen]

listen man

if i’m literally only ever getting hit by signus charge attacks and nothing else can hit me

then that item is 50% adr every 20 seconds

[median scaffold]

[misty lichen]

IT HAPPENS OK

[median scaffold]

Will you be hitted by Signus only?

[misty lichen]

ceaseless void is also a good point, the suck phases are just really easy to dodge and the non suck phases are the hard part, during which the boss only deals contact damage to you

[thorn talon]

Guys what does it mean when a suggestion has a green or purple or blue line next to it ?

[median scaffold]

Well, at least class setups are fixed and we have a handful amount of good suggestions....

[median scaffold]

Usually, the same as some emojis

[violet zephyr]

Different reactions done by the bot. Purple is the 🏁, Green is the 👍, and I assume by blue you mean 🔒.

[median scaffold]

Can't say exactly

[violet zephyr]

There is also yellow for ✅ and red for 🚫

[harsh echo]

Uhm!

[violet zephyr]

And also orange for 🛠️

[vocal cedar]

Why isn't there a bot reactions guide

[violet zephyr]

What do you mean?

If you mean a legend, there is one pinned.

[vocal cedar]

Like an explanation on what each possible reaction emoji on a sugg means
On voting, not posting

[violet zephyr]

Yes, there is one for both channels, and is pinned in this one.

[median scaffold]

I need to make a suggestion about post-ML debuffs....

[vocal cedar]

That has only bluecheck and greencheck though
What is ⚒️ and 🔒

[violet zephyr]

I don't think you can read.

[vocal cedar]

I don't think that either

[harsh echo]

The message only has a preview in pins section, Jump to view entire message

[median scaffold]

"The suggestion is worked on" and "There are plans that contradict the suggestion"

[vocal cedar]

Oh it's a discord mobile thing again

[harsh echo]

Plants…

[vocal cedar]

Of course i should have expected it actually

[harsh echo]

yeah don’t listen to sok he is having a rough time lately

[median scaffold]

Discord, when Mobile.....

[vocal cedar]

Naw it's my third reading comprehension mistake today I need sleep
But schedule has to be fixed so

[harsh echo]

discord when user interface design

[vocal cedar]

Byea anyway wym "plants"
Im planning on making a fruit suggestion

Because cal trees drop no fruit when shaken

[violet zephyr]

There are plants that contradict the suggestion

[median scaffold]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/232322947694460938/1301890099042058270/TerrariaSoul.gif

I have a plant that contradicts the suggestion!

[violet zephyr]

Do not hide your crimes.

[median scaffold]

Yes, I will!

[misty lichen]

why is soul of terraria here

[violet zephyr]

(edited)

[vocal cedar]

SoK is better than Grammarly fr fr

[median scaffold]

-# (edited)

[median scaffold]

Why not

https://tenor.com/view/tegu-pet-grab-silly-enjoyment-gif-27617448

[harsh echo]

-# (edited)

[median scaffold]

-# (lizarded)

[harsh echo]

[violet zephyr]

‫

[vocal cedar]

Byea even though calamity went out of its way to improve and streamline fruit droprates, its unique trees have no such drops

[vocal cedar]

Ill make the suggestion in the next 2 days if able

[median scaffold]

On my way to IS you

[violet zephyr]

Ooh, look you can make an ‫‫ message

[vocal cedar]

I don't know what IS is

[harsh echo]

.message

[vocal cedar]

Typical Dumbass Kino user moment i know

[median scaffold]

SIS, but without the S

[vocal cedar]

Oh

[harsh echo]

wonder what is the least upvoted suggestion

[wide river]

The worst I've seen in recent times is mid-30s, but I'm sure there's been lower

[median scaffold]

Any suggestion that existed for only a second (the bot loves us all)

[misty lichen]

i was told at one point that acidwood trees would specifically not get fruit for a reason

i don’t remember the reason

[vocal cedar]

Hmmm

Those were my main target

[violet zephyr]

I imagine fruits imbued with radiation would not be good.

[misty lichen]

but fruits imbued with corruption are perfectly ok

[idle dagger]

I don’t think my suggestions are being sent next Friday
damn

[vocal cedar]

I mean one would think crimson flesh fruit also wouldn't be good yea

But it's just blood oranges

[harsh echo]

what does corruption taste like

[violet zephyr]

Fruits imbued with the essence of evil, dictatorial gods are perfectly fine.

Radiation is too far, though.

[misty lichen]

now what about astral

[vocal cedar]

Curse you Draedon

[violet zephyr]

That's just funky mana, that is fine.

You literally inject yourself with it.

[frail fox]

Definitely tasty

[vocal cedar]

Star candy...

Like sap from monolith trees

Yum

[misty lichen]

extremely vague answer i don’t think it actually means anything

[violet zephyr]

I

I think that is a joke...

[royal tapir]

I see no reason to not implement fruits

[vocal cedar]

Infamous Elderberry incident

[royal tapir]

Just on the backburner

[vocal cedar]

Aight so I wait

[frail fox]

Stone coconut

[vocal cedar]

Not like suggesting will speed it up

[harsh echo]

25 missing 0 found

[median scaffold]

On the topic of coconuts........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKQPey6L42M

[vocal cedar]

Probably better off this way, Id have no idea how to properly word "add fruit pls"

In the first place i mean

That suggestion officially cancelled, devs got this 👍
Now Im sure i had another in mind...

[harsh echo]

man this song is nostalgic

[violet zephyr]

After quite a few minutes of scrolling, the lowest Star rating I've found is 27:
#suggestions-voting message

There is one with lower slightly above it, but it was rejected by a developer early, so I don't count it.

[wide river]

Surprised it wasn't a suggestion that involved nerfing the player in some way

[vocal cedar]

The "Increase number of weapons from AS" has 19

[harsh echo]

i wonder if the bot lists the numbers anywhere

[wide river]

Like the many throngs of "nerf money"

[median scaffold]

but it was rejected by a developer early, so I don't count it.

[vocal cedar]

Ah

[median scaffold]

Don't worry, SSO is nerfing money

[harsh echo]

really

[median scaffold]

What a weird sentence

[vocal cedar]

Less fish=less money

[wide river]

Nerfed fish economy

[frail fox]

Bosses now drop 3 copper

[harsh echo]

wtf.

[vocal cedar]

That sounds like a seed Redigit would make

[errant wren]

nerf fish economy? how will this affect fishing season?

[vocal cedar]

Economy in shambles seed

[royal tapir]

Still sells the drops for 35 gold

[violet zephyr]

How will this affect the trout population?

[errant wren]

https://tenor.com/view/fishing-gif-23289355

[wide river]

Ever so slightly

[molten lintel]

Not the fishing nerf 😔

[violet zephyr]

#suggestions-voting message

Lower.

[frail fox]

Sells 20 Draedon forges

[novel belfry]

gem trees drop acorns

whats to stop them from growing fruit?

(it'd probably be hard to eat tho)

[ashen warren]

rate my magic storage setup

[median scaffold]

Me, when I #calamity-mod-talk you:

[thorn talon]

Me, clueless, building my magic storage Post-DoG not knowing there's upgrades for them

[sand marlin]

#suggestions-posting message Blazing Core is a thing

So many things are wrong with that post but for now, Blazing Core's existence entirely invalidates this suggestion because the reasoning for having a lategame parry falls apart

[lyric depot]

Ok I did not take account for the blazing core

[frail fox]

Also something about Rampart becoming a parry possibly too

Idk why the sponge would need a parry anyway

[idle dagger]

hello

I was about to come in here and mention rampart yeah

[sand marlin]

Frozen Shield can probably go and whatever is doing the parrying can take its place

[lyric depot]

Rampart is a shield, and only works for physical contact

Actually I forgot

[misty lichen]

what

[lyric depot]

It's not but still not a parry accessory

[sand marlin]

Very confusing

[frail fox]

I mean there are possible dev plans for Rampart to become a parry, nothing to do with it currently

[lyric depot]

I confused it with the asgard valor

[sand marlin]

That makes sense

[lyric depot]

But I only really see Rampart as a free hit and regen than a parry accessory

[idle dagger]

rampart doesn't have regen

[lyric depot]

Really?

Ok I guess that makes sense

[idle dagger]

that was changed last big updatr

[sand marlin]

It'll be a bit sad to see Frozen Shield go if that is the one being replaced since its role in Rampart isn't negligible but the main purpose of having a lategame IFrame accessory is still better than trying to fit that in there somewhere. Maybe cal will make a different upgrade for Paladin Shield stuff as a more multiplayer driven accessory who knows

[lyric depot]

Sadge

[idle dagger]

my hero's shield sugg comes to fruition

trust

[lyric depot]

But still, I would love to see The sponge be a late parry accessory I hate the way it's become a free hit. I like a more strategic type accessories instead of making it easy mode

[sand marlin]

How do we tell them

I don't think you should keep trying to make lategame accessories even more complex and loaded

[lyric depot]

I've even heard some revengeance players say it made bosses easier

It is not that complicated

[sand marlin]

If you want an accessory effect to be continued, you don't just slap it onto a lategame accessory. You ask for another accessory line. This is how you avoid making accessories with amalgamations of effects.

[lyric depot]

Asking for another accessory line just makes work for programmers and artist unless we're reworking the blazing core to be an craftable upgrade for the flame licked shell. This is just an alter of an already made accessory so it's not gonna be much work

Unless working in a parrying function is THAT hard

[frail fox]

Isn’t this the point

[lyric depot]

When I mean easier, I mean it took them one or two tries without effort

[misty lichen]

me after fighting bosses by using weapons and wearing accessories

[frail fox]

Also again, Rampart is likely to become a parry accessory if anything

Not as a suggestion, just that it’s been said by devs

[lyric depot]

Where does it say that? I wanna see

Insanity 100 is gonna give me an essay on why Im wrong Istg

[sleek turret]

LMA

[frail fox]

Subject to change of course but yeah

[sand marlin]

Well what you're asking for is exactly what cal is trying to avoid, much like before as I explained on your previous suggestion. They dislike slapping a bunch of effects on the same accessory which then kinda forces all the effects to be weaker than they would be individually to the point of irrelevance. Sponge shield itself is already confusing in how it works to most players as well as the effect already being very powerful currently. There is also completely no connection between Sponge and parries so this would make no sense and does not tie in whatsoever. Doing this would just introduce more headaches to everyone with little to no benefit

You still have your easy way out, just ask for another line

It's at worst a coinflip, infinitely better than what it'd be rn

[lyric depot]

It's literally just 180 shield, whats so complicated about that?

[sand marlin]

It can nullify effects that you normally couldn't on taking damage without the shield

For example, debuffs. You cannot be inflicted with anything on absorbing a full hit with the shield

Did you know about this?

[lyric depot]

Yes?

[sand marlin]

So why the confusion then? If you know about it you should understand

[lyric depot]

Like, thats what the shield is for

Im asking whats complicated about it

If we wanna be simpler, why not just make the ramparts just another free hit with invincibility frames?

[sand marlin]

Idk if this is a language barrier or not but I just can't seem to get through to you so I'm just going to stop here but I'd advise listening more carefully with others because this sure does not feel great explaining all this just to not come to an understanding

[lyric depot]

IM LITERALLY ASKING WHATS COMPLICATED??

[novel belfry]

wallsonbob have you actually used the new sponge

[lyric depot]

Yes

I tested it and it's just a shield

[dense ferry]

Rampart is becoming a Parry

[lyric depot]

Nothing more is more complicated than that

[novel belfry]

the shield actually straight up prevents you from losing adrenaline until the shield breaks

[lyric depot]

I thought were going for more simpler accessories. What happened to that?

[novel belfry]

thats fucking insane

[novel belfry]

not everything has to be the same

[lyric depot]

What?

What do you mean by that?

[novel belfry]

there can be simpler accessories and complex accessories at the same time

[dense ferry]

what

Rampart is already simple as fuck

[lyric depot]

https://tenor.com/view/facepalm-really-stressed-mad-angry-gif-16109475

[dense ferry]

It's just Iframe gallore

[lyric depot]

I'm not getting yall

[dense ferry]

It gets a Parry on top of that

[violet zephyr]

More effects are not being put on Sponge because it already has a unique mechanic, it does not need two of them.

[dense ferry]

Also that

Your main point is already being covered in the form of Rampart, which will become a late game Parry option

[novel belfry]

rebecca wallsonbob has been asking for more sponge features for a bit

[lyric depot]

Alright alright I'll wait till that comes. If that is going to be a parry option, I'm gonna be fine with that

I'm done for today

[dense ferry]

I know I was here the last time

[violet zephyr]

Also, this comment makes you look really bad and unwilling to accept that you can be wrong sometimes.

[lyric depot]

Mainly because it's not convincing me? You're mainly just talking about "making things simple" and then talk about there can be complex things

And a bunch of comments about a simple 180 shield being complicated for the average calamity player

[violet zephyr]

They were talking about not having things have several, disjointed effects.

[dense ferry]

I'm also going to say this, this is the second time you have turned this chat into an insane argument and you have been fairly toxic about getting pushback on things related to Sponge. I am telling you to not repeat this again, for you are disrupting this chat and making everyone leave in a bad mood from this discussion.

[lyric depot]

I tried being corporative and yet I'm being attacked because I'm trying to defend my suggestion

[strange pebble]

.<

[novel belfry]

.<

[violet zephyr]

Do you want a proper critique on your suggestion? I can give one, but I'm afraid you might not like the fact that it will be mostly negative.

[lyric depot]

Well, yes please give me one

Please give me a proper critique about how my suggesstion is wrong other than it's complex

[dense ferry]

You aren't being attacked, people provided arguments against your Suggestion multiple times and every time you have been presented with how complex Shields truly are, you just answer it with "it's not complex actually". To put it quite simply, trying to argue with you is like talking to a wall because you just straight up refuse to acknowledge the fact that your point about the Sponge not being complex enough is objectively wrong, and one surefire way of making people not like you is by just going "nuh uh" when proof against your point is presented.

[strange pebble]

:0

[violet zephyr]

You introduce yourself, which is entirely unneeded. You ramble about how Flame-Licked Shell is your favourite accessory. You ramble about how Melee has had a parry with Ark, which is entirely unneeded. You incorrectly call rams parries, and use this as evidence that somehow this is bad. You entirely forgo mentioning Blazing Core. You provide no reasoning why The Sponge needs a parry. You attempt to give the Sponge a highly specific function.

[dense ferry]

I'm exclaiming it because the Suggestion will be 100% locked due to Rampart getting a Parry too and just entirely solving the problem the Sugg tries to raise

[lucid marsh]

... yikes. I might be kind of stupid and mean sometimes, but at least I can admit when I realize I'm wrong

[slim cairn]

Its the second time user acts like that isnt it

[slim cairn]

Yeah rams arent exactly parries

[lucid marsh]

Rams are pretty fun. Not parries though.

[novel belfry]

what he should’ve called them is “sugarcoats”

https://tenor.com/view/tekken-tekken-8-reina-reina-mishima-i'm-not-gonna-sugar-coat-it-gif-1103758349505817048

[idle dagger]

While subject to change ofc, is the idea that rampart would just gain a parry on top of it's current effects, or will it lose something?

[sand marlin]

Frozen Shield is very replaceable

[slim cairn]

What does frozen shield do on rampart again

[sand marlin]

Knockback immunity, 15% DR under 50% health, Paladin Shield's multiplayer conditionally shared health mechanic

[slim cairn]

The 15% dr is still nice imo

The knockback immunity is irrelevant tho i agree

[sand marlin]

Oh it's not bad, it's just very replaceable

[misty lichen]

its only irrelevant because theres an overcentralizing knockback immunity accessory that hasnt been nerfed in years

[slim cairn]

Honestly everyone would either be using something else for that or rampart would dominate 100%

[misty lichen]

me going back in time to prevent calamity ram timeline

[slim cairn]

You do not want to play calamity without knockback immunity

Imagine providence with knockback

[misty lichen]

i can very well

its fine?????

[slim cairn]

I mean you are also like

Extremely good

[misty lichen]

i did prov without knockback immunity back in malice mode where i took over 80 attempts to yeshit it

while tanking extremely hard

ninja belt was just better

[echo kestrel]

dire thunderhead’s hero shield sugg:

[idle dagger]

If frozen shield is removed from rampart I will push fro a post-ML hero's shield upgrade even harder

[echo kestrel]

oh hey you thought the same thing lmfao

[sand marlin]

It's generally fine but it gets pretty bad on holy stars because you get hit on one trajectory line and you're pushed right into another. Consequences of knockback being very raw and untouched is you could maybe tone it slightly to not push you around much or heck since it's a precision attack just make it not deal knockback

[misty lichen]

you get pushed into iframes, you have iframes terry

[sand marlin]

Yeah but it kills your momentum and base IFrames generally aren't enough to avoid chainhits like that

Current IFrame accessories are a blessing though 🙏

Much deserved attention rn just need to see what happens when defense damage is tuned back down

[misty lichen]

i think im only now realizing the divergence here

whenever i got mad at chain hits back when i was bad i just put on deific amulet or cross necklace and then i never got chainhit again

but most people put other stuff in their defensive accessory slot

[sand marlin]

I do think it's fair to just suggest IFrame accessory but yeah knockback in general can be much more customizable and healthier with or without them

[echo kestrel]

finally, a new entry in #suggestions-voting lmao

[ripe owl]

That's me!

(did I really post that at 9 am local yesterday...)

[olive saddle]

Damn this is a semi frequent sugg

[echo kestrel]

can you believe it’s been almost four days since the last post that got into voting

this may be retaliation for that one span of 24 hours last week where there was a massive slew of good suggs lol

[echo kestrel]

i’m curious, is it tied to framerate or something? i’ve genuinely always found draedon to talk/type so slowly for how fast i read

[idle dagger]

this suggestion is based

i think my problem is that I can't scroll while he was talking

[scarlet musk]

people responding to my suggestion please ping me because im going to bed soon

[oblique otter]

red sun over paradise

[hollow idol]

issue is it's a pretty bold change for a dev item
even if said dev isnt in this server anymore

past old dev item reworks have stayed true to the original concept's cores

[sand marlin]

It's also very stretching it

Red Sun doesn't have anything close to class identity crisis

[grave zinc]

@short stream - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Rework the Lunarian Bow]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@thorn river - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Add a Cosmilite ore item to complete the shimmer chain]

It has been reviewed by the devs, and for one reason or another they decided it would be best not to implement it.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@echo leaf - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Have modded alcohol buffs affect the player character's eyes]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@arctic barn - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make Alcohol items placeable]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@hollow verge - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make Vernal Soil spawn Jungle Enemies]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@arctic barn - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make Alcohol items placeable]

It has been add to the devs' to-do list and planned for implementation!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[oblique otter]

thats alot

[sand marlin]

🔥

[arctic barn]

yay

!

[sand marlin]

This is because Distortion™️

And that uh shimmer chain is not a valid reason

[gritty plaza]

Do we have any idea how far off the Distortion is, other than Not Soon™? /genq

[sand marlin]

Well as far as the roadmap goes it's probably not before crags? Unsure if it's before or after profaned stuff(if this still is a thing), Idr the order

[olive saddle]

Sidenote: dog rework (as far as i know) may come before distortion. I might have seen an offhand comment from someone mentioning that the devs might rework dog not in the distortion update but earlier

[short stream]

[weary bane]

thank god

lunarian is kinda dissapointing rn

[drowsy plank]

@scarlet musk this is a specific rework suggestion and a dev item

[drowsy plank]

@lapis warren this sounds like something for #1178515062030348308 i think?

[lapis warren]

maybe

[drowsy plank]

it's nearly identical to my suggestion about mana polarizer's healing which im pretty sure i also moved to balance thread

so i flagged it as such

[lapis warren]

okay, i'll write it there

[drowsy plank]

footage might help too btw

[lapis warren]

thanks

[coral carbon]

Reposting suggestions is fine, right?

[echo kestrel]

Ye, just wait at least 2 weeks since you last posted it

[umbral gazelle]

no, get ready to be threw with plushie

[echo kestrel]

But quick tip, also try to make it more concise or if ever see what you can improve with the sugg in terms of wording

[median scaffold]

Isn't it still in the branch?

...or 2 weeks already have passed..?

[median scaffold]

Eithery way, yeah, that's a good tip
If the suggestion was not popular, there's a reason why it wasn't popular

[coral carbon]

OK, I deleted my sugg for now, I'll wait the 2 weeks and try again (unless they passed already, as some suggestions already got passed

[echo kestrel]

I made my auric rejection demonshade sugg a lot less wordy when i reposted and it got 50% more votes than last time

[coral carbon]

I checked, it got sent to #suggestions-voting on 24th of October, so there weren't 2 full weeks yet

[median scaffold]

God, you almost scared me

[coral carbon]

Is this version of the sugg good for when I will go post it again?
Rework Grape Beer
Grape Beer is an Hardmode alcohol item that grants an healing equal to the Healing Potion, while also restoring 100 Mana and making your defense weaker for 15 seconds (with the possibility for alcohol poisoning during that time, if you use it when you have already 3 alcohol buffs on you). Which is pitiful to other options available around that tier, like Greater Healing Potion or Red Wine. It sucks even compared to pre-Hardmode Healing Potions, Restoration Potions, Honeyfins, and Hadal Stew, which heal for the same amount (or more) without any drawbacks.
So, I think that buffing its healing will be a good thing. Alternatively, if this is intended to be a joke item without any real purpose other to show that Fabsol loathes it, it could be heavily nerfed to reflect its abhorrent nature.

For comparison, here's the original:
Rework Grape Beer
Grape Beer is an Hardmode alcohol item that grants an healing equal to the Healing Potion, while also restoring 100 Mana and making your defense weaker for 15 seconds (with the possibility for alcohol poisoning during that time, if you use it when you have already 3 alcohol buffs on you). Compared to the Greater Healing Potions that restore 150 HP without any drawbacks (and with the same Potion Sickness cooldown), and the fact that by the time of Hardmode, you should have plenty of Healing Potions or even the superior Restoration Potions/Honeyfins, Grape Beer is truly useless. Not to mention the Hadal Stew, which is a pre-Hardmode food item that makes the Grape Beer obsolete in all aspects before it can be even obtained (Hadal Stew heals more and has lower cooldown, while not having any drawbacks, and being earlier in progression). Even with the tooltip mentioning that "This crap is abhorrent", having an item that gets outclassed before it can be obtained doesn't fit that well with me. So, I think that buffing its healing will be a good thing - maybe even slightly higher than the Greater Healing Potion, to make the choice feel impactful. Alternatively, if this is intended to be a joke item, it could be heavily nerfed to reflect its abhorrent nature.

[median scaffold]

That looks better, but the title is somewhat misleading
You don't want a full rework of Grape Beer, just a change to make it... different

[coral carbon]

Then, will something like Rebalance Grape Beer be better?

[distant gyro]

then it would go in #1178515062030348308

[sand marlin]

Grape Beer is a joke item it's meant to be bad

[coral carbon]

So, can I post it there?

[coral carbon]

That's one of the solutions that I said in my sugg; to nerf it to the ground so it's clear that it's a joke item

[hollow verge]

YEAH

[sand marlin]

One sentence at the end of a "rework item" telling it to be nerfed down to the ground isn't really saying much tbh you should either go with one or the other there's not really an inbetween

[median scaffold]

...well, uh, I have a small of ideas for suggestions on my mind, so I'll share it here

1. Change post-ML debuffs to be more variable and / or interesting (specifically on enemies)
2. Make The Amalgam more useful in one way or another
3. "Exaggerate" the effects of some alcohols

||And I need to repost one suggestion from Crit, because it was a good idea...||

[hollow verge]

what does 2 mean

you can make it post dog iirc

OH

[median scaffold]

Oops

[hollow verge]

that makes more sense

[median scaffold]

What if Amalgam was post-Yharon and the code just said "no"

[hollow verge]

is it not useful? im curious about your argument

[hollow shell]

((I'm concerned that it hasn't been posted there yet))

[sand marlin]

It's exclaimed anyway

[hollow shell]

This does not count for the dedicated item rule because it is a very very old item and is not for a Patron

It should have the specific bit removed though, yes

[hollow verge]

this is about to get exclaimed

[wheat ocean]

i can hear the swat team coming to my house already

[sleek turret]

LMA

[drowsy plank]

okay i saw someone talking about it being a dev item and about wanting to keep the spirit so i assumed you'd prolly still need to contact especially when arguing for it to... turn from a sword to a magic weapon

mmmmmmmmmmmm

this is definitely NOT allowed but

this IS kinda funny

[hollow verge]

it's a little funny but

gfb sugg

[drowsy plank]

i forget did we add gfb suggs to dont

[wheat ocean]

the swat team has shown me mercy

[median scaffold]

For what it's worth, I think The Amalgam is painfully mediocre
It has 5 effects, out of which only 3 are at least somewhat useful — the dodge, the potion buffs duration increase and the fact that potion buffs remain after death
Even then, I would argue that the potion buffs affecting effects are much more useful during the the post-DoG buffed events, since you can die a handful amount during them... but one of the materials of The Amalgam requires to beat all 3 of those events. Fun
The other 2 (the on-hit rain and debuff spread effects, and the additional damage) are pretty much a filler. The debuff spread equals to up to 2930 (dunno if Irradiated can be buffed by itself or not) damage at max and consistent -15% of contant damage, and the rain effect... exists, I guess?

[wheat ocean]

no not yet

only "no joke suggestions"

nothing specifying no GFB suggestions

[drowsy plank]

amalgam when 15% damage + dodge and that's the only parts that matter

[median scaffold]

^

[median scaffold]

CIT disagrees, sadly

[violet zephyr]

There is a rule for GFB suggestions. It is called the "Lack of Reasoning" rule.

[median scaffold]

Tbh, I would like to see this suggestion (FREE SPONGE, YOOOOOOO ), but yeah

[glass arch]

yeah

[wheat ocean]

at least im not going to be publicly executed

[glass arch]

its possible to suggest something for gfb its just

REALLY hard to do it

[slim cairn]

You will

💥

[wheat ocean]

A-
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💀