tracers would be post some sentinel i think
#suggestions-discussion
drowsy plank
idle dagger
ah
glass arch
yeah
idle dagger
still good tier wise
glass arch
if it was directly post provi itd be a wing instagrade
drowsy plank
it's very funny how elysian wings and elysian shield are the same tier but elysian tracers are post-DoG
goofy
glass arch
rename them to asgardian tracers cluebed
drowsy plank
idle dagger
if it was directly post provi itd be a wing instagrade
reminds me of another set of boots...
drowsy plank
lmao are we really giving drews wings into seraphs the stink eye
idle dagger
nah
drowsy plank
at least they're more like sidegrades
slim cairn
tracers would be post some sentinel i think
Post CV specifically to make people mad 
drowsy plank
elysians just fucking suck against yharon, a vertical mobility boss
glass arch
ngl i thought thunderhead was referring to terraspark
or like.
lightning boots i guess
idle dagger
it was seraph
echo kestrel
it's still funny to me that silva is the wing for yharon despite thematically being meant for summoner/mage
dense locust
we do not talk about god slayer wings
drowsy plank
ngl i thought thunderhead was referring to terraspark
the monkey paw curls; terraspark boots now require living shards
dense locust
PEAK
glass arch
the monkey paw curls; terraspark boots now require living shards
evil im going to kill you now
drowsy plank
dont think too hard about it
hollow shell
drowsy plank
this definetly doesn't just do the same thing to angel treads i swear 
dense locust
anyway move deific amulet to post mechs thanks
dense locust
move deific amulet to post-Yharon
hammers
glass arch
this definetly doesn't just do the same thing to angel treads i swear <:clueless...
that makes angel treads in an even weirder spot
drowsy plank
yes isn't that awesome
dense locust
that makes angel treads in an even weirder spot
wdym
drowsy plank
we should add a combined mech soul item just like galactica singularities
dense locust
we should add a combined mech soul item just like galactica singularities
dozezoze mod
drowsy plank
glass arch
they're post 3 mechs
they'd be a pre plantera upgrade to a post plantera accessory
drowsy plank
;lkdh;flgkfdjg
drowsy plank
👍 yes
glass arch
Why do the tracers not inherit harpy ring. ..
they do actually
echo kestrel
we do not talk about god slayer wings
it's funny how calvalex has something you might consider lmao
(also don't mind the recipe for tracers, I'm currently running CCR 
)
glass arch
oh because at that point its just directly adding flight time
dense locust
10% increase rather than 20%
if treads were 20% they are legitimately better than ascendant insig btw
idle dagger
messed up
drowsy plank
we should do that and then use it as propaganda to buff insig
dense locust
I want insig buffed anyway
drowsy plank
but this will be further proof it needs to be buffed
idle dagger
i think ascendent insignia is one of my least favourite accessories
dense locust
it deserves to be more than "technically viable"
idle dagger
okay I can get the flight time lmao since they're just literally wings
dense locust
rocket boots are also flight time
echo kestrel
we should do that and then use it as propaganda to buff insig
sugg insig being part of tracers recipe lmao? with the subversive intent of just wanting insig to be buffed?
drowsy plank
does this mean you can wear angel treads and tracers 🤔
glass arch
having increased flight time buffs on a pair of wings is literally just a worse idea than simply making the flight time higher
idle dagger
oh technically true
dense locust
does this mean you can wear angel treads and tracers 🤔
yes
you can mix any pair of boots
idle dagger
having increased flight time buffs on a pair of wings is literally just a worse ...
yeah
drowsy plank
sugg insig being part of tracers recipe lmao? with the subversive intent of just...
no to make it inherent the harpy ring effect so it's just better than insig
glass arch
no to make it inherent the harpy ring effect so it's just better than insig
which harpy ring effect
dense locust
20% flight time
treads is only 10%
echo kestrel
the listed values for flight time become inaccurate lol
idle dagger
I never have felt the lack of flight time when you get ascended insignia to require me to equip a whole accessory dedicated to it
drowsy plank
harpy ring not wings, and im pretty sure it doesnt inherent harpy wings effect
plus yknow it's
made with an item that contains harpy ring lol
echo kestrel
woops edited mb
glass arch
which harpy ring effect
the move speed? the flight time? if its the flight time it runs into the issue i was just talking about with extra flight time stats being slapped on wings
dense locust
we are talking about
treads
idle dagger
I think the move speed in tracers would be #cool
glass arch
we are talking about
treads
we are talking about both treads and tracers
echo kestrel
what if tracers just stopped incorporating wings and instead incorporated ascendant insignia
glass arch
evil
dense locust
what if tracers just stopped incorporating wings and instead incorporated ascend...
the good ending
I think
echo kestrel
so now you actually have a reason to put boots and wings together
idle dagger
"Infinite flight for 4 seconds" is such a funny statement
I know what it likes means by it
but it just sounds really funny
echo kestrel
the good ending
might be my next suggestion then
idle dagger
I know soaring insignia is like actually going to get a buff
i think critaquil made a suggestion about it
in uhh, balance report
dense locust
echo kestrel
yeah, saw that, sweet
echo kestrel
what if tracers just stopped incorporating wings and instead incorporated ascend...
further thoughts on this though?
lucid marsh
Now hold on
echo kestrel
Cos like my issue rn is how often when someone puts up their loadout post-ML and they are immediately recommended to drop the tracers for wings
lucid marsh
What if they had a 10x better rocket boot effect instead
dense locust
What if they had a 10x better rocket boot effect instead
let him cook
echo kestrel
What if they had a 10x better rocket boot effect instead
post-ML MOAB? YES?
idle dagger
I love the moab
echo kestrel
idle dagger
I used that thing for like way longer than I should LMAO
lucid marsh
But anyways, removing wings from tracers is basically like taking away an accessory slot, because now you need the tracers and some wings for the same power. Vanilla is balanced like this, but calamity is not
echo kestrel
same
lucid marsh
HOWEVER
glass arch
What if they had a 10x better rocket boot effect instead
according to vanilla rocket boots add around 0.7 seconds to wing flight
lucid marsh
It starts being balanced again if you add wind slot
glass arch
according to vanilla rocket boots add around 0.7 seconds to wing flight
10x better is ~7 extra seconds of flight time
lucid marsh
according to vanilla rocket boots add around 0.7 seconds to wing flight
Yes, and the upgrades add a tiny bit more. It's not significant though.
No, that's different I'm pretty sure
echo kestrel
But anyways, removing wings from tracers is basically like taking away an access...
no but consider that with ascendant as is right now, incorporated into tracers, you would have an accessory that MUST combo with wings which is nearly always a must anyway post-ML
lucid marsh
Anything that has a rocket boot effect has a separate effect of boosting wing flight time if you have any wings, with a timer Independent of the rocket effect
echo kestrel
you get the insane mobility now and on top of that extra wing time fo' yo' wing
lucid marsh
Anything that has a rocket boot effect has a separate effect of boosting wing fl...
To make up for taking away the rocket
lucid marsh
Well, it doesn't apply to tracers because they count as wings
echo kestrel
ah
lucid marsh
But it does apply to all vanilla sources of rocket boot effect
glass arch
Anything that has a rocket boot effect has a separate effect of boosting wing fl...
ok so by rocket effect you mean rocket flight?
lucid marsh
Well, it doesn't apply to tracers because they count as wings
As far as I know anyways
lucid marsh
ok so by rocket effect you mean rocket flight?
Yes. Press space to add upwards momentum, release to fall, you still take fall damage
glass arch
ok
dense locust
yharon lore item
echo kestrel
lore passives were so fun
glass arch
16 seconds of flight time give or take
16 seconds if there is no upgrade to rocket boots flight with their upgrades
and i dont know if the flight aspect gets upgraded throughout the line or if it stays at the 96 frames for good
gray bone
i love the effort that went into the formatting
umbral gazelle
I am 4 characters from the character limit because of the formatting
imagine someone made suggestion but it got cut midway because letter limit
gray bone
personally i think it's a very interesting idea, but i'm gonna let the people who actually know what they're talking about in regards to game design and balance do the talking rather than let myself ramble
frosty trellis
Knockback resistance is cool in theory
The issue with knockback resistance is that it doesn't really solve the core issue with how knockback works in terraria and why immunity is so valuable
It kills
All of your momentum
sand marlin
Yeah this is not happening with how current knockback is
frosty trellis
Like there are a number of us who use Lead Armor until at least post evil1/2 just so we don't get knockback chained or just lose all of our momentum entirely
Lead Armor is completely cracked
It's so good for that reason
sand marlin
I use it up to Skeletron 
echo kestrel
I mean, that's why I indicate that the goal is also to reach 100% resistance without always relying on KB immunity
frosty trellis
Knockback immunity on skele's head is INSANE
echo kestrel
Like, the alternative like I said was to just add more sources
But I feel like the current design is limited intentionally
sand marlin
I mean, that's why I indicate that the goal is also to reach 100% resistance wit...
Player should never be forced to invest more than once into knockback immunity
frosty trellis
More sources is better than resistance as 99% resistance is still all of your momentum is killed on hit immediately
echo kestrel
Sorry, is it not clear that 100% resistance = full KB immunity?
frosty trellis
Yes but anything less and it does nothing
sand marlin
More sources is good, just not whatever else it's saying
echo kestrel
Ah, that's fair, alright I can amend that
sand marlin
But I do believe there are already a lot more sources in hardmode, just not pre hardmode Ig?
frosty trellis
The reason to add more resistances is so there are options while building that isn't just the valor line so people have reason to use the MNJ line
echo kestrel
My goal really is to just add some build diversity, and slapping KBR on a bunch of shit means that you can also get KB immunity alongside whatever stats current accessories have
frosty trellis
But I do believe there are already a lot more sources in hardmode, just not pre ...
2 post moonlord is pathetic tho
Like ik absorber is crazy but at least give us something before post yharon that isn't a ram
sand marlin
2 post moonlord is pathetic tho
Earlier options have not dropped in viability
echo kestrel
The reason to add more resistances is so there are options while building that i...
That is very apt
sand marlin
I guess like
Only one
High Ruler in specific is a pretty good one in specific situations
frosty trellis
The only one that stays in viability post moonlord is absorber
The shields are not really worth to use outside of a decidated tank build besides maybe high ruler for provi
sand marlin
Frozen Shield used to be viable until Absorber rework took over
frosty trellis
Frozen Shield's viability still craters post moonlord
Even back before the rework
It wasn't bad but I wasn't happy hotswapping to it
sand marlin
I wouldn't say it's unviable by any means no, I used it pretty often myself until like post Polter at least
It was pretty good having that extra DR under half which still made you nearly unkillable without screwing up badly
And it's got some defense too
frosty trellis
Mmmmmmm the dr at low health I think I overvalued for the nerf especially with the current state of DR it really doesn't do anything
sand marlin
Well I speak from experience not by looking at the stats and despite the scaling it is pretty strong
frosty trellis
The defense is nice I'll give ya that but if I want a defense stick ursa sergent is the best defense stick until d.heart I'm pretty sure
sand marlin
Just like how Lead armor and Iron armor are obscenely stupid in pre boss
You just get like 30 DR or something
frosty trellis
Well yeah but you also don't have nearly as many sources at that point
And lead is more stupid because of the knockback immunity iron feels fine
sand marlin
No, that DR is not fine
frosty trellis
By the time you're post moonlord you will just naturally have a number of sources of DR, even if it isn't a ton of it, the curve still shows if you try to max it out it doesn't really work
sand marlin
Remember master death King Slime?
Yeah. You can make that guy not deal significant damage
frosty trellis
DR later on just craters in stacking you can invest a ton into it and it just doesn't do much
Not to mention DR does softcap so even if you try and stack a ton it ends up not doing anything
frosty trellis
Yeah. You can make that guy not deal significant damage
How in tf
frosty trellis
I think I had over 70 defense with all available defensive potions and with green jewel up I took 160 damage from contact what
I had to flying carpet cheese that shit
sand marlin
frosty trellis
I had to flying carpet the later phases just so it didn't slide into me at mach 10 and kill me faster than skeletron's head could
sand marlin
DR does fall flat if you try to get more of it after some point
But the peak? Peak is great.
That's why Frozen Shield's DR is useful
frosty trellis
Early game it's good (except worm scarf you're still worse than rover drive)
Later on just trying to stack it does less than just stacking defense in every way
sand marlin
You can't get that much DR normally anyway so it doesn't get scaled down badly
frosty trellis
I might just be biased from a tank build perspective
Trying to build into it felt shit
And building into defense always felt better
sand marlin
Oh building raw DR wouldn't work yeah
frosty trellis
I mean mixing it didn't feel good
Mixing felt worse than going raw defense
I stopped using worm scarf long ago because it's just dogshit
sand marlin
If you were going full defense then yes at some point defense just reduces more for weaker attacks than DR would
frosty trellis
I stopped using worm scarf long ago because it's just dogshit
Rover drive clears
sand marlin
Let's make it clear then
frosty trellis
Using rover drive more and more makes me realize that the giant shell defense nerf was warrented more and more
sand marlin
Frozen Shield is viable for balanced builds, not tank builds
echo kestrel
Okay, edited it with your insights
frosty trellis
I mean it's
Okay
In tank builds
More just due to lack of options
It's more of a hotswap target at lower health values than anything
And before anyone says regenerator builds, regenerator is giga dogshit don't use that item
echo kestrel
lmao regenerator
sand marlin
I really wanna use it but I know it's not going to work
echo kestrel
I only know it exists because of CCR
sand marlin
Regenator 
frosty trellis
In theory it's cool
It needs to be like twice as strong
And also all the accessories that benefit from lower HP values need to be like
Way better
echo kestrel
How's the current iteration of the post
frosty trellis
Well, there is also the issue of debuffs that makes regenerator suck
echo kestrel
Thanks for your feedback btw
sand marlin
Hm it looks fine as a concept, tryna think how this would play out
frosty trellis
Oh god mollusk
Do not buff mollusk dear god rooksby no
echo kestrel
ok ok lemme remove that lmao
frosty trellis
That shit is
Beyond broken lmfao
sand marlin
I mean next update is SSO anyway
frosty trellis
Yeah it's going to just die in SSO if I had to guess
But currently it's like the most broken armor set
Less set
low cargo
I spent like thousand of orbs in an hour💀
frosty trellis
But like
echo kestrel
indeed
frosty trellis
Pieces
Nothing stopping you from just
Using 1 or 2 pieces and a class helment
For melee/ranger/mage/spam rogue
Don't get the worst of the setbonus but get all of the damage and the defense
echo kestrel
I have 44 characters left if you have any ideas for thematically-appropriate KBR sources
imagine build theorycrafting for a mechanic that doesn't exist
sand marlin
You might wanna actually cut it short
echo kestrel
Oh, sure alright I can cut that part out entirely then
sand marlin
I don't think proposing more than like one or two in total overall is necessary
ripe owl
#suggestions-posting message
I saw whiskey as one of the kb res options, and my brain immediately went 「飲めば飲むほど強くなる」(literally "The more I drink, the stronger I get")
echo kestrel
Oh yeah, whiskey just stood out to me as "what alcohol would i feel the most testosterone-aligned with"
ripe owl
https://discord.com/channels/225030931008847874/699359022364491868/1299631334133...
And not just the phrase, no, my brain pulled out the Judgment's "Drunken Fist" heat action
Anyway yeah, that's a good idea overall, because while plain kb res is good it's also kinda boring and overpowered
distant gyro
i love sniping suggestions in advance (calcium pot)
ripe owl
Yeah wasn't calcium killed?
distant gyro
non
ripe owl
Wait what happened then
distant gyro
nothing
echo kestrel
i love sniping suggestions in advance (calcium pot)
oh no, does this mean it's not going through?
ripe owl
No that doesn't mean it
golden sonnet
i love sniping suggestions in advance (calcium pot)
Is this a for sure thing? Or just possibility
distant gyro
its not done but i dont think anyone opposed the idea so its like probably yeah
echo kestrel
frosty trellis
50% kb resistance? I'm still using lead armor until statigel
Unless I'm summoner or stealth rogue then fuck me
gray bone
lead armour my beloved <3
echo kestrel
yeah uh having non-100% kb resistance on a single item really...doesn't do anything lmao
distant gyro
if it's for free then it does do something
echo kestrel
true! well then, I guess i'm still hoping it gets to voting
golden sonnet
its not done but i dont think anyone opposed the idea so its like probably yeah
glad it least it does something now, even if I would personally just prefer it removed/merged with bounding
distant gyro
also top 10 coder nitpicks ever but the part you can modify is Player.HurtModifiers
echo kestrel
I shall edit accordingly
Was just going off of this bit that Cog found
Thank you for the feedback 
median scaffold
Oh, nice to hear that. Thanks
...oh god, how many suggestions are there??
7 (not counting mine)
Huh, you all got a funny morning this time, I see...
echo kestrel
Yeah we got busy
median scaffold
Even stuff like the 17% from worm scarf
Actually, Worm Scarf is even worse! It is 14% and not 17%
#suggestions-posting message
Wouldn't that also make hell Providence absolute...?
crude geode
thank god
median scaffold
Okay, that makes sense
#suggestions-posting message
That's a pretty damn good suggestion, I like it
...hm, I should repost another suggestion
lucid marsh
Would it be reasonable to suggest all the ores to be added to base world gen, instead of spawning throughout progression?
crude geode
sounds extremely annoying
lucid marsh
I say this because I'm pretty sure the only reason the hardmode ores aren't in the world from the start is because red wanted compatibility with old worlds
crude geode
imagine building a hellevator and auric ore is just in your way
lucid marsh
Oh, I guess it could be
median scaffold
sounds extremely annoying
I agree
lucid marsh
I wouldn't mind digging around things
crude geode
"oops, build your entire hellevator two blocks to the left instead please"
lucid marsh
Just add a stop or something
I do think it would be ok to do for some ores
Like cryonic or perennial
median scaffold
I wouldn't mind digging around things
Imagine you mine, but you're stopped by auric ore
Imagine you mine just a little bit to the left, but you're stopped by uelibloom ore
Imagine you mine in the jungle, but you're stopped by a plenty of chlorophyte ore
...do you see the annoyance?
lucid marsh
I can see how it would be annoying if you had too many of them
But not how it would be bad if you just had some of them
median scaffold
Well, what ores do you want to add besides cryonic and perennial? (I disagree with the latter, tho)
lucid marsh
It can be fun to find an obstacle you can't overcome, then return to it later with the means to utilize it
violet zephyr
Chlorophyte would take over the world.
lucid marsh
Uelibloom is planned to be replaced. Perennial is planned to get a special biome
violet zephyr
Also, Cryonic would be minable without Cryogen if this happens, so it needs to stay as appearing after Cryogen's defeat.
median scaffold
We can't suggest about the future content, can we?
violet zephyr
(There is also a lore reason why, but that's not relevant for Cryonic)
Uelibloom would also be usable if it weren't locked.
And so would the Hardmode Ores (Cobalt/Palladium, Mythril/Orichalcum, Titanium/Adamantite).
median scaffold
It could be made so you can't mine ores before defeating its respective boss, but... why does it exist in the first place, then?
frozen hornet
yeah
lucid marsh
I think:
Cryonic, but only in certain parts of the ice biome, maybe the deepest layers. Make it impossible to mine without killing cryogen
Perennial, but only in its special biome
The 6 classic hardmode ores, maybe?
median scaffold
For the 3rd point, disable hardmode ore progression rework
lucid marsh
It could be made so you can't mine ores before defeating its respective boss, bu...
Flavor and the ability to mark where it is so you can find it later for rare ones. I would do this for titanium if I could
frozen hornet
That is 6 unminable ores in the caverns
lucid marsh
Alright, remove those 6, replace with auric
violet zephyr
This would make caving shit.
Imagine trying to make a hallway or hellavator and you run into Cobalt or Cryonic or even fucking Auric.
lucid marsh
I just like the idea of having an ore you can't mine for a long time, to make caving more of a challenge and add to the satisfaction of finally coming back to it at the end of the game
frozen hornet
Even with silva or something auric really hurts
violet zephyr
You can get rid of lava with buckets.
frozen hornet
yes
lucid marsh
Sure, but it's easier to go around it
frozen hornet
can't get rid of auric
violet zephyr
Lava pools exist and block your hellevator
And for a hellavator, you can just mine from a distance.
I'm not going to be rude or anything but
This is just an awful idea and you are not bringing any good reasons why this should exist other than "it would feel cool".
echo kestrel
y'know, could also suggest moving generation of one of the ores to the planetoids
lucid marsh
I guess you're right
violet zephyr
And if you do want an ore that acts like a "wow i can mine this now!", Chlorophyte is right there.
lucid marsh
Exodium...
echo kestrel
like, okay, who here actually fucking mines out the entire copper planetoid they have
median scaffold
It is a feature?
lucid marsh
Seriously, why does exodium exist when luminite has the exact same niche
median scaffold
...that's a good question, actually
lucid marsh
Suggestion time
frozen hornet
planetoid ores,life crystals and gems are for super early game players who happen to get a grav pot early
echo kestrel
Seriously, why does exodium exist when luminite has the *exact* same niche
i'm quite literally grasping at straws here but maybe because it flows into needing to craft a lunar pickaxe so that you have it ready later for the crystyl crusher lmao
lucid marsh
...why? You already need a lunar pickaxe for uelibloom and bonus luminite from the planetoids that spawn after ML
lucid marsh
There is no purpose then
frozen hornet
Death to another old material
violet zephyr
It makes the Luminite Planetoids less stupid looking.
frozen hornet
True
distant gyro
i mean if every material is assigned to 1 tier of boss we would have so much less materials
lucid marsh
Good
violet zephyr
No more Spectre or Shroomite.
lucid marsh
Now hold on, those at least have different obtainment methods and themes
frozen hornet
I think the issue is they're thematically really similar
Weird space rock and weird space rock 2
lucid marsh
Exodium and luminite have the exact same obtainment methods and theme
distant gyro
No more Spectre or Shroomite.
or vial of venom. or nanites
lucid marsh
Except one is silvery green and one is black
distant gyro
or living shard
violet zephyr
Now hold on, those at *least* have different obtainment methods and themes
Too bad. You said it would be good if there were only one material per boss.
umbral gazelle
add exodia card weapon that can be crafted from exodium and it has limbillion damage
frozen hornet
true
lucid marsh
Peak
I do truly think that living shards, perennial, and chlorophyte have the same issue
frozen hornet
5 exodia minion weapons where you need one of each for them to do anything
violet zephyr
@lucid marsh The title of your suggestion and the actual suggestion contradict.
lucid marsh
They're all plant themed materials at the same tier
violet zephyr
Chlorophyte is Pre-Plantera.
echo kestrel
I think the issue is they're thematically really similar
Weird space rock and we...
and weirdly enough space rock 2 needs space rock 1 pickaxes to mine it...if i'm remembering correctly
lucid marsh
Changed it
frozen hornet
and weirdly enough space rock 2 needs space rock 1 pickaxes to mine it...if i'm ...
Yes
lucid marsh
Chlorophyte is Pre-Plantera.
Close enough! Make it like bloodstone and ruinous souls
median scaffold
Close enough! Make it like bloodstone and ruinous souls
Tbh, that can work
lucid marsh
Reaver items should be made from chlorophyte and terra shards, and perennial should be removed
Life alloy can use either terra shards or chlorophyte
frozen hornet
You can suggest that
echo kestrel
Yep the sugg checks out, like I can understand if Exodium was the rogue ore or something, but looking at all the recipes in game, you can straight up replace everything with luminite/luminite bars
frozen hornet
Decent chance it gets denied though
distant gyro
near guaranteed
lucid marsh
I know it will
lucid marsh
They're too attached to their stupid 4 different plant materials
echo kestrel
Like, ffs Exodus wings aren't even crafted with Exodium!
echo kestrel
Far as I'm aware perennial weapons are all dying (yippee)
not my perennial feralthorn claymore! 
at least we still have hellkite
distant gyro
destruction of content is inherently destructive but some content are irredeemably unable to exist
median scaffold
Me, when I destroy content (less stuff to translate, yippie):
distant gyro
if you destroy everything pending for reworks at the moment i think the mod would actually have like 2 bosses and 100 items
violet zephyr
Like, ffs **Exod**us wings aren't even crafted with Exodium!
Just because they start with the same letters doesn't mean they are based on the same thing.
distant gyro
you no longer have the calamity mod
there needs to be a balance struck in removing items
echo kestrel
Just because they start with the same letters doesn't mean they are based on the...
yeah...... you got a point there 
lucid marsh
Prominent plant based materials in calamity + terraria:
Jungle spores, vines
Chlorophyte
Perennial
Planty mush
Terra shards
Life alloy?
Uelibloom
Silva stuff???
Too fucking many plants!
Some of them are even in the SAME TIER!
distant gyro
what does silva stuff even mean
distant gyro
there is no material
hollow verge
what is terra shards
violet zephyr
what does silva stuff even mean
Plant Mush, I believe.
violet zephyr
So it is.
frozen hornet
Also this isn't too different from fire stuff
distant gyro
also life alloy is definitely not prominently plant
hollow verge
also how is life alloy a plant thing
frozen hornet
Hellstone, brimstone, profaned fire, yharon fire, scal fire
hollow verge
also if were counting plant stuff. literally everything u can garden lol
plants are a big part of life
distant gyro
and if im ngl yes theres a lot of plants but plants is a big branch
frozen hornet
And the funny amounts of fire debuffs
frozen hornet
Yeah
hollow verge
while trapper bulbs were bloat i domt think having a lot of plants is an issue
distant gyro
if you generalize them you will get a shit ton of stuff that's just natural
frozen hornet
I don't think it's as big a deal as you think
distant gyro
water is a big branch too
hollow verge
what is terra shards
what is terra shards tho
distant gyro
do you ever just think about how the majority of calamity biomes are aquatic
frozen hornet
what is terra shards tho
Living shards
distant gyro
lets just remove them!
lucid marsh
I am a lot more concerned about "4 plant materials at almost the same tier"
hollow verge
Living shards
thats not a plant
frozen hornet
looks like it
median scaffold
thats not a plant
It's from a plant, tbf
violet zephyr
Theres so many cold stuff!!
Boreal Wood
Snow
Ice
Cryonic
Flinx Fur
Permafrost Stuff????¿??
echo kestrel
do you ever just think about how the majority of calamity biomes are aquatic
i love skinny dipping in the brimstone crags
lucid marsh
Than just plant materials in general
lucid marsh
Theres so many cold stuff!!
Boreal Wood
Snow
Ice
Cryonic
Flinx Fur
Permafrost St...
You joke, but this used to be a bigger problem. Cryogen dropped bars
echo kestrel
You joke, but this used to be a bigger problem. Cryogen dropped bars
there's a joke here somewhere
🗣️ 🔥
hollow verge
You joke, but this used to be a bigger problem. Cryogen dropped bars
his battle song already does drop bars 🔥🔥🔥
lucid marsh
TRUE
violet zephyr
Cryogen dropping bars while Permafrost gives a beat.
hollow verge
are there plans to increase the size of cryo ore veins
yea
lucid marsh
hollow verge
a sugg got approced fpr that
sand marlin
If you want exodium to be removed you should try making the suggestion actually say something other than "why does this exist" and "it's pointless"
hollow verge
iirc it was alr in changelogs
but. look to be sure. its 6am and im in an insomnia fit
lucid marsh
https://youtu.be/rEtEXBDr4yk
Cryogen dropping bars
echo kestrel
a sugg got approced fpr that
distant gyro
his battle song already does drop bars 🔥🔥🔥
lowkey does. though
lucid marsh
Ok wait idea
violet zephyr
No more ideas.
lucid marsh
You know blood samples and rotten matter? Why not merge them into one material and add a few tissue samples and shadow scales to the recipes to the items they made to differentiate them?
The bosses they come from already drop those items anyways
distant gyro
why though
hollow verge
You know blood samples and rotten matter? Why not merge them into one material a...
i had a sugg about letting them be convertible into each other that didnt get to dev :(
violet zephyr
Better idea...
Remove the materials outright!
It is only used for two unique items.
hollow verge
what if we deleted calamity mod
violet zephyr
It is only used for two unique items.
Their respective Rogue glove and respective Boss Summon.
hollow verge
u van use em to xraft the weapons which is where my convert sugg came in
violet zephyr
Or we could go the other route, and remove the weapon drops from the boss.
distant gyro
yada 1 item less is better but the point of evil biomes having split items is for the immersion of literally getting different items for the world state you get
violet zephyr
Or we could go the other route, and remove the weapon drops from the boss.
This way, you only get the material, and gurantee which item you want.
hollow verge
chat is cooking meth tonight
violet zephyr
Meth is a tasty treat.
violet zephyr
This way, you only get the material, and gurantee which item you want.
Only problem with this is, as I mentioned, the material only crafts two unique items that aren't weapons.
hollow verge
i cabt tell if these ideas of delete x material is sarcasm or not
violet zephyr
i cabt tell if these ideas of delete x material is sarcasm or not
I'm not being sarcastic. Xbxbxb123 is either sarcastic or stupid.
hollow verge
you both seem sarcastic based on the absurdity of your suggs
violet zephyr
Mine has flaws simply because of its current implementation.
lucid marsh
It's a bit of both
My suggestion about exodium is real
My suggestion about plant materials is half serious out of annoyance but also knowing it will never succeed
distant gyro
i think with murky paste, trapper bulb, dba, cores of eleum/havoc/sunlight removed we are good on material removals for now
lucid marsh
I was responsible for those removals btw!
hollow verge
reminds me of the ppl debating Galactica signatories earlier
lucid marsh
Well, partly
hollow verge
mmm. my phone didn't get that right
violet zephyr
reminds me of the ppl debating Galactica signatories earlier
Signatories.
violet zephyr
sibgularotied
Sibgularotied.
hollow verge
singularity s
lucid marsh
Oh wait, cores are removed? Cool
hollow verge
that's what you get. take it or leave it
hollow verge
Oh wait, cores are removed? Cool
yeah
violet zephyr
Singularities.
median scaffold
hollow verge
Singularities.
yeah my phone disagreed
hollow verge
it is off. i use swipe a lot though
violet zephyr
what
median scaffold
Turn off Auto-Correct.
Ni
gray bone
if i turned off autocorrect my typing would be an even greater travesty
violet zephyr
if i turned off autocorrect my typing would be an even greater travesty
We know.
❓
distant gyro
i dont use autocorrect so you get to witness all my typos in their raw glory
hollow verge
what
swype? whatever. when y click and drag over the letters and let go when y finish a word and it assembles the word based on the swiping
violet zephyr
<:nifufu:651473812139016226> ❓
I think they meant "No", which is very ironic.
violet zephyr
swype? whatever. when y click and drag over the letters and let go when y finish...
can you like
no
violet zephyr
Yes.
hollow verge
that sucks
violet zephyr
Ive just disabled autocorrct and and actually it isnt that bad
And and.
hollow verge
i only do that for rp posts when i use funny words that swipe doesnt know
violet zephyr
gray bone
violet zephyr
:)
gray bone
In my defence, thats the worst its ever been i think
hollow verge
when i type the letters my writing goes toimmediate shit
echo kestrel
How do I figure out the list of enemies that apply the distorted debuff? Or is it literally just Alien Queen?
hollow verge
it's just her afaik
distant gyro
i think you just have to use the Special:WhatLinksHere page on the wiki
lucid marsh
I type with my thumbs really fast and mess up every other word, then auto correct fixes my mistakes like 2/3s of the time
distant gyro
yes that is a page that is criminally underused
sand marlin
i think you just have to use the Special:WhatLinksHere page on the wiki
I was looking for that function a bit ago actually
lucid marsh
And also the android Gboard suggestion fix bar helps
frozen hornet
i think with murky paste, trapper bulb, dba, cores of eleum/havoc/sunlight remov...
Cores are removed?
distant gyro
I was looking for that function a bit ago actually
its super useful
top 10 wiki page lifesavers
lucid marsh
Oh that reminds me
violet zephyr
How do I figure out the list of enemies that apply the distorted debuff? Or is i...
Ceaseless Void.
sand marlin
In vanilla it seems to be Alien Queen exclusive
hollow verge
Ceaseless Void.
no
lucid marsh
Searching for a vanilla item on calamity wiki goes to the vanilla wiki. But what if that item has a change from vanilla? It should go to the vanilla changes page instead
violet zephyr
Yes.
hollow verge
Searching for a vanilla item on calamity wiki goes to the vanilla wiki. But what...
yes :) welcome to my hate
violet zephyr
On contact.
echo kestrel
yes that is a page that is criminally underused
thank you for this
sand marlin
CV no longer has contact 
distant gyro
yeah if you get hit by cv itself you still get distorted
hollow verge
bring it up in #wiki-discussion
lucid marsh
Funny thought
distant gyro
is it??
violet zephyr
CV no longer has contact <:clueless:895938729275957288>
Doesn't it do contact damage during the suck in?
hollow verge
i was gonna say ive never gotten it from cv
lucid marsh
You get distorted all the time when you are in the distortion dimension
sand marlin
Doesn't it do contact damage during the suck in?
Actually yeah it does do contact between orb phases
echo kestrel
2.0.4.003:
- Now inflicts Distorted for 1 second on contact.
But I always had gravity normalizer soo
lucid marsh
(but only in GFB)
hollow verge
the succ phase
violet zephyr
i was gonna say ive never gotten it from cv
Because you have access to Gravity Normalizer potions.
hollow verge
Because you have access to Gravity Normalizer potions.
i dont use them outside of alien queen
violet zephyr
Same could be said with Vortex Pillar.
sand marlin
My philosophy with debuffs is simple
hollow verge
but tbh 1 second is not long enough to be noticeable so
violet zephyr
My philosophy with debuffs is simple
"If they're annoying, fuck them"
lucid marsh
What if everything that inflicted a debuff had like, a minigame that pops up to see how much of an effect it has
frozen hornet
Qhar
weary bane
i think with murky paste, trapper bulb, dba, cores of eleum/havoc/sunlight remov...
guess i'm gonna have to add that to the item changes sheet
lucid marsh
Instead of taking 20 fire damage per second, a bunch of flame projectiles are summoned around you that you now have to dodge Undertale style
But unlike normal attacks they're centered on you kinda
violet zephyr
What if everything that inflicted a debuff had like, a minigame that pops up to ...
What if everytime I read your statements, I lose another brain ce- oh wait. That already happens.
lucid marsh
I know, I'm terminally stupid and it's contagious, you're welcome
violet zephyr
Sounds fun enough ig
It sounds annoying due to it getting in the way of a boss' attacks.
frozen hornet
Was about to mention that yeah
frozen hornet
It's like infernum cal clone hexes but worse
weary bane
why are the cores even getting removed?
gray bone
It's like infernum cal clone hexes but worse
i actually quite like most of the hexes
just not the one that spawns the little shit that shoots stuff at you
frozen hornet
why are the cores even getting removed?
I assume the new recipe for core of calamity is essences+ecto+ashes
lucid marsh
The boss activates a special phase of sorts, like that one Providence flame circle attack that used to have the healing flames
frozen hornet
actually idk
lucid marsh
Or alternatively
lucid marsh
I don't remember lol
frozen hornet
just not the one that spawns the little shit that shoots stuff at you
I was talking about that one yea
lucid marsh
Alternatively: something like electrified would spawn a thunder cloud that circles above your head and periodically strikes with lightning, and you take damage if you don't time dashes away from it
Since it's supposed to replace damaging debuffs, you're meant to get hit by it, but exactly how much you get hit is a matter of skill
Does that concept make sense?
Am I stupid?
echo kestrel
having goozma divine gargooptuar Touch it! flashbacks
violet zephyr
Yes and yes.
lucid marsh
What
frozen hornet
Assuming the boss is designed around the lightning existing it could be fun
Storm weaver for example
But at that point why not just have it as a normal attack
Instead of a debuff
violet zephyr
Attacks doing something more only if you get hit by it isn't something I've seen from a Terraria boss before.
lucid marsh
Because it is meant as a secondary sort of dynamic attack phase that is triggered as a result of getting hit
Here's how this could work in the context of the DoG fight
Suppose instead of a high damage fireball from his mouth, he shoots an unstable portal that sucks you into the distortion. Once there, you have to dodge a gauntlet of attacks before the portal collapses and spits you back out
Certain phases could make this harder to avoid, so you have to deal with it at least once, but exactly how many times you have to deal with the attack is skill based
I'm a big sucker for bullet hells. Can you tell?
Supreme calamitas is my favorite boss
frozen hornet
It would be hard to make attacks flow together if you can randomly just get sent to shadow hell for 10 seconds
if there's nothing else happening during the attack maybe
lucid marsh
Since when do melee attacks flow together anyways?
Also it's not random, it is specifically as a result of you making a mistake
hollow verge
I'm a big sucker for bullet hells. Can you tell?
just go play touhou then. dont make calamity any worse
lucid marsh
Worse?
hollow verge
yes ❤️
lucid marsh
It's good though?
hollow verge
bullet hells would make it worse ❤️
lucid marsh
Why?
hollow verge
what if we made calamity deeply unfun
lucid marsh
Also it's not random, it is specifically as a result of you making a mistake
Although, if you wanted to make things even more interesting, you could reward the player with an extra opportunity to deal damage for triggering but then successfully dodging all the damage for such an event
I don't understand what makes bullet hell unfun
Complex attack patterns are cool and interesting to learn, as opposed to just running and flying away from a boss really fast
hollow verge
I don't understand what makes bullet hell unfun
it is okay.
lucid marsh
Am I wrong? Isn't it more engaging to dodge a gauntlet of attacks and then get a chance to attack instead of just running and shooting in a single direction?
hollow verge
yeah youre wrong
frozen hornet
Also it's not random, it is specifically as a result of you making a mistake
Yeah well people don't choose when they get hit
It's not actually random but it's close
I see how it could work but it would be a gimmick that needs the boss to be designed around it
And is not something you can suggest here
lucid marsh
I suppose that's fair
lucid marsh
yeah youre wrong
You still haven't explained why I'm wrong
lucid marsh
And is not something you can suggest here
Yeah...
frozen hornet
Am I wrong? Isn't it more engaging to dodge a gauntlet of attacks and then get a...
This is just scal
frozen hornet
You could give clone a similar thing ig
lucid marsh
The less the optimal strategy is to run away and shoot behind you, the better
gray bone
Yeah. Scal is the best boss in the mod
that's subjective
lucid marsh
Sure, I guess
How about "most strategically complex"?
The optimal strategies for most bosses, especially DoG and exo mechs, are to move in a predictable straight line or zigzag pattern, and shoot behind you, like I said
Roughly speaking
hollow verge
You still haven't explained why I'm wrong
why would i waste my breath explaining how converting calamity into entirely/majority bullet hells wouldnt be a welcome change to someone who's sitting here glazing them? that just sounds frustrating for both of us. id rather shitpost and move on. you should just play infernum or whatever
frozen hornet
How about "most strategically complex"?
This would be more accurate
lucid marsh
We can disagree and still understand each other
frozen hornet
My favourite part of scal is the box letting me hyperfocus on decorating a small space
That alone makes her my favourite boss of all time
Terraria boss at least
lucid marsh
Hehe
frozen hornet
I don't play much other games
lucid marsh
How would you rank Minecraft's End island in it's ability to let you decorate a small space mid fight?
frozen hornet
Not the same
harsh echo
To me, Scal is the best boss because of the atmosphere tbh
crude geode
Even so, I really was curious what makes a boss fun to you
What makes a boss fun is going to be different for each person, hence why some people like old duke dash spam or exos in general
frozen hornet
I meant decorating the arena before the fight even begins and fighting her in a fully decorated arena
lucid marsh
What makes a boss fun is going to be different for each person, hence why some p...
Yeah. I understand. I want to see other people's points of view
frozen hornet
I would hate trying to build while she's exploding my ass
This is also why I don't like ender dragon
lucid marsh
I would hate trying to build while she's exploding my ass
I thought you were being funny about it. Not sure why
crude geode
Thus each boss should have some different design philosophy. Crabulon and Perfs for example are two wildly different fights but are still competent in their own metric
lucid marsh
To me, Scal is the best boss because of the atmosphere tbh
I agree! The music is top notch
frozen hornet
I thought you were being funny about it. Not sure why
Don't understand
lucid marsh
When you said "hyper focus on decorating a small area" I imagined you were rushing around the arena building decorations while being shot at, and calamitas looking at you baffled
lucid marsh
It was a really funny thought
frozen hornet
Which I have done
Like thrice
I loove making boss arenas and scal lets me go all out on one space
frozen hornet
When you said "hyper focus on decorating a small area" I imagined you were rushi...
This reminds me of the build a desert house while nohitting desert scourge challenge in nohitcord a while back
hollow verge
Even so, I really was curious what makes a boss fun to you
its a balance of numbers, strategy, and difficulty. note that im talking abt rev+exp difficulty
i skip exos/scal on most playthrus because theyre at a point of difficulty where its not enjoyable. dying and making little progress is not fun when 90% of the fights feel like panic and rng anyway. theres no room for recovery, re-evaluating, and redoing. you just die if u fuck up and have to start over. thats Not Fun. defeating them isnt rewarding, its just relief.
i think providence is a pretty good fight. difficult, does big damage but you have gaps to recover, the guardians phase is 100% better than any desperation phase ever. i like pbg a lot. i think EoL is a good balance of difficulty and numbers too. especially when you figure out how to kite her attacks.
i cant take dog seriously anymore but he's being reworked so ill not touch on that much. but tldr i dont think he's that great. infernum is worse but i will not get started on it.
deus is my fav boss but it has nothing to do with the fight itself. i do think it's a cool fight though.
hholy fuck its 7am and i still cant sleep
lucid marsh
Huh, interesting
crude geode
Massive agree on exos and SCal
hollow verge
brain of cthulhu is a good fight tbqh idk why ppl hate it
frozen hornet
I used to end playthroughs on yharon because scal was too hard
Ig I just got better nowadays
crude geode
SCal has the justification of just being mostly bullet hells with the veneer of a fight but exos just kinda feels messy
lucid marsh
I find exos, empress, Providence, and DoG to be awful and really difficult, but I find Scal and Yharon to be hard but like something I can overcome with enough practice and focus
hollow verge
uh. what else.
leviana isnt great. but maybe i just hate the music that much.
hollow verge
I find exos, empress, Providence, and DoG to be awful and really difficult, but ...
empress is probably my easiest boss bc of how easy she is to kite. i mean i still die if im reckless but the telegraphing really smoothens it
frozen hornet
Exos was fun when I turned my brain half off and just dodged without any real strategy
lucid marsh
I am bad at learning things like that I guess
hollow verge
SCal has the justification of just being mostly bullet hells with the veneer of ...
i dont even mind scal being bullet hell, esp bc calclone sets it up. you know whats coming. but i wish the numbers were a liiiittle bit lower
crude geode
Agree
lucid marsh
Exos need to put you in a box like Scal, and be rebalanced around that
hollow verge
exos is overstimulation
frozen hornet
box would have to be way bigger
lucid marsh
i dont even mind scal being bullet hell, esp bc calclone sets it up. you know wh...
I can understand that
lucid marsh
exos is overstimulation
I agree with this
lucid marsh
box would have to be way bigger
Make them way slower instead
hollow verge
if we want my real hot take, calclone's song is like. miles better than scal's song which is mid at best
crude geode
I still prefer when SCal was classified as a super boss because her and exo really do feel like them
crude geode
Like the jump from Yharon to them is such a massive spike
lucid marsh
if we want my real hot take, calclone's song is like. miles better than scal's s...
Huh?? I love both of them, but I don't really understand this take. Suit yourself, I suppose.
north oracle
Good conversation sugg chat but why is it here
lucid marsh
This is where the cool people go
hollow verge
Huh?? I love both of them, but I don't really understand this take. Suit yoursel...
because my brain likes the sounds different to you
frozen hornet
nuh uh
crude geode
Xb wanted to make a sugg about more bullet hells
lucid marsh
I knew I couldn't, but I wanted to talk about it anyways
crude geode
This channel is just design discussion in disguise tbfh
hollow verge
Good conversation sugg chat but why is it here
xb said add bullet hells to every boss and i went "bullet hells suck so No." and they pressed me for why and we derailed from there
north oracle
If you're actually discussing a sugg sure
If it's just another excuse to say "I hate modded terraria boss no.58" please take it elsewhere
frozen hornet
THIS time it's I love modded terraria boss no. 58
lucid marsh
Also, about music: I know this is an unpopular opinion but I don't like any of the music from the mod that isn't by dokuro. It all feels melodically stagnant and predictable. You always know exactly what's coming next, there's no buildup and resolution of tension, it's just a few phrases repeated
hollow verge
but boss no.58 sucks!!!!!!! /silly
harsh echo
what style fight will yharim be?
hollow verge
we dont know
lucid marsh
Ok I think I'll stop now
frozen hornet
wait 5 years
hollow verge
cab we talk about my vernal pass sugg. im proud of my boy.
frozen hornet
They will release at the same time
lucid marsh
cab
frozen hornet
Pilksomg is just waiting for yharim update to be done...
hollow verge
im on mobile and half asleep and most my vision is blurry.
lucid marsh
Same
hollow verge
you'll have to live with my typos
lucid marsh
It's 4 am. I may sleep...
hollow verge
7am insomnia 🔥🔥
hollow verge
cab we talk about my vernal pass sugg. im proud of my boy.
i still have not had a dev tell me it's an oversight issue
so i am convinced this isn't that.
crude geode
Wait why is the knockback Sugg not just “add more immunity”
hollow verge
and im rooting for him im sick of fucking skeletons in my jungle
crude geode
If you just add more “resistances” people are still gonna default to shield because it’s broken af
hollow verge
If you just add more “resistances” people are still gonna default to shield beca...
yeah it seems like a lot of work when it could just be immunities
since. most people will be shieldpilled regardless
hollow verge
you may as well make it actually worth your while to not run shield
crude geode
Like one of the biggest reasons to not choose statis is because of lacking the dash through and also you need knockback immunity
lucid marsh
Almost all the melee weapons are swords, when an axe or pickaxe is just as useful in real life
It would be thematically interesting to have a battle pickaxe
lucid marsh
I was about to say, If accidentally mining is an issue, have separate right click functions
crude geode
The Crystyl Crusher when it
lucid marsh
Or if you must, just have the item be thematically not a sword even if it acts like one
distant gyro
If you just add more “resistances” people are still gonna default to shield beca...
i think this is a real point though
valor line being recommended for the entire game is really just because its like one of the most powerful accessories in the game
hollow verge
yeah id rather things just offer full immunity, not. partial resistance.
distant gyro
dash, kb immunity, and defense
crude geode
The combination of knockback immunity and ram is just really difficult to give up
hollow verge
if you want to suggest i don't run shield for these other accessories, then give me full immune
crude geode
It’s so hard for dash to compete
distant gyro
if you had kb immunity as a single accessory i dont think anyone would take the offer
that late into the game
crude geode
It’s why people don’t really care for single debuff immunity items
Bc giving up a slot for it feels horrid
hollow verge
plaguebringer armor can afford to not run shield bc it comes with a ram dash. so you just need kb immunity
plague reaper? the summoner one
hollow verge
Bc giving up a slot for it feels horrid
literally only deus (infected jewel), ml (cshell), and prov (cshell) do i bother with.
prov gets fixed by elysian aegis, dog gets fixed by asgard aegis
crude geode
And even then those have other effects. It’s why nobody cared for pre-rework abaddon and tbh I still don’t even know if it’s worth caring about
crude geode
Ye
hollow verge
yeah no it's trash still. i mean ig if calclone is fucking you up that bad, use it. and ranger can run the dfolly drop on yharon for great benefit
dragon cells or whatevwr
but we're reaching into more niche scenarios
so i think the kb sugg is. it should just suggest full immunity. no one will even look at these things over shield unless they offer full immunity.
distant gyro
actually that was the one time people cared
hollow verge
actually that was the one time people cared
abaddon or the stem cells or whatever
distant gyro
when dragonfire was 36 dps on the player for 10 seconds and at that point yeah the folly drop that made you immune was probably your best bet
hollow verge
yeah
crude geode
@echo kestrel I don’t see the point in giving knockback resistance when knockback immunity is so much more accessible from a item you’re almost guaranteed to have on due to it’s other properties (ram, defense value). If you want it to matter give it to more than just defensive items (statis’ stuff pls) and make it full, because we’ve seen how these niche resistances work out through stuff like the fall damage resistance on frog leg and statis (it doesn’t matter bc you can get immunity)
distant gyro
but thats like the problem
you dont want every player to run the same 1 accessory for that boss everytime
hollow verge
i still get tempted to use the stem cells for yharon
gaunt needle
Remove all defensive buffs from ram shield line
suggestion description
crude geode
So true
crude geode
Probably not, and that’s the funny thing
gaunt needle
just so no one gets their KB immunity
crude geode
True
distant gyro
ram iframes go back to 4 imo 
crude geode
Ram is so disgusting
crude geode
I like it too but it being on one accessory line throughout progression is polarizing
gaunt needle
I like it too but it being on one accessory line throughout progression is polar...
1 accessory line, 1 standalone accessory and 2 armor sets!!!
languid pollen
deep diver is just used until u get valor.
ornate inbetween there but yeah
hollow verge
the plague armor dash goes hard
languid pollen
deep diver isnt as polarizing imo cuz the dash is so short
crude geode
Statis should have it in some way, like you just remove the damage from it (I say knowing that the damage from rams is inconsequential af)
echo kestrel
<@122890537933078529> I don’t see the point in giving knockback resistance when ...
I mean, that's why I expressly stated the goal would be to achieve full KB immunity via 100% KB resistance, and not "just having KBR is cool". Ideally, if it were implemented, there would be enough sources of % KBR so that you could mix and match potions, accessories, and armor that would total to 100% or more KBR so that like what Altix said, you dont want every player to run the same 1 accessory for that boss every time
crude geode
So are you saying to nerf the kb immunity from shield?
echo kestrel
So are you saying to nerf the kb immunity from shield?
No read it again
crude geode
Or like what?
distant gyro
i just think rams should be like 6 or 9 iframes instead of 12
echo kestrel
It's an additional system so that you have more freedom to choose your source of knockback immunity instead of just the current options we have right now
distant gyro
that way its a little more tight on what you can ram
hollow verge
I mean, that's why I expressly stated the goal would be to achieve full KB immun...
it'd be more encouraging if it just offered full immunity though. why would i bother stacking all this stuff when i could have shield? i do agree that things like turtle armor agould have kb immunity, but i think it should have full immunity. not a weird stacking thing that's easily countered by The Most Prevalent Item
echo kestrel
The current options will keep their knocback immunity
crude geode
People are still just going to default to the easiest thing though
hollow verge
^
crude geode
Which is already something they want
echo kestrel
That's true, but as we can see from the current options, they give it out sparingly
And because they give it out sparingly
hollow verge
yeah maybe the sugg can be add it to more stuff.
echo kestrel
We get the problem of "you dont want every player to run the same 1 accessory for that boss everytime"
crude geode
They can still do that with full kb immunity, but I don’t see the point in having one line completely make you immune for one slot, while you have to stack other things to match
distant gyro
i think realistically calcium potion is the one item i think it works on and thats why i chose it
(also because calcium potion rn is like silly)
hollow verge
i think turt armor is fair
median scaffold
crude geode
i think realistically calcium potion is the one item i think it works on and tha...
Agreed, bc if you just put kb immunity on a potion the entire mechanic disappears
crude geode
I still would prefer calcium’s removal bc there’s so many ways of deleting fall damage already but like whateves
hollow verge
calcium most useless item
it is impressive
i don't think there should be a kb immune potion. but i think it should just be on more stuff.
echo kestrel
They can still do that with full kb immunity, but I don’t see the point in havin...
Did you read the title? It's an alternate method, you can still achieve KB immunity with the current options. But now with KBR you would be able to achieve KB immunity without always needing to rely on a single accessory line or singular solution. Do you want build diversity without having to just slap KB immunity on an item and needing to nerf it because KB immunity is high value? I think this is how we get it.
hollow verge
i don't think there should be a kb immune potion. but i think it should just be ...
put it on ursa seargent. youll get a real good ankh shield rival
sargeabt
whatever
crude geode
Close enough
gray bone
good night
echo kestrel
I made my suggestion with the understanding that KB immunity is super limited for a reason and so this is a way around that, but creative, and it rewards smart loadout building
crude geode
Gn
hollow verge
good luck woth the knockback
crude geode
KB immunity becomes far less valuable the more things you put it on
The alternate path becomes those other accessories instead of just Asgard’s line
echo kestrel
KB immunity becomes far less valuable the more things you put it on
Actually, that begs the question then, why isn't it on more items? Did the devs just forget it's a thing?
distant gyro
I still would prefer calcium’s removal bc there’s so many ways of deleting fall ...
considering ancient bone dust is a staying item and to be developed, calcium potion would be an item to stay as a resource sink, so in that department i think its better to have it around (and improved)
crude geode
Ah fair enough
crude geode
Actually, that begs the question then, why isn't it on more items? Did the devs ...
Tbfh idk the design decision behind not having kb immunity on more things. It’s not really something that’s been done except for on shield items
For vanilla I can slightly understand? Even then it’s kinda shitty that if you want this mechanic you have to have ankh shield, but it doesn’t feel as crucial as it does in calamity
Where you movement needs to be very precise and your iframes are fairly low
echo kestrel
that and probably one of the more overlooked benefits of kb immunity is that it preserves your momentum
frozen hornet
put it on ursa seargent. youll get a real good ankh shield rival
That got reworked
echo kestrel
if you're running on a platform or jumping with a bottle in pre-hm, the moment you get hurt you get cut short or have to start your sprint all over again
frozen hornet
Last I heard it's offensive now
median scaffold
if you're running on a platform or jumping with a bottle in pre-hm, the moment y...
Standard dash in question:
echo kestrel
harsh echo
default dash best addition
crude geode
Fr
olive saddle
default dash best addition
It is very good yes
sand marlin
My philosophy with debuffs is simple
Thank you discord.
Anyway
If a debuff makes you more liable to being inflicted, it is very flawed.
olive saddle
Thank you discord.
Anyway
If a debuff makes you more liable to being inflicted, ...
Discord has zero bugs
crude geode
fossil finch
Killing ourselves at this calamity powercreep
harsh echo
there should be more bos that can’t be countered by ram.
crude geode
Yharim just stops you and then puts you in a full Nelson for trying to ram him
violet zephyr
"Thus you have to reframe your entire brain when using the tabi line"
Couldn't this also be stated when players first acquire the ability to ram?
crude geode
Shield of Cthulhu already teaches people to run into enemies
sand marlin
#suggestions-posting message
Doesn't make any sense to give Tabi ram
Tabi line is no longer inferior to Ornate Shield either, the dodge is very powerful and absolutely makes up for the fact, as well as it getting even more jump speed past ML is very useful for mobility. It is meant to be the more mobile alternative as well so giving it ram makes less sense with this.
This suggestion doesn't really pull through with this reasoning.
Also Tabi dash is longer so it gains more distance
violet zephyr
This would also just make
Tabi superior
Less tighter timing needed to ram due to the superior dash.
olive saddle
I do not think we need more rams
Rams are already stupidly overpowered as it is
Adding it to tabi removes pretty much all choice in do i want dodge or ram
violet zephyr
If anything, this would make the Tabi line more overpowered than the Ornate line has ever been.
fossil finch
Shield of Cthulhu already teaches people to run into enemies
Not the same though
Soc bonk plays r different than ram plays
Conditions and spacing r all changed
Eitherway its very weak reasoning no matter which side its argued from
players do indeed have to adapt to gear being different all the time in games
violet zephyr
Shield of Cthulhu bonks you, which is not good for the majority of the time.
(See: Skeletron)
crude geode
Skeletron is probably one of the biggest reasons people stop using shield of cthulhu
olive saddle
See: rams
olive saddle
Get out of jail free card + like 3k damage from AA
olive saddle
Rams are a pretty solid way to nullify any worm enemy pretty much
harsh echo
duhh
fossil finch
Solution: kill rams
harsh echo
worms are just flawed in this game
fossil finch
olive saddle
Solution: kill rams
Im not opposed
crude geode
So true
harsh echo
simple pierce weapons mog them
crude geode
Give it to like. one accessory in hardmode and have it be one frame
fossil finch
You can prevent the piercing problem by making all segments share iframes like
harsh echo
10s cooldown
fossil finch
Be For Real you can evade every worm problem ever
harsh echo
You can prevent the piercing problem by making all segments share iframes like
i wonder why this isn’t the case
olive saddle
10s cooldown
I thought about this but I feel like it'd ruin them too hard
fossil finch
wdk maybe red didn't know how to do it by 1.1 or just didn't think of doing it
As for Calamity's wdfk
Kind of same reason really
harsh echo
Went along with vanilla i suppose
olive saddle
I dont think red cares for balance nearly as much
fossil finch
Good!!!!!!!
harsh echo
terra blade
crude geode
He doesn’t and it’s based
olive saddle
People probably thought it was fun to eat worm bosses in like two seconds and he kept it because its fuckin fun
Which is based I agree
harsh echo
kinda based tbh
crude geode
When you blow up twenty tons of dynamite and instagib destroyer
fossil finch
calamity
crude geode
Yeah
olive saddle
People probably thought it was fun to eat worm bosses in like two seconds and he...
I do like the semi pierce resistance system he added so they aren't as cheesable but fuck they're still extremely easy to cheese
Also making EoW take less damage from grenades only on expert+ is mega based
crude geode
I like them being easy to cheese bc fuck tomb crawlers
olive saddle
Yea that's true
Vanilla has some questionable decisions but at the end of the day they aren't game ruining
crude geode
Same with Cal tbfh
It’s just we’re more hyper focused on it bc fix the mod mentality
olive saddle
I also thihk cal cares about itself more than vanilla but idrk
crude geode
That feels iffy
Taking itself seriously more often is something I will say feels more accurate
(Poop blocks)
fossil finch
is it really any more serious though
olive saddle
Gfb exists tbf
crude geode
Yeah
median scaffold
Okay, since the trand of "combine effects of 2 items into 1 to make things better / easier / ...something else" is booming, should I do a suggestion about combining Bounding and Calcium potions?
echo kestrel
Idk, Altix seemed pretty set on keeping Calcium potions
median scaffold
Also, the potion’s niche is underscored by its complete absence from the Official Calamity Mod Wiki’s class setups guide, even for the Pre-Polterghast section where Ceaseless Void is encountered.
Don't think this should be really mentioned
violet zephyr
@echo kestrel I would argue the main purpose of Gravity Normalizer potions are the Space negating effect. Also, you shouldn't use the Class Setups guide as an arguing point, since that is managed by the community, not the developers.
fossil finch
We don't think the presence or lack thereof of an item in the wiki's guides is valid argumenting for anything
median scaffold
Idk, Altix seemed pretty set on keeping Calcium potions
Give it more uses, smh
echo kestrel
Ayt, gotcha, will be yeeting that part off
crude geode
He wanted it to have something more tho iirc
olive saddle
I really thihk gravity normalizer is QoL and not at all super impactful to gameplay. Its a potion that prevents stunlocks from happening so imo it being a potion means its really accessible for a reason
violet zephyr
Gravity Normalizer potions are simply a convenience thing, so that people don't have to manually create a roof to avoid going into Space, since the different gravity can throw players off during a boss fight.
Getting rid of this accessibility is just weird.
harsh echo
less potions = good
violet zephyr
less potions = good
Less bad and non-unique potions = good
Gravity Normalizer has a niche and does it perfectly.
olive saddle
Gravity Normalizer has a niche and does it perfectly.
^
Its been around for this long
crude geode
Yeah it has a very distinct purpose
violet zephyr
There is a reason why it wasn't deleted during the Potion Purge.
It is good and useful.
It serves a QoL benefit nothing else can.
olive saddle
It isn't nearly as strong as old tesla potion. Old tesla potion could stunlock any non boss enemy and trivalize some fights. This just makes a few enemies not able to ruin you with what can be fairly called complete bullshit and is a qol thing for space