suggestions-discussion

[echo leaf]

vanilla defense is incredibly stupid

the defensive strats for attacks like those is "dont get hit lmao"

[drowsy plank]

true

[violet zephyr]

Same person who beat Terraria with the Lawnmower, I believe.

[echo leaf]

Defense doesn't really do anything against nukes like that and if you get hit then you deserve to get a huge chunk of your healthbar removed

[echo leaf]

Yep, same person. Sorbet Cafe

[idle dagger]

Saying you run a tank build on the basis of you never getting hit so it’s infinite defense is a funny concept

[dense locust]

gfb ml and lc have the exact same damage as in master

[golden sonnet]

beam isn't the issue in gfb

[echo leaf]

Fantastic content 👍

[golden sonnet]

it's the fucking rocks

[echo leaf]

REAL

[golden sonnet]

If you ignore the literal boulder rain

[vocal cedar]

Intangible build

[dense locust]

ftw and gfb just increase contact damage, projectile damage is unchanged

[violet zephyr]

(These are the same type of people to get extraordinarily angry while playing video games and will break the equipment around them)

[vocal cedar]

Hallowed armor can I get an amen 🙏

[echo leaf]

REAL

[golden sonnet]

Don't neglect ancient light like that

[dense locust]

if you let vanilla cultist spawn an ancient light you deserve to lose

[golden sonnet]

also true eyes too

pretty sure

[dense locust]

true eyes have contact damage???

[golden sonnet]

they do, but you are correct that the projectiles they spawn aren't npc's

so it just affects their contact which isn't much

unlike ancient light which itself is an npc

ancient doom are the same

[violet zephyr]

Spawn Ancient Light? Are you confusing Ancient Light with Ancient Vision?

[golden sonnet]

their contact is affected, but not the projectiles which is their main thing

[violet zephyr]

Ancient Light are the "projectiles" that look like Stardust Fragments.

[golden sonnet]

^

[dense locust]

oj

[drowsy plank]

also i feel like we are overlooking calamity's changes to cultist

[violet zephyr]

(NPCs)

[dense locust]

we were refering to
vanilla

I thought

[drowsy plank]

oh lmao

[golden sonnet]

i was yeah

[drowsy plank]

i checked out a while ago so u cant blame me for getting confused

[dense locust]

I can blame you for not backreading

[violet zephyr]

No thoughts, head empty...

[drowsy plank]

https://tenor.com/view/ehe-anime-gif-anime-girl-teehee-gif-27178660

[golden sonnet]

but anyway, cultsit/ml is affected by master/legedary in the way:
Ancient Doom contact (not what it spawns)
True Eye contact (not what it spawns)
Ancient vision contact (not what it spawns)
Phantasmal dragon contact
Ancient Light

[dense locust]

calamity averaging 3 new armors per boss from wof to like golem is peak though

[golden sonnet]

we love NPC projectiles!

[golden sonnet]

yeah, we really didn't need mollusk, titan, daed, brimflame, umbraphile, reaver, fathom swarmer, hydrothermic, plague reaper, and plaguebringer during the most armor heavy spots in vanilla

[dense locust]

nah

unironically

I like the high quantity of armors

I prefer it to having barely any options like pml

[golden sonnet]

I do too, but also think it's a bit much at points, mostly pre plant/pre 3 mechs

[drowsy plank]

pml armors are a travesty

[dense locust]

5 fucking multihelmet sets.

[golden sonnet]

with all 3 ore tiers, all their ore alts, all OOA sets, daed helms for every class, crystal assasin, forbidden, frost, mollusk, spider, titan, ect

[slim cairn]

Easy fix

Delete frost armor from the game

[slim cairn]

Also tbh i think counting rogue armor is sorta unfair since rogues dont have ore alts

[golden sonnet]

might be a hot take but without deleting frost I think daed is the weakest. It has too many similarities with frost in theming and there are already an abundance of sets at that tier. It just does not need to exist imo

[golden sonnet]

that is 100% fair yeah

[drowsy plank]

as fucked up as it is, rogue and summoner arguably need more armors at those tiers

[dense locust]

spider being your only set until daed sucks

[drowsy plank]

i just think forbidden is a waste bc it's competing right around the point where you dont really need it anymore

[slim cairn]

Honestly summoner rn is very strong to make up for it, but after it gets rebalanced i wonder how is it gonns feel

[violet zephyr]

Mollusk is quite unique in terms of Terraria armour set design.
Daedalus we didn't need all of them, but Summoner did need an armour set eventually, since Summoner Hallowed didn't exist yet.
Brimflame has a good concept, even though it does compete with Spectre.
Plague Reaper has an interesting set ability.
Plaguebringer is donor, so can't do much about that.
Reaver is confusing...
Hydrothermic is even more confusing...
Titan and Umbraphile are excused due to being Rogue exclusive.

[slim cairn]

Also plague reaper is very goated we need that 💔

[violet zephyr]

Forgot to talk about Fathom Swarmer.

Uhh...

[drowsy plank]

it exists

[violet zephyr]

Calamity had a weird obsession with water arenas, I guess.

[violet zephyr]

Yeah, this.

[lucid marsh]

Water areas are cool

[drowsy plank]

fathom being the same tier as tiki is so fuckin pathetic i dont understand why it exists

[lucid marsh]

you said arenas but I read areas first

[drowsy plank]

ive literally never seen someone use a water arena unless they're fighting a water boss, or that one time JFL tried to automate yharon

[dense locust]

glem...

[violet zephyr]

People making water arenas would be more common if it didn't suck to make one, let alone many for different bosses.

[slim cairn]

Rethinking about that ig frost is very useful for tmelee

[dense locust]

you'd think right?

problem.

ada is still broken.

[drowsy plank]

ture

[violet zephyr]

We love Melee Speed.

[slim cairn]

I was reading above and schmoovi said the frost set bonus is multiplicative, would that change anything or not really

[drowsy plank]

frost is funny because point blank kinda makes up for the damage you lose by getting closer

for ranger

[dense locust]

more than

[drowsy plank]

point blank sure is one of the mechanics of all time

[dense locust]

full frost boost is 1.15 point blank is 1.25

[drowsy plank]

hilarious

[slim cairn]

I dont like point blank a lot ngl, but i also dont like staying close to a boss as a ranger

[violet zephyr]

True Melee Ranger.

[drowsy plank]

save us heroic damage

[violet zephyr]

No.

Unheroics your damage.

[vocal cedar]

fathom swarmer giving wall climbing instead of an actual out-of-water set bonus

[drowsy plank]

[slim cairn]

Villainous evil damage when

[violet zephyr]

Does extra damage to enemies.

For when a weapon is good on bosses but not on enemies... somehow.

[drowsy plank]

that's just weapons with shit crowd control

[slim cairn]

Me when im trying to farm post DoG events and im using anything but murasama:

(i will be dead in 2 seconds)

[vocal cedar]

The reverse sealed singularity

[drowsy plank]

im so glad those are dying too

[slim cairn]

Same

[violet zephyr]

Dying in 2026.

[slim cairn]

Genuinely such a relief

[vocal cedar]

Pumbkin...

[drowsy plank]

post-ML events when

[violet zephyr]

Doing events with a trillion stat increases is so fun!

[vocal cedar]

Post ML extra OOA expansion when

[violet zephyr]

Waiter, waiter! More pointlessly buffed events, please!

[slim cairn]

I genuinely hate ice queens so much

They deal 52 octillion damage

And are so tanky

[vocal cedar]

They do flee

Often

[slim cairn]

That too

[violet zephyr]

I simply use Wave Pounder or Last Prism if I'm Mage with a Zerg Potion and turn off my thinking organ.

[drowsy plank]

i remember hearing plans to leave the upgraded eclipse but like actually do it justice by adding other enemies and making the event challenging instead of just turning off ur iframes or whatever the fuck they do right now

but idk if those panned out

[dense locust]

so basically
adamantite is 50-65 defense 25% movespeed 15% melee speed 22% damage and 24% crit so long as you're using bwsc and endurance potion (which you should be)
compare this to frosts 43 def and 16% damage 11% crit and melee speed 8% movement speed
that 1.15 has to make up for you being worse in litterally every other way

which it usually doesnt

[vocal cedar]

More horror movie enemies?

[drowsy plank]

yeh

like i said idk if that's still planned tho

you hear a lot of shit that just ends up dying

[vocal cedar]

I know it just sounds cool

[drowsy plank]

it does...,.,..

[slim cairn]

I see

[violet zephyr]

They should add genuine horror to the Eclipse.

[slim cairn]

Just the fact this would mean frost queens get a buff still make me dread the idea ngl

[drowsy plank]

one of the things i hate is that fandom aka community remix actually does this

[slim cairn]

Im gonna be real

[drowsy plank]

wtf how

frost queen in solar eclipse 🤯

[slim cairn]

I despise ice queens in vanilla terraria too

[violet zephyr]

Ice Queens aren't in the Eclipse...

[slim cairn]

I thought you mean all events sorry 😭

[vocal cedar]

what does it add, out of curiosity

[drowsy plank]

nah i specified just solar

[slim cairn]

Oh wait

I massively misread yeah

Thats on me

[violet zephyr]

Herobrine.

[drowsy plank]

well. they're creepypasta enemies which is kinda lame for a concept, but the sprites and functionality (or proposed functionality on the fandom wiki) actually kinda fucks

[violet zephyr]

FNaF.

[vocal cedar]

NO

[drowsy plank]

i need u to look past the cringe and consider the concept if it was done with actually good inspo

[violet zephyr]

I know.

[slim cairn]

Deploying freddy fazbear

[violet zephyr]

Peak horror.

[idle dagger]

Wait you’re telling me it adds like, Jeff the killer and he Jeff the kills you??

[violet zephyr]

The animatronics get a little qui-

[idle dagger]

What lmao

[vocal cedar]

i hope it does

[violet zephyr]

fuck this is making me laugh hysterically

[slim cairn]

Ok this one was funny i cant lie

[vocal cedar]

sonic exe but hes just spindashing constantly with the angry tumbleweed ai

🙏

[drowsy plank]

KTJFIFBFJJDJFKFJDBDHDDN

https://tenor.com/view/its-peak-old-man-shaking-head-gif-3938163323164042530

[glass arch]

octocore message

[slim cairn]

Too evil

[slim cairn]

TRUE

[vocal cedar]

I bet a "The Thing" inspired enemy would be cool. Or maybe Xenomorph. (Spirit mod already does Xenomorph but its kinda weak in execution)
Byea I don't think I have anything more to add to this totally relevant Eclipse talk

[glass arch]

anyways i should suggest to remove like half the empyrean armor projectiles

[slim cairn]

💔

[vocal cedar]

Idk I enjoy them, just not the random factor.
Id kinda like it more if they each were tied to a specific rogue subclass (javelins, bombs, spiky balls, etc)

Definitely an SRS, but point being they could be remade somehow to be more engaging instead.

[violet zephyr]

Shadow Potion...

[drowsy plank]

ture

[vocal cedar]

It's similar

But "Rogue now shoots bonus things" isn't exactly a unique item/ability concept, so...

[glass arch]

its been so long since i last made a suggestion lmao

[frail fox]

Rogue class

[vocal cedar]

Rouge class

[north oracle]

but if you take projectiles off empyrean armor it loses its entire identity (projectile spam)

[drowsy plank]

rogue players when there are projectiles at the function

[glass arch]

then it doesnt deserve an identity

[north oracle]

you're ruining the armor set !!!!!!

[vocal cedar]

Make the identity stealth strikes

dew it

[glass arch]

theres nothing to ruin it did that to itself

[frail fox]

5 billion attendees

[slim cairn]

What should it get then

Genuine question because itd be cool i bet if it got something more unique

[glass arch]

ideally a rework

as for what that rework would be i have no idea

but to start we can get rid of some of those unnecessary projectiles

[slim cairn]

Wouldnt it be better to outright ask for a rework btw

Instead of just projectile removal

[glass arch]

i figure theres already one in the plans

[slim cairn]

Oh wait there is right

[glass arch]

so until then im suggesting to cut down on projectiles

[vocal cedar]

Isn't that only the meld items

not armor

[slim cairn]

Empyrean is made of meld blobs and i remember seeing something about it being touched up

As well

I could be wrong though

So dont take it for granted

[vocal cedar]

One would hope

Because the sprites are very cool

They unironically don't show their age like, at all, despite being considerably old

[lucid marsh]

How does this idea sound?

Move Frost and Forbidden armor to Mythril tier

These two armors, while usable, have to compete with several other armors at this level (Cryonic, adamantite/titanium, and probably something else I'm forgetting)
The tier before doesn't have much going on, only Mythril/Orichalcum and the Old One's Army armors, and not everyone likes to go out of their way to get those. I think this would be a good idea to change, and also help space things out from the next tier, which has things like chlorophyte and hallowed and more. The stats of frost and forbidden armor also aren't that much higher than the tier before them, although they have been buffed from vanilla, so any change made wouldn't need to be massive. It may also be important to consider that these armors being competing is affected by the hardmode progression change, and to review the stat distributions to make sure the armor sets are well designed.

Perhaps most importantly, moving these down a tier would give summoners and rogues a post 1 mech armor, which both classes currently lack.

[quiet fractal]

Is there a date for this update

[lucid marsh]

No

[north oracle]

there's never a date for updates

see the pinned message in #calamity-update-talk about this

[errant wren]

the date is between now and the heat death of the universe

totally

[north oracle]

maybe

no guarantees

[drowsy plank]

that's how many projectiles the average rogue stealth strike creates too

[vocal cedar]

crystaline

[drowsy plank]

i would also mention that this gives summoner a post-1 mech armor set which it currently lacks, because it still has cryo for post-2 mechs

(OOA sets do not count; sentry summoner is an entirely different beast)

[vocal cedar]

Forbidden Circlet my beloved.

[lucid marsh]

Got it

[slim cairn]

Forbidden also provides a great multiclass experience

[drowsy plank]

oh shit i forgot about circlet

[slim cairn]

iirc mage weapons dont give minions the penalty while wearing forbidden right?

[drowsy plank]

guys we did it

the post-1 mech rogue armor set

[drowsy plank]

i think so?

[vocal cedar]

hell yea

[lucid marsh]

Oh, is it also the only one for rogue?

[drowsy plank]

yeah

[lucid marsh]

Cool

[drowsy plank]

you normally just keep using titan heart

[frail fox]

Using a rogue weapon post-yharon and proccing 12 different projectiles

[vocal cedar]

Deadalus 🤮

[lucid marsh]

Anything else to consider?

[drowsy plank]

not off the top of my head

[lucid marsh]

I'll wait a little longer for any other recommendations, then post it

[drowsy plank]

if this does end up happening

i hope they make the treads give you generic damage instead of exclusively magic damage

because turning this mage/summoner set into an optional mage/summoner or rogue/summoner set makes the treads giving magic damage really weird lmao

actually maybe i can just make that a suggestion regardless of the mythril retier idea

[vocal cedar]

Could also change the damage boost to be class-specific mage/summoner/rogue and transfer it to the set bonus, if it proves to be too good somehow
Not seeing how it could, but players seem to find a way to make the most inconspicuous things op.

[drowsy plank]

that would be weird, and this is acting like there aren't a ton of other generic damage bonuses lying around on multiclass armors already

[vocal cedar]

Also, self-counterpoint: Armor mixing my beloved

[lucid marsh]

Gem robes are designed for that

[frosty trellis]

So this more just feels like frost and forbidden being Not Good rather than a necessary retier
I could maybe see the argument for it but I'm not sold, as post mech 2 has like, nothing for variety in any regard besides like, cryonic, which is more of a why the fuck is cryogen unlocking cryonic post mech 2 while cryo itself is pre mech problem than anything

I think if those two armors were made good it would be kinda like OOA, something you can go out of your way to get (Since you need a blizzard for Frost and a sandstorm for Forbidden)

But for now I'm just not sold on the idea of retiering it

[drowsy plank]

cryonic is whatever and really doesnt have much to do with the conversation that frost and forbidden are heavily outclassed by their more specialized counterparts, and that post-2 mechs into post-3 mechs is an absolute clusterfuck or armor sets right now

Frost, Forbidden, Adamantite, Titanium, Daedalus, Hallowed, Chlorophyte, Turtle, Brimflame and Umbraphile

Turtle should be post-Plantera, and Frost and Forbidden, being the weakest, would be the easiest to bump down

[frosty trellis]

Brimflame and Umbra are post calclone no?

[drowsy plank]

furthermore, this also helps with the rather uselessness of forbidden and frost fragments in early Hardmode rework progression, since everything you can craft with them is mostly locked behind two mechs

[frosty trellis]

Brimflame requires ashes an umbra is post calclone solar eclipse

[drowsy plank]

im just going off of class setups for that, and that's still the space between mechs and plant that just has a shit ton of armor sets dumped into it

[frosty trellis]

Also don't retier turtle that's like a terrible idea

[drowsy plank]

why lmao

it's an instant upgrade

[frosty trellis]

Reaver

[drowsy plank]

ok and

[frosty trellis]

It's immediately outclassed

By something

[drowsy plank]

you're implying it isn't already

[frosty trellis]

Significantly easier to get

[lucid marsh]

Apparently frost armor was buffed recently and forbidden was already decent

[frosty trellis]

It has a niche for defensive builds and true melee at post 3

If it got moved to post plant it would be completely useless

[lucid marsh]

Side note: reaver honestly has no reason to exist in my opinion. Other armors already fill the niche, both in gameplay and theme

[slim cairn]

Id say retiering turtle to reaver tier would kill armor sets more than what it currently does tbh

Sorry for tbe ping btw

Meant to disable it

[drowsy plank]

it's whatever im in the channel

but also like, again, you're acting like turtle doesn't already have plenty of competition as a melee tank set

like chloro and adamantite are already both very good at that

at least at post-Plant you could have chloro->turtle->beetle

and also reaver is generic??

doesn't it have like a fucking -25% damage penalty?

[slim cairn]

Yeah but thats genuinely outclassed by the tankyness and healing factor

[echo kestrel]

ngl reaver is crazy being the only armor in hm with DR

[drowsy plank]

okay sure so just

[frosty trellis]

.... Excuse me?

That's a take that I could not disagree less with

If it's just reaver tank I guess? as turtle is there for defensive builds and isn't bad in all fairness

But reaver mobility is literally unmatched for speed until Gemtech and reaver utility is what I use in the endgame if I want to build something or mine

[drowsy plank]

make turtle into an actual melee set

[slim cairn]

Thats a fair point, true

[drowsy plank]

turtle should already be there anyway

[frosty trellis]

Beetle Scale:

[drowsy plank]

it's siblings shroomite and spectre are

so what the fuck is up with that

[slim cairn]

Honestly reaver tank is goated

[frosty trellis]

Reaver tank is so goated

[drowsy plank]

turtle just gets the shitstick because. idk red felt like it or something

[frosty trellis]

Because living shards don't exist in vanilla

[echo kestrel]

i meant the armor piece itself
idk the beetle shell is inconsistent

[drowsy plank]

could just make the turtle shells drop post-Plant

not like they're used for anything else there

[vocal cedar]

wasn't turtle added first or am i wrong

[drowsy plank]

let me check

[verbal aspen]

giant turtle shell exists

[drowsy plank]

in vanilla

we're talking about why vanilla did this

[frosty trellis]

Huh

So it is

[drowsy plank]

nope! they were siblings like i said

all of them dropped in 1.2

[echo kestrel]

and even tarragon doesn’t have as much flat DR as reaver lol

[vocal cedar]

i see, thank you

[echo kestrel]

but then again no damage decrease for tarragon

[frosty trellis]

I mean tarragon is good for a number of reasons

[echo kestrel]

yeah definitely

[frosty trellis]

You also need to realize that DR is also kinda dogshit in cal bc of hte scaling

[drowsy plank]

turtle being a bruiser set (tank with damage) for melee seems like a perfectly respectable niche for it to fill, as well as giving melee an actual damage set for that tier instead of just coasting off its old sets until Golem

[frosty trellis]

Ykw fuck it
I've needed to make a suggestion about this for a long time

Time to finally make a controversal suggestion

[echo kestrel]

i’m always just amazed how rare sources of flat DR are post-ML

there’s just affliction, community, sponge, tarragon, and rampart i think

and even then auric doesnt inherit tarragon’s flat DR, just the DR set bonus

for good reason probably

[wide river]

Is this...
#suggestions-posting message
Not the same...
#suggestions-voting message
As this?

[echo kestrel]

true it’s been less than a week

[vocal cedar]

Technically not against the rules I think
As long as the old one was in a previous batch, and didn't get the votes to get into the dev server that is.

[frosty trellis]

Aight, have fun :D

[wide river]

The old one is in the current batch

The 21st is in this week's period

[echo kestrel]

might wanna add some math

[frosty trellis]

I can't really add math
I'm more just talking about experience

As the literal tank satan I've learned over time that trying to invest into damage reduction doesn't work

[echo kestrel]

i know but math adds credence and makes it less biased

[frosty trellis]

Like the reason why I said rover drive outclassed worm scarf was because it's true

[wide river]

I agree with this, but on the other hand, adding the math would lengthen the suggestion further and lower its chances of being read fully

[frosty trellis]

10 defense while the shield is up has always been better than the 17% DR of scarf

[vocal cedar]

Too soon it is, then? Might wanna ping the suggestion's poster in that case.

[echo kestrel]

that’s fair

[frosty trellis]

It's already a bit long
And if I wanted to add math I would make like, a document

And I am not THAT desperate for the suggestion to go through that I'm going to make a document on that

[echo kestrel]

btw what’s the soft cap for cal’s DR formula? Or does even 10% base from endurance potion already start getting nicked by the formula?

[frosty trellis]

It starts to get nicked

10% DR is around 9.01% DR

[echo kestrel]

jesus

[frosty trellis]

The DR softcap is 33.4%

I don't think I've been able to get it higher

At least within reason

[echo kestrel]

that’s rough
now I kinda’ understand why reaver tank is the only armor piece with flat dr in hardmode lmao

[frosty trellis]

It's more just defense matters so much more due to the softcap making DR shit

[echo kestrel]

indeed

[frosty trellis]

I get why the dr scaling exists but it wouldn't need to exist if all the stuff that gives DR wasn't as stupid strong

So it ends up just making them pointless

[echo kestrel]

Yeah, it probably could be simply managed by looking at loadouts at different points of the game

then just totaling the DR on paper before the formula

then reducing the values so the theoretical maximum is at a good place

so that would maybe effectively remove the need for the formula

[ripe owl]

Wait isn't this technically a revertion

[slim cairn]

They should simply double down on defense damage

[ripe owl]

Since most DR items got buffed not too long ago so you basically propose to nerf them back

[echo kestrel]

the formula though does seem to serve a purpose like a catch-all in case new DR items are introduced

[ripe owl]

Also formula removal might lead to full warding nothing but DR accessories builds which will eat all the damage

[echo kestrel]

not needing to tweak individual items and rather subject them to an overall cap

[royal tapir]

See, we could go through and rebalance every source of DR to flatten it down
Or we could make the curve less strict

I know which choice I prefer

[vocal cedar]

New feature: DR damage

[frosty trellis]

How less strict

[royal tapir]

Looking at Desmos right now to see stuff

[frosty trellis]

Bc the highest amount of DR I have ever been able to reasonably get is 33.4% even minmaxing it

And it's been worse than just stacking more defense every time

[echo kestrel]

yeah the curve definitely serves the purpose then of not needing to individually balance each item lmao

and again even if new items that are sources of DR are introduced

they are not above the almighty DR curve

[wide river]

You joke but from what I remember MPG saying, defense damage affects DR too

[royal tapir]

Yeah it has for its entire history

[echo kestrel]

Oh wait is that because defense comes first before DR?

like, damage is reduced by the flat defense value first and then further by DR?

[lucid marsh]

I think this conversation is missing something

Why does DR exist? Why does anything grant it besides niche accessories that aren't the main line ones?

It feels like all of calamity's history has been adding things without understanding the reasons things don't exist in the first place, and then scrambling to make it work without realizing that the real issue is the presence of these new mechanics in the first place

[echo kestrel]

i guess it’s because endurance potion exists in vanilla terraria

as well as worm scarf

beetle shell

[drowsy plank]

honestly i couldn't actually tell you why damage reduction exists

[wide river]

Redigit™️

[drowsy plank]

lmao

[lucid marsh]

You don't need defense damage. You don't need DR. You just need to reduce defense stats across the board, and reduce DR to zero in most sources. The worm scarf is somewhat balanced in vanilla because it has no upgrades. You can use it throughout the whole game, but you're giving up an accessory slot to do it

[slim cairn]

For calamity its because it exists in vanilla, for vanilla its probably because its usually in a lot of games nowadays

[drowsy plank]

defense damage has nothing to do with defense or DR

it's literally just for facetanking

[lucid marsh]

Face tanking wouldn't be possible if defense stats were balanced

[drowsy plank]

it should be tweaked more to better reflect that but it was never supposed to be a real nerf to defensive options

[slim cairn]

Wait why reduce stats eben more across the board wouldnt that just fuck defense for 0 reason

[drowsy plank]

that is not true

how would you even do that

[slim cairn]

Like sorry but thst genuinely sounds awful

[echo kestrel]

this would mean an individual rebalance of every single defense-granting item including vanilla

[lucid marsh]

I don't mean evenly across the board, I mean reduce the highest source of defense a lot and the lower ones not much

[echo kestrel]

i genuinely do not want that for the devs

[slim cairn]

So....fucking everything across the board?

[drowsy plank]

vanilla can't even stop facetanking (not that im even sure it's tried); how would a mod that adds MORE DEFENSIVE OPTIONS manage that

[lucid marsh]

Would it? You can't usually face tank in vanilla, outside of classic difficulty

[slim cairn]

You make high defense more miserable

[hollow verge]

vernal soil at 76 so far let's go

[drowsy plank]

that is a outright lie

[slim cairn]

And low defense slightly more miserable

[drowsy plank]

do i need to go get the defense video

[slim cairn]

Thats a lose lose for everyone

[lucid marsh]

It is?

Maybe I'm stupid

[drowsy plank]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdNATCHC-4M

sorbet cafe moment

[echo kestrel]

btw off-topic but wanted to ask, when you do loadout testing do you have potion buffs and all? i know candles and alcohol arent allowed but unless i misread, the sheet about testing doesn’t say anything about potion buffs/station buffs

[lucid marsh]

My thought was mainly: why expand a mechanic to the point that you need a new mechanic to counter balance it, and then another mechanic to balance that, when you could just make the first one balanced

[drowsy plank]

also i know i could go find a (god forbid) shyguymask video of him tanking master golem and killing it with terra blade in like 10 seconds

[slim cairn]

Because doing that would probably take more than 2 years

[lucid marsh]

However, it seems I was mistaken and that this was necessary after all

[drowsy plank]

the real question is why did they give DR to bosses.,.,.,.

[vocal cedar]

Damage Reduction isn't a problem just because its a separate stat you can get imo.
The problem is making its use as widespread as it is currently, so it requires this many countermeasures and failsafes to balance

[echo kestrel]

it’s a chicken and the egg thing
i would ask the same about spite candle lmfao

[hollow verge]

what

[drowsy plank]

isn't there a buff outline on the sheet too

or is that on another sheet

[drowsy plank]

i would ask the same thing about all the candles, in fact i would ask that about a lot of things in calamity
but it's a bit too late for that now huh

[echo kestrel]

true

[echo kestrel]

I am actually blind and you are correct

[drowsy plank]

lol
lmao

[echo kestrel]

I did not scroll far enough to see the potions and buff sheet

all the way at the end

[vocal cedar]

Its supposed to be something you CAN'T interact with much, a stronger version of armor, yes, but one thats rare to come by. Byea I digress this probably isn't the place for rants like this

[drowsy plank]

i mean i get it, but DR was already kind of busted in vanilla; at least Calamity is giving it attention

and it's not like it's the only mod that gives items that give DR

in fact, im quite sure Fargo's has a DR cap too

ah, yeah
it's WAY higher than calamity's effect 33% softcap, but it still exists

[echo kestrel]

well currently there is one failsafe that being the DR curve which is a good catch-all for any egregiously high sources of DR

[vocal cedar]

True I suppose. Point is maybe the more "absolute" values like DR should've remained that way. Something more like a stat devs can play around with, than something so readily handed to the player.

[drowsy plank]

i mean it's already been kneecapped
twice

lemme go see how many sources there are

[vocal cedar]

(Or at least instancess of it affecting ALL incoming damage being handed to the player should be sparse)

[echo kestrel]

again that would mean having to go in and look at and individually rebalance every source of DR at the moment

the current way it works seems good for the scale of calamity rn

[royal tapir]

This is kinda funny actually

[echo kestrel]

it ain’t perfect definitely, but it’s cool that it can’t be outright abused right now

[vocal cedar]

It would sadly, why I'm pretty sure this option isn't feasible anymore

[drowsy plank]

Calamity-Exclusive DR Sources

Accessories - 21
Armors - 9
Potions - 1
Weapons - 1

soom of these are really weird ones

like moonshine, vanilla augmented wings, or absorber's onhit effect

[royal tapir]

Also a couple of those are dead next update with several wing stats dying

[drowsy plank]

true

[vocal cedar]

nice tbh.

[drowsy plank]

again, i think wings should still have effects, but they can probably be better than. Generic Stat Stick

[vocal cedar]

I don't mind personally, but they definitely shouldn't have to be paired with armor

[drowsy plank]

and by better i mean more interesting not stronger

[vocal cedar]

Byea bone wing-esque effects indeed better

[royal tapir]

You may like what I did to the Lunar Wings then

[echo kestrel]

yknow if they aren’t generic stat sticks, people might be further incentivized to not use wingslot lmao

[drowsy plank]

👀

[lavish condor]

fin wings give water breathing and mobility rather than stats; more of stuff like that would be cool

[lucid marsh]

I'm never not going to use wings, they're too useful

Wing slot just makes my build less limited in other aspects. As an extra accessory slot would

[dense locust]

the chair:

[vocal cedar]

Just more cool ways to interact with flying/flight time in general would be neat I bet.

Like the aforementioned bone wings

[wide river]

Yeah, wooden chair is too good to pass up on

[lucid marsh]

The mounts that make a sufficient replacement for wings are mostly end game things

[lavish condor]

spectre wings could give brief invulnerability upon running out of flight time or stuff like that

[vocal cedar]

Cool sounding.

[lucid marsh]

Actually, you know what I would like

Take the idea of wing stat bonuses and reverse it. Make accessories that are under utilized also count as weak wings

[vocal cedar]

Soul of Cryogen...

[lucid marsh]

Yeah, like soul of cryogen but more

[frozen hornet]

it sounds cool but that sounds so hard to control it kinda seems useless

[dense locust]

we do not talk about soul of cryogen

[lucid marsh]

Hell, give them weird variations on the mechanic of wings

[vocal cedar]

Byea I don't think that would work but sounds cool in concept

[lucid marsh]

I mean you'd make them weaker, but still grant the utility of a weak set of wings

[echo kestrel]

soul of cryogen is a sick vanity wing

thats all i use it for lmao

[lucid marsh]

Imagine if, say, what's an underused accessory...

[dense locust]

you see the problem here

[lucid marsh]

No, hold on

[lavish condor]

maybe a hotkey to transfer remaining flight time into i-frames, but a hotkey for wings seems excessive. I like the idea of the ghost wings giving you i-frames relating to flight somehow

[dense locust]

vanilla has a lot of bad accessories
most of those accessories would either still be shit or stupidly broken if they doubled as wings

[lucid marsh]

Imagine if sand elemental in a bottle gave you a buffed version of the sandstorm in a bottle effect that you could use to glide

[echo kestrel]

parry on wings, sounds pretty cool but also…thematically problematic

[lucid marsh]

Imagine if the star cloak let you glide like wings but had zero flight time

[dense locust]

featherfall potion:

[lucid marsh]

That's not the same... You have better control over wings

[echo kestrel]

darndest vanilla potions

[dense locust]

no??

[frozen hornet]

if you had zero flight time it would be the same

[lucid marsh]

Now you'd have a real choice to make: do you use a dedicated set of wings? Or do you take some extra boost and a tiny bit of wings

Ok it's slightly different: with feather fall you hold down to descend at normal-ish speed, with wings you hold space to slow down

[lavish condor]

most boss attacks are balanced around wings and the control they give you

[lucid marsh]

And feather fall also lets you hold up to fall even slower

By the way...

Boots add 25 flight time to all wings

Specifically rocket boot upgrades

[dense locust]

closer to 40 afaik

[lavish condor]

you would either have to make these alt-wing accessories match or exceed wings in control/mobility or rebalance all boss attacks around not needing wings, which both sound unideal

[lucid marsh]

Or something like that

[dense locust]

vanila wiki says its 0.7 seconds

[frail fox]

Giving Hand Warmer 400 flight time

[dense locust]

which would be 42 flight

[dense locust]

finally, peak warmer

[vocal cedar]

Step stool now gives +10 flight time get hype

[lucid marsh]

Calamity is still designed under the delusion of players not needing wings, and you can actually sort of get away with weaker wings or only boots or dashes. This was seriously recommended to me for some bosses

[echo kestrel]

speaking of wings
does gravity normalizer really have to be an individual potion buff

can’t it just be an immunity added to Infected Jewel, Astral Armor, and Hide of the Astrum Deus

[vocal cedar]

Suppose it could

[lucid marsh]

Like. People have legitimately told me to consider not using wings and instead using ninja gear, or something like that

[vocal cedar]

It currently needs aureus cells so that'd be good

[lucid marsh]

Maybe it was boots

I think this would make more combinations of accessories viable

[echo kestrel]

yeah if my idea was the case, you’d still need aureus cells anyway cos infected jewel

[vocal cedar]

Yup

[dense locust]

what

who told you that

[lavish condor]

boots can be replaced because wings can replace their horizontal speed if you are airborne. There's really nothing that can replace wings vertical mobility other than more wings

[dense locust]

the only time I've seen someone suggest not using wings was if they were suggesting chair

[lucid marsh]

I can't remember. Maybe I'm misremembering and it was shield dashes that they were suggesting dropping

[lavish condor]

I struggle to think of a way to make "alt-wings" that are weaker than wings but offer sufficient mobility to dodge attacks without severely crutching you

[lucid marsh]

The point is that the extra effects you might get or have could be enough

[frozen hornet]

It's definitely shield dashes

[dense locust]

they exist right now
they're called angel wings

[frozen hornet]

No one talks about replacing wings with MNG

They do however talk about replacing rams with MNG

[echo kestrel]

As a tangent to this, I currently really like the alternative setup pre-ML of MNG+Absorber as opposed to Asgard’s Valor, it takes up an extra acc slot of course but you get a dodge, a dash, absorber effects, and KB immunity

at the cost of no ram dash though

I wish there was more “combos” like that

[lucid marsh]

Let me put it this way. I could fight the destroyer with like, fledgling wings and terra boots, if I had an extra accessory slot or two to use for something else

I can say the same about cryogen

[dense locust]

I mean does it really take an extra accessory slot if that extra accessory slot is absorber

[vocal cedar]

Also unrelated but @lucid marsh you may have made your newest suggestion too soon, the previous version of it hasn't finished being in voting yet. The Frost/Forbidden Armor retiering one I mean.

[frozen hornet]

Can't you just wear asgard's and absorber to get absorber effects

[dense locust]

yes

the point is more to benefit from mng

[echo kestrel]

yes but now you have an extra source of kb immunity that’s useless

[dense locust]

aka "rams don't have much value on ml lets use mng instead"

tbh I'm not too big on it

[lavish condor]

trading ram dash with dodge is what this is afaik

[dense locust]

I'd rather just go dashless

[lucid marsh]

Oh it was? Oops

[echo kestrel]

it’s just a minmaxing thing tbh

[frozen hornet]

huh?

[echo kestrel]

both asgards valor and absorber give kb immunity

[dense locust]

you have 2 items that give kb immunity

[lucid marsh]

I'm posting it here for storage

Move Frost and Forbidden armor to Mythril tier

These two armors, while usable, have to compete with several other armors at this level (Cryonic, adamantite/titanium, and probably something else I'm forgetting)
The tier before doesn't have much going on, only Mythril/Orichalcum and the Old One's Army armors, and not everyone likes to go out of their way to get those. I think this would be a good idea to change, and also help space things out from the next tier, which has things like chlorophyte and hallowed and more. The stats of frost and forbidden armor also aren't that much higher than the tier before them, although they have been buffed from vanilla, so any change made wouldn't need to be massive. It may also be important to consider that these armors being competing is affected by the hardmode progression change, and to review the stat distributions to make sure the armor sets are well designed.

Perhaps most importantly, moving these down a tier would give summoners and rogues a post 1 mech armor, which both classes currently lack.

[vocal cedar]

Or so I have been told.

[frozen hornet]

I get that

I just think calling it a useless source of kb immunity is weird

[echo kestrel]

it’s more redundancy

like i said its just a minmax thing

[drowsy plank]

something that has been said a lot is that cal really needs more knockback immunity sources

in general there's a lot of stuff a player is just assumed to have sometimes in design, and the asguard's line is the biggest perpetuator of that

[echo kestrel]

kb on wings

[wide river]

Guide to Plant Fiber Cordage knockback immunity

[frozen hornet]

Titan potion knockback immunity

It's literally called titan potion

[drowsy plank]

make a suggestion about it

[frozen hornet]

true...

[echo kestrel]

or or

shimmer demon heart or celestial onion into kb immunity perma upgrade

[drowsy plank]

PFFT

i think there's a reason no one time use items have shimmers

[frozen hornet]

the coldheart

prevents knockback

[vocal cedar]

✍️ 🔥 🔥

[echo kestrel]

yknow it’d be really cool if all the one time use non-craftables had shimmer alts but were perma upgrades that basically are the player giving up those upgrades for something else

[vocal cedar]

I'm 100% sure that would create confusion for newer players

[drowsy plank]

also like

what if you just got two

lmao

[echo kestrel]

what if they only just drop once or using one prevents the use of the other

[vocal cedar]

Those items would have to have 3 billion warning labels

[drowsy plank]

how would you stop them from dropping twice

[vocal cedar]

On their tooltips

[drowsy plank]

or just

bringing one over from another world

[echo kestrel]

i mean that’s kind of the same thing you can do anyway with crim/corr effigies

[tired haven]

Fyi 1.5x movement speed was already a thing multiple years ago
It got changed to flat 50% movement speed because it messed with lategame mobility way too much, while the intended effect of not moving like molasses in early game is achievable without the multiplier
The fact that it's gonna be reverted is... peculiar to me

[drowsy plank]

fuck if i know at this point

[echo kestrel]

yeah, probably infeasible

I just like the idea of being able to choose whether you have a fully upgraded adre/rage versus another set of stats entirely

[drowsy plank]

i think we should go back to whatever the first movement speed changes were those were funny and you had to stack the shit out of movement speed to do the busted stuff anyway

[echo kestrel]

unnerf exquisitely stuffed and sugar rush

[drowsy plank]

if i have to do wings/blizzard in a balloon/frog leg upgrade to outrun malice calclone then let me outrun malice calclone who give a shit

[hollow shell]

@frosty trellis Worm Scarf is 14% in Calamity iirc

[drowsy plank]

that's like half ur build

[vocal cedar]

Jousting Lances viable?!?!

[hollow shell]

https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Damage_Reduction

[echo kestrel]

they already are wdym

[vocal cedar]

[drowsy plank]

^

[echo kestrel]

hallowed jousting fucking destroys calclone

[drowsy plank]

cal already caps jousting lances anyway so i think breaking movement speed is fine

[vocal cedar]

Then give more. Can never have enough Lances

[echo kestrel]

true

would like to see postml jousting lance

[wide river]

Jousting class

[vocal cedar]

I wish

Cosmilite Lance...

[drowsy plank]

auric jousting lance feels like something i heard about being joke about at least once

bc of auric repulsors existing

[echo kestrel]

you just hold it out and dog kill himself on the post-ml lance

[vocal cedar]

This is canon

[echo kestrel]

that’d be so fucking cool ngl

[lucid marsh]

nothing can compare to floatie tube joisting

[hollow shell]

Calcium Potion, perhaps?

[wide river]

Strong bones

[vocal cedar]

Potassium Potion

Or something

[wide river]

(I'll take a reason for Calcium existing still, whatever makes it warranted these days)

[frosty trellis]

I don't like the idea of it being on a potion personally

I would rather it be on an accessory and even certain armors

[wide river]

Give it 3 second duration and make it not work with permanent buff

[vocal cedar]

Its good for early game before cobalt shield

It'd*

[echo kestrel]

calcium is weird because featherfall exists

[novel belfry]

calcium is so stupid

[frosty trellis]

Featherfall and Calcium do different things

For instance, featherfall is busted

[echo kestrel]

Truly

[vocal cedar]

Calcium is an ok reason to go for skeleton merchants early and thats about it

Kb immunity would work better for it

[echo kestrel]

Is KB immunity just a boolean?

Cos if that weren’t the case, could see calcium giving KB resistance

[vocal cedar]

I mean kb values obviously exist

But I don't know about enemies having resistance

[echo kestrel]

I would like to see a point in the future where you could achieve effective knockback immunity without the asgard valor line by stacking sources of KB resistance

If that were ever the case

[frosty trellis]

If I were to give knockback immunity to more things, this would be the list of it:
Rover Drive/Lunar Corps Armor/Sponge (While the shield is up)
Flame Licked Shell/Profaned Core
Abyssal Diving Gear/Suit
Flesh Totem

Like, all of these make sense as just general sources of kb immunity

[vocal cedar]

Flesh Totem

[echo kestrel]

Flesh Totem

[drowsy plank]

would need to be retiered and if it's a potion, the most id accept is partial knockback resistance
too many times potions are stronger than accessories. which is dumb because they have 0 real cost

[north oracle]

i'd remove ankh from asgard's so that you aren't nearly guaranteed to have kb immunity for the entire game

[echo kestrel]

Oh shit, so it’s not a boolean for the player?

Sick

[drowsy plank]

i dont actually know

[echo kestrel]

Oh

[drowsy plank]

but im pretty sure stuff like that has been messed with before

if stuff like slap hand works on players then it probably could work

[vocal cedar]

I may remember the Scarab boss from the Spirit Mod having something like KB resistance actually. But it could be modded code specifically for it.

[wide river]

Enemies have knockback resistance, but I believe the player does not

That said, the player takes the same amount of knockback from any attack from what I remember

[vocal cedar]

Understandable

[drowsy plank]

hm

uh

okay i dont actually know a ton about the uh

[hollow shell]

Separating out the dash shields into their own line,
and introducing a new line which (somehow) continues Ankh Shield's theme of 'immunity',
is not a bad idea

[drowsy plank]

Player class

but looking at the tmod documentation

there seems to be a knockback float under the hurt function (or class? i cant tell which one this is)

so it might be possible to modify that

since it just has the value of 4.5f according to this

[idle dagger]

this is interesting to hear because I always feel like I have several for some reason

[drowsy plank]

noKnockback is a boolean tho

[idle dagger]

but i I think that's definitely fault of aegis

[wide river]

Cal has definitely had a history of shoehorning the player into using Asgard's in the past

[idle dagger]

what is a boolean btw

[echo kestrel]

yes or no

or rather true/false

[idle dagger]

ahh

[vocal cedar]

value that can be only true or false, yea

[idle dagger]

this might be because I really like absorber and also tend to use stuff like hero's shield

[drowsy plank]

okay yeah i was right you can modify knockback

[vocal cedar]

High Ruler KB immunity...

[idle dagger]

how many accessories even do grant knockback immunity

[drowsy plank]

all you'd need to do is modify the knockback variable in the HurtInfo struct

which is
probably easier said than done but

should be possible i think!

[echo kestrel]

Would suggesting stuff that grants knockback resistance rather than immunity be a valid suggestion tho? Idk why but I feel like it sounds like a “against the sugg doc” sorta thing atm lol

[drowsy plank]

i think that would be fine

unless a dev pops up and tells me "actually modifying the knockback variable in hurtinfo requires sacrificing three newborns we're not doing it"

[echo kestrel]

so, two newborns is fine

perfect

[golden sonnet]

Yep

[drowsy plank]

as long as it's clones of the angler it's fine

[lucid marsh]

this feels kinda crazy, that debuff immunity is vital. I would personally keep it, but instead make all sources of knockback immunity instead be incrementally increasing levels of knockback resistance

increasing by tier

[echo kestrel]

Imo current sources of knockback immunity ought to be kept

As I sort of envision knockback resistance being an alternative way to achieve immunity without needing stuff like asgard’s valor

[lavish condor]

would paladin's shield line/absorber remain as full immunity?

[lucid marsh]

other idea: resistance becomes immunity if it is close enough for the given attack

so a really low knockback attack is easier to be immune to than a higher one

[drowsy plank]

the debuff immunity wouldn't be vital if they just made the debuffs less dogshit.................

most of the ankh shield debuffs were fucking mistakes anyway

[vocal cedar]

curse

[drowsy plank]

how about silenced

[hollow shell]

In Calamity:
Asgard's Valor, Elysian Aegis, and Asgardian Aegis
Giant Tortoise Shell and The Absorber
Rampart of Deities
Shield of the High Ruler

Also, Titan Heart armor and the ability from Desert Prowler armor

[drowsy plank]

fuck mages in particular

[lavish condor]

I would say attacks either have low (projectiles/minor contact) or high (major contact) for simplicity's sake
cobalt shield line could give immunity to low knockback and resistance to high knockback while other more niche forms of immunity gives full immunity

[hollow shell]

hmmmm

[fresh idol]

hii

[idle dagger]

i feel if you aren't using ankh line for whatever reason you could and probably would just use this for kb resistence until you get paladin's shield

[hollow shell]

Well, we do already have a list of attacks the devs have deemed majorly impactful.
Defense Damage.

We could make it so that any attack that is set to inflict Defense Damage is what inflicts "high" knockback

[echo kestrel]

The thing is, that would mean devs have to rebalance existing sources of kb immunity

I feel like just adding sources of KB resistance that can eventually stack up to 100% would be healthier in that now you have little more variation in builds because you can opt to not run kb immunity

[hollow shell]

hello

[novel belfry]

i dunno man

[drowsy plank]

you get hit by moon lord's beam and get shot halfway across the world like you got hit with slap hand

[glass arch]

so true

[novel belfry]

knockback is not a fun thing to deal with and the game becomes a lot more fun when its out of the equation

[drowsy plank]

[glass arch]

yeah

knockback sucks

[echo kestrel]

It does

[lavish condor]

also bosses like crabulon and skeletron doing high knockback would make getting stunlocked less common

[glass arch]

knockback res can be interesting but honestly

just keep the current kb immunity and MAYBE add a couple extra sources

[echo kestrel]

Yeah, that’s the sugg I’m writing up basically

[drowsy plank]

LET SKELETRON SLAP ME ACROSS THE MAP LIKE SLAP HAND

[lavish condor]

I wonder if there's a mod for this out there

[echo kestrel]

Keep current sources, and add res so that there’s an alternate way

[idle dagger]

Assuming you aren't use ankh line (for whatever reason)
What parts of the game lack a good kb resistance accessory the most?

[glass arch]

wf implementation :cluebed:

[echo kestrel]

Doesn’t replace current methods of obtaining kb immunity

[vocal cedar]

Probably the later stages
Like post ML

Unless you're always using absorber

[idle dagger]

feel like absorber is a fine slot in for a good chunk

[novel belfry]

add knockback anti-resistance

make some moves just ignore kb res

[drowsy plank]

absorber works fairly well but like

[glass arch]

god no thats a horrible fucking idea never cook again

[drowsy plank]

idk if id be using it on DoG/Yharon, and rampart is post-Yharon

[idle dagger]

yeah ^ that's about where i'd say

[lavish condor]

don't a lot of bosses have contact damage and projectiles use separate iframes

[glass arch]

well for those you can use elysian

[idle dagger]

well the idea is "what if you aren't using ankh line"

[novel belfry]

and by some moves i mean the Atlas

[echo kestrel]

I think they mean some moves will go through KB resistance but not KB immunity

[idle dagger]

i guess the example is what if i'm using statis belt

[glass arch]

i dont know if elysian counts as ankh line

[drowsy plank]

why wouldnt it

[glass arch]

because it isnt an upgrade to it

[vocal cedar]

Its ankh adjacent in the crafting tree

An essential component

[echo kestrel]

Though I don’t know if this is achievable considering what Cog found in the tmodloader docs about kb values

[glass arch]

its used in an upgrade to its upgrade

[drowsy plank]

and it has a nearly identical effect going on

[idle dagger]

alright better statement: components of the asgardian aegis

[drowsy plank]

with the whole fire debuff immunities and knockback res

[lavish condor]

upgrade doesn't necessarily mean crafted from it's downgrade, but yea technically it's a sidegrade because you lose general debuff immunity

or so I think from wiki reading

[drowsy plank]

like it very obviously is supposed to replace asgard's until you beat DoG so you can make aegis

[idle dagger]

Real and true answer: upgrade hero's shield post polter

[drowsy plank]

the paladin/flesh knuckles one?

[glass arch]

anyways uhh sothr on dog and yharon

[idle dagger]

yes

[drowsy plank]

that would be funny

[glass arch]

it would be even funnier if stygian shield

[drowsy plank]

you know idk why this popped into my head but

DoG is the Plantera of post-ML

[idle dagger]

DoG is a pretty huge step

you get a HELL of a lot of accessories post DoG

[vocal cedar]

Polterghast..

[hollow shell]

Multiple Paladin's Shield lines would be... interesting?

[vocal cedar]

Byea ai jokes aside DoG definitely unlocks more stuff

[drowsy plank]

boss indicating you are about halfway through progression that unlocks WAY too much of the game's content at once that has very important resources locked behind that you have to revisit things for

[idle dagger]

while this obviously cannot affect now, combining hero shield with like reworked post provi's ravager's flesh totem or something

actually flesh totem is just post provi ravager rn isn't it

[glass arch]

but yeah kb immunity first shows up with astral armor if you arent using ankh line

[glass arch]

no thats chalice

[frosty trellis]

Giant
Turtle
Shell

[vocal cedar]

Its pretty odd that they made it like that, tbh
"You spend the entirety of the game making this shield, and you can alway use it except this one very specific part where we're handing you an identical one instead"

[frosty trellis]

I am the entire reason that item and absorber have kb immunity rn

I asked ozz for it

[drowsy plank]

actually

wait yeah what the fuck

[frozen hornet]

Yes

Dog is exactly in the middle of post ml

[drowsy plank]

why is elysian aegis not just a post-Provi asguard upgrade

[frosty trellis]

At this point

It should be an upgrade

[vocal cedar]

True

[idle dagger]

ah this is the accessory that drops from ravager post provi

[frosty trellis]

The wings can be the drop and the cores can just upgrade it

[idle dagger]

not totem

[frosty trellis]

Core is crazy

[lucid marsh]

because of the mandatory hallow or underworld unique drop, of course

[glass arch]

also early hardmode (ignore me i called titan heart astral armor

[frozen hornet]

Why core instead of divine geodes

[echo kestrel]

astral armor has kb immunity?

[frosty trellis]

Titan heart does

Not astral

[drowsy plank]

someone suggest elysian becomes an actual asguard upgrade instead of just a weird half-spiritual upgrade

[idle dagger]

I feel like there's definitely accessory lines that have an overlapped accessory, but paladin's shield is probably a lot more of a (hypothetical) relevant one
compared to like frog leg or something

[glass arch]

yeah i keep confusing them

[lucid marsh]

why can't you just tell the devs this directly instead of needing it to go through suggestions voting for a week with a 30% chance of beeing seen

[hollow shell]

Cog isn't a dev

[crude geode]

^

[drowsy plank]

yeah lmao

[lucid marsh]

moderator, close enough

[hollow shell]

lol.

[drowsy plank]

because that's

[lucid marsh]

I would assume

[drowsy plank]

an abuse of power??

[glass arch]

no the mod to dev pipeline is shut the fuck down

and the dev to mod pipeline is also basically nonexistent

[crude geode]

“Devs do this thing I want”

[hollow shell]

I don't think the devs would appreciate a moderator in the Calamity Main Discord Server starting to make demands of the mod itself

[drowsy plank]

yeah

[idle dagger]

the reason Cog makes so many suggestions I presumed is because they cannot directly suggest things to devs lmao

[drowsy plank]

that is correct

[lucid marsh]

not even a demand, just a "hey maybe you should consider this obvious design oversight"

I see

[idle dagger]

You could say...she's a cog part of a larger system...

[drowsy plank]

[crude geode]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/497604235509235726/1016828596452601866/calamity_to_my_mental_state.gif

[vocal cedar]

...

[hollow shell]

subjective

[echo kestrel]

Okay wait so before I fully write the sugg about KB resistance, I just realized, what's wrong then with just suggesting for more sources of KB immunity?

[drowsy plank]

nothing

mpg did it i think

[idle dagger]

I do kind of like the idea of a hero's shield upgrade for mid post-ML actually

mainly because I just like hero shield

[drowsy plank]

i just thought a knockback immune potion is dumb and bad

[vocal cedar]

Bonk supreme shield

[echo kestrel]

On that note I also feel like flat sources of KB immunity are meant to be sparse

[drowsy plank]

yea

[echo kestrel]

Oh, okay yeah I see it now

[idle dagger]

One run I want to use Statis' belt over aegis

seems fun

[crude geode]

Calcium Potion but this time it’s for getting hit by trucks

[vocal cedar]

Tier 3 counter scarf might be cool as well

To have as an upgrade

[idle dagger]

I love the statis belts conceptually but god does 70% of it feel unhelpful

it's probably closer to like 50% but whatever

[wide river]

Calcium Potion now grants the player immunity to Truck-kun

[crude geode]

[echo kestrel]

Currently, the only ways to achieve general knockback immunity are through:

• [Pre-Hardmode] Cobalt Shield, Obsidian Shield
• [Hardmode] Ankh Shield/Asgard's Valor, Paladin's Shield/Frozen Shield/Hero Shield, Giant Tortoise Shell/Absorber, Titan Heart Armor
• [Post-Moon Lord] Elysian Aegis/Asgardian Aegis, Rampart of Deities

Am I missing anything here?

[glass arch]

Make Elysian Aegis an actual Asgard's Valor upgrade

Elysian Aegis is a weird item. It's obviously intended to replace Asgard's Valor after killing Providence, seeing as they function almost identically. However, its in a weird limbo state of trying to be a spiritual successor (like Betsy's Wrath is to Golden Shower), but also combining with Asgard's Valor extremely soon after in the post-DoG accessory boom. I suggest making Elysian Aegis a direct upgrade to Asgard's Valor instead of the weird half-successor half-direct upgrade to Valor it currently is. This also lets Providence's loot pool be a bit less weird and bloated, as biome specific drops are pretty awkward, and Providence already has one of the largest drop pools in the mod.

thoughts?

[idle dagger]

One thing to note

biome specific drops are dying iirc

she's just gonna drop both now

otherwise looks great

[wide river]

More reason to move one to a craft methinks

[echo leaf]

Lead armor

[echo kestrel]

Idk I kinda like that Elysian Aegis functions as a half-upgrade because now you're suddenly vulnerable to a lot of the immunities asgard's used to give

[vocal cedar]

She'll drop both yea
Still weird as a drop thou

[drowsy plank]

you forgot glad armor as well

[echo kestrel]

[echo leaf]

Gladiator armor too, yeah

[idle dagger]

Does any of the debuff immunities actually matter for the distortion nomads and polter

genuine question

[glass arch]

no

[drowsy plank]

please find me one of ankh's debuffs that an enemy that actually matters inflicts

they're just mildly annoying from random enemies

which sucks but

doesn't add any difficulty

[echo kestrel]

That strue

[crude geode]

Yeah

[glass arch]

ankhs debuff immunities become irrelevant as soon as you hit like golem

[crude geode]

Cursed when it makes me not play the game for ten seconds

[hollow shell]

My brain immediately went into overdrive trying to think of making debuffs meaningful

Quickly shit myself down when I thought
"wait. Eternity Mode"

[drowsy plank]

lo

[echo kestrel]

[idle dagger]

I love this accessory as a dash option but it's so funny that so much of it doesn't matter
especially the increase in fall damage resistance post-Moonlord like okay lmao

[glass arch]

cant believe it rover shit themself 😔

[drowsy plank]

This! Is why! Calamity! Should just! Make the debuffs less shit! I made a suggestion about this! It got ZERO TRACTION

[wide river]

Why do that when new furniture item

[glass arch]

im going to kill you 👍

[drowsy plank]

[echo kestrel]

Yeah, between making Elysian Aegis an actual upgrade or making enemies post-Elysian Aegis inflict relevant ankh shield debuffs, I think it's clear which one sacrifices less newborns

[crude geode]

We should make a game mode focused around debuffs and sheer cold and big heat and have both of them activate in space and have vines bleed you and-

[idle dagger]

I hope I open the besitary and see the Terrarian added and lists a set of debuff weaknesses

[vocal cedar]

Calamity giving the coolest debuff interaction system to enemies while the player is just on fire constantly

[crude geode]

No literally

[idle dagger]

if the player isn't on fire they are diseased

[drowsy plank]

TRUE

[idle dagger]

that's actually probably less fights than i imagine it is

[vocal cedar]

(not saying the player should have elemental weaknesses, but still)

[glass arch]

at least it isnt silenced which fucks over specifically mage and nobody else

[idle dagger]

sickness i mean

[crude geode]

and if they aren’t diseased they’re using warmth potion to kill cryogen’s will to live

[drowsy plank]

im not asking for debuffs to be spread out more i just mean change cursed and silence to just. DO SOMETHING ELSE. THEY'RE SO SHIT. WHY ARE THEY LIKE THAT.

[idle dagger]

i remember the conversation about silenced resulting in a (based) suggestion about it

[echo kestrel]

Gladiator armor?

[drowsy plank]

yes

vanilla did that

gave it knockback immune

[crude geode]

Redigit’s game was designed

[drowsy plank]

it sure was!

[wide river]

Was it though

[crude geode]

It was!

Just not very well

[vocal cedar]

One of the games of all time

[hollow shell]

Clearly the solution is to add more class-specific debuffs
"Weak Arms"
"Jammed Barrel"
"Unattractive"

[glass arch]

it was designed in the same way 3 year old me designed a lego set i was improvising

[idle dagger]

Calamity only has...2 accessory lines that have dodge in them, yeah? It's literally just brain and ninja?

[vocal cedar]

Hehe I am under that last debuff

[echo kestrel]

Does it still though?

[crude geode]

I think like 40% of terraria player characters would fall under that last debuff

[glass arch]

theres a reason i always have a helmet on

[drowsy plank]

https://terraria.wiki.gg/wiki/Gladiator_armor

[echo kestrel]

No I mean it does in vanilla

[drowsy plank]

...

[idle dagger]

I love making a player character model that I immediately cover up and never see the face of LMAO

[drowsy plank]

that is the vanilla wiki page

[echo kestrel]

Yes

[crude geode]

[drowsy plank]

well you listed cobalt shield and stuff didnt you?

you were listing all sources of knockback immunity

[echo kestrel]

Well I was but it's in the context of calamity mod

[drowsy plank]

you were missing lead armor and glad armor

i mean

it

still does that in cal

[echo kestrel]

Oh it does okay

Sorry I was going off of the vanilla changes page

I saw lead armor giving kb immunity

But wasn't sure about gladiator armor

[frail fox]

People are cooking up suggestions tonight damn

[glass arch]

the only glad change cal has was making it give rogue buffs

[idle dagger]

rooksby said it was empty so

we fixed that

[echo kestrel]

Smh I could be playing gfb true melee right now but I'm in sugg writing mood

[crude geode]

Usually that doesn’t happen, it just feels awkward

[dense locust]

barriers actually do prevent knockback if they fully absorb the hit iirc

[glass arch]

i got nothing better to do and i hadnt made a sugg for a while

so when i saw an empyrean armor sugg i knew what i had to do

and when cog said someone should make a sugg about elysian aegis i knew what i had to do

[echo kestrel]

I gotta say though it's nice to see #suggestions-discussion not being super abrasive lately lol

[drowsy plank]

well it's cause we're actually having constructive discussions instead of uhhhhhh

"add fortnite"

[echo kestrel]

[glass arch]

instead of the kill yourself gif

[drowsy plank]

💥

[vocal cedar]

[slim cairn]

What if i spontaneously combusted huh

Ngl i like the idea tho

Of making provis shield

Just an upgrade

[idle dagger]

feel like that one will pass tbh

[slim cairn]

Instead of a regular drop, it does make the thing a bit less bloated

[vocal cedar]

It is a good idea

[idle dagger]

extremely inoffesnive and overall great idea

easy pass

[drowsy plank]

can yall believe my suggestion about removing the hardmode lock from solar tablet didnt pass

im still a lil salty

[vocal cedar]

The what lock

[dense locust]

moon stone prehardmode too op trust

[slim cairn]

Thats sad

[glass arch]

yell at cit to citfix it

[drowsy plank]

the only event progression lock in the game

[vocal cedar]

Fym its locked how/why

[drowsy plank]

id probably bother angel to bother someone else like i usually do

[dense locust]

you cannot use solar tablet till hardmode

[idle dagger]

the last batch had a whopping 30 suggestions, and a whole TON of them good

[glass arch]

solar tablet doesnt do shit outside of hardmode

[drowsy plank]

vanilla adds a hardcoded lock that prevents you from using the solar tablet til hardmode

[vocal cedar]

Is it a vanilla change

?

[slim cairn]

While im not a dev id think its also a simple change too, just making asgards valor require divine geode and maybe uelibloom (though probably just geode would be fine)

[drowsy plank]

yes this is a vanilla thing

[slim cairn]

Id say thatd be enough, wouldnt it

[slim cairn]

For the upgrade i mean

[idle dagger]

yeah

[slim cairn]

To elysian

Not asgards itself lmao mb

[dense locust]

yes since hoiking into temple is real all of temple has to have anti fun locks because game design

[vocal cedar]

I guessed as much

Also "Anti fun blocks"

[drowsy plank]

woo hoo

it's funny bc

ravager doesnt have a lock

[idle dagger]

ravager is so damn funny
this guy causes so many peculiar things to occur

[drowsy plank]

and golem is losing the plantera lock
idk about the hardmode one but yeah
it's goofy

he is a funny guy

[slim cairn]

For now at least, later its gonna be post provi (rip low% runners)

[frosty trellis]

Wait really?

[idle dagger]

hearing that ravager's just gonna be sitting in the profaned biome allegedly is just beautiful

what is it doing there

[vocal cedar]

He's not sitting on an altar, he IS the altar

[idle dagger]

so damn funny

[dense locust]

I'll go double check in game but I remember it happening when I was using rover drive

[slim cairn]

Profanating things

[idle dagger]

I love it

[idle dagger]

apparently this may not change how many bosses you need to fight if his drops remain the same

I think it might be like 1 more

that depends on if summoning ravager requires provi dead though
which I think may be the case

provi not being mandatory for progression is so odd

[hollow shell]

The Aegis suggestion?
I'm unsure

The "combining with Asgard's Valor extremely soon after" is not solved by the suggestion, Elysian Aegis will still upgrade into Asgardian Aegis just as soon

[hollow shell]

(Uelibloom. Codebreaker.)

[idle dagger]

shimmer auric

[hollow shell]

fuck

[echo kestrel]

reword the suggestion instead as "make ravager automatically trigger a solar eclipse after being defeated"

[glass arch]

i finally found the gif

[lucid marsh]

When does the set of suggestions which my first try of the frost armor thing is in get processed?

[idle dagger]

next friday

1 week

[lucid marsh]

Ah

[drowsy plank]

i mean. it fixes the fact that making them do the same thing is pointless if ur just going to combine them a tier later, which is the more confusing part and bigger issue

[lucid marsh]

Ok

But it was posted several days ago

[hollow shell]

And this may just be me but I think it's kinda cool for you to briefly detour into a similar accessory that doesn't have all the same chaff as the one you're used to

Then when you combine them it feels natural

[glass arch]

the issue isnt with it upgrading into asgardian, the issue is with it being a halfway spiritual successor that combines with the spiritual predecessor

[drowsy plank]

like the functionality of the two is already almost a circle so what exactly is the point of not just making elysian an asguard upgrade?

[idle dagger]

every friday is sends posts "older than 7 days, younger than 14 days"

[lucid marsh]

Ah

Ok, I misunderstood

[idle dagger]

it was probably like 6 days old i presume

[drowsy plank]

ok but! it does!!! elysian and asguard are practically the same item but elysian is just better
it's already an upgrade in everything but a recipe!

[slim cairn]

It does solve the bloat issue on her drops though

It also fixes the gap a bit imo

Its mainly for drop bloat id say

[frosty trellis]

H U H
Fair enough

[slim cairn]

Ok this isnt true it was just me being dumb at 1am

But the former part about helping with provi drop bloat is true

[glass arch]

i mean hell even if it doesnt end up being an elysian drop it would still be a win in my book if it was like some random craft with unholy essence

[slim cairn]

Id say just slap some divine geode into it

[drowsy plank]

i think it's just stupid that elysian is an upgrade to aegis but isn't an upgrade and then. you just. combine them. like wow! i could've just done this a tier ago!

[glass arch]

i just want shit to not be so boss centric

[drowsy plank]

p much

[glass arch]

oh right those exist i forgor

[dense locust]

shield is so dumb if it fully absorbs btw you gain:
kb immunity
debuff immunity (except self inflicted)
halfed adren loss
defense damage immunity

[idle dagger]

the elysian tracers I hear are being moved to post providence
meaning you would upgrade both the tracers (hypothetical where you're using them) and the shield into their upgrades immediately after killing providence which is pretty neat