suggestions-discussion

[drowsy plank]

plus she reworked the revive already anyway

[spice stream]

ah

[drowsy plank]

eventually i dont even think auric will have it, and if the auric rework (somehow) fits into the next update then this will be double moot

[misty lichen]

this is still all wings with armor set bonuses. so is wing rework planned 😊

[drowsy plank]

no idea prolly not

i never said it was consistent this is just what i remember from the convo

[crude geode]

When god slayer hoverboard gets here in five years it will also not have an equivalent armor bonus

[drowsy plank]

i do remember discussing how it would be cool if wings with no bonus had higher stats and wings with worse stats had better bonuses and i think CIT said something about the idea but that is all i remember. you can prolly just scroll up

[crude geode]

Just kidding cuz god slayer hoverboard is never real, unlike the cart of gods

Actually wait cart is Patreon???

[spice stream]

devourer of cods clears unfortunately

[drowsy plank]

god slayer hoverboard makes me salty

[drowsy plank]

yes

[crude geode]

Wow

[spice stream]

if i had money i’d be pumped

[drowsy plank]

well you cant get items anymore so idk what u mean

[spice stream]

wdym

[dense ferry]

Wait there are more?

I can remember Spooky Armor/Wing but that's about it

[drowsy plank]

...did you seriously not remember? like almost every wing in the game that's tied in with a set does this

i can make a list if you want

[misty lichen]

40% of wings only have an effect when paired with an armor set

to the player it feels like 60% bc the wings that aren’t tied are shit like fin wings or mothron wings

[spice stream]

fin wings are goated!

[drowsy plank]

true but not the point

[misty lichen]

fin wings should only work while wearing an angler set

same effect

(/j)

[spice stream]

i feel the set bonuses with wings should be fairly small, mainly to promote using the tracers for optimal mobility

[misty lichen]

what

[harsh echo]

Optimal?

[spice stream]

did they nerf tracers

[harsh echo]

the wiki has a list

[dense ferry]

Yes

I seriously did not remember

It's been like, almost two years since I last played the game

[harsh echo]

[misty lichen]

my favorite type of developer

[drowsy plank]

• Starlight Wings and Daedalus armor
• Hadal Mantle and Hydrothermic armor
• Exodus Wings and Empyrean armor
• Tarragon Wings and Tarragon armor
• Silva Wings and Silva armor
• Frozen Wings and Frost armor
• Spectre Wings and Spectre armor
• Leaf Wings and Tiki armor
• Hoverboard and Shroomite armor
• Beetle Wings and Beetle armor
• Spooky Wings and Spooky armor
• Every single Lunar wing and their appropriate armors

[royal tapir]

Join us Rebecca

[drowsy plank]

you can even say that anymore CIT ur playing calamity with us rn smh
reb should've join the run too then she could remember the game

[patent marsh]

[royal tapir]

Yes that's what I mean

[drowsy plank]

fair

[patent marsh]

How about titan heart armor

[royal tapir]

So that you too can notice things like Mimic loot pools and Jungle Temple generation being fucked in Remix

[patent marsh]

no wings

[drowsy plank]

yeah no it doesnt have wings

why would it have wings lmao

[echo leaf]

give molten armor wings >:(

[patent marsh]

for its stats it shouldnt have wings

[spice stream]

would titan heart armor have a hoverboard

[patent marsh]

Balanced fr

[drowsy plank]

we should give stat bonuses to skyline while wearing aerilite this will fix the mod

[royal tapir]

Flame Wings effect while wearing Molten armor
Welcome back Bone Wings

[drowsy plank]

🤯

[spice stream]

for real

[patent marsh]

Norway

[drowsy plank]

make frostflare armor by combining frost armor and molten armor

[royal tapir]

Genius

[slim cairn]

Moonlord wings should get buffs ngl

[spice stream]

that idea’s so crazy it just might work!

[slim cairn]

Literally just using solar is the optimal choice

On all classes

[drowsy plank]

huh

[slim cairn]

Mages suffer the worst with their set wings imo

[slim cairn]

Solar flight time is just too good to pass up, not just that, ranger and mage wings are sorta ass

[drowsy plank]

yeah nebula mantle sucks but also that point about solar is just
not correct

[harsh echo]

Hadarian wings are astral themed

[slim cairn]

Stat wise

[slim cairn]

Its mostly because of the flight time

And general wing stats for it

[drowsy plank]

ranged is fine and stardust is literally the same as solar

[misty lichen]

this is why wing discussion is never taken seriously

[slim cairn]

I forgot about stardust ngl lol so you got a point

[drowsy plank]

empyrean is also the same

[slim cairn]

But yeah at the very least nebula needs a buff

[drowsy plank]

the only ones that are kinda mid are nebula mantle yeah

[slim cairn]

The bonuses are genuinely sorta pitiful for the stats

[drowsy plank]

tbf it's not like nebula needed the help

[royal tapir]

Solar, Stardust, and Exodus are the fast vertical wings
Vortex and Nebula are the cool hovers, except that Celestial Starboard exists so oops

[crude geode]

Expert Mode moment

[slim cairn]

Vortex is at least decent tbh

[echo leaf]

Vortex and nebula are trying their best

[slim cairn]

iirc nebula has even worse stats doesnt it? Let me double check

[drowsy plank]

maybe one the dash bug celestial starboard had is fixed in the release version, then that will matter

for now starboard is kinda mid

[echo leaf]

They would appreciate a lil love

[slim cairn]

True

[echo leaf]

nebula and vortex share the same stats

[royal tapir]

I thought the dash bug was fixed back in like 1.4.1

[slim cairn]

Alright thanks

[drowsy plank]

no u guys literally got a bug report for it like last month

[royal tapir]

Wild?

[drowsy plank]

i remember this because habble posted the source code in CCC

yeah

[slim cairn]

The main issue with nebula vs vortex is that at the very least

Vortex armor works with the hover

Nebula armor doesnt really care for hover or the wing bonuses

[drowsy plank]

it was fixed for vanilla sure, but calamity isn't using the variable so its dashes are still cucked, and even then im not even sure the fix 100% worked

[royal tapir]

Okay I'm not crazy

[drowsy plank]

yes but like i said
cal didn't use the fix

timeSinceLastDashStarted or something
ur in the server CIT so i can just;
#1030923579862302880 message
there

[misty lichen]

oh so it only happens with dash hotkey

L

[drowsy plank]

yup lo

[royal tapir]

Okay I got it

Time to never use dash hotkey again

[golden sonnet]

I already don't, problem solved

Idk why you guys are having issues

[novel belfry]

i saw a steamcard scam bot just appear for less than a second in #suggestions-posting

[hollow shell]

indeed

[hollow verge]

@lavish citrus i dont think i understand why this suggestion should go through

[violet zephyr]

What?

[hollow verge]

does ravager need new lore or not?

[violet zephyr]

No.

[hollow verge]

your suggestion doesnt really take a stance

slime im not replying to you

[lavish citrus]

Well I mean if they WANT to make new lore for it

[violet zephyr]

shuhs

[echo kestrel]

I mean with the rework and new sprite it ideally would anyway

[hollow verge]

then why make a suggestion about it at all? it feels silly to go "hey do you guys want to do this?". you dont provide any actual reasons that it should have new lore.

[violet zephyr]

Ravager already has lore set up for it that is going to be put in once Ravager's new content is able to be put in.

[lavish citrus]

Oh

[echo kestrel]

If by some miracle Ravager's lore stays the same once he gets the rework and sprite

By all means make the suggestion

[violet zephyr]

Like most things in New Lore, it is simply waiting until said content gets reworked.

[lavish citrus]

It was dumb for me to put the lore thing

[hollow verge]

putting aside that "retiering and redoing this boss comes with new lore", i just dont understand why you'd make a suggestion of "do this or not, idc" like take a stance

[violet zephyr]

It will be the same, because New Lore was made with the intention of not needing to retcon anything.

[echo kestrel]

Sweet, alright then

[drowsy plank]

@lavish citrus flagging for lack of reasoning and future content suggestion

[echo kestrel]

Are mushroom planetoids guaranteed on worldgen?

[errant wren]

i heard that they weren't but i can't confirm

[drowsy plank]

think so idk

[errant wren]

i think i didn't have mushroom planetoids a few times so they probably aren't guaranteed

[echo kestrel]

I'm just basing it off of the wiki and it seems yeah it isn't quite guaranteed, the wording is uncommon

[whole tundra]

Ignoring it not being well written

Unclear if it's to keep or replace the current lore

[errant wren]

if you're gonna suggest for at least one to be guaranteed, go ahead

[echo kestrel]

Yeah this is ultimately what I decided on when I was discussing my ideas for a Truffle QoL sorta thing

It used to be either allowing Truffle to move in underground

Or even so far as allowing spectre bars to be shimmered into shroomite

But I let it simmer and figured

Probably the most unintrusive way to go about it is just guaranteeing a mushroom planetoid

[drowsy plank]

yeah that seems reasonable

part of the whole truffle deal is a tutorial on making artificial biomes, so i like him being surface only

i remember when cal used to have an exclusive drop for the surface exclusive mushroom biome enemy...

need more stuff like that

[errant wren]

i don't think there's anyone that would disagree with a guaranteed mushroom planetoid in the world

[echo kestrel]

I think the only one I can recall right off the top of my head right now is if your astral infection doesn't spawn on desert

So the only way you can get hadarian wings is if you make an astral desert

[fleet grotto]

this ravager lore sugg SUCKS...

[echo kestrel]

welp, it's up

and for the record, I don't even play ranger lmao

the idea just came up when I needed an autohammer specifically for fargo's crucible of the cosmos

[misty lichen]

isnt it already nigh guaranteed?

[echo kestrel]

It's uncommon according to the wiki, which means you have the off chance of needing to make the biome when you specifically choose to play ranger for your playthrough

Might as well make it consistent and guarantee one

[fleet grotto]

Multiple times I've shot storm surge and the projectile just doesnt hit despite visually colliding

[misty lichen]

wouldn’t this be a bug report

[olive saddle]

I can see both

[errant wren]

i think it's more to do with a type of consistency

because i think the visual might be a bit confusing

not that i really remember what it looks like

[distant gyro]

i just fixed stuff like terratomere's short slash, thrown hydra head, gelitic blade wave, cryophobia wave so ill deal with that

also omniblade sorta

[errant wren]

#suggestions-posting message i think the astral meteor (and thus the infection) has the same kind of code for normal meteors, in that i'm pretty sure that it specifically avoids chests

can't really confirm

[drowsy plank]

@jagged zealot this should be in #1052323733961977947 and yes ^ as said above structure specifically avoid chests because i am 99% sure if a structure actually manages to overwrite a chest stuff usually starts going down the shitter in terms of file stability, plus, as you can see, there were 0 chests in that structure

[jagged zealot]

plus, as you can see, there were 0 chests in that structure

Okay, just because there wasn't doesn't mean it invalidates it alone. Just means luckily there was no chests.

Besides also stated above it was "pretty sure" but "can't really confirm"

Calamity is not vanilla, and I would not have any clue how cal is coded as I don't really poke around in code. But I will remove post,

[errant wren]

cog just confirmed the information i gave...

[jagged zealot]

They replied to you message though, which is reiterating everything you said though...

[errant wren]

well i mean the point is that yes, the astral meteor is specifically programmed to not go near chests to avoid the situation that it would destroy it

same as with vanilla meteors

if it there was a chest and it did hit as you showed, there would be a need for a bug report

[jagged zealot]

want me to go ask then?

[errant wren]

i think there was a similar sugg a while back talking about the same thing..

[drowsy plank]

"means luckily there was no chests"
no that is a thing. if you overwrite chests with tiles you're going to cause file corruptions, this isn't just a like. "oh no my items things" i mean like it destabilizes your world if you break a chest tile without getting rid of the items in it first. this is why there are exploits related to breaking chests in half because it remove the chest attributes, and why you can't blow them up, and why vanilla also does checks for chests, and a bunch of other junk. it physically cannot hit tiles where there are chests because there would be bigger problems if the monolith actually overwrote the chest. this isn't luck, this is hard coded.

[errant wren]

you could ask if you wanted, just stating the facts

and yeah i guess cog also explained it in more detail

[jagged zealot]

And I am saying I could go find out.

[errant wren]

i'm not stopping you

[jagged zealot]

okay? 🤨

[novel belfry]

basically this is why chests are the strongest tiles in the game

[drowsy plank]

ture

[crude geode]

If you put Yharim in a chest it would probably beat him

[fleet grotto]

No that would make yharim invincible

[novel belfry]

he might actually be able to beat xeroc if he's in a chest

but can he defeat the shadow wizard money gang tho?

[fleet grotto]

No

Actually

Maybe

[idle dagger]

no wonder it's a called a chestplate

it's wearing chest armour...the most invincible

[drowsy plank]

@wild pond can you... elaborate on what this means, exactly?

[errant wren]

i imagine that the sugg is saying to make it so that, if you're in the abyss and somehow out of the water, that "safe" walls would prevent you from taking damage

which...

[golden sonnet]

Can't you not break the walls in the abyss?

[errant wren]

no i don't think so

[drowsy plank]

i mean even if you could doesn't this defeat the purpose of the abyss

you'd just wall chain like how people used to avoid death mode heat/cold

[errant wren]

that's what i was going to say

[drowsy plank]

actually on this note; why not just make this suggestion be "add a way to build in the abyss"

there

problem solved

valid sugg

[median scaffold]

Doesn't water prevent you from building most of the time?

[errant wren]

not entirely i don't think

[median scaffold]

Water is such a weird substance in Terraria....

[golden sonnet]

Water has no affect on building

Nor does honey

Just lava

[median scaffold]

Oh

...huh

[glass arch]

unless said building is torches

[golden sonnet]

Or wall furniture yeah

Like it breaks some objects, but doesn't stop placing of walls or tiles

[patent marsh]

They should give Muramasa pickaxe/saw power because it can cut building and trees in mgr

Actually screw that why cant we have Blade mode with it

[median scaffold]

>Doesn't deal damage
>Is absolutely useless in building

[wild pond]

It just for base building

Nk one is crazy enough to fully replace all walls in abyss

[olive saddle]

I second adding some kind of way to give super dummies armor but I feel super dummies in general are flawed since they attract people to try it on the dummy vs the boss itself

[sand marlin]

Just use mods that do that

The closer you replicate a boss with dummies the less point it has in existence when you can just fight the boss instead

[patent marsh]

I also want dummies to have defense and DR

[oblique otter]

why not give it attacks too so we can learn how to dodge

:cluele

[patent marsh]

Oh and also give them Phases

and immunity frames

[umbral gazelle]

ughhh not the another super dummy

i already hate it when my friend shove my face with the "use this it has high dps" when its literally being tested against super dummy

"why use Fabstaff? Apotheosis has more dps" they said

[violet zephyr]

Apotheosis when it sucks ass on every boss:

[echo leaf]

The best weapon for a mage build to use in early hardmode is Submarine Shocker because it deals the most damage against dummies

[oblique otter]

this sounds complicated

though idk anything about coding

[hollow verge]

if it's too complicated, the devs will decide that

[echo leaf]

I'm pretty sure LuiAFK and... I thiiiink Quality of Terraria already has a similar feature

[echo kestrel]

Yeah quality of terraria has a dummy you can use / commands to set attributes about it

[harsh echo]

Hmm

[grim tusk]

Ngl a dummy like this could work for CalTestHelpers too

Although you’d still rather test on the fucking boss

[drowsy plank]

lmao

[ripe owl]

Still, write that down

Or idk, guess we could poke midnight to add it to Imo's QoL

[spice stream]

why use dummies in general, in what instance are they helpful to check dps on a boss that functions completely differently

[drowsy plank]

honestly i always assumed that super dummy was made for wiki gifs rather than actual testing

wiki gifs and functionality tests for coding

[harsh echo]

that is very plausible

just that most people use it as a testing dummy shrug

[misty lichen]

my problem with dummy suggestions is it’ll literally never end until they’re “perfect”. once they have a defense value people will ask for moving dummies. then people will start asking for dummies with bigger hitboxes. then it’ll be dummies that do your taxes

people will start asking for dummies that copy boss ai

[violet zephyr]

At some point, dummies will just be a boss that don't drop anything.

[harsh echo]

that'svery close to my suggestion

seems like you are saying the issue is the slippery slope of continuing to suggest more features

[misty lichen]

my issue is that there’s no reason to do this

dummies work fine as just a standalone quick way to view weapon properties

[harsh echo]

that's in theory, most people do use dummies for dps testing lol

[misty lichen]

dummies no longer show dps numbers

[harsh echo]

the tooltip could be changed to include a disclaimer but people can't read

Dps meter exists?

[spice stream]

remove dummies just to mess with people

[violet zephyr]

Dummies now have too much defense, making them very bad for viewing DPS.

[harsh echo]

Real

[spice stream]

fr

[harsh echo]

Next episode in cal help

[misty lichen]

people say “defense” as the quick justification for why dummies are bad at dps testing, but that’s like the tippity top of the iceberg

[violet zephyr]

Make an icerberg meme but with why dummies are bad for testing.

[harsh echo]

That would include like 3 entries?

[spice stream]

8000, try again

[misty lichen]

way more than 3 man

remind me in like 2 hours

[harsh echo]

Maybe 4 if we count some on-hit effects

[misty lichen]

once you start thinking about it for even a little bit it expands and expands

[violet zephyr]

Debuffs (Debuff damage does not show on DPS Meter)

[harsh echo]

🤔

[violet zephyr]

Accuracy.

Piercing.

Too many things to think about.

[drowsy plank]

god "piercing" as a single entry isn't even getting into the beginning of it

[harsh echo]

Arguing about the specifics isn't gonna get us anywhere

[violet zephyr]

I was more thinking of placing multiple dummies which would give inflated numbers.

[drowsy plank]

piercing is such a complex system and there are multiple ways it works like how it works on worms vs. large entities and how dummies fail to account for both of these

that also!!!

there are so many fuckin ways dummies completely fail to demonstrate anything about piercing

[harsh echo]

does anyone have specific feedback on my suggestion?

[drowsy plank]

welcome back patchwork joost(?) mod
or was that in fargos
i do not remember at all

[harsh echo]

I think it's flawed tbh cause there are some effects that require you to be damaged

Your better off actually testing on the boss still ?
Dummies are still too inaccurate to be left

[drowsy plank]

fuckin uhhhhhh
mirror blade that's another big one

[harsh echo]

dummies are contributing to misinformation and should be fixed (even if not perfectly)

[drowsy plank]

well like schmoovi said this is under the presumption that they are broken and not that people are just misusing them

[misty lichen]

local iframe jeremy

the guy you knew in high school that has 5 local iframes now for no fucking reason

one venom staff projectile can hit aureus like 4 times we cannot be serious

[harsh echo]

Aureus deus all the same shit now.

[whole tundra]

@surreal lake no.

[hollow verge]

[whole tundra]

I should not even have to explain why

[spice stream]

excellence

[harsh echo]

This is

[surreal lake]

ahahhahaha

[harsh echo]

Bait It's bait

[surreal lake]

imagine, 3d calamity game

[hollow verge]

but i like 2d games :(

[harsh echo]

[spice stream]

oh em gee we got got so hard by that epic troll

[harsh echo]

what if you were 2d

[hollow verge]

pogggg finally

[worthy lintel]

standalone calamity is never happening

a man can dream though

[slim cairn]

Aureus is a worm boss confirmed
(Yes i know the difference between Aureus and Deus this is a joke)

[crude geode]

Aureus is a slime smh my head

[harsh echo]

it is a space crab

[gaunt needle]

#suggestions-posting message

Remove the super dummy

long suggestion with main points being

• innacurate at best for testing weapons
• allows to reach entity limit with no effort

[gritty plaza]

The entity limit has always been a suggestion

Target dummies are hardly any harder you just have to use the sickle for five minutes instead of five seconds

[gaunt needle]

you do still have to place them (and also remove when you want the entity count back to normal)

[misty lichen]

isnt it like target dummies don’t despawn and super dummies do?

or am i wrong

[gaunt needle]

target dummies can despawn if you are far away iirc

[grim tusk]

Top:
Defense
DR

Middle:
Hitbox size, Boss’ Movement, pierce

Bottom:
your movement while dodging the boss, Debuffs

[misty lichen]

either way this could easily be fixed by having a limit on super dummy count in the world

like only 20 can exist at a time

[gaunt needle]

sure, but why is super dummy needed at all?

[grim tusk]

Then you just use Fargo’s super dummy

[grim tusk]

Because Minions dont target regular dummies and neither does homing stuff

[misty lichen]

fargos is not calamity what are you talking about

[grim tusk]

Thats literally it

[misty lichen]

for quickly viewing weapon properties without needing to fight a target

[gaunt needle]

By spawning a handful of Super Dummies, enemy spawns will cease, due to Super Dummies counting towards the enemy max spawn. This can be very handy for building in high-spawn locations such as the Jungle.
Be wary of where the dummies are spawned, however, as if the player moves too far away from a cluster of them, they are prone to despawning.

it's even on the wiki lmao

[harsh echo]

WOW, this is insane!

[grim tusk]

And on gfb they will kill you

[gaunt needle]

fair enough i guess, but still, do you really need the super dummy for that? wouldn't vanilla one be enough?

[crude geode]

I sure do love having to test my minions on random slimes or eye of Cthulhu in vanilla

[misty lichen]

vanilla dummy is nothing but a hitbox

[gaunt needle]

and for homing weapons and minions dummy testing is even more irrelevant since you really have to take enemy movement into account

[misty lichen]

STOP DUMMY TESTING

[crude geode]

Super dummy is so there’s better gifs on the wiki

[misty lichen]

it was never accurate in the first place and never will be

[crude geode]

Instead of skeleton or mimic gif 500 like vanilla

[misty lichen]

stop insisting on it as the only
purpose of the item

[gaunt needle]

what is the other purpose?

[grim tusk]

And for close range stuff even more

“Why is not [true melee] good?, it deals 3 times more dmg on the dummy “

[gaunt needle]

honestly true melee looks so fun

[echo leaf]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/893924166925955104/1268262256693612554/trueMeleeLocket.gif

[errant wren]

uhh

sure is staying there for a bit...

[hollow verge]

ah that poor bastard

that's a shame

been here for years and got caught in a common scam

[errant wren]

doesn't the bot or whatever kick in by now...?

[hollow verge]

yeah

ig it's down

[errant wren]

i only saw it take one of the links down

[hollow verge]

mods have probably noticed tho ig u could ping one

[misty lichen]

oh this is a cool new feature

[hollow verge]

i was noticing that

[errant wren]

ah there we go

[misty lichen]

discord good change?

[errant wren]

also i think it's been a feature for a bit

i've seen it a few times

[misty lichen]

if it has been then its never fucking worked until now

[errant wren]

usually depends on how active the spam is, or something

i don't really know actually

[hollow verge]

^

[sand marlin]

It's been a thing for several months at least iIr

It just never worked

I've actually seen more innocent people get marked off as spammer than anything notable

[echo leaf]

the only time i've seen this is on discord system messages

[lucid marsh]

I do kind of think that super dummy sucks. It doesn't make sense to have it if it is so bad at the thing you'd think it is meant to be good for

[median scaffold]

Super dummy sucks, I agree with that

[lucid marsh]

having some kind of boss mimic that does 1 damage and moves in a simplified pattern would be useful, perhaps

[violet zephyr]

Super Dummy was made to imitate Dummies, not to replace them.

[median scaffold]

I like the idea of a customizable enemy that you use for testing stuff without getting hurt

[lucid marsh]

I don't agree with this. It is a dummy that works better than a normal dummy. If it was intended that way, it doesn't make sense

[violet zephyr]

Their only purpose is to have dummies work with homing weapons and summons.

[lucid marsh]

That much makes sense

it should replace regular dummies then

but also, what is the purpose of a dummy in the first place?

(it's to test weapons)

[median scaffold]

(It is to showcase them, smh )

[violet zephyr]

Basic testing. To see how it works against enemies. Not to be used as a measure of which weapon would be best.

[lucid marsh]

I don't agree

At the very least, there should be a dummy that is a good test

[olive saddle]

that is called a boss

[violet zephyr]

It would be funny if someone had already made that joke. Oh, wait.
#suggestions-discussion message

[lucid marsh]

not a joke, it should exist

[gaunt needle]

bosses do exist tho

[lucid marsh]

I mean, not exactly that, but something similar

A boss that can't kill you and doesn't drop anything, but does all the things that bosses do that tend to affect weapons

like having segments sometimes, or having stats

or moving

[gaunt needle]

(testing on a boss in a test world using cheat mods)

[violet zephyr]

At that point, just fight the boss. Unless you are specifically testing weapons to see which is most viable for a guide, this is pointless.

And if you are testing weapons for a guide, then you can just make a seperate world with all the cheat mods and DPS calculators.

[lucid marsh]

then why test anything?

[gaunt needle]

the most accurate way to test the weapon in a certain situation is using the weapon in that exact situation

[median scaffold]

Why do we need Dummies in the first place........

[lucid marsh]

I thought it was obvious that I would want to test the weapon without going to the hassle of testing on the boss

[slim cairn]

If you want to test it accurately why not use it in a boss with godmode on

Otherwise you wont be able to accurately test the weapon

Even if the dummy shared the model with said boss

[lucid marsh]

because I don't want to enable cheats or switch to a different world just to see how a weapon does

[errant wren]

didn't this discussion happen ages ago

[lucid marsh]

I thought that was the point of dummies. It certainly was to me, before I learned that dummies are bad

[slim cairn]

Its never gonna be reliable though

[violet zephyr]

It happened a few hours ago with people who had recognised this is an awful idea.

[wide river]

And it will continue to happen until dummies become entirely irrelevant

[slim cairn]

Theres literally not a single game where dummies are used to accurately test a weapon lol

[lucid marsh]

I doubt that but ok

[gaunt needle]

the regular dummy is more than enough for a quick glance at how the weapon functions
anything more than that is way too specific for each individual boss so it wouldn't give accurate readings anyways

[lucid marsh]

might as well remove dummies entirely

[errant wren]

no i meant like this entire discussion has already happened

[slim cairn]

Super dummies are fine and this whole discussion is a big waste of time imo

It will be more of a hassle to try and do something more specific

[lucid marsh]

I don't see a single point to them existing

[slim cairn]

However thats for the devs to decide

Not me

[lucid marsh]

because the one thing they seem like they should do, they actually suck at

[gaunt needle]

clogging up the entity limit

[slim cairn]

What would you do though and how would you ensure that it doesnt affect the actual bosses if you make them act like those

[errant wren]

the only thing i could say to "improve" dummies is to make them randomly move occasionally for target practice or something

not a good idea but that's the only thing i could come up with

[slim cairn]

Not you specifically but hopefully you get the point

[lucid marsh]

1: Remove the normal super dummy
2: Add some kind of fancy "target practice machine"
The machine projects targets around itself with shapes and movement patterns that mimic common boss movements (like charging, circling the player, burrowing, or sitting at a position relative to the player). You can set it to "worm mode" where it makes a segmented boss, or "blob mode" where it makes one big target. The stats can be set on a scale that mimics different points at progression. For example, level 1 mimics the stats of EoC, level 2 is BoC, level 3 is queen bee, level 4 is slime god, and so on

[slim cairn]

If you think it could work then itd probably be worth asking sola to add to the suggestion or suggest yourself tbh

[lucid marsh]

It could work, it's just a lot of effort

but it seems obvious that an entity with the stats and movement patterns of an existing boss should give the same results

[errant wren]

roughly the same, i'd imagine

[lucid marsh]

Sure, it just has to be pretty close to how weapons really act at their tier, instead of completely different, like the super dummy does

[median scaffold]

In my opinion, the player should be able to choose movement patterns and stats independently from each other
And probably making a level system to the movement patterns would be nice to have. Higher level = faster or / and more agressive movement

[lucid marsh]

sure, that would be great too

[median scaffold]

...that's even more effort, so this idea is technically a con

[errant wren]

it honestly feels more like something a separate mod should add than cal

but yeah definitely a high-effort sugg to implement

[median scaffold]

I completely agree with that

Probably something like CTH, DragonLens or Imogen's QoL

[drowsy plank]

what if we removed super dummies and moved them to CalTestHelpers so this stops being a main mod issue completely

[median scaffold]

Can we make a suggestion-cth-posting specifically to bring super dummies back to Calamity if that ever happens?

[errant wren]

[drowsy plank]

awful

[glass arch]

no dont put them in cth thatll attribute them with actual testing

[wide river]

What if we just tested off of vibes
"This feels cool, S tier"

[fossil finch]

this but unironically

[median scaffold]

Arc Nova Diffuser is going into SS tier

[misty lichen]

many schizophrenic opinions today

[median scaffold]

Imagine every summon going into Z tier becauze it is not used by the player

[echo leaf]

Caustic Dragon gets F instead because it's cute

[olive saddle]

I thini super dunny should be a summon and it acts like mad dummy and blocks projectiled from bosddes thats a good ides

[median scaffold]

Caustic Dragon gets S instead because it's cute

[drowsy plank]

fair, but then people would also need to download that mod lol

[median scaffold]

Ah, lovely. Make summons even better for non-summoners

[novel belfry]

Just add an armored super dummy

[misty lichen]

i still want stationary aureus in cth

so i can easily tell how many times a weapon with low iframes will hit any given boss

[echo leaf]

Astrum Aureus dummy

[violet zephyr]

So, a buffed Crabulon?

[misty lichen]

slightly taller crabulon

[hollow shell]

We need to add a coolness variable to the game and buff/nerf weapons based on how cool they are

Seashine Sword too boring?
No problem just add +10 to its item.coolness and its cool, problem solved

[echo leaf]

"Nerfed Wave Pounder Coolness"

[violet zephyr]

Coolness is actually determined by how much the weapon blinds the user with overly-saturated shaders.

[olive saddle]

A weapon being balanced around how cool it is sounds like a banger game

Gun? Boring, shit damage
Cluster bomb gun with giant explosions that you throw at aj enemy like a boomerang? Amazing, stupidly high damage

[harsh echo]

ranger in shambles

[echo leaf]

REAL

[olive saddle]

Melee winning

[drowsy plank]

lmfao as if

[olive saddle]

Wait no ranger isnt in shambles

Summoner is dealing zero damage

[errant wren]

hey don't say that, you're going to hurt the 4 summoner players' feelings

[harsh echo]

one weapon

[drowsy plank]

honestly 90% of terraria weapons would be useless

[harsh echo]

a deep implication

[drowsy plank]

come play terraria we have

• 400 identical swords
• 200 identical projectile swords
• 200 identical guns
• 100 identical bows
• 50 identical summons

and maybe a handful of actually unique weapons outside of that

[violet zephyr]

Give them all shaders, people will think they are unique when you do that.

[lucid marsh]

Coolness could give projectile ricochet and burst fire at close range or something, both very cool features for a weapon

[harsh echo]

🤔

marksman and nailgun from ultrakill

good idea

[violet zephyr]

It worked for Excalibur and True Excalibur.

[harsh echo]

wait

noo i was tricked byu the shader

[lucid marsh]

Ultra stupid idea: fix all balance issues by making bosses constantly take exactly the intended amount of DPS they should for their intended kill time as long as you're attacking them with a weapon of the right tier

[drowsy plank]

welcome back reactive damage reduction

[lucid marsh]

Though tbh I can see this system actually being good in some games, just not terraria

[harsh echo]

why not terraria

[lucid marsh]

And I meant more directly, by having the weapons not do any real damage at all, and instead fake all of it

[drowsy plank]

because RDR fucking sucked ass and that's what it was

[errant wren]

make it so that you go through a full loop of the boss theme to reach the next phase or kill

[lucid marsh]

Too different from the already designed system, and some weapons are meant to be better than others, part of the fun comes from finding good ones

[harsh echo]

hmm

could have a point though some cool looking weapons aren't meta

[lucid marsh]

But it's important to consider that in some genre of games, boss fights don't involve DPS at all, it's simply about dodging and finding the time to attack. 3D platformers especially.

[novel belfry]

i think the reason why people like shaders is because yknow

it looks better than the previous stuff

[lucid marsh]

These solve the issue of balance by making everything scripted. If done badly, this is incredibly boring. If done well, it's great.

[hollow shell]

This is beyond ideal for ensuring a fun player experience

Some games end up this way by a combination of power creep and coolness creep occurring simultaneously

Warframe, notably.

You find that Warframe tier lists are almost always topped with new content while old content sits at the bottom
And that new content is almost always cool with modern effects and alt fires and neat usecases
while old weapons are just like "sword.", "gun that shoots a bullet.".

Nobody is asking for that boring shit to just get stat buffs to become viable
because using the new stuff that is currently viable is way more fun than using that old stuff

[echo leaf]

Can't really say it better myself

#1 factor for a weapon is fun

[lucid marsh]

Calamity seems to have the problem of "Sometimes I can't use the cool option because it's not good enough for someone of my skill level to make progress with"

[lucid marsh]

this is also easier to do in live service games that keep adding new progression at the end

[hollow shell]

I did a playthrough of Calamity + Thorium a while back
and that's a classic mistake because the mods are balanced differently. Calamity stuff is simply tuned to be stronger in raw numbers than Thorium stuff is.

Thorium had a lot of cool stuff I wanted to use! But they all sucked ass stat/damage-wise in comparison to equivalent Calamity content, so I always felt like I was handicapping myself by using the cool stuff

(this was years ago. I don't know if the balance discrepancy has changed since then)

[lucid marsh]

I could be mistaken, but it seems like calamity makes so many changes that touch vanilla balance, directly or indirectly, that it just isn't feasible to use things together

maybe that's not true anymore. I'd have to test it

[olive saddle]

the solution is to get a buddy and play healer

[lucid marsh]

thorium seems designed for multiplayer

[olive saddle]

I love it for that

[lucid marsh]

that's cool, but I've only ever seen like a dozen people play terraria in multiplayer ever

[hollow shell]

(I loved playing healer)

[hollow shell]

I actually don't think it's inaccurate to say that most of my playthroughs of Terraria, total, have been multiplayer

[lucid marsh]

huh

I've never done it

[hollow shell]

s'just more fun when you got a friend

[wide river]

I definitely find Terraria more enjoyable with a friend
I can't bring myself to pick up the game in singleplayer, anyway

[lucid marsh]

I don't have friends with the same schedule as me that also play terraria

[crude geode]

It’s a very popular niche to play terraria in multiplayer

[echo leaf]

I wanna play multiplayer terraria as a mp tank

It's so interesting playing the game so differently

[grave zinc]

@fleet grotto - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make Storm Surge's projectile hitbox correctly grow in size]

It has officially been implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[slim cairn]

That was fast

[grave zinc]

@lucid marsh - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make Silva wings buff auric armor's Silva revive, or something similar]

It has been decided that your suggestion can neither be passed nor denied; either the devs have already made plans that conflict with it, or they have decided to implement an altered version.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[distant gyro]

that in advance

sry

[lucid marsh]

Huh

[crude geode]

Bolted

[lucid marsh]

Well, it's better than it being completely rejected

Are you allowed to tell me more?

[distant gyro]

silva wings wont be having a revive buff

at all

[lucid marsh]

Ah

It was kinda OP

But it was really cool

[slim cairn]

Pretty sure the silva revive effect will turn into an accessory @lucid marsh

iirc

[lucid marsh]

Even better

[slim cairn]

So silva the armor itself is gonna have a different effect

[novel belfry]

eh

[glass arch]

the balance discrepancy has flipped

so much thorium shit is broken beyond belief

[hollow shell]

pog?

Is that just Thorium on its own though or is it true when you do Calamity + Thorium too

[glass arch]

cal+thorium crossmod

idk how thorium is on its own

[hollow shell]

Gotcha

pog.

[glass arch]

but i know it and cal have some fucking crazy synergies and also thrower has white dwarf armor

[novel belfry]

i distinctly remember years ago me using the omnibow from thorium and shredding providence with it

yeah

that providence

[distant gyro]

providence is probably the point where thorium will completely flip the balance on calamity the most

because cal inherently makes its post ml weaker

weapon nerfs, equipment nerfs, other products of 1.5

[novel belfry]

no but this was like

many MANY YEARS AGO

[hollow shell]

I do remember using melee Tide Turner Armor throughout all of Cal Post-ML in one of my earlier playthroughs

10 seconds of invincibility plus an effective full heal, every 60 seconds,
is pretty damn good

[novel belfry]

like all the way in 1.3.5

that old

[hollow shell]

(I am shocked it still has that effect today by the way)

[novel belfry]

i mean

its like, post finalboss?

[golden sonnet]

white dwarf has % damage, and kills even superbosses in like 30 seconds

thanks thorium

[hollow shell]

indeed

I spose that's our benefit for having the Boss Rush with no reward at the end
We still have to balance our endgame content

[crude geode]

I mean it's up to opinion tbfh

I personally like the end game broken shit thorium has, but I know why it's fucked for cal playthroughs

[glass arch]

~minute 30 byeah

[crude geode]

same reason why starboard and rod of harmony are broken in vanilla

[hollow shell]

Indeed.

If Th+Cal playthroughs were common enough then Calamity probably world enforce some crossmod balancing on stuff like Tide Turner and White Dwarf

But as it is, not really worth it

Makes me very sad to say it, but, I don't think Thorium is ever gonna really increase in popularity again

[crude geode]

same

[wide river]

Unless they have a big update like Cal does that makes it omega flashy and super hype and whatever the community wants these days
Yeah probably not

"Like that's ever gonna happen" Shrek gif

[crude geode]

even then

[hollow shell]

I saw they were doing boss reworks a while back, iunno if anything came of that yet

[crude geode]

the last thing I heard was thrower reworks

honestly probably one of the mods hit hardest by journey's end

[drowsy plank]

what even are the other big mods at this point

[wide river]

Most of the ones I can think of either once were big mods or are just Cal addons

Do we count Spirit? Fargo's? Stars Above? Are these "big" by today's standards still?

[hollow shell]

Starlight River? Split?

How's Mod of Redemption doing?

[sleek turret]

they're chilling I guess

occasional update here and there but developing for the big release I think

slr is indeed big, really awesome

spooky might be considered as well

[drowsy plank]

Calamity, Thorium, Stars Above, Starlight River, Fargo's, Spirit

in terms of most downloads of all time

[lucid marsh]

I remember Spirit and Split

They seemed great, but then...

Yuyutsu left spirit and the remaining team only managed a 1.4 port on their own

Oh wait actually I think they also did some ocean stuff

But then after that, the mod kinda died

Idk what's up with split now

[sleek turret]

They ported recently

[lucid marsh]

That's good to hear

The way I see it, Thorium is the best and last of the old age of modding, before tmodloader existed at all

[wide river]

There's a reason some people call it a very vanilla-esque mod
Its content feels much more tame, comparatively less overwhelming than other mods like Calamity, and it keeps much more to the pre-established tiering of Terraria rather than adding whole new tiers like "post-Moon Lord"
(Well, they kinda did with Primordials, but that's only really moving the goalpost by one boss, not establishing an entirely new tier of progression like Calamity does)

[hollow shell]

Indeed, indeed.

(I don't even know what the status of the Avalon revival project(s) are.)

[sleek turret]

slowly going with development I think

they also develop for the tconfig versions I think

[hollow shell]

Wait what

[sleek turret]

yea you can check in their annoucements in the server they have some tconfig versions and they announced a while ago to retaking development on a tconfig update

although its more for like mod historical purposes, i'd like to play them one day and see how avalon influenced mods back in the day

[dense ferry]

I don't think so, but yeah the idea is to just

Make the Wings not have effects tied to armor sets

Because it kinda stiffles build creativity

[distant gyro]

armour extension

[lucid marsh]

I thought the armor set boost ones were nice, they made certain sets more viable than they ever were before

I especially loved chaining the uh... Ice crystal shield, armor, and wings together

[dense ferry]

I do want to still keep them synergetic (or have a clear theming), of course

I just don't want them to be "X effect but it only activates if you have this armor set"

The only one I kinda ditched that was Silva Wings because I think it's better to give them a unique effect

I floated the idea of

Every time you use a Healing Potion

All of your flight time is restored

[hollow shell]

🤔

Interesting

(writing that down)

Actually that's probably not great that late in the game
With flight times as long as they are and it being as easy as it is to restore flight time just by landing on a platform or hooking onto something
and how infrequent potion drinks are

Probably would be more valuable as Infinite Flight for X seconds when you drink a healing potion

[misty lichen]

^

[dense ferry]

I know, I made this thinking about people who don't want to do that

I also didn't want that because it'd basically make Soaring Insignia obsolete

...

I'm a dumbass

I meant the other one

[hollow shell]

Ascendant Insignia yeah

[dense ferry]

Yeah

[hollow shell]

Hm

[dense ferry]

It'd be on a 60/45 second Cooldown

And then if it's any less than 2 seconds it's like, really hard to use

And if it's more, yeah

It's just a slightly weaker Ascendant Insignia

[glass arch]

teehee

[dense ferry]

Which is merged with a wing

Basically, there's no middle ground where this thing is usable to the average player and it doesn't massively outclass Ascendant Insignia

[hollow shell]

Ascendant's is just infinite flight, right? It doesn't affect your mid-air control at all?
(I ask because in Rain World ||Saint's Attunement, iirc makes you not subject to gravity and you have equal movement potential in all directions, not unlike a mount in Terraria||)

Sooo if you wanna make Insignia still worth it, you could improve mid-air control similarly

Like being in a mount except you have the full actionability of the normal state

while the Silva Wing effect proposal would just be the brief infinite flgiht

... I say this without knowing how good or bad Ascendant Insignia is currently.

[dense ferry]

Ascendant Insignia also boosts flight like Soaring Insignia does

I did forget that

It wouldn't be outclassed now that I think about it, but idk

Like, 4 seconds of infinite flight on a 60/45 seconds cooldown sounds fine it's more that I'm afraid it'd box out Ascendant Insignia because the average player doesn't know how good the boosts are

Granted, you do have a bunch of shit inbetween Silva Wings and Ascendant Insignia

[hollow shell]

(Silva's could just be like 2.5 seconds)

[dense ferry]

3 seconds probably

I think 2.5 is a bit too little for it to be usable in Yharon, SCal or Exos

It'd only end up being good in edge cases like

"Oh I need a little bit flight time here"

[hollow shell]

Hmmmmmm

Thinking in a different way

[dense ferry]

Also it's funny saying this when my idea for the Godslayer Wings was that

Every tick of debuff damage would be converted into a tick of flight time

[hollow shell]

Healing potions aren't really something that you're going to use for that secondary effect, waiting for a good time to use it
I mean maybe people would, sometimes.
But, I feel like a lot of players are just going to use healing potions as soon as they are off cooldown, so that they stay alive

Because every second they spend not drinking their healing potion while it's off cooldown, that's essentially extending how long it's going to take before they can drink it again, harming their 'effective health regen'

So should the effect be something more like a "storage" of flight time for you to use soon, rather than in the immediate moment?
Like, it adds your max flight time onto your current flight time as "bonus" time that can go over your max
Whenever you fly, it consumes this bonus max flight time instead of your base flight time. So it persists between landings

[distant gyro]

i had so so many wing effect ideas but i feel like at the end of the day the best way to approach wings is mobility/flight time offer variability

its most simple and most practical

[dense ferry]

Yeah, I think them boosting other kinds of stats should be an outlier

[misty lichen]

are reworked wings gonna have entirely flight based effects?

[dense ferry]

Dunno

[distant gyro]

obviously some stupid ones like bee need something to stand out so it could have small gimmicks but nothing outlandish

and nothing damage anymore

[dense ferry]

This whole thing kinda just started with me wanting to do this exclusively with Silva and Godslayer Wings because

[misty lichen]

im gonna give the advice now that flying stats should likely be focused on more than flight time, since total flight time is a very irrelevant stat

[dense ferry]

I didn't like how you'd have no variance between the two if they just boosted GSD or Revive

[distant gyro]

i think we need to be done with wings giving damage

[misty lichen]

you do!

[distant gyro]

or defense

[dense ferry]

And then that spiraled into

[distant gyro]

or whatever

[misty lichen]

being better than stat items

[hollow shell]

(I had a bunch of mostly-flight-based wing effects listed on our Trellos back when I was a dev)

[dense ferry]

"Wait we should do that with other stuff actually"

[misty lichen]

because you just use the one that gives you more stats

[distant gyro]

my stupid ass thought of spectre wings giving you tile clip dw

[misty lichen]

💀

[wide river]

Spooky

[distant gyro]

i had my fair share of ideas

[hollow shell]

indeed that was one of my two ideas for Spectre

The other just being that it gives you greatly reduced aggro while flying/gliding, making you invisible like Shroomite

I like the block clipping idea better.

[distant gyro]

i do like the idea but it could go out of control fast (and bane of mod compat balance probs)

[wide river]

Make an arena that's just thousands of solid blocks to screw around with projectiles that explode on tiles

Water arena 2

[distant gyro]

also this may be unpopular

i think there is still merit to flight time benefits when applicable, as long as flight time boosts aren't tossed like flies that is

[novel belfry]

i feel truly saddened to hear stuff about many of rover's incredibly interesting enemy mechanics that are clearly perfectly doable today, but were clearly ignored.

now the viruling is just a boring flying enemy instead of what rover imagined

but thats a story for another day

[distant gyro]

in a way im happy draconic elixir did not end up being a soaring pot upgrade

[hollow shell]

((Viruling was just a funny thing / a worldbuilding thing tbf))

[distant gyro]

i

[novel belfry]

(I remembered genuinely considering starting modding by making an addon whose sole addition would be the godslayer hoverboard, and i thought about making its set bonus just make the godslayer dash go in the direction of the mouse)

[hollow shell]

I don't think the public has ever heard my ideas for Post-ML enemies though
Nightmare Evil Biome enemies, Endothermic Ice Biome enemy, Bloodstone enemies...

[novel belfry]

(of course, i clearly dont have experience in coding so ya)

[distant gyro]

i suppose you can take that as compliments but like

there is a clear abundance of ideas and lack of execution

[novel belfry]

one thing that hypes me for sso is that the enemies there are intended to be much more interesting, even the acid rain enemies that i already considered the best calamity had to offer in the enemy department

[distant gyro]

realistically if the ideas weren't taken off, chances are there are priorities greater than it

[hollow shell]

My original set of enemy proposals - that included the plague enemies - actually were implemented, just half-baked

[distant gyro]

don't knock off the thoughts that enemies can stay boring forever

[hollow shell]

The other ideas that just sat in the Trello forever that is fair
I had... I had a lot of ideas that I just threw onto the Trello (originally in my own doc before they made a Trello just for me)

[distant gyro]

theres so much on the trello

[novel belfry]

a trello just for rover's ideas is insane

[hollow shell]

Is all my stuff still there even though I've been gone for like a year

Two years??

Two years.

[distant gyro]

and the troubling part is when it goes wrong in execution and you have to take backups or completely switch it up

ideas hardly guarantee implementation i find

[hollow shell]

I do feel embarrassed by some of these cuz I had some really shit sprites and some pretty boring ideas myself

[distant gyro]

its fun to brainstorm

[hollow shell]

hang on lemme try to find em

[distant gyro]

its less fun to be practical about it

[hollow shell]

Indeed it is very fun to brainstorm and very easy for that matter, compared to implementing in reality

I recognize that the vast majority of stuff proposed just shouldn't be implemented

for several reasons

[dense ferry]

50% of ideas work well

The other 50% break down when you start to write down the specifics

[distant gyro]

more like 10% honestly

[novel belfry]

im probably the ideas guy on steroids
i've had ideas for nearly all of the bosses in calamity on how they could be "better"

[dense ferry]

Maybe I'm built different

[distant gyro]

expectations vs reality is CRUSHING

[novel belfry]

i think i should just play other mods

[dense ferry]

Granted, ok

Counting the shitty ass ideas I have and instantly go

"This sucks"

Yeah, more like 20%

[distant gyro]

did you SEE what happened with the permafrost incident

i think 10% lines up there

[dense ferry]

IT WAS 4AM

[distant gyro]

[dense ferry]

For context

[novel belfry]

the fucking what

[dense ferry]

I suggested giving Permafrost a functionality that gave you infinite mana for around 20 seconds

There was another one that was even worse one second

[novel belfry]

i dont know how to respond to that

[distant gyro]

its incredible

[dense ferry]

OH YEAH THE FUCKING

[distant gyro]

souped up warmth potion

[dense ferry]

Permafrost gives you a thing like Amidias' ball

[distant gyro]

enemy freeze aura

[dense ferry]

A buff which, amongst its effects

Reduced all fire-based damage by 50%

[distant gyro]

the list actually is so fucked up

[frail fox]

Excited for Bandit giving infinite stealth next

[dense ferry]

That's the tamest one tbf

[novel belfry]

Remember when weapons could end up being classified as "Fire Weapons"?

i sure as heck prefer the debuff system over that

[dense ferry]

Rebecca at 4am coming up with the hottest ideas of all time

[wide river]

I think that one's a cold idea

[dense ferry]

True actually....

[frail fox]

Grand total of 5 uses

[dense ferry]

Well ok my idea was that it'd be good to use this because y'know

Crags

Everything in there is fire

But well

Yeah

[novel belfry]

quick question what are the current ideas about permafrost so i can stay indefinitely hyped for the next 2 months

[dense ferry]

The only thing we have set is murdering the shop

[frail fox]

Crags overhaul update leaks…

[novel belfry]

I mean. Not every NPC has to sell stuff

[dense ferry]

I think only Cirrus and Bandit are gonna end with shops

Cal already doesn't have one, Amidias won't either, and Perma also won't

And then the other two stay as shops

Tho I might think of making Bandit shop unlocks more interesting

It's still gonna be a shop tho

[frail fox]

Death of the current 3 frost moon permafrost weapons I pray

[wide river]

Give Bandit a specific currency which only works in their shop

This has only went well

[frail fox]

Rogue proficiency tokens

[distant gyro]

yeah everyone loves the tavernkeep

[dense ferry]

Tbf

That can work

If the currency isn't shit to obtain

[hollow shell]

Found em holy shit

Say hello to November 2017
(For context: Polterghast has been added just a couple months ago, DoG recently got his second phase, eyeball-SCal was just about to get an arena, and Stress hadn't been removed yet)

Ahh good times
These ideas kinda blow actually looking at em now

[ripe owl]

So how are we going to obtain the weapons from those guys?

[distant gyro]

magic

[ripe owl]

I mean we all start somewhere

[distant gyro]

find out in the next episode of

[ripe owl]

Waow...

[dense ferry]

Calamitas you already know

Amidias we have a solid plan

[distant gyro]

calamity spoilers

[dense ferry]

Permafrost I don't fucking know

[wide river]

Artifacts of the past

[ripe owl]

I wonder if killing Perma weapons would be beneficial to Calamity's economy...

[distant gyro]

i mean there is A plan

[hollow shell]

We do indeed.

I was 16 years old at the time

[distant gyro]

i guess

[dense ferry]

Is it that idea I have?

[novel belfry]

"A new material that can be made into Canisters"

[dense ferry]

I think it's kinda shitty and just

[distant gyro]

yes

[novel belfry]

thats funky

[dense ferry]

Exhumes but less cool

[distant gyro]

its definitely one

[wide river]

Damn

[ripe owl]

Just kill Permafrost weapons altogether tbh

[distant gyro]

yeah i was pointing that one out

[ripe owl]

Like name one that's memorable

[hollow shell]

Coldheart Icic- wait

[dense ferry]

I think like

5 of them are dying

[ripe owl]

Already murdered, unfortunately

[hollow shell]

yep

[distant gyro]

cryogenic staff but i think this is cheating

[ripe owl]

And that'd be uuuuh

[novel belfry]

the icicle is definitely the saddest removal, just because it was probably the most funkiest item in the game

[dense ferry]

I think there's a very real possibility of every Permafrost item that remains just

Gets spread between Cryogen and Cryonic Ore

[hollow shell]

@void osprey Cross-mod compatibility is one of the reasons why the Early Hardmode Progression Rework can be disabled in the configuration options.

Also Calamity changes a lot of Hardmode recipes to be at a Lead/Iron Anvil in order to make up for the fact that Mythril/Orich got pushed later

[ripe owl]

That'd be half his shop

[novel belfry]

I like the idea of giving Permafrost enchantments, although that would DEFINITELY cause balance headaches...

so uh

his own version of exhuming would probably be more ideal

[dense ferry]

Because it's three ice theme sets unlocked at the same time

[dense ferry]

Calamitas' Enchantments already need help so

[frail fox]

Brimmy in hell (literally)

[novel belfry]

yup

[drowsy plank]

perma, cryo bar, and cryogen drops should get merged into one loot table. and anything that doesnt fit dropping from cryo can be crafted with cryo ore. this does leave perma high and dry but im sure yall could think of something

[wide river]

(Adding to this: If there's an issue with too many items being locked behind the Mythril/Orichalcum anvils, then suggesting to move some back to Iron/Lead would be more preferable to adding a whole new anvil type)

[hollow shell]

^

[distant gyro]

yeah people are mad over cryonic not being immediately available but like

[dense ferry]

Yeah, I think this would be better, but at the same time

[distant gyro]

tell me do you want to unlock 3 whole sets at once

[dense ferry]

What the fuck do we do with Permafrost, then?

It's really hard to design an NPC entirely unrelated to items

[drowsy plank]

fuck em
like i get he's important but maybe he can just Be A Lore Guy. that's allowed. if yall dont wanna do weaker enchants for him or something. and im p sure he sells stuff outside of weapons. just keep those

[dense ferry]

Itemization is the single most important aspect of this game and I think it's an immense challenge to think of a mechanic for Permafrost that doesn't relate with that

[distant gyro]

thankfully cryonic rework cooked

[drowsy plank]

there's plenty of stuff he can do that isn't being the third cryogen weapon table

[novel belfry]

He doesn'r have to sell weapons

[dense ferry]

We're gonna have to do SOMETHING with Blood Runes now that I think about it...

[distant gyro]

yeah i made a comment on this already but

[hollow shell]

He could still sell items, just not a tier-based weapon set
Like, a lot of vanilla NPCs actually

[novel belfry]

Permafrost is said to not like actively participating in battle

[ripe owl]

Ah yes, that one "Ammo type for a single magic weapon" item

[distant gyro]

most npcs that have a niche already fulfills one like bandit or nursr or tax collector

[dense ferry]

Sadly, it's a Donor item

[wide river]

When you craft Ice Barrage you get a complimentary 9999 Blood Runes upon craft

[drowsy plank]

also as i was trying to say earlier, i think wings should just be treated like any other accessory; dash shields still have other benefits beyond their dashes. wings should be balanced like that too. then their non-wing effects can just be whatever fits them best to make them interesting

[drowsy plank]

just move them to wizard. he was already the magic shop guy. does it matter EXACTLY who sells them?

[dense ferry]

You have a point

[distant gyro]

the only utility i think permafrost could have that would be useful is the ability to freeze or unfreeze time but that wouldnt be particularly fitting of the character and thats another thing to work around

[dense ferry]

...

[novel belfry]

perma is also known to have trained Calamitas in a more helpful manner

[dense ferry]

I just had a crack idea

[hollow shell]

(If the donor can be contacted still it'd be good to bring it up with them)

[novel belfry]

i suppose he can sell items, but not weapons

[dense ferry]

Altix

To the Dev Server!

[hollow shell]

funny

[distant gyro]

⬆️

[wide river]

If usernames are anything to go off of, they're still in the server here

[drowsy plank]

holy shit cosmolight 2

[hollow shell]

Actually yeah yknow what you get Cosmolight around that point
You could remove that item and give Perma the function

[novel belfry]

Permafrost's Concoction is a defensive accessory

[drowsy plank]

actually it would be super funny if cosmolight dies and it just becomes perma's purpose

lmao

[distant gyro]

permafrost is a living fucking sundial

alternate reality

[drowsy plank]

you could even have a UI instead of just having to spam the item

[novel belfry]

I wouldn't like that, at least for the whole playthrough so i'd probably instead move cosmolight to post ASTRUM DEUS

[wide river]

His nose rotates to tell time

[distant gyro]

his

[drowsy plank]

HOLYY SHIT WHAT IF YOU COULD GET PERMA TO CHANGE MOON PHASES

[distant gyro]

okay ill not continue that

[drowsy plank]

FINALLY SOMETHING TO MAKE THAT LESS AWFUL

[novel belfry]

but anyways i think Permafrost could still sell items, but instead of weapons sell more defensive and supportive accessories of that sort

[distant gyro]

too bad moon phases are still uber niche

[drowsy plank]

no you dont understand i love sitting in a bed for 10 real life minutes to get the right moon phase it's so fun and awesome

they may be niche but if he can change the time he can change the moon phases

and they do matter

they lock werewolves and even some travelling merchant and other shop stuff

so they serve a purpose

[ripe owl]

Pull the level Kronk

[hollow shell]

What other utilities does Calamity add that potentially trivialize vanilla mechanics, that we could potentially move to Perma?

[drowsy plank]

permafrost is now a fishing accessory 👍

fjfjjtkfnfnf

[wide river]

Equip Permafrost for 100 fishing power

[ripe owl]

Wouldn't that be neat

[hollow shell]

Cosmolight is probably the most direct example

[ripe owl]

Imagine

A shop

But you buy timeskips

Like you can just click on a specific position (so a specific period of time) and it'll skip to it at a reasonable cost

[hollow shell]

There was some mod that added exactly that to the Wizard NPC
Don't know which one. One of the many "QoL" mods that were popular back in 1.3

[lucid marsh]

Permafrost should give free time skips, that sounds like a good idea

[drowsy plank]

actually wait no i can definitely flag this

[lucid marsh]

but also...

[void osprey]

Operator from alch NPC has simulation control unit but that’s like a worse version of what ur suggesting

[hollow shell]

You better not say Specific Item Suggestion or I'mma be mad

[north oracle]

permafrost
the npc
is an accessory

ykw sounds good

[glass arch]

for fishing!

[ripe owl]

That'd be one of the reasons if I had to guess

[lucid marsh]

I know

[novel belfry]

i dont like the idea of seeing rover mad tho

[wide river]

I feel like that classification has begun losing its meaning recently
But that's just me

[hollow shell]

Kept in your inventory like Lancer Deltarune

[novel belfry]

i've only seen him as this rather chill lad

[north oracle]

hey cirrus is a mount

[hollow shell]

I am very rarely mad at people, genuinely.
I do my best to not be.

[north oracle]

we need more npcs as equippables

[drowsy plank]

i mean. it does kind fall under it. in general ozz wants us to avoid specifics. i was just going to say to remove the cobalt/palladium anvil thing and focus more on that too many items are locked behind mythril/palladium anvils and explain which items and why this should be changed. this feels reasonable under the rules and is sort of a major point of the doc

focus on the problem, not your solution

[lucid marsh]

In lore: Permafrost gave cryonic bars to draedon. Make Permafrost sell Cryonic bars, because they're a moderate pain to farm otherwise

[novel belfry]

actually

[north oracle]

permafrost should sell draedon tbh

[ripe owl]

Rover kinda gives me vibes of my uncle, he's very chill, and I've personally never seen him mad

[wide river]

Amidias grappling hook

[void osprey]

real

[novel belfry]

give permafrost the ability to craft certain advanced materials

[north oracle]

bandit armor

[ripe owl]

Wrong channel?

[glass arch]

wrong discord?

[north oracle]

i don't know what channel is the right one but this isn't it

[lucid marsh]

wrong server lmao

[hollow shell]

I do indeed think the suggestion would be vastly improved by that, yes.
Cobalt/Palladium Anvil is never going to happen

[north oracle]

tmod's one would probably be better

[ripe owl]

Wrong app altogether

[drowsy plank]

anyway @void osprey yeah this is my point and what i think you can change. because with some specific examples of things that you think shouldn't be locked behind it, you might be able to make a more compelling case without needing to introduce your third anvil by just suggesting more things moved to iron/lead, since your current anvil is sort of pointless.

[glass arch]

item made of cobalt/palladium that functions the exact same as the mythril anvil
there is a much easier solution
make more crafts at a regular anvil
you dont have to go to the lengths of making a whole new crafting station

[north oracle]

or no

[hollow shell]

awh

[north oracle]

this is a different game

[wide river]

Wrong user

[paper dove]

Where can i get it done please

[north oracle]

this is entirely the wrong place to ask, we don't know.

[drowsy plank]

@paper dove just going to delete that

[paper dove]

Any idea please?

[glass arch]

not in a terraria mod discord

[drowsy plank]

dude this is a terraria server

what are you even doing here

[hollow shell]

Find some Guitar Hero discord server?? Doesn't make sense to ask in-
yeah

[lucid marsh]

You're lucky I know what clone hero even is

[north oracle]

we literally cannot help you at all

[lucid marsh]

this is a terraria server

[median scaffold]

[lucid marsh]

but yeah, no one here has any idea how to help with that

[ripe owl]

I first thought of Loop Hero when I saw the wall of text

[median scaffold]

Why won't you help me with Guitar Hero in a Terraria Server??!??!?

[lucid marsh]

it's an open source guitar hero clone

[ripe owl]

That wasn't it, so I thought of some weird Soul Knight-esque game

[lucid marsh]

or something like that

[ripe owl]

Then I remembered what the Clone Hero is

[void osprey]

Yeah coming up with a list of stuff like that would be a good idea, I’m assuming the mech summons were already changed to iron/lead anvil right?

[paper dove]

So can you help

[ripe owl]

Anyway

[glass arch]

yes

[hollow shell]

(btw sorry user autism manifesto for the very fast chat, I know it might be hard to find Cog and I's feedbacks during this)

[drowsy plank]

yes, check the wiki for a full list on the "Vanilla items recipes" page

[hollow shell]

https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Vanilla_item_recipes

[lucid marsh]

no. I already told you. No one here can help you. Find a discord server for Clone hero or guitar hero or something like that. That is the most I can possibly do to help you, giving you that information.

[ripe owl]

Dude please go somewhere else

[drowsy plank]

thanks lol

[novel belfry]

that is not what i expected to see happen in #suggestions-discussion

[ripe owl]

You are a common folk in here, how is it "not expected"?

Aaaaanyway

Suggestions

[paper dove]

Wdym by that
If you can't be of help then you let me know you dont need ti talk to me anyhow

[hollow shell]

I will admit, I don't know if someone has ever before asked for a mod for a completely different game in these suggestions channels

[void osprey]

I’m not usually in this chat is stuff like this normal???

[north oracle]

Please move on from this conversation. This server can't help you and this isn't the purpose of this channel in any case.
Everyone else please just drop this and move on.

[hollow shell]

I'm gonna just find a Clone Hero server myself at this point

[glass arch]

it can go offtopic quite a lot but thats irrelevant

[ripe owl]

Well, people often ask for help with the mod in here, like what they should use for this boss and similar questions

But that's usually with the newcomers

[glass arch]

rn what we should be discussing is suggestions (crazy concept, discussing suggestions in #suggestions-discussion )

[ripe owl]

Mind-blowing

[void osprey]

I don’t know when ichor bullets were fixed to be lead/iron anvil but whoever caught that good on you fr

Could’ve sworn they were Mythril a few months ago

[ripe owl]

I think most if not all recipes that needed to be moved were moved