suggestions-discussion

[idle dagger]

but all necklaces it was before

[median scaffold]

Okay, my bad

That's pretty weird

[crude geode]

Perfect design for a mage accessory but no, the most generic/useless effect for each class, put onto one accessory

[median scaffold]

[idle dagger]

we should add sweetheart necklace into current deific

[crude geode]

Twas funny

[idle dagger]

:>

[median scaffold]

I love stuff putted in one accessory, because reasons

[steep patrol]

asgardian aegis used to be all shield combined minus new vanilla shield,deep diver and rampart line

[sand marlin]

[crude geode]

More effects = cooler, or something /s

[idle dagger]

i do remember that

well

[median scaffold]

Potion, that is almost a whole hardmode accessory (iirc), with a minor minus of 4 defense lose
Why would it be nerfed, hmmmmmmm

[steep patrol]

it also give crit in vanilla

[sand marlin]

Ah yes because melee speed was broken in vanilla clearly that's why it was nerfed (no)

[distant gyro]

it is the vanilla equivalent of bloody mary

[sand marlin]

Remember. Melee speed in vanilla to most melee weapons is just velocity

[distant gyro]

i mean it is for any weapons that work using it

[sand marlin]

???

[median scaffold]

Isn't this the yellow glove power-wise?

[steep patrol]

thats almost cshell

[distant gyro]

much so that they actually gimped fetid baghnakhs and terra blade in particular

[median scaffold]

That's worse

[distant gyro]

because when it works, it works

[crude geode]

Before I write up a sugg about it, are there plans to change the auric/eldritch artifacts?

[sand marlin]

Yes it was specific weapon issue that's why the specific weapons were nerfed, not Ale

[distant gyro]

and really damn well

[steep patrol]

thats more like balancing thing

[distant gyro]

yeah thats just pointing out how silly melee speed is

not ale specifically

[sand marlin]

[steep patrol]

this thing+cshell+beetle armor+fire and mech glove just obliterate any foe in a mere second

[distant gyro]

"melee speed is irrelevant except when it's relevant it's broken so they have to apply resists"

[sand marlin]

I personally like velocity thing because it's actually not a bad stat to give a weapon

Like Flails are a prime example of this

Where they just don't reach well enough otherwise

[distant gyro]

boomerangs are fair in terms of usefulness

except the ones that have limited throw restrictions

[crude geode]

The problem is that Eldritch is trying to be a jack of all trades but ends up failing in like. half of them

[distant gyro]

then it can sometimes screw you over

[crude geode]

Bc if you give multi class minions balance comes into play

[steep patrol]

rn it just lack damage% since most of the time you get more damage by just using class emblem

[distant gyro]

also this is really funny when you consider you just need wood, iron, and the sand to maintain an unless supply of these

[median scaffold]

Me, when Tavernkeep + Demolitionist in undeground:

[steep patrol]

you can get wood iron and sand pre boss

[misty lichen]

the problem with esa is every time it had even a tiny sliver of viability it got nerfed to not have that

[distant gyro]

yeah you need to kill evil1 to get a tavernkeep i think

[crude geode]

Yep

[median scaffold]

2 minion slots sounds cool, tbh

[misty lichen]

oh i have amazing news for you then

[median scaffold]

It is right

[median scaffold]

NERFED

[distant gyro]

this is actually true

[median scaffold]

[misty lichen]

a lot of accessories give 2 minion slots!!!

[crude geode]

And a lot of them give more

[distant gyro]

ESA is probably deliberately tossed into trash stats so that it gets lost forever until the rework in 2027

[median scaffold]

I know 2 pre-DoG

[misty lichen]

one slot is too ass and two slots is two broken, but three slots is actually perfectly ok and should be standard

[steep patrol]

ESA rework confirmed weeee

[distant gyro]

make it give 1 sentry slot instead. clearly

[crude geode]

That and Auric (I love summoning Fiery Draconids and nothing else for like. 1 or 2 minion slots)

[median scaffold]

If only sentries weren't overtuned

[distant gyro]

yeah all the classic soul artifacts

profaned gets preferential treatment because donor

[crude geode]

It’s amazing how the identity of every soul artifact except profaned has the most ass identity

[distant gyro]

also said donor is a dev and also did the item

[crude geode]

Glass cannon, stat stick, boring summon slot

[median scaffold]

Profaned will be reworked again?

[distant gyro]

well remember that they spawned out of being future boss spawners

so thats inline

[crude geode]

So true

[distant gyro]

[crude geode]

Just make them back into “future” boss spawners but instead they spawn the infernum version of bosses

[distant gyro]

no i meant that as in it got reworked before the others

[steep patrol]

well we got so many accessories in the game i think its ok to left some to be worse than other

[crude geode]

Something something fix everything mentality

[distant gyro]

well

[steep patrol]

its not like esa cause you any harm

[median scaffold]

In Infernum it does absolutely nothing

[steep patrol]

unlike some double hp accessories

[crude geode]

No in infernum it spawns the normal cal version

Duh

[median scaffold]

Nerf the difficulty, nerd

[distant gyro]

i think in an ideal scenario accessories and armor should be a higher priority of rework than weapons because it universally affects playstyles and loadouts of basically every run you play

[crude geode]

^

[median scaffold]

Agree

[distant gyro]

but also weapons are low stakes so its just easier to push out

and for that reason its more weapons that get reworks

[crude geode]

Accessories especially, since I feel like you can carry some of them throughout the game (Wulfrum pack anyone)

[distant gyro]

it won't drastically change anything

you either pick it up or pick something else up

[crude geode]

and doesn’t require a balance sweep with every single thing in the game (rogue when it)

[distant gyro]

also because calamity runs on an "do whatever tf you want schedule" rather than a top down priority list

and that just means more weapons

it also makes it impossible to predict whats the next thing that shows up on changelog

[crude geode]

Devs deciding to rework a random weapon (they have to approve a sugg from 3 years ago)

[distant gyro]

someone can just bust in one day and say "here's a rework for hdudbxjdksk" and its done

[crude geode]

I will say I feel as though implementation is a lot more consistent than it has been, even if it’s not intentional

In terms of suggestion which have been approved actually getting through to changelogs

[silver harness]

Make them spawn Boss rush version of bosses.

[median scaffold]

Thanks, Fluffy (or whoever else did that)

[empty nacelle]

Hi, one last thing, accorfding to what u said, seems like the only classe that acts poorly early game beside ranger is mage, u had said mage is the worst class too, and if mage is actually bad early game that means mage needs a buff too, otherwise it will be like 2 poor man arguing who is poorer, there is no point and both need money

[north oracle]

Move on. This has been shut down time and time again and brought back up. Do not start this topic again.

[empty nacelle]

Hi, that's why i said one last thing, and may I know why you deleted the report, eliminating the possibility of my responds directed to the person?

[north oracle]

Because the argument and any further messages were unnecessary from the moment angel said it wouldn't happen.

[median scaffold]

Ehh, both mage and ranger need a buff, but there's a part of summoner being so strong now and drivens these 2 classes to be worse overall
And, as for mage being the worse, I said it including all stages of progression, not only early game. Just... let's stop with this discussion before something else bad happen

[empty nacelle]

what you didnt understand is they were unnecessary for the devs except the individuals involved in the discussion, it is not fair to delete a valid responds before they are directed otherwise it will be one sided talk instead of healthy discussion

[north oracle]

I have already told you to move on. Drop it or you will be timed out.

[empty nacelle]

i dropped it, what i said is directed to your behavior not the topic, i hope you understnad

[median scaffold]

This whole thing has been continuing on and on for a couple of days. Yes, I agree that ranger could use some more love, especially in terms of accessories, but let this discussion be over now, please

[north oracle]

It's already over, please just let it die

[median scaffold]

Yeeh, let's talk about... uhh, the bot

Where is it

[olive saddle]

I hope nycro doesn't run into any issues with it

Probably a bit stressed trying to fix it

I feel bad

[median scaffold]

It is still weird how the bots suddenly died because... I guess Discord made something wrong??

[olive saddle]

It got rate limited. I'm not too network smart to know what that is

[violet zephyr]

From what I understood, the bot uses a seperate library to operate, and that is being rate limited.

[median scaffold]

....that probably sounds pretty stupid, but what does "rate limit" mean in this context?

Is the amount of operations the bot can make at a time of, for example, one second limited or smth?

[distant gyro]

when the bot requests the message, reaction, etc to discord and at some point it gets "limited" because too many are being sent

[violet zephyr]

Rate limiting is how many requests something can make. So when something is rate limited, any attempts at sending information are denied.

[sand marlin]

Think of it as like your internet running out

(Death)

[median scaffold]

Ah, got it. Thanks

[distant gyro]

purgatory

[median scaffold]

We should revive the bot

[distant gyro]

if only

[violet zephyr]

It is not a problem with the bot itself, but a library the bot uses.

So its not a problem Nycro can fix.

[median scaffold]

We should revive the library

[umbral gazelle]

i can think of the temporary solution of making someone do the bot job while its down

[sand marlin]

Nothing's being sent to dev anyway isn't it? Doing notif stuff would be detrimental if so

@tacit shard malice is not coming back

[tacit shard]

i dont see a reason why not because now there is a new difficulty mode, why not turn that into malice?

[sand marlin]

Devs confirmed malice is not coming back

[tacit shard]

man

[fossil finch]

may it stay that way forever

[dense locust]

calling the master rev changes malice is kinda an insult to the master rev changes tbh
most malice fights were just "death mode fight but way faster"

[drowsy plank]

@tacit shard this is literally an example in the rules document about things you cannot suggest

malice mode isn't coming back

[tacit shard]

Where is that document again?

[drowsy plank]

pins

[tacit shard]

ah

[gaunt needle]

Calamity should really get rid of all the "master rev" "master death" things and lock calamity difficulty to death if master is enabled

[median scaffold]

...why?

[gaunt needle]

What's the point of maintaining that many different difficulties?

[median scaffold]

Pretty much the same reason why Rev and Death are separate difficulties to begin with

[gaunt needle]

"Malice was a mistake and we are not adding it back" and then they add 2 more difficulties instead

[fossil finch]

You're true choomfie never let anyone convince you otherwise

[median scaffold]

...actually, if we get rid of one of the difficulties, we will need to balance out only one difficulty. A good trade off, imo

[fossil finch]

So true! Calamity should be balanced on expert and rev and death should provide no stat changes

[whole tundra]

Why is that emoji called Blueless

Rather than redless

[median scaffold]

Imagine if Death mode would be changed to current Master mode

[median scaffold]

We don't have the red clueless, Silvaheart.

[ripe owl]

Then it should be red-greenless, duh

[sleek turret]

YUP! ANOTHER CALAMITY CLASSIC

[dense ferry]

This shit is never going to end is it?

[slim cairn]

Why would they add more difficulties thatd literally make things worse for the mod

[harsh echo]

cause blue rhymes with clue

[slim cairn]

Itd either be just more stat bloat (yum) or itd detract from newer content

[hollow verge]

no. hope this helps /j

i never saw malice mode but it did just seem like stat changes

[drowsy plank]

wasn't have 7 combinable difficulties literally something we used to meme about

[hollow verge]

at least rev/death tinker with more than that

[drowsy plank]

like wasn't that part of the 2024 copypasta

[crude geode]

Probably

Malice Mode is something that has such a stigma around it, it won’t come back though

[dense ferry]

Yes, honestly I'm just tired of how people have been reacting to this shit

[spice stream]

malice was removed for many reasons lol

[sand marlin]

I think the point is to stop beating the dead horse

Suggestion was already resolved

[dense ferry]

There is absolutely no constructive criticism around this and the people who dislike the concept are just so fucking annoying

Like, bro you can just say "I think this is a bad idea"

[dense ferry]

Instead of saying shit like this

It's really fucking annoying and makes me angry

[crude geode]

It really is just the special of this channel, which is annoying

A jump to sarcasm and the most toxic “wit” (if you can even call it that)you can imagine

[sand marlin]

What's wit

[slim cairn]

I do hope my message didnt come off as that

[dense ferry]

I am this close of starting to hand out actual punishment for people who say things like this

I'm just

[slim cairn]

Because it wasnt the intention if it did

[dense ferry]

Tired of seeing it

And pretending it's a non issue

[sand marlin]

You should make a more general statement tbh

Like same issue is probably going to pop up with a different topic instead

[dense ferry]

Absolutely and I do not mean solely with this topic

I have seen it with countless others

It tires me, a lot

[crude geode]

It says a lot that this is the only channel with a “etiquette” pin

[sand marlin]

Where I'm going with that is you can probably just edit the whip discussion pin

[dense ferry]

I'm tired of seeing "criticism" to Calamity veiled as a joke

[crude geode]

and even it fails to do a lot most of the time

[sand marlin]

Okay wait we DO have literally the etiquette pin which should already count towards all of these. I keep forgetting

[crude geode]

Yep

[dense ferry]

Anyways I'm gonna go now

I need to do a bunch of shit because water is gonna be turned off soon-ish

[sand marlin]

(Death)

[crude geode]

Best of luck

[sand marlin]

At least it isn't as bad as internet death

[median scaffold]

No.

[glass arch]

it was 50 byeah

[drowsy plank]

@ashen warren no joke suggestions

[median scaffold]

Defiled is not a thing.

[median scaffold]

I think they're serious, but it lacks... anything

[drowsy plank]

they can be serious but that doesn't make it not a joke

[median scaffold]

[drowsy plank]

you need to have literally anything even approaching an explanation or reasoning for a suggestion to actually be considered

[fleet grotto]

unaccepted malice suggestion #5000

[sleek turret]

reversion sugg technically

[drowsy plank]

reversion isn't entirely against the rules either but you need to have a really good reason for it or it needs to be something super small; malice however is a major exception literally explictly being singled out as one you cannot mention

[sand marlin]

What if

Write peak suggestion
Bottom text is Malice

[drowsy plank]

then i kill you with a large rock

[sleek turret]

i mean malice is a noun right

so malicious

[spice stream]

what if large rock hit malice

[sleek turret]

malice, malicious, maliciously

[spice stream]

kaizo i’m lost

[wide river]

Hi lost

[sleek turret]

uhh actually this sugg can be really good if instead of malice you replace the word with malign

[median scaffold]

Do it. NOW.

[sleek turret]

a sugg that repeats the words malice malicious maliciously repeatedly sounds great

[spice stream]

dad?!

[umbral gazelle]

writing a suggestion that have valid title, valid reasoning then put skibidi toilet at the end of suggestion

[silver harness]

Because it's clueless but blue.

[harsh echo]

[hollow shell]

The terms "Death Expert" and "Malice Master" make my skin crawl

(ok I saw there was contention over the reactions to this suggestion, sorry)

[golden sonnet]

What are people's thoughts on the current state of brimrose mount? On the one hand, I think alternatives/trade offs are great, and the fact that brimrose is faster than witch's broom, but one block taller, means it has strengths and weaknesses so is not a direct upgrade. On the other hand, brimrose is much later in the game than witch's broom, and the trade off of height and speed seems like something that would be much better fit by witch's broom and ufo, with brimrose then taking the aspects of both.

My thought is, make ufo faster than witch (as I believe ufo is already 4 tall?) as an alternative with a strength and weakness, shrink brimrose by 1 in height to be the best of both

but I wanted opinions

[drowsy plank]

that seems fine but this seems like a trenchcoat sugg to buff ufo

which

tbf i think CIT already made it so UFO works in water now?

idk

[violet zephyr]

I believe it should be stated that it increases the players hitbox, to make it clear it is not a direct upgrade to Witch's Broom.

[golden sonnet]

correct, I still feel that is not enough. I think some kind of competition between the two would be best

[drowsy plank]

make all mounts list hitbox changes

[golden sonnet]

like wings vs tracers

[dense ferry]

Brimrose and UFO should not be competing

There is a massive tier disparity between the two

[drowsy plank]

reread it; raesh meant broom and ufo
then brim would be an upgrade by having the best of both of those

[dense ferry]

In that case I agree

Broom is a tier earlier too

[drowsy plank]

i think it would be very funny if you buffed ufo but gave it ice physics so broom's niche is having better control
this is probably a bad idea tho because it would just enable rungodding more lmao

[wide river]

Make UFO a really slow version of Exo Box clearly
Precise movement but crap speed

[drowsy plank]

interesting idea

[violet zephyr]

Let's give UFO infinite max speed, incredibly high acceleration, but also no deceleration.

[dense ferry]

Would be awful due to lack of compatbility with the Bosses at that tier

No Bosses require precision besides idk

Providence

Where you're better off rungodding

Actually...

[wide river]

(I was joking when I said that to be clear)

[cold cosmos]

Just make the UFO burden breaker 2.0

[dense locust]

4.0*

[golden sonnet]

real

[frosty trellis]

No actually
Due to vanilla rules
That calamity abides by

Moon drops are considered post golem
So they are the same tier

[dense ferry]

I hate this

[frosty trellis]

Calamity generally tries to follow vanilla guidelines for when things are balanced
With
Some obvious changes

Like half of prehardmode

Jungle is not post evils
Goblins are not post evils
Hellstone is not post skeletron

[golden sonnet]

I intentionally phrased the suggestion to say "as early as"

because it is still relevant that it can be obtained earlier, even if it is not balanced as such

[drowsy plank]

if calamity does continue follow vanilla design philosophy on that front i still really like my idea of shoving boss drops into an end of event boss bag and making the player lose score when they die

[lucid marsh]

Moon drops being post golem makes sense in the same way that duke fishron being post golem makes sense

Or at least, it's supposed to

[drowsy plank]

yeah duke makes sense bc duke is hard
cheesing an everscream or mourning wood by standing like 50 blocks above it and shooting down a la old king slime and then using its drops to kill a pumpking or frost queen is not

[lucid marsh]

Yeah. That's why I said supposed to

[frosty trellis]

Yeah like literally it's so dumb

You get a razorpine from a tree and then the event becomes free

[dense ferry]

I am very much against some of these

Like Drops from Hell being balanced around Evils 1

[drowsy plank]

i could see it being moved to post-Eye like jungle stuff

and then have anything from crags be balanced around these later tiers

[dense ferry]

Yes, this is where I think stuff should be balanced around

Like

Drops - EoC
Crafts - Evils 1
Chest loot - Skeletron

[crude geode]

Agreed

[lucid marsh]

Drops from hell are balanced that way because that used to be the end of the game

And then they just never changed it

Although I think making hell enemy drops be EoC tier is a surefire way for people to never use them

Who goes to hell before Evils 1? I barely even get halfway there

Mining speed and survivability is just too slow otherwise. The enemies are balanced around like, dungeon tier

[drowsy plank]

hm

okay you make a fair counterpoint

i mean

[hollow verge]

@scarlet musk why, tho

like what's the reason for the rename

[scarlet musk]

because rebounding rainbow sounds dumb :p

[scarlet musk]

that aside, do yall like the name Scintilla Shredder

[hollow verge]

scintilla also sounds dumb, in my opinion names are very subjective

[scarlet musk]

fair

[hollow verge]

this is what scintilla means

u showed the completely wrong definition

[drowsy plank]

lmao that

lol yeah that does
not work as well

[hollow verge]

scintillating shredder isnt too bad, it sounds cool, but it's a mouthful

[scarlet musk]

yeah but it also means a spark or light particle

[hollow verge]

yea but anyone who googles it is gonna see "synonym for atom" as first result

[scarlet musk]

this is true

[hollow verge]

btw is nycro aware the bot hasnt posted anything in #suggestions-voting

i dont wanna ping if he knows

[scarlet musk]

i feel like the name also sort of depends on the rework of the elemental disk

which idk if we know yet

[hollow verge]

it might be too early to suggest a rename then, yeah

we might wanna wait until it comes out and see what it's like

[drowsy plank]

yeah i kind of want to flag this because of the whole scintilla vs scintillating point and also the lack of reasoning/not seeing the rework yet

both of the weapon and, most likely, the sprite too

[crude geode]

also like isn't most of the elemental set called that specifically. because their first name is "elemental"

[scarlet musk]

they're all being renamed

and also planetary annihilation lol

[hollow verge]

yeah we already know a bunch of the renames

rip elemental quiver

[crude geode]

ah

[hollow verge]

at least i no longer feel u should be inflicting elemental mix

[scarlet musk]

Variegate is a cool color related word

[hollow verge]

makes me think of that one fish from the underground jungle

[scarlet musk]

true but it could still be used along with another word

[hollow verge]

lardfish /nsrs

[scarlet musk]

naw 😭

[hollow shell]

You need to include a reason with your suggestion

But more relevantly, the suggestion is motivated by something upcoming, in #changelogs, which is a no-no
because you don't know what it's actually going to be like once it gets implemented, it's still in the works

[scarlet musk]

technically i said elemental disk not rebounding rainbow, but yeah true

i forgot how suggestions posting works, should i delete it? /gq

[hollow shell]

Probably.

[scarlet musk]

sure 👍

i still have the idea in my brain so i'll just save it for later

[hollow shell]

Wait until the update comes out and see how the item is
And then you can consider reposting the suggestion

Yeah, exactly

[scarlet musk]

ty :3

[hollow shell]

👍

[violet zephyr]

Yes.

[hollow verge]

ok cool

[slim cairn]

Yeah im not gonna lie

Making hell stuff balanced to EoC tier would be an even worse nerf than the reaver shark one from vanilla

That much effort to get something you are only gonna use for like 1 boss max is just not worth any stress

Plus melee already sorta suffers on pre hardmode weaponry before nights edge imo so theres also that

[dense ferry]

I literally always get there by Pre-Boss

[novel belfry]

call it Razing Rainbow

[fossil finch]

We such don't like this rule at all for certain things

Like, a name

A name can't be experienced beyond the words

its an obvious rule for like, changed behavior as a whole but we feel it should have defined exceptions

[slim cairn]

Honestly reb itd be better to just nerf reaver shark if its really a problem imo

[dense ferry]

The problem isn't the crafts

[fossil finch]

its almost like vanilla did that!

[dense ferry]

It's the drops

[novel belfry]

weve gone full circle

[dense ferry]

Oathsword, Claymore, etc

[fossil finch]

we honestly don't think they need any nerfs

[slim cairn]

Arent the drops mainly melee focused? Which were already massively nerfed

[novel belfry]

now we're asking to nerf reaver shark back to vanilla's nerf

[dense ferry]

And they're still broken as shit!

[fossil finch]

Let people get their op weapons early if they're willing to tbh

[slim cairn]

They are? Did i do something horribly wrong then?

Because melee early on sorta

Sucked

Specially on slime god

[fossil finch]

Plus, Most people don't actually go get uw weapons super early

[slim cairn]

Probably my most hated phm fight is slime god as melee

[dense ferry]

Well, tbf they're probably more in line now that we nerfed them

50 times in a row

[violet zephyr]

Mage has Demon Scythe and Rogue has Ashen Stalactite.

[dense ferry]

Demon Scythe is fucking ass to get anyways

[slim cairn]

Ashen is sorta way worse than crystalline

[fossil finch]

We'd explode if demon scythe stopped being a wof weapon because of some dumb blanket nerf

[slim cairn]

And demon scythe is slow enough that you can miss a lot with it

Despite the damage

Unless you are facetanking

[fossil finch]

ashen wjrjahrhahfhaje

[slim cairn]

Which uh

As a mage?

[sleek turret]

you can also get the infernal kris early if you go to the crags chests or the uhh draedon lab whatever butzzzzzzz

[slim cairn]

Really

[fossil finch]

Ashen has been obscure never used rogue weapon since Ever

[slim cairn]

In my last rogue run i managed to get it pre boss

[fossil finch]

vaguely recall it being good for something Once but we're probably just misremembering

[slim cairn]

Just to never use it

Crystalline just solos

[violet zephyr]

Good pierce for a spam orientated weapon.

[slim cairn]

Spam

Zzzzz

[fossil finch]

Spam so not real

[slim cairn]

🛌

Me when spam rogue

[fossil finch]

So true

[violet zephyr]

We love dismissing an entire half of a class!

Fuck whips, amiright?

[fossil finch]

its not really an entire half of a class though

Rogue's whole deal is the stealth strikes

[slim cairn]

I mean whips work along with the other half of summoner lmfao

You cant stealth and spam at the same time

One side will suffer

Because you either are focused on stealth (which means you are losing damage by spamming)

[violet zephyr]

May I introduce Raider's Talisman?

[fossil finch]

Spam has literally Nothing going for it outside of like some well meaning accesories that r like Use Spam haha but why the fuck would you when the whole fucking point is Stealth

[slim cairn]

Even with it

The only point where spam is better than stealth is probably on WoF

[fossil finch]

either stealth needs to be accommodated to allow for spam/stealth mixing or spam is just not really going to be a thing

[slim cairn]

And thats because afaik rogue doesnt really have a good weapon to stealth on it

[fossil finch]

Isn't enchanted axe thingy good on wof

It was years ago

Did they kill that

[slim cairn]

You usually will have to focus on one if you dont want to kneecap your damage

[fossil finch]

yeah precisely

[slim cairn]

So comparing it to whips is

Not the same

Imho

[fossil finch]

Unless the Stealth Regen stuff is changed to accommodate for actual mixing its just dumb

[slim cairn]

Whips work along with minions

Stealth does not work well along with spam

[fossil finch]

Because like, why would you use rogue and not do stealth when stealth is the entire point

[violet zephyr]

My point was that you are ignoring a part of a class for no reason.

[sleek turret]

i mean it should be like atmost getting good killtimes since its the option that pierces and also shoots an axe proj to the closest it's attacking

[slim cairn]

I am ignoring it for a reason

[fossil finch]

its a flawed comparison though

Whips don't have a justified reason to ignore

Spam is just Less Interesting Rogue

Spam doesn't coexist with Rogue's whole mechanic

Which is why its lame

[violet zephyr]

But it can.

[slim cairn]

You also lose any extras the rogue weapons do

Which like

Why use rogue then?

[fossil finch]

it can't as it exists in game

[slim cairn]

This one isnt like a factual argument or something im just asking that

[fossil finch]

We'd be open to a stealth Regen change that allowed spam and stealth to be used simultaneously

[slim cairn]

True

I mean rogue might be getting a rework (or will be i forgot) on the system, so maybe it gets a bit better?

[fossil finch]

but as it exists right now you have to fully commit to either and there's little reason a player would choose Not to interact with the mechanic of the class

[violet zephyr]

What does being used simultaneously even mean?

[fossil finch]

Specially because rogue gear is Heavily stealth focused

[slim cairn]

I dont dislike the current one but you need to jump hoops to use both without fucking yourself over

[violet zephyr]

Do you mean that even while attacking you get Stealth? That implementation would be horrible and be more boring.

[fossil finch]

rogue gets Two (Two) dedicated endgame accs unlike Literally Every Other Class and one of them is Solely dedicated to the stealth mechanic

We think attacking not consuming your stealth would be okay

You don't gain it if you attack

But it doesn't go away

[violet zephyr]

What?

[slim cairn]

But yeah spam rogue isnt really that acknowledged even accessory wise

[slim cairn]

Outside of like 1, maybe 2

[fossil finch]

You have recklessness and uh

Uh

[slim cairn]

Raiders

[fossil finch]

wdk

ah right

[slim cairn]

Which gives you a boost after a stealth strike

[fossil finch]

The Farm Stacks at your Dummy accesory!

[slim cairn]

For spam

[fossil finch]

(raider's old function was just really funny)

[hollow shell]

(See: #suggestions-discussion message )

[violet zephyr]

Raider's Talisman, Feather Crown, Glove of Recklessness, Ethereal Extorter (This is also a dual accessory), Moonstone Crown

[fossil finch]

fair actually but its very wdk

[violet zephyr]

Corrosive Spine

There's plenty of spam accessories.

[fossil finch]

ethereal extorter is so Note Real

[slim cairn]

Moonstone is more stealth oriented though

[fossil finch]

ever since it stopped being biome blade but rogue but accesory it hasn't existed in our heart

It is also directly responsible of the Astral Gives You Flight time bug which is funny

[slim cairn]

Sure it can work for spam but it literally has an interaction with stealth strikes specifically

That you wont get

[violet zephyr]

It summons projectiles when rogue weapons are travelling.

[slim cairn]

If you use spam

[violet zephyr]

Which benefits spam a lot more than stealth.

[slim cairn]

"Stealth strikes summon lunar flares on enemy hits"
Theres also this

[violet zephyr]

Okay then.

It is a dual accessory.

Which just further proves my point that these two playstyles could coincide.

[slim cairn]

Yeah, but it still doesnt work well as that at that point

Because you will usually be focused on stealth

And again at this point why would you spam then?

[violet zephyr]

Preference.

[slim cairn]

Most times ive seen people who ignore stealth just say rogue is trash

[fossil finch]

Okay but the point is they don't

The way the system works right now they just don't

[violet zephyr]

People are generally not good at judging an entire class with one playthrough when they don't know all accessories.

[slim cairn]

Doesnt change much that whenever they ignore the mechanic its sorta shat on

However i might be going off tracks now which i apologize, its almost 12AM and i have not slept well in months

[violet zephyr]

Again. The problem isn't with the system, it is with how often you would want to actually combine these playstyles. Raider's Talisman is LITERAL PROOF that it works.

[slim cairn]

Its the only one thats made to work for both tho

[fossil finch]

raider's talisman kinda fucking sucks

[slim cairn]

Sure the other ones can work together

[fossil finch]

tbh

[slim cairn]

But they arent tailored to do that

[slim cairn]

Imo true

[slim cairn]

They just have effects that sorta

Happen to work for both styles

But separately

They dont benefit a playstyle that uses both equally

Specially since you will be having stealth regen accessories and at least 3 silent modifiers which does limit your reforges for spam

[fossil finch]

theres a reason the stealth only mod exists

[slim cairn]

I do wish i could word my arguments better because i feel like they come out a bit weak after the thought phase

[violet zephyr]

It just doesn't, though?

[grim tusk]

Hybrid rogue is niche but when it works it can work

Although Rogue’s rework is still far away, having more incentive to mix up strategy while in combat is a plan

[slim cairn]

Thats good to hear

[violet zephyr]

Thinking on this, killing Silent may actually be beneficial, despite how backwards this sounds towards wanting to "increase variety in playstyles".

[slim cairn]

As long as it doesnt make stealth worse to try, im not against it

[grim tusk]

Outclassed utterly by Rotten Dogtooth (post-EoC) and Coin of Deceit. And Raider’s talisman aint that easy to get right out the bat unlike coin

[slim cairn]

Because if not much changed itd just make new players hate rogue even more

[grim tusk]

Plan is to kill Coin line’s current cost reduction and change how stealth works to be more intuitive and varied

[violet zephyr]

Aren't both of these stealth accessories?

[slim cairn]

Hm

[fossil finch]

Stealth is rogue though

[grim tusk]

Funnily enough Rogue is becoming more like Throium Thrower and viceversa in some aspects

[violet zephyr]

Spam is also Rogue, yet you keep trying to deny that.

[slim cairn]

As long as its not as abandoned as thrower is phm its fine by me

[grim tusk]

If you think they are stealth exclusive, you didnt get the point of the items

[fossil finch]

You've very little reason to spec into spam if stealth is better

[slim cairn]

I tried thorium as thrower 2 months ago and uh

[frail fox]

6% increased rogue crit chance carries

[slim cairn]

[violet zephyr]

Coin of Deceit has the 6% crit chance too doesnt it

[violet zephyr]

FUCK

THAT LINE IS FUCKED

[grim tusk]

Rotten dogtooth works both as a stealth hit boost but also as a spam hit boost due to the crumbling debuff (it usually doesnt last long enough for stealth to benefit from it at thst stage)

[violet zephyr]

Kill it with fire.

[slim cairn]

Explodes you with my stealth strike

[fossil finch]

We think that "hybrid" should Be rogue and it is simply up to player to invest into either spam or stealth

[frail fox]

Agreed

[violet zephyr]

You missed.

[fossil finch]

then again stealth is kind of Embedded into everything because its given by armors which we've always thought is kinda stupid

[grim tusk]

and switch up playstyle depending on the stituation instead of sticking to only one

[slim cairn]

Not innacurate

[grim tusk]

Yes, getting rid of this is in plans

[frail fox]

Rogue ultimately just needs to stop trying to be being 2 classes in 1

[grim tusk]

Both have their shenanigans, altho currently stealth does have a bit more and usually stronger altho spam rogue also has mfing balance monstrosity GoR

[slim cairn]

The rogue talk is honestly coming together much better than the last ranger one ngl

[fossil finch]

Can we do something about rogue having two endgame dedicated accesories while other classes don't get shit outside of like melee with warbanner/badge of bravery and ranger with donor item/donor item

[frail fox]

Rogue has 4 if you wanna be specific

[fossil finch]

We'd like pretending bandit's accessories aren't real

[grim tusk]

Honestly a whip accessory wouldnt be that bad later down the line

[violet zephyr]

Too bad, they're nearly half the Rogue accessories.

[grim tusk]

Mage also has ideas for it but nothing set in stone

[fossil finch]

Maybe the knuckle gauntlet could get a cute little line for summoner wdk

[grim tusk]

Will consider this or at least nerfing it, 8% is too much Imo but changing that currently would fuck up everything (best to wait til the rework)

[fossil finch]

We've always liked how summoner has a whip acc there

[violet zephyr]

Ah, yes. A whip accessory. (How much does Melee Speed even impact whips?)

[fossil finch]

A decent amount

We're not mad that an accessory actively benefits two classes tbh

[slim cairn]

I agree, its interesting to keep it in mind for the future but doing that now would just discourage even more people from trying rogue

[fossil finch]

Specially when it means summoner gets something going for it since early on

and then since summoner doesn't want the melee stuff, you spec into berserker's glove instead

[frail fox]

The biggest thing that needs to be done with the rogue rework (besides making stealth usable without armor, which is obviously happening) is that it makes spam and stealth not complete opposite and hurt the other one, like as said before stealth could remain when spamming but not go up/go up much more slowly

So spam could still get stealth strikes just less often than stealth

Of course there’s a lot more you could do, but that’s just the biggest issue of the class as a whole currently and should be changed

[misty lichen]

12% crit chance (EXTREMELY CONDITIONAL) vs 6% crit chance (all the fucking time)

[silver harness]

Let's not forget that it also decays quickly.

It could be better if it was 1.05x additive damage multiplier.

Because crit chance temporary boosts suck a lot.

[novel belfry]

i personally really do not like spam just because it feels like its not using the mechanic that differentiates rogue from the other classes

[echo leaf]

Maybe it makes stealth decay over 5 seconds instead of depleting instantly

[novel belfry]

if i wanted to play something like that i'd probably just use some other class

but thats just me

[echo leaf]

Obviously this would be hilariously overpowered with the stealth strike cost reduction but assuming you could only do one stealth strike

[silver harness]

If there ever will be accessories that refund stealth I would want to see a build with 100% stealth strike cost refund. It will be overpowered and fun.

[echo leaf]

gfb supernova

but more

[frail fox]

This is just the Coin of Deceit line

[silver harness]

What if you gain stealth meter from choosing a rogue weapon instead of equipping rogue armor?

[echo leaf]

periodic stealth strikes would eliminate boss minions

imagine if everybody got access to Supernova for SCal's little friend guys

sepulcher already gets bullied

[silver harness]

Soul seekers have resistance to supernova.

[frail fox]

This is probably the plan for the future yes

[novel belfry]

im 100% sure that the devs have heard this

[echo leaf]

Oh rad

[silver harness]

Also different weapons could have different max stealth and it's regeneration values.

[echo leaf]

Rogues can use allclass armor

Mollusk rogue is real

[novel belfry]

locking the class’s core mechanic behind their armor sets is so wack to me

[silver harness]

I want this.

[echo leaf]

well except gem tech
gem tech loves everybody equally

[olive saddle]

gem tech needs a buff

[silver harness]

Sadly that nobody uses gem tech. Probably because due to it's set bonus that it has zero bonuses that are active all the time. Made for no hitters multiclass or what?

[grim tusk]

Multiclass

[frail fox]

Nohit armor with an onhit damage effect

[grim tusk]

Altho most people ignore it due to auric being extremely good or due to killing exos last and at that point Demonshade is better

There’s also its cost

Rather make miracle matter weapons than the armor

[silver harness]

If you trigger it then you lose damage bonuses.

[grim tusk]

And have to switch to a different class

[golden sonnet]

Yeah, you just cycle each time you get hit

[echo leaf]

It's designed to be multiclass but the only people that consistently use it are nohitters

[grim tusk]

Yep, even tho it has amazing dmg

[echo leaf]

oh 100%

[silver harness]

At first I thought that it was a vanity set at first lol.

[echo leaf]

FREE summoner class

[golden sonnet]

That's mostly just because most people don't multiclass

[echo leaf]

Which is a crime >:(

[golden sonnet]

It's very strong even when not no hitting

[grim tusk]

Theres also fucking no stealth consumption on non rogue weapons

[echo leaf]

That's hilarious

[grim tusk]

However Auric has dash and that mfing revive that I hate

[echo leaf]

And Bloodflare regen

[grim tusk]

That too

[echo leaf]

I will always hype up the bloodflare regen

[frail fox]

Auric and it’s 12 million effects

[echo leaf]

yeah really

[golden sonnet]

Zenith armor

[echo leaf]

a million billion effects and they're all awesome

[grim tusk]

Silva revive used to be good back when it was 4 armors into 1 and the dmg values were way higher and defensive options were lacking

Now its a literal crutch

[echo leaf]

FR

[frail fox]

Silva revive with draconic elixir…

[silver harness]

Auric is awesome for defense builds.

[novel belfry]

auric armor imo can get away with its five million set bonuses because it’s essentially the final one

[echo leaf]

It's a get out of skill issue free card, but it doesn't solve the skill issue

[grim tusk]

And it has more bonuses than demonshade, which needs a rework

[silver harness]

When godslayer wings...

[novel belfry]

draconic elixir…

[silver harness]

I feel sad that there's no post moon lord wings that give stat bonuses expect movement speed with any set.

[echo leaf]

demonshade wings when

[median scaffold]

Magical mantle that makes you fly

[silver harness]

Gem tech, omega blue, blood flare wings.

[silver harness]

I remember something like that in some joke calamity addon.

[median scaffold]

...yeahhh, it exists

Holy Mantle from CCR, iirc

[echo leaf]

Demonshade wings 🥺

Except make them somehow worse than drew's wings

[novel belfry]

yknow what

[drowsy plank]

more wings coming 2000never

[echo leaf]

Like give them the Vortex Booster treatment

Horizontal speed of 7.00 and acceleration mult of 2

[median scaffold]

Demonshade wings, but they have the same stats as Nebula Mantle

[silver harness]

Make it work like bone wings.

[echo leaf]

And make the stats just reduce the incoming damage whilst using enrage

from... 1.25x (??) to 1.15x

[median scaffold]

That sounds good, tho

[novel belfry]

just use this guys wings for demonshade wings

or this

[echo leaf]

enrage does not have any drawbacks

[silver harness]

This one ideally fits.

[echo leaf]

you spam the button and nothing happens except your damage gets bigger

set up an autoclicker to spam the dopamine button

[median scaffold]

That 1.25x damage multiplier (you don't get hit, lol)

[echo leaf]

oh no I took extra damage I guess I need to use my draeheart healing earlier

[silver harness]

Pov: enrage and cosmilite soul artifact (I forgot how it is called)

[echo leaf]

Dimensional Soul Artifact

Love that thing

So fucking funny dude

[median scaffold]

Demonshade's Enrage when survivability comes into play (I have DraeHeart, The Sponge, Radiance and...!)

[echo leaf]

real

you have 5 defensive accessories and they're all the best

[median scaffold]

...ahh, I love that

[echo leaf]

even demonshade itself just gives you 16 HP/s if you ask politely

[median scaffold]

Basically free up my damage accessories for more survivability
Truely, the Boss Rush meta

[silver harness]

This is the way I beaten nameless deity.

[median scaffold]

Not 17HP/s?

[echo leaf]

It's one of them

Either way that's a really big number

[median scaffold]

That's a sunny stone basically in your ass

[echo leaf]

No sun necessary

[median scaffold]

You stay, you get so much HP back, you do crazy damage
That's balancing for ya

[echo leaf]

Add in The Camper for maximum healing

[median scaffold]

...or not the Sunny Stone. That thing from Expert Golem

[silver harness]

Then combine it with crimson enchantment from fargo souls.

[echo leaf]

Sun Stone

I wish Camper actually worked with Photosynthesis potions and Sun Stone

That would be really funny

[echo leaf]

Just looked it up- you're right

It's 17 HP/s

[median scaffold]

Does it work with Demonshade's healing?

[echo leaf]

I doubt it

[silver harness]

Probably it does.

[median scaffold]

iirc, it overrides Photosynthesis, Sun Stone and that one buff from a whip from DoG

[echo leaf]

A whip from DoG? He doesn't drop any whips

[silver harness]

Because they boost natural regen and not add.

[echo leaf]

Are you using Unofficial Clamity Whips?

[median scaffold]

Flail*

[silver harness]

Cosmic discharge.

[median scaffold]

Yeah, that thing

[echo leaf]

no, it's buff regen

[median scaffold]

Demonshade's buff is a life regen one

[echo leaf]

photosynthesis provides buff regen and natural regen but not demonshade for some reason

[median scaffold]

Radiance usually grants the maximum LifeRegenTime

[echo leaf]

17 HP/s is fine and dandy but 17 HP/s AND natural health regen? that's where they draw the line

[misty lichen]

38 band of regens shoved inside my ass

[mint galleon]

def ur ass will regenarate faster than other body parts of u

[median scaffold]

I guess we should make a funeral for the bot...?

[olive saddle]

Rest in pieces suggestion bot
You will be missed. Oh how sad and tragic

Raesh got a banger suggestion

I forgot brimrose existed

[spice stream]

brimrose is also super fast horizontally

[median scaffold]

73mph, iirc

[dense locust]

17*
Band got buffed in labor of love

Wait

Thatd be 19

[misty lichen]

in 1.4 actually

but i was referring to what was true when demonshade was created

because that was the life regen basis

[dense locust]

Ah

[mystic tree]

why did they nerf dog wtf its the easiest post ml boss

[misty lichen]

SPITTING

[lunar ridge]

thats what im saying

they need to nerf desert scourge im streuggling with it

[ashen warren]

ong bro

[lunar ridge]

fr

[umbral gazelle]

this is good message out of context

[mystic tree]

nerf storm weaver instead no lie that boss is ass

[echo leaf]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/893924166925955104/1256994458721849466/stormWeaverPet.gif

[drowsy plank]

hey guys i got a great idea for this suggestion i bet you can't guess what it is

[golden sonnet]

I disagree with this suggestion

Not everything needs to have an alternative obtainment, especially not vanity

You shouldn't never need to grind anything

And if the grind is too bad then just increase the rates

[violet zephyr]

I don't understand. They want to make vanity items that are barely connected able to be crafted into eachother? i.e, you can craft Signus' trophy with Ancient Godslayer vanity armour?

[umbral gazelle]

*make it craftable

[golden sonnet]

No

That's the exact thing I'm saying not to do

[umbral gazelle]

its PEAK.... you just dont understand

[weary plaza]

increasing the drop rates of vanity items straight up could make ur boss bags have too much item bloat, and i dont think u should be able to just exchange the vanity items for free, so it should prob require some materials that the boss drops for the recipe as well
(also before anyone jumps on me saying it goes against lore i dont think vanity items have a lore implication in the first place)

[golden sonnet]

There is no sense having multiple ways to obtain it if the same result is gotten by just buffing the rates, adding a recipe for every single vanity drop is just unnecessary

[echo leaf]

Some vanities are trophies for either luck or a grind

[golden sonnet]

Not everything needs to be given to the player, calamity already does too much for removing any grind

[weary plaza]

yea ok fair point
my thought reasoning behind this was cuz vanity items dont really have any balancing implications and are just used as cosmetics so things wouldnt get too broken with interchangeable recipes
ill take it down if theres any serious issues with it ig

[golden sonnet]

I mean, I'm just a user not a mod

I personally disagree with it but don't think it's against the rules, so no need to take it down

But I would rather have like, clothier just sell it rather than unnecessary recipe bloat

[weary plaza]

oh yea ok that might be a good change

ill edit the msg

[novel belfry]

give the clothier a function to convert trophies to masks

[echo leaf]

Trophies already can be obtained from every drop

Shimmering a lore item produces a trophy

[boreal lichen]

storm weaver already has a rework planned. and getting nerfed doesn't help with how his fight is like right now

[misty lichen]

the year is 2038, all items have 5 ways of obtainment

one is the original, one for qol, one for low% players, one through shimmer, one for i can’t think of another one

[distant gyro]

i mean, in all fairness, "recipe bloat" is less tangible than shop bloat

there are 40 allocated slots to a shop without the use of addons

[golden sonnet]

Vanilla already utilizes multiple tabs for NPCs

[drowsy plank]

poor dryad...
as soon as you get like two mods at once there is like a 99% chance her shop overflows

[distant gyro]

a recipe bloat only exists if you look at the guide for sweepingly used materials (which relics aren't) or you're scrolling the wiki (technically not a part of the game)

[golden sonnet]

And I mostly disagree with the fact they need an easier way to get them in the first place

[distant gyro]

we just had a gravitation for culling recipe bloat for the latter reason honestly

[drowsy plank]

wouldnt the easier thing....... just be to have the vanity sets shimmer with something..................

[misty lichen]

mr shimmer

[sleek turret]

calamity and mutant

[distant gyro]

calamity only adds 3 to dryad surely its not that bad

[sleek turret]

its uhh

[distant gyro]

or 5 if you collect my conditions

[sleek turret]

jungle rose, mana rose, ???

[distant gyro]

the dog pet

kendra

[sleek turret]

grapes as well if you do the happiness thing

[distant gyro]

yeah if you somehow make a happy dryad post skeletron in a graveyard

you get seeds and grapes for a total of 5

[median scaffold]

That's oddly specific

[misty lichen]

graveyards aren’t even a negative to happiness right

[median scaffold]

What seeds does she sell?

[misty lichen]

shed just be happy

[distant gyro]

evil seeds

[median scaffold]

Not during Blood Moon?

[gaunt needle]

opposite evil seeds in fact

[misty lichen]

and painter sells way more items in a graveyard, i feel like jungle graveyard is pretty common if anything

[golden sonnet]

My favorite is that the evil seeds stack with vanillas, so in hardmode she sells two copies

Iirc

[median scaffold]

Yeah, I know, but don't remember when does she sell them

[distant gyro]

oh thats awesome i would patch that out

[sleek turret]

graveyard is really common now that you can craft the gravestone

[drowsy plank]

it's only bad because vanilla dryad already sells a shit ton of stuff so as soon as a Second Mod Hits The Dryad she's usually giving overflowing shop errors

[sleek turret]

in vanilla maybe yea it's usual to have some gravestones if you struggle with the enviroment

[drowsy plank]

honestly shop overflow should be an issue base tmod deals with i know it's possible

[golden sonnet]

It's not an issue for me because I dislike fargos mutant, problem solved

[drowsy plank]

like there's already a shop page mod on the browser

lmao

[median scaffold]

Why would you need to craft them, anyways?
iirc, in hardcore, where it would be useful, you can get tombstones from dead NPCs

[sleek turret]

i mean there are various at this point

gravestone crafting is calamity change for the graveyard stuff since people don't want to die 13 times or whatever idk

[median scaffold]

I think most people usually die 13+ times prior to the point when graveyard becomes useful

[sleek turret]

hardcore gravestone method is easier now in vanilla because of flymeal

[median scaffold]

And Nasty Cholla in Calamity

[sleek turret]

yea nasty cholla

[misty lichen]

does nasty cholla stick to players

[median scaffold]

They probably do not...

[distant gyro]

nasty cholla is rather funny because depending on some npc defense it may deal 1 whole damage so its an eternal tickle

[misty lichen]

that thing does like 200 dps base xd

[distant gyro]

oh actually you could probably stealth

[golden sonnet]

Try it on the nurse, see what happens

[median scaffold]

3-4 nasty chollas can kill an NPC most of the times

[distant gyro]

stealth the npc to death

[misty lichen]

the wretched global iframes:

[distant gyro]

dubious

[gaunt needle]

wtf actual stealth mechanic?? in my calamity mod?

[median scaffold]

Can I request a huge buff to Flymeal, so it won't take an eternity to kill Supreme Witch NPC and make it viable on some bosses, smh?

[distant gyro]

please consider using exhumed weapons instead

[sleek turret]

i mean you could make it so its % based damage if its that necessary

[golden sonnet]

Post SCal you can just use exhumed

[golden sonnet]

This yeah

[misty lichen]

use accessories that let you inflict debuffs on all damage

[distant gyro]

you will not make calamitas stink to death

[median scaffold]

I have enough willpower to make Calamitas stink to death, don't worry.

[golden sonnet]

Cinders of lament one shotting my entire town

[misty lichen]

with elemental gauntlet it should be a cakewalk, aflame even if she’s not immune to it

[echo leaf]

just change the base damage value with a cheat

[median scaffold]

Cinders of Lament in SSO when it comes to killing NPCs (no self damage);

[distant gyro]

i swear cal made npcs immune to all debuffs except the ones you can throw on them like love or stink

i dont know if this is still a real change that exists

last i checked its still there

[echo leaf]

yeah, I’m pretty sure that’s the case

[misty lichen]

literally why would it do that

😭

[echo leaf]

I remember reading it on the wiki

[distant gyro]

probably to make it harder for them to catch strays and die

[median scaffold]

Let them catch strays and die

[distant gyro]

though at some point they just die anyway

[echo leaf]

They’ll be back

[misty lichen]

but attacks deal damage and debuff durations are nerfed

[distant gyro]

well they do have scaling defense

not particularly a lot but it's there!

[misty lichen]

if you get both of the items to explicitly buff npc stats then it is a lot

[tired haven]

Something like 75% projectile DR and up to... 140ish defense by postML if you killed all bosses, I wanna say?

Never did the full math on that because the practicality of it is

[distant gyro]

if you kill all the bosses and maxed out the combat techniques then apparently its 200 defense

[median scaffold]

...why

[distant gyro]

108 from calamity's pml bosses, 12 from combat techniques

[median scaffold]

Most NPCs will still die if I summon Destroyer

[violet zephyr]

We should give Town NPCs 100% defense effectiveness.

[median scaffold]

Cirrus on her way to be my summon:

[tired haven]

Well yeah, 99% of the time npcs die because they don't resist contact dmg and said contact dmg is usually the heaviest hitting part

[distant gyro]

yeah

npcs probably wont die from stray lasers but will the head bulldoze through them anyway? absolutely

[median scaffold]

Most projectiles don't hit NPCs that often, anyway

...do people really care about NPCs?

[distant gyro]

also reason why destroyer is the most likely npc to do that around that progression

[distant gyro]

i can name one case and it's scal apparently because her projectiles travel so far it will crossmap snipe something

[novel belfry]

i just downloaded a mod that makes npcs unkillable and called it a day

[median scaffold]

I just don't spawn bosses in my towns, smh

[distant gyro]

apparently brimstone darts last a whole 10.5 seconds

[median scaffold]

Don't they despawn or smth?

[novel belfry]

ya

[median scaffold]

...huh

[wide river]

But how will I get my Clothier's Wrath now

[median scaffold]

What's the reason behind that?

[median scaffold]

Flymeal.

Or Nasty Cholla, whatever makes you feel more satisfied

[distant gyro]

may be the distance between 1 corner of the arena and the opposite side

[boreal lichen]

use something else

[distant gyro]

but this also means yep if she shot it outside the arena it will keep going

[tired haven]

empress of light lances having like a default 60 seconds or smth as they crossmap snipe you respawning mid-fight in multiplayer

[distant gyro]

incredible

i love empress of light lances

i remember seeing that happened before

[echo leaf]

I was fighting Infernum destroyer and some of my NPCs housed on a sky island in an entire other biome were dying

[spice stream]

the power of piercing projectiles

[echo leaf]

it was in the fucking underground jungle
and the NPCs were dying in the sky

[fossil mural]

Is the bot dead

[golden sonnet]

yes

[fossil mural]

I feel like I havent seen a thing from it in forever

Rip bot

[unborn raft]

I was gonna ask if this has been added yet, but I'm just gonna download the game and check lol

[willow widget]

[unborn raft]

Yeah not yet

Womp womp

[willow widget]

dw, sunken sea update will have it most likely

[unborn raft]

Yeah I'll be waiting

[median scaffold]

@gaunt sphinx
Firstly, kinda no title
Secondly, this is better suited for #1052323733961977947 under "oversight" tag

[gaunt sphinx]

👍

[gaunt sphinx]

Thanks for letting me know where to post it.

:D

[median scaffold]

No problems

[gaunt sphinx]

I like grammar, so it kinda bothered me.

[errant wind]

Is the suggestion thing broken?

[sand marlin]

Bot is dead yes

[harsh echo]

The bot is dead and we have killed him

[hollow verge]

sad!

[dense locust]

this breaks like
2 don'ts and a frequent

@cosmic canopy I would recommend reading the document in the pins of this channel

[cosmic canopy]

i don't really think my suggestion breaks any of those

[violet zephyr]

You are not allowed to suggest things about future content.

Please properly read the document.

[cosmic canopy]

i just gave the idea that best fitted, they're free to change it in any way they want

[hollow shell]

Yeah indeed this is future content

You're not supposed to make suggestions about anything that's not in the game yet

Because you can't make an informed suggestion about it
i.e. For all you know the sets do do this

[violet zephyr]

Heh...

"Do do".

English is a funny language.

[drowsy plank]

it's amazing how confidently wrong people can be

like i could go get three direct quotes from the document that this is violating

[restive wharf]

suggestion discussion

[sleek turret]

get this man a True gif

[umbral gazelle]

no way is that steve

[restive wharf]

I

am Steve

[echo leaf]

There’s no guarantee that the charge mechanic would still exist by the time the arsenal armors arrive

At least not in its current state

[lucid marsh]

You're also not allowed to suggest anything about power cell mechanic DESPITE THE FACT THAT ITS A WORTHLESS TECH DEMO THAT NEVER SHOULD HAVE EXISTED

[misty lichen]

thats, not what tech demo means

[novel belfry]

it was an experiment to see if players would do something

iirc

as of now, it appears that was a bad idea

[fleet grotto]

society if arsenal weapons didn't have any charge mechanics

[novel belfry]

society if arsenal weapon charge could just regenerate over time or on death

[crude geode]

Society

[lucid marsh]

I see it as a tech demo of having machines that do things in terraria

[crude geode]

What

Does wiring and traps and liquid pumps and everything the mechanic sells not count

[odd geyser]

society if you could exchange pipe bombs with a person while you're aggressively threatening them to death over calamity whips

hell

society if you could throw rocks at people that post suggestions cause throwing rocks is fun :3

[lucid marsh]

I mean a new one, and one that interacts with the game's main focus (combat)

[fossil finch]

none of that is true crying

it isn't a tech demo nor really "an experiment" it was indeed a mechanic meant to drive the player to interact with other systems, it isn't useful because the weapons have been balanced to flattenly match everything else when charged to 100%, which just leads the player to use other things because they don't have to charge it

[crude geode]

Insert the 500 videos of wiring being used to one shot dungeon guardian and other shits

[crude geode]

^ this

There’s no point to it when you both get easier to deal with weapons and more complexity (Ark line when it)

Players will interact with more systems when it benefits them, but as of now the benefit is very tame weapons compared to a lot of the newer designs

[novel belfry]

this is insanely appropriate becuase thats just ruins (and a fuck ton of kut-kus too)

[odd geyser]

We're the kutkus

Evolve into perfection

[lucid marsh]

I think anyone could have told you that no one wants a charge mechanic, just based on the sheer number of "quality of life" mods that make it unnecessary to interact with the game for things like potions or mining

[violet zephyr]

Ultra Liquidator is certainly an upgrade to Infernal Rift.

[wide river]

I forgot it existed and only remembered when I was using the random page feature on the wiki cuz I was bored

[hollow shell]

They removed the debuffs from Ultra Liquidator???

[violet zephyr]

Why do the secondary hits never hit?

[wide river]

Back in from the ashes I believe

[violet zephyr]

That is actually pathetic.

[hollow shell]

That was its whole point
That's what it was named after

[violet zephyr]

Correct.

[wide river]

Well that's just sad

[frozen hornet]

We need to add ultra liquidation debuff

[violet zephyr]

All changes to debuffs on Ultra Liquidator.

[crude geode]

It really is pointless now

[hollow shell]

Make it an upgrade to Betsy's Wrath or something

[crude geode]

The entire identity erased

[fossil finch]

People refusing to interact with half the game motivated by Calamity's absurd focus on Bossfights isn't a valid reason to Not drive calamity away from that focus through mechanics and the like

[violet zephyr]

I would rather let Betsy's Curse be forgotten than make it more easily accessable.

[crude geode]

If boss fights were all cal wanted to focus on, we wouldn’t be having biome reworks

[fossil finch]

Like under your reason calamity might as well not be updating ss or crags or adding distortion because people use """""""qol"""""""" mods to skip exploration and enemy fighting and

[crude geode]

🤝

[frail fox]

Pretty sure this thing has dev plans unless things changed

[violet zephyr]

What was that one charge weapon that had really high max charge damage but also used most of its charge in one fight?

[fossil finch]

People aren't wary of dev plans all the time and we don't think dev plans have ever been a reason for suggestions to Not exist

[wide river]

I haven't heard a single word about this thing in several months at least so that's news to me

[fossil finch]

unless they're like really obvious and public

[novel belfry]

WHY THE FUCK WOULD THEY DO THIS

[fossil finch]

or boss based, but boss suggs never get anywhere anyways

[crude geode]

Wdym after the five hundredth time I suggested moving ravager it didn’t influence devs

[fossil finch]

(the decision was already being discussed before your Sugg came along, of cou

(we got shot by the ravager ninjas

[frail fox]

Regardless, I’m just saying that’s probably why it’d get denied, if it does

[violet zephyr]

Honestly, it feels like all the non-Elemental weapons that are directly Post Moon Lord and are made from Galactica Singularity are easily forgettable. Was just looking at all of them and...
What is a Cosmic Rainbow?
Or Galactus Blade?
I have literally never heard of a Solstice Claymore before.

[fossil finch]

Galactus blade should be removed because its a crime to have that trivia

cosmic Rainbow is just donor augh

[crude geode]

Yeahhhhhh

[fossil finch]

Claymore is sword melee bloat our favorite

[violet zephyr]

No it isn't.

[lucid marsh]

I am of the opinion that you should make the mechanics more fun and carefully consider which ones to add

[fossil finch]

Tf

[crude geode]

Prismatic Breaker might be what you’re thinking of?

And what I was thinking of?

[fossil finch]

wretched that cosmic Rainbow isn't a weird donor first-born

[lucid marsh]

Also what a disappointment with the ultra liquidator thing

[royal tapir]

Yeah they're kinda in limbo

[fossil finch]

Well yes we are pretty sure everyone is of the opinion you should add good things and make things good

[crude geode]

That doesn’t mean charge is a bad mechanic, just that it’s currently really badly implemented (and by that I mean you get to do one thing with charge)

[violet zephyr]

Can you get rid of Solstice Claymore on the basis on that I have not heard of it before.

[fossil finch]

This isn't really saying anything because the mechanic is already added, was added 5 years ago and also kinda worked fine when the arsenal Did Do more damage

Claymore is like floe sword

[violet zephyr]

It also looks ugly.

[wide river]

In the words of Cog
"Popsicle sword"

[crude geode]

Why was Ultra changed to its current state of not having debuffs and instead just being bland

[lucid marsh]

But like, I can't imagine any way to make the charge mechanic fun for weapons, unless you add things the calamity devs have refused to add, like the battery charger in inventory idea

[royal tapir]

No

[violet zephyr]

Fascinating. Now I can't get the image of a Solstice Claymore being sold in an ice cream van.

[fossil finch]

calamity hates fun! This message is contributing a lot to this conversation

[frail fox]

Probably because the debuff purge didn’t realize that it’s niche was a debuff thing

[royal tapir]

That decision was made well before I became a dev

[fleet grotto]

can you get rid of the forbidden oathsword+ line bc i don't like it

[fossil finch]

This is valid

You're wrong but this is valid

[violet zephyr]

I wouldn't be surprised that they didn't realise it was its niche, considering it inflicted as many debuffs as a lot of weapons did at the time, and would always only inflict it for 2 seconds or less.

[frail fox]

Nvm it stopped being a debuff weapon 4 years ago

[fleet grotto]

no way I've been playing this game for that long

[violet zephyr]

Essentially, it lost its niche long before they purged pointless debuffs on weapons.

[fossil finch]

Was it part of the Flattening

[frail fox]

No it was in 1.4.5

[fossil finch]

wretched

[violet zephyr]

The debuffs on the weapon probably contributed 2% of the total damage.

[fossil finch]

Ichor and Cursed Flames; hiiiiiiiiii