suggestions-discussion

[hollow verge]

my opinion is just "put the hard ai changes into death, put the stat changes into master, the current state is messy"

and im frustrated that sugg was rejected

[dense ferry]

Master has changes to Vanilla Bosses rn except Moon Lord

As I said, it's a work in progress

[idle dagger]

Hm ok

[errant wren]

expert death is fun, even though i'm bad at the game

[dense ferry]

Yeah, we know it's messy, and we plan on making it be less messy later. Simple as that, really

[hollow verge]

my main experience w exp+death was infernum so i cant speak to its fun

i heavily disliked infernum but maybe expert+death is more fun

[sleek turret]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/886673434074054719/1283964033564934155/ezgif-7-d0de33c85c.gif

real difficulty settings are the megaman classic games treatment where you name them Normal and Hard and that's it

[echo leaf]

That's good

[slim cairn]

Death so far hasnt been easier for me personally

Though idk if it was about rev and death specifically

Or master rev and mdeath

[dense ferry]

Like, I'm sorry guys but did all of you really think we'd leave Master and Death as they are right now?

[slim cairn]

The changes have been subtle but noticeable enough

[dense ferry]

Like, I didn't think I'd have to come out and say "yeah it's not finished yet" for people to realize that

[slim cairn]

Like the twins dash

[dense ferry]

Only one third of the Bosses have changes yet

[slim cairn]

True, im just talking about my experience so far

It doesnt seem to be easier personally so far

[dense ferry]

Or that, surprise, we wouldn't make Death be Just More AIs

[slim cairn]

(ik its meant to be harder im indirectly replying to schmoovi)

[golden sonnet]

there is a difference between a difficulty being unfinished and the entire interaction between difficulties being messy. And the rejection of suggestions to address it may have come off that way, so it did kinda come off that way

[dense ferry]

I know it's messy, and honestly it is fairly divided even in Dev, but ultimately we quite simply think that overall their interactions are fine

(Especially because we plan on actually making you able to select between Classic, Expert and Master on the world next update)

[slim cairn]

Huh thatd be interesting

[harsh echo]

Excellent

[slim cairn]

Itd likely encourage players to experiment a lot too

So people who are scared of expert rev because of overexageration can get into it easier

[errant wren]

classic rev+ real??

[fossil finch]

weeping

[sleek turret]

absolutely horrible detestable even

[hollow verge]

ngl i wouldve done this my first playthru - i just did classic to get used to the cal progression + i heard this mod was Difficult™️ and i wanted to ease myself in. but i was a lil disappointed that rev was locked to expert.

my first cal difficulty was master+rev because i was. unaware. the boss had ai changes different from expert+rev.

[errant wren]

oh ok

i'll see myself out then

[novel belfry]

I think master mode rev+ changes should be lumped into a single bonus difficulty mode

or rather when choosing master, by default you get revegeance

[fossil finch]

We think the master mode rev ai changes just shouldn't exist

Or be death

[novel belfry]

its weird that calamity, a mod known for doing a ton of changes to vanilla content, didn't want to change master mode to "revengeance " intially, and then when they decided to do master mode changes, its just a different set of changes

[fossil finch]

And master should be like, left alone to be its funny stat bloat gremlin

[novel belfry]

the insane changes like oblivion skeletron prime would definitely be cool in death

cause again, Death is just a weird mode

only slight tweaks

[median scaffold]

> Slight tweaks
> SkelePrime having a second head

[olive saddle]

They mean atm its only slight tweaks and they want it to be not slight tweaks

[median scaffold]

Genuinely, I would like to see more death changes to make it similar to Normal / Expert difference, but can't say for sure if the devs would like to maintain it

[olive saddle]

From what ive heard this was wanted originally but fab kept vetoing difficulty changes?

[median scaffold]

Fab does the most if not practically all of the boss changes, so that makes sense

~~Also, you probably know about Malice's existence... ~~

[umbral gazelle]

#suggestions-posting message oughhhhhh

[north oracle]

@gaunt glacier this is already planned

[gaunt glacier]

Srry I don't read the plans too often

[north oracle]

reasoning is incorrect anyway but that's not the point

[gaunt glacier]

Hoping it releases in the near future then ig

[slim cairn]

It wont

They need to see how the new terraria whips work first

So they can rebalance summoner properly

[gaunt glacier]

Right. I forgot about that.

[north oracle]

There's a solid chance there'll be some in SSO iirc (with the full summoner rebalance including a massive kalei nerf)

[gaunt glacier]

But since 1.4.5 should release soon (or at least that's what the devs say)

[gaunt glacier]

What does sso and iirc mean

[slim cairn]

Rest in peace kalei, i hope some post eol whips happen then

[north oracle]

Sunken sea overhaul
And if I recall correctly

[gaunt glacier]

Kaleidoscope maybe?

[north oracle]

We live in hope

[gaunt glacier]

Thank you <3

[slim cairn]

Kaleidoscope will be nerfed

[gaunt glacier]

Even in vanilla

?

[slim cairn]

No

Cal only im p sure, unless vanilla also plans on nerfing it separately

[north oracle]

Well
Probably not
We have nothing about vanilla internals lmao

[slim cairn]

Havent heard of that tho

[gaunt glacier]

Good. Kinda deserves it

[slim cairn]

I fear summoner might be course corrected a bit too much with the rebalance, but even if it does they can just buff it a bit

[gaunt glacier]

Yes.

It's also my fav class I hope it gets some love

[north oracle]

I would expect there'll be a pretty substantial blowback from the community whether it's overshot or not

The community has never handled nerfs well

[slim cairn]

True

[gaunt glacier]

True

[slim cairn]

Cmt and here will suck for a while when the update drops wont it

[north oracle]

Yep!

[median scaffold]

It fucking will

[violet zephyr]

What?

[slim cairn]

After the summoner changes

[violet zephyr]

No.

Look at the new suggestion.

It is, to put it lightly, awful.

[slim cairn]

Oh lol yeah

Im so used to seeing these suggestions it didnt even phase me

[violet zephyr]

@lapis warren You don't need to get Community. Getting it on tier is arguably a waste of time since it is just an average accessory. You can always go back and get it at a later time, when you have stronger gear. Plus, being a 10% drop is on purpose. And there is a benefit to killing Leviathan first. She is gone. That is the whole benefit.

[slim cairn]

Killing which depends for me

If i can burst anahita she goes down first, if not then leviathan

I dont mind community staying at 10% ngl

I do wish a few of the 10% weapons were regular drops tho

Because with weapons its a different story

With community its gonna be better at the point where leviana is easily farmable

But for weapons if you dont farm them in tier they are usually bad by the time you can

[median scaffold]

This "10% drops are awful to get / to use / just awful" problem can be applied to practically every other legendary drop

[slim cairn]

Id say its miles worse on weapons tbh

[median scaffold]

Agree

[slim cairn]

At least community is farmable easily when its most useful

[median scaffold]

Tbh, The Community is not that useful outside of early post-ML and post-SCal stages (and the latter is because of another item)

[slim cairn]

True

[fossil finch]

We think it should get buffed tbh

[gaunt needle]

Community should get reworked (or removed but that won't happen)

Progression scaling stat stick 😔

[fossil finch]

The whole point is that it's a stat stick with progression scaling

[slim cairn]

Honestly i agree with you

Though by how much

So it doesnt make it op

[hollow verge]

my sugg that didnt get votes:

[median scaffold]

That's quite sad
Repost the suggestion here, maybe we could do smth with it

[hollow verge]

aaa im out rn

[median scaffold]

It's okay, good luck with whatever you're doing rn

[hollow verge]

the DMV

[drowsy plank]

trying to figure out if the community one is invalid or not

i do agree community could use a buff considering it barely keeps pace with other stat sticks like cshell and affliction even when used properly

[sand marlin]

Well it doesn't say anything other than 10% drop rate bad and doesn't explain why and gives it a very specific fix

The latter more important

[drowsy plank]

yeah that is true

[median scaffold]

You meant this suggestion, btw? #suggestions-voting message

#suggestions-voting message
Also, this didn't pass yet, right?

[sand marlin]

This one could do with a repost ngl

[median scaffold]

I agree and thus why I ask if that's the suggestion Flarithen told

[sand marlin]

That's not their suggestion

[drowsy plank]

@lapis warren alright, rereading this i think i agree with habble; you don't really explain why community needs to be easier to get, and you try to outline the solution to this rather than just suggesting it as a possible solution. furthermore, the difficulty of which way to fight them is subjective.

this isn't even mentioning that due to community's scaling, unlike literally every other legendary, you can just go back and butcher these two with stronger gear a bunch to get the item and still have it be viable. id say out of every 10% drop, this one actually needs it the least.

[median scaffold]

It is, wdym

[sand marlin]

Flarithen =/= Critaquil

[median scaffold]

Are we talking about this or the "Frozen Shield" suggestion?

[sand marlin]

Well I replied to Frost Barrier suggestion

Anyway it's not a big deal or anything either way

[median scaffold]

My bad here, then

[hollow verge]

idk if we've had voting, i didnt see anything sent yesterday, but 80 isnt gonna make it

[idle dagger]

A community buff would be nice

I really don’t like the community and pretty much never use it

[echo leaf]

I think getting some minor bonuses to it at low power values wowuld be nice

[fossil finch]

honestly we think it should scale in a way it actually competes more with each tiers dedicated stat stick

[idle dagger]

That makes sense

[sand marlin]

#suggestions-voting message this didn't get a notification, as well as these #suggestions-voting message #suggestions-voting message

[median scaffold]

We should repost Frost Barrier and Legendary Drops suggestions, really

[sand marlin]

Well I've made my statement about the legendary drops suggestion before and it still is very apparent that it's not going to happen even if it did make it through but Frost Barrier I agree would be solid to repost

[sand marlin]

I'm gonna make notifications for these rq

[grave zinc]

@umbral gazelle - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Change Acid Tornado name]

It has been decided that your suggestion can neither be passed nor denied; either the devs have already made plans that conflict with it, or they have decided to implement an altered version.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@hollow verge - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make Old Duke Summoner deal no damage]

It has officially been implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[umbral gazelle]

WHEN THIS POPPED UP I THOUGHT THEY REMOVED OLD DUKE UNTIL I SEE THE MESSAGE BELOW

[sand marlin]

[echo leaf]

No that's coming in Wrath of the Gods

[sand marlin]

@drowsy plank - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Add Shroomerang to Mushroom Chest Loot]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[harsh echo]

I've heard shitty things about that place GL :(

[sand marlin]

@hollow verge - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Allow the Enchanted Sword to be shimmered into the Terragrim]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[hollow verge]

WOO

[hollow verge]

WOO x2

[sand marlin]

@heady hatch - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make Providence speak to us during the fight.]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[hollow verge]

there were multiple that got over 100 votes and werent sent to devs jesus

thats kind of annoying for them

[sand marlin]

Well you can always repost

[hollow verge]

im not one of thise

tbh i was looking at shit like the frost barrier sugg

[sand marlin]

Yeah, generally speaking

[drowsy plank]

nice

[hollow verge]

its just kinda sad

[grim tusk]

“Join me child”
“I cannot guide you, but I can give you a warm embrace” totally not going to turn you into ash
“All shall be cleansed as sinless ash”

[frosty trellis]

Looks like the def damage scaling changes was not popular damn

Not even close to the top

[hollow verge]

im mad abt that one because it was so right.

[frosty trellis]

Got like 87 votes and the top were all 110+

[grim tusk]

#suggestions-posting message

Legendaries 👏 are not 👏 mandatory 👏

[frosty trellis]

Unfortunate but it is what it is

[violet zephyr]

Should have said that you also wanted Calamity to create Wulfrum Furniture for the fifth hundred time.

[grim tusk]

#suggestions-voting message how tf did this get into #suggestions-voting didnt I exclam it for too much effort?

[median scaffold]

Can she speak like Specimen 8, please?

[hollow verge]

cit came in and said it isnt 👍

he removed it

[grim tusk]

Dont we already have chairs and stuff? Or did we miss things?

[frosty trellis]

Pretty sure cit literally cooked something up for it just to prove it wasn't too much effort

[grim tusk]

Thats gonna be a hell of a balance nightmare

[median scaffold]

[misty lichen]

it really isn’t

[sand marlin]

I proposed a cooldown for it

In case balance went to hell

[median scaffold]

Just do the same treatment as whip stacking

[royal tapir]

the real

[slim cairn]

That is true, however i think legendaries affect weapons the most imo, even if they arent mandatory

[frosty trellis]

I was gonna say I don't think it would really cause much balance issues

[slim cairn]

Yeah they arent but if you want to use them it might suck ass to farm

[misty lichen]

the reason i disagree with the suggestion is just because the feature literally only benefits minmaxers

[slim cairn]

And when they are easy to farm

[frosty trellis]

And in fact would just be better for the health of the game to allow players who are skilled enough at managing that sort of thing to get the benefits

[slim cairn]

You sorta wont be able to use them properly

[harsh echo]

i think many guides tell you to get the community

[misty lichen]

and that’s hyper minmax, which is also possible in game right now easily

[frosty trellis]

Which is bullshit

[median scaffold]

Because it was good at some point

And it is, indeed, bullshit

[sand marlin]

It absolutely would if you could keep up Ichor with literally 0 drawbacks and effort, just with the click of a button. And the fact that it lasts 10 seconds is so lenient

[frosty trellis]

Community is not good until like post polter it's just worse cschell for a long time

[sand marlin]

Also other DoT bullets

[grim tusk]

Crystal, Ichor, Chlorophyte, Bloodfire, Hyperrius, dryad’s tear. So many that will cause horrendous balance issues when allowed to be switched

[hollow verge]

mage and everyone who uses flasks:

[sand marlin]

This doesn't mean anything because those are actually balanced

[hollow verge]

they already can be switched w autopause. this is mostly qol and multiplayer

[grim tusk]

Summoner being a balance nightmare currently due to whips

[slim cairn]

Ngl, farming pbg for her 10% drop just to realize its mediocre at best

[grim tusk]

We dont balance around autopause

[slim cairn]

Was sad

[frosty trellis]

Is Malachite that bad now?

[sand marlin]

Like, you cannot tell me other classes can do it so why not ranger when ranger is already balanced without these

[grim tusk]

Good, altho people still grind Malachite due to a lack of homing options at the tier and it still being great just not boss obliterator anymore

[slim cairn]

It didnt really do much and i really try to test spam and stealth whenever people play rogue

[frosty trellis]

Oh
Nyope

Malachite is good

[misty lichen]

conveniently ignoring the summon weapon that shoots any bullet with no downside available immediately

[frosty trellis]

Very good in fact that stealth is aggregiously fucking strong

[sand marlin]

No I just forgot

[frosty trellis]

Alt fire looks useless byeah

[grim tusk]

Yea people just miss when Malachite carried you til DoG

[slim cairn]

Considering how difficult pbg can be, if someone can consistently farm her i dont think homing is a problem imo

[sand marlin]

Actually no

[frosty trellis]

Stealth still needs a nerf but yeah fair

[slim cairn]

Honestly its not even that i never used malachite before the nerf lol

I got back to calamity like this year

[sand marlin]

This doesn't work because ranger would have to not use a gun to benefit from this in a manner that matters

[grim tusk]

Alt fire is meant to be AoE, altho it doing worse than regular on Deus is wrong

[hollow verge]

anyway heres all the suggs that got over 100 but didnt make it and shouldve been sent imo. they were clearly popular and the top ones just got 110+ 😭
#suggestions-voting message
#suggestions-voting message
#suggestions-voting message
#suggestions-voting message

[misty lichen]

wow one subclass can’t use this

[sand marlin]

Yes

The subclass that is like

[misty lichen]

^^^^

[sand marlin]

Half of the class

Clearly that's not an issue

[slim cairn]

Also corpus avertor is uh

[hollow verge]

do i dare @ nycro /hj

[slim cairn]

It certainly exists

[misty lichen]

do it

[slim cairn]

Its there

It can deal damage

[grim tusk]

stealth is an enabler for funny dmg with spam

[misty lichen]

you’ll have to cope with the summon weapon that inflicts the strong crumbling

[grim tusk]

Tbh I mainly use it for lifesteal and funny dmg at low hp

[slim cairn]

Although at least i got lucky with corpus avertor

Got it in like 4 kills iirc

[sand marlin]

Wait there's one?

[slim cairn]

Not that ravager is hard

[misty lichen]

yeah

[slim cairn]

Just a bit boring to fight

[misty lichen]

apex shark or whatever

[frosty trellis]

Shark + Caustic staff

Have fun :)

[sand marlin]

Is it consistent like jet hawks?

[grim tusk]

It still has dogshit AI right?

[distant gyro]

a little problem with 10% drops is that you weren't really supposed to get them unless you're lucky and it becomes a dumb obstacle when you do intend to get it

think old 1/1m halibut cannon but less extreme

[frosty trellis]

Well yeah

[hollow verge]

@inland saddle multiple suggestions this round got over 100 votes, but the top 3 just happened to get 110+ and locked out 4 very popular things.

idk if this current system of top percentage is working well. it feels kind of... unfair when someone manages to break the 100 barrier and still not pass because the total votes cast mean only ones with very slight numbers go in

[slim cairn]

I do wish pristine fury was higher drop rate wise tho

[distant gyro]

it technically is by design

[slim cairn]

I really wanted to test it

But had no luck at all getting the gun

[frosty trellis]

It would be more interesting if all the legendary drops had a better method of obtainment like SHPC, but that's also like, how do you do the same without bloating shit

[slim cairn]

Was abit upsetting

[sand marlin]

Nycro is just the programmer, not the system's designer I think

[slim cairn]

Specially since ranger needs a few more flamethrowers imo

[frosty trellis]

Pretty sure the top 20% is by design regardless

The ones that passed through were probably the top 20%

That's how this has been going on for

Years now

[hollow verge]

its kind of. weird.

[slim cairn]

I think locking one of the flamethrowers to a 10% drop

[inland saddle]

Yeah I’m kind of just the guy who makes it now

[frosty trellis]

A static upkeep doesn't work bc of activity

[slim cairn]

Isnt very cash money

[inland saddle]

But this could be something that’s brought up with the team

[hollow verge]

again im not even one of the people who didnt get approval

i just dont think it was fair to the ppl who got over 100

[frosty trellis]

Vote activity flucuates with activity with calamity so that is why the top 20% thing was chosen and not a flat number

[errant wren]

make it 21%

[slim cairn]

Omg its John nycro

[distant gyro]

im fine with this since blood boiler is also right there

[novel belfry]

Wait what the heck k

[inland saddle]

Changing how suggestions are passed would not be difficult for me to do, but I have been so busy with irl stuff for the past long while that the extent of the contributions I’m able to make to the team is basically just maintaining the bots

[misty lichen]

you know it hurts way more when the two that actually got in over those were suggesting about the exact same thing, and should’ve also been bug reports

[sand marlin]

Yeah, both are great

[hollow verge]

it would be cool

[violet zephyr]

Regardless, Bot is currently dead.

[sand marlin]

Is it?

[inland saddle]

Is it?

[median scaffold]

Please, if that's possible, do it

[novel belfry]

those 100+ votes weren’t in the top 20%?

[frosty trellis]

The top 20% were 110+

[sand marlin]

Those suggestions got the mark a good while ago, not literally today. In fact the more recent ones did get notifications earlier

[novel belfry]

wait, I’m confused

[sand marlin]

Like these

I just notified the old ones

These ones are recent

[inland saddle]

These are the stats for this week

[novel belfry]

so how are the “20%” determined

[hollow verge]

thats the problem yeah. only 3 got in bc they happened to get 110+

[median scaffold]

[inland saddle]

I will forward the concerns to the dev team to see about a potential system change

[median scaffold]

That's quite punishing, if that's the right word here

[hollow verge]

jeez

[slim cairn]

True, it was still upsetting tho since i couldnt get to drop at all

[median scaffold]

Which one of them is?

I forgot

[sand marlin]

You could bunch up some bags and then open them with as much luck as you can get

[slim cairn]

True

But yeah its not a game ruining thing

Just a bit sad

[misty lichen]

boss drops don’t scale with luck though?

[sand marlin]

Mmm not sure

[violet zephyr]

They don't.

(Bottom line)

[sand marlin]

I know about that, I've read the wiki

Hmm I guess I didn't consider the attached reference there, let me check that to truly make sure

That's... not what that is saying

Please read it carefully again

Okay I'm gonna walk out, I don't have the right mind rn lmao

Brain's smooshed

[hollow verge]

gn

[slim cairn]

I do hope we get a shadowspec flamethrower one day tho

[violet zephyr]

Obviously, this doesn't apply to Classic mode, but you were specifically talking about stockpiling boss bags, then obtaining luck.

[sand marlin]

I'm not gonna be going to sleep it's just my focus is all over the place but yeah

[slim cairn]

Or a demonshade one once yharim gets added

[sand marlin]

For context, I was trying out a mod called "Max Luck" which I thought only added luck, not change how luck works
So either this mod I was using changes luck or tMod changes luck. I wanna ask if anyone can check whether or not tMod does that

[median scaffold]

If a dev will do it, ig

Shade wants a scythe, from I recall, so we won't be seeing shadowspec flamethrower in the next update

[misty lichen]

how original

[median scaffold]

What other shadowspec scythes are there, tbf?

[violet zephyr]

Nanoblack Reaper.

[misty lichen]

50% of rogue shadowspec weapons are scythes!

[median scaffold]

Make one for summoner, smh

[distant gyro]

yeah 1/2

[violet zephyr]

Hear me out...

[slim cairn]

0% of ranged shadowspec are flamethrower

[violet zephyr]

A Melee class Scythe.

[misty lichen]

it would be 66% of them when that item is added

[violet zephyr]

Revolutionary, I know.

[median scaffold]

And non of the other 4 class has a scyth, smh

[distant gyro]

unfortunately someone pulled up with the magic class scythe

[golden sonnet]

Death sickle:

[violet zephyr]

We just need a Ranger and Summoner scythe now.

[sand marlin]

Perfect timing Raesh, could you check tMod source for this?

[golden sonnet]

Uh, what am I checking?

[violet zephyr]

Luck and Grab Bags.

[sand marlin]

See if tMod changes anything about Luck

[sand marlin]

Mainly this yeah

[fossil finch]

tmod does nto change how luck works

its just that max luck was like, meme dream speedrun mod originally so it does all that extra ufnny stuff

[glass arch]

dark harvest is your summoner scythe

[sand marlin]

Sigh

[violet zephyr]

Crazy.

I forgot whips existed.

[sand marlin]

Can't expect random mods to be normal I guess

[fossil finch]

tha tmay have been a dfferent mod tbh but

yeah tmod doesnt change luck

it has been

4 years

it'd have been found and reverted by now

[median scaffold]

That doesn't work like a scythe, tho

[sand marlin]

I mean, tMod does other things so I thought there'd be that possibility but yeah

[median scaffold]

[fossil finch]

tmod doesnt change any vanilla behavior

[misty lichen]

IT REAPS

[fossil finch]

there have been bugs like the armor pen thing

[median scaffold]

YESSS

[fossil finch]

and oversights like the melee speed api changes defaulting to non vanilla behavior for items

[golden sonnet]

wait so I am checking something or...

[violet zephyr]

What about clockwork style weapons? They changed that.

[fossil finch]

not functionally to our knowledge

[sand marlin]

Ok don't bother with tMod I'll just send you the mod link

[golden sonnet]

yes with functionality

[fossil finch]

the point is that in game behavior doesn't change

[golden sonnet]

it does

[violet zephyr]

Was it this mod?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2565505925

[sand marlin]

Yeah

[fossil finch]

doesn't matter if they redo a system like they have

[median scaffold]

Ye

[golden sonnet]

clockwork weapons would fire more or less bullets depending on use time

which is not how vanilla works

[sand marlin]

It doesn't mention anywhere that it changes how luck works so that's annoying but again, random mods.

[fossil finch]

would? so its fixed?

[violet zephyr]

Wasn't there a way to read a mod's code?

[fossil finch]

you can just extract it

[sand marlin]

If it's hidden, you can use Mod Extractor mod to extract that as well

I think

[fossil finch]

yea

[median scaffold]

I love extracting mod code from mods I shouldn't be extracting

[fossil finch]

we have a tool downloaded mainly for non code assets

[sand marlin]

It doesn't work for me so I just use the extractor mod

[golden sonnet]

but depending on what you are asking, boss drops do scale with luck, except for when they don't

for example, queen slime drops all scale with luck, except the hook

[sand marlin]

Well here's a question

[golden sonnet]

King slime drops all scale with luck except the hook, and you can only get slime gun if hook fails, etc

[sand marlin]

Does that mean treasure bags prevent the usually affected items from being impacted by luck? Like if you were to go classic instead and the same items dropped, would those be affected?

[golden sonnet]

As far as I can tell from the code, bags do not affect things at all, they take the exact same code and group them together

so if an item is affected by luck in classic, it is in expert+ too

[sleek turret]

shouldn't? You must!

provided you abide the rules of not copying code from other mod and other rules

[sand marlin]

Oh, so the wiki is either wrong or very misleading about this. While this may still be true, this means it doesn't mention how it's supposed to interact with some of them. So regular boss drops are affected by luck?

[violet zephyr]

So the Vanilla wiki is incorrect in how Grab Bags are never affected by luck?

[sand marlin]

I never would've thought the dream mod would come in handy at a time like this ngl, my expression turned from disappointment to fascination

[golden sonnet]

this is oyster, as you can see each rule is not scaling with luck

While this is queen slime, as you can see the only not luck scaling drop is the hookhttps://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/850151425358561333/1284570388088623115/image.png?ex=66e71ce6&is=66e5cb66&hm=39de0a8aa62e0bedba97ed2564b8fa4439d55d38eb62c1560d263784d773bfc8&

nothing inherent to ItemDropRule would make it not scale with luck either

so maybe I am wrong, but I am fairly confident that boss bags scale with luck with exceptions for a few items

[glass arch]

dont believe so

i remember testing thorium clockwork weapons and they got fucked with attack speed

[violet zephyr]

The exceptions are already detailed in a list just a few lines above the Grab Bag line.

[glass arch]

and that was only a couple months ago

[violet zephyr]

Do you mind checking if the other Grab Bags (Herb Bag, Can of Worms, Goodie Bag, Present, Golden Lock Box and Obsidian Lock Box) are affected by Luck?

And Crates, too.

[golden sonnet]

Crate drop rules make me want to die reading them, but I will check yeah

[violet zephyr]

Thank you.

[golden sonnet]

LMAO

[violet zephyr]

I shudder to think what this is.

[golden sonnet]

Herb bag: Should scale with luck but not 100% sure
Can O Worm: Scales with luck
Goodie Bag: No luck scaling
Present: No luck scaling
All crates and lock boxes: No luck scaling

worth noting is the wiki does properly state bosses scale with luck, and even has a list of exceptions

this is 100% accurate ^

it's just the wording of this is a little vague as boss bags may be considerd grab bags

[idle dagger]

Did those stats for passed suggestions say 108 minimum and that my suggestion was 107 at the time

That’s
Lmao

[violet zephyr]

No reason not to consider them Grab Bags, they function the same (right click to open) and the wiki puts Boss Bags in the Grab Bags page.

[sand marlin]

It should add a short note at the end mentioning that Treasure Bags are an exception

[golden sonnet]

I agree, although the wiki does properly state bosses do scale with it a few lines above, that line could still serve to be a lot more clear as boss bags are grab bags

[violet zephyr]

Well clearly it is not just Treasure Bags.

Can O' Worms and Herb Bags (probably) get affected, too.

I think the line should just be rewritten entirely.

[sand marlin]

Actually yeah that's true

[idle dagger]

If I had to guess from the stats, as there were 14 suggestions, it would mean the top 20% of 14, or 2.8 (rounded to 3) suggestions, which were the ones with 110+
At a glance I was surprised only 3 passed, but from a mathematical standpoint it is correct

As Nycro said, they will pass onto concerns with the dev team so we’ll see what that’ll result in

[novel belfry]

okay maybe im just thinking there's more suggestions in this batch than there actually is

[median scaffold]

There were 8 suggestion from today

(11, actually, but 3 of them were exclamation marked)

[novel belfry]

well i suppose at least my sugg is probably getting sent to the devs

(the one that asks for the old duke bestiary entry to get rewritten)

[median scaffold]

Good for you, but I'll cry a little bit if my suggestion will be ignored

[novel belfry]

sadly...

[idle dagger]

Yeah the old Duke one should be getting sent next Friday

[hollow verge]

i still cant believe the shark has arms and i just never knew

[wide river]

I'm fairly certain this is planned, no?

[echo leaf]

Oh, is it? Great!

[hollow shell]

Replacing the post-DoG mats in Elysian's recipe with Ruinous Souls seems like the obvious choice
Gotta kill both Prov and Polter for em then, plenty of time for Celestial to get spotlight after ML

and you get to use it for both DoG and Yharon
(and Old Duke)

The other option is making Seraph Tracers be post-Exos or post-SCal, or both
Particularly, putting it post-SCal would provide you with an Exos vs SCal movement choice
Exo Box or Seraph Tracers

[wide river]

Exhumed tracers

[harsh echo]

Real

[hollow shell]

(they'd have to become something like "Lucifer Tracers" if that happens
fallen angel)

[fossil finch]

more confirmations of christianism in calamity

try all you want

christ is canon

[violet zephyr]

Disallows all forms of flight in exchange for extreme running speed and jump boost.

[harsh echo]

ah yes

true exos rungod

[violet zephyr]

Have fun doing Ares Blender or Thanatos T Hanos Beam without wings.

[hollow shell]

You have infinite flight time but the longer you spend in the air, a random chance for you to get smited by God for your hubris keeps increasing

Damocles de la Isaac

[fossil finch]

thatd be awesome actually

[wide river]

I actually kinda like that concept

[hollow shell]

Everybody would hate it but it would be funny

[harsh echo]

depends on what smited means

[hollow shell]

I was thinking you take like 500 damage
but I guess if it's just, your wing time is immediately expended and you start falling,
then you'd be able to play around it more

[violet zephyr]

You are unable to jump for 5 seconds, and unable to fly for 15.

[harsh echo]

[violet zephyr]

I should be a game designer, I make only the best of choices.

[harsh echo]

step away from the kitchen

[violet zephyr]

I am sorry.

[hollow shell]

Okay you know what? Better yet:
God's Wrath projectiles rain from the sky around you, dropping at increasing frequent rates the longer you spend in the air,
and if you touch them you stop flying (and probably also take damage)

That's more exhume-like, spawning shit that hurts you.

[harsh echo]

Oooo

[hollow shell]

So as long as you get good and dodge two bullet hells simultaneously, you get infinite flight.

[harsh echo]

this sounds fun

[hollow shell]

iunno why I'm saying any of this in sugg-disc

[wide river]

Some nohitter out there would do shroomed Scal with this theoretical, I can feel it

[fossil finch]

theyre moving the player hurts rover

cant design anymore , because of lame

[harsh echo]

[hollow shell]

comprehensible sentences.

[harsh echo]

what player hurts

[wide river]

(Two of the exhumes got their player-hurting abilities removed in the next update)

311 - Gruesome Eminence and Rancor can no longer hurt you. - Done ✅

[harsh echo]

💀

[hollow shell]

👈 this one :(

[violet zephyr]

(Probably because they didn't matter anyway)

[harsh echo]

[hollow shell]

SAD

[fossil finch]

rancor sure but gruesomes first stages literally play off the fact the ghost targets you

[harsh echo]

Damn, it was an interesting gimick though

[violet zephyr]

Gruesome Eminence pretty much never reached the player, and Rancor only worked on solid tiles, which platforms are not.

[harsh echo]

Could have just tweaked eminence a bit

[violet zephyr]

It doesn't

It just moves randomly near the cursor.

[hollow shell]

Double down on the hurting shit, that's what makes the weapons interesting

Make Rancor burn every platform it passes through

[violet zephyr]

The showcase video in the wiki even shows how it doesn't even get near the player, despite how close the cursor is.

[harsh echo]

Lmao

[hollow shell]

(as in, spawn the hurty magma stuff, not break the tiles)

[violet zephyr]

Reminder that your cursor will be nearly double the distance to hit Artemis and Apollo.

[wide river]

Rancor deletes water tiles in reference to burning sea being used to make it specifically to screw over the 2 people who actually use water arenas

[fossil finch]

rancor bein a platform denier would actually be extremely interesting? if only exo mechs movement wasnt That Thing

[harsh echo]

pair this reworked rancor with the lucifer wings

[fossil finch]

yeah precisely

[violet zephyr]

I have literally only seen Rancor's self damage ability once, and I did it on myself, on purpose, to test said self damage.

Should show how little it impacted.

[fossil finch]

itd pair well with infinite flight which calamity removes because uhm erm uhm

[hollow shell]

There are times where I wish I had my own 'random bullshit' mod so that I could add ideas like these

[fossil finch]

(To this day we really dont understand it, it isn't actually broken or anything, if it was you'd be having insane meta strats about railing your world to replenish flight time but that doesn't really trivialize anything because everything already accounts for flight without really taking specific flight time into account)

we can think right away of two things it'd make easier which is following providence down to hit her and dodging yharon but

not really to an extent they'd be trivialized or anything

[novel belfry]

i know that the one actually massively endgame-affecting item WoTG drops (and im not counting the Noxus Sprayer, nor the Good Apples) is those divine wings nameless drops. They apparently have Infinite Flight

but then again. you have to fight nameless to get that

[fossil finch]

if we remember correctly both nameless and avatar give you infinite flight anyways

[novel belfry]

i mean yeah

[fossil finch]

at least avatar surely does

[hollow shell]

I don't know if Nameless does? Then again I haven't fought him (yet)

... I know Astrageldon does.

[fossil finch]

(and providence's movement code should Definitely be changed because it fucking sucks)

[glass arch]

@willow widget

[willow widget]

my ass is NOT doing shroomed scal.

[glass arch]

thats what they all say

[hollow shell]

😔

[harsh echo]

skeletron prime ahh

[fossil finch]

its actually ice queen

[hollow shell]

Ice Qu- yeah

[willow widget]

release malice exo mechs call for me...

[glass arch]

yeah this is what i mean

[hollow shell]

Even down to the pausing to spawn randomized radial projectiles
(just without the sprite spin)

I still like Prov tho

[fossil finch]

prov is fine

her movement is just poopy

[glass arch]

you obviously hate yourself enough to do a release malice scal nohit, shroomed is just slightly worse

[fossil finch]

having to chase down the boss to attack it like that really shouldnt

be gameplay

we think

its just not great

[harsh echo]

oh lmao they're really similar

[fossil finch]

its not just similarity it was reused

[harsh echo]

[hollow shell]

Twas the original AI basis, rather.

Iterated on and tweaked over the course of 7ish years

[misty lichen]

you don’t have to chase down the boss if you aren’t running in one direction the entire fight

[fossil finch]

you still have to though

unless your plan is to just attack the half a second shes's on the middle of your screen

like we run side to side to fight her and that is still Chasing Her

Byeah we just aren't fan of provi's movement and hope it'll get improved one day

[drifting chasm]

Why do all sky aerlite items need a skymill, but the skyline wings are the only one that needs an anvil

Should that be changed or is it intentional

[idle dagger]

That is odd

[golden sonnet]

all wings use an anvil is why

[idle dagger]

ah

[misty lichen]

OH BUT TARRAGON WINGS NEED AN ANCIENT MANIPULATOR

and all lunar wings but ignore that

“all wings use an anvil” is not a rule

[golden sonnet]

Why they do that

[harsh echo]

maybe cause not all wings use an anvil

[golden sonnet]

Ok but like, they are the exception and are weird

[harsh echo]

eh fair

is there dev comment?

[golden sonnet]

I think it's been mentioned before, I'll see if I can find it

Hmmm, what I was thinking of was this exact suggestion, but made like a year ago

That no one commented on but me and I said the same thing

So I don't see why it wouldn't be a valid suggestion

[misty lichen]

lunar wings also don’t

this has nothing to do with the fact they are wings

accessories that aren’t tinkers just use anvil/mythril anvil or ancient manipulator if it’s at that tier, then cosmic anvil if it’s at that tier

just like everything else

wings aren’t special

and never have been

[hollow verge]

i mean tbf the ancient manipulator is basically the post-cultist anvil. theres not rly much that takes the mythril anvil at that stage.

but thats a nitpick, not me opposing you

[golden sonnet]

Ok but when there is a small enough sample size, literally the only outlier is lunar wings and tarragon

[misty lichen]

again, this applies to all accessories

i could say all shields have to be crafted at an anvil, and the absorber is an outlier that MUST be changed

[golden sonnet]

Absorber isn't a shield

[misty lichen]

you get the point

all items are crafted in the same ways, wings arent specifically meant to all use anvils that doesnt even make sense

banging the souls of flight into lifeless feathers with my iron hammer

[drowsy plank]

im pretty sure those tracers are going to be retired to post-Distortion Trio or one of them at least

[echo leaf]

Great!

[fossil finch]

Can we not do this please

🥺

[drowsy plank]

bleh

right

new rules

technically not against the rules to ask this but

they're not going to do this

[hollow shell]

@manic cloud You mean rogue

[manic cloud]

yeah, my b

[hollow shell]

And yeah this is uhhh this is very unlikely
Calamity doesn't change the damage type of any vanilla weps afaik

[fossil finch]

its just like erm calamity shouldn't step over vanilla's toes just because it chose to keep the corpse of thrower around and mangle it into rogue

[drowsy plank]

hey i mean
ozz said it was possible but this also isn't going to happen because it was asked before and it didn't happen

and i dont think anything has changed on this front

[fossil finch]

Well obviously it is possible its just, m

[drowsy plank]

i moreso meant calamity changing vanilla weapon damage types

it isn't something ozz is opposed to, hence it being absent from the revised suggestion rules

but yeah this

isn't going to happen

[manic cloud]

just seemed like it would fit well, I'm doing my first rouge playthrough and only thought of it when i saw that the shuriken was ranged. can definitely see the logic behind not wanting to mess with the damage type of a vanilla weapon

[drowsy plank]

honestly idk why there aren't just rogue upgrades to throwing knives and shruikens tbqh it isn't even the first time rogue would've done something like this

looking at you spiky balls

[fossil finch]

Well, there technically are

since they're just thrown piercing projectile

[drowsy plank]

i meant instead of changing a vanilla item just

[frail fox]

Bouncy shurikens please

[drowsy plank]

you joke but literally

[misty lichen]

the real issue is just rogue not making any effort to present its content to the player at all in the earlygame

[drowsy plank]

why not

[misty lichen]

no chest items, just happen to find that your weapons are made out of specifically clay or cactus or cobweb

[drowsy plank]

well i mean

actually idk does that count as devplans.jpeg

[frail fox]

Storm Javelin please come

[drowsy plank]

ok but both of you are literally in tiercord you Know The Situation

[frail fox]

Well yeah

But it’s only 1 thing

[hollow verge]

rogue is a class

[drowsy plank]

dont disagree but it's something at least

[frail fox]

Rogue still needs like 2-3 more chest things, a drop or 2, and something from fishing pre-boss

[drowsy plank]

in general i feel like calamity fails to adequately use chests for its loot but ive been hearing mumbling that that might be changed in the next update

[misty lichen]

i’ll say it again and completely unironically, i want 4 weapons for each metal bar

[novel belfry]

Ive been doing a rogue infernum playthrough (as a callback to me using rogue in my gfb playthrough for some reason), and i cheesed infernum wof because shinobi blade's stealth strike is insane

[manic cloud]

on the other hand the throwing items being turned to ranged just always seemed to me like they were stuck there since they had no better type to fit in stylistically. (personally i feel they would have fit better in the melee class to help fill in the lack of fast mid-long range weapons pre-boss)
since calamity has a class built around and expanding the concept of what throwing used to be, seems like it would be perfect for them to be adopted into the rouge class. even the existing upgrades added by calamity support this logic, the spikey ball upgrades in particular make it seem a bit jarring.

[drowsy plank]

well i think it makes more sense to just follow spiky balls at this point

[hollow verge]

realest challenge is to make rogue not broken

[fossil finch]

melee has boomerangs we think it's cool ranger has the possibility of thrown items as a subtype of weapons it can get

[drowsy plank]

like i said the easiest, vanilla-untouched way to do this is to just make preBoss rogue upgrades to throwing knives and shurikens

[novel belfry]

imo i think ninja and the crystal assassin should just be turned into rogue armors, but im 100% sure ya'll have heard that many times

[misty lichen]

(it does)

(gilded knife needs throwing knifes and that proves that’s not a solution)

[frail fox]

It’s 2/5 of the way there so sure, as long as it’s not like a weapon for each wood type

The hardmode ore weapons have rogue things so yeah

[drowsy plank]

huh lol

[fossil finch]

it opens up possibilities of weapon explorations that nobody wants to do because uuuuuuu Thrower

[drowsy plank]

shuirkens are still untouched but i didnt even know gilded needed throwing knives now

i only remembered monstrous knives

funny

[misty lichen]

it always did

and as you can guess, this makes them harder to access because if you were playing rogue, you wouldn’t have 250 copies of a ranger weapon

[drowsy plank]

poisoned knives are a Funny too

those Sure Exist

[fossil finch]

? You would they're free on chests

And are buyable and drop from pots

if people are doing weird class ultra puritanism where they're throwing away every weapon that isn't of their class even early game that's on them we think

[hollow verge]

i keep chests full of all the weapons i pick up coz calamity has some crazy crafting trees

[drowsy plank]

imma be honest why did they even make all the consumable weapons ranged

did they think ranger was somehow lacking in options

[fossil finch]

because they fit ranger

And it meant ranger could get an early armor yay!!

[manic cloud]

the spiky balls and the throwing and poisonous throwing knifes are still ranged while clear upgrades/ variants are throwing. the sticky and bouncy spiky balls for example. seems logically inconsistent, the fix would be not too bad, and i don't think it would step on toes any more than the rouge class itself

[fossil finch]

It also gives ranger variety that can be expanded upon

[drowsy plank]

you could still make fossil ranger while making some of the thrower weapons a different class idk

[fossil finch]

Ranger doesn't Need more options but it definitely could use variety and making the thrower content ranger gives it exactly that

[hollow verge]

i do wish cal would just change the throwables that were made ranger into rogue tbh, i dont think it would kill calamity to touch vanilla, but i understand its just not the cal vision

[frail fox]

Tbf it’s not like mage, summoner, or melee make more sense

[hollow verge]

sad!

[drowsy plank]

ranger already has plenty of variety and none of the weapons that were formerly thrower go anywhere because they didn't go anywhere when they were thrower either

[glass arch]

throwing knife clones are certainly a Thing

[glass arch]

melee has several mage has 1 ranged has Almost Every Single Craftable One

[frail fox]

Can’t wait for rogue to stop having consumables

[fossil finch]

Sure but they can correct that now that its not five unnecessary class Scope Creep

[drowsy plank]

well yeah that's the point none of them are good, so you might as well, idk give some ranged options to melee or something. bombs still work as ranged, but like. idk there's so much you could've done here

[manic cloud]

cause you don't hit them with them while you are holding them, you throw them from range, imo fits better in vanilla as melee both logically and for progression

[fossil finch]

is there

they just make sense for ranger that's it

its not really that deep

[idle dagger]

being brutally honest since i've never played rogue I didn't even know that's where you get your firs rogue weapons LMAO

[drowsy plank]

but it's BORING and ranger already HAS so many good preBoss weapons

bleh

[glass arch]

you say that and then both mage and melee have weapons that function Exactly The Same

[drowsy plank]

it's whatever

[fossil finch]

giving them to melee doesn't do anything different

[hollow verge]

i played rogue and it was definitely Not apparent

[wide river]

Are we seriously arguing class consistency for the 700th time regarding the knives

[fossil finch]

Yeah? And we dislike the lack of early prehardmode mage weapon variety

[hollow verge]

yes

[fossil finch]

melee's just natural because you're not going to make swords act differently because that's just dumb

[drowsy plank]

idk melee has like starfury and esword i guess. and then maybe blood butcher and night's bane if you wanna really do shit up in bosses faces
talking about in vanilla fyi because god knows melee has enough options in calamity lmao

[hollow verge]

welcome to suggestions-discussion /silly

if theres 1 thing we love doing, it's having the same topics come up repeatedly. it's enrichment for us

[fossil finch]

both ranger and melee have a bunch of early options in vanilla

[glass arch]

usestyle1 🥹

[hollow verge]

preboss summoner and rogue is rough

[manic cloud]

I'd have to argue with that, while range has a bunch of really nice ranged(go figure) and piercing options at that stage, melee class has just a small handful, even less that are viable. either a boomerang or the blade of grass pretty much.

[fossil finch]

and even so like wdk we don't think its very important because sticking to one weapon type early is dumb and not the intention vanilla has in mind

[drowsy plank]

blade of grass is technically post-Eye for both vanilla and cal in terms of balance

[hollow verge]

preboss melee:

[drowsy plank]

tbf i was mentioning vanilla again

[manic cloud]

fast piercing without having to wait for your weapon to come back, and not having to go through the jungle pre-boss would be sweet

[fossil finch]

preboss melee has a secret hidden weapon and its called the Trident

[drowsy plank]

this was just a hypothetical "huh that's a weird thing for vanilla to do"

actually rotted fork is pretty good too i forgot about that

[manic cloud]

sorry for bringing things a tad off topic

[hollow verge]

ball o' hurt spinny

[fossil finch]

u have trident's too

[hollow verge]

rotted fork aint bad

i dont like it but its not a bad weapon, just not for me

[fossil finch]

Spear, trident, fork, and shocker guy from desert are all medium range melee piercing options that are easy to get and very useful

[hollow verge]

shocker guy....

[manic cloud]

even the ball of hurt is technically a sequence brake, just one one the ones that became super mainstream

[glass arch]

#suggestions-discussion never change
or, preferably, do

[hollow verge]

[fossil finch]

that's not a sequence break no

we mean sure they aren't necessarily balanced for preboss early game

But you also aren't going out of developer intent

[glass arch]

no it is its intended to be obtained post eoc

[fossil finch]

They know you're going to be getting that stuff earliee

[hollow verge]

? no that's not. definitely not any more than underground jungle.

[hollow verge]

in vanilla or calamity?

because in cal it is 100% not a sequence break

[glass arch]

vanilla

[hollow verge]

oh

yeah idk abt vanilla

[fossil finch]

Its just balanced for later because that way it keeps it's relevance

Being balanced for x doesn't mean you're sequence breaking

[manic cloud]

orb and heart item drops are ment to be post boss, made available by purification powder from the dryad. bombs weren't the intended methode for getting those

[fossil finch]

Read this

[fossil finch]

Except they are?

They literally are an intended method

[hollow verge]

doesnt demoman literally have dialogue about using bombs to break ebonstone..

[fossil finch]

yes

Again, they're not balanced for later because getting them before is a crime or not the intent of the developer

They're balanced for later so they're strong if you get them early on and keep being relevant for a while

[glass arch]

the original intent was for shadow orbs to only be broken post eoc

[fossil finch]

and that intent changed intentionally when they made bombs blow ebonstone and crim stone up

terraria has been designed over a decade and intents change

More important to look at what actually is in game than at what used to be

[manic cloud]

the intended vanilla progression is to gain basic gear from surface chests, beat KS, gather cave loot to fight the eye. then use the purification powder from the dryad tom reach the hearts/orbs to unlock the gear they drop as a final powerup before fighting the evil boss. that's why you craft meatball from brain drops but get the ball o hurt from the orb, they are meant to be right next to each other in progression. obviously no one does it that way since bombs give early access and they would be underpowered at that point. still technically a sequence break tho

[fossil finch]

vanilla doesn't have a set intended progression

it surely has tiers! And the way guide dialogue unlocks itself implies a progression

But like

there's nothing actually dictating QB is post evils pre skeletron

[drowsy plank]

i mean it kinda does, there are points in progression stuff is balanced to be obtained

like the holiday moons being post-Golem and stuff

[idle dagger]

They're supposed to be post-Golem?

[drowsy plank]

yeah

[glass arch]

yes

[fossil finch]

Always have been

[manic cloud]

it is defo and open path, that's the beauty of it but there is an intended general path that was in mind

[idle dagger]

Huh

[glass arch]

hellstone is intended to be post skeletron

[drowsy plank]

yeah i mean like i was saying there is an "intended" progression because that is how they balance the game

[idle dagger]

That much I do recall

[glass arch]

why? Vanilla™️

[drowsy plank]

just because it's a sandbox doesn't mean you can say there isn't, because there is, but it's just lax

[fossil finch]

Eitherway, to go back to our original point, melee does have piercing options don't ignore them also clsss puritanism early game is lame and if people do it that's their choice

[fossil finch]

its weird actually

Nobody knows

vanilla wiki isn't sure neither is cal wiki

No developer's ever said anything

[drowsy plank]

i mean

[fossil finch]

they're definitely better than dungeon stuff though

[drowsy plank]

i wonder if that's in that terraria forum thread

[idle dagger]

I feel like it's definitely meant to be "hey here's the shadow key from the dungeon, you should go explore where these are now!"

[novel belfry]

it should be noted that vanilla pre hm is rather open

[drowsy plank]

where i found the moons post-golem comment

and betsy post-pillars

[novel belfry]

you theoretically only need to kill skeletron (to let lunatic cultist spawn) and wof

[idle dagger]

is killing skelly even mandatory anymore

[drowsy plank]

yes

[fossil finch]

Yes

[novel belfry]

at least in vanilla

[fossil finch]

Its calamity that makes him not mandatory

[drowsy plank]

unlike calamity you still need to kill him to get cultists to show up, while cal has eidolon tab

[idle dagger]

Okay it's calamity that does that

got it

[novel belfry]

in calamity theres this snazzy eidolon tablet that lets you spawn cultist before golem

[fossil finch]

Vanilla's any% is skeletron, wof, mechs, plant, golem, cultist and ml

[novel belfry]

hilarious that skeletron in two forms needs to be killed

[idle dagger]

that's like most bosses so that makes enough sense

[drowsy plank]

it's funny how even with more bosses cal has about the same number, possibly less if you list the mechs individually as the max minimum run

[idle dagger]

actually maybe it's closer to half in vanilla rather than most

When ravager gets moved to post providence who becomes mandatory

[novel belfry]

wait what

[fossil finch]

depends on if he keeps the material drops

[idle dagger]

true

[fossil finch]

As you need life Alloy for codebreaker

[novel belfry]

ah i see

[drowsy plank]

man i wish i had the any% diagram on hand

[idle dagger]

ravager unlocks both ectoplasm and the cores

hold on i probably have it

[glass arch]

any% or low%

[fossil finch]

Low%

[drowsy plank]

ah well low% yeah

because any% just means

any percent of the game done

lo

prolly faster to just kill some random shit than do a low% run

[drowsy plank]

finally

the one i have is so oudated

[fossil finch]

If rav loses life alloy AND cores you now need cryogen and plantera

Lovely!

[drowsy plank]

wait

[idle dagger]

why cryo

[fossil finch]

Life alloy needs cryonic

[idle dagger]

iirc can't you shimmer scoria -> perrenial -> cryonic

[sleek turret]

yea the cryo ore bar

[idle dagger]

i could entirely be wrong tho

[fossil finch]

maybe you can who knows

[drowsy plank]

yes you can

in fact i think you can get all three just by shimmering down luminite

[fossil finch]

Then its just plantera

Wouldn't killing plant be better than killing rav then

[idle dagger]

cool

bruh

[fossil finch]

Oh no it wouldn't because

Skeletron

rav would still be the ectoplasm guy

[glass arch]

cryonic isnt in the shimmer chain yea

[fossil finch]

Then if rav material drop dies its a +2 to low%

[drowsy plank]

huh

i guess i hallucinated it

[fossil finch]

You'd need plantera cryo and skeletron

[idle dagger]

Yeah it heavily depends on if ravagers keeps it all then

[drowsy plank]

i swore there was a suggestion or change about letting phantoplasm shimmer into ectoplasm

[idle dagger]

also depends if ravager is summoned the same way

[fossil finch]

That'd still need skeletron since

[idle dagger]

or if his summon would require whatever uelibloom becomes
or providence's drop

[fossil finch]

The caverns phantoplasm guys are deqd

[drowsy plank]

necroplasm

whatever

[fossil finch]

You can already shimmer auric for it so,

Wouldn't see why that'd change

[drowsy plank]

overloaded soldier isn't dead yet

[idle dagger]

true

[fossil finch]

he's definitely going to die

[drowsy plank]

i don't see anything in changelogs unless i am blind

probably yeah

[fossil finch]

overloaded soldier holds a low% boss on his shoulders (if the shimmer is added)

Who'd know

[drowsy plank]

erm uh
let calamitas clone unlock ectoplasm

[idle dagger]

actually wait

to summon yharon you'd need life alloy first

[fossil finch]

We're not doing this again

[fossil finch]

lol

also why not do deus ml instead of LC ml

You'd have astral bars

[drowsy plank]

deus ml?? how are you getting the manipulator

[sleek turret]

ancient manipulator?

[novel belfry]

I wonder if Permafrost should have his own earlier version of the Enchantment System used by his pupil

[fossil finch]

right

[idle dagger]

can't you not summon moonlord unless you do the pillars or

[fossil finch]

Manipulator

Lol

[drowsy plank]

i dunno how you'd get the fragments without pillars or deus, and the tablet still takes ancient manipulator so

@ dire

[fossil finch]

Did you know that wotg low% requires cryogen

[idle dagger]

i genuinely didn't even realize deus drops the fragments

[drowsy plank]

yeah he does

also what

[idle dagger]

?? lmao?

[fossil finch]

next update

if as wotg low we understand low% nameless

[fleet grotto]

I don't think there's any item other than weapons that only cryogen unlocks..?

[fossil finch]

Currently low nameless is like whatever its just current cal low with noxus' we think

but avatar will need a few more things

[drowsy plank]

i guess if wotg puts something in perma's inventory lol

[fleet grotto]

I guess so

[drowsy plank]

that would be funny

[fossil finch]

not in perma's inventory exactly

[fleet grotto]

Idk, don't use it

[fossil finch]

but you'll need him, yes

[drowsy plank]

ah yes
you need to catch him in a bug net like fargos and throw him into lava

just like guide

[fossil finch]

there's another boss outside of cryo actually

so low% wotg adds 4 bosses including avatar and nameless

That's very funny

, wait actually its five

Wow

[drowsy plank]

what the fuck is going on in wotg

[fossil finch]

story! Plot! Progression!

[idle dagger]

Upon being moved to post providence

If Ravager keeps the core and alloy drops: no low% change

If ravager loses the alloys but keeps cores: just Cryogen becomes mandatory

If ravager loses the cores but keeps the alloys: Skeleton, Plantera become mandatory, and you can choose between ravager or cryogen for cryonic

If ravager loses both: Cryogen, Skeletron, Plantera become mandatory, but Ravager is…well, entirely unnecessary now

All assuming Ravager does not require any materials you cannot get normally on a low% run

[drowsy plank]

well provi isn't part of low% so

[fossil finch]

Hold on everyone

It might be 6

[drowsy plank]

also nothing that locks rav behind provi or polter or something

[fossil finch]

its not decided yet but it might be 6

[idle dagger]

Yeah it entirely depends on if Ravager will now require providence dead

honestly the fact that providence isn’t mandatory is

Hilarious

and really strange

[fleet grotto]

Providence being required would be quite bad for low% :(

That's two bosses

[idle dagger]

She feels like a boss that definitely is meant to be faced

[fossil finch]

wait are guardians required for provi

[idle dagger]

iirc no

[fleet grotto]

Yes

[fossil finch]

We thought unholy core had a recipe

[fleet grotto]

They drop her item

Oh?

[idle dagger]

I think you can also just craft it

Oh nvm I’m not seeing a recipe

[fossil finch]

No it doesn't

then its 7 guys

Tentatively 7 extra bosses required for nameless low%

[sleek turret]

AWESOME

[drowsy plank]

skill solution

[fossil finch]

You still needed to kill guards for this

[idle dagger]

Ah okay

[fossil finch]

Anyways fucking Awesome?

[fleet grotto]

ravager is so huge

singlehandedly makes a whole bunch of bosses unecessary

[fossil finch]

only 3

Not that many

And that could easily drop to like, 0

[drowsy plank]

shimmer did more for low% than rav ever did

[fossil finch]

If cryo is added to the shimmer cycle and necroplasm shimmer exists

[novel belfry]

i love how we're theorycrafting suggestions just to make low% runs even more low%

[idle dagger]

I’m surprised divine geodes aren’t used for like, any of the endgame summon things

[novel belfry]

thats the spirit lads

[fossil finch]

Those locks go to ueli

but crates drop auric and auric is shimmerable

[idle dagger]

Thank you fishing

So like
What happens when endothermic energy dies

Cause I hear it potentially was going to

[fossil finch]

dog still required for dist

[idle dagger]

I thought ceaseless was just the planned lock

[echo leaf]

If endothermic energy dies then would nightmare fuel die too?

[fleet grotto]

Isn't ascendent spirit essence also a required thing or am i crazy

[fossil finch]

Dog may still be the lock for it

[fossil finch]

Either one days other become dist material or both remain as diff dist materials

[idle dagger]

It might just be the actual names that die yeah

[fossil finch]

wdk if ase is needed itself but you need endothermic and they're probably just gonna carry that over to the dist material

[idle dagger]

I don’t think so from the chart

[fleet grotto]

Post dog events have always felt extremely weird to me

[fossil finch]

Eitherway you'd still need cosmilite for crafting

[idle dagger]

Oh right

The snick

Ancil*

Avail

[fossil finch]

Wdk if drae forge is also needed

[idle dagger]

Anvil

Considering the forge itself is post one of the final bosses atm

I would uh say no

[fossil finch]

Going to be necessary for yharim low% let's go

[idle dagger]

Might still not if you just need to waltz up to the aerie

[fleet grotto]

I think yharim's more just going to be post yharon

Also should we move the discussion elsewhere?

[idle dagger]

No from what I understand you will have to kill Scal and exos to challenge him
Also very good point oops

[fossil finch]

yharim will require scal and exos yes

[idle dagger]

I need to cook up another good suggestion soon

[grim tusk]

@manic cloud lack of reasoning, also pretty sure this falls under donts

[manic cloud]

alright, sorry i didn't see where in the don'ts stuff like that was specified. my intent was for the logical consistency

aside from the stated lack of reasoning, what fel under a don't, since i missed it i would prefer to know where my mystake was

[drowsy plank]

not explictly unless you try to shoehorn it under "re-add removed content"

since according to ozz's wording last i remember discussing this, reversion isn't completely banned, but should at least be a few months out bare minimum

plus the change from thrower isn't really something calamity had control of anyway

maybe "excessive work" bc of balancing them?

[grim tusk]

Also Cal has rogue not throwing

[drowsy plank]

and like stealth strikes

[crude geode]

isn't changing vanilla damage types still kind of iffy?

or is that rule out the window

[drowsy plank]

oh wait right i forgot rogue isn't considered throwing anymore

thank god for that

[novel belfry]

aw man, they're still discussing the possibility of changing (formerly) throwing items to rogue

[grim tusk]

internally it still sorta is but that will change due to better tmod systems and mod conflict fuckery

[drowsy plank]

the rule was removed because, as i remember ozz put it, calamity already fucks with vanilla weapons to such an extent, he doesnt really consider it a violation of cal's reach anymore

but also it's not going to happen anyway bc

like i said earlier this specific sugg has been shot down before lo

[novel belfry]

if it was up to me i would but i dont know the reason why changing vanilla damage types to rogue would be iffy

[crude geode]

what was the reasoning for shutting it down?

[novel belfry]

i think having suggestions that are rejected also be changed to include a developer-curated message explaining why they rejected it would be nice, but that is probably really difficult to pull off without probably completely overhauling the sugg bot

[wide river]

Something to note is that changing weapons to Rogue would either require new stealth strikes for each weapon, or have Rogue weapons that can't stealth strike

[novel belfry]

and that guy... has been quite the troublemaker

[drowsy plank]

would prolly be more work they dont want to do even if i agree

[novel belfry]

thats what im thinking

[drowsy plank]

but i dont blame them bc they're yknow

busy programming the mod

[novel belfry]

it would be NICE but it would take a lot of effort away from... the mod

yknow. the thing the caldevs are supposed to work on

[crude geode]

what? the caldevs aren't beholden to the whims of suggestors? /s

[manic cloud]

i better specified my argument and reasoning behind it, I also corrected my use of the word thrower where it should have been rogue. Could you let me know which don't I'm in violation of so i can correct it if possible, or otherwise avoid making the same mistake in the future.

[novel belfry]

i've made peace with that, mainly because this is about the best suggestion system i've seen, mainly because the devs actually show which suggs are going to be implemented, or even just which were liked by the team in general

they are absolutely not required, for instance to rewrite the Old Duke's bestiary entry despite me suggesting that.

I would, however, like that to happen, and this system can help that idea be... "formally" addressed to the devs

(this analogy is falling apart immediately)

[slim cairn]

Considering how much stuff they have planned itd probably take years before they could address it without taking away from another update

Because each of these weapons would need new stealth strikes

As they dont have any

[fossil finch]

adding like

10 stealth strikes

Wouldn't really be taking time away from anything

Balancing we guess

But like

We don't agree anyways so yeah sure

[slim cairn]

Balacing yeah, specially since rogue testing is still in phm iirc, or early hm, for the current best killtimes and such

[fossil finch]

Implodes violently

[frail fox]

It’s all done lol