suggestions-discussion

[errant wren]

yeah this just

doesn't matter enough

i think

[kindred fractal]

It's just my instinct to not make a luminite pick first, probably because you don't need one in vanilla

[errant wren]

not enough to warrant it to be minable with a picksaw

[kindred fractal]

But I see what you're saying

[golden sonnet]

You can always shimmer decraft or teleport into the planetoids

[errant wren]

i mean it is valid technically

[drowsy plank]

well ur playing modded and considering uelibloom and other later ores and pickaxes exist, not thinking you need a luminite pickaxe is a you issue lol

[errant wren]

just

yeah

[golden sonnet]

Tbh making luminite harder to mine could be fair

But making exodium easier doesn't make a ton of sense imo, especially not for this niche of an issue

[kindred fractal]

Make Luminite also require a Luminite pick?

[errant wren]

that would be more fair yeah

[errant wren]

that's why luminite is how it is iirc

[kindred fractal]

What do you mean?

[errant wren]

i think there was an issue where people placed it down before making a pickaxe that could break it

needing to fight moon lord again to get more

[kindred fractal]

That's easy to do with crimtane/demonite too...

[errant wren]

but like

[golden sonnet]

Ok but that's on them and they can shimmer decraft their stuff for a pick

[errant wren]

this has been in since 1.3 i think

[fossil finch]

Not really

They're bomb breakable and only require like, gold

[errant wren]

and evil ore is way earlier either way

anyways

i've had a lot of input today

so i'll leave y'all to it

[median scaffold]

It isn't

[kindred fractal]

Bottom line: my suggestion isn't that much of an issue in the first place?

[errant wren]

oh damn i was misinformed

[golden sonnet]

Yeah, luminite ore used all stats of dirt since implementation because it never spawns in the world

[median scaffold]

If I didn't mix up anything, luminite has the same durability as a dirt block

[median scaffold]

^

[golden sonnet]

The sounds and other things has since been changed, but it was literally the same code as dirt when implemented

[errant wren]

probably confused something i heard like 3 years ago then

sorry about that

[median scaffold]

Should we make the opposite suggestion about making luminite harder to mine?

[median scaffold]

Don't worry

[kindred fractal]

Or renaming exodium because it has nothing to do with exo anything

[errant wren]

no no

i deserve to be executed

[golden sonnet]

It doesn't necessarily have a strong reason to be done, but I think it would make sense for consistency

[median scaffold]

[median scaffold]

Okay, I have a lot of work to do this evening

[violet zephyr]

The "Exo" in Exodium and the "Exo" in Exo Prims and related items are different roots.

[harsh echo]

very true but it can cause confusion

[gaunt needle]

why are exo mechs are even called "exo"?

is it from "exotic"?

[slim cairn]

I personally disagree, i never thought about these two being related

[kindred fractal]

@lean sleet Did you not read how you're supposed to post suggestions first...?

Cause that's not the right format at all...

[drowsy plank]

@lean sleet yeah what he said; you need to format this correcty. just going to flag until you fix it since for some reason the bot isnt giving you a 🗜️

[lean sleet]

I thought I was here. That is my bad.

[drowsy plank]

fair

[echo leaf]

Yes

It refers to the Exotic Resonance which powers them

[median scaffold]

That sounds funny in russian for no reasons

[misty lichen]

are they even referred to as the exo mechs in game

[weary plaza]

well they are either referred to by their individual names or just as "machines".

[violet zephyr]

Yharim's item for the boss is "Exo Mechanical Trio", so yes.

[violet zephyr]

Yes.

[idle dagger]

What is the threshold for a suggestion to have a suggestion go through anyway

Saw some talk earlier about how suggestions don’t make much traction anymore and was curious about what amount is actually needed

If there is a real set amount anyway

[median scaffold]

If your suggestion is top 20% for the past 2 weeks, iirc

[wide river]

It's based off of a percentage system, yeah

[median scaffold]

And there's no set amount

[idle dagger]

A…percentage?

Top 20% of what, all suggestions of all time?

[violet zephyr]

Check pins, it explains it the best way possible.

[idle dagger]

Oh that makes sense

The pins always have everything

[median scaffold]

All suggestions of the past 2 weeks*

[idle dagger]

Gotcha

[glass arch]

if it was all time nothing would get through because of shit like the icicle arrow sugg

[median scaffold]

How many stars it has?

[violet zephyr]

Over 400.

[glass arch]

450 some

[golden sonnet]

Currently 420

(not even joking)

[glass arch]

oh huh i swore it was 450 some

[golden sonnet]

It's the funny number

[harsh echo]

wait rely

link?

[violet zephyr]

#suggestions-voting message

[harsh echo]

lmao

it's got my vote

[violet zephyr]

Why would you do this to us?

[harsh echo]

kidding XD

[distant gyro]

at least 50 people added a star into it after having the knowledge that it was the most starred suggestion

[violet zephyr]

Its simply peak.

[distant gyro]

the rich get richer

[echo leaf]

Deleted User#0000 wins AGAIN

[harsh echo]

can't believe they added capitalism in suggestions channel

[lucid marsh]

Dude I do not know how the star system works these days

[golden sonnet]

pins explain it

[lucid marsh]

It's complicated enough that I forget it

[glass arch]

i believe it takes all the suggestions in the period, sorts them from most to least stars, divides the number by 5 and takes that number of suggestions starting from the top of the list

not sure if it rounds up or down

[wide river]

Nycro posted this a while ago, looks like it rounds up
#suggestions-discussion message

[lucid marsh]

That means that suggestions get fucked over if all of them are good

[glass arch]

i mean

no

[lucid marsh]

Maybe I misunderstood

[glass arch]

not all of them are gonna get the exact same amount of stars youd be lucky to get even 2 with the same amount in 1 period

[lucid marsh]

But there are situations where a suggestion could get a reasonable number of stars and still not be sent in

No?

[wide river]

That is true, some suggestions don't make it due to losing out to other, more popular suggestions

[glass arch]

thats just the nature of this kinda stuff

[wide river]

Sometimes this is good, and other times it's run-of-the-mill furniture/vanity item suggestions that beat out suggestions that would create an actual impact in the mod

[lucid marsh]

That would not be the case if you simply made any suggestion with more than some number of stars get in

[glass arch]

they used to do that

[lucid marsh]

I know

And it was good

[glass arch]

they kept having to adjust it so roughly the top 20% got through

this is less work for basically the same result

[lucid marsh]

You could make the number of stars required be automatically set to something like 10% above the monthly average

That way it's at least more reliable because there's more data

[fossil finch]

Have fun getting rejected with a full month of delay

[glass arch]

no suggestion outside of the current period is gonna go through

why would you add data for stuff that no longer matters

[lucid marsh]

Huh? No, I mean you take the average star count for suggestions from last month, and any suggestion that exceeds that star count gets in

Let's say the star count has a cutoff of a day or two

[glass arch]

yeah why bother
those suggestions dont matter because they arent going up against the ones in the current period

[lucid marsh]

You're missing the entire point

There is no competition between suggestions anymore

[glass arch]

there is in fact still competition

[lucid marsh]

Instead, your suggestion simply needs to be ranked better than average

Well, not the same kind of competition

[glass arch]

its the same competition with a wider margin of error

[lucid marsh]

The number of stars that suggestions get is relatively constant, only changing very gradually

[fossil finch]

delete the suggestion system (calamity will never get another consistency change if this happens

[lucid marsh]

Please don't think about it like that

Think about it as just being the old system, but with a time cutoff for getting enough stars

And then "enough stars" is determined relative to the average

[glass arch]

its not

[lucid marsh]

No, it is, you're just misunderstanding what I'm suggesting

[glass arch]

the old system was specifically adjusted every so often so only roughly the top 20% of suggestions in a period went through

[lucid marsh]

I'm saying to do that minus the manual adjustment

And make it automatic adjustment instead

[glass arch]

mf thats what the bot CURRENTLY DOES

the top 20% of suggestions go through

[lucid marsh]

No, because there is a flaw in the design that means that it is the top 20% of only very recent suggestions

[glass arch]

,yeah because those are the only ones that can be sent through this period

thats why its like that

[lucid marsh]

The current system means that a suggestion can be rejected even if it is loved by a lot of people, solely based on if there were other even better suggestions

[glass arch]

you dont compare things that can go through to things that are no longer able to go through

[glass arch]

yes this is how voting on stuff works

and you can always repost the sugg next period

[lucid marsh]

This is how voting on things which are inherently mutually exclusive works. This restriction has been placed arbitrarily

Simply send both of them through

[glass arch]

they arent mutually exclusive

multiple suggestions go through each period

thats how its designed

[lucid marsh]

It should be designed so that all of them can go through, if they are all good

Which is the advantage of the flat star threshold system

[glass arch]

they can be reposted

its not a one and done situation

i know in the past ive suggested the same thing like 4 times in different periods

[lucid marsh]

That seems like a worse way to do things, even if it can work

[glass arch]

if it doesnt go through because there are better suggestions you can put it in the next batch

[wide river]

Xb, I do agree with you that there could be some improvements to the current system (gameplay suggestions losing to aesthetics time and time again have caused frustration before, as I'm sure you're well aware of), but I don't feel like reverting back to a flat threshold, whether it's relative to other batches or not, would be the change it needs

[golden sonnet]

flat thresholds fluctuate a massive amount based on user activity

suggestions during the summer tend to recieve way more votes, finals week will get way less, etc. setting it as a flat amount results in more rejected suggestions

[lucid marsh]

Here's the reason my system fixes this problem: it isn't a flat threshold, it is directly determined by user activity. Taking the average number of votes that all the suggestions in the last week got will give you a lower bound on how many people are active in suggestions at the current time

[glass arch]

no it is a flat threshold

that is explicitly what you said

[glass arch]

you have literally said it is the flat threshold system

[lucid marsh]

It is flat for a given week but changes over time

I'm talking about multiple different things here

[glass arch]

yeah thats. the current system

[lucid marsh]

No it isn't

[north oracle]

that's how the current system works, yeah
it's a flat number that's dependent on the current votes in the system

[golden sonnet]

^

[glass arch]

the difference is the percentage allowed to go through

[lucid marsh]

Nuh-uh. My system could allow zero suggestions through or it could allow all of the suggestions through

[north oracle]

that seems like a pretty major flaw

[errant wren]

xb ima just say it now, please put everything on the table i'm confused about your take

[glass arch]

its functionally the same system but with a higher percentage that can go through

[glass arch]

thats a massive flaw

no suggestions going through is bad

every suggestion going through is also bad

[lucid marsh]

I think it is an advantage because sometimes every suggestion sucks and sometimes every suggestion is good

[glass arch]

regardless of if the people like it or not the devs are the ones that decide if it can get in

there can be something with 200 votes but it gets denied in dev

[lucid marsh]

That's fine

[glass arch]

and there can be something with 40 votes that gets accepted in dev

[lucid marsh]

I believe that the suggestions which pass should not be determined by the relative quality of the ones that happen to be in the same period. If suggestions must be compared to each other, they should be compared over a large time range

[golden sonnet]

icicle arrow:

[errant wren]

yeah i just don't think that would work

[lucid marsh]

If we had a system where instead of just stars there's up and down votes, that would probably better determine the quality

[glass arch]

it just means if theres one sugg with a massive amount of votes it can automatically disbar every suggestion following it in that month from going through

[lucid marsh]

Which is why you take a larger sample size

To make things like that happen less

That said, I think I've just come up with an even better solution

[errant wren]

(i was just about to say that a larger sample size would mean more people have to make valid suggestions but please continue)

[lucid marsh]

Instead of a star system, have an up and down vote, and then have a requirement for both total score (up minus down) and ratio of up and down votes that a suggestion must meet to pass

[errant wren]

i'm pretty sure that's just reddit

[lucid marsh]

Yws

[errant wren]

and would also involve rewriting the bot

[lucid marsh]

Reddit has a good post ranking system. Probably the best on the Internet

It used to be better before the bots took over

Also, any change requires rewriting the bot. It's not that hard

[fossil finch]

Reddit has a terrible post ranking system actually

it encourages hive minding very strongly and directly just hides your post if it isn't popular

[lucid marsh]

I believe it is good in cases when some things are objectively better than others, and bad when things are just opinion based. I moreso mean that the foundations of it are the best in theory, but it has been made worse over time

[fossil finch]

To be fair, not nearly entirely

[golden sonnet]

this is how it used to be, and was removed for a reason

[fossil finch]

Eitherway we don't really think this would fix much

[golden sonnet]

let me see if I can find rovers history segment

[lucid marsh]

Was it like that?

[fossil finch]

the current system is fine and this whole system is kinda just flair ultimately

[lucid marsh]

I didn't know

[wide river]

I recall the old document mentioning something about this

[errant wren]

you know, i really thought we had it pinned

[glass arch]

we used to

[golden sonnet]

yeah, I'm trying to find the summary of suggestion history but can't find it now

it was pinned at some point

[north oracle]

huh

wonder why it got unpinned

[errant wren]

i mean

we have a peak image on there

so i guess it's fine

[lucid marsh]

The current system definitely works ok, at least, but I feel it could be better

[lucid marsh]

What?

[north oracle]

.

[lucid marsh]

Holy shit it's been 8 years. I joined in the 35 star era, then left later, then joined again

Wow, calamity popularity skyrocketed in 2020, then plummeted back down to like 2017 levels in modern times

[north oracle]

the power of literally everyone being at home for the better part of 2 years

[lucid marsh]

True lol

[distant gyro]

i think this further exemplifies the issues people have with suggestions right now

the star system works very similarly

the less controversial your suggestion is the wider amount of readers it is able to catch

this puts nigh undisagreeable suggestions at a top advantage

[fossil finch]

flip arrow

[distant gyro]

yeah

flip arrow

you just cant fight flip arrow without intentionally doing so

[lucid marsh]

That's why I would make the required ratio only slightly above 1, while combining that with a high total up votes requirement

That is, high but not very high

[fossil finch]

But then you're just making Functionally Stars again

[lucid marsh]

Not quite. You replace the automatic ranking system with a manual system, where any number of suggestions can get in if they're all good

[distant gyro]

part of the goal is to make it so you dont get bombarded with 20 sends and if the qualifications are simply "passable" then that is very very likely

[lucid marsh]

I suppose that's fair

But even so, you could raise the requirement while still removing the issue of "good suggestions may be rejected regardless of popular opinion"

[glass arch]

thats always gonna be an issue

[golden sonnet]

in my experience, the suggestions that are the best have people passionate about the issue behind them, so they are willing to repost them like 3 times for them to get

while the worse suggestions do not

[lucid marsh]

My suggested system makes ur objectively not an issue

[glass arch]

the devs are not obligated to pass every single suggestion that passes

[lucid marsh]

Oh. Not the devs, I just mean the automatic system

Things can still be rejected by the devs, but they won't be rejected automatically just because there were other good suggestions

[glass arch]

a suggestion can be good and not get any votes

[distant gyro]

i mean if a really good gameplay suggestion or something break out of the normal high voted aesthetic ones thats just further shows how much it is approved by people

[lucid marsh]

That isn't really a good thing

In the same way, suggestions that don't get enough votes to pass might be good

[glass arch]

if your entire argument is "but what if" you dont have an argument you have a hypothetical

[lucid marsh]

It is not "what if". I think that about half of all suggestions that don't break rules are pretty good, but don't ever get seen by devs

[echo leaf]

The buff slots part isn't super relevant since 44 buffs is basically impossible to hit, but what bothers me about it is unnecessary visual clutter

[golden sonnet]

Good suggestion, no reason to separate them

Calamity had a bit of an obsession with remaking vanilla buffs

[dense locust]

post moon lord rage and wrath upgrades

[golden sonnet]

Cadence potions, titan scale potions, the profaned rage and wrath upgrades, rage and wrath on empyrean, etc

[harsh echo]

what will the empyrean buff be called then? if merged

[dense locust]

hydrothermic inferno being ever so slightly different from regular inferno

thats more recent though I think

[idle dagger]

it's different??

guwuh

[dense locust]

cause I think it inherited brimstones lore item effect

[golden sonnet]

Empyrean (literally anything cool). Empyrean violence, anger, power, surge, empowerment, etc

[echo leaf]

Yeah, hydrothermic's inferno deals 50 damage and inflicts Brimstone Flames iirc

[golden sonnet]

Empyrean Empowerment kinda fucks ngl

[golden sonnet]

Alliteration

[echo leaf]

Empyrian Armor Fucking Rocks And Now You Rock Too

[harsh echo]

🔥

[dense locust]

oh also reaver rage

[frozen hornet]

I thought empyrean is getting reworked

[ashen warren]

It is, and I'd like to keep the buffs for it. It's a good suggestion to combine them.

[frozen hornet]

Isee

[viral trout]

Hmm should what should it be called tho if they get combined? “Empyrean Rancor” maybe?

[median scaffold]

I like Empowerment more, really

[median scaffold]

#suggestions-posting message
Okay, got one of my suggestions back. Do anyone has anything to object or say about it?

[sand marlin]

I mean, this is why we have QoL mods

Fargo's Mutant does exactly this

And solves everything mentioned here

[median scaffold]

That's rather fair, won't argue that much, but Fargo's Mutant has practically nothing to do with Calamity
And as I said in the suggestion, Cirrus' Candles already do that, so what's the reason for something like Sharpening Station to not do the same?

[sand marlin]

Well the candles rework is more of a recent addition from cal and really the only example of this, it's a rather backwards consistency suggestion. Besides I'd start from reposting the effigy suggestion before going to vanilla class stations

Actually, that's not relevant

I guess this is fine but I wouldn't use the backwards consistency as reasoning

[median scaffold]

I'll do the effigies suggestion too, but a little bit later

[sand marlin]

Let's see...

[median scaffold]

Hm, sure

[sand marlin]

Actually I can't think of much else to use, it's not gonna be great but you should keep it

[median scaffold]

The "backwards consistency", you mean?

[sand marlin]

Yes

[slim cairn]

I dont think we should balance a mod based on other mods

[sand marlin]

Balance?

[slim cairn]

If there are other reasonings to not do it sure

[slim cairn]

Balance or not change

Simply using "we wont do this because x already does" isnt a very good argument because it can be used as an answer to almost everything

[sand marlin]

Cal isn't a QoL mod

It adds its own QoL but ultimately, that's generally based on supporting other aspects of the mod

Not simply as QoL

[slim cairn]

And why exactly does it mean that the current suggestion cant be added.....?

Im not saying it will but uh

I dont see your point lol

[sand marlin]

Because expecting cal to add every kind of QoL you think is possible to add to vanilla is an outrageous thing, this is why most are focused on just supporting what cal's doing, like recipes or shop additions later down the progression line for future upgrades cal adds so that when you aren't prepared to make a weapon later on since you wouldn't really know, you get to complete it without having to go through increased enemy variance and other stuff like that

[slim cairn]

Its genuinely not that deep 😭

[sand marlin]

You asked

Don't complain now

[slim cairn]

I did, and my answer stays the same

[slim cairn]

I still think you are overreacting to it

[sand marlin]

[slim cairn]

At the end of the day its not up to us either way

Wheter it passes or not its for the devs to decide

[sand marlin]

Doesn't really stop us from establishing important reasoning here, besides we can still follow what the devs have leaned towards as previous examples

[slim cairn]

Well, lets see how this one goes

[sand marlin]

Frankly I would wanna see it pass voting but I've been a bit disappointed at how some previous voting results have been

We have a lot of people good with suggestions here yet some of the important ones never pass

It's not very encouraging

[violet zephyr]

Let's generate a new meta where we cater to people's low attention span by trying to stuff the entire suggestion in the title.

[gaunt needle]

Just post hard to agree suggestions (while still of a good enough quality to get into voting) so that more good suggestions pass

Just need to post 4 fake suggestions per 1 real one

[sand marlin]

Nah just post unbeatable suggestions 💪

[olive saddle]

there are exceptions thankfully

i had the tesla potion suggestion pass even thoug hit got like 60 votes

though that may have been less of the suggestion and more of the discussion that stemmed from it(?)

[median scaffold]

The voting is kinda pure luck
And my previous attempt with this suggest was not that lucky enough, even tho it got around 80-90 stars or so

As for the effigies... I want it to pass, but I guess longer suggestions are not that popular (or it was not a good suggestion to begin with, idk)

[fossil finch]

Long suggestions aren't popular no

[sleek turret]

people just scan the sugg they don't bother reading it all zzzz

best tip for long suggs is to separate paragraphs with subheadings including a subheading title

you should also make use of text format like bold letter or cursive or whatever makes it look appealing

[median scaffold]

...huh, I probably should consider it

[violet zephyr]

Yes, let us use 𝓬𝓾𝓻𝓼𝓲𝓿𝓮.

[median scaffold]

Please, sing in 𝓬𝓾𝓻𝓼𝓲𝓿𝓮.

[sand marlin]

[sleek turret]

you should probably check this I think

[median scaffold]

Fair

[sleek turret]

oops

[violet zephyr]

Non-whitelisted link detected.

[median scaffold]

Give me that virus link, Kaizo

[violet zephyr]

Die.

[median scaffold]

I NEED IT

[sleek turret]

Search engexam CAE proposal writing on google

practically more over like a reference guide on how to write something similar to a sugg since the aim of both pieces of text are the same

[fossil finch]

Thomas format return when

[sleek turret]

take it as a reference btw not a gospel

isn't thomas writing just uhhh yea lets make a sugg but put all the info in a mega google doc

[fossil finch]

Change the Wulfrum Lure's recipe to include Silver/Tungsten bars

❓

The Wulfrum Lure is an incredibly useful item, providing easy access to mass quantities of Wulfrum. However, we'd wager it is a little too good at the moment, and propose that its crafting recipe be changed to allow for natural Wulfrum spawns to be the player's main Wulfrum obtainment method in the earliest part of the game. We suggest the third tier of prehardmode ore for this, as it is in the right middle spot for the Lure to not lose its appeal completely while still not being immediately obtainable.

Example of our own writing of the Thomas Suggestion (not an actual Sugg, don't take it seriously)

[sleek turret]

oh yea he always starts a sugg with a ❓

[median scaffold]

I may agree with that

[frail mantle]

Ancient times……..

[fossil finch]

Its kinda moot because you need cores

And lures don't spawn pylons like ever

[gaunt needle]

Remove wulfrum and replace it with tungsten in every drop and recipe

[fossil finch]

Not as ancient as <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

[gaunt needle]

<><

A fish

[violet zephyr]

<><
🔥

[gaunt needle]

🍴 <><

[frail mantle]

Relic of an olden era

[median scaffold]

[dense locust]

Good sugg but I get the feeling people aren’t gonna vote for it bc length

[drowsy plank]

amazing formatting lmao

[median scaffold]

I could just copypaste the older version (it is much shorter and doesn't have much formatting)

[distant gyro]

hey its better than the brimstone elemental why emote

[median scaffold]

What "Brimstone Elemental Why" emote?

[median scaffold]

...actually, I should probably do that, but I want to have better formatting

[drowsy plank]

nah the formatting is fine

i think it kinda helps readability even

it was just funny because it reminds me of Old Suggestions

[idle dagger]

This suggestion makes me wonder why the effigy cannot be turned into the opposite evil biome’s effigy

Through tinkerer in a graveyard

[river lily]

i wish you could craft effigies somehow tbh

having only 1 per world is lame

maybe with evil2 drops

tht way the

shrine still has an use

given it means you can get them before you fight those guys

[idle dagger]

Tbh I typically just go get the other by making another world lmao

I heard talk once that other effigies like a hallowed one was going to exist at one point

[distant gyro]

the abomination

[river lily]

why is she there

[drowsy plank]

for fun

[river lily]

shes just hanging out

[distant gyro]

the emote used to be named "why" and suggestors would just

substitute the word why with the emote and that's not the point of the damn emote

[river lily]

luminite slime

beautiful

[distant gyro]

it later got changed to "ew" (because it's supposed to express why as in disgust) and people still used it

[fossil finch]

Prevoting sugs are scary

[median scaffold]

It can be, iirc

[idle dagger]

Oh it can be??

[river lily]

was fogbound before or after the voting system

[idle dagger]

Buh

[fossil finch]

Before

[median scaffold]

At least, the wiki says so and thus why I don't mention this fact in the suggestion

[fossil finch]

Hellish

[idle dagger]

Yeah that makes sense

[river lily]

i made a suggestion for calamity like

years ago

back when i wasn't even Cheese....

[idle dagger]

Glad they liked the idea to make them craft into each other so much that they went back into the past to add it before I suggested it

[river lily]

i wasn't active in the discord and made a suggestion for an event based off a bunch of scrapped Bug Enemy sprites i found

[median scaffold]

🧀

[river lily]

it would have like a bunch of giant bugs attacking you

[idle dagger]

Bit of cheese for the old rat

[median scaffold]

I think shimmer would make more sense, but that's besides the point

[fossil finch]

Did you fucking suggest legendary beetle summon event

That's fucking hilarious

[idle dagger]

That sounds more cool than it should ngl I would love the bug army

[river lily]

WAIT YEAH

IT WAS A SUMMONER WEAPON RIGHT

it was literally that

[median scaffold]

I need to see it

[idle dagger]

I was planning on making a suggestion regarding early game vanilla accessories that don’t really go anywhere

Particularly panic necklace

[fossil finch]

They're in the scrapped shit doc that must be somewhere

[idle dagger]

Was going to suggest it enter deific amulet until someone pointed out that it used to be a long time ago so I can’t suggest that lmao

So now I’m not sure where the hell panic necklace can go

[fossil finch]

Yay panic necklace into deific yay wooo letw fucking

just leave it alone we think

[idle dagger]

the panic necklace?

[median scaffold]

Chalice

[idle dagger]

lmfao

[dense locust]

tbh I want more random tinkers in general

[idle dagger]

I think sweetheart necklace could fit into absorber

[sand marlin]

Nah Absorber is not becoming an amalgamation of many random effects again

[dense locust]

absorber is fine

[fossil finch]

Chalice becomes deific two as it absorbs two of its previous effects

[dense locust]

I'm talking about stuff like deific litterally just being star veil + astral bars

[idle dagger]

yeah it’s not that absorber needs it which is why I don’t feel confident in slapping sweeter in there

[idle dagger]

Panic would fit so well it’s such a shame lmao

[median scaffold]

Absorber absorbed all of the funny accessories into one

[sand marlin]

Actually? Panic Necklace on Deific doesn't sound bad

[drowsy plank]

tbf it would technically fit the theming and effects of absorber pretty well considering the number of on hit effects it combines

[dense locust]

put like cryo stone or something in there
give it substance

[sand marlin]

The problem is, having a big momentum change is very disorienting with panic necklace

[fossil finch]

what if we made a rampant+chalice miracle matter upgrade and then that could be upgraded further after yharim is added into rampant+chalice+absorber+purity and then that

[sand marlin]

Auric Rampart

Wait a second

[median scaffold]

NO

BETTER

[gray bone]

lmao

[drowsy plank]

rampart is already auric lmao

[median scaffold]

AURIC ABSORBER

[drowsy plank]

explode

[median scaffold]

Or Miracle Absorber, idk

[echo leaf]

And then some more accessories like emblems and the sponge and oops it's The Verboten One

[median scaffold]

That's such a Blast 💥

[sand marlin]

Anyway this sounds like legit material

[fossil finch]

can it have bees

[dense locust]

make it sweetheart not panic tbh

[idle dagger]

I would Suggest it if for not one big problem

[drowsy plank]

"Grants bonus invincibility frames based on your missing health
This effect scales from 10 frames at full HP to 40 frames at 25% or less HP"
i didnt even realize it had this effect lmao

[fossil finch]

let's make deific great again

[sand marlin]

What's the difference again

[fossil finch]

Bees

And honey

[dense locust]

sweetheart is panic + honeycomb

[drowsy plank]

sweetheart include honeycomb

[fossil finch]

Honeybees

[echo leaf]

sweetheart gives honey

[sand marlin]

Guh

[echo leaf]

and bees

bees are great

[echo leaf]

and let them keep the global i-frames

[dense locust]

make the bees like
astral bees

[idle dagger]

This is why

[dense locust]

or smth

[sand marlin]

Can we just remove the bees

[fossil finch]

replace them with astral bees or whatever

[sand marlin]

They are honestly just bad

[echo leaf]

No

[drowsy plank]

honestly why not. actually combine the bees and stars. you could just make it spawn homing stars on hit

[fossil finch]

You're lame

[echo leaf]

The bees are an integral part of the accessory

[sand marlin]

The bees are bad on every single accessory they were and are tacked on

[median scaffold]

They're kinda bad, tho

[drowsy plank]

the stars from veil themselves are already super weird anyway

[fossil finch]

Yeah just do this

[dense locust]

litterally just make bees static

[median scaffold]

^

[dense locust]

it is that fucking simple

[echo leaf]

No the bees MUST be global

[median scaffold]

Why are bees global?

[sand marlin]

Good idea

[drowsy plank]

you either have them killing destroyer in one minute or doing literally nothing because they never hit

[echo leaf]

for the funny

[sand marlin]

You could maybe turn on or off the momentum boost via visibility too

[drowsy plank]

it's so awesome

maybe

[fossil finch]

All this tells us is that deific should get charm of myths again

[idle dagger]

If I am given the pass to suggest sweetheart into deific, despite it having panic once originally being in there once I will go ahead and suggest it lmao

[drowsy plank]

charm is already in chalice smh my head

[fossil finch]

Combine chalice and rampart

[echo leaf]

Chalice + rampart when

[glass arch]

hey

thats my line

[median scaffold]

Slap the sponge in there

[echo leaf]

And The Amalgam

[fossil finch]

Let's make old sponge fuse with rampart chalice

[median scaffold]

And that one revive accessory from DoG

[idle dagger]

Throw in statis void Sash in there just for shits and giggles

[fossil finch]

yup

[glass arch]

nebulous core

[boreal lichen]

add draedon's heart

[median scaffold]

Thanks

[drowsy plank]

why not just focus more on the fact that deific feels weird as an upgrade considering it's just made out of an existing accessory and some random materials rather than combining something? you want to keep the specificity down, but you could use sweetheart as an example of something you think could fit into it thematically or something

[glass arch]

oh boy

this user has not seen triumph of the tank

[idle dagger]

That could work cog I like this line of thinking

Thank you

[drowsy plank]

np
like it could just as easily be bee cloak that gets tossed in, the point isn't to specify, it's to address the underlying issue

[dense locust]

the issue with that argument is that 90% of cals accessory upgrades are litterally just "existing accessory and some random materials"
deific, sponge, amalgam, living dew, infected jewel, alchemical flask. glyph line, ect

[fossil finch]

Alchemical flask users (the whole 0 of them

[glass arch]

at least it isnt specifically other accessories and nothing else

[dense locust]

speaking of glyph line I think hallowed rune and phantomic artifact should just be nuked tbh
they do not deserve to exist

[fossil finch]

No they do

[drowsy plank]

phantomic is fine???

[fossil finch]

Its awesome summoner gets accesories

[sand marlin]

Glyph line is fine, it's the stat stick of summoners

[fossil finch]

you do not know of the shadow ages where glyph line wasn't real

[sand marlin]

Though arguably Affliction still beats Phantomic on Summoner, probably

[dense locust]

summoner has accessories

[dense locust]

so does psa

phantomic is just
bad

[drowsy plank]

does it tho? does it really

[dense locust]

but thats besides the point

[fossil finch]

calamity killed stacking so it doesn't have accesories now

[glass arch]

#calamity-addon-talk message

[drowsy plank]

phantomic is not bad

[dense locust]

yes it is

[median scaffold]

I think PSA is S tier for summoner and A-B tier for other classes

[drowsy plank]

i feel like ive had this convo because i know someone else was trashing the line and i know at least one of them is good right now

[fossil finch]

its all fault of the dedicated items as always

Think about it,.,.

[drowsy plank]

the obvious answer is to just buff them if they're bad rn anyway

[dense locust]

its glyph

glyph is the good one

[drowsy plank]

then just buff the others??

[glass arch]

something performing bad isnt a reason to kill it

something not having an identity or not functioning is a reason to kill it

[fossil finch]

We agree this time because glyph line is awesome

[median scaffold]

Glyph is at least semi interesting

[dense locust]

I dont agree on that front

[median scaffold]

A buff for Hallowed and the last upgrade would be nice to have, tbh

[gaunt needle]

Remove all summoner accessories and give all gauntlets bonus whip range and damage

[fossil finch]

Its not less interesting than stat sticks with onhit effects nobody's ever cared about

[dense locust]

glyph itself is interesting because you arn't garunteed to have all 3 buffs with near 100% uptime

[sand marlin]

Yeah I was gonna say, the alternation is interesting but if they're always up then that's just no different than any other stat stick

[fossil finch]

Calamity next update:

[idle dagger]

Hm
This is a pretty notable gap that’s hard to play around

[dense locust]

the other 2 don't have that limitation so you're basically just left with the stats

[drowsy plank]

then just add a cooldown or something

[gaunt needle]

The summoner rebalance is real

[drowsy plank]

that's definitely not happing, some of the gloves even lost their melee speed but that's a whole nother discussion

[sand marlin]

Cycle between effects on a cooldown...

Effect 1 -> effect 2 -> effect 3 -> effect 1...

[drowsy plank]

if ur gonna bash cal at least bash it correctly

[fossil finch]

well obviously calamity isn't removing every summon accesory?

Its a joke not 'bashing'

[dense locust]

ok but then you consider that one of the effects is defense based and giving that a cooldown just means its the most inconsistant defense boost in the game

[drowsy plank]

okay fair i was more just

it's weird they removed the melee speed from beserker glove right

[gaunt needle]

I am going to bash cal both correctly and incorrectly, there is no stopping me

[drowsy plank]

like im not the only one that finds it weird right

[fossil finch]

isn't it awesome when calamity just

[dense locust]

bers glove is litterally just flesh knucles for 95% of players

[gaunt needle]

Yeah

[fossil finch]

no you're right

Its stupid

[harsh echo]

berserk should have an upgrade

[drowsy plank]

i thought we were going to make the gloves mutually exclusive like guh

[dense locust]

its called hero shield

[fossil finch]

berserker is cool because its the summoner whip acc

[gaunt needle]

I tried to do whip build with berserker glove and was extremely puzzled why it didn't do shit

[fossil finch]

That's its whole thing

[dense locust]

but it doesnt buff whips in cal

[fossil finch]

yeah because calamity bad

We are very intellectual

[gaunt needle]

It literally doesn't buff anything in calamity

Just health

[dense locust]

it buffs true melee damage :)

[fossil finch]

But, really, it is weird cal removes it

Its just poopy

[drowsy plank]

erm that's not true you can stack it with power glove for even bigger weapon sizes

[fossil finch]

because it removes fun building opportunities for summoner

Same reason we don't like emode removing the whip speed boost from all gloves

[gaunt needle]

There are no fun building opportunities for summoner, sadly

However!!! Calamity can just add more firecracker-like whips so you can get more benefits from melee speed!!!

[dense locust]

minion spam build or tanky sentry build, take your pick

[harsh echo]

[gaunt needle]

Also please can calamity add more scaling minions 🥺

[dense locust]

wdym

[gaunt needle]

Like Abigail, desert tiger and stardust dragon

Oh wait the dog staff exists

[drowsy plank]

scaling minions are um

well they sure are!!

[echo leaf]

They do 👍

[dense locust]

abagail on its way from dogshit to dogshit (the buff will make it viable for king slime and nothing else)

[gaunt needle]

Fun reminder: Abigail is considered really good for queen slime in vanilla

[echo leaf]

It deals damage this weapon ROCKS 🔥

[dense locust]

thatsd mostly bc firecracker moment iirc

[gaunt needle]

(It gets buffed in hardmode for whatever reason)

And yeah, Abigail with firecracker explosion instakills all small slimes

[median scaffold]

Fun reminder: Abigail is considered good for Destroyer, too 🔥

[glass arch]

everything is

[median scaffold]

Blade Staff

[gaunt needle]

Most minions can't even catch up to queen

[fossil finch]

vanilla early Hardmode summoner when it

Itw okay Next update they'll add something its okay

Its okay

[gaunt needle]

dw vanilla early hardmode is suffer -> (???) -> blade staff

[dense locust]

there are like 5 different options its just that half of them suck

[gaunt needle]

It's fine

[fossil finch]

There's literally only 2 preboss options

Okay 3

[dense locust]

spider
pirate
abagail
sanguine
thats 4

[gaunt needle]

Sanguine is not pre boss tbh

[fossil finch]

it is

Dreadnaught doesn't actually do anything threatening

[gaunt needle]

Neither does queen slime

[fossil finch]

its just harder to get because Blood Moon Fishing

Queen slime is a boss

Objectively

[dense locust]

queen slime has a threatening attack its called minion spam

[sand marlin]

It's not even funny because the minion spam is more than just obnoxious, they do actual damage

[gaunt needle]

Almost like it's supposed to be an actual threat

[sand marlin]

20 minions all shooting shit at you at once while Queen Slime spams its own projectiles

Very rungod worthy

[fossil finch]

The minion spam is real but it's actually manageable if you use your weapon to aim and stuff so we can't complain that much

[sand marlin]

Well good luck actually hitting them

[gaunt needle]

The firecracker explosion:

[fossil finch]

Every class has a choice that hits them at a guaranteed rate from a safe distance

at that point in hardmode

So like

Thanks?

[sand marlin]

You're never at a safe distance if you're not rungodding at full speed away from all of those

[fossil finch]

this is in no way true

[sand marlin]

It is not justified how Queen Slime handles its minions

[drowsy plank]

gonna be salty about this still ig and also true melee has no rights 😇

[sand marlin]

I mean that'll just ruin your chances

[gaunt needle]

Once again, make whip summoner a proper subclass

[dense locust]

"erm, belongs in balance suggestions" 🤓

[gaunt needle]

Actually can calamity revert the early 1.4 where you could only put vanity accessories into vanity slots for no reason whatsoever

🥺

[echo leaf]

NOO 🥺

[idle dagger]

Banger suggestion

[drowsy plank]

ugh fuck

you're kind of right actually

idk

it's not broken or too weak i just think this sort of completely violates the niche the original item was trying to fill and the new one just. isn't very impressive or useful

[grim tusk]

How tf do you get 20 minions at once?

[drowsy plank]

i mean queen slime's minions don't have a spawn cap to my knowledge

and if you don't have something with good crowd control

[sand marlin]

Well not 20 but I do get 8-12 just sitting like some distance away across the boss and 1-3 flying ones that are like impossible to ignore unless you are fully rungodding

[golden sonnet]

Also she's aerial most of the time, so she just covers the platforms

[sand marlin]

Yeah so you can't even keep them below later on

[golden sonnet]

So when you go to land or go anywhere near the ground you get fucked with the spam

In vanilla the only way I beat her was with rails only to completely ignore the minions

Granted that was GFB

[sand marlin]

My strat just tends to be like
Make a somewhat long arena, 3-4 layers
Rungod on the lowest layer
Go up on turn
Rungod on top layer
Go down on turn
Rinse repeat

That way the minions get despawned and are mostly always on different layers on turn

[drowsy plank]

oh btw habble does this look less salty cause i rewrote it after you said that cause i felt like you had a valid point

this is focusing more on how it fails to fill the niche it's trying to do right now vs. what it used to be

[sand marlin]

Yeah that doesn't look salty

[drowsy plank]

cause the more i look at it, the more i can't tell if this really is a balance thing or not
i think it's more addressing why the repositioning of the accessory's purpose sort of fails, and why it's more generic version would be a more worthwhile readdition

[sand marlin]

Well if it's just reversion then it'd be balance because it's adding a simple stat as a buff

If you made it a more general repurpose then that'd stay

[drowsy plank]

mmm
i guess you make a valid point, yeah, this should probably go there

idk how i should handle proof really

i GUESS i could do test how it performs against some bosses versus the other ones i mentioned

lmao

[sand marlin]

Statistical comparison with other more balanced accessories of the tier

And then maybe test samples if there's anything unusual to be found only in combat

[dense locust]

oh god early hm defensive accs

[idle dagger]

Just found out balance issue reports wasn't in my channel list no wonder I struggled to find it

[sand marlin]

Wait Deific Amulet has Sea Prisms... now you can call that a random material huh, I forgot it wasn't just Astral Bars even after the other accessories were gone

[drowsy plank]

yeah lol

also i think amalgam mention is funny because

i also think amalgam's recipe sucks

but this is more a problem with the amalgmated brain line in general than amalgam specfically

[fossil finch]

amalgam should get bloody worm scarf again and scarf should be made a general acc instead of melee we think

[dense locust]

ankh is just glove but instead of max life you get kb immunity
frost barrier... exists
I have no idea what to think of turtle shell
fairy I've said my piece on several times before
ursa is getting reworked so who cares
gelatin and charm exist I guess, charm is just kinda ok imo gelatin is overrated
theres so many of these damn things and none of them are actually fucking interesting

[drowsy plank]

i guess that would fit thematically

[sand marlin]

I wouldn't say Charm of Myths is just okay

[dense locust]

charm gets good later

[drowsy plank]

god the fucking evil1-evil2 combo accessories are so goofy

evil2 is goofy

[dense locust]

but when you get it I think its just ok

[fossil finch]

This is Controversial but what about

[drowsy plank]

god it always comes back to evil2 i hate them so much

[sand marlin]

Red Wine + Baguette

[fossil finch]

What if Amal brain loses the damage bonus and amalgam has it because bloody worm scarf is like an alt emblem or something

[hollow verge]

gelatin is so goddamn overrated

[drowsy plank]

amal brain would barely even be different from brain of confusion at that point

[dense locust]

...you make an excellent point, I forgot those existed

[sand marlin]

Gelatin just gets pushed back to hotswap slot

[drowsy plank]

which honestly
whatever fuck rotten brain that thing is such a nothing item

lmao

[dense locust]

its getting buffed

[sand marlin]

And well, it makes for an excellent hotswap. It still is hotswap though

[fossil finch]

Rotten brain's problem to be hones

[drowsy plank]

maybe rotten brain should die 😇

anyway on a more serious note i do remember hearing it was going to be reworked so

maybe the whole line will get touch ups then

[dense locust]

scarf in its current state is hilariously broken as a generalist acc

[drowsy plank]

unsurprisingly i think that depends on whatever is decided to be done with evil2 though because

[fossil finch]

Evil 2 retier to post plantera (aureus is sacrificed for this purpose

[hollow verge]

"maybe rotten brain should die" me when brain cancer

[fossil finch]

Yeah we know

[drowsy plank]

god just thinking about them makes me irrationally mad

[slim cairn]

I hope the amalgamated brain gets reworked for the better honestly

Or that mages get more accessories

[drowsy plank]

lmao

ah yes because the rain deals magic damage

thus it is a mage accessory

[dense locust]

real

[fossil finch]

We should remove every accesory but the mage ones

[slim cairn]

Oh its not that its a mage accessory

Its because of how little accessories mages have as a class

That arent like

Mana flower number 38

[dense locust]

chaos stone polarizer and emblem upgrades

oh and cuffs

[sand marlin]

Permafrost's Concoction

[idle dagger]

Okay unrelated but concerning amalgam I was inspired to make a suggestion about corroded fossils drop chance after someone complained
If you (for whatever reason) did not horde corroded fossils, getting them around the time you craft the amalgam is kind of annoying

[fossil finch]

Concoction is hilarious

Mage revive

[slim cairn]

Concoction is uh

I avoid that

[hollow verge]

that meme of a parent holding a kid in a pool while a separate kid struggles to swim

kid being held - stealth rogue, summoner, melee
parent - cal devs
drowning kid - ranger, mage

[slim cairn]

At least the last effect isnt that uaeful

[sand marlin]

Ranger isn't drowning though

[fossil finch]

Kill rogue and that's your ranger benefits

[slim cairn]

Because if you were about to die being stuck in place will only save you in like 3% boss hp situations

[vernal flower]

me playing mage atm

[fossil finch]

Want ranger to be cooler? Kill rogue and give its best weapons to ranger

[slim cairn]

Explodes you with my mind

[dense locust]

I mean
in terms of accesories it kinda is
90% of ranger accs are just "damage and some projectile speed"

[fossil finch]

We're right

[drowsy plank]

there was a suggestion about this before that failed to pass so go ahead

[fossil finch]

We have crept this scope too far

Its time someone dealt with it

[drowsy plank]

rogue is fine, it's calamity's class

[idle dagger]

Awesome

[drowsy plank]

killing it outright is dumb

[slim cairn]

I think ranger is fine weapon wise, might need a few flamethrowers imo

[dense locust]

scope creep means nothing anymore it's too far ingrained in this mod

[slim cairn]

But the issue are mainly accessories

[drowsy plank]

ur reaching the point of just turning the mod off again lmao

[sand marlin]

That's just Deadshot Brooch and the Quivers

[fossil finch]

[slim cairn]

Enderpikmin foiled again

[fossil finch]

That's the contrary from foiled actually

[fossil finch]

That's the entirety of ranger accs though

[drowsy plank]

the only thing im clueless about is why ur still here if that is ur opinion

[fossil finch]

oh

we do have our reasons

[dense locust]

your options outside of those include:
make your bows broken
make your snipers broken
that one sulphur sea acc
that one mediocre folly acc

[fossil finch]

You'll know wdk it doesn't matter

Anyways yeah ranger doesn't have any more accs

Has anyone used the folly one

Ever

[sand marlin]

Stem Cell is not mediocre

It's just uhh

[slim cairn]

Not the first time ive seen someone who doesnt like the mod be connected to it

[sand marlin]

Reverse AP

[fossil finch]

The sulphur sea one is like?

?

[median scaffold]

Explodes you with my mind

[fossil finch]

its the most Nothingburger thing in the world

[dense locust]

its like
ok
I'd use it for yharon but not really anything outside of that

[vernal flower]

Parries it

[median scaffold]

Teleports behind

[sand marlin]

It's SCal viable with TE

[fossil finch]

parry/block or dodge

[sand marlin]

[median scaffold]

Roleplaying in its finest

[drowsy plank]

incredible suggestion

[vernal flower]

parries the teleport

[sand marlin]

@trail fiber the entire point of debuffs is that they don't scale with damage multipliers

[median scaffold]

[median scaffold]

Parries the parry

[dense locust]

mind if I ask what the actual tests on that look like

[vernal flower]

AUUUUUHH

[drowsy plank]

this has no reasoning and would be a balance thing anyway lol

[sand marlin]

12% contribution

[vernal flower]

[sand marlin]

Let me check

[fossil finch]

Its okay tyranny's end will be yharim tier when he gets added so this doesn't matter

[vernal flower]

there needs to be a mage weapon that just sucks the soul out of things

[drowsy plank]

stem cells are good now that they do
this
"10% increased ranged damage and movement speed
Ranged weapons fire a powerful mini swarmer every 3 seconds
Reduces the damage of the Dragonfire and Electrified debuff"

[vernal flower]

[median scaffold]

Debuffs are relatively weak post... I guess Golem / ML?

[dense locust]

its
weird
and probably weapon specific

[drowsy plank]

i mean it depends on what debuffs ur running

[slim cairn]

Ranger needs more flamethrowers is what i believe in

[idle dagger]

what does a mini swarmer even do

[drowsy plank]

angel spent a lot of time trying to make sure they were viable on most weapons

[trail fiber]

i know but i think some weapons aren't really good because of that, for example, daybreak is directly bad

[drowsy plank]

there definetly is some bias still but i was there when it was being made

[dense locust]

...

[royal tapir]

Angel mentioned wanting to tweak it more

[drowsy plank]

"The swarmers deal 600-(usetime*20) of the weapon's base damage, with a minimum of 100% of the weapon's base damage for weapons with a use time of 25 or higher."

yeah

[fossil finch]

Good item

[slim cairn]

Daybreak is one of the best weapons for moonlord rn, using hellfire treads and the fire debuff potion that cirrus sells

[violet zephyr]

Does that still exist? Wasn't that for when the swarmers spawned on a % chance?

[drowsy plank]

no this is new

[idle dagger]

i saw that on my melee guide
sounds funny as hell

[drowsy plank]

this is replacing the % chance

[sand marlin]

Tyrannys End
with stem cells

scal: 4:41 (11.5% folly)

[dense locust]

what did cells replace

[violet zephyr]

No, the damage calculation for Dynamo Stem Cells using Use Time.

[drowsy plank]

that isn't the chance calc, this is the damage calc

[violet zephyr]

I know.

[drowsy plank]

since they spawn on set intervals now, that's how it's balanced

[sand marlin]

I mean you can't really replace anything other than Recon Scope

[fossil finch]

so yeah like ranger could get something else outside of quiver of nihility or OOps Its Another Dedicated Class Defining Acc

[sand marlin]

I could ask though

[violet zephyr]

I'm asking if it is still like that, since the only reason the damage was calculated with Use Time was because it used to spawn with a chance.

[sand marlin]

@misty lichen

[drowsy plank]

yes im trying to tell you why it is like that because yes it is still like that and that is a difference formula

[sand marlin]

Didn't mean to ping on that reply but w/e

[drowsy plank]

the previous formula modified the chance for them to spawn based on usetime

[trail fiber]

god i forgot that was a thing

[drowsy plank]

this is now a modified damage with the usetime because they always spawn every three seconds

[fossil finch]

Alternatively we go back in time and donate for a rogue, melee, and mage equivalent to PSA/Dwanlight Thing

[drowsy plank]

because before you'd just use fast firing weapons and they'd spawn more often so it biased towards them

[fossil finch]

your choice

[drowsy plank]

now the swarmers can work on both fast and slow weapons

[trail fiber]

me when a single folly doing 9k damage

is a really good accs, i love the change

[violet zephyr]

Does Handheld Tank even have 3 seconds worth of Use Time? If not, this is literally pointless.

[drowsy plank]

hey i mean if ur using a sniper, you'd want the swarmer to deal similar damage wouldn't you?

wh

handheld tank is post-Provi why are you trying to make it out like that's the only weapon with slow usetime near when you get that

[violet zephyr]

Because it is the slowest weapon I could think of, and if that doesn't have 3 seconds worth of use time, then having use time in the formula for damage is pointless.

[slim cairn]

Explodes

[fossil finch]

It isn't?

Why would it be

Use time in terraria isn't measured in seconds

[violet zephyr]

"worth of use time"

I didn't say it was exactly the same.

I know it is measured in frames.

[fossil finch]

still, why does it matter

Slower weapons will still benefit

[violet zephyr]

If every weapon fires the swarmers at the same time, why does the damage calculation need use time?

[fossil finch]

because they don't?

[drowsy plank]

i guess it's more the idea of how often you'd miss them, and the fact that faster firing weapons would be able to fill in the time between swarmers better if they just dealt flat damage

[fossil finch]

Oh they do

m,

Cogs right still though

[drowsy plank]

if you had swarmers with damage worth dealing on a slow weapon, then they'd be just as good on a faster weapon, thus making using slow weapons with them pointless

because the faster ones could get the bonus + fill in the downtime better

[violet zephyr]

Don't swarmers home?

[drowsy plank]

actually

im not sure

[hollow shell]

... is that the "point"?

[drowsy plank]

it doesn't say they do anywhere

[drowsy plank]

ah okay so they do

[fossil finch]

the point of debuffs is that terraria is a ten year old rpg clone

[violet zephyr]

They were changed to have the new homing system, so evidently they home.

[drowsy plank]

still, you can miss homing shots if the homing is weak enough

[hollow shell]

(is this sentence missing a "%" somewhere
they deal 600ish "of".. what?)

[drowsy plank]

and it doesn't change my other point

it isn't to nerf faster weapons, it's to buff slower ones that are using it

kinda like how flat damage scales better with faster weapons, but %damage scales better with slower ones

either way, last i heard it was performing well so i aint gonna beef with it

if it works, it works

[drowsy plank]

nah it's pretty straight forward, they deal 600 damage, subtracting the usetime*20

ah wait

no

it says of the weapons base damage

[hollow shell]

Yeah

[drowsy plank]

that is confusing

[hollow shell]

To the source!

[violet zephyr]

It could be missing a % at the end.

[drowsy plank]

prolly

[violet zephyr]

So it would be 600-(usetime*20)%

[sand marlin]

Well yes DoT in like every game are meant to act as a secondary damage source that will try to wear you down without being affected by regular damage reduction methods

[hollow shell]

Also if it was subtracting usetime then wouldn't slower weapons be dealing huge negative damage? Wouldn't they be getting weaker as weapons get slower?

[drowsy plank]

bluh

[dense locust]

Yes

[drowsy plank]

i should prolly just go dig up what i said to angel lmao

[fossil finch]

To the source!

[violet zephyr]

I will... attempt to read code... again.

[hollow shell]

Already getting it open

[fossil finch]

We don't actually have calamity's source here

sad

[hollow shell]

(it's public)

[fossil finch]

we know

[hollow shell]

(it's online)

[fossil finch]

Sentenced to three seconds of browsing GitHub on mobile

[drowsy plank]

int newDamage = (int)(damage * (6 - 5 * (item.useTime >= 25 ? 1 : item.useTime / 25)));

[hollow shell]

An in-line if in the middle of a math equation
Be very afraid

[drowsy plank]

this is very different from what is on the wiki lol

[hollow shell]

Okay yeah it's useTime divided by 25, not multiplied by 20
That makes a lot more sense

[sand marlin]

@golden sonnet Tiger Skin is more of a donor issue that isn't used anywhere else honestly. Like I could maybe see a shimmer interaction somewhere to fix that at best. Stuff like Katana can have better sources later on to fit the "this thing has an upgrade so it must be more easily available at a later stage" though so that's pretty valid... I don't think there are any other examples left? Does Revolver upgrade into anything?

[fossil finch]

Dedicated item moment

[echo leaf]

Ace's High

[sand marlin]

Ok so Revolver can also get that treatment

[drowsy plank]

you can thank me for that one

[golden sonnet]

Yep

[fossil finch]

We should refund donors and remove items like thorium did and this one we actually believe should be done

[drowsy plank]

so true

[hollow shell]

(yeah about that Travelling Merchant sugg
Adding recipes is extremely boring but extremely easy. I know why you included that as a possibility for implementation because that makes it really easy for any dev to just add
But ideally some other solution would be done instead

Like, making it so the Travelling Merchant is guaranteed to sell at least one item required in a later recipe. Two if you've used the Peddler's Satchel.)

[hollow verge]

ngl i hope the outcome of the luminite-exodium sugg is that luminite is made harder to mine. it's weird that it takes anything less than a luminite pickaxe to mine it, considering it's post-ml

[fossil finch]

so sad like 20 donors are just missing though

So you just can't actually

[sand marlin]

Honestly I was thinking shop buys

I'm not sure who would have Katana though

[hollow shell]

"shop buys"?

[sand marlin]

Arms Dealer can sell Boomstick and other usually rare early weapons later down the line

[golden sonnet]

Good point, I might try to think of a good way to rephrase increasing the RNG of traveling merchant

[hollow verge]

bandit maybe? break them from being The Rogue Merchant

[sand marlin]

This is what I meant with "this thing has an upgrade so it must be more easily available at a later stage" and Wizard also follows this

[golden sonnet]

Rather than crafting, as I agree crafting is a bad solution often, hence my fight for a lot of the current QoL recipes to be removed

[hollow shell]

Clothier because there's inexplicably some east asian culture stuff in the Dungeon
(Muramasa, Bone Lee and his drops)

[drowsy plank]

oh, oh!

[sand marlin]

Interesting

[drowsy plank]

also keybrand and katana swap in dontdigup

[idle dagger]

Those are my two suggestions of the day, but I will make another concerning the traveling merchant tomorrow

[drowsy plank]

so him selling it would also make sense because of the random dungeon association it has there as well

[hollow shell]

Nobody cares about Don't Dig Up (unfortunately).

[idle dagger]

There was a voting suggestion that got accepted about shimmering the stopwatch and the like

[drowsy plank]

i realize, but it does give the katana more connection to the dungeon like you were saying

[idle dagger]

I'd like to suggest the same for the hand of creation components

[hollow shell]

Hmmm

[hollow shell]

Oh that's what you mean
Ok I get it

[drowsy plank]

oh like the parts of architect gizmo pack?

[idle dagger]

yes

[drowsy plank]

i agree that would be very nice

[fossil finch]

Just give those a shimmer cycle

[drowsy plank]

yes that is what we are saying

[hollow shell]

(before I forget I'll try adding the new Dynamo Stem Cells equation to the page)

[drowsy plank]

thanks lmao

[idle dagger]

If nobody suggests the architect gizmo pack components shimmer cycle themselves today I will tomorrow

[sand marlin]

Okay but I don't really like how this is becoming "just buy 3/4 of them and shimmer each to get what you want" that's like really boring and you just automatically have the upgrade

[hollow shell]

Shimmer Cycle is inherently less boring than a recipe imo

[fossil finch]

what's the other solution then

[drowsy plank]

is it somehow less boring than "sleep in a bed repeatedly until he shows up with the right item"

[fossil finch]

Get 5 iron bars to make the item

[drowsy plank]

🤯

[fossil finch]

wait until post Calclone where merchant sells them

[hollow shell]

shimmer is new and pretty and cool and you have to go find it and it's really hard to move the liquid anywhere from its position in the world

[fossil finch]

exciting!!!

[sand marlin]

Okay but why would you need to have all of them at once whenever you want to

One of them will pretty much always spawn each time anyway

[drowsy plank]

so you can actually use the item??

it's the same reason fish finder components shimmer into each other

it just makes it easier

[fossil finch]

we agree but if calamity is going all in with this it should just go all in because

[sand marlin]

You're just being handed such a useful accessory with 0 effort

[drowsy plank]

ur acting like 4 travelling merchant visits will equate to getting the item

[fossil finch]

You're never getting calamity players to agree with traveling merchant gameplay sadly

[sand marlin]

I did not say that, nor did I imply that

What I do want to say is

You could cut the shimmer cycle in half

[drowsy plank]

oh so like one and one

[sand marlin]

Yes

[fossil finch]

There's 3 though

[drowsy plank]

brick into grip and paint into porta?

[sand marlin]

Gizmo pack

[idle dagger]

architect is made of 4

[fossil finch]

Oh

We always forget about

[sand marlin]

Idk about info accessories, those might... be fine

[fossil finch]

One of them

[sand marlin]

It's not great still but you can't cut those in half or anything

So I can't think of anything better

[drowsy plank]

they are very forgettable much like the individual wrenches!

[sand marlin]

Something like that yes

[golden sonnet]

Working on a new suggestion about the rare sold items, will post when done

[drowsy plank]

yeah i can get on board with that

[violet zephyr]

We should add a new enemy in the Jungle called the Tiger that drops Tiger Skin.

[idle dagger]

The odds of you getting at least two is pretty decent
I can be fine with that as a good compromise

[drowsy plank]

LOL

[fossil finch]

Honestly the satchel extra slot could pull from a very specific set of items like the gizmo accs and the shellphone accs in vanilla this would be kinda awesome

[drowsy plank]

that certainly would be nice tbqh

it always sucks when you just get vanity accessories from the merchant and nothing else

it certainly doesn't help weapons he sells either

[hollow shell]

BASED

[idle dagger]

I think apart of why I especially want to get hand of creation early is that chisel was nerfed to 15% mining speed while hand is still 25%
mmm 10% mining speed I want you

[drowsy plank]

erm uh. guarnteed revolver sell just like all other NPC weapons

[violet zephyr]

One combat orientated or information accessory sold everytime, atleast.