suggestions-discussion

[misty lichen]

less bullshit bh5 is great but the fight still has core issues

[drowsy plank]

i feel like we are getting off topic here, and the problems with scal don't discount the fact that if you get hit by one scal fireball, or any attack really, you're more likely to panic after getting hit, and get hit again, and defense damage punishing that rather than what it is supposed to do, which is punishing standing inside the bosses, is a fundemtental problem with how it is designed, and MPG's suggestion on exponential defense damage, rather than linear, would do nothing but improve the mechanic, whether getting chainhit is a problem or not

[misty lichen]

yes i agree

👍

[drowsy plank]

having a grace period before defense damage gets bad, and then ramping up a LOT if you continuously get hit is literally how it should've worked from the beginning

is very silly

[frosty trellis]

And I know defense damage is supposed to stop facetanking because I was told directly by Ozzatron that was the intended usecase for it

[deep kiln]

what if the armor debuff affected contact damage more than other sources of damage?

[misty lichen]

it should exponentify after 2 hits

simple change

[misty lichen]

it needs to be all sources

[drowsy plank]

esp with the contact damage changes

[hollow verge]

rp:mpg sugg - can i bribe nycro to let this one immediately go to dev voting /j

[deep kiln]

do you mean all sources equally affecting defense damage equally, defense damage affecting all sources of damage equally, or something else?

[hollow verge]

i do like it a lot and ill be a little madge if it doesnt get votes

[misty lichen]

what

[fossil finch]

Remove

[misty lichen]

it needs to not be less lenient to projectiles because projectile facetanking is usually better than contact damage facetanking actually

[deep kiln]

oh, I see

[frosty trellis]

Oh absolutely lmao don't discrimanate

[sand marlin]

I mean I don't think it's hard to get people to vote for a defense damage nerf, in a way at least so that should be fine probably

[frosty trellis]

God I really hope this gets into voting as passes

[hollow verge]

sometimes i think things are obvious clears and then they lose out to "add calamity kites"

[sand marlin]

The average player doesn't like defense damage because they're being punished from something they aren't supposed to be

[misty lichen]

🪁

[misty lichen]

#suggestions-voting message just saying

[deep kiln]

a lot of projectiles in the game have DoT effects, maybe getting hit by 1 projectile gives a minor DoT, getting hit again while that DoT effect is happening gives a more intense DoT effect, and it escalates from there? since, unless I'm mistaken, Terraria's DoT effects bypass defense.

[fossil finch]

Remove it

[hollow verge]

AND IM RIGHT /nsrs

[wide river]

They complain about facetanking being difficult when most wouldn't do it even if it was easy

[hollow verge]

i hope to god "rename old duke summoner" and "kill old duke summoner damage" damage both get to voting

objectively funniest outcome

coz if it doesnt do damage, the rename is effectively pointless. you wouldnt see its name under normal circumstances.

[misty lichen]

the issue is just the suggestion formula, with the more stars the most popular suggestions get the harder it is to actually get something into voting

the percentage based formula needs to go

[hollow verge]

you could ping nycro about it maybe

or make a suggestion an-- //dies

but yea like. my "shimmer the TM shellphone items into each other" sugg lost by like 10 votes but got over 100

[fossil finch]

Like we know its not being removed but really it is the best case scenario here

[hollow verge]

if there wasnt def damage i would 100% play facetank ngl

so i think its a good system. but making it exponential like mpg suggs is a good idea

[sand marlin]

Can't really be the best case scenario if the goal isn't being achieved

Start with "they should stop trying to prevent facetank" if you wanna bother

[fossil finch]

well yes

[sand marlin]

Since they do, removing defense damage just goes right back to square one

[fossil finch]

That is inherently part of our argument

[hollow verge]

immediately getting dick blasted with like -100 def for one hit is just brutal to people who are getting hit from simple lack of skill

[fossil finch]

It doesn't matter

It legitimately does not

And most egregious cases can instead be accomplished with specific item nerfs

[hollow verge]

reaver armor moment

[sand marlin]

No.

[fossil finch]

it can

Obviously without DD you cannot prevent face tanking

But most egregious cases of it can be diminished by nerfing items instead

[drowsy plank]

that's just your opinion

straight up that's just a difference on how you see design

[hollow verge]

can you give an example? just so i understand your idea of how these nerfs might balance facetanking

[drowsy plank]

to the cal devs it does matter

simple as that

[fossil finch]

lol to the only cal dev that mattered when it was implemented was fabsol

[hollow verge]

i mean fabsol is the owner

so like. if it matters to him then yeah thats a big deal.

[fossil finch]

we remember Fabsol tanking the ml beam

[hollow verge]

(...fabsol uses he/him right?)

[fossil finch]

On the playthrough that made DD happen

that also was before the sponge line reworks though (ampoule and absorber if you don't know)

Iirc

[drowsy plank]

i believe so yes

[drowsy plank]

damn the only person that this design decision matters to is the person who literally controls all the design decisions

[hollow verge]

ok awesome. ive never been entirely certain bc his self insert is, yknow, Princess and She/Her

[drowsy plank]

no i get it; cirrus is more of an OC

not a sona or something

[hollow verge]

ohhh

[fossil finch]

this is a fight I cannot win wow epic reference anyways what were we saying

It's like both

[hollow verge]

i thought cirrus was a self insert sjkdffsd

[fossil finch]

It doesn't matter, really

Its a self insert sona oc

[drowsy plank]

nah i get it, it's a common mistake

[hollow verge]

you know what? shoutout

[drowsy plank]

lol

[fossil finch]

oh yeah Defense damage is bad because it generates these problems yeah

Just less enjoyable

Not worth the price of killing face tanking or whatever

[hollow verge]

drunk princess is awesome npc and i have a very fond memory of when i got the princess spirit in a bottle and my friend fucking cracked bc they were tired + didnt know the lore

[fossil finch]

you can iterate on it infinitely and (we do hope) find a version that doesn't screw players over unnecessarily but

well, you got our point

[sand marlin]

That's normal, like with every other new variable that would've been present in the same situation

[violet zephyr]

I hate this view point.

"It's bad now, so its better to remove it, rather than reiterate and improve it."

Shut up.

[hollow verge]

😭

fight fight fight /silly

[sand marlin]

Let's stay civilized, on both ends.

[fossil finch]

Well yes

Because we don't think it's worth trying to go and improve it and reiterate on it

[frosty trellis]

?????

You're the only one who thinks that

[fossil finch]

? We're not saying anyone else thinks that

[frosty trellis]

We all want to improve it because the design standpoint of wanting to kill brainless facetanking is good and makes sense

[sand marlin]

Defense damage is meant to be targetting a very specific playstyle to nerf it to reasonable levels so that the player doesn't just get a lot of defense, regen sources and live everything. Ideally it is made so that facetanking is still doable but requires the effort to pull it off and otherwise pose a significant risk to the player. It is not meant to harm other things but since it currently is, that needs changing.
It isn't easy to do this, you know. Of course it would introduce a lot of problems to the table, this much is obvious

[frosty trellis]

And I proved all that time ago that brainless facetanking isn't fun or interesting

[fossil finch]

That ideally doesn't happen though

[frosty trellis]

Well, it was fun for me but I was breaking everything, it's not remotely interesting tho

[sand marlin]

It very well can

[frosty trellis]

And was ridiculously easy

[fossil finch]

Most people don't go for face tanking anyways which is why we think it is not an issue

oh well

[violet zephyr]

What is it you want? Would you rather the developers spend all their time finetuning every defensive accessory that does and will exist?

[frosty trellis]

That's more of a calamity mindset issue of defense is bad more than anything

[fossil finch]

We'd rather calamity balance be infinitely more lax actually

[drowsy plank]

bruh what is this sugg

sure i guess

[violet zephyr]

It is simpler much easier for the future to create a system to prevent facetanking, than to prevent facetanking by finetuning accessories.

[drowsy plank]

technically not breaking any rules

[fossil finch]

this is not a time for that discussion anyways and we want to do stuff other than talking about fundamental cal issues again so lets move on

[drowsy plank]

still a tad goofy but whatever

[median scaffold]

[fossil finch]

Sure whatever give provi dialogue

[median scaffold]

Providence can talk?

[fossil finch]

we're fine with that

[random talon]

Having Providence yap would be kinda nice

[heady hatch]

i just want more lore

[random talon]

Understandable

[median scaffold]

"Hey, that DoG looks delicious... maybe I should invite him to a dinner after destroying your (PG13 RATING)!"

[sand marlin]

Difference of design perspective is not a fundamental fault anyway

[fossil finch]

we think some design perspectives can be wrong actually! But again

Not worth talking about

[heady hatch]

"In a time lost to memory, there were four visionaries. With righteous fury, they slew a dragon, and their leader gorged Herself upon its auric soul of Flame. "The world is without guidance, and its people are filled with darkness." She said. There was silence, until Providence spoke once more. "Let us go forth, and light the world anew." And it was so."

[frosty trellis]

And I can tell you straight up

That does not work

When chalice was released it was terrible in non-facetank builds

But for me it was literally handed to me on a silver platter and said "go facetank Yharon" and I did so, even if for literally anyone else but me it just looked useless so no one else used it

Which wasn't the intention but because fine tuning to try and prevent scenarios doesn't work super well and ends up making a lot of accessories just Bad in a normal sense because of it, it ends up being the much easier thing to implement to have a system that punishes the problem rather than trying to redesign the game around the problem

[fossil finch]

So yeah providence talking is good if you're going to do all this shit characterize providence in game more properly or something

[fossil finch]

Which is why again we think its not worth addressing the "problem"

[frosty trellis]

The entire reason defense damage is in it's current state

Is because of the sins I wrought upon this world

[sleek turret]

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

KAKAKAJAJJAJAJAJAJSJSJSJSJAHAGVAGH

[median scaffold]

Can we, like... send you to Tank Heaven or smth?

[sand marlin]

Evil to just get it nerfed before anyone else can enjoy it tbh......

[frosty trellis]

I was the one who wanted defense damage to be changed to actually punish facetanking as prior it not only did not do that, but only punished chain hits in balanced and glass builds

[hollow verge]

this is a good sugg tbh. i love it, i want her to talk to us. i mean, she's a god who's evaded yharim. and you kill her. she should say something!!!

[median scaffold]

"That was calamitous"

[hollow verge]

sdkflsdf

[fossil finch]

Her little bestiary whatevers are something but they don't really convey much about her so

[median scaffold]

Providence going "djsafkjsdljlksadflkasdfaljsdlkf" in the middle of the fight would go so hard, frfr

[frosty trellis]

I mean

The reason why chalice is good now and not abusable as shit is because of the fact me and Ozz talked for like an hour on how to make it good while removing any abuses with it

So yeah that happens

[frosty trellis]

(It also happened to have happened in the same conversation where I was finally able to get Rampart nerfed in the removal of the charm of myths to the line, as even deific was just so good on its own until post Yharon because of the iframes it granted you, let alone the potion cooldown as well)

(So it's now just a Good accessory and not a You Must Use This accessory)

[median scaffold]

@serene spruce, bye

[sand marlin]

It kinda is still essential but only because of defense damage

[fossil finch]

good suggestions

[sleek turret]

peak, isn't it?

[drowsy plank]

@sleek turret @serene spruce please don't post messages in the #suggestions-posting; i feel like yall should know this by now --"

[median scaffold]

Nuggets leaved

[frosty trellis]

Meme posted in calmain
Public execution protocols initiated

[hollow verge]

the whole server???

[median scaffold]

Yes, try to kill me
I have the Sponge equipped

[median scaffold]

Yes, the whole server

[hollow verge]

why

[frosty trellis]

Stealth bar noise
Is holding Scarlet Devil

Sure, I'll kill you

[hollow verge]

insane

[median scaffold]

Uhh, you probably could ask them in DM, I guess...?

[fossil finch]

Oh they're nuking themselves from the server

[frosty trellis]

Weirdge

[median scaffold]

PSA noises
Holds whips

I'll go with my favourite

If only minions could actually attack players in PvP

[wide river]

Erm no roleplay in suggestions

[frosty trellis]

It do be off topic

[median scaffold]

Yeah

[frosty trellis]

Regardless

Hopefully defense damage is good in like 2 weeks

[median scaffold]

I don't think 2.0.4.004 is coming in the next 2 weeks

[echo leaf]

2 Fargo weeks

[median scaffold]

Now that sounds like the reality!

[frosty trellis]

I meant as in
Suggestion getting accepted and implemented

[median scaffold]

Oh, that
Yeah, will wait for the voting

[lucid marsh]

Wait, why is my suggestion invalid? Was it already implemented? Or rejected?

[sand marlin]

Just look at what you were pinged with.

[lucid marsh]

I wasn't. It's just ❗ marked

[sand marlin]

You were

[drowsy plank]

rejected twice before

[sand marlin]

#suggestions-discussion message literally

[lucid marsh]

Oh

Ok I missed that

[idle dagger]

Ton of suggestions today, wow!

I’ve not much to add to them but I am particularly fond of the sickness debuff and the defense damage ones

Also providence speaking would be pretty neat lol

[olive saddle]

What is she gonna say

[violet zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/ltg-gif-40123618314459872

That.

But with fire in the background instead of lightning.

[idle dagger]

I have a question

I was going to post a suggestion, but after doing some research, I see a post about the same topic was made a little over a year ago, but was denied
However, another post of a different topic was posted twice (once also a little over a year ago, and again quite recently)
It was denied the first time, and accepted the second, which makes me believe it’s possible that the outlook on a suggestion can change over time

Would it be okay to still go through with the suggestion idea I have if it was denied (by a different poster) over a year ago? Or would that be frowned upon?

If curious it’s related to the upgrades of the shark tooth necklaces

[echo leaf]

It shouldn't be a problem to suggest, I don't think. A mod can answer more firmly though

[drowsy plank]

you can just post it here first

[idle dagger]

Sure thing

I’ll formulate a proper suggestion style text and post it here afterwards

[idle dagger]

Here's the idea

A post about the same concept was made a while ago

[drowsy plank]

yeah no i mean this is just not correct, but it should go in #1178515062030348308 regardless

so yeah this isn't even the right channel, disregarding the other issues with it

[idle dagger]

Oh right yes thank you
somehow missed that there's a seperate area for balance stuff

I'll just remove that from here to lessen the clutter

[drowsy plank]

makes sense

[idle dagger]

I'll post it the balance issue reports as I'm curious to hear why you do not think it's correct, as perhaps there's something I'm not seeing with these accessories

[drowsy plank]

armor penetration is, arguably, the single most polarizing stat in the game

[idle dagger]

You could also just explain it here yeah

[drowsy plank]

i mean that is the explanation

you were talking about the weak effect on large numbers but

consider a weapon with low damage but a high fire rate

think about how much 15 flat damage is on something like shredder or p90

[idle dagger]

isn't it 7.5 flat?

[drowsy plank]

https://tenor.com/view/community-ken-jeong-ben-chang-cant-see-small-gif-5154350

i have no fucking idea this explination doesnt actually help at all

i was going to go check to see if it was like life regen in that case but this is

incredibly hard to parse

[idle dagger]

this part

basically if the enemy has >15 defense and you have 15 armour penetration via reaper tooth necklace, damage is increased by half of armour pentration value
or 7.5, in this case

5 for sand shark

[drowsy plank]

well regardless, for the sake of making it easier, let's just round up

[idle dagger]

yeah i'm good with 8 lol

i think it rounds up anyway

[drowsy plank]

8 damage on a low damage weapon with a high fire rate and be a substantial boost

[idle dagger]

was going to ask if 6% damage increase or 5 flat damage per hit would be better on p90 but

lmfao ok

[drowsy plank]

exactly

[idle dagger]

yeah i can see why it's good on something like this

So it's a super niche accessory that's good for high fire rate weapons

[drowsy plank]

i mean
it's niche if you think there aren't a lot of high fire rate weapons in the mod but uh

yknow

[idle dagger]

Is there that much more than I expect?

[slim cairn]

Yeah like its surprisingly a lot

[idle dagger]

guh

[drowsy plank]

i mean

this is just what i can fit in a single screenshot for a single weapon subtype for a single class

[slim cairn]

Dont some flamethrowers count for that too?

[idle dagger]

I played ranger on my last playthrough and I didn't even know that there was this many

[drowsy plank]

tbf i just took the gun subclass bc i was on a page for a minishark upgrade anyway for this discussion

[slim cairn]

Ranger is weird because sometimes you gotta experiment a lot with weapons out of your confort zone imo

[idle dagger]

I guess that is hard to buff without absolutely making these weapons crazy good

[drowsy plank]

the fact the weapon combo is this iconic kind of makes a point about armor pierce

yeah

[slim cairn]

Because you will usually gravitate to the more cookie cutter stuff

And pass some great stuff

Even if they are good

[idle dagger]

Yeah there was a LOT to play with

it was also my first time playing ranger, ever

[slim cairn]

If you wanna have fun as a ranger you gotta experiment a bit imo

Otherwise its a bit boring compared to other classes

Of course thats how i see it at least

Cant claim its an objective truth

[idle dagger]

Thanks for the insight on these necklaces Cog

I like my time as ranger
I never played it in vanilla because I hated how little ranger unique accessories it had

[drowsy plank]

np

[slim cairn]

One day i should do a ranger run high fire rate only

It probably wont deviate too much from the normal path

[drowsy plank]

i mean not that calamity is great on that front either

but there are

DevPlans.jpeg

[idle dagger]

there's enough rn to make me feel like there's something

oho? more? cool

[slim cairn]

Hey at the very least, its more than mages

[drowsy plank]

i got uhhhhhhhh

[idle dagger]

I like deadshot and elemental quiver and quiver of nihility
those were all dope as hell

[drowsy plank]

flower in a vase

take it or leave it

nihility is awesome and very silly

[idle dagger]

don't mages have quite a bit

[slim cairn]

Not really actually

[idle dagger]

i guess it's actually just a variant of flower a bunch

[drowsy plank]

yeah

and you only use uh

one of those

[slim cairn]

They have some good stuff like chaos stone but its mostly flower variants

[drowsy plank]

chaos stone isnt even that good unless ur using

The Beams

[lucid marsh]

well known problem: ranger is 90% gun

[idle dagger]

mana polarizer
sigil of calamitas (and the celestial emblem before it)

[slim cairn]

True

[lucid marsh]

and the guns don't even have unique mechanics. I'd be very happy if it was 90% gun but each gun was cool and interesting

[slim cairn]

Id say its more even than you think imo, gun uniqueness is still an issue but i think devs are slowly trying to change that

[drowsy plank]

did you know mana polarizer's spectre healing orbs dont even reach far enough to heal you during WoF on average

[slim cairn]

From the tidbits we saw

[slim cairn]

YEP

[lucid marsh]

I am aware that there are plans to improve things, yeah

[slim cairn]

I DO KNOW THAT

[lucid marsh]

just saying, I guess

[slim cairn]

Bad way to learn it

[idle dagger]

That is. so miserable

[slim cairn]

Its ok no one is insulting you for saying it

I do hope it gets funnier over time to play gun ranger but at least its not atrocious

[drowsy plank]

i think it might've been fixed in a recent patch but

#suggestions-voting message

i haven't gone back to test it since this sugg

[slim cairn]

Honestly

Mana polarizer isnt really worth it imo

I tried so hard using it on my mage run

And it just ended biting me in the most annoying times

Instead of helping

[glass arch]

as a mage main no we do not

[lucid marsh]

would you like to hear my thoughts on mage again?

[glass arch]

we have the exact same accessory 10 times

no

[slim cairn]

What do you mean you dont like mana flower number 830?

[idle dagger]

i went to look and just realized it's just literally 1 line and then mana flower like 4 times

and mana polarizer and chaos stone

truly riveting

[glass arch]

mana polarizer chaos stone permafrosts concoction and mana flower x12

[slim cairn]

I find it so funny because weapon wise mages are very cool imo, but accessory wise they are so lacking

[idle dagger]

about to make a suggestion related to one of my favourite accessories the hand of creation

[dense ferry]

20th discussion about how Mage sucks

(We know. Everyone knows)

[glass arch]

20 is a lowball

[slim cairn]

I didnt say it sucked i like it

[dense ferry]

But you know what also sucks?

[glass arch]

20 is how many ive started

[dense ferry]

Reworking an entire class!

[slim cairn]

I just wish it had cooler accessories

But imo people overhate mage

[dense ferry]

I think it's easily the worst Class design-wise, both in Vanilla and Calamity

[glass arch]

dont even get me started on mage damage

[lucid marsh]

see, I have an incredibly simple way to rework mage that vastly improves it, even if it is not a permanent thing, it makes things way better

[dense ferry]

But everyone knows that, and everyone agrees with that

However, as I like to put it

[lucid marsh]

simply remove the mana flower effect from all mage accessory upgrades

[dense ferry]

Calamity's job is not to fix Vanilla's bad decisions

[glass arch]

its damage is only bad because its actually balanced and no other class is 🥹

[lucid marsh]

and replace it with mana cloak

[dense ferry]

If we try to, we will be stuck here forever trying to fix our problems and theirs

[glass arch]

ah yes i too will incentivize getting hit on one of the glassiest classes

[dense ferry]

We could just remove Mana Flower's effect and replace it with nothing

[glass arch]

that would be the best option

[dense ferry]

Granted, I personally would quite simply go the route of just

Reworking Mana Flower

[glass arch]

still not great but its one hell of a step better than current

[dense ferry]

Quite literally just

Overwrite its current function

Mana Flower is the one Vanilla problem I am entirely on board with fixing because it also affects us

Mage being a bad class (mostly because Mana Flower exists) makes so almost no one wants to rework Mage items

[lucid marsh]

see, here's the thing

you could do more with the base idea of mana cloak's mechanic

you could make it spawn stars in other circumstances too

[dense ferry]

That's part of "fixing Vanilla's problems"

[lucid marsh]

well, hold on

[dense ferry]

We could do a lot more about a lot of things Vanilla does

[lucid marsh]

you said you want to remove mana flower

[dense ferry]

Someone once suggested me to completely redo Corruption's world generation

[glass arch]

remove the auto use mana potions

[lucid marsh]

yes

[misty lichen]

the problem is mana potions instead of mana flower

[dense ferry]

Yes, it sucks, I hate Corruption's world generation, there is a reason I pick Crimson 90% of the time and Corruption only when I want to fight Hive Mind

[misty lichen]

auto chug inherently is not a good ability isnce you can just bind it to a mouse key and click that once every like 8 seconds for the same performance

[lucid marsh]

mana flower would not exist if mana potions didn't exist, true

[misty lichen]

mana potions having extremely little drawback is the issue

[lucid marsh]

mandatory chaos stone effect

[dense ferry]

I feel like they should instead massively boost your mana regeneration for a few seconds and have a longer cooldown

[lucid marsh]

make mana potions larger than the base size inflict both mana burn and mana sickness

[dense ferry]

200% mana regen buff for 10 seconds every 30 seconds or something

[lucid marsh]

or better, add a variety of effects for ways to get mana

[dense ferry]

(Random numbers that I conjured this is probably not balanced in the slightlest lmao)

But you get my point

[lucid marsh]

adding these things would not be that hard I think

[dense ferry]

You forget the part that reworking Mana inherently means "reworking Mage"

Just like reworking Ammo means reworking Ranger

Or reworking Stealth means reworking Rogue

[lucid marsh]

yes, and I think that is fine

[dense ferry]

Fine? Yes, but you are not considering the massive endeavor that would be put into this

[lucid marsh]

small changes can have large consequences while still being good

that's why I suggested the whole "remove mana flower from mage accessories" thing

its the easiest improvement to make that has this kind of effect

players can use regular mana flower if they want it, and give up an extra accessory slot for it

[dense ferry]

Again, you are not considering how we could handle these "consequences"

Yes, removing Mana Flower is an easy change. Yes, it would dramatically change how the class works

The point is exactly that the effects would be so far-reaching it would throw the entire Class into disarray unless we checked every instance of what it affected

[lucid marsh]

alright, that's completely fair

...I think I have actually done a mage playthrough without mana potions once

it was fun IIRC

in calamity, I mean

[drowsy plank]

honestly it would be incredibly funny
if cal did something a la the minecraft combat snapshots

and did the exact mage changes we discussed

and just let people see how they felt

no changes to weapons immediately, just a sort of public beta test of the idea

[fossil mural]

Summoner rebalance is already a layer of hell

Don't give them mage rebalance hell too

[drowsy plank]

it would be in a separate mod obviously, one dependant on cal, presumably

but just getting to see it and outsourcing the majority of the "gameplay feel" part to the community would be interesting at the very least

the summoner rebalance is different because vanilla already dictated what the playstyle should be

this would be uncharted waters, honestly

[lucid marsh]

I would love that

please do

[idle dagger]

I love the hand of creation so much

[golden sonnet]

mention toolbelt in the sugg too please

oh wait

nvm

[idle dagger]

it's in there dw

[golden sonnet]

I missed it cuz the parenthesis

[slim cairn]

I think mana pots just punishing you more would not solve anything either

[novel belfry]

oh? people are discussing a mana rework, eh?

[slim cairn]

Would likely make mages more hateable than they already are

[novel belfry]

if only i didnt have homework... 😭

[slim cairn]

And people really do dogpile on them already

[dense ferry]

I don't agree with this either, I just think they should be Different

Again, I think they should massively boost mana regeneration for a short period of time under a longer cooldown

[slim cairn]

Thatd be interesting

But yeah mages are sorta

[drowsy plank]

calamity mage combat test when...,.,...

[slim cairn]

You gotta balance the potions, the damage and the mana flower/pots sort of at the same time

[drowsy plank]

this is gonna be one of those things im gonna be thinking about for a while until something happens with mage lmao

[slim cairn]

If you try to tackle each issue in a void it will just feel eh imo

[dense ferry]

Mages in literally every single game are the glass cannons, the damage dealers, the burst fuckers

And I want to apply this to Cal

Mage becoming an inherently complex class with the highest damage output if you can manage it all

[slim cairn]

That would make it really interesting honestly

I already like mage weapon wise despite the flaws it has

[dense ferry]

Granted, I know this isn't everyone's favorite cup of tea

My answer?

[frail fox]

Mage is basically glass cannon but instead of being complex you just emblem and alcohol stack

[slim cairn]

Have you tried not g-
(Im joking)

[dense ferry]

Equipping Mana Flower just gives you the old Mana system

Mana Flower is everything wrong with Mage, but at the same time some people like that

Everyone who likes current Mage, likes it because of Mana Flower, an accessory you can acquire extremely early into the game

So, if you want it back? Just go get Mana Flower. You wouldn't be playing without it anyways

The only problem with this is uh

This basically means Mage would become two classes

[idle dagger]

finally, mage and true mage

[willow widget]

spam and stealth mage

[dense ferry]

But I think this could be fixed if

Mage instead relied on external buffs

And equipping Mana Flower removed those buffs

So you'd just be removing the complexity (and therefore the higher damage) in exchange for simplicity

[slim cairn]

Thatd be at least cool yeah

Would it need more attention on manually using mana pots if you want to use it to the full potential? Yeah

But at the same time it would not punish you

Actively punishing the player for interacting with a core mechanic is just extremely lame to me

[dense ferry]

Yeah no, I believe Mage would still be viable even if you chose to not interact with its mechanics whatsoever

But if you did, your damage would be bonkers

[slim cairn]

Yeah i mean more the idea that potions should punish you more that one person suggested earlier

Im looking forward to see how mage will be tackled though

[dense ferry]

I did have another idea about how

Instead of Mana being ammo, it would be a reinforcement

So if you had full mana, you'd deal 100% more damage

With it dwindling as you exhausted it

Therefore, the goal would be to always keep your Mana as high as possible to get essentially double damage

[dense locust]

me rebinding quick mana to m1

[dense ferry]

I'd obviously do something about Mana Potions

Again, I think they should have a cooldown, not a punishment

[glass arch]

actually there is a weapon that does this

or at least there was a weapon that did that

[royal tapir]

Still is

Ion Blaster and Apoctosis Array

Similar concept

[glass arch]

yeah i couldnt for the life of me remember what it was called

[dense ferry]

Maybe an accessory could give you this, tho

[wide river]

See none of these issues are in Spider Solitaire for Windows

[sleek turret]

finally

[lucid marsh]

but what if I like how current mage plays without mana potions? pausing attacking to build up power and then do a big burst when the time is right and the boss is in a convenient spot? Or getting my attack capability back if I get hit?

[fossil mural]

thats rogue stealth with extra steps

[slim cairn]

Maybe add that as a set of weapons/an accessory?

[lucid marsh]

but...

that's not the same

that's worse

[slim cairn]

You cant really do that rn either way tbh, not in a wsy that doesnt make it already worse

[lucid marsh]

huh... I didn't think about it this way. My favorite and least favorite classes are kind of... the same

[slim cairn]

Id suggest a buffed version of that in case of an accessory

[lucid marsh]

worse doens't matter to me, fun matters to me. I played the game this way before and it felt fair, although it may have been weaker.

well, it does matter, just not that much to me

[slim cairn]

Like an accessory that gives you a manw surge

Where your attacks are buffed but your mana usage has to be managed that way

[lucid marsh]

that is how mage already works if you simply never use a mana potion and have mana regen potions instead

[slim cairn]

Except its not really a burst

You still attack the same way a mage does

Just incredibly slower after that

[lucid marsh]

its not really that much slower

mana regen potions are just that strong

you stop attacking for like a second or two, and also you don't get the damage penalty that you get from mana potions

[slim cairn]

that strong

Mage is the weakest class

Pick your poison

[lucid marsh]

I mean relative to not using them

[slim cairn]

I mean yeah but at least turning into an accessory would allow you and others to use it this way and the devs to change mage

[lucid marsh]

I guess so

[slim cairn]

Not that the devs need to do this of course its just a what if

[slim cairn]

Plus it would look cool if you looked like you had a mana surge wouldnt it

[lucid marsh]

that said, I think mage would be fine if this was the main way of playing it

[slim cairn]

Thats for you though

You did say "i think" so yeah you acknowledge that

[lucid marsh]

I also think that a large number of other people would come to enjoy it

[slim cairn]

They would need quite a few changes still for this way of playing to be enjoyable imo

[lucid marsh]

it is already enjoyable for me

[slim cairn]

If they just removed regen pots thatd just suck

Lol

[lucid marsh]

huh? regen pots make it good

[slim cairn]

For you maybe, but people literally just dogpile on mage

To this day

[lucid marsh]

ok yeah fair

[novel belfry]

Okay im done

[slim cairn]

Im not even saying mage is bad btw

I played mage after summoner

And still liked it

[novel belfry]

Make accessories that are counterintuitive to use with mana flower and pots

[slim cairn]

But doing that and not giving mage anything else would just

Sorta bury mage forever

In the eyes of everyone else

Specially outside of bossing

[novel belfry]

the only reason why i would not delete mana flower is Last Prism

[slim cairn]

Can you imagine exploring with those limitations?

[slim cairn]

Or farming

Event farming while having to wait for your mana to fill up

It would be a bit annoying

[novel belfry]

i remembered also mentioning FFXIV Black Mage's very funny mana mechanic

[slim cairn]

Kills you

[novel belfry]

i personally think its probably the most interesting usage of mana in a video game i've seen in a while

[slim cairn]

Ok i did the joke you may proceed

I played black mage for a bit but i forgot how the mana was used

[novel belfry]

theres two stances basically. umbral ice and astral fire

[slim cairn]

It was like elemental buffs right? Where you used a certain ammount of x element it changed your attacks, or was that something else?

[novel belfry]

astral fire makes your mana costs increased significantly, but buffs damage of fire spells

[slim cairn]

Oh yeah, ice buffed your regen and fire your damage right

[novel belfry]

the mana cost part is also important too

[slim cairn]

True

[lucid marsh]

that's where the mana cloak comes in. Free mana from the slightest hit. As soon as you run out of mana and something touches you, you then get it all back and can keep going.

[novel belfry]

as you level up theres a lot more complexity but thats the gist

[lucid marsh]

that combined with the second or two to refil your mana normally and you're fine

[slim cairn]

That would not be that viable for farming considering enemies at that point of progression, at least pumpkings, mourning woods, ice queens and the likes

Can chunk you

Specially after they get buffed post DoG

Can you imagine having to deal with that

[novel belfry]

im wondering about a mage rework mod that would be based around black mage's mana stuff

[slim cairn]

With post DoG ice queen damage?

Like, really?

[novel belfry]

or even just an accessory (or two)

[slim cairn]

Mage would be the worst class to do anything other than bossing and even then if they kept current mage and just removed pots

[novel belfry]

again, i think its better to test this out in an addon mod first to see if this would work

[slim cairn]

Itd be the worst class for bossing as well lol

Like what would encourage others to use mage?

The cloak is also extremely counter intuitive

For boss fights

[novel belfry]

why doesnt mana cloak also combine with the celestial cuffs

they both in some way grant mana when damaged

[slim cairn]

Oh yeah, getting hit, with the objectively squishiest class

In the game

[novel belfry]

that said yeah

[slim cairn]

That sounds like a good idea huh

Imagine trying to balance that out on phase 2 DoG

Trying to kill it fast enough so you dont get pelted by laser walls

But you cant just take hits lol

Its like a quarter of your hp minimum

[lucid marsh]

then dodge for the 2 seconds required to get your mana back?

[slim cairn]

Might be fun for you but it wouldnt be fun for most people considering how they feel about mage rn

[slim cairn]

Itd still be objectively the worst class for that

[lucid marsh]

the getting hit thing is mainly for the weaker enemies

[slim cairn]

Because

[lucid marsh]

then buff the damage of mage

[slim cairn]

Every other class can just

Keep hitting

[slim cairn]

Finally at least its something

[lucid marsh]

like really its not that hard imo

[slim cairn]

Im not saying its hard im saying it would absolutely not make people gravitate towards mage without any positive changes

Thats what i was trying to make you understand

Buffing the damage is something at least

[lucid marsh]

Ok, I can understand that

But other people also love rogue when it does something similar

[slim cairn]

Rogue literally has a damage and crit buff

For not attacking for a bit

And its not small either later on

And people absolutely shit on rogue too

To this day

Saying rogue sucks (even though they are objectively wrong)

But yeah your example is already disingenuous

Considering rogue gets massive bonuses

For not spamming

At least later on

Plus, attacks change

Its not just a you dont attack for a bit so you can attack normally

[lucid marsh]

I haven't actually played rogue because I don't think it should have ever existed in the first place, but I can see what you mean

[novel belfry]

Rogue is cool because stealth strike = big damage
magic weapons dont have that same feelin

there theres my braindead opinion

[slim cairn]

But yeah the thing with rogue is the payoff for not attacking

If your payoff is just.....attacking normally

That wont please almost anyone

I am glad we are on the same page now though

[novel belfry]

this is also why people love black mage. despite being a weird dps class it's also intended to do a fuck ton of dps with those Astral Fire 3 Fires IV

it does big damage

also warrior, despite that apparently doing the lowest overal dps among tanks, still has a satisfying burst phase

[slim cairn]

Charge blade in mh

Not really the same but you have to build your combo to deal amazing damage

Otherwise its mediocre

[novel belfry]

point is, rogue is satisfying because it feels like you're doing big bursts of damage

[slim cairn]

Yeah

[novel belfry]

mage isnt because it's mostly a normal class

ranger with a different ammo

[steep patrol]

Weird suggestion

[ripe owl]

@manic shadow allow me to introduce you the Calamity Community Remix

[manic shadow]

:O

no. flipping. way

what if it was added to the officail mod as an april fools joke, that would be silly

anyways, tank you greatly Zavarski

[distant gyro]

id miss the point to have the content officially acknowledged in any capacity greater than tiny references

you are not meant to go into fandom

that drives site traffic which is exactly what is wanted from a greedy company with their own self-interest valued over their users

the fandom shitpost was a product of war and not silly

silly is a side product though

[manic shadow]

Make love, not war! ♥️

I prefer qol mods over the wiki anyways, but thats a whole lotta lore I have to dig into

[distant gyro]

welp. peace was not an option when they did not honour any requests to delete the cal fandom wiki and asserted that their (at times morally questionable) SEO gathering would be why people would prefer it

[ripe owl]

Something something iirc Fandom requires the developers to bust their house and tell them to delete the wiki in order to... Delete the wiki

[median scaffold]

Something, something, don't delete Fandom Calamity wiki and instead make a new one on wiki.gg, blah-blah, the content is pretty intertaining to read

[ripe owl]

No

[median scaffold]

Delete all the Wikis

[manic shadow]

is the infurnum mod seperate on purpose?

[ripe owl]

Shitpost should not be promoted

[median scaffold]

Wdym?

[ripe owl]

It is separate because it's not official

[manic shadow]

i see

[ripe owl]

And it never ever was

[gaunt needle]

Beat the "Terraria is a wiki game" allegations

[median scaffold]

The only official addons are Calamity Mod Music and VCMM

[manic shadow]

infurnum def fooled me

[distant gyro]

i mean i think itd go full circle if the current fandom is forked into wiki.gg as a fan ideas wiki so that fandom is left clueless again

[ripe owl]

I guess

But still

[median scaffold]

One of the Infernum devs was a Calamity dev a long time ago, ig

[ripe owl]

A long*

[median scaffold]

My bad

[manic shadow]

do i have gif perms anywhere in this server

[median scaffold]

Microwave your soup, please

[ripe owl]

Doesn't mean that it's official

[median scaffold]

Mostly, no

You need to send the file itself, not the link

[ripe owl]

Yes but don't abuse it

[median scaffold]

Yeah, if that would be the logic, Fanny should be added to the Calamity Mod

[manic shadow]

im so confuesed

[ripe owl]

What's the confusion?

[manic shadow]

I'm gonna trust you, cause you are "untouchable"

[ripe owl]

That's nothing, it's just a nohitting role

[manic shadow]

what did you no hit?

[median scaffold]

Bosses?

[manic shadow]

specifically :p

[ripe owl]

Yes

[median scaffold]

Actually, I want to see your no-hits

[manic shadow]

oh wait, boss rush?

[ripe owl]

No

Just bosses

[manic shadow]

BORING

[ripe owl]

You're boring

[manic shadow]

:c

[ripe owl]

Boeing

[median scaffold]

I wanted to make "Jack of All Trades Boss Rush" no-hit

[ripe owl]

Wait for your turn

[median scaffold]

That thing sounded funny

[manic shadow]

can I get a role for getting hit by everything and still living, "touchable"

[median scaffold]

Huh? Wdym?

[ripe owl]

No, it's a legacy role

[ripe owl]

Current BR is super not fun

I'm struggling at doing it normally, and you want to nohit it

[manic shadow]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-stare-orange-stewly-gif-14193106288143001787

I have no roles

[median scaffold]

That's fair, actually
I wanted to use my secret knowledge of being a tester and do the first no-hit of a certain boss

[ripe owl]

Anyway

[median scaffold]

I have 1, because, uhh... I made some edits on the wiki

[ripe owl]

We've gotten too off-topic

[median scaffold]

Yeah

[ripe owl]

You just asked, simple as that

[median scaffold]

What's the topic, actually?

[ripe owl]

Suggestions

In general

[manic shadow]

shitposts as an april fools mod

[median scaffold]

Which one specifically?

[median scaffold]

I need some context for this message

[ripe owl]

Nothing specific anymore

[ripe owl]

You don't

Just let it go

[median scaffold]

[ripe owl]

(also it's prohibited by the rules of this channel)

[median scaffold]

I'm not Permafrost to do that

[median scaffold]

Well, can't say anything against it, sad

[manic shadow]

I jsut read the rules, what is a whip discusion ;-;

[median scaffold]

"KALEIDOSCOPE IS PERFECTLY BALANCED"
"NO, IT ISN'T"
Etc.

[manic shadow]

so opinions?

[ripe owl]

No

Not that

[ripe owl]

And not that either

[median scaffold]

Silly pumpkin mode activated

[ripe owl]

Things like "Whips belong to melee" or "Whips are unbalanced and shouldn't exist in the first place", things like that

It was all over the place when 1.4 came out

[manic shadow]

OOH

[gaunt needle]

What about "whips are awesome addition to summoner"?

[manic shadow]

I thought whips was like an accronym lol

[ripe owl]

That's based

[median scaffold]

I think that's also under the rule?

[manic shadow]

did calamity mod add any whips?

[ripe owl]

Not yet

[median scaffold]

Aerolite whip is planned

[ripe owl]

But there always will be people who'll try to argue otherwise, so

[median scaffold]

As well as profaned and probably auric-tier ones

[ripe owl]

Better not play with fire

[gaunt needle]

Profaned whip from that dev accessory (technically)

[median scaffold]

I wouldn't say that really counts, at least, now...

[ripe owl]

Anyway

Order! Order! Order!

[median scaffold]

Waiter, waiter! Destroy summoner in SSO, please!

I still think about Fearmonger becoming whip-focused

[lucid marsh]

Whips are an awesome addition to summoner and they just need a few little adjustments 🙂

(anyways I will not continue this further)

[slim cairn]

You can only make war with fandom scumbags (the owners of the site itself)

Sorry

And they deserve every single bit of it

[lucid marsh]

This attitude really does not help anything. Some people will never be good and will just hurt others if you don't fight them.

It is a good stance in certain circumstances

But not this one

[gray bone]

#suggestions-posting message third point seems like it should be in #1178515062030348308

[silver harness]

I just wanted to place it in one post.

[north oracle]

yeah, only the 2nd part of this should be here
the true melee tag should be in bug reports (i believe), and any balance issues should be in balance reports

[steep patrol]

Inferna cutter,ultimus cleaver and mushroom spear is truely true melee weapon of all time

[silver harness]

Old lord claymore moment.

[lucid marsh]

I forget, does the whole weapon have to count as either true melee or not?

Or can the part you swing count as true melee and the projectiles count as false melee?

I would think the second way is better

[steep patrol]

True melee weapon deal true melee damage

[silver harness]

First one.

[lucid marsh]

That seems kinda lame

[manic shadow]

Ok

[sullen mica]

"whips belong to melee" like yeah we're just gonna add that into the swords flails boomarangs yoyos and spears

wait wy do the fake brains of cuthulu shoot real projectiles 💀

[violet zephyr]

Fun fact: there are melee, ranger and rogue javelins.

[golden sonnet]

what one is ranger?

oh

bone javelin

vanilla moment

[fossil finch]

Its a calamity moment actually

Both terraria javelins are ranged

guess you could say daybreak is one but it's not called one so it can simply be called a unique spear

[golden sonnet]

daybreak is 100% a jeavelin

and scourge of the corruptor

[violet zephyr]

Bold of you to assume I was talking about Daybreak.

[fossil finch]

fuck its on the tooltip

Still though its rogue's problem it calls one if its weapon types a CLEARLY ranger/melee weapon

[golden sonnet]

class identity isn't real and never has been

[errant wren]

the solution is to make every subclass into its own full class

[golden sonnet]

throwing a flask? mage weapon. throwing a spear? ranger or melee,

[neat linden]

okay but there are melee, ranger, mage and rogue throwing knives

[golden sonnet]

yeah good point, vanilla has throwing knives for 3 classes

[fossil finch]

All that means is that throwing knives damage is defined by its magical properties

[neat linden]

and that consistency in weapon types isn't real and was never real

and will never be real

[fossil finch]

its okay

A class is not defined by the name of the weapon but by its design

And also by the damage class because all throwing knives work the exact same way

This is why rogu

[misty lichen]

is crystalline not magical

it creates extra matter at will

[fossil finch]

yes but its magical properties make it a rogue weapon

Magic dagger uses mana so its mage

quite shrimple

[misty lichen]

https://tenor.com/view/drake-yachty-censored-not-drake-tech-support-gif-8658410013845332703

[drowsy plank]

we did it everybody, we solved terraria

[violet zephyr]

But how will this affect the drone racing community?

[umbral gazelle]

it will effect seagull for sure

[median scaffold]

Drones are summoners

[median scaffold]

No

[wide river]

@gaunt glacier The easter egg was removed for a reason, it will not be coming back

[gaunt glacier]

I was fun

[median scaffold]

If you want "that" easter egg, just download Calamity Overh*ul (will kill your game in a seconds)

[golden sonnet]

If you want to kill every boss in 10 seconds just cheat in an endgame weapon

It's the same result

[median scaffold]

Tbf, Murasama wasn't an endgame weapon, but the same execution

Also, I want to know about your nickname, Sebaxiam

[gaunt glacier]

Also the murasama is held improperly

[median scaffold]

Wdym by that?

[weary bane]

i think they downloaded one of those weapon holding mods and expected it to work

[gaunt glacier]

WHO TF HOLD THEIR SWORD ON THE BLADE?!

[median scaffold]

Oh

That's not an issue with base Calamity

[median scaffold]

^

[golden sonnet]

Yeah that's another mod you have

[median scaffold]

Also, samurai usually do, iirc

[gaunt glacier]

I think it still shows with regular calamity

[median scaffold]

No?

[weary bane]

you never hold weapons with only base cal

[gaunt glacier]

Idk man, I'm not worthy

[hollow shell]

I thought maybe he meant the slash animation but no that has a rendered and correctly placed handle now

[hollow shell]

weaponout / armamentdisplay issue

[median scaffold]

Welp, that's reasonable

Usually these mods don't test every weapon out there

[drowsy plank]

im just going to delete this

almost joke sugg level so no reason to leave it up

[novel belfry]

i think the handle appearing in the slash animation harms the animation more

it just makes it look like the sword is flying away from you

[graceful vapor]

what does categorising a debuff as a sickness debuff even do?

[golden sonnet]

allows it not only be more effective or less effective based on the enemies weakness/resistance, but also to be amplified by certain items the player can use

[graceful vapor]

since when do enemies have weaknesses and resistances

[golden sonnet]

calamity 1.5.1.1/march 2022

[echo leaf]

The debuff resistance system is great

[sullen mica]

me when i say everything that gets removed is a ass idea and should enver be thought of again and also it sucks and yeah did I tlel you it sucks

[drowsy plank]

are you trying to be stupid on purpose

no ur right i should remove good ideas????

sorry i dont think "readd jetstream sam easter egg" is exactly a galaxy brain suggestion

[sullen mica]

idk why removing easter eggs is a bad thing

[violet zephyr]

It was a bad easter egg, thats why it was removed.

[drowsy plank]

i really dont want to have this conversation again, you could try scrolling up and actually reading people who discussed the suggestion earlier

the main point is that it added literally nothing to the game and was the equivalent of just grabbing an endgame weapon with cheat sheet

furthermore it is not going to be reimplemented because it was removed for a reason

[sullen mica]

didn't someone else said that in the pervious conversation before 😭

[drowsy plank]

probably, but you clearly didn't read it considering you were still asking why i deleted it, and i was saying i was restating why it wasn't happening anyway, if you read what i said

[grave zinc]

@umbral gazelle - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Change Acid Tornado name]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@hallow kraken - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Integrate Mysterious Circuitry and Dubious Plating into one item]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@hollow verge - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make Old Duke Summoner deal no damage]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[hollow verge]

they both passed

[wide river]

What if they both got hit with the "neither accepted nor denied"

[wet canyon]

exactly, the game barely acknowledges that it exists

[ripe owl]

Bestiary

[wet canyon]

yeah, i think that is the only place that the entire mechanic is mentioned

i mean, its not that hard to tell which debuff falls into which category (wow, plague is a sickness buff, who wouldve guessed) but for ones like Galvanic Corrosion and Nightwither, it can be a little bit harder to tell.

[misty lichen]

should also be in a loading screen tip fairly commonly

[wet canyon]

i did not realize there was a loading tip for it

[crude geode]

Loading screen tip isn’t exactly the most reliable

[wet canyon]

Exactly. Sure, it informs about the mechanic, but it shows up on random chance, and only when you're loading a world.

[echo leaf]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/225030931008847874/1273672957994209362/Mini_swarmer.gif

[novel belfry]

once again, I am asking for the Dragonfolly to be renamed

[misty lichen]

isnt this the 4th time

if you have to try this many times it’s not happening

[wet canyon]

since they are 'impure' descendants of dragons, i think it kinda makes sense why people called them "follies"

[fossil finch]

we'd laugh in the bad way if we summoned folly and he was called Drake of Paradise

Dragonfolly is fine we think

[echo leaf]

I like the name Dragonfolly but I'm open to other thoughts

[novel belfry]

I dunno, they’re apparently still pretty strong even for dragon descendants

I don’t know why these goofs have to be called the folly

[steep patrol]

Dragonfellas

[echo leaf]

Dragons are so strong that even the fuckups can kick someone's shit in

[steep patrol]

But even after the name change i think most of the ppl in community would still call it by same name similar case for AEW and even bumbilebird name still pop up sometimes

[fossil finch]

Folly can mean Foolish/Stupid/Rash we think we can pretend that's fitting

[north oracle]

People are going to call it bumblefuck no matter what it's actual name is

[olive saddle]

im going to bumblepunt the bumblefuck

[dense locust]

p is too far away on the keyboard aews name change was destined to be ignored

[novel belfry]

People still call Scal supreme calamitas, even though now she’s the Supreme Witch, Calamitas

[ripe owl]

Nowhere does the lore say that

[dense ferry]

Dragonfolly still works, mind you

It's a Draconic Offshoot. By all means, an incomplete Dragon :p

Yes, a lot others exist, but that can be simply justified by Folly having been the first to be discovered and thus being named like that

The name just stuck afterwards

[novel belfry]

Blegh

even then, it feels a bit oddly specific

it’s also just a relic title

like it’s just attempting to justify an outdated title

(I’m not going to even get into my opinion that dragonfolly became way less interesting with the lore rework, now it’s just another strong animal)

(that’s a discussion for another time)

[umbral gazelle]

"We removed Old Duke"

[slim cairn]

I didnt like bumblebird ngl

[median scaffold]

That is... an idea, for sure
I quite like it, actually, but I think it'll go under "too much effort" category

Also, Silenced exists (it shouldn't)

[hollow shell]

... huh

Weird suggestion

Creative, I'll give it that

Not something I've ever thought of.

[median scaffold]

And... why does Weak debuff decrease practically only melee damage?

[median scaffold]

Maybe some other debuffs should affect other classes (specifically ranger and rogue)?

[ashen warren]

Fun fact: the original Diablo 2 Mana Burn was bugged to deal 256 times more mana damage than normal due to a bug in the code

[median scaffold]

I think mage shouldn't be punished this much

[steep patrol]

iirc thy will remove the melee speed nerf

[median scaffold]

That's nice, tbh

[gaunt needle]

calamity should add mana shield tbh

[steep patrol]

217 - The Weak debuff no longer decreases melee speed. - Done planned for 2.0.4.004

[ashen warren]

EXACTLY!

[median scaffold]

...uhh, wdym?

[gaunt needle]

reducing some amount of damage by using mana

[median scaffold]

Ah

I thought about it restoring mana, but nvm

[gaunt needle]

not sure how exactly that would work considering mana potions exist

[median scaffold]

You said some, not all the damage

[gaunt needle]

I mean how would you stop other classes from using mana shield as yet another tanking option?

[median scaffold]

Maybe it could be tied to magic damage% / mana cost%?
The more damage you have, the less mana it takes to "tank" the damage

[median scaffold]

I wanted to make a Flower Pot-alternative, really
Maybe you could restore your mana fully once every 6 seconds with some damage buffs, for example?

[ashen warren]

In Diablo 2, Energy Shield has a synergy with Telekinesis. For each hard point in Telekinesis, you lose 0.0625 less mana per hit. At level 20 Telekinesis, you lose 0.75 mana per damage

[ashen warren]

Maybe it should be a ratio of 3 mana per HP, while you lose 0.03 less mana per magic damage%?

[fossil finch]

Crying

[echo leaf]

Aww, there, there!

It’s okay to be sad.

[median scaffold]

Eat this pumpkin

Feel the emptiness of your mind

[fossil finch]

this corpo plant can't ease our mind

[hollow verge]

funniest result ngl.

[drowsy plank]

@ashen warren this is mostly implementation with no explanation, so im flagging it

it's also just a miserable idea, but that's a whole 'nother discussion

fuck silenced all my homies hate silenced

[ashen warren]

I can agree. This is, without a doubt, one of the most annoying things that was posted in the suggestions channel.

[silver harness]

Dragonbirb

[drowsy plank]

lmao uh
weird response tbf but yeah you dont really explain why this should exist beyond "providence can heal you" which is. not a reason at all, and most of the rest of your suggestion is implementation, which you should avoid explaining, because the point is to focus on the why not the what

[ashen warren]

The only place where it can reasonably fit is in getfixedboi

[drowsy plank]

yeah

also like. mana burn already exists as a debuff too?? for chaos stone

so that also does not look great

this is again why the focus for suggestions should be why they should be added and not how, because this can cause conflicts with devplans.jpeg

[ashen warren]

Anyway, I'll delete it, because it would make regular Calamity actually unfair

[echo leaf]

I remember hearing that the devs have plans for mage as a whole

[drowsy plank]

yeah no need to nerf the weakest class lmao

[ashen warren]

ranger is the weakest

[fossil finch]

we dread the mana rework

its okay nobody plays ranger

shhhh

[echo leaf]

There's no difference between ranger and mage

[fossil finch]

nobody has to care

[echo leaf]

They're the same class

[fossil finch]

untrue and lame to say

[drowsy plank]

that's hilariously wrong

[fossil finch]

prikki l we're afraid

the good thing is that nobody plays ranger so we dont have to care

[echo leaf]

https://tenor.com/view/beamng-die-crash-nonsense-gif-25427845

[drowsy plank]

right now they basically are

[ashen warren]

they're actually right. mage and ranger have some form of currency needed to fire their weapons(mana or ammo)

[drowsy plank]

wow i sure love shooting weapon that has a consumable resource but i have a next to unlimited amount of it so it has next to no bearing on gameplay whatsoever

[echo leaf]

Point and click adventure

[fossil finch]

L reductionism

[drowsy plank]

at least ranger gets to mix it up sometimes

[fossil finch]

ultra L reductionism

[sand marlin]

Ah yes the vocal minority

[echo leaf]

Sorry I forgot to mention point-blank damage which ranger at least gets to play with occasionally

[drowsy plank]

no this is hilarious please tell me how they are different in any way based on how the majority of people use them right now (spamming mana pots)

[fossil finch]

if that were true we'd have gotten 3 ranger rebalances solely on pbs

we're so glad pbs aren't relevant however so

not complaining there

[echo leaf]

I have never seen this user say anything positive

[drowsy plank]

this is true prikki

[fossil finch]

if u want us to say something positive we can say we like the latest weapon reworks

theyre cute

helium flash is awesome

its almost like we only really dislike the layer of mechanical and balance changes calamity has which is most relevant for this channel's discussions!

[drowsy plank]

this is true

[ashen warren]

I feel that Ranger needs to also have something else going for it. In its current state, it's mediocre mechanically

[drowsy plank]

sure that's fair but you never try to engage with the discussion in good faith, you usually just throw out some comment about how most mechanical changes by cal should just be removed with no reasoning, and it has gotten to the point people have complained about it, but it's not really breaking any rules so we just

didnt do anything

[sand marlin]

I'm gonna be honest if you took away mana pots the majority of people would absolutely despise it. Like yeah make mana more interesting and whatever but do remember that the option is there for a reason. A class not being able to attack when it needs to is one of the most frustrating things examplified by one of the worst debuffs in the game, or two, Cursed and Silenced. Heck it sucks to not be able to kill something when you run out of mana before you even get mana pots already

[echo leaf]

I think point blank damage and the varying ammo types are a decent way to add depth to a mechanically simple class. There's nothing wrong with simplicity, anyways

[fossil finch]

if this is true which like wdk neither of us have stats on how many people use regen vs mana pot spam its not really in calamity's place to fix and we have no trust they'd do it well

there's nothing wrong with simplicity but making ranger's alt damage mechanic being Melee Again is pretty

it is pretty dumb

it takes away from the whole point of like, Ranger

[ashen warren]

I just realised how stupid was my suggestion was. You must know when to get mana damage, otherwise you're fucked

[echo leaf]

Half of the melee weapons are Ranger 2 anyways, kinda moot point

[fossil finch]

so can we not make that worse actively?

[ashen warren]

Melee has true melee as a secondary mechanic

[fossil finch]

sure class distinctions aren't real but like

[drowsy plank]

true melee is not long for this world

[fossil finch]

why keep miscontruing it by adding True Melee to nearly all ranger weapons

[ashen warren]

We don't need true melee on the shooty things

The only place where point blank even fits is on shotguns

[sand marlin]

Eh point blank is not melee-like at all

I do admit point blank is a bit weird

[fossil finch]

we disagree with calamity's mechanical changes because they don't really do anything to fix the "problem" they attempt to fix outside of DD in which we just fundamentally disagree with the idea what it fixes is a problem in the first place

[sand marlin]

Because instead you could just make the weapon itself perform better closeup, like Hellborn or make ammo that perform better closeup, like Hailstorm. Examples like that are generally just better than point blank

But it doesn't have anything to do with melee

[fossil finch]

it does in the sense that melee, true or not rewards close up ness

[sand marlin]

Aggression based benefits are not melee's entire identity, it's like in every class

[fossil finch]

hitstyle one projectile swords still reward hitting the blade even if it isn't the point

[sand marlin]

It is not melee exclusive and has not been because every weapon performs better with aggression

[fossil finch]

aggresion doesn't necessarily have to be Get Closer

[sand marlin]

There are very few examples of the reverse

[sand marlin]

It's not always that, but majority of it is

[fossil finch]

this is also a big reason we dislike the mechanics here

pbs doesn't need to exist because you can just make weapons that reward gameplay like that

instead of trying to force it into every bow

and that is both more interesting and easier to deal with when balancing

[sand marlin]

Actually

I think most reworked weapons don't have point blank

So think of it like. Point blank occupying the space until they get their own aggression method

[fossil finch]

the same way we think itd be interesting if, instead of a Mana Rework, you just made mage weapons that favored regen over pots

or made pot consumption interesting (Chaos Stone)

[sand marlin]

Those are much better goals than just getting rid of mana potions I agree. Mana potions should be more punishing as they make it easier to use weapons without playing around mana much

[fossil finch]

because like, the way to work through the classes isn't changing their base mechanics because that's not really going to do anything interesting without an indepth rework to basically the entire class' equipment and weaponry

so instead its better to just

make weapons and equipment that

[silver harness]

I never used mana potions as mage lol.

[fossil finch]

favor playing in a more interesting way

[sand marlin]

But yeah it's like never a good idea to entirely take away a class's ability to defend itself when it's the most necessary

[fossil finch]

check wulfrum weapons all having little small ways to change up gameplay a little bit

[echo leaf]

we love wulfrum weapons

[fossil finch]

drones have a support mode, prosthesis has a mana regen option, shotgun has functional pbs because it is a shotgun and thus rewards being close

[gaunt needle]

Make mana pots give "artificial mana" which is seperate from your main mana bar and deals less damage/has less attack speed/overall less effective

[fossil finch]

screwdriver is a true melee weapon in functionality with a nice secondary projectile that rewards smart movement!

[drowsy plank]

and yet silenced and cursed still exist

[sand marlin]

Cursed is the most annoying because it's very common in dungeon as the according enemies literally bypass walls

So you can just get overrun

And also it blocks fucking hooks for some reason

[fossil finch]

the Biome Blade also rewards smart play through combinations and interesting weapon design

[drowsy plank]

they would be fine debuffs if they were actually on incredibly strong attacks, or ones designed to be highly punishing, but they're just tossed in like they're any other debuff

[fossil finch]

and the arks are a simple melee option that still rewards smart play through parrying

[ashen warren]

Don't we all love getting cursed? Cursed in itself is stupid. Why not do a debilitating effect that isn't stupid?

[sand marlin]

I do believe in general cal has been leaning towards the better goals, since well we did just see Hellborn rework and like... actually I don't remember anything else, that's my example for now

[fossil finch]

like the reason stealth feels so lame as a mechanic is because it is fundamentally tied to each stealth strikes and stealth strikes are, most of the time, More Projectile with nothing interesting added in! things can be simple and still reward smart gameplay!

[ashen warren]

Cursed can make using a weapon never crit or make the player deal 25% less damage(?)

[echo leaf]

Cursed disables weapons