suggestions-discussion

[floral yoke]

2020 was when it was requested though so lol

[wide river]

Which comes first
Yharim
OR
God Slayer Hoverboard

[royal tapir]

Silksong

[wide river]

Ture

[hollow idol]

well i havent actually added the DoG one yet if we’re being technical

[crude geode]

Silksong doesn’t exist CiT

It’s a mass hallucination by the hollow knight community

[proper granite]

im thinking about a suggestion where extra details are added to boss drops to make them more memorable and intuitively satisfying

like for example having astrum deus drop its fragments across the length of the body of the one that dies last which would be satisfying to collect and give the impression of how many youre getting

for like 99% of bosses it just spawns a pile of whatever loot the boss is supposed to drop at the center of the boss hitbox but some bosses have a lot of drops or just dump everything in the treasure bag

[novel belfry]

WHAT THE FUCK

WDYM TOUR STILL STRUGGLING WITH GS HOVERBOARD

[sleek turret]

Do a 1.2 or lower terraria mod version moment and pick Shroomite Hoverboard and recolor it to Cosmolite pallete and call it a day until someone decides to sprite the item for real

[novel belfry]

Or just use the fucking sprite

Slagsplitter originally had a shit sprite but someone quickly made a better sprite within days of its release

Or maybe I’m wrong

But again, you shouldn’t have to wait a bajillion years because you think the sprite isn’t good enough

[wide river]

There's been some stuff implemented with sprites that got very swiftly replaced, yes

However, as we can see by Grand Marquis Bait, that doesn't always happen

[novel belfry]

That’s because I’m pretty sure nobody has done the angler quests enough to even discover that calamity adds a new ultimate bait

So nobody knows that exists

[fossil finch]

yeah the reason grand marquis is still that is the fact nobody knows it exists

[royal tapir]

Grand Marquis Bait's sprite is completely intended what

It's meant to look like vanilla bait

[wide river]

Sorry, I wasn't intending to imply that it's a bad sprite

[royal tapir]

I know

[wide river]

I don't know where I was going with that point so if we could both forget I said anything that'd be cool

[fervent orbit]

what are the baits supposed to be

they just look like balls of matter

[royal tapir]

Good question!

[fossil finch]

ye

[novel belfry]

Anyways where were we

[wide river]

God Slayer Hoverboard

[fervent orbit]

i feel like the problem with the grand bait is that because it follows vanillas baits so well, its bad because of that

the problem is that the vanilla baits are bad

[novel belfry]

I think I was trying to say that the hoverboard legit doesn’t need a perfect sprite right now

[wide river]

That was in fact your point yes

[grave zinc]

@lavish condor - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Indicate that Expert is the intended Calamity experience on the world generation screen]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@umbral gazelle - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make the "first exo mechs" choice given to the player that made a contact instead of random player]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@worldly sparrow - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make Auric Ore launch golf balls]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[worldly sparrow]

yipee

[royal tapir]

real

[worldly sparrow]

187 votes jesus

i thought i was the only person who cared about terraria golf

[crude geode]

It’s the funny

Ofc people are gonna vote for it

[stone notch]

:)

[golden sonnet]

I sure wonder why this user replied to that message

[drowsy plank]

for fun, i think

[floral yoke]

I know why

[stone notch]

[novel belfry]

comedy

[umbral gazelle]

🐈👍

[wide river]

Didn't get scammed out of it passing this time

[keen ore]

i would really want to see calamity balance out stardust guardian

it has abysmal range and damage even for post-ml enemies and bosses

or maybe replacing it even

[umbral gazelle]

just give it ability to stop time

[keen ore]

fargo's souls

maybe i should type it

[grim tusk]

What?

[worldly sparrow]

sir its an armor set bonus

[keen ore]

it doesnt compare to other lunar set bonuses though

solar has free dash, vortex has extreme stat bonuses for exchange of horizontal speed, nebula has huge bonuses when fighting

SG cannot even attack profaned guardians sometimes because so little sight range

[novel belfry]

solar dash also grants damage reduction of 20%

when the shield is up

[keen ore]

nor can he fend off or help fighting post-ml enemies like scorn eater

[keen ore]

exactly

[novel belfry]

i guess the only issue with buffing SG is that uh stardust armor recently gained a bunch of other good stats

buffed whip range and 1 sentry slot

byeah regardless sg needs a buff

[keen ore]

or a rework/replacement

[novel belfry]

i dont know if this should be brought to #1178515062030348308 tho

[keen ore]

i had an idea to replace SG with passive small crit strike for minions like 1-3% (bit extreme though)

[dapper apex]

i think its boring....

guardian is more interesting

[keen ore]

making a mix between 1.3 and 1.4 SGs was other my idea

also because in 1.4 player cannot control its actions, it would make up for little range by being a placeable sentry and a minion

[drowsy plank]

solar and nebula are already recieving more nerfs next update

im pretty sure some of those are in #changelogs rn even

[keen ore]

fair enough, they are strong

[drowsy plank]

vortex already has some pretty hard nerfs so i think it's fine, and because of that i think stardust's set bonus is fine too

[keen ore]

he has less sight range than dark harvest's range and equal damage to it

[drowsy plank]

yeah and the armor's already really good

so we dont really need to buff the free minion much

[keen ore]

yeah, about that.......

[drowsy plank]

about what

are you implying stardust ISN'T incredibly strong??

[keen ore]

im implying SG has so little stats that he isnt efficient compared to other set bonuses
like at least reducing damage and increasing sight range would make him a passive normal minion, because thats how he was intended to be, isnt it?

[drowsy plank]

im not sure what he was intended to be, all im saying is stardust already has plenty of good stats that i dont think it's aching for buffs right now
i guess if you want to make a suggestion about making the guardian have more range in exchange for damage that would count as a proper suggestion because that's just up to preference, but i definetly dont think anything about the armor is "weak" right now

[keen ore]

armour itself is fine, no complaints

[novel belfry]

at least increase his range

[keen ore]

having a thing that deals 660 damage to anything on the screen imo is a little excessively buffed

[drowsy plank]

like i said you can post a sugg about it, since increasing his range in exchange for damage to make the minion feel better to use, that's fine because that's a preference thing

[keen ore]

and is free

[golden sonnet]

The whole identity of the minion is to stick close to protect you, and deal high damage and knockback when they get close. feels kinda contradictory to give it more range

[keen ore]

yeah but after ml bosses will most definitely stay out of his range for 90% of the time, and have armour

like a combat asset its not good

protection actually maybe so

[drowsy plank]

honestly thinking about it more now, most of the post-ML bosses actually DO stick pretty close to you
provi has no contact damage, polter is a close quarters fight, most of the distortion bosses are the same, yharon has his dashes, etc.

[sleek turret]

It requires you to play more aggresively as summoner which is a pain in the ass atleast for post-ML bosses I believe

[keen ore]

dunno about provi, but i needed fargo's mutant to make arena to go "dodgy-dodgy fun-fun" and always had to chase her to make SG do at least something

also whipping but thats a different thing

[sleek turret]

Whipping is an aggresive playstyle honestly

[keen ore]

not really if its just to throw in a buff

but like this yes

[sleek turret]

If you want to whip focus then yea it's aggresive

But if you're just for the tag then you can re apply it every 4 seconds

Between those 4 seconds you can probably forget about it or just relocate your sentries if you use them

[keen ore]

3 vortex lasers wholeheartedly agree

[sleek turret]

Is this sarcasm

I can't tell

[keen ore]

not really

they obliterate storm weaver, have single-targeting norm damage and crowd control

[sleek turret]

Vortex has long range but it's not that long either I think

[keen ore]

about a 2k screen range afaik

or just a normal screen

[sleek turret]

60 tile range

[keen ore]

wiki says just 60

still good, i like it

[sleek turret]

It's almost the same range as the OOA Flame sentry

(without OOA armor)

56.25 range

[keen ore]

so um

back to the topiK

SG def needs something

[drowsy plank]

again, i really dont think it does, but if you want it to have more range because you think that would make the minion more satisfying, then you can make a suggestion about it

[wide river]

(I'll be honest I forget Stardust Guardian exists sometimes)

[sleek turret]

I feel like it doesn't contribute to DPS as much as the other set bonuses

Vortex and Nebula for instance since I feel like Solar is more related to defense

[keen ore]

Solar just gives free accessory slot

which is huge

[sleek turret]

Probably

But we are talking about DPS output here

Solar Flare contributes by essentially dashing onto the enemy always if you want to have extra damage output to your alredy existing damage output

[keen ore]

agreed here

[sleek turret]

Vortex provides +40% damage and +15% crit chance at the cost of -33% movement speed

Nebula practically gives you stat bonuses for free which contribute for your total DPS and survivability (as well as mana regen but I think you alredy have insane mana regen at that point regardless)

[fervent orbit]

the mana regen works while attacking with weapons, so its more like mana reduction

[tender crater]

HUH?

[fervent orbit]

just means its better than actual mana regen

[tender crater]

Wait, it does???

[fervent orbit]

yea nebula be different like that

[golden sonnet]

This doesn't really explain the full picture, as it also reduces acceleration and dashing disables it

[sleek turret]

So TRAE mana regen system?

Except with current Cal mana system

[tender crater]

and yee vortex stealth is way harsher when it comes to movement penalties

[sleek turret]

Huh

[tender crater]

pretty sure the only reason it got nerfed in the first place was to weaken facetanking

but in terms of practicality in normal setups, there isn't much

[golden sonnet]

No, it's because an adrenaline equivalent boost damage with no cooldown is kinda borked

[fervent orbit]

also vortex stealth isnt really a negative thing, since any wings with hover will just completely negate it

[tender crater]

oh, didn't know that

[sleek turret]

True actually

[fervent orbit]

the solar shield in solar armour uses adr too, so yea

[sleek turret]

Moonlord itself gives one hover option

[fervent orbit]

[golden sonnet]

If only there was a pair of related wings that could do that

[fervent orbit]

[tender crater]

man i love kirby

[fervent orbit]

i sure do love vortex booster

anyways what does stardust get? insane fucking stats

[tender crater]

i forgot the vortex booster had hovering

5 minion slots+a shit-ton of additive damage is absurd ye

it doesn't need a good set bonus, the armor pieces are already cracked on their own

[golden sonnet]

Also the sentry slot is insane

[tender crater]

i forgot it has that now

so ye, even better

[sleek turret]

I see

[fervent orbit]

free sentry buff go!

[tender crater]

go go gadget free spikecrag

[sleek turret]

War Table

[tender crater]

free spikecrag(s)

[sleek turret]

It's funny also because you can get 4 sentries at pre-hm

[keen ore]

mmm why buffing so much armour pieces then?

[tender crater]

that's just how the armor works in vanilla

and atm it's unchanged from that

[sleek turret]

Yeah

[keen ore]

SG might be possibly having the longest time of being trash in vanilla

[sleek turret]

In Vanilla it probably works because of how Vanilla is balanced in the first place

[keen ore]

probably yep

[sleek turret]

The issue could be translating vanilla balance to calamity balance

Since the stats are unchanged I feel

[keen ore]

wait and see

[sleek turret]

SG damage is also boosted by minion damage modifiers too

[keen ore]

he is?

[sleek turret]

Vanilla wiki states in the Notes section

[keen ore]

bruh

[sleek turret]

"Due to the Stardust armor increasing all summon damage by 66%, including the damage of the Stardust Guardian, its base damage is about 43-47."

[tender crater]

why wouldn't it be? other armors that come with a free minion also do this

like the summoner variant of aerospec

[keen ore]

i didnt remember anything from armor set bonuses was affected

but it makes sense for scaling

[sleek turret]

It should also be affected by whips tag but the wiki doesn't state anything regarding that

[keen ore]

lets check rn

he is

[worldly sparrow]

solar's bonus needs a nerf its that broken its the exception
vortex stealth is mid
nebula gets huge bonuses but thats taken into account for balance

[keen ore]

still meh

[worldly sparrow]

and since stardust is the summoner armor

you best bet its not getting balanced

[fervent orbit]

vortex stealth isnt mid because it can be entirely ignored with hover wings

[worldly sparrow]

but then you lose the cool bonuses from the matching set wings

[fervent orbit]

vortex boosters ARE HOVER WINGS

[worldly sparrow]

wtf since when

[fervent orbit]

since always

[worldly sparrow]

damn do i just not use hover that much

[keen ore]

yes

[worldly sparrow]

but thats just one of the three set bonuses

im not gonna say that solar is balanced because it is the farthest armor set in the entire game from balanced

but i can defend nebula

[keen ore]

its not about them balanced though

as one guy perfectly framed

SG does not contribute to damage like others

[worldly sparrow]

im pretty sure SG was meant for non-boss application

of course its gonna do jackshit against bosses because its not designed for them

[keen ore]

in general

[worldly sparrow]

what about #general-talk

[keen ore]

no like SG in general never contributes as much as other set bonuses

-_-

[fervent orbit]

it doesnt need to when you compare stardusts insane fucking stats

[worldly sparrow]

i think thats just the fact that its designed for enemy protection

[golden sonnet]

Set bonus doesn't matter if the individual pieces are better

[worldly sparrow]

the other set bonuses are useful everywhere

[sleek turret]

So are summons though?

[worldly sparrow]

... and by extension, public enemy 1
the summoner class as a whole's damage

[sleek turret]

Minions also protect you from enemies due to it's nature

[worldly sparrow]

the stardust guardian is a minion yes

[sleek turret]

Stardust insane stats are probably going to get toned down in the next prophetized Grand Summoner Rebalance

[worldly sparrow]

ive lost hope in the great rebalance

[keen ore]

summoner rebalance will balance the entire universe

probably

[worldly sparrow]

ive heard whispers but it just isnt happening

[sleek turret]

Since I think one of the plans is limiting the amount of minion slots

[keen ore]

ew no

[sleek turret]

Even more.

[worldly sparrow]

another one of the plans is removing whip stacking as a whole

[sleek turret]

Whips are also going to be changed so that pre-hm whips now have flat tag instead of multiplicative tag

[worldly sparrow]

calamity doesnt like to delete game mechanics but this is the exception

[keen ore]

whip stacking is obsolete right after ml

[worldly sparrow]

well yeah because kaleidoscope is so broken it carries the entire game

its quite literally the best weapon in the mod rn

[keen ore]

broken?

[sleek turret]

Flat tag whips pre-hm is kinda silly because I personally think it could break with stuff like Blade staff even if it means increasing damage by 6

[keen ore]

damn

[sleek turret]

(reminder that Blade Staff whip tag effectiveness is 75%)

[worldly sparrow]

its only competition is post-wof whip firecracker

[keen ore]

u just broke my assurement that im good that the game

[worldly sparrow]

which is also viable till endgame

[fossil finch]

Using bone whip in post ml because flat tag makes it really good when using the blorpo summon

[sleek turret]

True actually

[worldly sparrow]

and oh man 1.4.5 will roll out with a moon lord whip and a stardust whip

if summoner rebalance doesnt happen by then

summoner will ascend to godhood

[keen ore]

what

[floral yoke]

Yeah

[fossil finch]

We still don't get why would calamity Need a summoner rebalance

[worldly sparrow]

re-logic are great game developers that clearly take into account their modding scene

[fossil finch]

But we know where that discussion goes so

[floral yoke]

Because Summoner is busted

[sleek turret]

Summoner is alredy godhood if you play optimially by using sentries and/or debuffs

It doesn't need any new whips to do so

[floral yoke]

The combination between the powerful summons and sentries with whip tag damage is like??

[fossil finch]

Is summoner being good a real problem that negatively impact the experience or is it a thing numbers nerds can froth at the mouth about

[worldly sparrow]

its more of a balance issue

[sleek turret]

It also comes to the issue that Summoner balance in Cal clashes with Summoner balance in Vanilla since 1.4

[worldly sparrow]

balance never actually negatively impacts the experience one way or another so long as nothing is too underpowered or too overpowered

[worldly sparrow]

summoner is the latter

[fossil finch]

Is it really

[sleek turret]

To be fair the summoner issue could be solved by making summons be complemented by whips equally to Vanilla

[worldly sparrow]

yes

[fossil finch]

Is it really

[worldly sparrow]

yes

[floral yoke]

Being a singleplayer experience I can understand the argument of just leaving it as is, which is why it hasn’t been nerfed as of right now

[fossil finch]

Is it reall- dies

[worldly sparrow]

spamton real

[sleek turret]

Summoner being minion-centric (totally new term made by me :stuff:) is an issue

[fossil finch]

Yeah isn't this what they're doing, isn't this the plan, please kaizo don't scare us please why

[keen ore]

because it is a summoner

[fossil finch]

It would be so awesome if calamity was balanced like vanilla

[sleek turret]

Yeah but you gotta acknowledge summoner in Vanilla was always a class complemented by other weapons

You can look to summoner gameplay before 1.4 and you will see that people are using Lava buckets to kill King Slime + Slime Staff on pure summoner playthroughs

[keen ore]

because before 1.4 it was really unbalanced and had a lot of problems
its not anymore and is still awaiting final touches (just a speculation)

[sleek turret]

Not sure if y'all watched Yrimir's Summoner playthrough atleast once

[keen ore]

for 1.4.4?

[sleek turret]

1.3

[dapper apex]

i think summoner didn't exist before 1.3

[worldly sparrow]

yrimir never played 1.4.4

[dapper apex]

It was a mage subclass

[keen ore]

oops, typo

[dapper apex]

or was it another version...

[floral yoke]

I was always curious if some weapons like bat scepter would have been nice alternatives to whips

[sleek turret]

"it was a mage subclass" No, it was it's own class that lacked weapons to complement it

[floral yoke]

Pretty sure it had weapons like throwing, just very few like tempest staff and frost hydra

[dapper apex]

it was a part of a mage tho
summons were dealing magic damage and summon damage didn't exist

[sleek turret]

The creation of whips was made with the reason that summoner needed class weapons for itself that complemented it and benefited it as well

[fossil finch]

The point being made by kaizo here is that summons were bad on their own but calamity didn't like that so you had to use them on their own but they were bad so Calamity buffed them but kinda too much so it fucked balance and then whips rolled into the game but Calamity summons were still buffed to be good on their own so whips don't work with that and also vanilla rebalanced the class around using whips as support so calamity is now

[keen ore]

so thats what great summoner rebalance will be

[fossil finch]

We have a fear it won't! But we get no say in that so we don't bother thinking about it too much

[keen ore]

if it wont

who cares

people can play any other class they like

[sleek turret]

Afaik prophetized Great Summoner Rebalance isn't going to be rebalancing summoner stuff to how vanilla balance works

[fossil finch]

[sleek turret]

Yeah the "don't like it, don't play it" argument

[floral yoke]

More interested in the rogue rework

[royal tapir]

🔁

[keen ore]

no thats not the point
the point is that you can always wait

[sleek turret]

Waiting for summoner rebalance

[keen ore]

https://tenor.com/view/skeleton-gif-26826812

[sleek turret]

It's more probable that the colapse of our capitalist society comes first than the entire rebalance of summoner itself

[keen ore]

dont do that prediction

u will spoil it

[fossil finch]

The rework should be that stealth strikes don't exist anymore and also all rogue weapons have ranger damage and also we remove 85% of them and

Sorry jested a little too close to the sun there

[sleek turret]

We also remove the fact that most rogue gear are projectile vomits

[sleek turret]

Thanks Ender

[sleek turret]

ooooo sgm negating most claims about whips ooooo

👻

[keen ore]

executioner's blade:

nervous sweating

[serene vapor]

We need more rogue weapons like Final Dawn

[misty lichen]

no we don’t no we don’t no we don’t no w

[keen ore]

lul

[crude geode]

Balance nerds when make it cooler nerds show up

[misty lichen]

it’s not cooler

try using it

your fingers won’t like you

[sleek turret]

cal balance people when I show them how many summoner weapons with 4 support weapons tests they will have to do on KS

(it's an excel 15x5 killtime table)

[keen ore]

huh

[crude geode]

cope

[sleek turret]

• on standarized balance gear which sucks ass honestly

wrath/rage potions are post-Skeletron

[serene vapor]

Fishing

[misty lichen]

yeah

blood orbs

[keen ore]

its for lazy people to wait for skeletron death

[misty lichen]

you can’t have both without making an artificial evil biome or blood orbs

[sleek turret]

Could be reason however

[keen ore]

and you can make artificial evil alt biome

[sleek turret]

Explain why Summoner Potion is considered post-QB

[misty lichen]

it’s not

changed to post skeletron

[sleek turret]

It is according to the "Standarized Gear" which is used as a guideline for testing

[misty lichen]

nope

[keen ore]

bruh

[misty lichen]

ur outdated

[sleek turret]

Am I?

[keen ore]

yes

[sleek turret]

Ok I am

[keen ore]

summoner potion is viable at the start

[sleek turret]

Even then fishing isn't something that is exclusive to post-Skeletron if we go by the blood orbs logic

[misty lichen]

yeah but

imagine if the game EXPECTED you to be using every offensive potion before king slime

especially summoner which at preboss is like a 33% dps increase

if you go for the extra effort to fish for them, you deserve extra damage, not “expected damage”

[grim tusk]

100%*

[sleek turret]

You get extra damage but what even is the expected damage

Especially when the Standarized Loadout specifies to go with 2 offensive 3 non-offensive on pre-hm when it doesn't even catter the playerbase accordingly

[misty lichen]

that’s also no longer true

[sleek turret]

Neither me nor you have an idea of what the player base goes before a boss and we only use assumptions on our bias

[grim tusk]

Thats why we dont test with fishing potions nor Ex. stuffed (minus Summoning due to the mega rebalancing) til like Evils 2

[keen ore]

whar

[grim tusk]

Potions are strong as shit boy

or gal

Or whatever

[keen ore]

galboy

[sleek turret]

Where is it that isn't true?

Reforges guideline are 2 offensive 3 non-offensive as well as how accessories are in the summoner sheet

If it were updated the summoning potion disclaimer would have been updated to reflect the potions and buffs sheet on the document.

[grim tusk]

For tierlist tests avoid summoning potion til evil 2

Although you wont need tests for March unless a horrible bug that needs a hotfix is found

(No critical bug has been found yet)

[floral yoke]

Potions, imo, have always been a get out of jail free card

In cases, you go out of your way to make your fights easier

[sleek turret]

What even is the relation between standarized testing builds and tierlist tests builds when both serve the purpose of knowing the current state of balance of weapons

Especially when both seem to have different guidelines regarding on what to use or what not to use

[misty lichen]

guidelines are outdated

[sleek turret]

It's literally on the doc

Same with accs selection

[misty lichen]

the doc is outdated

it hasn’t been worked on for a while

i don’t get your point at all, if people are allowed to use whatever they want then everybody would get extremely different results, simple as that. test gear is not and has never been meant to be perfectly aligned with “expected” gear

what are you even concerned about, that rage and wrath aren’t used preboss? we didn’t declare that they can only be used post skeletron, that’s just when all tests start to use them because by then they are easily accessible

[sleek turret]

It's due to the fact that tester gear expects players to play as casual by going with a guideline on what is expected on the casual player in the first place

And the "casual" part is only pure assumption on things that is assumed that the overall playerbase uses

[misty lichen]

it’s not gear expected for a casual player, i just said that

its gear meant to not be skewed towards offense or defense

[golden sonnet]

you are the one assuming things here

[sleek turret]

If I were assuming things here I would have assumed that the playerbase goes with a balanced loadout of 2 offensive 2 defensive 1 movement for both accs and reforges

[misty lichen]

well you didn’t assume that, and nobody assumed that

that’s also not even tester gear if that’s what you were trying to go for

[sleek turret]

Then what is tester gear exactly, what does it use and what is the aim of it

[misty lichen]

it’s balanced gear meant to keep testing times consistent between people

again, what’s the complaint

[north oracle]

It's purely for consistency when testing
Not being the balanced load out that everyone should use

[misty lichen]

do you want tester gear to be more offensive? defensive? do you want more niche potions crammed into it?

[sleek turret]

The concern what I am having here is that what even balance is based on whether is balance from killtimes tierlist, standarized or what catters to the playerbase

[north oracle]

Catering to the player base is nearly impossible when they all use different terrible builds

You have to spend about 20 minutes in this server to see that the general player base does not have remotely optimal builds

[wide river]

The amount of people who used Blood Pact pre-rework because "oh it gives more HP so it must be good" is a testament to this

[misty lichen]

it also was never meant to cater to the playerbase either

[north oracle]

Yeh, not only is it not a good idea... it never even tried

[grim tusk]

Playerbase has:
The Nohitters, Speedrunners and other optimizers (small fraction)
Sugg disc/Tierlist gang (even smaller fraction)
The “qol” (wingslot, alchnpc, etc) mod gang (like a third)
Devs (both addons, Cal and other mods’) (even smaller fraction)
Multiple content mods gang (also smol)
Regular gang (the rest)

[misty lichen]

tester gear if it was good and actually catered to the playerbase

[wide river]

I have somehow been all four of these at some point

[sleek turret]

Tester gear if I went with an overexagerated claim and not the reality of things

[north oracle]

SAME

I'm pretty sure that's just the tester pipeline

[sleek turret]

Honestly I'm just gonna drop out the convo because if we're gonna start by making exagerated claims then we as a whole aren't going to formulate a conclusion neither have a healthy discussion because I know how this ends up

[ashen warren]

Does it really matter to the community how testers test these things?

[grim tusk]

“MY OP WEAPON NOOOOOOOO!”

Or “oh this thing is usable now”

[ashen warren]

Other than that, but like, nerfs and buffs happen according to the gear

[sleek turret]

And I guess if it satisfies some people's ego so much about winning an argument then congrats

[ashen warren]

I just don't see the point on trying to change it

[misty lichen]

😭

[grim tusk]

Add Wings, Angel treads and Valor and then pretty much

The first 2 on w*ng and boot slot

[ashen warren]

Boots are overrated tbf

[golden sonnet]

I don't feel any claims were exaggerated, and you have yet to articulate why the testing is method is flawed or should be changed. No one is going on an ego trip here and this response seems pretty childish to be honest

[novel belfry]

im in that 3rd group in case you're wondering

[ashen warren]

I'm mainly the Speedrunners and Other Optimizers
And Hc but no cares about hc

[misty lichen]

regular gang wya

[ashen warren]

I need to get back into 1.3 speedruns. Scal Seeded is the freest run ever

[grim tusk]

[sleek turret]

You are true Raesh, the response was childish and I am sorry about that with deepest lament.
However, I will articulate my response when I gatter testing knowledge regarding on how balance works in this mod as well as vanilla so that I can finally expose if it's flawed or has to be changed, due the never ending knowledge we both have to expierence.

[ashen warren]

I need to do it so Brax can stop bugging me

[grim tusk]

Thats like the joke

[ashen warren]

Unnecessary post wall. Wings are necessary which I don't like

[golden sonnet]

I could've worded things better as well, and understand where you are coming from as the image definitely was an exaggeration, even if it wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

[sleek turret]

Thank you for your understanding and emphatic character in your response.

[limpid salmon]

:)

[limpid salmon]

:(

[worldly sparrow]

where do addon devs fit on this

[coral carbon]

I have so many different mods, I'm definitely in the QoL gang, alongside the "Combine multiple content mods together, nothing bad will happen" gang

[grim tusk]

A new faction

[worldly sparrow]

yipee

[fossil finch]

the truth is that we are an evil person and all along we just wanted the mod be balanced exactly to cater to all our preferences

[olive saddle]

So true

Buff beetle armor when

[median scaffold]

Buff valhalla armor to be viable post-yharon (...wait, is it actually not viable post-yharon?)

[olive saddle]

I think it is

[grim tusk]

OD drop moment

(Carrion sentry)

[grim tusk]

So true

time to change universal stealth factor to 1 from 0.42

[fossil finch]

actually time to reove rog

[misty lichen]

[buoyant prairie]

I don’t know how suggestions work so I’m going to write something that may make no sense

[drowsy plank]

or you could just

post it in here

or ask us

[buoyant prairie]

Oki

I was thinking there could be small additions to the events of the normal game, like, making the event enemies more difficult or with more abilities, and maybe adding new enemies

[drowsy plank]

buff events, basically?

[buoyant prairie]

Ye

[drowsy plank]

i guess you could make an argument for it due to a lack of real event based content considering all calamity adds is acid rain... i dunno, just try to focus more on the why and less on the what

[buoyant prairie]

I understand

[buoyant prairie]

After thinking for a while, I will try to elaborate:
The reason I feel these events could be updated or buffed is because compared to the content and items in the mod, the events don’t offer much aside from the loot and crafting materials, there could also be a lot of freedom for what can be added to these events such as new items, new enemies and crafting materials that would be difficult to make or find in the mod

[grave zinc]

@umbral gazelle - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[give photon ripper a non tool right click mechanic]

It has officially been implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[olive saddle]

oh cool

[grave zinc]

@wintry gale - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make photon ripper and Hydraulic Volt Crasher's tool capacity be used in a diferent button]

It has officially been implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[hollow idol]

forgot about HVC.,.,

[serene vapor]

fair enough, it’s decent for destroyer and aquatic scourge but kinda useless otherwise

[misty lichen]

what does that have to do with its tool function

it’s actually a really good hammer for like a while iirc

[wintry gale]

[grave zinc]

@worldly sparrow - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make Auric Ore launch golf balls]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@umbral gazelle - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make the "first exo mechs" choice given to the player that made a contact instead of random player]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@worldly sparrow - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make Auric Ore launch golf balls]

It has officially been implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[ashen warren]

It's amazing, best change we've ever done

[small timber]

https://tenor.com/view/future-ram-ranch-gif-18120355

The world now if Auric golf ball got implemented 10 years before

[cyan thunder]

what if arrows affected by auric

thatd be kinda funny

[sand marlin]

That would actually be more of a balance thing

Not that any arrows beyond Yharon refrain from converting

[small timber]

what if auric arrow is literally just an arrow with no special property other than higher base damage than vanquisher arrow

[fervent orbit]

high knockback value

🔥 ✍️

[small timber]

insane property that will 100% be useful in any scenario presented in the game

[sand marlin]

Auric arrow grants auric rejection to hit enemy which makes them repel everything in existence. Ares' arms fuck off into the atmosphere, Thanatos' segments brutally dismantle, A&A instead magnet each other and explode, seekers abandon SCal, brothers play tennis, sepulcher flings the hearts away so you can never kill them

[cyan thunder]

yeah but vanquisher particle accelerator

[sand marlin]

Vanquisher ignores tiles

[cyan thunder]

i thought vanquisher was the one that bounces against walls

[sand marlin]

https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Vanquisher_Arrow

[fossil finch]

He doesn't know.

[olive saddle]

I'm aware solutions aren't allowed but I figured this one is so incredibly obvious that it shouldn't matter.

Its also a single item and a consistency change that, in my opinion, is needlessly inconsistent

[small timber]

the bar cost are the same right for item?

[olive saddle]

Yes

I'd..hope so

Regardless it'll still be inconsistent as its like 4 at max

If it was 6 for mythril and 5 for ora then it'd be fine

[floral yoke]

Both are 4

4 ore for 1 bar

And this is a vanilla issue, I’m surprised it’s like that in vanilla lol

[olive saddle]

Did red do controlled substances or something when making that code because the difference is pointless and an outlier

[floral yoke]

Someone should tell Red

[buoyant prairie]

Ye

[fossil finch]

Keep this it's hilarious

[worn coyote]

increase them both by 2

[olive saddle]

This is also a solution i proposed as well

Just change one of them to match the other

[worn coyote]

both

[olive saddle]

The main reason i put it as lowering the value is to reduce amt needed for an anvil but it can genuinely go either way

[royal tapir]

This could be changed in like 30 seconds

[fervent orbit]

go go gadget cit

changes stuff in the game that takes 30 seconds

[olive saddle]

If you want to change it you could and I'll delete the sugg

[golden sonnet]

TRUE

[royal tapir]

Lemme get out of bed first

[golden sonnet]

Damn, it doesn't need to be right this second

[golden sonnet]

Cit really living up to their reputation

Thanks for your dedication

[olive saddle]

I assume that's that and the sugg can be deleted?

[royal tapir]

It is in next update now yes

[worn coyote]

🎉

[olive saddle]

Ok cool thank you

[golden sonnet]

Common CIT W

[left crag]

lmao I had no idea the oricalcum anvil was more expensive

[golden sonnet]

Isn't everclear the ONLY alcohol that takes more than one??

[left crag]

oh red

[left crag]

Don't remember, hence my suggestion :D

plus I always forget if Fab's Vodka and vanilla drinks contribute or not

[fervent orbit]

yes

[left crag]

idk, just thought it'd be nice and wouldn't create text clutter

[fervent orbit]

ale also counts as an alochol

[golden sonnet]

(and sake but same shit)

[left crag]

so thats why I was always getting drunk only having "2" drinks

(I was running Fab's and Sunrise)

[golden sonnet]

You need more than 3 to get alcohol sickness

Even with ale fabs and sunrise you wouldn't have issues

[left crag]

see I lose track of what 30 stack buffs I have after a while, so there was probably something I forgot about

I keep the icons hidden

[royal tapir]

This is a fair suggestion

[warped vector]

question

mythril vs orichalcum pickaxe

are they the same or ori more expensive

[olive saddle]

WHYYYY

Whyyyy

Its a three bar difference

With ori being more expensive

What the fuck

[left crag]

oh red

[olive saddle]

Dude...

The adamantite pickaxe costs 18 and the titanium one costs 20

Red did you drink pure everclear and do about 35 controlled substances when making this

[fervent orbit]

no

he did UNcontrolled substances

[small timber]

I am almost certain every single drink is 1 except that everclear is 2

[olive saddle]

Yes

Itis

[left crag]

pretty sure thats the case yeah, I'm just a fan of information transparency

[warped vector]

soooo...

a suggestion?

[worldly sparrow]

bro they got the whole dev team ready just to do this it was 1 minute after it passed voting

[royal tapir]

YuH posting

[sand marlin]

Oh I was gonna say something about this but it's still there so Idk

[golden sonnet]

Calamity already changed tools

Check [[Vanilla Item Recipes]]

[red storm]

https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Vanilla_Item_Recipes?action=edit&redlink=1

[golden sonnet]

Bruh

!wiki vanilla item recipes

[red storm]

https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Vanilla_item_recipes

[drowsy plank]

@dusty atlas that is waaaaaay too specific also unless im insane im pretty sure bloodstone has more to do with ravager than it has to do with crags? regardless, there are already plans for ravager to get a lot of changes anyway, i think. if devs disagree or im wrong or something feel free to lmk

[fervent orbit]

bloodstone will be a ravager only material after his retier iirc

[golden sonnet]

It does yes, I believe the devs have stated it will be removed from the crags and made only rav

[drowsy plank]

yeah, thought so

[golden sonnet]

This

[fervent orbit]

plus, with the current conotations of ravager being a necromantic construct of the god of sacrificies, along with multiple other drops being related to blood, bloodstone makes more sense to be with ravager

[royal tapir]

@frail fox - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Add Meteorite Bars to Smoking Comet's Recipe]

It has been officially implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

Manual message because the bot refuses to mark the suggestion when I react it

[golden sonnet]

Bot looks different today

[frail fox]

I always knew you were a bot cit

[royal tapir]

Remember that the bots are better at Uno than you

[golden sonnet]

Don't worry, I don't have uno

[buoyant idol]

You have Uno.

[golden sonnet]

I don't have fucking uno

[frail fox]

That’s because they cheat

[royal tapir]

Words of denial

[buoyant idol]

It came free with your Xbox.

[golden sonnet]

I will not be continuing this dead bit to avoid spam, but I appreciate you acknowledging the reference

[buoyant idol]

Yeah, no need to flood this chat with a joke when it's meant for suggestions.

[stable kiln]

uno doesnt exist

im still salty

[wide river]

If you're salty

Does that make you a soup

[stable kiln]

if i have to see this word one more time i'll do unspeakble things

[royal tapir]

Cannot deny the soup

[golden sonnet]

I guess you could say that you're, done with soup

(never heard before joke)

[stable kiln]

you people are literally the worst

[golden sonnet]

[dusty atlas]

Thanks for informing me, is there any way to fix my post?

actually if its already planned, then there is no need to fix my post

[restive wharf]

does calamity nerf spiked jungle slimes?

[lavish condor]

I think it nerfs everything pre-boss

[restive wharf]

jungle slimes are super unfair, i just think they should balance it more

[lavish condor]

if you go do king slime you can trivialize them with royal gel

they're pretty easily the hardest underground jungle enemy but I don't think they need to nerf it because underground jungle's supposed to be later pre-hm

[lost cedar]

royal gel:

[tender crater]

There's absolutely no needs for nerfing them lol by the time a player reaches the jungle, they'll have the tools to handle them

They're only a mayor threat if you're rushing jungle, and at that point things are on your own risk

[fossil finch]

Actually zenith seed giving you a good weapon right away because of an oversight is very funny and right on the spirit of the seed

It doesn't have to be playable but it doesn't have to be balanced against the player either

[drowsy plank]

^
there are other things id much rather have changed first before randomly making the seed harder

[ashen warren]

the alcohol thing needs to be better explained for sure

i didn't even know it was a thing until i died to it when fighting ravager

[mortal rock]

Alcohol poisoning moment

[worthy fiber]

it's pretty straightforward with the debuff I think

[golden sonnet]

Yeah, if you are above the limit you will be taking damage at all times

If you died to it without noticing it was probably just the death message being bugged and not actually you dying to it

[ashen warren]

i just never realized it was a thing, and thought the damage was from boss effects

the death message said i died of alcohol poisoning iirc

[golden sonnet]

Yes, it's bugged

If you die to any debuff while you have any alcohol active even if it's only 1, you will get that message

[ashen warren]

well the point is i only realized it was a thing there

so giving other hints to players as oblivious as me would be nice

[golden sonnet]

Post SCal killing them is super easy

[worldly sparrow]

how so

[golden sonnet]

Just use any exhumed weapon

[worldly sparrow]

that still takes effort to do

[golden sonnet]

Cinders of lament one shots the whole town except brimstone witch

[worldly sparrow]

putting npcs in an auric box is more fun + you dont have to keep attacking

[floral yoke]

More a consistency thing

[sand marlin]

Well you don't need to because you weren't poisoned if you do get poisoned you would know

[floral yoke]

For fun too

[golden sonnet]

You only need to attack more than once for SCal and archmage, every other npc gets one shot. I like the idea of allowing NPCS to get aurically rejected, but the argument of it being a way to kill NPCs just seems misled, as it requires placing blocks and being post yharon, which is way more tedious than other options

[worldly sparrow]

unless every npc is attuned to a dragon (there is only 1 dragon and hes taken) theres no way they dont take damage from auric

[ashen warren]

better idea, make a flymeal upgrade that uses auric rejection as an attack

[floral yoke]

Also would be funny seeing a slime get launched by auric… If they don’t explode from the damage first

[ashen warren]

oh better yet

make it the homerun bat from smash bros

[worldly sparrow]

thats just an auric golf club

[ashen warren]

does it hit npcs??

[worldly sparrow]

unfortunately not, you cannot send golf balls into the guts of town npcs

[floral yoke]

Sadly

[worldly sparrow]

even though that'd be fun as fuck

[ashen warren]

so close to peak

[worldly sparrow]

i want golf subclass but cant suggest it

[golden sonnet]

You are the conv dev director

Make it yourself

Be the change you want to see in the world

[floral yoke]

The most fun yet inefficient way to damage enemies

[worldly sparrow]

just because i direct the mod doesnt mean everyone would want to add everything i say

i just manage shit

[floral yoke]

That’s why you got to get likeminded coders

[worldly sparrow]

unfortunately i cannot recruit people for shit

i am too mean to everyone to have contacts with really cool programming people

[golden sonnet]

Rule with an iron fist, that has never lead to issues in the past with conv

[worldly sparrow]

REAL

[umbral gazelle]

you are saying that in front of someone who is making a mod and is out of idea for class(me :3)

[worldly sparrow]

i mean also me but yeah

you should add a golf class

heavier golf clubs
faster swings
heavier golf balls
fast speeds
more damage

sounds great

[golden sonnet]

Make the colors of golf balls have functions like ammo

Explosive golf balls, homing golf balls, extremely bouncy balls

[buoyant prairie]

Fishing with golf

[floral yoke]

Golf… Boulders? 🤔

[buoyant prairie]

Enemies with golf clubs

[floral yoke]

Should be like GTA vice city

Just hit them with the club

[worldly sparrow]

we should remove all weapons, bosses, accesories, and enemies and let terraria become golf simulator

[golden sonnet]

Golf discussion should probably move from this channel

[floral yoke]

Tru

Anyway add auric npc rejection

[golden sonnet]

I agree, but as stated before I think the argument of it being for NPC killing is silly

[worldly sparrow]

tbh i think the inconsistency argument is enough

[floral yoke]

It’d be inefficient at doing that, but would still be funny

[worldly sparrow]

but at the same time it'd be funny yes

[golden sonnet]

Agreed, but it would also mean all enemies would need to have it too

[buoyant prairie]

An item that can make enemies into allies, with the only exception being bosses

[floral yoke]

Probably something for a future update, Fab already had to go through each Master Mode enemy to tone down their stats this update lol

[dapper apex]

God I love the style of Pusheen's suggestions

[worldly sparrow]

typically people ask for small to medium things in suggestions

but im not sure how im supposed to be immersed if auric ore doesnt reject town npcs

[floral yoke]

I want to put Auric Ore on the ground next to an npc’s door and watch as they launch themselves into the stratosphere

[dapper apex]

adobe scams again

they keep coming

[fervent orbit]

i want auric ore to literally interact with everything in the game

[floral yoke]

I place an auric ore next to a block and it should dirt rod projectile away

[fossil finch]

Tbf auric ore doesn't care about non living things

[buoyant idol]

Bacteria:
Astral Infection’s interaction is a defining thing in the whether or not viruses are living things.

[dapper apex]

its not really viruses its mana

[fervent orbit]

thats not what they meant

and besides, astral infects anything that isnt sapient

so unless viruses are sapient somehow, they get infected by astral

[novel belfry]

also astral infection is a... sickness debuff

wack

is it a fuck ton of mana, corrupted mana, or is it a space virus

(i assume its the middle)

[sleek turret]

Unorthodox debuff

[worldly sparrow]

golf

are golf balls alive

[fossil finch]

Yes

[worldly sparrow]

i love abusing small creatures!!!

[golden sonnet]

of course, it is accurate to reality

[olive saddle]

The gift that keeps coming back and haunting us all. Auric ore

[fervent orbit]

have u not SEEN gravity falls???

[worldly sparrow]

of course i have

but i dont see any omnipresent floating triangle with a top hat so

[fervent orbit]

then ud know golf is a conspiracy

[floral yoke]

Auric HATES golf, Simple.

[olive saddle]

do you think yharim would enjoy golfing with the terrarian as a phase 2

[floral yoke]

Probably Terraria Kart

But this is not a suggestion topic 😭

Been getting slowly off track

[olive saddle]

its technically on topic if we say what if we suggest yharim golf ball

[novel belfry]

haha cause its Terraria Kart, amirite

[olive saddle]

you're so funny, you're actually so funny, my microphone was able to transcribe it, heres what it picked up:
really I-.. sigh...

good one tho lmao

[cyan thunder]

atp make everything be affected by auric ore

golf balls, npcs, players, pets, projectiles, enemies, bosses, blocks, traps, items, liquids, debuffs, buffs, tile-ignoring enemies, tile-ignoring projectiles, and everything else

[olive saddle]

oh hell nah we debuffing auric ore

[worn coyote]

tbh auric ore should be affected by auric ore

[serene vapor]

good suggestion but PLEASE KEEP MAGNETIC MELTDOWN PRE POLTERGHAST I BEG YOU

[median scaffold]

Just make Fly meal 2.0 or smth

[novel belfry]

AURIC FLYMEAL

[dapper apex]

yharim's sword drop but its actually just flymeal 2.0

[median scaffold]

At least it's useful, so why not

[crude geode]

Spectre staff being in magnetic meltdown never made any sense

[grim tusk]

Bruh the new ShyGuy vid trying to fight misinformation about the discussion here with even more misinfo

• Minmaxes to hell on his tests
• Fights Aureus with post-Golem gear
• Uses some claims from back on 1.4-beta when firecracker was x3 and ofc distorts the claim to “give himself an advantage”
• cherrypicks info
• Fights Brimmy with durendal
• Uses Teryu which is bugged
• Expert death tests

[olive saddle]

is firecracker not 2x? last i checked on the wiki it was but i could be deficient

also aureus with post golem gear

[grim tusk]

Last time I checked the code it was infact not x2

Theres likely some fuckery that we’ll have to deal with when we move to hardmode whips

Altho some of his info holds up as firecracker being a tad overnerfed

[drowsy plank]

oh shade btw MPG was p sure that the fights were done on expert-death and not expert-rev too

something about when the flare rings on yharon happened or something

[olive saddle]

ill check, im not super knowledgable about rev yharon but i know a lot about death yharon

[grim tusk]

And ofc uses the bugged summon (Teryu) vs Yharon

[olive saddle]

he also isnt using lunic eye i notice

[grim tusk]

Wait nvm I prob looked at the whip branch, firecracker is infact x2; so he did correct me on that one

[olive saddle]

i dont really understand this point? whats the point of this argument when you're supposed to scale your whips throughout the game?

[drowsy plank]

lol i figured he probably got that right tbf
he seemed very adamant about that point and would look pretty dumb if he wasn't checking source

[grim tusk]

Doesnt he know we’re gonna get rid Kalaleido’s crit?

[olive saddle]

i didnt even know that, makes sense considering it gives two multiplicative damage bonuses

[drowsy plank]

i dont think he knows much about what cal plans to do with whips
the only person that's ever really gotten close to civil discussion with him is angel id say, at least, from what i hear

[grim tusk]

Also true, an early hm whip should not be as strong as a post-Golem one

[grim tusk]

Pretty sure we mentioned that crit tag was dumb and was gonna get removed before he was banned

[olive saddle]

you scale your summons and all other weapons, so why in gods name would whips be exempt? also whip stacking exists and im fairly certain he likes it so why cant you just stack them together?

[grim tusk]

Imo:
whip stacking attack speed is ok I suppose
Debuff stacking is absolutely not (you get absolutely batshit insane results)

[olive saddle]

oh yea whip attack speed can make whip only a lot more viable and its a skill ceiling for a bit higher dps. the increased tag damage from all 3 though isnt ok since they're all multiplicative damage bonuses that can stack off of each other

[grim tusk]

Even with flat its not ok

Slime staff suddenly hitting 14 dmg per hit with 2 whips

3 and 4 tag respectively (they add up for +7 dmg)

[olive saddle]

blade staff in particular eating good with flat damage whip stacking

[olive saddle]

yea dealing double damage with say leather whip and snapthorn with a slime staff and hell even bladestaff to an extent is not good for balance

[grim tusk]

Blade staff has a 0.75 whip tag multiplier btw

It doesnt get the full boost (and even then it gets mega stupid with flat tag)

[olive saddle]

with coolwhip and durrendal flat bonuses multiplied both by 0.75 thats still more than double damage (around +11 damage), definitely and totally fine and fair

[grim tusk]

Idk if it still has that mult in Cal (probably still has) but its likely going to stay as we move towards flat tag in pre-hm

Cuz you could just use Spinal tap with it over Cool whip and break the game

Anyways
Summoner.

[olive saddle]

i was gonna bring up that phm whip damage seems pretty bad considering adding an extra 6% summon damage multiplier to a slime staff or belladonna doesnt seem worth, especially in phm where your damage multipliers arent high at all and your base damage is pretty low but im also not a calamity balancer

[grim tusk]

Yep, thats why pre-hm whips (except maybe Spinal tap) will have flat tag

Note: next patch will not have the mega summoner balance patch, thats for sunken sea or maybe a patch after it

[olive saddle]

theres something coming before sunken sea?

[misty lichen]

miscellaneous balance/rework patch #??

[ashen warren]

Yes, we're releasing an intermediary update in between.

[olive saddle]

oh good to know

[grim tusk]

The next patch is more of a ranger patch

[royal tapir]

The next patch is more of a "A lot of fucking things" patch

[glass arch]

most things except mage

[golden sonnet]

mage isn't real Jacob, you've been asleep for 13 years

[grim tusk]

Mage is likely gonna get love after summoner

Unsure if before or after rogue

[ashen warren]

There's been talks, but nothing concrete yet.

[grim tusk]

Same for rogue

[glass arch]

i could barely go to sleep when i was that old bold of you to assume i could sleep for 13 years

[ashen warren]

Ranger won't need a wide sweep like the other classes will - it's in a good spot just needs more options for variety.

[grim tusk]

Ranger’s problems are:
boring, outdated weapons
Ammo (which is being addressed next patch)

[ashen warren]

Xyk's ammo changes have all been incredible.

[golden sonnet]

common Xyk ranger rework W

[ashen warren]

People are really going to love them.

[small timber]

now how much will the new ammo broke the game though

[grim tusk]

You done yet Nathan? Remember that Discord has a character limit

[glass arch]

bro is cooking

[grim tusk]

Ngl the ones that concern me the most are Hallow Point (despite being the least interesting one) and Holy fire

[ashen warren]

Turns out, giving bows that were overbuffed to make up for the lackluster ammo become very strong when said ammo actually does something.

[glass arch]

incredible

[small timber]

that had always been the problem yes

meanwhile if you make things no longer convert ammo automatically, marksman round instantly become broken

[ashen warren]

Phangasm has had a heavy nerf, Alluvion is still an issue though.

[small timber]

the only reason it is not now is because there is no good weapon to use it

phangasm and alluvion had always felt weird, but are very similar bow on the exact same progression

[uneven adder]

• See image for reference, wasn't even close to 'completely minmaxed'

• The only things used during those tests that could be considered post-Golem are Dark Harvest and other Pumpkin Moon gear. Not only is this post-Plantera in every sense, but in Calamity it's almost stupid to not go for Pumpkin Moon when you easily have the gear to do so. It's like restricting Summoning Potions to Queen Bee- any player who actually wants to deal optimal DPS will not follow arbitrary, baseless progression rules.

• People have still said it's viable on Yharon, long after it was nerfed to 2x. Even claiming that it's viable past Plantera is extremely misleading given how badly it's outclassed outside its intended point in progression.

• That's possibly the vaguest non-argument ever lmao

• Brimstone Elemental, according to the wiki, is intended to be fought post-2 mech bosses... keep in mind that hardmode progression rework is a setting, and as such all options have to be accounted for. Keep in mind that this is a whip comparison, not a class loadouts guide- this is solely giving another whip to test and compare at the intended stage.

• Teryu is literally bugged to deal less DPS... it may be overpowered even with one dragon effectively disabled, but if it was that much of a difference in whip tests, it wouldn't have been used.

• The point of this is to prove DPS, is it not? Death Mode doesn't make a difference (if anything, it helps prove his point) in anything except bosses being more durable. That's like saying a speedkill isn't valid because it was performed on Master Mode instead of Classic Mode.

[grim tusk]

1 See: Aureus

3 that I agree with

4 his argument was still invalid and its just cherrypicking, you’re not making yourself any favors with an Ad Hominem

5 Brimmy is still not balanced around hallowed gear

[fierce epoch]

It's so over.

[uneven adder]

Ad hominem? I insulted your argument, not you.

[grim tusk]

6 ok, valid point

[small timber]

and also the hallowed setting (hardmore ore progression) is for cross mod compatibility or something iirc

the balance is generally intended with the hardmode ore progression turn on

[drowsy plank]

yeah it's just for compatability

[golden sonnet]

yeah, it only exists to avoid mod conflicts

[grim tusk]

7 No, the point is talking about how to balance stuff and checking stuff for the balanced game which is Expert Rev; some bosses (notably Yharon) change drastically on Death

[ashen warren]

Holiday Moons being balanced for post Golem was an incredibly dumb decision that we're still dealing with the consequences of.

I have never seen anyone that doesn't do them immediatly after Plant.

[small timber]

well vanilla said moons are post-Golem so

(I completely disagree)

[ripe owl]

Wha huh whueh?

Are Re-Logic okay?

[small timber]

at least not post-Cultist martian madness

pillar weapon tier martian madness drops

[drowsy plank]

post-Cultist Besty when it

[small timber]

time for my influx waver to be as good as daybreak and solar eruption and not break the game

tbh I always thought cal dev should just say "fuck vanilla balancing decision" and just put moons at post-plantera

[golden sonnet]

agreed tbh

[north oracle]

honestly i agree, yeah

[small timber]

or hard enforce it with post-Golem material for moon summon, or alternatively make it so it is much harder to get moon loot

rework the event so that it is wave based with bosses instead of making it so you just easily cull a bunch of miniboss with the only benefit of having high hp

[uneven adder]

I will say that death AI changes do make some tests less applicable for base cal balancing, but all the points he brought up and the basic comparisons can be replicated in Expert-Rev

[grim tusk]

2, the others already answered it

[grim tusk]

Yep, theres a possibility with the less mobile bosses (except Golem)

[uneven adder]

death mode mainly makes bosses more aggressive (and therefore easier to whip) though, does it not

[small timber]

some bosses matter a lot more (eg: leviathan), yharon matter abit (because bh timing); aureus generally do not matter outside of like, probe self damage

which do not matter in a short fight

[grim tusk]

In some cases, yes whipping would be easier but in others its the other way around

[uneven adder]

yharon for example is harder to whip iirc because of the larger amount of projectiles, but it's still kind of hard in Expert-Rev

[small timber]

also I do not understand

why is he making a whip video, when cal devs had been saying they want to rework summoner + whip for like, several months now

[grim tusk]

Because drama brings money

Or to fuel his already sky high ego

[golden sonnet]

he has said he would stop discussing whips and calamity like 3 times, he just doesn't move on

[grim tusk]

Pretty sure it was more

[small timber]

that will be like saying how ranger are broken with so many different ammo now, when literally all (all except 1?) ammo are gonna get changed next patch (of course summoner patch is not as soon, but you get the idea)

point is things will be drastically different

[grim tusk]

Heck didnt he say he was quitting? and yet now seems like his second channel has even more activity than before

[misty lichen]

still feel like it should just settle on being the same strength as post aureus/analev gear

[royal tapir]

Because he wants to stir the pot for idk

Trying to salvage attention

[misty lichen]

he wants to look really cool

[royal tapir]

Which he is certainly getting simply through this conversation existing

[grim tusk]

[uneven adder]

he has confirmed that it's mainly just because he's pissed that people still think firecracker is overpowered

[royal tapir]

lol said the shark, lmao

[grim tusk]

I find it hard to believe

[misty lichen]

pissed? 💀

[golden sonnet]

there is a reason people intentionally didn't leave comments on the video, instead it's just happening here through other people now

[grim tusk]

Sgm aint that simple

[misty lichen]

who fucking cares lmoa

[small timber]

I mean

[grim tusk]

As we saw when he was actually here

[small timber]

the average cal main chatter is like

[olive saddle]

im sorry whar?? they were??? the fuck???

ah yes, let us have this event that you can make right after plantera be post golem, that makes sense!

[small timber]

where is my png again

[grim tusk]

Altho true if this was #calamity-mod-talk this would have gone horribly

[royal tapir]

brb putting Beetle Husks in Seasonal Moon summons

[olive saddle]

actually not a... bad idea

[small timber]

incredibly outdated now

[wide river]

The first mistake you made was assuming vanilla was a coherent game

[uneven adder]

vanilla is fine

it has some balancing issues and very glaring iframe issues but overall it's good

[grim tusk]

Videogame modifications when the videogame modification modifies the game

[royal tapir]

Chair

[small timber]

vanilla also have 1 boss post-plantera which is golem

[olive saddle]

golem is also an issue but

[grim tusk]

Golem does not exist in vanilla as a factor

[olive saddle]

they're fixing that ig

[small timber]

which is a complete non-factor for 90% of terraria life time, until it get reworked to be slightly more relevant, but still weak

[royal tapir]

(It's still pretty much the same)

[grim tusk]

Was supposed to be fixed last vanilla patch

They just made it very slightly harder and thats it (still a pushover)

[small timber]

meanwhile vanilla cultist also definitely is too weak

then you get pillar weapon

[olive saddle]

ah yea thats a pretty big buff, still a shame i kill it in like 1 minute

[grim tusk]

Probably so that grinding lunar events doesnt suck as much

[uneven adder]

I can't say much about his motives, probably just dm him if you want to actually talk to him
talking about him behind his back doesn't accomplish anything

[dense locust]

cal cultist is also too weak but I digress

[small timber]

so vanilla moon being post-plant/golem in power is not a factor because: you cull 2 bosses and get incredibly powerful weapon instantly

[grim tusk]

We have each other blocked from the first whip dramas lol

[olive saddle]

i personally dont like golem in rev+ but i cant tell if its a skill issue becasue i expect golem to be easy or i personally dont like it because i dont like it

[small timber]

isnt cal cultist still dont summon dragon because you cant hit the fake clone

or they finally changed it

[uneven adder]

then go into the comments section I suppose

[grim tusk]

And I aint talking to him in chat again, dude becomes quite obnoxious (which lead to his ban)

[tardy geyser]

Yeah thats correct, the dragon only spawns if you dont hit it in time

[grim tusk]

At least he seems more civil on those screenshots

[small timber]

I think the main thing is he took calmain argument way too seriously

[olive saddle]

i dont know much about shyguy but from what i can tell he paints his opinions as how it should be and refuses to hear otherwise

[small timber]

instead of like, the opinion of the actual testers (though tbh it is hard for him to reach due to the ban)

[royal tapir]

SGM has the fatal flaw of refusing to drop something

[wide river]

As does this chat, when whips come up

[dense ferry]

I want to kill people

[royal tapir]

@dense ferry 💥

Me when I find you

[dense locust]

put that on hold

[dense ferry]

I am here to genuinely

Fucking beg on my knees

To stop this

I am so fucking tired

[small timber]

it is a civil whips and moon discussion

[royal tapir]

Rule 4 of Terraria Modding

[small timber]

but yeah, Fishron Phase 4 transition when (genuinely)

[dense ferry]

I have literally never debated about Whips

[ashen warren]

This conversation has been talked to death, and I'm still not sure why people are trying to bring it up when it's the same circle every time. Positive discussion is not happening and it's only serving to make people more hostile at each other. The summoner rebalance is happening right now, and will be done with the SSO. There are differing opinions how it should be balanced, and that's fine, it's a sensitive subject but none of y'all are getting anything done except argue.

[grim tusk]

Actually yep, this is the most civil whip discussion I’ve had

[golden sonnet]

oh hey, it's a perfect time for the gif Jacob made

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1172704035825000580/1214747369586040923/caption.gif?ex=65fa3ca5&is=65e7c7a5&hm=08db0f0fb9f0addb5071b707a32e32f91e1db03ea34dc9ce0b2f31b666b515ed&

[dense ferry]

Ok I'm going to just write a big fucking thing now

[grim tusk]

Anyways we should stop as Reb said

[royal tapir]

Please do

[uneven adder]

agreed

[royal tapir]

This is just like the DivermanSam quote

[dense locust]

the who now

[royal tapir]

"All whip discussions are now banned, just step away from the computer bro..."

[olive saddle]

the getting banned is "summon the courage to go outside"

[dense ferry]

I have literally never debated about Whips and I can't fucking stand seeing them anymore. It's always just two sides refusing to back down, and I'm fucking done, because every time this is brought up I get stressed, there is a dumb argument here, and we have to come solve it

I genuinely don't care and I will say this now

If I see people discussion about Whips I will shut the conversation down

I'm done

[ripe owl]

Oh you're playing summoner? How about you insert the courage part

[small timber]

leather whips should be able to be crafted from leather... *BANNED*

[dense ferry]

And, for the sake of posterity

[royal tapir]

Double bad timing of messages

[golden sonnet]

holy shit, this is actually so true

[dense ferry]

Whip discussions are discouraged due to their frustrating and fruitless behavior. If a Moderator sees fit, they can shut it down.

[dense ferry]

There

[grim tusk]

Diversam Quote 2

[royal tapir]

We finally whipped out the pin message

[golden sonnet]

killing you

[ripe owl]

[misty lichen]

this is so funny

[ripe owl]

It is so sad that I am not fearful anymore

[small timber]

ok so cal is still following vanilla progression for event right?

Moons = post-Golem
Martian = post-LC (?)
Betsy = post-LC

[royal tapir]

#suggestions-voting message Oh I just noticed this
Another suggestion that can be done in 30 seconds because it Just Makes Sense

[buoyant idol]

New pin unlocked.

[small timber]

replace it with old duke scale instead

[grim tusk]

tbh Im having some fun discussing the forbidden things ever since I got more involved with summoner balancing but enough is enough

[grim tusk]

OD scales is very fun wot

[wide river]

CIT moment

[small timber]

too close in progression (post OD and postDOG)

[golden sonnet]

~~oh, forbidden armor is being changed? ~~

[small timber]

and also likely slightly overpowered

[olive saddle]

ive seen a lot of dislike for OD scales and it makes me sad becasue its so good

[misty lichen]

am i the only person that ever thinks this

[glass arch]

it was made for a reason

[grim tusk]

Could be an option

[glass arch]

(the reason was fryzahh asked for it

[misty lichen]

i feel like it would be so easy to just say “moon items are slightly stronger then regular post plant items” instead of like.. only testing them on post golem bosses because ?

[grave zinc]

@drowsy plank - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Replace the Sulphuric Scales in The Amalgam with Corroded Fossils]

It has officially been implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[small timber]

post aureus and leviathan power for moon make sense for me

(although tbh it is post-plant, but you gonna give events more power to make people actually do them)

[wide river]

Strongest "but it's not balanced" user vs Weakest "it's fun to use" enjoyer

[ashen warren]

^
Another option is making the moons harder and the items more difficult to acquire.
Make the increased strength from post-Golem needed to get the items.

[misty lichen]

rev ais to event minibosses would be good too

[ripe owl]

#suggestions-voting message
Should I try and repost it at some moment?

[misty lichen]

#1072684135199539253 message

[drowsy plank]

perhaps

[wide river]

I sure do love Unknown

[grim tusk]

Message link (please just copy and paste stuff from tierlist if needed)

[misty lichen]

personally i would know

[small timber]

for that imo how the weapons/items are dropped in the event will need to be reworked

[misty lichen]

it’s like 8 pages long on my phone i didn’t want to clog chat

[grim tusk]

Ok valid

[glass arch]

it could be as long as its designed with the rest of the event being in existence instead of a standalone thing

[misty lichen]

of course

[small timber]

to more like OOA where you need to get pass obstacles for items to get dropped
them being effectively miniboss with high hp is not really working

[royal tapir]

It's also something unofficial really

[misty lichen]

moon bosses already have the chance to drop their items super low at early waves and super high at late waves

main issue being you can just throw yourself at the early wave versions 50 times and eventually you’ll get what you want

[small timber]

so it make it worse by making it basically Legendary on low waves

yeah

[misty lichen]

emode makes the items only drop on wave 15

[grim tusk]

Quite overkill

[misty lichen]

well yeah but it’s emode

[small timber]

ok I just remember I had an old suggestion: will OD rest based on pattern instead of based on no. of attack valid

because I will be honest, it is near impossible for someone without wiki to even know OD have attack based rest

because it is just incredibly unintuitive, especially some attack last longer/shorter (eg: the entire sharkron is 1 attack which has super long duration, same as 1 charge)

[lucid marsh]

I just ignore the mechanic entirely and attack constantly

[grim tusk]

Mixed on this
On one hand it does make it more convenient but it also removes more of the paying attention part of his fight

[lucid marsh]

does it ever matter?

[small timber]

imo the can still pay attention to the pattern itself

[dense locust]

^

[small timber]

since well, it still take times to figure out the pattern without wiki

(my assumption is always ideally it can be played without reliance on wiki)

[lucid marsh]

is there ever a reason that the player needs to know when OD takes more or less damage when they can just attack constantly and independently from dodging with most weapons?

[misty lichen]

either way rest phase should just be obvious

[small timber]

eg: I am certain most players do not know the full yharon attack pattern