#suggestions-discussion

1 messages · Page 240 of 1

floral yoke
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The ram dash on the otherhand

sleek turret
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I honestly use kb immunity because I do get comboed by bosses so there's that

floral yoke
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It’s a very valuable tool

north oracle
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yeah i always use asgard's because the ram is cracked lol

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whether it had kb immunity or not

golden sonnet
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And immunity frames means it rarely ever leads to additional hits, and any velocity lost can immediately be recovered with a dash

wide river
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Funny how one of the few bosses where knockback immunity is vital is the same boss that locks the main source of knockback immunity (Skeletron)

floral yoke
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Velocity loss is the biggy

misty lichen
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if you could get knockback immunity in just a regular accessory for skeletron he would be the easiest boss in the game

floral yoke
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But then again dashes put you back to full velocity anyway

north oracle
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skele is one of very few bosses that can reliably combo

misty lichen
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do not get spinned into

sleek turret
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Skeletron Prime also locks you into if you don't have knockback immunity so that's a bit moot honestly

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It doesn't lock you of a knockback immunity source either

golden sonnet
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Skele prime you have a dash and RoD for

sleek turret
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Yeah, but that could be said for every other boss in hardmode

golden sonnet
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Exactly

sleek turret
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You have a dash and RoD for

misty lichen
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yes it’s his primary attack

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when you see the spin start you dash away then dodge the lasers

spark ravine
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I never realized how lenient it was lol

crude geode
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Rams my beloathed

floral yoke
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Ram immunity lasts so long

misty lichen
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i wouldnt mind if just the window was half as long and actually needed timing

floral yoke
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I’ve had times where I thought my dash ended and I still hit through the enemy

tender crater
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It's 12 frames for Asgard valor and its final upgrade

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And 14 for elysian for some reason

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That's really damn lenient

misty lichen
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that’s not the ram window that’s how many iframes you get after ramming

spark ravine
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ram window is based on dash length

misty lichen
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the ram window is the duration of the entire dash, if you extend it via other means the window will be longer

spark ravine
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"base distance of 28 blocks" moment

tender crater
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Oh, i see

tender crater
misty lichen
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Reduce Ram Dash Activation Window or Dash Length

A very common complaint regarding calamity accessory choice is about asgards valor, elysian aegis and asgardian aegis removing incentive to use other dash items with their powerful iframe rams. The original identity of these accessories has been lost over time as people use them more and forget about traditional dash accessories, but they trade dash length and speed for their ramming abilities damage, and some additional defensive benefits from ankh shield. The ramming window lasts for the entire duration of the dash however, removing any timing or skill required and granting the player the ability to freely pass through all boss contact damage at will. Calamity gameplay as a side effect became centered around it’s existence. Ramming was most likely not meant to be a spammable damage ignoring ability becoming required for the entirety of the game, and I think reducing the ram activation window to around half of the dash length would bring back the timing and range skill requirement originally intended for the reward of simultaneously ignoring damage and dealing high damage

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is this good

grim tusk
golden sonnet
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The "gameplay as a side effect became ramming was most likely" doesn't make sense

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Feels like two sentences mixed?

misty lichen
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becoming*

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lol

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uh

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ok yeah i forgot to finish a sentence

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fixed

wide river
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Looks like the videos are too big

tender crater
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Very good proposal yes

misty lichen
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can i just make a link to them

wide river
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A link should work instead, yeah

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If cropping or compressing the videos isn't an option, that will work just fine

crude geode
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Fuck Rams

grizzled dome
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I have a joke suggestion which I'm not actually going to post for real, and then also a real suggestion which I want people's thoughts on (is it technologically reasonable? Did I word it correctly? Is it even a good idea?)

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The joke suggestion is to add a boss called the Parathyroid Gland of Cthulhu. The real suggestion... okay I typed up my draft, lemme just copy-paste it in.

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Give Vanilla NPCs Opinions on Modded NPCs/Biomes

All of the NPCs added by the Calamity Mod have their happiness modified by their biome and the presence of other modded and unmodded NPCs, as normal. However, none of the Vanilla NPCs have their happiness affected in any way by living near an NPC or in a biome added by the mod. This leads to odd situations where there are multiple biomes which nobody has any preferences on, and where NPC housing is less affected by the modded NPCs. Some potential suggestions include:

  • Angler likes the Sunken Sea and dislikes the Sea King.
  • The Wizard likes the Archmage.
  • The Pirate likes the Bandit, but the Goblin Tinker dislikes her.
    Is including the potential examples a bad idea?
drowsy plank
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isnt this more of a tmod issue

golden sonnet
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Angler would like the sea king, he would try to catch and eat him

buoyant idol
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Nah he’s too big and won’t stop complaining about how the Angler keeps killing his friends. Angler should say that he feels remorse around him and he doesn’t like that.

misty lichen
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he is incapable of emotion

misty lichen
grizzled dome
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Vanilla NPCs will have new additional quotes that can be seen under certain conditions.

Angler If the Sea King is present "Someone tell [Name of Sea King] to quit trying to throw me out of town, it's not going to work."

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But yeah I'll drop the suggestions. Does it seem like a decent suggestion otherwise?

olive saddle
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is this why legitimately no one gives two flying fucks about the astral

drowsy plank
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im pretty sure much like achievements there just wasn't a ton of infrastructure for modded npc/biome x vanilla npc support, or at least, i remember hearing that once

odd cradle
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Yeah I've been working on a mod that just adds town npcs and pets and whatnot

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There's a decent amount there but it's surprising just how much is missing

grim tusk
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^

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Theres no modded biome support for happiness iirc

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Otherwise we would have made the NPCs dislike crags already

drowsy plank
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is it for any modded biome or just vanilla npcs and modded biomes? bc the wiki lists SCal as disliking the crags rn

grim tusk
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Vanilla i think, im not sure

umbral gazelle
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so if its listed as biome it might be able to

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idk

odd cradle
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I mean, we did manage to turn the Sky and Underworld into actual biomes town NPCs consider in their happiness and changed some vanilla NPCs to like those biomes

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But that may only apply to vanilla biomes

small timber
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This is from my own experience that I am not sure if true or not

Did you test with in air ram? I am not sure if it is because of my movement, but sometimes the dash ram definitely dont last the entire dash duration, I am unsure if you can "cancel" it by moving the opposite direction or something

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The only main issue I have with reducing the ram duration (as in activation window) is that currently it already sometimes just didnt work (especially against target that are too fast?) , and ESPECIALLY when you time it perfectly. I am not sure if it have a small downtime between you press the dash button and the ram become active or something, but I find that the very first few frames of ram just doesnt work most of the time, and this might make it even less consistent; but yeah in this case I think the above should be fixed first before properly reducing the activation window

misty lichen
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it’s hard to test in the air since the target dummy is so small but i can do that yeah

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ive NEVER had the issue of ramming into an enemy too “early” and it not working

misty lichen
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which is the reason why dashes are so short with starboard on, since it cuts your momentum by a LOT

crude geode
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does high movement speed increase or decrease the time before you momentum stops?

wide river
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I can't say for certain off the top of my head, but I can quickly check in-game

grim tusk
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New enchilada pfp

crude geode
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Based

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So based

golden sonnet
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wtf

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I got a disclaimer and I still didn't expect it

small timber
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cancelled early if your momentum stop

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if not mistaken

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ram not starting in the first few frame is particularly against a fast target, slow target it is ok

royal tapir
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insert $20 dollars obtained video

small timber
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but yeah I always hold the opinion that giving ninja gear scarf effect is WAY too much, on the other hand this suggestion got enough votes but because bot is down it was not sent to devs, but I think it might be worth considering?

image.png
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the execution part of cause can be different, but this is just the general idea

wide river
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Seems that increasing movement speed increases dash length, rather than time spent dashing
Can't tell if the time is any different but it seems almost identical

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Which lines up with my initial thoughts

small timber
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imagine actually checking for grammar (can't be me)

image.png
wide river
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Improveme

crude geode
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sick request

grim tusk
small timber
misty lichen
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i really feel like ninja gear buff is the opposite of what you want to do because in a vacuum it’s an AMAZING accessory

small timber
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amazing in a vacuum if you are already good at the game

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90s dodge is completey unusable for average player

misty lichen
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i used it in my first 3 playthroughs and it felt really busted

small timber
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even if you nerf the current asgard valor by:

cutting ram activation window in half + cutting dash length in half + remove kb immune + remove all debuff immunity + and then basically remove the defense bonus it give; THEN MNG might be better than it

misty lichen
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even if you’re getting hit every 9 seconds that’s effectively 10% of the damage you take getting ignored

small timber
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that is how vast of a difference in power level between asgard's valor and MNG is

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you can get hit by an inconsequential attack and then get damaged by a big attack

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it does not always equate to 10% damage taken reduced; sometimes it is below or it can be more if you dodged a huge attack with it

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but chances are it is less because there are more small attacks and less big attacks

misty lichen
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i don’t know if inconsequential attacks even happen by post plantera

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i just think people underestimate the mobility given by long dash a ton

small timber
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anahita bubble or frostspear or levi boulder is less than their charge attack
pbg mine or rocket is a lot less damage than charge
ravager fist is less than ravager ramming into you or even head beam
fishron bubble is a lot less than charge (though shark and charge is comparable)
eol is quite similar except for the charge
.... ML eyes vs laser
.... even later things like provi star/small fireball vs laser, scal dart vs brimstone monster or even just hellblast etc

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there are a LOT of situation where you can dodge a much less damaging attack (considering defense) compare to possibly dodging a much higher damaging attack, in fact because smaller attacks appear much more often chances are you dodge said smaller attacks instead

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the issue is MNG is only good if you are already good at the game, meanwhile Asgard's Valor is much more forgiving even if you cut its activation window in half

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which is why the suggestion above did not make MNG more forgiving/room for mistake, but rather emphasize on giving more option to dodge to allow average player to also be able to utilize it, while experienced player of course also can utilize it much more but still have a distinct identity difference with valor

wide river
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Ram dashes fall short when the enemy relies mainly on projectiles (or the main boss is not easily rammable)
The only issue is that bosses like that are few and far between

small timber
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and in the worst case scenario, even if you cant ram, you get a dash + kb immune in 1 slot

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and some defense

wide river
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Indeed

misty lichen
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so it’s just kinda a you don’t know until you try it, maybe it’s a massive difference and puts them at basically the same level or maybe it changes little in the long run

small timber
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you dont have to ram into the boss, you can ram away for it similar to how you use mng

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it is basically just extra insurance (if the dash length is substantially difference of course this will actually changes it)

wide river
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I do like the idea of making Asgard's dash more precise
Because if the issue is Asgard's dash being able to nullify damage, then it being more precise makes it not quite as braindead of a damage nullification
Then, you have the scarves and belts for longer dashes as well as added security for casual players in the form of the dodge, and the ram and bonk shields for more skill-based dashes

misty lichen
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ok wow i never noticed statis ninja belt was the exact same dash as mng and not better wires

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that would explain why it feels so bad

wide river
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Post-Moon Lord dash upgrade that doesn't change the dash + added effects that aren't useful post-Moon Lord (wall climbing, fall damage resistance, ability to swim, etc)
Lovely

misty lichen
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it would be one thing if it was atleast half of frog leg

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but fucking 1/4th of frog leg is pitiful lmao

wide river
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Don't forget how 75% of Frog Gear just disappears when you upgrade it again into Void Sash

sleek turret
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Fucked up honestly

small timber
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item losing stats when combined is normal honestly

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main issue is not just lossing frog gear stat, but the fact that it gained nothing else

sleek turret
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Except when it's the Asgard line

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It only keeps growing

wide river
sleek turret
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What even is the difference?

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Frog Gear gives the same amount of jump speed as Frog Leg right

wide river
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Yes

sleek turret
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It's not like you need the ability to swim either

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The ability to climb and everything is integrated on MNG

novel belfry
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seeing the godslayer inferno debuff again makes me think

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why is there ANOTHER fire debuff after Providence and her relevant stuff

sleek turret
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If you really need to swim (for water arenas, I guess...) you could pick gills and flippers potion

wide river
small timber
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but what is

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just what if

floral yoke
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Godslayer should be cold type because uh, yeah

sleek turret
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Calamity is a fire themed mod actually,

small timber
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you can make vulnerability curse fire debuff also

wide river
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Fire debuffs were the cool thing to do back in the day, back before debuff types were a thing
Now we suffer the consequences

novel belfry
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im thinking that Godslayer Inferno should be changed to a not-fire debuff

sleek turret
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Can we have another electricity debuff for God's sake

novel belfry
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yes that is where i was going

misty lichen
sleek turret
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Like for classes like summoner is another small aggregate that compared to the bullshittery that fire debuffs have (a billion modifiers) is almost irrelevant

floral yoke
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Dragonfolly could have one, Auric could have one tied to it(?)

wide river
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What if
Storm Weaver gets an electricity debuff (one other than Electrified)
And Ceaseless Void gets a cold debuff

sleek turret
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If it weren't for Voltaic Jelly of course

misty lichen
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they probably have debuff plans

sleek turret
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I heard they plan on making debuffs more worthy of use but idk about that exactly either

floral yoke
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At least make debuffs interesting outside of dot effects

royal tapir
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There's already plans for Dragonfolly electric debuff and to make GSI not fire

wide river
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Maybe debuffs are just inherently a flawed concept in this game
I feel like most debuff conversations get here eventually

floral yoke
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That’s good news

royal tapir
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soon tm

misty lichen
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an undecided amount of seconds

floral yoke
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Debuffs are either broken or useless

sleek turret
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They're a very small addition in vanilla honestly

floral yoke
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I love dots in games though

small timber
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the issue is DOT effect is by far the less detrimental effect you can give

sleek turret
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They're a bit handy sometimes in some cases

small timber
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other debuff effect might create a "lose more" situation

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eg: movement slow make it more easily get hit by subsequent hit, plague used to reduce your vision = get hit more

sleek turret
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In Calamity they're buffed to another extreme

small timber
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defense reduction (eg: old radiation poisoning?) basically is just same as DOT for 2nd hit

novel belfry
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Change Godslayer Inferno from being a fire-based debuff to an electric debuff

Godslayer Inferno happens to be the middle of an absurdly large amount of fire debuffs in Calamity's post-ml section, sandwiched between the Holy Flames of Providence and the Dragonfire of Yharon and Calamitas's brimstone stuff. Practically all iconic bosses of Post-ML Calamity are fire based, so having one important debuff be changed to another debuff, especially an electric debuff considering the comically small number (2!) of them. And the DoG's godslayer inferno seems to be the easiest one to change, since Providence has the Auric Soul of fire and Yharon and Calamitas are inherently fire-based fellows too.

sleek turret
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Shadowflame gets its base DoT damage multiplied by 3x

wide river
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Debuff that changes in damage depending on the duration that it's inflicted for
This surely won't be a bad idea

novel belfry
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okay this sucks but hey

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im trying

wide river
floral yoke
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I think they already have plans for GSI

sleek turret
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Combined by the fact you have debuff resistance/weakness and also Slime Gun

novel belfry
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i see

sleek turret
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You can easily get almost 50 DoT pre-hm

novel belfry
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im just thinking that electric type is probably the best debuff type for GSI to be changed towards

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PLUS! you can have it be previewed by the Storm Weaver

wide river
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It'd make more sense than Hide of Astrum Deus having a post-Moon Lord debuff on it for some reason

umbral gazelle
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speaking of suggestion what punishment will you got if you steal a suggestion from here and post it in #suggestions-posting before the original writer

sleek turret
floral yoke
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Just as long as PML has more elemental variety

wide river
sleek turret
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how I feel like after doing pure debuff calc on some bosses

floral yoke
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How many post ml sickness debuffs are there, cold?

sleek turret
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Fun fact, Caustic Frog staff gives 12 seconds of Irradiated

floral yoke
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Is exo freeze still a thing?

sleek turret
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There's Nightwither as a post-ML cold debuff

wide river
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Exo Freeze was removed somewhat recently

sleek turret
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And Glacial State also?

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Not removed

olive saddle
wide river
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Glacial State is still in the game
Just Exo Freeze got purged

sleek turret
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But it's also inflicted by some post-ML weapons I think

floral yoke
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What is nightwither anyway?

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Fire??

misty lichen
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cold

sleek turret
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The opposite to Holy Flames

floral yoke
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Ah so there is a post ml cold

misty lichen
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which would be pretty good for the tier because old duke isnt resistant to cold

sleek turret
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It think it's like moon related

floral yoke
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Well, not quite post ml but

misty lichen
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but nightwither is forced into being not postml level damage because it’s on like 2 preml items

floral yoke
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Still closest thing to post ml cold

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Unless I am dumb

wide river
sleek turret
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Funny how Brain Rot is an infection themed debuff and it isn't on the infection debuffs list

floral yoke
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I completely forgot brain rot was a debuff

sleek turret
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It's to match Burning Blood essentially

floral yoke
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What does it even do again?

misty lichen
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brain rot is typeless i think?

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which is weird

sleek turret
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Uhh 25 DoT according to the wiki

floral yoke
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Oh just more dot

sleek turret
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Yeah

floral yoke
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At least electrified is an interesting dot, if you move you take more damage

sleek turret
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What even is Miracle Blight though

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Is it electricity?

floral yoke
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Blight would imply sickness? Not actually sure though

wide river
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Miracle Blight is typeless iirc

floral yoke
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Understandable honestly

sleek turret
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Doesn't Miracle Blight have like some visual fire effects when debuffed from it

royal tapir
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Miracle Blight is typeless

floral yoke
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Some of these debuffs are so hard to keep track of

novel belfry
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heres uh my attempt at cataloguing which debuff is last relevant in progression. certain debuffs have nothing because i don't know if they're useful or nah

image.png
floral yoke
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Or just don’t do enough to remind you of them which is honestly an issue with debuffs themselves

sleek turret
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Found something silly

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Hellfire has the same DoT as Shadowflame

novel belfry
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OH FUCK

grim tusk
royal tapir
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Kami Flu is Hardmode

novel belfry
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oh fuck wrong frost buff

grim tusk
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also Kami Flui is Hm

wide river
floral yoke
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Plague is hm too

novel belfry
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im aware

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this is for when they're last relevant basically

royal tapir
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Plague post-Moon Lord is crazy

sleek turret
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Combine it with the fact you'll be getting the most of Hellfire with Hellfire Treads you can easily get more than 100 DoT pre-hm

grim tusk
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Euthrophication is Hardmode (its only from Abyssal Mirror iirc)

novel belfry
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only there becasue there's some plague stuff post-moonlord. somehow

royal tapir
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Some Sunken Sea weapons inflict it

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I know a good amount of the Giant Clam drops do

novel belfry
misty lichen
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one bad weapon and one bad accessory XD

grim tusk
grim tusk
royal tapir
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The last Sulphuric Poisoning in Hardmode was removed this update

grim tusk
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oh nvm then

misty lichen
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sulp poison is old duke drops and random as drops that they wanted to superbuff

novel belfry
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um actually there is a bunch of things

image.png
misty lichen
sleek turret
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Scourge Of The Seas inflicts Sulfuric Poisoning

royal tapir
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Consequently, Sulphuric Poisoning also got a slight buff

sleek turret
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Wait is also On Fire! buffed by Calamity

novel belfry
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updated. remember, this is for when debuffs are last relevant basically

image.png
sleek turret
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6 DoT?

grim tusk
novel belfry
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electrified? I HAVE ZERO FUCKING CLUE where it is last relevant

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cause its the ONLY ELECTRIC DOT AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

grim tusk
sleek turret
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Wiki page for On Fire! says that it inflicts 6 DoT regardless of the system

grim tusk
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there were plans for some Electic DoT variants that havent been made iirc

floral yoke
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Okay but what is galvantic corrosion

novel belfry
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tesla potion stun

floral yoke
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Oh

novel belfry
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or slow but basically same thing

sleek turret
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Summoner inflicts it practically all the time

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Electrified, I mean

wide river
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Summoner when debuff spam

floral yoke
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Summoner

sleek turret
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Summoner people when I introduce them Plasma Rod + Slime Gun + Hellfire Treads (they suddenly like to play summoner even more)

grim tusk
misty lichen
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that’s not what they meant by releveant

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they meant being a real debuff meant to contribute to your dps (aka not thrown on for low reason)

novel belfry
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actually if we're going by that

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why is plague still there again

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stuns have their own category because they're not dots, they are technically relevant always

misty lichen
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arent slows affected by type resistance/weakness or something?

sleek turret
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using aestheticus on exo mechs

novel belfry
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okay. this is for dots with "elements", and when are they last relevant. shadowflame doesnt get to be post-ml because why does Spazm STILL INFLICT IT IT MAKES ZERO SENSE

image.png
worthy fiber
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yummy purple

royal tapir
sleek turret
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Even if Spazm didn't inflict Shadowflame it'd be still a bit relevant on hardmode (early) because of the Goblin Army upgrade

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You get Pygmy Neckacle with DoT and a lot of other Shadowflame weapons

novel belfry
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its a joke i just dont like that spazm rev+ still has shadowflame instead of cursed flames

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which is like

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why

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why does the green eyebal not fire green fire

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his fucking exo counterpart fires green fire

misty lichen
novel belfry
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the fucking upgrade

misty lichen
novel belfry
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i mean...

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yeah

sleek turret
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Honestly Rev+ Spazm firing Shadowflame breath is such a boring and lazy change

novel belfry
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but like its so weird

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i've had

sleek turret
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It's like if we painted Retinazer's lasers to green and inflicted Cursed Flames instead

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Just for the "extra difficulty"

floral yoke
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Side note imagine if it inflicted ichor

novel belfry
misty lichen
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i mean.. thats what fire debuffs are HDfailure

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thats kinda what theyve always been

novel belfry
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i've reposted this suggestion and unfortunately it didnt get enough votes

misty lichen
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he couldve had normal fireballs that inflicted on fire

sleek turret
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Difference with Cursed Flames and Shadowflame is that Cursed Flames doesn't have an inmmunity source for the fight

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While Shadowflame has it via The First Shadowflame

royal tapir
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Meanwhile Shadowflame's will be dying

novel belfry
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but i dont like the green eyeball (also a lot of resprites of spazm by fans give it green stuff even in p2, so it makes it REALLY jarring when it goes purple) firing purple fire and not green fire

novel belfry
royal tapir
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🙏

sleek turret
misty lichen
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would you take a dark souls reference that is pygmy necklace but purple

floral yoke
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E mode moment

sleek turret
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Just for the sake of like, oh wow both evils or smth idk

misty lichen
sleek turret
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The debuff stacks

misty lichen
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eternity mode does a lot of wacky things that’s kinda its point

novel belfry
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eternity has the right mindset of making unique debuffs that arent just dots

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but a lot of them are super annoying unfortunately

sleek turret
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The limit is 20 seconds and every attack inflicts it like 5 seconds more I think?

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It's a very tight fight also

floral yoke
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That is one downside to making unique debuffs though, making it balanced and also not be annoying user end

sleek turret
royal tapir
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Wait, I just remembered
It's funny that it was brought up Spazmatism shooting shadowflames

north oracle
royal tapir
north oracle
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Holy shit he got the ourple

misty lichen
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holy fvck two of them…

sleek turret
#

redigit plz add cool visuals to spazm fire pilar visual pl.z... make it flmaehtower visuals...,.

floral yoke
#

Truly corrupted moment

royal tapir
#

I forgot if he also shoots cursed fireballs in phase 3

misty lichen
#

i mean, shadow fireballs home and cursed fireballs are regular

floral yoke
#

I remember fireballs

royal tapir
#

Okay yeah he does

misty lichen
#

(wearing mothron wings and angel treads here)

#

i dont see any issues with explicitly making rams timing reliant, i mean people will complain because their favorite item is nerfed but of course they will

#

i suppose ninja gear line could get minor distance buffs too (especially statis because god lmao)

floral yoke
#

Rams requiring a bit more skill would make the game a little healthier, at least in hopes of adding some other dash variety

misty lichen
#

could i make another semi generic “buff statis ninja belt” suggestion or would that have to go in balance reports

#

realizing that it’s literally just master ninja gear with 6% jump speed is yeah

floral yoke
#

Imagining if acceleration/deceleration could be used without it being too strong

#

The deceleration is actually really useful for precision, so not sure how that will work in balance, but to be honest worth a shot?

novel belfry
#

im more interested in just buffing the other dash accessories instead of nerfing rams

#

although making the asgard line disconnected from ankh shield line is still an option imo

small timber
#

maybe was an old bug that was fixed, because at that time I used it against malice ftw yharon and sometimes it just doesn't work

#

especially where I timed it on point, at that time I have to actually intentionally mistimed my dash by dashing too early for it to work
but yeah as stated it is mostly against exceptionally fast target (the initial frame not working issue)

misty lichen
golden sonnet
#

as I know even after solar was given 12 iframes like other rams it can be very weird with giving immunity when ramming

small timber
#

no was asgardian aegis

#

but yeah, it may be either old bug that was fixed; or literally just malice ftw yharon

misty lichen
sand marlin
#

Honestly it could just be
Puppets attach
Minions attack
Puppets explode

#

A very basic whip-like interaction

#

Not really, the ankh effects have 0 use in boss fights, knockback immunity is the only important thing in ankh and it's because knockback is horribly executed in terraria and it with the immunity against stupid vanilla debuffs should stay on the most relevant line because these should by default not be experienced for the same reason as knockback.
Honestly I would say ankh shield's effects need to be more permanent without relying on an accessory line after it's at the stage where it would be upgraded to fit the same usage except the accessory line in question would not be relevant for this.

tender crater
#

Saying that debuffs shouldn't be experienced is a big stretch, specially considering that cal already addressed the long debuff durations of vanilla's higher difficulties and gutted the more obnoxious ones (chilled from entering icy water)

#

They're a decent form of counterplay against defense stacking since their damage does not discriminate, it's why fights like calclone still can drain your HP really fast even if you're going full tank, keeping said builds more incheck

sand marlin
#

What does DoT have to do with ankh's immunities

tender crater
#

Oh, right

#

I thought you meant debuffs in general, woops

sand marlin
#

Debuffs that make you more likely to get inflicted again are the worst type, this should absolutely be stayed away from

#

In fact any mechanic that isn't without enough of a reward

proper granite
sand marlin
#

Thank god anti gravity gives immunity

#

I literally never noticed it before because I always had it on or something

tender crater
#

Some of the debuffs from the line are fine, armor crunch is just a temporary damage taken penalty, and curse is just a temporary dps loss, but one can focus on dodging while waiting for it to run out

sand marlin
#

Curse is not just a temporary dps loss

tender crater
#

The issue arrives almost exclusively with the debuffs that hinder movement

proper granite
#

silence is a dps loss... for one class

sand marlin
#

Curse leaves you vulnerable to fending off attacks

#

In which case you are likely to be attacked again

#

You can't knock the enemy back or anything

#

Simply stuck without any form of defense besides hoping you can dodge it around for a while

proper granite
#

curse disables grappling hook

tender crater
#

As far as i know, the only non-boss that can inflict curse is the floating 💀 heads in the dungeon

#

Wait, BoC can't proc curse

#

Right?

sand marlin
#

Which can go through walls

tender crater
#

I've never seen that happen

sand marlin
#

Making it harder to deal with

tender crater
#

They can't be knocked back in the first place

sand marlin
#

Brain can inflict cursed

proper granite
#

it ended a hardcore attempt

#

of mine

tender crater
#

I had, no fucking idea that was a thing what

sand marlin
proper granite
#

3% chance to disable grappling hook and all weapons when creepers hit you lolllll

tender crater
#

I've sink hundreds of hours on both modded and vanilla and i had no idea that was a thing

#

I guess you learn something new everyday

proper granite
#

boc can give you like every debuff that ankh shield prevents

#

poison, darkness, cursed, bleeding, confused, slow, weak, silenced, broken armor

sand marlin
#

The only reason BoC still has those debuffs is probably because of Laudanum

proper granite
#

only one missing is petrification (thank the fucking lord)

sand marlin
#

That early on you can spare a slot for it

#

Though grinding for it is kinda stupid in general

proper granite
#

i wish they gave laudanum/HoD/stress pills more interesting ways of acquiring them rather than just being a very rare drop from a boss

sand marlin
#

Get inflicted by cursed 10 times in a row and your blood produces laudanum due to immune gain somehow Idk

tender crater
#

I still don't know what the point of those accessory's orthodox obtain method is

dreamy trellis
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

#

fawkin' beats me man

fossil finch
#

It's just because they were added hundreds of billions of eons ago

#

There's no really a point they just Were and stayed there

#

This applies to like half of calamity

umbral gazelle
#

im thinking of making a suggestion about making draedon dont explode his recon body for no reason if its somehow left undamaged during closing monologue but idk if its going to be valid CirrusBreakdown

frail fox
#

Add Meteorite Bars to Smoking Comet’s Recipe

Smoking Comet is a pre-boss yo-yo that most people have probably never even used. Sure, it’s relatively new but even considering that I doubt many people have ever used it or knew it existed without checking the wiki. There are a few reasons for this, such as having an odd recipe and having to compete with the hundred other pre-boss melee weapons, including the 4 (5) other pre-boss yo-yos. I also think it doesn’t really have an “identity” besides just being starfury but a yo-yo

This is why I propose adding meteor bars to it’s recipe (effectively making it post-Eater of Worlds/Brain of Cthulhu). Firstly, I believe that it would see more usage at that tier as a viable yo-yo for Hive Mind and Perforators (there is currently none). Secondly, it would help the item to have more of an “identity” as a meteorite weapon and not some obscure pre-boss yo-yo with a weird recipe. Speaking of the recipe, I think that adding meteorite bars would help to make it more known as somebody could be looking at meteorite crafts and see it there. The rest of the recipe should stay the same, but I just think adding meteorite to change it’s spot in progression would help a lot in how much people will use it, as well as reduce the number of pre-boss melee weapons and to just give it more of an “identity” overall. Also, I believe that the name and sprite of the weapon make adding meteorite a good fit.

And yes, I did get permission from the donor to suggest this.

#

Think there’s anything I should change or reword?

sand marlin
#

Good sugg

wide river
drowsy plank
royal tapir
frail fox
#

Alright then

#

Also here’s the permission

IMG_6245.png IMG_6246.png
grizzled dome
#

Speaking as someone who recently started a new melee run and only crafted Smoking Comet because I randomly saw it on the wiki when looking at yo-yos and then thought "wow, this seems very good, especially when compared to the many other pre-boss yo-yos" and then got a "broken" one, thus rendering it functionally unusable: 🫡

serene vapor
grizzled dome
#

I didn't have the goblin tinker unlocked at the time. Now that I do have him unlocked, I think it might be obsolete. ...I do have something I should reforge, though, so thanks for the reminder!

grim tusk
drowsy plank
#

goblins are so fuckin weird

#

by the time you can usually beat/spawn them you dont really have a reason to go underground

#

which is where tinkerer spawns

#

like i guess if the idea is you'd go mine demonite/crimtane at that point then maybe i could see it??

olive saddle
#

For...some reason...

grave zincBOT
#

@golden sonnet - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Add a Renewable Source of Astral Chests]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

#

@solemn sleet - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Hive Pack Upgrade]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

golden sonnet
#

Astral chest real

sand marlin
olive saddle
#

Aaah fair

golden sonnet
sand marlin
#

Sprite hell clueless

golden sonnet
#

I hate you for being correct

sand marlin
#

Dreams shattered

#

💪

#

I'm a good human being for making people lose hope joking in all seriousness

floral yoke
#

I’d sprite astral key ngl

#

Thing is I doubt devs will bother because it’s such a silly thing to worry about lol

crude geode
#

I refuse to believe there are more than two spriters working at any time on things other than Yharon’s resprite

#

Where it is taking the entire state of California to sprite it

floral yoke
#

Well to be fair, there is a major content overhaul coming up

#

And Yharon’s resprite is just not on high priority anyway

grave zincBOT
#

@proper granite - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[The player should be guided towards some of the more obscure content.]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

#

@atomic shell - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Clarify what Crimson Armor’s set bonus does for life regeneration.]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

proper granite
#

nice

grave zincBOT
#

@errant wind - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make a crafting recipe for magic conch]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

atomic shell
#

still have no clue what it actually does

uneven adder
#

quadruples natural regen in cal

#

which is completely separate from the normal +1 life regen in normal regen accessories

drowsy plank
#

sure hope it has pearl shards in it at least

grave zincBOT
#

@atomic shell - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Clarify what Crimson Armor’s set bonus does for life regeneration.]

It has officially been implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

royal tapir
#

Lemme mark this for a second time HDfailure

atomic shell
#

could’ve sworn I saw it in the changelogs already lmao

wide river
#

So good it got implemented twice

grave zincBOT
#

@olive saddle - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Add more multiplayer based items like Affliction]

It has been reviewed by the devs, and for one reason or another they decided it would be best not to implement it.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

distant gyro
#

i forgot to poke the bot out of that suggestion

grave zincBOT
#

@olive saddle - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Change the fragments to only craft their class specific weapons]

It has been reviewed by the devs, and for one reason or another they decided it would be best not to implement it.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

#

@muted cradle - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Change the hallowed bars recipe ore requirement along with making the veins slightly larger]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

distant gyro
#

and these

grave zincBOT
#

@high nest - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[# Reduce or Revert the Graveyard Tombstone Requirement]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

high nest
#

Nice

grave zincBOT
#

@high nest - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[# Reduce or Revert the Graveyard Tombstone Requirement]

It has officially been implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

distant gyro
#

12

sand marlin
distant gyro
#

shit i mean 13

high nest
#

Double nice

distant gyro
#

hope you're fine with that

sand marlin
#

The unlucky 13 CH_Thonk

#

Perfect number

high nest
#

Me? It's not my mod, I do think its very thematic and a good compromise between current and vanilla tho.

#

Doesn't matter if I'm happy in the end, long as the suggestion is useful for devs

distant gyro
#

to whom it may concern idk

novel belfry
#

amazing

errant wind
olive saddle
#

hard to do

olive saddle
distant gyro
olive saddle
#

that actually is a good reason

#

7 melee weapons from 1 pillar can be very overloading

distant gyro
#

if it is merged together into one pillar then defeating one pillar will give you more branching options than literally anything else in the game

#

a boss will drop 2 weapons for your class... maybe 3 at most

#

at some point they all compete to be your chosen weapon and then none of them wins

misty lichen
#

id rather have that overload of options than having to scout out everything i can craft for my class for like 5 minutes straight

errant wind
olive saddle
#

#suggestions-posting message not a bad sugg. this combined with a tooltip or smth saying that the cell and charging stations are important could go a long way

deft yew
#

I've tried searching for it in the currently being voted suggestions but found nothing, are there any plans for adding more whips and whips modifiers to calamity? Currently, we're being progression capped in this area at EoL, which is about half of the game done.

buoyant idol
wide river
#

(The message I linked is a dev source saying they'll add whips)

deft yew
deft yew
# buoyant idol To be added, summoner balance nightmare.

Yeah, summoner is a hard class to mess on, I suppose
One way I thought about adding more whips is to first nerf the vanilla ones, since they are VERY strong at any point of the game (except post ML IMO), and fill the gaps made by the nerf with the Calamity ones.

#

Now for the modifiers I have no idea how that could be done in a balanced way, but it would be very cool to see it done if possible.

wide river
#

Well, a problem point for Calamity adding whips is that vanilla is planning on adding 5-6 or so in 1.4.5, a good few of which fill up a lot of the tiers Calamity could take for their own
For example: Calamity is planning on adding a whip obtained after the Hive Mind/Perforators, but vanilla in 1.4.5 is adding whips available around the Eater of Worlds/Brain of Cthulhu from what we've seen
There's also the Stardust Pillar-themed whip, the Moon Lord-themed whip, and a few others

quiet kettle
#

But what about post dragonfolly or something?

wide river
#

Fortunately for Calamity, though, there's only so far vanilla can add whips
So Calamity's got a whole section of the game to work with for whips, just anything pre-Moon Lord might conflict

quiet kettle
#

Do you think they'll add whip accessories?

wide river
#

Vanilla might, yeah

#

They added accessories for yoyos back when they were "the thing", and considering it seems like whips are the new favorite child, it's likely

grim tusk
gaunt needle
#

the
summoner rework info

2Q.png
quiet kettle
#

i really want whip dyes

grim tusk
quiet kettle
#

jesus christ, so many nerfs

wide river
#

Well yea
Those particular whips are known for being stupid (besides the two unreleased ones but based off of Kaleidoscope we fear for the worst)

real tapir
#

I think there should be a summon that digs in the ground and launches up basically like eater of world's or in other words it wouldn't be able to fly so it's a ground summon but instead of getting longer with each summon it would add another worm

deft yew
buoyant idol
drowsy plank
#

^

#

was gonna say that lol

novel belfry
#

same

sand marlin
#

Not bad sugg

#

I don't think there is a suitable material though

spark ravine
#

when in doubt, throw in a fragment

dreamy trellis
#

Solar fragments go wahoo

spark ravine
sand marlin
#

Uh

drowsy plank
#

guh

#

wtf

sand marlin
#

And have no stars I think

#

FOUR

#

It keeps going?

spark ravine
#

five and counting

#

seven

sand marlin
#

@drowsy plank do you wanna just ping nycro?

quiet kettle
#

jesus christ you posted it so much

errant cradle
#

what

sand marlin
#

It's a bot

errant cradle
#

the fuck?

#

Is the bot okay???

drowsy plank
#

@inland saddle bot broke

odd geyser
#

what the fuck

sand marlin
#

Anyway yeah it just broke

drowsy plank
#

oh fuck there's like 12 of them

errant cradle
#

Yeah

#

It's not stopping and Nycro isn't online either

inland saddle
#

Wtf

sand marlin
inland saddle
#

How does this even

#

What

patent nimbus
#

discord bot development in a nutshell?

inland saddle
#

Pretty much

errant cradle
inland saddle
#

There is literally 0 code I wrote that could have caused this

floral yoke
#

It REALLY wanted to push that suggestion

inland saddle
#

It has to be either discord or my library

remote mauve
#

why the fuck is the " add meteorite bars to smoking comets recipe " repeated like 100 times

help.png
floral yoke
#

That’s what we are wondering too

remote mauve
#

like i get it its a good suggestions

sand marlin
inland saddle
#

DISCORD??

wide river
#

I'm not sure about you but I think the suggestion got into voting

errant cradle
quiet kettle
#

30??????

remote mauve
#

alright good

#

ig lol

inland saddle
#

Did someone mess with the bot perms

errant cradle
#

Very certain we didn't

inland saddle
#

Alright good

#

Just making sure

golden sonnet
#

This is golden

sand marlin
#

This is smoking

inland saddle
#

I'm restarting the bot

#

If it does something like this again

#

!test

#

!t

#

Oh right

#

I only put that in dev server

quiet kettle
#

luckily it stopped

inland saddle
#

Well if it messes up again ping me

inner anvil
#

Nycro's bots trying to work for 1 nanosecond.

inland saddle
#

I can take it offline while I resolve the library issue

inland saddle
#

This literally isn't even me lmao

inner anvil
#

I know.

inland saddle
inner anvil
#

Even if you do it perfectly, there's a universal law stopping you from making them work.

inland saddle
#

I don't know how the NohitBot has evaded the judgement of Random Discord Event so far

sand marlin
#

Murphy's Law

inland saddle
#

Like actually it's invincible

#

I would honestly be relieved if it went down at at least one point

quiet kettle
#

we

#

might need to remove it

#

and make another

sand marlin
#

?

quiet kettle
#

i hope not

inland saddle
#

The bot works fine lol

#

Discord is the issue

quiet kettle
inland saddle
#

Yes there is

sand marlin
#

Yes, discord

inland saddle
#

And that problem is going to occur regardless of who makes the bot or how well it's made

golden sonnet
inland saddle
drowsy plank
errant cradle
#

something something discord is a flawless application

floral yoke
#

Rely on Discord for anything challenge

quiet kettle
#

discord sucks at big images

inland saddle
#

I mean like

gray bone
#

you could stop at "discord sucks"

inland saddle
#

This isn't even an issue I've seen before

#

Ever

inland saddle
#

Hopefully it should be fixed now

#

I don't see any errors yet

#

If that happens again that means Discord made a breaking internal change (more common than you'd think)

#

And I just need to update my library, which is very easy but will take me a minute if I have to

quiet kettle
#

i can keep an eye on it everyday if you want

inland saddle
#

I usually get pings whenever something happens lol

sand marlin
#

I'm sure there's enough sugg regulars here to notify immediately

hybrid cedar
#

can confirm

inland saddle
#

I love discord I love discord I love discord I lo

#

Figma nuts in your mouth lmao gottem

IMG_6246.png
north oracle
crude geode
#

I think Nycro finally broke

#

Gonna need a new bot manager

novel belfry
#

and i've already made a nut joke with rolph

lucid marsh
#

I heard something about being able to release the plague at any point a while ago, and I had an idea for how to implement it

#

The gist of it is that the jungle lab would have some sort of quarantine force field or just a shell around it, and in order to get some treasure from it, you'd need to break through, resulting in the plague being released

#

There should be some sort of quarantine warning message about this, maybe by whoever sabotaged the lab, saying that breaching the containment would have severe consequences unless someone (you) finds a way to neutralize the plague

lucid marsh
#

Should I make a suggestion about this?

drowsy plank
#

that's awfully specific

#

i dont think plague expansion hasnt happened yet because of lack of ideas on how to do it is all im gonna say personally HDfailure

dreamy trellis
#

Plague is just kinda smelly

crude geode
#

Plague is one of the coolest themes ruined by being in one of the busiest spots in progression (late hm)

floral yoke
#

Still unsure how the plague mini-biome will be pulled off, will it just convert tiles into a more sickly looking green?

dreamy trellis
#

Like, take the Astral stuff, thats cool as shit. You got some aliens and stuff and thats neat

#

Plague is really just… turn things kinda green and evil-er

#

Like, maybe theres somethin’ Im missing but I feel like it would’ve been much cooler if it wasn’t just a bunch of nanites or if it just started mutatin’ stuff wildly

#

Idk, I feel like it doesn’t take a theme and go with it like the Astral biome or even Brimstone crags

floral yoke
#

Tbf plague mostly is just… Plague

#

They are going to be turned into something more “war-like” in the future though

dreamy trellis
#

What does war-like mean

#

Is this the trenches

sleek turret
#

Is it the inevitable capitalist machinery that is used to make the ultrarich ultrarichier?

buoyant idol
#

Ultramoney 🤑

distant folio
#

ultrasales coin

sleek turret
#

Ultragreediness (average irl billionaire CEO)

buoyant idol
#

We need the Ultrasuggestion.

sleek turret
#

Add an actual plant themed functionality to Feller of Evergreens

drowsy plank
#

feller has plans

sleek turret
#

Honestly I had an idea for it like when chopping down trees you get extra fruit for food items that are crafted like a lot of the drinks

#

And then Axe of Purity was the combination of Axe of Regrowth and Feller at early-hm and Inferna Cutter line became separate thing

novel belfry
#

i said this a while ago, but i think Plague should instead be an event

#

like have an event similar to Acid Rain where you go into the jungle and exterminate the plagued organisms

#

perhaps like the final tier of Acid Rain, the end of the Plague would have the PBG spawn

drowsy plank
#

i think the "boss spawns at the end of an event" is cool for flavor and awful for gameplay

sleek turret
#

A new idea surged today in my mind regarding Plague

#

What if PBG was in a in-building process inside the Jungle Lab (in this case it would be a huge structure connected to giant beehive) where the more in-game time you spend the more built it is and when it's 100% built you can release it at any moment

novel belfry
#

i think i saw this in the discussion where i first proposed the Plague event

floral yoke
#

Seems complex

sleek turret
#

And if you wanted to speed up the progress you could spend some lab materials or some other materials

#

Or atleast when you kill Golem PBG breaches containment instead of being very non-linear

sleek turret
#

Obviously the game should tell you about this in-game because stuff being heavily wiki-reliant sucks a lot to be sincere

novel belfry
floral yoke
#

I do think bosses could have cooler spawn-ins, just something simple though

#

I.E. DoG coming out of a portal or Ravager assembling instead of just appearing

#

Remember that some of these ideas take a lot of coding time

novel belfry
#

same

sleek turret
#

Plague Remote would still exist to call PBG at any time because firstly the boss would just escape from the lab and infect pretty much all of the jungle

floral yoke
#

My only issue with the “building over a playthrough” thing is that one would require PBG to physically be there and could mess with the opportunity to just build wherever in place of having to build around it until it is finished

#

Codebreaker works because it is 100% player driven

sleek turret
#

It could be player driven too as you get more stuff to complete the PBG building process through the game

#

Wires, hardmode ores, some jungle materials, etc

#

The components of a nuke

floral yoke
#

I do think there could be some pre-golem storytelling like wild nanomachines roaming around

dense ravine
#

maybe not rav

#

but DoG will probably have something

floral yoke
#

It would be disappointing if DoG didn’t get something like that

#

Rav I could care less for, just that it’s lame that he falls from the sky, not much you can do for that I suppose

dense ravine
#

oh future content doc is down

#

cringe

floral yoke
#

Yeah I was disappointed about that, wanted to read it today

#

But it’s getting updated so more stuff to read

dense ravine
#

i feel like all post ml bosses should have unique boss spawn animations

#

and rav is getting retiered to post provi

floral yoke
#

Yep

#

Ravager is weird, not much I can say about him other than I trust the Devs have good plans for him

dense ravine
#

i mean, he is a god

floral yoke
#

He is yeah, a mindless husk of one

#

Doesn’t show very well in game too

#

I do think he is finally going to be tied to bloodstone though

#

Anyway, that’s my two sense on the topic

#

I should really suggest that astral ore idea I had again

novel belfry
#

honestly im less annoyed about ravager and more about Aureus

worldly sparrow
#

what is the community more interested in:
guiding new players towards more obscure content
or
auric golf balls

#

the answer is neither, they have basically the same interest lmao

novel belfry
#

you dont need to guide the new players towards the almost certainly obscure auric golf balls

#

because that's what all the youtubers will be talking about

wide river
#

169 per week (golf ball)
VS
174 per 3 weeks or 58 per week (obscurity)

lucid marsh
#

Auric golf clubs would be better

#

Same crazy boost but reusable

proper granite
#

golf balls are reusable, arent they?

glass arch
#

yeah

grave zincBOT
#

@errant wind - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make a crafting recipe for magic conch]

It has officially been implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

#

@muted cradle - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Change the hallowed bars recipe ore requirement along with making the veins slightly larger]

It has officially been implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

distant gyro
#

was done days ago the bot was just not responsive 🤖

errant wind
errant wind
novel belfry
grave zincBOT
#

@solemn sleet - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Hive Pack Upgrade]

It has been reviewed by the devs, and for one reason or another they decided it would be best not to implement it.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

#

@golden sonnet - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Add a Renewable Source of Astral Chests]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

olive saddle
drowsy plank
#

plague hive is never gonna be good again boohoo

olive saddle
#

True

#

Hang on a fucking second

#

Plague hive uses honey comb
doesnt inflict honey upon getting hit
Ah XD

wide river
olive saddle
#

Truly

drowsy plank
#

plague hive is a downgrade bc the bees on hit have bad iframes

#

and that's literally the only advantage it had over alch flask

golden sonnet
#

Yep

#

Glad astral chest is real at least

olive saddle
wide river
north oracle
#

all bees have bad iframes HDfailure

drowsy plank
#

either it should be deleted or made to actually fucking do something

wide river
#

Well your attempts for the latter haven't really worked so
May as well give the former a shot

olive saddle
#

That's not a bad sugg

misty lichen
#

upgrade to an item obtained at the immediate next tier where the accessory would still be very viable alone

drowsy plank
#

it's so funny too bc plague hive HAD the hive pack effect on it still and it still wasnt better than just like. an emblem.

misty lichen
#

offensive accessory drought

drowsy plank
#

they forgot to remove the hive pack effect in the code and the buffs were so marginal that no one noticed. that's how insignificant hive pack buffs are at this point

tardy geyser
#

alchemical flask, plague hive, and toxic heart are already too similar for them all to exist, we dont need another

drowsy plank
#

pbg when it

#

when it has too many drops

wide river
# misty lichen offensive accessory drought

Defensive options: "Here's a bunch of ways to change life regen, defense, damage reduction, and immunity frames, with a lot of other unique ways of keeping yourself safe"
Mobility options: "Here's plenty of accessories to give you more flight, movement, and change up your dashes"
Offensive options: "Here's an emblem with 1 extra effect, you'll use this the whole game"

drowsy plank
#

plague canister crafts and pbg drops and infected plating crafts and

stark locust
#

Hi im thinking about making a sugestion that makes it so the mech boss summons need power cells so that new players will have the factory's going long before the power cell grind of doom that always happens whilst trying to fight draedon. dose this sound like a good idea

wide river
#

As much as that could help, some people still don't know that the Mech summons are moved to a normal anvil

#

And a recipe unfortunately doesn't really say where to get the cells
If they're a new player, they aren't going to know where to find the labs, how to get the factories, or that Draedon Power Cells are even a thing

sleek turret
#

The eternal struggle to add foreshadowing to game mechanics so that new players get to know wtf is certain things

#

Unrelated to Calamity, but Thorium added recently a way to players know about the inspiration mechanic via Guide whenever you pick a bard weapon (most probably either crafted or found in surface chests)

tardy geyser
#

O nice good suggestion Enchilada, i was about to make one like that

#

more along the lines of removing flask and heart and having hive get their effects though

#

plus add hive pack to it maybe

wide river
drowsy plank
#

ench the archivist

wide river
#

Aye

wide river
#

There would be the problem of Plaguebringer armor, though, as it uses 2 Alchemical Flasks to craft

#

I kinda had an idea for the Plague accessories that I wouldn't be able to suggest since specifics and whatnot
Alchemical Flask could get put back to 50% Plague resistance, Toxic Heart would get a rework to not be Inferno Potion: Plague Edition (keeping the 1.5x multiplier to sickness), and Plague Hive could get removed completely

spiral wraith
drowsy plank
#

🥹

#

i cant wait for this to pass and then never have anything done for it

golden sonnet
#

hey, the assets needed channel was used recently

#

so it can be real

royal tapir
#

Oh whoops I thought that said beans XD

wide river
grim tusk
drowsy plank
#

@ YuH if this passes you need to write up the assets-needed post for it XD

errant wind
spiral wraith
#

should suggested a recipe in there as well

drowsy plank
#

what

#

no specifying the details of the recipe would've made it violate the specifics rule

#

the point of this channel is to point out problems and suggest solutions, not to outline how things should be done

spiral wraith
#

ok

errant wind
olive saddle
#

thats a generalization

#

saying it should use ocean materials is not giving its straight recipe

#

its valid to say "it should use ocean materials" vs "it should use coral and some sea shells"

muted cradle
sand marlin
#

I agree with additional stat thing

#

Lucky gives luck so you can boost that

#

Menacing can give like... Idk actually

olive saddle
#

i dont really agree with that. your weapon damage scales throughout the game, defense doesnt really scale the same way (the number of defense you get increases vs weapon damage increasing/the effectiveness of the defense doesnt increase its just the number that goes up). crit is exempt cuz its double damage regardless. my only complaint is menacing falls off the more damage ups you have where as lucky doesnt. while lucky has a cap menacing just kinda feels inferior. lucky scales really well as its double damage regardless and armors will help you get to double damage easier and more consistently.

i'm probably talking out my ass and speaking gibberish but i do have to say lucky having luck and menacing having nothing AND being numerically inferior the more damage (NOT CRIT) ups you have is pretty disappointing.

#

lucky and menacing are also percentages vs a flat number and that flat number only gets more numbers attached to it vs the percentage just being more effective

#

im probably having a fuckin stroke and seeing the same thing as different things

sand marlin
#

They have virtually no difference in terms of simple stats

#

Crit is just calculated after defense and %damage is effective beforehand so with only defense in consideration %damage would be better

#

Byeah I don't really see anything going well in terms of the actual stats scaling

#

Better just use the additional stats

#

And give menacing something similar to luck

small timber
#

I just don't want to suggest that because I do stupid challenges that will need that Defense value

#

the benefit of reforges are dependent on your comparative stats based on progression, and this will explain why despite your waepon scaling with progression (which is the most common reasoning/argument), Menacing should be buffed

tender crater
#

for pure classes it's a different story tho

sand marlin
#

I agree but let's not use hybrid as example because it's a pretty different story

tender crater
#

not that it matters much, warding is still significantly better than the two

tender crater
#

defense as a stat might need to be suspect tested at some point, since it's the only stat in the game with increasing marginal returns

#

the more defense you stack, the better it gets, and it risks reaching problematic level if you push it too far

small timber
#

eg (I just based the stat on my tester gear character on ranger, so it will not be 100% accurate)
*% damage here is the total of damage + crit (no reforge)

Late pre-HM
44 defense 45% damage

Late HM
~80defense 120% damage

Post-DOG
~170 defense ~150% damage

now factor in what 5/6/7 Warding and Menacing contribute in defense/damage

Late pre-HM (Warding) = 20/44 = 45% of defense
Late HM (Warding) = 36/80 = 45% of defense
Post-DOG (Warding) = 70/170 = 41% of defense

Late pre-HM (Menacing) = 20/45 = 44% of damage
Late HM (Menacing) = 24/120 = 20% of damage (this is abit scuffed since ranger have super good accessory straight from post-Golem)
Post-DOG (Menacing) = 28/150 = 18.67% of damage

#

I think you can see the difference here, and this is considering I did not use alcohols etc, which tend to buff damage more drastically then them buffing defense value directly

sand marlin
small timber
#

the reason people use Menacing over Warding is not because it is better than Warding, but rather people just decided to gear towards glass cannon (aka survival have 0 meaning) which they might as well use Menacing for damage since their point is not to survive

#

the value Menacing give compare to Warding is terrible in a build

tender crater
#

there's definitely a glass canon bias coming from a good chunk of the playerbase

#

they kinda just assume "oh well enemies in cal hit harder/you can't hug bosses anymore, so that means defense as a stat is now useless" and then get two tapped by lategame bosses

sand marlin
tender crater
#

it's fair to compare the two considering they're mutually exclusive

sand marlin
#

Yes. Warding is very good for survivability
That doesn't make Menacing and Lucky suddenly very low contribution

small timber
#

the comparison is how much a single reforge gives in value to your build

#

not what exactly each stat does

#

for example, if bosses are too squishy when you use a balance build + 7 menacing instead of 3 menacing 4 warding (if menacing is buffed), chances are the bosses itself is too squishy

sand marlin
#

For a fight that doesn't require you to go as defensive, if you go warding and try to be more aggressive you would be wasting efficiency by not building more %damage or %critchance when you already have the defense you need

#

Warding won't give you further value if you're not already dying to the boss

small timber
#

that is very very glass cannon bias just because skills affect defense more than it affect damage (except for true mele)

sand marlin
#

I said

#

"For a fight that doesn't require you to go as defensive"
"When you already have the defense you need"

#

This is not glass cannon bias

#

This is simply good distribution

#

If you are actually killing the boss without dying, there really is no value in getting more defensive

#

That is the simplest logical thing you can do

small timber
#

that will be so adaptive to the point of no solid estimation can be made

sand marlin
#

That is exactly what I said yes

small timber
#

at what point will you be able to stop going defense? 4 Warding? 0 Warding? 7 Warding

sand marlin
#

This is not a fair comparison

#

You don't simply compare them like that because they are adaptive stats

small timber
#

which is why I just disregard how much do you need the stat entirely

sand marlin
#

So the problem is that warding is too buffed

small timber
#

the above is based purely on how much stat you have at that point at the game (on a balanced build character)

sand marlin
#

Which you can then ask for a warding nerf

tender crater
#

honestly that's a fair statement

sand marlin
#

You no longer need warding as much with the current variety of tank accessories

tender crater
#

menacing and lucky aren't weak on their own, specially compared to quick and arcane (lol), it's just warding being cracked

small timber
#

there is a huge difference in damage and defense:
damage is cater towards experienced player; defense is cater towards newer player

if you nerf defense too much it don't punish experienced player, it punish newer player much more

#

which is why I am very against nerfing defense (at least by too much), because it just makes people who are struggling struggle even more

sand marlin
#

The experienced player does not need more damage

tender crater
#

i'm surprised it was never considered to nerf warding during preHM considering that 20/24 def from reforges alone is extremely impactful early into a run

#

specially considering how low base damage weapons make menacing less effective too

small timber
#

the experienced player do not need more damage (adrenaline alone is overkill), but damage affects newer player too

sand marlin
#

The newer player will still want to go defensive as with more damage they still wouldn't be able to get better at the game or learn anything if they do not avoid hits well so not really all that big of a deal

small timber
#

you can tell an experienced player to nohit a boss (max damage 0 defense, still survive)
but chances are if you tell a newer player to use a glass cannon gear they will just die
heck they probably die even on a more balanced setup

sand marlin
#

So what's the value in buffing damage for newer players if you are describing exactly the situation

tender crater
#

i don't think there's a need to keep warding on a strong state for the sake of newer players considering that defensive accessories are extremely strong on their own

#

the absorber alone is more value than a good chunk of offensive accessories combined

#

hell, it's an offensive accessory itself if we take the DR reducing debuff into account

sand marlin
#

It gives damage on aura as well

#

I consider Absorber more of a stat stick

#

Frankly

tender crater
#

that's fair, ig the sponge would be a better example then

small timber
#

I don't fully understand what you mean, but basically tldr imo:

for experienced player, having more damage is not the issue (adrenaline alone which is an experienced player exclusive mechanic is the issue)

for newer player, they need all the defense and damage they can get

that is because not every new player will go full warding tank build or full damage glass cannon build, they can mix and match (while experienced player have the leniency of basically sacrifice all defense for damage already) + expecting adrenaline from them is unreasonable

in this, lets assume 50/50 they use either full menacing or full warding; in this case the suggestion is about that in a scenario like this when a player is choosing between Warding and Menacing, Menacing just give much lesser value compare to Warding

sand marlin
small timber
#

wait what did I typed above

sand marlin
#

As for mixing the two, if the newer player starts experimenting that means they're getting better so they eventually tilt towards more damage as they get better at the game

#

If they mix and match and still fail then they would still go defense

#

Fuck my food's getting cold I'm just gonna dip out unfortunately XD

small timber
#

ok this is abit confusing, I am not sure if I typed something that might be wrong when I didn't pay full attention, but tldr again:

the goal: To beat the boss (3 possible build: full damage, mixed/balanced, full defense)

Experienced Player

  • they will beat the bosses with all 3 of the builds, it literallly doesn't matter in any capacity; regardless of if Menacing is buffed or Warding is nerfed, their build just affect their killtime
  • have access to Adrenaline, which I will instantly argue affect damage much more than Menacing buff
  • Menacing having less value than Warding do not matter for them, because they will be winning anyway

Newer Player

  • no access to Adrenaline in any capacity
  • full damage = likely struggles (if you buff damage = more likely to success because they can use damage to compensate lack of defense)
  • mixed/balanced = 50/50 struggle or success (.... more likely to success)
  • full defense = higher chance of success

The suggestion pointed issue is this: in all 3 of the above, if you choose Menacing over Warding you just end up having a reforge that gives you much less value statistically, which is why Menacing should scale a little to be slightly more in line

#

this is also why personally I think experienced player should just play master (even if many considered it not balanced) if they think expert is too easy, because otherwise it always comes at a compensation for newer player struggling more

and damage-wise adrenaline is much more aggregious than Menacing buff

tender crater
#

i play master/death all the time and i still agree with the idea of a warding nerf, specially considering how generous cal is with letting you toggle the difficulty around if you hit a brick wall

#

but i do agree adrenaline is way more problematic than any minor menacing buff out there

lucid marsh
#

Instead of buffing menacing

#

Although, maybe you could add 1% armor penetration to menacing, like how warding has DR

small timber
#

they can do both but tldr basically yes

#

(though they have to adjust bosses HP abit before that)

#

AP is weird in that it either is useless or completely overpowered, too volatile

lucid marsh
#

Hmm

small timber
#

not sure if Ozz still going with the same idea, but there was an idea for accessory reforge rework before

#

it is something like, eg: there are 4 melee speed reforge
Wild, Rash, Intrepid, Violent (1,2,3,4%)

Tldr of the rework was that instead of them giving 1,2,3,4 (basically Violent is just better), it will be like Wild giving 2% melee speed 2% movement speed; Rash giving 3% melee speed 1% damge, Intreprid giving 3% melee speed 1 defense

or something, basically all reforges are equivalent but give different set of stats

which I think can work well for example having reforges that give 5% damage but -2% defense or something
which can give reforges more build catering power, but yeah

sand marlin
# small timber ok this is abit confusing, I am not sure if I typed something that might be wron...

Okay, I've given this some time and considered the things you've said
Honestly, all fine. These are all reasonable points.
The conclusion I've come to at the end is that the newer player still shouldn't have more damage however. Especially nowadays we're moving towards longer boss fights it's always better if the fight lasts longer so that the player learns more of it instead of dying pretty quickly which with a defensive build they can ensure their safety to learn as many things as possible in one run. If the player IS actually lacking damage greatly then it's not a Menacing/Lucky issue. It's definitely a weapon issue and there are a lot of unbalanced weapons out there that still need improving, this means you cannot use a lack of damage as necessiation for Menacing/Lucky buffs

small timber
#

my opinion is abit weird

#

this is imo: if the fact that bosses are dying too fast because of the buff/player dealing too much damage, the bosses should be buffed in HP instead of making it so we never buff player damage (except Adrenaline, which I think should not be balanced around and instead is to nerf adrenaline)

my particular issue is with Menacing (damage) not giving as much value as Warding (Defense) when trying to reforge for them

imo they should give relatively similar (in value)
this is because it reduce the chances of "bait option" that new player will not be aware of unless they get the statistic, and make different type of build (value-wise) more viable

#

the main reason my argument is not to nerf Warding is just purely it makes the new player struggles more, otherwise nerfing Warding works too yes

sand marlin
#

Well see that's the thing

#

It only looks that way because warding is too good

#

And warding is catered towards newer players

#

Menacing obviously won't be as good as warding

#

Nor will lucky be that

#

And either way, +20% pre boss is not a small amount, nor is +24% in hardmode and +28% in post ML

small timber
#

which is why the suggestion is not asking a full on scaling like warding, but just a small buff by making it scale (slightly)

#

like the upper limit I think menacing/lucky should ever be is 6%, likely less

sand marlin
#

Yeah but you don't need more damage as none of the player base

small timber
#

if it scale fully like warding it will be like, 10%

sand marlin
#

Also, in case anybody says +28% damage in post ML is bad because of post 100% scaling
Yes. +28% damage after 100% IS bad, but then you can use Lucky or Violent(projectile broadsword melee) to balance it out and that's the more efficient way to use multipliers either way. Because if you balance multipliers they give a greater boost. This way you will never waste value from menacing/lucky/violent

small timber
#

I feel like the argument is getting further apart from the suggestion, so I will try to get it back to the point
these are the main points from my end:

  1. post 100% damage menacing vs lucky benefit is very much miniscule, and there are many factors that makes menacing 99% of the time always better than lucky (namely summoner), unless your damage vs crit amount is extremely far apart (eg: rogue due to stealth)

on the other hand, other similar reforges like violent can give a higher damage boost but just like lucky, is more situational; menacing is the universal "good" choice

  1. my main point is to not (having to) nerf warding because that is the option that is needed for new player (much more than experienced player), and basically weaken the "fallback" option a new player can choose; nerfing warding do not come at a cost for experienced player, only at the new player

  2. menacing and warding should, at least in value, be not super far apart, which currently is not the case (menacing simply is much less value compare to warding), which makes it so statistically, if a new player chose damage over defense (because many are told defense is "useless"), they just struggle purely because of a "bait option" because the amount boosted from menacing is just not as much as the amount of defense boosted from warding increasing their survivability proportionally

  3. the entire point of the suggestion is to make said gap less far apart; if bosses will be dying too fast because of this small buff, chances are bosses are already dying too fast and will have nothing to do with the buff

short stream
#

I like the idea of minor scaling for menacing and lucky if the maximum boost per accessory is like 6%

sand marlin
#

I don't see how the argument was getting further apart from the suggestion. If you don't need more damage from accessory prefixes there is no need for them to scale, as simple as that. They don't need to be as good as warding because they do their job and so does warding

short stream
#

But warding is far stronger than menacing and lucky

small timber
#

the point here is not whether there is a need for accessory prefixed to do more

the point here is that if a new player choose menacing over warding it is just a shittier choice that they will not be aware of, and making their game harder

sand marlin
short stream
#

But it’s not balanced

sand marlin
sand marlin
# short stream But it’s not balanced

No, it's balanced by the fact that newer players can always rely on warding to ensure their safety and as time goes on if they spec a bit into damage they DO get a good amount

small timber
#

the point is this:

lets say if defense lets you survive 10% more, choosing damage over defense (should) make it so you kill the bosses 10% faster

at the end both leads to winning you the fight

currently this is more like survive 10% more vs killing the boss 5% faster

short stream
#

More damage means faster fight which also means less opportunities to take damage in the first place

small timber
#

the suggestion is purely based on the choice between warding and menacing, nothing else (aka: we assume it is the same build, except they use a different reforge, thats it)

sand marlin
#

Let's say we did buff them

#

Now you flip the entire game's balance upside down with the changes mattering over time significantly because they did not need a damage and now everything has to move forward to match the scaled menacing/lucky/violent
How is this considered balanced?

short stream
#

It’s minor scaling

sand marlin
#

+4% -> +5% for menacing is a +20% pre boss versus +35% endgame instead of +28%

small timber
#

which is exactly why the suggestion did not ask for a significant buff

sand marlin
#

Because more accessory slots scale it further

short stream
#

And that’s fine

sand marlin
#

Even just a +1% buff is big in the end

#

And you DON'T need it

#

Never needed it, will never need it

small timber
#

you dont need it

short stream
small timber
#

the new player will

sand marlin
#

No,

#

The newer player won't need it

#

They have enough damage

short stream
#

You sure?

small timber
#

why will they not need it when they are struggling to beat the boss at all?

sand marlin
#

Whatever this is just a yes and no argument now

short stream
#

Faster fight means less damage taken meaning higher chances of winning

sand marlin
#

Even though the stats are right there clearly

small timber
#

the point of the suggestion is to increase the skill floor so that the new player struggle less based on a choice they did not know that have such a drastic difference in value

short stream
#

Exactly

small timber
#

if the experienced/good player kill the bosses 5 seconds faster, chances are they will kill the boss even if it takes 5 second longer

sand marlin
#

That literally doesn't match

odd cradle
#

So, decrease the number of hits they take by making the fight faster

small timber
#

in the case of damage, it is to increase their damage to compensate for the lack of defense by shortening the fight, therefore taking less hit

odd cradle
#

Much like how Warding increases the number of hits you can take

short stream
#

How about bosses like DoG where three hits is almost a guaranteed death?

sand marlin
#

Your point is not making sense

short stream
#

Even with warding?

odd cradle
#

Do you think every boss oneshots the player??? I don't understand what point you're trying to make

sand marlin
#

Do not add more people into this argument I can't deal with trying to convince 3 people that are assuring each other constantly

odd cradle
#

Dude if there's three people joining in on the other side it may be because you're wrong XD

short stream
#

lol

small timber
#

tldr:
warding makes it so you can take more hits before dying, therefore beating the boss
menacing makes it so you can kill the boss faster before dying, therefore beating the boss

the suggestion is targeting the fact that menacing is doing a shitter job at making you kill the boss faster compare to how much warding increase your ability to take more hits

sand marlin
odd cradle
#

I'm not trying to I'm just merely making an observation

small timber
#

I KNOW the top end player do not need more damage, adrenaline alone solves that, heck with Adrenaline you kill scal on mnl with a scuffed setup on master death ftw because I tried exactly that

sand marlin
#

So stop talking if you're just gonna make it messier

short stream
sand marlin
short stream
#

Or at least continuing

odd cradle
#

Look, ultimately I have no issue with the suggestion and we're eating each other alive over something that we ultimately have no final say in

short stream
#

Agreed

fervent orbit
#

arguements arent neccessarily negative

odd cradle
#

This discussion isn't over if the suggestion has some core formatting or style issue, it's arguing over whether it's balanced or not, which is not our choice to make

#

It's the devs and the larger community, if the suggestion even reaches the former in the first place

sand marlin
#

Listen, I tried to make reason by approaching several points and bringing up stats, but at this point it isn't anything other than a "yes" and "no" argument and you guys are adding fuel to fire

odd cradle
#

As fun as this discussion is, it's literally pointless

small timber
#

the tldr is there are 2 options here basically:

either nerf warding, or menacing is buffed (in some way, even if not by increasing the damage%)

they can nerf warding instead sure, but I think it probably affects new player much more

small timber
sand marlin
odd cradle
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But why

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What is the point anyway

short stream
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True

odd cradle
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What is your end goal in doing so

sand marlin
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To convince him otherwise?

odd cradle
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And do what?

sand marlin
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What do you think an argument is?

odd cradle
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Take down the suggestion?

short stream
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You don’t have to win an argument

sand marlin
short stream
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Everyone wins if they come to an agreement

odd cradle
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It's the devs

sand marlin
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No

short stream
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And most of us agree that this suggestion is a good idea

sand marlin
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It's the suggester that is suggesting the idea