#suggestions-discussion

1 messages · Page 239 of 1

sleek turret
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insta-tp rocket

novel belfry
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its not meant to fire flames, but hey

spark ravine
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I mean, the tooltip describes it as a plasma blast

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What's the ionization point of gel?

novel belfry
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from what i've heard gel in terraria is just really easy to heat up, hence why its used in torches

spark ravine
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the gel lore is real

sleek turret
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it's probably something alcohol definitively

unborn plaza
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What is your favorite fanmade music of boss rush? tier 4: A)Trial of conquerors B)judgement of dragons

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What is your favorite fanmade music of boss rush? tier 5: A)Descent of divinities B)Arena of gods C)Omniscience of gods

sleek turret
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Probably way more than 300 °C

drowsy plank
lavish condor
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Allow the player to configure the vanilla world difficulty
When creating a world, the player is prompted to select from Classic, Expert, and Master difficulties. Classic difficulty locks Calamity's difficulties, and Master difficulty makes the game way way harder than intended and is not balanced, making Expert the intended experience.
However, upon creating the world, there is no way to change the world difficulty without using other mods or a world editor. If you made a Classic world and wanted to play Revengeance mode, you have to get another mod or make a new world, which is unideal. Additionally, there is no in-game indication that Expert is the intended experience until it is already too late to change the difficulty.
I propose allowing the player to change the world difficulty in-game, perhaps from the already-in-place difficulty selector. Alternatively, indicating that Expert is the intended difficulty in the world creation screen similar to how small worlds are discouraged would also work.

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thoughts?

grim tusk
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Uncertain

royal tapir
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Fargo's Mutant has an item that does this, called the World Token

grim tusk
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They are asking us to put a way to do that without other mods

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Im not sure about it

lavish condor
sleek turret
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When hovering your cursor over the expert difficulty tab a text appears

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It doesn't tell anything other than some text

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You could put some indication that you can play Revengeance+ in that text

lavish condor
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Calamity actually makes the text for the small world tab something along the lines of "SMALL WORLDS NOT SUPPORTED" so they could do something like that

sleek turret
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Yeah

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small worlds not supported text could be put below the original text honestly but idk if that's possible

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so quite essentially just tell the player when hovering over the options what difficulties you can toggle with that difficulty in particular

lavish condor
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What if I suggest to add an indication that Expert is intended rather than adding a difficulty changer

sleek turret
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the intented difficulty is expert revengeance but it's mostly revengeance

drowsy plank
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both could be fine

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you could send both suggs and see how they peform individually

sleek turret
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that's why it appears "The intended way to play Calamity" or smth on the in-game difficulty selection

lavish condor
drowsy plank
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yeah 2 a day

lavish condor
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They'd both have near identical reasoning. That ok?

royal tapir
sleek turret
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using a mod to solve another mod's problems is fucked

royal tapir
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I disagree in this scenario

sleek turret
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Ok but does the game tell you that in order to activate rev you need to select expert first

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There isn't any indication that you need to play expert or master in order to play revengeance

novel belfry
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i think if Expert is the intended way to play the Calamity difficulties, (and as Kaizo says its necessary to play revegeance and above)

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there ought to be a way to be able to access those difficulties

royal tapir
lavish condor
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we've identified and agreed there's a problem, but CIT is arguing that there's already a solution in the form of another mod. I can see their point, but I am of the opinion that Calamity should address it in some way.

sleek turret
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That's in-game

royal tapir
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What's the difference

sleek turret
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What I'm talking here is on the difficulty menu screen

royal tapir
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Still tells you that you need Expert

sleek turret
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You know, when you create a world

lavish condor
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There is an indication but it's after you've gone past the point of no return on the world difficulty. Once you receive the indication, creating a new world or using other mods is the only way to change it to expert

glass arch
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if you want to turn on rev as soon as you start the pt and have just genned a world on classic
its not that hard to gen a new one on expert

novel belfry
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i think its better if the player gets to understand this before even generating a world

glass arch
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genning a world is not a hard task

novel belfry
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just for quality of life sake

fervent orbit
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imo the problem isnt with the classic thing, thats something a player would find about quickly

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the real problem is with master, and how its bloated stats when combined with revengeance/death arent apparent immediately

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this leads to newer players creating worlds on master, seeing it to be fine for a long while up till after midway in hardmode, where the bloated stats are more apparent with even harder bosses

golden sonnet
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Agreed ^'

royal tapir
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And well, that's vanilla's problem

fervent orbit
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no

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no its not

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its a problem with revengeance

royal tapir
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How so

glass arch
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no, its a vanilla issue

royal tapir
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Expert vs. Master

glass arch
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its the exact same issues as in vanilla its just more pronounced in cal because rev does have stat changes on its own

fervent orbit
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i dont see how this is vanillas issue

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its not like vanilla only has stat bloat in master

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it also has an extra slot and relics, both of these are negated in cal but you are ONLY told this until after you activate revenageance

golden sonnet
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^

fervent orbit
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and with the extra slot, that is done POST ML

glass arch
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what

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i dont get your point

fervent orbit
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my point is that these problems with combining master + revengeance are only done so after playing the game after a significant amount of time

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where no one would be willing to create a new world

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and the fix being "oh just download another mod" is bad when its a widespread problem

glass arch
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so.

lavish condor
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Calamity's also no stranger to fixing vanilla issues, especially when they're more pronounced in Calamity

glass arch
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whats the difference exactly
yeah the stat bloat is an issue but you should have known that thats what you're gonna be getting into when you enabled master

fervent orbit
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they thought they got other stuff too

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they arent experienced players, they dont know relics and a 7th slot is alr done by revengeance

lavish condor
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Nothing tells you the Master mode stuff (relics, pets, etc.) is moved to revengeance until after you've made it a fair bit in

fervent orbit
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and they wouldnt know that the stat bloat is LITERALLY THE HIGHEST POSSIBLE

wide river
glass arch
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how.

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master is LITERALLY THE HIGHEST STAT BLOAT IN VANILLA

fervent orbit
glass arch
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they do

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but only for the things that have stat differences in expert rev and expert death

sleek turret
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polterghast btw

glass arch
fervent orbit
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100+ dmg on most attacks

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imagine a new player trying to fight against that

glass arch
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if you are a new player going into a new difficulty mode why are you playing master

fervent orbit
royal tapir
glass arch
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master is not the new person difficulty mode

novel belfry
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just make it ABUNDANTLY clear that master mode is a significant difficulty spike that isn't balanced by Calamity Mod's difficulties, and is not intended for a first time playthrough

sleek turret
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That

lavish condor
royal tapir
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The suggestion is fine, I just personally disagree

sleek turret
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ok but does it really hurt to have an indication that expert is the intended expierence though....

lavish condor
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Even if it's a workable issue it should still be indicated on the world generation screen like what they do with small worlds

fervent orbit
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anyone know why mysterious circutry and dubious plating exist as seperate items

serene vapor
errant wind
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Is my suggestion good

sleek turret
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Yeah

errant wind
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K

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Phew

sleek turret
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fun fact

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the glowing mushroom planetoid has a 33% chance of generating

novel belfry
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it really does not help that vanilla for some reason decided to severely reduce the chances of getting the enchant sword shrine to spawn

errant wind
errant wind
novel belfry
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im super infuriated that change happened at all

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especially because it makes finding the TerraGRIM (previously the Arkhalis) even more infinitely infuriating to get

grim tusk
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Terragrim*

crude geode
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LMAO

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Finding the terraprisma

errant wind
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Plus if you wanna do ark and bb only play trough it becomes near impossible if no enchanted sword in sky since you’ll have to kill ds with wooden sword

errant wind
novel belfry
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ga

grim tusk
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Wait didnt we add a recipe for it?

novel belfry
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i mean yeah

sleek turret
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Post-DS, though

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Meaning that you also have Seashine Sword at your disposal which is better afaik

novel belfry
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no there isnt a terragrim recipe

image.png
sleek turret
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I thought you were talking about Enchanted Sword

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Yeah Terragrim doesn't have a recipe

errant wind
sleek turret
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tbh make it like 1 Enchanted Sword + some other cool material + other cool material

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or just make it transmutable with shimmer

errant wind
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That’s why I said to have one island spawn 100% in the world

novel belfry
errant wind
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What does the 🔒 means on a suggestion

wide river
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🔒 --> The suggestion has been delivered and reviewed by the devs, and is neither approved nor denied. Separate plans that clash have already been made, or a modified version of a suggestion is to be implemented instead.
#suggestions-discussion message

errant wind
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K

serene vapor
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@errant wind Grammar could use improvement but that’s a good suggestion

errant wind
serene vapor
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Your suggestion

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Sorry, not grammar

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Punctuation errors

errant wind
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Oh

wide river
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@next igloo Please don't make joke suggestions

next igloo
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its not a joke

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i want it gone

buoyant idol
next igloo
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alr i just asked uberransy to delete it

buoyant idol
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Why do you want it gone?

north oracle
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@next igloo not only do you need much more reasoning for a suggestion, you can't make any changes to donor items without the donor's permission.
it seems quite unlikely that they'd agree to have the item they paid for removed

next igloo
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it is the worst weapon i have ever played with, it brings me physical pain just seeing it. if i found a geine bottle i would ask for it deleted 3 times

next igloo
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how much is it ill pay twice what he did to delete it

wide river
next igloo
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i will pay uberransy to ask

wide river
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As much as you seem to want this item removed, I am just going to say that it is not going to happen
For one, you haven't really elaborated on why you want it removed (saying it's the worst item you've ever played with doesn't really say why it's bad)
Your suggestion also lacks reasoning and proper formatting

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You would need to actually explain how it is bad
Such as (but not limited to): Difficult to use, poor damage, causes performance issues, etc

bright crag
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You can also just

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Not use the item

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Why is its mere existence such an offense to you? :p

north oracle
wide river
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Indeed

bright crag
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Also

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Are keys still dropped by bosses?

wide river
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Fairly certain yes

north oracle
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yeah

bright crag
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Hmm, alright then

grave zincBOT
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@proper granite - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make biome keys rare again]

It has been decided that your suggestion can neither be passed nor denied; either the devs have already made plans that conflict with it, or they have decided to implement an altered version.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

proper granite
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interesting

wide river
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It'll happen eventually (moving the keys from bosses)
Dunno when, but at some point when other things aren't a priority

bright crag
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Suggested by yours truly in the dev server, a good while ago
It seems it hasn't been implemented yet....

Screenshot_20240217_230106_Discord.jpg
ripe owl
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That latest one is

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Truly

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Undoubtedly

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I'm trying to come up with something that doesn't have "doubt" in it

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The worst take I've heard in my life

misty lichen
golden sonnet
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Yeah, the "swappable through shimmer" doesn't work as that is how you get biome chests

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So it would need something like a graveyard craft as schmoovi said

hollow steeple
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My point

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Honestly the only thing wrong about my suggestion was the DOG lazers, i think everything else I said made PERFECT sense

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The way the storm weaver telegraphs its snow attacks is so terrible that I genuinely thought I was experiencing a visual glitch before I realized that it's just were the projectiles shoot

misty lichen
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the telegraphs are really bad yeah

novel belfry
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did someone just ask to remove an item and wanted it gone so bad

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that they considered paying the fucking donor behind it for permission to remove it???

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im searching my image dump and im desperately trying to get a proper reaction image for this

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its just

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so

atomic shell
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i really yapped for this sugg huh

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might edit for concision later

distant folio
rugged belfry
atomic shell
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that’s so me fr

distant folio
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hell ye

grave zincBOT
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@winter moon - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Delay the Devourer of Gods’ transition into phase two so he leaves the portal on the actual drop of Universal Collapse instead of the 3 note pickup]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

olive saddle
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``Remove the ability for Armored Skeletons to inflict Broken Armor debuff for 4-5 minutes

This is an extremely annoying part of Armored Skeletons that simply should not exist. It's not even for a reasonable amount of time. It's for 4 whole minutes. This wouldn't be bad if it wasn't on a 5% chance. You essentially have a 1/20 chance per hit to get your defense halved for 4 minutes. The suggested change is to simply remove this or change it to be more enjoyable and not as screw-over-ey.``

is this a fine suggestion?

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i could totally understand if its too short or something but there really isnt much to say. extremely small thing. just an enemy inflicting a debuff for way longer than it should on a 1/20/(5%) chance

quiet kettle
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I'd say either lower the chance, or lower the duration

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Because without it, armor polish is basically redundant

olive saddle
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i cant suggest a specific solution, just suggest that its a problem

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if i could id totally say to raise the chance and lower the duration so you get less fucked by random bullshit

dense ravine
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honestly making it like 10 seconds or smth

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maybe 20

olive saddle
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either or would be great

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id take even 40 seconds

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with a 33% chance

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not 4 minutes with a 5% chance

grim tusk
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I wonder if the expert debuff duration reduction broke again

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Cuz I was getting chilled from ice slimes for so long

fervent orbit
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sir this is suggestions discussion

sand marlin
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Also the most recently posted sugg, so the same thing

wide river
fervent orbit
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6 passed suggestions

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damn

fervent orbit
wide river
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It is, as we say, a "spriting issue"

buoyant idol
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#Assets-needed channel moment

proper granite
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Tone down some of the loot found in draedon's labs
Draedon's bio-center labs have 2 chests in each one, usually giving 9 gold, the lab's schematic, a homing beacon to find the next lab, and a lab-specific drop of some kind. I think the amount of gold found in these labs doesn't reflect how difficult the labs are to find, since the first two are always in the same general area each time, and close to spawn. This issue compounds onto itself as once you get the 18 gold from the lab above spawn, you can bomb to the second lab under the desert and get another 18, then use that money to bomb down to both the jungle and underworld labs, which are often vertically close to each other. The amount of money this gives essentially allows you infinite bombs right at the start of the playthrough, which impacts the early game mining experience in a highly negative way.
I tested this on a large world, and by the third day i had hit four of the labs, looted a decent amount of items from chests, and bought a minishark.
Another thing from the labs that negatively impacts exploration is the herb bags from the sky lab, which can be planted immediately and squashes any need to search for herbs.
I think the amount of gold the first two labs give should be reduced, and the sky lab should not give planter boxes.

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chonker suggestion but i had a lot to say

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what do you think?

cold cosmos
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How is this a problem?

proper granite
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it breaks the early game economy by getting you 20-40 gold without much effort

cold cosmos
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Reducing the early game grind doesn’t seem like a problem to me

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Also the economy was already broken to begin with

proper granite
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with herbs out of the picture, this removes a lot of the incentive to explore your world

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and having that many bombs disrupts the gameplay loop of mining by making it so you dont have to use any of the things found while mining (fairies, potions found in chests, early game pickaxes)

wide river
proper granite
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i dont think exploration itself should be seen as a grind to be removed

golden sonnet
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getting to the labs is exploration, the issue is just with the planetoid lab being too easy to get to, not the others

proper granite
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it certainly doesnt feel like it

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since youre just following an arrow

sleek turret
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40 gold that's like 16 coffees from the merchant

proper granite
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im not sure what the average lab setup looks like but in the test i did, the jungle and underworld labs were vertically aligned with each other

sleek turret
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Definitively I agree that gold coin amount should be toned a bit down

misty lichen
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the sell price is just dumb no matter what you think

sleek turret
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ice lab is kinda on the middle of ice biome

golden sonnet
golden sonnet
misty lichen
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sunken sea lab is almost always at the bottom/side edges of the biome for me

proper granite
sleek turret
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it's on the right honestly

golden sonnet
sleek turret
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All of my sunken sea labs spawn on the right side on the edges of the biome

golden sonnet
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again, that is anecdotal, it can be anywhere on the bottom of the biome

sleek turret
proper granite
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i think ive only ever seen the desert holding the sunken sea not being close to spawn once and that was because it was getting pushed behind the jungle

sleek turret
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Absurd

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there's also Apple Pies if you prefer planting trees instead of purchasing

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for context, they now can be crafted for 3 apples on a hellforge

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Honestly Planter Boxes being on main planetoid with many seed bags is ok

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Mainly because in the early game I think you'd like to craft some easy potions like ironskin or swiftness

misty lichen
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there should just be less bags there though

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they went overboard you can get like 20+ of every herb

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you already get the planter boxes you don’t need more seeds

sleek turret
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They're like 20 right?

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Seed bags

misty lichen
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20 in 2 chests

sleek turret
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So 40

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Yeah that's more seeds than planter boxes on average

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Maybe just halving it makes it better

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You can also get Axe of Regrowth or the other tool item that gives you extra seeds early since Cal makes it way more accessible (at the cost of exploring Jungle and finding Vernal Pass that is)

proper granite
sleek turret
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it would be ultra silly if beehive planetoid gave the jungle rose though

proper granite
golden sonnet
proper granite
glass arch
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no you do still have to craft them if you get to planetoid first, which i assume you would considering its right there

golden sonnet
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you need to charge them, and you still don't get a way to get to the sunken sea

proper granite
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why would you need to craft the sunken sea one its always on one of the edges of sunken sea

proper granite
golden sonnet
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if you are exploring the entire border of the sunken sea, that is exploration

glass arch
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yeah

bright crag
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@humble girder I'm fairly sure this has been suggested multiple times in the past (ans accepted)
I think we were lacking sprites...? Not entirely sure why monoliths haven't been added

proper granite
golden sonnet
bright crag
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I see

proper granite
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i only went to areas on the red line

golden sonnet
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again, if you rush towards a specific thing, you will get to that thing quickly

misty lichen
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this map kinda doesn’t prove anything bc you got very lucky worldgen several times

golden sonnet
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^ that as well

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that is literally the highest I have ever seen a jungle lab, I always get them practically near hell

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that hell lab is also really far over

misty lichen
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pyramid just so happens to spawn and let you skip half of the underground desert
jungle lab just so happens to spawn at the max possible height
player just so happens to have magic conch

proper granite
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the pyramid maybe, but keep in mind i had to make an extra hellevator since the jungle lab was far away from the hell lab

misty lichen
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that doesn’t matter you digged like maybe 100 blocks

proper granite
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i dont normally play on large either, and magic conch skipped maybe 2 minutes of running

proper granite
glass arch
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that.

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makes no difference.

misty lichen
proper granite
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he

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okay WORST WORST case scenario you dont go for ANY of the other labs find NO biome shrines or calamity structures and youre playing on large, you still get 18 gold at the start which is enough for a hellevator at the start of the playthrough

sleek turret
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would be silly if i generated 100 worlds and investigated the on average world generation location of the labs

sand marlin
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They used to be rarer

proper granite
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either way it doesnt matter too much because i didnt use any of the gold in the pyramid and still had a lot of gold left in reserve, so i wasnt rich because of that

sand marlin
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He meant you can descend down faster than regular methods

proper granite
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i couldve played medium

sand marlin
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Why would you

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Smaller world means worldgen will be an issue

proper granite
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would more than make up for the pyramid

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no people play medium cal all the time

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large has some glaring drawbacks

sand marlin
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Medium also has like 0 surface

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Almost halved height or something

proper granite
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its not as bad as you think

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i believe my nohit journey world was a medium

sand marlin
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No it's pretty bad if you can fit half of a yharon arena to underground instead of keeping it fully on surface like in large

proper granite
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fought exos without dipping into underground layer

proper granite
sand marlin
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Space isn't the issue

novel belfry
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i always play large

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i like large worlds

sand marlin
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The fact that you have to mine much more into underground is

novel belfry
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in fact i'd want more larger worlds tbh

sand marlin
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More space at surface means more convenience with building anything in surface

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Medium feels so cramped tbh

proper granite
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mention it in world creation?

sand marlin
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I didn't say shouldn't

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It's one of the large pros

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Actually there's nothing to discern whether Medium is a minority or not

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I'll just say people had more worldgen issues on medium than on large so yeah

cold cosmos
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Medium has worldgen issues for breakfast

proper granite
golden sonnet
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sky islands tend to spawn away from the center, exodium planetoids do as well, and it prevents harpies from being there as harpies don't spawn in the center

random talon
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fricking bots man

buoyant idol
glass arch
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no they do

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they just spawn more often outside

golden sonnet
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they cannot spawn in the center 10th

sleek turret
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awesome terraria dev decision since those harpies are fucking obnoxious when exploring

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also good recent sugg

glass arch
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i would know because thats where my house is

golden sonnet
golden sonnet
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because that removes the lock

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they cannot spawn there pre hardmode

glass arch
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raesh im talking about thorlamity and it was also happening pre hardmode just a lot less

golden sonnet
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That's a vanilla mechanic calamity doesn't change

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unless you leave the center 10th they just cannot

random talon
royal tapir
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Could've sworn we did do this

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Perhaps it's bugged

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Although the Abyss doesn't get destroyed, I checked and Fargo's Mutant itself checks for Abyss tiles

royal tapir
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Okay yeah we did try to fix this in 2.0.3.5

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@random talon You should prolly put this in bug reports

random talon
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oh ok

sand marlin
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Last I used instabridge didn't break abyss so could be a bug yeah

royal tapir
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It doesn’t break Abyss, but everything else gets broken

humble girder
ashen warren
grave zincBOT
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@atomic shell - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Remove/work around the center island of Vernal Pass]

It has been decided that your suggestion can neither be passed nor denied; either the devs have already made plans that conflict with it, or they have decided to implement an altered version.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

bright crag
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Vernal Pass will get a rework in the future, there's a lot that can be improved in its structure

grave zincBOT
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@humble girder - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[add more monoliths]

It has been add to the devs' to-do list and planned for implementation!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

olive saddle
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probably needs art tbh

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oh yea

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vet already said XD

chilly narwhal
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Old message, but what did I do?

olive saddle
chilly narwhal
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Oh

olive saddle
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it deals a fixed 8 damage when on the ground and when running into enemies

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why? who knows!

chilly narwhal
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... That makes me want to legally change my name because of how Idiotic it is.

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I'm ashamed to share names with it

sleek turret
frail fox
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Would asking for a specific material to be added to a crafting recipe in order to retier something be too specific or is it fine?

fervent orbit
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if the material is like

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fuck

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cant speak

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if the material related to the item then sure

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but the main point you should be trying to make should be why a retier is needed

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with the material being like "hey look theres already a material that fits with the item that also fits in said tier"

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i have no idea if this made sense

frail fox
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Well yeah I have multiple reasons for the retier besides just “it should be moved here”

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It’s not like “add ruinous souls to handheld tank because I wanna use a tank against dog”

fervent orbit
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"uhmm aktschsuallieyeaie handheld tank is a donor item so you cant suggest that without donors permission first 🤓"

chilly narwhal
#

I just want them to remove cosmilite bars from the fangasm. It already has nightmare fuel. It should be good to go. Locked after DoG. It's not even remotely connected to cosmilite as a theme, yet still it has cosmilite in the recipe.

spark ravine
#

Recitation, endo hydra, corvid harbinger, alluvion, hypothermia, event horizon and SDFMG also could solely use nfuel/endo energy/dfragments too tbh

stable kiln
misty lichen
#

the only exceptions are weapons dropped by dog himself

spark ravine
#

(And scorched earth, but you know, donor)

errant wind
#

My suggestion was 20+ votes yesterday

#

Why is it at 4 today

wide river
#

Sometimes votes get reset for no apparent reason

#

As far as I know it's just a Discord issue, it'll revert back to how it was in a few

errant wind
errant wind
umbral gazelle
#

curse of suggestion bot anamember

grave zincBOT
#

@spark ravine - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Update the Yateveo Bloom's flail attack]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

#

@proven needle - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Allow Calamity foods and Drunk Princess Potions to be placed on Plates]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

#

@serene vapor - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Remove the ability to lose Amidias’s Blessing from sulphuric poisoning]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

dense ravine
#

im ple ment

crude geode
#

Imp lemon

olive saddle
#

incredibly simple sugg, may be a bug but i doubt it

#

i had to think of reasons for it to be up there other than "consistency" and "it should"

vagrant spindle
#

i mean there really is no reason for it to not be there

#

even flesh totem has it pretty sure

olive saddle
#

who uses flesh totem anymore XD

#

bee is kinda like the sponge where if you dont get hit often its good but in a different sense

#

it makes me sad that no one uses it either, fun item

umbral gazelle
drowsy plank
#

the calamity mode is real!!!1!1!!!

proven needle
sleek turret
#

Better than nothing I guess

#

Calamity Mode and True Calamity Mode

drowsy plank
#

one millionth celestial onion suggestion

#

im not even sure if this should be flagged but the number of times mods have gone on record saying they aren't going to do anything with it in master mode makes me think it probably should be but also

#

idk

north oracle
#

@remote mauve please check the pinned suggestions guidelines doc before making suggestions, this is one of the explicit don'ts

image.png
wide river
#

I can see reason in making it sell for coins (since Demon Heart does too), but that would be better in all difficulties and not just Master-exclusive

drowsy plank
#

fab added a bunch of AI changes in master so

north oracle
#

or is this something different HDfailure

drowsy plank
#

well he's just asking for it to have a purpose

wide river
#

They aren't asking for it to add a slot afaik

drowsy plank
#

i suppose the rules have changed and yeah it's not a slot sugg so

wide river
#

Just for it to do something

north oracle
#

i don't see there being a point in having a purpose tbh
it is an item that gives a slot, and it doesn't in master

drowsy plank
#

i would be less lenient before we saw the recent changelogs but fab IS messing with master mode so

north oracle
#

simple as that

drowsy plank
#

okay no actually i

#

am going to let this through

#

this can be our one shot under the new system

#

if the devs reject it again then we can add celestial onion back to frequently suggested

wide river
#

Giving it a sell price could work
The shimmer upgrade and healing item ideas are a bit ech imo, but it's passable at the least

north oracle
#

eh
ig so, i just don't feel like it should have a purpose. you already have another acc slot, the item is useless from being in master

drowsy plank
#

like i said it isn't even asking for another slot just that it could at the least be sold which i admit is a bit weird that it doesnt

north oracle
#

no hard in letting it go through ig

drowsy plank
#

yeah i mean i dont disagree but like i said fab has been messing with master AI so

golden sonnet
#

I don't see an issue with the suggestion as it doesn't relate to slots and is consistent with demon heart being sellable

drowsy plank
#

clearly we aren't just writing it off anymore

#

yeah

north oracle
#

it would feel better if it was rewritten to just be about giving it a sell price and making it consistent, especially as giving it a whole other purpose feels quite eh

drowsy plank
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

#

i think cal shimmerable consumables would be cool tbqh.,.,. even thorium has one.,.,. but that is just my personal bias

north oracle
#

that's fair
i don't think celestial onion is the one to shimmer tho HDfailure

misty lichen
#

cal doesnt really have any stats that would work as a permanent shimmer consumable

odd cradle
#

Honestly my only suggestion for Celestial Onion is to just add loadout support to it

#

But that's probably something coming up down the pipeline

drowsy plank
#

tbf it doesnt need to explictly be a calamity stat

#

thorium's increases movement speed i think

serene vapor
drowsy plank
misty lichen
#

calamity has some minor mana and hp buffs you can’t really do much with that

drowsy plank
#

i mean yeah but that doesnt make my point any less true, you said it needed to be a calamity stat, but like
idk maybe u could shimmer the life upgrades to get something idfk. life fruit shimmer gives u 5 defense like

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

golden sonnet
#

Nothing gives DR, make it give DR

north oracle
#

could increase base crit chance a small amount too

golden sonnet
#

a whopping 1%

drowsy plank
#

about as useful as all the rest lmao

wide river
#

Shimmer upgrades are funny
Marginal upgrades that the playerbase still clamors for

sleek turret
#

They're nice

#

Calamity Shimmer consumable that increases stealth gen by 2%

sleek turret
#

1.02x multiplier for electricity, water, fire, etc

serene vapor
#

How come there isn’t a buff station for rogue?

sleek turret
#

It would be nice honestly

serene vapor
#

Or just make sharpening station work with rogue weapons

golden sonnet
#

there are plans to make one eventually

serene vapor
#

cool

sand marlin
sleek turret
#

2 extra flat damage on enemies

#

xd

#

Actually 2.5 but Terraria rounds it down I think

sand marlin
#

5 ap on every single rogue projectile vomit all across the game

sleek turret
#

isn't that all classes though

#

when having any ap point

sand marlin
#

What

sleek turret
#

That's like if we added 1% crit consumable to another class and went "1 extra crit chance on every single class projectile vomit all across the game"

sand marlin
#

I don't really see the point of this

sleek turret
#

Neither I do regarding the AP part

fervent orbit
#

rogue is the projectile vomit™️ class

sand marlin
#

^

#

Rogue has the most additional projectiles

sleek turret
#

I see

sand marlin
#

Which all scale down to lower damage because they are obviously not going to be better than your weapon but then you realize having ap suddenly makes them stronger than your weapon

sleek turret
#

So basically 2 flat damage breaks the additional projectile damage

remote mauve
sand marlin
sleek turret
#

Fucked up honestly

median scaffold
serene tendon
#

And justify them being items in the first place

median scaffold
serene tendon
wide river
#

Rage and Adrenaline upgrades drop until the player uses them iirc

#

So currently, you kill the boss, then use the item
Mewk's proposed solution is that you'd get the upgrades, but then have to Shimmer then first before they can be used

#

I think personally the Rage/Adrenaline upgrades are somewhat dull in their current state, as every player who's aware that they exist uses them immediately upon killing the boss
At least with the health and mana upgrades you have to put in some effort to obtain them, with Rage/Adrenaline they may as well be automatically granted to the player upon the kill

crude geode
#

it doesn’t help that iirc adrenaline is in a really wack state of existence

median scaffold
#

Yeah, rage/adrenaline upgrades would be nice to have, but it's just too much effort for a pretty "silly" idea
You could make them craftable after those certain bosses, but it makes... kinda no sense now?

sleek turret
#

How would the rage consumable from Crabulon be crafted when there isn't an exclusive material that is dropped from the boss

drowsy plank
#

calamity cerlean morsel real..,.,.,.,.

sleek turret
#

Dragonfolly too, since I don't think it drops any exclusive material

crude geode
#

Does it not drop feathers anymore

#

Oh right Draconic Swarmers

median scaffold
#

And that's also why I stated that the craftable r/a buffs aren't making any sense atm

crude geode
#

I wouldn’t mind if r/a were less tied to bosses

#

And more to progression like the health/mana upgrades

median scaffold
# crude geode I wouldn’t mind if r/a were less tied to bosses

I think for rage the progression would be: post-evil boss 1 (with tissues or the alt), post-golem (life alloy) and post-ml/providence (so there won't be, like, 2 bosses between the upgrades, but either the draconic feathers or the geode from Prov)
And for the adrenaline it would look something the same (all three drop something unique iirc)

wide river
#

One could be from an Acid Rain tier maybe?

#

Not sure how that'd work... but it's an idea

sleek turret
#

player drinks rage acid

#

(Mountain Dew)

median scaffold
sleek turret
#

Monster Mango Unleashed

small timber
#

I had the perfect idea to buff master mode celestial onion

drowsy plank
#

honestly

#

that WOULD be REALLY funny

#

plus they DO want to remove inconsistencies between difficulties clueless

crude geode
#

“Buh master mode is balanced around”
It isn’t balanced

serene vapor
#

Master mode is as balanced as an anvil at one end of a see-saw

small timber
#

master mode is balanced around player power level

#

tldr lets start power creeping items

proper granite
#

im very partial to the idea of onion doing something in master even if in practice it changes absolutely nothing because the psychological effect is "okay now that youve went all this way on a harder difficulty we're going to handicap you even more and make the stat bloat effect even worse than before since everything is balanced around having master mode slots on expert mode"

#

like make it give a three percent increase to crit chance or something so it doesnt feel like such a slap to the face so late in the playthrough

small timber
#

what if

#

just what if

#

it give 20 minutes of Stinky debuff from stink potion

#

it is the perfect solution

sand marlin
#

Even the wiki says "6th/7th slot on classic/expert" not just an extra slot

small timber
#

tbh master mode 8th slots was needed for the player

#

until they added a bunch of super strong defensive accessories, then it is definitely no longer needed

#

the player is never really weak on the offensive front, just weak defensively (in master mode); now that it is resolved there is even less of a reason to give the player the 8th slot

sand marlin
#

Mobility has always been broken as hell and got better over the course

#

It's not even about nohitting, you can just comically fuck off into the distance

#

Bobbit hookboosting is hilarious

small timber
#

the fact that mobility being broken is basically 2 points:

  1. balloon jump existing (and still existing)
  2. some bosses that should have desperately need arena still don't have arena (like cryogen)
sand marlin
#

Cryogen has good enough an enrage anyway

#

Unless you make a specific snow arena you won't have that much space to go around

#

Or your tundra is flat if you're lucky

small timber
#

bobbit hookboosting is good, but most player don't really use it, and also mainly that if a boss can be defeated by just flinging yourself at really high speed it is not just an issue with mobility, it is more so the boss itself

#

90% of cryogen attacks are dodged by moving in a straight line really fast

sand marlin
#

That doesn't make an 8th slot necessary either way

small timber
#

by arena I mean like scal arena kind of arena, not just an "exo arena" or "hallowed arena" etc

#

as in actual arena that restrict your movement a lot

sand marlin
#

SCal's only big attacks against mobility are bullet hell and maybe brothers

#

Everything else is just very liable

#

Everything in normal phases are just free

#

To be fair bullet hell is common enough

small timber
#

what I mean is bosses like cryogen should have arena, like scal arena (maybe a different size)

sand marlin
#

I mean

#

Idk where you would go with that

#

Just slapping a box is a bad idea

small timber
#

another example is ravager, PG, calclone, cultist etc

small timber
#

I use scal arena as an example because it is the most obvious idea of "restrictive arena" in cal, not necessarily that all bosses should be put in a similar box

#

eg: golem temple room is an arena, providence have a "soft" arena due to holy inferno range, yharon restrict horizontal movement, plantera/cv/polterghast dungeon room etc etc

sand marlin
#

Cultist is still a pushover so it doesn't need anything, Guards need a lot of horizontal movement and your vertical is limited by... wait did profaned guardians get hell/hallow requirement removed yet? Ravager Idk how that would go but as long as the fist attacks go then I'm fine with ravager as a whole

steep patrol
#

Guardian enrage if out of biome more than 5 sec iirc

small timber
#

cultist is a pushover not just because its move set is not super hard, but also because 90% of their attack can be dodged by just running away

sand marlin
#

Oh they still have their biome requirements nvm

#

Cultist sucked in vanilla it sucks everywhere honestly what do you even do with this boss

#

It's more of a miniboss that's annoying in any pt

small timber
#

except for like I think the fire attack will curve into you if you run in a straight line, and it dont work on lightning if you are too far away, I don't remember cultist's attack that is not trivialized by just moving away really fast

sand marlin
#

The only reason I don't hate cultist more is because of the loot and content locked behind him

#

This guy desparately needs to be redone

small timber
#

people can try to fight cultist in like (actually this time) death mode scal box, probably is still not too hard but probably will go from "pushover" level to mid difficulty at least (mid as in slightly above easy)

that is the basic idea yeah

sand marlin
#

Anyway moving back
We've pretty much proved mobility does enough for master so the mode still doesn't necessiate an 8th slot for post ML

small timber
#

redone is much rarer and harder to do then just give more restriction to the fight
they can just make the attacks harder of course, like what they did with some in the changelog now

sand marlin
small timber
#

how many mobility option is not just "balloon jump is overpowered"

#

I mean as in literally

#

I actually don't remember anything other than bobbit hook and balloon jump that stands out, maybe dunerider boots

sand marlin
#

Every single dash has good control and distance management, except when it's on ornate line you use it almost all the time so its relevance is insane
Magiluminescence dominates the entire game
Stacking mobility bonuses and Quick acc reforge makes you just fast as fuck too, combined with regular boots

#

Oh yeah Shadow armor is very stupid

#

It's like magiluminescence on crack

#

Except you can stack them and just become the most evasive thing in the world with all the control and speed you want

#

Thanks to the recent bug too it's relevant until like necro/statigel for melee ranger

small timber
#

so the issue is literally just most bosses cant do anything to you if you just walk in a straight line really fast

sand marlin
#

Even well made bosses can't account for the stupid shit these things do

#

Ok not "well made"

#

Let me rephrase that

#

Bosses with more restrictions

#

My coming point is Infernum for the most part and some of Eternity mode is also subject to this and it's because mobility is broken and not because the bosses still have flaws
Cal's bosses are very basic so yes they will be much more vulnerable

#

Mobility is kind of balanced by the fact that having good control requires skill but also doesn't kind of

small timber
#

those mods account for it by basically making it so attacks are omnidirectional/disregarding your current position

#

it works as a solution, but it also impose drastic changes in boss design, particularly in many cases in can result in many attacks become "find the gap and let it resolve" kind of situation

#

which is why on the above instead of proposing it I just think making more bosses have arena restriction is better, since it gives a restriction without generally having to change most bosses design

sand marlin
#

I mean the point wasn't that they have a different philosophy or aren't like cal but it's because they have more restrictions than cal and are still vulnerable

#

I'd say if you were to restrict it, it'd be more like scal's box and bullet hells

#

That's probably the best way to just force an interaction

#

Even if it may be an entirely different scenario

small timber
sand marlin
#

Yharon works, polter's tile aggression is gone, prov is... I mean I don't think that's what makes you stay close to prov

#

It's because prov's attacks offscreen are very dangerous

#

Spear that accelerates, holy ray, orb bullet hell that starts slow

small timber
#

but yeah if back to topic:

I dont think mobility is a good argument for not having 8 slots, because for the most part mobility represent either of the following:

  1. mobility is so good that it trivialize attacks (this is more so issue with mobility items than having extra slots)
  2. you use mobility to dodge attack (this is more so the player is good)
#

offense and defense is just stat requirement so the difference of having +1 slot or -1 slot is just whether you have more of 1 stat

mobility works entirely differently

#

if mobility is causing issue if you have 8 slots, chances are it is already causing issue at 7, or 6 slots

sand marlin
#

1- Doesn't that just make you able to use another mobility item and trivialize attacks again HDFailure

#

That's counterproductive

small timber
#

like I said if mobility items can trivialize attacks it is either due to mobility item being overpowered or boss attacks do not account for it

because mobility should give you more control in a fight that allow you to move around or dodge better, not completely trivialize an attack

sand marlin
#

And like, I don't really agree with giving more lenience to the player for playing a harder mode. If you're playing a harder mode you're obviously better or will get better at the game and therefore use mobility in better ways

small timber
sand marlin
#

Well we're definitely not getting all mobility gutted so 8th slot just won't be happening anyway

#

This just seems more like giving the player lenience for trying to do a harder mode without making it actually harder

#

Post Moon Lord is supposed to have a difficulty spike

#

If the game gets much harder from there on in master mode it was already meant to be that way

#

In every other difficulty

#

And it's comparable to the spike relative to the modes with its previous stages

small timber
#

the difficulty spike is the stats, enemy gain more stats than you gain from 1 slot of offense/defense accessory
which is why mobility is entirely different yes, since mobility can be the difference of taking 0 or taking a hit

sand marlin
#

I'm not talking about the stats

#

Post Moon Lord is obviously harder than the rest of the game

#

In any difficulty

#

(Ignoring sentinels)

#

If you're good enough at the game to play master mode casually then mobility would be your go to and you would not need an 8th slot

#

Besides some powerspikes like beetle defense and sponge being very forgiving with (non continuous) hit taking and etc. oh yeah Bloodflare Core would also actually still work in tank builds in master

small timber
#

the question is how good the sample is

#

if someone can play master mode casually, chances are they don't just don't need 8th slot, they also don't have to spec mobility and can just spec 6 offense and dodge everything

sponge etc is good as many had said, but also lack in consideration that compare to the average players they are still vastly more experienced, because sponge in no way is a newplayer-friendly accessory yet it is considered as overpowered

#

the average player playing master mode actually need the 8th slot (just see how many play with clutch like wing slot which is basically 8th slot and struggle), the decision I think is mostly just:

  1. we balanced thing around 7 slot so we don't want to change it
  2. adding 8th slot is a hassle

And imo much less so the 8th slot will have a very big impact to most of the community other than for people who are already good at the game

#

but yeah, I guess 8th slot have like 0% chance of being added anyway and wingslot is basically a perfect alternative so

sand marlin
#

This is so true

#

Just tell everyone who asks for 8th slot to use wingslot

#

Oh my god

small timber
#

also this is the true mobility item in the game

tender crater
#

I've only been playing master/death for a long time since expert feels too easy at this point, and I'm a bit torn on whether the 8th slot should happen

#

I think a better solution would be to tweak some of the HP values of postML bosses since some of the scaling is quite fucky and makes some fights drag for more than they should, DoG and exos being the prime example

#

Also based on the changelogs, It seem the team is trying to officially support master as a difficulty option, so the extra slot might be necessary if they decide to go crazy on the postML bosses' patterns

olive saddle
#

^

#

poor calamity team having to work with FUCKING MASTER MODE XD

tender crater
#

Master mode is overhated, there's so many ways of optimizing damage in cal that fights don't take that much longer

#

If anything, bosses fucking melt in expert if you know what you're doing lol

olive saddle
#

its not the health increase

#

its the damage increase

#

they shouldnt deal that much damage to you

tender crater
#

Defense is also not that hard to cover, specially with how ridiculous defensive accessories are in cal compared to offensive

#

For example, early into postML you can either go with the wall of text of effects that is the absorber

Or an avenger emblem with +7 flat damage

#

You're already gonna go with the former all the time anyways, so damage taken isn't as drastic as one might think

olive saddle
tender crater
#

It's not, like, my point was pretty much the opposite lol

#

It's one of the best accessories in the game, and most other defensive tools such as the sponge, the purity line, bloodflare core, and even earlygame stuff like rover driver are usually stronger than the offensive accessories

median scaffold
#

Stop tanking
Embrace dodging and killing bosses in nano-seconds

sleek turret
#

Sub-20sec Yharon Speedkill

#

tbf atleast in pre-hm I don't really need that much mobility when I play master

#

the only 3 accs I really pick are balloons, amphibian and mag and reforge everything to damage or defense

#

I even started to reconsider using mag if I opted for flying all the time since the speed boost is only applicable for ground movement

drowsy plank
#

@unkempt fern Sorry, Specific Item Suggestions are against our rules; please review them in the pins if you haven't already

#

also that sounds like a horrible idea XD

grim tusk
#

Amalgamated brain is already op as fuck

#

Now add bloody worm scarf which is also op as fuck

drowsy plank
#

honestly in cal i rarely use an emblem because why would i when i could just be using amal brain HDfailure

#

i only end up using one once they get upgrades and can actually start outclassing brain in terms of utility

median scaffold
#

I thought you were fucking kidding.

#

Valhalla perfectly balanced, ig

drowsy plank
#

lol

median scaffold
#

And sentries in general

sand marlin
#

Better put some decaying dr on phase transitions Ig

#

Extremely exploitable boss

#

Only in this context I mean

sleek turret
#

There's probably more to explore at this point

tender crater
#

I'd say just bring back the invincibility between phase transitions

#

It fucks over adrenaline somewhat but if yharon is going to go from phase to phase on a completely defenseless state, it shouldn't be able to be damaged to this extend, the extra DR% during phase swapping isn't exactly a big help

sleek turret
sand marlin
#

You don't really know how much decaying dr would do

#

It can completely topple adren with enough

tender crater
#

You mean reactive DR?

sand marlin
#

No

#

Decaying phase transition dr

tender crater
#

Never heard that term before

sand marlin
#

It would be a very short duration but it would start strongly

#

Infernum Yharon specifically uses this

tender crater
#

I see

sand marlin
#

You just wait like a couple seconds after transition then most if not all the additional dr would decay

tender crater
sleek turret
#

XDDDDDD

tender crater
#

Spikecrag in particular got its damage cut to 1/3rd and it still does too much idfk how that thing got approved

royal tapir
#

Summoner balance

#

🔥 ✍️ 🐴

wide river
#

How balanced...

sleek turret
median scaffold
# royal tapir 🔥 ✍️ 🐴

I forgot who was cooking with Summoner Balance (AngelVA iirc), but please
Make him the most dramatic nerf, even more than Scarlet Devil one XD

tender crater
#

there's definitely a lot to address, from sentries, to a bunch of currently problematic minions (mirror, buffed ravens...) to minion slots being handed like they're candy

fervent orbit
tender crater
#

and all of these things were a lot worse in the past, idk how it took so long for these thngs to get called out more often

#

memes seems to have the right mindset for the rebalance, i think they already mentioned statis blessing's live execution

median scaffold
median scaffold
tender crater
#

this is one of the few things i've found publicly

wide river
#

From what I remember, minion slots (as a gifted stat) are going to be generally toned down
So less slots are given at different points in the game, lotta minions'll have their base damage nerfed, and yeah Statis' Blessing is getting removed because it was an instant upgrade to Papyrus Scarab which was very much not a good idea

odd cradle
#

Honestly I think a summoner nerf is warranted but they probably should still be the highest DPS class overall
Given how little defense their armors grant, why play a glass cannon if the perfectly normal cannon does fine without having to trade a bunch of defense

chilly narwhal
#

DoG should be tier 5 at boss rush

grim tusk
#

The defense on armors doesnt make much of a difference

#

Unless you’re melee

#

but melee also gets a ton of DR from armors late game

grim tusk
grim tusk
wide river
dreamy trellis
#

Summoner nerfs :(

grim tusk
#

A necessary evil for you to be able to get whips

dreamy trellis
#

Maaannnn

#

Wait does this mean Whip Sub-class wont just have one armor set

grim tusk
#

Perhaps not

#

I cant say yet as we still need to balance all summons

#

At least pre-hm has been going quite well

#

More so early pre-hm

#

Post-EoW malicious

spark ravine
#

Will the summoner damage nerf when holding a non-summon weapon be reverted? Cuz I wasn't really sure why it was decreased to 25%

dreamy trellis
#

Because its not fun???

grim tusk
spark ravine
#

ye figured as much, understandable

grim tusk
#

Back to 50% or less probably

#

The final number was not set in stone

dreamy trellis
#

please less

#

We had a good thing goin’ with 25%, opened up some other gameplay for summoner that wasn’t just summons/whips

spark ravine
#

ye, right now the extra dps you get from using another weapon overpowers the 25% decrease. Reverting it would also encourage people to use those summoner hybrid armors that decrease the penalty (forbidden, monger, etc.)

dreamy trellis
#

theres only like two of them

#

those are the only two of them

grim tusk
spark ravine
spark ravine
spark ravine
dreamy trellis
#

If I want to play hybrid I’d be better off using the armor for the weapon-type im hybriding than summoner or like… any of the DD2 armors

#

And i dont like doing old one’s army all things considered.

sage granite
#

Has anyone asked about getting Demonshade armor reworked? Well I say reworked but more so removing or changing that demon summon, It does a lot of damage but it's also...Underwhelming

spark ravine
sage granite
#

Ah very well then

#

No longer the Jack of all Trades set then

spark ravine
tender crater
# grim tusk Back to 50% or less probably

Imo this is quite excesive, if minions themselves get toned down and the power of summoner is better redistributed to whips and other kinds of tools, then there isn't a need to made the penalty harsher

#

rn hybrid is as strong as it is because most of summoner's brokenness comes from your army, not yourself

dreamy trellis
#

Well thats also because Summon-centrism was like, a thing

#

Since people didn’t like whips and they added a whole new aspect to balance and deal with that screwed with many people’s perception of summoner

odd cradle
#

Honestly until they add whips they shouldn't nerf summoner

#

Leaving them to dry like that would be awful

grim tusk
#

Otherwise stormlion would deal like 8 dmg

#

And heck I fixed a bug for Stormlion

odd cradle
#

Awesome

misty lichen
#

stormlion deals 11 damage i don’t think that would be the end of the world

buoyant idol
#

Defense:

north oracle
#

Besides, snapthorn would carry whether pre HM summons were nerfed or not at this point

misty lichen
#

snapthorn poison should be a tag effect ngl

#

instead of letting you kill creepers in 8 seconds

tender crater
#

The poison was made not guaranteed in 1.4.4, but i can see how it would synergize too well with the cal debuff system and irradiated

#

... actually why is preboss irradiated even a thing

grim tusk
tender crater
misty lichen
#

no wulfrum whip i fear

tender crater
#

Wulfrum whip would go hard

#

And actually have a decent available for the point in the game its meant to be obtained, unlike leather

grim tusk
novel belfry
#

I LOVE WULFRUM

north oracle
#

It's really strong on just about everything in pre HM

grim tusk
#

Ye snapthorn is going to fucking die

drowsy plank
#

the last dedicated snapthorn test in tiercord literally caused it to half the killtimes..,.,.,.

grim tusk
#

Its tag dmg is prolly dropping to 5 and its damage is “maybe” getting halved

drowsy plank
#

mfw 1:10 eye goes to a 0:35 eye

tender crater
#

I find that very difficult to believe, vanilla snapthorn isn't breaking too many things outside of BoC

drowsy plank
#

vanilla isn't balanced HDfailure

#

i mean maybe around itself but

tender crater
#

What minions were used for the test again?

north oracle
# grim tusk Ye snapthorn is going to fucking die

Angel already had a theoretical "balanced" nerf from catalyst, and that was so so much further than what we actually ended up doing
It was insane how low its damage had to be brought to not shred anything

grim tusk
grim tusk
drowsy plank
#

yeah i know we're finally just falling in line with the jungle being post-EoC balance philo but it's still mad funny

grim tusk
#

It would be a good starting point

north oracle
#

Yeh, although it felt pretty bad to use lmao

tender crater
#

That's kinda what happens when you shoot a weapon on the leg

north oracle
#

And yet that was what was needed to bring it in line

drowsy plank
#

catalyst snapthorn is fine, it's not great, it's just another whip

grim tusk
#

Good
Snapthorn dead, millions must use the Victide one that is already in the game

drowsy plank
#

smh why doesn't calmain have :true:

north oracle
tender crater
#

Again, I'm very skeptical, wouldn't leather just straight up be better than catalyst snapthorn

grim tusk
drowsy plank
#

i feel like you're looking at this from a very vanilla point of view which just does not reflect calamity's method of balancing summoner at all

grim tusk
north oracle
#

Is there a finalized contribution from whips yet for cal's balance
It's been quite a while, so has there been a consensus on that sort of thing

tender crater
novel belfry
#

i think the problem most people have with calam's struggle with whips is that there's two completely different ideas on how to balance summoner, and calamity's chosen method isn't the same as vanilla

tender crater
#

the biggest disparity between the two would be the debuff system and more minion slots, but the latter is getting corrected, is it not?

drowsy plank
#

that's just at a surface level

novel belfry
#

but that is what most people see generally sooooo

grim tusk
drowsy plank
#

you aren't considering things like cal's improved minion AI, improved iframe interactions, generally stronger early game gear, etc.

north oracle
novel belfry
#

oh, and before whips were a thing calamity had a few active summoner weapons that werent whips

tender crater
#

i'll take something like flinx over the robo-frogs or the puffshroom any day of the week in terms of reliability

grim tusk
tender crater
#

oh right the puppet summons, my favorite mage weapon

north oracle
grim tusk
#

Hmm yea the puppets could deal tag but have their damage or attack speed nerfed to the ground to compensate

#

I can see it

north oracle
#

tag also kinda sucks
That could work tho, giving them actual synergy with minions

tender crater
#

tags should probably not be universal to all whips for the sake of variety, but they definitely work better than the current multiplicative bonuses

#

then again they're just a temporary patch iirc, so

grim tusk
#

Plan is to bring flat back in some capacity (nerfed probably (especially spinal tap and snapthorn)) for early game due to minions dealing not enough dmg

tender crater
#

i'm fine with the tags being made weaker if minion strenght is still more emphasized

north oracle
#

Meh, tag whether it's multiplicative or additive has lasting balance problems for most of the game
I massively prefer the tag effects that have special effects that are synergistic with the minions themselves, because those don't last from post WoF till Yharon

tender crater
#

if this is vagueposting about firecracker, i can guarantee you it doesn't last that long lol

north oracle
#

(Firecracker does in fact last that long)

tender crater
#

specially ever since the universal change done to "consume all minion slots" minions (except for abandoned slime staff for some reason) made them just regular minions that consume more slots than normal

#

most minions don't get to synergize with it all that well

north oracle
#

That uh
Didn't matter, CVE combined well enough with it anyway

tender crater
#

i find that hard to believe, the tag only works for one of the ships per whip

#

while kaei has way better range, works for every minion and has its tag lasting for way longer, and considering how many minion slots you get in postML, the kalei tag on everyone is def gonna outdamage the cracker one on one minion

#

also being unable to swap to debuff guns while using cracker since you're missing out on reaplying the tag while kalei lets you get away with that

north oracle
#

I'm not saying it's better than kaleidoscope it was before tags but that's another question
I'm saying it is stronger than it should be all the way till then

grim tusk
#

Cracker is a x2.75 for 1 hit if you can apply it consistently its better
Otherwise Kalei wins

tender crater
#

it works at its best when all of your stocks are put into a singular entity

#

tiger being the best example, although idk if that's still any effective in cal

novel belfry
#

or just make the puppet and borealis into active summoner weapons like the Igneous Exaltation

north oracle
novel belfry
#

i'd LOVE more active weapons, and it might make puppet and borealis much more interesting that "Mage weapons that deal summoner damage"

fervent orbit
tender crater
north oracle
fervent orbit
#

the minions that were used are as follows: sanguine, blade, deepsea, dormant brimseeker, daedalus golem, xeno, godspawn helix, elemental axe, tactical plague engine, dragonblood disgorger, cosmic viper engine, yharons kindle staff

#

these are all just

north oracle
#

Several of those minions are not known for their high base damage

fervent orbit
#

normal minions mainly

tender crater
#

why the fuck was blade tested with them lmfao

north oracle
#

Blade, eaxe, and deep-sea have notably low base damage

tender crater
#

it has negative synergy

north oracle
#

And yet it was still incredibly strong

tender crater
#

yeah no i have to call bs on that

fervent orbit
#

it was only for brimmy

#

Brimstone Elemental:
Blade Staff - 2:25
With Firecracker - 1:58

tender crater
#

there's no way blade is better with firecracker than with tag whips

fervent orbit
#

still reduced it by 27 seconds tho

tender crater
#

that's like, not that impressive considering the whip itself still does damage on its own

fervent orbit
#

do you realise how whips work in cal

tender crater
#

yes i know i know

sleek turret
#

Do the times registered show what loadout was used in particular...

novel belfry
#

mm

tender crater
#

but tags are coming back, so that's the logistics i'm running with

#

obviously cracker would be better against blank/extremely low mult. tags

#

but like, that's "by default" rather than cracker being this godly tool

#

it gets to be better because its tag actually works, if the others also worked, the story would be a bit different

grim tusk
fervent orbit
north oracle
fervent orbit
#

idk what planet ur on, but i wouldnt call one third through the game "early game"

grim tusk
sleek turret
#

Y'all slow.

north oracle
#

Yeh, not for the stage they're talking about

fervent orbit
north oracle
#

Snapthorn and spinal tap makes sense

tender crater
#

huh, i thought they were gonna stay for the whole game

#

well nvm then

north oracle
tender crater
#

not sure if i have much else to say then, discussing rethoricals when i'm not part of the playtesting team isn't gonna bring much to the table

sleek turret
golden sonnet
#

There are standardized testing loadouts

fervent orbit
#

this is the gear reference that practically everyone uses for testing

#

anyways

#

i take my leave now

tender crater
#

these were before the default dash i imagine? it would explain why SoC is an insta-lock in all of these

north oracle
#

No, just because SoC is useful as one of the 3 non offensive accs
It's been updated since then

tender crater
#

i see, i don't get as much out of it anymore since the insta-acceleration is what i find most useful in preHM dashes

#

that does change as dash lenght and stuff like ram parries are added into the mix tho, but oh boy am i glad i don't have to deal with bonks anymore

grim tusk
#

Its just there for instant turning

tender crater
#

i mean, yeah lol that's the point

#

it would be stupid if it was also a good burst movement tool

sleek turret
#

Me when the basic dash that is integrated without a dash is used for instant turning!

#

(It's literally for making EoC more bearable)

#

Like if EoC wasn't easy enough the dash you can use for insta acceleration (because THAT'S the thing with the dash) for turning makes it way easier

#

It's why probably magluminiscense is also broken because just accelerating quickly while on air or ground (without a dash) is broken

grim tusk
#

Magi was nerfed to the ground before default dash existed

#

After default dash we unnerfed it

#

And to be fair Magi is like post-EoC tier so its fine

tender crater
#

the nerf was definitely kinda overkill lol

novel belfry
#

there should be another dash accessory pre-Skeletron

tender crater
#

it was stronger back on 1.4.3 but still, it was kinda just shot

novel belfry
#

cause all you get is Shield

#

sure scarfs pretty strong in certain cases

sleek turret
#

You mean like, a ram or something?

novel belfry
#

but most people are going to use shield of cthulhu til they get ornate shield and only use ram dashes

#

(not a ram fuck no)

#

i dont want more rams

#

i want more every other dash

tender crater
#

scarfs having ram would break the game appart lmfao

novel belfry
#

i like scarf

#

keep it like that

tender crater
#

i think they could start with buffing existing dashes so that they can be more on part with rams

sleek turret
#

So basically a dash like the old lore cryo item

tender crater
#

statis ninja belt being postprovi in the same game where asgard valor exists is kinda sad

sleek turret
#

Just tweak it to be a bit stronger than SoC

spark ravine
#

I still find it funny that the scarf bros are the strongest dodges in the game (not saying a whole lot, but still)

novel belfry
#

i just dont like that rams are the best dashes because not only mechanically but also their accessories are really good

sleek turret
#

Wouldn't it be better to separate the debuff immunity line with the rams line

tender crater
#

i think rams are a fun movement/defensive tool but it's true that the shields just get a ton of bonuses on top of it while the belts just get, like

#

6% jump speed

#

it's really sad

sleek turret
#

Honestly I'd just take out the debuffs immunity from rams because that's a huge bonus from them

#

Does Valor still give hp bonuses?

spark ravine
#

no

sleek turret
#

Good

spark ravine
#

defence, immunity, ram dash, knockback immunity

grim tusk
#

New message in posting!
Nothing there

Scam bots moment

fervent orbit
#

REAL

#

same with lore discussion

#

and spoiler

floral yoke
#

I will say, ram dashes are pretty strong, especially being tied to an already powerful shield like others have said

grim tusk
#

I agree and thats why they got changes recently
i wanted em nerfed harder ngl

#

We are seeing what to do with tabi dashes

#

Cuz these have dodges

floral yoke
#

They could be like shorter if it weren’t very useful for DoG specifically

drowsy plank
#

it doesnt help that tabi dodge is still random

tender crater
#

i think the first course of action would be making the upgrades to the ninja gears more substantial

grim tusk
#

We already dealt with that

drowsy plank
#

oh really?

tender crater
#

again, statis ninja belt is extremely underwhelming as an upgrade

drowsy plank
#

i never heard about that

floral yoke
#

Yeah because ninja gear is very uh

grim tusk
#

But atm the dodge is shit compared to Brain or Abyssal Mirror

floral yoke
#

I was disappointed

drowsy plank
#

oh i meant like

tender crater
#

aren't they the exact same dodge

drowsy plank
#

versus scarf

tender crater
#

like, same cooldown and same 90s timer

grim tusk
floral yoke
#

But then again brain and it’s upgrades for dodges…

grim tusk
#

I talked about reducing it to 70 but didnt get traction on dev

floral yoke
#

Dodging an attack is no small thing either

drowsy plank
#

honestly they'd be fine if they had stronger secondary effects like valor, AND also let the dodge be controlled like scarf

tender crater
#

maybe have the cooldown of dodges reduced if you stack multiple? nothing too crazy, obviously deminishing returns should be a thing, but that's technically a way of making the dodge not redundant if you have other dodge accessories at hand

floral yoke
#

Unless you reduce dodge cd via an item or effect

#

Also I noticed a trend of dash velocity, and other dash stat effects, maybe that can be used to tweak some dashes? I.E. Rams are slower and you recover from it slower whereas ninja dashes are quite fast/responsive

tender crater
#

considering ram dashes are mobile parries...yeah, they should not be as spammeable as the belt dashes, forcing you to time them carefully

floral yoke
#

Rams should definitely not be as brainless considering it’s raw power yeah

#

Would also incentivize using the dash buff accessories that have been being added like slagsplitter and duke scales, if you really want to improve your dash

misty lichen
#

rams should definitely just have a stricter timing

floral yoke
#

A little bit longer recovery time at least

misty lichen
#

to where like you can spam it but you need to time it precisely to actually get any iframes

#

idk if longer cooldown would accomplish much

floral yoke
#

Maybe it could have a small windup before you get iframes, however that might make it unsatisfying on the user end

#

Dashes are already very temperamental as is, accidental dashes and ones that never go off

sleek turret
#

make belt upgrades have reduced dash cd

#

I had an idea that they're weaker Godslayer set bonuses where you have a multidirectional dash

golden sonnet
#

Counter scarf is already incredibly strong, but I think having the statis belt line have the same dash would put it in a very good spot

sleek turret
#

Without the invulnerability that Godslayer provides

floral yoke
#

Really is a matter of either making rams weaker or making ninja dashes stronger

drowsy plank
floral yoke
#

Didn’t dash keybind have like a billion issues when it was first introduced

#

I remember seeing so many bug logs on that lol

misty lichen
#

yeah and it’s been like 6 months

drowsy plank
#

yeah i havent had an issue with it yet and i use it exclusively so

floral yoke
#

Tbh I don’t think I remember seeing the keybind option, I might be blind

sleek turret
#

On par with making rams weaker

floral yoke
#

Ninja dashes definitely need some love

sleek turret
#

Especially as soon as you get Valor because dear God it's a lot of stuff on 1 acc that you get post-Plantera

misty lichen
#

sashes are fine

sleek turret
#

Debuff immunity (to practically all debuffs at that point), knockback immunity, a special dash that gives you immunity frames when you get in contact, a good amount of defense for an acc

floral yoke
#

It really is more an issue of shields with ram being so much it’s like wings 2.0 in terms of usefulness

golden sonnet
#

The debuff immunity is not very relevant

floral yoke
#

At least, because kb immunity is necessary

golden sonnet
floral yoke
#

Or at least, extremely annoying without

sleek turret
#

kb is absolutely necessary but I feel like it's given for free for Valor when you get it

#

It's also a thing that in post-Plant you also get many other shield accs like Hero or Frozen which are options to it

golden sonnet
#

As someone who never uses knockback immunity until valor, I think it's highly overrated

north oracle
#

^

wide river
#

It's not a necessary thing to have, but I still always go out of my way to get it because I don't like knockback
Really it's a player-by-player kind of stat

floral yoke
#

Honestly it really doesn’t have much use for people who dodge, but look at the majority of the playerbase

sleek turret
#

It's anecdotal and personal

north oracle
#

there really aren't many situations where you truly get comboed by a lack of kb immunity imo

golden sonnet
#

Agreed