suggestions-discussion

[golden sonnet]

it is better

[glass arch]

morning star is an issue yeah but it gets outscaled by kaleido
which brings me back to my previous statement

[median scaffold]

Both of them are good
One as both in a whip stack and the main whip, and the second one is just whip stack (or a whip before harvest/kaleidoscope)

[glass arch]

yes

and kaleido is the better one of the 2

[median scaffold]

I think the real issue with both of them are still mostly in Calamity, mainly because summoner isn't balanced aroung having whips and it's minions deal a shit ton of damage for no reason(?)

[median scaffold]

Overall - yeah, sure

[glass arch]

not for no reason

its because thats what needed to happen before whips existed

[median scaffold]

Hm, I thought the big damage issue came to play only after 1.4 port
I'm guess there's that

Summoner needs a rebalance in Calamity to be a proper class and not an issue we have today

[glass arch]

nah the big damage only became an issue in the 1.4 port because thats when whips came in and broke everything

[median scaffold]

(When the vanilla summoner became a full-developered class... funny)

[novel belfry]

i think EoL should regain her nohit capacity, and kaledioscope should be locked exclusively behind that form

lock that annoying balance-breaking bitch away in the chains of primordial light

[median scaffold]

Vanilla wise?

[novel belfry]

eol lost her nohit damage in calamity, so im referring to cal

[median scaffold]

Oh, okay

[novel belfry]

im also not entirely serious about that, at best that should be a preliminary balance before an actually balanced kaledioscope can be done

[median scaffold]

Ngl, the rdr being full 3 minutes is shit

[brittle apex]

If your opinion is that more sentries would enhance gameplay and make the experience better for everyone, then "ADD SENTRIES" would in fact be a suggestion to make mod better (technically)

[median scaffold]

I think that sentries, as much as tmelee, need some love in the future updates. They even have some armor, making them a little bit more distinguishable then most of the other subclasses (tmelee, spell tome mage, etc)
But at the same time, summoner isn't in the best state (even in vanilla), so I won't be making those kind of suggestions before any massive summoner rebalance update(-s). And yeah, it's kinda against the rules

[drowsy plank]

sentry armors are definetly something i think cal needs but the summoner update sort of proceeds any sort of real work that could be done on such a thing

[median scaffold]

Yeah. I think that we can't do suggest anything summoner-related, like new whips or weapons in general, because summoner in it's current stage is really unbalanced
And suggesting more weapons/armors will, most likely, be a lot more work for devs that are currently working on rebalance

[ashen warren]

Did they launch new recipes on tl pro?

[golden sonnet]

wdym?

[hollow shell]

(they were confused about someone calling themself "Calamity Team" publishing a mod onto a mobile Terraria modding API)

[median scaffold]

[novel belfry]

whats the reasoning behind why RDR still remains on Night Prov and Day EoL?

[median scaffold]

I think that exists so you can't really cheese them
But... 3 minutes for EoL is a little bit too much imo

[novel belfry]

RDR imo is an incredibly lazy to do when you can just like

adjust the stats?

i already railed against RDR back when that got applied to Malice Mode bosses

absolutely stupid concept

if its any consolation tho, nobody really goes after night prov and day eol so its not really that much of a problem anymore

[median scaffold]

It's also kinda stupid, ngl

[novel belfry]

although, speaking of night prov, she's in a really weird spot

[golden sonnet]

The point is to make them an actual challenge

[novel belfry]

whats the intended time to fight night prov?

[median scaffold]

I guess why they will make daytime EoL have RDR, but again: 3. Fucking. Minutes.

[novel belfry]

I feel like there's other ways of making certain bosses an actual challenge that isnt like

[median scaffold]

Around 2 minutes for no-hits, but that is somewhat different

[novel belfry]

neutering the player damage for simply being too good

[novel belfry]

no i mean in progression

[median scaffold]

Oh, idk
You can just go for her post-ml

But... maybe post-polterghast/post-dog?
Why would you do that, tho

[novel belfry]

again, RDR only makes things way more annoying

it's a good thing that it's not really prevalent anymore, fuck that mechanic

[wide river]

There's no real "intended" point to fight her

Nighttime Providence is an extra challenge you can do, but you will not be rewarded for doing so beyond increased material gains (and the dye but that's not a "functional" drop)

Kinda like Dungeon Guardian in a way
Really annoying to fight, not much reward, but you can do it

[novel belfry]

i dont like that comparsion tho

nighttime prov seems like it exists purely to be an extra challenge

[median scaffold]

I think it is

[novel belfry]

dungeon guardian was made to kill players who tried to go into dungeon before killing skeletron

not the best comparison

[median scaffold]

And in Infernum it's even more pointless, but that's not this chat's discussion

[novel belfry]

infernum night prov seems like a nohit challenge, she has the same health as normal prov but does WAY more damage

[wide river]

(Why are we bringing Infernum into this)

[median scaffold]

(Because I said that it makes even less sense in Infernum, but also said that it is not this channel's discussion)

[novel belfry]

yea

[novel belfry]

@quiet kettle sorry but that's way too specific

[quiet kettle]

why cant it be specific

[novel belfry]

the sugg guide says this:

Specific and particular new items were a popular suggestion in the past, but statistics showed that they were almost never implemented. They had the potential to be very extensive and drown out other suggestions. Instead of suggesting that a specific item be added with all its stats and functionality specified, you should explain the problem with there not being a certain kind of item in a certain place, and explain how adding such an item would solve that problem and improve the mod.

It is usually a valid suggestion to say “Add some item which fits these criteria”. For example, “Add an upgrade to the Absorber”.

[quiet kettle]

so youre saying they just gave up with specific suggestions because they didnt really get picked?

that doesnt make sense to me

[fervent orbit]

you should be focusing on a problem, not an implenetation of the solution to it

[quiet kettle]

i just thought it would be cool

[buoyant idol]

Generally, coolness isn't a valid reason. Problem solving is where most reasoning can be derived from.

[quiet kettle]

gearsaw?

what are you doing here?

[buoyant idol]

I'm in a lot of places.

[novel belfry]

same

[glass arch]

@atomic shell the reason it doesnt specify the amount is because it doesnt actually increase regen

it increases the rate at which your regen increases

[novel belfry]

wh

[atomic shell]

bro what

I’ll reword it

[glass arch]

it is the wackiest shit and i dont understand it either

i just know the set bonus isnt an actual regen increase

[misty lichen]

“specify the regen it gives” ok tell me how much regen it gives

[atomic shell]

so what should i put as crimson armor’s actual set bonus effect

[glass arch]

genuinely no idea

[misty lichen]

you tell me there’s a reason it doesn’t specify

[atomic shell]

[misty lichen]

that shit be greatly increasing life regeneration fr

[atomic shell]

so confusing i can’t even write a suggestion wtf

[small timber]

no one understand how crimson armor effect and shiny stone works

[glass arch]

yeah the formula for regen is batshit

[hollow idol]

what psycho wrote this (don't answer that)

[wide river]

What Red code does to a modder

[misty lichen]

copy paste this into the tooltip actually

[atomic shell]

I’ll just go with this I guess

either way “greatly increased life regen” is definitely too vague

[small timber]

you forgot to include the calamity's formula where your life regen is weaker when nearing max HP since this is vanilla life regen formula

[misty lichen]

MORE NUMBERS

[royal tapir]

I mean that’s just a Lerp function

[sand marlin]

Accelerates natural life regeneration perhaps

[modern rapids]

is that a bug report that made it to #suggestions-voting lol

[north oracle]

guh

Must've been buried or smthing

[crude geode]

is it really a bug report

considering the gills potion effect is like. intended to do that, and armors/accessories give gills effect

[north oracle]

Bug reports is also for oversights, which this would fall under

[hollow shell]

It may have been a matter of haha funny FTW/GFB change

Semi intentional, decided it was fine for it to be stupid

[sand marlin]

Good sugg

[glossy reef]

i dont know if this is a oversight or not so im gonna ask here because idk where else to

ive noticed that calamity dyes seem to work differently from vanilla dyes

and frankly it makes a lot of them look like ass on a lot of stuff

ok ok so take blue acid dye and astral blue dye for instance

they both apply a swirling blue tint to whatever you use them on

and they both seem to work properly on a neutral colored armor, like silver for instance

but if you take a more brightly colored armor

like pumpkin just for an example

the vanilla dye sort of... idk what the right word is, "overrides" the color of the armor

turns this orange armor totally blue

the calamity dye, on the other hand, does not

the original color of the armor still comes through

and so you get this gross puke green color instead

this seems to be consistent with all of the animated calamity dyes

but, again, none of the animated vanilla dyes

nightmare and endothermic dyes work as expected

and seem to be consistent with how vanilla dyes function

i dont know why this happens

i dont know if its intentional

i dont know if its an oversight, a glitch, a technical issue, or what

i figured id bring it up here so that someone more knowledgeable than me could perhaps give some insight or look into this further

also to ask if i should report this as a bug

because, again, i dont know if it is

[drowsy plank]

@glossy reef no idea if this is an oversight or a bug but either way this should be in #1052323733961977947, not here

also lmao on the sevens striker swap functionality

[glossy reef]

alright, sorry

give me a second to copypaste this into a forum post then i'll clear it

[drowsy plank]

np

go ahead

@muted cradle Do you have permission from the donor to suggest this change?

[muted cradle]

wait I forgor

its a donor item

nooooo

[drowsy plank]

yes

[muted cradle]

:(

whos the donor

[median scaffold]

[drowsy plank]

deltaVexator

[median scaffold]

Where's the suggestion

I wanna read it

[drowsy plank]

in posting?? lmao

anyway idk why u wanna do this

[median scaffold]

Oh, the swap one

[drowsy plank]

the whole point is to use the convert, it's way better than the knock off coin gun anyway lmfao

[median scaffold]

I thought Seven Strikers was just a normal weapon, not a dev one

[glass arch]

its neither

[drowsy plank]

it's not a dev one, it's a donor

[median scaffold]

Donor*, yeah, sorry again

[drowsy plank]

it's fine there's just a p big distinction in that devs are shadowspec only while donors can be anywhere

well, usually shadowspec at least
but idc about being pedantic

[median scaffold]

But Shadowspec can also be donor, ye?

[drowsy plank]

no

hence the distinction

[wide river]

Shadowspec is specifically reserved for developer items

[glass arch]

yeah

[median scaffold]

Makes sense

[glass arch]

or the blocks and dye but thats the exception rather than the rule

[drowsy plank]

it's funny bc shadowspec itself is a dev item

[median scaffold]

Lemme check from who

[wide river]

...blocks?

I know of the dye, but I don't recall seeing a block made of Shadowspec in base Cal

[glossy reef]

im looking in that channel and it really seems like its a place to report specific bugs with known causes, when i dont even know if this is a bug or what could be causing it in the first place

[glass arch]

arent there shadowspec blocks

[drowsy plank]

the cynosure lore item is yharim's dev item

[median scaffold]

[median scaffold]

Yharim is a dev?
Why he didn't add himself into the game yet?
Or is he scared?

[drowsy plank]

post it as a visual bug

well

bug/inconsistency

that's where u submit those

[wide river]

There's blocks made from Exo Prisms and Ashes of Annihilation individually, but not Shadowspec as far as I can tell
Maybe the blocks are from Calamity's Vanities

[glossy reef]

ohh there's an inconsistency tag?

[drowsy plank]

uh no, but that is just how that tag works

[glossy reef]

wait nvm i misunderstood

[drowsy plank]

yeah

as long as you include your log and modlist im sure they'll get what you mean

[hollow shell]

Latest sugg in posting, I full agree
Good and smart suggestion

[drowsy plank]

i also agree but i have to wonder if it's so obvious it should be done that the devs might already know

i do think some of their specific suggestions (lol) would help, like the picks listing suevilite and such

personally i still prefer the "decopodia sprouts grow in mushroom biomes like queen slime summons" in terms of making crabulon's discovery more organic but

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[north oracle]

Yeah, that's a pretty sensible suggestion

[misty lichen]

insanely true sugg

you can also mention aquatic scourges summon being very explicitly craftable preboss with earlygame materials players will find naturally

that one’s way worse than the 2 you mentioned the game makes no effort to tell you it’s a hardmode boss

same with the aureus item all you need is astral dust which you will be finding immediately after killing wof, nothing tells you it’s a post plantera boss stat wise

[golden sonnet]

Astral chunk suffers from this a bit too. My first ever calamity playthrough I did astrageldon as my very first hardmode boss because I didn't know any better and assumed it must be at that tier, so I threw myself at it over and over again

[golden sonnet]

Lmao, you said the same thing while I was typing

[misty lichen]

astrum deus is especially bad i thought it was premech, the game makes a vague status message after cultist is dead that something might be happening in the astral biome

[golden sonnet]

Didn't help that geldon was such a non issue I was able to do it preHM boss

[bright crag]

Brimmy's obscurity will be fixed with Crags overhaul

You'll need to beat her to enter the urban district of Azafure

Crabulon doesn't have such things planned, but we did discuss some sort of natural spawn

[misty lichen]

brimmy as a whole feels unfinished like she doesn’t even have a full weapon set

[hollow shell]

Well that was semi intentional
s'not like the devs only got through some of the classes and said "ehh don't feel like completing the set"

CalClone is similar

Dragonfolly too

(Standards have indeed changed over time regarding bosses and weapon sets
In vanilla it's actually pretty uncommon for bosses to drop a full set
And for a while Ravager, Aureus, and Deus didn't drop weapon sets at all)

((I kinda liked that, considering Rav dropped significant accessories and Deus unlocked the Astral Ore. They didn't need sets on top of that. But, oh well))

[misty lichen]

brim used to give the ore which was a full weapon set

clone gives abyss items i guess and folly is still a miniboss idc what anybody says

vanilla its only like “difficult optional bosses” that drop full sets

qb deerclops duke eol

[fervent orbit]

golem

[median scaffold]

Plantera if I get what are you talking about

I think something needs to be done with Deerclop

[novel belfry]

deerclops needs to be moved to post-ml as a distortion/"dog sentinel" boss

[misty lichen]

no summoner weapon L

[fervent orbit]

wait

really?

holy shit

[grave zinc]

@waxen stone - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[FTW disables armorsets / accessories]

It has officially been implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[distant gyro]

spupid gills flag

[novel belfry]

FINALLY

FUCKING HELL IT TOOK TOO LONG

I HATED THAT

SO FUCKING MUCH

THANK YOU

[glossy reef]

oh god no wonder hp regen has always felt like such a nebulous stat

[median scaffold]

You didn't see luck stat, oh god...

[marsh grotto]

thank god luck isnt a real stat

[median scaffold]

Luckily, we don't need to calculate travelling merchant chance
He just exists

[errant wind]

My suggestion is now too far away

[muted cradle]

@hollow shell I got permission

can the exclamations be removed now

from my suggestion

perms from the donor were the only issue

[hollow shell]

yep, all good

Thank you

[muted cradle]

yey

[hollow shell]

You could edit a line into your suggestion stating that you got permission, if you wanna quell the worries of anyone else who sees it

[muted cradle]

done

[hollow shell]

epic, thanks

[muted cradle]

also quick question

I was thinking about making a suggestion about a hardmode upgrade to the magiluminescence

do you think thats a good idea?

[sand marlin]

The problem with that is magi is viable in post ml

[muted cradle]

damn really?

[sand marlin]

It's used for optimizing movement

[muted cradle]

I didn't think anyone would sacrifice a slot for it

[sand marlin]

Like sure you usually always have a dash but they are not anti synergistic

[muted cradle]

I mean it could be good for nohits cause of mnl

[sand marlin]

They synergize just fine

Mobility is not just made for nohits though

[muted cradle]

personally I wouldn't sacrifice a slot that could be used for extra damage

[muted cradle]

no I mean cause you could replace a potential damage accessory with magi and make the nohit easier

[hollow shell]

There are very few items that remain viable as they are throughout so much of the game, pretty unique case

[sand marlin]

You can say that with most items in the game

[muted cradle]

true

[sand marlin]

In the end if you lack the mobility you want then you'll be worse off

[muted cradle]

fair

[hollow shell]

If Magi would get an upgrade it'd probably not directly improve its movement, so it doesn't become broken good
Introduce some other function that suits it

[hollow shell]

but imo... this is kinda cool

[muted cradle]

but I suppose its my way of playing that makes it less likely for me to use magi later on

[sand marlin]

Ikr 💪(rover)

[muted cradle]

I ❤️ glass cannon

[muted cradle]

could adding it to some other item's recipe and adding the bonuses of the magi be good?

for example angel treads

ykw that'd be too much

[sand marlin]

Angel Treads no it'd be broken, Ascendant Insignia... maybe

[hollow shell]

Worried about it being way too big a buff to whatever you introduce it into

[sand marlin]

Not sure how balanced it'd be but it has the best chance there

[hollow shell]

not a terrible idea

[sand marlin]

Actually nvm it doesn't work for an acc related to flight

[muted cradle]

how about the moab

[sand marlin]

Finally make moab good

[hollow shell]

The functional upgrade could make the Magi effect work while in the air

[muted cradle]

tf you mean finally

its already good

[sand marlin]

I'm sorry, no

[muted cradle]

it serves me magnificently

I like it

[sand marlin]

You may be using it as you wish but it's worse than bundle or wings in general

[hollow shell]

I guess the question is

If Magi is so good as is then why give it an upgrade

Is it just the sense of obligation, considering everything else gets upgraded?

[sand marlin]

Ok MOAB isn't donor I thought it was for some reason

[muted cradle]

what about the seraph or elysian tracers?

its already nearing the end

[sand marlin]

Seraph would be hell to balance, Elysian Tracers already have a retiering in mind

Honestly I don't think it would be bad on MOAB

[muted cradle]

hmmm

lemme check the rules

[hollow shell]

Definitely do not give it to the core wingboots line
People don't need any more reason to fall back on those

[muted cradle]

would suggesting adding the magi to MOAB be against the rules?

[hollow shell]

(long time ago I had the idea to make an alternate boot-only line that goes into PostML so you would have something to equip alongside solo wings, so you use up 2 slots for better mobility than the 1 slot wingboots,
and Magi woulda been included in that boot line

alas, twas another idea that just sat on a Trello)

[hollow shell]

That'd be fine

Just needs to be supported with reasoning as usual

[sand marlin]

That's 1.4.3 cal-nerfed magi right

[hollow shell]

No idea what its balance state was at the time, that wasn't really my concern anyway

[sand marlin]

Ig I should be less focused on the balance aspect

Because it's not unusual for cal to nerf additional effects on combined accs

[muted cradle]

done

[umbral gazelle]

wait people dont use MOAB?

[sand marlin]

Last I saw MOAB being actually used was Levi's nohits tbh

It's just not good rn and very niche(in preference)

[golden sonnet]

The real issue with Moab is that sandstorm has insane horizontal movement, but this is cut in half when using wings. As Moab is wings itself it does the same thing, leading to Moab being a downgrade for the biggest part of BoB

Like, I would unironically rather use BoB than Moab in pretty much every situation

And at late hardmode and especially past that, the amount of movement speed you can stack naturally makes sandstorm even more insane

[median scaffold]

BoB for Yharon

[drowsy plank]

moab be good impossible challenge

[drowsy plank]

this is

[worldly sparrow]

this is very unnecessary

[drowsy plank]

one of the suggestions of all time

[worldly sparrow]

replace the giant ass decryption computer with a button if thats what im hearing

[grim tusk]

Bad things happen when big red buttons are pushed

[calm crag]

nah i mean the blank space to the side of the UI

not the entire block

[errant cradle]

You definitely should've specified that better in your suggestion then

[calm crag]

here

[grim tusk]

A satelite makes more sense as you’re contacting him

[errant cradle]

As it stands now, it sounds like you're asking for the entire Codebreaker Tile to be replaced with a button

[calm crag]

ah

[grim tusk]

Not pushing a “self destruct” button

[errant cradle]

And yeah ^

[worldly sparrow]

also idk how pressing a button could be more climactic
it doesnt make sense imo

[calm crag]

honestly it could be that too

[worldly sparrow]

that's what it is

[calm crag]

i just think that it could have at least a border like the other item slots

[worldly sparrow]

why would it need one?

the borders imply you need to insert an item for the function

[calm crag]

idk it just feels a little out of place for some reason

and i think it would be a simple fix?

but fixed is super subjective here

[errant cradle]

If you just want the empty space to the side to be removed or used up in some way then maybe you could try redoing your suggestion and suggest a way to possibly rearrange the Codebreaker UI without adding any new button interactions

[grim tusk]

The empty space is used while decrypting

[errant cradle]

At least thats what I'm getting from what you've said here

[calm crag]

yeah used up is pretty much it

[errant cradle]

Yeah but I think they just don't like how it just sits there empty while you aren;t decrypting anything

[calm crag]

to summon the boss everything needs to be decrypted already

[grim tusk]

Which should be stated in the suggestion

[calm crag]

so it just kinda sits there

yeah im realizing my suggestion could've been phrased a lot better

"I think that the button could easily go in the blank space in the UI where the decrypted text normally shows up since the player has to have decrypted everything anyway." i think that explains it pretty well?

[grim tusk]

Yea that works

[calm crag]

i just think that it looks a bit like an afterthought when it has no border or anything

[calm crag]

and i understand this, but i think its more the item silhouette that implies that an item should go there

not the border itself

[worldly sparrow]

the item silohuette only really exists for 1 of the borders

[calm crag]

i mean i think that the different color implies that its a slot for something

or the border could show up after the cooling cell is inserted maybe

[worldly sparrow]

i think that'd just create more confusion

[calm crag]

would it?

[worldly sparrow]

maybe

[calm crag]

i don't think it'd be any different from the current one

if instead of a satellite dish appeared, a satellite dish with a border appeared

[worldly sparrow]

i don't really get why the satellite dish needs a border

[calm crag]

just feels a little out of place is all

[worldly sparrow]

my biggest gripe with the ui is that the dish just isn't far up enough

the summon text is almost touching the border of the ui

[calm crag]

that could be another thing yeah

excuse the MS paint

im thinking something like this now

[sand marlin]

Satellite looks better without a border

[calm crag]

i disagree but

idk at this point

[sand marlin]

@void sky agreed, but also you need to put those kinds of oversights/inconsistencies over in the bug forum not on suggs

[void sky]

oof, that one's on me! i didn't know if it was an oversight or an intended feature, so I decided to post this as a suggestion instead

i'll move it to bug reports if the suggestion gets denied during reviewing

[sand marlin]

Or you can just ask a mod that frequents here, @drowsy plank what do you think

[void sky]

ah

sorry, i'm only on this discord for the changelogs, so i really don't know how things work here

[wide river]

That's fine, we get first-timers in suggestion channels quite frequently

As a quick rundown of the system:
When you post a suggestion in #suggestions-posting, it stays there for 24 hours so people are able to comment on and review it in this channel, #suggestions-discussion. After the 24 hours are up and the suggestion does not have the ❗ (meaning there is something wrong with the suggestion) or 🗜️ (meaning the suggestion has improper formatting or too large of an attachment) reactions applied to it, the suggestion is transferred to #suggestions-voting, where it remains there for a short period of around 2 weeks to be voted on.
When in voting, anyone can vote on a suggestion, not just developers. After the voting period ends, the top 20% of suggestions in a group (groups are designated by when the suggestion entered voting) are transferred to the developers to be voted on one last time. This is where the developers can hand out the "accepted" or "denied" verdicts, basically a yes/no system.

[grim tusk]

I think this fits more in here; idk why probably some gut feeling

Although i think this was also an accepted suggestion in the past

[sand marlin]

Similar cal items lacking vanilla features go to suggs?

[wide river]

Looks it #suggestions-voting message
(And, one made by you as well #suggestions-voting message )

[golden sonnet]

Old Shade jumpscare

[drowsy plank]

wild

idk honestly considering it already passed twice i really feel like this should be in bug reports because it just

SHOULD be fixed by now

idk @grim tusk like u get why i dont want a third version of this to pass when it's already passed twice and nothing has been done right; this is an inconsistency and one that the dev team knows about. im not sure what a third suggestion is really going to accomplish

[distant gyro]

it is however a bug report

because we have a light hit wire code in both candles already

it also works

[golden sonnet]

Huh?

[fervent orbit]

it was made, but never actually put into the mod

[golden sonnet]

Oh

[fervent orbit]

someone forgor

[golden sonnet]

I thought they were saying it was in the mod and the poster was just wrong

[grim tusk]

Oh, then its indeed a bug

[distant gyro]

huh???

it's in the public mirror

[fervent orbit]

then why is there a sug about it

[distant gyro]

idk that's no longer my problem

[fervent orbit]

wait maybe all they did was check the wiki

nah

nothing on the wiki states about wires

so they just didnt even check before making the sugg

[sand marlin]

I do remember the candles being janky with wires but it was on mp so it was prob mp jank

[void sky]

I see

should i move to bug reports then?

[sand marlin]

Are you currently having the issue in game on latest version?

As in, does it work with wires right now?

[void sky]

it doesn't

i just checked

[sand marlin]

Yeah then move to bug reports

[void sky]

i don't know if it changes anything, but i am on multiplayer

though i am pretty sure that my friend (who's hosting the world) has the lastest version

[sand marlin]

Yeah okay I was right, it's a multiplayer thing then

[void sky]

i'm so blind, how did i not notice that lol

i deleted the suggestion (since it would get removed anyway) and created a bug report

thank you for help everyone!

and sorry for causing problems hah

[finite epoch]

#suggestions-posting message i think this would be a good idea since the item is rather underwhelming compared to wings

[golden sonnet]

idk, it still doesn't adress the main issue tbh

[golden sonnet]

.

[small timber]

This might sound stupid but what if instead of a wing component, the "fifth" jump of moab (which is when you usually fly) is switched to a very weak, non directional and long duration upward boosting balloon jump

So basically you have a "flying" as a fifth jump of you dont cancel it, while preserving wingless moab mobility

Though tbh personally I think the current wingless balloon jump is kind of stupid due to movementspeed buff and wish it will be adjusted

[buoyant idol]

Suggest that

[willow widget]

add fart in a balloon to moab

[novel belfry]

oyeah right, there's still two more jumping balloons

theres' the sharkron balloon and the fart balloon

[willow widget]

true

[novel belfry]

there's also the honey balloon but that one doesnt HAVE a jump to begin with

[willow widget]

all the different balloon combos

[sleek turret]

Bundle of all Balloons

(and a horseshoe variant)

[crude geode]

Up House, the accessory

[sleek turret]

avalon adds one that has 6 extra jumps

[sleek turret]

True...

[novel belfry]

now that would truly befit a name like the Mother Of All Balloons

[olive saddle]

i could totally do this

[high nest]

intermediate step between bundle of balloons and MOAB thats a Bigger Bundle Of Baloons with honey balloon, fart balloon, and pink horseshoe balloon

[north oracle]

So
I'd like to think this is somewhat intentional, to make it slightly harder to instantly rush the abyss with infinite breathing. However, assuming it's not been intentionally planned that way, it's an annoying oversight that gets in the way of using amidias's blessing properly.

[serene vapor]

It feels like there aren’t enough methods to counteract sulphurous poisoning

Besides sulphurous potions and sulphurous armor

I can’t think of any

[proper granite]

honestly, yeah

i hate having to go back after running to the sulphurous sea because i forgot to bring a bottled water and an empty bottle to make the sulphurskin potion

its an really minor earlygame roadblock that probably shouldnt affect you if youre trying to head to the abyss post-skeletron

[crude geode]

The teleporter and effigy of decay in my back pocket

Like effigy of decay is something people heavily overlook, as well as just. setting up teleporters.

[serene vapor]

Effigy of decay isn’t something you can equip, and twleporters can be cumbersome to use

[crude geode]

Cumbersome to use???

Setup yes

[proper granite]

more just expensive to set up the moment after you kill skeletron

[serene vapor]

Levers get destroyed in water, right?

So do pressure plates?

[proper granite]

dont think so

cause i use levers and switches with water pumps and they never break, and there are underwater pressure plates in the caves

[median scaffold]

They don't

Surprisingly

[serene vapor]

I thought they did

[median scaffold]

I set up some teleporters with levers in one of my worlds

Could be some kind of the mod, but Idk

[crude geode]

Pretty sure they don’t break

[proper granite]

either way im not sure if having to find, then pick up and put down the effigy of decay wherever you go or set up teleporters should be something you have to do just to maintain your buff to get to the abyss

[crude geode]

It’s really a one time thing

[proper granite]

iirc the poisoning is impacted by your defense, i think? the damage is less when you get more defense

[proper granite]

so is visiting the abyss post skeletron

afterwards im pretty sure you have enough defense that it doesnt matter anymore

[crude geode]

Post Skeletron yes, but you visit the abyss three times in a playthrough, and a teleporter is useful all 3 times

[proper granite]

can someone confirm that the poisoning is only a threat when your defense is low the first time you visit the abyss, i really cant remember

lemme boot the game up

[crude geode]

Defense does not affect sulphur poisoning according to wiki

[proper granite]

wonder if its something related to DR

[proper granite]

cause i vividly remember tanking straight through sulfur poisoning

[proper granite]

we're talking about the bar that fills up and does a certain amount of damage, not the debuff

im not sure if thats called the same thing

[crude geode]

It is not, it’s barely defined on the wiki

The fact it can be reduced by defense is so wack

[proper granite]

i can confirm its affected by defense

[crude geode]

That’s so weird

That something like that can be reduced by defense

[proper granite]

and even weirder, it's inconsistent because if you wait until plantera to get life fruits you take about 33% less damage from it when going to the abyss after calclone

so I might have never had any problems completely tanking through the sulpur damage but others with more health and less defense-oriented builds might

[worn coyote]

what's the star requirement for the sugg to be sent?

[serene vapor]

100 I believe

But a lot of people tend to check #suggestions-voting so it’s not as hard as it sounds

[ripe owl]

There is no specific requirements. #suggestions-posting, one of the pinned messages explains it

[olive saddle]

Top 20% i beliebe

[sand marlin]

At jfl...

[drowsy plank]

@quiet kettle im just gonna let u know rn that even if this passes it's not going to happen for a very long time until summoner actually gets balanced

[quiet kettle]

That's fine by me

[drowsy plank]

also im pretty sure the devs like
already know this too lol

i dont think this is the first time something like this has passed

[wide river]

From what I remember of sentry armor-related discussions in the past, the developers are incredibly unlikely to add sentry slots to existing post-Moon Lord armors (for balance-related reasons, see #suggestions-discussion message )
In terms of just sentry stuff, it'd be likely a better idea balance-wise to have a dedicated post-Moon Lord sentry set, compared to adding sentry slots to existing armors

This isn't to discourage the suggestion's sentiment, just something to keep in mind

[median scaffold]

Just rework Fearmonger to be a set for sentries

(Sorry for the ping)

[wide river]

(It's fine)

Fearmonger acting as a sentry-focused armor set is an intriguing idea, I must say
I think personally that'd be a rework idea I support

[misty lichen]

yeah with the 0 on tier sentries and the singular extremely broken pretier sentry

[median scaffold]

I think it'll work as an addition to the sentry-based sets
It is still tanky (Valhalla, Squire, pretty much every sentry-based sets are tankier than their summoner counterparts) and also kinda works out in the end?

It is my silly goofy idea, nothing to really support it

[median scaffold]

Sentries are... in a weard state, as summoner in a whole

Uh... yeah
Why does additional DR for moons exists in the first place?

(It was most likely even more pointless before Fearmonger became pre-yharon)

[fervent orbit]

hey isnt fearmonger don- WHAT THE FUCK IT ISNT?!

[wide river]

I assume the effect is from the time where you'd have to do these events quite a lot because uhhh
Recipe bloat and whatnot

So it was present then to make the repeat farming easier, which now you'd only reasonably do these events once more after obtaining Fearmonger

[median scaffold]

Auric Bars old crafting recipe...

[misty lichen]

miracle matter current recipe

[median scaffold]

It's fine, because it's not really necessary

It isn't even required for Draedon's Forge

[wide river]

Ye, the recipe's a mess but you're only making like 1-2 of it in any given playthrough (unless you're in multiplayer)

Doesn't change the fact it's the combination material to end all combination materials

[small timber]

rather than removed I will argue it should actually works outside of frost/pumpkin moon (not in its current form of course)

it is supposed to be the "tank" variant of summoner hybrid armor, so you are supposed to gain a lot of defensive benefit
yet instead 90% of the armor set is literally just it gives a shit ton (way too much) of life regen for some reason which stacks way too well with like COTBG because turns out life regen is busted

and just overlap bloodflare armor identity

[median scaffold]

[wide river]

It already has defensive benefits though
Life regen (as you mentioned), greater defense than every on-tier armor, some normal damage reduction (which other on-tier sets don't have), and a bunch of debuff immunities

Though,
I can see the argument for making the DR boost nerfed a little in exchange for removing the Seasonal Moon requirement

[small timber]

this might sound like a really strange argument, but personally I treat "regen" and "defense" as 2 different things

defense/DR is to survive heavy hit and nullify small hits
regen is more room for mistake and to certain degree it is "a X amount of shield every X seconds"

closest comparison I think is say Charm of Myth vs Ankh Shield, and for the most part regen is a LOT stronger than defense than people really realise/utilize

which is why I dislike items that give way too much regen, for example fearmonger armor, and want it to be more defensive (defense) oriented instead

and there are more ways you can make defense more interesting; iframe, shield, dr or even COTBG like effect

while regen for the most part is just, well, you heal

[wide river]

That is a fair argument

[median scaffold]

I'm just looking at this and:
"Wow, I want new sentry sets"
I'm a weird one here...

[small timber]

and also another big difference (assuming it works correctly):

with high defense, and defense damage , you will die eventually if you take hits continuously over a long time (assuming you only have ok regen)
with high regen, you might get to a point of actually not able to die (assuming you have ok defense of course)

[wide river]

I do remember a discussion about Fearmonger's regen effect here a while ago
I remember a dev (I think it was Shade?) saying the on-hit effect (aka the regen) could get removed

[fervent orbit]

by your definition, shouldnt iframes not count as defense

they allow for more room for mistake

[median scaffold]

It all comes down to "I'm more likely to live out the attack"

[small timber]

Didnt explained it super clearly

More like:
Defense = damage negation
Regen = damage recovery

Iframe negate damage by allowing you to avoid the damage entirely if you get hit during the iframe; you can treat it as regen if you want of course: if you take a 300 damage hit during iframe it is the equivalent of healing 300HP in 0.1 sec

[urban berry]

Call me stupid, Rogue shouldn't be the flimsiest in pre-boss

[fervent orbit]

uhm

what?

snow ruffian has 9 defense

this is just wrong

[crude geode]

It also has the glide iirc

Mobility being the best defense

[cold cosmos]

Yeah this is just not true at all

[median scaffold]

Summoner with 3:

[north oracle]

moving fossil to rogue would leave ranger as the flimsiest aside from summoner, which isn't really better.
rogue's currently second weakest because jungle is unbalanced, and melee and ranger should have similar to better defence

i don't see a good reason fossil should be moved at this point, and rogue just not having defence isn't enough reasoning when that lack of defence isn't unbalanced

it would also confuse people who are used to vanilla, as fossil's the preboss set there

[cold cosmos]

Also rogue's lower defense is justified by the utterly absurd damage it does

At least preboss

Unless I'm misrembering

[north oracle]

@urban berry

especially as rogue gets sulphurous after EoC, while ranger has to wait to aerospec/shadow for an upgrade

[drowsy plank]

guh

@still linden please read our rules

specific item suggestions are not allowed

[still linden]

Oh, sorry about that I didn't realize

[drowsy plank]

just read the rules next time, they're the doc at the top of the channel and also pinned here

[still linden]

Alright, thanks!

[novel belfry]

having two ranged DESERT sets is weird

if like, fossil remained post-eow/boc it might be feasible

but no, we have two desert sets

and of course the calamity one is the cooler one so uh

at least necro armor has a cool new set bonus

[misty lichen]

i love it when the suggestion is just incorrect

[tardy geyser]

Yeah my thoughts exactly. Tier shift desert prowler to like post eye maybe?

[novel belfry]

SO MUCH RED

[wide river]

And yet absolutely none of it detected the actual typo

[novel belfry]

what is the typo again, i dont want to perform a "Molten Stone" mistake again

[novel belfry]

thanks

[novel belfry]

eh, i'll just post it here and now for criticism

[north oracle]

you use SoC for
crab
2 evils
bee
deer
skele

you use counter scarf for
SG
WoF
QS
possibly cryo
possibly AS
any one of mechs

It's a pretty similar number tbh, and the progression does make some sense. You gain counter scarf as an alternative shortly before WoF, where having a bonk dash isn't very helpful, as opposed to evils, bee, etc. where the bonk can be quite good.

I don't see much actual reason to move it other than because it used to be earlier, it still has a good bit of time to be used (along with it's upgrade which barely changes anything)

[novel belfry]

i mean

there's also evasion scarf

i just wish there was more dash options for pre-skeletron that wasnt just

the shield of cthulhu

[drowsy plank]

if only shield of cthulhu was actually good

[unkempt lance]

Base dash exist, I guess. Still, it's only 2 choices for what dash to use.

[sleek turret]

tbh optimally base dash is pretty good because the thing with dashes is that for dodging you'd use them for instant acceleration when doing the dash itself

which allows stuff like just turning around instantly

SoC also has the particularity of doing the bonk in which is a double edged sword

[small timber]

not sure if someone mentioned this, counter scarf is intentionally moved to post-skeletron

it used to be post-EOC

it is moved there exactly because counter scarf is absurdly strong

[novel belfry]

can you specify why its so absurdly strong? i'd like to know

[small timber]

it is viable on scal

as in, literally (you can upgrade to evasion scarf of course)

it is a viable item from post-skeletron all the way to scal if you dont mind the short dash length

it is just asgard's valor is better due to many contact damage bosses after it is available

[golden sonnet]

^ For projectile based bosses, dodging a projectile every 30 seconds is nuts

[small timber]

yeah, even dodging a contact damage every 30 seconds is nuts

[golden sonnet]

the universal dodge cooldown is 3X longer for context

[small timber]

it is just asgard's valor/ornate shield dodge contact damage every 2 seconds

[crude geode]

^

especially when so many late game bosses are based around contact damage

[misty lichen]

evasion scarf is such a pointless item lol

[sand marlin]

It's good for one boss just not in rev https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxcjhgf9MeaR9bR8Cx1zoYIfwOAjQ0NH3H?si=gWd5mVIdDQk--hqB

[drowsy plank]

lo

[novel belfry]

unless you happen to be doing a true melee playthrough

[frail fox]

We love donors for all they do

[small timber]

evasion scarf is the counter scarf if you want to use it over ornate shield for some reason

[misty lichen]

oh my god it probably was made when the cryo lore dash was a thing too

[novel belfry]

i mean, it can be obtained before ornate shield

[small timber]

you can use evasion scarf for 1 boss

[novel belfry]

so you still have a small window of time before you ignore every other dash item in favor of rams

[small timber]

and then if you actually beaten cryogen, then you beat 1 more mech you get ornate

[novel belfry]

imo since i despise the meta nature of rams im personally thinking of having the elysian shield just lose the majority of its defensive stats in favor of just being a dash-focused accessory exclusively

elysian gauntlet

but thats just my idea

thats all

[sand marlin]

It's only defense

[misty lichen]

i don’t think it should have the knockback immunity but too many people are just used to having effortless knockback immunity that it would make so many people cry

[sand marlin]

The debuff immunities and kb res are just staples slapped onto it because they are just relevant all across the game and something as common as it needs to have them

[novel belfry]

i could see it keeping one of those two stats

[small timber]

asgard's valor can be just upgraded ornate shield

the entire ankh shield component can be removed, and it will still be amazing

losing kb immune and so on, so you dont save 1 slot compare to MNG

[misty lichen]

you do not need knockback immunity at all

it’s such a situational benefit yet now everybody’s just used to having it for free

[sand marlin]

It's not situational

Knockback is obnoxious

The only reason it works pre hardmode is because most things can't chain hit you

[small timber]

the most common cause of death is being knockbacked into another attack and get chain hit

yeah

[sand marlin]

And you get it before the things that do (Slime God/WoF)

There is no good thing about knockback I'm gonna be real

[small timber]

so just by having kb immune, you prevented a lot of situation that might had heavily damaged you otherwise

[sand marlin]

It's done horribly and just feels bad

[misty lichen]

i just never have any issues with knockback idk

even if i’m getting beat up unless it’s a boss that can easily corner me like plantera or analev i don’t get chain hit

[sand marlin]

It can interrupt every single one of your mobility options to get out of said chain hits as well

Hooking, mount, dash

[misty lichen]

just dash? it only messes up soc

[novel belfry]

the only tragic thing about kb immunity being universal across every set, is that atlas's high kb is worthless

[sand marlin]

?

[misty lichen]

it’s even better when you consider master ninja gear long dash

[small timber]

if you are skilled enough at the game yes it is not a problem, for majority of the player kb immunity is mandatory if they are already struggling

[sand marlin]

It goes on cooldown before you can dash again if it gets interrupted

It's not an instant get out of jail card

[small timber]

if a player is struggling with the game with kb immune, they will simply die much more without

[sand marlin]

Gets really annoying especially with that

Rework knockback and then you can consider removing it from more staples

Otherwise there is no good thing about knockback and kb res should stay relevant all across

[misty lichen]

i guess if you dash directly into the boss this happens but that’s all i can really give you

[small timber]

rework kb into a stun bar / threshold based or something

[sand marlin]

Consider big hitbox bosses that will knock you back into them if you're tryna dash out

So no

You are not dashing into the boss

You are dashing out of it and it interrupts you

[novel belfry]

the disparity is hilarious, you'll get weapons like marksman bow that was clearly designed by someone in the old calamity era, while you'll also get Death's Ascension

[sand marlin]

Slime God

[misty lichen]

there can also just be a line of ankh shield upgrades that give universally high defense and debuff immunities but no other random defensive buffs

[sand marlin]

Queen Slime as well if it happens to stomp you

[misty lichen]

counter scarf is long enough for me to just get out

for qs

slime gods yeah ur right lol i can’t even argue that

[sand marlin]

Well that is a whole another line. Yes it would work and that would be better but rn there is no such line so it would feel worse if it was only just ankh shield that had kb res when you get to post moon lord and stuff

I do agree to that

You know what we wouldn't actually need kb res on ornate line if frozen shield's relevance was thrown out of the window by absorber being really broken and therefore always being better post cultist and so forth

Frozen Shield was meta for defensive accs up to halfway into post ml until the broken shit came along

[misty lichen]

well that’s another balance issue

[sand marlin]

Yeah, I'm definitely a fan of absorber but I can't really ignore how strong it is rn

And I do miss frozen shield meta

[small timber]

that is what I suggested before yes

but guess how many votes the suggestion got because it is a major nerf to an item 90% of player used

[misty lichen]

it’s ok it can have 50% dr as compensation

[novel belfry]

12 def 12% movement speed super thorns effect that afflicts super armor crunch and also makes hp pots create a super powerful lingering aura

[sand marlin]

5% ADR

[misty lichen]

if it was armor crunch itd be something

but they made fucking armor crunch X

[novel belfry]

No wonder why they rejected my sugg to add an upgrade to the Absorber, on hindsight it really doesn’t need a upgrade

[misty lichen]

give it the plague hive treatment

[sand marlin]

I think the issue is that a thorns effect should not have offensive bonuses

But instead more defensive

[misty lichen]

the upgrade is just the same thing but worse

[novel belfry]

Wait, it is?

Plague hive is worse than alchemical flask?

[misty lichen]

yeah has there been a plague hive suggestion yet

[olive saddle]

the donor chooses. also man marksman bow slaps i will not tolerate marksman bow disrespect around here even if its old cal!!!

marksman bow my beloved!!!

[misty lichen]

marksman bow is actual peak donor

sprite so massive you can’t make out what it’s supposed to be in the inventory
recipe that is literally just a lot of a single vanilla material, it WILL be appearing constantly on your screen while crafting other items
just a generic bow that converts wooden to jester for some reason (preboss arrow at post plantera)

[crude geode]

Disagree

[quiet kettle]

Anyone else think there should be references to the addon mods

[crude geode]

The peak donor item is Prismatic Breaker

[ripe owl]

Disagree

[crude geode]

Marksman Bow isn’t even old cal, that shit was introduced in Rust and Dust

[ripe owl]

You're not being serious are you?

What the fuck

[crude geode]

[ripe owl]

I refuse to believe

[quiet kettle]

Why

[ripe owl]

Why do we need them?

Like let's be real

[quiet kettle]

It would be nice to have references to addons

Commemorate people for their efforts, you know?

[crude geode]

I’m pretty sure there’s also already references to other mods, it’s just not literally saying “go play this mod”

[quiet kettle]

No I meant like pets or paintings or something

Something that's subtle, yet stands out

[misty lichen]

do not add fanny

[sand marlin]

🔥

Fanny already exists

[quiet kettle]

I was thinking more like goozma or wrath of the gods

[sand marlin]

Literally any fire in the game

They are just shy is all

In any case cal would be better off not continuously bloating the game with more items that aren't always necessary

And the ones that are already in... to be better hopefully. Looking at donor items

[median scaffold]

Are you using dash accessories pre-plantera?

[drowsy plank]

everyone having kb res and anhk immunities is just a bandaid on the fact that knockback and a large chunk of vanilla debuffs are just dogshit mechanics, which is like putting a blanket over a flesh wound and pretending it's not there instead of treating it. not that id know how considering our solution was to effectively just remove them from the game so i have like zero experience with them

[sand marlin]

The most basic thing you can do with knockback is to make it knock you away from the source, not knock you backwards depending on where you're facing

Current knockback just makes you get knocked back into the source as you are trying to get away from it

[drowsy plank]

fucked up

[drowsy plank]

anyway marksman bow needs to die so badly

[frail mantle]

me when beating probably the boss where knockback is the most dangerous gives you knockback immunity

[drowsy plank]

i love how the thing shoots jesters but cal fucking hates jesters so it has to make a bunch of iframe changes to the jesters to even pretend this weapon was a good idea just-

it's so many baffling decisions wrapped into one

[golden sonnet]

I'm going to be honest, I've been playing Calamity for like 7+ years, and I completely purged this thing from my memory. I literally completely forgot this thing even existed

[drowsy plank]

donor items in general just display why people should not be allowed to design for a game they do not understand and why the item suggestion donor tier needed to die so badly

[golden sonnet]

I probably would've assumed fandom if marksman bow was brought up in another channel tbh

[drowsy plank]

i remember marksman bow
i remember it every day

[golden sonnet]

I'm sorry for the pain you must go through

[random talon]

I should do a run where I can only use donor weapons

and other dedicated content

[golden sonnet]

Veering wind turbo

[hybrid cedar]

[glass arch]

theres only a couple well designed donor items imo

tyrannys end, for one

plus some more but i have a bad memory and cant remember them all

[neat linden]

final dawn is quite fire

though it might be a balance nightmare iirc

[spark ravine]

Sorry if this isn't an appropriate question, but where does one find the contact info stuff for donors if you want to make a suggestion about a dedicated item?

[olive saddle]

Scorched earth is fun

Also gem tech armor my beloved

[royal tapir]

Scorched Earth is a great example of how good sound design can really complete a weapon

[royal tapir]

Anyway @hollow shell you have the funny doc right

[glass arch]

pun intended or no

[drowsy plank]

what 🥹

@clear grove if this a balance suggestion it should be in #1178515062030348308 but also scorpio literally uses the same kind of rockets as snowman im pretty sure which makes this even funnier

[clear grove]

ah my bad im new ill repost

[novel belfry]

i called it "old cal" because it felt like an old cal weapon

[sleek turret]

50 dollars is 50 dollars though

[drowsy plank]

[random talon]

50,000$
(my mind has been destroyed)

help

[sleek turret]

2 pesos

[wide river]

6 Fargo dollars

[sleek turret]

100 Steam Points

[random talon]

https://tenor.com/view/kromer-deltarune-bigshot-spamton-spamton-g-spamton-gif-23223761

clown to clown conversation

[wide river]

True!

[random talon]

we spent our braincells buying SCal plushies

a worthwhile investment

[sleek turret]

I would make a sugg right now but it's mostly a resolution issue with some items with too much text or Draedon Logs having small text size but I would not like to

[random talon]

I wanna make pro-fishing propaganda and spread it across the Calamity community

[novel belfry]

it must be really weird for a first timer player of calamity suddenly seeing a chat pop-up asking you to buy calamitas plushies

[sleek turret]

It would also need an idea of the actual demographic in terms of resolution sizes (stuff like what monitor you use, what is your max resolution, what resolution you use for gaming, etc; basically do a poll)

[sleek turret]

👁‍🗨 LIMITED TIME! Sign up for the Calamity Rotting Campaign! calamitymod.com/therotconsumes 👁‍🗨

It's kinda funny because some other mods tend to do that when loading the world

Magic Storage for example

[novel belfry]

for context this is part of an upcoming wotg update that'll rework noxus, apparently there's going to be a really cool build up to the fight

[sleek turret]

Sure

[sleek turret]

Basically too much effort

It could pass as more of a resolution thing rather than an accessibility thing tbh

[grim tusk]

It is and it will eventually be reworked once we remake the stealth system first… and I gain more experience with flashy effects as well as modifying UseStyle on which im learning with my current project

[grim tusk]

Hmm I could look into it

Would also help me to gain more insight as I tried working with the Tester Mod’s UI and damn is UI confusing

Doesnt help that that mod’s UI is old

[grim tusk]

At least its not a pale whale

[drowsy plank]

is

is a star cannon a gun??

is this an inconsistency or truly just a suggestion

i cannot tell

@faint plover im pretty sure the scope works on cal guns that shoot bullets

does it actually work on star cannon in vanilla??

[sand marlin]

Stellar Cannon does not need ammo

It just fires a flare

[golden sonnet]

No, it does not

Only bullets solutions and gel using weapons

Oh, and apparently candy corn and stakes too, which is news to me, didn't know about those 2

[stable kiln]

yeah this is not true lol

[stable kiln]

that is the true

[fervent orbit]

wait stake launcher gets scope too?

i thought bows dont get scope access

[golden sonnet]

Apparently, I knew flamethrowers and clemtaminators did despite most people being unaware of that, but I had no idea stake launcher and candy corn rifle got it too

[fervent orbit]

candy corn rifle is understandable

it counts as a gun iirc

just like how stake launcher counts as a bow

[golden sonnet]

Stake launcher is my favorite gun, I love rifle scope consistency

[sand marlin]

Stake Launcher...

[frail fox]

Thought this suggestion was talking about star cannon ex for a moment and that they were playing on 1.5 lol

[faint plover]

Oh my bad I honestly haven’t checked if it works on star cannon, because I got the scope post golem also💀 but if it doesn’t work on star cannon I see no point in it working on Astral cannon

[grave zinc]

@muted cradle - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Change the hallowed bars recipe ore requirement along with making the veins slightly larger]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@olive saddle - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Change the fragments to only craft their class specific weapons]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[hollow shell]

@faint plover Star Cannon is not a "gun". Guns in Terraria must shoot bullets (ammo based on Musket Balls or Empty Bullets).
Weapons that use special ammo or no ammo are therefore not considered guns, and thus don't work with scopes.

(Scopes have a few additional inclusions actually. But, they don't extend to weapons that fire Fallen Stars)

You should edit your suggestion to acknowledge this information.

[hollow shell]

Ask me or any of the other moderators. We have the contact info of every donor.
Developers would know, too.

[spark ravine]

K cool. Just ask here, or through DM's?

[hollow shell]

Anything's fine, just let us know what item you want changed or what user you wanna contact and we'll give you their Discord ID (most of them have spoken in this server before).

[spark ravine]

Aight. I want to make a suggestion to change the outdated 1.3 flail mechanics on the Yateveo Bloom. (Lilith Sainteclaire)

[hollow shell]

151574653251485696 @spark flax

and here's a message sent by her
#suggestions-discussion message

[spark ravine]

thanks

[hollow shell]

👍

she may even see that ping and just respond here, iunno if anyone's contacted her for her item before

[spark flax]

hi

[fervent orbit]

🤯

[spark flax]

i havent played clamity for a while b/c i played it once when the 1.4 update dropped and then have been playing other viddy games since but feel free to go for it re. the suggestion, i think updating to 1.4 flail mechanics would probably be welcomed

[spark ravine]

Update the Yateveo Bloom's flail attack
The Yateveo Bloom is a pre-hardmode melee weapon that acts as a flail with its left-click and a spear with its right-click. Thing is, the flail still has pre-1.4 flail behaviour, which is awkward and annoying to try and use. It is also inconsistent with all vanilla flails that no longer behave like this. Updating the weapon to use the spin-and-release mechanic introduced in 1.4 would make the weapon both more fun to use and be more consistent with other flails of its type.
I have permission from the donor to make this suggestion.

This good?

[spark flax]

fire away 👍

[golden sonnet]

a space between the header and body text would look nice, but besides that no real complaints

[spark ravine]

I knew something was off. Welp, gotta wait out the slowmode

[hollow shell]

(Not needed at all cuz the bot will separate it all the same)

[hollow shell]

Perfect

[restive wharf]

Secret seed for the abyss

That makes the abyss much much wider

If you type "subnautica" in for a seed

Actually

Make the whole world abyss and sulphur sea

And in the seed the primordial Wyrm has his original sprite

[tiny minnow]

Can Calamity add secret seeds?

[dense ravine]

secret seeds are too much work for the dev team

its better for them to spend their time adding new content to the base game then adding secret seeds

plus things like gfb have been changed in cal so play that

[ripe owl]

Iirc the new secret seeds will not have support

[dense ravine]

makes sense

[olive saddle]

this sounds good on paper but my god i wouldnt be able to get shit done

trasher from hell, trasher from hell, gnasher from hell, gnasher from hell, trasher from hell, trasher from hell, trasher from hell, trasher from hell, trasher from hell phasing through my wall. aquatic scourge from hell???

[royal tapir]

And the only reason GFB got changes to begin with is because the devs were bored during 1.4.4 port

[olive saddle]

that is unironically so fucking based
"yea lets just fuck up this seed we're bored lmao"

[golden sonnet]

Never leave yuh unsupervised

[ripe owl]

The dude literally made the generation steps bar for Calamity structures

[royal tapir]

Probably true

[grim tusk]

I got late to the fuck up gfb party but have been having fun monkeypawing its bugfixes to add something

Altho seems like gfb bugs have stopped showing up

[novel belfry]

and it was super fucking cool

and infuriating

it was my first experience with gfb

and wow

[fervent orbit]

"why is armoured digger spawning pre ml. pls fix this bug"
the monkey's paw curls. all profaned enemies spawn pre ml

[grim tusk]

Thats a bit too much

[fervent orbit]

weak smh

[grim tusk]

I can be sadistic but I have no reason (yet) to be that sadistic

I already caused mayhem with the Wulfrum bots

[cold cosmos]

You misspelled "intentional features"

[serene vapor]

#suggestions-posting message

Can we do the same thing for ball of fugu

[random talon]

I wanna make a suggestion to make the Sulfurous Sea and Draedon's Underworld Lab indestructible by Fargo's Instabridges

The lab for obvious reasons

[crude geode]

Is that on Cal or Fargo?

[random talon]

idk, Fargo has a modcall list for how to make certain tiles from your mod indestructible by the bridges

I guess Fargo's could do it if they had the internal names for the necessary tiles

I wanted the sea included too bc the bridges can cut the border in Remix/GFB preventing the water from flowing down, causing huge delays in water physics.

god damnit, the bots

[serene tendon]

"it is inconsistent with all vanilla flails" Flairon, Chain Guilotines, etc

[spark ravine]

"all vanilla flails that no longer behave like this"

Some bad wording on my part, sorry. I was referring to all vanilla flails that used to have the old flail mechanics but don't anymore as of 1.4.4, which the Yateveo Bloom still has.

[grim tusk]

go ahead

[misty lichen]

yes it does not work like those items either

there are 2 flail types, thrown and launched

thrown flails in 1.3 would dangle near you while holding the button, 1.4 gave them real controls

launched flails are golem fist flairon chain knife etc, just a projectile that goes out then back in

yateveo acts like pre 1.4 thrown flails

[spark ravine]

Possibly 3, depends if you consider solar eruption as a flail (probably considered "other" on the vanilla wiki because its one of a kind with no other variants). Thrown, launched, whipped

[misty lichen]

calamity flails are almost always launched flails even when they look like thrown ones probably because the 1.3 thrown flails were genuinely awful to use offensively

ball o fugu, tumbleweed, urchin flail and probably many others were probably originally designed to look like regular thrown flails like their sprite implies, but had to be changed to launched because of how bad thrown flails were. it’s not a coincidence the only calamity thrown flail is some random donor item

[novel belfry]

i just realized that the bloodflare armor just doesnt have a wing

[wide river]

Indeed it doesn't

However, it doesn't particularly need one in my opinion
Elysian and Tarragon Wings are more than enough for Old Duke/The Devourer of Gods

[sleek turret]

Wings that consume your hp for wing time 😈

[wide river]

Honestly? Not a bad concept

Once Uelibloom/Tarragon kicks the bucket and Ravager gets tiershifted, that could feasibly work as an alternative wing tied to reworked Ravager

[sand marlin]

Flairon gets a swing on 1.4.5 anyway

[novel belfry]

which is fucking fantastic

finally, theres going to be a later-game flail that's now a thrown flail (but STILL HAS AN OPTION TO BE LAUNCHED)

||so much editing wth||

[wide river]

@old granite Calamity will be adding whips eventually, first they have to actually balance the class before that though

[crude geode]

Summoner and Rogue will never be balanced it’s a myth

[novel belfry]

SCP-12028
Class: Euclid
Description: SCP-12028 is a psychological anomaly affecting anyone who attempts to "balance Terraria whips with the Calamity Mod," which will be hereforth referred to as SCP-12028-A. When one attempts to perform SCP-12028-A, they will be struck with a variety of emotions (SCP-12028) such as but not limited to:

• Anger
• Disappointment
• An inability to listen to a guy named Shyguymask, who will be hereforth refered to as SCP-12028-B. People who are afflicted with SCP-12028 will instead direct their emotions at SCP-12028-B. This effect does not apply to SCP-12028-B himself.

Such emotions will in one way or another prevent the person from completing SCP-12028-A.
Addendum: SCP-12028-B is not exempt from the other effects of SCP-12028-A.

[random talon]

lol listening to shyguymask would actually solve a lot of summoner problems

Maybe prehardmode whips should have less summon tag damage

the spinal tap has 9

[random talon]

https://tenor.com/view/hero-carefully-he-is-a-hero-fallen-care-gif-27593423

this creation is beautiful

[serene tendon]

I have no idea what SCP means but I agree

[serene tendon]

You: "We should listen to SGM"
Also you: "We should nerf whips"

[tardy geyser]

[sleek turret]

True actually

[buoyant idol]

Secure, Contain, Protect.

[grim tusk]

On a few things he’s right but on several others he isnt

He is also trying to balance summoner as if it were vanilla summoner (which is weak and inconsistent unless whipping)

Cal summoner unlike vanilla is a fucking beast

Accessories are a big fucking problem

Altho most of the issues with SGM is how he behaves with people; rather than his insight

[sleek turret]

Whips complement summons in vanilla which is OK because the thing with summoner is that it basically had to complemented with more damage coming from other sources

It's a different balancing issue basically

Cal summoner balance comes mostly from summons not relying on complementary weapons and other sources which is why there's a summoner damage penalty

To the point that even holding a summoner weapon in older versions of the mod gave you extra damage instead of holding a classless weapon (no bonus neither damage penalty)

[small timber]

Shyguymask have a good idea on how to balance summoner, but I think the idea he had was a bit boring and could be better

Closest comparison is like shyguymask's idea to balance whip is abit equivalent to cal removing melee speed from most sources (iirc he wanted whips tag damage basically reduced massively which will make them balance but is a bit of a boring approach)

Wait actually I need to recheck what did he said, I am not 100% sure he is the one who wanted whips just be nerfed massively or is it someone else

[sleek turret]

He goes by the lines of if Whips are overpowered, then so is everything else if we look to the Catalyst and Cal Whip DPS testing video

https://youtu.be/Gw22yZxMQU8?si=QVFUTifFnpL8AGcG I would recommend watching this video again if you haven't (or if you didn't watch the video)

[small timber]

Ok shyguymask's idea is like this to sum it up:

Keep flat tag damage in preHM (or part of HM depend on balancing)

Use multiplicative tag damage lateHM or post-ML

I must be thinking of someone else when saying "he just wanted every whip to reduce to nothing"

[crude geode]

cal removing melee speed is still one of the most boring approaches tbfh

[sleek turret]

Why was melee speed removed from stuff in the first place?

[small timber]

Oh right he also mentioned the decison to make reduce minion damage nerf on multiclass (in current state of cal summoner balancing) is baffling which I do agree yes

[sleek turret]

I don't remember

[crude geode]

balancing iirc

[small timber]

They gave all melee armor melee speed, removed it from basically most sources except gauntlet and like 2 accessory

Basically to make melee speed balanced by reducing options

[sleek turret]

Weird

[crude geode]

I thought they changed it to melee damage

instead of improving use time

[sleek turret]

I don't think they did honestly

Ale in Cal is like 10%+ melee damage and 5%- defense right?

Seems like the vanilla changes page isn't updated so I'll check

[small timber]

This video is good, but I think it failed to account something:

1. if I am not wrong, the intended balance (for cal) is literally for whips to be underpowered, whether he agrees with it or not, so it is "perfectly balanced" because it is "underpowered"

2. he forgot that multiclass nerf changed from 50%->25% was not a sensible change and is why multiclass is so strong to begin with (he is comparing something "balanced" to something overpowered, and said whips are underpowered in comparison instead of nerfing multiclass)

3. he mentioned lunic eye etc, in fact yes they are overpowered, the reason why? Because summoner weapons are literally balanced without them in its current state

If you add them into the mix of course they are overpowered

[sleek turret]

The third point I alredy explained it briefly above regarding Cal summoner and you just complemented it

Cal Summoner summons being alredy strong without whips provokes stuff that complements it also being strong whether is from the class itself (sentries, whips, other weapons) to classless items and extending to limitless other options coming from other classes

Which is why he also got the Polterghast 21 second kill

Note that he also goes and uses stuff that is also obtainable at that stage like candles and etc (in the Polterghast video)

[sleek turret]

Confirmed it and it's 10%+ melee damage and 5%- defense when the Typsy buff is applied

So I would conclude this by saying that instead of Whips being strong and other weapons being strong, the root problem are summons

[small timber]

And also very offensive setup (stardust armor on polter) and he said he use rage each fight

But my point is he is comparing the wrong thing

1. The intended balance is minion only

2. which is why whips are balanced to be underpowered, which is to make them not mandatory

3. lunic eye, multiclass etc are in fact not balanced with summoner, so of course they are overpowered

• multiclass is a multiclass nerf issue (which imo should be reverted)
• the other is lunic eye existing to literally cut dr in half for some reason which is inherently an overpowerwd concept as long as you dont have to waste dps on it (aka summoner)

4. so if you compare 2) and 3) of course whips is underpowered, it is meant to be

[sleek turret]

I mean Stardust Armor on Polter is an option

[small timber]

It is a massively offensive option compare to tarragon which is much more defensive

[sleek turret]

Same as mixing minions at certain fights he does

[small timber]

And if not mistaken tarragon is used for summoner balancing post provi

[sleek turret]

You need to consider the fact that summoner provides diverses options throught the game and does not only base itself around one specific setup going all minions of one kind

He does not go with only one summon weapon at Crabulon for instance, he goes with a combination that results into a MNL kill

[small timber]

But yeah minion mixing + candles and rage etc already make it not "a balanced test" to begin with, but that is not the point shyguymask is making anyway

He is making the point of "whips bad other things good", and want whips massively buffed

Which I explained above why buffing whips (at least according to cal's current approach) is not necessary

[sleek turret]

He approaches vanilla balance more than Cal balance

Where whips are a strong (and interesting) complement to vanilla summons

[sleek turret]

"a balanced test" in terms of Calamity balancing tests where the method applied is a well rounded build that consists of a more casual to the player build

Differently from Vanilla where the method is to directly compare the weapons with maximum damage opportunities while also not going directly on the min-max build area

Calamity itself offers more maximum damage opportunities by introducing more elements to the play via mechanics and other items such as Lunic Eye (which I agree this thing is overpowered, being able to halve the DR of most bosses).

To be honest, the issue with summoner balancing is the fact a minion-only balance causes issues like other things being overpowered and not acknowledging different points or view or approaches to the playstyle

Essentially, 'purism'

[glass arch]

as an scp nerd
this is a -J, not a regular one

[crude geode]

cope

[novel belfry]

sometimes some -J SCPs don't include that critical J

at least, not in their article, their titles will still be -J

i merely wanted to make light of a situation that's going to take a long long time

[novel belfry]

i feel like the intended balance isn't what shy wanted but whatever

[tardy geyser]

What the point of this discussion? If whips and classless weapons or summons should be nerfed?

[north oracle]

gotta love whip arguments spilling back out of the balance thread now that it's gone

[novel belfry]

someone talked about summoner and rogue taking forever to balance, i made a joke about that

and now... this

[small timber]

you could had saved yourself a lot of trouble by, you konw, reading the whole sentence

tldr, there are 2 points:

1. summoner can kill polterghast in 21 seconds

• this is because he used a somewhat minmaxed setup that is differnent from what is usually balanced, eg: minion mixing and stardust armor (and this point is done and done, the other arguments I made are for 2nd point)

2. whips are underpowered compare to other options and should be buffed (which is what shyguymask's video is about)
   tldr:

• whips are intended to be "underpowered" in current cal's whip balancing approach, so it being a small help and not a make killtime cut is intended
• multiclass is overpowered because the decision to make summoner multiclass nerf 50%->25% is not good to begin with, and this imo should be reverted
• items like lunic eye being overpowered is also a lunic eye problem mostly

tldr 2:

• cal minions are almost always only balanced with minion only (not even whips), which is why whips are balanced to be "underpowered" so it is only a small help
• this also means every other options that are massively better than whips are almost always "unbalanced", eg: multiclass and lunic eye
• you cant balance around an overpowered option instead of the intended power level option

eg: you cant just say because staff of necrsteocyes kills wof in like 20 seconds, that every other weapons are underpowered and should be buffed to match

[grim tusk]

Oh so he changed his mind on mult tag

[small timber]

I am not sure if that is his latest opinion tbh

[wide river]

Ah yes
Tl;dr's that take up almost the whole screen

[north oracle]

byeah
while shyguymask's tests in that video raise interesting points, cal's balancing philosophy is the opposite of what he wants (and the conclusion he draws). Instead of buffing whips to match multiclassing/classless, classless/multiclassing should be nerfed to match the balance whips

[small timber]

it is just I can find at some point he explicitly stated that he want early game to be flat and late game to be multiplicative, because this is the approach that will make the most sense for whips to feel powerful

tldr he want cal whips to be good

[novel belfry]

wait, there's ACTUAL stat-changes to whips?

[north oracle]

slightly more than somewhat minmaxed

[novel belfry]

i thought those were just ignored

[north oracle]

nah, looking at the cata whips
cal hasn't done anything yet

[small timber]

it is mostly this sentence but yes

[grim tusk]

Only firecracker atm (might be bugged)

[tardy geyser]

Cal changes the flat tag damage to a multiplier I think?

[north oracle]

oh, true

firecracker got changed and flat tag is multiplicative

[novel belfry]

last i checked the multiplicative got bugged or soemthin

[north oracle]

no, it works now

[novel belfry]

but that was a while ago

figured

[grim tusk]

The great summoner rebalance plan atm will focus on nerfing everything especially accessories which atm are the main reason why minions are so fucking dumb.
That way only minions is slightly under and with whips (or other support) is slightly above

[small timber]

imo it might have the opposite effect of making preHM incredibly hard to balance (by reducing minion slot)

[sleek turret]

It's his viewpoint and he provides proof of his viewpoint

Not to say that his viewpoint is superior

[north oracle]

his view is one of the conclusions you can draw from those tests

[small timber]

personally I prefer the opposite approrach:

1. give player a LOT of "free" minion slot (currently this free slot is 1, from base, not counting summoning potion which is like post-QB in terms of balancing or something)

as in, like 3 free slot, in some way, that is somehow intuitive for summoner player to easily get

2. then you limit options to obtain large amount of minion slots afterwards

[sleek turret]

1. You're almost correct on the fact that the setup was min-maxed. However, he also managed to achieve around 30 second killtimes by not min-maxing as you say in the other test video.
   2a.) Basically, you're explaining why whips work differently in Cal. It's what I said above regarding Vanilla vs Calamity summoner balance.
   2b.) I agree that multiclass damage nerf is pretty unbalanced as it enables the usage of other weapons to complement the summoner class incredibly.
   2c.) I alredy said I agreed on the fact that Lunic Eye halving the DR of bosses is overpowered.

2.2a) I alredy said this above.
2.2b) The same thing
2.3c) When did I say that every option has to balance around the most broken option.

And also what kind of trouble you're implying?

[small timber]

I was literally just summarizing that "killing polterghast in 21 seconds" and "whips is underpowered" was 2 different points for 2 different issues/scenarios, and make a tldr of it
of course the points will be repeated

[olive saddle]

Another whip suggestion

[small timber]

for this one I am assuming you are referring to the reduce minion slot approach

tldr is: if you reduce minion slot massively (especially in preHM), a pre-tier minion might suddenly better

eg:
40 damage 2 minion slot = 80 dps
you upgraded to have 3 minion slot, your targeted dps is a 100 dps for a new summoner waepon at this tier

33 damage 3 minion slot = 99 dps (close enough)
if you use a previous tier summon = 40 damage 3 minion slot = 120 dps

of course this is an extreme scenario, but unless you make every minion slot upgrade a significant power crept in terms of just purely base damage of the minion then this will happen a lot more, as compare to:

eg:
20 damage 4 minion slot (3 base +1 slots) = 80 dps
upgraded +2 slots (3 base) = 5 slots, 100 dps

20 damage 5 minion slot = 100 dps (old summon)
20 damage 5 minion slot = 100 dps (new summon that maybe have better AI or something)

of course again, extreme scenario that is just hypothetical, but generally at least you can more easily avoid power creep on a baseline level

[sleek turret]

So what I understand here is that

Let's say that X weapon has a target of 100 DPS with the 2 minion slots

And then Y weapon that comes in a tier after has a target of 150 with 3

100/2 is 50 which results that the X weapon reachs the target

Ok

This is confusing at this point

God that example is horrible because they both end in the same result

Scratch that

[sleek turret]

100/2
150/3 both equal 50

[small timber]

tldr yes, and 3 issues here:

1. you effectively dont have a weapon upgrade in terms of damage
2. it effecitvely requires a 50% power creep for your dps to be balanced, which means every single summoner weapon; aka summoner get 50% stronger after minion slot upgrade

and not all bosses are balanced like that, because other classes dont do 50% more dps from some point to the next and you cant balance bosses purely based on summoner
3) assuming 2), the power creep need to be lesser than 50%, which get backs to the above point (summoner weapon base damage after slot upgrade need to be weaker which leads to previous tier being better)