but as for the base idea for whips, I feel it is ok
not a perfect solution but it do help to solve the "summoner class is literally just run in the opposite direction and play with 1 hand"
#suggestions-discussion
small timber
north oracle
It’s just… in different ways
gaunt needle
i would say it's completely fine if most whips are just some generic more-damage-tag thing (maybe with some less generic damage-tags e.g. dark harvest basically having 10 additive tag damage but it's applied to nearby enemies)
bright crag
What I do agree with is that both tag types can be problematic, and I think that we won't really go far using just additive bonuses or just multiplicative bonuses
I also agree that tag effects could be more interesting and that we should have more non-whip active summoner weapons
gaunt needle
actually
north oracle
Cal needs to go well away from damage tags imo
It’s just far too much of a balance conundrum to have either powerful additive tags or powerful multiplicative tags
gaunt needle
what if whips remain how they are in vanilla (additive tags and such), and instead of reworking whips you just add unique tags to other weapon types?
small timber
imo just make tag multiplicative but have whips direct damage contribute more in early game because whips have shorter range
and higher tag multiplicative damage but whips itself contrinute less in direct damage since at that point whips are basically screen wide
because using both additive + multiplicative at different point of the game can cause a lot of confusion
(eg: where is my super strong auric tier end game additive damage whip)
cobalt heath
How I would do it is reworking how additive is calculated
so have bigger number but not affect base dmg
north oracle
By… doing what cal did and making it multiplicative!
Or by making it be the same thing except a little bit less powerful
gaunt needle
actually i have a (vanilla) question
small timber
additive tag damage do not have to affect base damage at all to be powerful
gaunt needle
does the whip tag increase base damage of the minion (so it gets boosted by damage% bonuses) or just the damage of a singular attack
small timber
all they need to do is to "add more flat damage per hit", whether it is base damage or not
because then it will immediately scale hit frequency
north oracle
Base damage of every attack
Not sure if it does it via base damage or otherwise
sand marlin
additive tag damage do not have to affect base damage at all to be powerful
They don't affect base damage anyway
That would be ridiculous
small timber
yeah, I wasn't 100% sure on it so it didn't answer, but should be like armor pen yes
gaunt needle
actually if it was base damage then stardust dragon would be broken
nevermind the question
small timber
if it is base damage then it will be broken on anything that have low base damage yeah, not just stardust dragon
sand marlin
A good word of advice
Do not fuck with base damage lightly, it gets real out of hand especially on rapidfire weapons
gaunt needle
armor penetration when the rapidfire weapon
sand marlin
armor penetration when the rapidfire weapon
AP makes rapidfire weapons stronger but yeah not on the level I'm talking about
There is a reason why %damage is 90% of the times additive within itself
sand marlin
Can't
small timber
iirc defense reduction like ichor works differently from armor penetration
but I have no idea how it actually works because the math looks inconsistent to me
especially since the last time I tested it is pre double AP value fix
sand marlin
On Desktop version Desktop, Console version Console, and Mobile version Mobile, the debuff lowers the afflicted player's defense by 15, or adds 15 armor penetration when calculating damage against afflicted enemies.
Recent versions opted to armor penetration
Well, current version is more relevant which is what that is
small timber
that is what it says yes except that when tested I remember it just dont do that
let me see if I can find my old doc
small timber
if that is 1.4.4 changes then yeah this is outdated (for cal is obviously outdated since double AP is fixed, so referring vanilla one)
gaunt needle
Fixed a bug where, if stacking multiple sources of armor penetration, it would allow weapons to deal extra phantom damage above base damage
1.4.4 changelog
sand marlin
Cal or vanilla
dense ferry
This sugg is 💀
sand marlin
I'm talking vanilla ichor changes
gaunt needle
vanilla
small timber
ok well at least that is 1 mystery solved: it is literally a bug
sand marlin
Huh.
north oracle
This sugg is 💀
Oh we’ve been over it 
small timber
which is why it was so insanely inconsistent to me
sand marlin
I don't remember that being a thing, weird
small timber
I mean it is near unnoticeable unless you test with no damage spread mod
gaunt needle
actually i think stacking blade staff with ichor and melee weapon (so you can use sharpening station) was the op
sand marlin
Oh I just saw this lmao, Hive Pack gives Wasp Gun free 5 AP for more viability, that's so random
gaunt needle
they just made hive pack boost the wasp gun
(probably) doesn't really matter, but still nice feature
sand marlin
bright crag
imo just make tag multiplicative but have whips direct damage contribute more in...
That wouldn't really stop tag from scaling a lot through the game, it'd just use whip exclusive damage as a leash
gaunt needle
oh they also made it boost hornet staff so it actually became viable
(on 2 bosses but still)
small timber
That wouldn't really stop tag from scaling a ***lot*** through the game, it'd ju...
depend, that approach was mainly to solve whips having low multiplicative tag damage doing nothing early game
sand marlin
Oh yeah @north oracle was hornet staff tested with hive pack
small timber
but you can always just do the "additive early, multiplicative late" approach, just people will always ask for "where my additive end game whips"
sand marlin
That's just a random thought that came across my head
bright crag
Well, that's exactly what I mean :p
You use whip exclusive damage to fix the low contribution
bright crag
but you can always just do the "additive early, multiplicative late" approach, j...
Probably the approach we'll take
sand marlin
If you really went hard on whips, you could make unique effects that fit their progression stage and a little more if you wished but that'd be pretty difficult
small timber
Well, that's exactly what I mean :p
You use whip exclusive damage to fix the low...
well that is also about what I mean which is why I was confused about it
by "higher" multiplicative I mean by like naturally progression scaled
as in with progression as multiplicative tag damage become higher, the whip direct damage contribution is reduced proportionally
north oracle
Oh yeah <@707793222264422414> was hornet staff tested with hive pack
Hasn’t gotten a full test yet
sand marlin
Hasn’t gotten a full test yet
north oracle
It was so bad we thought it was bugged
Although iirc it didn’t get affected by hive pack
gaunt needle
i would guess hornet staff without additive tags is bad
north oracle
For some reason
gaunt needle
i would guess hornet staff without additive tags is bad
(worse than on-tier cal minions)
sand marlin
So without additive it's just not good
sand marlin
Whar
bright crag
~~well that is also about what I mean which is why I was confused about it~~
by ...
Yeah, I just
Disagree with the approach
I did understand it
north oracle
And according to Memes that was intentional but he never buffed the damage accordingly
sand marlin
bright crag
Rn, what we'll do is spend some time testing the viability of our plans, how whips currently are in vanilla, and how we can make them work in Calamity
There's a good chance that some people, devs included, have been excessively dramatic about vanilla Summoner's balance and it's actually not fucking Typhon
The numbers will tell
small timber
I mean most opinion is just comes down to:
- they hate or like whips to exist as part of summoner (many people hate whips and want it gone)
- how much damage should whips contribute, is it a good portion so that you need to use whips or whips is fully optional over support weapons? (many people hate whips and want it gone)
so tldr is just many people hate whips and want it gone which is why there is a lot of conflict
I don't think the "balance" part of whips to summoner kit is the source of conflict, it is more the existence of whips
sand marlin
The haters will just have to cope, whips are a part of the game now and can be fit accordingly and actually does so with terraria's rest of the silly-ness
The balance can be handled separately
gaunt needle
i think pure minion summoner should do less damage than any other class just because you get to do nothing, and to make up for that you should use some other weapon
sand marlin
So basically this
gaunt needle
and so you can either use completely different class weapon to deal damage, or use whips/other summoner active weapons to boost your minions
royal tapir
Yeah whips aren’t going anywhere
small timber
i think pure minion summoner should do less damage than any other class just bec...
that is about what is proposed above yeah
royal tapir
Especially if Calamity adds some whips
gaunt needle
calamity making whips melee was just a nightmare 🙏
small timber
cant wait for the vanilla Moon Lord whips giving 20% summoner crit, causing lunar meteor to fall from the sky on whip hit that explode and apply a debuff in wide range which when hit by a summoner minion weapon deal continously explosive damage based on the base damage of your minion, while simultaneously giving you lifesteal on whip hits and stack up whip speed over 30 seconds of continuous hitting
gaunt needle
completely unrelated but stacking firecracker with morning star and dark harvest and completely melting empress with stardust dragon was my favorite whip moment and i would hope something similarly silly would be possible when the summoner update drops
bright crag
What is the problem with another summoner debate?
It's better to discuss things than leave them unaddressed
stray warren
no problems
gaunt needle
calamity should just revert summoner to 1.2 state tbh
pure whale
1.2 summoner was impossible to beat
gaunt needle
boring as in had approx. 4 weapons and no accessories?
stray warren
no problems
just constatation of a fact
bright crag
That, and how it wasn't very active
bright crag
Thrower is 1.3
gaunt needle
pretty sure it was in 1.2 (probably even earlier)
pure whale
1.2.4 summoner was ahhh, idk i don't remember how i played, it was on mobile
gaunt needle
mobile had damaging pets
(1 damage and they never actually tried to damage anything)
bright crag
gaunt needle
huh
bright crag
Fossil armor and Underground Desert were added in 1.3
gaunt needle
why would they add throwing class but give it, uh, 3 armors?
dense ferry
Scopecreep
pure whale
why would they add throwing class but give it, uh, 3 armors?
it was playable only in pre-hm
literally no emblem, no armors, no weapons for thrower in hm
bright crag
Scopecreep
Nope
bright crag
why would they add throwing class but give it, uh, 3 armors?
They just wanted to add the damage type but not have it exist throughout the entire game
Which proved to be a mistake, because everyone found it weird that a class just... died after a point
I understand it but at the same time
Yeah
Of course people would want a full-fledged class
gaunt needle
actually that's not completely bad concept
gaunt needle
considering throwing weapons are actually pretty unique and good pre-hm where you just use random crap
having temporary stronger crap sounds fun
glass arch
@plush swan this has been implemented for next update already
plush swan
oh ok thanks
plush swan
great to see it i was getting worried it might've been ignored lol
sand marlin
Hm
I'd bet there's already a rework in plan
Naturally the rest of the line would get one
small timber
it is the soon™️ rework line yes
the weapon line is planned for rework yes if you want the tldr, as otherwise they will not just change the first item and then its upgrade don't keep any of the initial property
it is just the rework was delayed due to port reasons and also I think dev change?
I forgot if oathblade was iban's work
blazing trout
it is the soon™️ rework line yes
oh thats nice then.
blazing trout
it is just the rework was delayed due to port reasons and also I think dev chang...
is this why the rework stopped at forbidden oathbalde
small timber
tldr yes, originally it was supposed to be the entire line
currently is probably still planned iirc, just will be later
hollow idol
so full story on whats up with the demon swords
Dom worked on the two ingame on a separate github branch in 1.3
For the 1.4 port, all github branches, complete or not aside from some big ones, were merged into the main branch to make porting easier
So the incomplete line got added before the upgrades got reworked
random talon
@wide river nice suggestion, but what would we change the name to?
hollow ridge
Day and night swapping item
wide river
I don't think I need to necessarily provide the rename myself
If anything, giving a specific name idea could potentially lower its chances of being implemented really
random talon
idea: resprite it into the Staff of the Sundial
bright crag
Cosmolight rework
Cosmolight rework
Cosmilite rework
Cosmolight rework
bright crag
Honestly, I feel like Cosmolight having an effect closer to the Sundial would be much better
craggy mica
maybe making a cooldown for it maybe?
bright crag
I don't exactly like items that let you fully control aspects of the world, because it kinda undermines the importance of them and therefore said world
craggy mica
cosmolight is stupidly op in my opinion
worldly sparrow
no shit its op
craggy mica
it makes sundials useless
bright crag
So yeah
Either a cooldown, or just make it work kinda like beds and Sundials where it speeds up time instead of skipping chunks of it
I also wanted to change Torrential Tear to something more thematically fitting
craggy mica
and also kindof kills the whole survival aspect of terraria(i mean post moon lord kills it anyways)
since it becomes more of a boss rush game
bright crag
A statue of the Storm Dragon
You can make an offering of Aerialite Ore to summon a thunderstorm, that lasts a predetermined amount of time
If you can control whether it's raining or not at any time, with not cost, cooldown or windup, how are rains special and why should you care about them?
craggy mica
torrential tear
bright crag
If Spirit's Aurora Night happened every night in the Tundra, it surely would feel much less wondrous than it is
If Meteor Showers happened every New Moon, seeing a meteor shower wouldn't be as impactful
You get what I mean
It's a bit subjective in the sense that I enjoy the immersion in the setting, and the wonders of the world, more than your average player
craggy mica
or ya know remove the climate summons items
bright crag
But there's also that aspect of reward to it
Honestly, I get why they exist
And I think removing them outright wouldn't be considerate in regards to the people that don't care about the world and feel frustrated without those items
craggy mica
terraria isnt a boss rush game
thats why i would like calamity to focus more on biomes and enemies
bright crag
Same!
craggy mica
😃
fervent orbit
really hard to make it enemy focused when enemies are only a problem at the start of pre hm and hm, and all enemies are invalidated by good wings that u can get post plant
spark ravine
Isn't the main goal of the future biome overhaul/subworld updates to do exactly that? Exploration and all that?
craggy mica
what about mnaking more postmoonlord enemies
bright crag
Ngl I kinda wish it was more feasible to make some mobs in the Cal biomes be day or night specific
Making day and night feel more unique
But it only makes sense in one of the 5 existing biomes
You could push it to Distortion and Dragon Aerie ig, but the Aerie won't have many creatures
fervent orbit
after all its a whole ass other dimension
bright crag
I've been advocating for a day-night cycle that isn't really day-night in the Distortion
craggy mica
what about planetoid exclusive enemies
bright crag
But instead energy
A cycle with a part where it's high-energy, bright, hot, more "vanilla" alien
And a part that is low energy, dark, cold, more eldritch alien
Though Distortion mobs in general will be eldritch
bright crag
what about planetoid exclusive enemies
New sky mobs would be pretty awesome
It depends on how much the other devs want to touch up on the Space biome
But I definitely have plans, if they want to
craggy mica
i also would like to see more ice biomes enemies
bright crag
I would like to see the existing ones become cooler tbh
craggy mica
I would like to see the existing ones become cooler tbh
haha get it? "cooler"? since ya know, ice biome, cold, cool, ya know?
wide river
But instead energy
A cycle with a part where it's high-energy, bright, hot, more...
Oooo!
I like that
fervent orbit
But instead energy
A cycle with a part where it's high-energy, bright, hot, more...
yea sure if it doesnt come with another fire debuff
wide river
I guess the cold part of the cycle would explain Endothermic Energy somewhat
hybrid steeple
TRUEE
random talon
can't wait for the future cal content
tho the mods of Noxus, Goozma, and Xeroc (Nameless Diety) may be making my hopes too high for the devs to keep up
glass arch
goozma isnt ever gonna be in base cal
the concept has been dead in the water since noxus first existed as a concept
worldly sparrow
yeah goozma wont ever be in base cal and nameless is designed like an infernum boss which some don't like
bright crag
goozma isnt ever gonna be in base cal
^
Plus, our Noxus and Xeroc are conceptually different
Since those mods use their old lore versions
worldly sparrow
i mean the goozma mod also is based off old lore
because if it was based off new lore it wouldn't exist
bright crag
Yeah
deft yew
Honestly, I feel like Cosmolight having an effect closer to the Sundial would be...
kill cosmolight and make sundial actually feasible to obtain
🦐
worldly sparrow
Latter part may or may not be real soon
bright crag
tired haven
it's already viable
just need a PR campaign to make it recognised ig 
novel belfry
Make the cosmolight recipe require the sundial
wide river
Make the cosmolight recipe require the sundial
Cosmolight craft rate drops to 0%
novel belfry
And for that matter, make the sundial craftable with like, Aerialite?
glass arch
it's already viable
just need a PR campaign to make it recognised ig <:HDfailure...
not to make it recognized to make people realize that fishing isnt a horrible slog most of the time fuck lava fishing
wide river
I think most people don't it simply because of the Angler quests
random talon
I have a mod that makes the Angler armor set bonus give you 3 hooks
deft yew
not to make it recognized to make people realize that fishing isnt a horrible sl...
Thank you
wide river
Can't wait for both of these to either instantly perish in voting or somehow be the top 2
That's how it goes with renames
drowsy plank
lava fishing when it is outright bad
novel belfry
~~I think most people don't it simply because of the Angler quests~~
I have a mod that makes the Angler just sell his stuff
very shrimple, but very effective, maybe too effective
ancient crow
honestly i feel like a pretty good fix for the angler would just be to allow you to start a new quest as soon as you finish the previous one
rather than having to wait until the next day
wide river
Make it a proper RPG quest system where you get several quests at a time and you pick one of the 3 to do
Easy ones give ok rewards and hard ones give good rewards
This will surely not end up being too much effort and ultimately suited for another mod
tired haven
rather than having to wait until the next day
My take, the temperature of which seems to be approaching a melting point of wolfram, is that removing the daily limit makes fishing quests look even more daunting
Sure, you can keep going, but if you spend next 2 hours doing nothing but fishing quests, that's not exactly fun in slightest. With the limit, you do 1 quest and go on for the rest of ingame day playing the game in normal ways 
drowsy plank
honestly i feel like a pretty good fix for the angler would just be to allow you...
there's a mod on the browser for this already lol
it does help
i think perhaps that is true for when ur starting fishing quests, but once u know the rhythm and have fishing pools for/in the major biomes, being able to do multiple a day helps a lot because you just want to try and get your reward asap
deft yew
My take, the temperature of which seems to be approaching a melting point of wol...
the melting point of wulfrum is presumably not all that high
wide river
Wolfram is an alternate name for tungsten
Which Wulfrum is a modification of
Man I lurk the wiki way too much to know this stuff off the top of my head
deft yew
tungsten is pretty tough is it not
cal wulfrum is designed to be fragile but super malleable
tired haven
tungsten is pretty tough is it not
Indeed
wide river
Hmm
wide river
It's asking for Proficiency to be readded as well as asking for Summoner rebalancing
random talon
yea
deft yew
worldly sparrow
yeah, balance issue + readdition
random talon
@junior depot sorry, but asking for the readdition of cut things is against the rules
worldly sparrow
as for summoner balance that'll be worked on eventually
junior depot
well i just wanted to share my thoughts from coming back to the game
it's not really as much an criticism or suggestion as it is just my feedback
hollow shell
Also suggestions should be one-per-message
Cuz there's a voting system attached to suggestions, it'd be difficult to vote on it if there's two wholly separate ideas in the one message
drowsy plank
@junior depot okay so please read the rules document in the pins
reversion suggestions are not allowed
balancing suggestions should be in #1042197406776827914
a follow up suggestion, responding to another suggestion which was already rejected anyway, is also discouraged
and you put two suggestions in a single message which is going to cause. so many problems with the bot. lmao
no there are
so many other issues
do not post these again
drowsy plank
sorry i just
junior depot
i just wanted to share feedback
wide river
I noticed the Summoner part of the suggestion is similar to another suggestion we had earlier today, considering it also brings up balancing with Belladonna Spirit Staff and Ancient Ice Chunk as reasoning
Weird, I guess? But I suppose those are warranted since they were recently reworked
junior depot
no worries
drowsy plank
wanted to make sure you didnt send more stuff
junior depot
i will just remove it all and just play
drowsy plank
feel free to discuss balance in #1042197406776827914 if you want
junior depot
sorry for getting too involved
drowsy plank
no you just didnt read the rules
hollow shell
dw eldra you're all good
drowsy plank
^
errant cradle
Yeah
drowsy plank
you just gotta follow the right channels
hollow shell
#suggestions-posting exists as a review area so we can tell people what is and isn't allowed for suggestions
worldly sparrow
3 staff here wow
errant cradle
Feedback is fine, just posting it in suggs wasn't the best move
wide river
It's not an issue on your part, not at all
Just make sure to read the pinned Suggestion Don'ts Doc at some point in the future and you'll be all good
drowsy plank
3 staff here wow
💥 i was trying to deal with it i was the one that ❗'d it anyway fryzahh and rover just jumpscared me
errant cradle
lol
junior depot
well it's gone now 🙃
flint notch
3 staff here wow
We’re cascading with staff members over here
flint notch
I’m sorry
errant cradle
I have sugg posting notis on all messages now, trying to be a bit more involved with em
wide river
We’re cascading with staff members over here
🥁
wide river
I have sugg posting notis on all messages now, trying to be a bit more involved ...
I don't need to change notif settings because I don't have a life I monitor these channels a lot
worldly sparrow
I don't need to change notif settings because ~~I don't have a life~~ I monitor ...
same for me but uncross i don't have a life
north oracle
I don't need to change notif settings because ~~I don't have a life~~ I monitor ...
same...
hollow ridge
well it's gone now 🙃
Also they seem to have left ?
hollow shell
sad
hollow shell
For clarity @fringe sky, you're referring to the Pwnagehammer --> Galaxy Smasher line, yes?
crude geode
Calamity has more melee weapons than any other class
If you’re only using the vanilla ones, that’s not really on Cal
(Also this feels like it’s bordering on a subclass sugg)
hollow shell
The line "forcing Melee players to generally use vanilla weapons for the weapon type" is very subclass-run feeling yeah
crude geode
Melee already has more of a focus than most of the other classes except for like maybe summoner or rogue tbfh
sand marlin
For clarity <@109827899644760064>, you're referring to the Pwnagehammer --> Gala...
Not gonna lie seeing that line extend towards pre boss would be very fun because of how they play out
hollow shell
My question is what value does it grant the Hammer line to be re-classified as boomerangs? They already have unique functionality, they're already longer-ranged thrown melee weapons
sand marlin
Byeah I don't think those hammers can become boomerangs
I liked Stellar Contempt very much especially
fringe sky
For clarity <@109827899644760064>, you're referring to the Pwnagehammer --> Gala...
yeah correct
hollow shell
(Frankly I think it'd be stronger to propose an "It'd make sense" argument for classifying them that way, considering all the weapons in the line except Pwnage do already return to the player, granted it seems like the only do so after hitting an enemy)
sand marlin
Ig outside of gameplay logic they would have to be returning
hollow shell
((Also I didn't realize they all got reworked actually. Seeing it on the wiki now
The sound design is awesome))
fringe sky
My question is what value does it grant the Hammer line to be re-classified as b...
realistically this is more of an internal labeling / categorizing, not a mechanical change suggestion on the hammer part.
crude geode
Adding more boomerang weapons feels. painful considering how much melee already has
sand marlin
Question
Does cal rework vanilla weapons at all
fringe sky
so on the part of hammers, that's more an "it'd make sense" suggestion yeah
hollow shell
realistically this is more of an internal labeling / categorizing, not a mechani...
Are you currently playing or planning on playing a run where you use only boomerangs
fringe sky
Are you currently playing or planning on playing a run where you use only boomer...
currently playing a one boomerang one flail one yoyo run so more or less yeah
hollow shell
mm
fringe sky
it's just something that I really kinda noticed while doing this (want to try different like subclass challenges just to try out more weapons I normally wouldn't pick up)
fervent orbit
currently playing a one boomerang one flail one yoyo run so more or less yeah
so...an "other" melee subclass run
fringe sky
like for the entirety of pre hm and up until technically you get to post plantera, you have 0 calamity weapon additions for boomerangs
sand marlin
I feel subclass runs are fine for bringing attention to the issue but not as a main reasoning so if you just keep your reasoning separate it should be fine
fringe sky
or boomerangs/hammers
fringe sky
so...an "other" melee subclass run
yeah more or less
lucid marsh
I'm sad that melee loses boomerangs
In calamity
Except when it doesn't
In the early game
sand marlin
Paladin's Hammer
hollow shell
It does come across in the reasoning that you are doing such a run and trying to facilitate it with your sugg
And this Don't exists
sand marlin
...all vanilla boomerangs included
hollow shell
But, at least it isn't too blatant in the suggestion's reasoning, that's not all it mentions
The thing is that
lucid marsh
Actually what's even weirder is that boomerangs aren't melee but the solar eruption and evil biome chest weapons are
hollow shell
Classifying the hammers as boomerangs doesn't actually improve the variety of the melee class at all
They're still really unique non-sword weapons
You could allow yourself to use them as part of your "other" weapon type run
lucid marsh
Flails. Flails are needed
crude geode
Not really
sand marlin
Flails are already a bunch in amount
lucid marsh
Boomerangs are flails without the chain
sand marlin
Flails are already a bunch in amount
That's like the least of the concerns
lucid marsh
Flails are already a bunch in amount
Very much not. They're non-existent after plantera
lucid marsh
Ok fine
hollow shell
Crescent Moon, Mourningstar, Nebulash, Dragon Pow
crude geode
hollow shell
Spine of Thanatos
hollow shell
Pulse Dragon
lucid marsh
Those aren't flails
hollow shell
They are in Calamity's eyes.
hollow shell
Whips deal Summon damage
fervent orbit
flails are fine, its just difficult to use early game
fringe sky
i mean those are whips called flails vs those are boomerangs called hammers (?)
fervent orbit
Those are whips called flails
called flails
sand marlin
I mean they can be flails but I don't like calling them that when they don't follow the Spin -> Throw
lucid marsh
Flail that act like whips are boring compared to spinny ones
sand marlin
Eventually they will get a spin right...
fringe sky
But, at least it isn't too blatant in the suggestion's reasoning, that's not all...
so in that case would it be fairer to change the suggestion to be more of a "put hammers as boomerangs since that makes sense"?
well better i guess
plus the final craft is technically already a boomerang
sand marlin
so in that case would it be fairer to change the suggestion to be more of a "put...
-for a weapon that you recover after throwing out
For further reasoning if you must
hollow shell
With preferably more reasoning than that yes but
I think for the sake of your ulterior motive,
hollow shell
You could allow yourself to use them as part of your "other" weapon type run
^
regardless of their classification.
fringe sky
fervent orbit
plus the final craft is technically already a boomerang
the final craft is also a dev item which would be better not to touch without the devs permission prior
hollow shell
Nahhh Triactis's hammer doesn't count
lucid marsh
Melee is a mess
fringe sky
^
regardless of their classification.
yeah that's what i'm planning on anyways, but it woudl still be good in a clarity sense either way
hollow shell
Nobody's spoken to Triactis in like 6 years
hollow shell
yeah that's what i'm planning on anyways, but it woudl still be good in a clarit...
Alright, sure yeah then you can change the suggestion
Something something
"Players seeing the weapons in the boomerang category gives them more information on how the weapons function compared to their current state as unclassified weapons. It'd be more intuitive for players."
crude geode
Yeah big agree
fringe sky
is that better?
sand marlin
Honestly that's pretty good
fringe sky
do also separately think it would be cool if the crafting tree started in prehm in some capacity than in the middle of hm
but I guess that should be a separate suggsetion if it's even a suggestion that could be made
hollow shell
You could make a suggestion like that yeah
and yeah, better as a separate sugg
It seems like the weapon line is really cool n satisfying now, so
Could be welcome to see it represented more early on
((Maybe it could start with a reworked Basher, that's a pretty boring broadsword and is hammer-esque))
knotty pike
Can you help me what's is it?
crude geode
hollow shell
^
knotty pike
Ok
crude geode
It seems like the weapon line is really cool n satisfying now, so
Could be welco...
As much as I’d complain and whine about it yeah it’s totally valid
sand marlin
Can you help me what's is it?
So was every single buff potion removed from shops or is it like
A very general removal of potions
hollow shell
m, reasoning on the new boomerang sugg is a bit weaker
I would hardly call it a main weapon line, it doesn't even go into an Exo weapon
And you can say that the weapons in the line are fun to use
fringe sky
what's the name again of the like celestus tier weapon
exo ty
would that be a bit better?
hollow shell
mm You're starting to lose focus a bit
The suggestion is for adding earlier weapons in the line
hollow shell
Oh yeah are boomerangs still changed into rogue weapons?
Some are rogue some are melee
fringe sky
most are rogue though
sand marlin
Vanilla boomerangs are never rogue I think
lucid marsh
It should be one or the other
Yes that's true
Calamity boomerangs I'm pretty sure are all rogue
hollow shell
mm You're starting to lose focus a bit
The suggestion is for adding *earlier* we...
And the current spacing of Galaxy being post-DoG and Triactis being Shadowspec is fine enough
Wedging an Exo weapon in there too might be a bit.. frequent
You'd only use it for SCal
sand marlin
It's calamity's perspective on vanilla things to not change them drastically if I recall
crude geode
^^^^
fringe sky
mm You're starting to lose focus a bit
The suggestion is for adding *earlier* we...
while true I was looking at the line currently i'm trying to figure out a spot how to incoporate it well without it being like a tri weapon inclusion if that makes sense
lucid marsh
This makes the mod a worse experience imo
Calamity is already impractical to use with other mods. Might as well make it the best overhaul experience it can be
hollow shell
Calamity boomerangs I'm pretty sure are all rogue
Untrue there are two (2) melee boomerangs in Calamity
lucid marsh
Ok but that's laughable
sand marlin
So far in cal only like 2 actual categorized hammers and the pwnagehammer line are melee bomerangs right
fringe sky
So far in cal only like 2 actual categorized hammers and the pwnagehammer line a...
if hte first suggestion goes through then yeah technically
rn though it's just literally two weapons
one being the donor spec weapon
sand marlin
if hte first suggestion goes through then yeah technically
Mechanically it should still count as a weapon that returns back to the user after being thrown out
fringe sky
yeah
sand marlin
Just needs clarification on the labelling
hollow shell
Yeah that's what Piano's first suggestion is
fringe sky
anyways pwnage is post mechs, ph is at post plantera, fph is post golem, sc is post ml
fph combines the first two, pwnage comes from a pwnhammer already, and ph is a vanilla drop
so a theoretical prehm/earlyhm line would then ig do what, join with fph for sc?
hollow shell
@lucid marsh (I would advise against making a suggestion that has an alternative solution to the boomerang topic right now, because then your suggestions will compete with each other and sap away stars)
sand marlin
PWNhammer is a tool
lucid marsh
Ok, I'll post something here for now and put it in there officially later
fringe sky
ok
rover i redid it
was just trying to figure out where to fit it at first but this should work now
hollow shell
anyways pwnage is post mechs, ph is at post plantera, fph is post golem, sc is p...
Probably would go into the recipe for Pwnagehammer so that it doesn't convert Pwnhammer into a totally different item out of nowhere
Instead the weapon type starts earlier, and Pwn contributes to the uhhh the theming
fringe sky
Probably would go into the recipe for Pwnagehammer so that it doesn't convert Pw...
that could be another possibility, but also considering how there are sort of these branch weapon inclusions already with the line (pwnage exists, then paladin's hammer separately later, then they combine), this might kinda fit too
hollow shell
(Though it doesn't really need to be specified in the suggestion, can leave it up to the devs the exact execution
But, imo having it come in at Pwnage could strengthen the reason a little bit, and resolve the weapon type conversion 'issue')
lucid marsh
Make all Calamity boomerangs melee or make all vanilla boomerangs rogue
I would really like the dev team to reconsider their stance on this decision that was made a long time ago. It's very annoying to have boomerangs as an option for melee players in the early game, but then none later in the game, and also annoying for rogue players to have to craft weapons they can't really use (for ingredients) and also have fewer options than it looks like they should have in the early game.
I don't think this will break other mods much either, because no one in their right mind uses other content mods with calamity anyways.
hollow shell
It is currently a Don't
small timber
and also literally does not do anything yes
fringe sky
ok i also added your idea too rover
lucid marsh
Calamity already overhauls vanilla things
fringe sky
but yeah
small timber
especially that galaxy/paladin hammer line get reworked now
sand marlin
It is **currently** a Don't <:clueless:1064298508653432933>
I mean how it treads around the line byeah pretty much
fringe sky
both suggestions are good now probably
lucid marsh
It's silly that this isn't allowed
hollow shell
ok i also added your idea too rover
Nice thank you
Sorry for backseating the suggestion lol
sand marlin
Calamity already overhauls vanilla things
Give some drastic examples
fringe sky
nah it's fine lol
small timber
like, what is the point of categorizing them as "boomerang"
is there any in game reference/impact other than which category are they listed on the wiki page?
lucid marsh
Give some drastic examples
Hardmode ores
sand marlin
like, what is the point of categorizing them as "boomerang"
A weapon that returns after being thrown
hollow shell
I mean how it treads around the line byeah pretty much
Nah I mean that the devs and I are currently reviewing the Don'ts doc and stuff like that is on the table for being removed as a rule
But, nothing for certain yet
fringe sky
A weapon that returns after being thrown
more specifically a weapon projectile that returns after being thrown (to not mix with flails)
sand marlin
Damn
small timber
ranger launcher/bow/gun etc have an impact because of shroomite armor variant and ammo they use
sand marlin
Hardmode ores
That has a config
small timber
categorizing melee weapon, in this case hammer as "boomerang" has no impact on the game other than how the wiki list them
hollow shell
is there any in game reference/impact other than which category are they listed ...
Nope
So the first sugg is just a really minor technical detail basically
small timber
like do we need to categorize vampire knifes as "fan"?
sand marlin
So like, drastic vanilla change that is not forced upon the player
crude geode
That has a config
only cuz of mod conflicts iirc
fringe sky
it's a minor detail that also secondaries as a clarity improvement
small timber
Nope
So the first sugg is just a really minor technical detail basically
my issue with the suggestion is it is trying to chain to the first suggestion
- categorize boomerang -> 2) give boomerang into the crafting tree
hollow shell
(btw I'll address the potion config sugg when this convo dies down)
sand marlin
only cuz of mod conflicts iirc
Well it shouldn't be the only reason because of cal's perspective of not changing vanilla drastically
At least that's as far as I see
Making weapons an entirely different class is pretty much redefining the weapon
Unless you don't change anything about it besides the class damage
That wouldn't make much sense, considering rogue has stealth strikes too
hollow shell
my issue with the suggestion is it is trying to chain to the first suggestion
1...
Ahh I guess the second one does kinda depend on the first considering it does call the Galaxy Smasher weapons "boomerangs"
Didn't notice that at first
I guess it'd be more apt to call them "Thrown Hammers"
fringe sky
is suggestion chaining a don't
crude geode
yes
hollow shell
Suggestions that specifically refer to or depend on previous suggs, that is
crude geode
explicit references usually get you immediately dinged but something like this can be modified
red saddle
Is my suggestion ok? Or is it a bug im having
hollow shell
You can have these two suggestions exist as long as they stand on their own, in isolation
red saddle
ah, ok
lucid marsh
So like, drastic vanilla change that is not forced upon the player
This doesn't have to be forced either
There's lots here
Most are minor
fringe sky
there we go
sand marlin
This doesn't have to be forced either
"Drastic vanilla change"
As you have said, they are minor
They don't affect gameplay by significant amounts
fringe sky
does it matter? probably not
but hey it fits while also not being reliant on each other
hollow shell
there we go
Yep that's better thank you
lucid marsh
Added Roger they do, like all the defense increases to accessories and rebalances to otherwise useless vanilla weapons
Hey I wonder
Can a weapon count as two damage types at once?
crude geode
fuckfuckfuckfuck
north oracle
not as far as cal's concerned, but it's technically doable
lucid marsh
Boomerangs should count as melee and rogue
Whichever would deal more damage, perhaps
But if it's melee you don't get stealth strikes
fringe sky
you're describing what the weapons were like two years ago
small timber
my issue with the suggestion is still mainly is that it literally change nothing except for how it is listed on wiki
lucid marsh
Not that you would anyways because you'd be wearing melee armor
lucid marsh
you're describing what the weapons were like two years ago
??
small timber
since they had said to not want to change weapon type of vanilla weapons, so vanilla boomerang will stay melee
lucid marsh
There was like one weapon that did this, that I know of
lucid marsh
Oh well yeah they were duplicated
frail mantle
a lot of weapons had both a melee and rogue variant
lucid marsh
As two different items
crude geode
i think prismatic breaker benefits from two damage types at once
prismatic breaker when it is probably the most egregious dono item
lucid marsh
I'm saying make it be the same item
crude geode
that feel like it goes back to the problem of the weapon being dilluted down
fringe sky
every weapon listed here was a duplicate rogue/melee weapon
frail mantle
prismatic breaker when it is probably the most egregious dono item
average donor item tbh
lucid marsh
There was some gun that was also magic
crude geode
yes, and nobody used it
hollow shell
Is my suggestion ok? Or is it a bug im having
(ah I may as well just say it now)
The Potion Selling config does still affect NPC shops, just not as much as it did before.
It toggles:
- Merchant selling empty Bottles, Wormhole Potions, regular Healing Potions, and regular Mana Potions
- Goblin Tinkerer selling Stink Potions
- Mechanic selling Builder Potions
- Party Girl selling Gender Change Potions
- Skeleton Merchant selling Calcium Potions
- Bandit selling Invisibility Potions and Night Owl Potions
- Drunk Princess selling Love Potions
fringe sky
so 17 weapons there
hollow shell
You could still argue that the config is unnecessary cuz it's such a minor effect now, not bloating their shops like before
But it isn't doing literally nothing
crude geode
There was some gun that was also magic
the effect was so niche and meaningless gameplay wise that it didn't really do anything, and just dilluted both class identity and the identity of the weapon down
sand marlin
not as far as cal's concerned, but it's technically doable
Support weapons
They are average of class damages
lucid marsh
the effect was so niche and meaningless gameplay wise that it didn't really *do*...
I agree, it was bad
I still think boomerangs need something
cobalt pewter
is dog even still trying to nom provi in the new lore
dapper apex
He can but it's not his main goal
onyx osprey
I was under the impression that DoG will consume anything given the opportunity (which the Terrarian provides)
DoG has been wanting to for a while, but Providence is elusive
dapper apex
Dog has a clear goal that is related to gods specifically
frail mantle
DoG has been wanting to for a while, but Providence is elusive
i think that's old lore
dapper apex
In old lore it was his main goal yeah
In new lore dog would absolutely kill provi if he had a chance but it's not his goal
red saddle
Do you think a recipe for Bewitching Table, Water Candle, and Alchemy Table would be a good addon?
Mainly asking this because I can't fucking find an Alchemy table, so a recipe to make it would be nice
lucid marsh
It's not very necessary
onyx osprey
fair, but main goal or not, there's a dying god right there, wouldn't DoG want a snack? :P
I just think it'd be a cool visual mainly
cobalt pewter
"it'd be cool" is pretty much a weak reasoning
frail mantle
yeah
lucid marsh
The NPC you get for killing queen bee
frail mantle
though i do agree that the later bosses having more buildup would be cool
cobalt pewter
the lore reasoning could work if it's still relevant (which, to my understanding, is not atm)
onyx osprey
and it ties lore with gameplay. we're always told what DoG can do, but we never see it
cobalt pewter
at least that specific approach of lore
frail mantle
draedon already has some with the whole codebreaker side quest, but the rest of the big four™️ don't really have that much
cobalt pewter
if you're taking this approach on the current lore it'd probably work
red saddle
Witch doctor
After which boss?
dapper apex
I think it would be great to see dog before the fight but in different way
Maybe in distortion background when it's added
lucid marsh
Maybe it's WoF then
red saddle
No, he only sells bewitching table when Wizard is present
hollow shell
@onyx osprey
"the even more massive DoG (as per the upcoming sprite rework)"
"DoG's getting its new sprite, why not show it off with a cool visual?"
You're only allowed to make suggestions about what is currently in-game, not anything that is upcoming. This is because upcoming content is subject to change, it may be different when it does get added or it may even get scrapped.
Also, "perhaps DoG could use an attack or two from Providence's AI"
This significantly increases the scope of the suggestion beyond a purely-visual death animation, cuz now it affects DoG's boss fight and requires balancing and all that.
Okay you removed the latter, good
Former still requires attention
sand marlin
though i do agree that the later bosses having more buildup would be cool
The Story Mode Update
The year is 2069, chaos ensues........
frail mantle
Terraria Story Mode by TellTale
umbral gazelle
#suggestions-posting message "we never actually see dog devour anything"
me after seeing him devour my friend
onyx osprey
<@87457774119706624>
"the even more massive DoG (as per the upcoming sprite rew...
it should work either way, old sprite or new; I can just remove the 'new sprite' bit
if that's what you're suggesting?
cobalt heath
aren't death animations work in progress?
like dog is getting one at some point already
also that would not make sence lore wise even
hollow shell
aren't death animations work in progress?
afaik they're not any more or less "work in progress" now than they always have been
cobalt heath
I mean yeah but I would assume w a new sprite new animations are in order
because thats the standard set in calamity
hollow shell
if that's what you're suggesting?
Yes, the suggestion should be written with the current sprite in mind
cobalt heath
Imo provis death animation is like the best one atm
and w her new sprite coming at some point
I don't see the need for this sugg at all
hollow shell
Providence is getting resprited??
cobalt heath
Oh wait the sprite is not calamity inside?
north oracle
That’s an unoffical resprite that was never actually submitted afaik
Bloody amazing tho
hollow shell
What one was it
cobalt heath
Would have 100% been aproved
cobalt heath
it was only missing the wings
I hope gelatum finishes it
cus they put so much work in it
north oracle
That’s not even the most recent version, but that’s what I can find
It’s been a while since they’ve posted anything tho
hollow shell
coral carbon
yeah i do prefer something more regal looking like this over the
strangely wood and dirt looking current provi
ah
yeah
that makes sense
the wings
always the wings
cobalt heath
yeah the wings are so hot
coral carbon
thanks boss
hollow shell
The design is way cooler and more holy looking
hollow shell
Though the texturing is in a uhhh, a different style than I'm used to
cobalt heath
Yeah
coral carbon
yeah it looks more regal and holy which fits prov more than how the current one seems
cobalt heath
also idt this fits the current art style the devs have
coral carbon
oddly woody?? or like, dirt-y???
cobalt heath
but tho if Yharons sprite is coming
the general art style doesn't rly matter
when considering resprites
coral carbon
calamity art style is a myth,,,,,,
like yeah generally,,, but theres no exact style
cobalt heath
cus I feel the current style is even kind of cartoonish
also they really love glow
Ig I am so used to ibans style that I can't really look at anything else and to be like this looks weird but good
or the old art direction in general
lucid marsh
I really hope these sprites get in
The Provo one and the Yharon one that been in progress for ages
cobalt heath
yharons takes so long cus the fight is getting some tweaks and the funny thing that is animation
and devs have other things to do atm
having to animate the feathers is hell
onyx osprey
Yes, the suggestion should be written with the *current* sprite in mind
anything else need to be changed or is it workable now?
north oracle
Yharon’s will be in
It’s just a matter of when it’s done
hollow shell
anything else need to be changed or is it workable now?
Last sentence of the sugg
hollow shell
Aight nice thank you
cobalt heath
btw Clark I want to ask you 1 guestion
hollow shell
I think it's fine now
The elaboration is a bit specific but tbh it's what anybody would imagine this concept looking like
cobalt heath
how would this absorbing provis soul affect dogs fight
north oracle
Don’t go into specifics in the sugg
hollow shell
how would this absorbing provis soul affect dogs fight
(They had that in their sugg and I asked them to remove it)
north oracle
Never go too deep into lore (especially around distortion entities), it probably conflicts with unreleased stuff
cobalt heath
cus in canon dog does not devour providence
cobalt heath
Never go too deep into lore (especially around distortion entities), it probably...
I can't help it
I am a lore tard
hollow shell
Lore implications are fine from what I can tell
DoG is still an actual god devourer in the current lore. Just cuz he isn't seeking Providence specifically anymore doesn't mean he can't try eating her, she's a god
north oracle
Yeah, there’s no real reason DoG wouldn’t show up if he knew (afaik)
dapper apex
Lore implications are fine from what I can tell
DoG is still an actual god devou...
Yeah, pretty much
dapper apex
Tho imo (and it's only an opinion) it would be a bit underwhelming to have dog eat provi like that, because it can take away your sense of victory. You just killed a strong and difficult boss and suddenly a new entity appears and basically takes your victory. Yeah, you killed her, but still it leaves a not good taste in a mouth imo
cobalt heath
true that!
Also then you see dog being easier than prov and are like this thing robbed me of my victory
hollow shell
Tho imo (and it's only an opinion) it would be a bit underwhelming to have dog e...
Well that's kinda the point
DoG is an asshole
cobalt heath
also lazy
onyx osprey
Tho imo (and it's only an opinion) it would be a bit underwhelming to have dog e...
imo this isn't a negative thing; it goes to show you have some ways to go
dapper apex
True...
cobalt heath
would he bother?
north oracle
Provi was one of the most powerful gods in existence
If he could get to her when she’s almost dead, he would
cobalt heath
yeah true true
dapper apex
make him kill slime god after queen slime battle instead
odd geyser
What if, you just killed Provi, DoG appears and eats her now dead body, and a short fight not to kill, but to simply stop/repel DoG starts, you fight it for some time and then DoG decides to leave you, for now atleast
Besides being slightly inspired by MH repels, this likely won't happen, and that's fair, but it would be cool to tease one of the strongest beings you'll fight
onyx osprey
while cool, that's a lot more involved
hollow shell
("MH repels"
user profile checks out)
odd geyser
("MH repels"
user profile checks out) <:HDfailure:482263678150770729>
Fr
I am the Monster Hunter dude at this point
cobalt heath
''GET AWAY FROM MY CORPSE YOU WORM!''
odd geyser
I am the Monster Hunter dude at this point
Man I love this series of cool looking monsters that have interesting biology and ecology, where you fight things that range from a big yellow iguana that can swallow monsters whole (Great Jagras), all the way to a living volcano dragon that fries all life in entire seas with its sheer body heat (Dire Miralis)
Fr tho I really like how consistent they are with monster ecology for the most part, except for things that are supposed to be anomalies, or portable games being portable games, I also really like how these dudes be facing world ending dragons while being tiny humans with sticks and be like "it is mortal therefore we can kill it and make it into cool armor"
bright crag
Yeah I'd imagine that, if DoG does jump in to eat Providence, he'd just not care about the player at all
"This dipshit isn't worth killing"
onyx osprey
"thanks for the snack, idiot"
bright crag
Pretty much
buoyant idol
@onyx osprey Perhaps add that it fixes a lore issue with the fact gods leave residue that turn into biomes and DoG fixes that since it’s Yharim’s garbage can.
hollow shell
What
bright crag
That's not really an issue :p
Because god remains turning into biomes takes time
Besides, Crimson/Corruption/Hallow are made from the essence of multiple Gods, not just one
small timber
and also having suggestions based on lore is probably not the best idea, considering not all lores are released and a lot of new lores are still being made
for example from one moment moon lord can be a literal incomplete god to just a mutated squid from the abyss
also isnt the Providence death animation suggestion still abit too specific? the assumption is that the lore have to work exactly as the suggestion planned for the reasoning to stand
if the devs planned to do something like this probably will be best for when the lore is set down and they implement it themselves?
buoyant idol
True, perhaps too specific for changing lore.
small timber
instead of through a suggestion based on a future visual rework (which also kind of make it future content) under the assumption of a constantly changing lore that we might not even know the entirety (lore) of, and in a very specific visual execution of said lore
bright crag
Moon Lord isn't a God
And don't worry, if there was lore contradicting this, I'd tell you :p
sand marlin
Ahh I see
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1112873622562947104/113579873...
Recovered-Recovered-Recovered-Recovered-Recovered.gif
bright crag
also isnt the Providence death animation suggestion still abit too specific? the...
It isn't needlessly specific though
It doesn't specify things for the sake of subjective specificity, it's just the only rational way to implement such thing
hybrid steeple
i like the idea but i feel like it kinda cheapens yharim's praise of your actions when you beat her
odd geyser
Ye, that's very true
He'd probably comment more on DoG appearing than Providence being slain if this was what happened
stable kiln
i kinda dig this idea ngl
cobalt heath
that is gonna be flagged
random talon
@timber stirrup Sorry, but suggestions about adding whips are against the rules.
random talon
Keep in mind, whips will be added in due time. However, the developers wish to balance the summoner class before adding whips
and by balance, they mean nerf to hell and back
random talon
mfs made zenith a useless-ahh weapon
cobalt heath
Hello, welcome to calamity, we have a class that does basically what 1 other class does w/o any limits and being tanky af
We have 1 balanced class
1 class that is worse than the other class mentioned earlier w a bit better dps
golden sonnet
mfs made zenith a useless-ahh weapon
Zenith is really good, it's more than viable against ares despite ares having a direct resistance to it, and is the best melee weapon for SCals seekers phae
timber stirrup
<@651580869986877467> Sorry, but suggestions about adding whips are against the ...
Oh?
golden sonnet
1 class which is isn't completed
?????
timber stirrup
Also I don't find the summoner class op-
golden sonnet
and our custom one, which is a fucking wildfire
What are you even saying?
cobalt heath
rogue is a wildfire
in terms of balance
it's always either really good or really bad
random talon
people believe summoner is absolutely broken, meanwhile bosses can literally cough on you and you die when playing summoner
golden sonnet
it's always either really good or really bad
Not really
The only issue with rogue is how much specific accessories can change things. There are plenty of places in the game where rogue is neither op nor weak
random talon
and our custom one, which is a fucking wildfire
we also have true melee
random talon
I still believe it deserves mention
random talon
ok
I swear, the whip/summoner balance discourse has spawned some of the stupidest takes on the server
what I mean is ideas to take away fundamental parts of summoner/whips for the sake of balance
timber stirrup
Oh?
golden sonnet
what I mean is ideas to take away fundamental parts of summoner/whips for the sa...
If you are referring to whip stacking, the vanilla devs themselves stated it was unintended and they plan to remove it at some point if given the chance
timber stirrup
What's whip stacking?
random talon
didn't they literally make whip stacking easier in 1.4.4?
stray warren
stacking effects of multiple whips
self explanatory
by effects i mean tag damage, whip speed (from other whips), firecracker's exlosions, etc
cobalt pewter
oh god not another whip discussion
stray warren
cobalt pewter
anyways adding more whips is less priority than actually balancing them first
random talon
sand marlin
anyways adding more whips is less priority than actually balancing them first
Technically falls under planned content anyway
Probably
cobalt pewter
true
sand marlin
It's best to assume whips won't die off at post ML with the addition of moon lord whip in 1.4.5 since cal's got more to add than that
Cnidarian exists after all
random talon
I do hope that Calamity will add and rebalance whips without taking away their core identity
after all, whips should be able to compete with the Lunic Eye/Eye of Magnus
else, why even bother when the Lunic Eye is better?
frail mantle
They’re supposed to be support weapons
I’m pretty sure the intention is to keep them that way
stray warren
oh god please not another whips discussion
flint linden
else, why even bother when the Lunic Eye is better?
Because more damage is better than less
random talon
Because more damage is better than less
exactly. Marked For Death is a great debuff, making the Lunic Eye powerful
flint linden
That's not what I meant
If you use both of them you'll deal even more damage
That's what I meant
random talon
ah
at this point, we should create a whip argument channel for people to endlessly debate over the state of whips in Calamity
random talon
epic suggestion
buoyant idol
Make an entire discord for the express purpose of arguing about whips.
random talon
I saw your YT channel and your most recent video on Cracker's Wither Storm mod. Good video
random talon
https://tenor.com/view/fall-kirby-drop-falling-deep-gif-17081698
I can hear the scream from this image
yea, they'll probably nerf the current summon gear into nothingness
grim tusk
grim tusk
didn't they literally make whip stacking easier in 1.4.4?
Unintentionally apparently (Leinfors wanted whip stack dead)
grim tusk
The only issue with rogue is how much specific accessories can change things. Th...
Rogue can be summarized with a word “experimentation”
Its fun to find out what accessories work best with certain weapons
wintry gale
dreamtastic pre venerated locket fix
buoyant idol
I saw your YT channel and your most recent video on Cracker's Wither Storm mod. ...
Thanks!
novel belfry
Fr tho I really like how consistent they are with monster ecology for the most p...
And also apparently the strongest monster in the series... is a fucking normal dragon
like, the most basic, stereotypical dragon is the strongest and meanest monster in the series
random talon
ah
I think should be a pet in Calamity
imagine having a following your character around
fervent orbit
its probably the most used emote in the server
hollow ridge
fervent orbit
hollow ridge
This is
fervent orbit
just has a few uses
novel belfry
🇭
odd geyser
like, the most basic, stereotypical dragon is the strongest and meanest monster ...
Fatalis being strongest is debatable actually, I have other 4 contenders that through either statements or feats can be debates to be on its level, those being Alatreon, Safi'jiiva, Dire Miralis and Dalamadur, thought it is true that Fatalis is the meanest
novel belfry
Fatalis being strongest is debatable actually, I have other 4 contenders that th...
I mean, fatty is what capcom would want the strongest monster to be, but the debate between fatty and dalamadur will never end
odd geyser
And I say this while Fatalis is my second favorite monster ever and has my favorite fight ever
odd geyser
I mean, fatty is what capcom would want the strongest monster to be, but the deb...
Let's move to gentalk or genmedia
novel belfry
i mean, the latter is a fucking giant snake that has huge firebreath attacks and can even fucking summon meteors
but let's just leave it off here
odd geyser
All I'll say before moving on is that
While Fatalis can casually pull off fire attacks comparable to nukes, Dalamadur's brute physical strength is far greater
Anyways
Suggestions
kindred creek
would I be able to suggest a change to the shcematics and decrypting them? I'm worried this would be too specific, but a major flaw I see with the durrent version is that, for a new player, if they do not start the power cell factories early they won't have enough cells. My suggestin would be to replace the power cells with mini-bosses that drop the decrypted schematic.
i'm not looking for an opinion right now, I just want to know if that's allowed
small timber
A similar suggestion was denied before relatively recently
The involvement of power cell, therefore power cell factories are deliberate
random talon
congrats, you have made the 2500th suggestion regarding power cell factories! Here's your reward! 🎂
In all seriousness, having the schematics be tied to minibosses sounds like it would make the game that much more fighting-oriented, which isn't what the mod needs
small timber
Rather than trying to replace power cells, the importance of power cell factory should be emphasized so thta you know you SHOULD get them early
random talon
I just had an idea!!!
small timber
(which is also suggested, and iirc is passed)
kindred creek
i just see a major flaw in the current system in which if a new player who is unaware of the amount of power cells you need will have to afk for hours to get them, which is a flawed system. Unlike a rare drop which requires hours of farming, these are reqired items and as such shouldnt be time based to obtain.
novel belfry
I know they're adding variants of the Armored Digger throughout progression
so maybe have those guys drop a bunch of power cells
random talon
What if in a lab, there's a note that tells Draedon's employees to remember to generate and use the batteries to use the Draedon Arsenal
small timber
That is the thing: exactly what you suggested (reduce power cell requirement/replace it) had been denied, very recently
novel belfry
What if in a lab, there's a note that tells Draedon's employees to remember to g...
YES
onyx osprey
i like the idea but i feel like it kinda cheapens yharim's praise of your action...
rather late, but; would it not be in character for DoG to be a complete ass, in contrast to Yharim's usual courtesy? as I understand it, DoG sort of does his own thing nowadays and never particularly cared about Yharim's opinion
kindred creek
what they should do is have the power cell factories running since the start of the game automatically inside the labs so that even once yu find the lab there is already plenty of power cells made
small timber
With that being the case, the effort should be emphasizing that you are supposed to get power cell factory working early
onyx osprey
(not sure if people dislike being pinged here, every server's different >.>)
small timber
#suggestions-voting message @gritty acorn I am almost certain (dont quote me on this), that when this suggestion is posted, the devs said they also made banners works on platform
hybrid steeple
<@87457774119706624> in lore dog didnt consume providence
u r misinterpreting it
in old lore, dogs goal was to eat providence
in new lore, that is no longer his main goal
gritty acorn
https://discord.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/1156281662158...
o
hybrid steeple
that doesnt mean he wouldnt eat her though
gritty acorn
in old lore, dogs goal was to eat providence
theres new lore?
hybrid steeple
rather late, but; would it not be in character for DoG to be a complete ass, in ...
it would be in character for dog, yes
but that wasnt my point
my point is that providence's lore item is all about yharim praising you for your incredible achievement in killing her, and if you just got her to 0.1 hp and then dog came in and stole your kill it would cheapen that
hushed scarab
o
yeah its gonna be in the next possible patches/updates iirc so. thats planned. + the calamity lamps too etc
hybrid steeple
theres new lore?
yes
there has been for the past 7 months
small timber
Ok found it
glass arch
https://discord.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/1156281662158...
they have
gritty acorn
yes
there has been for the past 7 months
!
onyx osprey
fair, I don't find it cheap but I can see that perspective. I see it as 'don't celebrate yet, you have an even stronger enemy to deal with'. agree to disagree I suppose
fervent orbit
@gritty acorn see #suggestions-discussion message and #suggestions-discussion message
gritty acorn
<@510504389048401930> see https://discord.com/channels/225030931008847874/465195...
not for rotdog banner
fervent orbit
what
small timber
That is the point
gritty acorn
thats now a bug not a missing feature
gritty acorn
That is the point
point of what
hollow shell
Oh
huh
@small timber Is that 20 seconds only during boss fights or is it always 20?
Either way the wiki is outdated
onyx osprey
yeh that seems like a bug
hollow shell
<@290083110312214528> Is that 20 seconds only during boss fights or is it always...
(I ask cuz I suspect it could be connected to how the duration of NR gets boosted too)
small timber
Iirc it is same as NR (20) in boss fight, because I just recently use it
I forgot if it is 6 or 20 out of boss fight though, I cant test right now
Can even be 15 (6s chaos state, 15s CD on spectral veil) outside of boss fight
small timber
Is that certain? Since when I recently used it (as in like ~6-7 days ago) the Chaos State duration was more than the actual Spectral Veil CD
In boss fight at least
Or is this a bug/byproduct of having both NR in inventory and spectral veil equipped?
royal tapir
I looked at source, and tested it in game
small timber
Since the teleport I had was 100% spectral veils' (because it give iframe), but it somehow use NR's chaos state duration even though SV teleport is used just because NR is in my inventory?
royal tapir
150% certain
small timber
But yeah I gtg now, since this might be a bug and I cant test it right now I will delete the suggestion first
hollow shell
Or is this a bug/byproduct of having both NR in inventory and spectral veil equi...
Seems likely that it's a bug involving this yeah
craggy mica
is it allowed to suggest a removal of an item?
north oracle
you'll need pretty solid reasoning or for it to be a disliked item, or it'll never get past voting
but i don't think it's against any rules
craggy mica
alr
buoyant idol
What item do you want to see removed anyways?
north oracle
oh, fair enough
north oracle
it's a relatively useless item that's used in very few crafting recipes and could easily be replaced
craggy mica
its just that it always fills one inventory slot and i have to trash it every time i go to the jungle and it annoys me cuz my keybinds suck
more of my fault but alr
north oracle
sadness
golden sonnet
Despite the fact that this one passed #suggestions-voting message
So they clearly have some plans to reduce jungle material bloat
north oracle
...lol?
fervent orbit
probably want trapper bulb to be the generic hm jungle item
golden sonnet
Ye
They clearly have some sort of plan that kinda aligns but also doesn't with those suggestions
fervent orbit
instead of 3 hm jungle crafting mats
livid coral
Yeah there’s a plan to reduce bloat
I do not remember what it is I’m half asleep at work rn
fervent orbit
get back to work then
undone holly
instead of 3 hm jungle crafting mats
chlorophyte, trapper bulb, and whats the third?
buoyant idol
Beetle juice
undone holly
ah
onyx osprey
there are too many useless items like that, the jungle and overall the underground
just a ton of junk you never use
onyx osprey
there's another one
fervent orbit
chlorophyte is fine
onyx osprey
ancient bone dust doesn't really need to exist either
it's used in 4 recipes and the only remotely useful one is post Skeletron where it's not all that useful (archaic powder)
wide river
The "filler" stuff is slowly but surely being dealt with
Give it time and everything will have a reason for existing
north oracle
I believe bone dust is another one that will eventually be handled
north oracle
Especially now that bundle of horseshoe balloons exists
golden sonnet
I believe bone dust is another one that will eventually be handled
Yeah, I think they said they are going to keep one between demonic bone ash and bone dust
north oracle
The main time it was inconvenient to not have fall damage immunity was when using BoB for vertical mobility
Now there’s a horseshoe in that
onyx osprey
ah, I guess it had... some kind of use-case
north oracle
Yeah
Now it… kinda doesn’t
novel belfry
(calcium potions probably don't need to exist either imo)
I remembered an argument i had where i was super annoyed at how a bunch of potions got removed... aside from the calcium potion
#calamity-update-talk message here was where i got particularly peeved
one of the devs said that it was nice utlity in the early game and if you were using the bundle of balloons
i brought up the (upcoming at the time) existence of the Bundle of Horseshoe Balloons, and Fabsol responded in the single most funny way possible
drowsy plank
the only arguement i could see for calcium staying is if horseshoe lost its recipe and was stuck back in exclusively sky island
smh one of the worst changes in 1.4.4 fr
novel belfry
really man? why did it have to be moved back? now fledgling wings is WAY harder to get
buoyant idol
Fledgling wings were quite powerful for pre hardmode and invalidated rocket boots for the most part.
drowsy plank
Fledgling wings were quite powerful for pre hardmode and invalidated rocket boot...
and they still do!
like fishing exists, even if your world doesnt generate with them
buoyant idol
Change it to fishing exclusive
bright crag
For Ancient Bone Dust and Demonic Bone Ash, our intention is to merge them into a single material, and make it more useful
My opinion about Calcium Potion is that
Lucky Horseshoe should not be that easy to craft
It's not even funny how cheap it is
golden sonnet
My opinion about Calcium Potion is that
Lucky Horseshoe should not be that easy ...
how do you feel about giving bounding potion full fall res instead of just 25 blocks. It feels a bit weird to have 2 potions with anti fall
onyx osprey
what if you were only able to craft accessories if you've found them naturally first?
that way you still need to explore but there's less tedium in the later game
idk if that's a thing you can do though
golden sonnet
Based on the precedent of the sunken sea schematic (and all other schematics), it would probably not be hard to do
onyx osprey
imo something sort of gets lost when you can craft everything without exploring
lucid marsh
That would suck and defeat the point of crafting them
You only need most accessories once
onyx osprey
there would be a purpose; any time you need duplicates
onyx osprey
I often do. not every single run but fairly often
lucid marsh
For what recipes?
golden sonnet
BoB, loadouts
lucid marsh
If you're selling them, that's on you