suggestions-discussion

[left hawk]

Even if the BG of the fight is black the time of day still affects the lighting of the blocks in the world IIRC

So it could be jarring

[wide river]

That would require one of two things to take place, both of which are ???

1. Supreme Witch, Calamitas would have to be locked to night
2. Supreme Witch, Calamitas would change the time to night randomly during the fight

If neither of these two things would happen, then it's just a random effect if you just happen to summon her at night manually

(Also I don't think Calamitas has any connections to the Blood Moon lore-wise so there's that too)

[worldly sparrow]

the discussion above gave me an idea

[flint notch]

you could ask for some kind of other visual thing to give that feeling of intensity. but i dont think blood moon would be the best to do it

[lucid marsh]

I would make the time change to night, the background become a little more visible, and a large blood moon rise in the background similar to the pillar events

[worldly sparrow]

i'd just make the red tint in the fight more noticable as the fight moves on

[lavish condor]

A fanmade hollow knight boss that's based off nkg makes the colors change from red to blue as the boss's health depletes. A change in lighting when the phase changes could be cool

red > blue > orange > gray or something

[worldly sparrow]

yoo that sounds good

like if the tint of the fight just changed with the music changes

though actually imma just suggest smth else related to the fight first

[lavish condor]

there's bloodflare wings?

[lucid marsh]

er, maybe there aren't

[glass arch]

no

[worldly sparrow]

ok thoughts on this?
Make the Epiphany part from Stained, Brutal Calamity play earlier in the Scal fight
Currently, Scal's music changes at specific percentages, Starting with Grief until 50%, Lament until 30%, Epiphany until 1%, and Acceptance for the monologue after the fight. There is a problem with this. Grief currently plays until 50%, however it is quite short in length. Lament is slightly shorter, but Grief doesn't need half of the boss fight, especially considering that it takes up roughly a quarter of the track. Lament only being played for 20% of the fight makes sense, it's the shortest part of the track.
However, Epiphany playing only below 30% isn't great. Epiphany plays for nearly half of the entire track length, and yet only plays during 30% of the fight.
As a result, by the time you finish the fight, you've only heard about a third to half of Epiphany, compared to a large chunk of Grief and a massive amount of Lament that gets to play.
I do get why Epiphany plays at 30%; It's when the Brimstone Monsters appear, and something climactic should be for the latter part of the fight. However, that doesn't mean that the longest portion of the track should play for a mere third of the fight. Also, maybe to accomadate extra room for Lament, it could be moved to 75%. Grief doesn't need half the fight anyways.

[flint notch]

I agree that epiphany should last longer

[worldly sparrow]

mmkay imma post

[royal tapir]

Ehh

The issue with this is that judging their length purely based on health% is misleading

[worldly sparrow]

its not like the last third lasts that much longer

like, surely most people would have a good weapon for seekers and hearts

[lucid marsh]

the first third goes by fast, but the midlde third doesn't as much

[worldly sparrow]

which are the 2 things that make people spend significant time below there

[royal tapir]

imo an argument of "you'd have good weapons" is pretty moot for something like this

[worldly sparrow]

ok well yeah

but like it's not like the last third takes so much time that it makes a significant part of epiphany play

lament is short musically and grief has a large part of the fight allowing both to play like half or more on the average attempt

[royal tapir]

I think this is more of an issue of Epiphany being so long compared to the others than SCal's fight being too short

[worldly sparrow]

wait since when was i critiquing scal's fight length

[lucid marsh]

one thing I do know is that the second and third music phases just don't last long enough

[worldly sparrow]

but like even still, grief should not play till 50% lmao

[lucid marsh]

as in, the music often cuts out before it plays even a majority of the song

[royal tapir]

Grief is 3 minutes
Lament is 2.5 minutes
Epiphany is 4.5 minutes

[wide river]

And how long is Acceptance?

[worldly sparrow]

its like 2, maybe 1.5 minutes

[lucid marsh]

acceptance has a built in loop

its really only 45 seconds

ish

[royal tapir]

imo Acceptance is irrelevant because 1% never lasts longer than 20 seconds

[lucid marsh]

each phase should last at least until the song phase has played its main segments

1% is a fixed length

that said

idea

make acceptance keep playing after the fight ends

[worldly sparrow]

yeah, epiphany rarely gets to play most of the drop

[lucid marsh]

until it finishes

[worldly sparrow]

maybe because the buildup to said drop is too long and plays out in full

[lucid marsh]

same with lament if I'm not mistaken

[wide river]

So if we're going off of percentages
Grief would go until 70%, Lament would go until 45%, and Epiphany would last until 1%

[lucid marsh]

in my most recent fight, lament (I think) cut out in the middle of the drop

[worldly sparrow]

i mean that doesn't sound too too bad

but like, i wonder how that would go with the intended kt being 5 minutes

[lucid marsh]

I think you misworded that?

oh nvm

that said

lament should still be going when the brothers are spawned

lament should end when the brothers die

the brothers are spawned at 45% IIRC

[royal tapir]

The transition would better fit at 40

[worldly sparrow]

yeah i agree

40 is when scal enters phase 2

[flint notch]

i genuinely cant imagine brothers having epiphany

[lucid marsh]

sounds good then

yeah that's why epiphany should be right after the brothers

not right before

[flint notch]

yeah

[worldly sparrow]

if the brothers had epiphany they would have detailed attack patterns

because like

otherwise it'd be anticlimactic

[lucid marsh]

the later half of lament sounds climactic musically

[worldly sparrow]

yeah

[lucid marsh]

good for the brothers phase

[worldly sparrow]

thing is the later half of lament rarely plays that much

and it'd play for less if epiphany was moved to 40%

[hollow shell]

uhhh hm

The activity in SCal's fight increases as it progresses
The first 50% of her health bar is spent almost entirely vulnerable, at least in comparison to the latter 50%

"I should mention that percentages don't tell the full story" yeah exactly

(100% to >50% has an equal amount of bullet hells plus Sepulcher phase as 30% to >1% does, with the latter also having Monsters, significantly affecting your gameplay, and Seekers, for what they're worth)

[worldly sparrow]

yeah, fair

[small timber]

ok time for some more boss suggestions that will never reach 100 votes anyway

[worldly sparrow]

i should probably suggest my other scal related suggestion

[wide river]

I usually get Ceaseless Void to spawn from below, so I've seen the behavior in question a few times now

[worldly sparrow]

ok other scal related sugg:

Make the tint of the Scal fight change with the music
Currently, in the Scal fight there is a slight red tint present through the entire fight.
It really adds to the atmosphere of the fight, however it doesn't change once in the entire duration of the fight.
So, I was thinking that the tint should change with the music.
The tint could change to blue once Lament plays at 50% health, and again to orange at 30% health.
Having the tint change would certainly be more interesting than having it red the entire fight.

thoughts?

[small timber]

it don't really add "atmosphere" to the fight

in fact the entire reference is just that is the visual effect they decided to use for the Stained Brutal Calamity video

[worldly sparrow]

oh wait thats actually better reasoning

to make it change

[small timber]

there is really no aspect of the actual Scal fight that communicate that at any point she should change her colour theming from red

[worldly sparrow]

yeah ofc the attacks would still be red and all

[small timber]

no it really is not a better reasoning, it might be worse even

because it is pretty established that the songs are "non-cannon" to the calamity lore, let alone just the visual aspect the video decided to use

[worldly sparrow]

ok fair enough

[small timber]

which had been said about Roar of the Jungle Dragon multiple times to the point that it is in like, "Suggestion Don't" or "Frequently Suggest" at some point? Not sure

but yeah the tldr of the above is just: there is really nothing indicating that Scal should have change the tint from red at any point of the fight

Infernum does that mostly because they also don't give a fuck about music canonicality basically (eg: they turn Providence into a purely music fitting fight)

[wide river]

(The songs themselves are canon, it's usually just the random things in Dokuro's music videos that aren't)
(Like the random jumpscare in Unholy Ambush and stuff like that)

[small timber]

I am nearly 100% certain Roar of the Jungle Dragon's lyric is said to be non-canon, unless they did a 360 degree flip on that decision

[wide river]

It was made canon in the lore rewrite of February 2023

[worldly sparrow]

tis canon

[wide river]

Stained, Brutal Calamity is also canon with a certain interpretation

[small timber]

well then they did a 360 degree flip on that decision

[grim tusk]

Title is no longer canon, lyrics are canon again

[worldly sparrow]

right, cuz hes no longer a jungle dragon

[wide river]

Roar of the Rebirth Dragon

[lucid marsh]

Roar of the Resplendent Phoenix

[worldly sparrow]

roar of the auric dragon

[crude geode]

Roar

[frosty trellis]

Cry of the Guardian Pheonix

[dapper apex]

Me (dragon of rebirth) roar (I'm about to die)

[golden tulip]

we get: rotjd being canon again

you get: draedon teaser no longer being canon :(

neutral ending

[ripe owl]

Wait huh?

[golden tulip]

well yea

[dapper apex]

The voice is still canon I think so it's good

[golden tulip]

"sun goddess", "the serpent and its servants"

[ripe owl]

Oh, that

[golden tulip]

and admittedly i dont really know draedon's motivation anymore so that might be different too

[dapper apex]

I think this is still the same

[golden tulip]

ah

ok

[dapper apex]

Mfker loves to create war machines

[ripe owl]

Draedon Geneva convention gif

[lucid marsh]

Ngl creating war machines does sound fun, but I would never want to actually use them against people

Ever watched battlebots? Maybe draedon can be convinced to try endlessly pitting his machines against each other

[dapper apex]

Hey Draedon, have you ever heard of

WAR THUNDER IS THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE FREE-TO-PLAY, CROSS-PLATFORM, MMO MILITARY GAME FOR WINDOWS, LINUX, MAC, PLAYSTATION®4, PLAYSTATION®5, XBOX ONE AND XBOX SERIES X|S DEDICATED TO AVIATION, ARMOURED VEHICLES, AND NAVAL VESSELS FROM THE EARLY 20TH CENTURY TO THE MOST ADVANCED MODERN COMBAT UNITS. JOIN NOW

[odd geyser]

My friend plays it

[hollow shell]

hm

[cobalt pewter]

time to Get Gianni again

it's funny how often lore-based voiced content in calamity is quickly shifting between relevancy and irrelevancy lately due to the lote changes

[coral carbon]

WAIT

HUH?

[frail mantle]

what are you whating at

[hollow shell]

hey

[crude geode]

Almost tempted to not star it out of spite

[small timber]

it would get stucked in 👍 purgatory anyway

the devs had said many times they do want to rework auric soul artifact, just into what

and the current solution proposed by the suggestion is just.... not amazing
like tf is "dragon related summon", it is just current but slightly less restrictive but in reality don't matter at all because said "dragon related summon" have to be relevant post-Yharon
so in reality it is just kindle staff again

and the unique minion idea obviously will also lead to a lot of balance headache or is just straight up useless if it is not strong enough (because there are just not that many summoner weapon at post-Yharon tier)

[regal willow]

👍hell

[brazen minnow]

I've got yelled at for advertising plenty of times and now I know better.

[golden tulip]

well there are as you know many types of dragons (cue that dragon diagram) so it could be one of those

[bright crag]

Exo Mechanical Trio blueprints leaked on War Thunder reddit

About the suggestion that recently went to #suggestions-voting
Why...? You can just hoik through the door

[frail mantle]

Lebron James seen trying to escape Supreme With, Calamitas' arena

[sand marlin]

That was kinda the point, since you can already hoik inside or craft the temple key why not remove RoD prevention too
It's not super necessary obviously

[ashen warren]

What is the name of the chat where people test optimal setups? Is it this one?

[placid talon]

Mf made war machines in order to violate the Geneva convention more easily than ever

[sand marlin]

Optimal? You mean balanced?

https://discord.com/channels/225030931008847874/1042197406776827914

[bright crag]

Fair

But

Going with the key and hoik, you have to go through the entire Temple

[ashen warren]

I thought the people who made the progression guides linked in #help-advice-read-pins pins took advice from a chat where people tested optimal setups

[bright crag]

Using RoD, you can go steaight to the main chamber

[sand marlin]

Ig you can add some progression for accessibility there... with low little of it there is

[rugged juniper]

Plague engine and viper engine dont ignore walls??

[sand marlin]

It's the same thing but no they don't test optimal setups, that's an afterthought after using the fastest weapon on said boss on balanced gear, then for a meta guide changing that gear to be optimal towards making it an even faster kill while keeping some ease of usage

[jade plinth]

should add mlgs

[sand marlin]

Well it's not like optimal gear isn't also tested but mainly it's just balanced gear

[drowsy plank]

@craggy mica idk why no one flagged this but i am 99% sure this is a resprite dont

[crude geode]

Yeah pretty sure

[craggy mica]

oh alr

i trought it only meant for reworks

[crude geode]

Also it was posted 2 minutes ago cogni

[drowsy plank]

i just woke up u think i was gonna check the timestamp

[fervent orbit]

yes

[crude geode]

[craggy mica]

ok sorry about that

[drowsy plank]

anyway yeah no resprites based on poor quality which is literally what this is asking

it's fine

[fervent orbit]

also u didnt "just wake up"

[drowsy plank]

i guess you could go bother people in calart if you want something to happen

[fervent orbit]

uve been awake for atleast 17 minutes

[drowsy plank]

wow incredible

[fervent orbit]

honestly quite incredible

[crude geode]

Also out of everything I think event horizon is probably one of the more polished looking weapons?

Idk it might just be bias because funny touhou weapon

[craggy mica]

wait what

[wind rune]

I would like if viper engine would use both bullets and rockets

[random talon]

touhou?

touhou reference?

[crude geode]

[fervent orbit]

yes event horizon is, indeed, a touhou reference

[wind rune]

(Aka had 2 attack modes)

[craggy mica]

didnt know

[random talon]

what character/spell card does it reference?

[crude geode]

Marisa

Black Magic “Event Horizon”

[random talon]

epic

[fervent orbit]

marisa

of the same name (event horizon)

[random talon]

@craggy mica if you want the Event Horizon to be resprited, you can always have a go at submitting a resprite in the Calamity Art server!

[fervent orbit]

cog alr said that

[craggy mica]

yea i just read that but thanks anyways

[random talon]

oh

you're welcome anyways

[craggy mica]

i imagine reworks arent allowed right?

[crude geode]

Most of the time they are actually

[craggy mica]

weird

i remember once i putted a rouge slahs rework idea and they denied it

[sand marlin]

Suggesting to rework a weapon is allowed
Describing that rework yourself specifically is not

[craggy mica]

oh alr

[random talon]

@torpid comet Your suggestion violates the rule against joke suggestions, sorry

[sand marlin]

^

Well

It's not exactly a joke suggestion

[torpid comet]

ok i will try better nex time

[sand marlin]

But it's still an easy flag

[random talon]

[torpid comet]

is hypnos is joke boss?!

[random talon]

yea

he's not associated with Calamity

[torpid comet]

[sand marlin]

In the first place if it's not calamity mod then there's no point in making a sugg about it unless it's about crossmod compat

[buoyant idol]

About the sprite, #459252132068065280 message scroll down to see what that caused.

[craggy mica]

cant do it

i dont have acces to the link apparently

[fervent orbit]

join calart

[craggy mica]

ill do it later

[torpid comet]

does everyone have same bug with astrageldon after ubdate?
(its didnt dropped me 100% weapon and any coins)

[frosty trellis]

That's a catalyst thing not a calamity thing

[frosty trellis]

Also your suggestion is about unofficial fan content and cal does not support it

So it's a no

Cal can't do shit about hypno or geldon it's not their content

[torpid comet]

i have to talk about it in 'other mod talk'' ?

[frosty trellis]

Yeah this is for suggestions for the actual mod not fan content

[torpid comet]

welp now im not telling about sugesstions ah wait im in wrong chat sorry really

[frosty trellis]

It's alr just uh, your suggestion is still invalid

Probs best to remove it

[wintry gale]

dont ask the same question in multiple channels

[tiny minnow]

I think there should be more boss pets.

[drowsy plank]

download calamities vanitites

[modern rapids]

should night provi drop more divine geodes?
she drops both the aegis and wings so you only have to fight her once, but still not enough divine geodes for both full tarragon and an elderberry, so you still have to refight her eventually

[wide river]

Better rewards for greater challenge
Yeah I'd be fine with that

[versed fox]

I may just be an enjoyer of pain but I feel like I enjoy having to fight her again, it’s the feeling of needing xyz thing but said thing requires an effort instead of something like plague canisters which you just go to the jungle to commit genocide on plague monsters to get a few more, instead you actually have to go and refight the boss while it’s still a challenge

[drowsy plank]

fighting night provi twice is dumb

the whole point of the fight is to give a greater reward for a harder challenge

it sounds like you just dont know about night provi's fight

also what plague boss are you talking about because the important material (plague plating) doesnt drop from enemies, and profaned enemies have something just like plague canisters

very weird

[grave zinc]

@small timber - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make Necklace of Vexation Works When Exactly On 50% HP]

It has officially been implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[north oracle]

nice

[drowsy plank]

finally

[worldly sparrow]

yey

[lucid marsh]

Does necklace of vexation work with regenerator in that case

Like

Does regenerator make necklaces of vexation active at all times

[wide river]

It should yes

[versed fox]

I meant canister, the stuff you get from the regular plague enemies. Basically what I meant was instead of it being an easily farmable material, it’s something you have to actually struggle to get, and by having to fight them again for more of the resources. Mb for being kinda vague on my wording though. Also I didn’t know you were talking about night provi in particular, having to fight night provi is not fun for me

Oh my god yeah no I completely missed the entire part where someone mentioned night provi

Yeah nvm I was dumb there, and I agree yeah night provi should drop more

[north oracle]

you just pop a zerg potion and get a ton? it is easily farmable lol

[ripe owl]

After all these years

[golden sonnet]

@reef acorn this has already passed #suggestions-discussion message

[drowsy plank]

didnt this

yeah

[reef acorn]

ok

[versed fox]

Yeah that’s what I meant, there’s no challenge behind mats like that. But either way when I said all those things I had missed the original point of nighttime provi dropping more geodes which I agree with since they have more power at that time

[coral carbon]

[regal willow]

no punctuation... 🥲

[timid lodge]

I have an idea for a suggestion but it would be too much work

[mild igloo]

why doesn't the wiki have information on the profaned heart drop?

[sand marlin]

Wdym

[mild igloo]

searched the wiki for one of the providence drops called the "profaned heart" but it's not there

[sand marlin]

That's not a real drop though

[mild igloo]

but like it is

[sand marlin]

Calamity vanities

[ripe owl]

That's

[sand marlin]

It's from an addon

[ripe owl]

Yeah that's CalVal

That's not base Calamity

[mild igloo]

ohhh alr

[ripe owl]

The latest suggestion is... definitely something

[lucid marsh]

I feel bad for the guy but uh

[stable kiln]

I'm very sorry about your loss and about your friend but this is asking a bit much out of the mod

[lucid marsh]

Put it in an addon or something

[swift frigate]

This tbh

[sand marlin]

^

These requests are out of place, with all respects due

And by "these" I also refer to this as well

[lucid marsh]

If we had a reference to every good person who passed away we'd have billions of references

Even if we cut it down to the ones that are tangentially related or notable, that's still hundreds, at least

[north oracle]

This is not the channel to be asking about that

[ashen warren]

Which one is?

[north oracle]

#calamity-mod-talk or #help-advice-read-pins

[small timber]

I am also almost certain "supreme collection of ultimate class setups" is also not managed by calamity the mod, it is by the community

[north oracle]

Not the channel for talking about #suggestions-posting

[small timber]

tldr go to these 2 yes

[north oracle]

That’s correct

[ashen warren]

Yeah ik

[north oracle]

None of us are at all related to caldev

[ashen warren]

Thanks

[hollow shell]

Yeah

@signal cypress Really sorry for your loss, it's terrible to lose someone.
But, it's unlikely that the Calamity devs would add a tribute to him in the mod if he was just another player, someone not known personally by the devs and didn't have any significant presence in our community.

[small timber]

and also one very important concern is that: sadly if one of such tribute item are being added, to not make an exception the devs will likely have to add similar tribute items for any future similar cases, which is simply too much workload

[hollow shell]

Yeah. It's grim but Calamity is very popular, the most popular mod for Terraria which is already one of the best-selling video games,
and Calamity has been around for, what, 7 years now?
There are bound to be a lot of people who have played Calamity in the past who are now deceased.

[glossy dragon]

Question are we still not allowed to suggest items? I can't check the pins it crashes my discord.

[hollow shell]

It depends on how it gets suggested

You aren't allowed to do something like "New weapon idea: Shinobi's Katana. Deals 65 melee damage and has 9 usetime. Crafting using 6 Purified Gel and 9 Iron Bars"
That kind of suggestion is banned

But you could make a suggestion like "Add a new melee weapon obtainable from Slime God", as long as you provide sufficient reasoning for it

Suggestions should mainly be a description of a problem and how your idea would solve that problem

Any details or specifics about the suggestion's execution, that don't directly pertain to solving the problem, should not be included.

@glossy dragon

[glossy dragon]

Okay what if for example I wanted to suggest a new whip that's a reference to the threaded Cain from Bloodborne cause I thought that might be neat but I'm not sure where to suggest it in progression

Is that too specific?

[hollow shell]

mm Yeah no, just asking for something to be added to the mod because it's a reference to something from another game is not an acceptable reason

[glossy dragon]

Okay

Thnx for the help

[hollow shell]

(As for whips in Calamity as a whole, the devs will add a bunch of their own whips in a future update. They've just been taking care of other priorities first)

[hollow shell]

👍

[signal cypress]

Ik just thought id ask thanks though

[signal cypress]

Yeeah i figured

Thanks for the concern though

[random talon]

can't wait for the calamity whips

[pure whale]

why

[random talon]

bc Summoner is cool

I'd argue the whips help to make the class more mechanically diverse

[pure whale]

do you want whips to do funny giga whip stack gaming?

[random talon]

[pure whale]

then you are based my man

🤝

[random talon]

only problem is I suck at not dying

[wintry gale]

whip bonus should work like flasks tbh

[pure whale]

no

[wintry gale]

yes

this would help with whip balancing

[pure whale]

no, what's the point of removing the only way to enjoy class system in terraria

[wintry gale]

only way?

wdym

[regal willow]

me <-

[wintry gale]

i've never used whip stacking and im enjoying summoner very well

[pure whale]

like, whip stacking it's the only mechanic that make class really unique

[wintry gale]

i dont think so

[pure whale]

i am not a developer , but to balance whip stacking just reduce dmg of all minions frfr

[sand marlin]

Vanilla is highly likely killing whip stacking already

[pure whale]

how

[sand marlin]

#1042197406776827914 message

[pure whale]

leinfors
the man who said that pumpkin and frost moon intented to be beaten post-golem

also summon tag in calamity is multiplicative instead of addictive, so it's make balancing whips easier(?)

i think so

[grim tusk]

Whip stacking was a mistake and even Leinfors wanted it gone

[grim tusk]

(Already sort of does)

[grim tusk]

Whips do help a lot but theres even more stuff to diversify with summoner.

[grim tusk]

Indeed, lemme get the belladona clip

[fervent orbit]

which belladona clip?

[grim tusk]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/699705675965661324/978800677549662218/Belladonna-1.mp4

[fervent orbit]

oh yea that one

[grim tusk]

The most problematic summons have been getting reworked thankfully

[fervent orbit]

gotta love plaguebringer giving 10-20 flat damage

[ripe owl]

The gold of the Calamity mod

[grim tusk]

Idk why people argue in favor of flat tag

Shit is unbalanced as fuck and does not benefit minions equally

Thus why firecracker is used on lategame due to being the only dmg multiplier

[pure whale]

bleh, no real fun in terraria anymore

[grim tusk]

Altho its fucking dumb due to being x2.35

[fervent orbit]

not anymore thankfully, kalei is slighhtly better

[random talon]

I wanna see some speedkills with other classes

[fervent orbit]

actually idk why im saying thankfully, a post golem whip being used on yharon and shaving off over a minute is stupid

[grim tusk]

Big tag and crit

[random talon]

I really don't understand why stacking is so bad, just nerf the damage and summon tag damage and leave the buffs out of it

[sand marlin]

That would make single whip usage worse

[fervent orbit]

if you do that you nerf non stacking, which is wat the casual playerbase does

[golden tulip]

i am very excited to see what the duke, ml and stardust whip will be like

[sand marlin]

Whip stacking is definitely an interesting mechanic but as it stands it's too overpowered and is easy to perform

[random talon]

Hey, do other classes have similar results in speedkilling?

[sand marlin]

And they can't be bothered to tone it down some other way unfortunately

[grim tusk]

In vanilla:
No lmao

In Cal:
(True) melee, Stealth Rogue (synergy abuse), Mage (astral injection abuse) and occasionally ranger if played aggressively enough

[random talon]

so we're not nerfing those but nerfing the everloving hell out of summoner

[grim tusk]

Indeed

[glass arch]

oh no we are nerfing those too

[wintry gale]

i mean
the speed bonus
specifically the speed bonus and some unique habilities like the snowflake from coolwhip and explosion from firecracker

[fervent orbit]

i mean

[grim tusk]

Summoner gets fucking ~2 minutes under the intended killtime

[glass arch]

rogue has been getting a shit ton of nerfs recently

[grim tusk]

Those classes struggle

Except rogue but I’ve been hitting it

[pure whale]

ooa drops are balanced

[fervent orbit]

true melee and astral injections/chaos stone are extremely risky and stealth rogue shenanigans requires much more knowledge than "let me time my whips"

[grim tusk]

Aerial bane moment

[sand marlin]

This is in testing gear yes?

[wintry gale]

can any other class do vulnerability abuse like summoner?

[glass arch]

p sure

[fervent orbit]

no it uses pb

[grim tusk]

Rogue to an extent

[fervent orbit]

could also be using sstn i dont remember tho

[glass arch]

summoner is too easy to get batshit results

[grim tusk]

^

[glass arch]

like

[pure whale]

waiting for adrenaline is hard? weak selfharm is hard(not including that all fucking calamity mage set bonuses has healing effect)? waiting 2-4 seconds is hard?

[glass arch]

even a defensive summoner build is getting close to kt

[grim tusk]

Rogue has to find synnergies and abuse mechanics and patterns

Summoner just uses whips and thats it. And if it wants to shred more it uses sentries too

[sand marlin]

Guh, I just remembered I'll have to test the last 3 classes on Inf Polter too
That'll be A Thing

[fervent orbit]

you can call adrenaline for anything

[ashen warren]

summoner is basically using three weapons at the same time

[glass arch]

mage is risky just in general

[grim tusk]

“don't let this distract you from the fact that aerial bane's +50% damage bonus applies to enemies on platforms”

[fervent orbit]

also the selfharm isnt weak, its actually quite strong (kinda proves how uve never used it), and the rogue stuff is, again, shenanigans

[sand marlin]

It can also just use any support weapon without drawbacks

[fervent orbit]

which requires you to know shenanigans

which i also doubt you know them all

or a random player to

whipstacking however is easy as fuck

not doing it perfectly still gives u a large increase in damage

[glass arch]

as someone who plays almost exclusively mage it is extremely squishy

[sand marlin]

Me when my sharkrons crit for 1k

[ashen warren]

shhhhhh don't tell them our secrets

[wintry gale]

i beated infernum for the first time with rogue and yeah
it is very relatable
kill scal with pan was funny btw

[random talon]

so what you gonna do? Make summon penalty apply to whips as well?

[grim tusk]

Cal IL edited this out

[random talon]

[fervent orbit]

no

[ashen warren]

i know but thats no reason to let red hear

[glass arch]

cal explicitly got rid of that didnt it

[sand marlin]

No they'll just nerf summons and nerf whips to make them into a balanced state since both are really strong already and combined break things

[random talon]

sorry, I'm getting riled up

[fervent orbit]

summon penalty got nerfed

from 50 to 25

like a while back now

[random talon]

this may make cross-mod compatibility a bit broken

[sand marlin]

Well cal already changes a lot of vanilla things, it's not a drastic change anyway

[ashen warren]

cross mod compatibility isn't really on their minds

[sand marlin]

Such a drastic change would be early hardmode progression rework

[fervent orbit]

cross mod BALANCE isnt on our minds

[sand marlin]

^

[fervent orbit]

important to make that distinction

[random talon]

I got an idea

[sand marlin]

It's funny thinking about how cal and eternity both nerf some things in different ways so when you use them together they become shit

Whips for sure

[random talon]

if you play summoner, all bosses get +200% HP

[glass arch]

implying mixing cal and emode on its own is a good idea

[random talon]

problem solved

[sand marlin]

I didn't say good

I said funny

[grim tusk]

Goozma actually has a fat resist against summoner specifically

[fervent orbit]

🤯

thats hilarious

[grim tusk]

Mostly sentries but minions have a general resist

[pure whale]

emode zenith nerf

[sand marlin]

[glass arch]

endgame summoner is hilarious

[sand marlin]

Ok yeah we're getting off topic

[grim tusk]

Emode Rev Golem

[random talon]

another idea: whips make your summons do less damage

[hushed scarab]

why 😭 ???

[random talon]

bc they want summoner nerfed

[pure whale]

what's the point of whips then

like

[random talon]

idk

[pure whale]

[hushed scarab]

whats the fuckin point to having a whip then

[random talon]

I'm just going with the mob

[hushed scarab]

summoner is fine as it is, it has weak defense anyway.

i think its a fine tradeoff

[grim tusk]

Summoner just needs whips to not be batshit insane

[hushed scarab]

high attack, low defense

[random talon]

yea, I get killed in 3 hits by AS

[hushed scarab]

exactly

[random talon]

*AD

[sand marlin]

(And summons when used together

[pure whale]

calamity players still thinks that difference in defense of helmets is important

[sand marlin]

Not because of the synergy, just because of the fact that summons were balanced as standalones

[grim tusk]

Accessories is where the tanking is after all

[random talon]

THEN JUST NERF SUMMON DAMAGE A BIT

[pure whale]

another idea: make whip class

[hushed scarab]

whip only

[random talon]

done

[sand marlin]

That's pretty much what's happening lol

[grim tusk]

If whips were their own class then i’d 100% be in with whip stack; unfortunately they are not

[grim tusk]

“A bit”

[random talon]

also lock the Terraprisma back behind Daytime EoL, that change was bs

[grim tusk]

Summoner will face its reckoning

[hushed scarab]

summoner players after the update

[random talon]

huh, it's almost like no one wants to play a class that gives terrible results!

[hushed scarab]

???

its not that bad

ive done a couple summoner runs

[pure whale]

tprisma fairly nerfed in calamity, imo giving rewards for killing enraged bosses is bullshit

[random talon]

if whips were nerfed to hell and back, why not play melee and get a similar playstyle and more defense

fairly?

it still shreds

EVERYTHING

[hushed scarab]

melee gets boring

[random talon]

all it does is cheapen the weapon as a whole

[hushed scarab]

do you play games just to finish them. or do you play them to experience something new

[pure whale]

similar playstyle
hold lmb because all fucking projectile melee weaps are not even requires aiming

[random talon]

same with whips

[hushed scarab]

do you read a book just to finish it. or do you read it to see the story and characters the author has built

[random talon]

...

you're right

I'm fighting against my own reflection at this point

I should stop and catch my breath

[hushed scarab]

bro is having a character moment

[random talon]

At this point, idk what I was even arguing for

[random talon]

ye

[hushed scarab]

something abt whips

idk

im gonna go play summoner now

[random talon]

I have a summoner playthrough featuring a bunch of extra mods

some of the whips are cool and balanced, then there's Coiled Serpent

[glass arch]

based as fuck

[wintry gale]

there are people

[craggy mica]

damn thats cold💀

[drowsy plank]

not really

i mean we dont know the guy and there are lots of people who play terraria who are, well, no longer with us
ignoring the fact the devs don't take item requests there isn't even anything really layed out here so im unsure what the plan would've even been

[craggy mica]

yea but idk, first time i see a suggestion like that

also what the hell does 🗜️ mean?

[drowsy plank]

not formatted correctly

[glass arch]

incorrect formatting

[craggy mica]

oh ok

[bright crag]

As if multiplicative didn't have problems :p

[grim tusk]

Both have issues

[bright crag]

Yeah, which is why I don't think either should be treated as shit or as the ultimate solution

[grim tusk]

Imo multiplicative is better as every minion benefits equally from it

Instead of having shit like vanilla blade staff which deals extremely low dmg but becomes batshit insane with whips

Flat tag barely does anything for stuff like Stardust Dragon and Desert Tiger; so much so that people often prefer to use Firecracker with them.
Kaleidoscope is good with those due to the crit being multiplicative

[pine star]

I feel like the solution is to take the well-temperament approach

namely:
adjust each whip in an ad-hoc way to make things work right

if it worked for piano tuning, it should work in a game, right??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_temperament

[ashen warren]

not entirely true, some minions can be made to benefit less iirc

[bright crag]

Imo we can't rely solely on one and it's best to start with flat and transition to multiplicative

Yes, flat favors faster minions, but usually the "broken OP" is from the minion behavior, not the whip
And vanilla has multiplicative whips to counterbalance this tendency

Multiplicative does have a better appearance but it favors weapons with higher damage (later in progression and/or slower)

So, no, minions don't benefit equally from multi

In fact multi is shit in the early game compared to late game

To the point where, even if you kept the whip multiplicative factor as the exact same number throughout progression, you'd still have a noticeable increase in whip power/contribution

[pine star]

dumb idea:
floating-point damage numbers

[bright crag]

So the fate of "all multiplicative" balance is to make slower summons better, and make whip contribution very powercrept

(Since I doubt anyone would want decreasing multipliers)

[random talon]

just logged in and saw you spittin straight facts

like, honestly, that's the best idea regarding whip balancing

[halcyon zealot]

by definition ignoring rounding, they should

[pine star]

That’s why I mentioned floating point damage numbers

[ashen warren]

#suggestions-posting message deep

[bright crag]

You act like vanilla whip balance is out of the rails, but your biggest evidences are

• A questionable summon that most likely isn't as busted as you claim
• A whip with a multiplicative bonus

So idk what your problem with vanilla balance is besides an admittedly bad tendency that is counterbalanced by some whips having other effects

[glass arch]

every system for whip tag has its downfall

[drowsy plank]

remove whip tag

[glass arch]

honestly

i wouldnt be opposed to that considering

well

thats what it was before and whips werent doing

[sand marlin]

Make whip tag good

[glass arch]

this

[bright crag]

True, but what counts is the performance

Removing whip tag isn't an option imo
It means removing the core identity of whips

[ashen warren]

whips needs to work with your summons, otherwise it's just a subclass

[bright crag]

Being swung, active support weapons which boost minions and build upon Summoner's mid-range aspect

[drowsy plank]

honestly whips as a bonus damage tool and flask applicator already feels pretty strong even without tag, though i was joking, but honestly i could entirely see whips being around without tag, but still redirecting your minions to target that part as they do already

but that would be like. absolute worse case scenario

[glass arch]

its definitely not a good option but its not one i would necessarily be opposed to either

[sand marlin]

I've considered using whips without tag, in the optimal scenario it's just not worth it getting mediocre bonus DPS and the flask effect isn't better than other support weapons you can be using

[drowsy plank]

i see

golden gun

[sand marlin]

With things like Lunic Eye/Eye of Magnus and Yanmei's Knife why would you be using a whip that only does some okay dps and the flask effect which is usually crumbling that is much inferior to marked for death
Ichor would be much stronger with low base damage summons but that's a whole another rabbit hole

Even Aestheticus is much better than I gave it credit for before, it's not just a slow but also DoT

And other cal actives like slime puppet end up straight up better than whips

Again, without tag

With tag Idk that's pretty new

[pine star]

even the well-temperament method?

some minions get additive, some get multiplicative

how is this decided?

the ad-hoc method!

[lucid marsh]

Against anything not immune to it, the eye of Magnus is basically equal to the kaleidoscope, but easier to hit things with (in my experience)

[sand marlin]

Whar

[random talon]

ehh, I found things could be hit easier with the whip

that might've been bc I was using a mod that added some new armors, one of them improving whip and minion stats

[sand marlin]

Yeah let's not drag unofficial content into this

Just keep it at base level

[random talon]

even without the 3rd party content, the whips still have a better way of hitting things

[sand marlin]

Lunic Eye and Eye of Magnus are pretty much hitscan

Whips at close enough range can be the same

[random talon]

really, I found the Eye of Magnus to not home in well enough

[sand marlin]

Especially with whip range bonuses

[sand marlin]

It doesn't need to hit every shot, even hitting half of it is dozens better than it needs to be

[random talon]

Or I could be using it wrong

I mean, my dumbass tried using the Galaxia as my primary weapon against Yharon

[sand marlin]

It inflicts Marked for Death for eight seconds jesus christ I thought it was five before

[random talon]

it worked decent, but there were better

the sword, not the eye

[sand marlin]

I just looked at the wiki and eight seconds is such a huge uptime to do something else like keeping staff tag on from a distance or using Yanmei's Knife for extra meltage

Hell this means you can still tap whip once in a while

Though if you have a better active like slime puppets it's always better to just use that

Late game that means decapitated duke head

Whatever the sentry is called

[random talon]

honestly, these "disposable minions" are a cool alternative to whips

that's just what I call them

[wide river]

Cadaverous Carrion or smth

[sand marlin]

Yeah, I remember that first and foremost from that one sentry only run

[random talon]

yea

I'm rewatching it today

made me realize how many sentires the game needs

I plan to add a few

[lucid marsh]

Shoot gun constantly for big DPS better than hit whip occasionally for bigger dps

[wide river]

I wouldn't say the Eye of Magnus has "big DPS", myself

[lucid marsh]

I mean the DPS you get from the debuff combined with your minions

Against yharon, for example, Eye of Magnus hitting constantly boosts dps by more than kaleidoscope, mainly as a result of not being able to hit with kaleidoscope consistently

[north oracle]

wait you can’t hit with Kaleidoscope consistently

[lucid marsh]

Boss go fast, if I go close to boss I get pelted with fireballs and die

[random pasture]

Make every whip individually calculate its summon tag amount and type for every single summon weapon to ensure everything is perfectly balanced

There are no flaws with this idea

[wide river]

The weapons should just dynamically update their stats to accommodate for the player's playstyle

Every copy of Calamity is personalized

[north oracle]

nah, it's easier for the boss to dynamically adjust it's hp as the fight progresses. that'll keep everything balanced

[wide river]

True!

Actually isn't this RDR but worse

[north oracle]

yes

[frosty trellis]

As someone who plays Yharon very aggressively especially with shit like Event Horizon
Skill issue

[north oracle]

[royal tapir]

This guy

[deft yew]

Will totally not end up like how AI draws fingers

[lucid marsh]

Oh definitely, but I generally take reliable or safer options over higher skill ones

[frosty trellis]

I mean fair enough

[lucid marsh]

Getting something like 10% more damage and living is better than 30% and dying

[wintry gale]

Nohit:

[random talon]

balancing the game around a challenge... hmmmmmmm

well, not quite a challenge, but still

[brazen minnow]

hi

[random talon]

hi

[buoyant idol]

Hello there

[random talon]

we should be talking about the suggestion, but

there's not much to talk about

it's a good suggestion

but there's not much reason to say no

it just warrants the response of "okay"

[wide river]

I wonder if bringing up vanilla's change to the Wormhole Potion recipe would be a good idea...

Since it was changed to yield 3 potions per fish

[small timber]

Should be worth mentioning yeah

[wide river]

In any case, I like the idea. Hope it passes

[small timber]

Ok done

Hopefully this do better than the boss suggestions (which as expected is below 100 votes))

(that said let me just post 1 more)

[glass arch]

for a second there i thought the spore and potion crafting sugg were the same thing and was thinking "oh he did a vergil gif moment but with plantera instead"

[random talon]

vergil gif?

[wintry gale]

just realized there was a third shield-thing that cant be dyed
should've suggested this alongside with rover/sponge

[glass arch]

#suggestions-voting message

just a

random vergil gif

[golden tulip]

one line in the first paragraph about the potions makes no sense

"not having potions can generally be considered a disadvantage (rather than an advantage)"

when is not having potions an advantage

[left hawk]

I'm assuming it means that rather than having potions giving you an advantage, not having them is a disadvantage

They sound like the same thing but I'm pretty sure it's talking relative to the balancing point, rather than the difficulty designed to be beaten with no potions and having potions giving you an edge, instead the difficulty is designed around you always being fully buffed, so not having potions results in it being even harder than intended

Assuming I'm correct, a simple way to reword that could be "not having potions can generally be considered a disadvantage (rather than having them being an advantage)"

[worldly sparrow]

honestly balancing the game, especially the earlier bosses around being fully buffed is quite bad imo

[golden sonnet]

It isn't

I'm pretty sure devs have stated balance is around potionless

[worldly sparrow]

actually yeah you got me on that

[golden sonnet]

Yep

#calamity-update-talk message

[worldly sparrow]

yeah i found that message too

[golden sonnet]

Yeah, remembered it being said just had to find

[left hawk]

Interesting, hadn't seen that before

[worldly sparrow]

but like, potions do have an influence on balance, even if it is balanced around potionless

[sand marlin]

I'm thinking of suggesting buff rack to not interfere with clicks if it's not considered a bug already

Now I just need the wall of text for it so the sugg doesn't die from lacking sustenance

[wide river]

Then it dies from people not reading it

[wintry gale]

game more challenging = game less boring

[fervent orbit]

they all use the same "shield" mechanic

so if one gets changed they all will

[wintry gale]

oh

nice

[ashen warren]

p much, though i could see a case where perhaps, psc is an exception to that

[fervent orbit]

i thought that said psa would be an exception and i wass just "i dont see why it should"
then i realised it said psc

[ashen warren]

[fervent orbit]

look im incapable of reading

[wintry gale]

Took me 20 seconds to realize

[buoyant idol]

Wait, wouldn't this mean that balance suggestions have been doing it wrong?

[sand marlin]

Plantera's spore is my number one nemesis in vanilla ftw funny enough

[fervent orbit]

wdym?

[buoyant idol]

Don't they use potions when balancing despite Calamity not being balanced with potions in mind?

[fervent orbit]

it was balanced with when you could obtain the potions from npcs

so rage/wrath would be post qb cuz u couldve bought it from witch doctor en masse

[buoyant idol]

Makes sense, will weapons be rebalanced now that potions aren't accounted for?

[fervent orbit]

just realised i didnt continue this but

(i got distracted)

but rage/wrath is post skele now

because thats when u can get them en masse now

also, stations are used when avaible, food is t2 in pre boss and t3 in post evil 1

and fire and poison flasks are used

@buoyant idol unsure if uve seen because u havent responded

[buoyant idol]

Ah, sorry, pings are completely fine. Interesting balancing, makes sense though.

[brazen minnow]

What is the minimum votes this week for a suggestion to get sent to the dev server?

[ashen warren]

7

[wide river]

There's not really a "minimum", per se

If it's in the top 20%, then it will be sent

As for what the top 20% consists of vote-wise, I'm not sure

Haven't been counting it much these past few batches

[brazen minnow]

Well does anyone know?

[golden sonnet]

you can always check yourself, or you will know when the results come in

Knowing ahead of time doesn't really help in any way

[north oracle]

Last batch was 97
(I know because my miracle matter sugg had 96 )

[wide river]

If this is going to lead into "ok go vote for my suggestion so it's in the top 20%" istg

[royal tapir]

Technically true

[novel belfry]

My absorber upgrade sugg has 100+ votes

[small timber]

absorber suggestion is not a boss suggestion

[novel belfry]

H

[wintry gale]

The Drainage

[dense ferry]

I don't think the Absorber should get an upgrade AT ALL

It's fine going just to Post LC, that's A LOT of value you get from it regardless

[wide river]

Me when the accessory can't be used throughout the entire game
In a more serious tone, Absorber is plenty useful far later than you get it

[small timber]

but you see, what if

[drowsy plank]

shadowspec tier upgrade

[small timber]

Absorber combines with Core of the Blood God/Chalice of the Blood God

at Auric tier

to combine into the SUPER OMEGA ULTRA HEALING POTION accessory

[dense ferry]

We have a much more interesting mechanic for it

[small timber]

that we surely 100% will need in order to beat Normal Mode Scal

[dense ferry]

But if you ask

I feel like they will make for a phenomenal synergy

[small timber]

(tbh Purity is kind of an expansion on Absorber + Core of the Blood God kind of concept)

[dense ferry]

That would become literally just the best accessory in the Mod easily if we combined both

[wide river]

...Chalice?

[small timber]

but yeah
it is definitely overkill in defense, but there can always be argued "why does this accessory that upgrades all throughout the game from pre-HM all the way to Post-Cultist through multiple steps that spread evenly over the progression, suddenly just stops"

and there is always option in outright buffing the damage the bosses do, not necessarily just nerfing defenses
or to introduce anti-tank mechanic like moon dealing debu--

[dense ferry]

I just think the Absorber doesn't need an upgrade

It can last all the way to DoG

And after that you have Sponge, Rampart and Purity for Defense

Adding ANOTHER tanking item there would just be ridiculous

And if you are really running full tank, you are still going to be using Absorber anyways

[wide river]

Not to mention Core of the Blood God

[dense ferry]

Also that yeah

Too many accessories for tanking

Honestly right now playing Tank is just

Better

It's stronger and a load of fun

We need to make damage loadouts catchup in terms of fun, at least

[wide river]

...Definitely doesn't help that nearly all damage accessories are like 15% damage plus some minor effect, really

[small timber]

I will be honest while this might not be ideal from dev's perspective

that tldr of these "combined accessories" pretty much boils down to the player want their effort to be rewarded at the end

as poor as auric tesla armor maybe, there is a satisfaction in combining all items that you collected throughout your journey with none wasted

absorber is such an item, it takes complicated recipe and at the end it ending at post-Cultist just feels abit abrupt, it is good enough for post-ML but not really (compare to other defensive stuff, because well, it is pots-Cultist)

tldr: I grinded for that item, I want that effort to be recognized and rewarded

[novel belfry]

that's... pretty much why i want a final upgrade

[small timber]

but yeah, tbh in my opinion, I would rather:

have complicated combined accessories that provides absurd power to allow you to fight absurd bosses
than
low powered accessories to fight bosses at low power
(not quite soul of eternity level, which is to the point of just stats because its effect is just so varied and overwhelming, but you get the idea)

[novel belfry]

sure, Absorber's rework is substantially good enough that its good for pretty much Post-ML...

[small timber]

especially that the damage the bosses deal is much more adjustable than their tankiness (since tankiness is related to fight time and weapon balancing), and it is much easier to adjust individual non-offensive accessories in their power due to having no impact on the fight time

[novel belfry]

but it feels weird to have it just end off at post-Cultist

[glass arch]

plenty of things just end

its fine for that to happen

massive crafting trees going from one end of progression to the next are fun and all but it gets very tiring when thats everything

[novel belfry]

i think the absorber deserves one tho

its pretty good

[deft yew]

Like The Mandalorian

[wintry gale]

Calamity mod

[buoyant idol]

At least Void of Extinction is getting one (please be charge up brimstone explosion)

[craggy mica]

what is the, lets say average voting of a suggestion? like the number of ⭐ it gets?

[north oracle]

changes every week

the average last week was about 60-70 it seemed

[craggy mica]

i mean a score that if a suggeestion is liked or not

for example if my suggestion was posted yesterday and it got 43 votes, does that mean its a popular siggestion or not

[buoyant idol]

I'd say being patient is the only way to tell.

[small timber]

there is no score or standard

[craggy mica]

alr

[small timber]

because it can be as simple as "some people who would like your suggestion is not online at the time"

[craggy mica]

fair enough

or just doesnt use the channel

[small timber]

basically, or check the channel weekly instead of daily

[craggy mica]

and the time for a response varies between suggestions right?

cuz of debate and things like that

[wide river]

Yes, depending on the suggestion, it'll take longer or shorter to get a response back

[small timber]

usually people who vote dont debate here

(because the debate is finished before entering #suggestions-voting )

[craggy mica]

alr thanks

[brazen minnow]

Mine was posted on September 10th and it has 131 star votes. Is that a lot? I looked at suggestions around mine and it is far higher than almost every single one. I would assume it is an extremely popular suggestion. It is also the first time a suggestion of mine has gotten more than around 90 votes.

[craggy mica]

idk

[fleet flume]

130 is a lot. Usually they get around 70-100 votes

[brazen minnow]

Wow, that is... really good. I didn't know that the community wanted the implementation of an astral biome mimic this much... My main worry is that the devs will reject it because the scope may be a little too big.
And goodnight I can't reply anymore after about a minute after I post this

[frosty trellis]

(Can confirm, resetting defense damage is really, really fucking good)

[lucid marsh]

Why the fuck do the magma skull and molten charm both exist

But in calamity one of them gets a defense buff and the other doesn't

It's weird enough that vanilla has both of those items

But just as bad that calamity doesn't buff both of them

[sand marlin]

They are there so you don't have to wait for waders just for their effects to be combined

They hold no significance otherwise

[small timber]

and also because vanilla getting lava charm is god awful

so what you mean is obsidian skull should not give defense to maintain consistency

🤔

[small timber]

@blazing trout there are a lot of people who, in fact, want the exact opposite

they want weapons to not convert all ammo to the same
aka: they want more weapons to only convert basic ammo (musket ball etc) because they want more weapons to be able to actually use ammo property

[hollow shell]

Yeah I'm kinda confused by this suggestion.
Does this mean you would have to take the Musket Balls/Wooden Arrows entirely out of your inventory in order to use other ammo types with converter weapons?

[blazing trout]

oh wait in ym head this suggetion made a lot more sense

[small timber]

I think what they want is either:

1. convert weapon convert all ammo (instead of just musketball), OR
2. convert weapon automatically use musketball

but both basically just means convert weapon cannot use ammo at all

[hollow shell]

I think there were suggestions in the past that were like
"Allow players to set which ammo to use for each weapon"
So just switching to the weapon would also switch the ammo you're using to the one you want for that specific weapon

(Though that'd be a bit more of a complex system and sounds more like something that'd be part of a separate mod)

[small timber]

I think the main concern is just technical feasibility yeah

[ashen warren]

I mean checking it code wise wouldn't be that hard it just

Sounds annoying as a player

[ashen warren]

It implies this which would be :/

[blazing trout]

wait no it does make sense never mind. Ok so to use this screenshot as reference. Caustibow should use the wooden arrows wherever they are in your inventory. And aedelus shoukld sue the napalm arrows.

[hollow shell]

What if you wanted to use Napalm Arrows with Caustibow?

[ashen warren]

This just seems confusing

[blazing trout]

then put wooden arrows away

[hollow shell]

That is significantly more annoying than just switching the two ammos within your inventory

[ashen warren]

There isn't any reason why weapons should use different ammos based on if they convert stuff as opposed to just, all using the first one

^

[small timber]

yeah

a very valid reason will be if the weapon is straight useless without using its convert, such as caustibow or The Storm

which I think if that is the case, it will be better to suggests making these specific weapon to always convert (or always use wooden arrow), rather than all of the convert weapons

[ashen warren]

Agreed

[hollow shell]

hm

[ashen warren]

I'd say make them always convert if they're completely ass without doing that

[hollow shell]

((I have not used Caustibow so I cannot comment on whether or not it's utterly useless with non-Wooden arrows))

[ashen warren]

I believe a lot of it's damage is from a debuff or smth? Not used it either lo

[small timber]

caustibow is a super strong bow that applies a strong debuff, and have infinite piercing ability (?) + firing a high damage per hit but short range projectile if you use convert

if you dont use convert it is a literal wooden bow

[ashen warren]

Ye that begs the question why does the convert exist

Or rather

Why does the option to not convert exist

[small timber]

something something shellshooter, but yeah

[hollow shell]

Resisting the urge to get into inherent problems with the ranger class

[ashen warren]

Ye ammo is funny

[blazing trout]

ok yes that IS true BUT correct me if im wrong, there arent many instances where its better to use other ammo on a weapon that converts, espeically not in the same fight.

[small timber]

the only advantage of it using arrow is just so it can benefit from quiver/arrow type accessory (instead of like being treated as a different subclass)

[ashen warren]

Personally I prefer weapons that take any ammo and fully convert stuff

Else they all kinda feel samey as they're firing holy arrows

[small timber]

that I think is fine, easier to balance, but there are a lot of cases where a weapon could had benefited from non-convert effect but because it always force convert there is no build option

[hollow shell]

What precedent is there for weapons which only convert basic ammos versus those which convert all ammos?
I was under the impression that the former was always desirable for the purpose of choice

How many instances of all-converts are there

[small timber]

eg: auralis might had been interesting if it is not forced convert (with the ultrakill ammo, I forgot the name)

[ashen warren]

Clockwork as an example but that doesn't use typical arrows code wise so isn't really possible to not convert

[small timber]

but yeah tldr is: all convert, all non-convert, both are probably valid opinion depend on what they want
though for weapon like caustibow that is just useless without convert I will say should always convert

[hollow shell]

Telluric Glare seems to convert everything as well

[ashen warren]

The conversion with a choice is only really possible for bows that spawn arrows and not much more with them

[hollow shell]

Heavenly Gale converts all

Okay so there's a decent amount of em

[small timber]

conversion is currently mostly really only worth it in 2 special scenario:

marksman round and like hyperius etc (rare case), but mainly marksman

[ashen warren]

Is that the round that lets any gun hit minos coins

[small timber]

and also make it easier to balance because if it only convert wooden arrow it means only wooden arrow need to be considered when balancing (instead of full convert which you always have to take consideration highest base damage arrow at the time)

but yeah that can be solved by making it always take wooden arrow instead of always convert

[small timber]

yes, the funni midas prime ammo

[ashen warren]

I mean that is super negligible, you just need to use a different ammo

[ashen warren]

This seems needlessly overcomplicated

[ashen warren]

I won't really pretend to know the reasoning for that existing, kinda ruins the point of the two weapons gimmick by having any gun be able to use them imo

[hollow shell]

You speak the true true

[small timber]

it is not really negligible, the difference in ammo damage makes a weapon's dps spike surprisingly high even for convert
but yeah currently most of the case is just all the "all convert" weapon is always used with the highest base damage ammo on tier already

[ashen warren]

I meant in terms of effort

Ye it'd make everything stronger

But you'd just need to change the ammo when balancing them, not much else

[small timber]

I also don't know why it exist, people just really like ultrakill I guess
there are numerous times (as in, a lot) that people ask for titanium railgun to work with midas prime

my guess is marksman round is basically their response to it

[ashen warren]

The answer that should've just been "no"

[sand marlin]

there are numerous times (as in, a lot) that people ask for titanium railgun to work with midas prime

[small timber]

(yes it should had been just a "no")

[ashen warren]

Ah well

I don't think that's really sufficient reason against suggesting that conversion weapons convert every ammo

[small timber]

at least marksman round make sniper rifle (the post-Plantera one) kill cultist in like 1 min

and uhhh

[ashen warren]

There's still a good amount of non conversion ones you could use the marksman ammo with

[small timber]

makes anti-material rifle kill yharon 30 seconds faster while taking significantly more effort

[sand marlin]

Titanium Railgun is cool as hell it don't need no ultrakill reference lol

[ashen warren]

Assuming it now deals more damage than a pea, ye (I haven't used it since its initial release)

[bright crag]

All weapons can use the bullet, but it doesn't given those weapons the coins
So you still have to use Crackshot or Midas Prime

[small timber]

there surprisingly is not a lot
marksman round is pretty much only worth it on sniper rifle (with Daawnlight Spirit Origin)
there is, unironically, not a single non-convert sniper rifle from the post-Plantera "sniper rifle" all the way to anti-material rifle

[ashen warren]

Ye ik, but they're still utilizing the gimmick

[sand marlin]

You charge it up and release to do big damage with a beam but it's hard to aim

[small timber]

I counted it because I wanted to see how broken marksman round can be, only to realise there is not a single weapon you can use it on

[ashen warren]

Most of vanilla's dont convert I think? Although cals weapons probably outclass most of those

[sand marlin]

#calamity-addon-talk message

[ashen warren]

But eh I don't really think a single ammo type should be a solid no for that suggestion to exist

[small timber]

marksman round get a gigantic power spike at post-ML with Daawnlight Spirit Origin, just there is no weapon to use it on
for anti-material rifle and tyranny's end, those 2 weapons is just 100% rely on their convert bullet swarm effect

[bright crag]

Vanilla has few unique arrow bows, doesn't it
Marrow, Hellwing Bow, Ice Bow
All of the ones I remember convert only wooden

[small timber]

the fact that anti-material rifle still manage to get 30 seconds faster than the musket ball convert should put a good idea on how good marksman round is

[ashen warren]

I don't think there's a single gun tbh

[small timber]

(tyranny's end not quite though, ignore all defense is way too strong for marksman to compete)

[ashen warren]

Like maybe phoenix blaster??

[bright crag]

Nah

Doesn't Sniper Rifle convert into high velocity bullets?

[ashen warren]

Well that's just balancing stuff

[small timber]

tyranny's end + marksman is somehow better than musketball convert on scal though (when single target), which is absurd
just it is complete trash against exo mechs

[sand marlin]

Bone arrows are an ammunition

[ashen warren]

It does ye, but vanilla doesn't have any cases where it actually changes the projectile to a custom one

[sand marlin]

You meant shadowflame bow perhaps

[ashen warren]

Like gale does for example

[small timber]

iirc should not be unless there is a change since last time I used it

[bright crag]

Marrow uses a different type of Bone Arrow
At least, its sprite looks different

[bright crag]

(Hellwing)

[ashen warren]

I mean in terms of firing

[bright crag]

I see :p

[ashen warren]

That's still spawning a projectile exactly the same way as it would a normal arrow

While clockwork as a better example cannot function like it does if it spawned existing arrows

[small timber]

eventide maybe? I cant think of another example

[ashen warren]

They'd just fly off instantly lol

[bright crag]

Eventide still mostly behaves like arrows

[ashen warren]

Which while would be funny would be a bit odd

IDR what eventide does

[small timber]

Empress Of Light's laser bow

[sand marlin]

It shoots rainbow lasers when converted with wooden arrows

5 of them, otherwise 1

[ashen warren]

Doesn't it shoot 5 arrows if non wooden too

[sand marlin]

The middle is still converted

[ashen warren]

It looks, at a glance, to spawn them in the same way

Oh neat

Then ye that bit doesn't change

[small timber]

iirc is 4 arrows always, but using wooden turn it into rainbow lasers

ok is 5, I forgot tsunami and eventide which one is 4 or 5

[ashen warren]

Uhhh

I thought they were both 5

[sand marlin]

They are

[ashen warren]

Tsunami is definitely 5

[sand marlin]

They are both 5

[ashen warren]

Oh ok

[small timber]

yeah after checking both are 5, for some reason I thought one of them have 1 less arrow but deal higher base damage

[ashen warren]

I think eventide is just

Better

[sand marlin]

Eventide is just straight up worse than Tsunami in cal but in vanilla it is better

[small timber]

tsunami got gutted, both in vanilla and calamity
meanwhile eventide is untouched

[ashen warren]

Why does cal change them?

How is eventide worse in cal then what

[sand marlin]

No Tsunami is buffed in cal

[ashen warren]

Why is it buffed wha

[small timber]

oh they reverted on that?

[ashen warren]

Isn't it really good already

[small timber]

iirc is because vanilla give it a nerf in 1.4.4 already or something? so the "buff" is to maintain it at pre-1.4.4 power level? not sure

[ashen warren]

And Duke is kinda, not hard to do earlier than intended

In both vanilla, cal, and infernum too actually

[sand marlin]

Haven't heard anything like that, I'll have another look but this is what I remember and is still on vanilla changes while Eventide is untouched

[ashen warren]

Why's that something cal needs to do?

[sand marlin]

Tsunami is still 53 base damage in vanilla so the situation was unchanged in the port

[small timber]

ok: vanilla nerfed tsunami from 60->53, cal buffed it to 66

[sand marlin]

1.4.1 ok that's much older

[small timber]

for some reason I thought it is recent yeah, maybe it is phantasm or something not sure, I don't keep track of vanilla balance changes (there are always a lot of small number changes)

[ashen warren]

Wouldn't it be easier to go off of vanilla balance than having to balance your stuff and vanillas at the same time

[sand marlin]

In short Eventide is just a straight up worse Tsunami in cal

[small timber]

yeah, iirc tsunami (should be) nerfed in calamity even, not sure when it become a buff in calamity

[sand marlin]

Anyway leaving behind those base damage changes, back to the fire method thingy

Eventide fires 5 arrows which the middle one is always conterted while the others are only converted on wooden arrows

[small timber]

oh ok that is why I remember it as 4 arrows, because only 4 can use arrow property
compare to 5 of tsunami all use arrow property

[ashen warren]

Interesting design choice tbh

Ig they just went

Let's do it for the sake of it or smth

[tired haven]

From a bunch of discussions I remember Calamity aiming at the top of vanilla's viability because (especially prior to 1.4.x) many vanilla weapons were below that mark and were genuinely dissatisfying to use. As for why tsunami (which was like top 5 weapon on tier) of all things got buffed, no clue

I guess there is also the part that first the bosses got buffed hp because of buffs across vanilla weapons + cal weapons being stronger, then the things shifted to balancing around boss killtimes so everything now caters to that higher level instead

[buoyant idol]

Perhaps undoing some of the changes after 1.4.5 would be possible.

[sand marlin]

Yeah Tsunami probably needs a step back in any case

[violet torrent]

Omg, empty suggestions posting chat no way

[wintry gale]

my brain couldnt cook more ideas this time

[buoyant idol]

I’d prefer to space my suggestions out, I have two passing this batch.

[ashen warren]

question regarding a suggestion that's been brewing in my mind,

was it already suggested before to change the visuals of the wulfrum amplifier tesla field, and if not would it fall under the "no resprite" section

[small timber]

it is relatively new, so probably yes

oh wulfrum amplifier not rover drive

[small timber]

there is really not a "no resprite" rule iirc, but rather the reason of the resprite should not be based on specifically the reason of poor quality, if the resprite is for other valid reasoning then I think it could be suggested

[bright crag]

I wonder what brought you to suggest that...
Hello :)

What would be the reasoning to change it?

[ashen warren]

omg hi there ^^

but yeah I was wondering if having it changed to something similar to the rover drive shield/jelly accessory auras would be alright to suggest, since iirc the amplifier field has had that same static particle ring since the enemy was introduced? just happened to notice the comparison since the jelly accessories got updated and wanted to ask just in case :>

[bright crag]

Yeah
That's pretty fair
I'm not entirely sure that's fine as a suggestion, but I'm inclined to say yes
@hollow shell What do you think?

[glass arch]

p sure it is

visual touchup suggestions have gone through without any issues before

[bright crag]

Alright
Makes sense

[hollow shell]

Oh yeah that would be fine, doesn't count as a resprite at all
@ashen warren
@bright crag

[ashen warren]

gotcha, thank you! :D

[hollow shell]

👍

[grim tusk]

Suggestion about wulfrum enemies being old;

Meanwhile Arsenal weapons being older

System bane’s aura

[cobalt pewter]

le silly

(no one uses System Bane, I understand)

[pure whale]

Me when weapon bloat

[lucid marsh]

A thought:
The weapon charging mechanic, while cool looking, adds nothing to gameplay and is mostly just inconvenient

[wide river]

I forget it exists

[novel belfry]

if it was its own class and had its funny effects, i'd be fine

but no, its a weirdly inconveninent item set

[lucid marsh]

I agree

I would basically never use any of the arsenal weapons

It would be a lot better if they consumed power cells from your inventory

[solar pewter]

Weapon charges are cool if you can't get hits in often like true melee, but otherwise

[lucid marsh]

but even then they feel kind of pointless?

you gotta recharge them between fights

and that's about it

for summons it SUCKS

[pure whale]

melee speed on unigue swing animations

[small timber]

isnt that what they used to do and those weapon become so insane that they have to revert it

[sand marlin]

This is a pretty weird sugg because it sounds very unnecessary

Yeah

[solar pewter]

Thank you

[sand marlin]

They're already good enough

[small timber]

and also it is basically pointless to give those weapon melee speed scaling now

[solar pewter]

I belive you are referring to murasama spam click

Which wasn't melee speed just spam click minecraft 1.8

[small timber]

calamity removed all melee speed option EXCEPT from armor set and specifically Feral Claw/Mechanical Glove/Fire Gauntlet line

and violent reforge I guess, and uhh Eldritch Soul Artifact

[solar pewter]

I mean your gonna be using those in a melee playthrough usually

[sand marlin]

Pretty much all

[small timber]

you will be using armor set, and on melee why will you ever not use Fire Gauntlet line

therefore the only impact this have is violent reforge which you can just use menacing instead

[solar pewter]

Elemental gauntlet with auric tesla is pretty standard

And that's a noticeable speed increase especially with violent

[small timber]

yes exactly, which just means it is pointless to make them scale melee speed

because your melee speed is capped by the items above; so if they give those weapon melee speed scaling (in giving more damage instead), they will have to nerf their base damage anyway only to give them a scaling

[sand marlin]

The point is
Why do that? The weapons are good enough already, this just seems like a random damage boost

[solar pewter]

I mean

[small timber]

the only difference is violent, which you can as easily just switch to menacing instead

[solar pewter]

Either you'll spike damage or melee speed

Net similar amount

So it should be fine?

[small timber]

it should be fine, but also pointless