suggestions-discussion

[dense ferry]

Maybe, perhaps, who knows

[hearty yew]

Fucking Draedon

That's who

[dense ferry]

They aren't going to be shown so

[hearty yew]

THEN WHAT DO I SEE AT NIGHT??

IN GAME

[fervent orbit]

stars

[dense ferry]

Stars, yeah

[hearty yew]

And what might those be

[fervent orbit]

balls of mana

[dense ferry]

Mana, and maybe some are Primordial Light

[hearty yew]

Is there a way to tell them apart

[fervent orbit]

not currently i think?

[hearty yew]

How far apart are they

[dense ferry]

There could be if we could mess with star color at night

[dense ferry]

Personally those are questions I don't think that should be answered and there is just no proper way of putting that information ingame aside from more Draedon Logs

[fervent orbit]

cant wait for draedate

[dense ferry]

We don't need to detail stars properly in a universe that is essentially on middle age with the very fucking big outlier as Draedon

[jovial spire]

No. Primordial Light is its own thing.

[hearty yew]

Then what is the sun

[fervent orbit]

primordial light

[jovial spire]

Primordial Light

[hearty yew]

Didn't ask you.

[hearty yew]

Then why is this one star completely different from all the others

[jovial spire]

Because it's not a star

[hearty yew]

You have destroyed my suspension of disbelief

Thanks phone

[fervent orbit]

pri-

[jovial spire]

It is Primordial Light

Noob stop

[fervent orbit]

ok

[hearty yew]

This is unacceptable

The fact that the two of you can't even give me a consistent answer is part of the problem

We will have to figure this out later

[jovial spire]

I ahev specifically talked with Rebecc abaout this stuff I have no idea why she apaprently does not remember

[dense ferry]

I was just saying my own conclusions on the matter

[hearty yew]

We unfortunately do, because people will be wondering what's in "the normal dimension" when we get to the distortion

I'm not upset but I want to make sure we can all agree on what is and isn't "in terraria" from the perspective of calamity

[dense ferry]

I don't think there is anything stopping another Sun from being out there in space, but if there is or not, it doesn't matter at all for the story

[jovial spire]

Ok and you need to be clear about it

That it is what you personally maybe think

[dense ferry]

Fair

[jovial spire]

Ratehr thana ctually agreed upon stuff

You have caused a headache

[dense ferry]

Sorry for the confusion

[jovial spire]

I don't think stars need alot of specification, I am going to disagree with you on that front.

And not at all. It'd be rather hard to write the Distortion into a corner.

But I don't feel like talking about much of this right now, I am now frusterated

[golden tulip]

i didnt know the sun isnt the sun either lmao what

[valid crest]

can you tell me if it is possible to return to the old version of the mod ? (I want to play, but another mod requires an old version of the mod)

[odd geyser]

I will eated the sun

[wide river]

If you're asking for Infernum purposes, then this message should have the version you need
#calamity-addon-talk message

[golden tulip]

if youre asking for infernum purposes that is already fixed

[valid crest]

for fargo

[worldly sparrow]

we arent fargocord

go to fargocord

[golden tulip]

no no the message enchi linked works

[valid crest]

I need an old version of calamity for fargomod

[worldly sparrow]

oh

[hearty yew]

Let me be clear that I'm not actually upset about this lore confusion. I just think it has to be sorted out before we go too far. Sorry for causing a mess

[jovial spire]

Yeah, and since msot of use writers are just friends who casually hang out alot, I will admit that some stuff does get concepulized and then we forget to talk about the ideas we had. And I do myself accept blame for that, I should remember to communicate better about this stuff.

I need to do a better job at that.

[hearty yew]

I'm sure that it wouldn't be a problem in practice, because before we put anything major or important in game we'd discuss it extensively

[jovial spire]

Anyways, glad that got sorted out

[deft yew]

That was fun to read up

[drowsy plank]

istg if yharim's gift ends up being insignia upgrade after i made that exact suggestion and got rejected with the exact same idea i am going to fucking epxlode

like ill be happy it happened but

💥

[wide river]

Suggestion status: Yesn't

[bright crag]

It was suggested in dev before, and there was concern about giving players infinite flight pre-Yharim
It's better off as an endgame thing

That being said, a Soaring Insignia upgrade would be great if not very powerful

[drowsy plank]

i just said to make it like yharon lore item ig

so it would be different

[bright crag]

Also, answering your question regarding Yharim's Gift
According to Fab, it was meant to be a gift from Yharim to Yharon

[placid needle]

#suggestions-posting message
this is my sunken sea for example:

i've already had to patch the bottom to stop it from leaking

core still missing water

[hearty yew]

just make yharim do something about infinite flight lol

[bright crag]

Then what would be the point of adding it pre-Yharim...?

You could suggest it and see what the others think, but I kinda doubt they'd want infinite flight available for any boss pre-Yharim

[hearty yew]

it would cause issues with exos I think

yharims gift upgrades to be prenerf soaring insignia after beating yharim himself

everyone wins

[bright crag]

It would definitely affect Exos a lot
SCal, not as much

[worldly sparrow]

why not just move it to post-yharim when yharim update comes out in 20

[deft yew]

20 Mirsario months

[deft yew]

This was my thought, and the same way I feel about Exo Box

[drowsy plank]

if exo box is broken simply make the upgrade to insignia an exhume what could possibly go wrong

[worldly sparrow]

lets go we now have one thing from one boss that trivializes the other regardless of class

the issue is solved

the game is balanced

people will finally do scal first

[hearty yew]

I doubt most people even use exo box correctly

[worldly sparrow]

wait theres a correct way?

arent they all very good

[oblique geyser]

Exo box needs to be deleted

Draedon's Heart is already enough reward from exos

Not to mention all the weapons

[novel belfry]

now that i think about it

wouldn't it be cool if gfb sunken sea was on top of the gfb underground desert instead?

[hearty yew]

With all due respect, no

Why would we just delete something like that

Yes of course, let me delete content from the mod until it's perfectly balanced. The most balanced mod is one with zero pieces of content after all

Well. I guess it could be a texture pack.

[hearty yew]

the problem here, as I've said numerous times before, is scal needs better rewards

[pine star]

The philosophy of Stalinsort in a nutshell:

[worldly sparrow]

well yeah of course

most the scal weapons are eh

and then theres the problem that melee ranged and rogue dont get a single exhume besides scommunity

and then the other problem that draeheart and exo box are just better on the other boss than scal drops on exos

[oblique geyser]

Not literally deleted

I meant like

[hearty yew]

Oh okay I was like

"bruh???"

[oblique geyser]

Locked to post SCal too since it trivializes her super hard

More than other things

[drowsy plank]

exo chair is now draedon's dev item

[hearty yew]

To be fair I think DH and ShCom are about as good as each other. Problem is, DH and regular community can be used together, so. Lmao.

[oblique geyser]

It's fine for BR since BR has no semblance of balance

[hearty yew]

Exo box was concepted from day 1 as the perfect movement tool that would be useful for scal

When the item is good at what it's supposed to do and is functioning exactly as the devs intended, what do we do?

[worldly sparrow]

i wonder what such a thing but specialized for exos would look like

[oblique geyser]

Well yeah it is perfect for SCal but it does trivialize her

[worldly sparrow]

fast diagonal movement?

[hearty yew]

probably an empress wing upgrade for massive vertical movement

[oblique geyser]

Shattered community is good for exos (melt them harder)

[worldly sparrow]

ooh yeah hovering/upflight would be so good on exos

[hearty yew]

anything that lets you fly at like 115mph up diagonal

would "trivialize" exos

[worldly sparrow]

yeah, sometimes when fighting ares you just reach the bottom of the arena

[oblique geyser]

I mean falling down already trivializes them so

Fallgodding my beloved

[hearty yew]

Shcom is really good for just wailing on the multi mech phases to end them as fast as possible

[worldly sparrow]

such a thing would make going back up free

[oblique geyser]

Yeah, although 3 mechs is literally free

[hearty yew]

Also

[oblique geyser]

(you can run left in a straight line and you will never get hit)

[worldly sparrow]

yeah im glad draedon has the kindness to program his machines to hold back when together

[hearty yew]

I don't want to nerf either DH or shcom. If anything I want to buff Calamity (item)

Because these are literally end game accessories we are talking about

If they're not broken people will just use stat sticks

[worldly sparrow]

calamity has real potential

to be good

but it isnt

[hearty yew]

This is why we tried so hard with the sponge and purity to make accessories that aren't stat sticks but are extremely powerful

[oblique geyser]

DH and shcom are pretty good

It's exo box that's the really OP reward

[worldly sparrow]

25% rage damage is crazy nice to have

[fossil finch]

shattered community makes you feel like god and then you have calamity doing nothing

pretty cursor

[hearty yew]

actually leveling shcom from +35% to +60% is utterly insane with damage builds

[worldly sparrow]

calamity as a vanity cursor when

[fossil finch]

already is

[hearty yew]

because that multiplies with all your damage stats

[fossil finch]

use it in a vanity slot

[worldly sparrow]

oh shit it is?

[hearty yew]

equip it in a vanity slot. it does that already

my god

[oblique geyser]

True rage is multiplicative

[hearty yew]

and shcom makes rage so incredibly more accessible

[oblique geyser]

I still use OSC over shcom most of the time though

[hearty yew]

what is osc

[oblique geyser]

Occult skull crown

[hearty yew]

my brain is blanking

what the

People actually use that

REALLY???

[oblique geyser]

Yea

It makes rage generate passively

And adrenaline charge 20% fatster

[hearty yew]

Shattered Community also gives you heart of darkness passive rage

[fossil finch]

ok but shatterd community deathrays your character and tells you level up and gives you stats

why would we as players care about the skull when shat is not only cooler but already has one of th eimportant effects.,.,.,

[fervent orbit]

adren charge rate is really good if you generally know how to fight the bosses alr

[worldly sparrow]

also in expert- scommunity just casually adds rage

[hearty yew]

yep

it just ADDS it

so you can enjoy it

😉

[fossil finch]

fair enough but tbh we dont think most people would get a lot of use over adrenaline eitherway

[worldly sparrow]

so yeah scommunity is incredibly good but just not on par with dheart

also most people dont like grinding rage damage

[drowsy plank]

OSC is nice but it's basically just stress pills 2
wish the other effects mattered more, or at least, that the item in general was more useful. it's not like anyone is using it for laud despite it being part of the recipe when like 80% of the debuffs it deals with just. dont exist at post-DoG lmao

[worldly sparrow]

true

wish it protected against relevant debuffs

[wide river]

I feel like Heart of Darkness needs some tweaks, and Laudanum needs a full rework

Stress Pills are fine imo

[worldly sparrow]

imagine if it protected against like, dragonfire or vulnerability hex

osc would be very good

[coral carbon]

idk man all these accessories are pretty balanced if you have every single one equipped at once

[novel belfry]

Laudanum's effects might actually go very well with a certain Purity that was added reworked in the 2nd most recent update

since Purity gives some nice benefits and nullifies the negatives of a bunch of debuffs, Laudanum could come on in and make them into buffs as well

[small timber]

The problem with laudanum or purity is not that they are not strong enough

The problem is not a single enemy that will not instantly die by having you accidentally stare at them at that point inflict any of those debuffs

Purity at least still cut debuff in half, the end of laudanum's effectiveness is to counter armor crunch from golem/ravager/leviathan meteor or speed abuse

[grave zinc]

@buoyant idol - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Remove contact damage from enemies when they’re passive]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[buoyant idol]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/839812582634553374/945276454453801010/mini_amogus.gif

[grave zinc]

@small timber - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make Accessories/Items That Give Amalgam's "Double Potion Duration/Persist on Death" Effect Earlier In Progression]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@fiery birch - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Add a Blood Orb recipe for Biome Sight Potions]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@oblique geyser - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Allow all Melee Weapons to have Legendary Reforge]

It has been reviewed by the devs, and for one reason or another they decided it would be best not to implement it.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[oblique geyser]

Can't believe that suggestion made it to devs in the first place

[worldly sparrow]

nice

[wide river]

Honestly thought it would have needed more, but glad to see it got through regardless

That's gonna be a help

[cobalt pewter]

just wanna say spong rework is awesome

[worldly sparrow]

sponge rework is a great day for facetanking

(mpg finally facetanked bh5 thanks to it)

[grave zinc]

@fiery birch - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Add a Blood Orb recipe for Biome Sight Potions]

It has officially been implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[wide river]

That was fast
Cool

[cobalt pewter]

I haven't checked the other reworks on .003 yet but overall I'm liking the direction of just reworking shit

[crude geode]

AFAIK that’s the main goal for cal going forward

Is just reworking a bunch of shit

[cobalt pewter]

awesome

Sabaton, Blazing Core and Sponge are my highlights so far

[crude geode]

Sabaton finally getting what it deserves

[wide river]

I think my main (and only, really) problem accessory is Void of Extinction and its components at this point
If that gets a rework I can rest happy

All the recent reworks do be fixing the generic stat sticks

[royal tapir]

I love suggestions that take 30 seconds to implement

[worldly sparrow]

woah

[crude geode]

wdym you don’t wanna rework all the dungeon weapons

[royal tapir]

dies

[crude geode]

(I am not a hypocrite in any way, I have never asked for big reworks or gotten something silly like moving a boss to another point in progression into voting)

[cobalt pewter]

I wanna see more retiers actually, just to be funny

(for reworked things)

[small timber]

Time to repost my wording inconsistency doc

[cold cosmos]

Make copper shortsword post-yharim

[small timber]

Avenger emblem is still a complete heresy

The entire reason it is 12% is to prevent emblem stacking, rather than because 12% all damage is powerful

Even with summoner taken into consideration if your summon scale massively from 3% damage boost at 3 slots and a 0.75x multiclass nerf it is almost entirely on the summon weapon being too good

[drowsy plank]

nice, honestly wouldnt be suprised if rotten brain is the one that got reworked for this lol

[buoyant idol]

Rotten Brain is so forgettable rn, double length on that would be amazing, although Bloody Worm Tooth would be disappointing without its own rework.

[drowsy plank]

hey i mean bloody work scarf exists

[wide river]

Rotten Brain when you have to stay within a narrow portion of health to not have downsides

[buoyant idol]

Bloody Worm Tooth shouldn't be a melee item to begin with, it's an expert drop.

[drowsy plank]

expert drops stopped being real a while ago anyway lol

[buoyant idol]

True, but as long as they exist in vanilla that's the expert drop in my eyes

Are there any other items that need help?

[drowsy plank]

where's xpc's spreadsheet

[buoyant idol]

How does Spectral Veil fit in right now? Normality Relocator just seems like a better version even for rogue.

[drowsy plank]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/17SUHBgjAjO2BKks2WkgJ7M4kGQFcCEgRTPhfttLid_o/edit

[buoyant idol]

Void of Extinction line is definitely getting a rework, best not to suggest about it.

[ashen warren]

and blazing core already has been reworked so

[buoyant idol]

Same with Sabaton

[wide river]

I mean
Even if I were to suggest it it wouldn't do anything :hdflr:

It just wouldn't make it to the devs, that is

[buoyant idol]

I will include a GIF of Vergil for good luck

[small timber]

I didnt update the doc afterwards yes

[buoyant idol]

Maybe add the Void of Calamity to it? It's just Gehenna + Avenger

[wide river]

Void of Calamity is the very basis of this accessory really

[buoyant idol]

Yeah, it's just a basic upgrade to it.

[patent nimbus]

and its still just a glorified avenger emblem

[buoyant idol]

Then there's me, who unironically likes Avenger Emblem.

[wide river]

It now has some defense and immunities that Asgard's Valor also gives immunity to! Wow!

[buoyant idol]

Accessory looks lower quality too, I legit tried to redo it for 5 minutes.

What is even supposed to be?

[patent nimbus]

idk, a lot of cal accessories are like that

[buoyant idol]

Gehenna Coin?

[wide river]

Void of Extinction may as well just be Abaddon and Void of Calamity because the rest of the effects do nothing/not enough to matter

[buoyant idol]

Why is Molten Skull Rose in it anyways? That's part of the still viable boot line at this point.

[wide river]

Used to be either Lava Charm or Obsidian Rose, I don't remember which
Once 1.4 rolled around, it got changed or something I don't really know

[buoyant idol]

Obsidian Rose I think

I think I'll suggest to remove that piece, lava immunity is easy to come by at that point.

[drowsy plank]

molten rose being there is fine and definetly not the issue

[small timber]

Just make gehenna apply weak brimstone flame to yourself so you can trigger self applied debuff effect

Which uhhh, they just removed 1 of with OD's scales rework

At least you get crown jewel line now

[drowsy plank]

in fact id argue pretty much everything else is a much bigger problem (they are boring)

[buoyant idol]

I think a vague rework statement for Void of Extinction might work as a suggestion.

[buoyant idol]

Would it be ok to provide vague examples of a rework for the Void of Calamity?

[drowsy plank]

ye

long as they're just suggs/ideas

[buoyant idol]

Yeah, adding numbers and damage values is a bad practice.

[crude geode]

Looks good

[buoyant idol]

I really hope the charge up explosion gets added since I really want to just pop a Zerg and watch as it makes fireworks out of the pumpkin moon.

[tribal cedar]

Melee players likely just jump right from AotC and Zenith, to Exoblade, and instead of Violence just right to Iridescent Excalibur because it’s OP as hell lol

[worldly sparrow]

ok?

doesnt change that they dont get an exhume

[novel belfry]

Void of Extinction should be cooler than it is now

Honestly, it can be 3 accessories stacked into one, so long as each accessory has a unique and rather cool effect

Gehenna is just boring as hell

[oblique geyser]

iirc melee ranged and rogue are more technology and mage and summoner are more magic so Draedon is mostly for the first three and SCal is mostly for the last two

[novel belfry]

void of calamity has a really cool sprite, but it just does 12% increased damage and another brimstone fireball from the sky (except it procs on invincibility frames)

[wide river]

Yea

[worldly sparrow]

fair

[novel belfry]

abaddon is literally just an debuff immunity accessory

[worldly sparrow]

though like, it basically means that if you're not playing mage or summoner there's like no reason for you to do scal first

[novel belfry]

albeit one that I have had to rely on once upon a time because Calamitas Clone was at one point a true pain in the butt

[worldly sparrow]

i guess in death mode melee gets gael's which is crazy good on exos

but thats death

[oblique geyser]

That's the point

Mage and summoner do SCal first, everyone else does Draedon first

Although I think Draedon should just be first for everyone

[novel belfry]

eh, i like them as is

[worldly sparrow]

just force draedon to be first-

god i can already hear the lore chat talking about if such an update would need a change in powerscaling for scal or draedon

[novel belfry]

it basically gives the current calamity mod two final bosses, up to you to decide which to face off first

(at least til we get Yharim, who will absolutely regardless of order of Scal or exo, you will face off against him last anyways)

(UNLESS you're insane)

[worldly sparrow]

anyways i feel like sugging something so ill do that

[glass arch]

thats more of an issue with scal not giving enough loot compared to exos

exos have 2 weapon drops for each class that isnt named mage PLUS exo box PLUS draedons heart PLUS miracle matter

[drowsy plank]

i think enchantments were supposed to patch that up but the difference is exo weapons have no downsides while enchants are... enchants

[novel belfry]

Exo mechs: Gives you a ton of weapons right off the bat, as well as allowing you to obtain Exo Prisms to create the ultimate Exo weapon of your class

[worldly sparrow]

yeah enchantments are situational

[glass arch]

just stick aflame on everything

[novel belfry]

Scal: Gives you a decent variety of cool weapons... and you get the weird as hell enchantments

[glass arch]

enchantments are cool in concept but most just dont give enough of a benefit to warrant the downsides

and the ones that DO give enough of a benefit also have nearly no downside

[novel belfry]

You're supposed to use all sorts of Enchantments... but they're all so confusing and confounding and sometimes just plain stupid, you're probably going to use Aflame instead since Weak Brimstone Flames isn't going to do shit with your endgame regeneration bonuses

and there's also exhuming too! It's a cool concept, you get to even summon the absurdly cool looking Sepulcher himself!

but they also have the weird downsides that can be confusing or sometimes don't matter

[glass arch]

oblatory and aflame are pretty much the only enchants worth using because. they have basically no downside

[novel belfry]

needless to say, enchantments really really really need a rework

#suggestions-voting message this one got a lot of votes, but unfortunately it was stacked up against other votes that had an enormous amount of votes

shame

it really ought to get voted upon by the devs

[lucid marsh]

I did Scal first as ranger because I was struggling more with draedon

[novel belfry]

also I wonder if the final form of a weapon line could end up being obtained not by a final crafting recipe, but by exhuming

that would be pretty cool

[golden sonnet]

I think draedon makes Scal too easy, so I force myself to Cal first

[glass arch]

exhumes are planned to be for more lore specific things

for example braelors axe

[novel belfry]

really?

interesting

still, I think exhuming to create the final form of a weapon line would be pretty cool

[glass arch]

@worldly sparrow i think this sugg is focusing too much on how instead of why

[worldly sparrow]

gotcha

[drowsy plank]

uhhhhhhhh

subclass + "it'd be fun" reasoning

[worldly sparrow]

dammit

[drowsy plank]

it is hard to write one that is valid

[cobalt pewter]

honestly the issue with enchants is that

there's a lot of weapons that Will interact very funnily with enchants

and most of their drawbacks are even stronger than the benefits

[lucid marsh]

to me they seem like they're never worth using

[buoyant idol]

It's something that you tack on occasionally just to see what they do.

[cobalt pewter]

especially due to the tiering, these won't see much use often

I'd rather have a calamitas construct NPC doing the enchantment kinda deal from killing calclone, then calamitas herself nukes the construct in her place once scal dies

[buoyant idol]

For such a volitile system, that'd be pain to balance.

[small timber]

oh right I just remember the other boss suggestion that I wanted to do

fuck it is mkv

[sand marlin]

#suggestions-posting message eh only Gehenna part of the accessory needs to be reworked the rest look just fine and it's not just an avenger emblem, that phrasing is pretty old because current VoE is a strong contender against class emblems with effective DoT damage

You also get the extra 12 defense which while is odd, sure is nice

[crude geode]

God yes to this newest sugg

Phantasmal Eyes has to be the ML's worst attack

[fleet flume]

I could not agree more with the concept of the suggestion

[patent nimbus]

i hope this doesnt come off as too verbose

i dont write suggs often

[drowsy plank]

why not just

reduce the cost

[small timber]

I think the devs did say it is explicitly intentional that it takes (a lot of) dreadon cell so yeah it is a hard sell

unless they completely changed their opinion on exo summons during the time

[patent nimbus]

it still feels like an unneeded mechanic

why is it there at all is what i wonder

like i said, for veteran players its irrelevant since they know theyll need thousands by the lategame, and new players get screwed by needing to wait for literal hours

its not a fun mechanic for either group

just an arbitrary obstacle

reducing the amount needed wouldnt really fix that, although obviously new players wouldnt be screwed quite as hard

[fervent orbit]

123,000 seconds or
2,050 minutes or
34 hours worth of powercells if you only have 1 factory

[cobalt pewter]

outside of the sugg's proposals, I can think of making the cells actually intuitive to use, like giving the related furnitures actual context behind them

e.g. in Cell Factory interface, add a hologram label that adds contextual stuff to the item, like a randomly generated serial number and the amount of cells one can get per minute

or in Charging Station interface, stuff about the currently placed chargeable item can get details like required cells

the reason newer people have absolutely zero idea about using the factory early on is because they have no idea how they work without looking up wiki

adding contextual hints would help them figure out at worst

[lavish condor]

I left a sugg at one point about making the charging stations and chargers stand out more and it got a thumbs up

[cobalt pewter]

oof

that's in approval hell

I am sorry

[lavish condor]

currently they're like the lamest-looking furniture in the labs with no indication that they're required for progression

the only way you'd figure out their importance blind is if you looted all the furniture from the labs and saw the tooltip for them

[patent nimbus]

even if they stood out more that wouldnt necessarily indicate that theyre useful for progression

the hologram machine stands out a lot but its completely irrelevant

and no matter how hard you try to indicate it, some players will not get the hints or will fail to find the labs entirely

and those players shouldnt be punished by multiple hours of waiting

[golden sonnet]

I feel like removing them entirely is too big of a move, as that makes draedon arsenal weapons lose their uniqueness

Imo suggesting to remove them entirely takes away from the suggestion as a whole

[patent nimbus]

theyd still need to be charged and require the relevant schematic to be decrypted to craft them

[hollow shell]

Kinda based suggestion here

I feel like it understands and lays out the problem very well

[hollow shell]

The charging stations can still charge the weapons, they just wouldn't consume batteries to do so

If you're a veteran or wiki-reading player then the gameplay is nearly identical

[patent nimbus]

yeah

[golden sonnet]

Seems a little weird that an old abandoned station you pick up just has infinite charge, but terraria doesn't make sense often, and it would improves gameplay

I've been convinced

[hollow shell]

heh

[hollow shell]

A potential alternative solution to the sudden pre-Draedon wait is to require batteries much earlier for something
Considering every single battery source prior to Draedon is optional

Make it so the battery discovery shock isn't for the most intensive battery sink

[patent nimbus]

it would give some more warning, yes, but at the end of the day it still requires waiting with no other gameplay involved

to me, waiting without any gameplay is the main problem here

since for other forms of farming you actually get to do stuff instead of just waiting on an arbitrary timer

[hollow shell]

Make it so the Security Chests in labs have to be opened with 10 batteries
Make it so the summoning items for PBG and Aureus require 100 batteries to either craft or use

[hollow shell]

yep yes indeed

Inherent problem with the current system

Very little player engagement

[patent nimbus]

hmmm

[hollow shell]

I am trying to think of ways to improve it but a lot of them just come down to "Crafting but Different" or "Enemy Killing but Different" or "This is still just Waiting"

[golden sonnet]

I don't see an issue with waiting for it in general, as you can speed it up by getting more stations which is interaction. But I do see an issue with how many are needed at the end

[fervent orbit]

the ice schematic having over double of the previous requirements combined

[patent nimbus]

i dont want to include too many clauses in this sugg, so should i just ditch the removal thing and go with adding some earlier warning/important progression lock that also needs the cells instead?

cuz id rather not have the sugg be "remove cells OR reduce cells needed OR make them more accessible OR give a warning"

[hollow shell]

I like that it asks for a full removal because it's bold
And if the devs see it it'll get them thinking about the value of the system as a whole

If this sugg gets rejected (likely), then you can suggest less extreme avenues

[golden sonnet]

I kinda like the removal as well, at first I disagreed, but then I was convinced

[ashen warren]

can't speak for other devs, but i can say when i did my pt when coming back to cal, i immediately saw the current implementation as being problematic for the reasons listed in the suggestion

Dunno if i'd agree with a full removal, but i do think there's probably ways to make the system more intuitive and player (especially new player) friendly in that regard

[hollow shell]

The one thing I think you should edit about the sugg is that you should mention this ^ more explicitly so that people don't think you're asking for Charge to get removed too

[patent nimbus]

ok

edited

[hollow shell]

Yep, perfect, thank you

[patent nimbus]

we'll see how it goes ig, if it gets rejected i could suggest one of the alternatives suggested here at a later time

[hollow shell]

mhm

[cobalt pewter]

I mean isn't that the purpose of lab seekers?

but unlocking chests with cells sounds neat

though iirc cal had problems with making unique lockable chest with keys

so not sure if using cells would end up similarly

[hollow shell]

Seekers are hardly required

[cobalt pewter]

fair enough I spose

[hollow shell]

I feel like putting them behind a boss item especially will make them much more noticeable
i.e., exactly what happens now, Draedon

Cuz as regrettable as it is, players care about bosses more than almost anything else

If the Boss Checklist entry for PBG said "Charge the [pic] Abombination with 100 [pic] Draedon Power Cells from the [pic] Power Cell Factories"

That would inform well over half the players who normally wouldn't have known to start using factories until Draedon

[drowsy plank]

im pretty sure people have wanted abombination and aureus spawn to be based on the comp for a while so it wouldnt hurt

[grim tusk]

Abyss chests…

[ashen warren]

oh were they not referring to the astral chest? i recall there being issues with that one

[frosty trellis]

That was with generating it not having them unlock and all

Which caused cal to be able to generate a world

[hollow shell]

Thought the reason it just auto unlocked after Aureus was due to the super pain of trying to gen an actual key-unlockable chest

[cobalt pewter]

abyss chest is what I initially had in mind

but yea

[ashen warren]

yeah i remember that as well

[novel belfry]

Wait, I just got another schizo idea
Move Astral “Dungeon” Chests to the Astral Underground, and perhaps introduce other weapons that can appear in them

[small timber]

I mean

"add more content" is very easy to be a good idea

[novel belfry]

Honestly, the Astral Underground is probably the most underutilized biome in the mod

[hollow shell]

Yep and that's been talked about at length

[novel belfry]

At least make the title of the really cool song that plays down there make sense

[small timber]

just like you know, this is also a good idea
"Add a DOG subworld to the mod"
"Add a Yharon subworld to the mod"
"Add profaned minibiome instead of making profaned enemy spawn in hallow and underworld"
"Add Plague minibiome"
"Expand abyss to be more interesting"

you literally can just "add content to anything" and it can potentially be a good idea because everything can be considered underutilized in some way or another

[hearty yew]

"Wait, fuck, it's still Terraria"

[deft yew]

Extra schizo idea: Just remove the chest

[small timber]

time for player to complete a gearless parkour challenge to obtain roxcalibur, with a hidden strength stat check on their melee damage stat at the final pedestal

[novel belfry]

I was thinking that moving the Astral Chest to the Astral Underground might be a very simple way to at least encourage players to delve into that biome

[hearty yew]

Power cells were an experiment to see if we could get players to engage with a new resource with situational application, and be willing to plan in advance for Draedon.

The answer to both questions is a resounding "no". Many players will never see Arsenal content until they check Boss Checklist and it tells them to make this Thing (the Codebreaker) they've never heard of. And sure, summoning Draedon boils down to a fetch quest even if you delete batteries from the game.

Another angle is to provide batteries immediately while also requiring them immediately (e.g. opening security chests). This shows the player they're useful right off the bat.

Charging stations charging without consuming anything is also totally fine. The current requirement for power cells is meaningless if you set up at least 3 factories and obtuse otherwise.

In Terraria, the second you tell anyone "You have to do X to use weapon Y" they will balk, quit, bitch about it for fifteen seconds, and then take Megashark out of their Magic Storage. You have failed as a game designer because you didn't make the game they wanted to play.

You can't justify it with increased performance for effort input either. The whole school of thought about "hard to get = better" is diseased and encourages the same flavor of tedium as fishing based buff potions.

Now, hell, I'd even say that charge is not an interesting mechanic. But at some level it was meant to be inconvenient and obtuse. To make the weapons really feel like lab prototypes you're not supposed to use in real combat.

You're jury rigging something together with piecemeal infrastructure to even be able to use them.

[deft yew]

Extra schizo idea: Just remove the chest

[hearty yew]

Nope that was a 1.3 problem it's easy now

[deft yew]

This message was very delayed because I’m in the car on a mountain

[cobalt pewter]

The whole school of thought about "hard to get = better" is diseased and encourages the same flavor of tedium as fishing based buff potions.

that reminds me that I should probably sugg to make craft yields for harder to get potions higher because it's so silly.

(also I wish discord mobile lets me select text straight from the message)

[cobalt pewter]

ahh gotcha

[small timber]

either that or you are just in the middle of the Australian capital city

[novel belfry]

There was 2 of the same message

[deft yew]

oh

[hearty yew]

A corollary of your own famous maxim.

If we want players to interact with it, it has to be on Boss Checklist.

Calamity is a boss mod. Everything else supports the bosses whether we like it or not. The lore only exists to make the bosses seem cooler. It's all a farce

[cobalt pewter]

terraria is a boss rush game

the lore

[hearty yew]

this is the 1.3 problem I was talking about

[hollow shell]

I'm inclined to disagree. But if that is true then Calamity exacerbates the problem heavily by nearly doubling the boss density

[cobalt pewter]

I jest, but terraria strikes a somewhat tolerable balance for me between a combination of random stuff to do (I was quite fixated on golf for a while) and boss fights

when a minigame is fun it's easy for me to get hooked, even if it virtually has no rewards

unlike fishing ahem

[drowsy plank]

id consider it a bit of the opposite, you can very easily rush vanilla terraria already, but at least cal forces you to bash your head against a few more bosses on average if you really want that 100% boss completion stat which might actually get people to slow down a bit and, yknow, actually learn the other systems

or you download boss rush mod idfk

cant do anything about that

[hearty yew]

vanilla terraria isn't. On that I'll agree. Sorry, I'll correct myself to "Calamity turns Terraria into a game almost solely about bosses"

[hollow shell]

btw Thank you for your as-usual cynical and honest evaluations Ozza

[novel belfry]

This is probably why I really like that early hard mode rework calamity does, even if I try to get around it by fishing

[hollow shell]

(This isn't sarcastic, I do like hearing you speak about the game this way)

[hearty yew]

Only a little cynical. As the guy who made a lot of this originally (hell, you were there) I'm actually relieved to see it's finally being called into question

[cobalt pewter]

oh I just realized I'm not in #1042197406776827914

real

[drowsy plank]

cal may be a boss rush game rn, but if the biome reworks do actually work out im hoping that will change at least some people's minds

[cobalt pewter]

no what the heck I thought this was balance thread as I was juggling between 4 servers

my memory is fading

[drowsy plank]

lol

[fervent orbit]

wake up

[cobalt pewter]

that is true

[fervent orbit]

you were never in calamity in the first place

this was all a dream

[cobalt pewter]

what a nightmare

[oblique geyser]

To be fair I don't think fishing crates are supposed to give the ores early

[hollow shell]

Calamity does do some good biome stuff, it's not all boss
Does balance out the boss density problem a bit

[wide river]

I have a very crackhead idea regarding Draedon Power Cells

Maybe have some Codebreaker parts use them in their recipes to get players to notice them more easily?

Because most new players use Recipe Browser really, they'd find Mysterious Circuitry/Dubious Plating and put it in Recipe Browser, and then see Draedon Power Cells in some of the recipes
Could even add some flavor text to Draedon Power Cells saying where they originate from, something like "Formed by the power generators of Draedon's Labs"

[novel belfry]

That’s a pretty good idea

[frosty trellis]

That
Makes
A lot of sense
Can use the power cells in the recipe instead of the whole decrypting thing

And then you just put the finished schematic into the computer, it gives you new recipes and you can just read the log. The little side log thing should also tell you that new shit can be made as that can help

[novel belfry]

Also speed up the decrypting process

It’s too long

[hollow shell]

Aw, idk about replacing decrypting with crafting, that feels lame

[frosty trellis]

Does it? Yes
But is it also a hell of lot more new player friendly? Yeah

And it doesn't need to be instantaneous it can take like 10-15 seconds

Just not like, 6 minutes

[novel belfry]

Also power cells can be used to fuel the extractinator

[hollow shell]

Ench's idea is good though

I could have sworn that at least one of the components used batts in the recipe already, but no, only furniture does

And yes please do that tooltip thing

[frosty trellis]

I literally had to look up how to do the computer shit like many others. Hell, in my first pt that I fought Exos I just cheated in the cooling cell because it was just really confusing

[novel belfry]

But the chances of getting scrap parts and circuits are SOOOO LOW that it’s infuriating

2.5% chance to get 1 scrap/circuit

[frosty trellis]

The schematics after decrypting gives you a little thing telling you what you can make now
But I feel like the computer telling you that outright and having the schematic as the reminder would be better

[drowsy plank]

when are we getting 0.001% or smthn chance of getting suspicious scrap from extracting power cells fr

[frosty trellis]

PLEASE

Sus scrap sucks to find

[wide river]

Maybe someday I'll write that suggestion

[novel belfry]

Drastically increase the amount of Mysterious Circuitry and Dubious Plating you can obtain from using Draedon Power Cells on the Extractinator

Yes, you can in fact, use Draedon Power Cells on the Extractinator, to obtain the two key materials of almost everything related to Draedon. Unfortunately, the chances of obtaining one of these two is a minimal 2.5% chance. Even worse, if this chance procs, you only obtain 1 Plating/Circuitry. This makes using the Extractinator to obtain Plating/Circuitry worthless in comparison to other methods.
I propose therefore that the chances of obtaining Plating/Circuitry from an Extractinator be drastically increased, in order to give players a pretty reliable method of acquiring these important materials.

[hearty yew]

This is astounding to me, because this was the other experiment!

Seeing whether people were willing to start something in the background and let that make progress while they did something else.

The answer was a resounding "no".

People are willing to wait 3 minutes for their food in the microwave, but apparently even 1 minute 30 seconds of decryption time is anathema.

[wide river]

And then 15 second ads that are the bane of the internet

[novel belfry]

Wait, you’re telling me this entire Draedon-related series of updates… was a bunch of experiments?

How fitting

[hearty yew]

That was also an experiment, to try and make the side labs worth it. Evidently nobody wants that either

[hearty yew]

Yes, actually

This isn't a "haha all planned" meme

It actually was

[hollow shell]

Should just add a message when decryption begins that outright says "Close this menu and go do something else while this runs. It'll continue decrypting even while you're somewhere else in the world, don't worry."

I feel like people might be under the impression that they need to leave the Codebreaker screen open

[fervent orbit]

wat if decrypts took longer, but in excahnge decrypts are avaible earlier than the crafting recipes it unlocks?

[hearty yew]

Yeah I think at the end of the day a lot of this is a USER EXPERIENCE problem

It's a case of a lot of these things being badly executed

not that they are necessarily bad ideas

[hollow shell]

indeed

[novel belfry]

Inconvenience is something that players generally attempt to get rid of when they use mods

I am not innocent of this, either

[small timber]

this might had been mentioned before but I think one of the more intuitive way to make player realise draedon arsenal/power cells exist is to have abandoned surface lab

because surface is the first biome the player try to explore, instead of relying on randomness for player to discover the underground labs or the biome labs it is probably easier to just stuff one that is abandoned on the surface

[novel belfry]

Actually, there’s a random structure recently added that’s just the Mechanic’s old house

In vanilla Terraria’s (apparently bad) lore, it was the mechanic who was made to build the mech bosses
Perhaps a fun reference could be made to that by having the chest in that structure contain a few Draedon related items

And it must absolutely have Sus scrap

[hollow shell]

not the worst idea

Having a single deactivated power cell factory in the Mechanic's Shed structure could help immensely

[glass arch]

no vanillas lore is nonexistent
its not that its contradictory, its just that everything "official" is basically a massive shitpost

[hollow shell]

Exploring the surface is 1-dimensional, left-right

Exploring the underground is 2-dimensional, left-right-up-down

way easier to find stuff on the surface as a result

Plus the surface being comprised of walkable air while the underground must be chiseled out of rock

[glass arch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/680636603084963886/717733800746024981/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/680636603084963886/717733664804438097/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/680636603084963886/717733452165939200/unknown.png from lore disc pins

[novel belfry]

I am NOT forcing the (not official apparently) vanilla lore into the calamity mod, I merely wanted to reference it

[glass arch]

nah i wasnt talking about that part

i was talking about the "contradictory and therefore bad" part

it would still make sense in cal lore due to the mechanic being one of the most technologically advanced people in game aside from draedon himself

[deft yew]

The few little bits of organized lore Terraria ever had are pretty coherent imo

[drowsy plank]

i mean i dont mind it, making side labs worth it is nice but like, with the addition of lab turrets. which use sus scrap as part of it. there are only so many side labs in a world, and it's hard to find them, and there's NO renewable ways to get it besides making a new world

like idk it doesnt feel great

there's a reason i said to make it so rare

so ur incentivized to use the labs still

[hollow shell]

wait what

wait seriously??

Is this a mistake?

[drowsy plank]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hearty yew]

I mean, fuck vanilla lore, who says the Mechanic wouldn't have messed with Draedon's stuff too

[hearty yew]

I am not sure why it's that way...

[drowsy plank]

the funniest part is
while i have not finished the page

i dont even think lab turrets are worth it

like

you literally get all the elemental options too like why would u waste it on this

[golden sonnet]

some of the elemental options are post WoF

but others aren't so still not worth

[hollow shell]

ah yeah these don't require sussy scrap

Was sus scrap just used as the "lab material that only appears in non-specific labs"?

The devs not realizing that it is a world-limited resource?

[drowsy plank]

i can only assume so

[hearty yew]

sus scrap is clearly a mess of its own, independently of power cells

stopgap fixing it by making it extractinate is not helpful

[drowsy plank]

fair enough

[novel belfry]

I've heard that they're reworking the Armored Digger to become a series of mechanical worm minibosses

you could have the Sus scrap drop from these lads

[hollow shell]

That, might help with these lab-based issues
Not inherently, but, they could do something else helpful on top of being redesigned

[novel belfry]

actually yknow what

[worldly sparrow]

maybe you could grind them for cells

so you'd have a good option other than waiting for factories

instead you're waiting for armored diggers

[novel belfry]

there's technically three other "mechanical bosses made by draedon" in hardmode (CalClone, Astrum Aureus, and Plaguebringer Goliath)

the sus scrap could also drop from these guys

[wide river]

I guess I'll write this up as a suggestion
Though obviously I'll post it at a later date once the current Draedon Power Cell suggestion goes through voting

[worldly sparrow]

waiting for the computer to decrypt is absolutely horrible

though honestly if it was faster i would barely mind

[grim tusk]

Thus people suggesting a battery pack so often til it became a dont

If I’s ever add that I’d make it require charge to work so you still have to engage with the mechanic. Maybe also make it either: you need to open an UI just like a regular charging station OR hold it in the inventory and passively charge the weapons (will not work during boss fights unless I make it an accessory)

[golden tulip]

instead of removing charging for exos because its not clear youre supposed to do that why not just make it more clear

well that was probably already discussed so nvm

[hearty yew]

holy shit a battery pack was a don't?

that's very interesting

"remove mechanic"
"no"

idk who is even right in that situation

[wide river]

Yea it's been a Don't for a few months
There was a random influx of suggestions asking for a way to bypass the charge mechanic, so much so to the point where it was put on Frequently Suggested on the Don'ts doc

[hollow shell]

byeah

[golden tulip]

honestly id hate to see it getting changed to something simpler just because this is like, the first boss summoning method that is so completely unique

[sleek turret]

i agree with this point a lot

[hollow shell]

Indeed it is a hell of a lot better than just clicking an item you hold in your hand

[sleek turret]

i feel like people would check out labs more if there were more indicators that labs exist because i feel they're too ambiguous currently

[hearty yew]

that was part of the other thing, we were not going to accept "hold up item" for draedon

and we are looking into ways to exterminate "hold up item" for other bosses too

[golden tulip]

that is great to hear

[hollow shell]

pog

(kinda hard for me to feel pog about it considering it's something I've been advocating for years and is only getting done after I left the team
along with Absorber getting reworked, and similar

but
I will try not to be petty)

[buoyant idol]

Aureus could use another codebreaker like item to summon him. Perhaps using the codebreaker in the astral infection would work since it'd recognize its former master's radio waves.

[grim tusk]

There’s plenty or reasons why that would not be ideal

Although changing the summon item to something draedon related would be very good

But not codebreaker 2

[buoyant idol]

True, tying too many things to it would be lazy, but it'd help the "Who's Draedon" problem by locking a much earlier boss behind it.

[golden tulip]

everything draedon related gets a codebreaker
aureus, pbg too

[buoyant idol]

Plague could use a different means since it's quite mechanically different from the other machinations.

Maybe a structure powered by plague cells found in the jungle lab, a recall device of sorts for it.

How would this fit as a suggestion?

Add a way to convey that Supreme Calamitas summons the projectiles during the bullet phases

Anybody who has fought Supreme Calamitas can attest to how the bullet rains suddenly start and stop. The only way to tell is the small ring of dust that emanates from her when it starts. For such a powerful attack, there isn't any build up to it. No casting, no noises, just a ring of dust and a pause. Something more impactful such as a large ring of (harmless) fire that encompasses the whole arena for a moment or a bunch of magic circles flying outside of the arena's borders, anything to explain where they come from. Compared to the recent visual overhaul the fight got, it's rather surprising nothing has been changed about it.

[flint notch]

"recent" like 2 years ago (just a small nitpick dont mind me)

[buoyant idol]

It's been 2 years?

https://tenor.com/view/savingprivateryan-ww2-old-soldier-matt-damon-gif-4203998

[hollow shell]

Iban left the team almost a full year ago now

[buoyant idol]

[flint notch]

almost I think (november 2021)

[hollow shell]

but uh yeah
Having a visual indicator on the edge of the screen showing where the bullet hells are coming from would be nice for clarity yeah

[golden tulip]

suggestion to finally update moon hages

[hollow shell]

Even more so than a full screen effect showing when the bullet hell phases start and stop
You could have it appear on the specific edge that the bullets are going to come from, and do that for each new wave of them

[frosty trellis]

Unfortunately
That doesn't work
Because the bullets can spawn onscreen either in multiplayer or if you are failing about too fast

As I have a lot of experience with

[hollow shell]

No I don't mean each individual bullet, I just mean the general direction

If there's a wave that has bullets spawning from the left which travel to the right, it will be preceded by a big glow/flash on the left side of the screen

[frosty trellis]

Which, would also mean that bullets would have to spawn there client side which might cause a few issues

[hollow shell]

n

no

Leave everything about SCal exactly as it is
except add these big flashes
is what I'm saying

It's just to show new players what direction the next Hell wave is coming from

so that they don't need to commit it to rote memorization or pure reaction

(along with being more visually appealing/indicative, as right now when SCal reaches an HP threshold she just stops in place and the hells start)

[frosty trellis]

How would that work with suff like this though?
The stuff that spawned on screen due to moving around fast?

That is the issue I have with that kind of thing is that it can flash on the side and spawn almost on top of you because of that

[hollow shell]

I'm sorry if I'm not communicating my idea well enough but I don't know how I can be more clear

The direction the projectiles come from is baked into the fight

I'm trying to inform about sequences like these

[frosty trellis]

Oh

Huh

I

Never knew about that sequence

[golden tulip]

did you not know that

how are you a nohitter

[frosty trellis]

Nope I don't nohit scal I never had the need

[golden tulip]

ah

well thats why

[frosty trellis]

I am in nohitcord I haven't gotten close to scal

Leviana is too much of a pain haven't wanted to try again and have to redo aureus bc I lost the recording due to a laptop brick

[hollow shell]

Exactly why I think something like this would be needed

[worldly sparrow]

i just skipped from early pre-hm to scal myself in nohits

so yeah

[hollow shell]

Most players will just dodge the projs as they come and have no idea bout the sequence of it

[worldly sparrow]

the directions of the bullet hells fucked me up so much

[frosty trellis]

So it would flash once or repeating is my question

[ashen warren]

once at the beginning of the sequence probably?

[golden tulip]

i agree with rover and the suggestion here, that is a good idea

[ashen warren]

if it was repeating it might just be distracting more than helpful

[frosty trellis]

Fair

[golden tulip]

do you guys know the telegraph of infernum guards dashing?

[worldly sparrow]

i dont think there is one

[frosty trellis]

Yes those are literal lines across the screan

Well, rectangles

But you get the point

[golden tulip]

its very clear though

[frosty trellis]

Yeah

The thing I am worried about is I don't know exactly how those screen flashes would help convey bullet hell stuff if it comes from everywhere at once

It would seem more theatrical rather than practical in the heat of the moment

[hollow shell]

It could be a constant burning effect on the side of the screen while bullets are spawning from that side

At least the way I imagine it, it's not gonna be like a... the bullet hell starts and it goes LEFT-RIGHT-UP-UP quick, and then leeeft comes out and riiiight comes out and etc, so you need short-term memory
Nah

I mean like just showing where the bullets are coming from at any given time, preferably starting slightly before they actually come out, as a forewarning

[wide river]

Sorta like Asgore's spear attack telegraph?

[hollow shell]

Yeah I don't want it to be like that lol

[worldly sparrow]

i'd prefer if it flashed when it changed direction

[wide river]

Ok cool

[golden tulip]

also can any devs confirm moon hages are still being resprited or is that suggestable

[hollow shell]

It works for Asgore cuz the telegraphs are just as fast as the attacks themselves

[worldly sparrow]

because then you dont need to memorize during a boss

[royal tapir]

Flash when it starts, then a constant, less bright indicator for the rest of it would be ideal I’d say

[worldly sparrow]

yes

[frosty trellis]

Ic

Would it be the entire side of the screen or just the small part where the bullet comes from

Because the latter has edge case problems

[worldly sparrow]

also such a change would add a tiny touch of visual flare to the scal fight so that'd be cool too

[hearty yew]

scal was supposed to light all the walls on fire with a giant cosmetic attack or emit some huge pillar of hellfire while stationary or SOMETHING to indicate that something was happening but that never happened

[hollow shell]

I guess I want it to serve the same kind of purpose that the Beep-Beep-Beep-CHUNK has in Beat Block Galaxy
https://youtu.be/EN4X7x4w65Q?t=184

[wide river]

Oh god that level
Yeah I see where you're going with this

[ashen warren]

I don't even need to watch i know exactly what you're referring to

[crude geode]

The internet when it

[hollow shell]

subtract by eight

byeah

Overall I dunno how much this is needed considering players have been reacting to the bullets as they come in just fine. Mostly fine.
I don't want to create the same kind of problem that having a line telegraph for a slow-moving projectile has (exo mech clusterfuck)

But I do feel like it'd be an improvement

[frosty trellis]

Am I the only one confused on what rover means here? (I know jack shit about mario so yeah)

[crude geode]

Yes

[hollow shell]

I wish I had a competent video editing software so I can make a mock-up of what I mean in practice

[crude geode]

Mpg be like

Also yeah fair

[golden tulip]

i assume he means the blocks flashing

[frosty trellis]

Sorry that I am not someone who was ever into mario

Flashing..?

[wide river]

Me remembering the double time version of that level
Anyway

[golden tulip]

i really dont know how to explain it better. it has been explained multiple times in the last 10 minutes

[deft yew]

I love Exos telegraphs I love being useless

Line telegraphs, that is

Ares’s arm charge things help a lot

[golden tulip]

these things

they flash

before doing something

now turn that into scal's wall

[frosty trellis]

Oh they do? I never noticed lmao

[frosty trellis]

Okay so that bring me back to this question that no one answered

[deft yew]

It’s a music sync gimmick in the case of Mario levels

[golden tulip]

why would you light up the entire screen if the telegraph is for the one side where the bullets come from

[ashen warren]

don't remind me

[deft yew]

the entire side of the screen

[golden tulip]

my bad

[frosty trellis]

Because unfortunately bullets can spawn on your screen if you move around too much which uh, can cause some weird problems if you want to do stuff like that unless the small portion of the screen thing only comes if a bullet actively collides with it which sounds like a nightmare to code

[deft yew]

Thumb

Sorry, what?

[golden tulip]

i think youre thinking too hard about this

just light up the corresponding wall before firing

[frosty trellis]

No I just have experience with the bullets spawning on my screen in bh5

[deft yew]

[golden tulip]

i give up

[hollow shell]

In Beat Block Galaxy, there are yellow and green blocks, and only one of the two are active at a time. When one's active, the other is invisible & intangible.
They switch their tangibility on a consistent timer. The switch is forewarned by the music going "Beep Beep Beep", and the switch happens on the subsequent beat with a "CHUNK" sound. So the level is this musical alternation between the yellow and green blocks.

In this analogy with SCal, the "Beep Beep Beep" equivalent would be one side of the screen glowing slightly brighter to show that a bullet hell wave is about to come from the direction of the glowing side,
and the "CHUNK" (the blocks switching) would be a brighter flash or constant fire, on that same side of the screen as was indicated, with the actual bullets starting to come out from that direction

[frosty trellis]

Entire side of the screen in this situation for those waves, alright fair that makes the edge case not really an issue

That makes more sense and I get where you are coming from there and what I thought you meant originally and was just trying to see exactly how that work work. Since it's in waves I can see how that kind of thing just visually instead of music sync could work

[hollow shell]

Aight cool

[royal tapir]

Damn how'd this get missed

I'll just blame Rebecca she's a good scapegoat

[worldly sparrow]

lol

[wide river]

[fervent orbit]

[hearty yew]

Also can be seen in Celeste's timed block puzzles. The music stops and is replaced with a metronome that makes it clear how to do the timing puzzles

[hollow shell]

Yeah true
I feel like Beat Block is a bit more apt considering it's slower paced than Celeste's,
and in Beat Block there's gaps when the telegraph beeps aren't playing and it's just music, whereas in Celeste it's more continuous

[coral carbon]

I entirely agree with the power cell suggestion I HATE waiting 😭

[hollow shell]

(There is probably a way more apt video game comparison I could be making, that is more visual and doesn't have to do with music sync)

(The Undertale flashing ❕ boxes from the Asriel and Sans fights came to mind
Especially Sans considering when he changes gravity around, the danger zones appear on the different sides of the box)

(cept those're more fast paced and per-attack compared to what I'm imagining for SCal)

[hearty yew]

they're much closer to what you mentioned with asgore

(obviously. because they are from the same game.)

[hollow shell]

Asgore does have a move where the danger zones indicate like
a stream of fireballs
doesn't he

That's closer

[hearty yew]

Yes

He fills one side of the box with a chaotic spray of fireballs and it gives frantic warnings right before that happens

[worldly sparrow]

truly one of the calamities of all time was the human-monster war

[lucid marsh]

Hehe

Undertale attacks are cool and good inspiration for calamity bosses

Yharon's fire ring attack could be way cooler if it gave you infinite flight and was longer, acting like that one asgore attack

Wait this is actually like two different attacks I'm thinking of

Which sort of resemble it in different ways

[ruby plover]

not like the bullet hells need inf flight

[wide river]

Infernum Polterghast has an attack like that, doesn't it?

Like, almost the exact same as you describe it

[ruby plover]

inf polter has some asgore rings, yeah

[worldly sparrow]

those aint asgore rings

that attack is just super hexagon

[small timber]

ok I am not sure how much this suggestion make sense because there are definitely other mods that provide it, but I think this function just make sense
and because they just added flight time bar and I feel the fact that terraria somehow don't have this (yet) is super weird

[hollow shell]

(Those two are quite comparable actually..)

[worldly sparrow]

yes

i know

[hollow shell]

still gotta play Infernum

[hollow shell]

Sorry what exactly are you talking about

[small timber]

wait I haven't posted the suggestion, 1 moment

[hollow shell]

heh

[frosty trellis]

Oh looking at the storm weaver thing

Maybe
Just Maybe
Make storm weave and LC's lighting balls client side like empresses spear's are in vanilla

Where every player in multiplayer get their own set to dodge independent and uninteractable from another player

[small timber]

ok done

[buoyant idol]

You made a typo, could you fix that rq

[worldly sparrow]

sugg bot is angy

and incorrect

[buoyant idol]

The video is too big

[small timber]

ok I thought below 8MB is good enough

[buoyant idol]

Wait

It's below 8MB?

[small timber]

yeah, seems like the limit is even lower now

[ruby plover]

7.7 it says

[ripe owl]

Should've become higher though

@inland saddle your bot seems to fuck things up again

[small timber]

my previous ML one was below 6MB

[inland saddle]

Huh

Odd

Will look into

I need to update the cap anyways

[ripe owl]

👍

[hollow shell]

ye
Discord allows 25MB by default now

(also what mod is that that you are using to show the bars and potion cooldown?)

(I used one in the past but it sucked a lot more than that one looks like it does)

[small timber]

Lan's Simple Healthbar

there is 1 more that also do the same called HP Awareness, but that one I don't think show HP potion CD

[hollow shell]

nice thank you

[small timber]

ok should be less than 5MB now

also Hadal Stew apparently is 60 seconds potion sickness eventhough tooltip explicitly stated 50 seconds, but I haven't confirmed if other people is the same so I haven't reported in bug report or is just wrong tooltip

[hollow shell]

(The one I used was Widgets back on 1.3 https://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/widgets.86857/
and it was not programmed well, half the configs didn't work and stuff would appear and disappear randomly, or not obey your repositioning)

[hollow shell]

I'll see if the source reveals anything

I haven't actually downloaded the .003 source yet so gimme a minute

[frosty trellis]

Should probably do .004 source since that's the current version
Plat armor was too absurd

[hollow shell]

They released .004 already?

We haven't been given the source for it yet

[wide river]

It was released yesterday, yea

[frosty trellis]

Yeah

It was mostly due to platinum armor

[hollow shell]

alright

[frosty trellis]

For if you weren't aware what the plat armor bug was, it gave 10% damage per defense instead of .1% damage per defense

Needless to say that needed to be patched immediately

[hollow shell]

lol

[wide river]

400% damage was a smidge strong as you might expect

[worldly sparrow]

great sugg

[hollow shell]

Okay yes looking in the source it is indeed meant to have a different potion sickness duration, so that's a bug rather than an incorrect tooltip

[glad tundra]

this is an amazing suggestion

[oblique geyser]

LOL

[worldly sparrow]

lmao at least most people couldn't discover wulfrum glitch by accident

[north oracle]

@civic ruin apart from the... other issues with this suggestion, there is a rule that explicitly doesn't allow suggesting to readd old content

[frosty trellis]

The suggestion of all time

[worldly sparrow]

plat armor required no setup

it was just a set bonuis

[glad tundra]

this is so persuasive i thi nk fabsol shouold listen to it

[worldly sparrow]

rip its gone

[frosty trellis]

It appears it was deleted immediately

[north oracle]

dead

[hollow shell]

Sorry but that is not going to be re-added for a number of reasons

[civic ruin]

where are the old wulfrum armor sets

[hollow shell]

(by me cuz I knew 50 people were going to laugh at it)

[frosty trellis]

1.3 tMod

[frosty trellis]

I figured

[north oracle]

the first example

[frosty trellis]

As well as malice mode

Which is the easiest way to play Malice probably

[wide river]

1.3 tMod is really the answer to a lot of the re-addition suggestions

[hollow shell]

Gone, but they were quite boring regardless, mono-color in appearance and minor stat buffs as their only benefit

[small timber]

"Add Malik Mod which resprites Yharon as Winged Dragon of Ra"

[north oracle]

you want something readded? Play on the version where it exists

[golden sonnet]

so based

[frosty trellis]

EXACTLY
JUST TELL THEM TO GO BACK
IF THEY DON'T LIKE IT THERE ARE PLENTY OF WAYS TO GO BACK TO THE OLD SHIT

This isn't a live service gacha game older versions exists and are perfectly playable

[small timber]

I ACTIVATE POT OF PAIN, IT ALLOWS ME TO DRAW

[frosty trellis]

FRICK YOU

[worldly sparrow]

coldheart my beloved

[wide river]

Sometimes that's not very convincing though
I remember seeing a person in a different server ask if someone could make a mod that removes 1.4 features, and when they were told to play 1.3 instead, they simply refused

[golden sonnet]

Vehemenc my beloved

I miss vehemenc

[north oracle]

[hollow shell]

I still refer to Vehemence as "Vehemenc" in my head

[small timber]

yo I just noticed pot of pain is the self debuff item we need all along the way for Purity

[golden sonnet]

same

[north oracle]

vehemenc

[frosty trellis]

I don't because I am too baby of a cal player

[small timber]

just have to cope with 16 minutes of vulnerability hex
and beat Hekate

[frosty trellis]

1.5.1.6 start me baby compared to the rest of y'all

[frosty trellis]

That's like
Not even half bad bc vuln hex does 0 dot

[wide river]

In previous versions of the Calamity Mod, the Vehemence used to drop from the Wall of Flesh in Prepare to Die mode.
The weapon was previously referred to as "Vehemenc" in the mod's source files.
When the weapon used to drop from Wall of Flesh, the source name was properly "Vehemence". It was changed to "Vehemenc" when it was moved to drop from Supreme Calamitas in update 1.1.7.921, causing previous instances of "Vehemence" items to become invalid and unusable. This was done in order to prevent those who had obtained it before the update to suddenly have an overpowered item early.
In the 2.0.0.001 update, most source names were changed to be consistent with ingame names including changing Vehemenc back to Vehemence, meaning that if a player were to have kept an old Vehemence from before the 1.1.7.921 update then update to version 2.0.0.001 or higher, the Vehemence would remain.

Take from wiki's trivia

[small timber]

vulnerability hex cut your defense and DR and then cut your flight time in half

[wide river]

It's very funny

[glass arch]

i still call vehemence vehemenc because its too funny to not

[hollow shell]

"meaning that if a player were to have kept an old Vehemence from before the 1.1.7.921 update then update to version 2.0.0.001 or higher, the Vehemence would remain."
I've never read this part, this is an awesome inclusion

It's so implausible, I love it

[frosty trellis]

But the life regen

[wide river]

Someone would have to not play Calamity for over 6 years for that to work
The fact that it does though is amazing

[frosty trellis]

But also fair yeah vuln hex dr killing is the only thing that makes facetanking SCal at all difficult

No other attack comes close

[small timber]

ok yeah got sidetracked, then I will bug report it

[novel belfry]

ah yes, vehemence
it used to be like

It fires a calamitous energy spike, which deals more damage depending on how much HP an enemy has left, to a maximum of 1,000,000 damage.

The 1,000,000 damage cap doesn't include Critical hits, allowing this weapon to sometimes deal 2,000,000 damage.

oh my god thats hilarious

[ripe owl]

That's absolutely golden

[cobalt pewter]

baby

[novel belfry]

imagine if calamitas just has the ability to summon this lil guy to allow her to like surveilience

[ruby plover]

supreme soul seekers if they were cool

[novel belfry]

im now calling this the BRIMSTONEBABY and there's nothing you can do to stop me

[coral carbon]

what was this suggestion?

[wide river]

Something something "bring back malice mode"

[novel belfry]

you want malice mode? go play gfb on calamity

[golden sonnet]

holy shit, GFB really is just better malice

[hollow shell]

"better" is a funny word for it

[glass arch]

you want malice mode? go play release 1.5 cal and s u f f e r

[novel belfry]

just a fair warning, the bosses are stupid difficult, emphasis on "stupid"

[glass arch]

i mean
its malice
but funnier

[golden sonnet]

both are stupid and "difficulty" based, while GFB is funny too

[cobalt pewter]

at least fuckin gfb wasn't born from an otherwise innocent suggestion

[novel belfry]

Get fixed boi's name has such an hilarious origin

[cobalt pewter]

it's fully Fab's silly decision to do gfb proper

[coral carbon]

oh im not aware of the origins of malice mode

[cobalt pewter]

I know way too much about it

[cobalt pewter]

because I made that exact suggestion

[glass arch]

yeah

[coral carbon]

oh.

[novel belfry]

seriously?

[glass arch]

it was a sugg to make the legendary drops guaranteed via some extra challenge

[hollow shell]

Malice was an attempt to give the Legendary weapons a consistent obtainment method-

yeah

[cobalt pewter]

not entirely, but it took part in the birth

the original idea had nothing to do with make a dumb fuck difficulty mode

[hollow shell]

Then it spiraled into a full difficulty mode
Then it died

[novel belfry]

Oh, i thought you were saying that get fixed boi's absurd changes were suggested by pizza

not the malice mode

[glass arch]

oh no gfb was extirely dev oriented

they didnt have much to do during the port so

they shitposted

[cobalt pewter]

this shit

[cobalt pewter]

oh that message

I implied that malice was made that way and not gfb

[novel belfry]

honestly, you could still do what the suggestion stated and used "certain conditions" to grant players cool legendaries

but alas, malice mode.

[cobalt pewter]

well legendaries are dead now

[novel belfry]

yep, dead as hell

[hollow shell]

"We need a way for Legendaries to be consistently obtainable"
'I know, they can drop from enraged bosses. I'll make this item that makes bosses always enraged'
"Well, it would be kinda weird if only some bosses got drops when enraged. Oh right, we can put RIVs behind it too!"
'Well, if every single boss has this increased aggressive behavior toggled by an item, this is basically a difficulty mode, right?'
"Sure! ... wait. We made it so very few items were locked behind difficulty modes already, because our philosophy is that difficulty modes should just be the level of challenge the player is comfortable with, and it leads to questionable balance locking things like dashes or extra acc slots behind experiences that are supposed to be harder"
'You're right. Let's remove all those exclusive items from Malice Mode.'
[ORIGINAL PURPOSE DESTROYED]
[NET RESULT IS HAVING A DIFFICULTY MODE HIGHER THAN DEATH FOR NO REASON]
"We should probably just get rid of this thing huh."
'Yeah...'

[cobalt pewter]

AMAZING

the lore

[worldly sparrow]

great thought

[hollow shell]

iirc this is exactly what happened

Over the course of like, a year?

[novel belfry]

i know infernum has a few stuff locked behind doing challenges (try not to exceed 50% on the sulphur meter while fighting Aquatic Scourge to get a cute doggo pet you can actually pet, and defeat night providence to get a stupid strong accessory)

[ruby plover]

difference being its a unique challenge for each

malice was cool while it lasted, ish, but it was kinda destined to die once the special drops got murdered

[novel belfry]

i remember there was that really cool playthrough someone did

[small timber]

what we should do is lock every post-ML material to Revengeance and Death Mode since post-ML gears are good enough to beat post-ML bosses in normal and Expert

[novel belfry]

the mad mode series

[small timber]

problem solved world peace is achieved once again

[cobalt pewter]

that is exactly what I had in mind back then

damn

[coral carbon]

the GP in question

[small timber]

there are no "a few items are locked behind difficulty mode"
if majority of items are locked behind difficulty mode

[novel belfry]

and iirc at the end he decided that malice mode should probably not be removed

[hollow shell]

Make it so some items are locked behind higher difficulty modes while others are locked behind lower difficulty modes

Make it so your essentially playing Eversion with the difficulty mode items, where you're changing between more peaceful and more aggressive levels of reality in order to reach your end goal

[frosty trellis]

I absolutely fucking Despise the philosophy that higher difficulty MUST come with higher rewards

There is nothing wrong with difficulty just for the sake of difficulty so long as the officially supported ones and not the meme ones are fair

Malice if it was balanced could've frankly stayed and nothing would be wrong with it just being difficult for the sake of being diffuclt, that's what a difficulty mode is, to make things more difficult

There does not need And shouldn't be an insensitive to play harder difficulty modes outside of personal player achievement. Rev doesn't need exclusive items to help people out it's a difficulty mode if it's gonna be harder you know what you're signing up for, same with death. Death mode is a great example of this

That's just my take byeah

[small timber]

lower difficulty gets the defensive items so you can't die
higher difficulty gets all the offensive weapon so you can just dodge and don't get hit

perfect system with 0 flaws whatsoever

[ruby plover]

i just kinda like higher difficulties having some kind of rewards at certain points, no matter what they are, just to be like oo nice

feelsgood

[frosty trellis]

If it's cosmetic it's whatever

[golden sonnet]

^

[frosty trellis]

But it really shouldn't be like fucking Sealocket in infernum

You do a challenge and then you suddenly cannot die

[ruby plover]

isnt that a balance issue and not a difficulty challenge lock issue

[golden sonnet]

infernum challenge drops are ridiculous

they were like not balanced at all

[ruby plover]

hello

[hollow shell]

There is something of an issue with Malice staying even with no rewards because then the dev team has an entire mode they need to upkeep with balance

The devs tried to leave it unbalanced and say "It's just the unfair mode, deal with it" but that didn't work

[frosty trellis]

It doesn't matter difficulty should not lock items with a higher power level
If they want to lock anything behind a difficulty it should be like Cosmic Plushie where it's purely cosmetic and doesn't affect gameplay

[ruby plover]

yeah thats the very unideal way to treat it

[ruby plover]

except that you literally cant fight argus without infernum

you dont play the mod without the mode

[cobalt pewter]

second sentence became gfb in the end, which is still funny

[small timber]

what does sealocket do again, like halved a hit taken every 30 seconds?

[ruby plover]

its a large amount of DR for 2 hits, every 90 secs

[novel belfry]

was it the "expert" drop of him

[hollow shell]

So a Flesh Totem x2?

[novel belfry]

also during the dr you get 12% increased damage

[ruby plover]

yep

i think challenge drops can be done well

[novel belfry]

still didn't help me against the nightmare that was Profaned Guardians

[small timber]

I think it is the fact that the devs didn't say "it is an unfair mode, deal with it" which is why Malice didn't work

[cobalt pewter]

sounds more of a balance issue to me

[ruby plover]

and they can be better if they are not so strongly tailored to being offensive

or defensive, whatever

[small timber]

because it is advertised as "it is hard for normal player, and you probably should come back off-tier"

which implies "it is balanced for good player on-tier"

[frosty trellis]

Okay? And what about it?
It doesn't justify having crazy items like Sea Locket and BCS

Stuff like the Blahaj pet and all is fine you get a nice cosmetic reward for a challenge. It's something you get for personal achievement not because you know there is an op item behind it that defeats the purpose of a higher diffucilty or challenge is locking out higher tier equipment behind it

[nimble notch]

wait what was added in 2.0.3.3 and 2.0.3.4

[ruby plover]

they can also be better and more of an accomplishment thing if you need to do somethin specific to get it

i mean achievements

[hollow shell]

Yes indeed that was the original uhh excuse

That later turned into literally calling the mode "subjective" in red text

[novel belfry]

poor wording honestly

[cobalt pewter]

cal now asks for social security number to verify your raw skills before proceeding

[hollow shell]

#changelogs

[nimble notch]

sick ty

[ruby plover]

💀 whatever man

[frosty trellis]

I just hate the premise

[ruby plover]

like, we can maybe nerf them a bit

okay? and we dont

[golden sonnet]

"we"

[ruby plover]

infernum

for the items we add anyway

which is like none

[novel belfry]

and even if you went off tier, this was also the update that added the horror that was...
Reactive Damage Reduction

[ruby plover]

i dont see BV drops as challenge drops

its an entire boss

[novel belfry]

which is such a stupid concept at all that I am baffled the devs even thought it was a good idea

[cobalt pewter]

the fact that they tried to spin malice as The rematch mode was honestly so incredibly funny

[north oracle]

And it’s less of an issue now that the mage drop isn’t the best weapon for polter

[cobalt pewter]

when they don't bother enforcing that fact ingame

[ruby plover]

yeah cos i nerfed it to be NORMAL

yippo

[north oracle]

Myrandiel (is that how it’s spelt?) is still a bit op

[novel belfry]

no amount of reasoning will convince me that the devs seriously could not figure out why RDR was a bad idea from the start

[north oracle]

And glassblower is just strong iirc

[small timber]

they should literally just make Malice Mode tooltip this:

This Mode is aimed to be purely an optional challenges for those who seek a higher difficulty
Play at your own discretion

or something along the line

[ruby plover]

i have plans for myrindael as well, so i dont see it staying as strong for the future

[north oracle]

That’s good

[cobalt pewter]

that's rich

you think terraria players read anything in this game?

[small timber]

I don't care about Reactive Damage Reduction whatsoever

[cobalt pewter]

[north oracle]

BCS is still a bit absurd in general lol

[small timber]

if a mode is meant to be an optional difficulty purely for challenge, the enemy don't get deleted in 1 second should be part of it

[hollow shell]

That's basically what we/they did do
jsut phrased a little more poorly

[ruby plover]

BCS is inherently busted, if its nerfed too much its just not an item youll ever use

[frosty trellis]

Nerfing doesn't change the fact that it isn't really good game design
We all know Infernum is harder than Death it's advertised as such it's hard and hate it or not it being a higher difficulty mode that changes bosses drastically conceptually is a great idea to give a taste of other ideas for things

And no, I don't count Berefet Vassel stuff as that's a new boss and new content so new drops from that is fine so long as they are balanced it's an intended boss you are meant to fight

The problem I have is locking behind BCS and Sealocket and all that shit for what is literally just something you can come back to later and get them for free when you have a tier or 2 better gear or just a really hard challenge that shouldn't lock behind something strong it should literally be an achievement or cosmetic I do not see the reasoning behind adding that shit

[hollow shell]

Exact quote was "This mode is subjective, play how you want, don't expect to live."

[ruby plover]

okay

aint readin allat

[small timber]

phrased a lot more poorly, like, absurdly more poolry
because the previous wording make it sound like "yeah this is a step above Death Mode, you have to be good to play it"

instead of like
"we didn't balance this whatsoever LMAO"

[ruby plover]

go to dms or sumin you dont need to infernum vent here really, surely

[hollow shell]

hm

I hope that a heated conflict doesn't emerge in the next 20 seconds

[novel belfry]

Problem is, Malice Mode once told you to go off tier and treat the mode as a rematch mode
but by the time you come in and attempt to rematch, say malice Destroyer, TDR completely neutered your damage

It was terrible

[small timber]

that is the problem, it is an excuse

the entire "do it off-tier" is literally an excuse to make malice sounds more reasonable (or "if you cant do it it is probably just you need better gear")

instead of just say "ya we didn't balance this have fun LOL"

[wide river]

I feel like suggestions regulars and Infernum do not mix unfortunately
Whenever Infernum is brought up here it's very rare to not have a massive argument start