suggestions-discussion

[wide river]

TRUE

[drowsy plank]

ture

[sleek turret]

give this man a true

star react this guy

[ashen warren]

it's also formatted like, what was their name... gbradley's suggs? or mb i'm thinking of the wrong dude

[drowsy plank]

was not around for these ancient times

[coral carbon]

ignoring everything else about this suggestion I don't know if they even knew the Operator NPC was a Lobotomy corp reference 💀

[grim tusk]

Wait aint it older than LobCorp?

[drowsy plank]

April 9, 2018

[weary ledge]

WHAT?!

WHY DOES IT DROP A WHIP THAT DOES MELEE AND ROGUE DAMAGE AND DO +616% CRIT DAMAGE ON STEALTH STRIKES?!

WHY DOES IT USE THE TERRARIAN?

WHY DOES IT JUST PREVENT ALL TRUE MELEE PLAY?!

[atomic shell]

that sugg makes me want to get a lobotomy

[grim tusk]

Lemme fetch Exolotl

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/720282640795828405/889604323368140880/unknown.png

Hmm I wonder who that is…

[drowsy plank]

[wide river]

Hmmm who could it be

[royal tapir]

Wow what a lad

[north oracle]

lmfao

[coral carbon]

I dont know who that is 😭

[atomic shell]

i would totally use exolotl tho

[serene tendon]

I actually got the 616% reference. A couple translations of The Bible use that number instead of 666

[weary ledge]

[atomic shell]

THE BIBLE???

this is a the binding of isaac reference

[weary ledge]

:boarheadexploding:

[serene tendon]

This is obviously a joke, but in the not too distant future some people might actually think that

[atomic shell]

can’t wait!

[serene tendon]

I guess I could have guessed as much, considering this is a very left-leaning discord

[pine star]

technically btd6 also references this value

the total RBE of a moab is 616

[serene tendon]

Probably that one's just coincidence tbh, the numbers that go into it make sense

[atomic shell]

politics is an isaac reference!

[worldly sparrow]

W cog sugg as always

[north oracle]

there are too many based suggestions
quick, post more shit ones

[wide river]

[worldly sparrow]

we already have the entire dumpster full from that one sugg

[coral carbon]

i gotchu.

[north oracle]

TRUE

[coral carbon]

"is it that bad?"

[golden sonnet]

I know most fishing drops and NPC shop items are locked behind later bosses because it makes the player actually explore the new content instead of skipping through fishing

same reason abyss chests are in crates post slime god, boomstick is post queen bee, dungeon mage and ranger drops are sold post golem, etc

it's like this so by the time you get polterplasm, you have already killed polter, so thus you have already experience the new dungeon, etc

so i feel like as much as this suggestion makes sense, it kinda conflicts with a lot of precedent

[buoyant idol]

To get to a good dungeon fishing spot, you'd need to fight some enemies first.

[golden sonnet]

you can get one pre HM

either by prefarming crates, or just unsafe walls

[buoyant idol]

Prefarming doesn't work anymore, but unsafe walls is something

[coral carbon]

Prefarming crates doesn't work yeah

[golden sonnet]

how would it not? there is no difference between a HM crate and post ML crate

[buoyant idol]

Oh, I was assuming pre hm

But what do you really miss from the new dungeon? A buffed dungeon spirit?

[golden sonnet]

I was just saying you can get a safe dungeon spot all the way at pre HM, so I disagree with this

[buoyant idol]

True, my point is invalid now that you say that

[golden sonnet]

fair tbh, post ML dungeon isn't very exciting

ectoplasm, but like.... again...

[buoyant idol]

You miss a single new enemy and a natural Polterghast spawn, but anybody who'd fish for it likely has encountered Polterghast.

[oblique geyser]

Bad SIS's often read like Hypixel Skyblock items

[wide river]

Polterghast really doesn't lend itself well to that
It's a coalescence of spirits so what do you get? Dungeon Spirit 2!

Hopefully with the Polterghast rework that fixes stuff

[buoyant idol]

Idea: Just make the spirits fished up as well

[wide river]

They haunt the waters

[buoyant idol]

Unironically I think that'd be the best solution and most interesting one at that.

[novel belfry]

i like how he says "if anything seems out of place then by all means remove it"

[novel belfry]

Plasm-Morays

[brazen minnow]

Sand dollar is way stronger than the snap clam so I don't ever use the snap clam. They should be balanced to be both viable.

[crude geode]

#1042197406776827914

[grim tusk]

I foresee a devaluation on Sand Dollar soon

[brazen minnow]

Snap clam should deal 953 dps

[grim tusk]

And its debuff

[sleek turret]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AYOjVwVWiPBydZyywewkHKcoXPxdTEkhkXcZTJCIMvw/edit?usp=drivesdk made this shit

probably needs more elaboration but it's a base alredy

comments are enabled btw if y'all want to suggest or note something from the doc

[worldly sparrow]

wow you really went hard

i could totally simplify that enough to make it into an actual suggestion

though honestly the spreadsheet could go in a different doc

it should also be specified that only the hell shadow chests should be post-sg

the abyss shadow chests can stay post-skele

[sleek turret]

i was going to make another doc unrelated to the sugg and related to another sugg (shield tiering) but i feel this one was easier to do so

[worldly sparrow]

so yeah i can turn that into a sugg

[sleek turret]

yeah just use that as a base tbh

[crude geode]

I remember suggesting something like this

I deleted the google doc regarding it sadly

bc I don't use google docs anymore

#suggestions-voting message

[sleek turret]

approval hell

[crude geode]

yep

[worldly sparrow]

ok does this look good?

Re-tier the Hell Shadow Chests to Post-Slime God
Post-Skeletron is a peculiar stage. You get many various items out this stage, coming from various sources; Shadow Chests, Abyssal Chests, Dungeon Chests, etc.

Of the three chests unlocked with Skeletron's defeat, Dungeon Chests tend to have the most outclassed/replaceable loot, even by weapons on the same tier.
A lot of these are immediately replaceable with stronger items, typically because they're upgrade-able as soon as you get them, such as —
Cobalt Shield -> Obsidian Shield
Handgun -> Phoenix Blaster
Others get outclassed by their hell shadow chest counterparts -
Blue Moon -> Sunfury and Magic Missile -> Flamelash.
There’s also the case for other items, such as Water Bolt which is a debatable choice between Flare Bolt (though it isn't a shadow chest weapon)
The Valor item is totally replaceable with the Cascade yoyo, even though that Cascade is a rare recipeless item to obtain.
Here’s a spreadsheet on the items in particular for easy reading:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s2YxhWXfpb6p6pznhYryas-fT0UHyxAZOyKA9KDNUNY/edit
As a result of this, many dungeon chest weapons find themselves outclassed and in direct competition with weapons of their own tier, with similar function.
Also, it feels weird that the dungeon weapons share a tier with abyss chests and hell shadow chests.
In addition, hell shadow chest weapons tend to do very well on WoF anyways, so moving them to Post-Slime God wouldn't require much balancing at all.
So, maybe if shadow chests were moved to post-slime god, a lot of the dungeon chest weapons might get utilized more as they wouldn't be instantly replaced.

[crude geode]

sounds okay

[wide river]

I think something that's not really brought up is how the chests would be retiered
Would they require a key obtained from Slime God? Would Slime God just automatically unlock the chests like Skeletron does with the Abyss Chests? Or would the chests just be openable after Slime God with a Shadow Key normally?

[worldly sparrow]

true

i feel it should just be openable with a normal shadow key after slime god

[sleek turret]

remove shadow key from dungeon chests and make it crafteable maybe?

[worldly sparrow]

sure

maybe obby + gold key + purified gel?

but theres a flaw

[sleek turret]

yea maybe

[worldly sparrow]

abyss chests also need shadow key to open im 90% sure

[sleek turret]

no?

[worldly sparrow]

ok so the 10% where i wasnt sure was right

[sleek turret]

they only need to skeletron be defeated now i believe

let me check rq

[wide river]

Indeed

It got changed so Skeletron automatically unlocks them

[worldly sparrow]

ooh nice

[crude geode]

pretty sure there used to be a shadow key recipe

[worldly sparrow]

im behind on my abyss info

[wide river]

With the message "The First Dryad's vines deem you worthy of their blessing" or something like that

[worldly sparrow]

no way silva real?????

[wide river]

Yep

[sleek turret]

another doubt though

for items like obsidian shield would require purified gel

[worldly sparrow]

obby shield isnt in shadow chests

[small timber]

no that don't really make sense

[sleek turret]

because it's crafted

[worldly sparrow]

cobalt shield is dungeon chests and it gets upgraded with obby skull

it'd still be post-skelly

[crude geode]

the issue is the insta upgrade

[worldly sparrow]

im just suggesting to re-tier shadow chests save that for another sugg

[crude geode]

but also who fucking cares obsidian skin potion exists

[sleek turret]

True

yea i'd keep it post-skeletron

[small timber]

I know people hate "instant upgrade", but one consideration of instant upgrade is that they often are the "reward for grinding"

in this case the actual item you get on progression is the Obsidian Shield, not Cobalt Shield

because (for some reason), hellstone is treated as post-Skeletron (at least vanilla progression wise) or something which about means you (supposedly) explore the Underworld at post-skeletron

hence why Obsidian Shield is an upgrade that give fire block immunity, and a lot of dungeon craft are upgraded with Underworld related material

Underworld shadowchest being locked behind a different progression, maybe

because one of the main thing about "separating instant upgrade" is to make sure it doesn't feel like shit to use the raw item just because you want to make a vanilla combination item more far apart

for example if you separate cross necklace and star cloak it will feel like complete shit to use star cloak alone unless you buff it to unreasonable degree, and cross necklace also will feel lacking because "if star cloak effect is not super significant why don't let us combine the item"

people just hate that they can acquire everything but for some reason it is hard locked behind certain progression for really no good reason other than "no instant upgrade"

[sleek turret]

yeah i agree with the obsidian shield part

[crude geode]

star cloak as an item doesn't really exist then

[worldly sparrow]

aight imma do it

[sleek turret]

this is similar to the bob + horseshoe situation

[crude geode]

why not just delete the star cloak and shove the effect onto cross necklace naturally

[small timber]

if all of those items can be acquired just as easy as taking it out of cheat sheet, sure no instant upgrade make sense

but these items often have a grinding process behind it which require effort, especially for less experienced player

for example post-skeletron dungeon which is not only annoying to deal with but also require long travel time each time you die

[worldly sparrow]

its posted

[small timber]

because can't delete vanilla item
and star cloak combine into other item but cross necklace much less

[crude geode]

star cloak can also just easily be some random material or something

it applies to certain cal items byeah

[worldly sparrow]

also star cloak is really good on destroyer

[crude geode]

not really in the headspace to argue this

[small timber]

why use a random material when you have an item already in place (that cannot be removed anyway) that already have said distinct effect

[sleek turret]

i mean if we do put shadow chests on post-sg it would require doing a second hell trip for shadow chests i'd say

or atleast imo because the first one is post-evil1 due to hellstone stuff

in reality it just separates the 2 trips a bit longer from each other because you'd go for shadow chests post-skeletron

[worldly sparrow]

shadow key has always made you take another trip to hell

[cobalt pewter]

I'm still in the camp that if you really want to put instant upgrades, you need to make the acc materials to be worthwhile on their own and the combination transforms the effect to be unique from its materials

this is the biggest problem imo with acc combinations in Terraria

it's just additions over additions, bloat over bloat

but then again no one will bother to change that so I'm just talking to a wall

[sleek turret]

good on it's own acc + another good on it's own acc moment

which is like accs with honey stuff like stinger neckacle

[wide river]

No one will change it because that's not the Terraria way !!!!!!!
I do agree with you that combo accessories need to not just be their components but again in one accessory

[sleek turret]

mana flower combo accs

[small timber]

there is not even that many "mega combo accessory" left, the only one I can think of is Ankh Shield (which should by design have combined immunity + some more)

and just rampart

[wide river]

Putrid Scent combos are cool because they actually ditch a part when upgrading (removing the crit chance and damage)

[small timber]

for the rest is there even accessories that is just a combined effect, outside of vanilla ones like charm of myth/star veil

[cobalt pewter]

putrid scent's stats are just an excuse for it to stay as an accessory

[sleek turret]

unrelated but rampart is a shield right

[cobalt pewter]

no

visually, yes

but it doesn't provide kb immunity

which is pretty standard to most shields

[wide river]

?

[cobalt pewter]

wait

I am drunk

[wide river]

It inherits the knockback immunity from Paladin's Shield

[sleek turret]

thanks for the info (will be used in the shield tiering doc)

[cobalt pewter]

oh yeah I forgot it needs that

[drowsy plank]

okay but you see the main problem with that

and with this one specifically, in my personal opinion

is that star cloak and cross necklace

are obtained the exact same fucking way

[cobalt pewter]

immense

Star Cloak should drop from Astral enemies 🔥

[drowsy plank]

lmao

you could also make cross necklace drop from hallowed enemies or something idk

[sleek turret]

and for cross neckacle you'd have to steal it from a church

[drowsy plank]

lol

[sleek turret]

yeah just like idk

[cobalt pewter]

cross necklace drops from enchanted sword

[sleek turret]

gold bars + pixie dust + light souls

[cobalt pewter]

also I want to see cal turn the weapon enemies into minibosses with gamer movesets but that'll probably be too much

[sleek turret]

bosses with knockback amount based attacks

[cobalt pewter]

(also astral and plague don't have any weapon enemies come on)

anyways

another wildly off topic moment

[wide river]

Plague lacks some stuff yeah (like ambience)
No this is not a shill for anything you're hallucinating

[coral carbon]

I'm realizing how many suggestions are in accepted hell

[cobalt pewter]

like, star cloak gets buffed, cross necklace gets buffed a lil idk how viable it is in cal, and star veil is reworked to not be star cloak + cross necklace

peak fiction I tell ya

[pine star]

iirc this was suggested before

[sleek turret]

"propaganda to your own sugg!!!!"

• the person that says #other-mod-talk pins when someone asks for QoL mods

[pine star]

well it is propaganda for their own sugg

entirely justified propaganda

[sleek turret]

it's ok anyways it's a good sugg

[pine star]

exactly

[wide river]

I looked before posting and saw nothing
So if there was anything I didn't see it

[pine star]

I never said by whom

I was saying you posted it

[sleek turret]

it's entirely ok to sugg stuff that people sugged before, and that also haven't got to dev, right?

[wide river]

Yes

[sleek turret]

it shouldn't be a problem

[atomic shell]

this sugg is actually very based i like it a lot

especially now that abyss chests don’t need shadow key

[weary ledge]

Star cloak does funny damage tho

IMO magic missile is not outclassed by Flamelash in Cal. Flamelash is higher damage and pierces once, but has far slower casting and is less precise, especially since Cal essentially doubled Magic Missile's firerate by making it shoot 2 missiles per cast.
A single flamelash projectile can do ~80 damage without splash damage due to it's 1 pierce. Meanwhile you can get of 3 Magic Missiles in that time, dealing ~69 damage without splash. But while it's easy to deal all that damage to one target with Magic Missile, Flamelash's projectile will usually go target a second enemy if possible instead of hitting the same one twice. So Flamelash trades single target DPS for overall DPS against the 2 bosses you'd use them on, Slime God and WoF

Also sometimes Flamelash's projectile will just hit blocks and die.

[drowsy plank]

do magic's not?

[weary ledge]

It's more of an issue for FL due to the pierce. It will hit one enemy but then slam into blocks afterwards and die.

[small timber]

by specifically and only iframe abuse/face tank

for other scenarios star cloak is so weak that it is neglibeable if you get hit normal amount of time
and it miss 90% of the time

[weary ledge]

Fair.

[weary ledge]

Oh also apparently FL doesn't explode on the first hit, only on projectile death, so MM has more damage output against dense groups of enemies

[cobalt pewter]

I do think damaging effects that proc on player hits should scale their stats to the health loss

it feels like something that just Makes Sense, I spose?

the more you take damage from a single hit, the harder the stars from star cloak should be

[weary ledge]

That would be cool

[stable kiln]

love it when suggestions ask for something huge

rework this rework that add more accessories

[crude geode]

Shrimply rework everything older than a year or two

[bright crag]

Magic Missile = Flamelash

(Magic Missile was buffed in Cal)

[worthy fiber]

poor magic missile

replaced immediately by a similar item right after

[bright crag]

It is pretty uncanny the amount of chests unlocked by one boss though

[ripe owl]

Idea: remove the Shadow Key from the Dungeon loot pool, replace it with a random item/Golden Key and move it to the Slime God's drop pool

[rugged juniper]

Idea: remove slime god and make a shadow key boss that drops shadow chest loot

[hollow ridge]

Genius

[random pasture]

Idea: Remove Shadow Chests, make skeletron drop every shadow chest item at 1%

[buoyant idol]

Idea: Make Shadow Chests instant upgrades hardmode only

[worldly sparrow]

idea: make shadow chests

[hybrid steeple]

idea: shadow

[neat linden]

idea:

[hybrid steeple]

[drowsy plank]

remove terraria

[hybrid steeple]

reall

[frail mantle]

finally

[worldly sparrow]

yes

[buoyant idol]

Remove

[odd geyser]

Terraria the remove

[ashen warren]

idea: move

[zinc dawn]

idea:senator amstrong boss 🗿

[grim tusk]

@zinc dawn no

[oblique geyser]

senator amstrong boss

Love how it's misspelled

[hybrid steeple]

he am strong

[dapper apex]

[weary ledge]

amstrong

Idea: buff the Dungeon Chest Items to make them viable in their own right, so that cal doesn't have to further mess with vanilla progression

[drowsy plank]

bro aint cookin shit

[drowsy plank]

we tried that already, it doesnt help when 3 sets of weapons are all in the exact same spot tbh

[weary ledge]

Oh

Understandable

:(

Move Abyss Chests to post SG?

Though then they'd only have WoF to be used on...

[worldly sparrow]

i love this

though we'll be getting an armstrong boss when yharim update comes in 20 years

[rugged juniper]

Just add every mgr boss in the mod

[drowsy plank]

add sans

[coral carbon]

what makes this suggestion "better" is that the guys discord username is "furry_exterminator_9000"

[rugged juniper]

Getfixedboi ravager:

[halcyon zealot]

😭

[astral python]

How fun would it be if some vanilla instruments (like “Rain Song”) could be turned into a weapon, something like the Stellar Tune?
Further, if all the instruments could be turned into some potent “Calamitas/Calamity Concerto” of sorts?

[drowsy plank]

why

why cant the instruments just

exist

lmao

[tired haven]

1. ^
2. ngl that's something to pester thorium about

[wide river]

No you see we need every item to do damage there can't be vanity items

[tired haven]

golf is now an integral part of every boss interlude, scoring better than the boss you fight gives you free adrenaline charge in phase 2

[coral carbon]

fnaf 4 "fun with plushtrap!" soundin ass

[sleek turret]

if you beat the golf minigame you start with 10 seconds of adrenaline

[coral carbon]

what about the baseball minigame

[tired haven]

if you don't beat the par for the course you are encased in ice for 10 x "the score above par" seconds

[sleek turret]

warioware 10 sec games lmao

[drowsy plank]

diamond ring now makes you shoot diamonds when attacking

all pets are now minions as well

[tired haven]

halo gives you a revive

[drowsy plank]

portal gun does damage

[sleek turret]

sigil of calamitas has a chance to teleport you to Hell and get tortured for the duration of Mana Sickness

[astral python]

Well. Just putting it out there, there is a Harp that Attacks & two Guitar that have use other than music.
Far from the Diamond ring & golf clubs in that they never had a purpose aside from their respective purposes (vanity & golf).

[astral python]

Hmm… Stellar Tune & Harp?

[tired haven]

That's not a reason to change existing ones

it's a compelling parallel, but utterly pointless

[astral python]

No, it’s a reason. Just not one that is accepted I can see

[drowsy plank]

it's not a reason

those are weapons

the instruments arent

they're two entirely different things

[astral python]

Nice job stating the obvious, which I already know

I see constructive feedback is too hard

[drowsy plank]

then why did you bring them up again

the only one not being constructive here is you

it's not like we're dying for more mage weapons rn or anything

there's no reason to change them

[astral python]

See. There’s constructive feedback. “We don’t need more magic weapons”

[hollow ridge]

hes true

[drowsy plank]

i mean if you look at the rules, one of the first things to not base a suggestion on is purely "it would be cool" factor which is what you did

this is why most people didnt take it seriously

[hollow ridge]

Flimsy reasoning is basically no reasoning

[drowsy plank]

you aren't trying to solve a problem, which is the point of this channel, you just came in and said "do a thing" and we were like "lol. lmao, even"

[astral python]

“You should post and discuss the rough idea of a suggestion here before going through the trouble of writing one in full, people may have opinions about it from the get-go.”

[hybrid steeple]

wdym theyre trying to solve that the instruments dont do damage

[drowsy plank]

and you should also read the rules

which you clearly have not

[astral python]

I did read the rules, guy

[drowsy plank]

and yet you still came in here and tried to suggest something based on "coolness"
look im not trying to be mean or anything, but you clearly just did not care to look at the resources enough to figure out the jist of things here, and then were suprised when something which didn't follow the rules wasn't taken seriously

[astral python]

I thought this is where you come first, before you make a suggestion, no? This isn’t even an official suggestion posted

[hollow ridge]

So you planned on fleshing out the part where you said it'd be cool, into something that is actually allowed

[astral python]

If it wasn’t shot down, which it was, so I didn’t bother

[hollow ridge]

It was "shot down" for a reason

[astral python]

Yup. And I felt attacked and given small reason

[hollow ridge]

And at that point it's a you problem, cog and whoever else doesn't decide how you take the feedback

But anyway

This isn't really anything new

Typical Friday morning in suggs disc

[astral python]

Here’s the meaningful stuff that I got out of the feedback
• something to pester thorium about
• a compelling parallel, but not an accepted reason
• we don’t need more mage weapons

Legit, everything else was insults. Worthless feedback

[edgy sundial]

your suggestion inherently broke one of the biggest, most common rules. nobody is going to give feedback on something that will never make it as a suggestion

[astral python]

Which one is it.
Also, insulting someone for messing up on the rules is pretty low. There are a ridiculous amount of rules, I will not be perfect with knowing them all

[hollow ridge]

Mostly js the doc

Channel descs

And pins

And #rules

Then again

You shouldn't really post something

If u haven't read the rules

lol

[edgy sundial]

"i read the rules"
"but which rule is it?"
"there's too many rules"

[wide river]

Ok I admit that we're being rude at this point
While telling people to read the rules is ok, doing it like this is too far

[astral python]

Yeah… I’ve felt attacked enough though. I don’t feel welcome. Instead of understanding and kindness as a first response, this is the second time I’ve received unkindness and 0 understanding. I’ll just leave, I don’t match the atmosphere anyways.

No hard feelings toward the Calamity Mod, love playing it.

[golden tulip]

instead of dogging down on him you couldve just apoligized and explained normally lmao

[wide river]

Unfortunately this channel loves destroying the will to live of suggesters

[golden tulip]

even after all this time, yea

[wide river]

Unfortunately the updated pin did nothing to fix this

If either the pins were more visible or people just weren't as aggressive toward suggestions this place would be better

Either option is a Sisyphean feat

[golden tulip]

discord doing anything but update pins

[buoyant idol]

Idea: Replace ❗ with

Suggestion bot pings you if you get ed

[golden tulip]

that is a good idea

[buoyant idol]

Person who reacted that can provide a short message along with the ping, which should be posted here

🗜️ Should also ping the user with an auto generated message saying that it may be due to no line break or too large of a file

Albeit it'd require the coder to go in and add the code for these, it'd help make this process more streamlined.

[worthy lintel]

brothers in christ how was that sugg allowed to exist for 4 hours

[buoyant idol]

The prophesy is coming true. What have I done?

115 = ~300

[wide river]

If you subtract 1 and 1 from 5 it equals 3
Then you multiply that by 100 and it's 300
Flawless logic

[buoyant idol]

Evidently, 9,000,000 is close to 30 since 3 squared is 9 and adding zeroes doesn't change the value of the number.

[wide river]

This is the kind of math Discord uses when deciding on adding new features because of 1 person complaining

[buoyant idol]

Discord when they add unique backgrounds but give no customization besides the preset options

[worthy lintel]

simply use better discord

[buoyant idol]

Discord: :gone:

[wide river]

"Noooo you can't modify our app that's against ToS!!! "

[buoyant idol]

Time for me to invent a new Discord app, I will call it Gearcord

This will cause no copyright issues in the future

[worthy lintel]

me when discord user sends a screencap of betterdiscord so i have to pretend i enforce tos

[drowsy plank]

wdym we 100% totally enforce tos

[wide river]

It's in the server rules you gotta obey ToS

Meanwhile, the several thousand users using Better Discord:

[buoyant idol]

Me when I just use ToS to bully nine year olds:

[north oracle]

Selective enforcement of ToS is the best kind of enforcement of TOS

[buoyant idol]

I love corruption

[worldly sparrow]

crimson is nice though

[buoyant idol]

Ngl in my 7-8 years if Terraria I’ve only finished one crimson world

[worldly sparrow]

drunk world is superior imo

[buoyant idol]

True, you can choose which evil while keeping both items

I avoid crimson purely because it grosses me out

Afterwards, I play Ultrakill

[worthy lintel]

i avoid crimson because i fucking hate blood crawlers

who tf gave them divine knockback resist

[crude geode]

It doesn’t help that a mod was supporting the dogpiling

[crude geode]

It already must be frustrating enough to have your sugg being dogpiled by 3 different people, but to be hit by this paragraph by a mod??? It would make it seem like this chat lacks a lot of common courtesy

Which in essence, a large portion of the users do

[coral carbon]

this is the first time i had seen this chat like this tbh

[crude geode]

It’s not infrequent

But it’s one of the first times I’ve seen a mod double down so much and support the dogpiling

Being rude to suggs in posting isn’t something that should happen considering posting is the fucking filter

It made sense when we only had 2 sugg channels. Now? It’s just being rude and standoffish because someone didn’t read the pins (something 90% of people don’t do)

[coral carbon]

Not really too surprised to see something like that from cog tbh

[sleek turret]

it would y'know better if people received people and dialogued with people with kindness and respect tbh

but i feel this community in particular just kinda doesn't do that because of particular historical reasons

[worldly sparrow]

i like looking at everything in a negative light because its the only thing i do well

which is why im here at all

i cant give positive feedback for shit lmfao

[crude geode]

It’s very much a holdover from the two channels and particularly from people who don’t listen

But stereotyping every bad poster like that is just asking for this channel to have the worst reputation out of everything

[worldly sparrow]

i don't think you can get worse than cmt/bug reports

[sleek turret]

yeah it's just being overly aggresive to new people

[worldly sparrow]

yes

[halcyon zealot]

We should just do the best we can
Hold people accountable but not aggressively, we're often on the same side
And be good examples ourselves

[sleek turret]

not sure if the first time i sugged something ever it was that way

[coral carbon]

I dont think its unpopular to say that CMT is not enjoyable to be in

[sleek turret]

i don't remember well that was more than 3 years ago

[halcyon zealot]

I mean, there are people that I enjoy their company, others not so much

[worldly sparrow]

you just said "be nicer" in 3 ways

[halcyon zealot]

😭

It is a sugg channel afterall, gotta be more specific

[sleek turret]

me when i'm being persistent with my argument by actually proving it and the person i'm arguing it gets the argument too personal so they have to rely on shitting on me

doesn't apply not only to cmt but everywhere really

[crude geode]

@hollow shell not sure who to contact with this or if I’ve even brought it up before, but it feels like dogpiling is extremely common nowadays even with posting channel meant to filter bad suggs. I feel like this argument (roughly replied to) really exemplifies the hostile nature of the average #suggestions-discussion user that should be at least discussed about punishing or warning for. I just wanna hear your thoughts more than anything.

[sleek turret]

this is why you see people use stuff like appeal to authority, ad hominem and stuff like that because they want to get over with your argument with ease

[worldly sparrow]

why do i feel like the whole discussion about people being too negative here just happens once every other week or so

like, it seems to always pop up one day and then not be brought up for a while

[crude geode]

Because nothing changes and it’s more than once a week where people dogpile?

[worldly sparrow]

...yeah

[sleek turret]

make separate alt account with no traces of you and suggest something with mistakes and see what you get...

[crude geode]

LMAO

[worldly sparrow]

why make one when i have 4?

[crude geode]

What a concept

[sleek turret]

this is just empathy

[cobalt pewter]

gaslight gatekeep girlboss

[cobalt pewter]

brilliant

[halcyon zealot]

[halcyon zealot]

Beware
They exist (:

[worldly sparrow]

or better yet suggest something that breaks one minor rule

on an alt

its always the minor ones that get dogpiled on

the major ones get laughed at

[sleek turret]

shroomerang sugg

[north oracle]

let's just say there's a reason i have the doc open to screenshot
just telling someone "you can't suggest that" leads to fights, actually posting the doc means they're aware of the rule as something wider than just a personal thing

[sleek turret]

ok maybe that's an odd example tbh because i didn't feel dogpilled at that one

[cobalt pewter]

ultimate plantera

[cobalt pewter]

I fuckin hate discord pins

[worldly sparrow]

adding a night's/terra version of a weapon subclass

[drowsy plank]

oh that's cool

i just scrolled back up to the actual convo

i literally didnt see some of these messages

because mobile discord

didn't load them

[sleek turret]

night's/terra versions of items do irritate my eyes but I do acknoledge I have to be nice to people

[drowsy plank]

that's so fucking awesome

[worldly sparrow]

i do know i should be nice to people but i simply cant do it without coming off as heavily pessimistic

[cobalt pewter]

where's my exo balls @dom

[crude geode]

the piss when it cords

[sleek turret]

it's sometimes hard to express yourself in the internet

[vocal grotto]

[worldly sparrow]

it really is

[sleek turret]

and even then you sometimes forget there's someone behind the screen that is an actual human being with emotions

[crude geode]

Yo it’s the exo ball

[worldly sparrow]

and even then it's harder to portray sarcasm through text, making lots of jokes come off as straight rude

[cobalt pewter]

internet users in the future will be AI generated

I already seen some Twitter Blue mfs that genuinely tweets shit that came outta chatgpt

[sleek turret]

it's hard to know if something is sarcasm or serious if there's no indicator

[cobalt pewter]

emoji_73

[coral carbon]

And yet the amount of people that make fun of others for using tone indicators

[worldly sparrow]

yeah

[crude geode]

Tone indicators are pog

[drowsy plank]

i havent seen people make fun of anyone for using tone indicators in here yet

[worldly sparrow]

which is good

[cobalt pewter]

tone indicators get memed to hell everywhere else (like Twitter) so I tend to roll my eyes seeing em

[vocal grotto]

(Sorry for the wack interjection. Couldn't resist)
I think part of the issue when it comes to that stuff is disillusionment. Difficult to keep this in mind when there's an unlimited supply of questionable suggestions. Either because someone obdurately refuses to read the rules and listen to people here, falls into the ever-popular "it's cool" trap, or whatever
Boils down to keeping the unwarranted responses in check, either by politely calling others out in here if they go too far or through formal staff-inflicted punishment

[crude geode]

Which never happens

Which is what I’m hoping can change, because it feels like you could literally call someone a fatherless bitch for making a bad sugg and wouldn’t get punished

[cobalt pewter]

make me a mod and I'll make the suggestions space great /j

[grave zinc]

@bronze tendon - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Add the Intro from Stained, Brutal Calamity on YT into Calamity.]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@lavish condor - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Incorporate hover capability into late-game wings]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@fleet flume - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Add a border around Providence]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[cobalt pewter]

okay but yeah enforcing attitude in suggestion environment is good

[grave zinc]

@small timber - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Rework the (Effect of) Sand Shark Tooth Necklace/Reaper Tooth Necklace Line]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[vocal grotto]

Oh right funky timing

[grave zinc]

@wide river - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Add more Plague-related ambience]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[cobalt pewter]

delivery time

[drowsy plank]

amazing timing tbqh

[wide river]

Cool

[crude geode]

Perfect timing

[sleek turret]

cool ig

[grave zinc]

@sleek turret - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make items such as Voodoo Demon Voodoo Doll and Sirenproof Earmuffs be toggleable on/off using right click rather than favoriting them]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[drowsy plank]

the shark tooth necklace one never quite got sorted

oh there's more

[crude geode]

Suggestion bot learn to read the room smh my head

[grave zinc]

@drowsy plank - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make Starmageddon an Upgrade to Starmada]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[drowsy plank]

jesus christ how many are there this wave

[north oracle]

[wide river]

Almost 200 votes weow

[worldly sparrow]

so much in the 20

[north oracle]

[sleek turret]

https://tenor.com/view/tbhcreature-tbhcreatureyippee-yippee-meme-yippee-tbh-creature-excited-jumping-gif-26089708

[vocal grotto]

Most you can do individually is to be good to others, encourage others here to do the same, and call out offenders if they go too far with their disparagement
As for the formal punishment angle, that's mod corner's deal to discuss

[novel belfry]

200 VOTES?

[drowsy plank]

200 is nothing

isnt icicle still like 400

[wide river]

Probably

[novel belfry]

I know, but

[cobalt pewter]

nice.

[novel belfry]

200 is not something i see these days

[drowsy plank]

#suggestions-voting message

[cobalt pewter]

@/demik

[drowsy plank]

you wish you were him

i dont even think that's my only 200+ this month lmao

[novel belfry]

in his defense, he made a sugg that literally everyone would agree with

[cobalt pewter]

true true

[crude geode]

Very true

[grave zinc]

@bronze tendon - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Add the Intro from Stained, Brutal Calamity on YT into Calamity.]

It has been add to the devs' to-do list and planned for implementation!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[drowsy plank]

oh fuck based

[ashen warren]

based on what?

[buoyant idol]

[cobalt pewter]

god

[north oracle]

huh

cool

[worldly sparrow]

as long as it isnt the full like, 40 seconds per attempt im cool with this

[north oracle]

yeah lol

[royal tapir]

It would not be the full thing every attempt that's a bad idea

[wide river]

Calamitas just British's on you every attempt

[worldly sparrow]

yeah ofc

because if that was the case it becomes as tedious to refight as moon lord

(refight as in amount of time you have to wait doing nothing to start the boss every atttempt)

[ripe owl]

Uuuh

[cobalt pewter]

vanilla moon lord*

[ripe owl]

Doesn't the intro means "the intro drums"?

[ripe owl]

Wasn't it reduced to 12 seconds?

[cobalt pewter]

I presume they'd do it like the start of this vid
https://youtu.be/gktruoTOZ0w

[cobalt pewter]

I think with sigil in vanilla yes, but that's still 12s too much

lemme check

[[tgc:Moon Lord]]

[red storm]

https://terraria.wiki.gg/wiki/Moon_Lord

[cobalt pewter]

yeah with sigil it's 12s

[ripe owl]

Hey at least it's not a minute

You could wait just a little bit

[lavish condor]

breaks between attempts are good for your brain

[ripe owl]

True

[lavish condor]

12s is not that much time to wait

I usually give myself 30s between each attempt so I don't get fatigued

[cobalt pewter]

I'd rather they utilize the 12s fully by making a sigil anim to spawn ML instead of just holding it out

also I'm not a fan of breaks between literally every attempt

I'd rather go through multiple attempts then take a longer break after a while

[lavish condor]

also in vanilla sigil is consumable so every few you have to go redo pillars

[oblique geyser]

Has anyone else ever thought about how it's weird that you can get meld from Astral Crates but you can't get any of the fragments?

[lucid marsh]

I've thought about how its weird that meld and meld construct were ever two different things in the first place

[novel belfry]

My guess is that meld blobs don’t have their own pillar really

They just drop from every pillar enemy

Hell, they even have more weapons than just the two rogue weapons

Yet they don’t got a meld dye 😤

Might as well

[drowsy plank]

dye moment

someday meld will be normal

but not today

giving it a dye is a good start tho god i love the aesthetic of meld wings

[drowsy plank]

it's a holdover from when the mod still had shit like energy cores and serpent devil shards (material made from 2 materials which only use was to lock crafting scoria bars behind)

[lucid marsh]

then

remove them?

there was a suggestion to do exactly that

[novel belfry]

To be fair I do really like the current colors and sprites and theme of meld

[lucid marsh]

and it was shot down

[novel belfry]

But god do I miss the original red and blue coloration

[cobalt pewter]

construct could be removed and blob could be rebranded and used as the primary material for crafts

[novel belfry]

Does anyone have the Meld Bar sprite? I’d really love to see that

[cobalt pewter]

also the non-rogue weapons could be moved

somewhere else idk

[drowsy plank]

meld blobs are fine and construct will probably just become a brick

but that hasnt happened yet

idk why

but it hasnt

[golden tulip]

didnt that get denied

[drowsy plank]

idr

[golden tulip]

pretty sure it did

[cobalt pewter]

getting rid of construct? or respriting it to a brick?

the former is definitely a no, idk if anyone ever brought up the latter

[golden tulip]

let me look it up

if discord let me LOOK UP NAMES oh my god

sometimes its convinced the user im trying to search doesnt exist

[drowsy plank]

nope

#suggestions-voting message

just two suggestions to delete

the brick idea never got through

[golden tulip]

yes, it was that one

[frail mantle]

Only real problem I can see with turning constructs into a block is you’d need someone to sheet the tiles for it

Which is Kind of a bastard

[novel belfry]

Unfortunately this is the best image I could get of the original colors, here’s entropic great sword when the set used to be a xeroc ref

[golden tulip]

victory shard weapon :bruhjaja

[frail mantle]

Xeroc claymore I think the name was

The armor was Xeroc armor

[lucid marsh]

yeah uh kinda sucks when a good suggestion gets deleted like that

[worldly sparrow]

it was xeroc armor

hillarious

[novel belfry]

Back then I’m pretty sure xeroc was just the resident evil god

Wait that that

Fuck

[worldly sparrow]

xeroc was basically just multiversal in power

now that mf takes a while to destroy a mere moon

[novel belfry]

What the fuck did I see
I tried looking up a resident evil gif and I saw the worst thing imaginable

DO NOT LOOK UP RESIDENT EVIL ON THE DISCORD GIF SEARCH

Worst mistake of my life

[worldly sparrow]

what about president evil

[novel belfry]

Okay but that aside I really do love this original coloration

I don’t know why it hits so hard for me

[halcyon zealot]

nice honkers

[frail mantle]

Toenail armor

[novel belfry]

Hilarious how there used to be lore for armor sets

I actually do wish something like this could be seen in the mod proper

[worldly sparrow]

well yeah every item is better with lore of course

[novel belfry]

Wulfrum items all got lore, why can’t Auric Tesla give you a diatribe on why Yharims bond with Yharon is also a bond to Auric, hence why his Auric Tesla Armour is stronger than yours

[frosty trellis]

That reminds me of this

[novel belfry]

Someone turn this into an meme

[hollow shell]

mmm Perhaps so, yeah

Cog did definitely seem way more aggro than was necessary for a sugg not even posted in posting

Granted QWizard was retorting too a bit

[cobalt pewter]

le toe

[hollow shell]

Several people got on his ass for the sugg "breaking" rules
Despite him posting it in this channel to get feedback about it, before he posted it

[crude geode]

I submitted it to mod mail and they were discussing it earlier

Also like posting is meant to filter bad suggs lol

the aggro is entirely unnecessary and just serves to be rude

[hollow shell]

I may make something like a "Feedback Etiquette" pin
to try and prevent situations like this in the future

notable potential points:

• #suggestions-posting is a filter channel with a fairly long time gate. You don't need to panic or become angered when an invalid or flawed suggestion gets posted there. There's time, it'll get flagged.
• You especially don't need to chime in voicing why the sugg is bad if there are already people in the channel doing the same thing. Don't dogpile; don't overwhelm the suggester with more opinions than is necessary.
• Don't point and laugh at ❗ suggestions, i.e. don't send messages poking fun at them or explaining why it's a bad idea when it's already flagged. The suggester has already been told why their suggestion is invalid, they don't need more people telling them the same thing, and they especially don't need people insulting them for "not being able to read" or similar.
• Feedback over an invalid suggestion should point to which rule the suggestion is violating, preferably explaining why the rule exists, without insulting the suggester for not reading the rules. There are a lot of rules to follow and it's somewhat newbie-hostile, so please try to be as patient and informative as possible.

[hollow shell]

(sent this same message there yeah)

[crude geode]

not sure if that alone will work

might need to start giving warns and actual punishment for it

cuz we already have a point in the pins regarding it

[hollow shell]

Yeah, indeed
But such a pin would lay out the grounds for it being punishable (I spose)

[crude geode]

fair enough

[hollow shell]

And yeah true Rebecca's pin does touch on the same topics

[frail mantle]

i do feel like the channel has always been at least a bit like this

yea sure it's annoying when someone doesn't read the channel description or the pins or the suggestions guidelines and all but there's no reason to get any more aggressive over it than "yo please remember to read the rules before you suggest something"

[bright crag]

There still is, to some
At least for the materials making them
Like Aerialite (upcoming but hinted at), Cryonic (upcoming but hinted at), Auric
Perennial might be getting it

[bright crag]

Agreed

Punishment should be carried out, should discussions get heated

[hollow shell]

still talking about the issue in a modmail but I'm going to send some stuff here to for posterity

People pointing out a rulebreaking sugg is prolly the most common form of aggression/callousness in #suggestions-discussion
"Check the pins." "Looks like someone didn't read the rules" "calmain suggesters learn how to read challenge (impossible)"
so, it is good if we try to squash that

also

On the topic of people reading, I've wondered for a long while if there's a way for me to present the Suggestion Don'ts in a more digestible and understandable way.

Not to scope-creep this issue too hard, but it's something I've thought about, making it easier for people to understand all the rules.
(Cuz a lotta this current sugg-disc feedback aggression issue comes from people reacting to others violating the rules, so if we can have less people violating the rules in the first place, then, that helps solve that issue too.)

Like

• Should the doc have graphics and icons to make each point stand out more? (Like, I'm imagining chemical hazard symbols, or the pseudo hazard symbols that the SCP Foundation uses)
• Should the Examples and Reasons be inside collapsibles, so people are able to just see and absorb all the big ideas first and only expand if they're confused about one of them? (prolly using a different site than Google Docs)
• Should it even be on a separate site; would the rate of rule reading and following increase if it's all contained within Discord?
• Should people be disallowed from suggesting by default, until they "prove" that they've read all the rules, like Discord's onboarding screen?
• Do we just need less rules? Is it simply too much for the average newbie to understand all at once?
  and
• Is this a fool's errand? How much are we just gonna have to deal with no matter how clear we try to make it?

also

I've been meaning for a long time to talk with the current Calamity devs and go over everything on the doc, and ask if they think anything should be added or removed, what they think are current problems or what they would actually be fine with having get suggested

But, I've never gotten around to setting that up

[buoyant idol]

Just make it so you have to react to the message to get a role that allows you to suggest. People must be aware of the document to suggest then.

[frail mantle]

Being aware of its existence does not ensure they’ll actually read it

People already mindlessly click reactions when they see them regardless of if they actually understand the joke or not

Locking suggestions behind a simple reaction I don’t think is gonna solve much

[hollow shell]

It would help to some degree, s'jsut a matter of how much it would help versus the effort it'd take to set that system up

[cobalt pewter]

• Icons are good
• It can help, or put TL;DR before every detail
• I'd say put 3-4 of the most common sugg infractions (with the accompanying "hazard level" repped by icons) in the channels themselves, with the rest of the detail staying in the doc
• From the long-standing history of EULA agreements, this will not solve anything
• Less or more rules would probably depend on the devs

[bright crag]

I do think the format could be improved a bit, mainly in terms of visibility and organization
I don't think it needs to change place, and we don't really need less rules imo
It would be great to have some way to ensure people read the rules before posting, if that's possible
I do think things can be improved and we should strive towards that, but I'm a bit skeptical about how effective the changes will be

[sand marlin]

I understand your effort in tryna make this better but I believe most people just genuinely don't read the doc regardless. It's not even just an assumption tbh

[cobalt pewter]

one other thing I can think of is

in the unofficial Paladins discord I moderated, the server's multifunctional bot got this command where you can bring up specific lines of rules

e.g. >>rule2 brings up the rule about no sensitive topics like politics in that server

it's not necessary, but it'd probably help a bit if these commands are given the rule line called by the command as well as their detail in the doc

[bright crag]

For starters, I'd try making the "titles" of each rule pop out more
They're not that distinct from the regular text
They could use different font, greater size, and/or symbols

[bright crag]

True!

[cobalt pewter]

I forgot I could've just screenshot an example

[hollow shell]

Not sure that would help much for getting people to read the rules in the first place
tho I guess it's a bit better than just telling someone to go read the doc and find the info themselves

[cobalt pewter]

as I said it's not necessary yes

[sand marlin]

I think this is a good idea for sugg donts

[sand marlin]

I guess it's still about pointing at the rule though

[hollow shell]

btw @bright crag if you actually could bring that up in the dev server that I am interested in doing this, that'd be helpful

Even while I was a dev, I feel like I used a lot of my own judgement for creating the Don'ts doc

and should have been conversing with the other devs more about what should and shouldn't go on the doc

I will gladly delete multiple entire Don'ts from the doc if the devs wouldn't actually mind seeing what's being disallowed

and less rules will inherently make each one of the rules stand out more and be easier to digest as a whole

((that is assuming that speaking with the devs will have a net decrease of rules and not a net increase
If it's the latter, then
I gotta start looking into UX design))

[bright crag]

Alright, I'll forward your message to them

[hollow shell]

👍

thank you

[bright crag]

No problem!
Btw, how/where could we discuss it?

[hollow shell]

No idea :P

I could get reinvited to the dev server with scrub-level access (though I totally understand if they don't want to do that)

Or we could have a group DM (not sure if that would require us to all be Discord friends)

Or I could make a tiny temp server just for doing this

(technically I already have a suggestion-themed server that's just been gathering dust since I made it in 2020
and nobody has seen it but Thomas
so I could just invite them all to that and make a channel for doing this discussion in)

[bright crag]

Alright
We'll see, then

I already have some answers, but I'll wait for more

[ashen warren]

I believe the only requirement is that whoever adds a person into it, has to be friends with them

[hollow shell]

Alright
We can probably have a little network chain to get everybody relevant in the group then, if we go with that

[golden tulip]

sugg doc rework

soontm

[hollow shell]

I guess this was inevitable

[eternal escarp]

the downside of adding the lorde is making it relevant again

[hollow shell]

When a five year old meme gets dredged back into existence then all its gross sticky kelp threads would get pulled up with it

[tawny thorn]

get fixed boi is a joke addon dump for the devs anyway

[eternal escarp]

sadly
suggestion channels still dont allow joke suggestions

or, luckily

[drowsy plank]

we let some weird stuff through for GFB but this one i think is going a bit far
not to mention it just straight up has copyrighted songs in it, i have no idea if cal would even have permission to use this, and id rather not dredge that up for a bad meme

[hollow shell]

Also you could argue this is a legitimate accessibility concern because of the earsplitting volume

[eternal escarp]

also breaking someone ears isnt fun

[drowsy plank]

ur 100% not wrong

[eternal escarp]

yeah

[drowsy plank]

im sure someone would just say "just lower the volume on those parts then!" but then like
are we really gonna put in that much effort for. This.

[tawny thorn]

cirus exists

exo mechdusa too

[drowsy plank]

honestly i like it using moon lord's vanilla theme and then just randomly swapping between the different AIs themes much more anyway, way more chaotic

that is not at all comparable to this

[eternal escarp]

frankly no matter how many examples youll pull it wont change that the suggestion is invalid

[ashen warren]

those are different
having a hard boss isn't comparable to something that could legitimately damage someone with sensitive hearing

[tawny thorn]

oh

[hollow shell]

yeah

This theme basically already plays in-game, minus the distortion and Metal Gear music

[drowsy plank]

every copy of THE LORDE is personalized

[cobalt pewter]

is gfb not anti accessibility enough? worry not! this thing shall be the final nail in the coffin

[frail mantle]

revolutionary modded secret seed powerful enough to kill a small victorian child

[drowsy plank]

i dont

get this one

what is it even asking for? from what i can see you just. flew into those phantasmal spheres

they didn't look too hard to be able to dodge at all

in fact they were moving fairly slowly

[glass arch]

phantasmal spheres are hard to avoid if you're not paying attention at all

otherwise they're mostly just an annoyance

[eternal escarp]

they take ages before they start moving and they move in your general direction so yeah, if you pay more attention they shouldnt be as much of an issue

[hollow shell]

@toxic basalt opinions

[ashen warren]

you should be constantly mixing up your direction during ml anyway tbh

due to the laser

[eternal escarp]

this isnt to say like, "skill issue" but that they just take more to pay attention to unlike other ML attacks where you can dodge them by just seeing them come to you

to my remembrance i just walked one way until the laser and then walked the other, so that way the phantasmal spheres are also taking much less space since they spawn horizontally and fly that way which makes them even easier to avoid

[cobalt pewter]

me when I still end up doing circle on cal ml anyways

(most of ml attacks are pretty avoidable if you have fastfall like slime mount or sabaton)

(in fact I think I used sabaton for ml and just

whee)

[toxic basalt]

that often also gets me killed either from the spheres, or all the phantasmal eyes that linger around

[cobalt pewter]

I think imo the biggest issue with ML is not the spheres

rather, it's the eyes

[toxic basalt]

I do often mix up my movements, but it tends to collapse once the eyes come out

[cobalt pewter]

I mean

[cobalt pewter]

those small projectile that they vomit and home to you

[eternal escarp]

eyes are the homing fuckers right

yeah ok

[cobalt pewter]

I just fail to see the reason for these mfs

[toxic basalt]

yeah, and they stay around for way too long

[cobalt pewter]

ML can probably work without those shits

as I said earlier, I could basically run from all of them by using sabaton (god the rework is so based)

but it's more of me flipping the bird to the eyes rather than me doing what's intended

[toxic basalt]

back to the spheres tho, they do still interfere with trying to avoid the deathray

especially with the fact it's faster at normal aggression

[tawny thorn]

so... any other ideas for a T H E L O R D E theme if not mine?

[toxic basalt]

the one it has is fine

[frail mantle]

5 minutes of complete silence

[toxic basalt]

plus it's a meme boss

[tawny thorn]

and i wanted meme music to acompany it

[toxic basalt]

you could of at least explained why in the post

[tawny thorn]

fixed

[small timber]

I don't really encounter difficulties with phantasmal sphere

more often or not it is the phantasmal eye that feels incredibly random and annoying to avoid

[cobalt pewter]

I think without the eyes ML fight being something you need to control would actually... work!

[small timber]

and that look like FTW Moon Lord of course everything will feel stupid because everything is not dodged by the way you usually do it

[cobalt pewter]

but the eyes just go against that design completely by being a school of shits and home to you and incredibly fast relative to the rest of his kit

[sand marlin]

Eyes should be toned down completely agreed

[small timber]

phantasmal sphere is controllable yes, while phantasmal eye if a pure area denial

[sand marlin]

Both vanilla and cal they're too much

[small timber]

if eye don't exist you can just straight up fight moon lord relatively statically, because sphere is actually super telegraphed (assuming you dont have to off screen it 99% of the fight because FTW, and eyes)

[cobalt pewter]

I definitely do it that way sorts

sorta

I walk sideways whenever he's releasing spheres

and it's pretty predictable (either from the hands or the detached ones) to dodge once you walk sideways enough

[small timber]

but yeah, I will bring it back to the suggestion again: the issue is almost entirely because of FTW

because in non-FTW mode you destroy hand eyes then death ray slows donw a lot, which allow you much more room to avoid eyes

[deft yew]

It’s not even aggro or speed that makes phantasmal eyes bad, it’s the impossibly unpredictable way their homing works

[small timber]

and if not mistaken, killing eyes in non-FTW also make phantasmal sphere count much lower from hands

so tldr tldr: it is almost entirely FTW Moon Lord problem

[toxic basalt]

speaking of FTW, or legendary in this case, really wanted to suggest getting rid of the fact that each of the true eyes spew out boulders now, but I know that would get shot down immediately as it's on Legendary

[sand marlin]

I mean they are predictable, they are just too aggressive with it

[small timber]

well turns out they don't balance legendary/ftw

[sand marlin]

They home in so fast on you

[small timber]

in fact bosses in ftw/legendary are deliberately made super annoying to spite player for playing it

[cobalt pewter]

anything beyond death is definitely not intended to be Perfectly Balanced™

[sand marlin]

Eh I've had this issue on death too

[toxic basalt]

ML already had FTW changes and was a challenge hardly many people managed to do, adding the boulders made it go into being fucking overkill

[sand marlin]

Sorry I mean phantasmal eyes

[cobalt pewter]

but phantasmal eyes are still definitely an issue at its core

[sand marlin]

I probably responded to something wrong

[toxic basalt]

it makes all his attacks slower

[deft yew]

Anyway yes, spheres are equally wack

[sand marlin]

Yeah nvm that was not what I meant to reply to

Ignore that

[small timber]

no part of FTW/GFB is "intended to be balanced"

if you beat it you beat it, if you cant you cant

[toxic basalt]

so why did they buff him even more?

[small timber]

because why not, some player want difficulty, now you get difficulty

[cobalt pewter]

and of course Re-Logic is doing another meme difficulty seed in 1.4.5

because we don't have ENOUGH of these

[small timber]

there are a lot of people complaining the game is too easy, now they get what they want

[cobalt pewter]

joy!

[sand marlin]

Not just another
An entire set

[toxic basalt]

could of done this in 1.4.3, but this meme change ruined the fight

[sand marlin]

Do it in 1.4.3 then Ig

[toxic basalt]

I have an idea

turned it to Expert so it's just Master and not Legendary, and then bump his hp up by around 25-50%

now it's the same but without the boulders

[ashen warren]

That's kind of the point of GFB

[glass arch]

gfb is a shitpost

[eternal escarp]

me when the shitpost difficulty isnt fun!

anyway

[glass arch]

its free reign for the devs to do pretty much fucking anything they want

[eternal escarp]

i agree the real issue with ML is the eyes rather than, anything else imo

contrary to everything else they suck ass arent easy to keep track of, and just home in such an annoying way

[toxic basalt]

wait what the fu- why are they still spewing boulders!?

[glass arch]

the eye fuckers are so goddamn annoying because theres so many

[glass arch]

because its a generalized gfb change iirc

[sand marlin]

Legendary is not a defining difficulty

[toxic basalt]

no I'm on Expert + FTW now, I was never on GFB

[sand marlin]

All GFB changes are seed dependent

Or that

Ig

Still, it's the FTW seed

GFB has that, which is why it's so difficult

[glass arch]

nearly every gfb change in vanilla is also on ftw

[toxic basalt]

the boulders aren't, that was a GFB only change

[sand marlin]

It's because GFB HAS ftw so yeah

[toxic basalt]

ML in Vanilla has no FTW changes

[eternal escarp]

is ftw a seed people do take seriously?
because afaik it shouldnt be

[glass arch]

apparently yes

[small timber]

phantasmal eyes is complete area denial yes

it is like the only part I wish they can tune from vanilla moon lord

[glass arch]

secret seeds should never be taken seriously

[eternal escarp]

so true

[sand marlin]

I love shredding King Slime with Orichalcum Gemspikes

[deft yew]

Terraria players take anything that increases difficulty seriously. It do not matter

[small timber]

its entire purpose is "hey move away from your current position"

[glass arch]

they're secret for a reason

[eternal escarp]

insert 915 difficulty stacking meme

[frail mantle]

the only seeds i'd argue there's reasons to take seriously are remix and the constant

[eternal escarp]

to be fair the meaning of secret in their sense is very vague but i get what you mean

[deft yew]

All this Cal GFB crap really made me want to play vanilla DDU

[ashen warren]

The only secret seed that needs to be taken seriously is not the bees

[deft yew]

It’s genuinely cool

[eternal escarp]

constant doesnt change too much afaik
remix is the only one id say is valid to take seriously

[frail mantle]

all the other ones feel like impulsive "wouldn't it be funny" ideas tossed at red by random people to which he responds "lmao yeah"

[frail mantle]

remix goes hard

[eternal escarp]

constant is like, normal+gimmick rather than a wholly new thing

[sand marlin]

TRUE

[eternal escarp]

it doesnt just feel like
it is that

[sand marlin]

Also drunk seed is pretty good

[cobalt pewter]

except for remix

the only good secret seed unfortunately 🙏

[eternal escarp]

isnt drunk seed ftw
or are they seperate

[sand marlin]

Separate

[frail mantle]

separate

[eternal escarp]

today i learnt

[deft yew]

If 1.4.5 has like, customizable seed mixing, Constant + Vampire might be funny

[sand marlin]

Drunk seed is drunk worldgen, ftw is absurd difficulty

[cobalt pewter]

drunk seed is an excuse for people to have both evils in a world

[eternal escarp]

"""""'difficulty"""""""

[glass arch]

i usually always play drunk worlds for the singular reason of both evils

[deft yew]

[sand marlin]

Wdym you don't think rune wizards oneshotting you is fair?

[cobalt pewter]

constant tries just a bit too hard to be good

remix is The sweet spot

[ashen warren]

They need to do more tbh

[glass arch]

they need to have scal ai

[ashen warren]

all the fireballs are replaced with rune wizards

[cobalt pewter]

constant was kinda cool before remix was thing to me, solely because it's the least memey seed and actually tries to do something

but remix definitely takes the cake now

[eternal escarp]

if a person does a wallclimb on their own, thats difficult!
if someone does a wallclimb up a building, thats more difficult!
if someone does a wallclimb up on sandpaper while theres a man at the top that will kick them down every time, thats not difficult thats just shit

[small timber]

can they change cnidarian in gfb to have dog AI already

[deft yew]

The Rune Wizard summoning an Armored Digger and ten Mimics when I show it my Bladetongue:

[glass arch]

https://tenor.com/view/struggle-sisyphus-gif-4952086791107433131

[deft yew]

DoG flail whip

[sand marlin]

Cosmic Discharge

[deft yew]

That’s a whip-sword

[eternal escarp]

what the fuck

what is a whip-sword

[cobalt pewter]

Castlevania

(I totally know CV and not leeching off info from the Dead Cells DLC)

[sand marlin]

Lynel you did literally describe Cosmic Discharge tho

[eternal escarp]

anyhow uh

[glass arch]

based dead cells enjoyer

[eternal escarp]

back to the sugg
id say the real issue that needs adjusting is the phantasmal eyes as they cause breaking of the cycle in the first place

[cobalt pewter]

indeed

[cobalt pewter]

so true bestie

[eternal escarp]

rather than nerf the spheres that i personally would consider perfectly fine

[cobalt pewter]

1.4.5 is my magnum opus

(it only adds 4 dead cells weapons)

[deft yew]

Nvm subjective terminology is weird

[cobalt pewter]

I think we know Flint and Mushroom Boi already, that leaves ranged and magic (the latter is definitely Lightning Bolt)

[eternal escarp]

i thought stealth rework was your magnum opus

[ashen warren]

and a fuckton of whips

[cobalt pewter]

oh that's for vanilla

[eternal escarp]

fair enough

[cobalt pewter]

1.4.5 is my vanilla* magnum opus

obviously stealth formula is still my cal magnum opus (until rogue 3.0 happens maybe)

[eternal escarp]

eventually

idk if tm or not

[cobalt pewter]

we will see

[wide river]

(Text wall incoming btw)

[wide river]

Suggestion regular here, I figured I'd give my stance on this too

• From what I've seen, a main issue with the Don'ts doc is that even if people do find it, they often don't see the Don't that prevents them from suggesting something. This is probably because a lot of the Don'ts blend together due to not having distinguished starts and ends, with only section endpoints being a divider, really.
• A wiki userpage could potentially be used as a Google Docs substitute, as it retains many of the same formatting options as Google Docs, yet also has collapsible textboxes available to put the Don't reasoning in. This may be undesirable, however, as those textboxes may rely on other wiki functions that would prevent it from functioning properly.
• If the suggestion rules were all contained within Discord, it may help with visibility of the Don'ts, but at the same time, where would one put them here? Putting them in the pins results in the same issue where people don't read them, so perhaps a "Suggestions Rules" channel could be made to contain this and other rule-related pin info
• Banning users from suggesting stuff until they prove they read the rules seems like a fool's errand, because how would you determine that? A quiz built on a different site where people wouldn't go to? EULA agreements don't work despite being based off of the same principle, so I don't think doing that would be productive in the long run
• I've been wondering if some of the rules are old/outdated, as I haven't seen a few "Frequently Suggested" get suggested in a while, and sometimes (being pedantic) they can be skirted around
  So yeah, that's my opinions on the matter

[hollow ridge]

Suggestions info channel would help better sum up everything maybe

Similar to the pinned post in #1052323733961977947

[wide river]

Yeah
...Though people don't read that either

I also worry that having 4 suggestion channels may be a bit much

[hollow ridge]

Maybe make a sugg channel group

[sand marlin]

Category?

[halcyon zealot]

it can be made mandatory
much like discord servers which only allow a single channel for viewing until reacting to the message

[hollow ridge]

Forgor the name yeah

[sand marlin]

You know people also skip rules like that right

[hollow ridge]

Anything for a joke sugg

But then again

[wide river]

As said earlier, people click reactions mindlessly

[hollow ridge]

That'll weed out some people

[halcyon zealot]

any of these are clearly better than what we have 😭

[ashen warren]

yes, but it at least makes it so the rules are easier to see

[halcyon zealot]

indeed

[sand marlin]

Rules aren't possibly seen by those who don't search for it, just like anything you ever read

Being that ignorant does you no good after all and all you get is instant ❗

This is the kind of calmain users we're dealing with

(Well, them, not me

[halcyon zealot]

I think it is not the healthiest to assume that is the majority

[ashen warren]

There will never be a way to have everyone read the rules
but having a specific channel and reaction unlock for the rules makes it so everyone has a much better chance to actually see the rules, where currently they're very out of the way

[cobalt pewter]

in 2023 95.86% people still unlocked their scroll wheel on G502 (if they have one, like I am) and just scroll past every EULA agreements and click on agree mindlessly

[halcyon zealot]

jkdanvhnrebghfdgkjfdgdvmkm
I havea g502 for that as well lol

[wide river]

One of the main reasons I think a Suggestion Rules channel would be a good idea is because the three most important pins in this channel are buried beneath 3 other pins
Namely: Suggestion Don'ts Doc, Suggestion Delivering System, and Suggestion Reaction Legend

[cobalt pewter]

my idea earlier was to just

[ashen warren]

^^^^

[cobalt pewter]

inject the sugg bot with a command to just

drop a certain don't here

[ashen warren]

you can't force people to read the rules, but you can force them to at least see it

[cobalt pewter]

whatever is relevant for the sugg in question

[grim tusk]

It might not work
See the bug forums having a pinned post at the top of the screen that barely anyone reads

[cobalt pewter]

if you won't read the entire thing, I'll make sure you'll read the only relevant rule I'm boutta drop

[sand marlin]

I think just taking the sugg rules outside of the doc is good overall so that should happen tbh

[cobalt pewter]

that's how a big-ish server I moderate in does rule enforcing I guess

[wide river]

Yeah that was my concern as well

[cobalt pewter]

so I'm used to that

[sand marlin]

It being a google doc is kind of a setback

[glass arch]

noob is making copypastas for don't doc violations during his mute iirc

[sand marlin]

Also like

This #suggestions-posting message

This literally exists

And people still don't read it

[glass arch]

yea

[drowsy plank]

i still liked the idea of locking posting and discussion behind a discord intro channel thing

[glass arch]

because 90% of the time there are other suggestions there that push it up further than people are usually gonna backread

[ashen warren]

p2w suggestions, only available to nitro users

[sand marlin]

People also don't read any channel descriptions ever

[cobalt pewter]

behind a what

[grim tusk]

Nor pins

[glass arch]

so
just
patreon but paid to discord instead

[grim tusk]

Good idea for the forums ngl

Put rules there, known bugs are just in a forum post

[sand marlin]

I mean pins are one click away, channel description is literally at the top of your screen, covering a larger portion than the pins button and even previewing the text

[wide river]

I'm pretty sure that's a thing in server management but I haven't checked in a while

[sand marlin]

I cannot understate the importance of understanding the playerbase mindset

[grim tusk]

I also have a feeling most people talk on mobile where those 2 are hidden

But why the fuck would you report a bug on mobile

[sand marlin]

People make suggestions on mobile????

[cobalt pewter]

can confirm that with the new UI, pins require 2 clicks, and channel descriptions are literally no longer visible

[glass arch]

arent at home and just remembered ig

[cobalt pewter]

....I've been doing that this entire time????

[sand marlin]

Literally learned something new, despite thinking I had somewhat of an understanding of the playerbase

This is incredible

[glass arch]

yes

[sand marlin]

poor dude

[ashen warren]

i'm more suprised you didnt think of this earlier

[cobalt pewter]

I got used to it

[sand marlin]

My condolences having to deal with mobile discord

[glass arch]

thats where quite a few of my bangers have came from

[cobalt pewter]

Discord is a performance hog especially on my craptop

so I'm not used to discord on pc

[sand marlin]

I didn't think there were people who could bother suggesting on mobile

[cobalt pewter]

most of my discord activity is on mobile

[glass arch]

for example the deus meld sugg was made on my phone

[cobalt pewter]

what is my most banger sugg even

I know stealth formula is my magnum opus but I technically never really made it through suggs

I used to do (and still do tbh) mathematical expressions on discord mobile to the best of my capacity

it's my only language when I was messing with stealth formula

[wide river]

Well I hope that conversation was, at the very least, some form of insight into the suggestions debacle

Hopefully a compromise is found that satisfies both users and suggesters

(Unfortunately just about every method is flawed in some way, be it users just not reading stuff or the info being out of the way, but if we can find the best method to have the rules be more visible, that's enough for me)

[sand marlin]

I suggest just taking out everything from the doc and placing it somewhere closer

I mean that just calls for another channel which isn't great I guess

But it's more accessible than before at least

[bright crag]

I like it too, though I'm highly skeptical that there's a way to consistently check that people have read the rules

[halcyon zealot]

there is not
however it serves as a barrier to entry, and enables us to better hold people accountable

[edgy sundial]

replacing the ❗ reaction with might help. nothing about ❗ actually says what's wrong or what to do. using would point people in the right direction immediately, directly from their bad suggestions

[sand marlin]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/670764522570645514.gif?size=48&name=CheckThePins&quality=lossless

[ashen warren]

what if check the pins is for pins stuff and ❗is for other stuff

[hollow shell]

What exactly are "pins stuff" that it would be violating

that isn't the doc

[sand marlin]

Exclamation doesn't really work with anything else

[ashen warren]

idk

[sand marlin]

It would be referring to the doc directly instead of being a simple exclamation

[hollow shell]

maybe

[sand marlin]

And the doc contains donts, which means it is indeed problematic

[edgy sundial]

how many times do you get "what does ❗ mean???" is my thinking. it also means people here don't have to tell someone to check the pins, they would already have been told

[sand marlin]

I think exclamation, while effective at being a warn, isn't actually helpful. It just is a warn that something is wrong and not necessarily towards what it's about

Even if the reaction descriptions are given

Exclamation feels out of place

[hollow shell]

Well also don't forget that the user is also always pinged here too

to explain what is invalid about the suggestion

[sand marlin]

Well that's what's already been happening

This would be an improvement over it

The ping here would be a double reminder even

And it's not necessarily a hard thing to change

[eternal escarp]

while thats true, rover is correct that people are usually pinged whilst getting the reaction
and if they arent, whose to say they check back on their suggestion to see the reaction; sometimes theres a large amount of sugg at #suggestions-posting and a new person may not know to check back on it to see if its tagged or not

though overall it would probably still work slightly better than a generic ❗ as it atleast explains.. a thing

[ashen warren]

what if it's ⛔ instead? it'd be more clear that there's something wrong, instead of ❗ which a lot of people might get confused about

[sand marlin]

I don't really see the difference

They're both warns

And do not indicate otherwise

[sleek turret]

one is a traffic sign other feels like a warning

[sand marlin]

I meant

In this context they're both just warnings

[sleek turret]

they're the same ye

[eternal escarp]

ye

[sleek turret]

Ye.

[hollow shell]

⚠️

[livid coral]

We use that for flagging and it’s pretty noticable

The exclamation point is a given and I’m surprised people overlook it because outlook uses it to flag important emails

But also I realize now not everyone is like me and uses it for work

[sleek turret]

gmail uses a similar sign for the spam email category

[eternal escarp]

i mean true and all
but i think the expected userbase average is age 14-16 and i think those people dont know what an outlook is

[livid coral]

I’m showing my aaaaaage