suggestions-discussion

[high nest]

remember malice damage limiters

[cobalt pewter]

you're not really up against the entire roster of bosses by default

you can customize a run to include everyone now iirc but the default gauntlets have always been 3 bosses / 3 ex bosses and 5 bosses / 5 ex bosses (out of 12)

[swift wharf]

actually i don't think powercreep is the correct word here but it works

[drowsy plank]

do u mean reactive damage reduction

[swift wharf]

rdr king slime

[high nest]

yeah the thing from malice

[swift wharf]

[drowsy plank]

just reimplement RDR for boss rush what could go wrong

[glass arch]

you can replace powercreep with pretty much anything thats in terraria and it still works

[cobalt pewter]

do not mention rdr here

[high nest]

[bright crag]

Power creep is a common challenge in multiplayer games, especially those that involve progression, customization, and updates. It refers to the situation where new content or features make older ones obsolete or irrelevant, creating an imbalance and a loss of diversity in the game.

[swift wharf]

oh ok it does work

[worldly sparrow]

"Yeah, Terraria's balancing is insane"

[bright crag]

It kinda is powercreep
In Terraria, your progression of gear definitely renders earlier content obsolete
It's the whole premise

[swift wharf]

when I think of powercreep I think of payday 2 dlcs

[bright crag]

And it gets quite extreme

[swift wharf]

that add weapons that invalidate vanilla weapons

[drowsy plank]

we just gotta add items that are viable for the entire game again like coldheart

[swift wharf]

why use this array of assault rifles when you can buy a dlc and use the powercrept one

GOD

[cobalt pewter]

there's also design creep where the newer characters tend to have gajilion elements to their kit as opposed to 5-6 for older ones

they're not that powerful most of the time, mind you, but it's insanely bloated because most of their ideas have been spent on the older chars

[glass arch]

legendary items

[worldly sparrow]

The magnum in question:

[glass arch]

:trollage:

[drowsy plank]

where's xpc with that joke about weapons dealing % damage so we never have to balance again

[swift wharf]

the clear solution is to turn boss rush into it's own mode

[drowsy plank]

slr did that

[swift wharf]

precisely

[cobalt pewter]

cal turns into slr

[hybrid steeple]

cal boss rush addon

[swift wharf]

but it's too much effort tbh fuck ppl who play only for the bosses 🙄

[cobalt pewter]

(no more crabulon)

[drowsy plank]

boss rush subworld

[bright crag]

The easiest solution to powercreep is to limit character progression
Hollow Knight's pantheons work because, while your character does get upgrades, they are fairly contained and don't render old content truly obsolete

[swift wharf]

sure moss charger will get easier with double jump and strong charms but not compared to
big slime versus the unmatched power of the sun

[bright crag]

SLR boss rush is fine because of the low boss count and relatively low powercreep - being solely pre-HM rn

[worldly sparrow]

even the mega man boss rushes are way better because of little powercreep

[high nest]

New calamity biome suggestion: apartment complex. Draedon left the key in your starting bag so you wouldnt need to make 28 npc houses to stop the cyborg from moving into your bedroom

[swift wharf]

apartment complex? i find it rather

simple

[drowsy plank]

shrimple

[worldly sparrow]

i hope this is a joke

[cobalt pewter]

terraria damage rises exponentially (figurative)

unless one changes the damage progression there's no way to combat power creep at all

[swift wharf]

draedon speech bubble

[drowsy plank]

🦐

[high nest]

I figured the sarcasm was apparent.

[drowsy plank]

we're in suggestion posting

[cobalt pewter]

sarcasm in text is never apparen

t

[drowsy plank]

you know someone posted that unironically at least once

[cobalt pewter]

fuck

[drowsy plank]

also true

[cobalt pewter]

indeed

[swift wharf]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/833713085525131344/1004425304435085363/attachment.gif

[high nest]

true we get some stinkers

[bright crag]

Draedon Gaming HQ minibiome

[hybrid steeple]

i think if effort wasnt a question and if the boss rush is still going to be linked to summoning xeroc it would be cool for it to be reflective of xerocs journey or something and has remixes + resprites of the bosses that are included
like ml is full power and yharon is swapped with zeratros and yharim is xeroc pre-ascension

[swift wharf]

get mat pat draedon'd

that could work actually

[drowsy plank]

future bosses :)

[hybrid steeple]

past bosses acktyually

[drowsy plank]

[swift wharf]

boss rush could be just the lore important bosses

[drowsy plank]

removes deerclops

[swift wharf]

like calamitas uhhh ml provi dog yharon etc

[high nest]

draedon's fortnite gamer crib biome... twisted towers

[swift wharf]

calamity battle pass

[high nest]

this tbh. dunno why it isnt in yet

[glass arch]

it took me way too long to find this

[bright crag]

Honestly that would be fucking awesome
But unlikely I'd say, if the other devs want to keep the "all bosses" premise and/or don't wanna put on the effort of making new content for Boss Rush's challenges

[hybrid steeple]

yeah like i said, if effort wasnt a question

plus that could mean adding a lower half to ml which is basically a whole new boss

[swift wharf]

even then it could be just less bosses

[high nest]

moon lord toes.

[swift wharf]

nuh uh

[cobalt pewter]

fym nuh uh

we have the legs already

[high nest]

astral infection? no thats just moon athletes foot

[cobalt pewter]

cal should reinvent red's original idea and make a boss fight that is just

a planet crashing onto the world

[swift wharf]

let's not get very weird now

[bright crag]

@dense ferry @jovial spire What do you think of this idea, btw?
I'm curious to know what you think of Boss Rush

[swift wharf]

the legend of zeldae

[drowsy plank]

wall of moon lord

[dense ferry]

Would it be cool as fuck? Yes

[jovial spire]

I mena I've told you before

[dense ferry]

Is it possible? Fuck me

[jovial spire]

But also why would yharon need to be swapped

[dense ferry]

If we were to do something like that it would 100% be left until we actually add Xeroc

[drowsy plank]

as usual boss rush is put into the box

[bright crag]

(Not the exact details, moreso the idea of reducing boss count and making it more representative of the lore/Xeroc's journey)

[worldly sparrow]

i love it but i have no say in this

[ashen warren]

Underfed soaring insignia (I’m late )

[high nest]

dont dig up seed swapping harpy ring and soaring insignia would be fuckin hilarious

balanced? no. funny? yes

[jovial spire]

but anyways yeah we do have stuff planned for boss rush rewrite

and boss rush itself

[worldly sparrow]

thank god

[jovial spire]

tbh having every boss i feel like is unsustainable and i'm not the first to bring that up

[buoyant idol]

Opinions on this idea: Boss rush bosses die after a specified period, so kill times are just a timer for how long the boss last. Makes the balancing nightmare obsolete while preserving boss rush. The dev items still could be used on what ever the final boss is at the time of implementation, so it never has to be changed unless a bosses’ killtime changes

[dense ferry]

No

[jovial spire]

That would feel unfun imo

[ripe owl]

That would be stupid

[dense ferry]

That's RDR with extra steps and completely fucks with the entire part of

Having a weapon

[blazing kettle]

that completely misses the point of boss rush

[ripe owl]

Ah, yes, Boss Rush, an event where I can do fucking nothing and win

[blazing kettle]

your supposed to fight the bosses

[ripe owl]

[hybrid steeple]

omg i love fighting 40 night provis in a row 😍

[sleek turret]

you could dodge the boss entirely without dealing damage to them

[bright crag]

^
Not to mention that it doesn't solve the dilemma of
Bosses either being melted, or BR lasting hours

[sleek turret]

and they would just be killed instantly

[buoyant idol]

Yeah, would mess things up

[jovial spire]

Which is why imo it should be cut down to the important bosses

[blazing kettle]

to avoid bosses being melted, then..... make new ai lolmao

[jovial spire]

tbh when it comes to boss rush dialogue i do have two ideas

[buoyant idol]

Agreed, aureus is just there to fall off skybridges and snipe you

[drowsy plank]

just make an entire new difficulty mode for one event

[jovial spire]

1. Keep roughly the same amount of dialogue that plays every time
2. Have more dialogue, but make it only ever play once

[blazing kettle]

do waht starlight river does

[jovial spire]

or ig

make ot toggleable somehow

[blazing kettle]

everyone is clammoring for cal to copy starlight river these days

[worldly sparrow]

just readd malice smh

[blazing kettle]

its the new hip trend

[jovial spire]

Depends on how it turns out ig

[dense ferry]

Oh I thought you said you wanted to make fucking

New dialogue for redoing Boss Rush after beating it

[jovial spire]

No

[dense ferry]

That would be wack

[jovial spire]

If anything there'd just be no dialogue

or veyr short dialogue

like only at the very start and very end

[drowsy plank]

having it play once but have a like toggle in config that shuts off after you beat it that you can turn back on if you want to see it again if there is a lot of it would be cool

[fervent orbit]

br talk #48395839398485

[drowsy plank]

haha yes

[dense ferry]

Would be wack to code that I think, and well

Chat Spam never is fun

[drowsy plank]

true

[jovial spire]

i mean i wouldnt say it'd become chat spam

just not only like

2 lines per tier

[dense ferry]

Around the same amount Draedon says currently, for example?

[jovial spire]

also i want to talk about xeroc i like them as much as yharim but have way less places to talk about them

[jovial spire]

per tier? nah, too long

[dense ferry]

Fair enough

[fervent orbit]

3 lines per tier

[bright crag]

Think of it this way
40 bosses, each fight lasting at least 1 minute

See what I mean? Having the bosses last, in any capacity, would make the event really long

SLR's boss rush works because it's just 3 pre-HM bosses, their AI still feels fresh and threatening and there's few enough bosses to give each a lengthy fight

[fervent orbit]

just make br cal bosses only smh

[dense ferry]

Yeah Boss Rush really needs to be cut down to

Work

Because as it is right now no one even wants to test that shit so like

[fervent orbit]

and maybe like a few iconic vanilla bosses

[blazing kettle]

yeah your take on boss rush is very different and it's really hard to juggle around i assume

[fervent orbit]

like eoc and ml

[drowsy plank]

hey i mean tiercord did

[jovial spire]

ehh not fitting imo

becuase then like

some missing would feel really weird

like ML

[dense ferry]

Ye

[jovial spire]

ML is very important

[blazing kettle]

i was also being satire earleir, i should use tone indicators more

[fervent orbit]

i had realised that yes

[dense ferry]

I think Mechs would be good to be in there too

Just because Mechs are good

[drowsy plank]

was immediately thinking, what if you did mecha madness and then i thought, well what if you put a few bosses grouped together

could be one way to compound the fights and reduce the duration while keeping them fresh but

i obviously see issues with that

[jovial spire]

grouped bosses that arent made to be fought that way are always awful

see: godskin duo

[dense ferry]

Mech Mayhem is already the worst challenge of all time that only exists for one achievement

[drowsy plank]

true

[fervent orbit]

we can just br ai

[dense ferry]

And yeah Godskin Duo.

[worldly sparrow]

i feel we just need the important bosses in the br

[dense ferry]

Yeah that would be ideal

[small timber]

all bosses have fixed 75% DR in boss rush and also drain a certain % of their health every second (later bosses drain slower and have higher HP, early/weak bosses drain faster and have lower HP)

[worldly sparrow]

ofc we need the big 5 post-ml ones

thats not a question

[fervent orbit]

nah just give bosses tdr like malice

[small timber]

200% TDR

[dense ferry]

I am killing both of you

[glass arch]

100% dr
you can only dodge

[fervent orbit]

br: removed until further notice

[drowsy plank]

reducing BR to just the important bosses means you could focus more on retuning their AIs, especially early game ones, to better fit it

[glass arch]

the issue with this suggestion is how fast grax is

like

[small timber]

ok 2nd idea for boss rush: every 5 seconds a random chosen class deal double damage but a random class also deal half damage

[drowsy plank]

photon ripper

[small timber]

interactivity

[worldly sparrow]

^^^^^

[glass arch]

yeah phripper

[fervent orbit]

pripper is already a max axe

[glass arch]

the best summon weapon

[drowsy plank]

something to tear through walls would be nice ig

[small timber]

photon ripper is the best whip in the game right now

[dense ferry]

I'm genuinely going to kill all of you

[glass arch]

emode moon lord

[ashen warren]

sure, photon ripper is an axe, but that's not its main use. either way though, there is not a SINGLE hammer in post-moon lord, so something's missing here

[worldly sparrow]

ah so its main use is to kill scal?

[fervent orbit]

yea its a summon weapon

[ashen warren]

yes as a weapon

like butcher's chainsaw

[fervent orbit]

grax is also a weapon

[dense ferry]

Photon Ripper is absolutely not a good weapon

[worldly sparrow]

really you can use any pickaxe as a weapon

[fervent orbit]

[dense ferry]

And the thing is that you don't need a new hammer or axe by there

[glass arch]

its a really good summon weapon wdym

[bright crag]

[drowsy plank]

i can argue about the hammer thing

[small timber]

[ashen warren]

exactly

[dense ferry]

Grax is 100% enough for the rest of the game

[drowsy plank]

but yeah we got stuff to deal with blocks and trees (photon and crystyl)

[ashen warren]

does the crystyl crusher destroy walls

[fervent orbit]

wdym exactly

[worldly sparrow]

and grax does the job just fine

[glass arch]

yeah grax is a good hammer

[drowsy plank]

no

[ashen warren]

are you trying to disprove my point

[worldly sparrow]

yes

[glass arch]

yes

grax is more than enough for the rest of the game

[ashen warren]

this guy

[worldly sparrow]

is epic individual

[ashen warren]

what is the intention of saying that the grax is a weapon

[fervent orbit]

just because it can be used as a weapon doesnt mean its also not a tool

[ashen warren]

that wasn't not my point

[worldly sparrow]

yeah so its a tool

[sleek turret]

tbf all tools are weapons if you look hard enough

[fervent orbit]

then remove any mention of axe in the sugg

[drowsy plank]

an upgrade to axe of regrowth and a pripper/crystyl style hammer would be nice

[dense ferry]

This conversation is giving me brain damage

[worldly sparrow]

really

[cobalt pewter]

the only tool that doesn't exist endgame is an axe (which stops at Grax)

[ashen warren]

fax

[worldly sparrow]

no you mean hammer

[cobalt pewter]

wait I mean hammer

yeaa

[drowsy plank]

yeah lol

[cobalt pewter]

Hammer stops at what, lunar?

or earlier?

[sleek turret]

ye

lunar

[worldly sparrow]

hammer stops at uelibloom

[ashen warren]

grax yea

[cobalt pewter]

yeah, pick has crystyl and axe has photon ripper

while hammer stops at lunar

[glass arch]

hammer stops at grax

[worldly sparrow]

btw can i just mention that this sugg is bordering on being a SIS

[cobalt pewter]

was grax a hamaxe

[worldly sparrow]

yes

[ashen warren]

why

[dense ferry]

It is

[cobalt pewter]

ah then grax it is

I am so confused

[ashen warren]

i didn't specify any stats, so the secs are free to do what they want with it

[worldly sparrow]

its requesting for a relatively specific item to be added

[sleek turret]

from a building perspective adding like wall destroying function to crystyl doesn't feel too bad, it could help for like massive big structures without having to use cheat sheet paint tool for it

[ashen warren]

that's the point of sis

[glass arch]

its asking for a generalized endgame hamaxe

[cobalt pewter]

pick - crystyl (shadowspec)
axe - photon ripper (ares)
hammer (hamaxe) - grax (post-provi)

[glass arch]

asking for a generalized tool/item isnt an SIS

[fervent orbit]

also replace "endgame" with final

[ashen warren]

profile pic is accurate

[fervent orbit]

endgame makes it sound like shadowspec

[ashen warren]

problem?

[sleek turret]

tbh just suggest adding wall destroying capabilities to crystyl for convenience reason

[dense ferry]

?

[ashen warren]

gigachad

[fervent orbit]

calling jacob a chad

[worldly sparrow]

the problem with shadowspec tier is that shadowspec tier is dedicated items

[cobalt pewter]

photon ripper should cut down your screen when used

[dense ferry]

Ok

[drowsy plank]

i dont think he is asking for a shadowspec tier item

[worldly sparrow]

it says "endgame"

[sleek turret]

endgame could just be like

[ashen warren]

QUICK SOMEONE GET A DEDICATED ITEM GOGOGO

[worldly sparrow]

idk maybe hes talking bout auric tier?

[drowsy plank]

yes

[sleek turret]

yeah probably

[ashen warren]

auric is cool

[dense ferry]

Shadowspec is Dev Item exclusively

[sleek turret]

it's the endgame after all (and not post game)

[golden sonnet]

The 2000 donor items yet to be implemented:

[cobalt pewter]

demonshade is a weird case because apparently it's supposed to be a dev thing but whoever was assigned to that has been long dead in Calamity community

[drowsy plank]

i think it is quite clear that he is not asking for an item that explictly breaks the rules like i dont think that is too hard to get lmao

demonshade will not be shadowspec tier pretty soon i believe

[cobalt pewter]

wait was demonshade changed or am I forgetting

ahh

[drowsy plank]

demonshade will be a multi helmet armor next update that is post-SCal im p sure

[glass arch]

yeah dmonshade will be an ashes craft Eventually™️

[ashen warren]

isn't dev tier just gonna be pushed back each time a final boss is added

[cobalt pewter]

yeah ik dshade will be reworked, I just forgot that it'll stay in post scal

[drowsy plank]

i mean that is just yharim but yes

[ashen warren]

you never know

[drowsy plank]

im quite confident

[glass arch]

no we do know

[worldly sparrow]

we kinda do know

[glass arch]

the devs have made up their minds

[golden sonnet]

So dev tier is pre superbosses?

[glass arch]

no more bosses until yharim

[drowsy plank]

the only other bosses coming will be noxus and xeroc which are post-Yharim superbosses

yeah

[glass arch]

yes

[golden sonnet]

Interesting

[ashen warren]

👍

[cosmic karma]

sis + formatting issue + no reasoning + no real detail

fun

[drowsy plank]

@bleak mesa this is a specific item suggestion, has no reasoning, and is misformatted. we already have the cart of the gods anyway

[bleak mesa]

cart of gods doesnt do damage xd

[cosmic karma]

i hope minecarts arent your primary source of damage

[bleak mesa]

they are

[cosmic karma]

most inconvenient method possible

[bleak mesa]

ez damage

people when a mod has more than one minecart 😭 😭 😭

[drowsy plank]

yes it does??

[cosmic karma]

hardmode and beyond, minecarts are very niche; i find the mechanical minecart to be very restricting if you were to use it in an actual bossfight, and outside of bosses its like useful for travel technically? but at that point just get teleporters

[worldly sparrow]

gonna go out on a limb and say this is a troll sugg

[wide river]

Provided Calamity makes all of their minecarts compatible with the Minecart Upgrade Kit, that will be the case, yes

[cobalt pewter]

don't see why it wouldn't be the case

cart of gods will be meta though

unless it actually nerfs it

[worldly sparrow]

i can only see upgraded cart of gods being viable for a dog refight or the exos

[desert walrus]

I was gonna suggest something but good thing I read the “don’t doc” thing first. As it turns out my suggestion would have been “specific” to one weapon

[fervent orbit]

THE IMPOSSIBLE CHALLENGE ISNT IMPOSSIBLE???????!!!!!‼️

[worldly sparrow]

good job, you did what a surprisingly large amount of people don't 😃

[desert walrus]

Why wouldn’t they read the rules specifically for what they were about to do?

[wide river]

I couldn't tell you
Some people don't read the rules for the server itself (somehow), which is why it's pleasantly surprising to see someone read this stuff

[desert walrus]

I’m actually in the middle of reading the rules for this server, despite my join date

[fervent orbit]

im just thankful that a person reads the sugg dont doc

[cobalt pewter]

reading comprehension is a privilege unfortunately

[desert walrus]

F

[small timber]

in the planned future post-DoG moon(s) and solar eclipse upgrade will be completely removed right?

as in soon™️ future planned to be implemented at a soon™️ date kind of soon™️

[drowsy plank]

they'll die when distortion is added

[small timber]

tldr is there is absolutely no plan to move or moons/eclipse having upgrade anymore once distortion is added right?

since I wanted to suggest moving solar eclipse upgrade but if this is the case probably not ideal

(any maybe kinda high effort because post-DoG have darksun tied items)

nvm moving darksun fragment probably make it too high effort unless they moved solar eclipse upgrade without moving darksun fragment

[worthy fiber]

those crafting materials are gonna die

byebye seasonal moon event refights

[bright crag]

Buffed Seasonal Moons will die

Darksun... there is potential for reworking it, so it's uncertain
It's much more workable and appealing

[worldly sparrow]

i would actually like the buffed seasonal moons if there were actually new enemies added

but alas

the devs cant do EVERYTHING + that seems like it would be a v low priority

[frosty trellis]

That also means you have to give them sprites and AI and like... Why bother when they are already gonna do that for distortion anyways? It's wasted effort

[worldly sparrow]

yeah

its a waste of time and resources

[small timber]

what I wanted to suggest was to move buffed Solar Eclipse to post-Providence since that is also a point of severely lacking non-boss content

but profaned biomed is gonna be added (and of course the various darksun items)

[bright crag]

And Providence has no Sun connections

[small timber]

what did the lore change providence to now that it no longer is connected to the sun?

that one is one of the weirder decision to me (outside of making dragons super relevant in the lore from what I head when multiple god-like beings exist)

[bright crag]

The existence of Gods, in Calamity, is directly connected to the existence of Dragons so

[cobalt pewter]

ah yes, thanatos

gave up trying to convince anyone that the vent system is flawed because it's not getting changed ever

[bright crag]

Providence just isn't connected to the Sun
Kinda weird how she was in old lore, because nothing really connected the dots other than "Sun has energy she can siphon"

Providence, in new lore, killed a dragon and absorbed its Auric soul to become a Goddess - the same process undergone by every God

And, while it's not public what dragon she killed, it's definitely not one related to the Sun

Connecting her to the Sun would contradict existing (albeit undisclosed) lore

[small timber]

in the old lore (obviously it is changed now), I always interpret Providence as basically "avatar of the sun" or something similar which is why killing Providence leading to darksun make sense

but yeah since the lore is changed now it don't matter anymore

[bright crag]

She was kinda a Sun Goddess
But at the same time, nothing in her origins or existence tied much into that

I do understand why you'd make such connection

We do have a new interpretation of the Sun, and the Solar Eclipse, in new lore
(Which isn't public currently)
It gives us some interesting material to work with, should we revamp Darksun

[restive kraken]

would it be counted as a joke sugg to suggest for the auric toilet to actually function like a toilet?

[small timber]

yes it will be a joke suggestion

in fact half the people in this channel will flame you for 6 hours continuously if you do that

[restive kraken]

ok trying to clarify

[wide river]

I don't see why it'd be a joke suggestion, personally
It's involving of a meme item (toilet), but I don't see why asking it to function similarly to other toilets would be considered a joke
I think the biggest issue present with the idea is that the Auric Toilet is bigger than normal toilets, so I'm not sure if it'd even function properly

[restive kraken]

thats what im thinking yeah

[ashen warren]

same tbh

i dont think a serious suggestion, for improving a joke item is a bad thing to have

its not the suggestion that's a joke but the item itself

[wide river]

If we're being real, if it passes into voting it'll reach top of its group in no time because toilet funny

Source: The Scal toilet suggestion of November 2022

[restive kraken]

[bright crag]

^

[bright crag]

(And probably be denied)

Unless we do a funny and make it Auric reject players

[glass arch]

you should

[small timber]

sitting on auric toilet and trying to use it will inflict the player with auric rejection even with immunity

[restive kraken]

or you suffer auric rejection when trying to do the stupid thing with powering a toilet via wiring

but instead of it creating poop particles it flings you off and applies auric rejection

[small timber]

for 5 seconds after using the toilet you will be launched in a random front-facing direction of the toilet in a similar fashion of contacting with auric ore and be inflicted with auric rejection for 5 seconds; during this period any block you collide with will cause you to be bounced off (similar to if it is auric ore) and inflict damage to you until 5 seconds have passed, the damage of the contact progressive get stronger the more you collide and bounce

[fathom aspen]

Thanatos is... still a worm, though not a typical one, after all
which makes me think there is no fix for the piercing-melting without reworking attack(vent) patterns or, maybe, implementing something like segment-shared immunity frames

[cobalt pewter]

nah, because apparently according to the devs the current vent system is """"intended""""

and you're dumb for proposing alternatives

[fathom aspen]

[dense ferry]

?

Well, two things

Yeah, Thanatos losing the negative DR would be ideal I feel like

And Auric Toilet will probably still not work for a while because yeah it's best if we do something really funny with it

[bright crag]

I do think Thanatos can lose the negative DR

Not the vent mechanic though
It's cool :c

[dense ferry]

I like the vent mechanic yeah

Problem is just that Thanatos loses way too much defense during it

[small timber]

thanatos just have to be able to open vent more consistently by being more aggressive

[cobalt pewter]

literally any major adjustments would help in the favor of vent's design

but nooooooooo they don't want that because noooooooooo fuck you

I did realize this hate of mine is probably personal

but by god

[random talon]

make it erupt a poop volcano

[deft yew]

hi

[swift wharf]

oh yikes what the fuck

[drowsy plank]

very funny

[halcyon zealot]

gloopy terragrim 😭

[royal tapir]

I love vanilla jank

[fossil finch]

this is like, not vanilla jank because its fault of calamity rezising it but

[royal tapir]

Fault of how vanilla does size changes

[fossil finch]

sure youre still responsible of like
Doing th eoffset so it looks fine__ its not like vanilla has any method of doing this naturall

[swift wharf]

I mean

you're making a weapon that's not supposed to be bigger

be bigger

Its best modifier is Godly or Demonic. Both modifiers increase the average damage output by the same amount. The Terragrim's unique means of attack is unaffected by any size and speed modifiers.

so it's not really vanilla jank

[novel belfry]

quick question, how does terragrim compare to other pre-Hardmode true melees?

[halcyon zealot]

decent damage
but not ideal cause hard to get and abysmal range

perfect for stunlocking mobs

not so great for bosses apart from BoC (although I do sometimes use it vs EoW when I get the chance)

that's my vanilla experience, I've hardly used it in Calamity

[deft yew]

really good stunlocker / crowd controller, solid and reliable damage when you can stay in its range, but it has almost no range

it's also very nice that it can be aimed

[sage granite]

Anyone ever made a request in increase Yharons arena in Depth? As in have it go from sky limit to underworld limit to stop players going under it?

[drowsy plank]

huh

that thing already has a huge amount of verticality im not sure why you'd need to increase it

[grave zinc]

@restive kraken - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make the Dragonblood Disgorger's tooltip more clear]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@gusty burrow - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Rename Nuclear Rod to “Nuclear Fuel Rod”]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@hybrid steeple - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make Celestial Onion's tooltip say what it actually does]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[restive kraken]

poger

[crude geode]

Truly suggs of all time

[wide river]

These suggestion groups are getting smaller, huh
That's like two in a row that have only had three suggestions pass

[crude geode]

It is indeed wack

[wide river]

Maybe it's because the regular posters are waiting for the port (or something)
I know I am, at least

[crude geode]

I only have one thing in mind for posting and it’s the “remove potions from shops” once the port hits and things die down after that

[deft yew]

i can smell a swift rejection on the wind for that one

[crude geode]

I can smell a boot up an ass on the wind for you

[fervent orbit]

i mean he aint wrong

no ones gonna vote for that

[crude geode]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[deft yew]

oh no i agree

(with the sugg in question

[crude geode]

Yeah

I just want it out there (even tho the devs tend to catch wind of my ranting most of the time, thank you ravager move, even when it only happens in here)

[random talon]

what ravager move?

[wide river]

The plans to move Ravager to post-Providence or whatever
It just won't be where it is now, in any case

[random talon]

ah

[novel belfry]

i wonder what's taking that plan so long, is it the loot or something?

cause i am hyped for that plan

[wide river]

I can't speak for the devs, but my own assumption is:
It's likely part "Other things have higher priority", part "It would require a decent amount of rebalancing", and part "It would likely come with a whole rework"
But again, this is my own assumptions. I can't say that this is entirely accurate, but I'd have to guess that I'm at least partially correct

[novel belfry]

seems about as best of an explanation as i can get

[small timber]

they have to rework the entire fight to fit post-Providence

because the point of the ravager move is that it will come with a near full rework of the fight, because the devs stated that they don't like how ravager is right now

and chances are it will also have ties/come after with profaned biome so

[wide river]

Yes, exactly
A grounded boss won't work well when the player has so much mobility already, so either it needs to completely cripple the player's mobility, or it'll have its own arena (highly unlikely) to contain the player

[glass arch]

yeah its been said a bunch that ravager in its current state is the worst boss in calamity
even i, a ravager fan have to admit out of all the bosses its the one thats lacking the most

[small timber]

ravager is not even that bad, most people just never figure out how to fight it

it is more that the fight don't have the guts to literally remove flight during the fight so people can pretty much still rungod the first phase

that and the rapid fire fist is awful because it pretty much just force fast weapon that have piercing (because of pillar) or summoner

[pine star]

I find Ravager more boring than anything

this is from someone who primarily plays melee

mostly false melee though

[tidal epoch]

About the Thanatos DR
Maybe the reactive DR can be truly used here, lets say that you use a weapon that hits 20 segments the second, then it should make the worm to recieve half damage until you reduce the dps for 2 seconds to less than 15 segment hits the second, it can be nice so you get more damage on low range or non piercing weapons, but get lower with piercing weapons

[drowsy plank]

...

that's just pierce resist

that's already in the game

or well

that's more like RDR which

no

[glass arch]

that just sounds like increasing pierce resist yeah

[bright crag]

All of those assumptions are simultaneously correct

I don't truly know when Ravager rework will be done, but I guess that after Sunken Sea overhaul

Porting has thrown a massive wrench in our plans, so...

We have been planning and spriting things though
Like Cryonic rework

More or less individualized chunks of content that just need some reworked functionality/aesthetics

Which actually leads me to another example of a delay - Perennial set
It's too entangled in connections to outright rework, so we've been handling other sets first
For that reason, after we're done with the Cryonic plans, we'll make the plans for Hydrothermic instead

[small timber]

perennial is planned for rework? F funni perma dash and super tank set
builder set who

[bright crag]

Perennial is
Not considering the armor, which is actually cool, and 1-2 weapons, the entire set is really ech

Mid-HM plant ore is also not the most original idea

Though I don't think we'll change the armor
It's awesome rn

[mortal rock]

Quick question related to reworks/resprite anything on the elemental weapons from post ml/pre providince

[bright crag]

Some disconnected suggestions and art in dev, nothing super concrete
They are a bit entangled, being a stepping stone to Miracle Matter
And we're focusing on other things first

The concept art we had for the rework was scrapped, since it had been made by Iban iirc

The artpieces we do have were made afterwards

[mortal rock]

Ah good to know that the elemental weapons are at the very least planned but I can't wait to see the Cyronic and hydrothermic reworka

*reworks

[bright crag]

Me too :)

Aerialite is fully planned, about half the items are sprited, none were coded

We're still planning Cryonic
All weapons and armor planned, none sprited or coded - but the materials/bar have some sprites, and the armor sprites are going well (as you've seen in the official Twitter)
Still need to plan the accessories and tools

Hydrothermic hasn't started at all, just a "when we finish Cryonic, we'll do this"

[drowsy plank]

the big life alloy bars rework

lul

[oblique geyser]

95% of perennial stuff overlaps with chlorophyte

[glass arch]

yeah, i remember iban saying in calart to not use his concept art for respriting the elemental weapons and instead try to use aote

[frosty trellis]

In terms of weapons yeah

In terms of armor? Well, no not really lol

[pine star]

reaver armor is now actually pretty interesting

[blazing kettle]

wait what? they enrage on the surface?

[high nest]

Yep

[deft yew]

amazing first line

[pine star]

Today I fucking learned

[royal tapir]

The enrage is very minor but yes

Like tbh it’s an “”””””enrage””””””
More realistic to say they get less aggressive underground tbh

[wide river]

I think the "enrage" is just "they move faster" for Perfs and "increased cycling of attack patterns" for Hive Mind

[pine star]

yeah

I never noticed that they even did enrage

[golden sonnet]

Honestly just rewording it would be fine like CIT said

[wide river]

I think so too, yeah

[pine star]

yeah

[rocky hare]

Craft recipe for rod,i just dont understand,why its not already in the game

[glass arch]

because you dont need 3 different obtainment methods for rod and recipes for everything get boring fast

[rocky hare]

3 dif ways?

What's the second

[glass arch]

buy from wizard in the hallow

[rocky hare]

Oh,i will know now

Soo,i spent an hour of my life for nothing

Yaaay

[hollow shell]

@ashen warren teehee

[ashen warren]

I do not think my suggestion was liked

You know I put a lot of thought into that

[hollow shell]

tMod 1.4.4 isn't public yet

It just entered pre-release beta stage though

[ashen warren]

Yea, kinda sucks how long it takes for each version to update

And now they’re releasing 1.4.5 like that’s just insane

[shut pollen]

it’s so much work to port

but yeah they gotta go back to 1 update every 5 years please

so we got time

[small timber]

People above explained that the enrage is very minor but I dont think they explained why the "small enrage" is in place (except cit mentioned it)

Evil bosses, by default, is designed to be fought in the underground arena because the biome literally is underground, which as you may imagine tend to be limited in space

Thus both perf/hive mind are designed to be very passive because otherwise an arena expansion will become mandatory. However, this restriction do not exist on surface where you have much larger horizontal space for the boss that allow you to dodge more freely

So TLDR: the "enrage" is literally a compensation for larger arena for an otherwise very passive boss, it is not supposed to "fuck you for using a surface arena" kind of enrage, hence why the enrage is so minor compare to others (say plantera surface enrage)

It is just meant to be "somewhat more aggressive" so the fight dont become completely trivial by rungodding

To certain degree as cit said, because cyst tend to be spawn on surface, the "surface enraged" version is literally the "normal fight" in that sense, and the no enrage underground version can be treated as a "reverse enrage in underground" where they are more passive because limited space

[swift wharf]

I forgot that they have an enrage

[high nest]

On the other hand the enrage is the same as the enrage for fighting it outside the crimson/corruption, which is a position an enrage that was real would make sense for. Even taking this into account from a design perspective I think it just makes more sense to let it be balanced around a default fighting anywhere evil, because the current surface enrage is just not an obvious mechanic that doesnt improve the gameplay experience, its just there

what does the soft surface enrage do besides "this enemy can spawn on the surface but actually you were supposed to reuse your EoW or Brain arena"

[novel belfry]

it doesnt really seem that useful anyways

[small timber]

Are you sure it is the same?

Unless they changed it the surface enrage is way less aggressive than actual out of biome enrage

If it is "the same" chances are it is they removed the biome enrage at a random patch I didnt keep track of, because if a boss is "actually enraged" it will be super easily noticeable because enrage is supposed to kill the player, which surface enrage is not

[high nest]

I havent tested the out of biome enrage but the wiki lists them with no distinguishing between the two

[fervent orbit]

you can assume the speed increases are different

[high nest]

which is another point of "the surface enrage is unintuitive"

[small timber]

If your only reference of "it is unintuitive" is because you search wiki and it didnt say the enrage is different then you should go suggest at wiki page instead not here

#wiki-discussion there is actually a channel for wiki stuffs

[high nest]

"Summons the Perforator Hive when used in the Crimson
Enrages outside the Underground Crimson
Not consumable"

The description for the summoner

[small timber]

Because if is not an enrage

[fervent orbit]

itss not lying

[small timber]

It is called an "enrage" because of incredibly poor choice of wording

[high nest]

Its unintuitive that there are two if you look solely at in-game info

[fervent orbit]

its just not stating the different levels of agression when compared to outside crimrons vs outside underground crimson

[high nest]

where they spawn the spawn enemy on the surface and the item doesnt note theres more than one enrage

Its just messy

[small timber]

If you want a more accurate wording it should be like this:

Summons the Perforator Hive when used in the Crimson

Enrages outside of Crimson biome
Less aggressive inside Underground Crimson

Not consumable

[high nest]

For a surface enrage that multiple people here didnt know existed

[small timber]

And if anything the fact that the summon item directly tell you that fighting in Underground Crimson is better then it already give you a hint that you should fight it underground

[hollow shell]

Yeah
I was boutta say
The issue is that that difference in enrage severity between bosses is not communicated via the tooltip's language

[high nest]

You cant craft that until you fight it normally once :)

So its not a source of info until after the fact

which is still not good or player friendly

[deft yew]

hives summon recipes

i really wish the tumor and cyst would drop them instead of the recipes existing

[small timber]

Because the "enrage" in question literally do not matter

The surface enrage is literally a "normal mode" for the fight

[wide river]

What, drop the summon items?
Wouldn't that defeat the point of having the unique summons?

[small timber]

As long as the player is not trying to take it out of biome the fight is still in a "normal" state

[high nest]

Then why is it listed side by side with the enrage outside the biome with no indication in the summoning item, then why is it an enrage at all

[fervent orbit]

also if ur gonna argue for perf and hivemind, then u also have to argue for boc and eow

[small timber]

Because Cal like to use the word "enrage" to communicate that "the boss is stronger" instead of "if you do this the boss will fuck you up for trying to trivialize a condition"

[small timber]

Like I said the current state of Hive Mind and Perforator surface enrage is literally like this

For example Polterghast have a block "enrage" where it just move faster and deal more damage

Then there is a "surface enrage" where it have like 3x acceleration yet both are called enraged

[high nest]

And how does it communicate this by summoning the spawn enemy in the surface, when fighting it where a new player knows it spawns, is changing it from the intended fighting method and powering it up

[small timber]

While the block enrage is supposed to compensate larger arena and the surface is to be anticheese

[glass arch]

except its not an unintended way to fight the boss

the reason it has the """enrage""" is so that its not a piss easy fight when you fight it on the surface

[small timber]

Because you do not have to know this information

Because it is supposed to compensate the larger arena not to kill you straight up

Like I said, if anything the surface is the "normal state"

It is just people search on wiki and found out an undisclosed information and mad about it

[glass arch]

its not an "oh you done fucked up now" situation, its a "yeah the boss is slightly harder now that you have much more room to dodge it" situation

[deft yew]

do the summons say they "enrage" outside the underground

[high nest]

Yes

[small timber]

Yeah which is why I dislike how cal use the word "enrage" too loosely

[deft yew]

cal health bar indicates enrages, right?

[high nest]

!wiki bloody worm food

[red storm]

https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Bloody_Worm_Food

[glass arch]

yes

the boss' name text glows red

[deft yew]

does the cal bar turn red when the hives are on the surface

[glass arch]

yes

[small timber]

The health bar enrage is not super indicative, and also not super accurate

[deft yew]

then that is actually an issue ye

[deft yew]

this

[small timber]

Things like Polterghast block enrage also will make the name turn red

[glass arch]

and itll also give it the enraged shader

[high nest]

The core of the issue here I think is really the first line of the suggestion

[glass arch]

this has just turned into a consistency with enrages convo

[high nest]

it is the one that chose to spawn on the surface

itd be like if anahita spawned in any pool of water big enough but enraged outside the ocean

[small timber]

Spawning and fighting it on the surface do not put you at a disadvantage

[fervent orbit]

you have an advantage of fighting the surface

[wide river]

It happens
A suggestion exists, so people look for things that are similar to the suggestion's topic, and then it becomes a conversation about anything relevant

[fervent orbit]

AN OPEN SPACE

[glass arch]

no itd be like if anahita spawned on the beach and had slightly more acceleration outside of the water

or attacked slightly faster

[small timber]

The different of enrage here is thay Leviathan enrage will literally kill you by attacking like 3 times faster

Perf/hive mind enrage is just "this boss is more aggressive because you have more room to dodge so it can actually catch you"

[deft yew]

i get the impression this isn't going anywhere for anyone

[small timber]

Hive mind/perf enrage is not like yharon where it deal 2000 damage and charge at speed of light or Plantera where they literally become near invincible

[deft yew]

making a sugg about improving enrage wording would go somewhere though

[high nest]

I think what should probably be agreed on is the current in game state of it is not communicated well at all

instead of getting into details

[small timber]

I think it is less communication problem than choice of wording problem

[deft yew]

it is communication in the case of the health bar

[small timber]

And also wiki problem because somehow people like to search wiki and then come back to complain about information that do not matter being undisclosed

[high nest]

Gonna be real with you I didn't know there was an enraged mode healthbar thing, and nothing in the mod really gives a player reason to know that or be on the look out for it

[glass arch]

what should happen is the enrage state on the healthbar is removed on the surface crim/corrupt and the summon says something along the lines of "is more agressive when fought in the surface crimson/corruption"

[high nest]

I honestly think that if the surface fight for hive mind and perf is intended it shouldnt be an enrage it should just be the fight

[glass arch]

ok so how would you know that the boss is enraged aside from looking at the summon you get after killing the boss then

[small timber]

Do the Storm Weaver summon item should tell you to get The Transformer from the Storm Scuttler because it is really good for the boss? Or that the fact that Storm Scuttler drop The Transformer which is really good for Storm Weaver is not disclosed or communicated in the game is a bad thing? No

To me the only thing that should be communicated is when "doing something will significantly detrack you from the intended experience"

In this case by all means it is still intended hence I personally dont think there is any need to disclose it

The one that need to be communicated is the "out of bioem enrage" but that kind of is a norm already for most bosses especially if you played vanilla

[glass arch]

the only reason they have more agression on the surface is so they can actually keep up with you, not to punish the player for fighting them outside of the underground evil

[small timber]

Yeah tldr is I will not even call the surface enrage an "enrage" because it definitely is not severe enough to qualify as one

[high nest]

Lets not be purists and imagine a normal player finds a cyst, they dont know what it does, they kill it, die to the boss. They look it up. Maybe they find the boss checklist entry and see the spawn item description, maybe the wiki, but they know it enrages on the surface now, so now they are going to build an arena underground. It being an "enrage" at all indicates to most people "oh so i shouldnt do that"

[glass arch]

which is all using external resources which isnt taken into account when balancing
yes, it should be reworded
but using external resources as reasons why it should be reworded is pretty ech

[swift wharf]

how is that happening really an issue though

this situation in specific

[glass arch]

and yeah thats not an issue at all they're just fighting an easier version of the same boss with less room

[fervent orbit]

HA

PAINMT

IT ILLUSTRATES ALL PROBLEMS

[ashen warren]

i think noob has officially lost it

[fervent orbit]

I HAVE LOST NOTHING EXCEPT MY SANITY

[wide river]

Was this ever news tbf

[small timber]

Perfectly sane I think imo iirc

[glass arch]

this is a good diagram for it

its different environments for fighting the boss, the one thats easier to prepare for the fight has a slightly harder version of the fight

the one thats harder to prepare for the fight has an easier version of the fight

[small timber]

And only by a small margin, as in the difference of the easier and harder version

[ashen warren]

I definitely agree with minerva that the wording should be changed though

[glass arch]

as i said before, the surface enrage isnt an "oh you done fucked up now" enrage

[high nest]

Like my main point here is the current state of this mechanic is messy, unintuitive, and doesnt really make for a good experience

[ashen warren]

"enrage" carries a certain connotation in terraria

[small timber]

If anything fighting on surface tend to give you a net advantage because turns out more space is really good

[wide river]

It should definitely be communicated better, yeah

[high nest]

I'm down to adjust the suggestion but i think the current state of it just aint how things should be

[ashen warren]

trying to think of how you would reword that

the boss becomes faster if fought on the surface?

[golden sonnet]

You can just use "aggressive"

[glass arch]

becomes more aggressive on the surface crimson/corruption
enrages outside of the crimson/corruption

[small timber]

If the suggestion is about "clarifying" the "enrage" condition sure why not

If it is still about removing the "surface enrage" then is still a no

[wide river]

This works, yes

[ashen warren]

i like that

[small timber]

I think this description is closer, just have to somehow give it to the player

[high nest]

Remove calling it an enrage at all, don't mention it on the item. Make the item only mention enraging outside the crimson/corruption, and that leaves less of an idea that you gotta fight it anywhere specific

[swift wharf]

Hiding the fact that the boss still is more aggressive outside of the surface is still bad

[high nest]

If its a big enough deal to matter on the description the cyst/tumor should not spawn in the surface, if its a normal way to fight it, it shouldnt be an enrage

[glass arch]

tell players that the boss is more agressive on the surface, not that it enrages on the surface

[drowsy plank]

the mechanic is not weird or messy it should just be that the boss gets faster on the surface, not that it enrages

even BoC and EoW do this

[ripe owl]

Holy shit based suggestion

[ornate kestrel]

Wait

I've always fought them on surface

Wtf

[golden tulip]

yea i think most of us do

[sleek turret]

yeah

it's easier to adjust the terrain and shit

[grizzled dome]

I had a brain of cthulhu underground arena and fought perforators there since I already had an arena of tolerable size. It was just two bosses back-to-back in the same spot.

[shut pollen]

yeah but evil 2 literally spawns on the surface lol

[drowsy plank]

evil2 spawns anywhere

if you really wanted you could just cap the cyst spawns lmao

[grizzled dome]

Yeah, I'd run up and down a bit. Though this was for crimson where there's nicer "mouths". I think it was nearer the surface and I lured it down a bit?

[shut pollen]

yeah but primarily on the surface from my expirence

corruption is more split but it’s just awful placement usually

[drowsy plank]

just

stop it from spawning on the surface

[shut pollen]

yeah but then it’s just evil 1 but different for spawn requirements

[drowsy plank]

...yes

it already is

[crude geode]

Evil 2 when it has to cover up 500 faults

[drowsy plank]

evil2 when it sucks

[marble moat]

why is evil2 right after evil1

what's the point again

its like

[drowsy plank]

yes

[marble moat]

you fought this boss with a spawning mechanic of breaking things!

now fight this boss with a spawning mechanic of breaking a thing in the exact same place

like huh???

[weary bane]

i hope the eventual***™*** evil2 boss rework will give them a better place in progression

[marble moat]

cant you just put them post skeletron or something so there's more after that than just slime god and maybe QB if you didnt fight it, before WOF?

[drowsy plank]

it wont <3

they're not being moved

[marble moat]

why

[drowsy plank]

idk

lore

[marble moat]

lore doesn't change progression?

[wide river]

Moving Evil2 would require moving Aerialite too, don't forget

[marble moat]

true

[drowsy plank]

lore is intertwined with progression

[deft yew]

or you could give aerialite a better connection to a boss than

[marble moat]

i mean like

[deft yew]

the hives???

[weary bane]

why is aerialite even connected to the evil2 bosses

[marble moat]

pre-hm stuff should all be pretty equal right

[drowsy plank]

we dont know yet!

[deft yew]

2016 syndrome

it already took us this long to even move the ore to the sky

[drowsy plank]

the new lore from next update appearntly very heavily connects the two

[weary bane]

what does purple big brain and red broccoli have to do with the sky

[marble moat]

can we put some random ass boring bosses in between them then

like deerclops

[drowsy plank]

nope

[marble moat]

why

[drowsy plank]

already tried that

[weary bane]

that's gonna need to be one hell of an explanation

[drowsy plank]

got denied

[deft yew]

orios are you okay

[weary bane]

i think

[marble moat]

it just seems so... boring

[drowsy plank]

correct!

[marble moat]

you fight one boss then fight it again with a new moveset

[drowsy plank]

yes

[marble moat]

so why is it there

[drowsy plank]

idk

[wide river]

Are you talking about Calamity or Elden Ring

[marble moat]

i have beat like 2 bosses in that game i have no idea

i am not good at video games

[deft yew]

i would love to elaborate but i may end up getting shot at

[drowsy plank]

just dodge the bullets

[marble moat]

calamity nerfed dodge tho....

[drowsy plank]

[deft yew]

if you say "just don't get hit"

as a nohitter, I'M KILLING Y

[marble moat]

what do the devs say about the progression tho

[wide river]

Insert "IM KILLING YOU.ogg"

[marble moat]

since im fine with putting aerialite pre-qb and skeletron

[drowsy plank]

they dont like it either but they say the main problem is evil1 actually

[deft yew]

successfully inserted

[marble moat]

but why put them so close to each other

[deft yew]

good grief has something internal about my volume control changed

[drowsy plank]

which is why me and fryzzah started putting together a mod to move evil1 to post-ML

[marble moat]

so why not move evil-1 earlier... oh hellstone

but reaver shark tho

[deft yew]

why not just move evil2 to hardmode instead

cluele

[marble moat]

hm

[drowsy plank]

evil1 is already the first boss after the pre-Boss stage basically

[deft yew]

they literally start dropping the hardmode essences in hardmode they are BEGGING to be moved

[weary bane]

give them the ravager treatment

it'd also make the evils more relevant in hardmode

[marble moat]

if they're already putting in the effort to lore connect them to aerialite they can stay but why cant we just tier up some bosses to be equal with evil 2 or smth

surely it's just tweaking numbers right (clueless)

[weary bane]

surely creating new ai for the bosses is fairly simple right

[marble moat]

do you need new ai?

[weary bane]

i dont think they're as threatening when you can fly

[marble moat]

what changes if you move the crab post-evil 1 that necessitates an ai change

[deft yew]

uhh nothing ig?

[drowsy plank]

just buff them a bit lol

[marble moat]

like evil 2 pre skeletron is alright i guess

since aerialite

[drowsy plank]

i think putting crab and deer between evil1 and evil2 would fix so many issues but

[gritty cargo]

you should bump up a bosses hp and speed using the faster enemies mode and test it

[drowsy plank]

nope

[marble moat]

did they say why nope?

[wide river]

Let me dig it up

[drowsy plank]

no lol

[marble moat]

are you like, forbidden from asking?

[deft yew]

loving how all of the proposed solutions have to awkwardly work around the fact the hives exist

because we can't just do something to the hives themselves

[wide river]

When the suggestion was revealed to be denied, that is
I think there was a small-ish explanation

[drowsy plank]

here's the deny

[10:33 PM]
As someone whi voted against
I don't think there's a way to truly fix the awkwardness if evil-2
Any route we take either replaces a problem with another, or detracts from valuable things evil-2 provides
[10:34 PM]
My colleagues also pointed out that major reshuffling would be incredibly high effort```

[wide river]

It was mainly "It would be too much effort, would cause problems itself, and just wouldn't fix the issues"

[deft yew]

"reworking evil1 to be not evil"

[drowsy plank]

haha yes

[golden sonnet]

Evil 2 just sucks for so many reasons

[drowsy plank]

i still dont

[marble moat]

i am still not exactly sure why moving a boss up and a boss down would be too difficult but also, i'm not a dev so i can't just assume that it's as easy as tweaking numbers

[drowsy plank]

think evil2 provides anything valuable so i dont get it

no i mean
it really wouldnt be that hard to do that kind of shuffling like the bosses are already around that tier and deer needs to be completely reworked in rev+ anyway so!! idk!!!

[weary bane]

evil 2 will never provide anything of value when it's just stapled together with their evil 1 counterparts

[wide river]

One would have to rebalance several boss drop sets, anything acquired after beating said bosses (Like NPC shop items), and also change the bosses themselves to better fit their new positions

[deft yew]

why has rev+ deerclops been glued to the backburner anyway

[drowsy plank]

bc fab hates him

[marble moat]

it's like moving it up one boss though do you need to change it that much (for the crab)

what does crabulon unlock anyways

[drowsy plank]

that's it that's the whole reason

[deft yew]

the longer it sits with nothing given to it, the more people will hate it

[drowsy plank]

crab unlocks. crabulon drops
👍

[wide river]

Rage upgrade

[deft yew]

and the less people care about it enough to work on it

which perpetuates the cycle !

[drowsy plank]

i mean i get it they want to focus on something other than bosses
it's a graaah fix every calamity problem now but
even something just stitched together (like how i see EoL AI tbqh) would be better than just

leaving him like this

[wide river]

Crazy how any suggestion regarding Evil2 in its entirety always devolves into a "Evil2 bad please fix" conversation

[gritty cargo]

skyfringe pickaxe is pretty cool

[drowsy plank]

i mean!!! it's true!!!!

[marble moat]

is it that much of a problem to move it to like evil1

[drowsy plank]

do we even still have pickaxes in the aerialite rework

[gritty cargo]

basically a nightmare pick alt

[deft yew]

man

[drowsy plank]

idr

[deft yew]

so many bosses that just exist and are there and we have to work around their existence

because it is not possible to make them not exist

[gritty cargo]

fandom wiki⚠️

[drowsy plank]

i dont want evil2 to not exist i want it to be moved to hardmode because evils literally stop being relevant after mechs and moving them would fix that but

no

it's neva gonna happen

[deft yew]

[marble moat]

hm

personally i dont think it'd be that bad if the only thing that was changed was moving crab up after or on tier with evil1 because I'm not sure how you'd have to change it other than buffing its hp and attacks by like 20% or something, then adding 2-4 damage to each drop to put it on-tier with evil 1

[drowsy plank]

crab is ass rn in terms of being hard at all and deer is untouched which is why i thought "why not deal with 3 birds with 1 stone" but

¯_(ツ)_/¯

crab also has like no identity beyond being the funny meme boss with the banger song

[marble moat]

i think that's all the identity it needs tbh

[deft yew]

NormalModeCrabulon.mp4 is branded onto the surface of my cerebrum

[drowsy plank]

i dont know that one

[ornate kestrel]

Deer is free

[weary bane]

the singular mushroom got me

[deft yew]

true

[drowsy plank]

boss fight

[glass arch]

in my first pt i would still struggle

first pt me was

kinda insane

[golden sonnet]

Wtf, is this actually his normal mode ai???

[marble moat]

why is it less aggressive than a hell demon 😭

[high nest]

this follow up to the eye of cthulu introduces the normal mode player to the concept of a boss "attacking" and even having more than one attack! Hang in there normal mode player, you'll get it next time

[hybrid steeple]

TRUE

[high nest]

(what expert folks forget is normal mode is for Actual Children)

(and learning the game but like. its for both)

(everyone is an honorary baby on their first playthrough)

[hollow shell]

@graceful dome We got a dedicated thread: #1042197406776827914

Here lemme deliver it over

[drowsy plank]

im just gonna delete this lol

it's in balance suggs this isn't exactly something u can fix lol

[hollow shell]

I was about to say "Seems kinda strange to want to swap between four different ammo types"
But then I remembered that... different ranger weapons take different ammo

And your 4 slots will probably be maxed with just one ammo for each weapon type you have

so no room for swaps

[eager bobcat]

Eight slots would feel really good

[golden sonnet]

On the one hand, it's like 3 inventory slots it's not that big of an issue, but on the other hand you shouldn't need to sacrifice slots just for playing a class

[thorn night]

swapping ammo would be so nice for bows especially, using wooden for planetary but then lumite for something like the storm is kinda a pain

[drowsy plank]

i am 100% in support of this and am also 100% sure this is probably going to get the shit denied out of it

barring the fact that i already know the coin slot is hell i cant imagine ammo is any better

plus next update we get void bag anyway which already doubles the inventory size

i just dont think the devs would consider this either worth the effort, or actually balanced in any manner

[thorn night]

another way would be having certain guns convert all to their custom type but that causes its own problems

[drowsy plank]

we already have weapons that do that

it just means you get bonus damage on them for free

doesnt actually solve anything

[eager bobcat]

What could be unbalanced about it? I understand it might be a coding nightmare, but what are the balance concerns?

[drowsy plank]

venom arrows

[golden sonnet]

I feel like this is 2 suggestions

[wide river]

Arrow
Bullet
Rocket
Other
That's what I see as the ammo slots currently. However, not every tier has each of those four weapon types, so a few slots can get freed up depending on what you're primarily using
I'd be fine with even just one extra ammo slot, but I don't know how hard it'd be to make/how it'd get acquired
Maybe a Shimmer thing, once 1.4.4 comes out?

[golden sonnet]

One about increasing slots, one about having a way to swap

[drowsy plank]

also in boss fights like

u dont really need inventory slots

[thorn night]

another thing is just that alot of people myself included use bows and guns not just 1

[drowsy plank]

yeah typically you carry one ammo for each type of weapon like ench said

also id say rocket/gel cause flamethrowers are just as, if not more common than launchers

[eager bobcat]

That wasn't my intention. Having extra slots just inherently lends to being able to swap your active ammo around more easily. Just a quick drag-and-drop across a single square.

[drowsy plank]

i mean you can still do the same thing with the right side of ur inventory

it's not like u need 4 different types of arrows or something

which is the only thing the ammo bar really helps with in the midst of the fight is controlling ammo usage order

u shouldnt really need to swap ammo types for more than 1 type of weapon

otherwise id argue you're probably just overcomplicating things for yourself

[eager bobcat]

Why not? Throughout the game, certain weapons work better with a specific ammo, which may not be your generic best ammo of that type. Having the piercing utility of luminite arrows on hand, for instance. All of this is already possible, my suggestion was simply about removing some clunk and inventory management from the Ranger class.

[drowsy plank]

if ur using luminite u are late enough in the game that u probably can oneshot normal enemies, and if ur using them on a boss there is probably only one type of weapon that is good on said boss

which is a problem with the lack of exploration but my point is if u have 6 weapons in ur hotbar and ur using like 8 different types of ammo i think u are an outlier and might be making the game more difficult for urself than u need to be

[eager bobcat]

If you don't want to keep ammo in your main inventory, and have one slot for each ammo type (Arrow, Bullet, Rocket, Gel, maybe bait, solutions, etc.), if you want to change ammo for any reason you've got to go to a chest and swap things around. Even in base Terraria, I find ammo competing for slots with generic utility.

[marble moat]

damn i think i was just personally attacked

[marble moat]

common money trough W

[drowsy plank]

lol u stole my message

void bag too

[eager bobcat]

I refer back to this

[drowsy plank]

i disagree with this anyway

mage exists

[eager bobcat]

What does mage have to sacrifice?

[drowsy plank]

mana pots

the fact ranger gets 4 slots of their own already is quite generous
if u need more than 5 slots like

idk

[eager bobcat]

One slot for a stack of potions isn't really comparable.
There's also the thinking going on that ammo slots are just for the ranger class, which is untrue.

[fervent orbit]

correct! there is 1 ammo that isnt ranger!

its just for one very specific item

[eager bobcat]

Bait? Wire?

[novel belfry]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

that is the absolute worst boss i've ever seen

that is straight up a miniboss

[fervent orbit]

!wiki ice barrage

[red storm]

https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Ice_Barrage

[marble moat]

there's also the plague engine thingy but thats just one bullet

idk i use the ammo slots to store gel in my playthroughs lol

[fervent orbit]

plague engine just uses normaal bullets so it doesnt count

[eager bobcat]

I also store gel there but I wasn't going to bring that up because of the already strange amount of pushback lol

[marble moat]

i mean its like

i dont really see why we need it

but also im not complaining about more slots

[eager bobcat]

Its literally just inventory clunk. Ranger shouldn't lose a bunch of inventory utility just for existing.

[novel belfry]

Remove the ability for Death Mode Antlions to fire multiple sand blocks.

This attack belongs to the Get Fixed Boi seed, NOT a Death Mode Antlion.
(not complete, would like criticism)

[eager bobcat]

I agree its not of major importance, but it would be a nice small QOL thing

[fervent orbit]

oh no 5 more blocks of sand

[novel belfry]

I have never been so tilted at literally 5 more blocks of sand

this is the single worst thing calamity does, unironically

[fervent orbit]

no

no its not

[novel belfry]

the world would be infinitely better with this change

[fervent orbit]

here let me teach you a secret tactic

jumping

you can do it by hitting the spacebar

let me teach you another secret tactic

placing

you hold m1 with a block and you can place it down

[novel belfry]

clearly you haven't met deathmode antlions

[fervent orbit]

let me teach ANOTHER secret tactic

walking

[eager bobcat]

Please stop being unnecessarily rude

[fervent orbit]

you can hold either a or d to dodge

[marble moat]

yea why so condescending lmao

[fervent orbit]

yes i have

[lavish condor]

The problem is that the sand blocks linger and make you break them

Until you get nightmare/deathbringer soft blocks take 2 hits to break. Especially with copper it takes a bit to clean it up

[novel belfry]

it's super annoying to clean it all up, only for another antlion to put another bunch of them

[fervent orbit]

if its on the surface, there doesnt really need to be a clean up

[novel belfry]

it's even worse when you're trying to build arenas

cause they will absolutely fuck over them

(which is what I'm doing rn)

[fervent orbit]

[[Calming Potion]] during arena building

[red storm]

https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Calming_Potion

[lavish condor]

Antlions are one of the only mobs that place or break blocks

that one frost legion enemy being the only other I can think of

Oh and ftw prime

Getting your world griefed by a randomly spawning enemy isn't great

[novel belfry]

that's the problem, this sort of change really only belongs to FTW and GFB

where such changes are expected

[cobalt pewter]

I'm too tired to scroll up so imma

[fervent orbit]

"death mode antlion is too hard"

[cobalt pewter]

@eager bobcat the inventory slot would sort out ammo anyways, there's an additional 40 slots already

[lavish condor]

They aren't saying it's hard they're saying it's annoying because it griefs your world. I've never seen anyone complaining about the difficulty of small enemies unless their damage is unnecessarily high

[cobalt pewter]

not sure why there needs to be more ammo slots when the game barely utilizes those slots to their biggest potential

(which Risk of Terrain mod did)

[lavish condor]

If you want to post that I would use the mass block placement and potentially it being the only common enemy that does that as reasoning

[fervent orbit]

grief is an overstatement, its 5 soft blocks, which is only a problem underground, because on the surface, desert is already relatively flat

[lavish condor]

The thing is that it griefs in general. It's one of three enemies that does that, the others being snow balla and ftw prime. One is frost legion, One is FTW. Something as simple as making the extra blocks not stay down would make the enemy better designed

[eager bobcat]

This is about all I have left to say in regards to that. Rangers lose the ability to put things like Wire, Bait, Clentamination Solution, Gel, etc. in their Ammo slots because they need them to play the game. Not to mention that there aren't even enough ammo slots for one each type of ammo in common weapons. Rockets have a ton of utility ammos also.

[fervent orbit]

the problem with the suggestion is that its talking about the larger attack not the fact that it griefs

[novel belfry]

that is the point of the sugg

[fervent orbit]

no its not

"Remove the ability for Death Mode Antlions to fire multiple sand blocks."

[lavish condor]

You could highlight that in the sugg

[novel belfry]

i was asking for criticism, which i'm pretty sure isn't "heckle the guy who's suggesting"

[cobalt pewter]

the issue is that the inventory slots will just act as ammo slots in order of left to right, up to down

so the argument about rangers losing ammo slots is irrelevant when the guns can just take ammo from inventory slots anyways

unless ammo slots do something meaningful, it's just an extension of inventory slots right now

[fervent orbit]

you can simply just make the sugg

"Make Antlions unable to grief (except on FTW)"

if that was the original intention

you did not make that clear in the slightest

[lavish condor]

The suggestion is a work in progress. That's why they posted it here instead of posting

[eager bobcat]

the point is that they shouldn't be at a (potentially significant) inventory handicap vs other classes. Inventory management is already one of the most dated problems with the game.

[cobalt pewter]

yeah but at that point we question: is it calamity's work to do that?

[fervent orbit]

@hollow shell

[novel belfry]

silence bot

[hollow shell]

Shit

Kileld

[north oracle]

he ded

[fervent orbit]

you were the most recent mod that talked here thats why i pinged you

[lavish condor]

imagine posting a job offer in a server for a video game mod

[novel belfry]

that's exactly what a bot would do

[eager bobcat]

Well they added a ton of ammo, so it seems reasonable. Maybe, maybe not. I guess we'll see.

[lavish condor]

@novel belfry I don't think the shotgun sand spread in itself is inherently an issue, rather the griefing nature of it. You could sugg to make the extra sand blocks not grief rather than removing the entire attack

[fervent orbit]

.

[glass arch]

i mean
nobody ever said you need to have every single ammo in the game in your inventory

[fervent orbit]

oops i replied to the wrong message

eh

leads to the same place

[novel belfry]

Seems right

[eager bobcat]

I'm just throwing out a bunch of examples. I had 8 total ammo slots in mind when I made the suggestion. I might edit it to reflect my point a bit better.

[novel belfry]

as for the ammo suggestion, I actually don't know if it'll work

[eager bobcat]

The information that it may be too difficult to code was surprising, but understandable

[novel belfry]

im not a coder, but the ammo thing might not be the most doable change

It WOULD be cool tho

[swift wharf]

I disagree

Increasing the slots to 8 would be a mistake

Having an item to hold ammo, however

[deft yew]

the information that something is NOT too difficult to code in this game would surprise me

[swift wharf]

Adding 4 slots would probably lead to some uncanny visual and gameplay issues

I'd rather add something to act as an ammo bag

Maybe make it late-hardmode/post-ml ish because the player definitely does not need more than 4 slots in pre-hardmode and a decent part of hardmode