suggestions-discussion

[unreal saffron]

the suggestion that boss money should have diminishing returns is stupid af

[hybrid steeple]

@ jandS

[wide river]

Hey, no need to insult the person who made the suggestion.

[unreal saffron]

Yeah mb

Just got a bot heated over it

[golden sonnet]

Insult the suggestion not the suggester

[unreal saffron]

Got it

[wide river]

I thought that it would've died in posting, just because it seemed like a high effort suggestion, but to my surprise it got through to voting

[golden tulip]

how you get heated over a suggestion

[unreal saffron]

Still tho, that is very flawed. The way they described it makes it seem like an exponential decrease, meaning at one point all bosses will no longer be profitable, meaning there is no good way of gaining money

[tired haven]

Insult neither and deconstruct the suggestion with arguments instead

[cobalt pewter]

literally no one mentioned about the sugg until I randomly dropped an inverse exponential formula a few hours back

[golden tulip]

all you would need to do is introduce a cap of how low it can go

boom

[cobalt pewter]

you have no one to blame but yourself for not mentioning the sugg before it goes to voting

[golden tulip]

problem solved

[cobalt pewter]

(I really like the sugg btw, it can be smoothed out but the concept is a fuckin banger)

[unreal saffron]

Then that defeats the purpose, because people can then farm them and still make a stable, albeit low, amount of money

[wide river]

I mean I kinda told the person how to execute it but your point stands

[golden tulip]

eya i thought it was a good idea

[cobalt pewter]

coin × 0.85 ^ (kills - 1)

[golden tulip]

and what is wrong with a stable income?

[wide river]

Just so long as something is done with Terraria's broken economy I'll be happy

[cobalt pewter]

the point of the sugg is that

maybe, just maybe, people shouldn't be farming off the 100% of boss money all the fuckin time

[dense ferry]

I must agree that you get too much money out of Bosses

Not an issue with Cal or Exos imo since well, final Bosses

But DS for example is

[cobalt pewter]

get it low enough relative to kills to the point that it's not as profitable to do said boss anymore

[dense ferry]

Funky

Ok hear me out, I know this will sound fucking insane but

[wide river]

Maybe the suggestion isn't the best way of fixing the economy, but it's a good step in the right direction

[unreal saffron]

Issue is it makes mods that sell bags pointless, as you would rather fight a boss and get some money rather than lose most of it buying a bag

[swift wharf]

tbf you get more money from DS drops than DS itself

[dense ferry]

Demand Mechanic

[cobalt pewter]

GOOD

[dense ferry]

GOOD

[swift wharf]

alchemist npc L

[random pasture]

Add a stock market to terraria

[swift wharf]

do not

i will crash it

[dense ferry]

Make so the more you sell one specific kind of stuff it grows more devalued

Because like

[wide river]

Why would you buy boss bags anyway
Just cheat in the bags if you refuse to fight bosses to get more loot

[dense ferry]

Farming BoC and EoW is a thing because they drop infinite ore

And that's a platinum per kill

[tired haven]

True
With all the repercussions of one such as excessive supply-recessing demand so that players selling a shit ton of boss shortswords will not earn a fortune anymore

[unreal saffron]

Its literally inflation. You do the same amount of effort, and you get less money

[cobalt pewter]

see thing is

what's the basis for said reduction? I was actually mentioning something like that earlier but the shop system is so flawed there's no reasonable focal point to make that work

[hybrid steeple]

it doesnt feel as cheaty if you buy them

[dense ferry]

I will be honest with you

What's the effort in killing Brain of Cthulhu two tiers above?

[dense ferry]

Byeah, that's true

[cobalt pewter]

honestly considering external mods at all is a major argument L

especially shit like alchnpc

[tired haven]

click lmb, tap "2", hold lmb, tap "1", click lmb,...

the effort of boss grinding

[dense ferry]

Would probably need a really fucked up math equation

To actually make a market system

[golden sonnet]

I still stand by just making bosses drop 0 coins, just sell the drops, implementing a weird exponential system just seems high effort and confusing

[cobalt pewter]

that's a good idea too

make money scarce

basically

[dense ferry]

Debatable

[tired haven]

Well, that much I could agree with
No need to make it overcomplicated
It could even be a mild compromise of 1st boss kill giving coins and then no others

[dense ferry]

But I think you should at least get the money from the first kill yeah

[swift wharf]

the issue at hand is boss farming too good

[cobalt pewter]

when the boss money is solved

[swift wharf]

you already can get money from the drops so like

[cobalt pewter]

you have boss drops

which still sells for

good value

[swift wharf]

just remove all moni from boss

[cobalt pewter]

(unless you make all of them sell for 1 copper )

[swift wharf]

yea

[dense ferry]

There is the problem of

Some Bosses still being TOO GOOD

Like the aforementioned BoC and EoW

[tired haven]

Well, evil bosses will remain milk machines, yeah

[swift wharf]

remove crimtane/demonite sell value

[tired haven]

In vanilla they aren't because their summon item is very inconvenient to get en masse
So you get a burst of cash by farming out orbs/hearts and no more

[cobalt pewter]

hear me out

BoC and EoW no longer drop crimtane and demonite

instead

......

remove them

remove the bosses

[dense ferry]

UNLESS you become funny and make so defeating them doesn't drop ore anymore but actually spawn it in bigger quantities

[swift wharf]

TRUE actually

[golden sonnet]

Omg, spawning ore on kill would actually be cool

[swift wharf]

actually yeah the problem with boc farming is boc is being easy to farm

[dense ferry]

And make Scales and Tissues obtained elsewhere

[golden sonnet]

Give a reason to explore evil biomes

[dense ferry]

TRUE ACTUALLY

[swift wharf]

that is why we need to kill non consumable summons too

[small timber]

Make it so defeating evil bosses spawn a patch of evil biome randomly in the world to disincentivize farming them in mass

People will love this idea

[dense ferry]

I wrote that as a joke and it's actually an good idea

[dense ferry]

I mean the ore.

Not the biome.

[cobalt pewter]

evil biome needs a bit of a touch up though

particularly the corruption

(chasm

fuck you)

[tired haven]

What is the point of exploring the evil biome AFTER you killed the boss, again?

[dense ferry]

None, literally

[cobalt pewter]

evil boss v2

idk

[small timber]

The solution is to move evil2 to a postPlant boss

[hybrid steeple]

all the evil biomes suffer from
well
evil biome syndrome

[cobalt pewter]

not post plant, you insane?

post cultist instead

[hybrid steeple]

because they're (largely) not pre-generated

they feel incredibly lacking in content

[dense ferry]

Sadly this isn't happening, as much as I would love for them to be moved in progression

[hybrid steeple]

hallow and astral get this the most

[dense ferry]

Not Post Plant tho jeez

That's a bit much

[hybrid steeple]

but i think its also kind of a problem for crimson and corruption

[dense locust]

Genuinely, please no

[golden tulip]

https://tenor.com/view/suit-slideshow-man-in-suit-sitting-man-wearing-suit-sitting-slideshow-man-wearing-suit-meme-gif-25275395

the desert:

[random pasture]

Post plant on its way to have more bosses

[dense locust]

Qs tier at absolute max imo, that’s the last time evils are relevant anyway

[tired haven]

underground desert certainly feels more fleshed out by now

[hybrid steeple]

the desert has unique generation and things to actually do in it besides fighting bosses

[golden sonnet]

Why perennial in desert should be accepted

[golden tulip]

oh yea with 1.4 definitely

[hybrid steeple]

you dont do anything in the hallow and astral besides get the materials for boss summon and then fight boss

[golden tulip]

what am i missing here

[dense locust]

Oh boy, 5 bosses instead of 3

[dense ferry]

Hallow has the Hallowed Ore, at least

[hybrid steeple]

true

[dense ferry]

And Astral is being reworked eventually™️

[hybrid steeple]

is it
i thought that was just the underground

[dense ferry]

I think both will get some touch ups afaik

Underground way more, of course

[dense locust]

Biome mimics:

[unreal saffron]

Shit thats a good idea

[golden sonnet]

It was a previous suggestion, not my idea. I think it passed in voting? But the devs disagreed iirc

[unreal saffron]

L devs

Jk love u guys

[golden sonnet]

I still really like the idea though

[wide river]

Eh, it got denied when it got to the devs. I heard the devs have other plans for Perennial, so at best it would've gotten a 🔒 .

[hybrid steeple]

yeah

perennial is getting the silva ties and uelibloom is instead being made into proper profaned armor iirc

[golden sonnet]

I guess uelibloom spawning in the profaned biome in the future will make perennial less problematic

But I dislike it's current state

[hybrid steeple]

well. the silva ties that arent the actual silva armor

[unreal saffron]

Oh I forgot about profane biome lol

[dense locust]

?

Perennial is not what I would call “problematic”

[hybrid steeple]

its problematic because its one of like 5 plant ores

[golden sonnet]

It's the third plant ore who's only unique feature is "the jungle ore that doesn't spawn in the jungle", it lacks identity and the armor sets are incredibly niche but niche in an inconsistent way

[wide river]

The "problematic" part is because it's yet another thing spawned by killing Plantera

[golden sonnet]

And also the plantera bloat yeah

[dense locust]

Ah, yes, a massive list of 2 (two) things

[unreal saffron]

Speaking of plantera bloat, are the life shards or whatever they are called still in the game?

[golden sonnet]

Sadly

[quiet kernel]

Perennial should become pre hardmode jungle ore

[undone holly]

I feel like perennial's main issue is its just too close to chlorophyte isnt it?

[dense locust]

Nah

[quiet kernel]

(fr just retheme it or delete it)

[errant bobcat]

Yes

[dense locust]

Perennials main issue is it’s irrelevance

[undone holly]

I just mean its a plant based ore around the same teir, pre-plant for chloro, and post plant for perennials

[errant bobcat]

Somebody had a good idea of moving to desert and making it cactus themed

[undone holly]

oh yeah and that too

[errant bobcat]

I think it may have been xpc

[cosmic karma]

perennials main issue is that its only purpose is to make life alloys

[wide river]

Dungeon buff, Great Sand Shark, Pumpkin Moon and Frost Moon (Admittedly these are intended post-Golem), Perennial Ore, Solar Eclipse gets a buff, some enemies in the Abyss drop Ectoplasm...
I might be missing something but that's what I can think of off the top of my head

[dense locust]

First off moons don’t count

[golden sonnet]

They do currently imo, they have not yet been adjusted to be post golem

[quiet kernel]

Why not?

[undone holly]

why wouldnt they?

[quiet kernel]

Oh yea

[undone holly]

wait they're meant to be post-golem?

[quiet kernel]

Yea

Its goofy

[undone holly]

huh

[tired haven]

ectoplasm dropping from abyss is the same as dungeon buff 🤔

[dense locust]

Because they’re tied to a drop, they aren’t a direct result of plants death

[wide river]

Actually here's just everything according to wiki

Plus the vanilla stuff

[golden sonnet]

Vanilla devs stated moons are intended to be post golem but literally nobody knew it and everyone does it post plant. Calamity plans to buff the events iirc to make it actually feel post golem

[errant bobcat]

Wait no it was enchilada

[dense locust]

Yeah besides sand shark perennial and dungeon most of these are just stuff that happens after x boss anyway

Oh and eclipse

Ig

[golden sonnet]

This also means golem unlocks 3 events, but the alternative is plantera unlocking 3 events so

[undone holly]

I mean this is kinda like saying scoria doesnt count for a post-golem change

[quiet kernel]

Shrimply move them pre mech

[dense locust]

One dev stated it, and frankly I think balancing the events around post golem is a bad idea

Unless they’re literally locked behind golem, in which case you get complainers

[wide river]

Here's the thing
Duke Fishron can be fought pre-Mech, and it's balanced post-Golem. Does that make it a bad idea?

[quiet kernel]

Good point

[golden sonnet]

With events you can't fail though

(except OOA)

[undone holly]

you can not get far enough for drops though (as in, it is possible to not get far)

[orchid briar]

When Yharon is post lunar-events but balanced for post-DOG

[golden sonnet]

Me when mods change literally anything in vanilla (I cannot skip 2/3 of the pre plantera content)

[tired haven]

Well, pumpkin moon and frost moon have a similar fail condition (dps race fail)

9 minutes is a short time when you have poor damage to progress the waves

The only difference is that moons are a lot more lax on what drops you get from a fail

[wide river]

Yeah, at least you can still (probably) get something from Moons

[glass arch]

yeah the moons can still net you a lot of loot even on a fail

[fervent orbit]

just dont allow drops until wave 15

[wide river]

Doesn't Fargo's Soul Mod do that
Fargo's try not to make questionable balance choices challenge

[fervent orbit]

yes souls does that in emode

also in emode, if you die, the wave progress shortens

[tired haven]

Well, I guess due to various respawn timer buff mods, the penalty of being unable to progress the waves for 15 seconds is no longer a valid penalty

But still, that sounds kinda cringe

[wide river]

Eternity Mode makes a lot of interesting decisions
Some of which are justified, like nerfing Star Cannon, but then there's like the 50 debuffs that almost everything inflicts

[tired haven]

Well, believe it or not, to some degree spamming debuffs is a based move because that's about the most dangerous thing for facetankers
(although having seen the degree of debuffs in masomode, i doubt emode is anywhere near tolerable either)

[drowsy plank]

move evil2 to mech tier no balls

[worthy lintel]

no suggestions today...

[bright crag]

Make evil-2 post-ML fr

(Unfortunately, kinda hard to move evil-2 now)
(Could move other bosses like Crabulon and Deerclops, though)

I hope that evil-1 becomes distinct from evil-2 at least in difficulty and dramatic effect

[drowsy plank]

why would it be hard to move evil-2 anyway

[drowsy plank]

the only thing i could guess is because of lore but i can't imagine there's any lore for hive mind and perf that couldn't just also be moved to eow and boc

[bright crag]

Aerialite placement:

(And lore ties)

[drowsy plank]

yes that's what im saying, is there any reason aerialite couldnt just be unlocked by evil1?

[bright crag]

Can't move Aerialite, and can't separate Aerialite from evil-2
Respectively

[bright crag]

There's a lore reason

[drowsy plank]

oh i guess whatever lore was written was pretty deep huh

[bright crag]

(Not public)

It's not deep, just specific

[stone bloom]

Could you move something between evil 1 and 2

looks at slime god

[drowsy plank]

no

that doesnt even make sense

and god we dont need MORE evil themed stuff at that tier

two evil bosses is already problematic enough

i tried to get crab and deer moved between them but it never went anywhere

[tired haven]

To move anything inbetween evil1 and evil2 you'd have to make evil2 somewhere on sg tier

otherwise they'd be just alternatives with qb/skeletron/deerclops (kinda like they are now)

[stone bloom]

Fair ig its nice enough just blitzing through thag point of progression

[bright crag]

Statigel:

Also, it's a God
It's weak enough as it is :p

[jagged zealot]

Are suggestions of adding [non boss/mini-boss, nor enemy] creature suggestions allowed?

Or does that still fall under

- Any suggestions which will take an extreme amount of time, effort, and long-term commitment to execute

as well as "not adding something for the sake of adding" rule that guards against it?

[wide river]

If you just suggest for a critter or normal enemy to be added, I think you'll be fine
Similarly to most suggestions, you'll need to have strong enough reasoning for it, and you'll need to persuade people why a specific enemy needs to be added

[fossil finch]

this sugg is so funny how to completely eradicate the usefulness of a drop's drop

like insane that conversion rate means youd never have to kill a demon eye again after mining a bit

[wide river]

#suggestions-posting message
A few points are to be made here.

1. Why would you need a recipe for Lenses?
2. There is almost no reasoning present in the suggestion
3. It's needlessly specific with how it's executed, what with giving a recipe and crafting station

[fossil finch]

like no other basic material drop has a recipe

thats so weird

[wide river]

Clearly we need to give Gel a recipe

That's the next logical step

Which is a garbage idea

[fossil finch]

a recipe for an item which was specifically made to be an enemy dropped material is just insane

[tired haven]

Give everything multiple recipes and become some sort of messed up minecraft tech pack for terraria

[fossil finch]

at least those weird minecraft packs usually have these weird as hell recipes catered to its own tweaked progression system and stuff

they dont just go "well you can craft this otherwise common and abundant material by a conversion rate so low it basically removes the original obtainment from the game"

its like if you could craft fucking rotten meat out of 2 dirt blocks

[jagged zealot]

Dang, all I can think of is lack of a variant of it despite other evils having a variant, and it would add more to the flora and fauna of that biome.

[wide river]

Let me write down an example suggestion for you, maybe you'll get some ideas from it

[jagged zealot]

Like, I was going to suggest they add an evil bunny & goldfish to make it consistent with the other "evils"

And a piece of me wants to do the unthinkable and request quest fish for the biomes that don't have quest fish

[glass arch]

the evil bunny and goldfish are locked to world evil iirc, as for quest fish that cant be too hard, right

[wide river]

The quest fish thing would be best for a separate suggestion, but the evil bunny and goldfish should be fine, so long as you give a good amount of reasoning

[glass arch]

i have no idea how hard it is but knowing vanilla code itd be hard

[fossil finch]

other mods have done quest fishes before

[wide river]

The only biome that's missing a quest fish is the Astral Infection, if the wiki is correct

[jagged zealot]

Again, IDK what reasoning to give for biome counter parts of astral. Most would hate seeing another evil bunny or goldfish last time I spoke to anyone about it

I just thought since it was guts like crim, the bunnies and fish would mutate

[swift wharf]

better immersion

astral enemies are pretty much "new"

the only astral infected enemy I can think of are the sharks

[jagged zealot]

I don't know if that would work

[swift wharf]

you'd see the biome ACTUALLY corrupting everything near it with astral infected critters that aren't astral critters

[jagged zealot]

or be allowed as a "good" reason

[glass arch]

the uh hadarians or w/e are vultures i think

[wide river]

Hadarians are kinda like Vultures, Stellar Culexes are like Pigrons, Astralachneas are like Wall Creepers, Astral Slimes are just Slimes, Aries are kinda like Derplings

It's not like there's no precedent for adding Astral versions of normal enemies

[glass arch]

weird looking dog

[swift wharf]

tbf they're all enemies

and maybe it is just me but the enemies don't really feel mutated or infected

[novel belfry]

maybe we need inbetweeners

[swift wharf]

we need better sprites

[jagged zealot]

Alright, going to suggest it; but knowing the player base and the fact a portion are lazy and HATE more enemies to fight that ARE NOT bosses, nor drop a QoL material, they are probably going to be against it or not get many votes

[novel belfry]

like, vultures that are halfway there to hadarians, and culexes that are partially pigrons

these would probably be less dangerous than their full transformed counterparts

but they would be much more common

[swift wharf]

you could just make them look more like what they're meant to be

[stable kiln]

did i miss something or did people just forget to flag this?

[swift wharf]

OH YEAH

[wide river]

You don't even have to say that it's an enemy, you could just suggest that they be a critter
Astral Infection does kinda need more critters, what with one of them being a vanilla critter and the other being just a Firefly but Astral

[stable kiln]

rare eciipse L...

[novel belfry]

and their presence would actually decrease as you progress through the game, leading to full astral enemies becoming much more common

[swift wharf]

i didn't even check the channel

[novel belfry]

LMAO, we both exclaimed it and we're called Done and Overdone

[swift wharf]

it's so over

[jagged zealot]

There is ONE thing I wish vanilla or cal would add, and that's evil versions of squirrels. Solely because squirrels have everything like bunnies except for blighted versions and bomb version.

[wide river]

Then there we go! We've found the area where a new critter would fit!
Astral Infection gets a new critter, and Squirrels get a new variant, it's perfect!

[jagged zealot]

What?

I am so confused

[novel belfry]

i know that calval added the violemurs, which are a nice touch, but i would like to see a squirrel thats also just a fully astralized critter

[golden sonnet]

Smh, enchanted nightcrawlers exist

[charred fossil]

what does ! mean in the reactions to my suggestion>

[swift wharf]

way too specific, lacks any real reasoning

[wide river]

Oh sorry, I must not have made it very clear.
You mentioned how Squirrels don't have an evil variant, and it was previously brought up that Astral Infection doesn't have many critters at the moment. I drew a connection that we could fill both gaps by adding an Astral Squirrel, or something of the sort

[charred fossil]

changed it

[swift wharf]

lenses are not

hard to get

[charred fossil]

i got like -1 eyes

[swift wharf]

you can like use a zerg potion

during a blood moon

[novel belfry]

vanilla critter that originally was crafted instead

[swift wharf]

replacing farming a common enemy that has a common drop with mining 10 sand is

not okay

[glass arch]

calvan has an astral squirrel thing i think

[wide river]

We'll certainly be finding out soon

[golden sonnet]

actually, glass requires 2 sand to make, so it would be 20 sand, checkmate

[glass arch]

that isnt any better

[swift wharf]

im sorry ill remove done's exclaim

[golden sonnet]

Lmao

[random pasture]

Also like, how many things actually need lenses?

Eye summons are non consumable

[wide river]

Again, I must say
Should Gel have a crafting recipe, by the suggestion's logic? Gel requires the player to grind to get a substantial amount of it, or just get torches from chests, so by the logic of the suggestion we need to give it a crafting recipe too

[random pasture]

So you dont need that many

[glass arch]

5 things in cal

[swift wharf]

4

mech eye is kinda vanilla

[random pasture]

Thats pretty much nothing really

[wide river]

8 things, then? That's really not worth a recipe then

[swift wharf]

just made on a regular anvil instead

[glass arch]

well yeah

[glass arch]

def not

[swift wharf]

a recipe for a drop for one of the most common enemies...

[glass arch]

even if there were more you can just go into the desert with like 10 bombs and boom 300 lenses

[random pasture]

Also lenses are not a rare drop

33.33%

[wide river]

Just stand outside at night and then boom you have Lenses

[random pasture]

So a common drop from a common enemy that makes a grand total of 8 things in the entire game across pre HM and HM

[swift wharf]

you need

<20 lenses

[glass arch]

5 of which are pre hardmode

[swift wharf]

in an entire playthrough

less than 20

i mean

[fervent orbit]

the summons are non consumable
optic staff and quiver only requires 2 and 5, you should already have plenty spare by then
archery potion is for a specific subclass that you prob wont be making often + blood orb crafting and is also sold
nazar is slightly costly but still lower than sus eye + has other obtainment methods

[swift wharf]

yea

[wide river]

Provided of course you don't get the items that they craft during your own playthrough

[swift wharf]

that is correct

[golden sonnet]

Archery is sold as well

[fervent orbit]

added

[swift wharf]

you COULD mention black lenses but they're used in 2 non vanity things

mirage mirror and optic staff

[fervent orbit]

@charred fossil i dont see much point for this suggestion

[swift wharf]

so you only need ONE or NO black lens

because those two items are class specific

black lenses are useless for pretty much 3 classes

[glass arch]

plus those only need one or 2 black lenses each

[fervent orbit]

black lens alr has crafting recipe

[random pasture]

If eye summons were still consumable then maybe? But even then like eh?

[fervent orbit]

lens and black dye

[glass arch]

useless for 4

[wide river]

Unless of course someone is multiclassing
but why would you multiclass as a Rogue/Summoner

[swift wharf]

yea i mentioned black lenses because they use regular lenses

and this is implying that the player will use those items at their progression point

[fervent orbit]

oh yea

its still only +1 lens for said recipes

[swift wharf]

(mirage mirror users rise up (there are none)

[jagged zealot]

Oh, but then that would mean we also need a squirrel for the others. And it would have to behave hostile like rabbits if it is going to be a consistent parallel to bunny. And it seems like Cal doesn't touch vanilla stuff all too often.

[jagged zealot]

Nope, it's a lemurr, as in king juilian animal lemurr

[wide river]

I see your point, but we don't necessarily need parity between Crimson, Corruption, and the Astral Infection
Corruption has worm enemies, while Crimson and Astral Infection do not, for an example
(Not counting bosses because otherwise this is an invalid point)

[jagged zealot]

but they all got the bunnies, except hallow which I know a few mods that change that, and vanilla may change that too when it gets brought up. Most evil biomes keep converted critters effected by biome blights to have a 1 to 1 parrel.

Speaking of which...

penguin needs astral version too

astral is lacking a LOT of converted vanilla enemies imo

and needs more critters

like, maybe 2 original at least?

and not a vanilla one

that's cheating imo

[wide river]

Then let's go with this: A suggestion to add more Astral critters in general

[jagged zealot]

aight. But also astral enemy counter parts

maybe something like..

"Add more astral critters, and astral enemy counter parts to a 1 to 1 of vanilla evil biomes"

??

reason: emersion & consistency?

[wide river]

I think if we went with something like...
"Flesh out the Astral Infection's enemies, and add more Astral critters"
...it might be fine like that. I'll write up a prototype, and you can tell me if it looks good

[swift wharf]

honestly think that the astral suggestion needs to be remade from the start but that idea breaks a lot of donts 😈

[wide river]

Maybe it'll get something like an "Already planned" reaction, or maybe it won't. The only way to see is to make a proper one.
My guess is that the enemy part might be a bit too high effort, but the critter part will likely be fine

[random pasture]

I wonder if I could get something through if I resubbed it now.

It died in voting 11 months ago

[wide river]

I mean, there's not that many suggestions in voting right now, I think you'll be fine

[random pasture]

"Not that many"

They never get deleted though

[wide river]

I meant more of the recent batch, but you're right

[random pasture]

Eh let me double check if it is still the case and I'll resub it

[jagged zealot]

wdym?

[swift wharf]

like making the entire biome more "organic" and mutated and melting

weird alien disease corrupting everything around it and turning it into a grotesque landscape of an assimilated monstrosity

[wide river]

We may need to wait for "Ye olde Astral Underground rework™️ " to see if something like that happens

[stable kiln]

the biome has a ton of plans anyway, making suggestions wont make them come out sooner

thats all i'll say about suggesting things like that

it'll take a While either way

[wide river]

Ok, good to know 👍
I'll probably just make a quick critter suggestion and leave it at that, I won't push my luck

[bright crag]

Agreed

[wide river]

Right, I might not suggest this, since Astral has plans already, but I just wanted to get a quick bit of feedback on this in case I decide to suggest it

Add more Astral critters

The Astral Infection is currently lacking in unique critters, what with one of the two that it has being a vanilla enemy, and the other being similar to a Firefly. I think that the Astral Infection could do well with having more unique critters, as it's one of the more major biomes that the player will encounter in their journey. For example, there could be an Astral version of Bunnies, seeing as the Evil biomes have one too. Alternatively, there could simply be some more aesthetic critters, similarly to the Twinkler that the biome currently has. Adding some more critters to the Astral Infection would really allow for it to be less of "everything is trying to kill you", and have some calm in the storm, so to speak.

[jagged zealot]

How do you pull of that "tm" small bit?

[wide river]

: tm :

But without the spaces in between

[jagged zealot]

so, like this?

Calamitymod:©:

™️

wait

why did it only work for tm?

[wide river]

I don't think it works with copyright symbols, to my knowledge

[jagged zealot]

oh

©️

Huh, so I did it wrong. idk why I can't just use the symbol.

but at least I now know how to say "Calamitymod ©️"

shame it doesn't have the small version like tm

[fervent orbit]

you can do : copyright:

©️

[undone holly]

what about the astral squirrel with the name that I’m forgetting?

oh

it got removed didnt it

[wide river]

I don't know what you're talking about, so I couldn't tell you if it's removed or not

[glass arch]

thats calvan

[undone holly]

there was a squirrel like critter in earlier versions of the mod I'm pretty sure

[fervent orbit]

well theres no histroy section on the wiki for critters so i guess not

[hollow shell]

@placid vine You can edit your messages in #suggestions-posting , you don't need to delete and repost them

[placid vine]

excues me

[hollow shell]

But uhh
Balance suggestions should go to our dedicated thread, #1042197406776827914

[placid vine]

excuse me

[hollow shell]

It's alright

[placid vine]

sorry, I didn't send my message on purpose, it's not finished

ok thank you

[hollow shell]

👍

[undone holly]

tbh I might have just dreamed it up

[crude geode]

Yo-yos when they’re literally made to sell toys

[ashen warren]

[drowsy plank]

how about we just kill the water bolt impersonator

[hollow shell]

May wanna mention that Cnidaria are jellyfish for anybody unaware

[north oracle]

remove cnidrion

[ripe owl]

They aren't jellyfishes necessary

Some of them look like underwater trees

[hollow shell]

They are indeed also sea anemones and corals

You can list those too

Point is they aren't seahorses

[wide river]

If no one knows what Cnidaria actually are, people won't be able to draw an accurate comparison between Cnidrion and Cnidaria, so noting that in the suggestion would be best, yes

[hollow shell]

Seahorses are Hippocampus (or Syngnathidae if you go a level higher)

[drowsy plank]

i cant believe we're going to destroy the epic seahorse scrutiny lore this is so sad gamers

[ripe owl]

Expanded on it

[fervent orbit]

synagathidae sounds much cooler (and the much more impossible name to pronounce) than cnidaria

[wide river]

(Not necessary to fix, but the suggestion refers to a weapon called Cnidaria, but the weapon is called Cnidarian)

[ripe owl]

Whoops

[fervent orbit]

minor spelling mistake

point disproven

[ripe owl]

Man, don't do me this dirty

[hollow shell]

Much better sugg Thank you

[wide river]

That's the last thing of note, at least for me. Suggestion looks good otherwise

[ripe owl]

Idk why I've decided to talk about it now, I was just randomly watching videos about Leon the lobster and it finally hit me like a truck to mention the weirdness of the mob's name

[wide river]

#suggestions-posting message
Imma be honest this is a #1042197406776827914 thing

[ripe owl]

Also "access" not "asses"

[small timber]

Terrarian is ok strong, the 3 post-provi one except solar flare is garbage (even solar flare is not great), obliterator is garbage, oracle is amazing (hard to use on scal, demolish exo)

[wide river]

The dps output of these yoyos can be competitive when tested in comparison to other weapons on a normal dummy at a comfortable range.
This is also just not good reasoning, using dummies as part of the reason

[small timber]

Yeah there is a reason dummy is treated as inaccurate

Especially on bosses like polterghast that for some reason have 90 defense on P1 and 50% DR in P3

[wide river]

Also the fact that it seems like it's going to be a two part suggestion just doesn't feel right at all

[grizzled dome]

"assess" is what CorperalKoral was probably going for

[ripe owl]

Maybe

Hey @ashen warren could you stop cooking for a second and come here?

Pretty please? 🥺

[fervent orbit]

this is a #1042197406776827914 moment

also a suggestion shouldnt be over thhe discord message limit

[ripe owl]

He's writing the second part

[fervent orbit]

@ashen warren

watch till he realises theres a message timer

[ripe owl]

Probably sitting on his PC, focused on keyboard, with no headphones on

[fervent orbit]

man really waited 10 minutes to post

[ripe owl]

True

Also his second post is longer than first and isn't that necessary, honestly

[ashen warren]

lol

im done

[errant bobcat]

Also this has been suggested multiple times recently

[frosty trellis]

Yeah go to #1042197406776827914

[ripe owl]

Now delete all of your shizz and discuss it in there ^

[ashen warren]

meh

alr

[frosty trellis]

(Also we are aware every yoyo but Oracle and terrarian are Not Good)

[ripe owl]

Or leave it for mods to mark the posts

[errant bobcat]

People keep suggesting a extra yo-yo or yo-yo flesh out post prov

[ashen warren]

thx lads

[ripe owl]

No problem pal

[ashen warren]

i might put it back just not to give it a proper place

in a non-chat channel yk?

but i get it

[ripe owl]

Exactly, but that's an issue because you're not supposed to go yo-yos only, you're supposed to use everything you have

Locking yourself under some subclass is your fault

[errant bobcat]

True

[ashen warren]

it shouldn't restrict the fun inventive nature of the game

for ppl who like replayability, doing yoyo-playthroughs is not uncommon

[errant bobcat]

Suggs to make certain subclass only runs possible are against the rules tho

[ashen warren]

theres already enough to do it

that wasnt the point

[errant bobcat]

Ik

Post Prov probs does need some fleshing out tho yea for yoyo

Maybe upgrade to yoyo bag or something

[ashen warren]

im just gonna put it back and let it marinate

whats the worst that could happen

a yoyo nerf?

[ripe owl]

Mods exclaiming it

[errant bobcat]

I say keep first sugg, get rid of second

[ripe owl]

[errant bobcat]

First sugg was fine

[frosty trellis]

Let's not

[errant bobcat]

[ashen warren]

why second irrelevant 😦

[frosty trellis]

Because then the possibility of bag stacking due to dumb bugs becomes an issue

[errant bobcat]

Because that was just a rant

[ripe owl]

Yes

[ashen warren]

true.....

[frosty trellis]

(Also bag is kinda dumb as is)

[errant bobcat]

Fair

[ashen warren]

but what about the actual suggestions at the end?

[ripe owl]

And because suggestions are supposed to be a one coherent message, not two separate ones

[errant bobcat]

Literally doubling dps

[ripe owl]

In any case

"Buff this" or "nerf that" belong to Balance Suggestions thread in here

It's been mentioned multiple times

[ashen warren]

hm

[errant bobcat]

“Add a new weapon” as long as it is not a SIS is fine

[ashen warren]

i put it back

[ripe owl]

[ashen warren]

i can dream ok

[ripe owl]

You can

[ripe owl]

But read this again

[ashen warren]

😠

[ripe owl]

The only thing that can happen with your current suggestion is mods exclaiming your suggestion because it doesn't follow the guidelines

[ashen warren]

ohh

so since buff/nerf discussions are so plentiful theyre outlawed in that thread?

balance suggs

[ripe owl]

Yes

[ashen warren]

ill just leave it up until they exclaim it them so i know theyve seen it

[ripe owl]

I mean, you do you

[drowsy plank]

yeah this is a balance thing

also this just

flat out isn't true for post yharon when oracle is actually stupid good at times

lol

@ashen warren this is a big #1042197406776827914 thing and there really isn't any other way to address it

plus post-ML is notorious for shit tier yoyos

[glass arch]

calamity in general is notorious for shit tier yoyos

[fervent orbit]

love how people just arent mentioning that suggs shouldnt be over the course of 2 messages

[drowsy plank]

not true

sulphurous grabber and fault line exist

lacerator is the notoriously bad one

[fervent orbit]

quagmire is just better eoc (reminder that u have eoc until ml in vanilla)

[glass arch]

2 out of how many

[wide river]

Oh yeah this happened

[ripe owl]

We did mention it

It's not two messages anymore

[ashen warren]

[small timber]

Not really, most of pre-ML yoyos are unironically really good

PreHam struggle abit but that is also preHM, and the slime god yoyo should be good once they fixed the bug

It is only really just PostML yoyos being extreme shit for some reason (except terraria which is mid against everything but providence and oracle which is great)

(And yes I definitely know because I had to do an entire nohit of all bosses on yoyo only)

[gaunt tiger]

#suggestions-posting message
Counter argument: 🤓

But seriously, changing the name of one of calamity's most iconic mobs would be almost as idiotic as removing the most iconic boss mechanic

[hybrid steeple]

i

wouldnt call it one of the most iconic mobs

and i definitely wouldnt say renaming it is a bad choice

i mean. in terms of regular mobs i guess but no one thinks of cnidrion when they think of calamity

[quiet kernel]

imo thats not that valid counter point, since some bosses have been getting renames (I know the main name stayed the same of the bosses)

[hybrid steeple]

plus
what publicity is calamity getting from cnidrion even if it is one of the most recognizable mobs

when was the last time there was a youtube video about cnidrion

[hybrid steeple]

yeah
yharon being the "jungle dragon" was arguably the third most iconic thing in the mod (after the entirety of dog and scal)

[quiet kernel]

Obviously dokuros seahorse scruntiny

[fervent orbit]

scal having witch added in the middle

[hybrid steeple]

that one isnt nearly as big as yharon just straight up no longer being the jungle dragon

[stone bloom]

I forgot cnidrion existed since it doesnt do anything lmao

[hollow shell]

@keen vapor Do you mean Seraph Tracers?
Angel Treads are not the ones with incorporated wings

[keen vapor]

i mean like the angel treads having an alternate crafting line for just boots

as in you could craft them into either seraph tracers or just boots

[polar pine]

isn't that planned

[hollow shell]

"planned"

[keen vapor]

is it?

[polar pine]

dunno

i'm not a dev

[keen vapor]

🤷‍♂️

[hollow shell]

It's been on the table for like over a year

like a lotta.. ideas

[polar pine]

faster boots

[hollow shell]

But uh yeah this suggestion could be phrased a bit better

"Angel Treads and its upgrades have good mobility but, can easily be overtaken by almost any pair of wings"

Angel Treads do not have wings in them

[keen vapor]

oh wait

mb

ty for pointing that out

[hollow shell]

aight there

[small timber]

I dont see why does seraph tracer's existence make it so that "we need an alt boots line"

the reasoning should be focused on the fact that "at post-ML the only boots accessory is tracers which limits the usage of wings alongside it"

seraph tracer line being "weak" have nothing to do with "we need a new boots line" (inherently)

[hollow shell]

(and yes this is a very frequent suggestion but I have yet to add it to the Doc)

Byeah that's usually the reason provided.

If you want to equip any of the post-ML wings, your best option for boots to equip alongside them is from mid-Hardmode

and if you already crafted Angel into Seraph, you're fucked, and you gotta craft all the way back up to Angel from scratch

because Seraph and wings are mutually exclusive, on account of the fact that they are also wings

I'll add it to the doc now and we can make this one here be the final one

[keen vapor]

alr coolsies

i feel like i should put "or buff flight time" in the title

[hollow shell]

post-ml wing boot separation suggestions

#suggestions-voting message
#suggestions-voting message
#suggestions-voting message
#suggestions-voting message
#suggestions-voting message
#suggestions-voting message
#suggestions-voting message
#suggestions-voting message

related
#suggestions-voting message
#suggestions-voting message
#suggestions-voting message
#suggestions-voting message

(and probably a bunch more that I'm missing)

[ripe owl]

Wow that's uuuh a lot

[keen vapor]

gyat

[cobalt pewter]

thank fuck discord already changed how Discord message links look

[ripe owl]

True

[cobalt pewter]

otherwise that list will be a pain to see

[north oracle]

LMAO

[keen vapor]

in that case maybe i should delete my suggestion?

[hollow shell]

Nah nah

[keen vapor]

oh alr

[ripe owl]

No, leave it

[hollow shell]

Your suggestion can be the final one

[keen vapor]

[hollow shell]

and I'll add this to the Don'ts Doc in the pins as a "Frequently Suggested so please do not suggest this anymore" suggestion

[keen vapor]

alr

[ripe owl]

The other suggestions either didn't get enough votes or are in the dev server hell

And nobody likes it either way

[keen vapor]

[hollow shell]

btw this is a really old Don't and the tech regarding biome spread has changed significantly since it was added, especially after the release of 1.4
So, I'll remove it from the doc

and suggestions pertaining to it can just come in naturally

And this one might not be relevant anymore, now that tModLoader is inherently 64 bit, basically nobody is going to run out of memory and it'll already be in the music mod anyway (as in, that thing we separated out for people who don't have computer memory problems)

Not sure whether to remove it or not

[stone bloom]

Theres a mod that uses them in apropriate times already

(Except the one that plays with the credit kinda freaking out

[tired haven]

At this point I suspect the mod music would remain separate if only to not make people download extra 100MB every update (and risk butchering the big for tml standards download)

[hollow shell]

Yeah that's the main helpful thing about having it separate, actually

[grave zinc]

@ashen warren - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[**Remove Ancient Bone Dust (and preferably the Calcium Potion and Archaic Powder too) **]

It has been reviewed by the devs, and for one reason or another they decided it would be best not to implement it.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@golden sonnet - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Add a Visual Indicator for Providence's Holy Inferno]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@wide river - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Increase the Astral Pylon's spawn rate reduction or remove its NPC requirement]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@small timber - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[In the Anahita & Leviathan Fight, Make Killing Leviathan First Continue To Use The Leviathan's Theme]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@cold cosmos - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Increase the speed of Post-ML dashes]

It has been reviewed by the devs, and for one reason or another they decided it would be best not to implement it.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[golden tulip]

ancient bone dust L

[golden tulip]

who would have thought

[stone bloom]

Guess they have plans for the dust

[golden tulip]

if they had plans it would say they have plans

it straight up got rejected

[small timber]

I think if they removed the "also remove calcium potion and archaic powder" part it would had stood more chance

especially archaic powder

[eternal escarp]

actually no, the sugg wasnt accepted because of the Calcium and Archaic Powder removal

[golden tulip]

lao

[eternal escarp]

the material was thoroughly discussed about in conjunction with a very similar material, Demonic Bone Ash

current plan it to merge the two into 1 material
didnt decide which one stays, but yeah

[eternal escarp]

so
yeah if that part wasnt there itd have been accepted (to some extent)

[golden tulip]

owned

[oblique geyser]

Demonic bone ash should be the one that gets killed tbh imo iirc

[eternal escarp]

theres not much reasons for one over the other, so whichever stays prolly will come down to

"most of us like this one more"

[small timber]

rename it to demonic bone dust

[eternal escarp]

the only thing that plays a part is Calcium Potion's availability

(litterally, thats the only thing that changes)

[eternal escarp]

fun fact
Ancient Bone Dust is the reverse acronym of Demonic Bone Ash

[oblique geyser]

Initialism

[oblique geyser]

Which is why bone ash should die, bone dust is easier to get

[eternal escarp]

yeah that was the mention for bone dust

the only thing demonic bone ash has over it is
it looks kinda cooler

we'll see eventually probably

[quiet kernel]

Simply resprite the one that stays to be cooler

[eternal escarp]

it being a hell drop is cooler, that is
which is the contradiction to keeping calcium potion the same availability

but yeah thats like
really it, the materials dont have anything else to really argue one way or the other so the end result of which stays is prolly gonna be mostly arbitrary ngl

atleast afaik right now

[tired haven]

calcium potion should have died tbh ngl iirc tbf

[stable kiln]

ratio tbh..

calcium pot supremacy

[tired haven]

supremacy over what? an outclassed accessory?

[north oracle]

any class that uses aerospec literally uses calcium for 1 boss

[golden tulip]

ok but no need to waste an accessory slot if you can just use a potion

[crude geode]

"waste of an accessory slot" when I show them cloud in a bottle

byeah calcium pot is so funny

[golden tulip]

so youre telling me a gravity potion is outclassed by gravity globe ?

[crude geode]

yes exactly

[golden tulip]

ofc

[hearty obsidian]

dies

[small timber]

calcium potion exist for a very valid reason in that you used to not be able to use bundle of balloons without fall damage immunity or you are "hardlocked" into using a balloon + horseshoe instead of using it to craft bundle of balloon later

but yeah 1.4.4 or something bundle of balloon horseshoe

now it mostly is just "if you dont use balloon you can get fall immunity this way" but why will you ever not use at least a double jump in preHM

[crude geode]

If you have 3 jumps and a hook, and are still taking fall damage, that's kinda on the player

[ripe owl]

Okay guys look

[small timber]

turns out you can't play perfectly every single fight

[ripe owl]

The Horseshoe is a cavern drop for now

[small timber]

wow what a surprise

[north oracle]

you underestimate my power

[small timber]

sometimes you just use 3 jumps to dodge an attack therefore you take fall damage

[ripe owl]

In 1.4.4 the Lucky Horseshoe will become a sky drop

But you'll have a Bundle with a Horseshoe

[crude geode]

what

[ripe owl]

So, before you can access the Sky Islands, you have to use Calcium potions

[ripe owl]

What "what", you get it from the cavern/underground chests

And in 1.4.4 they reverted it back to Sky Islands

[small timber]

dont use craft lucky horseshoe from gold or something

[crude geode]

right

[ripe owl]

Oh yeah

[crude geode]

I totally forgot bc it was literally in one update and then they realized how weird it was

[ripe owl]

Well maybe they'll nerf the recipe so that it will need smth related to the sky islands like Sky Mill or Skyware Bricks or whatever

Anyway Calcium Potion will be good after the 1.4.4 port (real)

[ripe owl]

It's been since 1.4.1

So it's at least 3 updates

[crude geode]

fair

[tired haven]

I would gladly do that but I don't think I'd be understood by anyone else

(also to be completely fair it's near null impact anyway because any respectable calamity player rope rushes main planetoid, gets a shitton of weeds and one feather, then proceeds to grav pot loot all sky islands)

[crude geode]

but craaaaab, what if none of the sky islands have a horseshoe

[tired haven]

then small world ratio

[crude geode]

[stone bloom]

Tbh i didnt know people made the calcium potions

Theres so much fall damage negation even early on.

[cobalt pewter]

herb bag in planetoid lab is so weird

[ripe owl]

I mean where else

In the new Onyx lab?

That makes even less sense

[cobalt pewter]

just don't have it

[ripe owl]

Nooooooo this is so useful this should be a thing

[small timber]

if they want to remove herb bag from the planetoid lab then they need to give it a way for us to multiply seed, like option to turn a full herb back to seed

because the herb planetoid is currently one of the main thing preventing herb farming from being tedious by supplying a large amount of seed from the get go

[cobalt pewter]

ye

[hollow shell]

wait what
I didn't know about that bit

[stable kiln]

thats what im SAYING

calcium pots are definitely not a must have potions, but to me i like them because of how nice of insurances they are

and seeing as im a careless idiot i need that desparately

[ripe owl]

The More You Know

[hollow shell]

@vast zinc You shouldn't make suggestions about other suggestions
Each one is voted on and delivered individually so it makes things very confusing when one requires the context of another

[vast zinc]

A h

My bad

[random talon]

@vast zinc a good way to fix the suggestion is remove mentions of the other suggestion

[vast zinc]

Noted

Done

[ripe owl]

:wires:

That is certainly an interesting suggestion

[random talon]

@vast zinc now all you need to do is make the suggestion make sense. Proofread it just once

[fervent orbit]

and also format it

[vast zinc]

Mb

[gaunt tiger]

is it at all worth making a suggestion about dealing with the insane weapon bloat of this mod or no

[bright crag]

Honestly I find that to be extremely unnecessary and cheap, should probably change the recipe or remove it

[fossil finch]

it should be

[cobalt pewter]

horseshoe should be dropped from cnidrion

!!

(the closest thing to a horse in phm)

[fossil finch]

TRUE

[golden sonnet]

[fossil finch]

nidrion wework when,mm,,m,m,,..

[golden sonnet]

So true bestie

[tired haven]

i hate the fact that I kinda dig that

[golden sonnet]

Make cnidrion actually useful again

Isn't this just the same idea as limited summons?

This play style is already incentivized by having powerful summons that have a cap

[eternal escarp]

mentioning weapon bloat on the class with the least amount of weapons is daring i must say

[hollow shell]

No because it's the inverse solution

[gaunt tiger]

the problem being worse on other classes doesn't make it not a problem

[hollow shell]

the carrot rather than the stick

[gaunt tiger]

this ^^

phrase the exp penalty as the "rested exp bonus" and watch players enjoy the game more

as it were

and yeah I know weapon bloat is a mod-wide problem, but I don't have any clever ideas for other classes lol

[golden sonnet]

The best solution is to remove a lot of weapons imo, but that's just something really only the devs can decide

[gaunt tiger]

you can't suggest them to do that

or at least not if you want the mods to not chew you out

: )

[hollow shell]

This sugg is aight but I'd prefer if you just said outright something like "a bonus for having multiple minion types summoned at once"
instead of
the name you gave it, "Menagerie Bonus"

So that way people don't gotta read the whole sugg to get to the one sentence you have that explains what your term means

[lucid flare]

they did that once and everyone started crying that all those weapons they never used got removed

[hollow shell]

(also SIS fear)

[golden sonnet]

Like half the uelibloom weapons being useless, 3 yoyos post prov and none good on polter/DoG, etc

[eternal escarp]

theres still some weapons id like to see shot dead

but yeah

[golden sonnet]

Real and true (you don't understand, red nights edge with less damage was my favorite weapon)

[cobalt pewter]

kid named melee:

summoner is broken, but there are very little proven cases where it's "bloat"

when the entirety of melee is bloat: the class

[gaunt tiger]

fixed

[hollow shell]

Nice thank you

[gaunt tiger]

I'd say it's bloat when there are weapons that exist for the sole purpose of being used in a recipe for an actually useful weapon 1 tier later
(I am looking at you, necrosteocyte staff)

[cobalt pewter]

I didn't say bloat doesn't exist, it's just in a very small amount relative to the sample (the entire summoner class) compared to melee

[gaunt tiger]

oh for sure

[cobalt pewter]

but yeah grounded minions are funny

[gaunt tiger]

it's waaaay worse for other classes

I don't play other classes as much, so I am not exactly qualified to make a post about them tho

[golden sonnet]

You do know Necro is better than it's upgrade right? It kills WoF in under 20 seconds, I would not call that bad or it's upgrade "an actually useful weapon"

[gaunt tiger]

then the upgrade is bloat
qed

[golden sonnet]

True

Kill the basic copy paste nights edge for other classes

That I agree with

[gaunt tiger]

eh

it's more nuanced than that

there are more elegant solutions, for summoner at least

[eternal escarp]

i so agree...

make them something else.,.,

[gaunt tiger]

eye of night could be an upgrade to the EOC drop tho that is for sure

[tired haven]

~~funny part is that the different minions bonus already exists and it's called "not iframe capping your static/global iframe minions"

[eternal escarp]

trolled

[ripe owl]

Night's Edge clones for other classes when Lunarian Bow comes in

[gaunt tiger]

the what

speak plainly ascian

[golden sonnet]

Honestly, this feels fine, it doesn't use a dungeon bow, it isn't named "nights" so it just feels like another weapon

[tired haven]

A good half of minions have iframe conflicts with their own kind, so the optimal strategy is to summon less of them and more of other minions

[ripe owl]

Some minions have static immunity frames, i.e. they give their own i-frames
If you have multiple of them, they will trigger their own i-frames, thus they will all hit differently and consequently deal more DPS than as if you had only one of some minion

[gaunt tiger]

that's stupid

[ripe owl]

Yes but in its nature it tries to be a ranger Night's Edge
On practice it's not, and it's good

[ripe owl]

No, that's stupidly powerful

If you utilize it correctly, that is

[eternal escarp]

it does it in a slightly different way
unlike Terra weapons.........

[gaunt tiger]

it's the sort of stupid hidden mechanic that isn't interesting

[golden sonnet]

I see, I thought you were saying it was bad, I agree with you that it fails to be a "nights" weapon and is good because of it

[ripe owl]

Grrrr true 😔

[tired haven]

Well, we get to live with that one for the time being

[ripe owl]

No, I was actually saying that Lunarian Bow is greater than the Night's Edge clone weaoons

[golden sonnet]

Yeah, I see now and agree with that

[gaunt tiger]

well hopefully my suggestion helps lol

[ripe owl]

It's not hidden, it's just not well known
It's not stupid, again, it's stupidly powerful
It is in fact interesting. What would you prefer: two of the same minion that deal 20 damage every second or two different minions, with one dealing 20 damage each second and other dealing 20 damage every third of a second?

That's at least +60DPS

[gaunt tiger]

false dichotomy
I'd prefer weapons that aren't more or less powerful at invisible breakpoints that you need the wiki to know about

[small timber]

oh right I remember I tried to suggest the exact same idea before

[gaunt tiger]

common xpcqe W

[small timber]

but yeah tldr: you are already incentivize to use different minions (kind of), there is no need to incentivize it even more

sec let me find the old convo

[ripe owl]

You don't need wiki to understand that one minion attacks faster than the other and that they both deal damage on their own

[gaunt tiger]

????

[small timber]

I think from here to below

[gaunt tiger]

wtf u talking about

[ripe owl]

Yes, this is very much minmaxing, but hey, that's what we all live for

[ripe owl]

You tell me what you are talking

[gaunt tiger]

are you trying to tell me that it's a dps loss to have 3 of the same minion, for example

[small timber]

but yeah: more often or not, those "single minion" summoner weapons are already some of the strongest weapon in the game, eg: wither blossom staff, dragonblood disgorger, staff of mechworm, sirius etc

[ripe owl]

Yes, in some cases it is true

[small timber]

so you already are incentivize to mix minions, just not exactly "mix single slot minion" eg: mix resurrection butterfly with say tempest staff

[gaunt tiger]

ok and I'm saying that's a hidden mechanic and that's cringe

[ripe owl]

That's not a hidden mechanic

That's a not well known mechanic

[gaunt tiger]

does the game explicitly explain it

no

then it is a hidden mechanic

[ripe owl]

Okay but have you tried experimenting?

Let's take wings

[small timber]

are you sure that is a thing? the only case I remember is just iframe problem on some specific minion, rather than globally

[ripe owl]

They make you fly

[gaunt tiger]

no and why would I

[golden sonnet]

Shimmer:

[ripe owl]

Do they say that they make you take zero damage from falling?

[fossil finch]

to eb fair shimmer is just fuck around find out

[ripe owl]

No, which means that it's a hidden mechanic and that's cringe

[tired haven]

Both sides of the argument make me particularly upset

[gaunt tiger]

you are being deliberately obtuse

[ripe owl]

Because Shimmer is a liquid that's supposed to be experimented with

[ripe owl]

I am following your logic, or at least trying to

[gaunt tiger]

ok here's logic

[fossil finch]

random arbitrary whatever the fuck mechanic thats just impossible to discern to a normal player isnt shimmer

its jsut stupid

[ripe owl]

It's a Sandbox game, not everything should be told you, experiment from time to time

[gaunt tiger]

2+2=4

2+2+2+2=5

explain how this is logical

I'm so sorry
how didn't I figure that out

[fossil finch]

a player cannot know that certain minions get dps loss from existing more than once because of some random arbitrary set iframe system that is never even explored at all outside of 2 wiki pages

[ripe owl]

That's just straight up insulting

[gaunt tiger]

ye u right sorry that's uncalled for

[fossil finch]

specially in the case globalism doesnt apply and the player must therefore check on case by case basis

like unironically the shimmer comment is just a joke yeah but we think it exposes an issue thats not really understood a lot around here, theres a big differences between mechanics you are not told but can figure out and mechanics you arent told and cannot figure out at all without extensive testing and stuff or just straight up looking at the code or at a wiki

[golden sonnet]

Me when point blank damage and velocity based contact damage

[glass arch]

its like lifesteal cooldown except this time you cant put that in the cooldown display

[swift wharf]

i did not know about velocity based contact damage until one week ago

[fossil finch]

yes!!! yes!!! at least point black you know about because they slapped it into every tooltip but you still have no idea how it works

[swift wharf]

FUN

[fossil finch]

THE WIKI DID NOT HAVE IT UNTIL 2022

IT WAS ADDED IN RUST AND DUST

[swift wharf]

lMAO

[fossil finch]

WE HAD TO GO TO WIKI DISC AND POINT IT OUT

[ripe owl]

Okay, I see the point

[swift wharf]

fandom type obscure mechanics

[ripe owl]

Wait what does it do?

[fossil finch]

the best part is that we have legitimately no clue if its good or bad or if its working because you just dont notice it in a playthrough at all

damage variation is already pretty big

and it's boss only, so

[golden sonnet]

At least both of those things I've discussed before, and the devs talked about killing point blank entirety, and changing velocity based contact to have a max of 1.0, which makes both of those things so much better

[swift wharf]

make so bosses don't hit you like a truck when they're not moving fast

[glass arch]

bosses deal more contact damage the faster they move

[ripe owl]

[glass arch]

might also apply to projectiles but i dont know how that works

[ripe owl]

Guess that makes sense?

[golden sonnet]

^ this, but the max is 1.1X, meaning bosses can do like up to 80 more damage than listed on the wiki

[tired haven]

Afaik only contact is affected

[glass arch]

yeah basically ram every dash from a boss or get fucked

[gaunt tiger]

but you get my point ig

[ripe owl]

I mean it's called Velocity Based Contact Damage

And it usually means the mob contacting with you

[glass arch]

you never know with cal

[tired haven]

Btw there was an extensive discussion right there #1042197406776827914 message

About velocity damage

[ripe owl]

Grrrr true 😔

[golden sonnet]

Yeah, I mentioned that, making the max 1.0 is much easier to understand and I have no issues with the mechanic if the devs do implement that

[fossil finch]

anyways obscure arbitrary mechanics suck and are bad and imagine if fnaf in every game had extremely specific gameplay mechanics that are undiscernible to a normal player and require extensive wiki use to know about and understand fully

imagine if freddy fazbear could instantly kill you if you camera flipped exactly 3 times per hour transition when your computer clock is at 12 am

[ripe owl]

Mfw whole FNaF AI shabang can't be explained by looking at what you have in the game

[fossil finch]

we hate terraria balance with so much passion

[ripe owl]

The only thing you have is "number higher - feddy go faster"

[fossil finch]

ultimately thats the reason the whole minion iframe stuff exists to begin with just all these insane balance stuff piled again and again

[ripe owl]

[fossil finch]

to be fair thats really all you need

[ripe owl]

Aye fair

[fossil finch]

you know how the animatronic works already you are gonna assume bigger the number they just do what they do but Faster

[tired haven]

It exists because in 2011 only global iframes were a thing

And so the game was built on that principle and never really reviewed

[fossil finch]

yeah and that is Very not Positive

[tired haven]

It isn't, just saying that it's not terraria balance issue, it's just terraria issue

[fossil finch]

but applying a system that fixes it but also adds another step in arbitrary stuff that dwindles your effectiveness you will never know about is also kinda weird

[tired haven]

most weapons were balanced around that flawed mechanic in fact
Try to put local on bees and watch the hell unearth

[fossil finch]

its like Why

wemeanthosearevanillasoyea

[golden sonnet]

"because the game was built in 2011 and never really reviewed" explains like 2/3 of terraria's problems

[tired haven]

Well, yeah

[golden sonnet]

When you add spaghetti to a bowl for 10 years it gets hard to untangle

[fossil finch]

eitherway we hate terraria remove every calamity added mechanic

vanilla modifiers specifically

[golden sonnet]

So true

[fossil finch]

would unironically root for this if it didnt mean that wed be directly responsible for enslaving testers

[hollow ridge]

New sugg is a W

Change up the meta

[golden sonnet]

On the one hand it's cool because it incentives using variety, on the other hand having like 20 of one minion can be very fun, and resummoning differing amounts of 13 different summons every time you respawn would be actually fucking miserable

[cobalt pewter]

testsrs aren't real anyways

[hollow ridge]

Erm

[frosty trellis]

(I don't see the point of this bc if you summon mix you can break so many things already lol)

[hollow ridge]

Achtckually there is 🤓

Ig we will see how it gets on in the dev server

[wide river]

Summon mixing is pretty good, yeah
Especially when you have a couple of one-time summons, then you combine them with active summons

[gaunt tiger]

I didn't know about the secret mechanic when I posted it lol

I guess remove the secret i-frame stuff

[ripe owl]

What?

Why did you send a black image?

[golden sonnet]

True!

[gaunt tiger]

it says "beta tester"

oh

[ripe owl]

No, it doesn't say anything

[gaunt tiger]

whoosh

nvm

[ripe owl]

It's just black

[gaunt tiger]

lol

[dense ferry]

[ripe owl]

Boy do I love being silly sometimes

[vast zinc]

@gaunt tiger So it's kind of similar to the amulet of many minions mod

[gaunt tiger]

the what

oh sick there's a mod for this already?

[vast zinc]

Search "Amulet of many minions"

[gaunt tiger]

not quite what I'm looking for but ty

[glass arch]

why did you post john cena

[hollow ridge]

On the verge of posting the bing chilling copypasta

I won't tho

[hollow ridge]

Poof

[vast zinc]

Wdym

It does add a buff that boosts minion damage depending on how many different minions you have

[jagged zealot]

Calamity Vanity's lemurr, which isn't a squirrel

[undone holly]

ah

that makes sense

I just remembered a vaguely squirrel shape

[jagged zealot]

But seeing as now I am being told astral counter parts AREN'T going to be a thing, might as well go back to that suggestion

@hollow shell How many suggestions can we post a day?

[crude geode]

2

[jagged zealot]

@wide river Going to post your suggestion with a few edits. Think it is best way to tell. Going to include the fact that astral counter parts like ghoul should be a think. Will give credit.

[wide river]

No need to give credit, it was your idea in the first place, after all

[jagged zealot]

But you did most of the formatting

so give credit where it was due

[golden sonnet]

It adds unnecessary stuff to the suggestion, and when devs look at things they don't care or remember who suggested it

You saying thanks or giving credit here is all you need

[bright crag]

Ooohhh
So this sense of "counterparts"

[jagged zealot]

yeah?

[halcyon zealot]

I really like the sugg by @gaunt tiger
Perhaps it doesn't have to be an offense bonus, maybe a bonus to mobility / survival

People are sticky when it comes to offense changes

[gaunt tiger]

^^ anything > nothing

ty btw

[halcyon zealot]

[wide river]

Yea, not as in "Crimson is a counterpart to Corruption", but as in "Crimson and Corruption have Evil Bunnies so Astral should get one too as a counterpart" sorta thing

[jagged zealot]

Wut? that sounds like the same thing to me, but with different words?

[wide river]

I don't really know how to explain it, sorry. The point is the suggestion isn't asking for a biome counterpart to Astral, not much more I can say

[fervent orbit]

instead of being a difference its a similarity

[tired haven]

So a consistency

[halcyon zealot]

Yep

[stable kiln]

DoG's home dimension is still not in the mod, and wont be for a long time

[hybrid steeple]

when the devplans.png is

@pure lily that's planned. dog will be fought in the distortion for phase 2

[pure lily]

ah

i did not know that

ty

[hollow shell]

two
Also what the fuck is going on with your suggestion dude

[jagged zealot]

?

[hybrid steeple]

all the code blocks

[hollow shell]

Why is it formatted like this

[cobalt pewter]

me when code blocks

(it shouldn't be an issue for the bot yes?)

(but it is a bit bizarre)

[jagged zealot]

Mine doesn't show up as that.

[cobalt pewter]

the hell you're using

you should see this on Discord regardless of platform

[jagged zealot]

I see the slanted words, but mine don't show up as that specifically.

[jagged zealot]

Mine shows up more like this, with the grey for the slant being a tiny bit more lighter where it's to the point I can hardly see a difference.

IDK how the rest of you guys and your discords are that black colored, or why the slanted text is instead the lighter text.

[hollow shell]

Ok but why did you decide to do that

What is it conveying

[hybrid steeple]

either way its bad for readability