suggestions-discussion

[slender goblet]

no.

[lavish condor]

playstyle was a bad word for it.

[zenith hazel]

yea? nobody is demanding you to change it?

[twin ravine]

Bro the issue is just you didn’t place the damn power cel factories

[ripe owl]

Picking up factories and placing them is not a playstyle. It's a vital and crucial mechanic

[slender goblet]

that is the definition of bad game design

[twin ravine]

Wait and move on

[lavish condor]

I more meant hinting to the player they should place them early

[glass arch]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[bright crag]

^

[slender goblet]

that you dont know is vital

except your playstyle includes

the weapons

[ornate slate]

what

????

[bright crag]

I think maybe it just needs to be better communicated to the player

[lavish condor]

I think a better solution would be to communicate to the player that they are vital

[ornate slate]

yes this

[slender goblet]

Which forces your playstyle to switch to this

[bright crag]

That would be a better suggestion

[gaunt tiger]

so if it were a broken draedon drone (or something that serves a similar purpose), it would be a pet that you could equip, and at certain points in the game, it would pop up a little dialogue box that could explain a small amount of lore that was relevant to the current situation

eg, first time you walk into the jungle it might say something that hints about the plague stuff

just little lore hints that entice players to dig deeper, and maybe even guide new players towards their next objective

[ornate slate]

Make sure the player knows battery cells are essential

That's a better suggestion

[twin ravine]

Now I don’t touch draedon arsenal but I never had issues with having 5k power cells at the end because oh look I’ve placed them down near the start!

[lavish condor]

I might sugg that later

[ripe owl]

You can still play with this playstyle and
Have the factories around your base

[twin ravine]

You know about exo mechs

You know the requirements

[slender goblet]

good idea for a pet, but players could miss it

[glass arch]

which is an issue with how they're portrayed, not with how there are 5k required to decrypt the last shematic

[slender goblet]

but why?

[twin ravine]

This isn’t a thing about newer players if you’d already known

[gaunt tiger]

give it to new characters

[slender goblet]

PERSPECTIVE

OD

A

NEW PLAYER

[twin ravine]

You’re speaking for a demographic that you aren’t part of

[lavish condor]

Having things be missable on a first playthrough isn't necessarily bad

[twin ravine]

You already know about exos

You know the requirements

[slender goblet]

Good idea too, but some might not like it

[twin ravine]

It’s your fault you forgot

[lavish condor]

corruption and crimson as examples

[slender goblet]

of think its anoying

[glass arch]

so they can trash it

[ripe owl]

They find a lab
They ask about it
They get an answer

[gaunt tiger]

^ this

[amber moss]

When I was a new player I explored and found things out on my own

[jovial spire]

Ok what's going on here

[slender goblet]

which would give them what reason for the factories?

[bright crag]

Eh, I feel like that wouldn't work because there aren't any individual sources that would know a large portion of the lore
Only the Bestiary can drop info about anything in a similar fashion, as a magical book

[glass arch]

...what

[slender goblet]

Not everyone is in this discord

[amber moss]

The wiki then

[gaunt tiger]

well draedon knows right?

[bright crag]

Nope

[gaunt tiger]

hm

[slender goblet]

the pet would be great, for telling the player what to do. the argument is still about the factories

[bright crag]

Not nearly the entirety of the lore

[twin ravine]

Why are you speaking if this is everyone’s issue, your suggestion was to change 5k to be lower and yet somehow this is supposed to mean good things for new players?

[jovial spire]

Draedon doesn't even know about Xeroc

[twin ravine]

Idk man

[slender goblet]

yes it is

[ornate slate]

okay im gonna make a better suggestion

[slender goblet]

see it from their perspective

[glass arch]

the pet idea is
a lore mechanic
not something for gameplay

[gaunt tiger]

xeroc isn't in the logbooks tho

[bright crag]

Though I do have an idea for someone that could provide relatively small lore insights, with a fairly vast knowledge

[slender goblet]

then sorry for the misconception

[jovial spire]

I mean ideally the two should be intertwined at points

[gaunt tiger]

oooo, do tell

[bright crag]

Yeah, but like
The logbooks aren't the only lore

[jovial spire]

the funny thing is

[bright crag]

I can't, but Cei might be aware of what I mean

[slender goblet]

Ok, you know what? I just say what I mean with the new players a bit clearer

[jovial spire]

I don't know which person you're refering to

[slender goblet]

All new players

[jovial spire]

I can think of at least 3

[gaunt tiger]

the basic idea of "pet that gives out small lore tidbits more often than finding a logbook" I think would be HUGE for the average player

[glass arch]

my mind is so warped i read your 3 as :3

[slender goblet]

-You explore
-You find the lan
-power cells? Are they imprtant? maybe

• might store it for later (the factory)
  -5K

[ornate slate]

ok i made a better suggestion

any problems with mine?

[ripe owl]

Yep, exactly

[slender goblet]

??

[slender goblet]

you store them#

[ornate slate]

read suggestion posting

[slender goblet]

in a chest

[ripe owl]

Oh that

Well yeah

[slender goblet]

would be good

but

now that I think about it

[ripe owl]

But I mean, you can ask about them

On Reddit
On Discord
Hell, thr Forums work as well

[slender goblet]

why even is the power source not a part like all th others

[ornate slate]

there should be ingame indication

[twin ravine]

From their perspective if lacking incentive was the main issue the suggestion shouldn’t even be about the 5k decryption cost.
You’re projecting your own issue (of not having enough power cells by endgame) to be what everyone experiences as newer players. Your suggestion was to cut down from 5k and now you’re on about giving players incentive when clearly people were having issues with your suggestion in the first place.

[ornate slate]

just to make absolute sure

[slender goblet]

some might not want to get spoiled

[lavish condor]

Don't rely on external resources to communicate things to the player I think

[twin ravine]

Your issue was suggesting the 5k cut in the first place

[ornate slate]

this

[twin ravine]

If it was about incentivizing more maybe nobody would be arguing now

[ripe owl]

That's not too big of a spoiler

[slender goblet]

Making them seem more important isn't always an insentive to place them as soon as possible

you don't get any advantage till the endgame

[twin ravine]

You do

The weapons are not bad

[lavish condor]

The tooltip says they generate power cells

[glass arch]

the weapons are damn good at times, too

[twin ravine]

I don’t get why you’re so hellbent on them not being important because YOU don’t use them

[lavish condor]

A blind player who wants to find all the content will iprobably experiment

[slender goblet]

coming back to the "if you don#t forcce players into it, they might not want the weapons"

playstle choice might not include them

[lavish condor]

If a blind player doesn't explore/experiment enough to find this out, they willi probably miss other bosses too

[ornate slate]

stop using playstyle

[slender goblet]

exploration =/= placing random factories

[twin ravine]

Nobody forced anyone into it, but you’re the only one so far who’s not bat a single eye at the draedon arsenal

[slender goblet]

no

[twin ravine]

In this case it’s punishment for negligence

[ornate slate]

playstyle means nothing in this context

[twin ravine]

Complete negligence

[ornate slate]

weve told you several times

[bright crag]

^

[slender goblet]

I did, and thought it was trash

[twin ravine]

And yet you don’t have any power cell factories sitting around after trying them?

[slender goblet]

not everyone experiences it

but some might

and that's a fact

[twin ravine]

And yet you’re making it out to be some huge issue

[slender goblet]

it isnt

BUT

[ornate slate]

it isnt???

[slender goblet]

It only needs 5 sec to fix

[twin ravine]

There we go

[ornate slate]

why are you still arguing about it

[twin ravine]

It isn’t a big issue

We move on

Let’s go

[lavish condor]

@ornate slate perhaps you could explain the effects of the reliance of external sources, like the large amount of time you have to wait if you discover them late

[slender goblet]

No, set it in perspective to the time to fix

[ornate slate]

will do

[bright crag]

Then the issue isn't that the requirement is high, it's that people aren't always aware of the mechanics

[lavish condor]

Hey at least this discussion resulted in 2 somewhat better suggs

[bright crag]

That's the issue, not 5k power cells

[twin ravine]

^

[bright crag]

And I recommend that you focus on that instead

[gaunt tiger]

vetra, is my suggestion okay

[ornate slate]

I suggested about this.

Because THAT is the issue, not this

[slender goblet]

the only mechanic that is requiored is the exos

[ornate slate]

yes

its still required nonetheless

[slender goblet]

so tell people about them at the start?

[ornate slate]

exo mechs are pretty important lol

[slender goblet]

and that's why

I complain

[twin ravine]

That doesn’t make your suggestion to change the 5k any more valid though

[ornate slate]

well, just hint heavily that power cell factories have importance

[twin ravine]

It started because of the suggestion

[slender goblet]

straw man

I want to beat them, a important part of the game

cant

[ornate slate]

make sure that the player prioritizes picking it up

[slender goblet]

but HOW

without telling them

[ornate slate]

in game indicators

lol

[slender goblet]

the second last boss is needing this

[ornate slate]

thats not for you to come up with

[glass arch]

even if you knew about power cells being important for exos would you even try to get more early on

[ornate slate]

the devs will figure it out

[twin ravine]

Hey man it all started there, imagine if it was about giving more indicators for draedon stuff being more important

[slender goblet]

yes

[slender goblet]

but that's the problem, what "good" thing does the first schematic unlock

nothing

so you think

Huh, thats all trash

[glass arch]

tracking disk

[ornate slate]

what

[twin ravine]

Tracking disk, taser

[ornate slate]

💀

[twin ravine]

I cna think of a few

[glass arch]

star swallower containment unit

[slender goblet]

For every class, you might not know of the imprtance of the disks

[gaunt tiger]

say sike right now

those frogs can't do shit

[glass arch]

im not joking that shit is cracked on deerclops

[gaunt tiger]

hm

[glass arch]

if you want any proof of it doze has it on his summoner guide for deerclops

[gaunt tiger]

I did that like yesterday, they couldn't hit at all
maybe infernum ai differs

[slender goblet]

fact is, it's bad game design to punish the player with a wait

[twin ravine]

So what you’re gonna destroy the factories the moment you know they’re not good?

[slender goblet]

yes

[ornate slate]

why???

[glass arch]

everyone gets hit with the same time wall

[slender goblet]

They are ugly in my wooden base

[twin ravine]

From the perspective of new players theyw ant to try out shit

[ornate slate]

you gotta be trolling at this point

[twin ravine]

So true

[slender goblet]

time walls are bad game design in general

[twin ravine]

I think we’ve found it

[slender goblet]

argue otherwise

[slender goblet]

no

It's just fucking annoying

[glass arch]

most just have the ability to actually progress while waiting

[ornate slate]

we already collectively came to a conclusion but youre still arguing

[twin ravine]

Yeah, but you’re not forced to place power cells only after yharon no?

[slender goblet]

i don't have anything to progress

[twin ravine]

You’ve forgotten about it

[slender goblet]

you arent forced to do so earlier too no?

[ornate slate]

my conclusion personally is that there needs to be more indicator that power cell factories are very important, and that you are trolling

[twin ravine]

And now you have to make up for it because you forgot

[slender goblet]

and a new player would have knew

[bright crag]

The decryption process is required to reach the mechs
So you tell the players about that importance
Reducing the cost will only be a bandaid fix, when the issue is people not knowing about the importance of decryption

[slender goblet]

With a time wall

[glass arch]

which affects everyone

[twin ravine]

Yeah, because it’s your fault for coming to swift conclusions on game mechanics you don’t have much clue on

[slender goblet]

Exactly, and how??

How without spoiling

[twin ravine]

“Oh this weapon bad, this must mean the entire arsenals are bad, I should not touch this at all”

[glass arch]

its just not an issue if you play how the game is intended and place the power cell factories early on and can actually progress while waiting

[slender goblet]

You are so stupid. Time walls are bad

[drowsy plank]

i love waking up to 1000+ messages from a single suggestion

[gaunt tiger]

morning cog

[ripe owl]

Who doesn't

[slender goblet]

But I don't, because I have a playstlye that isnt yours

[bright crag]

With good wording, you can absolutely tell the players without spoiling the fight

[ornate slate]

ITS NOT A PLAYSTYLE 💀💀

[gaunt tiger]

hey is my suggestion okay, btw?

[ornate slate]

dude come on

you are just provoking us now

[glass arch]

this doesnt relate to playstyle for fucks sake you block of tungsten

[twin ravine]

I love the personal attack here, but back to the point you’re not forced into a time wall earlier on because the requirements are low, by the time you reach exos you’d already have enough

[bright crag]

I think so

[glass arch]

it is not a playstyle to place down 4 fucking tiles at the start of the game

[ornate slate]

what do you think of mine

[slender goblet]

good point, but how to do so without a player missing it? the first schematic?
It's in an pretty unimportant biome thats annoying to traverse early

[frosty trellis]

Yeah which is.... What you're supposed to do lol

You get the couple you'll ever need just from the space and sunken sea labs alone, so long as you place it before WOF, by the time it's time for Exos it's fine

[gaunt tiger]

thanks chief

[drowsy plank]

the pet idea is weird but there were already plans to integrate the lore into the game more and kill off lore items so i think it's fine

not to mention draetalk and the hopeful overhaul of NPC dialogue at some point

[twin ravine]

You’re projecting your own view that the sunken sea is unimportant to everyone

[random talon]

This whole argument is an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object

[slender goblet]

But it is a time wall if you miss it

[glass arch]

even if you do it before moon lord its fine

[slender goblet]

It has no big upgrades or real nosses

bosses+

[glass arch]

its always a wall even if you dont miss it

[gaunt tiger]

I eagerly await these updates 😄

[bright crag]

The Sunken Sea will be reworked
And well, avoiding the Sunken Sea is just... why?

[ornate slate]

how do people not realize theyre just plain wrong

[slender goblet]

TIME WALLS ARE BAD

[gaunt tiger]

also the sunken sea lab doesn't spawn sometimes

[slender goblet]

you dont argue for your point

[ornate slate]

we do though

[slender goblet]

that's cool

[ornate slate]

a lot

[drowsy plank]

dont you need a power cell factory to make the codebreaker in the first place

[frosty trellis]

The ONLY thing
And I mean
The ONLY thing
That I think Needs to change
Is the space lab being the first lab and sunken sea being the second

Because it's the place almost every new player is going to find first bc who doesn't grav pot for floating islands or w/e

[ornate slate]

but you arent listening to us

[slender goblet]

time walls are bad, agreeß

ß

?

[bright crag]

A Charging Station

[twin ravine]

You’re shifting arguments lol

[glass arch]

my point is its always a wall, not just when its inconvenient for you

[slender goblet]

no

[ornate slate]

what do you think of my suggestion? i tried to suggest what the problem actually was

[frosty trellis]

Especially since the stuff from the sunken sea labs are Aeralite crafts, and Aeralite is now in the sky

[slender goblet]

if it's always a wall

it is STILL BAD

[glass arch]

not really

[slender goblet]

because it is

a time wall

time wall is bad. Yes or No?

[twin ravine]

It’s a passive thing if only you’d, well you know, just set it and forget it

You don’t have to start waiting for it until yharon

[slender goblet]

dont avoid the question

[twin ravine]

Right?

[slender goblet]

yes or no

ONE

word

[swift wharf]

Hold on

Why are time walls bad again?

[twin ravine]

Yeah time walls are bad I agree

[slender goblet]

Exactly

[frosty trellis]

Isn't there a guy who beat SCal, Exos, BR and AEW in under 2:45:00?

It's not a time wall you're just placing them far too late my guy

[slender goblet]

.

[twin ravine]

Doesn’t make your point any better though

[ripe owl]

Cause you have to wait for no reason

[swift wharf]

Define no reason

In a game

[slender goblet]

I am

[swift wharf]

Where there are more things to do than killing bosses

[slender goblet]

and I shouldn't be able to miss them

[glass arch]

yeah somewhere around there

[slender goblet]

I DIDN'T THOUGH

thats

the poin

t

[bright crag]

It's a consistent time investment, it seems like a wall because you missed the entire thing for an entire playthrough
(Which is not intended and the actual problem is missing them)

[glass arch]

YOU WOULDNT IF YOU DIDNT COMPLETELY IGNORE DRAEDONS ARSENAL

[drowsy plank]

skeletron when you have to wait to fight him again

[ripe owl]

Well, in their sense
You did everything
You are left with nothing
And now you have to wait for 5K batteries to peoducey

[small timber]

why does codebreaker parts never use any battery again

[slender goblet]

exactly,you shouldnt be able to miss them

[swift wharf]

Then waiting is not the issue, the issue is that you missed it

[small timber]

at least the codebreaker base should use some amount of battery

[swift wharf]

Not the waiting part

[drowsy plank]

just go killl yharon again you're gonna need more souls anyway

[slender goblet]

5 min vs 5h

[swift wharf]

The waiting part is the consequence of missing it

[ripe owl]

That's what we were trying to convince to them

[frosty trellis]

Like, this is a really good argument on why it's not a time wall is just looking at Speedruns for the game and seeing that they get around it just fine and don't worry about it

And Speedruns are generally 7-99x faster than you're average pt

[twin ravine]

You know calamity is plenty anti-grindy already

[slender goblet]

and a time wall as consequence is bad

thats

the

point

[swift wharf]

If you JUST fix the time wall you don't fix the issue

[twin ravine]

Also 20 power cell factories takes 1 hour to get the cells ready no?

[drowsy plank]

it is only 1 hour they already proved you can get 8600 cells in just 80 minutes

[slender goblet]

yes you do

thats the issue

[ripe owl]

Place more than 1 factory
Problem solved in a secind

[slender goblet]

thats the problem

[glass arch]

no, the issue is missing the factories

[swift wharf]

[slender goblet]

if you do it early

[glass arch]

you have said this yourself

[slender goblet]

which you could miss

[timid kindle]

Im not sure where you get 5 hr, you do realize you can place multiple factories

[small timber]

this suggestion kind of just got sent into backlog hell huh

[swift wharf]

If you just fix the time wall you remove the point of exploring

[slender goblet]

in its current implementation it is yes

[slender goblet]

no you dont

[swift wharf]

You do

[glass arch]

the timewall is the symptom not the cause

[slender goblet]

still need the schematics

[frosty trellis]

You do yes

[twin ravine]

You know the time it takes for you to argue your case you’d have enough batteries if you had 20 factories from the 5 labs

Crazy right?

[slender goblet]

a symptom that shouldnt be there

[swift wharf]

You remove the consequence of missing it
You remove the idea of exploring

[frosty trellis]

^

[slender goblet]

Ok, yk what

[swift wharf]

Brother you don't treat a disease by just treating the sympton

[slender goblet]

wait for a sec

[ripe owl]

What a sick joke!

[drowsy plank]

did you know you can zerg in a lab and capture the critters to get cells faster

[slender goblet]

so there is a desease

[drowsy plank]

this isnt even a problem

[ripe owl]

So true

[random talon]

exactly

[twin ravine]

No not the hypothetically speaking again

[gaunt tiger]

backlog hell will be the death of this channel

[hybrid steeple]

is this still fucking going

[swift wharf]

Would you rather kill the bacteria directly or just take pain medication

[drowsy plank]

we have already covered the problem

[swift wharf]

I love having to explain common sense

[random talon]

what a disaster discussion!

[drowsy plank]

so true

[hybrid steeple]

backlog my behated

[swift wharf]

"Add a way to circumvent a certain bug instead of fixing the bug" moment

[hybrid steeple]

my most recent sugg was suggested before and its in backlog hell

[slender goblet]

so then how about that, youst answer with yes and no to this list

1. time walls are bad
2. it is POSSIBLE that you miss the factories
3. the only incentive a new player has for the factories are weapons
4. they might not like the weapons and MIGHT ignore it
5. a time wall hits if you don't engage wit it

[glass arch]

at times you have to do that because you actually cant fix the bug

[frosty trellis]

Sorry but the time wall is:
A: Not that bad (It really doesn't take long)
B: Encourages exploration early to get said factories
C: Is really not a good point because you're supposed to explore and get all the schematics done during certain points of the PT as they are encrypted and provide useful weaponry and such. It's supposed to be something you do as you go and not something you just do once it's time to fight Exos. It removes the uniqueness of the feature and if you do it later that is on you

[swift wharf]

Those are the times you amputate your arm yes

[gaunt tiger]

the only cell this makes me want to interact with
is to lick a 9-volt cell

[glass arch]

1. no
2. yes
3. no
4. thats a lot of hypotheticals there
5. yes

[gaunt tiger]

🔋

[hybrid steeple]

oh also @gaunt tiger that is very much planned, it's just that lore items were a pre-existing system that could be easily added on for the initial new lore reveal

[swift wharf]

oh yeah lore items are DYING

[hybrid steeple]

the lore items will be killed at some point

[swift wharf]

⚡

[slender goblet]

so a time wall is good?

[ripe owl]

Yes
No
Yes
They might not like the weapons, but there are always more weapons further down the road
Yes

[gaunt tiger]

incredibly rare velvet W 😔

[slender goblet]

and add lore to the one point with the weapons

[drowsy plank]

minecraft has time walls called smelting

[glass arch]

every game has inevitable timewalls

[ripe owl]

Lore: Dradong create wepon, YiHaram use wepon for war

Simple at that

[swift wharf]

me when I have to wait for something to get done

[ornate slate]

we already reached a resolution, i put down the suggestion that was what the actual problem is

just ignore at this point

[ripe owl]

Man I HATE waiting in my game full of things to do!

[slender goblet]

Do thepoint 2: It is NOT possible for them to miss the factorys as important???
Point 4: could they be turned off of the option do to bad first schematic unlocks

[slender goblet]

I dont have anything to do

[frosty trellis]

I'm not saying it's good

But it's supposed to be something you do over the course of a pt already

So if you do something late because you couldn't be bothered to do it earlier that's on you. You still take the time and do the thing.

You can just spread it across your pt as intended or suffer the consequences of doing it late and ignoring the feature.

Again, this is literally a you problem

[drowsy plank]

yeah im gonna say yall can get your last words in but im rounding this up it's been going for nearly 3 hours

[random talon]

then find something to do

[slender goblet]

But it CAN hit as a time wall

and the question was

isa t ime wall bad

not something else

So if you do something late because you couldn't be bothered to do it earlier that's on you.

No

[glass arch]

if you completely ignore the feature until you physically cannot anymore, yes

[random talon]

damn it has??

[ripe owl]

Build
Grind
Build
Just place more factories
Build
Kill a couple of already defeated bosses, just for fun
Build
Test new weapons
Build, at last

You have so many possibilities

And yet you chose to whine on the internet

[slender goblet]

exactly, and the feature might seem unimportant

[ripe owl]

Hmm, have you tried asking on the internet perchance?

[frosty trellis]

And that's you're fault if you ignore that aspect of the game until literally the last moment

Again, it's supposed to be progressive and not immediate. That's why there's weapons at every tier to craft with it

You don't want to do the grind early? Suffer the fucking consequences and live with your actions

[ripe owl]

[slender goblet]

I cant grind for anything
I don't wanna build (playstyle choices ik)

I dont have more

[glass arch]

anyways this is going nowhere, i am actively losing braincells here, goodbye

[ripe owl]

There are many more choices than that

[frosty trellis]

Yeah I should go as well. I've made my point

[ornate slate]

not a solution, you shouldnt rely on external sources to communicate a mechanic is essential

[random talon]

it's when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object

[slender goblet]

"And that's you're fault if you ignore that aspect of the game"
No, the player should never be ABLE to miss something that important

[random talon]

you knew it was important

yet you ignored it

[ripe owl]

And they won't simply because it's scattered all over the world

[zenith hazel]

and it shouldn't be considering it's very hard to miss?

[random talon]

how is that a mod problem??

[ornate slate]

but FOR NOW you should have to

[slender goblet]

so your game is unplayable without asking EVERYTHING on the internet?

Wow

[small timber]

I dont want to dump more oil into the fire, but I do think in this case this "time wall" is indeed, have nothing to do with "getting rid of exploration"

you need to explore in the first place in order to obtain the schematics, so you are already doing the exploration before you even get to the point where you know you will even need 5000 batteries;

the problem here is 3 fold:

1. unless you are already faimiliar with calamity content, you do not know the importance of the labs, most people will just assume it is "yet another structure"
2. codebreaker having no indication of its existence other than "it is on the wiki" and "install recipe browser and remember to throw charging station into it", heck I even frequently have to wiki the further codebreaker parts for a while since it is so unintuitive
3. currently nothing make charging station/battery factory stand out from everything else, in most case it is basically just a background object to most player; no "you need charging station to get code breaker in the first place" do not work because chances are the player will just miss both codebreaker and charging station together

but yeah tldr: 5000 battery cost and how unintuitive for new player to know its importance in the first place is a problem, and lowering cost etc have nothing to do with "delete exploration from the game"

HOWEVER, I do think lowering the cost is not really a good solution, just like, give battery factory an upgrade that produce battery at a faster rate and/or something discovered from schematics decrypt that help with producing battery will work without ever "getting rid of the purpose of exploration" as exploration is mandatory to get them in the first place

[slender goblet]

cool

[drowsy plank]

@slender goblet Stop discussing this. If you need more cells you can just go back to the lab and catch repair units under a zerg potion and scrap them to get cells proactively while you wait for the charging stations to make more. All of your issues have already been covered by other suggestions and you aren't making any new points. All you're doing at this point is being inflammatory and I'm tempted to just give you a warn if you continue. This isn't going to un-flag youe suggestion because you have made 0 changes to it this entire time.

And to everuone else; don't encourage him.

[ornate slate]

now mikoto youre just gonna have to wait

sorry!

im done bye

[slender goblet]

WHY DIDN'T I GET TOLD THAT'S A THIGN

[drowsy plank]

you did

multiple times

[slender goblet]

TELL THAT TO THE PLAYER

[slender goblet]

ingame

in game

not here

[drowsy plank]

shade said it to you

[ripe owl]

In-game you have factories

[slender goblet]

IN

GAME

[drowsy plank]

Mikoto.

Let me speak

And stop being so aggressive

[slender goblet]

not my intention

[random talon]

imma be quiet

[ornate slate]

you know what, i think the best way is to mention in the arsenal labs that draedon made a mechanical trio past the power the mech trio in hardmode, which the player pretty much is guaranteed to know of because modded players will pretty much always know about vanilla progression

[slender goblet]

that's a good idea

but how to tell it is my question?

[drowsy plank]

It has been 3 hours so frankly I do not know what your intentions are at this point. The caps don't help either.

The point is Terraria is a wiki game and there are a LOT of issues exactly like this. There aren't easy ways to get the point across, so we make do. Someone already suggested a solution to this AND posted it, which you ignored. There is literally 0 reason to continue talking about this because you are not using the discussions here to improve your suggestion.

[slender goblet]

it is difficult

[ripe owl]

It is not

[slender goblet]

telling player something like that is difficult

[ripe owl]

[drowsy plank]

If we just make the labs more obvious, and with the (presumed) addition of draetalk soon, I think it will be much easier to convey this information across

[slender goblet]

"and there are a LOT of issues exactly like this. "

[ripe owl]

You know that uh, you can just slap a line or a few in one of the Logs/Decrypted Schematics, for example the very first one you're supposed to get?

[slender goblet]

but there isn't any at the moment

that's why i said it

[ripe owl]

Because nobody have addressed it

[drowsy plank]

Okay there, that's the new suggestion. Now we can move on

[ripe owl]

Hey Uber, you think you can cook up a nice sugg based on your idea?

[drowsy plank]

If you make the edits just ping me and I'll unflag it, but also you could probably just delete the old one and make a new one at this point lmao

[ornate slate]

To add onto the one I already posted?

[ripe owl]

Uuh, if it's possible to do? If not then it's a new suggestion

Or I could do so

[bright crag]

So, what I think we can do is
Add a message to the Schematics highlighting their importance, and their power cell consumption
And add Power Cells to the Codebreaker recipe,,to make sure players have placed a Factory in the very start

[ornate slate]

Yes

[drowsy plank]

Works for me

[ripe owl]

Sounds about right

[twin ravine]

“It’ll be very important later on”

Devious addition

[ripe owl]

Malicious intention

[twin ravine]

Cataclysmic intentions

[ornate slate]

Should I edit my suggestion to incorporate what you said? Or are you already going to go forward with this

[slender goblet]

You see, THAT's a good idea

together with the power consumption stated the problem would be near a fraction of what it is now

[ornate slate]

Just to gauge if the general population likes the idea

[slender goblet]

I still think it is bad game design for the player to be able to run into a time wall

[ornate slate]

If you run into one after this change goes through totally your fault

Too bad 👎

[bright crag]

You can edit

[ornate slate]

Will do

[slender goblet]

well it is, but that as punishment is still bad game design

[glass arch]

not really

[ripe owl]

If you miss out on an important part of the game

[slender goblet]

then go play clash of clans

[ripe owl]

And get punished for that

[glass arch]

we went over this already we shall not continue

[ripe owl]

That's a sign for missing out on that part

[bright crag]

(Ideally, all players would do things the intended way and not have to run into that time wall)
(Which is why we'll try to guide players a bit more)

[slender goblet]

punishment = good
Time wall punishment = bad

[drowsy plank]

We aren't doing this

[ripe owl]

I'd rather go watch something

Or go to sleep

Either works for me

[drowsy plank]

lol

[ripe owl]

Bye everyone

[ornate slate]

Done

Suggestion should be done now

[slender goblet]

oh also, please add the bugs you can scrap to the chest loot, like at least one

[ripe owl]

They uh

[slender goblet]

and do a "can be scrapped for power cells" in the descriotion

if it isnt there already

[ripe owl]

They passively spawn in the labs already

Why would they be a chest loot of all things

[slender goblet]

but players arent told they can be scraped until you catch them

[ripe owl]

Have you ever seen, like, Grasshoppers in the wooden chests?

[slender goblet]

to let players know how they can be used

[ripe owl]

You can kill them and they will drop the batteries

[ripe owl]

That wouldn't solve a lot honestly

[slender goblet]

they might drop it, putting it in chest would let everyone know

EVERYONE

[slender goblet]

another way for them to grind away the time wall

[ornate slate]

terraria is about experimentation. if you dont experiment like that you are doing at least 1 thing wrong

[ripe owl]

^^

Exactly

[drowsy plank]

yeah i think the proposed solutions are enough

[slender goblet]

I need to experiment with the loot of random ass critters

[drowsy plank]

we dont need to be completely handholdy

[slender goblet]

understood

[drowsy plank]

i mean how do you think people found duke and empress?

[slender goblet]

you wouldn't be, it would be a solution presented

[drowsy plank]

a line to their description would be enough i think

[slender goblet]

just because their are other problems doesn't mean anything

[slender goblet]

no one will cathc them

if they don't know

[ornate slate]

also, power cell factories in their inactive state could be made a little bit more obvious and identifiable

[drowsy plank]

those aren't problems that is intentional game design

[ornate slate]

i think someone mentioned that before

[slender goblet]

but it would be better at least

[drowsy plank]

yeah but we already have a sugg for that

[ornate slate]

gotcha

[drowsy plank]

i think adding a line to their item desc would be enough

[ripe owl]

You could kill them and get the same outcome: batteries

[slender goblet]

COULD drop

[ripe owl]

How would you find out about that? Experimenting

[drowsy plank]

yes we're getting back into pedantics

[ripe owl]

I mean it's not 5%

[slender goblet]

how much is it?

[ripe owl]

Search it up

[slender goblet]

no critter ever drops anything, you dnot have a reason to

dropped*

[ripe owl]

Piggy exists

[drowsy plank]

2-4 at 50%

[ornate slate]

maybe inactive factories have a blinking red light?

[slender goblet]

it has 5k life, you are sus about it

[slender goblet]

would just look like ambience

I would recommend some

[ripe owl]

Also you don't have to necessarily try to kill the repair units, you could be aiming for the enemies outside and it just so happens that a unit stands on the way of the attack so you kill it and it drops the battery

[slender goblet]

glitchy flickering light

[ripe owl]

Huh?

[slender goblet]

fair poin

t

500?

still more than any else

[drowsy plank]

piggy has a lot of health

so it seems weird

[slender goblet]

exactly

[drowsy plank]

is what they're saying

[glass arch]

piggy has 2k

[ornate slate]

calval has a bunch of critters that have more than usual health

[drowsy plank]

calval isnt cal main but w/e

[ripe owl]

Yeah but what is so weird? If it has more than 5 health then it's an enemy, if it's an enemy then you must kill it

[ornate slate]

something i remembered that was semi related

[drowsy plank]

yes that is the point they are making i think

[ripe owl]

As soon as you find out it's passive, you try to think of it as a friendly NPC
It doesn't talk, so the only other option is a critter

[ornate slate]

personally i obliterate every critter i see

[ripe owl]

Based

[drowsy plank]

bunny banners

[random talon]

Finally, the chat has calmed down :D

[ornate slate]

you hover mouse over something at the other side of the lab and see it has more than 5 health

so, you naturally assume its an enemy and dont want to find out if it does damage

so you attack it

[ripe owl]

Anyway where was I? Oh yes, I was going away

Okay byeeeeee

[random talon]

bye

[drowsy plank]

do you

[slender goblet]

no

[ornate slate]

oh yeah also of note, repair units battery drop is 50% so its possible you kill one and you dont think it drops something and ignore it forever

[drowsy plank]

take the batteries out one at a time???

[slender goblet]

in*

sorry

like with chest!

[drowsy plank]

oh

[slender goblet]

shift left them into the power stations

chargers

would be neat

don't know if its feasable though

seems a bit more complicated i think

[drowsy plank]

well i mean it's still just one slot, but i think the issue is more of a technical problem with how the UIs are implemented but idk guess we can wait for a dev to say

[slender goblet]

yeah, that's waht I meant with "don't think it's possible/easy"
But still a neat thing imo

[ornate slate]

Wait a minute

Is there something in game that points you going to the arsenal labs asap

Because theres always the (unlikely) possibility that you only find your first one late

[glass arch]

nothing right off the bat

[ornate slate]

Hmm

[glass arch]

but the planetoid lab is (almost) always right above spawn

[ornate slate]

Perhaps amidias could say something about the sunken sea lab?

[slender goblet]

sometimes it's a whole lot off

[drowsy plank]

arent lab seekers in gold cheets

[slender goblet]

also

[slender goblet]

no

BUT

[glass arch]

they're in lab chests

[drowsy plank]

i thought i made a suggestion about that

dang

[slender goblet]

the labs in sky and sunken see should really be switched in order

[ornate slate]

Amidias should definitely mention the sunken sea lab, the first one

No

[slender goblet]

you are far more likely to find that one

[ornate slate]

maybe if you press guide on amidias for the first time he mentions the sunken sea lab

[slender goblet]

I didn't have this npc till post ml lol

[ornate slate]

or he can also mention it after if you havent gone there yet

[slender goblet]

but still be helpful

[ornate slate]

thats weird

after you beat the desert scourge it pretty much sets you up to find him

[slender goblet]

how that?

[ornate slate]

it says stuff ab the sunken sea

[slender goblet]

it is weird to traverse early on

[ornate slate]

and youll eventually find giant clam

[slender goblet]

would never go there early

[slender goblet]

well, only if you stay there

[ornate slate]

spawns often enough

[slender goblet]

it is weird to traverse early on tho
So you might not stay long enough

FINALLY

5K cells

[ornate slate]

there you go

[glass arch]

i cant tell if this falls under the resprite dont

oh nvm it gone

[unreal saffron]

Yea i saw that too

[random talon]

damn where'd it go?

[glass arch]

deleted

[unreal saffron]

It was just something really short about respriting squirrel staff due to it looking off to the suggestor

[random talon]

the only suggestion that matters in regards to the staff is fixing its AI lmao

the thing can't hit anything that isn't 3 inches from it

[hybrid steeple]

yeah this one makes sense

not really a point in gating the first stuff behind sunken sea
it just incentivizes you to do them out of order

[frosty trellis]

Yeah

[unreal saffron]

W suggestion

[hybrid steeple]

whenever i play i usually get my stuff and then make a beeline for space so

[frosty trellis]

Yeah exactly

[ornate slate]

or just make sunken sea lab easier to find in the sunken sea

the sunken sea has the same shape always right

[drowsy plank]

the shell might help if that one passes

[frosty trellis]

It's just less intuitive regardless

[ornate slate]

just put it in the center

dead center

[frosty trellis]

The shell wouldn't help bc it would still be on the outskirts

[frosty trellis]

A suggestion to do that didn't pass bc it wasn't reasonably possible

[ornate slate]

oh

[frosty trellis]

It would've caused

SO many issues

Worldgen is already scuffed and fucked as is

[random pasture]

In general forcing worldgen to place things in very specific spots causes issues

[ornate slate]

idk

probably a good suggestion though

the one in suggestion posting

[swift wharf]

good suggestion

[ornate slate]

so the space lab is at the exact center of the world?

[drowsy plank]

about

[ornate slate]

ic

[swift wharf]

if you rope up as soon as you spawn you will see it 70% of the time

[wide river]

I can't help but think that this suggestion has been suggested before, but I don't remember when it was

[frosty trellis]

I know it's been discussed before

But I don't think it was ever suggested

[hybrid steeple]

theres enough debuff ores

at least auric rejection is unique

and has some cool map-making uses if anyone is so inclined

[wide river]

#suggestions-posting message
I actually do agree with this, somewhat
Like, if you were to get "rejected" by a Godly essence, would you get flung away at a high speed or would you get disintegrated on the spot?

[hybrid steeple]

its not godly essence

and yeah you do get disintegrated on the spot if youre a normal guy

[sleek turret]

radiation

[hybrid steeple]

the terrarian is Past the point of being a normal guy

[dense ferry]

Idk I think it's totally harmless

[hybrid steeple]

yeah

its not like a debuff would be any less annoying

and rejection is at least funny and (again) has some cool uses for some sort of human pinball map

[zenith hazel]

it sure as hell would be less annoying than being bounced back and forth

[dense ferry]

It's a feature that gets a jump on you the first time and just asks for you to actually think of a way of mining it without touching, which as you denoted there are a lot of ways of circumventing

[hybrid steeple]

shrimply dont touch the ore

mining isnt a challenge by that point

i think adding a bit more into it is good

[zenith hazel]

then why have that feature?

[dense ferry]

And cave systems are closed enough that at most you would get flung a few meters and with Endgame movement that's just one second to come back

[hybrid steeple]

to

make mining a challenge

[zenith hazel]

ok, why does it need to be?

[hybrid steeple]

or at least a bit of one

[dense ferry]

Not even a challenge

Just

Make you think for two seconds

[hybrid steeple]

the year is 2024 etc

[zenith hazel]

you’re telling me people will go “omg auric ore is so cool, imma go mine it lets gooo oh no I got bounced back”

[hybrid steeple]

yes

that is

[zenith hazel]

instead of “finally let’s just mine this shit and get out”

[hybrid steeple]

the usual thought process?

[zenith hazel]

it’s post ml

mining became a trivial problem like 10 bosses ago

[hybrid steeple]

i dont see why adding more exploration time and challenge to a point where exploratory activities are trivial is a bad thing

id already like there to be more enemy combat at that stage but

at least rejection gives something

[dense ferry]

Yeah, and again, the bouncing isn't something that fucks shit up

At most you lose one second because of it

And it's not a challenge, but it's something that actually makes you think a bit on how to do it

[zenith hazel]

so does it exist just to waste your time then?

[hybrid steeple]

so do enemies
and grinding
and having to get items from the world instead of just having them in a chest at spawn

[dense ferry]

If that's how you view challenging the player to come up with creative solutions to problems the game throws at you, ueah

[zenith hazel]

just so we’re clear, I only think the bouncing is stupid

[hybrid steeple]

^^^^^^

[zenith hazel]

the rejection is a neat idea but the punishment sucks ass

I’m not gonna sugarcoat it

[fervent orbit]

if you think the bouncing is too harsh, maybe asking to reduce how much it bounces you rather than fucking deleting it

[hybrid steeple]

as rebecca has said

the punishment is flinging you backwards in a small enclosed cave when youre at the peak of your movement capabilities

like youll be fine

[wide river]

Agreed
Getting rapidly hit in a small cave can lead to your health being completely deleted in a matter of seconds

[zenith hazel]

I’m saying removing it is also an option because it’s so god damn pointless at the point you’re at

[dense ferry]

As much as you do get fucking sent to space in an open space, you are not doing the thing in an open space

[dense ferry]

Also this is so situational it's completely negligeable

If you get yourself stuck between two Auric Ore veins honestly what the fuck were you doing?

[drowsy plank]

brimrose

[hybrid steeple]

TRUE

[wide river]

You keep insisting upon Auric Ore being in small caves, and when I mention it it's suddenly situational?

[hybrid steeple]

where else would it be?

[sleek turret]

the bouncing mechanic will just make you use the extra range given by the post ml pickaxes making the mechanic pointless after experimenting what the auric ore does in the first place tbh...

[fervent orbit]

yes a cave. not a stripmine

[wide river]

Then it's not situational

[hybrid steeple]

idk i dont find auric ore spawning in the open air

[drowsy plank]

tesla potion + brimrose + looking at where ur going

[dense ferry]

Because the chances of you hitting another Auric Ore vein are nearly zero

[sleek turret]

therefore making the mechanic pointless to some point

[wide river]

I never mentioned hitting a second vein, you brought that up yourself

[dense ferry]

But then

How are you going to bounce repeatedly and die?

[glass arch]

now im not sure if my knowledge is outdated but im pretty sure blossom pick has more than enough speed to break you out of one of those situations

[drowsy plank]

it'd be nice if like
idk yharim's gift also made u immune to it so you dont get punished for not wearing auric 24/7
but otherwise it's literally fine

[dense ferry]

You can easily tank like, 4 hits from Auric Rejection

[dense ferry]

Oh that's a neat idea

[fervent orbit]

by being in a stripmine

[hybrid steeple]

itd fit thematically i guess

[fervent orbit]

it seems theres been a misunderstanding between "small cave" and a stripmine

[wide river]

Then you get punished for not wearing Auric Tesla or Yharim's Gift 24/7
It's the same situation

[drowsy plank]

like it's very funny getting smacked when wearing. gem tech. demonshade. armors that are stronger than auric

not really

[hybrid steeple]

why is this so bad but

[drowsy plank]

auric is an entire armor set you dont switch them out much

[hybrid steeple]

hellstone and meteor and astral arent?

[dense ferry]

Or you can

[drowsy plank]

but like. people absolutely wear obsidian skull just to mine meteorite

[fervent orbit]

scoria too right?

[glass arch]

unlike here you dont get bonked

[drowsy plank]

it'd suck ass if you had to wear meteorite armor just to mine it

[hybrid steeple]

i forget if it does anything

[fervent orbit]

the way u deal with it is the same tho

[glass arch]

byeah uh you really dont have to think hard about it to not get hit by the rejection

[wide river]

By this argument, wearing Auric Tesla to invalidate the effect is bad

[zenith hazel]

what do you even mean by this

[fervent orbit]

just place one block ontop the ore

[hybrid steeple]

id argue that hellstone spawning lava is worse for the time you mine it but thats a vanilla feature anyways
and it still comes up with the same solution

[fervent orbit]

[zenith hazel]

to an unsuspecting player, this could very well happen

[dense ferry]

Use an infinite flight mount
Use the extended range of your Pickaxe
Carefully manueaver your way around the Ore

[sleek turret]

scoria drops some fiery pieces from above and if it hits you get damaged

[hybrid steeple]

and they get punished! and learn! this is how games work!

[drowsy plank]

yeah i think it's lame that wearing auric is the ONLY way to do it
which is why i proposed a second way to do it
having auric still be immune just makes sense

[dense ferry]

.

[hybrid steeple]

yeah

[zenith hazel]

but should they get punished in such a stupid way?

[drowsy plank]

like how wearing molten makes you immune to fire debuffs so you could use that

[zenith hazel]

absolutely not??

[dense ferry]

By dying? Yeah

[drowsy plank]

but having that be the only way is restrictive

[wide river]

Ah yes, let me just put some instakill attacks in my game to punish the player and make them learn
Good game design

[hybrid steeple]

its not an instakill???

[drowsy plank]

they dont instakill you what

[dense ferry]

First of all, this isn't a Boss fight

[hybrid steeple]

^^

[north oracle]

It’s not even close to an instakill

[zenith hazel]

if your argument is “ok they die because of this gimmick”, that’s not a good defense

[wide river]

I never said it was a boss fight, nor did I say that Auric Ore was an instakill

[hybrid steeple]

what

does this even mean

[drowsy plank]

i hooked to auric once and managed to jump back off like you need to be TRYING to die to it

[zenith hazel]

just read what rebecca was saying

[dense ferry]

Yeah

[hybrid steeple]

i

i still dont get it

[dense ferry]

Dying to Auric Ore is just insanely hard in the first place

[north oracle]

I’ve not died to it in preboss gear by just not amplifying the electrified damage with moving

[zenith hazel]

.

please

[hybrid steeple]

like yeah. people die because of things. this too is how video games work

[dense ferry]

And there are so many ways of circumventing the flung

[zenith hazel]

but is there a need for it to be that way?

[fervent orbit]

fire isnt hot because ive never been burnt by fire

[zenith hazel]

do you just have it be there for giggles?

[fervent orbit]

[zenith hazel]

come on

[dense ferry]

Why wouldn't there be?

[zenith hazel]

because it’s absurd??

[glass arch]

auric rejection gives you an actual non boss threat

[dense ferry]

Just because Mining is supposed to be a trivial experience?

[wide river]

Then why does it exist if it's extremely hard?
If you can easily avoid the effect, then why is it there?

[drowsy plank]

i think it makes mining more dynamic and is a cool mechanic for maps because like do yall know of any other trampoline like block

[hybrid steeple]

why is this one specifically absurd anyways

[zenith hazel]

because it’s absolutely unnecessary?

[drowsy plank]

why does meteorite burn you

[north oracle]

All the other ones that try to kill you are unnecessary too

[hybrid steeple]

how?

[glass arch]

you could say the same about hellstone meteorite and astral ore

[hybrid steeple]

there are other ores that do this

[zenith hazel]

dude I

[hybrid steeple]

auric just adds a unique component to it

[zenith hazel]

I’m done

I already explained my reasoning

[sleek turret]

auric isn't bad because i haven't expierenced incredible amounts of electricity going through my body to the point of it flinging my body /s

[wide river]

Hellstone and Meteorite aren't as debilitating as Auric

[dense ferry]

HELLSTONE

You are telling me

[hybrid steeple]

what makes auric debilitating

[dense ferry]

Hellstone is

Easier to mine

Ok.

[hybrid steeple]

^^^^

[north oracle]

^^

[glass arch]

the debuff is easier to get around

the lava isnt

[fervent orbit]

Syntax Error.

[north oracle]

[wide river]

Large damage and getting launched as compared to just a fire debuff and being slow

[dense ferry]

Hellstone fucking spawning lava

[zenith hazel]

it’s bad design and I’ll leave it at that

[drowsy plank]

did you know you can negate half the effect with a potion
which you can also do with auric

[glass arch]

you can completely remove half of it with a single accessory too

[hybrid steeple]

being slow is more debilitating than being thrown backwards i think

[wide river]

Would you expect a normal player to drink Tesla Potions before going into a cave

[fervent orbit]

at the stage of the game u should be encountering the debuff ores, their debuffs are quite strong

[hybrid steeple]

once they know of the mechanic yeah?

[drowsy plank]

this is what i did because i realized it inflicted electrified

[fervent orbit]

astral ore literally does 10hp per second

[dense ferry]

No but I do once they realize what Auric Rejection is

[hybrid steeple]

i still dont see how this is any different than hellstone

[zenith hazel]

you can’t be serious

[glass arch]

first time around? no
once they know about the effect? yes

[hybrid steeple]

im perfectly serious

[drowsy plank]

if you're shot away from the ore ur shot away from the damage

[zenith hazel]

I see

[hybrid steeple]

if i want to recover from being launched back i can just

[fervent orbit]

true

[hybrid steeple]

press the a key

if i want to recover from being slow i have to wait

[fervent orbit]

being launched is an advantage over being slowed

[drowsy plank]

how to not die to auric: put your hands back on the keyboard

[hybrid steeple]

^^^^^^^^^^

[fervent orbit]

also you can just hold space

[dense ferry]

You don't even have to do that

[wide river]

This is literally going nowhere. I see no reason to continue to try and persuade the lot of you.
If you're going to insist upon this being fine, then I can't change your opinion. Just know that this is a garbage mechanic to some people.

[dense ferry]

Because you literally

[north oracle]

So true

[dense ferry]

Get sent away

[hybrid steeple]

this seems very much like a 2024 argument

[zenith hazel]

this

[fervent orbit]

or hook onto smthn that isnt next to auric ore

[dense ferry]

Ok then both of you are just going to leave because you can't convince us what's wrong

[drowsy plank]

all im hearing is "it is bad and annoying because it is bad and annoying"

[dense ferry]

Sure

[north oracle]

I mean yeah it’s annoying
But I’m not entirely sure why you find it so annoying that it should be removed

[dense ferry]

It's not even annoying

[wide river]

Don't instigate this further, please. I just want to continue on with my day.

[north oracle]

(It’s a bit annoying)

[glass arch]

many things in terraria are annoying
this is a special case because ???

[dense ferry]

It's literally just a mechanic that asks for you to think slightly before mining an Ore

[fervent orbit]

because its late game or smthn idk

[drowsy plank]

honestly id almost argue that this suggestion is lacking any real reasoning beyond "it is annoying to me"???
like it even addresses how to circumvent it in the suggestion

[zenith hazel]

I just said what's wrong

[dense ferry]

Nah, it can definitely go to voting

[hybrid steeple]

all of these arguments could be applied to literally anything anyways
"oh do you expect players to bring [x potion that negates debuffs] into [boss that inflicts said debuff]?" yes once they know the boss inflicts those debuffs

[drowsy plank]

like yes that is how you deal with it and when you have a bajillion regen and wings and hooks and mounts something like this is reaching the point where this is the only thing that could even really bother you

[glass arch]

like no offense but id say the hot feet debuff from hellstone/meteorite is extremely debilitating and also just as easy to get away from as auric rejection

[north oracle]

And it doesn’t even come close to killing you unless you try to die to it

[zenith hazel]

I'm leaving because there's no point in arguing this any further and I'd rather save my sanity for a problem that isn't bad design

[drowsy plank]

i forget does calamity scale DCU mining power with the pick in your inventory

[hybrid steeple]

bad design (mildly inconveniencing me when im not fighting a boss)

[zenith hazel]

you all can disagree however you'd like, I'm not changing my stance

[glass arch]

fair enough

[dense ferry]

Ok

[vernal spruce]

Ok.

[serene tendon]

@zenith hazel
"as using VeinMiner and thus completely eliminating the gimmick of the ore"
That's on you for using a cheat mod. This isn't the first time Veinminer has trivialized something otherwise difficult. Remember the regular and astral meteors?

[drowsy plank]

id say brav already moved on but this is kinda of just an expected result of posting a sugg

but i doubt you're going to get a response

[glass arch]

is veinminer really a cheat mod

[drowsy plank]

but it's been pretty beaten to death already

[undone cedar]

You don’t need to ping people who just said they didn’t want to engage with this convo

Reading up a bit is not hard

[serene tendon]

I've given examples of situations in which it is. Using it for just tin or gold? Nah. Using it for a meteor, astral or regular? Yeah.

[undone cedar]

Anyways, regardless of whether auric rejection is good or not, saying “this is a 2024 argument” is a bad defense for auric rejection

[hybrid steeple]

that
wasnt the only thing i said

i did in fact elaborate on all of it

[dense ferry]

Wasn't mine either

[glass arch]

please can we not do this again we all agreed we cant change anyone heres mind

[hybrid steeple]

yeah

[dense ferry]

I'm just gonna shove myself into Lore Disc again bye

[hybrid steeple]

lore ‼️

[vernal spruce]

Lore.

Lord do be loring

[serene tendon]

My bad, I didn't realize. I probably should look up first next time.

[undone cedar]

We all agree that having engaging gameplay outside of bosses is good, nobody wants to do the hyperbolic pure bossrush game, bringing that up is creating a strawman argument
The disagreement is simply about the nature of how outside of boss content should function

[halcyon zealot]

[swift wharf]

brav banger

[halcyon zealot]

perhaps people have been pressured into becoming defensive, consequently turning people obstinate
remember we enjoy the same game, lets acknowledge issues others have before offering feedback

[ornate slate]

idk vein miner isnt very cheaty

mining ore is very annoying and tedious

especially in big veins like auric

[halcyon zealot]

also be careful with using snarky/condescending language and try your best not to make negative implications regarding people in your discussions. it's immature
sorry for the small dump, yes this isn't the place for it but I hope we learn little by little

ah shit minimod incident

[dense ferry]

What?

Oh, wait

Oh, ok, I get what you were saying

[halcyon zealot]

👍

[bright crag]

You know you can just use blocks to avoid physical contact right

It's about that - finding ways to circumvent the rejection

And I feel like a debuff would be worse
Because it'd either be too weak to be meaningful, or a silent death

[sinful violet]

i think debuff'd also be boring since that's just hellstone rehash

at the same time it's annoying in general, and it might be more interesting to have it be a tradeoff

efficient but different/dangerous to mine

i.e maybe you can't traditionally break the ore with a pickaxe

instead when it'd "break" it cracks/glows and a big chunk of the vein explodes

[drowsy plank]

it already inflicts electrified anyway 👍

[sinful violet]

you get time to back off and just collect all the ore that drops afterwards.

although in the end

im in the make auric not an ore camp anyway

[drowsy plank]

what would it be then lmfao

[sinful violet]

put the trampoline stuff somewhere else if they want to keep that

[drowsy plank]

id be okay if it got moved to like
idk draedon energy field blocks or something

[sinful violet]

anything that isnt just Go Child, you Yearn for the Mines

doesnt have to be now either

save it for the aerie

[bright crag]

That'd be interesting, if modified to fit in

[sinful violet]

when that drops

[sinful violet]

just having a tradeoff in terms of mining efficiency*/risk makes more sense rather than tedium

and yeah some sort of Draedon Force Field blocks would be a better alternative if you want to keep a trampoline block

People'll more likely to notice the ore has that interaction, just craft it all into auric anyway and not think about it again

Having the "trampoline" effect be the main purpose of the tile'll* make it have more relevance.

[undone cedar]

Mrrp is true as always

[hollow shell]

presumably the power cell sugg that has since been deleted

Uber's suggestion about making them more clearly important is better than that one was yeah

Somehow I did not think about adding batteries to a Codebreaker recipe and that's kinda genius

I always thought about like
making Power Cell Factories shine and glow kinda like Treasure Bags

until you pick one up

[golden sonnet]

Or like the sparkle effect some things go off

Like the "soft" spelunker visual

[viral hill]

Fix the minimap icon for the Destroyer
Once the boss starts speeding up, the icon lags behind and it's dumb.

[grim tusk]

Ye that sugg is gone now

[drowsy plank]

that would be a bug

and would go in #1052323733961977947

[cobalt pewter]

for the last sugg

yeah it could be a bit useless

[small timber]

"balance without being too overpowered" 🚸

[stable kiln]

Saros...

[small timber]

@vagrant tundra squirrel squire staff was a summon, and they explicitly reworked it into a sentry

there are 2 main reason with this:

1. squirrel squire will stay "usable" even after you acquire a new summon as sentry do not occupy minion slot, and there is generally a lack of early sentry in the game
2. currently (most) summoner weapon are balanced around the fact that you have 2 minion slots, the reason is because if they didn't otherwise you will instantly get 2x damage and nuke every enemy in the game as soon as you get 2 minion slot

HOWEVER, squirrel squire staff get to ignore this condition because you can't get 2 sentry slot immediately until post-EoW/BoC, therefore squirrel squire, being a sentry, get to be full power from the get go

and squirrel squire staff is definitely not a "bad and inconsistent weapon", in fact it is more consistent than most summoner weapon you can find early in the game

[stable kiln]

and yeah I'm flagging that

[small timber]

this still works perfectly

even this

and this

[stable kiln]

lmao

[small timber]

tldr: I will definitely take squirrel squire 9/10 compare to like, finch staff

[ripe owl]

Done wtf since when are you a Cal dev?

Did I miss that much?

[vagrant tundra]

I appreciate the explanation! I'm in no way saying the squirrel squire is bad, but I've has times when the squirrel would be right in front of an enemy and miss somehow do to unlevel ground when flighting an enemy or some other reason. the best way i found to use it especially in the first night is build a box like 10 block above the ground and have the squirrel 5 block above the ground to shoot directly and an enemy. and yes 100% i would take it over a finch staff.

[halcyon zealot]

Squirrel accuracy do be a bit silly

[halcyon zealot]

Regarding lore sugg in voting
I do wish there was more subtle / implied lore that shows players the lore rather than tells them
Hollow Knight is a fantastic example, most of the lore is inferred from the environment (biomes), enemies, bosses, and more
Not as much is given through text (mostly in collectors edition lore kinda stuff)

[glass arch]

the environmental storytelling will come Eventually™️

not completely positive but i believe theres a bit ingame with mechanics shed and maybe vernal pass

[drowsy plank]

this is basically planned yeah

i almost want to ping dev and just ask if this can be 🔒 tbh? cause like

yeah stuff like lore items is going to die

and idr HOW many suggs we've had about foreshadowing with background elements

[glass arch]

why have lore items when you can just
ask yharim

[drowsy plank]

real and true

i love the idea that yharim is just chilling in the aerie like a fucking legend of zelda old man spewing out wisdom until you go to kill him

[swift wharf]

i was gonna say "isnt that planned why is it still up""

[glass arch]

regarding the shift click batteries thing
cant you already shift click them into your inventory

i could have sworn i did that literally yesterday

[drowsy plank]

hey uh @jovial spire you handle most of the lore stuff right? lore items are gonna die, and lore will be reworked to be less weirdly handled, so you think this is worth 🔒 ing? #suggestions-voting message

[jovial spire]

Lore is very actively being worked on yeah

Only lore items are gonna die but it'll be because when they're removed you'll jsut be hearing it from Yharim himself

that's the plan for those