suggestions-discussion

[drowsy plank]

LOL

[undone cedar]

Imagine if terraria two released and it was like actually a Good Game i would lose my mind and explode (this wont happen

[dense locust]

do this anyway

[fossil finch]

just buy smm2 mfs the second a reason to dunk on nintendo appears on their screen

[dense locust]

would this lead to calamity mod 3?

[fossil finch]

by the time terraria 2 releases we will all be playing silksong

[sinful violet]

god no

[drowsy plank]

smm2 when they shut down wifi support in like 5 years or something when they move to the new console

[fossil finch]

so like

itd take longer than that actually

[undone cedar]

They both will never release then

[dense locust]

what if silksong ends up being bad

[fossil finch]

however you are very true

[shell grotto]

Terraria is a good game though, why is this discussion implying it isn't?

[undone cedar]

I am not implying

[lucid flare]

good games aren't supposed to have flaws

[fossil finch]

that was our point

[swift wharf]

terraria isn't a good game with flaws it's a bad game with good things

[dense locust]

because modded players hate the vanilla game or smthn (it's the same game)

[fossil finch]

based

[undone cedar]

Good!

[fossil finch]

like terraria 2 will not reasonably release anytime at all specially not with the noita ass looking map

[drowsy plank]

terraria is fun, but i dont think it is a "good game" in the context of game design

i fucking hated terraria when i played it for the first time with my friends bc all i did was make an asphault highway for 12 hours because no one told me what the fuck was happening

[swift wharf]

we simply "like" bad games

[swift wharf]

i hope that is a joke

because what the fuck is that

[undone cedar]

I don’t hate terraria
I dont think it’s good tho

[fossil finch]

red would do it for real so we'll practice being careful around that

it is very funny

[undone cedar]

Im hoping it’s not like
Genuinely representative of the map

[fossil finch]

its also an early concept so technically it doesnt matter

anyways why were yall discussing progression again

because of the evil 2 sugg?

[dense locust]

I think

[lucid flare]

yea

[fossil finch]

if thats the case just remove calclone

thats it

that fixes the whole thing

[sinful violet]

it's so true

[drowsy plank]

#suggestions-discussion message

this

[sinful violet]

if cal's willing to make huge cuts on actual boss content to improve on what's left the experience would be

well

i cant guarantee itd be better

[lucid flare]

honestly evil2 bosses being in hardmode kinda gives more reason to... be in the evil biomes

[drowsy plank]

yes that is the point

i think their AIs are cool and evil biomes are dropped like hot coals after early hardmode

[fossil finch]

evils 2 also fit the hm expanded evil theming better

rn they incorporate ichor and cursed flames as a part of their design despite phmode lacking them

[drowsy plank]

also yall are always saying to just like remove every single boss in the game but idk what the fuck that does besides remove half the game's identity because as much as we meander about exploration and design and whatever people don't talk about like. idfk how great the improved calamity generation is. (well, we do bc we have good taste but w/e) people like it because of the bosses. so id rather just move it so they actually matter and feel relevant, and give a skeleton for all the other cool content to exist in. and some of these just seem so obvious in terms of improving progression

[fossil finch]

what are you referring to here exactly though

like newer biome gen has existed for a month and its still relatively unfinished by chocie ofc its not talked about much

[hybrid steeple]

they will once the biome reworks come out hopefully

[fossil finch]

thing is you fucking

run out of space to make things relevant

by Design if you have too much stuff in the same place in a game it just

[sinful violet]

thats because it hasnt been great for most of its existence give it some time

[fossil finch]

Bloats the Place

[drowsy plank]

yeah so move stuff around. that's the point of the original message

[fossil finch]

Where

[sinful violet]

ill have you know sulf sea gen was basically the last thing i designed with dom before i ditched

[fossil finch]

like this whole discussion is about the Where

[hybrid steeple]

anyways yeah i think moving evil 2 would be good
and the only thing i could see conflicting with it lore-wise is the aerialite lore

[drowsy plank]

aerialite can just be moved to boc and eow they're literally the same boss xd

[fossil finch]

y e a

[drowsy plank]

that's how it used to work anyway

[sinful violet]

thats fine yeah but there's still a bunch of basically legacy boss content with very little identity of its own

[fossil finch]

also disagree with your stuf because it implies there a meaningful difference between post plant and post golem when theres kinda not (and eitherway it ends with this late hardmode bossrush that doesn't get broken up by basically anything at all)

and the point of removing is honestly just

that things dont really deserve to exists

thats why instead of memeing a random boss we just went for calclone

its the boss we actually think should be removed here

[hybrid steeple]

removing calclone would deprive scal of one of the few scraps of foreshadowing she has though

[fossil finch]

theres better ways to do it honestly

[drowsy plank]

i just fundementally disagree, the more obvious solution is to just make the divide bigger and make the difference more actually impactful, we're constantly talking about how if we could just stretch progression a bit longer it would improve the game, but no one actually wants to do that because it. idk messes with vanilla player's previous assumptions which i think is silly because calamity already does that anyway

[hybrid steeple]

when the modification modifies the game

[drowsy plank]

YEAH

[sinful violet]

well we've yet to see any actual attempt at redesigning clone at least

[fossil finch]

Thing is dont think adding more bosses to a place stretches progression
It kinda bloats it

[hybrid steeple]

and it would go really well with hardmode lore

[fossil finch]

This is because there's basically no breaks or differences between those points of progression

[hybrid steeple]

since evil buff happens because of an outpouring of godly essence when wof dies

[drowsy plank]

im not talking about that anymore, this is a whole nother issue about a hypothetical i made once about adding another tier to progression by moving the cultist flag off of golem, as doing so would give items more of a place to shine and literally make the room for the bosses to not be bloat

[lucid flare]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/225030931008847874/959186588540207205/output.gif

[hybrid steeple]

that godly essence would then result in the mind of the god that became the corruption becoming more lucid and attempting to reform
and the perforators being able to wield ichor

[hybrid steeple]

TRUE

[wide river]

So true

[lucid flare]

doesn't hive mind have some semblance of cursed flame on it as well?

[drowsy plank]

yes

[lucid flare]

also both of them drop [Hardmode Evil Component] if you kill them in HM

[fossil finch]

As always our opinion is that if time travel ever is invented the first thing that anyone should do with it is preventing terraria from existing

[wide river]

Considering Perforators inflict Ichor in pre-Hardmode for some reason, moving them to Hardmode would work

[hybrid steeple]

yeah

[sinful violet]

still would be a nightmare to move into like mid-hardmode and still have their moveset work but

all true points are being made

[hybrid steeple]

i know there is a lore reason for them disenchanting aerialite
which is the only thing i can see conflicting lore-wise

[drowsy plank]

it would be hard yes, but frankly it'd be better than whatever the fuck they are now

[fossil finch]

the lore is modified all the time for the game honestly it doesnt matter

Good stuff shouldnt be stopped by silly stuff like "the lore"

[drowsy plank]

boc and eow are the same boss it would cause 0 lore issue tbqh

[sinful violet]

real but also like it has to BE good

[hybrid steeple]

yeah i just know cei is adamant that this is the last version of the lore

[drowsy plank]

tbqh moving the bosses around doesn't change what they are

give me like 10 minutes and i could type up a doc explaining how all this shit could still work while im in class

[sinful violet]

oh i have no problem with like the world integration aspect

im more concerned about how you dont immediately invalidate perforators with mid HM gear

it'd need a total redesign

[wide river]

Make them like Aureus and give them massive DR and Defense

[dense locust]

yeah when you move a boss with pre hm mobility in mind to mid hm you kinda have to alter a lot of things

[fossil finch]

yeah rework them

honestly

like just rework them too

[dense locust]

but like, perf and hive mind are already both damn good bosses, and I feel like a rework might honestly make them worse

[glass arch]

hm is decent

perfs is pretty unique

though the worms

[swift wharf]

imo hive is more unique than perf

[dense locust]

hive is a unique and fun boss with a lame af first phase

[swift wharf]

the curse of calamity first phases

[lucid flare]

the calamitas clone in the room:

[sinful violet]

real

im SCARED of HM getting fucked up

[fossil finch]

well that speaks a lot of

of

[dense locust]

of

[fossil finch]

of calamity bosses as a whole doesnt it

[glass arch]

of

[swift wharf]

simply let terry rework it

[wide river]

So true

[drowsy plank]

[sinful violet]

[glass arch]

is using 1.4.4 features as reasoning against the rules

i dont remember

[drowsy plank]

yeah

[wide river]

I believe it is, which is why a lot of suggestions are waiting until then to be suggested

[drowsy plank]

@woven yarrow you can't use 1.4.4 as reasoning

im giving him like 5 minutes until i flag it

[sinful violet]

suggestions posters waiting until the second cal for tmod 1.4.4 drops

[glass arch]

replace the shellphone and 1.4.4 bit with like
Vanilla already has Demon Conch, an item that serves the exact same purpose as Astral Arcanum's teleport while being available much earlier.

[wide river]

That's pretty much what I'm doing

[drowsy plank]

same

also true conch is also craftable in cal so

he changed it but didn't say anything in here

[glass arch]

even if it wasnt its still available post evil1

[drowsy plank]

weird but aight

i dont know why we need a tp to the desert but it isn't invalid anymore

well

blatantly at least

[sinful violet]

good luck

[drowsy plank]

there's literally 0 content in the desert

why do we need a teleport to it

[sinful violet]

umm

[wide river]

Oh great, I was about to make a suggestion regarding the Crown Jewel upgrade line, but now that this one is here I can't do it, otherwise they'll conflict

[sinful violet]

antlion queen…….

[drowsy plank]

it's usually right next to spawn anyway??

[swift wharf]

antiaris was never real mrrp

and yeah desert has

[wide river]

Sometimes it's past the Jungle, for some reason

[swift wharf]

a fucking pylon

[sinful violet]

what the fuck……….

[swift wharf]

why don't people just use pylons....................

[drowsy plank]

okay @woven yarrow im pinging again because you lack any reasoning for this, why desert? cal is notorious for it's utter lack of desert content, furthermore, desert has a pylon, and on top of ALL of this, the desert is usually right next to your spawn anyway?

[wide river]

So true can we just remove the teleport part of Astral Arcanum 🙏

[golden sonnet]

I mean, it's nice to have a pylon for underground and a teleport for suface

[fossil finch]

we should add a forest conch

[glass arch]

recall potion

[drowsy plank]

this is why i liked my cal structure tp idea better but regardless if you can't come up with a better reason ill prolly flag it for lack of reasoning, arcanum needs work obviously, but this just isn't it

[wide river]

Spawn conch

[glass arch]

magic mirror

[golden sonnet]

shellphone has that

funnily enough

[swift wharf]

anyways sunken sea pylon exists if you want to mention underground desert

so desert gets TWO pylons

[golden sonnet]

what if I play multiplayer though

[swift wharf]

L

[golden sonnet]

TRUE

[drowsy plank]

also there is like 0 underground desert content anyway

it's all sunken

which. has pylon

[woven yarrow]

That's a point what about snow? It's often far away from spawn and at least has cryonic

[drowsy plank]

snow and desert spawn on either side of spawn...,.,.,.

and also have pylons.......

[cosmic karma]

temple?

[woven yarrow]

jungle has too and is an option

[drowsy plank]

yeah places like temple, dungeon, cal structures were all ones i gave

[cosmic karma]

only place that doesn’t have pylon

oh dungeon

[drowsy plank]

dungeon is already on there tho

[swift wharf]

dungeon has an option iirc

[drowsy plank]

yeah

[cosmic karma]

oh

[drowsy plank]

being able to quick access the forsaken archives could be useful tho, same with vernal pass and jungle temple

[swift wharf]

anyways you only mine cryonic ONCE why do you need an item to teleport you to the snow

[wide river]

I really don't think the Astral Arcanum needs a quick teleport point function, considering Pylons essentially make the thing useless
The only two places that don't have Pylons are the Dungeon and the Temple, but you can just use a Magic Conch for the Dungeon and a Jungle Pylon for the Temple

[cosmic karma]

crimson imo,

[woven yarrow]

thats true, but if you think about it basically every other option of Astral Arcanum is kinda redundant

[drowsy plank]

yes

which is why people are mostly just asking for it to die

the only real niche it could fill is the one i mentioned

because everything else already has a quick travel option

and even then

teleporters exist

at least hell is far away, so. idk. redundant methods of access or something

[undone cedar]

The teleportation function is just weird and out of place and useless imo

[drowsy plank]

p much

[woven yarrow]

but that's basically all this accessory offers apart from 12 defense and Astral infection immunity which are really not worth mentioning

[undone cedar]

Yeah so rework the accessory completely

[woven yarrow]

probably the best solution actually

[drowsy plank]

yeah imma just hit the desert thing for now
if you wanna make a sugg about arcanum u can just write a new one

[undone cedar]

I would make a suggestion to rework it but typing on mobile is annoying

[woven yarrow]

that's okay, I also realised how useless this little of a change would be by now. Ill think about a knew one

[undone cedar]

Oh cool

[wide river]

I think I might need a bit more reasoning in the second half, but for now it might be fine

[undone cedar]

I think you could mention that the accessory lacks identity

[wide river]

I figured I should also mention the fact that the teleport of the Astral Arcanum is mostly rendered useless by Pylons, as that's probably a key point for this matter

[hybrid steeple]

such a true and real suggestion

[wide river]

Why are you posting memes in suggestions

[drowsy plank]

@jade cargostay on topic

[jade cargo]

because there isint a meme channel duh

[hybrid steeple]

💀

[wide river]

There isn't one because there shouldn't be

[drowsy plank]

do it again and you won't be able to post images at all :)

[jade cargo]

aight fine

i wont share my top quality memes i got off google

[frosty trellis]

I am not fully sure on the crown jewel one
I can get the useless effects stuff but Astral Arcanum is actually a fantastic defensive accessory as the life regen it gives actually cancels out Vuln Hex entirely which is huge

[wide river]

It doesn't even need to be a full rework, just something better than "Here's Crown Jewel's effect but stronger with immunity to a debuff that is irrelevant and a teleport that's useless"

[drowsy plank]

it is quite literally just a bigger stat stick with each upgrade

[wide river]

I had another idea about Astral Arcanum, although I don't think I can add it to the suggestion.
What if we just made Astral Arcanum a full Astral-themed survivability accessory?

[drowsy plank]

i mean it already kinda is

so i guess that works

[wide river]

Just make it focus on defense and life regen, then we could throw Ursa Sergeant into it to justify the "Immunity to Astral Infection" part

[drowsy plank]

i thought it'd be funny if it got an effect that gave you stat boosts while under chaos state to reference its (presumably old) ability to teleport

oh true

[wide river]

Like, these two together would just be a perfect combo, would they not?

[woven yarrow]

I had the idea to move it post astrum deus, remove the teleportation and throw Hide of Astrum Deus into the recipe. Do you think thats worth a suggestion?

[frosty trellis]

NO

NO NO NO NO NO

DO NOT PUT HOAD IN ANYTHING

[drowsy plank]

hide upgrade..,.,...

[frosty trellis]

HOAD IS BROKEN AS ALL FUCK AS IS

WE DO NOT NEED AN UPGRADE FOR IT

[wide river]

Hide of Astrum Deus is already incredibly broken as an accessory, giving it an upgrade would break the fabric of true melee playstyles

[fervent orbit]

ah yes give my defensive accessory even more defensive capabilities

[frosty trellis]

(Also yeah Arcanum isn't in need of a buff it's good on it's own and frankly We really do not need defense to be stronger than it already is)

[wide river]

If you're worried about it being too broken, we could always put it later than post-Ceaseless Void
It also wouldn't be a full upgrade to both of them, because that style of upgrade is lame

[drowsy plank]

what's the fuckin star veil upgrade again

[fervent orbit]

deific amulet?

[wide river]

Deific Amulet?

[frosty trellis]

Deific Amulet and Rampart afterwards

Two of the most hilariously broken accessories

[wide river]

Also technically Universal Genesis but that's beside the point

[fervent orbit]

[drowsy plank]

rampart 2

[drowsy plank]

that's what rampart does

[gentle hound]

not that this should be a reason for changing teleport to sunken sea but
sunken pylon is completely useless in multiplayer worlds right now
forsaken archives tp would actually be useful but it doesn't make sense to put on an astral-themed accessory

[drowsy plank]

your right that doesnt matter because we dont design around bugs

also why does astral teleport to the jungle, hell, and dungeon rn?

[tired haven]

Well, 2 out of 3 are relatively far locations that had no ease of access (hi demon conch)
No clue about jungle, especially considering you can't really guarantee going on its surface to fight yharon

dungeon is a bit ironic in itself because you need to get there to get arcanum, but polter exists so eh, fair enough

[drowsy plank]

i meant like

how does the places i mention make any less sense than the ones it already has if you're trying to justify it with its astral themeing

[swift wharf]

yharon isn't jungle related anymore btw

[tired haven]

Can you just summon him anywhere now?

[wide river]

Yea

Can confirm: I summoned him at world spawn

[tired haven]

Huh, that's news to me. Good to know

[tired haven]

Mmm, from what I see it just doesn't

[woven yarrow]

it's basically kinda outdated with a mechanic which did'nt ever make much sense for the item in the first place

[wide river]

I'm pretty sure it's a relic of when Astral Bulwark and Arcanum of the Void were still parts of it, as well as when Celestial Jewel wasn't an upgrade of Crown Jewel, but I could be wrong.

[woven yarrow]

Yeah, probably but after those were removed it really didn't age well

[serene tendon]

Just how broken is it? How long is it good for?

[frosty trellis]

I fail to see how 50% t.melee damage after you get hit isn't broken tbh

[serene tendon]

Not saying it isn't

[frosty trellis]

It's viable for a long time that's for sure

[serene tendon]

Post-Provi? Post-DoG? Post Exos?

[frosty trellis]

I forget exactly how long but Gauntlet/Warbanner/HOAD isn't uncommon for t.melee and can break shit

[frosty trellis]

Post Exos it probably falls off but I've used it on DoG easily

Yharon is etch but Yharon is already a Not True Melee Friendly Fight

[serene tendon]

Ok

[woven yarrow]

wow, I didn't know this thing would be viable for such a long time but im really not a t meele guy tbh. not at all

[woven yarrow]

maybe Astral Arcanum could be reworked into a magic accessory due to the astral infection already beeing kinda built around magic and rogue class.
And while the latter has enough specific pre ML accessorys magic is kinda lacking in my opinion

[frosty trellis]

Based tbh

[crude geode]

Mhage could definitely use the accessories

Eldritch Soul Artifact becoming a mage accessory when

[frosty trellis]

Plzzzzzzz

Hell, just make the crown jewel line a mage line

[glass arch]

mage needs something more than what it has

(a few misc accessories and all of the damn mana flower sidegrades

[tired haven]

Mage needs mana to become both an impactful mechanic and not a dang handicap before anything can be done about it 🥺

[glass arch]

no matter how many times i see it i still hate the new 🥺

[dense locust]

technically you only need to fix one of those problems

albiet fixing only one requires doing overtime on the other

[glass arch]

or removing mana

[tired haven]

Well, yes but nobody would actually appreciate the fix in that case

crank mana consumption on all weapons to around 200/s
bam, mana is now impactful

[wide river]

If the "Mana Sickness" debuff did more than just reducing damage, then mana might be a better mechanic

Usually if you're able to get Mana Sickness, then you're able to keep applying it repeatedly

[dense locust]

my solution (which I don't think cal should do) would be to make magic weapons stupid as all hell but then make methods of regaining mana both more scarce and more debilitating

[glass arch]

reduces max mana based off duration, longer duration more max reduction maybe

[dense locust]

in other words, I'd be advicating for removing mana potions entirely, which I don't think is within calamities scope

[tired haven]

That reminds me of that one "powerful magic" mod where it triples damage and mana cost

needless to say such a simple premise does not last a long time

[glass arch]

so you can chug potions all you want you're just paying for it with less mana overall

[wide river]

I have a magic rework idea, although it would literally never be able to go through suggestions:
Make all magic weapons have a "charge" mechanic, where charging it for longer increases the power of the spell, but it also makes the mana cost go up proportionally
Think of the Titanium Railgun, but as an entire class style

[glass arch]

so kinda like draedons arsenal charge but affecting mana cost too?

[wide river]

Sorta?
Except the magic charge isn't something that slowly ticks down per use, it's just a "hold to make more powerful" kinda thing

[dense locust]

this is the issue with fixing mage
any rework that actually fixes the problems with mage is to grand scale or otherwise outside of calamities scope
so uhhhh
make more mana directly increase magic damage ig

[small timber]

one way to instantly make mana potion mage drastically weaker is just make mana sickness 10s by default and make the duration applied (per potion) reduced slightly with some notable mana potion upgrades (eg: manaflowers -1s, manaflower upgrades -1.5s, sigil of calamitas -2s, ethereal talisman -2.5s) etc etc

this will very notably fuck over anything that drink mana potion at a fast rate because you start to stack at 10 instead of 0

if you want to make it even worse can have a debuff where "if you drink a new mana potion within 15 seconds the next one inflict even longer mana sickness"

or "mana sickness damage reduction capped at 10 but duration can exceed 10" etc, or "mana sickness increase mana cost proportion to mana sickness duration"

I focused on mana sickness because the main problem mage cant be balanced around mana is because mana potion is so drastically more effective than mana regen that it is not even comparable, therefore cannot be balanced as otherwise no mana potion mage will be fucked over even more.

[bright crag]

That seems like a recipe for disaster in a mod with a massive, classless and free burst damage mechanic

[wide river]

Yea, I had thought so
It might be able to work if either 1. Rippers were removed, or 2. The idea doesn't let rippers be active, but both of those seem like they would be too much effort for a change that probably wouldn't benefit mage too much

[novel belfry]

Honestly, I just don't use mana pots even if I happen to have the mana flower

maybe unless i have to yknow, use last prism-type weapons

[hollow shell]

hello
Was the exclamation on the Astral Arcanum suggestion from before it got edited, or is it staying exclam'd due to "future plans"?

Or some other reason

[wide river]

It was exclaimed due to having poor reasoning, I think
Let me look what the actual reason was

[grim tusk]

I did not exclam that one iirc

[hollow shell]

Looks like it was @drowsy plank ?

[golden sonnet]

it was from before, most of its reasoning was because it was referring to shellphone

[wide river]

Okay, read from here down for context to the exclaim

[golden sonnet]

it was changed to just say demon conch

[drowsy plank]

it was changed to demon conch but after a while i asked what exactly the reason switching hell for desert was, not to mention the suggestion of desert having "beeing a key location" just not being true, and the fact that the desert is usually right next to spawn, i just couldnt find a reason to even do this

plus pylons

[grim tusk]

Arcanum Imo needs a buff, also defense is only broken as hell when you min max it a fuckton

I could see nerfing other easier and less opportunity cost sources of it or clearly broken ones (such as Rampart) but arcanum atm needs help in some way

[drowsy plank]

plus it's like. post-CV

[grim tusk]

The finding reasons to do it come up to the dev team

[drowsy plank]

at least provi rematches give a reason you might possibly be using arcanum

oh

hm

[grim tusk]

I might also find some suggs non-sensical but if they have some reasoning they go into voting and die

[wide river]

I was thinking of suggesting to throw Ursa Sergeant into the accessory, but that felt like a bit too much

[drowsy plank]

well that's the point, i just really didn't see a reason to replace hell with desert

they just said it "is a key location" and didnt elaborate

[grim tusk]

Actually thats true

It could stay ❗ tbh

But desert being a key location like also just makes sense

Such as how jungle is

[drowsy plank]

which i dont really feel like is enough of a reason to switch hell, which, yes i get it is repetitive with hell conch, is still further away and better than a biome which already has a pylon and is right next to spawn, with 0 content post-ML

id argue hell is more important

signus is down there, you need unholy essense for a lot of crafts

what do you use desert for?

[wide river]

I can see how that would be the case. It's a major biome that has unique enemies, a unique music track, different enemies on surface and underground, and a Pylon attached to it

[hollow shell]

Kinda touching on the issue that changing Astral Arcanum to go to any location is redundant because of pylons (and the many teleports 1.4 added and 1.4.4 will reinforce)

It's a product of pre-1.4 Terraria

[drowsy plank]

yes i realize

but at least hell doesn't have one

[hollow shell]

Crag does have a pylon tho

[grim tusk]

Crags pylon

[hollow shell]

Not hell itself indeed, it shares the underground one for some reason

[drowsy plank]

yeah i realize but AA takes you to hell not crags specifically

[hollow shell]

but
yeah

Demon Conch

[drowsy plank]

i know but i can just point to desert pylon too like

it's a zero sum game both are pointless

at least hell has actually relevant ML content tho

[hollow shell]

I figure this suggestion is fine to go through because of that
Both locations already have a teleport method, either one is redundant

I feel like this is more a matter of subjective disagreement over which one is the less redundant option,
rather than something that makes the suggestion invalid

[drowsy plank]

fair enough i guess

[grim tusk]

Oh btw on my opinion on the flesh of infidelity and carnage ray suggs is:
Tiershift flesh, kill carnage ray

[drowsy plank]

i can just let it die in voting if yall really want

[grim tusk]

Yea let it die in voting

[drowsy plank]

there's no way it's passing lmao

[hollow shell]

byeah
At the very least it draws even more attention to Arcanum being obsolete

[drowsy plank]

i mean so does enchiladas

[grim tusk]

Then the next sugg comes up

[wide river]

I'm now just worried about the fact that three suggestions about Arcanum being in a single batch

[grim tusk]

Arcanum needs love

Blazing core needs even more

[frosty trellis]

No it cancels the damage from vuln hen. it's fine

[grim tusk]

It does what

[frosty trellis]

Yep

[dense locust]

Is that the prov drop or is it even more obscure

[grim tusk]

Yes

[frosty trellis]

Astral arcanum cancels out the dot from vuln hex

[hollow shell]

Blazing Core is the Providence ""Expert"" drop yes

[grim tusk]

I remember how everyone didnt knew Spectral veil existed (the only class specific defensive acc ) while the balance thread was screaming to nerf it

[drowsy plank]

lmfao

[grim tusk]

I eventually gave it a smol nerf

[drowsy plank]

where's the shit accessories doc

there are plenty

[grim tusk]

Good for it I guess, needs more reason to use

[grim tusk]

Oh I had one from before I got into beta testing

Outdated as fuck now

[drowsy plank]

lmfao

[wide river]

At least half the accessories in the game are in that doc

[drowsy plank]

i think there's a more recent one

xd

[dense locust]

The issue is that half the accs in them will end up being broken somehow

[hollow shell]

(btw yes I saw this ping, I am thinking about it)

[drowsy plank]

i cant remember if it was with you but i remember mentioning that i wish there were more movement accessories, but i was countered with the fact that late game wings made adding new movement accessories too strong or something

maybe i should just write up another suggestion for this

[frosty trellis]

Ah yes bc an e.scarf, which is already More Than Viable For SCal, with Half the dodge cooldown, which can be stacked with Evasion scarf and another dodge, is very much fair and balanced, especially when dodge iframes scale with stuff like oh idk, Rampart and Godslayer Iframes

[dense locust]

Spec veil is the signus drop right

[wide river]

Yea

[glass arch]

i mean tbf
you dont really ever expect a sentinel drop to be horribly overpowered

so i can see why people didnt know it was busted

[frosty trellis]

Yeah

[dense locust]

Ah, fnuy

[frosty trellis]

Since The Evolution has been memed on forever

But yeah spectrail viel is NR with a dodge that can be stacked with another Extremely Broken Dodge on-top of your normal dodges

For playing stealth rogue

[glass arch]

not just that, iirc the weapons are pretty mid compared to ones surrounding them

[frosty trellis]

For the most part yeah

[grim tusk]

Evolution needs either:
Rework
Tiershifted into post-DoG and made into an astral arcanum upgrade

[frosty trellis]

Rework imo

It doesn't need the weird reflect/dodge effect

[drowsy plank]

would that even fix the problem? tiershifting it i mean

[dense locust]

Storm is storm
Lamp is outclassed
Kunai I dunno I don’t touch rogue
Mirror blade is uhhhhhh

[drowsy plank]

mirror blade is stupid but it got nerfed a little

[frosty trellis]

Bc it gives more reasons on why Statis's Ninja Belt is Kinda Garbo

SPEAKING OF WHICH

PLEASE BUFF NINJA BELT

IT'S BAD

[frosty trellis]

Used to be*
It sucks ass now

[drowsy plank]

damnnnnn

[glass arch]

speaking of ninja
how does ninja armor fare compared to almost literally anything else

[dense locust]

Make the dash even longer

[dense locust]

Mid

[wide river]

Ninja armor is
an armor

[dense locust]

Not the worst thing ever
Would never call it good

[frosty trellis]

Storm is daedalus stormbow but bad
Lamp is fine but it's on par with stabbers for being a boss after which is etch
Kunai is dog viable but you need to be within 8 blocks of dog to hit him so it's etch
Mirror blade is bad

[frosty trellis]

PLEASE
Statis's Ninja Belt is literally MNG + Ampibean Gear

No dash length increase
It's 24 blocks still

Which is shorter than Elysian Aegis, which is supposed to be the more "ultilty/defensive counterpower" With the shorter dash but with a ram

Elysian Aegis being 28

[wide river]

I can confirm that the Storm is bad
I did a test a while back and it was over killtime with Quiver of Nihility and Luminite Arrows

[glass arch]

oh damn xpc's ninja armor sugg got hit with the "No"

[frosty trellis]

Yeah :/

[dense locust]

Oh I thought you meant void sash lol
Yeah buff ninja belt too

[frosty trellis]

Nah void sash is mostly fine

I can personally attest to how Void Sash Is Not Bad At All

I actually prefer it over aegis on SCal/Exos

Having the dodge + 12 block longer dash + climbing claws for scal just suits my fancy

[glass arch]

im way too used to having a ram, it is for this reason that i suck ass until post 2 mechs and cryo

[frosty trellis]

LOL

Nohitting death destroyer as first mech

[glass arch]

actually wait does deep divers dash have a ram

[wide river]

I don't think so

[dense locust]

I can make do with scarf but yeah lol

[glass arch]

if so then OHH BOY time to bust out the old terraria crashing strat of water arena

(i am not joking i have crashed terraria many times trying to make water arenas)

[frosty trellis]

It does not

[glass arch]

[novel belfry]

[frosty trellis]

Me trying to lower my oceans:

(with cheatsheet)

[glass arch]

i did the same thing but in reverse

lets just say mass copy pasting of water blocks is a Very Bad Idea

[cobalt pewter]

accessories are a problem

fix everything grr

[frosty trellis]

Nah there are only a few that need immediate fixes

The Evolution, Statis's Ninja Belt, Blazing Core, Elysian Tracers, Spectrail Veil, Both Scarfs

[dense locust]

Nothings a problem if everyone has acess to it

[wide river]

Simply make them like Hollow Knight charms

[cobalt pewter]

true

overcharm mfs for stacking accs

[glass arch]

overcharms and nohits

[cobalt pewter]

god actually that'd sound kinda fun y as a way to "softcap" accs

[small timber]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/17SUHBgjAjO2BKks2WkgJ7M4kGQFcCEgRTPhfttLid_o/edit?usp=sharing shitty accessory doc

(some might no longer apply eg: Void of Extinction, I kind of havent been maintaining it)

[frosty trellis]

Yeah should remove that and trinket

[dense locust]

Scarfs aren’t THAT dumb
They’re viable on scal for a blatant “I do something no other acc can” reason not a “I am grossly overpowered” reason

[small timber]

also for Arcanum of the Void: I think teleport function is kind of neat, there is surprising amount of people who don't know about pylon (because happiness + shoebox apartments) and teleporters can be hard to gauge for player who never tinker with wiring

however I think the main buff it need is that it need to be "moved to be usable early into the progression"

eg: what is Celestial Jewel have the full TP function of (current) Arcanum and Arcanum straight up can right click select location on map and teleport yourself to it after a channeling delay

[drowsy plank]

Void of Extinction is still kinda mid but it isn't bad

[north oracle]

void of extinction still is mid, but it's not bad

[drowsy plank]

lol

[north oracle]

same braincell

[frosty trellis]

A 30 second dodge is not balanced in any regard

There is a reason dodges are 90 seconds

[glass arch]

at least counter scarf isnt 15 seconds like it used to be

[north oracle]

15 seconds

wait what

[frosty trellis]

Most hardmode bosses have a kt of 3 minutes
That's giving you about 6 dodges per boss
That's 6 extra hits you can take WITHOUT losing HP and WITHOUT losing Adrenaline

[small timber]

it is no longer downgrade yes

at the very least

brimstone flame on hit is not like, too bad

not amazing but at least not straight up useless

[frosty trellis]

Statis's Ninja Belt should be added onto the shitty accessories doc

[north oracle]

it is still often worse than just adding an emblem

[glass arch]

yeah when it was eocs rev drop it had a dodge cd of 15 seconds

[north oracle]

lmao

that's broken af

[frosty trellis]

Beyond broken wtf

[small timber]

ninja belt is not really "shitty" or "below average", just "super average compare to other dashes"

by itself ninja belt is actually incredibly overpowered, if aegis/valor and high ruler dont exist

[frosty trellis]

No it's literally
I've tried to use it
It Does Not Preform Well Or Do It's Job

[north oracle]

high ruler is broken for tanking, rams are ram dashes

void sash is just long cooldown dodge

it is still a dash tho lol

[glass arch]

im not joking when i say it was good enough that i could have used it until fuckin moon lord and probably beyond

[north oracle]

that's absurd, i'd use that on SCal lmao

[cobalt pewter]

it is shitty because every other option on tier is literally better ig

[frosty trellis]

It has literally nothing to do with Valor or High Ruler

It has two problems:
One: Lack of knockback immunity at that stage so you don't have kb immunity
Two: It does not get a dash length increase from MNG so it's literally just a shittier Elysian Aegis bc that has better dash distance with the ram, where MNG to Valor is Longer Dash + Dodge VS Shorter dash but ram and defensive benefits, same with Void Sash VS Asgardian

Give Ninja Belt a dash length increase
Give Some Form Of Knockback Immunity Between Frozen Shield And Rampart

And it will be fine

[woven yarrow]

I deleted mine now myself, I just think reworking it is the way to go and not switching actually useless teleports

might make a suggestion about a rework for the line after Enchilada's got through

[drowsy plank]

i just realized we have like 5 suggestion in voting rn which are the top suggs and they all are like the same fuckin thing asking for better boss animations lmfao

[small timber]

I mean last batch is also 99% cosmetic suggestion

I made like 4-5 suggestions last week with only 1 (?) of them being cosmetic and it is the only one that got enough vote, truly is the state of suggestion voting

[drowsy plank]

better exo deaths
better phase transitions
better YHARON phase transitions

yeah

[small timber]

(I am so tempted to suggest to mod mail that suggestion is divided into 2 categories "cosmetic" and "non-cosmetic" just so non-cosmetic/functional changes suggestion have a chance but I am pretty sure this will just get rejected)

[unreal saffron]

And the polter one is about to get through too

[glass arch]

plus uhhh rebeccas polter sugg whenever it gets into voting is gonna be another """""cosmetic""""" one

[drowsy plank]

right lmao

[glass arch]

god we're turning into snake, nonstop visual suggs

[drowsy plank]

it's worth a shot, but ur prolly right lmao

[small timber]

I mean I can try

with like 0.1% chance of success but my as well

[dense ferry]

Based tbh

[small timber]

since the alternative is that 99.99% of the time cosmetic suggestion take like 90% of the votes

[cobalt pewter]

I mean it's not like there's much to be suggested in terms of boss fights

[drowsy plank]

the other half of the suggestion rn are about boss fights

[cobalt pewter]

visual improvements are easy stars and not that hard to implement*

*depending on the actual effect

[drowsy plank]

this is true

[small timber]

I mean you can make boss fight suggestion, you just have to be really convincing

[glass arch]

and a tracers thing

[cobalt pewter]

only to be stuck in approval hell

[drowsy plank]

so true

[dense ferry]

I think the fact that Terraria modding in general is moving a lot towards some cooler effects and Calamity itself is getting some, everyone wants to jump on the train to suggest these

And well, I am good at tinkering ambience stuff

[cobalt pewter]

Terraria modding is definitely going towards more visually appealing stuff

[small timber]

I mean cosmetic suggestion is not inherently bad, just in this case it just mean anything else dont stand a chance

[cobalt pewter]

ban cosmetic suggs

watch as #suggestions-posting activity becomes 0

[dense ferry]

Damn

[glass arch]

no, xpc will just be like the only person to ever post there

[cobalt pewter]

SO TRUE

[dense ferry]

Byeah I do think I have good ideas for ambience in general

Now it's a matter of whether or not the Devs like said ideas

[glass arch]

stip seemed to like the concept of the polter sugg

[dense ferry]

Yeah, I'm SPECIALLY proud of my Polterghast idea

[drowsy plank]

what if polterghast jumped out of the screen and cried hyperrealistic blood

but fr it's a cool idea

[cobalt pewter]

sadako

[drowsy plank]

funny ghost girl go brrrrrrrrr

[dense ferry]

The fact that Polter has like

[glass arch]

Faith referenc?

[cobalt pewter]

polter-chan jumpscare

[dense ferry]

Nothing related to it ambience wise makes me sad

[glass arch]

SOO TRUE

[dense ferry]

Specially when there is so much potential

Also because the new concept art looks awesome even though I haven't seen it

And there needs to be something as terrifying as that sprite to go with it

And a Moon Lord-esque spawning sequence is absolutely perfect imo

[small timber]

ok the channel suggestion is sent, well just try to bet on the 0.1% chance it get accepted

speaking of cosmetic suggestions that are way too specific to ever be not exclaimed in posting I also had this idea that I probably will never post

[glass arch]

iirc abyss stealth is planned to be more fleshed out at some point

im... not sure when that point is

[golden sonnet]

Focus is real

[cobalt pewter]

maybe after another stealth rework

[errant inlet]

Ok so i have an idea

You know the new cd music draedon teaser?

And you know how there's a really tense buildup

That buildup should be playing before draedon spawns in the mechs

You have like a few seconds to choose

[dense ferry]

The song isn't even ingame yet my man

[small timber]

no it is pointless, just fully implement it when the music is done

[errant inlet]

And once the song drops, the mechs spawn

[small timber]

why tease the build up and then have a completely different song played

[errant inlet]

Once it's released duh

[errant inlet]

??

AFTER its released?

[small timber]

then you can wait until the release to suggest that

[dense ferry]

And what is to say what you said isn't going to be done?

[small timber]

currently with have no ETA for when the music will be released

[errant inlet]

Well

Uh

Damn

[dense ferry]

:p

[drowsy plank]

we already have a buildup track lmao

like yes this is probably just What Is Actually Going To Happen

[dense ferry]

Anyways hype train

[hybrid steeple]

"calamity should uuuuhhhhh be soul crushingly hard because uuuhhhhh its the hard mod"

[strange bough]

yeah idk what moving the spawn point would really accomplish

idk why spawning in the underworld would be "too easy" for specifically calamity

[hybrid steeple]

its because calamity has a reputation as "the hard mod" like dark souls has a reputation as "the hard game"

so obviously we should make it harder

[strange bough]

calamity isnt THAT hard idk why

it just has hard options

[grim tusk]

@feral dirge thats future content bud

Wait til the port

[strange bough]

which honestly still arent hard enough for me sometimes lol

[hybrid steeple]

that too

[strange bough]

not to mention moving it to the surface means reworking some items

to make them good or bad again

[feral dirge]

Lmao. As I was typing I was wondering if it was considered “future content”. I didn’t know if the devs had caught up with vanilla yet

[grim tusk]

Yea tml 1.4.4 aint out

[small timber]

there is also the other approach, which is make calamity underworld for GFB actually dangerous

such as basically make all the underworld swords (old lord's claymore/oathsword etc) drop only post-Skeletron (only for that seed)

[cobalt pewter]

????

incredible

(underworld enemies do not spawn in the middle of remix / gfb hell iirc)

enemies

ENEMIES

[feral dirge]

That’s true too, make it so if you choose to play legendary mode in calamity you should feel tortured 😂

[small timber]

underworld enemies generally are more dangerous than surface enemy yeah

just currently calamity kind of give you a lot of way off-tier item in underworld

notably because surface you can be safe by being behind blocks, underworld you definitely cant with imps and bone serpent

[drowsy plank]

im gonna be honest i think we should just leave it

is it really a bad thing that calamity gives you more options?

gfb early game is like dragging your hand along a cheese grater, im not gonna lose any sleep if someone crafts flame blossom to actually make the early game withstandable

the bosses are gonna be hellish enough (no pun intended)

[random talon]

would suggesting to add achievements violate the suggestion rules?

[drowsy plank]

already planned but no tmod support yet

[random talon]

ok

I thought it was in the realm of possibility

[drowsy plank]

just like funny life bars

[random talon]

bc Infernum did it

[small timber]

it is, but yeah it is pointless to add it right now when it soon will be available

[drowsy plank]

infernum did some funny stuff to do that i believe

[random talon]

good point

[glass arch]

yeah toasty coded the entire death wish system from scratch

[random talon]

what a gigachad

[fossil finch]

This sugg is so awesome we should destroy calamity

[glass arch]

whar

[bright crag]

Yeah
Remix seed's entire structural setup is designed around a bottom -> top progression
It would be easier to just make hell harder

[tired haven]

one more thing to poke at this sub is that remix seed is about (not) digging up, and then by swapping the spawn point we remove the entire premise of it

[bright crag]

We should make touching Crispy Honey blocks crash the game
That'll be challenging 🍿

[glass arch]

^

[tired haven]

(also idk how being forced to live in dirt tunnels is a """challenge""" of any sorts)

[hybrid steeple]

TRUE

[tired haven]

blue screen of death, yippie

[glass arch]

bsod of death on hit but crispsy honey

[tired haven]

Touching crispy honey turns off all PC fans

[bright crag]

Make a crash screen featuring the Lorde unleashing an army of bees on you

[glass arch]

you think my pc has a fan (it probably does but i wouldnt be surprised if it didnt)

[random talon]

well, it's very inconvenient to live in a bunch of tunnels

[tired haven]

Tedium =/= difficulty (fortunately)

[random talon]

yes

[glass arch]

gfb just fuckin sucks imo

like yeah its goofy

[random talon]

I mean that's kind of the point

[glass arch]

but jesus christ the fucking beehives they're everywhere they're in the walls

[random talon]

Bees: i am in your walls

[glass arch]

the beehives ARE the walls

[random talon]

that means the bees are in the walls

[bright crag]

It's nice that I don't need to be reminded of why I won't play gfb outside of testing and maaaaaybe one short and painful pt

[glass arch]

i tried gfb

i quit after 5 queen bees spawned at once

[small timber]

what if, just what if

crispy honey block do the samething as auric ore

[glass arch]

GOOD idea

AMAZING idea, even

get crispily rejected

[small timber]

and the crimson/corruption grass do the samething as jungle spike, aka acid venom

and lava immunity do not work

[bright crag]

It's not hard to see why merely entering the seed with legitimate intent would bring about everlasting suffering and psycological damage

I'll just stick to Remix
My beloved

[fervent orbit]

mmm i love suggestions based on future vanilla updates

also hi

[bright crag]

I feel like that better fits Aerialite

Speaking of which, we should make Aerialite spawn in Hell in Remix/Gfb

[hybrid steeple]

im going in with cheats on to see the funny

other than that

[bright crag]

Have fun mining a hostile ore in the middle of lava, during mid pre-HM

[drowsy plank]

people r like "we need to make hell harder on gfb" my brother in christ all the actual hell content is located on the far ends of hell which are protected by full strength hell enemies anyway

[fervent orbit]

hellstone and aerialite siwtches perhaps?

[drowsy plank]

oh god mining hellstone in gfb sky islands

[fervent orbit]

also will there be more remixed items?

[bright crag]

Yeah, Hellstone in either the Islands, or the Planetoids, or the Mushroom layer

[bright crag]

Nah

[dense locust]

not enough
trippled hp and damage

[fervent orbit]

sadge

[bright crag]

Imagine Planetoids made entirely of Hellstone

[dense locust]

so like ftw but even worse

[bright crag]

So just mining it will fill the world with lava

[dense locust]

gotcha

[bright crag]

It's just an idea btw

[fervent orbit]

arent planetoids just lifted up earth?

[bright crag]

Yes

They're ancient geological formations caused by material being flung into low orbit

The Islands were artificially lifted to the skies

[random pasture]

Make all lava in GFB brimstone lava

[fossil finch]

Gfb anything when the journey player with 3 red potions

[cobalt pewter]

I'm glad I didn't buy into the gfb hype

turns out it's just terraria players being dumbass masochists that they are

no wonder the game never improved

remix, however, is berry good

[golden sonnet]

Gfb is imo a fun thing to do with friends, would never want to do it alone

[cobalt pewter]

if you told me to choose between playing remix 100 times and playing gfb once for 50 million dollars I'll probably choose the former

[dense locust]

gfb really isn't nearly as bad as it seems
progress is slow but that's honestly part of the fun
bosses are bs sometimes but nothing outwardly frustrating (with 2 exceptions)

[golden sonnet]

What are the two exceptions

[dense locust]

mechdusa
ml
wall if you don't cheese the shit out of him

[cobalt pewter]

the first point is precisely why I hate gfb, at least that's one of the reasons

[swift wharf]

i love obnoxious features created with the purpose of being obnoxious 😍

[cobalt pewter]

progression being arbitrarily slowed down because haha fuck you

at least with just remix there's a reason why people would initially approach things slower

but no with gfb your deaths per minute rate is obnoxiously raised up to the possible limit

[cobalt pewter]

another reason is

fuck terraria players honestly

[fervent orbit]

i wonder how mechdusa will work with calamity

do u not get ores until all 3 are dead

[dense locust]

this isn't really true
once you get past the super early game you really shouldn't be dying more than once every 10 minutes or so

[cobalt pewter]

probably

fuck wrong reply

since mechdusa is treated as all mechs

so it's either all or none

[cobalt pewter]

still a fuckin dumb rate but whatever

[fervent orbit]

they still drop the bags though right?

[golden sonnet]

Yes but when you kill parts of mechdusa it counts as killing the individual bosses

[cobalt pewter]

oh yeah that's a thing

[fervent orbit]

yea thats wat i thought

[drowsy plank]

mechdusa is just a fucking mess

[glass arch]

messdusa

[drowsy plank]

so true

[unreal saffron]

@toxic basalt, bro, u got ratio’d and want to change the boss because you cant beat it. Its rng. It exists. Be prepared for it.

[glass arch]

yharon is probably the most patterned boss in calamity

so uh

[toxic basalt]

doesn't change anything

of all the things that should be dependant on RNG, his bullet hells shouldn't be

[glass arch]

yeah adding a bunch of rng in the tightest way possible is a bad idea especially on one of the most patterned bosses

[toxic basalt]

also I don't see you doing what I'm doing

[glass arch]

also yes scrib

its generally a bad idea to immediately insult someone making a suggestion

[unreal saffron]

Good point

Mb

[glass arch]

hell its generally a bad idea to insult someone making a suggestion period

[unreal saffron]

Doesnt stop xp when i make one lol

/joke

Seriously though, the pattern isn’t randomized, just the projectile speed. You need good reaction to successfully beat the boss. If we make the speed have a pattern, people will just wait for slow phase, dash in, and pop rage and adren and kill him. The randomness keeps the fight on a level playing field. As said, he is one of the most patterned bosses, but the random speeds arent in this, maybe for that reason. DaMeister, imo, the bullshit rng part of that wasnt the projectile speed, but the fact that yharon tp’d on to you and instantly popped the attack. That is the bs, not the speed

[glass arch]

teleporting bosses :WhereIsMySalad:

[unreal saffron]

Didn’t even realize it was a no hit run. My bad.

[glass arch]

[frosty trellis]

Actually the bh speed isn't random

It's based on player positioning

[unreal saffron]

Oh

[frosty trellis]

I know this bc I specifically manipulate myself to be going down with the slimy saddle right before the bhs in subphase 7 start so I can consistently get the fast bhs

Since the slow ones suck

[unreal saffron]

So he just had bad positioning?

Huh

[frosty trellis]

It's more just
It's really not easy to be able to tell that at times

I've just fought Yharon over 600 times easy so I've basically just have a strat I go with all the time and that is what gives me the most consistent fast bhs

[toxic basalt]

just why

I was so close to finally being done with him

and I get fucked over by a niche mechanic that I didn't even know existed

he was at 2%

also now I just realised something

@frosty trellis The wiki has no explanation on SP7

it only explains up to SP6

SP7 is merely mentioned in the death changes

[glass arch]

sp7 is in rev changes

[frosty trellis]

????

[glass arch]

outside of rev+ he only has up to sp6

[toxic basalt]

oh god damnit

"Teleports near the player and does the flare dust bullet hell, and waits for 3 seconds before repeating."

that is

what?

"flare dust bullet hell"

[glass arch]

aint there 2 of those

[toxic basalt]

yes

fast and slow

which is not mentioned

[toxic basalt]

Subphase 2's BHs are always the same speed

Subphase 3's BHs are always the same speed

[frosty trellis]

Wot

I can personally attest to how that isn't true but I digress

[toxic basalt]

Subphase 2's are relatively slow while Subphase 3's are always fast

[frosty trellis]

Oh huh yeah

That's

Weird

I swore I've seen fast bhs in sp2 but I digress

Not even the saddle manip can give me fast bhs

[toxic basalt]

Either the BH speed in P2 are random, or based on position, doesn't matter. And the fact that the wiki lacks any statement on this only makes it worse. They need to be made to be more consistent

so again, making Yharon cycle between the two types each time he does a BH attack could help

[small timber]

I will be honest a lot of these are very much based on the fact that "you cannot make a single mistake therefore rng bad" because of (we know it), the main reasoning behind the suggestion being almost purely based on nohit

[frosty trellis]

Okay, so after doing a bit of messing around:
Sp2 BH: Always slow
Sp3 BH: Always fast:
Sp4-6 BH: Always slow
Sp7 BH: Fast/Slow based on player positioning/remaining hp, that one I'm not sure on but I was getting consistent fast for awhile and then consistent slow for awhile

(This is on Rev)

[small timber]

SP7 is extremely consistent, and you have ways to dodge both very consistently, I will just post this again (previously it was posted in mountain of salt)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7dDwvsga8c

[toxic basalt]

ok so then explain to me, how could I have lived in that clip?

I had just dealt with a fast BH, avoided 2 dashes, and was preparing to go up

[small timber]

you lived by never being in the position for that to happen

[small timber]

^

[toxic basalt]

but then he does yet another fast BH right above me

[toxic basalt]

how was I supposed to know he would do another fast BH after the initial one?

I'm not a psychic

I can't read which one he's about to do

[frosty trellis]

(I mean dodge consistently yes, but fast vs slow bh has no consistency which is just kinda etch since it's random and there appears to be no way to manipulate that which is very etch to me when all the other subphases are one or the other consistently)

[small timber]

or you want this can work too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVF4-UOhpwM (yes this is death mode, you can see yharon skipping SP1)

[toxic basalt]

and in a normal setting, this would just be considered a cheap hit

[fervent orbit]

just remove all rng from all bosses

[small timber]

on a normal setting you also dont die in 1 hit

[toxic basalt]

still a cheap hit

[frosty trellis]

It's not necessarily cheap, just don't be right next to Yharon's spawnpoint for when he does his bhs

That's not cheapness that's learning his patterns

[toxic basalt]

I was already moving away from him ffs

he gave me almost no fucking time to react to yet another fast BH when I was also trying to reset my wing time

[small timber]

in a specific setting like nohit which is a self imposed challenge especially with the condition that you are expected to learn the boss to the point that you will not get hit a single time through the course of the fight: if something is avoidable in a pattern you are expected to learn it

in this case yharon SP7 is consistent to the point of boring: in the video you should never fly up before a BH start, because that is exactly where yharon will teleport to hence you cannot dodge efficiently which is already a gigantic mistake that is totally avoidable (because no matter which BH it is you never fly up before a BH start, that is a death sentence)

additionally for SP7 specifically dashing left always works as long as you do not move up, it always give you enough reaction time to dodge the incoming BH no matter it is fast or slow

[toxic basalt]

I just can't push any changes at all

[small timber]

if yharon is complete rng I am fine with it, but the fact is yharon is completely consistent especially SP7, in fact I think even the bullet hell spread is consistent because otherwise it can't explain why the same strategy nearly always work for me outside of my own poor execution

[toxic basalt]

I'm tired, if he had done a slow Bh then, I would of lived

but no

and here you are, trying to justify that apparently him doing that is fine

[frosty trellis]

Sp7 I don't agree is super consistent and that's literally bc getting either slow or fast bhs is random

.... Albeit that's the only thing that isn't consistent with Yharon

[drowsy plank]

im gonna be honest most of your changes have just been complaints about nohitting specific bosses, which... isn't really the biggest concern atm

[toxic basalt]

in a normal setting that still would of been seen as an unfair hit

[hollow ridge]

If its a big enough issue then fair ig

[small timber]

if right now the suggestion is exo or scal instead I will be fine with it, because those two have rng involved which is understandable with the frustration; but the current context is that it is specifically yharon which is a boss which extreme consistency (especially SP7) and the context is that it is for a nohit

[drowsy plank]

there's nothing wrong with these but either way i doubt you're going to get a lot of traction in voting

[small timber]

so tldr to me it is basically your own fault in that case

[hollow ridge]

But if its just every common inconvenience like this one then it kinda gets spammy

Like it might kill you once or twice

[toxic basalt]

I hate this

[hollow ridge]

That hardly warrants you making a sugg in a way ig

[small timber]

that is the only "inconsistency", and both can be dodged in the same way: you assume it is a fast bullet hell (always) and see if the bullet is not coming you change to a strat that you use to dodge slow bullet hell

[toxic basalt]

Death Yharon has constantly sapped the life out of me, I took an extensive break, I come back, and this happens

[small timber]

and the way you dodge both BH have the exact same setup

[frosty trellis]

(The slow/fast bh thing is random which does cause cheapness, and after doing it a bit more in rev, the slow bh density also feel like a bit too much at times and gives very little room, if any, to dodge properly even at a far distance bc if you are at a far distance you will be dashed which makes it more likely to dash into a fireball, or if your close there isn't an opening to go through that's large enough with all the wavy fireballs to not get hit)

(This is what I am figuring out just messing around rn)

[hollow ridge]

So its the positioning that determins the slow or fast BH?

[frosty trellis]

(And getting the same setup to dodge both bhs consistently has Not Really Been Consistent, at least imo, and I generally call myself really good at normal yharon)

[hollow ridge]

That's kinda strange

[frosty trellis]

No it's completely random

[hollow ridge]

Oh

[frosty trellis]

Which is dumb

Imo

[hollow ridge]

Ture tbh

[frosty trellis]

I mean

If you're going to talk about a fight having extreme consistency

[hollow ridge]

But it doesn't really have to be that way

[frosty trellis]

An attack that's entire pattern is purely random doesn't reallly seem consistent

[hollow ridge]

Of course it's not

It's random

[frosty trellis]

Especially when the slow bh is just anything but consistent without perfect positioning imo

[fervent orbit]

new suggestion: "please remove all rng from bosses"

the best suggestion

[hollow ridge]

It could be changed a bit

[frosty trellis]

There is a difference between
RNG from bosses
And an attack that's rng can cause a lot of really dumb shit

One fight that has a completely RNG rotation that has not once felt cheap in any regard for me is Empress

To give an axample

[hollow ridge]

So its like have a more defined animation or something that shows which BH yharon is about to enter in SP7

[frosty trellis]

But her attacks are evenly spread out to make things fair and none of her attacks themselves aren't rng in any regard and are easily dodgable and can be manipulated

[cobalt pewter]

remove bosses

[hollow ridge]

Remove calamity

[royal tapir]

Fun fact: Empress is actually not as random as you think

[hollow ridge]

huh

[fervent orbit]

maybe an audio cue instead since he most likely wont be onscreen

[toxic basalt]

Empress often becomes random during the Day

or on FTW

or both

[hollow ridge]

Yeah that could work actually

[royal tapir]

Empress' randomness is that she can randomly skip over an attack in her vanilla pattern

[hollow ridge]

Its slight lack of randomness is random enough to be random

[frosty trellis]

That would be great
But it doesn't solve the core issue of He is going to bh almost immediately and which is still random
And the audio cues are not going to be obvious in any regard
And also doesn't change the slow bh density being very much a little much

[royal tapir]

That's why only dashes are the attack she can do twice in a row, and only in phase 1

And why the stationary rainbow bolt attack in phase 2 is always followed up by either lance walls or normal rainbow bolts

[frosty trellis]

Interesting

Didn't know that's how she worked

I just found her easy enough and any rng in what moves she used to be fine

[hollow ridge]

Remove Slow BHs

There

Done

[toxic basalt]

Nah, this is what I think

just, reduce the density of them

[frosty trellis]

I wouldn't argue for the latter parts having the slow bhs dead or at the very least tuned down

[frosty trellis]

Yeah

[fervent orbit]

when the slow bh is too slow and becomes harder than the fast bh

[frosty trellis]

The density, on rev since that's what I was testing, was just etch to dodge in any reasonable manner

I could do it

But it was not consistent

[glass arch]

emode mutant moment

[toxic basalt]

i did effectively dodge a slow BH in SP7 by getting yharon to attack before they showed up for me, and then slipped through

[fervent orbit]

wat

oh u mean

the eyes in desperation

[toxic basalt]

although it felt like luck

[glass arch]

yes

[frosty trellis]

Only in subphase 7 though

The other subphases are fine in density outside of mabye SP6 using slightly less but it didn't feel downright unreasonable at times to dodge like SP7 does

[glass arch]

fuck that bh

[toxic basalt]

Yeah, SP6's were fine to avoid

[fervent orbit]

i agree the eyes in desperation are the hardest despite it looking the easiest in a nohit

[fervent orbit]

(easier than the final laser imo)

[toxic basalt]

also the dash override has been a godsend

[bright crag]

I do think having it as random poses an interesting challenge
You have to be ready to dodge whichever comes your way

And it's definitely doable

Because it's just two variations of one attack

I think the issue in the clip is, you chose to grapple right before the BH (which you can time)
It slowed you down considerably
So you weren't prepared for a fast BH, as you should've been

I don't see that as a cheap hit, it just requires better positioning
While you didn't know that a fast BH would come, you knew that one could come

Arguably, the pattern to dodge Slow BHs is much more unfair because its positioning is relatively hard to get right

[frosty trellis]

Yeah the slow bhs need to be less dense

Fast bhs are fine

[bright crag]

Fast are satisfying to dodge

There's a dragon yeeting fireballs at supersonic speeds in all directions

And you're just standing still

[frosty trellis]

Fast are also significantly easier to dodge

[bright crag]

Yeah

[small timber]

ok this took way too long to edit, I definitely will never want to do this this late again

so yeah, slow BHs in fact do have RNG, while fast BH have 0 variance

slow BHs seems to have a "fixed" position where the fireballs will appear in multiple circles, but which part of each "circle" is filled is random (some of the pattern are fixed as can seen from the more concentrated part, but some are random)

• however the "movement" of the fireballs seems to be consistent as can be seen from general pattern especially when it is far away, it doesn't perfectly overlap because my positioning is not perfectly central for all of them

fast BHs have 0 variance and is always consistent (the only variance was how fast I get into the centre of the BHs for recording purpose)

both slow and fast above are taken from at least 4 clips, fast BHs I had 6 clips since it had less positioning variance

[ancient owl]

Heres a funny idea

A trivia channel on the discord

[drowsy plank]

channel ideas would go to the mod mail but i dont even know what that would entail

[ancient owl]

Oh ok cool

[wide river]

Something like the trivia channel in the main Terraria Discord, I'd assume

[drowsy plank]

dont know what that is

[glass arch]

uhhh terramain has a trivia bot? not sure what that would entail for the server as a whole though

basically it asks a question, first person to answer correctly wins... something, then theres a little while between that and the next question iirc

[wide river]

Yea

You get points which can be redeemed for role colors, although that'd be too much of a hassle for here, methinks

[drowsy plank]

sounds like a lot of work to set up and not really the kind of thing this server is for

[ancient owl]

Oh yeah it's a dumb idea just for fun

No reason to implement it

[drowsy plank]

that's fine, and you can certainly ask mods about it, i just feel like we've got a lot on our plates already + someone would need to program a trivia bot so unless someone else steps up to do it or you did it's probably not going to happen

[ancient owl]

I'll ask the people in the yugioh discords I'm in that have a trivia bot how they do it

Maybe I can gain some insight from them and their bot

[drowsy plank]

aight

[golden tulip]

its live in 1.4.4 i heard

[drowsy plank]

cool

i moreso meant planned by cal, so maybe it is live next update, but we don't know if/when cal is gonna do it

[golden tulip]

ye

[drowsy plank]

i remember when we were all speculating about what an ankh shield upgrade line would look like if it was removed from aegis line and i think it'd be neat if transformer was added in to whatever speculative shield upgrade might exist

[wide river]

Why Transformer in particular?

Because of the immunity to Electrified?

[drowsy plank]

it provides a lot of defensive stuff too

but yeah the immunity to a vanilla debuff too

[glass arch]

add ankh shield to rampart

[wide river]

DEAR GOD

[drowsy plank]

💥

[swift wharf]

transformer is already pretty complex ngl

and also suffers from

[glass arch]

i mean
they're both shields
so uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh its still a bad idea

[swift wharf]

electrical debuff

(theres 2 of them

[wide river]

Let me actually take a look and compile all the accessories that give immunity to a debuff, then we can go from there to see which ones would actually make sense to be shoved into an Ankh Shield line

[dense ferry]

You are thinking too small

Endgame accessory that merges Asgardian Aegis and Rampart of Deities

[glass arch]

YES

[dense ferry]

👍

[glass arch]

PERFECT idea

[grim tusk]

(1 of which is the DoT and the other is a stun)

[glass arch]

totally not a bad idea

[swift wharf]

GREAT

[dense ferry]

This surely wouldn't create the strongest accessory in the game

[glass arch]

tbf electrified is one bitch of a debuff

[grim tusk]

NONONONONONONO

[drowsy plank]

dont speak of the devil or else a donor might invite him in

we already have high ruler

[grim tusk]

Me when you cant dono for Post-DoG items + dead

[dense ferry]

Thankfully donor items are dead now 🙏

[drowsy plank]

true

[swift wharf]

the backlog is gone????????

[glass arch]

becoming a cal dev just to make aegis x rampart shadowspec fusion

[grim tusk]

No lmfao

[swift wharf]

🚪 🚶‍♂️

[wide river]

When the accessory removes build variety

[drowsy plank]

wait i know

someone put it on the fandom wiki so remix mod makes it

[swift wharf]

i mean asgardian aegis should fucking die

[drowsy plank]

[dense ferry]

❓

[glass arch]

based idea

[grim tusk]

Return Ambrosial ampoule + honey dew + sponge (it will totally not be op as fuck)

[glass arch]

actually wait that already exists

[swift wharf]

kills provi
gets elysian aegis
kills dog
gets asgardian aegis

uncanny uncanny

[wide river]

So true
Purge the combo accessories

[glass arch]

its called The Verboten One

[swift wharf]

the line could just stop at elysian

which is an INDIRECT upgrade which is BETTER than direct upgrades

[dense ferry]

I'm convinced you guys want half the game to be deleted

[swift wharf]

that is exactly my point

[drowsy plank]

if you want to keep asgardian you could just move it to shadowspec fr

[swift wharf]

SO TRUE

[glass arch]

ender wants the entire thing to be deleted so uhhhhhhh

[drowsy plank]

at least it would be further away and be at a tier more accommodating of its powerlevel

[dense ferry]

https://tenor.com/view/the-voices-meme-cat-gif-23917781

[drowsy plank]

i know polter and the sentinels are technically between provi and dog but uhhhhhhhhhhhhh

yeah

[wide river]

I don't want half the game to be deleted
I just want all the bad stuff to be gone

[glass arch]

so half the game

[wide river]

So true

[drowsy plank]

half the game being deleted would be like neko who wanted to delete half the bosses for being "bad" (did not elaborate)

[dense ferry]

Correction, you want the stuff that can be potentially reworked into cool stuff to be gone already

People can't distinguish bloat from potential rework tbh

[drowsy plank]

ah yes let me just rework crimson flask

[wide river]

Truly a redeemable accessory

[glass arch]

im more on the side of rework rather than remove
some things should be removed though

[dense ferry]

What the fuck is Crimson Flask

[drowsy plank]

ljghvkjmdshojfd

[wide river]

Exactly

[glass arch]

goes into ambrosial ampoule iirc

[drowsy plank]

https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Crimson_Flask

[dense ferry]

Ok no this shit can be gone

[drowsy plank]

[dense ferry]

But I'm talking about the good stuff, not fucking

[drowsy plank]

im actually dying

[dense ferry]

Crimson Flask 😭

[swift wharf]

let's rework every melee broadsword let's rework every primordial earth material let's rework

[drowsy plank]

you FOOL there are TWO HUNDRED CRIMSON FLASKS

[dense ferry]

[swift wharf]

asgardian aegis is elysian but stat stick

godslayer already has a dash we don't need that shit

[drowsy plank]

hey it also gives an immunity to GSI

[dense ferry]

Asgardian Aegis is Elysian but GOOD