suggestions-discussion

[bitter drift]

at least the ore should, it's super random on where and when it spawns, might not damage enemies, and has no way manually activate like let's say boulders

[small timber]

that is something that you can just change I am pretty sure

[bitter drift]

but you were right on the sulfurous team vent

[small timber]

you can simplify it as simple as "make it damage both enemy and player" in the suggestion

also calamity only added 7 arrows because vanilla have 17 arrows covering all major point of progression

[bitter drift]

not in the ore block instead
and even if you changed it so it does do enemies and players, there is still the randomness

[small timber]

calamity added 7 and among them large cover the post-ML section, the only point where there is no arrow upgrade is post-Yharon but that is intended because there is no need for better ammo than vanquisher arrow

[bitter drift]

ok compair it to traps, 7-9 vanilla and 3 for calamity

this is barely if not under half

[small timber]

why is trap being compared to arrow?

they accomplish completely different thing

[bitter drift]

i compare in numbers

[small timber]

yes, what I mean is it is pointless to compare them in numbers

it will be like comparing arrows to how many type of ores calamity added; they are just two completely unrelated thing

[bitter drift]

that's not my logic also calamity did add a fair bunch of ores

[worldly sparrow]

ores serve as a function of progression - arrows do not

different thing

[small timber]

in this case it is number of arrows calamity added to traps, which is like even less related

just keep the reasoning as simple as you want them to setup decoration, dungeon map etc, there is no need to add additional reasoning that do not make sense

[bitter drift]

my logic here is that calamity added fairly little of both arrows and traps which are specific to the mod (6 for arrows, 3 for traps and you can't use the three traps consistently or effectively)
now why did calamity add a small amount of arrows? because vanilla already had a ton of different arrows!
why did calamity add a small amount of traps? because calamity did not care about traps

[ripe owl]

How are traps and arrows related to each other

Traps are environmental things
Arrows are an ammunition type

[fervent orbit]

where auric ore in the suggestion

it fucking launches you

[ripe owl]

You're basically comparing a scrambled egg and a glass of wine

[fervent orbit]

and does 300 damage

[ornate kestrel]

I love that

[ripe owl]

It's not really a trap

[worldly sparrow]

ig at that stage of the game you only go underground for auric ore

[wide river]

I 100% expected this. Neat that it even got that far, though

[bitter drift]

i'm comparing numbers of new arrows and new traps calamity add
both are fairly little, but unlike arrows the trap content is vanilla is also very small

in other words i use arrow to point out how little did traps get

[ripe owl]

Traps are environmental
Arrows are an ammunition

You're comparing the incomparable

[ornate kestrel]

LET'S GO

[fervent orbit]

calamity mod adds 10 scrambled eggs but not 10 glasses of wine

[bitter drift]

i;m comparing numbers how is this incomparable?

[small timber]

you are basically comparing like how many evil biomes vanilla and calamity added to how many type of different bullets calamity added

[fervent orbit]

[ornate kestrel]

That's the better version of my suggestion I had made

[small timber]

they dont relate to each other

at all

[ripe owl]

You're bringing up arrows for traps
It's like bringing up swords for ores

[wide river]

Arrows are very different from traps

[ripe owl]

There's a shitton of swords

Yet not as much ores

Why? Why not?

That's what your comparison looks like

[bitter drift]

i'm bringing up arrows because that's another thing calamity adds fairly little of
calamity adds a lot of everything else (bosses, ores, weapons of every class and so on and so on) but not a lot of arrows and not a lot of traps
and in the case of the arrows there is already a good amount of verity from vanilla unlike with traps

[small timber]

the consideration of adding new arrow is "hmm do we really need a new arrow at this progression, is there any other substitute, if we want to add it what kind of effect should we give to it"

traps are "hey we have this new biome rework I think it will be pretty cool to give it some environmental threats"

[ripe owl]

Traps are environmental
Arrows are an ammunition

[ornate kestrel]

There's enough arrows

[ripe owl]

Your point is pointless as you're comparing the incomparable, again

[bitter drift]

and that doesn't change my argument

calamity still adds a small amount of both

[ripe owl]

Okay let me think of something

Oh yeah, how about spears?

[bitter drift]

if you count both vanilla and calamity yes, the same can not be said for traps

[ripe owl]

There are so few spears

And there are also very few traps

And arrows

[bitter drift]

there is a good amount of spears calamity adds
but most of them are being called lances

[ripe owl]

Calamity definitely needs to add more traps to justify the lack of spears and arrows

And yo-yos

[bitter drift]

also calamity adds a good amount

[ripe owl]

And, oh, how could you forget the lifesteal knives

And repeaters

[ornate kestrel]

Rockets

Boom

[bitter drift]

life steal should not be on every knife, and there are a good amount of knives

[ornate kestrel]

Calamity adds very few

[ripe owl]

And shotguns that are actually shotguns and not chainguns in disguise

And uuuuuuuuuh

[bitter drift]

isn't this still falls under "guns"

[worldly sparrow]

there's literally three

[wide river]

Shotguns are different from guns

[bitter drift]

knives in general? no way

[ripe owl]

Yeah rocket ammunition, Calamity doesn't add any rockets so they definitely should add more traps to justify the lack of rocket type ammunition

[worldly sparrow]

now its 5 that i can think of

woah

[small timber]

if you treat it that way then traps fall under "blocks"

calamity added a very large number of blocks, therefore there is no need to add more traps

[wide river]

Monstrous Knives, Vampire Knives, Empyrean Knives, Illustrious Knives

[ripe owl]

I just felt like I was going through a fever dream honestly

[bitter drift]

at that point i would say calamity should add more rockets and still refer to the arrows

[ornate kestrel]

There's not a lot of shortswords

[ripe owl]

Because it felt this surreal

[ripe owl]

SO TRUE!

Calamity should add more traps because there are very few shortswords!

[bitter drift]

can't the leviathan teeth and jaws of oblivion also count as knives?

[wide river]

Look where having a lot of shortswords got us

[small timber]

at this point just post your suggestion yes, and if people find your reasoning is lacking they will just exclaim it
since obviously this is not going anywhere

[worldly sparrow]

arrows fall under the class "ammo". calamity adds more than enough ammo so adding more arrows isnt needed

you see your logic?

[ornate kestrel]

LMAO

[ripe owl]

That's different, that's a rogue thing and it doesn't have lifesteal

[wide river]

They're teeth, anyway

Not knives

[ornate kestrel]

Rogue has a lifesteal accessory, so everything is lifesteal

[bitter drift]

but they sure do act like the knives

[fervent orbit]

shotgun spread of sharp objects = copy of vampire knives clearly

[fervent orbit]

and a bow and a gun and a rocket launcher all function the same

u shoot one thing

[worldly sparrow]

they miss the defining feature of the knives - lifesteal

[ripe owl]

Every weapon is a ranged weapon that either used ammo or doesn't

[wide river]

So true

[bitter drift]

dude have you compared the Jaws of oblivions and the other knives weapon it's the same the only different is life steal

[fervent orbit]

ahem

[wide river]

The attack style may be the same, but the knives are classified by lifesteal and being melee

[small timber]

@drowsy plank but yeah at this point probably have to step in since this is like, going nowhere basically

[worldly sparrow]

life steal is a defining feature of the class of weapon

[bitter drift]

which i don't think should be a difacto trait of knifes (life steal)

[fervent orbit]

but it is

[ripe owl]

There are no other knives that don't lifesteal

[worldly sparrow]

life steal is a trait, not defacto

[wide river]

What do you suppose would be better? Removing the lifesteal, giving everything else lifesteal, making the knives otherwise not unique... None of it is better

[bitter drift]

there are no other knives in general, it's just one fucking line of weaponry (vampire into Empyrean into illustrious)

[ripe owl]

You've contradicted yourself here

[fervent orbit]

monstrous

[worldly sparrow]

monstrous knives calling

[fervent orbit]

[ripe owl]

Didn't you say that "Jaws of Oblivion" are knives?

[bitter drift]

oh ok ya i did contradict myself here
guess i got a bit of comment overload here

[ripe owl]

A
NY
WAY

I think we should get back to the point

[random pasture]

What are we even arguing about at this point

I'm lost

[glass arch]

what in the god damn did i come in to

[ripe owl]

Comparing an environmental block and an ammunition time is pointless because those are different things

[drowsy plank]

hey gamers i just woke up wtf happened

[worldly sparrow]

uhh

[small timber]

tldr is "because calamity added 7 arrows and only 3 traps there should be more traps"

[worldly sparrow]

well

[ripe owl]

It all began with adir comparing very few traps Calamity adds to very few arrows Calamity adds

Then I went on a whole rant about "there are also very few of this and this and this"

[bitter drift]

sure, i compared the sheer number of different arrows and different traps (both vanilla, calamity added and both combined) to deduce that traps really needed more traps

[glass arch]

doesnt cal add an arrow for almost every bullet type it has

[ripe owl]

And the whole channel is suddenly a shithole

[worldly sparrow]

yup

[bitter drift]

is this line of logic clear to everyone?

[small timber]

calamity only added 7 arrows because there is no need for more arrows

[ripe owl]

Fuck, no, that's not how it works

[small timber]

you have viable arrows at all progression already

[worldly sparrow]

its clear that they are different functions and are not comparable

[ripe owl]

You should compare arrows to bullets, not traps of all things

[bitter drift]

cal added more bullets then arrows a lot more bullets then arrows

[worldly sparrow]

one is required to shoot a bow

[small timber]

likewise calamity added 3 traps because there is no need for more traps, they have 3 for 3 different custom biome already

[worldly sparrow]

the other is idk

[drowsy plank]

what happened to doze's that one was fine

[small timber]

when they add traps it likely will be tied to brimstone crag, even sunken sea etc

pointlessly adding more traps is pointless

[bitter drift]

i'm NOT talking about FUNCTION!
i'm talking about the numbers of these things added

[ripe owl]

Probably deleted after adir renewed his sugg

[fervent orbit]

this isnt about dozes

[worldly sparrow]

function determines the numbers one thing needs

theres a reason calamity adds ores post-ml

[small timber]

because it serve as an environmental threat rather than "I need to fulfill certain quota to have certain number of traps"

[worldly sparrow]

its because they're a function of progression

[drowsy plank]

sad! it was much better

[ripe owl]

Facts

[small timber]

like we keep saying

[glass arch]

be completely honest here, who actually uses traps instead of one bucket of lava

[small timber]

just keep the reasoning as simple as "I want to access these traps calamity already made but is unobtainable"

instead of going through the trouble of arguing how there is not enough traps

[ripe owl]

Anyway I still think we should wrap this

[drowsy plank]

anyway im flagging this bc somehow the reasoning just keeps getting worse and tbh we're prolly gonna be able to place things like sulph vents with rubblemaker in 1.4.4 lol

[ripe owl]

Probably

[small timber]

yeah sulph vent feels like a rubblemaker function

[ripe owl]

This sugg is just like Onyx Excavator a few months ago

[glass arch]

if we cant then we can suggest that when we get there

[drowsy plank]

p much yeah

[ripe owl]

No wait

[small timber]

lab turret not so much but I heard they are adding something (0 spoiler given)

[ripe owl]

This sugg is just "add new traps lmao lol"

[fervent orbit]

why suggest more traps and not suggest craftable, player usable versions of the existing traps

[small timber]

which is what I was saying yeah

[bitter drift]

i suggested both!

[ripe owl]

That's not fax that's a whole ass printer

[small timber]

the suggestion just keep getting off track on itself

[ripe owl]

And you should suggest only one

[random pasture]

True

[fervent orbit]

ok let me rephrase that then

[bitter drift]

if people actually read it to the fullest

[fervent orbit]

JUST

JUST

[small timber]

why would you suggest both, 2 different things in 1 suggestion

[fervent orbit]

its all you need

[worldly sparrow]

and alas

the ❗ of doom

[ripe owl]

Aight yall deal with this yourself, Imma go have my 8 hours of interrupted in the middle of the night sleep

[glass arch]

have fun

[ripe owl]

[ripe owl]

I certainly will

[drowsy plank]

i think the funniest part of this suggestion is that yeah the "traps" in the abyss dont even hurt enemies so besides aesthetics there's almost no reason to be able to obtain them

[small timber]

I think part of the suggestion wants to make it so these craftable version of unobtainable traps will be able to damage both players and enemies, but it is getting so off track at this point I am not even sure anymore

[drowsy plank]

yeah part of the reason im flagging is reasoning is so rambling i feel like it loses itself so i cant even tell why this should happen

[wide river]

I expect this to not go well

[small timber]

@wide river 👍
one day it will actually get implemented

[random pasture]

Ehhh I mean

I don't see an issue with it beyond being somewhat vague (also yeah this was already supposed to happen smile)

[wide river]

If it's got a 👍 from the devs, I see no reason to resuggest this

I suppose your suggestion already got implemented because the recipe did get reworked

What with the Rover Drive, Tenebris, Depth Cells, and Lumenyl being removed from it

[small timber]

last time number of votes was surprisingly high so my as well try again

[golden sonnet]

I personally think knockback immunity is incredibly overrated, and don't ever use it until it just happens to be combined with a dash. It would be nice to have it for free with like a potion or something, but I really don't think it's needed

[half imp]

knockback immunity is so incredibly strong for some bosses

twins, skeletron prime, moon lord are some major ones

[small timber]

for 90% of the bosses the fact that you just don't get "thrown off movement" can already do a lot, because it make sure you can continue to dodge the next hit

[glass arch]

moon lord with no kb immunity is HELL

[small timber]

not just useful for when you will get chain hit (eg: skeletron head spin)

[fervent orbit]

deific should have kb immunity

[golden sonnet]

I normally do all the mechs with KB and have like no problems, moon lord I wouldn't know because it's already included in the dash at that point

[glass arch]

ah yes we should add more trash to the dumpster fire

[small timber]

ML without kb immunity is get hit once by phantasmal eye you die

[half imp]

yeah but that's where's it's the biggest

[wide river]

When the necklace gives you immunity to being pushed back somehow

[fervent orbit]

i meant rampart

my point still stands

[small timber]

rampart already have kb immune

[fervent orbit]

(there is no point)

it does?

[small timber]

yes

[fervent orbit]

fuck it does

[small timber]

why do you think it is the best tank accessory in the game

[fervent orbit]

uhh

[wide river]

It's a shield what do you think

[fervent orbit]

make rampart earlier

[small timber]

because it does everything

[wide river]

Dear god no

[small timber]

rampart post-ML lets go

[half imp]

rampart isn't necessarily the best tank accessory tbh

it's easily top 2

[small timber]

the only other one that can compare is draedon heart

[half imp]

only draedon heart has any competition

yea

[small timber]

which is like, post-exo which make it worse

[half imp]

heart is way stronger for spaced hits

[small timber]

main thing is just post-exo, power-wise draedon heart is stronger

[glass arch]

rampart is better just because its available earlier

[half imp]

while rampart is better for chain hits

[small timber]

if rampart is post-scal and draedon heart is post-exo then draedon heart definitely stronger
but turns out rampart is post-DoG so

"let me get my iframe to dodge 1/5 of every scal bullet hell and 1/2 of yharon fire balls everytime I get hit"

I just realise my suggestion included "buff Solar Armor" but oh well it was an old suggestion, pre 1.4 even

[half imp]

buff solar armor :)

[fervent orbit]

no

[frosty trellis]

PLEASE NO

[golden sonnet]

it's worse than beetle offensively, surely that means it should be buffed

[drowsy plank]

buff solar armor by removing the dash

[worldly sparrow]

also please dont remove ball & chain, my fingers shake so much and i dash on accident, not the best thing to do while fighting infernum dog (4/5 of my health is gone)

[fervent orbit]

dash override?

[worldly sparrow]

i cant be bothered to learn a keybind (because of muscle memory)

but yes

[fervent orbit]

well thats a you problem

[wide river]

The point risen was to just set the key to something you wouldn't use if you're prone to accidentally dashing

[fervent orbit]

also ball and chain and dash override do the same thing anyway

[wide river]

I'm confident that it's dying in voting, however, based on past results

[golden sonnet]

you could always just do the visibility toggle

[worldly sparrow]

yeah but now i cant even dash on purpose

[fervent orbit]

In previous versions of the mod, the ability to dash with certain accessories was tied to the visibility of that accessory, where the dash was enabled if visibility was on and disabled if visibility was off. The Ball and Chain replaced this system due to players complaining about their characters' desired appearance being affected.

[wide river]

That was the very reason that the Ball and Chain was added, to prevent visibility toggles from determining dashes

[fervent orbit]

u remove dash override from controls

unless ur in mp, it pauses the game

[worldly sparrow]

i dont even know what a dash override is

[fervent orbit]

so its even better than doing favouriting on ball and chain

[fervent orbit]

then why tf r u complaining about it

[glass arch]

thats why you have vanity slots

[wide river]

Dash Double Tap Override
It's a keybind added in a recent update that allows you to set dashing to a keybind instead of double tapping left or right

[fervent orbit]

it disables double click dashes, and requires u to press a button to dash

so literally just ball and chain but better

[golden sonnet]

really? just like, put literally anything in the vanity slot next to it

[worldly sparrow]

???

[fervent orbit]

🤷

[golden sonnet]

I was there when it was added, but still feels weird

[wide river]

Is my suggestion really this much of an argument causer?

[worldly sparrow]

yeah

[wide river]

I can ping a mod to remove it from voting, if you really want

[worldly sparrow]

idc

[golden sonnet]

no, I like it

[fervent orbit]

no its good

[worldly sparrow]

because i know it probably wont get implemented

[fervent orbit]

this guy is just complaining about nothing

[wide river]

It's 100% not getting implemented.

[dense ferry]

Demons have annoyed me enough.

[wide river]

Demons are annoying in vanilla
Calamity makes them far worse

[dense ferry]

The fact that they can shoot insanely fast projectiles from off screen is just stupid

[crude geode]

Disagree purely on opinion, Byeah this is valid.

[wide river]

The Voodoo Demon spawns being massively increased doesn't help either

So if you want to kill them to be safe, you have a high chance of spawning the Wall of Flesh in doing so

[dense ferry]

And the inconsistency of their shooting doesn't help either, sometimes they shoot you on sight endlessly and sometimes they just do nothing

[wide river]

The only part that might be a bit iffy is the Death Mode argument, as that difficulty is intended to be hard

[dense ferry]

They are just really frustrating to deal with specially when half the time you are fighting them they aren't even on screen, they are just fucking blasting you with Demon Scythes from off screen

[wide river]

But if the suggestion is intended to be toning them down in Death Mode, it'll be fine

[dense ferry]

Yeah that's what I'm asking

Because like, yeah, it's supposed to be difficult

But getting sniped and losing 1/5 of your HP because a motherfucker decided to attack you off screen with a projectile that has infinite speed isn't difficult

[wide river]

Yeah, that's just unfair

[dense ferry]

Tho I think they can't accelerate infinitely

Still enough to be basically unreactable

[wide river]

I can't confirm, the wiki has little information on changes to Demons

[dense ferry]

I legit just know they are coming because my minions go attack something and I get ready for some Demon Scythe to come to my ass

[swift wharf]

demon scythes will now go through walls

[dense ferry]

The Death of God's Will

[wide river]

If that's the case they better make them go slower

[swift wharf]

they are now EXTREMELY slow

[golden sonnet]

Make them home and go through blocks like the ones WoF shoots

[swift wharf]

have fun dodging a barrage of slowmoving scythes from both sides

: )

[hollow ridge]

And make an incredibly loud sound for added effect

[wide river]

They just become that one Snowdrake attack from Undertale and be like "Dodge this"

[dense ferry]

Honestly if they just make so Demons can't shoot the Scythes from off screen and have an actual, consistent cooldown between each barrage then it's already perfectly fine

Because as it is currently these enemies are just 🤢

[wide river]

I think the shooting formula is something like
"If CanSeePlayer = Yes then fire DemonScytheProjectile"
"If CanSeePlayer = No then use Demon AI"
The problem is the CanSeePlayer variable is incredibly easy to break and half the time it just thinks it = yes

[dense ferry]

Vanilla Code Moment

[wide river]

🍝

[swift wharf]

rework demons

[dense ferry]

Delete Demons

[wide river]

Delete Spiked Slimes
I hate them so much

[swift wharf]

byea there are many ways to fix them

[dense ferry]

Knowing Terraria that will somehow make so DoG teleporting crashes the game

[swift wharf]

dog teleports but doesn't disappear

reaches entity cap in 3 seconds and then it crashes

[wide river]

Slightly changing the lava flow speed will cause Moon Lord to never spawn
Vanilla coding!

[golden sonnet]

I love Lava slime IL update

[drowsy plank]

@spring valve okay; 1. this seems more like a #1042197406776827914 kind of thing, 2. Solar Flare IS broken right now, but not because of any of the things you said, but because of it's melee speed, which post-ML sets lack, 3. I don't understand how reducing the DR but giving the dash iframes fixes... literally any of the problems you're presenting

this is both misinformed in terms of the stats, and seems completely lost on how to actually fix the set at all

[spring valve]

Oh, I didn't realize there was a difference between balance suggestions and regular suggestions, I suggested a change to Blood Pact there earlier and it seemed pretty well received.

[golden sonnet]

adding to what Cognitive said, pretty sure terragon and bloodflare are currently better defensively, so it's definitely not the dmg reduction. Solar is just a more offensive option than the defensive ones, similar to how beetle mail is better offensively than most Melee armors late into Post ML

[spring valve]

If you want me to post a video of tanking hits between solar flare and it's alternatives, solar flare far outlasts it's counterparts.

[golden sonnet]

beetle mail being the best offensive set until auric/demonshade

[spring valve]

to the point where I am literally taking nearly double the hits with solar flare than I am with other sets.

[drowsy plank]

sure, i feel like something else is probably going on here

[spring valve]

Really? What do you think could be causing that

The only thing I'm swapping out is the sets.

[drowsy plank]

i dont know that's why i wanted to see it

you only have calamity on right

also the dash already provides iframes

[spring valve]

I suppose not? I'll DM you my mod list.

[golden sonnet]

It doesn't really, try using solar flare + asguards against folly, you take damage almost 100% of the time, taking solar off makes it so can easily asguards trhough folly every time

[drowsy plank]

it does

im not saying it's a good amount of iframes but

within the code it does provide 12 iframes

you can check the wiki about this

[golden sonnet]

it is listed to have the same amount of asguards, but has been repeatedly reported to still make you take damage

[drowsy plank]

maybe you could buff them but saying you have non is weird

[golden sonnet]

although this is probably a bug

[drowsy plank]

so it's a bug

[spring valve]

Oh it's a bug

[drowsy plank]

yeah

[spring valve]

huh

I just thought it was a feature of the set to make the DR value it gave worth it.

[drowsy plank]

no that

would be weird

cal used to nerf the DR before vanilla did it anyway

what i can only assume is something cause the cal IL editing to break so its only giving 4 frames again

[spring valve]

Yes but the DR value Solar Flare Armor gives ignores their logarithmic function.

[drowsy plank]

instead of 12

[spring valve]

So it just adds onto it rather than actually playing a part in that.

You can tell because it doesn't change the stat meter at all to equip it.

[golden sonnet]

yeah, solar armor DR is multiplicative for some reason

[spring valve]

But yeah like I was saying

the DR on solar flare armor is the biggest part of it, at least for me, stacking melee speed is really nice for DPS but it really doesn't end up mattering when I'm taking at best 50 damage a hit from the harder to dodge projectiles from Polterghast.

I'm dealing consistent enough DPS anyways

[grave zinc]

@small timber - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Buff Crystal Assassin Armor In Some Way]

It has officially been implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[wide river]

YOOOOOO

After all this time, our cries were finally heard

[drowsy plank]

real

oh shit uh

ok cool there aren't any other active crystal assassin suggestions rn

[frosty trellis]

(Not true, solar is arguably better than godslayer even defensively, let alone offensively bc melee speed)

(32% DR, high defense, good damage and melee speed does that to a mofo)

(It's just slightly worse Auric Tesla)

[golden sonnet]

I knew it was much better offensively, but I was under the impression bloodflare+ was better defensively, thanks for the correction/info

[frosty trellis]

Yeah I've personally used it and the DR from the shield makes it incredibly dumb

The only downside to it's defensive nature is the solar flare dash overrides any other dash which is annoying which is why you should never use it over godslayer on Yharon to keep aegis ram byeah

[golden sonnet]

RIP high ruler

[frosty trellis]

SOTHR is used for the ADR which makes it really fucking stupid

[spring valve]

To be fair, I also use Bloodflare vs Old Duke because you need the dash contact damage immunity during that too.

[blazing kettle]

why are there ao many suggs recently talking about traps

[drowsy plank]

idk

[grim tusk]

Spoiler: we literally reverted its nerfs

[novel belfry]

GOOD

[drowsy plank]

LOL

that's one way to "buff" it

[random pasture]

Tbf

The nerf was

Literally completely unnecessary

When calamity also buffed other armors to be objectively better

Even without the nerf

[spring valve]

Huh

For whatever reason I thought the suggestions voting would be adapted to what we discussed about it rather than just taking my previous message, I guess I should've edited it to include what we discussed.

Well whatever, if this one doesn't go through I'll send a modified suggestion sometime later this month.

[wide river]

For future reference, the process of suggestions moving from posting to voting works something like this:
First, the bot checks for any ❗ or 🗜️ reactions. If there is one, the bot doesn't move the suggestion. If there isn't, then the next step begins.
Once a suggestion reaches voting, it simply copies the text in the message, and says who it's by. It doesn't give a link to it because of how suggestions work, so people can't see the suggestion in posting after it reaches voting.
Once it's in the top 20% of suggestions, it heads to the devs. If it's not, then nothing happens, and it just sits forever in voting

Rather unfortunate that the stuff that we talked about before won't be seen by most people, but there's nothing we can do now

[spring valve]

That's alright, again, I just make a very refined suggestion later on.

I'll wait to see whether or not this one goes through or not first.

[wide river]

Yea, of course. Just making sure you knew

[frosty trellis]

@hollow shell Scam link

[hollow shell]

Brav got it thank you Brav

Also wew it seems our link filter isn't uhh working

[wide river]

Counter Strike links seem to be plaguing Discord recently, I've seen this happen in a different server as well

[hollow shell]

They were the first type of mass scam spam I saw on this platform

Free Nitro followed
And then the (porn) server invites followed, and stayed

[wide river]

Fortunately a lot of people are starting to avoid them, but then there's the people that just click any and all links that they see
...for whatever reason.

[small timber]

Abit late but I am pretty sure Solar Armor still give 12% dr, just there and completely not mentioned in the set bonus

AND it also have a 32% adr shield that take 3 hits of damage

[crude geode]

If you do that, you kinda get what you deserve

[small timber]

AND it also give 6 life regen, 2 on each individual armor pieces

AND a dash that I am very sure have short iframe on it (at the vey least at somr point)

AND the only post-ML melee armor with melee speed

AND disregarding melee speed, its offensivr stat (damage and crit) straight up is more than tarragon

[half imp]

YES

YESSAS

[half imp]

30% but yes

well

30% then 20% then 10%

depending on charge

Solar Dash has no iframes except on ram, where it has 12 (same as valor)

[half imp]

Damage stats being better than tarragon is normal for lunar armor

every single one out damages tarragon

[small timber]

Wait I just remember can you check

[swift wharf]

tbf this is kind of a tarragon issue

actually a pre-dog armor issue

[small timber]

Is it changed to 32% total, with 20% adr shield and 12% damage reduction naturally, 3 charges on the shield/dash but no matter the charges you always get 20% adr shield

I remember they rework to something like this

[grim tusk]

Tarragon at least makes up with mega stupid setbonuses

And more defensive use (but quite minor)

[fervent orbit]

ok i think i should post my scal arena sugg now

unless someone else wants to add anything

before i post

(the like infernum wont be put in obv, it was just a little funni joke, a haha if you please, for shade)

[dense ferry]

Yeah post that

[ornate kestrel]

That makes sense

They could make it a magic barrier

Of brimflame

Maybe

[glass arch]

like infernum

[small timber]

not just for "aesthetic", it will have actual performance function too

currently combined with the shader if you do not have additional setup the barrier block can look invisible to the player in the midst of fight which can cause them to run out of space constantly

[drowsy plank]

💥

[fervent orbit]

wat would be funny is if i put in a secret code in the suggestion which spells out

"like infernum"

[half imp]

summonner tarragon in shambles

oh heck meant to remove ping rip

Summonner tarragon does have over double stardust defense though

[small timber]

doze, if possible can you check this?

yeah summoner make sense, ranger kinda (super high damage stealth vs high defense), rogue is nearly always an upgrade

[half imp]

Cal changed solar shield DR?

[small timber]

melee and mage are almost universally downgrade

[half imp]

bc in vanilla its

[small timber]

no, vanilla change

[half imp]

30/20/10

iirc

[small timber]

in 1.4.4 or 1.4 I forgot (probably 1.4 since it was a while ago)

originally it was that and then they decided "yo solar armor is too weak lets buff it"

[half imp]

oh

It was 1.4

[small timber]

yeah

[half imp]

anyway the 20% is the only ADR iirc

the 12% is effected by Dr scaling

[small timber]

ok so that is still the case, was wondering if 20% if just pure DR bonus

[half imp]

I'm not certain

but I think it's adr

[small timber]

I remember beetle works differently?

[half imp]

I can't check rn

[small timber]

it is not exactly ADR, it reduce damage taken post-mitigation

[half imp]

I think beetle is 10/20/30 ADR but once again not certain

[hollow shell]

obligatory mention that it was in our plans to improve the look of the SCal arena, to at the very least make it multiple blocks thick and give it a more interesting design

iirc it was in our "plans for 1.5 that didn't make it into 1.5" future update plans, alongside Exo Armor and Demonshade helmets

[small timber]

rather than ADR which reduce pre-mitigation damage by % (hence making defense more effective)

soon™️

[half imp]

ADR is all post mitigation I thought

but I could be wrong

[small timber]

shield of the high ruler is pre-mitigation

[half imp]

I haven't looked into it much

[hollow shell]

I thought the term was SDR

[small timber]

I always am confused what ADR actually is so I didn't really use that word extensively, seems like yeah I am wrong (right) about that

ok so there is more variant to ADR / DR

[half imp]

ADR is anything that reduces damage taken that's not the player.endurance stat

(by a percentage)

[hollow shell]

S standing for "Separate" and it's when something reduces your damage taken by a percent that doesn't go into the DR stat

yes exactly

[half imp]

ADR for alternative DR

is what wiki has iirc

[hollow shell]

I know for a fact the wiki at least had "Separate" as the term

[half imp]

yea it's currently alternative

idk about the past

[hollow shell]

wack

[half imp]

I've only been playing since August

[small timber]

iirc bettle works by reducing post-mitigation damage, eg: 100 damage 40 defense (20 damage block), = 80 damage taken, a 50% beetle reduce it to 40
Shield of the High Ruler is reduce pre-mitigation damage, eg: 100 damage 40 defense (20 damage block), 50% high ruler, it straight up reduce 100 -> 50 damage and then subtract 20 defense = 30 damage taken

iirc at least from last time I tested it

[wide river]

I thought the A standed for "active", don't ask where I got that from

[small timber]

not sure solar, I assume same as beetle

[half imp]

I could try and look later

[fervent orbit]

[small timber]

@worn pike the suggestion should be "readd", at some point that is a thing

[hollow shell]

I dunno of that's worth letsfuckinggo-ing over
considering... it's just another thing added to the Soon ™️ pile

[polar pine]

don't this be fixed after 1.4.4

[fervent orbit]

soon

[polar pine]

because shimmer

[fervent orbit]

:c

[half imp]

@worn pike beetle recipe was removed

In 2.0.2.1

[wide river]

Wasn't this removed due to anticipation for 1.4.4?

[half imp]

Its only turtle now

[small timber]

no they removed it in anticipation of 1.4.4

which, 1.4.4 havent happen yet

but in general I just don't like the fact that they removed it, it don't make sense to me

[half imp]

yeah but the recipe is still gone

[small timber]

most new player will not even be aware of shimmer's existence

[worn pike]

?

[half imp]

what version are you on?

[worn pike]

Most recent ofc

[polar pine]

if they play vanilla first they should

[half imp]

Did 2.0.2.2/2.0.2.3 re-add it?

because it WAS gone for sure

[polar pine]

how many people do you think would go through an entire vanilla playthrough without finding shimmer

[small timber]

there are return player, and there are player who don't look at changelog and will easily miss it

[half imp]

I think it's fine

[small timber]

because shimmer pre-ML only exist in a specific part of world underground (at the edge of world too), and most people leave PT after ML

[half imp]

although really

If the recipe exists

[polar pine]

I don't think it really matters that much

[half imp]

it should be chloro into turtle

[glass arch]

that recipe for beetle gone on the wiki

[worn pike]

I think its fine, however i feel like it would be a good feature

[wide river]

Vanilla item recipes page says nothing about it, if it's still there the page is outdated

[polar pine]

worst case scenario you mine for 20 minutes

[half imp]

yeah I think that's another mod

Or outdated calamity

[glass arch]

so either wiki is wrong or you got outdated cal

[wide river]

Fargo's Mutant mod might do it

[glass arch]

i think fargos has that ye

[wide river]

Unsure

[worn pike]

Lemme see if its still there

[small timber]

yeah the recipe dont exist anymore

[worn pike]

Or rather what its from

[half imp]

yeah

[glass arch]

recipe browser should say which mod adds the recipe (unless thats something wmitf does and not just regular recipe browser)

[worn pike]

Ah ok i appologize

[fervent orbit]

its only for added recipes not changed recipes

[small timber]

so yeah if anything, the suggestion should be based on "readding" and explain why having shimmer fix everything is a bad idea

[wide river]

It says something like "Recipe added by Calamity Mod", yeah

[small timber]

(when many new player will not be aware of its existence)

[polar pine]

it's not the end of the world

[wide river]

I think some people still don't know about 1.4.4, somehow

[half imp]

issue is

[polar pine]

if they do

[half imp]

Reversion change suggestion

[small timber]

yes basically

[polar pine]

it's not like shimmer actually locks any game breaking stuff

[golden sonnet]

Honestly, vanilla should add an item like brimstone locus, while in inventory show what putting items in shimmer would give

[polar pine]

they should just add guide support

[small timber]

yes but it basically removed a QOL function that many people might not be aware of

[golden sonnet]

or that

[small timber]

it will be like if they removed hermes boots recipe and somehow make it shimmer tied

[polar pine]

yes but again if they don't know the only consequence is a little bit of minimg

[half imp]

Or just make guide show how to craft an item

[small timber]

most people will just thought it is entirely removed

[half imp]

not just what it makes

[polar pine]

Hermes boots is a completely different comparison

because that's like an important acc

[small timber]

hermes boots recipe sorry, not accessory

[glass arch]

vanilla guide is just bad ngl

[polar pine]

I guess but my point is the consequences for not knowing are not that high

it feels unnecessary

[small timber]

it feels unnecessary to remove the recipe when it is the go to and more intuitive way for most people

[polar pine]

it's already removed

[small timber]

rather than knowing shimmer, decrafting and recrafting it, for most people "upgrade chlorophyte into beetle/shroomite/spectre" is much more intuitive

[small timber]

which is why I said it shouldn't be removed in the first place

[polar pine]

fair enough

[glass arch]

i think its fine for it to be gone

[small timber]

because at first glance people will be disincentivized from crafting chlorophyte armor (again)

[glass arch]

cal isnt super friendly to people who dont at least somewhat know their way around vanilla

[drowsy plank]

reversion and also inaccurate now so just gonna do that

[small timber]

yeah reversion is the main reason I only posted it in balance suggestion

[worn pike]

Yeah thats what im saying, i dont think its absolutely vital but i think those two (i mean beetle kinda makes sense) its a direct sidegrade. ANd if you think about it choro armor recipe probably no longer exists due to cholro armor already being in the recipe (IIRC turtle is craftable with chloro) and even if it wasnt the other two are direct upgrades to chloro bars as ingredients

[glass arch]

turtle isnt craftable with chloro armor in cal anymore

[small timber]

yes

[drowsy plank]

i personally do want them back but rules be rules and this violates them atm so ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[small timber]

(they used the exact same amount of bar), but yeah reversion suggestion

not much can be done (unless the reversion rule is changed at some point)

[glass arch]

i doubt it would be changed

if something (such as the evil islands) were removed im guessing the channel would be flooded with suggestions to re add them (as if it already wouldnt be)

[ornate kestrel]

I don't use the evil islands

[small timber]

what alternative is evil island now, beside the HM seed (which is another super unintuitive and hidden solution)

I am sure the alt biome chest will have to be added in, what I mean is is there any way to get opposite evil biome pre-HM?

[worn pike]

well were the other two ever a thing?

[small timber]

beetle, shroomite, spectre all (had) crafting recipe with chlorophyte

all 3 are now removed

[wide river]

The reversion rule is hard to change, as putting it as being "after enough time has passed" would make people allowed to suggest Malice Mode readditions, and putting it as "if it was a good feature" would be heavily opinion-based

[worn pike]

Ah, sorry. didnt know the other two had it.

[small timber]

personally I don't think it warrant a tooltip but yeah the suggestion itself don't have problem

[ornate kestrel]

Meh

I just feel like it'd help clear things up for some people

[swift wharf]

hopefully it will have support when it gets ported

[ornate kestrel]

Hopefully

[wide river]

Considering there was a thing added to tell people that Malice was removed, I think its fine
I know the Malice thing is getting removed but that's because it's been a long time since then

[ornate kestrel]

There's still people who don't know that custom stuff isn't supported yet

So it works

[fervent orbit]

hey xpc are you cool

[wide river]

You're on a roll today

[fervent orbit]

does xpc mind pings?

[small timber]

it fine

[fervent orbit]

oh ok

[north oracle]

[fervent orbit]

xpc are you cool

fluffy are you also cool

answer the question

[north oracle]

i'm exceedingly cool

[fervent orbit]

||and say yes or this will be awkward||

[small timber]

it better not be deez nuts joke
it is not deez nuts joke

[fervent orbit]

its not

its a place for cool people

do you wanna join

[wide river]

I can confirm it's not a deez nuts joke

[small timber]

yeah I dont mind ping

[fervent orbit]

UHHH

[golden sonnet]

dang, all the cool kids in one place

[fervent orbit]

oh wait thats the notes section not the dm section

[ornate kestrel]

Wait

What

I just got back

[distant gyro]

https://github.com/tModLoader/tModLoader/pull/2909

1.4.4 port actually adds support for this

[ornate kestrel]

Hmmm

[wide river]

Sooo.... Already planned, sorta?

[ornate kestrel]

Should I remove my suggestion or what?

[distant gyro]

yes for inevitability reasons

[ornate kestrel]

Got it

Thanks

[ripe owl]

Aquarian W

[drowsy plank]

oh hey they have a homestuck name

funny

[cold cosmos]

I would pay actual money to never have to see or hear the word homestuck ever again

[glass arch]

homestuck

[drowsy plank]

i would post the time i draw calamitas as a witch of blood if it didnt break the rules lol

[glass arch]

whar

[cold cosmos]

You have made an enemy today

[glass arch]

cool

[drowsy plank]

homestuck reference

[north oracle]

wait that sounds awesome

[drowsy plank]

i mean it's all public on the scal daily blog lol

[north oracle]

i don't know what that is

[drowsy plank]

prolly shouldnt self advertise so guess ill dm

[half imp]

seems like the trap suggestion isn't getting unexclaimed/fixed

so tomorrow i might post my own

[drowsy plank]

sounds good

[north oracle]

Didn't you already have one that he complained about you writing because you "copied his idea"?

[small timber]

once it leave posting they cant complain anymore

[half imp]

^

[small timber]

but yeah doze I think you can repost your trap suggestion now

since both are out of posting

[half imp]

yeah once i go get my phone i will

(it's pinned to my clipboard on it)

[golden tulip]

your own configurable lab turret would be pretty funny to set up around your house

shoot enemies or other players

[half imp]

yea

even if it's not configurable and shoots you too

would be funny

[golden tulip]

yea
until you go insane by the sfx

[errant bobcat]

Is it just me or is it really annoying to get rid of the turrets, ice rod and very careful block placement is the only way to get rid of them bc they do so much damage early game

[half imp]

ice rod isn't early game

[errant bobcat]

Ye ik

But for late game it useful for it

[drowsy plank]

i just walk into them lategame lmfao

[fervent orbit]

me when i run in with a bone pickaxe:

[small timber]

if they are easy to get rid of my as well just remove them completely
like the fact that their projectile are blockable by blocks is already a gigantic nerf in the first place

and ya they kind of just stop dealing damage outside of preboss

[drowsy plank]

they're hard to balance

[small timber]

can you still destroy turret with copper pickaxe?

[fervent orbit]

yes

[small timber]

so yeah: dirt block + copper pickaxe

[fervent orbit]

but more pickaxe power + pickaxe speed = faster destruction

so a bone pickaxe is the fastest way to destroy a turret pre boss without any skips

[small timber]

imo if they want to balance it make the turret use "skill shots" attack instead of a default projectile attack
like significantly increase their damage but decrease fire rate, and telegraph their attacks

and of course it should have wall piercing if that is the case

[drowsy plank]

add like a beam with a charge that fires for a set duration through blocks or something but has a long cooldown

[small timber]

that way it is more about dodging instead of blocking it with dirts

yeah basically something like that

[fervent orbit]

now all you need is a grappling hook to easily defeat them

[small timber]

well turns out a grappling hook is more than dirt block + copper pickaxe

[fervent orbit]

true

[small timber]

and actually having to dodge is better than just dirt block line of sight

[fervent orbit]

and requires more effort

[small timber]

and you also tend to have to deal with more than 1 turret at a time so it might not be as simple without mobility item like double jump

[fervent orbit]

anyways ima play mario and luigi

[small timber]

can even give them a force field that you have to destroy with direct damage first so that they dont immediately become a joke once you close in

but yeah tldr is current turrets just kind of suck

[drowsy plank]

infernum lab turrets

[small timber]

not as in too annoying, but more of "they just dont really do anything"

[drowsy plank]

but fr it'd be cool if they had the beam in like rev and the shield in death

[small timber]

what did infernum do to turrets

[drowsy plank]

nothing i was making a joke

that you made them so complex they felt like an infernum feature

[small timber]

unironically the idea above definitely sound like something they would had done (if they liked the idea)

[half imp]

lab turrets doing nearly nothing is fine imo

[drowsy plank]

i think making these difficulty respective changes would work p well tho

[half imp]

they just chilling

[drowsy plank]

also true lol

[half imp]

they're just atmosphere idk

[small timber]

I mean why would draedon install a security system that is completely useless

[drowsy plank]

i mean it'd stop zombies

[half imp]

it's not useless, that would obliterate any prehardmode enemy

[drowsy plank]

yeah

[half imp]

and all labs exist prehardmode so

[small timber]

but yeah, on top of the idea above can also have "sniper turret" that focus on deterring outside invader as they start attacking as soon as you are close to the lab area rather than have to be really close/at the edge/inside

by having telegraphed wall piercing sniper shot

[drowsy plank]

this becomes a lot more obvious when looking at the onyx lab tbh

[small timber]

what is the first use of lab? in terms of progression

post-DS have lab crafts?

[half imp]

post hive

[drowsy plank]

sunken

i think

[half imp]

aerialite for the sunken items

[small timber]

then yeah I think it will be fine if they are more complicated and harder to deal with

since worse case scenario they come back at post-Evil1 and likely have the gear to deal with it

[half imp]

I don't think it matters much

tbh

[drowsy plank]

oh oh wait you could put the harder turrets in the more complex labs

[small timber]

I think it is fine for it to be very hard (even too hard) preboss

[half imp]

I do like this idea

[small timber]

I mean the main lab

for the "side lab" then yeah, those can use less powerful turrets

[half imp]

I don't know how I feel about wall piercing turrets though

[drowsy plank]

leave the rando ones basically untouched

[half imp]

At least, not piercing outside the lab

[drowsy plank]

i mean they'd have a big telegraph

and be very slow

[small timber]

tldr is their attack are basically titanium railgun

if I want to compare it to a calamity item

[half imp]

but alos

Pre boss has diving gear in ice

that's very useful pre boss

[small timber]

which they dont have to get

[half imp]

Its incredibly useful

for sulphur chests

[small timber]

and it is definitely "can be dealt with" preboss

just require more effort

[drowsy plank]

i wouldnt say diving is required til post skele anyway, you can flub it with the scourge crest for a while

[small timber]

if you are skilled enough chances are just with a grappling hook and maybe 1 double jump you can dodge your way through it

[half imp]

I don't feel like the lab turrets are supposed to be a major threat at all is the thing

[small timber]

you dont have to destroy the turret, just do a snatch and run can work also

[half imp]

they're just a basic security system to keep out the fauna

[drowsy plank]

i dont disagree, but i think it could be a litle interesting to see what the devs think at least if xpc does suggest it

[small timber]

for gameplay perspective it just means they dont really do anything

let me see how much vote last time I tried to suggest it got

[half imp]

simply give current turrets reverse healing

:)

[drowsy plank]

they add flavor to draedon to show he's willing to obliterate anything that even attempts to touch his stuff

[small timber]

108, not good not bad

[desert briar]

"obliterate" they do like 40 damage per hit with most pre hardmode armors

[small timber]

it also just, make more sense that a security system actually does something

[half imp]

ok but what they should actually do is give each lab a unique turret

they all have pulse turrets rn

[desert briar]

Not exactly obliterating anything that isn't a green slime

[half imp]

They do at least 80

[small timber]

I mean I am not suggesting a unique turret for each lab, it was just brainstorming

[half imp]

often more

it would make sense to have 5/6 turrets though

[small timber]

but I do like the titanium railgun/telegraph attack for all turrets idea though (except side lab/small lab/abandoned lab)

[half imp]

also it'd be funny for hell lab to have like

gauss nuke turrets

OH

hell lab also has pre boss/earlygame use

5 hellstone bars and a hellforge

and Jetstream Sam I guess but that's a terrible argument

[small timber]

the point of those is not to really to say "make it impossible to get in early", but more "it takes effort and skill to get in"

[half imp]

I'd argue it still takes effort to get in now

[small timber]

which is why they are telegraphed so that if you are skilled you definitely can dodge them

[half imp]

consider the fact we've all played this game for hundreds of hours

[drowsy plank]

alt turret types at least would be cool i agree

[frosty trellis]

Problem with that is that hellstone bars still need demon pick/reaver shark

And finding a hellforge isn't even that hard

(Also 5 hellstone bars gives you 0 useful recipes)

[small timber]

it takes effort but the effort is dirt block + copper pickaxe and move carefully

[half imp]

there's 5 more in crags

that makes 10 which is useful

[frosty trellis]

Ic fair

[half imp]

And 5 is enough for voodoo demon voodoo doll

[frosty trellis]

(Doesn't the turrets require a gold/plat pick)

[small timber]

no every pt I did it with copper

[half imp]

I don't think so

[small timber]

unless they changed it

[frosty trellis]

Oh huh

[drowsy plank]

it used to require gold+

[half imp]

I played 3 days ago and used silver

[drowsy plank]

they changed it to no req

[small timber]

so yeah it really is dirt block + copper pickaxe

[frosty trellis]

Damn yeah that's just

Ouch

[half imp]

I think that's fine because

Consider a new player who doesn't know what they're getting into

they're 100% gonna die at least once to turrets unless they don't find lab till way later

advanced turret AI should only be on death imo

[small timber]

which is not changed with the idea I propose above

all it does it just change turret attack into a harder to dodge version, it do not inherently make it so it require much more to get into the lab

[half imp]

I think that advanced AI might be too much early on for a lot of players

[small timber]

(other than the ability to dodge, and the gear to assist with that like grappling hook)

[half imp]

Death mode having better turret AI would be sick though

[small timber]

I don't think so, if anything it give the idea that "fuck this place is heavily guarded, there definitely is SOMETHING valuable here, I will come back to here later"

[half imp]

It also just feels a bit non immersive to me to be shot a laser beam through a wall for finding a structure

[small timber]

and as stated, if the attacks are properly telegraphed and have a proper cooldown, it also reward for player skill because you might even be able to get in without any gear

[drowsy plank]

i still agree with doze that while id love new turret AI, it should definetly be difficulty locked

it would be perfect for death because that's explictly for people looking for a challenge

[half imp]

Yea

[drowsy plank]

and if you're blind playing rev you probably dont even know that your blocks can block turrets, or maybe you just rush in, like i think adv turrets in death is perfect

[small timber]

if that is the agreeable solution then yeah I will proceed with that idea, time to cook

(though tbh I dont really think it will be like "too challenging", just "more challenging")

[drowsy plank]

god yeah we need more death enemy AI changes fr

[polar pine]

death turrets walk around and attack you

[small timber]

"why have turrets guard your place when you can just have giant death robots instead"
Dreadong

[polar pine]

real

[half imp]

make the turrets be the real final boss

if you kill every turret it summons xp2147483647 - turret

[frosty trellis]

(And boss changes bc half the death mode boss changes I cannot tell wtf changed)

[drowsy plank]

lmao

[dusty pagoda]

sand skelemental sounds like it would be a fun thing to add

[drowsy plank]

what

what does that even mean

[hollow ridge]

Almost a SIS 👽

I feel like an would be better for SIS

If you pronounce each letter

[novel belfry]

the only death change i can find is making Wall of Flesh an awful boss

[frosty trellis]

I mean Yharon, SCal and DoG have Very Obvious Changes
But other than that not a lot.

[glass arch]

doesnt cryo start in a different subphase same as yharon

[hushed topaz]

Destroyer:

[dusty pagoda]

a skeleton combined with a sand elemental a sand skelemental

[drowsy plank]

ah

[worldly sparrow]

meanwhile the exo mechs dont have a single change

its literally the same fight as revengance

[glass arch]

yep

makes sense as to why i crush them whenever i play on death

[worldly sparrow]

i should make a suggestion or something to fix that

keyword should

im bad at making suggestions

lmao the death mode wiki page

[drowsy plank]

i fixed it

made a little fuck up and mirrored the changes from the page itself which i then proceeded to remove

[worldly sparrow]

oh ok

[drowsy plank]

it now mirrors their boss pages

[north oracle]

Speaking of boss changes in death

Levi exists, so does skeletron, KS is a ton bigger, Provi has significantly shorter cool-downs between cocoon attacks, Destroyer is fucking massive

Voids energies are either more dense or just move faster, I’m not certain

Apart from cryo, yharon, SCal, and dog which were mentioned earlier I can’t think of any more obvious ones

[frosty trellis]

Ah right the horror I want to forget known as death destroyer

[north oracle]

Yeah
He has quite a large change

[frosty trellis]

Death Dest is The Single Worst death mode boss in the mod bar none

[glass arch]

voids death changes are Can always fire the ring of 12 dark energy orbs. Moves quicker as its health decreases. Summons more Dark Energies. Dark Energies become immune to knockback at 90% HP, and are more aggressive.

[north oracle]

Right, so there’s more of them

[glass arch]

so denser and faster

[frosty trellis]

Dark energies could take kb at all????

[north oracle]

And they move faster

[glass arch]

apparently

[north oracle]

So fuck me

[novel belfry]

The only reason why Death WoF isn't on Death Dest's tier is purely down to the fact that arenas actually make him easier

[north oracle]

I’ve never found death WoF too bad honestly

[frosty trellis]

I've never seen the dark energies take kb on rev at all

[north oracle]

Same lol

[novel belfry]

(i hate death wof)

[frosty trellis]

Same I never found death WoF bad

Master-Death for the record

[worldly sparrow]

same

[novel belfry]

you're fucking good at the game

[north oracle]

Not one I would’ve picked as a bad one XD

[frosty trellis]

I mean you're not wrong but I wasn't nearly the player I am now when I did my first md run

[glass arch]

death wof is a pretty large jump in difficulty from rev wof iirc but maybe rev wof is undertuned

[drowsy plank]

flagging that bc exos do have death changes

[glass arch]

whar

[drowsy plank]

was just trying to do some wiki magic and made it look weird

[frosty trellis]

Problem with WoF in general is that outside the homing scythes if you have a platform at mouth level and lighting boots or better you will never get hit

[north oracle]

Wait they do

[drowsy plank]

Ares: Further increased projectile velocity of all four weapons. Tesla Cannon, Plasma Cannon, and Gauss Nuke become even more predictive. Tesla Spheres connect from an even further distance. Gauss Nuke tracks the player more closely. Exo Overload Beams are telegraphed for less time.
Artemis/Apollo: Both of them have faster attacks, more predictiveness, and take less time to perform special attacks. Increased the number of lasers fired by Artemis during the Laser Shotgun Barrage attack, and it rotates the Exothermal Beam more. Apollo's rockets have greater homing speed and stronger anti-clump push.
Thanatos: Moves faster, slow down at a closer distance to the player, can have more segments open at once, takes less damage from open segments, and fires lasers with greater predictiveness. Increased the number of lasers resulting from the Gamma Disintegration Beam.

[glass arch]

damn never mind then

[north oracle]

So

Speed

[drowsy plank]

they're more accurate too

more projectiles as well

they spin more

[frosty trellis]

Just too easy to just not get hit until the scythes spawn in and then nuke him with adren

[glass arch]

also i never realized t hanos beam shot additional lasers

[north oracle]

Same lmao

[novel belfry]

those homing scythes

WHY DO THEY EXIST

[north oracle]

To stop people from first try nohitting him every single time

[frosty trellis]

I did But I'm also the person who fought Exos with a post SCal enchantment that made the fight take 1:23:57 so I know their attacks and all their nuisances by heart

[frosty trellis]

Puts a platform at eye level, chips him down a bit to stall for adren and then nuke him and not get hit

[novel belfry]

yknow... you could solve the "easy nohit" problem

itself, instead of homing scythes

[frosty trellis]

The homing scythes suck

[north oracle]

No

Get fucked

Homing scythes bitch

[glass arch]

wof is just a bad boss tbh

[north oracle]

Yeah

[frosty trellis]

I think the thing that would stop WoF from being a joke with a halfway decent arena is to give the mouth a laser as well so you actually have to dodge instead of just run then pray the homing scythes don't use the most bullshit physics ever

[random pasture]

I mean

[drowsy plank]

wof when he causes nothing but problems

and is lame

[glass arch]

everyone and their mother cheeses it with beenades in vanilla and modded wof is either bullshittingly hard or piss easy

[random pasture]

Not wrong but in vanilla he is also a pretty big joke

[north oracle]

Infernum inspiration

[novel belfry]

NO

[frosty trellis]

Infernum WoF is actually interesting

[random pasture]

WOF cheese is real

[north oracle]

Make him shoot big lasers instead of little lasers

[frosty trellis]

Infernum WoF is one of the few Infernum fights I actually enjoyed

[drowsy plank]

wof when his arena sucks and therefore his fight has to suck or else it would require ungodly terraforming

[random pasture]

that is also an issue

[novel belfry]

I HATE THE FOUR EYEBALL LASERS
I HATE THE FOUR EYEBALL LASERS
I HATE THE FOUR EYEBALL LASERS

[frosty trellis]

Skill issue tbh

[north oracle]

It was one I didn’t like as much tbh, but it was far far better than rev/death

[north oracle]

[frosty trellis]

Everything after skele until guardians is piss easy

[random pasture]

WOF requires you to basically dig out a massive platform bridge

[drowsy plank]

can you go straight up and straight back down? then you've won

[glass arch]

people dont just bomb out half of the underworld or use obsidian instabridges?

[north oracle]

Yeah, there’s a bit of an issue there

[random pasture]

Or cheese him and kill him in 30 seconds

[north oracle]

Basically everything needs a buff

[novel belfry]

i used to not do that

[frosty trellis]

Some people are madmen

(I used to not and was able to do the fight normally just fine for awhile but I got tired of bullshit)

[glass arch]

bugged golem would like your number (yes ik its a bug but its still hilarious)

[drowsy plank]

having to use instabridges are lame and points to a bigger issue that people are using as a bandaid
and bombing most of hell is also what i do but that dont mean it dont suck ass to do

[frosty trellis]

Okay
Everything but empress after she got reworked
Empress post rework is fine byeah everything else is piss easy

[north oracle]

I didn’t do that
Then I nohit him once in Elysium and had no clue why I’d never done it before

[novel belfry]

You'd think it'd be standard, but lotta us don't actually think of that immediately, and thus wonder why the fuck is WoF so fucking overtuned

[north oracle]

True
Empress is awesome

[swift wharf]

dom is reworking wof

[frosty trellis]

Really? Interesting

[north oracle]

Oh, nice

[frosty trellis]

I quite like infernum WoF

One of the few good infernum fights

[north oracle]

The laser wall attack tho

[swift wharf]

it's one of the bosses he doesn't like

[frosty trellis]

The laser walls attack is very fun

[drowsy plank]

i hope this is paired with more hell generation reworking too

[novel belfry]

I mean, I know that he's reworking a whole lotta bosses for that final major infernum update

[frosty trellis]

Yeah which is thank god

[drowsy plank]

rn at least you have crag which does a decent job

[frosty trellis]

Rework Signus he needs to be less bullshit

[north oracle]

Not when you try to nohit him
Or do anything other than fight him like a normal person

[drowsy plank]

bullshit as in easy or hard

[frosty trellis]

And exo Twins. Fuck inf exo twins

[north oracle]

Yeah

[glass arch]

hes reworking wof qs guardians prov jared and probably more

[north oracle]

I agree with that

[frosty trellis]

Unable to tell what the fuck is going on after 20+ attempts

[drowsy plank]

lmfao

[north oracle]

[drowsy plank]

he's inconsistent

still easy as piss to kill tho

[north oracle]

He is quite inconsistent

[novel belfry]

from the teasers i'm seeing jared is actually going to be a really cool boss

[north oracle]

He was literally the last Infernum boss to get nohit

[drowsy plank]

lmfao

[glass arch]

the super fast knives or whatever have gotten tuned down almost nonstop iirc

[north oracle]

And he’s been made less bullshit now

[glass arch]

the attack where the whole screen goes dark

[north oracle]

Yeah

That’s a well timed dash in the opposite direction to dodge, but if you get the timing wrong you’re fucked

[frosty trellis]

I am normally really, really good with normal cal and even in MD

In infernum,
Guardians are cancer,
Providence is fine after the crystal rain attack died,
Weaver is alright,
CV is okay but weird,
Signus I cannot understand,
Polter I'm still not sure on but the desperation attack can die
OD I didn't even try
DoG is the most boring modded boss in terraria
Yharon is fun
Exos are pure bullshit
SCal's weird arcing shotguns and Sepulture are pure bullshit

[glass arch]

thank fuck for guardians rework

[frosty trellis]

Oh, And every fight and their mother requires a fucking ram

[drowsy plank]

DoG is truly the most boring modded boss no matter what version he's in

[north oracle]

Guardians are getting fixed, Provi is getting entirely reworked, sentinels are just kinda funky, polter desp can get fucked yeah. Who cares about OD anyway, never say that about DoG in Infernumcord and I agree on the last 3

[frosty trellis]

I hate ram required fights, especially when for base cal I use Void Sash on Exos and SCal

[glass arch]

its the one infernum boss hyperiif wont nohit and thats saying a lot considering he nohits inf dog for fun

[swift wharf]

nobody will like dog no matter how rework dog

[drowsy plank]

it's cause he's a worm

[swift wharf]

i can word sentences

[north oracle]

Yea, it’s the only reason hyper isn’t the second to nohit all of inf

[frosty trellis]

At least in base cal he doesn't have quite literally one attack that requires a ram to reasonably dodge

[drowsy plank]

that's how it feels when i fight him in death but maybe im just bad
i just dont enjoy his fight at all

[swift wharf]

if you dislike normal dog you will hate infernum doh

[frosty trellis]

His normal fight is etch but his infernum fight is just really annoying and inconsistent for having literally one attack

[glass arch]

when i nohit (not following the guidelines because its just for fun) dog i relied SO MUCH on melting with the RE guns n such

[drowsy plank]

oh right he has insta kill head in inf right

[frosty trellis]

No

[glass arch]

(this was pre deletion/hydra rework)

[glass arch]

no it just has stupidly high damage

[frosty trellis]

But his head does 1k base damage

[drowsy plank]

ah well that's something

LMAO

[swift wharf]

you can tank
one hit

[frosty trellis]

Pretty much

[swift wharf]

☝️

[frosty trellis]

And if you get clipped you're dead if you get hit by the head

He has three attacks:
Spam dash
Spam dash but uses portals
A laser walk that's boring bc no alternate method to dodge

[novel belfry]

i feel like dog is that one boss that probably deserves a really good rework... but no one has a clue how to actually pull that off

[glass arch]

sometimes you get Skill Issue'd with the portal dashes

hyperiif found a bug with those on 3 separate versions that made dog come from the opposite direction iirc

[north oracle]

and one where he shoots out of the portal and moves at light speed straight through you iirc

[glass arch]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/893729355908399117/1051638463906189332/skill_issue.gif

[north oracle]

should've seen that coming ngl

[glass arch]

hyperiif is insane at inf dog

[north oracle]

him and optrix are both unreasonably cracked at it

[glass arch]

why do i want to see someone who doesnt go in the internet much's reaction to this server

[north oracle]

[glass arch]

i can count on one hand the amount of times hyperiif has nohit inf dog provided i can grow several more fingers

[drowsy plank]

fucking christ

discord giving me a """super reaction""" when im trying to flag a suggestion