suggestions-discussion

[half imp]

simply

buff stats slightly

buff dash a lot

The stats should be worse than cobalt/palladium, but a little better if you consider the free slot

... or honestly

maybe rework the whole armor to be a precursor to reaver mobility

Little combat stats, but boost mobility notably

same could happen to ninja!

that way ninja and assassin have niches that aren't just "we're better than the other armors so use us"

[small timber]

Chances are if they refuese to buff ninja they are not buffing crystal assassin

[half imp]

what did the ninja buff suggestion say again

I'll look it up

The ninja buff felt like it focused on stats

[half imp]

I feel like if you provided an argument focused on providing a niche not based on having stats, but based on a fundamentally different use than other armors, it may be accepted

[small timber]

I didnt want to be specific so that they can take it either way

[half imp]

Looking at crystal again; we do not need an armor stronger than cobalt or palladium as they're plenty strong

[small timber]

But from what I heard from Venus (?) They did suggest something along the line of what you provide/turn into mobility armor but get turnt down

[half imp]

ah

well assassin still has a chance

[small timber]

Which is why I am leaning towards stat change because it is the simplest buff, because chances are if they ditched ninja armor it will be hard for other armor rework/mechanical buff suggestion to get through

[wide river]

Based on the fact that Shade asked why the suggestion should happen, I'd say it might be a less than desirable fix

[half imp]

I think shade was playing devil's advocate

whether or not that's their own opinion

[wide river]

Mm, ok.

[crude geode]

Defense damage is arguably underpowered rn

It’s still a part of it

So like. Don’t have it in there.

[small timber]

@ashen warren suggest the two things you want separately, they are not connected to each other

for the projectile visibility you should suggest to "Make Profaned Guardian projectile more visible" by itself as a suggestion rather than combining both, and provide the example you give (like filter/outline projectile etc)

the 2nd part of defense damage and "500 damage big rock" is not a thing, unless you are playing Master FTW Death Mode or something
the mod is balanced around Expert Revengeance Mode

[errant bobcat]

Me when Defence damage still happens in godmode

[small timber]

yeah profaned guardian have very shit visibility

[drowsy plank]

potion of omniscience when it

[small timber]

especially if you fight it in underworld, it can literally have one of its projectile come from below (if your ground have any lava) and completely mixed together visually

potion of omniscience should not be the sole solution for a problem that can easlily be fixed in a non-bandaidy manner

in this case it is not just "hard to see", it is that some of the attack use literally the same colour as lava which makes it so it is completely invisible

[drowsy plank]

i mean this is a lot like cryo so at least in the meantime

im sure they'll get around to fixing it soon

[small timber]

basically yes

that doesnt make the suggestion invalid

in fact they didnt fix cryogen projectile visibility until 20 suggestions or something got passed

[drowsy plank]

god

i love the suggestion system

[crude geode]

when I like the funny suggestion before it leaves my brain in 5 milliseconds

[halcyon zealot]

maybe Crys AssAss armor change could lean into enhancing the multiclass aspect of the armorset?

[small timber]

@ashen warren oh right before I forget, probably should address Underworld too for Profaned Guardian
because in my experience it is even harder to see than Hallow because it can just mix into lava as mentioned above

if you don't mention it people will just tell you "well you can't see it in Hallow so just fight it in Underworld"

[halcyon zealot]

could be a muted version similar to how gemtech incentivizes weapon swapping

[cobalt pewter]

make Omniscience give outlines to projectiles

[small timber]

yeah seems about right

[quiet kernel]

Future content sugg

[halcyon zealot]

This might be a cool change to both buff the stats and enhance the multiclass feature of the armor @wide river @small timber @half imp @grim tusk

+2 life regen AND +10% crit for 5-8 seconds if a weapon of another class is used.
both bonuses are disabled for 3-5 seconds when hit for more than 1 damage (because it's annoying when a slime touches you)

1. It pays homage to the passives of both Palladium / Cobalt! (just a cool touch lol)
2. Potentially works as a small step up from T1 hm ore armors, but still weaker than T2 ore armors
3. Incentivizes weapon swapping every 5-8 (tbd) seconds, otherwise the armorset is weaker than T1 hm ore sets

I do think leaning into the multiclass aspect is key to making this armor unique, maybe a dodge dash on top of that if it isn't too much
I have slight personal desire to see CA be used, since I use it decently often in Vanilla terraria and like it

[blazing kettle]

future sugg moment?

also that would be hell to balance?

[halcyon zealot]

getfixedboi needs no balance

[small timber]

@restive kraken get fixed boi do not exist yet, this is a future content suggestion which is disallowd

Master FTW is not get fixed boi

[small timber]

I mean sure but yeah it is never gonna happen because specificity

[halcyon zealot]

the unfortunate truth

well then it would always be swapping

and only swapping, maybe forcing high damage slow firerate weapons

that's a good point

yeee I like that

[cobalt pewter]

the suggestion of all time

[halcyon zealot]

I have hope!
and I have already said this before but I will mention again
Gem Tech & Crystal Assassin both are multiclass armors with mineral-like themes

Gems are specific types of crystals that are precious / rare, making gems a tier above crystals, much like how gem tech could be a tier above crystal assassin
It would make sense for CA to craft into Gem Tech armor, even moreso if the previous change was to be implemented!
of course with the permission of the donor @ Lilac (who is pretty active here)

[half imp]

I think that's probably too large of a rework

it probably makes more sense to be mobility focused

[halcyon zealot]

very true

it's pretty ambitious

actually no fuck that
it's literally just adding bonuses if you hit something with a different weapon

it's such an eloquent change

incentivizing multiclass, which is a hella fun playstyle

[half imp]

sure but it's still a huge change

Completely changing it's existing niche

imo it makes more sense to reinforce the existing niche it seems to be targeting

[halcyon zealot]

hmm

what niche is this, the multiclass or the dash?

[half imp]

the niche it has now is being a mobility armor

[halcyon zealot]

cause imo the multiclass is the bigger niche that needs reinforcing to me

[half imp]

It just... Isn't very good at it

It's not really at all multiclass

besides just... Having all helmets in one

it doesn't do anything multiclass specific like forbidden, gem tech, fearmonger do

which are true multiclass armors

[halcyon zealot]

hmm

[half imp]

It's also clearly meant to be the queen slime mirror to ninja armor

like slimy saddle to pillion or slime hook to hook of dissonance

[small timber]

so what you mean is

[halcyon zealot]

it does practically the same as forbidden at least

gives related stats to the classes and have a quirky passive

[small timber]

we should delete the dash from Crystal Assassin Armor and give it 30% movement speed as set bonus instead

that way we can use counter scarf dodge with crystal assassin armor

[halcyon zealot]

huh

[half imp]

30% move speed sucks

especially in hardmode when wings

simply give it 1.5x accel or something stupid

sure but it does almost nothing in cal

once you are flying

move speed barely effects air speed in cal

[cobalt pewter]

remove wings then

[halcyon zealot]

[half imp]

no

It's bc cal had to nerf move speed iirc

they made it broken on accident

but now it doesn't do almost anything to air speed

[ripe owl]

God what's going on in here

Like five minutes ago you were discussing the CrystAss

And now there's like a hundred new messages

[half imp]

still discussing assassin

[ripe owl]

Takes quite some time doesn't it

[half imp]

no make it worse

bc of the cal buff stacking with other stuff

so I believe that it's now worse than it was originally

Please no

that would be worse

earlygame without movement buff is so much worse

[small timber]

did they ever change the movement speed formula?

or they just nerf every movement speed sources to make it harder to stack

because if they havent change the formula this should still apply

TLDR movement speed is not really useless, it is just it have a "breaking point" where it starts to be extremely effective for air speed

but since movement speed stacking is harder now it is way harder to reach said breaking point
(50% MS is default if you have no speed bonus because of the buff)

[half imp]

0% vs 25% move speed with different gear

(frame skip was on, that's why it stutters sometimes but the timescale is the same)

I think this is the best way to really show it

[drowsy plank]

wow

[half imp]

it's really not much on wings

and for boots, the big difference was in accel more than top speed

For the record the tests were:
No gear, walking
Fishron wings, flying
Drew's wings, flying
Celestial Tracers, flying
Celestial Tracers, walking

[halcyon zealot]

woah that's interesting

[half imp]

I could test with higher move speed when I get home next week to check out what XPC said about a breaking point

[small timber]

it is also strange that angel treads seem to have extremely big impact on flight speed eventhough you have the exact same movement speed especially at high movement speed

assuming they havent change formula (can refer to the file I posted above)

[half imp]

treads have a custom run speed threshold that probably has something to do with it

I'll do more research later

[small timber]

(for reference all the test done just fly up and start flying left/right, rather than run and then fly which is what you usually do)

[half imp]

Even if MS is good, it's only real good in extreme amounts it seems

[small timber]

yeah, which is what I meant by it is not "technically" useless
just it is extremely hard to stack that high
(and also exactly why things like ninja armor giving 20% is worthless because you need to get so much more from somewhere else for it to be worthwhile)

[half imp]

which means maybe we should suggest a movement speed rework

make it so like

it's good in low amounts and not busted in high amounts

bc as is without focusing entirely on speed it's kinda crappy

[small timber]

something that will work immediately is like give back the Quick scaling

[half imp]

25% move speed in my video is like, 2 accessories at least of move speed

not counting reforges

[small timber]

4% pre-HM (due to running on ground being more relevant on pre-HM which MS have a bigger impact on)
6% HM
8% post-ML

something like that

[small timber]

does it account for the 50% base movement speed given by cal?
at least according to stat meter it is 50, not a formula change

[half imp]

Yeah , it was technically 50% vs 75%

due to the buff

[small timber]

ok yeah, just to make sure it is not 0 vs 25

[half imp]

yup

[small timber]

let me just slap on 175% MS first before suggesting to revert Quick nerf to make sure the file is still correct

because Quick is currently just useless, it need something

ok 175% MS still apply, posting it (exactly the same)

[hollow shell]

This is a very good and informative video
Legitimately.

No better way to demonstrate the speed differences than to overlay them simultaneously like that

[cobalt pewter]

yeah it looks like an actual legit speed comparison video

[swift wharf]

@sand jewel

[small timber]

@sand jewel a suggestion that wants exactly the samething was just posted yesterday, vote on it instead

[swift wharf]

oh woops

[small timber]

oh there is even one that is passed

[swift wharf]

oh nvm that one has eutrophic glass

[sand jewel]

oh lol

[swift wharf]

it is kinda funny how they add an entire furniture set but no walls for it

[sand jewel]

yeah that's weird lol

they even updated the furniture to specifically use that block

anyway taking mine down since it's a duplicate (also that person knew more than me lol)

[small timber]

(most) of the furnitures/building items completely depend on whether the art server provided the resource anyway

if they make a set of furniture they will add it, it just happens that no one created a wall texture of these theme

[distant gyro]

nah heart is spriting those

[jaunty pasture]

Do you guys think lunarian bow should get a buff ?
For a post-slime god bow it falls insanely weak against WoF and even Archerfish has better damage output, which is post skele

Even it’s gimmick(sliding when it hits a block) is practically useless against WoF so I can’t see any proper usage of this thing

[small timber]

#1042197406776827914

also right now it seems, ok?

[cobalt pewter]

the gimmick I would completely agree on though

I don't see any proper niches in using it

[jaunty pasture]

is this the newest update?

[cobalt pewter]

what you want to shoot to the floor when most of the time your wof arena is with platforms?

[jaunty pasture]

it doesnt have piercing btw

[small timber]

yes, 2.0.2.001 (basically the patch before the newest one, and the newest one is the hotfix one not the big patch) and as far as I know there is no chances made to lunarian bow in the newest patch

[jaunty pasture]

Well if it’s true that’s fair

maybe my build was bad because my experience was that it performed worse than any other option

was also missing wrath & rage but shouldn’t really matter when comparing with other wps

[small timber]

do note that most of these comes from basically perfect arena

so if your arena is like, non-existent for WoF it probably will have an impact because that means an inaccurate/AOE weapon is much better than an accurate/single target high damage weapon

but yeah #1042197406776827914

[jaunty pasture]

thats prob why

ty

[fossil finch]

also i dont think everyone is using both wrath and rage, i do know theyre easy to just buy now but, its still some money youve got to get there

grrrrrr mod potion availability and their consequences on my silly weapon testi

[jaunty pasture]

uhm akstually you could fish in the crimson island

[fossil finch]

theres no water there youd have to create the lake yourself

also not big enough for proper fishign bonuse

eitherway that's a whole other Thing

[jaunty pasture]

well yeah it’s just technically possible

[fossil finch]

we should keep having evil exclusivity discussions it would be very useful and definitely not end up with this channel screaming the same 3 things at everyone it would definitely be a useful expansive conversation

[small timber]

it is extremely easy, just kill a Queen Bee
and then Witch Doctor just starts selling it

[jaunty pasture]

I am not suggesting that you do it but those test runs use optimal equipment

[fossil finch]

what if not every player spends that much time getting money

ofc they dont cost eight trillion platinum but there may be players that dont just use the funny easy money getting ways

of which planetoid mining is already nerfed i mean

[fossil finch]

i personally think that's not exactly a good thing

Optimal Equipment and Playing Strategy is what a tester would use, it makes sense right? you're balancing against optimal

[small timber]

it is not big money

if you are at the point where you kill Queen Bee you will have way more than enough money

potion only starts to have their price inflated when you enter Hardmode

[fossil finch]

BUT THE COMMON PERSON DOES NOT
theres almost 2 million calamity players if averaged i am 100% certain people will not be using optimal most of the time
Which is an inherent issue with how balancing is done and its not really fault of anyone
I just think balancing shouldn't be done with only optimal

[small timber]

at pre-HM all of them are very cheap (unless you buy literally everyone, nightglow regen ironskin endurance rage wrath lifeforce heartreach switftness.......) instead of just buying the one you cant craft

[jaunty pasture]

Correct me if I’m wrong but those ar for comparing weapons and not about the actual time right?

[small timber]

those are actual times

[fossil finch]

i generally also don't agree with time testing but that's a bigger issue i cannot fix (as in, i cannot even conceptualize anything to fix it) because it is reasonable to do it this way

but it also makes damage look like the only important part of a weapon eventually which is obviously a preventable slope but i feel calamity fell in it quite a lot of time

[jaunty pasture]

ik just asking if the time alone matters other than comparison between different times

[eternal escarp]

theoretically could also account that if you test with optimal gear, you get lower killtimes than the wanted
but yes i agree with this tbh,.,..,

[small timber]

basically an absolutely "average" weapon is supposed to kill WoF at 2 minute (in Expert Revengeance Mode)
that is the only meaning of the time if you are asking it

[fossil finch]

unless wanted killtimes are done with optimal

XD

so like

[small timber]

funny thing is the setup isnt even supposed to be optimal

[jaunty pasture]

that’s it thx

[small timber]

the setup is supposed to be "you have some damage but mostly defense and mobility"

the only "optimal" thing about it is rage and wrath potion, which as stated you can buy

[fossil finch]

ofc it runs into the issue of time and manpower but ideally balancing would be done with a variety of builds from suboptimal to optimal to get the sense of how real players would really feel with this gear

there's also the problem that testers know what you have to dow hich is kinda completely impossible to fix

[eternal escarp]

or not do boss tests in a vacuum too but in actual playthroughs but thats another thing

[fossil finch]

yes

[fossil finch]

tied to this in some way

players do not fight bosses in perfect arena vacuums where they know exactly what theyre doing most of the time

[small timber]

funnily enough in pt I actually go for even more optimal setup because I don't want to retry bosses, like ever

[fossil finch]

and while one as a tester can try and play suboptimally too ultimately Knowing The Thing hinders your ability to experience what an actual player would

[small timber]

so my pt setup is even more minmaxing than when I am just trying weapons

so the sensible thing will be just "use not very optimal setup", which in this case they are pretty much not super optimal

they are optimal in terms of balancing both offense and defense (and mobility), but for damage no you can do way better than the ones being used

[fossil finch]

not every tester is god at the game ofc too i want to say but being a tester does mean that youll probably have more expansive knowledge and a better game sense than a lot of players so asasafasfa

crying

when the issue is complex! (like in real life

[small timber]

how hard will it for the player to figure out that ranger emblem boost your ranger damage?

[fossil finch]

not very

[small timber]

and "oh here is a new armor I should probably use it"

[fossil finch]

how hard will it be for a player to figure out the optimal setups for every boss? some time, unless directly asking

those are like

completely different things

because they are just Basic How The Game Works

[small timber]

like I said, you assumed optimal setups are being used

[fossil finch]

i am talking game sense, deep knowledge of what and how a boss will do things

[small timber]

the only one I know is bullshit is WoF because no one wants to bother (as in they use basically perfect arena), for others pretty much all setup are not optimal especially offensively

[fossil finch]

the general knowledge of whether or not a weapon is good also too

a lot of people come to this server simply to ask whether a weapon is good

they can't really tell even if they use it

[small timber]

which is why weapons are done independently by themselves

none of them are with "mixed weapon" or something like that (except Scal because some weapon can't kill hearts whatsoever)

[fossil finch]

i cant speak for everyone but i do tend to use multiple weapons in fights

simply because it's more fun that way imo

i know a couple of friends do too but ofc that doesn't really mean anything

not really something you can parametrize in balance because obviously you are not testing every possible way of playing or combination

[small timber]

which is perfectly fine? what are you arguing against?

[fossil finch]

which again is just

complexity

[small timber]

the point of testing is to get weapon to the point where "it is good"

[fossil finch]

i am not arguing against anything?

[small timber]

so that if you use multiple weapons all of them feel good to play

[fossil finch]

i'm just saying it is very hard for a tester to get the same experience a "normal player" would, which is not something easy to fix and can create its own issues

simply because they are a tester and for that they have to know more about the game in some way than a "normal player"

reminds me of the whole nohitter is adrenaline op thing

[small timber]

which is why weapons are done on an unoptimal setup

[fossil finch]

it was talked about in this channel a lot, the idea that you could think adrenaline is too good because you're very good at dodging while the "normal player" isnt

obviously not really a problem inherent with nohitters just with

being skilled because youve played game for a thousand hours

i mean yes xpc

but ultimately terraria is not just numbers on an excel

you have to play something, even the setup won't completely replicate the experience of a "normal player"

[small timber]

I still don't get what you are arguing against

[fossil finch]

i am not arguing against anything

i am just commenting on issues balance had has or could have

[small timber]

imo weapon testing is a "background/internal work" to get weapons to a stat where it is good for the player to use, it is not supposed to simulate "normal player experience"

[fossil finch]

well yeah

[small timber]

aka it is just attempting to tweak the weapon to a point where normal player feel it is good to use in their playthrough and thats it

[fossil finch]

i mean yea

and for a normal player to have it feel good you'd have to balance it around a normal player experience

this is why player feedback exists

because a dev/tester team aren't normal players

[small timber]

which is why I stated specifically for WoF it is full of shit, and I admit it because of the unreasonable arena that you can't expect from most player

[fossil finch]

again, i am not arguing against testers or anything stupid like that

i am just saying it's a thing that exists

[small timber]

but "spending 8 gold to buy rage and wrath potion from Witch Doctor for easy damage boost" is not something that I will treat as completely out of the way for a normal player to do

[fossil finch]

that's fair

but remember its not just 8 gold

a player will, expectably, fail a couple times at wof

[small timber]

you have a lot of way to get money at that stage

[fossil finch]

that does make it a whole shakier because it's now based on skill level and the current mental state of the player and a wholla bunch of factors you just can't be thkining about because it's unreasonable

[small timber]

you can even just rapid kill king slime if you want

you cannot just assume that if the player fail 1 time they will surely also fail 1000 times more and never improve on anything from all of it

[fossil finch]

im not assuming that???

im just assuming it's more than 8 gold because i think everyone can speak for not really firstrying all the bosses on normal playthrough, even hardened nohitters, it's kinda normal to fail a couple times

eitherway if you say the setup isnt really optimal then its whatever

i don't have a problem with that

[small timber]

yes it is more than 8 gold, lets say they die 20 times, 1 plat 60 gold
is that "a lot"? somewhat
is it an amount that is completely unreasonable at that stage? no

[small timber]

yeah they are purposefully unoptimal especially damage wise (except WoF because everyone used basically perfect arena due to the boss being a WoF)

[cobalt pewter]

holy shit

argument

[bright crag]

The idea is to have an unoptimal setup, although that is hard to achieve of course
We want weapons to kill bosses in the killtime, when using a fairly balanced cocktail of offense and defense
Having that middle parameter makes it easier to balance stuff, since you can usually cater to both pure offense and pure defense in a satisfying way

Of course, testing with more varied setups would be great, but that'd either require even more testing guidelines, or relying on tester intuition
In both cases, a solid amount of people testing

[half imp]

and just needing even like... two tests of a weapon makes it that much harder to do

[small timber]

the moment when beetle and chlorophyte armor
(and plaguebringer, and rogue daedalus armor, and maybe melee mythril and adamantite)

[bright crag]

Mostly longer, but also with the potential for harder

Have fun testing glass cannon

[half imp]

yeah exactly

[small timber]

yharim's crystal doing double damage with chaos stone and drat bow just get nohit level performance on unoptimal setup
(and omega blue armor)

[bright crag]

I agree that we need a more natural approach which considers viability in a playthrough setting would be good
We should consider things like crowd control, exploration, means of obtainment
But to do that, we need to rethink how we test stuff

[small timber]

imo that is really not desperately in need of being adjusted right now (out of boss fight aspect)
since it will naturally be adjusted when things are being balanced on bosses

eg: if an AOE weapon get on time on a pure single target boss chances are it will be viable for all events and crowd control
meanwhile a single target weapon that get on time will be worse against events and crowd control but that is to be expected, and probably do better on single strong target eg: Moon event minibosses due to say accuracy or weapon property (eg: slow firing high damage weapon)

I dont think the current out of boss fight combats are really difficult enough for a need of extensive testing specifically just for them, especially with how lots of stat bloats are being removed or lowered (post-DoG moons, post-ML blood moon etc)

the problem is actually more that there really is no "difficult" combat scenario out of boss fight, the hardest you can get is zerg potion when you are undergeared which you basically bring upon yourself for farm efficiency

[half imp]

there's like

the seasonal moons

That's about it

[fossil finch]

yeah time and manpower are the obvious problems here

[hollow ridge]

Bring back 8 percent quick

✊

I'm pretty sure that was a thing

[bright crag]

It was

[half imp]

quick when somehow it's nearly as bad as arcane rn

at least for most of the game

earlygame quick is fine... but so is arcane

[bright crag]

The movement speed enthusiast in me approves this suggestion
Though I'm not sure if it's a good decision
The current bonuses, although not too big, are good
I think one glaring issue is the lack of post-ML speed accessories, which forces you to spend more slots using technically obsolete gear

[bright crag]

How so?

I've never found Quick a bad modifier, let alone Arcane level

[drowsy plank]

i mean if you watch the vid it show just how little effect ms speed is having atm

[small timber]

I think mainly is just
you can either have Quick in pre-HM to try to outrun bosses by stacking 3-4 other movement speed accessories
or get +20 defense and be near invincible for anything but contact damage

[drowsy plank]

@bronze tendon only reason this doesnt exist yet is lack of rubblemaker from 1.4.4

[half imp]

speed doesn't do much at all to wings

0 vs 25% speed, no other effects

In order:
Walking
Fishron Wings
Drew's Wings
Cel Tracers, Flying
Cel Tracers, Running

that's basically 6 accessories of quick

(also, technically it's 50 vs 75% speed, as the base cal boost exists)

since late game you fly so much, quick is basically pointless late game

it's not AS bad as arcane, but it's easily second worst late game by a huge margin

[wide river]

This could definitely work, but at that point it becomes a balance suggestion
The original suggestion is also kind of a balance suggestion, but I think it's enough of a normal suggestion to stay here

[bright crag]

Yeah, but changing movement speed doesn't only affect wings
You have to consider that ground speed is still very important, and it's not as simple as "let ground speed be that high"
There's Soaring Insignia, which is a solid boost to air mobility, but... that's about it
I agree that players should be allowed to boost aerial movement more, just dunno if this is the right way

[drowsy plank]

you could always just change how it effects wings, i keep hearing angels treads have a really weird effect on wings being a lot stronger than their listed stats should let them be

[half imp]

yeah

I think that reworking the formula is a better way

[half imp]

Me too, when I'm home next week I'll make a more complete comparison

[golden sonnet]

@bronze tendon I believe the devs said they plan to make it placable with the rubble maker from 1.4.4

[drowsy plank]

yeah i already pinged them about that, they don't seem to care tho

[golden sonnet]

Oh, my bad didn't see that

[bronze tendon]

Dont mind me not paying attention.

[bronze tendon]

And that is me not being on Discord.

Thank you for the info, will be a great addition to building.

[drowsy plank]

cool lol

[drowsy plank]

posting this again

hopefully it passes this time

[wide river]

I hope so too

They really are in a weird place right now

[bright crag]

@mint nacelle We did want to add that, but if I'm not mistaken, tMod doesn't currently support it

[hollow shell]

yep this is planned and will be implemented as soon as tModLoader supports it

(It probably could be done now, but it wouldn't be very uhh stable, I'm guessing)

[crude geode]

pretty sure it's already made iirc

[ripe owl]

Good. It's not in the current version of tML, so it can't be added

[hollow shell]

Sprites were made but they were from an exodus'd dev so I don't know if they can/will use them anymore

[ripe owl]

God, it gets harder when your team crumbles

[half imp]

it can be done, I've heard of other mods doing it, but yeah

it's not worth trying without official support

[bright crag]

Oh
Well, I hope they can be used...

Damn, that background looks cool

I think we do plan on having a Crags background at some point

[novel belfry]

can someone embed it here?

[bright crag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/770382072056381480/1081795234477908008/2023-03-04_22-26-58.mp4

[hollow shell]

neat

A shader would be way easier than drawing a whole new background, can at least be done in the meantime

[ornate kestrel]

Make it a crimson shade?

[hollow shell]

indeed

[blazing kettle]

its always the same image with the hp bar suggs

why

[ornate kestrel]

Cause why not

[crude geode]

I am going to stab the next person to mention infernum in suggestion

[deft yew]

maybe it's getting copypasta'd

[bright crag]

The lava isn't crimson anymore tho

[ornate kestrel]

Though fancy is better

[hollow shell]

probably because the hp bar just looks like that

[blazing kettle]

who genuinely uses the bar healthbar anyways

[crude geode]

me

[deft yew]

what for

[bright crag]

You guys have health?

[crude geode]

so true

[ornate kestrel]

Sometimes infernum does it right

[bright crag]

Yeah, Infernum does a lot of things very well

[ornate kestrel]

Sad that it'll only have 1 more big update

[deft yew]

this update in particular is big-and-a-half

much more is being done than was initially planned

[mint nacelle]

ah, alright

[glass arch]

yeah whats it got now, 3 boss reworks plus the abyss and a butload of new attacks

[drowsy plank]

in 1.4.4 (presumably the update tmod is gonna add support for custom bars anyway) there's going to be a version of the bars with numbers included which is what i use in vanilla, and i will presumably use it in cal when it is added

i just can't live without actually being able to see what my health is numerically at quickly tho lmao

[hollow shell]

indeed

[cobalt pewter]

me

wanna throw hands?

[blazing kettle]

remind me later

[wide river]

@grim tusk Sorry for pinging you, but I remembered that you had some doubts about my suggestion.
I just wanted to make sure that you got to see my thoughts on your question

Just thought I'd ask about it before it gets into voting

[grim tusk]

Yea add this

Oh now that I want to reply ping it didnt

Oh well you’re here anyways so

[wide river]

Ok, thanks for the feedback!

[north oracle]

LGL said almost all bosses are getting changed and some are getting complete reworks

[ripe owl]

@rich oxide that's not really a suggestion. There's a bugs forum channel where you can report the optimization problems

[rich oxide]

Thanks again

[abstract orchid]

has any one suggested that rarity colours not go into next tiers for weapons post-moonlord, it just felt special progressing through those but prefixes can bump up a post-DoG rarity into the pink

[ripe owl]

What next tiers again?

[swift wharf]

isnt that just how rarity works

[abstract orchid]

yes but it feels weird, i was quite used to the previous calamity rarity system

grr

thing is, at the post-ml stage, you'd be stupid not to reforge the weapon all the way to its best rarity, its a very minor preference thing but i'll suggest it since no one has

[small timber]

@hollow shell (the Onyx Excavator key suggestion went into voting eventhough I think it was mentioned that the specific function will be provided by rubblemaker in 1.4.4)

[grave zinc]

@bronze tendon - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make the Onyx Excavator Key Placeable]

It has been add to the devs' to-do list and planned for implementation!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[ripe owl]

Eh. That works too

[hollow shell]

Yeah technically

Cuz, it's a plan

[ripe owl]

And now watch 10k more of the Onyx Key request

[grim tusk]

Mf asking us to revert the mod rarity support

@hollow shell would this be an ❗ ?

[hollow shell]

I personally wouldn't think so
They're not asking for a reversion necessarily, they aren't motivated by making something into the way it was before
They came up with the reasoning organically, it just so happens that in the past the system was already like that

[grim tusk]

Oh well it either dies in voting hell or gets denied

[drowsy plank]

if it's just going to get rejected anyway it feels weird to let it waste a slot in voting

idk maybe that's just me

[unreal saffron]

Who wants some non summoner exhumed weapons?

[small timber]

more exhumed weapons will be slowly added

[wide river]

iirc only items that are important to the lore get exhumed

So until we have more of those we aint getting more exhumed weapons

[abstract orchid]

this, if you are going to reject it, boot it now then

[distant gyro]

enchants and exhumed weapons will have to go back to the drawing board due to scrapped cont

[distant gyro]

well no, you don't need to assign prefixed rarity for it to still use mod rarities

[abstract orchid]

yeah, not asking for a reversion, definitely prefer the items actually having colour when picked up and other rarity support stuff added in

[half imp]

Mage:

[neat linden]

that's just summoner but far less steps

both summon magical things, one of them keeps the magical things active while the other typically just spawns more of them that die after some time

[glass arch]

the only non mage/summoner weapon that ive heard can be exhumed is braelors axe which is coming later on

[half imp]

that sounds like a tool

so it is a summoner weapon

[glass arch]

idk you got the rogue axes

[fervent orbit]

it could always be a photon ripper situation

a weapon and also a tool

which would also mean its melee

[wide river]

Axes are not defined by a class
If someone so desired they could make an axe a ranged weapon

[deft yew]

Would be epic to exhume it into Catastrophe’s sword or something

[glass arch]

exhume feral claws to get cataclysms fists

[deft yew]

HOLD UP

EXHUMED PHOSPHO GAUNTLET WHEN

[wide river]

Honestly a sick idea

[deft yew]

Phospho Gauntlet is so darn much fun to use

(totally not biased)

[wide river]

I've never used it in a serious sense, but it would be absurdly fun to make a parkour course with that and Auric Ore

Like a Getting Over It style parkour course

[half imp]

smh I literally talked about this earlier

(like weeks ago)

Exhumed phosphorescent gauntlet would be sick

[neat linden]

what would it do though

[grim tusk]

Could work like the Hades Gauntlet

[fervent orbit]

catastrophe and cataclysm exhume weapons for melee

[deft yew]

Phospho but with more damage and self-knockback and it would also have a long windup
Landing a hit would let you spam it to shoot fist projectiles for a bit

[swift wharf]

sis

[deft yew]

(You don’t see me making an actual suggestion out of this

[undone cedar]

If ur friends with one of the devs you can skip suggestions entirely imo

[swift wharf]

do i need to add more trols to the message

[undone cedar]

[deft yew]

[drowsy plank]

@real oracle #1042197406776827914 but also scaling is dumb

If you want to make a suggestion to just add more water debuffs just say that

i think they already know but it can't hurt

[real oracle]

probably

[swift wharf]

the water debuff population is in severe drought

[real oracle]

I only suggested scaling because hardmode does exactly that

[drowsy plank]

technically this is both a balancing and a progression scaling dont atm, so i think just moving to "add more water debuffs" would both lead to a more accurate reasoning, while also not breaking the rules id say

[real oracle]

but another debuff could be better

[drowsy plank]

yeah and i think they want to ditch that

[swift wharf]

vanilla just has a stronger debuff now

[drowsy plank]

caldev has been very diligant about killing every possible instance of scaling they can find

im sure crush depth will be hit eventually too

[real oracle]

Ok, I'll try to change it

[drowsy plank]

👍 gl

[deft yew]

Ironskin

[swift wharf]

I AM GOING TO MURDER YOU

[drowsy plank]

ironskin and warding are not real shut up shut up shut up

[deft yew]

smile

[swift wharf]

ironskin makes me extremely angry

[wide river]

Defense actually has a purpose for scaling, unlike debuffs or weapons

[swift wharf]

so does warding

just give defense to armor sets

tbh

[drowsy plank]

tbf warding and ironskin scaling is mostly because it'd be weird to have hardmode and moon lord locked reforges lmfao

[wide river]

Remove damage reforges

[drowsy plank]

and ironskin being turned into like 4 potions would suck balls

[wide river]

They technically scale

[undone cedar]

Remove reforges

[deft yew]

Society if Terraria balance wasn’t supported by a four-dimensional layer of rotten scaffolding and weird code

[drowsy plank]

im pretty sure they stay at 4% damage throughout the game

[wide river]

So true

[drowsy plank]

so very true reforges did not need to exist 🙏

[wide river]

The joke was they get more effective through the game due to base damage increasing

[deft yew]

Remove critical strike chance

[swift wharf]

crit chance is permanently locked to 1%

[drowsy plank]

turn crit chance into ror2 crit chance like that one suggestion

[swift wharf]

replace crit with chance to instakill enemies

on g

[drowsy plank]

this will surely have no long term consequences

LOL

[wide river]

Honestly, if increasing crit chance was only available through accessories, and not through weapons or reforges, that would make the system so much better

[deft yew]

The more I think about it maybe crits are just bad game design

[swift wharf]

it's ok it's only 0,05%

[undone cedar]

This is so true i hate reforges

[drowsy plank]

is there any game where a random crit is actually balanced

[swift wharf]

give a penalty for using warding or ironskin

😈

[drowsy plank]

LOL

[undone cedar]

Crits aren’t bad imo
They serve the purpose of being a secondary damage modifier

[swift wharf]

each 1 defense is 1% less damage

[wide river]

Endgame melee doing -360% damage

[drowsy plank]

i think mechanical crits (crits given upon validating a certain condition) are good, but random ones just introduce unneeded variance on an already messy system
like unless your battle system is the simplest thing on the planet, (random) crits are just going to complicate it even more

[undone cedar]

I mean tbf terraria is simplistic

[drowsy plank]

on the surface yeah

[wide river]

There's two ends of the spectrum
One end where crits break literally everything
The other where they do literally nothing

[neat linden]

because your skin is made out of iron, your move significantly slower and cannot regen

balance :D

[drowsy plank]

when i say simple i mean like. paper mario simple

[drowsy plank]

alcohols be like

[drowsy plank]

soooooo true

[wide river]

Unfortunately any suggestion regarding crit chance is almost guaranteed to be a grand scale suggestion

Just because crits are such a major part of gameplay

[drowsy plank]

i dont think it's cal's place to deal with them anyway so idc it's just very funny to point out

[wide river]

Indeed

[half imp]

genuinely crit chance cannot change

without breaking the game

[wide river]

It's too far gone

[half imp]

the only change that would not break the game is like

uncapping crit

so at 101% you could 1% chance to double crit

it could still break stuff though probably

[glass arch]

mechanical crits are amazing

one of the reasons i like dead cells (also because that game is fun as fuck but thats a different topic)

[real oracle]

Actually, about my suggestion, I'll include sickness and electricity since they're affected as well

[glass arch]

more non-fire debuffs would be nice

[wide river]

Considering Fire debuffs have almost the same amount as Sickness, Electricity, and Water debuffs all combined, yeah

[real oracle]

I changed it, let me know what you think

If this vulnerability system is fully developed someday it would be so cool

It would enable a true support playstyle for other players

with things like water and slime gun, or inflicting irradiated

and flooded arenas being more important if a strong electricity debuff is added bc of the potential 10x debuff damage

[wide river]

I like it. I'm a bit biased toward debuff classes, but it should be good.

[real oracle]

Not to turn this into genshin reactions or something like that

but electricity with water is cool and currently not very useful

[wide river]

It'd be really cool if like
If you had three debuffs of varying types, they could all be deapplied for a big boost of damage

[drowsy plank]

ok no dont

stop saying scaling

that's a dont

the rest of it is fine

[real oracle]

ok removing it then

[drowsy plank]

👍

we should just get more debuffs period like dw it isnt bloat it can't be any worse than fire atm lmfao

[real oracle]

This would be op when playing multiplayer and not that good when playing solo, but it's a cool concept

[wide river]

If it ever got implemented
And that's a massive if
It would likely be percentage based, to be viable in the later game

Because if it was a flat value, it'd become irrelevant in the late game

Or it would demolish everything in the early game

[real oracle]

Yeha that's a good idea

[wide river]

I think it'd be too complex for a suggestion, but it would be neat to see implemented

It's also a Xenoblade reference but that's besides the point

[real oracle]

Obviously when I say "add more debuffs" I mean make already existing weapons inflict a new debuff and nerf their damage accordingly

Accesories is harder

[real oracle]

yeah I get that

[wide river]

I think I'll add it to my list of mods to make
I've got two others from here as well

[real oracle]

oh that's really nice!

[wide river]

They're mostly involving debuffs and elements

[real oracle]

that's very cool

[wide river]

Maybe once I figure out how to make a mod, I'll make one big mod based on elements

[real oracle]

hoping that day comes

[wide river]

And if I figure out how to add mod support, I'll make it compatible with Calamity too

[fervent orbit]

sickness alr gets strong debuffs

[real oracle]

I mainly like this as a way of having you use more weapons and accesories

[fervent orbit]

also im pretty sure that one seadragon debuff suggestion exists

[real oracle]

strongest dps is plague with -50, it's not bad at all for that stage, but it's not a sickness debuff mainly focused on damage and it falls off really hard post-ml

[wide river]

Oh yeah, cog's suggestion

[fervent orbit]

sulphurous poisoning

[real oracle]

true, completely forgot

changing my post then

still

it falls off

[fervent orbit]

i mean

90dps is good

[real oracle]

it's not that bad though

should I remove sickness then?

[fervent orbit]

half of dragonfire actually

[real oracle]

since strongest cold debuff is nightwither with 100 dps

if I leave it I should add cold as well

but then I basically ask for everything except fire

[wide river]

90 damage per second versus the 1300000 health of Yharon

[fervent orbit]

also i just realised how useless sulphurous poisoning is

pretty much all sulphurous poisoning is dropped from one boss: old duke
which is before dog
that isnt affected by ANY DEBUFFS

[real oracle]

since it's the first time I do this suggestion thing and I think you need to keep it fairly simple

[fervent orbit]

(except funni shellfish)

[real oracle]

I will ask for the urgent ones

and remove the rest

[distant gyro]

sp was initially vile toxins and exclusive to scourge of the seas

[wide river]

If someone were to only kill Yharon with Sulphurous Poisoning, it would take 10 hours if I did the math right

[distant gyro]

so it's not made to be powered with old duke in mind

[fervent orbit]

oh right

[real oracle]

you're forgetting the vulnerabilities tho

[distant gyro]

your best shot with sickness is probably still viral sprout gin toxic heart

[fervent orbit]

it is viral spout

im not sure how good it is on tier

can we just get rid of dog being immune to everything

[wide river]

That would still be 2 hours

[real oracle]

ok, let's check the strongest fire debuff now

in terms of dps

imagine if yharon was vulnerable to fire

[wide river]

Looks to be dragonfire

[real oracle]

we need to treat it as a % increase in your dps

what's the average dps of any class pre-yharon

[wide river]

Going from Sulphuric Poisoning to Dragonfire halves the time to one hour

If Oiled is applied, the time goes down to about 52 minutes

[real oracle]

dragonfire with vulnerability deals almost 1k dps

not counting increases from alcohols

and with vulnerability and slimed it deals 1.8k dps

[glass arch]

another suggestion that mentions infernum in the reasoning

big lmao

[wide river]

The average dps at around that stage, I'd say, would be about 8-10k dps. At least, based on killtimes.

So let's say that it would be about 15% of the players dps

[real oracle]

so not counting alcohols this means a 20% damage increase

[wide river]

Yes, about

[real oracle]

or 15% yeah

not bad at all

now let's not forget yharon is not exactly vulnerable to fire

so the idea is to get this +-20% dps with all debuff types

[wide river]

Not only Infernum, but Fargo's as well

[drowsy plank]

tfw cal's problem to fix an issue with fargo

[grim tusk]

At least infernum is used as an example and not the reasoning

Unlike several other suggs

[grim tusk]

Luiafk

Several mods have instabridges

[swift wharf]

you dont need an insta bridge

you have the crags

[wide river]

The suggestion title says fargo's instabridges

[swift wharf]

the instabridge in question behaves the same way

[grim tusk]

@jade kraken Remove the mention of Fargos, other mods also add instabridges too

(Also with fargos specifically, mini instabridges exist to attempt to avoid these issues)

[swift wharf]

me when you're not supposed to fucking cut your underworld in half because of a single boss

[wide river]

The Calamity playerbase when you aren't supposed to delete the world for the Eye of Cthulhu arena

In any case, the Brimstone Crags are perfectly fine for an arena.

[undone cedar]

The instabridges literally have like a warning on them to be careful to not destroy stuff with them

[worthy path]

Hope I didn't mess that up

[drowsy plank]

yeah there's nothing wrong with this

the only real counter argument is

[swift wharf]

why

[drowsy plank]

why wouldnt you just use the money trough tho lmao

[swift wharf]

• sis (?)

[drowsy plank]

it's not really an SIS it's kinda just asking for a sort of med box/1.4.4 mech cart kind of idea
it just feels pointless because money trough already exists

[crude geode]

da one inventory slot though!!!

[drowsy plank]

sooooo true

[crude geode]

yeah not really a sis

[worthy path]

Yeah I don't really see the use until I used it myself but it's actually great

*didn't

The extra slot helps

Sometimes you have a lot of coins in a dangerous situation and it's possible to store them

[swift wharf]

huh

[drowsy plank]

just making me thinking about 1.4.4 void bag literally just being an extended inventory which like, who cares about a slot at that point
also these so far are just things you can do with money trough still

[worthy path]

Like if a boss dies and you restart or if it's a boss like exos that drops money part way through

Can't really just pop out a money trough mid boss

[swift wharf]

brother

[drowsy plank]

sure you can

put it on hotbar lmao

[swift wharf]

EXOS

[worthy path]

People do that?

[drowsy plank]

no because who cares

[swift wharf]

exos of all bosses to make an example of

[drowsy plank]

there are easier ways to get money

[swift wharf]

by the time you're in ENDGAME money doesn't matter

[worthy path]

I used exos as an example because that's the one I did recently so I know it's true lol

[drowsy plank]

me having 10 plat in preHM

[swift wharf]

not even endgame like

YEAH

[crude geode]

you see. people forget void bag exists.

[swift wharf]

i love solving unexisting problems

[drowsy plank]

so true

[worthy path]

It's also just way less tedious to be able to quick stack

[hollow shell]

This sugg would probably be quite (very) hard to implement
but
It does have a pretty big consistency precedence due to the fix we did for Hermit's Box

[drowsy plank]

tbf it's a vanilla thing

chester being a piggy bank is just flavor

[worthy path]

Yeah I wasn't sure of the coding specifics but I understand it being a huge pain to implement

[drowsy plank]

money trough is literally the exact same thing

[wide river]

Indeed, however, I don't think it's inherently a "grand-scale" suggestion, so it might be able to pass into voting

[swift wharf]

just

put your money away before fighting a boss

[worthy path]

It's why I suggested a hotkey basically

Which isn't the best option imo but

Better than nothing

[drowsy plank]

deerclops permanent upgrade

[worthy path]

Even though atp I'll admit it's even less of a difference

[swift wharf]

I'll upgrade you into dead permanently

[drowsy plank]

awesome

[wide river]

Are you seriously complaining that the boss that doesn't give anything worthwhile would give something worthwhile

[drowsy plank]

fr tho i think bobbit upgrade a la mech cart would be a more realistic kind of permanent upgrade than this lol

[swift wharf]

i mean

chester is already good enough

[drowsy plank]

and money trough

[swift wharf]

deerclops is like post eye

[drowsy plank]

lol

deerclops is "post-Skeletron"

well pre-Skele

[wide river]

Some people don't like using money trough, or forget it exists

[drowsy plank]

it depends on who you believe

[wide river]

See: Void Bag

[swift wharf]

haha nice one manny

[drowsy plank]

how do you forget money trough exists

[hollow shell]

I prefer Money Trough over Chester
I can't deal with the way Chester moves, I prefer it just being a static object

But that's me.

[worthy path]

Deerclops you can do pre boss because it doesn't despawn

[swift wharf]

people don't like to use X is a shitty argument

[drowsy plank]

pretty sure cal despawns him

[wide river]

When the blood moon never happens

[swift wharf]

and yea money through is kinda better

[worthy path]

I don't think so because I died tonnes last time lol

[drowsy plank]

that's a problem with blood moons

[swift wharf]

then the problem are blood moons

not money through

[worthy path]

Unless I'm completely off

[drowsy plank]

(it isnt actually bride and groom spawn in graveyard and drop blood orbs)

[swift wharf]

what the fuck

[drowsy plank]

they're blood moon enemies

[swift wharf]

the more you know ☄️

[crude geode]

the amount of people who know this:

[swift wharf]

how many ppl are in this chat

[crude geode]

2

compared to the amount of people who play cal especially

[glass arch]

no theres 3

[swift wharf]

me and the voices on my head

[crude geode]

on

[deft yew]

That makes 4

(me and mine

[crude geode]

we're controlling you like mr. ratatouille

[wide river]

deep sigh
Look.
Some people don't do the same as the majority, and may prefer things to be different. That doesn't mean we should always cater to the minority groups, but it also doesn't mean that we should never cater to them. If it would be possible for Cal to do, then it would be a nice thing for people that don't like Chester or the Money Trough.
How's this, if it doesn't pass, I'll try and add it into a mod I'm planning on making. Deal?

[drowsy plank]

sure lol

[wide river]

Please don't take this as being rude. It's just my personal opinion.

[drowsy plank]

it just feels silly but yeah it's up to democracy if this is worth doing lol

[worthy path]

Sounds cool!

Yeah I can only speak personally here but for me, there's enough added QoL to having Chester over not having it that I can't really justify using any of the cool Cal or vanity mod pets (and there's not a mod for this as a standalone thing that I could find, there's one that makes Chester a light pet but that just removes more QoL)

I get that seems to be more of a me thing based on what everyone is saying though

Still would like to see it but completely understand the perspective of money trough doing enough

[errant bobcat]

What’s the other pet item theyre talking about that has a permanent buff?

[crude geode]

hermit box

[errant bobcat]

Ah

[bright crag]

I understand and kinda relate to the suggestion
But well, being a storage unit is part of Chester's inherent design :p

And you can always use Money Trough

[drowsy plank]

exactly lol

[frosty trellis]

Yeah I just
Use the trough
Fargo's Mutant makes it follow you anyways if you grab that so

[half imp]

it's a cool idea but not something I feel like is needed

[drowsy plank]

still need to get around to making a bobbit perm grade sugg but that needs 1.4.4 for basis

[half imp]

I also personally despise chester for getting in the way of auto cursor

especially with crystal crusher

please make it mine normally on L click

autocursor does not play well with rclick to mine

[austere cargo]

In Calamity's design philosophy, should a combined accessory be strictly better than each of its components individually?

[half imp]

no

(as made obvious by the camper)

a combined accessory is usually supposed to be better, but not always in the same ways

ie; core of the blood god gives less boost to healing potions and less max HP than Blood Pact, and loses the damage bonuses it can give too

but in exchange you don't get critically hit and also have the flesh totem effect

or another example; Mechanical Glove

melee emblem gives 15% dmg and power glove gives 12% speed, but it only gives 12% damage and speed

It's better, though, as it only takes one slot

[inner anvil]

@deft yew Seeing the latest post in #suggestions-voting by you.
We already had planned to make a Brimstone Crags backround already, we already have concept for it.
So I guess your suggestion was already technically planned.

[drowsy plank]

so someone should probably mark it as planned for implementation, right?

[ripe owl]

Yep

[grim tusk]

Was it 🛠️ or ✅ for these?

[crude geode]

🛠️ for planned

[ripe owl]

[deft yew]

[grave zinc]

@deft yew - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Recolor the underworld background while in the Brimstone Crags]

It has been add to the devs' to-do list and planned for implementation!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[ornate kestrel]

That was quick

[half imp]

zoom

[small timber]

I will be honest just get cheat sheet

or farm the blocks in a different world

[hollow pendant]

not really what it was going for

[small timber]

because if your world is so old that it only have vanilla biomes (not even old version of calamity biome) then there is really no way to solve it

because most (if not all) the blocks you mentioned are obtainable as long as calamity mobs can spawn

[hollow pendant]

brimstone crags are unob in those worlds

[half imp]

I will say

[small timber]

Despair Stone drops the brimstone crag blocks

[half imp]

Sulphur Sea Side Changer type item

[hollow pendant]

only mob that drops brimstone slag is despair stone

[half imp]

for force generation of biomes

would be nice

[small timber]

if the world is so old to the point that you don't even have that mob then there is really no natural solution to it

[half imp]

Like for example

[hollow pendant]

guess what

[small timber]

probably will have very bad impact such as deleting player building

[hollow pendant]

it spawns in brimstone crag

[half imp]

yeah that's why it's a debug item

they're getting themselves into it

[small timber]

just create a new world, farm like 200 brimstone slab and then bring it to your world

[hollow pendant]

not how challenges work dawg

[half imp]

but like say

[hollow pendant]

you need to be in 1 world

[half imp]

some mod stops your planetoid from generating

[small timber]

but yeah being able to craft the biome blocks from a bunch of materials just feels extremely bandaidy for a specific problem that most people don't ever have teo deal with

[half imp]

Or actually even better your exodium planets fail to spawn

[small timber]

that is a self-imposed challenge on something that is not even a challenge

[half imp]

having an exodium planet force spawn item

would be really nice

or the sunken sea lab failing to spawn

etc

[small timber]

you are not getting new resources like multiple shrine items, you literally are just going in a different world to kill some mobs for some blocks so that you can actually get a biome but you chose to refuse to do it

[half imp]

I will say

[small timber]

for most people they just create a new world at this point which you dont want to do so

[half imp]

Once we have shimmer, a suggestion to get crag, sunken, abyss items in shimmer would be cool

but until then I'd say it doesn't make sense

and that's a future suggestion so it's not valid rn

[small timber]

yeah it will basically just completely dump down the exploration aspect because you can just say, craft a brimstone biome without ever visiting it

the sulphur sea side changer is basically a bandaid bug fix but this one is of a different nature

[half imp]

yeah

and it's kinda still not relevant to Skyblock

it's just relevant to mod conflicts and bugs

[hollow pendant]

its also been added before

[small timber]

it is added to fix a bug, not to provide additional resources that might alter how you play the game

[half imp]

^

[small timber]

not having calamity biome in your old world is not a bug, it is just your world is so old that you don't have them which is easily solvable by creating a new world, and worst case scenario you just farm the blocks in the new world and bring it to your old world which will allow you to continue using your old world

the scenario right now is just you chose not to do it because the "1 character 1 world" challenge (which in this case is not even a challenge)

[hollow pendant]

i edited my message

also thats not what i meant by challenge

[crude geode]

this is usually known as low%

[small timber]

this gone even greater into the challenge territory

like how does your world just not have a desert unless you alter it specifically to become like a skyblock?

[hollow pendant]

caelum is different

[hollow pendant]

im talking about skyblock, like the minimum you need to beat the game like the added stuff is just 101 brimstone slag

thats literally it

[small timber]

this might not be directly referring to it, but this kind of also applies to "challenge playthrough" in general

you are purposefully capping your own resources by editing the game in a way that limits it, and the suggestion is based on said challenges which are usually not a problem at all

[crude geode]

^^^^^

[small timber]

like I will not suggest to "make every weapon and armors droppable at very low% chance on random on progression enemy" because I am doing a playthrough where I can't craft items and still want to obtain weapons to use as if I crafted them

[half imp]

so true

(I would hate so much if they did something like that, low% is fun because you're so limited)

[hollow pendant]

alright this is like a damn courtroom

im deleting the messagew

[crude geode]

this seems fine

it's a bandaid solution but it's not one that's going to be obvious to the casual player like potion shops or blood orbs or configs

[half imp]

it's one that if people really are looking to solve a problem they have (which can be many things we can't predict, thanks especially to mod conflicts) it'll be able to solve a lot of them

[kindred skiff]

What message

[ashen warren]

i ahve a suggustion

add 9 rings of hell to the mod

[hollow shell]

glad that message went without a response for 4 and a half hours
exactly what it deserved

[cobalt pewter]

I was gonna respond but I have better responsibilities at hand

[ripe owl]

I didn't even see it

[shrewd timber]

Does anyone know if a rogue is suitable for death mode at all? He has so little damage that even the shooter will envy

[small timber]

rogue is currently one of (if not) the most broken class in the game
as in overpowered
you just have to find the right weapon which is often plentiful
(and this belongs to #calamity-mod-talk , #help-advice-read-pins or #1042197406776827914 )

[half imp]

^

[grim tusk]

Yes, rogue is very strong but requires more thoughtful play and experimentation of how you mix weapons, accessories and stealth (or the lack of)

[ripe owl]

Rogue is imo the closest we've got to actual builds in Terraria

You can either equip whatever you want and spam the projectiles

Or you can go smart and do stuff with stealth strikes

And those require specific builds

But yeah, it doesn't really belong to here, I don't even know why I'm talking about all of this

[hearty yew]

This is fundamentally a mechanical reversion / removal of mod consistency support and will never be accepted. It does not violate suggestion rules but I personally will veto it if it gets to dev server.

I agree that there is logic to it, and I would be more than willing to set up a compromise where things cannot "reforge up" to the dev item rarity, if that's the main issue at hand.

This would be done by making the rarities non-linear, i.e. dev items with poor reforges downgrade to Violet or Dark Blue, but dev items with positive reforges upgrade to Dark Red. Violet items with good reforges also go to Dark Red, but skip Hot Pink.

The net result is that Hot Pink becomes a "side rarity" to Violet, specially reserved for dev items at the end of the game as opposed to other endgame items.

[half imp]

I think that would be a good solution

[hearty yew]

Imo, the way that reforges change rarity of items is really stupid. I would prefer it if, at most, the best reforge gave it +1 rarity, and nothing else did anything

But TML added support for it, so we support it for consistency, even if I personally don't agree with the mechanic

[deft yew]

Love me some Terraria mechanic bloat

[ornate kestrel]

Always

[wide river]

Just curious, is there a record for the most starred suggestion?

[cobalt pewter]

to my knowledge it's still this suggestion of demik's
#suggestions-voting message

[wide river]

...
A suggestion asking for a sprite to be flipped is the highest starred suggestion of all time???

[cobalt pewter]

yes.

[wide river]

At the very least it's not a toilet suggestion, so I'll take that

[cobalt pewter]

infinitely better than a toilet sugg

[drowsy plank]

@empty veldt just saying now i think there are already plans for this? but it can't hurt to send in a suggestion to remind them i suppose. also tracer's special ability is just to have insane horizontal speed atm lol

[empty veldt]

true

[wide river]

The "It can't hurt to remind them" excuse doesn't always work, but every now and then is fine, I think

[empty veldt]

like I said it bc im just done being annoyed about the post-ml wings having buffs with them while tracers exist like

[wide river]

Ye, sorry. I wasn't saying the suggestion was a bad idea

It would be neat to have tracers be different in some way

[swift wharf]

🧎‍♂️

based boot suggestion

[spring saffron]

void glasses

[hollow pendant]

or just get the item that disables flight

[half imp]

about this suggestion

that's basically what using angel treads does

[empty veldt]

https://tenor.com/view/spiderman-funny-laugh-gif-11964564

[wide river]

That got purged, didn't it?

[half imp]

it's a little slower but iirc it scales with speed wackily

[empty veldt]

The tracers are faster

[half imp]

and there are wings that are faster than tracers are

so

[empty veldt]

Dont forget theres also the 2 other upgrades

[half imp]

you can always just go for the fast wings

[wide river]

There's very little grounded combat in Post-Moon Lord, so using the Tracers is almost a waste, especially considering you could just use Tarragon Wings for the set boost

Re: the new suggestion, that's already planned, innit?

At least a rework is, anyway

[long ridge]

is it still planned?

[half sage]

it was but idk the state of it now since it was iban reworking it

[wide river]

I'm not sure. I do remember plans were made, but yeah

[long ridge]

If it was iban then it's scrapped for sure

[wide river]

I think the suggestion is fine, in any case. Even if the plans were scrapped, there is always a possibility that there are new ones.

Or, like the alternative states, simply remove them if they're not important anymore

[glass arch]

there are plans to at least rename the line

[wide river]

Ah, right. Because Yharim isn't a "tyrant" anymore

[glass arch]

im not positive if its coming with a rework too but theres definitely that possibility

[wide river]

We'll just have to see, I suppose.

[glass arch]

iirc he is, just has a lot of other names too

[wide river]

Oh, ok.

[drowsy plank]

this really feels like the crag and boot suggs tbh

not to be like

devplans.png but like

it'd be helpful if we could just get one in here to confirm/deny if these are a waste of time lmao

[glass arch]

ive heard cei confirm the renames will happen

[wide river]

At least they're well written

[drowsy plank]

true

[wide river]

I'd take a bunch of already planned suggestions over the #calamity-mod-talk meme ideas that usually come in

[drowsy plank]

very true

[deft yew]

You want to talk about removing broadswords? Tip your waiters, I’ll be here all night

[golden sonnet]

Trying to remove toenail sword,

[bright crag]

We have some ideas for reworking this line

[wide river]

That's good, at least

[drowsy plank]

...so is someone gonna flag the suggestion?

[wide river]

Who even does the flagging, devs or mods?

[drowsy plank]

i would assume both but i have no idea lmao

[wide river]

I remember Shade being able to do it, so I guess devs have the permission

[grim tusk]

DevPlans.png goes against that sugg

[wide river]

Is this the mystical devplans.png

Jokes aside
Shade, would you mind exclaiming the most recent suggestion since it's already planned?

[crude geode]

It’s just gonna get a 🛠️ when it goes into voting wdym

[wide river]

This is what I mean

I just wish to make sure that an already planned suggestion doesn't take away votes and screen space from other newer suggestions

As stated before, I suppose there's no harm in it passing, but if it's already planned then it might as well get deleted

[undone cedar]

Why would it take away votes?

[wide river]

Apparently some people don't scroll up

It's an unlikely scenario, and I'm probably just being paranoid, but I like to make sure

...Apologies, I forget myself sometimes. After all, it's not within my duties to monitor suggestions.

[cobalt pewter]

on god

we'll never see the end of it

[glass arch]

does this new one fall into SIS territory

[random talon]

SIS?

[cobalt pewter]

very I think

[undone cedar]

Yes

[glass arch]

specific item suggestion

[random talon]

Oh oops

[undone cedar]

It specifically describes what the pedestal should look like

[random talon]

Sorry guys

I'll delete the post I guess

[wide river]

Essentially it's a term used to refer to suggestions that are overly specific

[cobalt pewter]

and even if you're not trying to be specific you'd skirt close to giving rock usage

so there's not really a way to go about it

[random talon]

ok

[worldly basalt]

you could but the rock on a pedestal of your own making

[grim tusk]

Yes

[ripe owl]

Jonas why did you not only leave your suggestion but also edited it to look like [Under Construction] :wires:

[random talon]

sorry

[grim tusk]

Doesnt break rules and just gets 🔒 if it ever gets to dev

We wont be deleting the swords

Cuz we have plans for em already

[ripe owl]

👍

[grim tusk]

@wide river

[wide river]

Mm, my bad. Just ignore the request, then.

[small timber]

tbh this is just my opinion, but for something that the dev already are planning to do, but especially that it is high effort (considering reworking the entire line), I think this should be like exclaimable? or get 🔒 as it enter voting

because in cases like this because it is so high effort that it will not really get "hasten" or "rework faster" just because of a suggestion, and the thing getting suggested is already planned to be done at some point anyway so it is not really providing a new idea

but most importantly the high effort part which means the "gather public opinion/interest" part of suggestion don't really apply just because it will take a significant time and is not something that can just be "oh since the community is interested in this we can just implement it real quick"

but yeah just my opinion

[ripe owl]

Sorry but 🐌

[hollow ridge]

!wiki Tarragon Helm

[red storm]

https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Tarragon_armor

[distant gyro]

you can tell an armor is old when it has lava charm and flippers attached to it

[crude geode]

Fr

[distant gyro]

and that's 2 whole lines of the tooltip

[small timber]

speaking of tooltip there is also Victide summoner

its "+1 max minion" is at the bottom instead of at the top

(or the entire spreadsheet worth of tooltips worth changing but I will not rant about it for now)

[crude geode]

I feel like this sugg could be shortened in some way cuz it’s kinda massive and takes up a lot of lines

[hollow shell]

^^^^^^^^^^^

[cobalt pewter]

I think the tooltips should use quotes and the actual problematic parts be bolded

this quote I mean

better readability at least

but formatting aside

isn't this a very

small issue? or is it just me

[small timber]

if you are fixing wording issue my as well post the an entire file worth of it yeah

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18T4kYEf5srOd-6Hei4m9WnVoNwCN7aEy/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=100257730182736306914&rtpof=true&sd=true

[cobalt pewter]

yeah might as well compile everything

but good luck convincing an average cal player to star it

then again demik's icicle arrow sugg is all time highest voted sugg

so who knows

[hollow shell]

Yes it is a very very minor fix but we don't exactly have a field for trivially minor suggestion submissions

Also here I made a visual graphical guide for the suggestion

[distant gyro]

icicle arrow sug can no longer be topped

tbh

[hollow shell]

all of them go Red Blue
except for Summoner which has em combined cuz they're the same percentage
and Melee which has em flipped for no discernable reason

Summoner is kinda grouped in with Melee cuz it does still mention DR first even if it's the same line

Ultimately doesn't matter which is mentioned first it just matters that they're consistent cuz why wouldn't they be

[long ridge]

@grim tusk Should I delete my suggestion?

[small timber]

imo the suggestion is not really necessary, mainly because the specific thing you are suggesting will be happening anyway (as in those specific weapons are among the ones targetted to be reworked)
but yeah sometimes dev plans might change, or not

[hollow shell]

(I'm obligated to mention they were among Iban's list of things to rework)

(He had a full mechanical rework ideas detailed for every sword and sprites made)

(Whoops!)

[cobalt pewter]

the

[ripe owl]

fuck you Discord

[long ridge]

That's part of the reason I made the suggestion

[long ridge]

As everything that Iban was working on got scrapped when he left

So I wanted to know if new plans had been made

[hollow shell]

mm

[wide river]

@worn pike I'm pretty sure you've just broken two suggestion rules there

[worn pike]

Wait really?

[wide river]

Yeah

[worn pike]

Which ones?