suggestions-discussion

[drowsy plank]

hell, just put a wall up!

[cobalt pewter]

yeah it is still signut drop to my knowledge

what if

we nerf NR instead

make its hotkey function only work if it's chucked into an acc slot

clearly Spectral Veil is the problem here and not NR

(fuck)

[drowsy plank]

id swap NR being in an accessory slot for removing the extra cooldown it has

[crude geode]

can't wait for a donor item more problematic than NR

[drowsy plank]

lmao

does glorious end count?

[crude geode]

what's a final dawn btw

[cobalt pewter]

what IS final dawn

[drowsy plank]

a mistake

[atomic shell]

astral biome plopped down right next to dungeon

I think they’re changing that in the next update but still

you shouldn’t be limited in where you fight things because a couple of dinky cultists are sitting around

[sinful violet]

I'd say that's a fair suggestion yeah

[prime quest]

What about making fruits for the Suplhurous sea?

[drowsy plank]

pretty sure that already passed and might even already be implemented

idr

[drowsy plank]

#suggestions-discussion message

[prime quest]

It is not implemented yet.

[prime quest]

A good idea would be the smelly durian.

[sinful violet]

i believe that was going to be in sulph sea yeah

[drowsy plank]

ok regardless there's no need to make a sugg since they already have it planned for implementation at least tho lmao

[serene tendon]

@atomic shell Just make LC and cultists not spawn after killing ML.

[atomic shell]

nuh uh

that would lock off everything from lunatic cultist

including stuff from other mods

[serene tendon]

I know it's generally a good idea to keep content available at all points of progression, but the Cultists do more harm than good

[serene tendon]

He doesn't have any weapons or anything, what're you on about?

And thanks to enemies dropping pillar fragments and Exodium Clusters containing copious amounts of luminite, you never need to refight ML

[sinful violet]

well if the LC summon item is still a thing then theoretically it's fine

regardless of accessibility with other mods though, and even if you have alternate sources for pillar fragments, locking out that content isn't ideal

[serene tendon]

Parity between content mods doesn't matter

[atomic shell]

why not make it an option

which is literally what this does?

[serene tendon]

A: 90% of people won't know about the spawnblocker unless it's shoved in their face. B: It feels too artificial, and a less complicated alternative already exists. There is statistically no reason you should ever need to fight LC again anyway

Celestial Sigil exists for ML

Deus drops fragments, not to mention what I said earlier

And if you DO want to summon LC again for some reason, use the Eidolon Tablet lol.

[sinful violet]

none of the spawn blocker items are that good tbf

would be nice if it was integrated some other way

because i agree about it being out of the way/artificial, but it seems like just letting it be an option would still be preferable

[serene tendon]

Config ; )

[sinful violet]

that's

kinda more out of the way and artificial

[serene tendon]

At least it doesn't contribute to item bloat

And it's just as, if not less artificial imo

[swift wharf]

config bloat

💥

[sinful violet]

Haven't bloated the GUI yet

[swift wharf]

must resist

nhdghjgjhj

[atomic shell]

I guarantee if it was a config people would say it’s dumb and unnecessary

[swift wharf]

because it is

just make the summon THE spawn blocker

no need to add another item

[atomic shell]

yeah but I also don’t want to go beat up eidolists

[sinful violet]

TOO bad

[atomic shell]

their drop is only really for non-linearity

[atomic shell]

[swift wharf]

when the item isn't craftable

😭😭😭

[atomic shell]

become craftable NOW 😡😡

I’d assume lore items for those bosses is coming in the upcoming lore rewrite?

[fossil finch]

When the item is only for non linearity and not for general qol..,.

All of them but deer

[swift wharf]

deerclops calamity lore...

[rotund tree]

lore items for Empress of Light and Queen Slime will be a thing in next update
Deerclops tho

[swift wharf]

where's betsy lore mr cal dev

[atomic shell]

“This mf dropped from the sky. I don’t know his deal but go fuck him up.”

[glass arch]

deerclops will get no lore

(crossover content)

[rotund tree]

@dawn trellis you can remove your suggestion, as the lore items are already implemented for the next update

[blazing kettle]

just borrow lore from the crossover trailer, weird goat gets teleported and is just there bow

[drowsy plank]

now i wanna suggest making Eidolon craftable at an Ancient Manipulator...

there's literally no reason not to let you do this, keeps it on Eidolists for linearity break, but lets people who just need to grind the guy do so without needing to go the the Abyss for no reason

[frosty trellis]

Then we just give Eidolists have Eidolon shards that can drop and that's how you craft it instead

[drowsy plank]

im killing you

[sinful violet]

ill turn a blind eye

[frosty trellis]

Okay but then who will be your testing monkey so you can work on the class setups for the wiki?

[drowsy plank]

so true

frankly that is a fate worse than death, so you can live

[serene tendon]

Deerclops is the only one who's lore doesn't need to be changed from vanilla

OOA things (including Betsy) are minibosses

[glass arch]

crossover content doesnt get lore

and im pretty sure betsy is counted as a boss

[glass arch]

@cedar grove why exactly does summoner need a weapon crafted with desert fossils?

[cedar grove]

Only because the other classes get to make something with fossils and summoners cannot

[crude geode]

Melee also doesn’t

Unless you really count fossil pickaxe

[cedar grove]

it should as well

fossils are cool

[glass arch]

a pickaxe isnt counted as a weapon

its counted as a tool

[small timber]

not all class have to get something in everything

summoner dont exactly have pure bars summon (except for few, referring to prehardmode and hardmode ore)

bone javelin is vanilla? so they are not changing it

[grim tusk]

Yea only ranger gets stuff from fossil

Rogue is also not thrower

[glass arch]

mage has amber staff byah

[cedar grove]

fair, thrower is rogue tho

[crude geode]

It isn’t.

[small timber]

thrower is not rogue

[glass arch]

its not

[small timber]

thrower is removed

[cedar grove]

it is and should be

lol

[grim tusk]

@cedar grove you should elaborate as to why fossil should be rogue, reasoning is too vague (talks a lot but says barely anything)

[glass arch]

shade literally just said rogue is not thrower

[grim tusk]

Also stormjaw staff stuff should be its own suggestion (for it you actually have reasoning)

[cedar grove]

discord communities are actually insanse

[glass arch]

and since shades a dev im inclined to agree with him

[small timber]

the tldr is: why does every class need to benefit from fossils

[crude geode]

“Discord communities” aka actual developers of the mod

[glass arch]

not every class needs a weapon from every material

[small timber]

for other class they can always craft scarab bomb (which is a really good item), or they can just sift it for cash and ores

[grim tusk]

Which the suggestion does not answer

[cedar grove]

game design paragraph blah

[drowsy plank]

L, bad at explaining your points lmao

also lmfao this literally breaks the rules

[errant bobcat]

Me when there is throwing knives (ranger), wulfrum knives(rouge), shadowflame knives(melee), magic dagger(mage) All of which act almost if not exactly the same, but are each for different classes

Also why is there bone javelins that are ranged, but then daybreak is melee

They work the exact same

[drowsy plank]

ask red

wulfrum at least makes sense because rogue used be thrower, but he kind lost the whole idea for the class so now stuff is just kinda stitched together from what's left

now wulfrum knives replace normal throwing knives

in rogue's kit at least

[drowsy plank]

@unique marten im pretty sure the plan is, once boss rush is actually being addressed, to tune the bosses so they're actually challenging and not just melt fests

[unique marten]

hm

makes sense but still

just a tad bit annoying atm

[drowsy plank]

ok

doesnt really matter since i dont even think they're taking suggs on boss rush, similarly to how they just don't care to balance dev tier weapons atm either

since they're just sort of visions of what's to be and they're still working on existing content atm

[frosty trellis]

If they cared about BR balance, RPC would've been killed immediately

[drowsy plank]

kinda like how the upgraded holiday events are annoying and weird, but since that whole thing is just gonna be replaced by distortion biome, it's kind of moot to sugg about it

lmfao

trueeeeee

[frosty trellis]

They like
kinda care
In a sense of making sure something doesn't break everything in 2 or buff certain weapons so they aren't just horridly bad but yeah

[unique marten]

i see

[golden tulip]

i dont even think boss rush can be "fixed"

your mobility at that point is just so insane that 90% of the bosses can be invalidated

or just, your gear in general at that point

the attacks of those bosses just arent a threat anymore

[bright crag]

^

BR just isn't the best test dummy, and the rules are really flexible
But there is some balance, and hopefully it will be done better

Our methods are far from perfect, and we've been trying to think how to improve

[bright crag]

As to this

Yeah, it's really hard to make it challenging when the player is so agile - but that's not the main problem

A Boss Rush which you completely melt takes 10-25 minutes
Imagine how long it would take if each boss was an actual threat

That's something to consider, and a big part of why Boss Rush is so hard to get right

Hollow Knight's Pantheons, which inspired the Boss Rush, aren't afraid of taking forever
But I'm not sure that's the way to go given how people already complain about BR taking too long

[golden tulip]

you could give it breaks

like hk does

checkpoints

hk doesnt do checkpoints in pantheons but u could do that

[bright crag]

Maybe

[glass arch]

@frozen veldt lack of demon altars argument is kinda redundant because early hardmode rework

[frozen veldt]

true but its annoying having to go across the world just to craft an item, theres not always one nearby

[glass arch]

yeah that isnt the part im criticizing, apart from the lack of altars its good suggestion

[half imp]

There is one that works as a demon altar

draedon forge

[glass arch]

to be fair

there isnt much you're crafting post exos that needs a demon altar

[frozen veldt]

bro thats post ml

[half imp]

yeah

[frozen veldt]

demon altars are mostly used in phm, also alot of other mods have demon altar crafting stations like thorium and i think fargos has one too

[drowsy plank]

yeah so either use one of those QoL mods or just use draedon forge

simple

[golden sonnet]

Magic storage has one, which is one of the most used mods

[formal sphinx]

Alternatively they could make a demon altar guarantied to generate below spawn somewhere.

[half imp]

nobody has said anything on my lance suggestion yet so I'll take that as a good sign that people don't disagree

[fossil finch]

You're trying again?

[formal sphinx]

I think it's neat. The only thing I've seen lances get used for is to One-shot Dungeon Guardian in vanilla.

[half imp]

yeah exactly

and cal removes that

so like... why use them ever

[swift wharf]

based lance suggestion

[drowsy plank]

im pretty sure vanilla already does this

like you gotta look a bit but it's there

[swift wharf]

it indeed does

it spawns a ton of demon altars in a certain y level iirc

[formal sphinx]

But it's rare to be able to see it while digging hell-o-vator.

[drowsy plank]

0, in fact

hm

what if you added a "peak" like sword shrines have?

[formal sphinx]

"Altars encountered outside of the Corruption/Crimson on a given map will always be found at a depth of around 8 feet or above. This can be seen at the Ocean floor, where altars can sometimes be found."
That doesn't mean they always generate directly below spawn.

[drowsy plank]

99% of the time they do

regardless

i got an idea

[serene tendon]

@frozen veldt Magic Storage adds a craftable one

[formal sphinx]

If they did, I wouldn't be putting out this idea lol
You just get super lucky with world gen.

[drowsy plank]

u arent the one making it armen is

[formal sphinx]

That's why I corrected myself.

[drowsy plank]

lol

[formal sphinx]

It's like, one out of 50 worlds you'll spot an altar while digging a hell-o-vator.

[drowsy plank]

i dont mean directly underneath the spawn point, but pretty close if you spend some time looking, it aint that hard, but i get what u mean

[formal sphinx]

I think that making a craftable/placeable altar alternative takes away from the feel of going somwhere specific to craft the ultimate pre-hardmode weapons.

[golden sonnet]

I think it should be directly on top of spawn, so you just can't build anything there until Hardmode : )

[formal sphinx]

Pfff

[swift wharf]

you could just put a teleporter or a pylon near an altar

[formal sphinx]

That's still post-skeletron for teleporters, and pylons still require you to find an altar that isn't in the world evil to place housing.

[swift wharf]

i know

[formal sphinx]

...What if Brimstone Crag were to have it's own altars?

[swift wharf]

it's a solution for hardmdoe

cuz adding a recipe for altars in prehm would be cringe

also teleporters are post skeletron now?

[formal sphinx]

Mechanic sells them I believe?
I might be thinking of another mod that puts them there or 1.4.4

[royal tapir]

1.4.4 change yeah

[formal sphinx]

Fair

[swift wharf]

So yeah just setup a teleporter lmao

walking to an altar before skeletron will not kill you

[fossil finch]

its kinda a very lame feel though

its not some special ritual place, say, its just

hole in bad biome that will kill me

like ive never felt it as some special deed i was doing, never in vanillla or modded

its just "well i've got to arbitrarily got to that place with the closest altar now"

[sinful violet]

should make it so that the placable altar is absolutely indestructible

that'll show em

[swift wharf]

true

[glass arch]

i never really thought of going to the crimson or corruption as an special ritual place, i was mainly scared out of my mind because if i die ill have to go all the way back

[fossil finch]

the funny starlight crystal from astral sorcery comes to mind, to start with the whole mod youre obligued to find one and youll eventually have to come back to it before you are able to make your own freely, but it doesnt feel like a slog and its actually treated importantly

[swift wharf]

astral sorcery detected opinion rejected

[fossil finch]

boot up a modpackj server i can run and show me the real magic tehen

asshol

[swift wharf]

tc:

[fossil finch]

ok but still do it itd be funny i think

[swift wharf]

ambiguous abbreviation xdd

uhhhhh

occultism

[fossil finch]

anyways can you at least see the point i was making

[blazing kettle]

isnt the profaned soul artifact sugg being implemented in the next update?

[fossil finch]

(what is occultim

[swift wharf]

i can see the point ya

just make uhhhh crystal ball work like an altar like one of the qol mods idk i think its fargo that does that

[formal sphinx]

I like the altar shrine idea.

[fossil finch]

we still should do a mod pack smp eci

[swift wharf]

never

i have trauma

[formal sphinx]

I'd say it could remove all other altars to make the shrine more special but that would remove an easy source of souls in hardmode. lol

[drowsy plank]

true!! (even if i agree that it would be cooler)

[blazing kettle]

just make a corruption/crimson planetoid

[fossil finch]

cried

[drowsy plank]

mfw when "Evil Islands are unique sky islands that contain content of the Evil Biome that was not chosen."

[swift wharf]

i can literally never finsh a modded smp

[drowsy plank]

ive finished 3

=)

[fossil finch]

i can literally never finish a minecraft world to begin with

[formal sphinx]

There's already an island, unless you mean one matching the actual world evil rather than the opposite evil.

[fossil finch]

but thats not the fun part

if it was youd never have fun because of draconium

[blazing kettle]

1. yeah sorta like that
2. i was being satire

[swift wharf]

:killsyou:

[drowsy plank]

lmao imagine if the altar like. upgraded after beatin evils2 so those bosses actually felt more significant

[fossil finch]

whats your secret to finishing things

insane

the altar is now level 2

you can now attune yourself to something idk

[drowsy plank]

i pester everyone into playing every day for a week straight and also being good at video games

i havent done one in like 2 years bc of school tho

[fossil finch]

thatd convince me

so sad i dont have a good pc to play actual gown up modpacks

[formal sphinx]

My actual suggestion is comparatively quite small.

[cobalt pewter]

....are evil altars really that bad?

I can see demon altar because chasms suck (and they should be reworked)

but crimson altar is like piss easy even on day 1, just go to crimson

[small timber]

But imagine having to move 1 metre from your base

I think each boss should just drop 9999 of each of their materials that can be used to craft every single drop that they unlock

That way we can stop wasting time on irrelevant content like farming so we can fight bosses

[cobalt pewter]

the sugg really do be giving this vibe

[drowsy plank]

it's because people complain about it

altars already spawn near spawn anyway

this is just to make it easier

[cobalt pewter]

again, I only find this an issue with demon altars because their intended discovery spot is garbage compared to crimson altars

but it's an inherent issue to corruption chasms

so like

lo

[minor spindle]

just like go to a corruption and craft the thing, it's not hard

[drowsy plank]

it's hard enough we've gotten multiple suggestions about it

at least this keeps the spirit of the idea

plus i think it's neat

[swift wharf]

lamo

[hollow shell]

going to kill

[blazing kettle]

@velvet echo big ol' no to both, infernum is a seperate entity from calamity, and gifs arent allowed because they are are memey in nature and they are easy to spam

[hollow shell]

https://discord.gg/infernum-mod

[blazing kettle]

also no explaination to the sugg and no formatting at all

[hollow shell]

Indeed
We don't control Infernum

Also, discord server suggestions should be DM'd to the Staff Mail

[blazing kettle]

is that why gifs arent allowed by the way?

[hollow shell]

Pretty sure it varies heavily based on the channel

[arctic atlas]

nah they should actually fix mp infernum

[frosty trellis]

Inf works in mp....?

[arctic atlas]

barely

[hollow shell]

Go tell the Infernum devs that (though I'm sure they're sick of hearing it)

Useless to complain about it here because we are not the Infernum devs, we can do nothing about it

[arctic atlas]

ok and

joking

[hollow shell]

?

[atomic shell]

this is truly the suggestion of all time

[drowsy plank]

explodes you with my mind for bad worst sugg of all time

[crude geode]

Sometimes I wish infernum was in the don’ts doc

[atomic shell]

[grave zinc]

@small timber - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Buff and Rework Ninja Armor]

It has been reviewed by the devs, and for one reason or another they decided it would be best not to implement it.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[glass arch]

damn

[grave zinc]

@glass arch - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Allow Astrum Deus to drop meld blobs]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[glass arch]

YOOOOOOOOO

[grave zinc]

@lost valley - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Remove the dye items from the health upgrades]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[glass arch]

based devs

[grave zinc]

@small timber - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Rename the 'Stardust' Item in Calamity]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@drowsy plank - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Give the Megashark upgrade line an actual Water debuff instead of a Fire one]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[glass arch]

yoooooo

[lost valley]

based

[small timber]

mfw 9% crit armor

(did they decline it because I put the rogue armor idea in)

[hollow shell]

That's cool

[crude geode]

Clearly they declined it because you put the image in

[grave zinc]

@lost valley - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Remove the dye items from the health upgrades]

It has officially been implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@glass arch - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Allow Astrum Deus to drop meld blobs]

It has officially been implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[lost valley]

👍🏻

[hollow shell]

Congratz

[cobalt pewter]

realer

[cobalt pewter]

cool!

[swift wharf]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/947265544690757653/1070045550814179478/XD.png?width=625&height=676

[hollow shell]

guh

[small timber]

you need to emphasize the suggestion more, it sounds you want to basically prevent you from changing slots if you right click on ground (which can be very annoying during combat where you press right click on ground and nothing happen)
from what I see I assume you are talking about the fact that when you hold right click it swap the slot before being attuned

[hollow shell]

This is intentional @ashen warren
When you change attunements it's like a queue system
like, in sequence, Primary - Secondary go like this:
Start: None - None
Attune Snow: Snow - None
Attune Desert: Desert - Snow
Attune Forest: Forest - Desert

You see it always moves from primary to secondary

iirc

You lose whatever was in the secondary slot when you do a new attunement
What was previously primary now becomes secondary

(and of course you can swap em at any time and their roles flip)

Yeah, wiki says it too

[cobalt pewter]

the question is

is it obvious that the queue system happened on screen

or do the players need to find that out themselves by testing out or go thru wiki

[hollow shell]

The system can be suggested to be changed, or made more clear to the player
But this current sugg is worded like it's a fix, like the current method is unintended jank

[cobalt pewter]

fair enough

it's more of a question of mine than trying to defend the sugg anyways

(I never touched the biome blades yet)

[hollow shell]

I was around for the whole development process of every single one of them, and I used them all throughout one of my most recent PTs
So I suppose I know em better than most
But, probably not as well as like, testers and no-hitters who actually care about minmaxing and stuff

[half imp]

nooo

hey at least we lost dye items

and water debuff for minishark line

[half imp]

And this makes sense tbh

I wouldn't want that changed, I feel it's better than the alternative

[bright crag]

This was discussed
It was kinda just

¯_(ツ)_/¯

I did propose one thing we could do with that set

[swift wharf]

ninja will forever stay in the abyss

[bright crag]

I dunno if it'll be done

[swift wharf]

it is now a vanity set

like 1.0

[small timber]

I mean tbf

even if they just like, make the set bonus "+40% movement speed" at least it will be usable in some kind of speed minmax strat

it probably will not be super good because your offensive stat will be shit but yeah, better than completely useless

[half imp]

yeah

[bright crag]

Building on that speed was my suggestion

Giving it an activated ability which significantly increased your speed

Kinda like an activated Panic Necklace, without being on-hit

Just a big burst of speed

[half imp]

ooh

[glass arch]

hehe yes

[half imp]

dang my deus dropping meld blobs mod gonna be useless

good

[fervent orbit]

no it wont we still have an unknown time until 1.4.4 tml

[worldly basalt]

for me, spawning providence and going in the desert portal crashed the game in multiplayer, is that not normal?

[half imp]

Portal is normal

subworlds don't work in MP

[worldly basalt]

sad

[half imp]

idk about provi

[worldly basalt]

other than those 2 everything worked fine at least

[atomic shell]

aren’t shrines pretty much getting overhauled next update

[versed cape]

thoughts on my suggestion?

[versed cape]

idk, havent heard of that although im not too active here

[golden tulip]

your argument is rng but your suggested solution is more rng

[versed cape]

yeah

thats the point of shrines

encourage rng and exploring the world

[worldly basalt]

they're going to be a lot bigger i think

and the onyx drill one will have some way to track it down iirc?

[drowsy plank]

awful sugg

they aren't gonna make shrines easier to find

they already confirmed that

they're already bigger and im p sure onyx is getting a complete overhaul so like

this is just a waste of a slot if it even passes at all

furthermore, at that point you could just... use normal exploration tools?? like said tele pots? without this weird random hidden mechanic? idk

[worldly basalt]

isn't it that the top 20% voted get sent to the devs? so it'll still help more stuff get through

[drowsy plank]

yeah what im saying is if this gets in the top 20 it's gonna be a waste because other similar suggs have already been rejected

[versed cape]

what? the point is that youre just improving tele pots functionality in doing exactly that

[worldly basalt]

well if its a bad sugg then it's not going to be in the 20%

[drowsy plank]

no you're just tacking on some weird hidden stat, and again, they already said they aren't going to make shrines easier to find with any sort of specific shrine finding item, which is what you'd be turning tele pots into

[cobalt pewter]

this is an odd sugg

[versed cape]

idk why you think the change is so weird considering every little random thing calamity already changes

[drowsy plank]

if you want to randomly have a chance to find the shrines just... use tele pots as they exist now. this would just be bloat and weird

[versed cape]

bloat??

how

[blazing kettle]

tele potions already teleport you near heart crystals or a gold chest

this would just be an exoansion on that

[versed cape]

^

[worldly basalt]

???

what

is that a thing?

[blazing kettle]

yes

[worldly basalt]

is that from calam or vanilla?

[blazing kettle]

vanilla

[drowsy plank]

then why explain it like you did? with the random extra rng tacked on? just add shrines to the table of things that attract tele pots

[worldly basalt]

when did they add that?? wasn't it just teleporting to a random open space

[blazing kettle]

said open spaces always have treasure near them

[worldly basalt]

i've been teleported to somewhere else on the surface tons of times, no crystals or chests there

[versed cape]

because explaining a suggestion is extremely hard maybe? I dont know literally everything about anything and what people do and dont know

[blazing kettle]

even if its in the walls or not inmediately visible

[worldly basalt]

theres no gold chests or life crystals on the surface though

[drowsy plank]

okay wait where is that cause
https://terraria.wiki.gg/wiki/Teleportation_Potion

i dont see it on here

i feel like that would be a pretty important thing to include

[worldly basalt]

yea

[drowsy plank]

im pretty sure tele pots really are truly random

[worldly basalt]

the only clauses are about avoiding danger

[drowsy plank]

which is again, why the whole shrine thing would be really weird

[blazing kettle]

i swear this is a thing be ayse most of the time there are valuables at the locations

[worldly basalt]

almost never for me

[drowsy plank]

ive been teleported 100 ft to the right of spawn on unexplored maps

im pretty sure this is just confirmation bias

[worldly basalt]

there's life crystals almost everywhere underground so if youre teleported to a random cave there's a good chance at finding one, but thats not because of the potion

[eternal escarp]

prolly confirmation bias, then

[drowsy plank]

i feel like we're overlooking the real issue here which is that caldev already said they arent going to do something like this

[blazing kettle]

true

cant believe that i got confirmation biased by rng

[drowsy plank]

crazy almost like that's how confirm bias works

[swift wharf]

what if you wanted to explore the world

but god said

teleported to already found shrine

[blazing kettle]

its uncanny

[drowsy plank]

true tho!!!!!

[swift wharf]

me when shrines are supposed to be found by exploring normally

[worldly basalt]

always destroy any chest you've already looted 👍

[blazing kettle]

well anyways im gonna gwt back to shiny hunting zorua

[versed cape]

it would be really easy to fix that issue

[swift wharf]

me when there's no issue

[versed cape]

what?

[drowsy plank]

fixing it it just not implementing it

[swift wharf]

i will make a shrine copypasta

[worldly basalt]

remove shrines, you'll never get teleported to an already found shrine again 🤯

[blazing kettle]

make everything craftable

ez

[swift wharf]

Anyways the point is that they're supposed to be hard to found

[versed cape]

doesnt that contradict the fact that theyre also planning to make the onyx drill shrine trackable

[swift wharf]

Adding an item to help with that would ruin their meaning

that is because it is special

not the rule

[worldly basalt]

for granite, marble, underground, mushroom you just have to get lucky, you cant really look for them you just have to stumble into them

[drowsy plank]

onyx is becoming a draedon lab im pretty sure

which is a whole nother beast

[swift wharf]

They're a "Hey, I found this, nice!" item, not something that needs an item to help finding it

[worldly basalt]

they're going to make the shrine items good in 1.4.4 arent they?

it's not sad to miss most of them now since theyre not very useful

[swift wharf]

can we put shrine finders in the sugg dont

[drowsy plank]

they're reworking them, yes. good? we'll have to see lmao

[worldly basalt]

they should make them even worse that would be funny

you open a shrine and get a glorified shackle

[swift wharf]

trinket of shi-t

[distant gyro]

real

[swift wharf]

and yeah fixing rng with more rng is

[distant gyro]

shrine finder but when you find it the chest is gone

[swift wharf]

TRUE

[drowsy plank]

shrine finder that requires the item from the shrine to be crafted

[swift wharf]

only good suggestions

[drowsy plank]

also this would totally end up being a wiki mechanic which calamity is trying to avoid

(mechanic that is only documented on the wiki and not in game)

[swift wharf]

teleporting to a shrine should send you to the last layer of the abyss after 3 seconds

i hope that being able to teleport into the abyss never gets fixed

[drowsy plank]

it is very funny :)

[swift wharf]

a real skill issue

[drowsy plank]

i remember someone tried to get abyss tps fixed to help hardcore players and the counterargument was "why are you using tele pots in hardcore"

[worldly basalt]

there's already precedent for fixing that since teleporting to the dungeon isn't possible i think

[drowsy plank]

same with the temple yeah

[swift wharf]

yea but it is funney

[worldly basalt]

good idea, reverse the dungeon and temple clauses

[drowsy plank]

LOL

[swift wharf]

[drowsy plank]

tbh tbh sounds like a red change fr fr

[swift wharf]

gfb change

removes all teleportation rules

[half imp]

trinket of Chi my beloved

so incredibly niche but 15% ADR is so nice sometimes

[small timber]

Calamity should rework teleportation to be able to teleport you into blocks

[worldly basalt]

or into places without floors

[small timber]

If they fixed momentum then it would had actually been usable, but instead it got reworked so

[half imp]

chi also just is unfairly good for summonner compared to other classes

[small timber]

When trying it out you can have ip to 4 seconds of "still moving" deapite standing still if you didnt press the opposite direction button, because no one knows

Chances are you will just think you have the bonus because it is so unnoticeable unless you look directly at weapon damage number

[half imp]

or the buff slots

[cobalt pewter]

shrimply nerf the effect when the player has minion buff

[half imp]

it's not super broken

still incredibly niche

just better than other classes get

[swift wharf]

huh

[grim tusk]

Im unsure about this suggestion

[worldly basalt]

it wants them to have slightly wider tunnels

[swift wharf]

I'm not sure if I follow

Can't you just throw another turtle

[grim tusk]

^

Yea that suggestion has barely any reasoning

@hollow shell ❗ or not?

[swift wharf]

• aren't they like
  very cheap

[hollow shell]

uhh idk

[worldly basalt]

they cost 1 gel and some wulfrum iirc, thats like my entire life savings

[swift wharf]

[worldly basalt]

wait nvm its 5 gel

[hollow shell]

I can definitely envision the issue, but like
all you gotta do is throw a second one, or go down the tunnel while holding LMB with Smart Cursor, and it'll widen it

[worldly basalt]

super unaffordable ong

[grim tusk]

So maybe ❗ until he addresses those points? Yea im doing it

[hollow shell]

@steep iron Do you really need a single turtle to make a fully functioning walkable tunnel

The pre-boss hand-crafted cheap item that crafts in batches of 3

[steep iron]

yes

[hollow shell]

You can just

break the block with smart cursor and Left Click

[sinful violet]

aren't the angles weird anyway

[steep iron]

that requires milliseconds of work though!

[grim tusk]

You should address those points Rover is making on the suggestion

[hollow shell]

So do you agree the sugg is too weak as it is, then

[sinful violet]

it doesn't seem like there'd be a perfect way to address every angle you can throw it at unless you make it unrealistically wide

[steep iron]

its just something that bugs me idk what else to say, i think itd make life a bit easier

[swift wharf]

stop being lazy

it's a pre boss mining tool

[sinful violet]

use scarab bombs :thum

[grim tusk]

And that is vague reasoning

[steep iron]

the turtles are made as a way to be lazy and not have to mine entirely manually early game

[grim tusk]

The suggestion needs to stand strong against arguments, yours does not (although you still improved it at least and it seems more valid now)

[ornate kestrel]

Who actually uses the stupid things

[swift wharf]

Just because something makes your life easy doesn't mean it needs to be even lazier

[ornate kestrel]

Scarab bombs are better anyway

[swift wharf]

it's almost like scarab bombs are meant to be obtained later

[grim tusk]

@ashen warren you should add reasoning as to why its a problem (or make it clearer)

[ornate kestrel]

You're already wasting your time playing the game anyway, might as well spend less than a second mining an extra block

[swift wharf]

roverquote.png

[grim tusk]

I removed the exclam on decald’s sugg for now, its at least passable now with the small edit

[grim tusk]

[drowsy plank]

the suggestion ever

[swift wharf]

is discord not working for me because the suggestion is still the same

[drowsy plank]

it looks like this rn;

Whenever I use the digging turtles diagonally I always hit my head on the block that isn't mined by the turtle. Giving the turtles an extra block of range could help mitigate this issue. ```

[grim tusk]

I see an edited and the last sentence was changed

[swift wharf]

it is still the same

lmao

[steep iron]

i was changing it a lil bit

[grim tusk]

Yea now it seems fine

[steep iron]

ok cool

[swift wharf]

mfw the entire reasoning is "i hit my head on the block"

truly

[grim tusk]

Although yes address what eclipse said as that part still is vague

[steep iron]

mk

[swift wharf]

i still think it's laziness because the mod already adds other ways to make mining less painful

[grim tusk]

This one is pretty minor tbh

[golden tulip]

sounds like qol tbh

its fixing a minor inconvenience

[steep iron]

yeah

basically

[steep iron]

but the whole point in the turtles is to make paths to go through to get ores so adding the extra range just helps fulfil its purpose a little bit more, also as i said they are made to be lazy while building a hellevator and whatnot

[golden tulip]

yea the point of those turtles is to create paths and if you cant properly walk through the paths then

whats the point

[steep iron]

exactly

[golden tulip]

if you throw another one it will look weird and split off and create its own branch

so i agree with this sugg

[half imp]

I mean

it's a valid reason

[steep iron]

it just helps fulfil the point of path building turtle things

[golden sonnet]

Its not a needed change, and might not be worth a recommendation spot, but I think it would be a nice QoL change and make the turtles better at their intended use

[swift wharf]

you could just use the better version of them but that's fair ig

[blazing kettle]

ftw moment?

[glass arch]

death mode moment

[blazing kettle]

oh dewth mode

[fervent orbit]

they have size changes? how have i never noticed

probably cuz i always leave cryo for last and do calclone after plant where i can wreck it easily

[glass arch]

yeah death brothers are like 1.5x the size of death calamitas, although i havent ever noticed cryos shield being smaller

[drowsy plank]

short calamitas real

[pulsar marlin]

Smolamitas Clone

[small timber]

I ran out of idea for the 3rd effect so I will just drop it

[golden sonnet]

None of the accessories that were previously part of HoTE are worth using now

[swift wharf]

chaos stone:

aero stone is also rlly good

[golden sonnet]

Aero stone is just identical to vital jelly, which is pre boss, and arguably worse than frog leg, also pre boss

And I tried chaos stone, but I feel like chaos stone isn't good enough to take a slot for, and astral injection does essentially the same thing without taking a slot. (Although chaos is earlier in progression, but only by 2 bosses)

I could be wrong on chaos stone, but cryo, aero, and bloom are all mid at best

[fervent orbit]

aero stone is better than vital jelly tho

[half imp]

so true

aero stone is great

chaos stone is niche

cryo stone is kinda insane but only with some exploiting

bloom stone is mid

[golden sonnet]

The only difference between vital jelly is the flight time, which doesn't matter until post skeletron, where it needs to compete with magiluminescence, harpy ring, and the next boss you kill gives access to BoB

Tldr, aero is only better post skeletron, where you shouldn't be using jelly or aero

[fervent orbit]

so youre telling me that u cant use both harpy and aero stone? plus the bob thing doesnt matter since you can still use both accessories in hardmode where wings outclass.

(also wdym by next boss gives access to bob)

[half imp]

bob is pre skeletron

now, competing with magi is true

magi is also pre boss and kinda just... the best for horizontal movment

[fervent orbit]

also aero has flight time which magi doesnt

so its less competing and more like being used for other purposes

[half imp]

due to % movement speed doing near nothing and magi having 1.25x accel (one of, if not the highest accel boost in the game)

[fervent orbit]

does the accel work on wings btw?

[half imp]

yes

[fervent orbit]

cool

[half imp]

all horizontal accel

afaik

might even work on mounts

[golden sonnet]

I confused BoB needing arialite, and BoB needing purified gel, my bad

I still feel aero is far too similar/has too much competition to justify it's existence.

[swift wharf]

me when i tell people that you can use two accessories

[golden sonnet]

There is a difference between "similar" accessories and "obtained later in the game, and only has one additional affect that cannot be used until post skeletron"

I'm not super passionate about this, It's by no means the worst offender in vanilla or calamity, but it just feels like an exact copy of an existing thing that just contributes to bloat

[drowsy plank]

aero, jelly, leg, and magni all have different uses, the main issue is the movement speed nerfs make this less obvious

[golden sonnet]

And my comment was more focused on the other accessories left over by being removed from recipies, such as chaos, bloom, and cryo stone, as well as arguably archaic powder

[golden sonnet]

I mean, magi is horizontal based, but jelly, leg, and aero are all for vertical movement

[drowsy plank]

lmao lets just focus on the stone for now, there are plenty of stat sticks that need work in cal atm and i think that's quite know at this point

[drowsy plank]

i mean they all cover different vertical boosts

i like to use frog until soaring a lot of the time because of the jump speed giving quicker take offs, like out of all the bloat items, these are the least offensive

[golden sonnet]

I just think aero stone is too similar to vital jelly, I just mentioned frog leg and other accessories to show the competition these items already have without each other

[drowsy plank]

i think aero works better as an all around, while vital serves as a preBoss + component for grand gelatin

aero is like the every man, grand jelly gives up some of the movement for other effects, harpy has more flight for no jump, frog goes all in on vertical, and magni goes all in on horizontal

[golden sonnet]

Like I've said though, jelly and aero are identical until post skele, where if you want flight time you can just use Harpie ring

[small timber]

aero is good because it is jump speed + flight time (specifically), frog leg or harpy both only provide 1 of them

generally you want to have some flight and some jump speed; aerostone coincidentally giving both which is what makes it good (treat it as "lite soaring insigina")

chaos stone tbh on minmax situation, except for super mana draining weapon like Yharim's Crystal, just using Permafrost' Concoction is better or for end game, use a sigil of calamitas (when ethereal talisman is available); tldr of chaos stone is that if a weapon is not drinking a mana pot for less than 5 seconds (aka you have 10s mana sickness constantly) it is worse

[drowsy plank]

fledgling exist

[golden sonnet]

I disagree, they are just worse than cloud baloons, and not worth fishing for

[small timber]

cryostone currently is not worth using because of tesla potion (outside of exploit);

bloom stone is straight up underpowered

[drowsy plank]

cool, they do still exist

so my point still stands

and saying they're identical is just outright wrong

plus what xpc said

also this isnt an argument about how viable fledge is, the point is wings exist when they're obtainable and aero and balloons interactions with the two are different, and harpies and leg each only provide half of the effect you might want

so yeah out of all the stones, aero is the most okay rn

[small timber]

and generally if a lot of people are arguing against it then chances are that means at the very least it have some niche

if everyone is like "yeah this shit sucks" chances are it is bad

[golden sonnet]

I agree with this, as mentioned above, but the least removable of things to be removed, is still removable

[drowsy plank]

no

removable??

[small timber]

currently most removable is cryo because it serve no purpose

[drowsy plank]

bro have you LOOKED at preHM accessories

[small timber]

its core effect is replaced with tesla potion, otherwise you have a true melee range inferno potion accessory

[golden sonnet]

Stool : )

[drowsy plank]

vanilla

im talking about the like 8 stat sticks cal adds that are just outright awful

even if aero is stat stick-y at least it has a niche

[small timber]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/17SUHBgjAjO2BKks2WkgJ7M4kGQFcCEgRTPhfttLid_o/edit?usp=sharing I straight up have a doc prepared for bad accessory

(rotten brain is definitely one of them)

[drowsy plank]

when's the last time you unironically used like. radiant ooze

[small timber]

radiant ooze will actually be good if not because it is available at such an awkward position

you can use it on WoF (due to the chipping nature of the fight) but in HM you just get defense instead

[glass arch]

what does radiant ooze do again

[small timber]

4 life regen, basically; at night only
and emit light if you count that

[glass arch]

could be used for mechs but 4 regen is pretty low

[golden sonnet]

Holy crap this is based

[drowsy plank]

4 regen is 2 hp/s right?

id argue ooze gets outclassed by charm of myths which is avaliable at the same tier

and is unconditional

[small timber]

yeah charm of myth outclass it massively because turns out potions good

[drowsy plank]

shocking

id say the first step is kick the night condition to the curb

[golden sonnet]

Honestly, just post this whole doc in the suggestions

[small timber]

I posted in #1042197406776827914 which was more appropriate

but yeah I felt incline to post again since some like void of extinction and camper are on their way to slowly get fixed

[swift wharf]

you forgot spore sac

[golden sonnet]

True

[drowsy plank]

lmao i just noticed

why has cal not capped mimic combo accessories to like

T2 mechs minimum

[swift wharf]

[drowsy plank]

at least then they'd stop being so auto upgraded

[golden sonnet]

I mean, they are post one mech because anvil

So it isn't an "auto" upgrade

But close enough

Also, maybe I'm dumb but sand shark necklace seems worse than class emblems like 90% of the time. Unless you are using fast attacking lower damage weapons I feel like 9% damage is better than 10 armor penetration.

[drowsy plank]

well

that's the thing

you'd only use it with fast attacking weapons

in which case, like all armor piercing it's kinda dumb

lmao

like you wouldnt use daawnlight with a minigun

also i was so used to cal moving recipies i didnt realize they didnt move mimic... wait no you can get myths prehardmode

[drowsy plank]

they use tinkerer's

[small timber]

spore sac is to be buffed next patch by vanilla

(and it actually is ok useful, just not for bosses)

[golden sonnet]

Wtf why, calamity should probably change that lmao

[drowsy plank]

bc vanilla likes to pretend crafting station uses are consistent

[small timber]

tldr is a 2 damage weapon +15% add 1 damage, while on armor pen it is +5= 7

of course you dont exactly have 2 damage weapon, but just for ease of explanation
(yes it is +5 right now and go over base damage because it is bugged, fixed next patch)

[drowsy plank]

P90

[golden sonnet]

Yeah, it's worse if your weapon has over 110 base

[drowsy plank]

i mean if all nearby weapons have like 500 and that 110 has like 1 usetime then

idk

[small timber]

not necessarily, even lower base damage weapon it can already be better (because you have damage bonus); the thing is enemy have defense and also that Armor Pen scale off attack speed and on-hit effect better

[golden sonnet]

Speed shouldn't matter, I could be wrong tho

[small timber]

things like Rogue's Nanotech all benefit from armor pen while largely don't care about your damage bonus

[glass arch]

faster weapons typically have lower base damage to compensate

[small timber]

I think easiest example is divine retribution, sec

[golden sonnet]

I'm aware, just saying it shouldn't scale with speed

[drowsy plank]

it doesn't, that's just how the math works out

[small timber]

this one, for example in the right one I used Sand Shark Tooth Necklace (not even Reaper Tooth Necklace) over Destroyer Emblem

speed do not just come from attack speed, but also on-hit effect (which often have soft caps);

Armor pen effectively bypass the softcap while damage increased is capped by it

[swift wharf]

that looks wrong

oh i didnt read the next two lines

i thought that it was fixed a while ago

[golden sonnet]

Wouldn't 10 armor penetration result in 5 more damage? How is that a bug?

[small timber]

it is currently giving 10

tldr

[golden sonnet]

Oh, like adding 10 damage, the 5 you said was the intended, I see.

[small timber]

5 is intended, 10 is currently how it works yes

[swift wharf]

if the enemy has 0 defense, what happens?

[glass arch]

nothing

[swift wharf]

good

[small timber]

(and you can see how just +10 is so much better than destroyer emblem, which is why armor pen tend to be tuned down)

[small timber]

it add +5 to damage if the enemy has 5 defense, funnily enough; but not if they have 0; only 2 defense it only add 2 etc

[golden sonnet]

Why. Terraria is such a mess

[glass arch]

it makes sense

[swift wharf]

if it added damage when they had 0 defense then something would be really, really wrong

[golden sonnet]

I misunderstood what they were saying, I understand now. I thought they were saying the numbers were after 0

[small timber]

it is because armor pen (AP) currently scale twice

against 0 defense enemy AP is useless

if you have shark tooth necklace against 5 defense enemy:
intended: 5 defense = 2.5 damage reduction, you ignore 5 defense you gain 2.5 flat damage per hit
bugged: this is x2, = you gain 5 flat damage per hit instead

basically you can have 50% of your armor pen added to your base damage (even if all defense are already negated)

#1042197406776827914 message this is the link if you want to check out

[golden sonnet]

No, I understand I thought you were saying if they had 5 defense, you would reduce it to zero then deal 5 extra damage

I understand how armor penetration works, just haven't had enough sleep and misinterpreted your words

[hollow ridge]

This is a good idea tbh

Kinda a common thing to do that tho

[drowsy plank]

what did u mean by this lol

[hollow ridge]

Of course you are gonna make an upgrade if its possible

[swift wharf]

instant upgrades.....

[small timber]

I will be honest chances are this suggestion will just make these accessories unused

putrid is used on its own on ranger so it is an exception (stalker quiver is bow only, putrid is for guns/others), cross necklace is basically star cloak anyway, flesh knuckle is like ok/debatable; for everything else they will just end up never being used

even philo stone is pretty bad after next patch nerf where you can no longer swap it, it really need that +2 life regen from charm of myth to be good (coincidentally I just calculated in #1042197406776827914 ); for others as you notice only those that are already used on their own (even now that there is combination) will be used as solo

like who tf will use titan glove by itself, even on true melee just feral claw will be better

[drowsy plank]

i mean that's why i included caveats for

the exact ones you mentioned

plus power glove still instas into beserkers

which is only mildly less awful than insta into mech like it did for a while there

[golden sonnet]

Feral claws don't boost true melee damage though, nor weapon size. Power is strictly better

So titan is still good for true melee

[small timber]

and I think this suggestion missed the point of these accessories: they are usually from various different sources that are hard to collect; biome mimics are rare (and for those who dont wiki chances are they never know how to use key of light/night), and normal mimics is only this easy because calamity buffed it to drop more than 1 at a time

on balance many of them are never supposed to be used on their own because they are set up as a "reward for grinding" (in vanilla); separating them will just leave them underpowered and unused

sometime suggestions ("separte instant upgrade") like this I agree with but in this case this dont help anything

[small timber]

true melee damage is actually just melee damage but only for true melee weapon (it is additive not multiplicative); so feral claw in many case actually will be better; you can argue the size but feral claw is more useful across melee just because it work on projectile melee too

(and I always feel the size increase is abit small early on unless the weapon by itself already have large size)

[golden sonnet]

I'm confused, isn't power glove a direct upgrade?

[small timber]

yes but in the suggestion it will be moved to post-Mech, so you will have to compare Titan Glove to Feral Claw

[golden sonnet]

They said power would stay tier 1 though, just berserker tier 2. And power is an upgrade to feral, even if only on size and true damage.

I do agree with your point though, it doesn't really make any accessories more usable or change much load out wise

[drowsy plank]

hardmode mirrors preHM. preHM does give the option to slam your accessories together preBoss but still requires you to at least beat an event. obviously it'd be weird to lock this behind like... pirates. so lock it behind T1 mechs. the whole point of HM is that it's a scramble around the world to get stuff, but that doesnt mean everything should be auto-upgradable. i mean cal puts BoB behind aerialite after all. the whole seperated mech tiers thing desperately needs more content spread anyway, and this is one of many ways to do so

at least like this it'll feel a bit more gradual

[small timber]

what does it help other than "yo they are separated now"?
the suggestion have to include bandaid fix for the underpowered solo accessory but now that they are buffed to be "viable on their own" then they will have to be inherited into the upgrade; then you have an overpowered accessory post 1 boss;
or you make them dont inherit and people complain about why the combination is a downgrade

[drowsy plank]

like do u ever even really change ur accessories between mechs? weapons sure, but accessories? maybe wings i guess?

[small timber]

the suggestion just feel forceful and "do it for the sake of doing it" without really consideration of how much does the items included actually fit the idea

[small timber]

a large part of post-ML dont have accessory changes, it is not exactly a rare case;
in mech tier Hardmode is the upgrade tier, there is no need to force it between mechs

[drowsy plank]

i feel like they fit just fine, i pointed out that things might need small buffs in some cases

[drowsy plank]

feels more like an issue with post-ML accessories (DoG bloat be like)

[small timber]

if it is a small buff people will still not use it; the situation you end up with is still only use them after they are combined (just 1 boss later); it dont help with making the accessories useful

if it is a big buff then when they combine (1 boss later again) their power level will have to be considered due to inheritence

so you are stucked with mediocre buff to items that will already really not being use

tldr my rationale is that these items are supposed to be used after they are combined, so balance the combined item rather than separating the components

[drowsy plank]

yeah and im saying that's dumb

[small timber]

which is why I reemphasize this point ^

[drowsy plank]

the "do it" is so that mech tier can have more variety and these items can have more of an individual identity

it's not just "for the sake of it" like if ur just gonna ignore my reasoning i can't do much about that

i mention this in the sugg so

[small timber]

the entire basis of the suggestion is that "I feel mech tier should have accessory upgrade", so yes it is "do it" for me

[drowsy plank]

ok cool

lol

like cal is trying to seperate its own items to have more of an identity, hence the butchering of most of the giant combo accessories

i feel like extending that logic to vanilla ones makes sense AND would help with the lack of accessory content in the newly split mech tiers, without needing to rely on completely new items

[small timber]

ok imo there are several consideration here (I will be off soon so I will type all at once):

1. I think the most obvious example is Ankh Shield, while it might not feel like it a lot of mimic accessories are supposed to work like Ankh Shield component because you are expected to upgrade them; they dont really have an effect that is unique, interesting or powerful enough to be use on their own because they didn't expect the player to use them on their own;

2. calamity culled ultimate accessory didn't really help individual accessories stand up more, more often or not it is just deleting unnecessary overcomplicated effect that don't do anything in the accessory and is just amplifying grinding (eg: Drat bow, though it is more of a weapon)

3. what builds identity is its own effect, in this case because they are so close in progression (1 boss apart) you have to consider inheritence of the effect, it cannot do it Core of the Blood God (which basically deleted Blood Pact during the combination) and Elemental Quiver (basically deleted Quiver) style; as stated these items are bad on their own so they warrant massive buffs that will have to be included in their upgrade as otherwise they are a downgrade

4. I forgot what I wanted to talk about so I just insert one of my opinion here: mech tier do not really need accessory upgrade, you are already constantly bombarded with weapons and armor upgrades to keep track of + other mech alts that I dont think there is a necessity to insert accessory upgrade here; you dont have to always upgrade all gears available for it to feel like upgrading, to certain degree it is just overload

5. opinion 2: if you want to separate them should be further than 1 tier apart, so they can be buffed accordingly to function on their own (refer point 3))

the only one I will agree should be separated in some way is Berserker's Glove (power glove I think should still be pre-Mech) because flesh knuckle is severely buffed; is flesh knuckle use on its own? not really, but berzerker glove is a bit too good

but yeah I will be off now

[drowsy plank]

tbf a lot of the ankh components are obtainable in preHM now anyway so ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[swift wharf]

ankh shield is so silly

[drowsy plank]

i guess it's just the fact a lot of calamity accessories ended up following the design logic of these items u say should only exist as materials

[swift wharf]

they should give ankh charm an unique effect

Keyword: charm

[drowsy plank]

makes me wonder why they're even accessories in the first place lmao

lol

and i mean

we could just move them to T3

if one boss isn't enough

plus people usually fight a LOT more stuff because of the sheer number of bosses and events and other such things available right at the start of hardmode

the more i look over it the more i just feel like this support my point even more; seperating upgrades would REDUCE overload, calamity removed those accessories because they were useless and just grind, which you admit is what these are, but they're vanilla so we can't remove them, so what's the next best thing? and the biggest caveat i feel like you're still overlooking is the fact i said to buff the weakest ones if they do end up doing this for things like Star Cloak and Philo Stone

[crude geode]

who tf is gonna mine out their entire world of silt and clay

[cobalt pewter]

I don't see why one can't craft mud into clay in water

but yeah who's gonna mine them

[lavish condor]

Is this really Calamity's job to fix?

[cobalt pewter]

and yes that's a point too

if you're so concerned about that just play journey mode

it's the superior mode anyway

[golden sonnet]

not trying to be rude, but like, has anyone ever had this issue?

[cobalt pewter]

no

[lavish condor]

I feel like if you need so much clay that you mine the entire world out you can just world hop

[crude geode]

Theoretically, if the player were to
but no player is going to because that's incredibly dense

[cobalt pewter]

this is very much a first-world problem

[fossil finch]

Calamity Suggesters on their way to fix problems that do not exist and that never apply

[cobalt pewter]

they better fix deez nuts first

[crude geode]

what's first

[cobalt pewter]

byeah it's a weird sugg

[fossil finch]

Renewability would be nice except that like,,,,, this is not happening and everyone that could ever care about running out is gonna use journey or cheat sheet

[cobalt pewter]

@polar bison read above

[golden sonnet]

also, by the time you have mined the entire world of silt, wtf are you going to do with Throwing Bricks, Ancient Fossil, or hadal stew

[cobalt pewter]

Throwing Bricks are clay

[polar bison]

I'm just saying it is possible to deplete the world of clay and silt.

[cobalt pewter]

but yeah

[cobalt pewter]

that's

okay sit down

[lavish condor]

It is possible, but a world will have thousands of silt/clay

[polar bison]

It is theoretical. Near impossible, but still possible.

Perhaps just crafting mud with dirt

[cobalt pewter]

WHEN would one realistically run out of these two in a normal playthrough

[lavish condor]

dirt is also not renewable

[cobalt pewter]

WHY not make another world

[lavish condor]

afaik

[fossil finch]

i feel you just want to have clay easier

[lavish condor]

Yet has anyone ran out of dirt

[cobalt pewter]

WHY is this a problem

[golden sonnet]

TRUE

[polar bison]

shimmer and using dirt bombs

dirt bombs reap more dirt than it takes to craft them

[lavish condor]

oh yeah dirt bombs

[golden sonnet]

solution, make a new world

[fossil finch]

It's still theoretically possible to run out before having dirt bi

[cobalt pewter]

in that case just give clay blocks a recipe, but even then it's not really a calamity sugg, moreso a small mod someone can make in 5 mins

[lavish condor]

A player could theoretically drain all the shimmer from their world and theoretically mine all the dirt and trash it, losing the ability to make dirt bombs

[polar bison]

I bring up the issue of renewability quite a bit, and am often met with the "what if we get rid of everything" scenario.

[lavish condor]

no more dirt

[fossil finch]

Anyways it's not a problem that needs fixing anyone who could ever care can use chest sheet or journey mode and none items it theoretically locks off are that important

[cobalt pewter]

"what of we get rid of everything" doesn't work if you don't factor the journey to get to that imaginary situation

[polar bison]

the issue if that you have a set amount of clay. You can get more dirt. Start with enough for a bomb, then you have more dirt than you started with. With clay, you can only get less and less.

[fossil finch]

And

[cobalt pewter]

well yeah theoretically you can drain dirt but it's physically impossible unless you're gunning to Celebration mk2 the whole world to emptiness

[fossil finch]

The point here is that it's not a real problem because it's an edge case that simply doesn't happen

[drowsy plank]

the only place this would be useful is like

[cobalt pewter]

the edge case is just too far ahead it doesn't matter in the end

[drowsy plank]

skyblock

[lavish condor]

Crispy is right in that silt and clay are not renewable, and that they theoretically can run out. However, the odds of this scenario happening is extremely small. A player would likely have to intentionally remove all the silt and clay from their world, destroying it through and through

[fossil finch]

And even if it happens you can just world hop or cheat some in

[lavish condor]

At that point, you would just create a new world or use another mod's features to make more

[cobalt pewter]

as I said, first-world problem

[lavish condor]

While world hopping is unideal for a lot of players, it is still a source of renewability

[golden sonnet]

That is true for pretty much any item. Dungeon bricks, abyss gravel, voidstone, etc

[fossil finch]

I'd make some joke on this but I can't think of a good actual problem to make it with

[polar bison]

The point isn't that it happens a lot, it most likely never has. The situation is that it is a fringe case that can happen (and the only two nonrenewable items in Calamity that aren't nonrenewable for a reason).

[crude geode]

i'm certain there's other nonrenewable items

[fossil finch]

Wrong!

Let's go though all fucking tiles

[polar bison]

Oh right abyss rock

[golden sonnet]

which are also both used in hadal stew : )

[drowsy plank]

hive when it

[fossil finch]

Jakko Warner's countries of the world playing

[lavish condor]

Most naturally generated tiles are difficult to renew

[polar bison]

Hive can be shimmered into

[drowsy plank]

arent abyss tiles obtainable via crates

[lavish condor]

If we're talking edge cases, the player could have removed the shimmer from their world

[fossil finch]

Almost all tiles in the game aren't renewable

[undone cedar]

Are there any realistic situations where this would be an issue

[fossil finch]

No

[golden sonnet]

nope, just Sulphur blocks

[undone cedar]

Literally just make a new world if its a problem

Lmao

[fossil finch]

Therefore it's not a problem discussion over everyone go home

[drowsy plank]

you can craft it

[fossil finch]

There's no point on "fixing" this if it's never going to happen

[drowsy plank]

luminite + bucket

[fossil finch]

There's another trillion tiles it could apply to

[polar bison]

Very few tiles are actually nonrenewable

[crude geode]

no

[lavish condor]

Nonrenewable items can be an issue, but I feel like that's a job for mods other than Calamity

[fossil finch]

The player could have theoretically removed all water from the world without having gained access to infinite water cube and therefore be unable to gain infinite water cube and therefore be unable to obtain shimmer

[drowsy plank]

very funny

[fossil finch]

Agains it's just never a problem it's not worth discussing

[drowsy plank]

well technically you can get tenebris and planty mush

[polar bison]

Abyss rocks (so voidstone and gravel [Tenebris and Planty Mush can be caught]), Clay and Silt, Brimstone Slag, Sulphurous Sandstone, and Eutrophic Sand

most being new biome sediments

[fossil finch]

It's not worth adding a recipe over specially not for silk or slush considering they could be abused due to extractination

[crude geode]

if you remove all the silt and clay from your world and don't save some for the crafts, that's not the game's fault lmap

[fossil finch]

Silk
Sulk
Whatever

[drowsy plank]

if a player removed every drop of liquid from their world they wouldn't be able to get water back (you can do fishing quests in honey, and obsidian lockboxes have water bombs)

[fossil finch]

Anyways can we legitimately stop this isn't going anywhere

[fossil finch]

There's also no lava or Access to lava fishing and no honey

[drowsy plank]

yes i prefaced it with no liquids

[fossil finch]

It's that simple

[drowsy plank]

you only have to remove ALL liquids to stop water renewability

[fossil finch]

Anyways not s problem can we like

[drowsy plank]

this is what this silt discussion is like

[polar bison]

Water can be duplicated lol

You just need a bucket and some blocks

[drowsy plank]

not if you have no liquids left in the world

[crude geode]

not if you don't own it

[drowsy plank]

if you delete ALL liquids you can't get new water

[polar bison]

I think you misunderstand the concept of renewability

[lavish condor]

their point is that silt and clay can't be duplicated

[fossil finch]

Technically only honey and water needs to be removed because lava fishing is locked off if you don't have
Shit we need to kill hell stone entirely prior to a net for that too god

[drowsy plank]

mhm

[fossil finch]

Crispy everyone knows what you want we just think it's ridiculous because nobody is running out of it legitimately so we're just doing situations were you run out of everything even the renewable things because that's also possible

[golden sonnet]

Vanilla also has a ton of nonrenewable tiles, and your world can straight up spawn without certain items making them unobtainable. You are not required or even able to get infinite of everything in a single world. Vanilla does not do this, calamity has no reason too. Make a new world, or spawn stuff in

[fossil finch]

No mob statues are renewable

[polar bison]

A lot of these got fixed with the addition of shimmer. There are a very small list of tiles now.

[drowsy plank]

just make rock golem drop silt

[fossil finch]

Heart crystals arent in vanilla

[polar bison]

Heart crystals appear in crates

[fossil finch]

You can have no fishing as said before

Therefore still possible to run out theoretically

Therefo

[golden sonnet]

Literally all dungeon bricks, which are actually used for things unlike silt

[lavish condor]

renewability != possible to run out of

[fossil finch]

anyways nobody cares can we actually stop this now

[crude geode]

@hollow shell I summon thee for latest sugg about renewability of an item extremely common in the world (silt and clay)

[fossil finch]

I know but it's funny

[drowsy plank]

im still mad about dungeon bricks and furniture
way bigger issue

[polar bison]

Again, the concept of renewability isn't that you can run out of something. It's the prospect of being unable to obtain more than a set amount you are given.

[fossil finch]

i know!!!!!! I do not care i think it's funny to make more hyperbole run out hypotheticals that are never happening

[polar bison]

I'm aware! I hope I don't come off as bickering!

[fossil finch]

Anyways as i said at the start this is a fix to a problem that doesn't exist

[drowsy plank]

ok running out of silt is funny and all but it's really annoying when dungeon furniture just doesn't spawn for you sometimes despite the bricks being obtainable seriously why is that shit not craftable it looks so good

[fossil finch]

Because the point is that it's not happening

[lavish condor]

If there are as few nonrenewable items as Crispy says, the sugg could be rephrased as make the non-renewable tiles renewable with the reason of consistency right?

[polar bison]

A lot of really good paintings can't even spawn in some worlds.

[fossil finch]

Running on theoreticals doesn't do anything helpful when it's not a reasonable theoreical

[polar bison]

That is a good point. I should revise it to include the missing tiles that can be far more significant

[drowsy plank]

there are a lot more non-renewables than you think (<-- made a skyblock map where i tried to make everything obtainable)

[polar bison]

I remember during my fargo's playthrough I couldn't get the necro enchantment because it needed a painting that didn't generate in my world

[fossil finch]

builders should just use cheat sheet honestly

[lavish condor]

Something that would be relevant to Calamity's scope would be Calamity's biome blocks

[drowsy plank]

id say the only one that really needs that treatment is brimstone slag then

[polar bison]

Voidstone is a bit more major of an item

Brimstone slag too

[fossil finch]

Doesn't rolling shithead already drop brimstone slag

Or does it only drop ore

[drowsy plank]

i thought it was just ore

[polar bison]

despair stone?

[drowsy plank]

ill double check

enemies drop voidstone already

according to wiki

[polar bison]

oh right, then it's abyss gravel, which locks away fathom seer armor

[lavish condor]

wiki doesn't say brimstone slag is dropped by anything

[drowsy plank]

wh

[polar bison]

which locks away omega blue

[drowsy plank]

despair stones only drop bloodstone

[polar bison]

yeah brimstone slag only generates

[fossil finch]

seeing it in the way of "locks this" is unreasonable honestly

[golden sonnet]

this is actually a good suggestion

[fossil finch]

Just see the "run out of it" part because you're not really gonna run out if it before making any of their recipes

[drowsy plank]

it died in voting the last time i made it

[lavish condor]

I feel like making Calamity's biome blocks renewable might be good

[polar bison]

Maybe even putting Brimstone slag in Brimstone crates. They did it with hellstone (an item in finite amounts ina world that could actually feasibly run out, locking away a big chunk of endgame content)

[golden sonnet]

Sadge

[drowsy plank]

indeed 😔

the only one that needs it is brim slag then

[fossil finch]

I think some irrelevant material recipe should have a single drop of web on it because afaik that's not dropped anywhere but really common and i think it should eventually be possible to not be able to fight.yharim because of it

[golden sonnet]

shimmer exists, so not needed

[polar bison]

what would you shimmer?

[drowsy plank]

that biome is small, has a lot of uses, and i could feasibly see someone actually run out of it

[polar bison]

ash is finite so you couldn't do that

[fossil finch]

Damn! It grows on spider biome walls but you can void them with the right conditoons

[golden sonnet]

wait wtf, why does shimmering ores down just skip hellstone

[drowsy plank]

hellstone isnt real

[fossil finch]

Not a normal ore

Not part of ore progression

[hollow shell]

Surprised the sugg does not bring up the fact that silt and slush can be extractinated for resources

[drowsy plank]

lmao yeah

[hollow shell]

also it took me a minute or two to realize that the reason why Hadal Stew was included in the list was because of the Bowl item

then again I am quite tired

[golden sonnet]

huh wack, I guess you are right, meteorite isn't in the chain either, making them the only 2 ores not in the shimmer chain

[lavish condor]

haunted dishes is also locked by clay

[crude geode]

terrarian eating the container of food once again

[lavish condor]

and that's used in an exo weapon

[polar bison]

Revised it

[fossil finch]

Me when this does not include the major problem (dungeon stuff

[hollow shell]

The sugg is focused on like ground tile stuff so I get it

[fossil finch]

Also oops! That's s shimmer in my Sugg you kinda gotta remove that

Future content and all

[drowsy plank]

shimmer is future content so that needs to go lol

[polar bison]

shimmer isn't in yet? Oh right mod's in 1.4.3

[hollow shell]

mm, hard to believe ain't it

[golden sonnet]

Also, sulphur sandstone/sand/hardened sandstone is already renewable from crates

[hollow shell]

True apparently?

[polar bison]

huh

I thought sand was just obtainable through scourge

[drowsy plank]

why is acidwood in there

[polar bison]

weird

[fossil finch]

Rover is there any way I can write my way around the donts and somehow sugges a Pikmin reference into the calamity mof

[golden sonnet]

"Abyss" crate moment, that's why

[polar bison]

I mean where are you gonna fish to catch an abyss crate

[drowsy plank]

the sulph sea is side dependant

[polar bison]

adding a sulphur crate would be a bit unecessary

[half imp]

is that a challenge

[fossil finch]

It is

[hollow shell]

Would be difficult and have to be roundabout, with Pikmin essentially being an "ulterior motive" to a seemingly unrelated suggestion

[fossil finch]

There are enough words in the English language to somehow accomplish this

Too bad I'm too lazy to actually try

[hollow shell]

Do you want like a
whistle for summoner class to force all minions in a radius to cancel their current aggro and return to the player?

[golden sonnet]

Make a texture pack for HoTE

[hollow shell]

I'm pretty sure that's how the whistle in Pikmin works

[fossil finch]

I can't sprite don't start off like that

Yes that's how it works and yes that would be something you could suggest

Technically you could suggest that as an entire new mechanic if you somehow went around the big scope thing

[hollow shell]

You'd prolly have to be even less specific than that.

"Add a tool for cancelling minion aggro and returning them to the player"

[fossil finch]

Not giving anyone ideas this is completely s thought experiment

[hollow shell]

It would be pretty nice for those minions that like to fuck off to the edges of the earth chasing enemies in walls

[polar bison]

Let's stretch this item a bit further. Change where your minions idle with the item.