suggestions-discussion

[serene tendon]

@quasi wigeon Switch to vanilla bossbars for pillars

[grim tusk]

Suggestion is asking for Calamity to add bars for pillars when invulnerable

[swift wharf]

is it really necessary

just fight the event until the shield breaks

[grim tusk]

Thing is vanilla has an indicator of how many enemies are left

Cal doesnt

This sugg aims to have one on the custom hp bar for consistency

[worldly basalt]

makes sense

[quasi wigeon]

yeah thats basically what i was aiming at

[hollow shell]

It does?

I remember YABHB did

Oh cool
https://terraria.wiki.gg/wiki/Boss_health_bar

[swift wharf]

I may be insane but I think cal had a healthbar for pillars in 1.3

[half imp]

I feel like it did too but I don't actually know

[cobalt pewter]

yeah vanilla boss HP bar is surprisingly efficient, especially with the added numerical display

I wouldn't mind if cal messes with vanilla boss HP bar a bit and give that feature to CV

my general sentiment with cal's boss HP bar has always been to get rid of it because it's old and why does it look like MGR while the rest is Terraria

at the very least if they want to revamp Cal boss HP bar make it Draedon themed or smth

[half imp]

if vanilla HP bar gave all the info Cal's did I'd use it

the exact hp and percentage and especially the segments remaining thing

is so useful

[cobalt pewter]

honestly atp cal could just augment vanilla HP bar and it'd be miles better than their own HP bar currently

the MGR have has never been looking well in Terraria setting

the fonts aren't even MGR for half of the HP bar content

and fucking hell it looks outdated

surprisingly that's probably the only thing that hasn't been resprited in the entire mod

[small timber]

I like the cal hp bar just because it is so clean

it dont clog up the screen, no unneeded fancy information or graphics and just tells you what you need to know

(and I think a suggestion related to "make the vanilla hp bar more fancy" or something like that did passed in the past)

oh right no it is this I think

[cobalt pewter]

honestly aside from the lack of certain infos vanilla HP bar strikes a really good balance imo as of 1.4.4

[small timber]

the "make vanilla hp bar more fancy" with like calamity boss icon/graphic at the bar is just yet another boss health bar mod

I dont like how it is positioned at the centre of the screen but it might be just me

might be habit to look top right for my own hp so I am used to looking at corners instinctively

[cobalt pewter]

honestly I just feel like the current cal hp bar is very outdated and inconsistent

[cobalt pewter]

ye that's probably preference and habits

[small timber]

I mean really which part of it is outdated

[cobalt pewter]

I can see how the center position alongside the bar graphics help gauge rough progress instantly by just a glance

[small timber]

lack of fancy graphics? you can always use the vanilla one for that

[cobalt pewter]

MGR reference

[small timber]

the MGR one gets the job done and tells you everything you need to know

[half imp]

i mean, a visual redesign would be fine but I do love how Cal's is so simple and concise for telling me so much

[small timber]

it being a reference doesn't automatically mean it is bad

[half imp]

there's not much they could change about it to make it better tbh

[small timber]

murasama being a reference doesn't automatically make it a bad weapon, it is just the people constantly asking for jet stream sam's slash attack make it bad

same with the ultrakill coin guns

[cobalt pewter]

but yeah MGR reference plays a big part into inconsistency

some parts of it is MGR while some parts have Terraria fonts

either go one way or another fully

[small timber]

I mean if you ask most people they probably dont even know that there is "Terraria fonts" and "MGR" fonts

[half imp]

using terraria font is one of the very few changes I could see that don't really make it worse

[small timber]

it is not something you pay attention to unless you explicitly look for differences

[cobalt pewter]

just because it's simple doesn't mean it can't have style and identity

considering Calamity has been constantly upgrading its visuals, this thing just icks me the wrong way as it's been left like that for years

#suggestions-posting message

what's the point of this graveyard change again?

[small timber]

make it so if you die a lot you dont get a shitton of graveyard randomly

[frosty trellis]

(For the record it doesn't exist anymore and it just a texture pack for the color scheme, gotta use BetterBossBars to get the % hp)

[small timber]

but yeah tldr for me:
if they want to do some fancy hp bar just use the vanilla one, it is vanilla (and I think default option now) so it is what most people use anyway

for me the clean and simple style of the cal hp bar is fine as it is, font change sure (it is not really noticeable) but I dont think it really need like "extra style" for it

it gets the job done and it is good enough at it

[cobalt pewter]

I feel like making graveyards harder to "settle" near each other would be a better approach than just adding graveyard tomb minimum

[small timber]

that you have to ask the devs how they approach it yes

[frosty trellis]

I don't like the cal bar because of the location and not being able to move said location and the yellow bar itself is really fucking annoying to see when fighting provi or Yharon since there is no outline for it and the text is just small when I have max resolution

[small timber]

for me just like, add a favourite item that when favourite prevent you from dropping gravestone because why not

[cobalt pewter]

god no

[small timber]

or :nuclear_option:

[cobalt pewter]

nuclear option indeed

[half imp]

adding an outline to cal HP bar would be great

and a config to move it

[frosty trellis]

Like legit, make a config to move it/change it's size and an outline and it would be miles better already

Yeah

[fierce mica]

It's more because the last change was not only meaningless, but also confusing and troublesome for players who only completed the vanilla process

[fierce mica]

And players who don't care about changelog or even don't visit discord, or at least in game the tombstone's tooltip has been edited and told about this change?

[small timber]

I mean as long as they do not change it to like "graveyard now require gravestones + some ghost orb or something" it do not really need a tooltip, all it does it just "you need more gravestone for a graveyard" so if you cant get it just try to stack more gravestones

just ya the way it is handled is not really efficient as 20 gravestones just mean you have to die min 20 times

[half imp]

yeah I agree that 20 is a bit much

[fierce mica]

Indeed ; my situation is that quite a lot of people will not continue to try to increase the number but regard it as a bug, and then start harassing people who "may know", such as video bloggers or similar things

This may be a rare experience, I'm really tired of being asked these questions(

[hollow shell]

I do remember seeing a lot of questions about this before

At the very least we should have like
a tooltip on all the tombstones

stating what the requirement is

Because otherwise the only way for you to know what the new cap is is to go digging around on the wiki

the massive oatmeal hodgepodge smorgasbord of a Vanilla Changes page

[grim tusk]

Yea a tooltip will be nice

Shouldnt be that bad to IL edit

[hollow shell]

Yeah it'd be very easy, we do it for tons of other items already

[cobalt pewter]

worm boss balance

[grim tusk]

@ashen warren balance suggestions go in #1042197406776827914 also what are you even using to obliterate the worm

[ashen warren]

kk, Many things can work I was using stealth strike with the blazing stars but the ice clasper summon performs similarly

[glass arch]

oh yeah piercing weapons shit on worms

[grim tusk]

Ice clasper is known to be funky, similar to how the whole summoner class with minion slot bloat is

[blazing kettle]

wow suprise

[frosty trellis]

Ice Claspers does well
Any t.melee weapon fucking annihilates
Frigidflash Bolt and Meteor Staff decimates
Any ranger weapon with halfway decent piercing is sub 1 minute

[grim tusk]

About blazing star I assume thats when he’s coiled

[ashen warren]

especially as its not event that bad of an issue

[frosty trellis]

Aquatic Scourge is very frail though

[ashen warren]

no, when hes full length coming towards you

[ashen warren]

^

[grim tusk]

Hmm

[frosty trellis]

Anything that has any piercing whatsoever can 1.3 Daedalus Stormbow on Dest melt AS

[grim tusk]

Perhaps he needs more pierce resistance

[ashen warren]

prolly

[frosty trellis]

Which is also reflected in it's killtime of 2 minutes in testing despite all the mechs being 3 and the fact he is a post 1 mech boss

[frosty trellis]

And immunity to all debuffs

Literally

All debuffs

Debuffs melt him

[grim tusk]

More debuff resistance I guess

[ashen warren]

OH true that could help aswel

[frosty trellis]

I say straight up immunity as he has so many segments for debuffs to melt him with

[grim tusk]

I did have to make [data expunged] ’s electrified last less so it doesnt nuke AS

[frosty trellis]

Hell, frigidflash bolt is on fire and frostburn and it does a surprisngly decent chunk of damage

[grim tusk]

AS’ killtime is 2 minutes

With full glass cannon he should melt fast indeed

[frosty trellis]

AS needs pierce res, debuff immunity and more hp as he is intended to be post 1 mech despite having the shortest killtime of any boss until storm weaver

[ashen warren]

i did a nohit of two and it only took me 55 seconds for both

[grim tusk]

Glass cannon moment

[frosty trellis]

Don't even need glass cannon

[glass arch]

worm boss moment tbh ngl iirc

[grim tusk]

Yea DoT is dumb atm

Thats fixed next patch

[frosty trellis]

When I did my Master-Death AS nohit I fully min-maxed movement speed and only then with Axe of Purity did I manage to get like a second over mnl

[grim tusk]

This was after DoT vulnerability was nerfed btw

[frosty trellis]

And mind you I was in pre mech gear

Still in palladium armor, not cobalt

Or mythril/orichalcum

AS's stats just needs a complete overhaul to make him not just die, especially since dest is memed upon for dying to piercing weapons and even he stands up better to pre mech weapons than AS does

At least with my master-death dest nohit I had like 3-4 offensive accessories in pre mech gear

[ashen warren]

also maybe make spawned AS (from summon) naturally attack the player because otherwise you get a prefire (basically) before the boss even fights you

[frosty trellis]

AS I had one

[ashen warren]

Ok so i just tested it again with 0 accessories and only 1 stealthstrike with 3 stack i did 11% of its hp (hitting almost all of the segments), i was using titan heart armor

[frosty trellis]

With no offensive shit wtf

With filthy glove and a rogue emblem that would do waytoomuch

[glass arch]

worm boss moment

god i hate worm bosses

[cobalt pewter]

can't wait for worm bosses to eventually be able to only be damaged on the head

that'll solve balance problems

[small timber]

Worm boss should have damage window of when you can deal damage to the body

[atomic shell]

Aquatic Scourge can now only be damaged in a single middle segment. - Done ✅

[ashen warren]

yep

[ashen warren]

oh god no ;-;

[cobalt pewter]

all worm bosses are replaced with thanatos

[atomic shell]

break 3 shadow orbs summon thanatos

[drowsy plank]

all you really need is stuff like polarities convective wanderer being a single segment

the problem isnt worm bosses, it's just how terraria handles them (poorly)

another thing i hope they fix in terraria 2 with a better engine

[small timber]

The only problem I see is then piercing become the exact same as single target (therefore no reason to use the other) but yeah it is a possible solution

[crude geode]

Could you hit multiple times with a single piercing projectile though

[crude geode]

I feel like you can replace worm bosses with so many things and have it be valid

[drowsy plank]

this is true but not the point

[drowsy plank]

considering you can do it with bosses like levi and aureus, yeah, probably? at the very least you'd have more control over how it behaved if you didnt have to worry so much about segments

[gray nebula]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/615658112828964911/1057052117170405446/2.gif

The "oh one segment worm" seemed so cool when i first looked into it

but its actually

really not the best

like it entirely breaks with minions because the hitbox is super fucked up

i tried it to check it out and ; mm gm mgmg

[crude geode]

Figures there’s a reason it doesn’t happen

[gloomy stone]

why is ranged nerfed this bad i fought wall of flesh for the half of the entire large world map in death mode but i couldn't kill him EVEN WITH A STAR CANNON lol

[small timber]

star cannon is nerfed not ranged

and this goes to #1042197406776827914

and ironically vanilla did the star cannon nerf iirc not calamity (I might be wrong on this one since wiki didn't stat that)

ok it is indeed a calamity nerf, I misremembered

[gloomy stone]

not just star cannon, archerfish, gunk shot, lunarian bow and other calamity weapons nerfed as well

[sudden quartz]

i am curious why his damage is so low

[swift wharf]

does the archerfish speed bug still exist?

[sudden quartz]

are you not hitting the eye/mouth or smth

[small timber]

no those are not nerfed, they are just not good to begin with

[swift wharf]

tbf lunarian bow is mid

[small timber]

and gunk shot (should be) pretty good with proper ammo

[swift wharf]

and so is gunk shot

or maybe i am wrong

byeah lunarian bow is

[gloomy stone]

archerfish has 9 base damage lol

[swift wharf]

base damage != dps

[sudden quartz]

this is true

[swift wharf]

anyways

like if you get any speed modifiers it breaks

[sudden quartz]

alot of cal weapons hit bosses multiple times even with low base damage

[gloomy stone]

i did hit wall of flesh all the time

[swift wharf]

smth smth unreal/rapid/deadly makes so the water projectile only hits once

[sudden quartz]

are you going too fast

like

[small timber]

this is like months ago

[sudden quartz]

is the wof becoming super fast

[small timber]

but this probably just means that it benefit more from armor pen

[swift wharf]

i guess it is fixed then

[small timber]

but yeah tldr except for star cannon (which is deliberate), I dont think they really intentionally "nerfed" those weapon, at most rebalanced

[small timber]

(and some weapon like lunarian bow are just weak from much earlier before)

[swift wharf]

lunarian bow isnt real lunarian bow isnt real lunarianbowisntreallunarianbowisnt

[sudden quartz]

i remember using drizzle fish for my ranged wof fight

[gloomy stone]

half of the large world wasn't enough for me to kill wof with star cannon but i killed him 2 times easier with melee

[sudden quartz]

you sure you arent

[swift wharf]

i will not sugarcoat it

[sudden quartz]

skill issue

[small timber]

star cannon is nerfed to be like a post-BOC weapon

[small timber]

^ as in literally

[swift wharf]

drizzlefish + hellfire boots + slime gun + idk

[small timber]

and ya this really is #1042197406776827914 kind of deal

[serene tendon]

And therefore nobody will ever use it

because you can just use another post-BoC weapon with less grindy ammo and it'll do just as well

which is dumb

@fierce mica They changed it because you die to endgame bosses a crap ton of times before actually beating them, so the low gravestone requirement would be really annoying.

[hollow shell]

what a suggestion

[blazing kettle]

the suggestion of all time

[ashen warren]

hot take: what's wrong with star cannon?

[blazing kettle]

megasharc jumpscare

[glass arch]

you do know thats literally for everything next update

[ashen warren]

what?

[glass arch]

next major update is on 1.4.4

which if you havent noticed already has this neat little button that gives every weapon in the game autouse

[ashen warren]

no i mean

i want guns that shoot faster

[glass arch]

so just get a faster firing gun

[blazing kettle]

and why did you ask for a fast gun when calamity adds 50 upgrades to this

[ashen warren]

there's so many buffs that make melee fire faster, why not give other classes some love?

[hollow shell]

Because ranger doesn't need it

[blazing kettle]

because they dont need it

[glass arch]

yeah have you seen stuff like planar ripper

[ashen warren]

and melee does?

[blazing kettle]

have you actually beaten calamity before

as ranger

[ashen warren]

... i just did

like a day or so ago

[frosty trellis]

Ranger does not an accessory to make it's guns fire faster

[ashen warren]

maybe it should

[glass arch]

in vanilla it doesnt matter because melee speed only applies to true melee, but tmod did a funky and made it affect projectile firing speed

[blazing kettle]

onyxia, minigun, soma prime, angellic shotgun, theh ordes of boes

[frosty trellis]

It already has a good amount of fast firing megashark clones at pretty much every stage

[ashen warren]

there's quite a few guns that fire at average or less speed

[hollow shell]

For melee it's pretty uncommon to have a weapon that swings super fast
There are some like Fetid but overall they just swing at a moderate speed, leaving room for the speed to be boosted by equipment

For ranger, over half the guns in the game are machine guns

[ashen warren]

even at endgame

[frosty trellis]

(Angelic Shotgun isn't that fast)

[glass arch]

planar ripper

[blazing kettle]

its faster than an average shotgun

[glass arch]

that shit is stupid

[ashen warren]

chicken cannon in particular

star cannon early on

[glass arch]

yeah because if that thing can shoot faster it can melt anything

[frosty trellis]

SDFMG
Seadragon
Megalodon
D.Breath

[hollow shell]

Of course Chicken Cannon fires slowly, because it's a huge beefy rocket launcher

[frosty trellis]

Yeah

[glass arch]

and star cannon needed the nerf

[ashen warren]

near endgame gun though

[hollow shell]

It's not a gun

It's a rocket launcher

[blazing kettle]

cannons are meant ti be slow?????

[ashen warren]

sorry i want to have fun blowing things up

[frosty trellis]

It's a fucking rocket launcher yeah

[blazing kettle]

burst damage weapons are a tbibg

[glass arch]

ok so pull out a celebration mk2 then

[frosty trellis]

Rocket launchers don't need to be fast

[blazing kettle]

celebration mkII

[frosty trellis]

That sounds like a fucking nightmare to balance

Since the high damage of mini nuke is

[ashen warren]

only 103 base damage on celebration mk II

[glass arch]

ive seen what it looks like when you turn the usetime of things to 1 (at least on 1.3) and lets just say its fucking stupid

[frosty trellis]

Base damage doesn't mean a whole lot

[drowsy plank]

me adding a useSpeed modifier to an entire class because it definitely didnt immediately break the game the last time that happened

[glass arch]

base damage isnt everything you wet sack of meatballs

[frosty trellis]

Cele Mk.II has a fast fire rate

[blazing kettle]

its the only fast rocket launcher

in post ml

[frosty trellis]

(It's the only real fast one period bc rocket launchers aren't meant to be fast. That doesn't really make any sense)

[blazing kettle]

dont get me started on rifles

[ashen warren]

i just don't see why one class has to have all the speed buffs for themselves

[frosty trellis]

Also, add a fire rate increasing item and suddenly sniper rifles slow but hits like a fucking train thing goes out of wack and then it becomes a complete and utter balancing nightmare

[blazing kettle]

melee is the only class that needs it

[ashen warren]

if anything melee needs a fucking defense buff lol

[blazing kettle]

summoner hits every category pretty well but is limited by range

[glass arch]

because before 1.4 tmod melee projectile fire rate wasnt increased with melee speed and true melee usually does fucking nothing

[blazing kettle]

mage is mostly about burst damage

[glass arch]

mpg tell him

[ashen warren]

run up to thanatos with a sword and see what happens

[blazing kettle]

the sentance of all time

[glass arch]

tell this user why they lack critical information

[blazing kettle]

another sentance of all time

[frosty trellis]

Because it makes sense...?
Melee can have increased swing speed bc it makes sense that you can swing a sword faster easier (Although even so it's a balancing fucking nightmare)

I don't see how a firing speed increasing item would benefit rangers and wouldn't just break everything immediately

Already fast firing machine guns become worthless and sniper rifles and slower rocket launchers break in 17

[blazing kettle]

melee can tacetank thanatos

[frosty trellis]

(Thanatos Dies bc The Enforcer melts Thana)

[ashen warren]

so it's ok for a melee weapon to swing fast but for ranged it's a "balancing nightmare"

[glass arch]

dont get mpg started on defense

[frosty trellis]

Oh with melee it's already a balancing nightmare

[blazing kettle]

melee has mostly slow swords

[frosty trellis]

But with Ranger it would be far worse

[ashen warren]

sure

i don't get that but ok

[frosty trellis]

Because of sniper rifles and rocket launchers

[glass arch]

mpg literally said its a balancing nightmare you illiterate lump of cheese

[ashen warren]

insulting won't make your case bro

[blazing kettle]

its not an insult its just you cannot read

[frosty trellis]

Not listening to our points isn't making yours

[ashen warren]

your points make no sense

it seems hypocritical that one class can have it and it's fine

but the other can't

[errant wren]

their points make perfect sense

[blazing kettle]

okay so imagine a sniper rifle

with the speed of fetid baghnakhs

[ashen warren]

ok and what do you suppose would happen if we gave an endgame sword like murasama the same speed?

[blazing kettle]

its limited by range

[ashen warren]

"range" ok

[glass arch]

we have literally said its a balancing nightmare for melee thats why i called you an illiterate lump of cheese in the first place

[ashen warren]

last time i tried the weap it has a pretty decent range

[blazing kettle]

try hitting scal

i dare you

[glass arch]

try hitting exo twins

[ashen warren]

better than most swords

k i can give it a go

[blazing kettle]

AotC:

also whats the normal varient of the skullcrusher rifle i forget

[frosty trellis]

Yes, melee speed is a balancing nightmare. But some of it has already been balanced around and will be fixed

Ranger doesn't need something to add to it's balance as it already has balance hell in bullet/arrow types. Making quite literally everything fire faster breaks the entire class on the spot and would require a rebalance of every single fucking weapon

Not every melee weapon even scales with Melee speed, so some things are already still fine and is less of a balance hell than adding a completely new mechanic to ranger for no good reason

[blazing kettle]

the huge purple one

[glass arch]

anti material rifle

[blazing kettle]

yes thank you

imagine that with chain guns fire rate

[ashen warren]

can you even use AMR in endgame?

[glass arch]

mura has the highest true melee range yes but that says absolutely fucking nothing when you look at projectile melee weapons

[ashen warren]

legit question

[frosty trellis]

A: It can't hit SCal in stationary, her brothers or Exo Twins
B: Murasama doesn't scale with melee speed

[frosty trellis]

Marked for death so yeah

[glass arch]

it has a direct upgrade so i dont see why you would but its possible

[ashen warren]

ok but what if it did?

oh ok

i was thinking about getting it but i thought it was too late now

[frosty trellis]

It's usable for SCal and Exos due to marked for death

Sucks for Thana byeah

And Tyranny's End is better anyways

[ashen warren]

most guns do tbh

[frosty trellis]

Tyranny's is beyond cracked

[ashen warren]

only gun that can reasonably damage thanatos is chicken cannon i think

[glass arch]

i mean most slow firing single target weapons suck against thana

[blazing kettle]

i cannot remember the names of cals sniper rifles for the life of me

[glass arch]

no minigun does decent damage iirc

[blazing kettle]

AMR is just the most reconizable to me because its ourple

[glass arch]

the only one i forget is amr, for some reason i can remember shroomer but not amr

[frosty trellis]

Minigun and The Anomoly's Nanogun come to mind

Nanogun is stronger than Chicken Cannon for Thana

[ashen warren]

i tried soma prime and couldn't do jack squat

[frosty trellis]

Probably lack of piercing on Soma prime + Soma not being the best

[ashen warren]

alswo this would probably be the best i can do with mura

[blazing kettle]

and if you dont want to use minigun, onyxia is still there

[ashen warren]

i don't have melee gear

[frosty trellis]

Oh

You're on Master

[ashen warren]

death

[blazing kettle]

lmao

[frosty trellis]

That's your problem

Your problem isn't the weapons your problem is master

[ashen warren]

i think a lack of melee gear is probably a bigger issue lmao

[frosty trellis]

Okay yeah argument immediately thrown out the window as cal does not balance Master

[ashen warren]

ah ok

[frosty trellis]

Master is ignored completely

[ashen warren]

that's fair i suppose

[frosty trellis]

The mod is balanced around Expert-Revengence

[blazing kettle]

master death is the equivelant to exper malice

[frosty trellis]

(Malice is worse)

[ashen warren]

that's fair cause it's the expected experience

[glass arch]

didnt fab say at some point he wanted to replace the master button on the select screen with rev

[ashen warren]

does master affect death?

[glass arch]

yes

[blazing kettle]

yes

[ashen warren]

interesting

[glass arch]

it affects everything

[blazing kettle]

why wouldnt it

[ashen warren]

idk

i just thought it was overriden by higher difficulties like expert

[blazing kettle]

dummy

[ashen warren]

so yeah i'm on master death i guess

[frosty trellis]

Master is a 1.5x multiplier to all enemy stats

And that's it

[ashen warren]

dang

[swift wharf]

the suggestion ever

[frosty trellis]

No AI changes or anything

[ashen warren]

today i learned

[frosty trellis]

Master is just flat out ignored and for good reason

It's stat bloat and just bad

It's why it's ignored

[ashen warren]

so basically you'd have to be a sadistic bastard to even play this

[frosty trellis]

And cal just sticks to expert balance

[versed fox]

totally not me doing a master death run with my friend

[swift wharf]

expertt rev byea

[ashen warren]

don't

[swift wharf]

anyways balance talk..................

[ashen warren]

yeah sorry

[frosty trellis]

(No I've beaten the game several times on Master-Death and nohitting on Master-Death. It's just making my life unnecessarily hard)

[ashen warren]

i didn't mean to go off topic lol

i just didn't want to be rude and say anything

[versed fox]

Too late, already on moon lord lol

[swift wharf]

just read the pins

[blazing kettle]

aight so yeah attack rae up in other classes is bad and stinly

[swift wharf]

[glass arch]

even with melee its pretty ech

[ashen warren]

and can probs cause lag with certain weapons

[grim tusk]

@ashen warren vague and barely any reasoning and asking for a specific function.

Reasonings have to be more that “i want it” or the classic “it would be cool”

[ashen warren]

fair i guess

[crude geode]

“some guns shoot slow” is kind of the point of some guns

So not every gun is just a minishark with varied effect

[grim tusk]

Also imagine having to deal with yet another Glove of recklessness

[drowsy plank]

[crude geode]

Lmao

[frosty trellis]

Yeah how about NO

[grim tusk]

It has a -12% dmg for a reason

[frosty trellis]

Yeah

And it's STILL cracked with some weapons

[glass arch]

@polar eagle formatting

and reasoning

[polar eagle]

oh ok

fixed

[hollow shell]

Yeah indeed it should use Any Sand and not Sand Block

Sort of an oversight

(Maybe not the best idea to also ask that it be made non-consumable in the same suggestion, cuz that's an entirely separate thing)

[crude geode]

^

[glass arch]

isnt it already non consumable

just not stated in the tooltip

[hollow shell]

Let me check

shoulda did that earlier

[glass arch]

@unborn arch no

summoner already has 2 weapons from exos

they dont need a third in exchange for melee losing one

[hollow shell]

... Okay I actually can't tell, because I don't know what the default state of an item is
Non-consumable items have Item.consumable = false;, consumable items have Item.consumable = true;
Arid Artifact doesn't have either

In-game check required

[glass arch]

id assume default state would be non consumable

[hollow shell]

I would also assume that but confirmation would be nice

[glass arch]

begoade checked a couple days ago and its no

[hollow shell]

@unborn arch It is meant to be a successor to weapons like Solar Eruption, Mourningstar, and Pulse Dragon

Calamity will add whips in bulk eventually, it will likely have its own dedicated update some time down the line

[glass arch]

plus if one class were to have more than all the other classes that have a drop it would be unfair to the other classes

[glacial iris]

yup, it's nonconsumable but doesn't say it in the tooltip

[unborn arch]

Gotcha, I've just been using the Kalaidascope since I got it

[glass arch]

imagine if you gave ds 5 melee drops and 1 drop for each other class

[hollow shell]

[glacial iris]

he was trolling

[hollow shell]

Damn it >:(

[glacial iris]

I tested it ingame for mori

[hollow shell]

Alright yeah I see now

I'll make that very clear on the wiki so there's no further confusion

I just noticed that Torrential Tear also lacks that in its tooltip
I suppose it's more easy to intuit there considering it's an exclusive chest loot alongside weapons and accessories, unlike Arid Artifact which is a drop or craftable
It's much easier to assume that the former is nonconsumable and the latter is consumable

(oh Arid isn't a drop anymore. I wonder when that happened)

[glass arch]

i think about 1.5

[blazing kettle]

ah yes, summober weapon

[crude geode]

Yeah that’s ridiculous and would never ever happen

[hollow shell]

hey can we talk about how messed up it is that the summon damage penalty still has no in-game indication nor explanation to this very day, despite being added 5 years ago?

[glass arch]

it is

[crude geode]

Absolutely yes

[glass arch]

fuck it imma just post a sugg to give that an indication

[hollow shell]

Yes go ahead

[glass arch]

there

[hollow shell]

Thank you this looks good

Among the other possibilities are
a debuff that appears when the penalty conditions are met, which explains the mechanic in its hover-over debuff tooltip (won't be much of a problem with the raised cap and the fact that you're not supposed to be doing it anyway)
or
a new unique UI element which appears when the penalty conditions are met, to explain the mechanic when hovered over (like how the Stealth meter now contains the stealth strike explanation)

[frozen hornet]

Poor mage with zero

[hollow idol]

well, one of the loading messages says so now

[frosty trellis]

That's

Not that useful tbh

[crude geode]

I feel like YuH knows that

[frosty trellis]

Fair

[cobalt pewter]

there's a more intricate issue with the modded loading messages

in that there's no real telling which mod it came from

even just a small icon beside the message would help a ton

[hollow ridge]

Might need more of a description

It's quite small

[small timber]

the suggestion do not make sense if it is for balance concern
if it is so "launchers can benefit from ammo property" then sure why not, but if it is for "buffing scorpio" then no

you can just use mini nuke with scorpio no? so it is always more damage than snowman cannon with mini nuke

[ashen warren]

Not for "buffing scorpio".I just think be affected by ammo features instead of only their damage.

[small timber]

then I think the scorpio and snowman cannon comparison is a bit unnecessary yeah

since only comparing base damage is a bit inaccurate of the weapon's performance

the reason can be just like "bow and guns use ammo property (and vanilla launchers too) so why not calamity launchers"

and how this effectively make ammo choice for launchers pointless as you just use the one with the highest damage always with calamity launcher

[ashen warren]

Yes, that's what I want to say.The comparison between snowman cannon and scorpio is unnecessary.My expression is not very good.

[small timber]

dont worry it is fine

mind me to to just make the suggestion for you?

[ashen warren]

I don't mind

[grave zinc]

@small timber - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make Decapodita Sprout (Crabulon's Summon Item) Spawns Naturally In Glowing Mushroom Biome (similar to Gelatin Crystal for Queen Slime)]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@half imp - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Remove the Summon Damage Penalty during the Old One's Army]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[frosty trellis]

LESGO

[small timber]

ok I just realise only cluster is not affected isnt it?

because mininuke seems to be working

[blazing kettle]

hype suggestions

hoping the crab summom gets a unique sprite though

[small timber]

ok the suggestion is a bit weird, this is why:

Calamity launchers are affected by ammo except for Clusters (mini nuke works)

otherwise, they are just unaffected by ammo at all because they have unique property (like Magnomaly Cannon), and if you change them to be affected by ammo then they will just be "boring rocket launcher"

so the suggestion only apply to Cluster Rocket

and yes this behaviour is consistent with Celebration MK2 which is a vanilla item

[ashen warren]

the mininuke dont change the calamity launchers blast radius I test.

[small timber]

those that do not changed all use unique property, as in they dont even destroy tiles

so similar to celebration Mk2 (other than destroy tile or not)

[ashen warren]

maybe could add the ammo property but keep their unique property?

[small timber]

maybe but I think it will be hard

all of those that use ammo property are "fire rocket do nothing else" launchers (other than whether they destroy tiles or not)

and of course like cluster rocket (if it work) can make some launchers really broken

[ashen warren]

yes,that hard.the vanilla create many kind of projectile for the launchers when they use different ammo

[grave zinc]

@half imp - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Remove the Summon Damage Penalty during the Old One's Army]

It has officially been implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[inner anvil]

Let's see if it actually works as intended.

As in, let's hope we did it right and you can't just spawn one goblin from OOA and fight a boss without the penalty.

[cobalt pewter]

lo

[distant gyro]

to be fair, who is going to do that

other than evil minmaxers looking to evilly minmax

[frail mantle]

how would you even do that without cheat sheet

All OOA enemies despawn when the event ends

[distant gyro]

as theoretically made

summon the event, set up a hoik trap, peace out, summon a boss

[flint vine]

Add yharim plz

[thin hill]

You have to wait for that, boy.

[flint vine]

Yharim looks cool

[thin hill]

He will get added eventually

[frail mantle]

yharim will be added once they're mostly done with the mod

this will not happen anytime soon

[crisp lagoon]

Probably never then lol, there is always something new to add or something to change

[swift wharf]

roadmaps:

[serene tendon]

No? Just add the base damage, and make the AOE that of the rocket used. They would also determine whether the launcher can break blocks

[serene tendon]

Yeah. I say let the cheesers cheese if they wish

[royal tapir]

Man, if someone wants to actually go through the effort of doing this just for a hybrid build, be my guest

[drowsy plank]

it'd be easier just to use a cross class armor set xd

[half imp]

I mean you can already spawn 500 explosive traps by storing etherian mana

OOA cheese is nothing new but nobody cares to do it

[half imp]

Actuate the floor so wave one just falls into a pit immediately

and have it empty all the way to the crystal so there's no tiles for them to phase up through on their way there

only way to do it besides hoiking the crystal itself as all etherian enemies just phase through hoiks

[small timber]

the skeletons summoned by dark mage will not despawn if you have a really shitty arena and it fall off platform

but yeah otherwise you have to have a very stupid and extensive setup just so you can use a summoner weapon with your main weapon

[half imp]

the flag for OOA is set by the crystal being active iirc

I'd imagine they just added an "or OOA active" to the summon penalty exceptions

not to mention melee can already use summon weapons with a handful of weapons

[distant gyro]

yeah just

DD2Event.Ongoing

nothing extra

[unreal star]

oh i didn't even see the already made tombstone suggestion

oh well

[drowsy plank]

your's is way better lmao

[unreal star]

thanks

[grim tusk]

There were already reasons to spawn one goblin

Before this

Lol

[inner anvil]

Comedy.

[serene tendon]

Like that one DG instakill method with lightning traps

[grim tusk]

exactly that

[half imp]

although that isn't very good in calamity

[grim tusk]

but it takes ages to setup so lol

[half imp]

dg doesn't have insane hp

Not even 10k

[grim tusk]

Deus gets fucked by that method

so does ML to an extent

[serene tendon]

I love that stupid and funny exploits like that exist for people who want them.

[half imp]

deus also just dies to explosive traps

with a normal setup

[hollow shell]

nah now we gotta patch it out
No cheese methods are allowed to exist no matter how impractical they are

[serene tendon]

Removing creative cheeses like that will just make people who are fed up with the boss in question resort to Cheat Sheet

At least this is creative and funny

[hollow shell]

Even if they don't resort to cheat sheet, the end result is them feeling defeated and angry
rather than amused and satisfied if they find something wacky to get through it

[serene tendon]

True

@grim tusk On the subject of cheeses, will Calamity be un-nerfing the Explosive Bunnies? Sorry if you're bothered by the ping

[grim tusk]

unlike lighting aura, explosive bunnies are considerably easier to set up

i dont see unnerfing em any time soon

[serene tendon]

Not really? If by easier we just mean more time-consuming, you still have to spend a while collecting bunnies. It's less grindy, but not quick by any means

[grim tusk]

OoA is a pain in the ass, let it have the op method

also cant you just use statues for the bunnies?

[glass arch]

or just a zerg potion

[serene tendon]

Why can't we have both? People who would be using either clearly don't want to fight the boss normally, or can't due to a player-created challenge. Why should they be stopped?

[grim tusk]

as I said OoA is a pain in the ass, meanwhile bunnies is easier and safer

if you want to cheese via OoA, the grind is longer, tedious and harder

[peak sandal]

Hey what mods outside of fargos work with calamity?

[golden tulip]

calamity devs when they find out players are using their own more fun ways to kill their bosses

[serene tendon]

True

[glass arch]

ture

[glass arch]

wrong channel

[hollow shell]

probably ask in #other-mod-talk

[peak sandal]

OK what Chanel

[hollow shell]

also damn

[serene tendon]

Fargos doesn't work well from what I've heard, The Stars Above seems to work alright, although I didn't use the weapons so I don't know how they're balanced

[hollow shell]

It was vanilla

[serene tendon]

yeah

[hollow shell]

Chances of that being reverted are even lesser

[peak sandal]

1.3.5 64bit is what I'm using

[hollow shell]

It'd be one thing if it was Calamity going back to what vanilla did, but it's another thing to add a cheese to the game

or re-add, rather

[serene tendon]

Why should we force people to go through pain for cheese? What purpose does that serve? And what if the player, for some reason, cannot do the OOA cheese, due to a self-imposed challenge or something?

[grim tusk]

if you want the get out of jail free card for bosses, you gotta earn it

[grim tusk]

bunnies still is easy as shit compared to OoA

this discussion should end and we should focus on other issues

[hollow shell]

Not a great argument, self-imposed challenges
Long established via the Subclass Don't that the devs don't want to cater to those

[golden tulip]

killing weird cheeses like lances and bunnies partially defeat the sandbox aspect

[hollow shell]

indeed it does

[half imp]

That was removed in like, 1.3 or 1.4

can't catch statue xritters

[grim tusk]

oh

[half imp]

ofc either way OOA cheese is terrible to set up

[grim tusk]

well argument still stands as you can zerg the bunnies

[half imp]

yea

[serene tendon]

Fair, that was not the main argument however, just a side point

[small timber]

your assumption is that to beat the game the player will need to cheese
no they just dont have to

[serene tendon]

Is there even a bunny statue? I didn't think there was

[half imp]

There is

[small timber]

on a non-challenge run on a non-ftw difficulty (even ftw) you can just beat the game, normally, without needing any cheese

[hollow shell]

who cares
You still have to go out of your way to do it, and then do it again from scratch for any other boss
It's not something you can just stumble upon to "ruin" your experience

[serene tendon]

No, I'm saying that if the player is going to cheese something, he or she might as well have multiple options

[half imp]

also yeah I hope cal un-nerfs bunnies in 1.4.4 with cheese being patched but I get if not

[small timber]

why is the mod balance around assuming the player want to cheese again?

[half imp]

bc bunnies cheese sucked but I like bunnies being good for non cheese

[hollow shell]

defense damage

(defense damage)

[small timber]

if you want to cheese you at least have to be creative about it

[half imp]

It's balanced around not making cheese so easy you can do it free

[small timber]

if it is uncreative and super easy then that is not cheese, that is called balance flaw

[half imp]

So true

[golden tulip]

then why were lances cucked

[small timber]

no one knows

I still dont understand why they nerfed lance

[serene tendon]

Again, it's not. However we shouldn't patch out alternatives for players who want to cheese something, because at the end of the day he or she can and will just resort to Cheat Sheet if given no other options

[hollow shell]

because cal devs/testers see ALL possible cheeses as "balance flaws"

[small timber]

then make them use cheat sheet, who cares

[small timber]

meanwhile recall and teleporters got unhooked
truly a moment

[hollow shell]

Cheat Sheet is the ultimate uncreative and super easy solution

[grim tusk]

also very simple to create

[grim tusk]

because if you want I could take Rover's "Cal dev" mindset and go kill OoA cheese too

[golden tulip]

is it

[half imp]

pretty simple

water inner tube and teleporters

[hollow shell]

Give them a few months, they'll revert whatever the current state is. They did it before

[serene tendon]

The players care, they'd much rather use an ingame thing than resort to Cheat Sheet, especially if that cheese is quirky and funny in its own right, like blowing up stuff with bunnies with dynamite strapped to them is

[grim tusk]

mostly multiplayer reasons

[half imp]

I'm glad they did though tbh

[small timber]

that sounds acceptable yeah

[half imp]

teleporters let you be creative with boss cheese often

unless the boss is like plantera

[small timber]

player do not suddenly dont get to play the game because they cant 1 shot brain of cthulhu or wof with bunnies

[serene tendon]

They inherently nerfed that one by making Planterra shoot seeds in second phase

[small timber]

the mod is not removing the player's ability to press wasd if they cant use explosive bunny

[half imp]

explosive bunnies can still be used too

I used them to kill Providence without any weapons or armor or equipment

most boring 30 minutes of my life fr

[golden tulip]

what the hell

wheres the fun in that

[half imp]

being able to say I did it is the only fun in it

it was not worth it

this week I'll probably do DoG

[serene tendon]

Obviously, but you're making a straw man out of my argument. I'm thinking more about people who have sunk hundreds of attempts into Provi, PBG, SCal or DoG and just want it to end. I wouldn't resort to cheese, but I can see why people would

[small timber]

you know there is a bunch of clutch mod that just exist right?

wing slot, boots slot or whatever

[grim tusk]

PBG is though again? its been ages

[serene tendon]

Brain of Cthulhu was possibly the worst example, it can't be 1-shot due to the creepers

[small timber]

or lower difficulty, or minmax their gear, or search youtube for cheese that is not explosive bunny

[grim tusk]

the bosses that you are not supposed to attempt to cheese (however they still can be lol)

[serene tendon]

Like I've said before, people would rather use an ingame method, especially if that method is silly and fun, like blowing a sun god to bits with bunnies that have explosives tied to them is

[grim tusk]

i've seen more than enough for the opposite

esp when peaking at #help-advice-read-pins and #calamity-mod-talk and other servers like Terramain

its honestly surprising how many people want stuff on a silver platter (like literally 20 attempts into the boss)

[serene tendon]

If playing on Revengeance, lowering the difficulty to expert will likely make the boss harder (and less interesting) since you don't have rippers. Minmaxing can only go so far.

[serene tendon]

Yes, other cheeses exist, therefore there is no reason to allow some and ban others

[small timber]

your assumption is that people's definition of "fun" is blowing up bosses with explosive bunny, instead of playing the game

if they want to invalidate bosses by instantly killing them then let them install their butchers and cheat sheets

[small timber]

reason is simple: one is literally that if you know dynamite combine with bunny you can think of, others are some sophisticated random stuff that people probably will never think of outside of discovery by really creative people on youtube

[serene tendon]

No, I'm saying it'd be way more fun than just installing cheat sheet (which is boring)

[glass arch]

would it really be more fun though

[small timber]

exploding bosses with bunny to instantly kill them is boring for me

[blazing kettle]

theres no fun in no challenge

[glass arch]

its just cheat sheet butcher with crafting involved

[serene tendon]

So is killing a boss knowing that you've cheated in stuff you're not supposed to have

[blazing kettle]

ever wobder why everyon plays on expert mode and not classic?

[small timber]

you are the one trying to invalidate bosses, not me

I get fun from fighting them legitimately

[golden tulip]

because the bosses are more fun

[serene tendon]

I agree with this, but I am making the argument for those who do not agree

[serene tendon]

And neither you nor I would be likely to resort to cheese for a difficult boss. But not everybody's brain works that way

The policy should not be "screw anyone who doesn't have the same definition of fun as us"

[small timber]

then why are you arguing for a part of the community that you are not even part of? why do you just assume they will be unwilling to install external mods to invalidate bosses and only by cheesing them is "fun" for them? if that part of the community exist how large is them? 0.1%? 1%? 10%?

there are even mods that are just supposed to "help" (in terms of how it feels at least) like boots slot and wing slots, or even alchemistnpc, fargos etc but the assumption is just that they will never use these when they can't defeat the boss and their only option is to cheese? and specifically only explosive bunny will work for their satisfaction?

tldr this is going in circle, the devs seem to not plan to unnerfing explosive bunny anyway so arguing for it is pointless

[swift wharf]

lances were always cucked

the nerf is GOOD but it also needs a buff

[golden tulip]

least stupid eclipse take

[swift wharf]

in vanilla they suck UNLESS you do the setup

otherwise, they fucking suck as regular weapons

they should've made a cap AND buffed them to work as normal weapons

now the 0.1% of people who use them went to 0.001%

[small timber]

I always felt the more natural solution would had been fixing inner tube giving infinity acceleration (for some reason) rather than cap lance damage but maybe just me

[swift wharf]

also it's way easier to do the funny trick in cal

not as easy because burden breaker 2 nerf byea

anyways why do we need to care about 0.1% of players.................

The REAL solution is simply keep nerfign the funny cheeses

so people find more of them

THAT is the fun

finding NEW ways to break the game

• the people who "care" about them will get mad so extra points

[serene tendon]

Nope, that honor would go to his hatred of ore slimes

[golden tulip]

are you implying that take is stupid or not stupid

[serene tendon]

Hating ore slimes is a very good take

[golden tulip]

hmm yes

[swift wharf]

he did not get it

anyways using known glitches and funnies is boring..,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,.

just find new ways to abuse the game

[serene tendon]

You know, it'd be really cool if Cal added random hidden cheeses for the players to discover, that were patched each update and replaced with new ones

[swift wharf]

but they did

just find them

[serene tendon]

I don't mean specific "perfectly balanced" weapons

[golden tulip]

theyve been doing this for 3 years mewk

you just havent found them

like that one time you could drown crabulon if you spawned him in water

[serene tendon]

Seems like a conspiracy theory. Unless the vent and wulfrum armor glitches and such were done on purpose

[swift wharf]

i do know a few

but i wont tell them

[golden tulip]

vent?

[swift wharf]

i still need to test to see if I can spawnglitch emechs

but that requires opening terraria

👴

[half imp]

only nerf the cheeses that are funny but not funny enough

or that are too practical ofc

[serene tendon]

The sulphurous seas vents glitch

[hollow shell]

[half imp]

[drowsy plank]

i feel like asking why lances got nerfed is ignoring the fact that this mod has momentum capacitor and the wulfrum hook

building up ludicrous speed in calamity is not hard, and im sure if lances didn't get capped people would eventually find something even simpler than the whole fuckin water tube setup that utterly broke them

[half imp]

yeah

wulfrum acro pack + pogo + glorious end + lances

would be so insane

[drowsy plank]

furthermore cheese strategies are
fucking stupid even vanilla agrees on this
it's like arguing that red should've never removed the chest dupe glitch because it """imposes on the sandbox nature of the game""" because people can't spawn in infinite items by places a chest on bars

[glass arch]

if you want to have infinite everything just play with cheat sheet or journey mode

[golden tulip]

the whole argument was just done why did you have to bring it back

[drowsy plank]

lol sorry

i showed up late

[hollow shell]

at the time they got nerfed, those items didn't exist in their current functionality

[golden tulip]

isnt momentum capacitator being removed too

or am i misremembering

or reworked

idk

[half imp]

won't work during a boss

[golden tulip]

is that it

ic

also how does using the wulfrum hook give you a lot of momentum? i havent used it a lot but i know it just makes you swing realistically

[half imp]

hehe I get to post the video

basically release glorious end and jump off the hook at the exact same moment

the hook is trying to pull you j to it's intended range with some insane speed so you just

zoom

(that video was on a large world)

[golden tulip]

so... its some oddly specific tech in hardmode+

...not that big a deal

[drowsy plank]

that's fair but i feel like the important part is the whole "people would eventually find something even simpler... that utterly broke them"

[drowsy plank]

i mean that is also when you get jousting lances
the whole point i was making is slapping this + lances together would be easy as hell if they were uncapped
like the biggest issue would probably be lining it up at most

[half imp]

you get a lance prehardmode

the other two are hardmode though

[drowsy plank]

no they are

all hardmode

i just checked

[half imp]

really?

huh

[glass arch]

dark lance isnt hardmode

its from shadow chests

[drowsy plank]

jousting lances, should've specified. regardless dark lance isn't even a lance, it's a spear lmfao

[glass arch]

oh yeah jousting lances not dark lance

[half imp]

That's not a jousting lance

[glass arch]

i mix those up

[half imp]

yea

[drowsy plank]

it's not even actually a lance it's a spear the wiki even calls it that

[glass arch]

names are confusing ok

[golden tulip]

i swear theres a lance that you can get prehm wtf

[half imp]

I thought the first one was phm but ig not

[drowsy plank]

they're so forgettable and they're only 30% bestiary completion so it's easy to not realize they're locked to hardmode

plus zoologist

[glass arch]

it might just be dark lance being confusing

[golden tulip]

maybe i was thinking of a whip

[serene tendon]

Isn't there?

The normal one is

[drowsy plank]

there isnt

i just

posted the pictures

[serene tendon]

huh

I could have sworn the regular one was PHM

[fossil finch]

theres like

no reason to be rushing these items to preboss though

[fervent orbit]

"but i want my fairy boots/terrapsark boots pre boss"

[grim tusk]

Aint jungle rose used in a couple of recipes

[glass arch]

fairy boots and yatevo bloom are the ones i can think of

[fossil finch]

it is used in like

3 recipes

but like

two of them are those

no reason to be making it super easy to get them pre boss imo

[grim tusk]

Still 100% droprate is

[fervent orbit]

staff of regrowth
flower boots
obsidian rose

[glass arch]

isnt the other one obsidian flower or smth

[fervent orbit]

so literally 3 recipes

[glass arch]

no no theres 4

because fairy boots

[fossil finch]

also itd probably be very quick in bloating your inv with shit

[glass arch]

wait no fuck you said that its yatevo bloom

[fervent orbit]

oh right yateveo bloom

[fossil finch]

ALL of you were WRONG

[fervent orbit]

mana rose.....exists

[glass arch]

mana rose is silly

[fossil finch]

anyways i dont think theres a reason to make it Ultra Easy to get these pre eoc

especially not a 100% drop rate

like this is just

[glass arch]

certainly not

[fossil finch]

such a non issue

[fervent orbit]

this guy was prob just complaining about how hard it is grinding terraspark preboss and decided to make a suggestion for jungle rose since it had more than one use

[fossil finch]

teh sugg itself also doesnt give any argument as to why you would need to craft any of these items pre boss

[glass arch]

they wanted to make yateveo bloom and flower boots for eoc

[fossil finch]

simply dont use those

[blazing kettle]

omgee? my almost useless boots are hard to get? not on my watch

[glass arch]

flower boots are not almost useless

[fossil finch]

flower boots cringe anyway imagine ever using calamity reworked items

[fervent orbit]

blade of grass also inflicts a good debuff on eoc, just use that

[blazing kettle]

referring to terraspark

fairy boots are great

[glass arch]

oh terraspark

does that even need flower boots tho

[fossil finch]

terraspark arent really useless eithe

[fervent orbit]

yes

[fossil finch]

no it doesnt

it does use obsidian rose

(lava waders do)

[fervent orbit]

either boots use jungle rose in crafting

[fossil finch]

no?????

[glass arch]

no

[fervent orbit]

obsidian rose for terraspark
flower boots for fairy

[glass arch]

ok but you dont need to craft obsidian rose

[fervent orbit]

i never said u have to

[grim tusk]

@lament shore i suggest you suggest that we just increase the droprate, having them be 100% would be the opposite problem and just result in inventory bloat

[lament shore]

I am no balancer, is it enough if I just say "increase"?

[fervent orbit]

yes

just change the title to

"Increase the drop rate of Jungle Rose"

and maybe give a reason as why it would be helpful pre boss

like saying how all the crafts are pre boss

[frosty trellis]

Mana Rose
Obi Rose
Flower Boots
Staff of Regrowth
Yateveo Bloom

Enough to warrant a drop rate increase

Doesn't need to be guarenteed

But more than 5% is very reasonable

[lament shore]

i... want to?

aren't the purpose of QoL's in general just to fix specific tedious situations

and calamity has a lot of those last time I checked

[drowsy plank]

i was so confused for a minute so appearntly the thing jungle rose drops from is just part of normal jungle grass
i thought it was like nature's gift where it grows uniquely kinda like spores

why the fuck did they program it that way LMFAO

[lament shore]

no it grows uniquely like nature's gift

it has it's own sprite too

[drowsy plank]

yes but it is also just considered part of the normal jungle grass spawn pool

hence the 5% drop chance

[lament shore]

oh I didn't know that

[drowsy plank]

nature's gift is explicitly unique and rarer

yeah i immediately went and looked this up

[lament shore]

when there's a lot of sprite variations you would think you'd have inventory bloat even with 5% chance

but nope

spent 45 mins looking for one

spamming my sword

but nah

eventually I just quit and used cheat sheet to get some

but since that's not legitimate I don't feel good getting it

[drowsy plank]

frankly id consider just asking jungle rose to be reworked to grow like nature's gift instead
this whole thing feels like it needs a hard look over because the way they're described on the wiki makes no sense

like why make it a 5% drop on top of a % chance for the flower to grow through normal grass variation instead of just... doing what nature's gift does

like it's literally right there and a better way to handle it

[lament shore]

no I can see it being a 5% drop on vanilla

it's purely cosmetic

"oh hey look at this random item clogging my inventory, looks nice on my character though"

but on calamity you use it for some early-game items

[drowsy plank]

i understand but it's a % on a % like i would just consolidate it into one thing, just make the rose unique and put the rarity into that

[swift wharf]

what is the point of this suggestion again

oh wait

[worldly basalt]

to make jungle rose more common

[swift wharf]

THERES NONE

yea but why

for 1 weapon

[glass arch]

2

[worldly basalt]

because it's needed for lots of early recipes

[drowsy plank]

2 weapons, 2 accessories, and a tool

[swift wharf]

yes those recipes are 100% needed for p r e b o s s

[glass arch]

2 weapons, obsidian rose, staff of regrowth, fairy boots

[lament shore]

why are people getting steamed up for 2 lines of code lol

[swift wharf]

you're not supposed to have everything in p r e b o s s

[glass arch]

yeah

[drowsy plank]

ok but

[swift wharf]

[drowsy plank]

if we made them less ass to get we wouldnt need dryad to sell them

[glass arch]

if its a pain in the ass to get preboss just... kill eoc and fucking buy it

[worldly basalt]

then why is the stuff you craft with it balanced for preboss

[swift wharf]

what does that even MEAN

maybe bloom

[lament shore]

man can you calm down

[swift wharf]

but mana rose is not

[glass arch]

isnt yateveo stupidly strong because of debuffs

[lament shore]

it is

combined with fungal it's great for crowd control too

[glass arch]

ok so that makes it kinda clear its viable past eoc

[drowsy plank]

dryad selling the roses is just like how NPCs sell potions
it's just proof of a bigger issue in obtaining those items
i dont get what the issue would be with just making rose more consistent, because the way it works right now makes no fucking sense at all

[swift wharf]

rng can still fuck you

[drowsy plank]

of course but at least with nature's gift once you see one you know you have it

[lament shore]

it did me IN THE ASS for a solid 2 hours

[swift wharf]

then kill eoc

or any of the bosses that let dryad spawn

do you really need those 5 items

[lament shore]

I am playing on infernum bosses aren't that easy

[swift wharf]

i dont see how that's relevant but ok

[lament shore]

I am also playing true melee yateveo really helps

[fossil finch]

it used to be more common drop chance because it held the place of jungle spores

[drowsy plank]

oh

huh

[fossil finch]

honestly

[swift wharf]

lma

[fossil finch]

you know what i think would be a better option

remove jungle rose from all those recipes

[swift wharf]

jonor item....

[glass arch]

or letting you craft jungle rose from natures gift

[swift wharf]

graveyard recipes......

[fossil finch]

why are we fixing a self created problem instead of removing the problem
Donor item more like i killa witha rocka

[glass arch]

although with shimmer thats less of a problem iirc

[swift wharf]

we are indeed fixing a problem that does not exist, yes

[drowsy plank]

true

it would be like if you could craft book of skulls but you had to get the skull vanity item

[fossil finch]

the solution to this problem is removing yateveo bloom too because it is a donor ite

[swift wharf]

TRUE AND REAL

[drowsy plank]

like maybe these are just supposed to be rare vanity items and not the crux of an entire branch of crafting lmfao

[lament shore]

this man's really pissed off for the suggestion of 2 LINES of code lmfao

[fossil finch]

how am i pissed what the fuck

[lament shore]

no I am not talking about you

[swift wharf]

you're complaining because you can't make a true melee weapon

so like

[fossil finch]

also you know whats better than 2 lines of code

[swift wharf]

0 lines of code

:)

[worldly basalt]

good idea, lets delete the entire mod that would be funny 👍

[glass arch]

-2 lines of code is better

[fossil finch]

-X lines of code (because youre removing the lines that state jungle rose go in these recipes

[worldly basalt]

no code, no problems 😊

[swift wharf]

I mean you can keep jungle rose in some of those recipes

because dryad sells them

[fossil finch]

that is true too we need to redo calamity entirely for it to ever be something more than mid

[swift wharf]

calamity player complains about the game suggestion n3239

[lament shore]

also like I don't understand why you don't want this happening at all

[glass arch]

shimmer

[swift wharf]

shimmer W

[lament shore]

I admit, wanting it to be guarenteed is fucking stupid

but increased rate wouldn't hurt anyone

right?

[fossil finch]

1000% of this channel is just searching for better solutions because the suggestions usually go for the worst ones

[swift wharf]

you see theres no point

[glass arch]

wait what the fuck you cant shimmer them

[fossil finch]

i do not want this happening because if i were a dev id fix this by doing a totally different thing

[swift wharf]

also there are other true melee weapons.....

like idk blade of grass

[glass arch]

why the fuck can i not shimmer jungle rose to natures gift and the other way around

[lament shore]

blade of grass fucking sucks tbh

[fossil finch]

i am going back in time to get donors of the menu

that's righ

[swift wharf]

skill is

[glass arch]

debuffs tho

[drowsy plank]

i still think it should be guaranteed and just turned back into something like spores or gift bc the original change away from being like them was Dumb

[lament shore]

venom vs poison

[glass arch]

ease of obtainment

[swift wharf]

you could make it guaranteed but theres also the chance of you dont get any either

[drowsy plank]

wait yaveto inflict venom

[swift wharf]

or not finding the plant tile

[fossil finch]

yateveo should inflict your pc with a deadly virus so you never use a donor item ever again

[lament shore]

the plant itself is fairly common or rare depending on who you ask

[swift wharf]

really

[lament shore]

also I am over on wanting to be guarenteed hello?

[fossil finch]

that statement is literally void

it contradicts itself

[swift wharf]

i know cal npc shops are scuffed but like

the solution is right there

😭

[fossil finch]

i just think this is a non issue

[glass arch]

like yes i could get the SuperMegaUltraFuckShitUpper9000 if i spend 30 days and 30 nights looking for the OneUseItem and beat everything in one shot, or i could get a different weapon that performs worse but is miles easier to use and is a lot easier to get

[drowsy plank]

okay actually i agree i hate this weapon

[fossil finch]

and if it was actually an issue the better way to fix it would be by like
removing jungle rose from recipes

instead of making jungle rose more common

[swift wharf]

yeah you see ender

you could do that

[fossil finch]

or you could beat fucking eoc anyway

[glass arch]

theres this too

[swift wharf]

but you're not meant to get all of those items at the start of the game

so removing it or not does not matter

they're pretty much free after eoc

[lament shore]

yeah there's the fact: it kinda hard with certain classes and difficulties

[swift wharf]

by free i mean rng free ig

[fossil finch]

there is

[swift wharf]

i mean you're playing infernum

[fossil finch]

so many melee options that destroy eoc

that are not yateveo

[swift wharf]

but true melee 😭

[fossil finch]

true melee players when i

[glass arch]

true melee is a self imposed challenge

[fossil finch]

killa them with a rocka

[swift wharf]

when the challenging playstyle on the challenging difficulty is challenging

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[frosty trellis]

(It's SS Tier on the nohit tier list for a reason. It melts shit)

[swift wharf]

balance 🫰

[frosty trellis]

Debuff moment

[drowsy plank]

89 - Caustic Edge, Yateveo Bloom and Urchin Flail no longer inflict Acid Venom. - Done

at least it's gonna die

[glass arch]

the devs should not cater to a group of people to make one specific self imposed challenge easier

[swift wharf]

lma

[lament shore]

i aint complaining the bosses being challenging though

the items I want for them are tedious to get

[drowsy plank]

also that explains why caustic also shreads lmfaooooo

[swift wharf]

just buy the itemgnrjgdfgnfdgnd

what is stopping you from buying them