suggestions-discussion

[half imp]

instead of spectre boots

[glass arch]

at the very least they need to be able to be made into terraspark so you dont get fucked out of angel treads

[drowsy plank]

im wondering if they're just gonna put waders and boots on treads

hence the whole "put hellstone in it" thing

[half imp]

nah i disagree

instead

[drowsy plank]

kinda like the shinobi infiltrator sugg where it doesn't remove the vanilla thing it just stacks it with what calamity does

[half imp]

make fairy + hellfire an angel tread competitor

probably post plant at the earliest bc that'll be an insane combo

but slower run speed and less flight time than angel treads gives a reason to pick one or the other

[drowsy plank]

i mean terra and treads already have that sort of dichotomy, and with the debuff nerfs im really not sure how much better treads would even be than spark if it had both boots and waders like in vanilla

[half imp]

well

[drowsy plank]

treads are slower, and fairy still kinda outclasses both of them, though i suppose one could see it as a damage/movement/defense triad (though fairy still has better movement than spark rn LOL)

[half imp]

it's more of

damage/movement/all-around versatility for HF/fairy/spark

since spark does the lava and water walking stuff

then later in the game it would be movement vs assorted stats for Treads vs a HF/Fairy upgrade

[drowsy plank]

i suppose i can see it

i know sabaton got buffs, i hope the rest of the boots do get addressed too lol

[half imp]

thank goodness

i wanted to love sabaton but man

it really needed buffs or a tinker that does more than just the sabaton effect

[frail mantle]

[[Siren Proof Earmuffs]]

[red storm]

https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Siren_Proof_Earmuffs?action=edit&redlink=1

[frail mantle]

fuck

!wiki siren proof earmuffs

i admit defeat

[swift wharf]

!wiki siren-proof earmuffs

[frail mantle]

anyway @old prism this item already exists, iirc crafted with flinx fur and some other shit

called siren proof something

[swift wharf]

!wiki sirenproof earmuffs

[red storm]

https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Sirenproof_Earmuffs

[old prism]

thx

[half imp]

eventually

You got it

[small timber]

how does the suggestion work with multi-hook hook?

[gray nebula]

sounds like it'd accidentally make hooks p op

[half imp]

yeah hooks kinda broken already

maybe like

hook of dissonance could have that

make it so the absolutely abysmal speed it has isn't as big an issue

[hollow shell]

@serene tendon You actually can throw out a hook while you already have a hook out
with... most hooks, because they can have multiple simultaneous hooks

This sugg really only applies to the base grapple and Gem hooks

which I don't think is a bad thing because they're supposed to be your basic and worst hooks

[serene tendon]

fair

[frosty trellis]

(You do realize diamond hook is your best hook until hardmode, right?)

[serene tendon]

But often 1-hooks are the best anyway

[frosty trellis]

Yeah

Besides Lunar, Diamond/Tendon/Bat/Bobbit are your best bests and those are one hook

[serene tendon]

Tendon is 3-hook

[frosty trellis]

Is it?

(Oh also hook of dissonance is 1 hook and that has it's uses)

[serene tendon]

Also you forgot the Hook of Dissonance, which can be better than all of those depending on the situation

I was in the middle of writing when you mentioned it

[frosty trellis]

LOL

Dissonance is great for dest pre ornate

[half imp]

and dissonance

[frosty trellis]

And bat

And bobbit

[half imp]

bobbit has 2

[frosty trellis]

Bobbit has 2?

Wot?

[serene tendon]

It's also the best hook for SCal from what I've seen, since precision is better than speed in that fight

[half imp]

only one can be latched but it has 2

Like static

[hollow shell]

Dual Hook is like that too

[frosty trellis]

I don't personally like hook of dissonace for SCal

[half imp]

Static hook is better imo

[small timber]

bobbit is 2

[serene tendon]

That's the best kind of hook, it's the best of both worlds

[frosty trellis]

Well, okay so gem, dissonace, and bat

That's like

The best hooks

Until lunar

And even then there are arguments otherwise

[serene tendon]

Of course, if you fill the entirety of the SCal box with rails it doesn't matter what hook you use

But I don't

[half imp]

The only hook I'd even consider giving the buff to is dissonance, but I think a better buff would be ever so slightly more flight speed

[small timber]

and the thing is chances are if you "miss hook" it is because the hook's length is garbage rather than bad aim

[serene tendon]

Use Cosmic Car Key or something for that

[frosty trellis]

I don't lol
I just use bobbit bc force of habbit + Bobbit launching is nice for post bh4 at times

[half imp]

hook length or speed

[half imp]

that doesn't refresh flight time

Static does

[frosty trellis]

(Also static is better for precision than car key)

(And brimrose)

[half imp]

ehh

[serene tendon]

I guess, but during the BHs fast movement is the last thing you want, and I had them in mind

[frosty trellis]

Bh5 I can sometimes move fast as fuck so idk what you're talking about LOL

[serene tendon]

I mean you gotta be precise, and bobbit hook is not

[frosty trellis]

If I need slow controlled shit void sash climbing claws effect or just not hook bc drew's gives a ton of flight time

(Yes, I am one of the two people who use Statis's Void Sash)

[half imp]

or just hook and unhook with static :)

for more flight time with tracers

honestly though hooks in general are fine

[frosty trellis]

(Oh yeah, if using c.tracers bobbit is a lifesaver bc of how fast the hook reaches it's destination)

[serene tendon]

Yeah, it's just annoying getting killed in the earlygame because the gem hook can't reach quite far enough

[half imp]

The only ones that could use a buff is like... Antigravity

maybe dissonance

[small timber]

I feel the best solution will be just make single hook act like bobbit

[hollow shell]

And Dissonance is Hardmode which means the sugg no longer applies for fall damage (wings)

Diamond and Bat are fair I suppose
(I can't remember if we/vanilla added a reliable way to obtain Bat)

(though, if they're the best hooks already then why do they need to be buffed like this)

[small timber]

rather than press E to cancel because trust me if you panic hook last thing you want is accidently cancelling it by spamming E

[frosty trellis]

Fledgling Wings exist in phm so

[serene tendon]

or dual, but yeah, you get the best of both worlds that way

[hollow shell]

lol Indeed

[serene tendon]

Fledgling wings are also garbage

#Balloongang

[frosty trellis]

So true

[serene tendon]

Especially since you can craft Sandstorm in a Bottle

[frosty trellis]

Me who uses yellow horseshoe balloon until hardmode with no wings

[serene tendon]

Me who uses Bundle Of Balloons for mechs

[small timber]

or you can just use blizzard balloon with wings in vanity slot for vertical boost

[serene tendon]

I find it funny how Cal made BOB post-2ndevilboss, but the Sandstorm, which carries the bundle, is still pre-boss

[hollow shell]

lol!.

[drowsy plank]

bat is a hardmode exclusive drop from vampires

[serene tendon]

But by then other hooks exist and (unless Cal reverted the 1.4 nerf) are just better

[drowsy plank]

that is just

not true

bat is probably the best hook in vanilla

[hollow shell]

Is it??

[serene tendon]

Didn't it get hard nerfed in 1.4?

[drowsy plank]

i dont think so

[serene tendon]

I'll look it up

[hollow shell]

Oh yeah there it is

[serene tendon]

The Bat Hook is a rare pre-Hardmode grappling hook which is received by opening Goodie Bags (0.67% chance). It launches a single hook which reaches 31.25 tiles at maximum length.

On Old-gen console version Old-gen console and Nintendo 3DS version, the Bat Hook has a pull-in speed of 16 and a hook velocity of 15.5. This is the fastest pull-in speed of any hook in the game.

On the Desktop version Desktop version, Console version Console version, and Mobile version Mobile version, the Bat Hook has a pull-in speed of 13 and a hook velocity of 13.5, which still makes it a very fast hook that can be acquired in the early game. It has the longest reach of all pre-Hardmode hooks, as well; still, some players may find a multi-hook (such as the Ivy Whip) preferable.

[drowsy plank]

https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/2.0.1.001
"Removed Bat Hook from the drop pool of Goodie Bags."

https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Vanilla_changes/Drops
"Bat Hook Bat Hook Tool Vampire 1 2.5% / 5% Expert Mode"

[hollow shell]

I'll need to add that to this page
https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Events

[serene tendon]

So the pull speed got nerfed a bit, but reach is the same

So it's probably still OP

[hollow shell]

myeahb

[frosty trellis]

Bat is the best just standard hook until lunar

Which has better stats

[drowsy plank]

something else worth pointing out is im pretty sure bat's pull in speed is still higher than 90% of hooks

even after getting nerfed

[small timber]

the only contender is serpent's bite

[drowsy plank]

luckily the vanilla wiki
does not list this stat whatsoever :)

[small timber]

reason is because every single other vanilla hooks just sucks one way or another, they tend to have longer reach but their speed (either launch speed or the speed it pulls the player) is just garbage
(until lunar)

[drowsy plank]

serpent's bite has the same velocity as lunar

[hollow shell]

(according to vanilla wiki, Skeletron Hand is the best PreHM hook for pull speed)

[small timber]

serpent's bite trade some player pull speed for launch speed/velocity iirc

[hollow shell]

Unfortunately yes, this. Annoying.

[drowsy plank]

i dont trust them, but i have a hunch that cal probably buffed bat and its just undocumented
i would check if i wasn't stuck in class, because bat still feels really good

[small timber]

the two are very close, I like bite more just because it is more annoying to hook cancel with bat

[frosty trellis]

So THATS why it was so nice for my twins nohit

And Aquatic Scourge

I was wondering why serpents bite was doing way better than I expected

[small timber]

iirc bite is contender with lunar hook since it have about same velocity, but higher player pull speed but less reach

[frosty trellis]

28 blocks of reach iirc

[small timber]

a lot less reach, but yeah

[frosty trellis]

Which frankly isn't even that bad

28 blocks is plenty generally

[small timber]

nah reach is important, the later the game it is the more important reach become

28 is useful for awhile for HM but when you reach post-ML it will be lacking

[frosty trellis]

(Actually for me 28 is fine for providence due to my platforms usually being closer together for her to help avoid the stars and spears)

[hollow shell]

I brought it up in the vanilla wiki server just now.

[drowsy plank]

i should bother people in the vanilla wiki server more often about stuff like this

i forgot they prolly also have wiki channels

[blazing kettle]

cant you hold down S to cancel a grapple without jumping?

[frosty trellis]

No

At least, not that I'm aware of

(I hold s a ton for the 1.4 fastfall and never experienced that)

[drowsy plank]

does seem like a much better option than this tho tbh lmao

[hollow shell]

1.4 fastfall??

[frosty trellis]

Holding down the s key in 1.4 onwards immediately puts you at the fastest you can fall down normally which is so nice for dodging

[hollow shell]

That's Calamity.

[frosty trellis]

????

Is it?

[hollow shell]

We even added a config for it

[frosty trellis]

I swore that was a vanilla thing bc I swore I remember using it in vanilla

Huh

[small timber]

vanilla only works with featherfall

calamity one dont have condition

[frosty trellis]

Ic

[hollow shell]

wow that's a scummy screengrab

but yeah that was a thing we talked about in the dev server, had a vote to add these configs

[hollow shell]

This would be better control-wise than pressing grapple again

[hollow shell]

because ^

[serene tendon]

Ok, fair

I'll change it

done

[hollow shell]

[frosty trellis]

Launch velocity, not pull speed
Every hook in phm has the same pull speed

Phm:
Diamond has the best reach (29.125 blocks)
Skeletron hand has the best Launch velocity (15)
Amber and Ivy whip are tied for the fastest realback velocity (15)
(All phm hooks have the same pull velocity of 11)
Hardmode:
Static Hook has the best reach (37 blocks)
Serpents Bite and Lunar hook are tied for the best launch velocity (18)
Static Hook and lunar hook has the best realback (24), second place going to christmas and spooky (22)
Lunar has the best pull velocity (16) second place going to bat (13)

(Just a little hook thing I made after getting all the hooks in line)

[hollow shell]

oh god reelback velocity too
How much does that vary

[frosty trellis]

Between 11 and 15 in phm
Between 14 (Serpents Bite) and 24 (lunar) in hardmode

(Oh wait fish is phm I am dum)

[hollow shell]

I meant like, is it like pull speed where it's more or less the same globally with a few exceptions, or does it vary from hook to hook like launch velocity?

[frosty trellis]

Vary from hook to hook
Serpents: 14
Christmas: 17
Mimic Hooks: 18
Spooky: 22
Lunar: 24

To give some examples

[hollow shell]

Fuck.

[half imp]

hooks are minorly annoying to balance

but unless they're incredibly strong it's not super notable usually

ie prehardmode pre nerf bat hook was crazy

[frosty trellis]

Bobbit hook being just cheese:

[swift wharf]

make all hooks into accessories

[hollow shell]

based? (pain)

[swift wharf]

what i do not understand is why bat hook is good and candy cane hook is bad

pre-nerf

[hollow shell]

Because vanilla funny

[swift wharf]

maybe they're the same after the nerf

[hollow shell]

Nope Candy Cane is still worse in every aspect

[frosty trellis]

(Candy Cane is just worse diamond hook)

(Bat is just goated until lunar)

[hollow shell]

Candy Cane is roughly equal to Emerald Hook

[hollow shell]

byeah and Bat still has an unlisted higher pull speed

[swift wharf]

bálànçê

candy cane is worth more money tho

[fossil finch]

npcs want that peppermint

[frosty trellis]

Bat:
Reach: 31.250
Launch Velocity: 13.5
Realback Velocity: 20
Pull Velocity: 13

[swift wharf]

tbf presents are more common

and they have other drops

(useful drops)

[frosty trellis]

(Goodie bags give costumes which sell well for some ez money)

[swift wharf]

2 accs, the sword, pick, hook, rifle and snow globe vs hook and rotten eggs

[hollow shell]

(they also clog up your inventory and storages like a bitch )

[frosty trellis]

Just sell the costumes lol

[half imp]

goodie bags suck tbh tbh

[hollow shell]

I cannot I MUST hoard one of every item I get

[swift wharf]

auto trash 💅

[frosty trellis]

Hand warmer and....?

[half imp]

only good thing in cal is rotten eggs

[swift wharf]

toolbox

[frosty trellis]

Lmaooooooo

[swift wharf]

increases tool and tile placement range

[half imp]

you also forgot the foods

[swift wharf]

oh shit true

[frosty trellis]

Yeah t3 foodstuffs

[half imp]

And the healing pot effect of some items

[hollow shell]

Presents do give nice foods

[frosty trellis]

Which is why I have Christmas at all times

Farm a few blood moons and perma t3 food buff with fagos

[half imp]

there's also star anise but I don't think anyone uses those besides at most the first 10 minutes

[swift wharf]

fargo makes so present slimes that drop presents spawn but htat is not relevant

[swift wharf]

I didn't even bother to scroll past this

[half imp]

Lol

The big ones are food, red Ryder, and maybe the pick or sword

Idk how good they are

[hollow shell]

(I was about to say "Holly is good post-1.4 cuz of its area buff" but that's not a thing, I was thinking of Thorium Mod's "Mistletoe". No idea why I had that on the mind)

[frosty trellis]

Sword is alr
Pick is about the same as tungsten
Hook is worse than diamond
Ryder is decent
The Chakaram is surprisingly great if you can get it before thorn as it's nice ranged damage for melee

[hollow shell]

Reindeer Antlers are a great vanity too

[frosty trellis]

LOL

I'll keep my Chlorophyte melee set thanks

[hollow shell]

Also what Ryder is actually decent? I thought it was like the worst gun in existence

[frosty trellis]

It's fine for when you get it (and it's not The Undertaker that's for sure)

Allows you to skip corruption cavern/crimson cavern exploration as well since it spawns the arms dealer

[hollow shell]

Yeah that's the best plus of it, being a very early and inexpensive gun (both in terms of literal price and low risk)

.. provided you get good RNG

[frosty trellis]

Yeah

But it's nice for it's stage

Better than the bows you have if you don't have Frostburn arrows and a high ore tier bow that's for sure

[half imp]

exactly

It's good because skip corruption for arms dealer

[frosty trellis]

Yep

(Corruption caverns are ass. That's why I play crimson)

[half imp]

corruption is better tbh tbh

[frosty trellis]

The only reason corruption is better is bc it doesn't have the worst boss in vanilla to ever exist

BoC

[half imp]

and it's purple

and it has the cooler albeit worse armor and dungeon chest

[drowsy plank]

well new cal shadow is kinda cracked

[worldly basalt]

i prefer boc to eow tbh

[serene tendon]

You know it doesn't telefrag as of 1.4.4, right?

[glass arch]

i prefer boc to eow except for one thing

[frosty trellis]

I don't buy that

[glass arch]

the god damn DEBUFFS who the FUCK decided to give the creepers CURSED

[serene tendon]

It's not that bad, it's just a couple seconds

[glass arch]

a couple seconds where i cant even heal

[serene tendon]

Alternatively you can just dodge the creepers

[serene tendon]

It's in the changelogs, you can check. 1.4.4.8 I think

[swift wharf]

cursed is a shit debuff

[serene tendon]

Tbh it only exists so Nazar can be good

They make a horrible debuff so that a debuff-canceling acc can be good

[glass arch]

terraria moment

[swift wharf]

so true can we remove ankh shield from asgard's line

[serene tendon]

I would be just fine with cursed and the way to avoid it if it didn't disable hooks and potions.

And dashes, if I remember correctly

[frosty trellis]

Y E S

Put it on sponge so we can have a post ml knockback immunity accessory that isn't aegis

[swift wharf]

what if ankh charm gave a revive because spelunky haha

[frosty trellis]

NO

[swift wharf]

but then the effect is lost in ankh shield

because

[serene tendon]

What does that have to do with this?

[swift wharf]

nothing

[frosty trellis]

Lets not give us more revives thankyouverymuch

[swift wharf]

lets give more revives

[frosty trellis]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[swift wharf]

the only other revive in that tier is for mhages

[frosty trellis]

Okay

But then

[swift wharf]

and because ✨ it fits ✨

[frosty trellis]

Revive stacking

[swift wharf]

simply remove it

[serene tendon]

Dodges > Revives, change my mind

[frosty trellis]

TRUE

[swift wharf]

make so revives are shared with dodges

[frosty trellis]

Statis's Void Sash my beloved

[serene tendon]

No

[swift wharf]

i worded that wrongly

make so revives are shared between them

like dodges are shared with other dodges

[serene tendon]

Ah, ok

I agree with that

[swift wharf]

ez fix

anyways yeah can we remove ankh shield from asgard valor aha

then we add it to some goofy acceessory later on for the vine

[serene tendon]

although there should be some kind of benefit for using multiple dodge/revive accs. Shouldn't be full value, but yeah

[swift wharf]

maybe it could shave some seconds but ikd

[frosty trellis]

DO

NOT

[swift wharf]

im no balance man

[frosty trellis]

Abyssal/Eclipse Mirror dodge would fuck that up so much

[swift wharf]

me mirror.....

[serene tendon]

Yeah, maybe equipping multiple dodges could shorten the cooldown by 15 seconds each

[swift wharf]

i remember when my username was actually eclipse mirror

[frosty trellis]

GOOD FUCKING LORD

[swift wharf]

brother i was thinking of like

[frosty trellis]

Mewk there is a problem

[swift wharf]

5 seconds MAX

[frosty trellis]

With that

Equip two dodges + e.scarf

[swift wharf]

4 accessories would be

[frosty trellis]

Boom

Invinicble

[swift wharf]

immortality

[frosty trellis]

Yeah

[serene tendon]

10 seconds

[frosty trellis]

Even 5 seconds per extra dodge is obscene

There is a reason it's 90

In the first place

[swift wharf]

oh it's 90 not 60

[serene tendon]

No? You're sacrificing acc slots

[swift wharf]

lma

[serene tendon]

1 slot for 5 seconds is a horrible tradeoff

[frosty trellis]

E.scarf dodge in question:

Which is 30 seconds

[serene tendon]

You do know that that one is separate from other dodges?

[frosty trellis]

Wait it is....?

[serene tendon]

Yes

[frosty trellis]

(Please tell me that isn't that case)

F U C K

[serene tendon]

I'm not joking

[frosty trellis]

Jesus fuck that's

[swift wharf]

different cooldown?

[frosty trellis]

Apparently

[swift wharf]

you're supposed to know that .. . . .

[frosty trellis]

Can have e.scarf 30 second dodge and another 90 second dodge on top of it

That's

[serene tendon]

Escarf requires timing, it's like a worse ram

[frosty trellis]

Totally not broken at all

[frosty trellis]

No

No no no

E.scarf cheeses the fuck outta scal

Bc you can dash through Projectiles

It is not simply a "worse ram"

[serene tendon]

being immune to contact damage if you time it right with no cooldown is NOT equal to being able to dodge anything if you time it right on a 30 second cooldown

I get that I-frames exist but still

[frosty trellis]

It's far more broken than people give it credit for

And like, the only ram heavy fights are Duke Fishron and Yharon

[serene tendon]

If Escarf is broken, the I-frames are what make it so. Same with the Rampart of Deities

[frosty trellis]

It's not even the iframes

Having a dodge on a 30 second cooldown on say SCal, a 5 minute fight, is beyond not okahy

[serene tendon]

DoG, Ravager, PBG

[frosty trellis]

DoG isn't ram heavy unless you're playing infernum

[serene tendon]

Aureus to some extent

[frosty trellis]

Ravager phase 1 I can see but phase 2 no

PBG fair

Aureus no

Bc you just dash under him

[serene tendon]

It's the best way to avoid getting surrounded

[serene tendon]

fair

[atomic shell]

old duke can be dash heavy too tbh

[frosty trellis]

(Wait you get coil'd by DoG?)

[atomic shell]

but it depends on playstyle

[frosty trellis]

Ram heavy not dash heavy

But fair

OD can but I don't remember him being that ram heavy

[atomic shell]

yeah you can outrun him or play a close playstyle

[serene tendon]

I meant phase 1, but it's also nice for phase 2 just because it works on rock pillars for some reason

[frosty trellis]

Rock pillars have contact damage and hp values so it makes sense

[frosty trellis]

Close and OD does not work from my experience

I just run

[serene tendon]

Why would you ever get close to OD? You wanna be as far away as possible from that guy

[atomic shell]

I mean yeah I keep my distance

[frosty trellis]

E X A C T L Y

[atomic shell]

but I’ve seen nohits involve just kiting dashes

with dashes

I could never old duke’s dashes can be unpredictable af

[serene tendon]

I know it does from a coding sense, but it kinda breaks the point of the boss

[frosty trellis]

PBG, Duke and Fishron are the only actually ram heavy fights I can see
Ravager phase 1 being a bit on the ram heavier side I can see but after that not really

[atomic shell]

ravager phase 2 feels free when you have a dash?

just dash through it when it stomps

[frosty trellis]

DoG I ram bc I have Aegis and only for that reason. it isn't necessary and there are a fair few fights where I just don't end up ramming him at all

[serene tendon]

Any dash will do for that

not just rams

[frosty trellis]

Ram =/= Dash

[atomic shell]

idk I still ram through him a lot during that phase

[drowsy plank]

ravager 2 when i destroy the head first and then all you have to do is walk back and forth

[atomic shell]

wording was off but

sometimes through his hitbox

[frosty trellis]

TRUEEEE

[serene tendon]

Rock Pillars should just be solid barriers

that you can't walk or dash through, and won't damage you

[drowsy plank]

seriously the only hard part of ravi is the stupid arms and the missles

otherwise he's kinda free if you just make sure not to move too much

[frosty trellis]

Yeah

Th missles are ass

I'll say it

[serene tendon]

Except for when it snipes you from offscreen with the rock pillars. One reason to make them solid barriers

[drowsy plank]

no

just

just dont move so much

that's his whole thing

[serene tendon]

It's the most unintuitive gimmick in the mod

[atomic shell]

yeah that’s like the point of the boss

keep movement limited

honestly it’s a different approach compared to other bosses I can appreciate it

[serene tendon]

to the point nobody realizes it until someone tells them

[frosty trellis]

(I will say that a boss that forces you to limit your mobility is not fun or intuitive to fight)

[frosty trellis]

LITERALLY

[drowsy plank]

tbf the missiles and arms dont help it feel like ur supposed to be close to him but everything else works fine

[serene tendon]

Players shouldn't be punished with unavoidable damage for not knowing an unintuitive gimmick

[serene tendon]

Lets kill his arms

permanently

[frosty trellis]

All of ravagers shit just collide with each other and make it uninteresting and unreasonably difficult to dodge

[serene tendon]

Yeah

[frosty trellis]

It's a worse version of that problem which I have the same annoyance with in Leviana

[serene tendon]

It's like Fabsol decided to make a golem clone, then asked each dev for one thing to add, with no communication between said devs

[frosty trellis]

Levi and Anahita's attacks collide with each other a lot and both have two very different ways to dodge their attacks

Try and dodge anahita? get vommited on

Try and Dodge the vomit? Any leviana projectile spawns on top of you

[drowsy plank]

tbf i dont find it that hard, but you gotta really solo ana first lmfao

[frosty trellis]

Death mode

Makes that

A problem

[drowsy plank]

i play in death lol

[frosty trellis]

I am nohitting them in death

I have gotten sniped by the stupid vomit more than half of my failed attempts so far

[drowsy plank]

well you can't exactly expect it to be balanced around that
but yeah i can understand where you're coming from there

[frosty trellis]

It's not reasonable to dodge both at the same time

[drowsy plank]

the multi-boss fights in this game are no hollow knight that's for sure

lmao

[frosty trellis]

Getting levi vommited from offscreen in a split second while dodging anahita

[atomic shell]

I fucking hate the meteor vomit so much

“oh nothing’s happening I guess he’s lining up for a charge? oh that’s a rock i am dead”

[frosty trellis]

Literally

It's very fast and the targetting on it makes no sense

Can just come up at a 70 degree angle at three times your ms

[atomic shell]

if they reduced the size it would be more fair

but that is one fat meteor

[frosty trellis]

Yeah

It is just a clashy fight that I don't enjoy

[errant bobcat]

It’s kinda supposed to be a Goliath and tiny person battle so I’m perfectly fine with the meteors being massive, it would be nice to have some sort of indication that it is coming however. Some jet of water or some indication from anahita would be cool, as would maybe some sort of sound effect

[quasi wigeon]

for the "make hell more open one" that was posted in voting, the best thing to do is just to download fargo's mutant mod and do a bit of grinding to make an instabridge

[fossil finch]

[serene tendon]

What if Levi instead shot a bunch of gravity-affected streams of water instead? That way you don't get sniped and it makes more sense at the same time!

[drowsy plank]

bad solution, you could just actually address the issue instead of just using a patch mod, plus improving hell gen would just help overall with the game lmao

[quasi wigeon]

i mean i do kinda understand cause there is a lot of worldgen that you wouldn't want to get rid of but my point still stands

[swift wharf]

just use another mod

[quasi wigeon]

[frail mantle]

@heavy ledge no.

[heavy ledge]

?

Is it not a cool pic?

[quiet kernel]

Wtf am I looking at

[frail mantle]

Warned

[heavy ledge]

Bro fr

[blazing kettle]

was that what was in sugg posts?

[heavy ledge]

Yes

[blazing kettle]

ah

[versed lintel]

They aren't adding angry birds to calamity

[blazing kettle]

also we have a strict no memes policy

[versed lintel]

Well not no memes, no excessive memes

[inner anvil]

Dude WTF.

I'm not allowed anywhere!

[frail mantle]

Yep

I’m banning you right now

One second

[inner anvil]

A second has indeed passed since you said that.
And nothing happened.
Clearly I'm more powerful.

[frail mantle]

Sorry I can’t ban people in other servers they aren’t in and I don’t want to risk accidentally banning you here so I can’t continue the bit

[inner anvil]

You don't have the same power as Spider Prov.

[frail mantle]

i do because i lied

i can ban you in other servers on pc

[inner anvil]

Excuses.

🙄

[frail mantle]

if you say so

[drowsy plank]

😱

[inner anvil]

(He didn't do it).

[frail mantle]

you have no way to know

[inner anvil]

I wouldn't be able to type right now.

If I were to be banned, that is.

[frail mantle]

you could've been banned in another server you aren't in

you would never know

[inner anvil]

Unfortunately for you, I was never in that "Another server".

Spider Prov was more poweful, he did mute me, 3 times!

[cobalt pewter]

leon is shrimply too kind

[inner anvil]

Or too scared, both could be valid.

[small timber]

hmm I wonder how much vote this will actually get (clueless)

[cobalt pewter]

Inferno should be generally buffed as well because Tesla was cal's old bandaid to Inferno being garbage

idk how but surely

[small timber]

just make inferno apply a unique debuff (on top of what it currently give) for short duration that amplify fire debuff damage taken

surely nothing can go wrong

[glass arch]

ah

[cobalt pewter]

I think removing its hit delay would help making it at least usable

(Inferno has a delay before it detects an enemy inside the area and hits it)

[glass arch]

another thing to stack with hellfire treads

this can never go wrong

[cobalt pewter]

you can tell by comparing with Tesla against caster enemies with breakable projectiles

[small timber]

debuff is nerfed anyway (10x to 4x max) and you have to be somewhat melee for it to work (if you make it like 1 second duration only for the debuff)

[cobalt pewter]

Tesla will instantly kill them while Inferno will take a brief time

[small timber]

so I think should be fine?

[cobalt pewter]

actually I should sugg that I think

it'd be a quick bump in making Inferno at least usable and adds another reason to remove Tesla for good

...not now tho I'm exhausted

[swift wharf]

make it inflict hellfire

[small timber]

well vanilla said no

[cobalt pewter]

oh wait what

I didn't realize they buffed Inferno

still shit tho because of the atrocious hit delay

so it went from 14dps to 35dps

that's like +150%

(if the enemy ain't immune to either fire debuffs)

I think something can also be done with the fact that it refuses to deal even its innate DPS if the enemy is immune to On Fire / Hellfire

[glass arch]

good sugg but needs reasoning

[hollow ridge]

Cool sugg, i would be surprised if this wasn't either, already planned or gonna be accepted.
May need more reasoning

[quiet kernel]

Tmod just doesnt have support for them yet

The sprites are there iirc

[half imp]

yeah iirc that's the issue

[frosty trellis]

@polar eagle tMod doesn't support those yet and I believe there is already sprites made for when tMod does support the other health/mana styles

It is currently quite literally impossible to do so

[half imp]

it's not impossible

just impractical

It's possible to draw the new sprites over them but it's just not worth it

[swift wharf]

It does have support now iirc

prob should be added to frequently asked suggestions

[half imp]

Oh

[half sage]

I know preview had it a while back because mod of redemption's preview build had support for it, not sure if it's come to stable yet tho

[half imp]

This suggestion is a great one

anything that makes the game more stable and easier to fix when it inevitably messes up

is awesome

[swift wharf]

I don't think that's even possible

[half imp]

what?

there's a check for astral ore I don't see why it wouldn't be possible for others

at least auric, cryonic, perennial, etc

[swift wharf]

and idk like

mod conflict.....

[golden sonnet]

As a modder myself one of my main thoughts was "is this too much effort for something that isn't very frequent" but because vanilla/calamity already scans the entire surface above 0, and not only scans for a specific block, but also counts how many of that block there are, I don't think it would be hard to just change what it's scanning for, and it doesn't even need to count how much there is

Also, as mentioned in the post the luminite spawning is a calamity only issue, it isn't just for mod compatibility

[half imp]

yeah exodium specifically should have this at least

imo

[serene tendon]

@polar eagle Myra Terraria, a really cool youtuber, made resource packs for it herself, and, after several requests, made them public on the Terraria (NOT TModloader) steam workshop page

From what I hear it is currently impossible for mods to change them

[polar eagle]

ah ok

[polar eagle]

ok

[serene tendon]

You'll have to enable them manually for each point in progression, but that's just how resource packs work

Works for both fancy and bars

She made packs for both health and mana upgrades.

[frosty trellis]

Looks at the latest suggestion
I mean, Caltesthelpers exists and you can grab that off the nohit doc which is pinned in #help-advice-read-pins

Allows you to mark bosses as not dead

(Also the luminite planetoids thing not spawning is in fault of the inner planatoids being generated too close together or skybridges)

[drowsy plank]

for real what is the problem with fishing

cal gives plenty of methods of improving it and it basically exists as the failsafe

[golden sonnet]

I'm about to do another testing session now, but I tried extensive testing around 3 months ago, and it was inconsistent with the exact same seed used every time

[drowsy plank]

this feels like that old weird item cal used to have in its very first releases where it would spawn in ores upon use if your world didnt have any

[swift wharf]

cal had an abyss and crag spawner

and yeah that is true with fishing

shouldn't have mixed mods.....

[golden sonnet]

I have never mixed content mods, the Mech boss issue is just something I have seen reported a few times, and the planetoid issue is something I have experienced a bunch

[drowsy plank]

regardless i still dont see what the issue is with just fishing if it doesn't gen

[frosty trellis]

The fact that without external information that a lot of people wouldn't know to fish for that stuff

[drowsy plank]

well that's an issue with terraria communication then, not ore gen

[fluid tartan]

mor has it on stable

[drowsy plank]

it's just like the rav convo and how it's much easier to beat rav once you know he's supposed to be a close quarters fight, but the fight doesn't have much to communicate that

[golden sonnet]

some people dont like fishing, and its a lot more time consuming, you should not be forced to fish

[orchid briar]

Some people don't like mining, and it's a lot more time consuming, you should not be forced to mine

[golden sonnet]

you arent, you can fish

literally my point

[glacial iris]

Why not add the ore gen change though

Gives the player more options on how to progress, and mining is more intuitive than fishing

[glacial iris]

(Outside of devtime)

[drowsy plank]

well because ore... already generates?? it feels weird to run a check to regen ore every time a boss is killed if none exists

also it was today o'clock i learned that jungle grass is what generates chlorophyte

i really thought it was generated on WoF defeat lmao

[golden sonnet]

that already happens for both meteors

[drowsy plank]

well that's because meteors are, well, meteors and fall from the sky and such, they're considered an "event" and cal already lets multiple astral meteors fall anyway

normal ore gen just feels different, i mean it's not like you can just generate new altars after breaking them all in vanilla

[golden sonnet]

multiple can only fall if there isnt already a certain amount of ore

[drowsy plank]

i realize but i feel like these are more the exception than the rule

[golden sonnet]

It is not a feasable way to get more ore, you would literally need to mine every single peice of ore in the world in order for a boss to spawn the ore again

[drowsy plank]

im still just saying like... what is the point??

[golden sonnet]

the point of the suggesstion is not to add a way to get more ore, it is to make your world not fucked when moonlord decides to not spawn anything

[drowsy plank]

we just shouldn't have removed the exodium cluster recipe but that's future content and irrelevant

atm exodium can just be crafted, and luminite drops from ML directly

frankly id find it easier to just make the mechs drop their tier respective bars

not to mention it is VERY easy to completely remove the moon lord planetoids

so it would be a way to get more ore

lol

[golden sonnet]

with planetoids you can create a full set of armor, multiple accessories, and weapons, with just ML you get enough for one single piece of armor

[drowsy plank]

yeah it's a QoL thing just like how they plan to add cosmolite ore eventually

[golden sonnet]

the whole reason the planetoids exist is to make it less grindy, and when there is a serious issue with them spawning your response is "just grind"

[drowsy plank]

no the solution is just

fix the fucking spawn generation lmfao

this is just a bandaid and im pretty sure suggs like this have been denied before, and items that did this have literally been removed

[golden sonnet]

Plantera drops a key every single kill, WoF drops a demon heart every time until you use it, and ML drops a onion every time until you use it, there is a precedence for this

[drowsy plank]

that is not true

[golden sonnet]

no other boss mechanic I can think of only applies on the first attempt, regardless of success, they all heppen until their is a success

[drowsy plank]

i feel like that is the opposite bc as soon as you use the item it stops

[frosty trellis]

To do that, you also need to spread out the inner planatoids so there is fucking room'

[golden sonnet]

yes, so as soon as ore is successfully spawned, the next kill doesnt spawn ore, that is exactly my suggestion

[golden sonnet]

if this is indeed the issue, are the devs aware? and if so it should be added to the bugs list

[frosty trellis]

I've talked with stip about it before where having them spaced out better would help them generate

[swift wharf]

the latter two is because of inventory clutter

[golden sonnet]

they both stack, same with temple key, mechanical cart pieces, and other boss drops you only need one of

[swift wharf]

wait they stack now?

[golden sonnet]

I believe they always have? that or it isnt mentioned in the wiki history

[drowsy plank]

only cause of 1.4.4

or well

1.4 in general

i dont think they did originally

[golden sonnet]

Upon further testing it appears the exodium failure is indeed on a seed basis as mpgannihilator said, meaning additional attempts to spawn the planetoids will have no effect

As such I might just delete the suggestion, as it makes a niche suggestion even less helpful

[drowsy plank]

like i said, we've had suggs like this before, and while i get it, it'd be better to just fix the generation in the first place, and if it's bc of a mod conflict, well... it's just gonna keep conflicting lmao

[golden sonnet]

I searched for similar suggestions and could not find any (but there are over 2000 suggestion about ore) and it would still be a fairly easy to implement failsafe without many cons

[silver pike]

Im trying to make a custom biom in my world

called "wast land" just stone block

nothing

but stone

[frosty trellis]

Okay but like

Why here

Seems like a #calamity-mod-talk thing

[silver pike]

oh

[grim tusk]

an #other-mod-talk thing rather

[small timber]

fuck I really need to save the quote

[hollow shell]

does an NPC sell it

[small timber]

no I dont think so'

but it is extremely easy to get anyway with zerg potion + chaos candle + battle potion

[hollow shell]

this one?

[small timber]

(the other one about not playing the game) but yeah I will save both

too useful

[cobalt pewter]

I am sorta sure Pirate man sells it, but he's post Pirates event anyways lo

hold on

[[tgc:Pirate]]

[red storm]

https://terraria.wiki.gg/wiki/Pirate

[cobalt pewter]

oh he doesn't

awesome

[rich echo]

true and real

[hollow shell]

Of course not in vanilla

[rich echo]

if my terraria playthrough last more than 10 minutes i will not enjoy it

[small timber]

ok 1% is like, not low, at all

because it is not a single enemy, it is every enemy including slimes as long as in ocean

[rich echo]

putting a jungle biome next to the ocean makes it rly easy

[small timber]

they dont even have to artificially make the jungle-ocean biome, just throw a zerg potion and you probably get in 1 min

[rich echo]

oh yeah calamity has that

[cobalt pewter]

It's not really a pressing issue yea

meanwhile Frost Legion still being the single most forgettable vanilla content:

[rich echo]

thought you were talking about frost moon

[cobalt pewter]

see

[small timber]

frost legion is amazing at giving infinite snows for builders

[swift wharf]

the item is non consumable

what the fuck is this suggestion

[small timber]

I literally cant think of another use

[cobalt pewter]

I think cal can probably add bits to it while making it earlier in the game

[swift wharf]

it doesn't have another use

[cobalt pewter]

e.g. Snow Globe item being dropped by Deerclops

[hollow shell]

@frozen veldt convo for you

[cobalt pewter]

but eh, probably not a cal thing to do

[swift wharf]

cal should remove frost legion

[cobalt pewter]

besides cal doesn't have any events around post skelly

might as well

[small timber]

ok found it

[cobalt pewter]

that quote is isolated in its own folder on my phone

[swift wharf]

mf made it backup proof

[small timber]

I am surprise people havent ask for recipe for tattered cloth yet

because farming goblin scout is even more annoying because pre-HM + low spawn rate

[cobalt pewter]

I take it because it's actually simpler to just

break a ball and just continue doing your own thing until the event spawns on its own

people only need tinkerer anyways so they don't need to make a spawner

[blazing kettle]

pirate map is super easy to get though??? just sit at an ocean for a bit

[glass arch]

@past rune formatting

and that might just be the overall wrong chat

[past rune]

oh?

[glass arch]

the way it looks its just your everyday cmt post

i do know a sugg went through a while back to give provs attacks an outline but there hasnt been anything on it for a while

if you wanna do a suggestion it needs better reasoning than just the issue

[small timber]

I thought a providence visibility suggestion was recently passed

[glass arch]

yeah

(it was mine

[swift wharf]

society if all boss projectiles had outlines

[glass arch]

but that was like a month and a half ago at least

[small timber]

2 months is not like too early/too soon

I will say it is still within a short period

[past rune]

ah ok

[small timber]

(considering the current development cycle of waiting for 1.4.4)

[past rune]

yeah I just saw the mockup Rover posted back in december and the outline really does make a massive difference

[drowsy plank]

i love ding dong ditching

seriously tho like goblin invasion and pirate invasion have the same """problem""" of needing to grind by the ocean for a bit

both of them can spawn naturally anyway, the manual spawners are just if you want to go out of your way to do it

downright baffling suggestion

[crude geode]

Pirate invasion is even less grindy considering you have spawn rate enhancers at that point

[half imp]

and it drops from any enemy

[frosty trellis]

(Chaos Candles are post plantera, pirate is pre mech)

[grim tusk]

@frozen veldt elaborate a bit more, also maybe address how the grind can be made easier with luck or zerg potions as well as Calamity making it so you only need to get one

[grim tusk]

Maybe pirate after completing the event once but idk

Oh wait we got rid of npcs selling spawners

[frosty trellis]

(Pirate Map isn't consumable anyways)

[grim tusk]

Well at least you only have to grind the map once since its non consumable

[frosty trellis]

(And is a joke to farm)

[grim tusk]

[frosty trellis]

(Just zerg and it will show up in no time)

[versed lintel]

the cyborg sells the summon for the martian invasion and the sea king sells truffle worms

[grim tusk]

The former is because its a Cal unique item (it could be made into a craft tbh but iirc it was made into a shop item cuz people complained about not being able to get martians to spawn now we have the same issue with blood moons ) and the latter is unconsumable

Heck Prismatic Lacewings are also sold

[versed lintel]

ok

[frosty trellis]

@ashen warren #multiplayer-looking-to-play

[quiet kernel]

You cant post that into #suggestions-posting

Its meant for actual suggestions for the devs

[drowsy plank]

sounds like someone wants to get a flag on their account

[grim tusk]

Yea they spammed every channel save for vcs, balance thread, wiki and bugs forum

[grim tusk]

@frosty kindle

[glacial iris]

They also dmd scoopy a slur

[grim tusk]

#multiplayer-looking-to-play please stop spamming on other channels

[grim tusk]

Yea he’ll prob end up

Since its very late for the Americas maybe theres not as much activity on #multiplayer-looking-to-play but theres still a good amount

[swift wharf]

instant upgrades....

[cobalt pewter]

real

[small timber]

controversial suggestion no.N

[glass arch]

ok but

summoner is also high risk high reward, like true melee

plus you get pretty good range on whips

[small timber]

but where is the reward of the whips

[glass arch]

extra damage plus debuffs

[small timber]

currently calamity is (planning) to nerf whips with consideration of minions functioning on their own so whips is a very small reward

[glass arch]

because they dont intend for whip only runs

[small timber]

which is the point: it is nerfed to optional level

in vanilla summoner basically have to rely on whips to reach other class level (or even exceed) which means whips are actually high risk high reward

in calamity the boost you get is very small especially that they plan to make whips multiplicative which will heavily nerf a lot of early-mid whips which are when they are most powerful

so your best option is like, armor crunch debuff and ichor debuff? for the risk of basically putting yourself infront of the bosses

unless they completely change their plan and make whips much more valuable (by making it more relevant or even mandatory to the summoner's kit) then the reward will stay relatively small

[glass arch]

why would they ever make a certain type of weapon mandatory

thats just removing creativity from builds

[small timber]

to put it simply this is the rationale:

Vanilla = high risk high reward

• whips basically double the effectiveness of your summoner but you are required to be close range, it is a risk there but there is also a reward

Calamity

• whips are planned to be nerfed to make up like 10% of your DPS
• Minions dealing 90% of your dps, which is always available disregarding the range
• you put yourself in danger for 10% dps boost with no compensation of the defense loss compare to other classes

I know the whole defense is overpowered thing but this suggestion is focusing on the design of whips as a close range tool

[hollow shell]

I agree with xp's analysis (based on what questionable amount I know about summoner)

[bright crag]

It doesn't really constrast with Summoner's design

It's consolidated as a convenient glass cannon

So naturally, whips would trade safety for damage
That's what a glass cannon does

If anything, whips giving defensive bonuses would be counterintuitive

[bright crag]

Who said it would be 10%...?

It might be referring to raw whip damage
Because the intention is for whips to primarily improve minion DPS
Ultimately, using whips will definitely be a sizeable boost worth the risk

Specially considering how melee already has the high defense close range gimmick, I think we should keep whips as the close range glass cannon
There's nothing like it

[swift wharf]

devplanned

devratioed*

[bright crag]

I just expressed my opinion

[drowsy plank]

perhaps while xpc's idea doesnt really work as a blanket thing, but if whips do become more of a buff style weapon, i dont think it would be a bad idea for one of them to do something like this lol

sort of like the melee speed buffs durendall and snapthorn give you

[small timber]

from what I heard that will be the "intended range" of what tag damage does, of course it is future content + dev plans but the general idea from what I heard is that that will be the case

and the suggestion disregarded that and look at the current whips: they apply debuff and rely on flasks and their base damage, tag damage is straight up bugged and I think only summoner crit is working

it will be no.1 priority to get summoner whip tag working as soon as possible but since that didnt happen I have to purely evaluate from their current (bugged) performance

[swift wharf]

true and real

before reading the suggestion I was thinking of that

[small timber]

that is the one thing I never understand about is which part of summoner really is glass cannon, the fact that they have more damage or just because they have less defense

that is traditionally just from vanilla deciding that "summoner have less defense because easier dodging" but for now I dont really see how summoner is anymore glass cannon than say melee

[swift wharf]

me when thorium bard buffs

[drowsy plank]

regen buff whip

[small timber]

you can do glass cannon on every class, use +1 offensive accessory on melee and does it suddenly become a glass cannon? because that is just what summoner currently is: they use 1 more offensive slot than other class because minion slot

[glass arch]

its a combo of both

[drowsy plank]

just make nebula armor into a whip what could go wrong

[swift wharf]

you could say that summoner is not glass cannon because its dps lets you be really tanky

[small timber]

summoner was bad before whips was added, like outright bad, they had no defense and damage hence why calamity have to buff them that much

[swift wharf]

anyways I feel like setups should be glass cannon and not classes but that is just me😊

[small timber]

if that is the basis of summoner being a glass cannon class then I can only call that version of summoner "paper pistol"

[drowsy plank]

real

[small timber]

like, to me whether something is glass cannon entirely depend on the gear/setup used, not a class

[swift wharf]

designing a class to be glass cannon is kinda crunge

[small timber]

melee is not that tanky if you just run full offensive gear, your class is not really much tankier than summoner beside like +40 defense on auric tesla armor (less on other stages); while a summoner is ultra tanky if you build tank

[drowsy plank]

mage being a "glass cannon" class when i equip astral armor

[swift wharf]

3 defense helms.....

[small timber]

in this case because whips specifically forces you to play closer range (more close range than almost all classes other than true melee because projectile melee exist), so in my opinion it is perfectly justified for whips to give you some defense (I am not asking to buff them to melee tier); but ONLY IF YOU HIT WITH THE WHIPS, and for VERY LITTLE DURATION, aka: you must constantly hit with the whips to "prove that you are in melee range" to warrant the buff

otherwise make whips actually a high reward weapon, which is also an option but will require rebalancing summoner on all stage (if memes is willing to do it then I am fine too I guess, I don't like how the basis is still "summoner is glass cannon" but at least in that case there will be compensation in damage)

[grim tusk]

@small timber sorry bud but this technically qualifies as future content in my eyes (I might be wrong) as we have not added any whip at all. But the idea for a whip to give a defense buff is quite nice and will note it

[small timber]

the main basis of the suggestion (itself) is not related to future content yeah

[hollow shell]

Calamity is ported to 1.4 and therefore you can use whips while playing Calamity. We can edit vanilla whips.

[grim tusk]

Well that makes sense

Suggestion is free to go then

[half imp]

i think the bigger issue currently is most whips doing nearly nothing offensively

due to tag damage not working

at least, nothing to help minions

morning star, kaliedoscope are so strong because of the 5/10% dps boost they provide to minions

it's really a case of just needing tag effects to be fixed and/or rebalanced

imo

[serene tendon]

I agree

[serene tendon]

Only 10%?! That's ridiculously low! Is this for real?

[bright crag]

We haven't even touched that yet afaik

As it was mentioned, whips are currently bugged

And we'll fix them before adding our own

[serene tendon]

Ok

[bright crag]

But I think it would be more than that

10% is too little

Whips are supposed to be a sizeable bonus

[bright crag]

Both classes and setups have tendencies to a given playstyle
You can be a melee glass cannon or a summoner tank, because setups allow you to have such flexibility
But neither would be as extreme as a melee tank or a summoner glass cannon, because those classes are inherently inclined towards those aspects

[serene tendon]

Should be 50-50 between the total damage each adds, provided both are in use, in my opinion. Obviously the base damage of whips wouldn't make 50%, but it + tag would.

[half imp]

i wouldn't say 50-50

[bright crag]

I don't think it should be 50/50 because, in that case, minion-only is left incredibly weak

[half imp]

75-25 minion/whip at most

probably a bit less whip

[serene tendon]

That's... how it's supposed to be?

[bright crag]

Not really

[half imp]

so that non-whip active summoner can like

play the game

[serene tendon]

You're supposed to use them together

[half imp]

yea and you get bonuses

[bright crag]

Minions are the core of the class
Whips are support weapons

[half imp]

^\

[bright crag]

Minions should be viable on their own, albeit much weaker than with whips

[serene tendon]

If you're playing without them, you're purposefully challenging yourself

[half imp]

orr

you're using something like forbidden rogue set bonus

which actually is worse with whips

due to losing stealth damage

[serene tendon]

I've always seen it like this, and I think Re-Logic has too: Minions should be weak on their own, whips should be weak on their own, but, when put together, Summoner is as good as other classes.

[bright crag]

But that would leave both minions and whips extremely impractical
And making their combination simply "just as good" makes the class overall less attractive

[serene tendon]

Something like 30% summon damage, 30% whip damage, 40% summon tag, in terms of how much each contributes to DPS

Maybe that's exaggerated just a little

[bright crag]

In fact, summoner with whips should be slightly better damage-wise than other classes

[serene tendon]

Well then, 40% DPS for all 3, so that combined they reach 120% of other classes DPS

[bright crag]

And, in an ideal (imo) scenario, minion-only would be slightly worse damage-wise than other classes

Whips aren't the core of summoner, though
And you do have to pick one side, whips or minions, otherwise both will be very weak

[serene tendon]

By themselves, of course each will be weak. They're meant to be combined, not separated

If you must take a "side", you should take summon tag, in my opinion

[bright crag]

Yeah, but that would be excessively weak
And people should be allowed to ignore support weapons without being severely underpowered compared to other classes

[half imp]

^^

whips are actually not main dps for vanilla too

unless you use stuff like blade staff

[slow sand]

i think summoners could benefit from more support type stuff

like im in a thorium/calamity playthrough rn and our summoner is using bard stuff too to buff people and i think that would be cool to have in base or calamity

[half imp]

summoners need more active options for sure- forbidden armor and explosive traps have been a ton of fun for me but there's only a few bosses those are good on

[slow sand]

yeah

[serene tendon]

just make sentries actually good, problem solved

[half imp]

making sentries good is... complicated

[slow sand]

yeah a late game thing where you can combine sentries and minions would be cool

i think separating one makes people have to focus on minions or sentries

[half imp]

i would know as i'm making a mod expressley to make sentries viable in cal without making minions or both together busted

[slow sand]

oh thats sick

[serene tendon]

Whips are a LOT more major than, say, Golden Shower. I hope you aren't grouping whips up with little things like that

[half imp]

golden shower kinda does a ton

depending on weapon or boss

[serene tendon]

Interesting. How do you plan on doing that?

[gray nebula]

consider

[half imp]

splitting them into subclasses of Summon

[gray nebula]

summoner is a "summoner" class

[half imp]

minion summon dmg and sentry summon dmg

[gray nebula]

and whips are dangerous to use cuz of their close range

[slow sand]

i think my main issues with whips is

[slow sand]

this exactly

[gray nebula]

If you HAD to use whips to have the same damage as other classes like, damn

[slow sand]

take base terraria, stardust armour has the lowest defense of any other class armour

[gray nebula]

ur forcing the low defense class to keep beign super aggressive

[serene tendon]

I guess I was envisioning it used on Post-Golem bosses or something

[slow sand]

you cant really get in close to utilise whips without being careful

[gray nebula]

how vanilla does it is fine enough

minions can do well on their own, but if u want to go up close u get extra damage

[half imp]

yeah

and some minions benefit a ton from whips

(blade staff is optimal for so long with whip stacking)

[slow sand]

i think summoners would benefit more from a longer ranged weapon

[half imp]

but sanguine does not that much worse with minimal or no whipping

[bright crag]

^

[bright crag]

Considering Whips are an entire support subclass, I'd say it deserves to be more consistently great as support weapons

Comparing whips to debuff weapons and stationary spells is a mistake not only because they are not a formal subclass, but because their performance is just all over the place

[serene tendon]

Fair

[half imp]

the closest we have is like

golden shower and betsy's wrath

as a "subclass" of support

but that's only two debuffs/weapons

[bright crag]

As the MageGuy™️ I would like to revamp the stationary spells (like Nimbus Rod) one day
To make them more consistent and developed

[novel belfry]

As a Final Fantasy XIV Summoner main, I would like to make the Terraria Summoner's subclasses to be more diverse and epic

[fervent orbit]

as SomeRandomGuyThatDoesntKnowShit™️, i agree

wrath of the ancients would be cool to see improved on tho

[swift wharf]

• debuff weapons are p much classless

(the existence of golden gun is fucking silly

[bright crag]

Agreed

Golden Gun should die

[swift wharf]

byeah making whips mandatory is kinda crunge.........

[gilded scroll]

Golden Gun is pretty much pointless
Rogue, Melee, and Summoner have flasks
Ranged has the bullets and arrows
and mage?
Piss book

[half imp]

I use golden gun all the time

[swift wharf]

golden shower is classless.

so are totality breakers

and shit idr

at one point we evolved backwards and made golden gun

also flasks are kinda bruh too

[serene tendon]

Yes

[half imp]

totality breakers don't do anything besides oiled right

[swift wharf]

they're rogue weapon

s

that inflict oiled

[half imp]

yeah thought so

[swift wharf]

you can use it with other classes so

classless

[half imp]

now that oiled just does 25 dps

not worth tbh

[swift wharf]

ya

but still

[grim tusk]

Oiled when it used to be a x2 boost

[half imp]

it was pretty silly when slimed exists

Oiled + slimed + hellfire treads + cinnamon roll was just

[grim tusk]

Slimed being x5 unless the enemy resists fire where it just cancels it

[half imp]

quite something

it's 2x if they're already weak to fire too

[grim tusk]

It still shreds everything on tier (altho cinnamon roll is post-Golem, but just use fireball)

[glacial iris]

jacuzzi

[half imp]

good thing debuffs are gonna be a bit more balanced next patch

[grim tusk]

Next patch Totality breakers inflict Hellfire btw

Instead of on fire

[half imp]

when using hellfire treads with them that's technically a nerf

[fossil finch]

great news for the totality breaker fans

[half imp]

but a buff to them by themselves

[fossil finch]

(the whole 0 of them)

[grim tusk]

Aka me

[fossil finch]

ur a tester u dont count

its cheating

[half imp]

I was a fan of aflame totality breakers before oiled was made not broken

[grim tusk]

Fun fact: there was a time where worms on infernum didnt have immunities by mistake and that fucking anhilated em

Thankfully it never got to public versions

[royal tapir]

L opinion

[fossil finch]

no W opinion

[grim tusk]

L

[fossil finch]

me when i do not care about the rare quirky useless rogue weapon that does not contribute anything to the class in playstyle variety or conte

[swift wharf]

but it's classless

[turbid jackal]

Some can reach ur whole screen

Also if calamity adds whips they will be long range and probably off screen range

[glass arch]

doubt

[turbid jackal]

I think whips are also a core weapon

[glass arch]

incorrect

if whips were the core weapons youd never use anything else

[turbid jackal]

Ur supposed to use both though

[glass arch]

not even

[turbid jackal]

No one plays summoner without whips

[glass arch]

calamity is completely balanced without whips

[turbid jackal]

Yea

[glass arch]

so you arent supposed to use them

but they are useful

[turbid jackal]

The devs r using it as an excuse to be lazy and not add more ,even though they would take a lot of balancing

[glass arch]

no

[turbid jackal]

No what lol

[glass arch]

they aint using it as an excuse

just because you like them doesnt mean the devs have to add them right now

its coming eventually

[turbid jackal]

They should add them eventually

[glass arch]

yeah

thats what i said

[turbid jackal]

They’re weird if they never add whips

[glass arch]

i mean they already have added one

but its less of an addition and more of a rework

[bright crag]

Not as core as minions

Minions carry more of the summoner identity (commanding summoned creatures to deal damage to the enemy) than whips

The tag damage mechanic exists precisely because whips are support weapons, meant to complement minions

Not be used on their own

[glass arch]

it wouldnt be summoner without the summons

[bright crag]

Yeah, basically

[bright crag]

We will, eventually

[glass arch]

if it were just whips to begin with summoner would most likely just be a melee subclass

[bright crag]

We're not using it as an excuse :p

Whips are supposed to be used, but you can't demand that from players

[bright crag]

Says who...?
I mean, that would make sense for post-ML, but you can't expect whips to be generally longer than vanilla ones of same tier

[cobalt pewter]

clearly we should

[distant gyro]

diver is so based

[turbid jackal]

Yeah post ml

[crude geode]

so true

[gray nebula]

jesus christ i hope not

dreaded

[frozen hornet]

Making it's range be that long gets rid of the "get closer" part of "get closer to do more damage" which just gets rid of any risk with the playstyle

[drowsy plank]

they could get pretty long but off screen is just comical

1.4 obsdian armor type beat

[frozen hornet]

I'd love to see more yanmei style support weapons where you only have to apply it once in a while instead of needing to reapply it all the time

[grave zinc]

@half imp - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Remove the Summon Damage Penalty during the Old One's Army]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@small timber - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make Decapodita Sprout (Crabulon's Summon Item) Spawns Naturally In Glowing Mushroom Biome (similar to Gelatin Crystal for Queen Slime)]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[drowsy plank]

i love how sometimes the top 20% rules leads to things like this where only 2 suggs pass lmao

[half imp]

so true

[small timber]

I mean that week also only had like, 6 suggestions posted

it is the next batch that is gonna be a lot of suggestions

[drowsy plank]

fair

[deft yew]

You should pass, NOW!

[half imp]

so true

[novel belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/blm-gif-25815938

[blazing kettle]

this sounds like a bug

[frosty trellis]

Considering in my 950 hours I've never seen a cal healthbar for the pillars, no not rly

[blazing kettle]

oh the cal healthbar

i thought they meant the vanilla one

how tf would calamity make the healthbar work for pillars anyways

[sullen swan]

they made a hp bar for mimics they can make one for pillars

[half imp]

change "segments left" to "enemies left"

they support that for like, ravager and worms and whatnot