#suggestions-discussion
swift wharf
swift wharf
ok but how about living shards
cobalt pewter
"weapons have potential"
yes they do
but that's just most bad weapons 
bright crag
Still, this discussion was brought to the team yesterday (iirc) and no one wanted to delete Perennial
swift wharf
maybe we should bring back the removed weapons because they have potential
bright crag
"weapons have potential"
yes they do
but that's just most bad weapons <:XD:936...
Not really
Some bad weapons are iredeemable, because their quality/niche is already filled by a similar weapon
cobalt pewter
Stratus Sphere is the only one I'd remotely miss because it's pretty
cobalt pewter
Not really
Some bad weapons are iredeemable, because their quality/niche is alre...
that's why I said most, not all
swift wharf
Not really
Some bad weapons are iredeemable, because their quality/niche is alre...
dreaded terra flameburster
bright crag
In any case, Perennial is good
Its bad part can (and should imo) be reworked
cobalt pewter
but honestly though I feel like Cryonic is kinda
guh
swift wharf
cryonic is indeed gear set added by the calamity mod
small timber
oh it is venus
cobalt pewter
out of the 3 life alloy materials scoria is probably the only good one conceptually
small timber
I was wondering who dis new dev
cobalt pewter
I was wondering who dis new dev
lmao same
"who else did they shoot for this new dev"
bright crag
My suggestion, then, was to make Perennial a Chlorophyte upgrade bar and remove the ore
Then we would rework Perennial weapons
swift wharf
combined materials my hatred
cobalt pewter
My suggestion, then, was to make Perennial a Chlorophyte upgrade bar and remove ...
Shroomite does this
Spectre does this
I don't think it needs to be repeated.......
bright crag
Because admittedly we need to address Chlorophyte x Perennial
And because the world is already full of ores
small timber
to be honest I like the post-Plantera chlorophyte idea, just post-Plant upgrade bloat doesnt really help
cobalt pewter
if you really wanna do something like that, tie it to calclone
small timber
and having perennial literally just be chlorophyte + essence of sunlight and remove perennial ore/bar entirely
cobalt pewter
instead of another fucking post plant thing
swift wharf
will true excalibur being an instant upgrade be addressed
small timber
how do you tie a plant material to calclone when there is a jungle boss at the exact same tier
bright crag
^
swift wharf
carefully
swift wharf
the thing is like
bright crag
Perennial makes more sense to be post-Plant than the other Chlorophyte upgrade bars
swift wharf
we have too many jungle sets
cobalt pewter
why the hell would the game need 2 of the exact same bars
glass arch
could move some plantera stuff over to clone bc plant unlocks way to much
cobalt pewter
at least Uelibloom has kinda something to go with it
swift wharf
jungle
chlorophyte
perennial
uelibloom
bright crag
Perennial is Plantera bar essentially
small timber
too bad calamity can't just say "fuck it" and make moons post-Golem
fossil finch
I think the main problem here is hust chloro and perennial
cobalt pewter
Perennial is Plantera bar essentially
why.
fossil finch
They're unreasonably close to eachother
cobalt pewter
why is a plantera bar
needed
swift wharf
they are indeed
bright crag
We'll also look into Uelibloom
swift wharf
kill mech boss
get plant gear
kill plant
get plant gear 2
bright crag
why is a plantera bar
needed
¯_(ツ)_/¯
swift wharf
for the vine
bright crag
Maybe because Chlorophyte is a bit underwhelming
cobalt pewter
Uelibloom admittedly is a bit more forgiving conceptually as it's slightly different
jungle bloat still but that's not the main deal here
small timber
ueliblooom is also incredibly bloated yeah
swift wharf
you could just give more uses to chlorophyte......
fossil finch
Me resetting the universe so we can make calamity but without the bad parts
swift wharf
please do
bright crag
I don't quite know, you should ask the devs that actually added Perennial
small timber
almost all of its crafting relies on geode anyway
swift wharf
geode is funny
cobalt pewter
I don't quite know, you should ask the devs that actually added Perennial
who 
bright crag
I'm just trying to prevent a set with potential to die
And make something less goofy of it
cobalt pewter
geode is confusing
fossil finch
I'm not sure the devs that added present
And the ones i know may have added it that are aren't open for that type of discussion
small timber
if moons can be moved from plantera I think a lot of problem will be solved
cobalt pewter
why the hell does Uelibloom need a post prov material on every single recipe when it's already a post prov ore
like fart you know
bright crag
I don't know
But Uelibloom is more flexible because
Why the fuck does Providence generate a plant ore
Providence, of all bosses
fossil finch
It used to be pbg's
small timber
something something sun exploded
bright crag
Anyways, Uelibloom will be changed (iirc) and it's more flexible
cobalt pewter
something something sun exploded
in that case the world should be permanently at night once prov is defeated then 🤓
because there's no sun
hell the world should not have natural light in the first place
it probably already doesn't but eh
fossil finch
In a universe where modders aren't afraid we'd replace chloro with perennial entirely and everyone would be clapping
bright crag
As to Perennial, it's more tricky
But we'll try to make it more unique without getting rid of its identity and progression point
fossil finch
Except its identity and progression points are its main problems xd xd
fossil finch
Plant set just after plant set
small timber
instruction unclear moved chlorophyte to Hardmode pre-Boss instead
fossil finch
hell
bright crag
Except it's not that simple?
It can't be earlier on, because we already have a ton of metals in early HM and Chlorophyte is among them anyways
It can't be later, because it goes into Life Alloy which is specially the Calamity metal combo
fossil finch
then just merge it with chloro it is that easy
bright crag
And Plantera's death unlocking a plant metal just makes sense
bright crag
then just merge it with chloro it is that easy
What do you mean exactly
bright crag
Why would killing a meat wall make chlorophyte grow
Uelibloom is fossilized tree bark
Perennial, I think, is just Plantera's death stimulating plant growth
inner anvil
There's no lore, Chlorophyte is nothing at the moment, Perennial is nothing at the moment, and Uelibloom is probably something obscure. 
fossil finch
What do i mean?
Remove perenials redundant weapons, make chloro's weapons be like perennials or just rework them outright if wanted
Chloro armor, which is already sort of unused in favor of class specifics (i know its calamity buff made it more useful) is made like perennial instead
Chloro bar is either moved post plant or left where it is and used for life alloy
"But cross compat" you already rework much vanilla stuff this isn't that worrying for other mod's doings, all of chloro still exists by their vanilla ids, if any other mod changes something chloro it will not crash
bright crag
So you're saying
Delete Perennial completely and make Chlorophyte act as Perennial
fossil finch
Yes
swift wharf
anyways kill boss unlock metal is hella boring
fossil finch
Because Perennial has no reason to exist with chloro just there
Specially now that you guys know how to rework vanilla stuff without imploding
Also i agree with choomfie ecIipse metal behind boss most boring thing ever
Specially when it just
Appears
swift wharf
hive mind, wof, mech bosses, plantera, provi
maybe golem if you count scoria
but at least scoria is not just
spawn ore everywhere
ore slimes however 
swift wharf
you can get the ores in crates can we kill ore slimes pls pls plspls
bright crag
Life Alloy:
(Life Alloy wouldn't use Chlorophyte, the intention is to use only Cal HM bars iirc)
And Perennial having a bit more identity in terms of what it does than Chlorophyte
Chlorophyte is just spores and leaves, while Perennial uses both the unique armor sets and a toxic/spiky plant theme
Combined with flowers
swift wharf
theming bloat....
bright crag
ore slimes however <:ShitpostSelfawareness:847563527174357004>
Ore Slimes will be reworked eventually
inner anvil
Deleted you mean?
bright crag
Deleted is fine too
fossil finch
" The intention" the intention can be changed in a whim it is not set in stone and it doesn't matter anyway because the only reason life alloy exists is because it was made 4 years ago if it wasn't Calamity wouldn't have had life alloy anyway because the reason it exists is weird material bloat from before, you're just retroactively trying to make it fit which is fine i mean but i think its silly acting as if it has any super strong identity that's important to preserve
bright crag
But I think we can make Perennial unique
I'll see what the devs think, because we have a whole spectrum from
"Absolutely, let's rework it completely"
To
"Change as little as possible"
fossil finch
For the chloro thing you can, revolutionary, i know, give perennial's sprites to chloro stuff
small timber
I mean another option is to retheme it to abyss/calclone, like depth cell + chlorophyte
inner anvil
See, it's not that simple to "Lmao just delete Perennial and replace it with Chlorophyte" because we have many opinions in the team which can basically one completely different idea per person.
small timber
and slightly recolor perennial items to have a slight darker + green theme
bright crag
My insistence on reworking while sticking to the current theme is a way to please both sides of the argument
swift wharf
something something conservative party
bright crag
And I believe we can make it very unique without changing its identity completely
inner anvil
See, it's not that simple to "Lmao just delete Perennial and replace it with Chl...
All the ideas can be valid, but we as a team need to decide what to do with it, through, well, dialogue.
Lmao I'm not Socrates.
bright crag
^
swift wharf
tbf perennial is but a smidge in the black hole of material bloat
fossil finch
Ofc it is not simple!!!! I just think leaving perennial in place, stuck to the plant theme means you're never removing its base problems no matter how hard you try to make it "unique" which isn't what i want anyway i want it to not be bloating already bloated post plant
inner anvil
Ofc it is not simple!!!! I just think leaving perennial in place, stuck to the p...
The answer will arrive when we get to it.
bright crag
Then we reduce Perennial set and other non-Perennial things
fossil finch
even if you make it, say, not an ore anymore, and other stuff it's still gonna be essentially plant thing just after plant thing one
swift wharf
yeah you can rework it
bright crag
Simply make Perennial an incomplete set which benefits specific classes, weapon-wise
It already has universally useful armors
swift wharf
but it's still plant gear then plant gear
fossil finch
Except the metals are different
fossil finch
Instead of just plant and plant
bright crag
The plants would be different!
inner anvil
Anyway, this convo is not getting anywhere, I said the general reality, I'll go back to reworking stuff.
fossil finch
anyways going back
What are you debloating from post plan outside perennial, then
swift wharf
living sha
bright crag
You're assuming plants are less varied than metals, which is not the best way to think
fossil finch
Are you moving aureus or levi and ana? Are you removing terra stuff? Moons are untouchable simply for being vanilla
swift wharf
what about cores
bright crag
anyways going back
What are you debloating from post plan outside perennial, the...
I'd have to look through post-Plant content
But shrinking Perennial is a start
swift wharf
as much as it would be really good I don't think they want to remove terra gear
which is zad
bright crag
Shrinking Terra gear is possible but I dunno if the devs would like that
fossil finch
Blessing of the gods is fabsol losing the battle of preserving terra edge
bright crag
Because it kinda functions as a base for Terra > Elemental > Exo
bright crag
(Oh, really)
bright crag
I know, and personally I think we can shrink Terra
But it's something we have to consider and discuss
swift wharf
and then we can cut most of the elemental crafting recipes (again) but that is another can of worms
fossil finch
You can infact reduce the liners they're not set in stone either
"But their identity is being lin" maybe just give them their own identity they already have anyway instead of their sole purpose being liners
swift wharf
it would be so awesome if they just used luminite + 1 (one) weapon + lunar fragment of the class
bright crag
Because
- We're already having problems with using logical ingredients for Elemental and Exo stuff
- I dunno if the majority would agree to this
swift wharf
society if exo blade just used terratomere
fossil finch
Calamity already lost the battle to funny hoarding and ultra sets to souls so unless we want to stop taking ourselves seriously and run the souls we can leave hilarious trees aside in favor of debloat and quality
bright crag
Exactly
Which we are trying to do
But even with Terra currently full, we're having problems maintaining the line identity
swift wharf
my favorite terra item, cosmic bolter
swift wharf
you will die in a ditch
bright crag
Suggesting to remove a bit of Terra would be throwing a stone at a crumbling brick wall
fossil finch
Terra Items are relics of past ideas a lot of mods detached themselves from already (sse thorium)
quiet kernel
you will die in a ditch
I will come back from dead then
swift wharf
the crumbling berlin wall
bright crag
We can do that, but keep in mind it will really screw up things that are already screwed up
fossil finch
Suggesting to remove a bit of Terra would be throwing a stone at a crumbling bri...
What am i supposed to think this explains about the current dev enviroment
It did kill all terra gear
bright crag
It's not about the environment
swift wharf
based
idk like
we didnt care about removing other weapons so xd
like who the fuck will care about cosmic bolter
bright crag
I mean that Terra > Elemental > Exo is already screwed up
Removing Terra just makes it even more screwed up
bright crag
We'll clean the mess with time, but it will certainly get the train off the rails
swift wharf
i alraedy gave an ez solution to remove flameburster
bright crag
Yeah, we could kill them once the line situation is a bit more stable
And with more identity
Because keep in mind, we haven't even finished giving identity to one of those lines
Since the Terratomere rework isn't out yet
cobalt pewter
this is still going lo
but anyways the best solution is to make calamity 2 clearly
fossil finch
feed the point has been made
small timber
I mean the whole "abandon terra because thorium did so" or "terra is outdated" is just, kinda opinion based?
calamity did hardmode ore rework but I dont see thorium doing the same, should they do the same since calamity do it?
if it is established that the devs want terra > elemental > exo then I think the easiest solution is just double down (literally)
bright crag
...
fossil finch
It has been made too much
small timber
make terra even more of a thing instead of trying to minimize it as much as possible in that case
fossil finch
We should add od again then
cobalt pewter
It has been made too much
cope with another
fossil finch
It'd be so funny
swift wharf
it would
small timber
make terra have actual unique identity in its tier to justify its existence rather than trying to just remove all of them just because they are currently not unique is what I think will be the best solution
vanilla already does it with terrablade
swift wharf
making terra have its own identity would require to add a night variant for everything else
and a true night
and hallowed
and true hallowed
fossil finch
i just want calamity to stop holding onto stuff it doesn't really need to hold onto
small timber
they dont
because they are doing terra > elemetnal > exo not night > terra > elemental > exo
bright crag
For one, most classes do have a night variant
small timber
in fact they can just remove night version of everything but night edge and go from there
cobalt pewter
not rogue
bright crag
(Most)
swift wharf
terra disk recipe
frozen hornet
rogue's only terra weapon uses nych
cobalt pewter
ranged doesn't have one either I think?
cobalt pewter
rogue's only terra weapon uses nych
what
frozen hornet
Wait no
cobalt pewter
no
bright crag
Lunarian Bow
cobalt pewter
that's Equanimity
frozen hornet
it was stupid boomerang
cobalt pewter
terrible weapon tho so I don't blame ya
fossil finch
whatever the fuck lunarian bow is meant to be doesn't count.,.,
bright crag
In any case, it's very clear how messy the whole situation is
Hopefully we can solve, just
We can't do it all at once
So we'll see what can be done, what we should do, how it affects the rest
inner anvil
Nah bro, gotta' release Yharim next weekend.
bright crag
And implement the changes that please the majority
cobalt pewter
"changes that please the majority" is as clear as a foggy night
bright crag
I mean, what else should I say
I have to know everyone's opinions
fossil finch
that's hard to do isn't it
frozen hornet
I would prefer if the terra>elem>exo stuff gets kept since it's cute
bright crag
Can't implement something that nobody wants
frozen hornet
But also AotE throws a wrench into that
fossil finch
Calamity has over a million subscribers on the workshop
cobalt pewter
the average Calamity player is happy with additions and making shit pretty and will riot over removing literally an unused fart gun
fossil finch
This server has 160k people
Even less would be there to give opinions
It's not easy to please the majority when you can't even communicate with it
bright crag
Doesn't mean we shouldn't try to achieve a consensus...?
bright crag
Well, this is what we'll try to do
Reach a consensus
inner anvil
Bro! We'll get to it when we get to it, we're busy doing other stuff.
bright crag
So many problems MUST fix all at once grrr
small timber
to be honest
frozen hornet
what other stuff...
bright crag
(But unironically, we're aware of how many flaws this mod has)
small timber
the majority opinion is like, "soaring insignia should have infinite flight"
inner anvil
what other stuff...
I cannot say.
small timber
so yeah
fossil finch
Sorry stip you can't be phup
bright crag
Wdym?
fossil finch
phup's the one The Quote comes from
bright crag
Oh
frozen hornet
I cannot say.
Not even a smidge? Just a little twinge? A tiny speck?
inner anvil
I can tell you a little bit of what I'm doing right now.
bright crag
Anyways
I think the team will need to establish a progression chart later, fitting gear into progression slots in a satisfying, unique and reasonable way
Which would include the Perennial situation
Hopefully, removing 5-helmet armor sets in favor of more unique armors
Like early game currrently has
bright crag
Not even a smidge? Just a little twinge? A tiny speck?
I've been working a lot in concepts
Made a lot of them for the Sunken Sea rework, trying to fit everything nicely
I also made a worldgen structure waiting the next phase of development
Maybe you'll hear about it soon
Who knows
¯_(ツ)_/¯
frozen hornet
I assumed SS would be delayed by at least 2 decades
inner anvil
Nah.
swift wharf
"changes that please the majority" is as clear as a foggy night
im sure the community liked the removal of their favorite weapons
bright crag
I mean, concept-wise I provided the entire rework one or two weeks ago
But the ideas have to be further discussed, and we need to put in the effort to change stuff
There is some physical work on it already... which I can't show
frozen hornet
Does it include new HPU sprites....
fossil finch
Feels like a given
bright crag
Does it include new HPU sprites....
bright crag
Currently resprites
fossil finch
With him being a dev, previous artists gone and stuff, he's probably the best pixelartists i know the team has currently? I can't speak for a lot of them as heart's the only one ive seen works of really
bright crag
But I did provide ideas for new blocks
frozen hornet
Blocks only really need a resprite to be considered new tbf
inner anvil
With him being a dev, previous artists gone and stuff, he's probably the best pi...
He's not the only one.
frozen hornet
Does birdman do pixel art
inner anvil
No.
frozen hornet
j
frozen hornet
So there's nitro HPU and who else?
bright crag
Metarex
inner anvil
PokerFace.
bright crag
^
frozen hornet
Oh damn poker is a dev
bright crag
I'll try to make sure Sunken Sea content is engaging and decently spaced out
swift wharf
who is that
frozen hornet
The guy who made the giant sepulcher
swift wharf
i see
inner anvil
He also made the new Profaned Guardians.
swift wharf
and there is also ppl who submit stuff in asset subs
swift wharf
bright crag
He also made animations for [Hyperlink Blocked].
inner anvil
Oh yeah, [Redacted].
frozen hornet
ASS et subs died in a ditch
swift wharf
i wonder why
bright crag
By the way, what do you think of Sunken Sea content? How can it be improved?
inner anvil
When Nycro actually decides to move a finger asset subs will revive.
Because he's the one on charge to make a new method of submission.
😒
frozen hornet
More awesome booburn sounds
swift wharf
wait who was in charge of the channel before
inner anvil
When Nycro actually decides to move a finger asset subs will revive.
Because he'...
(Nycro if you're reading this, don't worry, you're awesome).
inner anvil
wait who was in charge of the channel before
Nobody.
frozen hornet
actually idk I can't think of anything for sea
bright crag
French SCal bot
inner anvil
French SCal bot.
frozen hornet
Probably just making it look more like seahorseman's ruined kingdom
swift wharf
is it dead because there arent anything to make sprites for or
becasue i acually do not know
inner anvil
is it dead because there arent anything to make sprites for or
It was chaotic.
bright crag
People did a small amount of tomfoolery during the 22 Incident
swift wharf
oh
that explains it
i thought that everyone decided to not submit anything anymore
bright crag
And we also need a better submission system in general
frozen hornet
Spirit mod ocean...
inner anvil
And now we're making a standarized method of submission, which will include a bot, which Nycro is supposed to make, but he hasn't done anything yet.
cobalt pewter
Nycro has the hand of God
swift wharf
use an AI for sprites
cobalt pewter
he decides the fate of aspiring calamity artists
bright crag
Well, in that case I'm happy
Because we have been planning that
One of the suggested new materials is kelp
swift wharf
minecraft in real
bright crag
Sunken Sea should, in general, be a rather colorful and awe-inspiring place
frozen hornet
will it still have mini-biomes
bright crag
will it still have mini-biomes
Yes
frozen hornet
Nice
fossil finch
First of all well, not being monochrome and actually diverse
It's not actually a sea but make it look like one i guess
swift wharf
5 seconds of well fed
fossil finch
Recreate rainworld ecosystem in sunken sea
swift wharf
😋
fossil finch
Imo
swift wharf
and will the desert above it be changed
small timber
giant underwater ruined sea kingdom/village but I guess it is too large scale unless planned?
frozen hornet
Slugcats in game
bright crag
The transition from the Desert to the Sunken Sea will I think
swift wharf
good
inner anvil
Anyway, Stip try not to spread misinformation (JK JK ) and troll them a little bit more.
I'm going back to reworking Belladonna.
bright crag
;)
swift wharf
because surely there should be more than cacti and antlions on where the ocean was
bright crag
Have fun
frozen hornet
Make it a giant made in apiss reference
bright crag
According to my plans
The Sunken Sea will be more open, in the sense that you won't need to dig much there
Ocean Crest will likely be nerfed
bright crag
And I made sure to distribute materials and drops throughout the biome
small timber
finally I dont have to dig navystone with shitty platinum pickaxe with no pickspeed
bright crag
Will you do the rainworld ecosystem
(I'll search what that is because I dunno what it is)
frozen hornet
I'd love it if SS has cute friendly babies while abyss has big scary enemies
fossil finch
Awesome
bright crag
I would love to do this
I'll discuss it with the others when we touch the matter of mobs
Mobs are the least discussed topic because it's a complex one
frozen hornet
Ye
bright crag
You need to figure out which ones will stay, which ones will get resprited, which ones will be replaced and with what, and where they would fit in the biome
frail mantle
Anyway, Stip try not to spread misinformation (JK JK <:HDfailure:482263678150770...
the first part is wrong, actively spread misinformation so people get confused
inner anvil
bright crag
My plans consider a lot a division of mobs according to sub-biomes
swift wharf
killerfish
bright crag
Mobs live in a few different sub-biomes and, while (of course) different mobs can be in the same sub-biome, every sub-biome has that unique feel to it mob-wise
Hope that wasn't a confusing explanation
But we'll see how everything goes
I'm pretty invested in the Sunken Sea, and I wanna make sure it's a great rework
inner anvil
Summoner.
small timber
@supple hare suggestion cannot suggest for content that are not yet in the game, aka yharim
supple hare
<@769522074125074453> suggestion cannot suggest for content that are not yet in ...
Oh... well then I hate my self
small timber
(yes declaring it is a future update do not help in this regard)
small timber
I do agree terminus should be harder to get, just yeah the suggestion was abit too specific in how to execute it
small timber
Depends
I think the suggestion just didnt have to mention giving it a new purpose
(And I think they kinda want it to stay as a boss rush activator?)
Just suggesting for a harder way to acquire terminus is enough in my opinion
fossil finch
Crying audibly
drowsy plank
small timber
Yeah I think the main problem is it is way too specific in execution
supple hare
Yeah I think the main problem is it is way too specific in execution
Let's just see what will happen if I post it
drowsy plank
me when i want terminus to be easier to obtain so players can have a boss checklist without boss checklist;
small timber
Things like "terminus shard" I guess is like, maybe potentially passable with a change of wording
But things like "crafting it at a draedon forge then merge it at a ceremonial urn" and so on are just too specific
fossil finch
Terminus doesn't need to have a purpose or be harder to get (if it was made harder to get it should be because of an abyss expansion as a whole that makes layers more present and this progression more important)
supple hare
Well lots of people ruin the speciality of the boss rush by spoiling it pre boss by just using icy diving gear, so this will stop it
small timber
And at the end they can always just, you know, make it so that defeating AEW is a mandatory requirement to get Terminus which will solve the problem that it is too easy to obtain by locking it behind the highest stat entity in the game (rather than going through many different things that will be very unintuitive unless the player go to wiki)
supple hare
And at the end they can always just, you know, make it so that defeating AEW is ...
Infurnum chad moment
small timber
Abyss are supposed to kill you if you enter lower layer without proper gear
fossil finch
I don't think theres anything being ruined
supple hare
That's the other option, but this would suffice currently
small timber
If you can go to the most bottom layer of the abyss with just arctic diving gear chances are your abyss os bugged
(the only way is amidias blessing if you nohit your way to it, and even then I remember you need shadow key)
fossil finch
no it's not
supple hare
Abyss are supposed to kill you if you enter lower layer without proper gear
Indeed, but icy diving gear let's you go down far enough to yoinkn terminus and tp home
fossil finch
Artic diving gear and just having luck is enough
As long as your abyss doesn't spawn with any time consuming blockages you should be able to avoid all enemies just fine
small timber
Doesnt abyss tier 3-4 will kill you in seconds?
supple hare
(the only way is amidias blessing if you nohit your way to it, and even then I r...
Post skele is when you can get it
fossil finch
no
supple hare
Doesnt abyss tier 3-4 will kill you in seconds?
If you combine arctic diving gear and pearl shard armor, you can go down there with gills potion for a lot of time
fossil finch
anyways adding termipebbles or whatever doesn't fix anything either because there's nothing to fix here
The problem of getting terminus early isn't getting terminus early is abyss layer system not really playing out as intended
There's nothing to ruin by using terminus earlier either because it's just a bossrush most people don't even do because of how long it is it's not some grand surprise
small timber
Oh fucking victide armor is not just a gill potion
But yeah if you activate Terminus that early chances are you will just die to King Slime
fossil finch
did they make it progression order already
small timber
Yes
swift wharf
getting terminus early is the actual reward
supple hare
Oh fucking victide armor is not just a gill potion
I said + gills
swift wharf
you waste more of your time getting it early
for something that you will do in the end game
fossil finch
ecIipse don't you love bloat and overcomplicated systems to fix non issues
swift wharf
there is no issue
supple hare
for something that you will do in the end game
Hence why you can build up excitement towards the event by collecting it all the way throughout the game
fossil finch
i love defense damage!!! I love dr formula!!!! I love rippers!!! I lov
small timber
I said + gills
No I mean at some point victide (I think) used to be just a gill potion effect so it doesnt stack so you cant dive that deep
But yeah
fossil finch
Excitement towards the event (20 minutes of boring slog of boss killing and then there's scal and yharon and exos and dog that actually matter and that's it)
supple hare
No I mean at some point victide (I think) used to be just a gill potion effect s...
Ah, well still it boosts breath time by alot
small timber
If Terminus is a bigger thing then sure
But boss rush is something 95% of player (roughly) dont want to bother with
supple hare
If Terminus is a bigger thing then sure
My old suggestion 💀
small timber
Because it is just a gigantic grindfest for no reward
fossil finch
Solution is removing bossrush and terminus just gives you the rock as xeroc and noxus foreshadowing
drowsy plank
i still like my idea of making terminus boss checklist but not so people have a way to find bosses without having to rely exclusively on external mods
bright crag
For one
Terminus is supposed to be completely optional and without rewards
It will eventually lead into the Xeroc superboss
When Xeroc gets added
But currently it is supposed to yield only the Rock, and the Rock shouldn't have any use at all
And, second
We have been considering ways to make Terminus harder to obtain
In our own ways
Which wouldn't involve collecting shards or crafting, at all
small timber
i still like my idea of making terminus boss checklist but not so people have a ...
Yeah something like having a list of every boss name that lights up if they are defeated, and Terminus/Boss Rush can only be activated once every boss is defeated to prevent spoiler
grim tusk
#suggestions-posting message Unsure if this one is ❗ due to how much it asks for
small timber
Wait adding a new reforge modifier is very difficult coding wise?
I thought it will be easy since Silent for Rogue was added so I just assumed it is easy
(I thought the link was referring to the drill suggestion since that one can be difficult but it linked to the reforge one, unless mobile moment)
swift wharf
i still like my idea of making terminus boss checklist but not so people have a ...
and have an accurate progression instead of the outdated one
supple hare
Sorry, I went to go get food. Sorry devs about that. I took it down. My idea's aren't so good now that I think about it...
drowsy plank
and have an accurate progression instead of the outdated one
real???
bright crag
That's alright, Wicked
Your worry is understandable
I assure you, it's something we'll keep in mind
bright crag
https://discord.com/channels/225030931008847874/699359022364491868/1060413217597...
Could you clarify this?
As in, why it's much
Is it hard to do? Because theoretically it is simple
Non-combat reforge(s)
swift wharf
if you can add rogue reforges you can add mining speed reforges
bright crag
Wait its simple?
Theoretically
I dunno how it is in code
But the premise itself is rather simple
rapid pivot
Has there ever been a suggestion about creating a sort of 'spelunking ultra-accessory' in the same sense that the supreme tackle bag is a 'fishing ultra-accessory'?
blazing kettle
probably
but i think 1.4.4 does that
yeah i think the hand of creation has the mining chisel and other stuff in it
rapid pivot
Ah. Shame. Thought there was a lot of potential there.
... actually, nah - the hand of creation is more of a building mega-accessory
rapid pivot
I forget - is there much of a spelunking mega-accessory, specifically?
cobalt pewter
not really
rapid pivot
hm. seems odd, tbh - especially as i'd put fishing and mining in about the same category, tedium-wise, and there are a lot of mining-specific things that could easily be combined in the same way as the SBTBFS combines a lot of fishing accessories
fossil finch
not exactly
outside of powder, calamity's own, and chisel, there aren't a lot of other mining supplements
i guess chaos amulet is there for acc perma-geo pot
rapid pivot
There's powder and the spelunker's amulet.
fossil finch
but that's 3 accs
rapid pivot
And the powder is a combination/upgraded accessory.
fossil finch
upgraded i think
i guess itd be fine
mining is just a different tedium
and much less tedious to begin with
blazing kettle
theres going to be loadouts to easily switch armor and accesories for mining
fossil finch
the part with most tedious mining (early game) has fossil and chisel
for the rest of the game uh
hollow shell
You can suggest that we add a super mining acc, I suppose
fossil finch
it's not really tedious to mine
hollow shell
I personally wouldn't agree with that suggestion though
(grown distasteful of super combining accs over time)
frosty trellis
Fair
fossil finch
But, rover
frosty trellis
(Maybe combine the vanilla mining stuff with the gizmo pack?)
rapid pivot
Yeah, in this case I'm thinking less about a cell phone-type super-accessory, which requires a lot of farming dozens of different mobs, and more something handy you can pick up to speed up an otherwise slow part of gameplay.
fossil finch
except,,, it is not that slow
cobalt pewter
combination accs are guh
fossil finch
and by the point you'd be able to make the combo acc (Let's say, anywhere post mechs) its at its lowest tedium for the rest of the game
early hm would need it the most i guess
and you can't really add it for early game
hollow shell
geez
Mining already become super trivial after ML, now it'll become even more trivial after WoF, throughout the entirety of Hardmode
rapid pivot
tbh, most things are kinda trivial after ML
hollow shell
Indeed and I can't wait till that's no longer the case
rapid pivot
and.. tbh, i wouldn't say it'd make mining trivial?
like, imo, what interrupts mining most often is dealing with monsters - that's a good thing
hollow shell
It'd make mining even easier than it is now
Keep in mind that you can currently still stack all of the stuff you're thinking as constituents to this proposed accessory, right now
rapid pivot
and that'd be in play hard in HM
You could, but if you did so in HM, you'd immediately die in one hit.
glass arch
well if you can get all those mining accessories (probably would be enough in there to make a regular pickaxe faster than a drill) then it makes you mine super fast if you stack em
rapid pivot
And the same could be said for the tackle box.
glass arch
well if you can get all those mining accessories (probably would be enough in th...
and hell thats not even considering buffs like mining potion or slice of cake
hollow shell
You could, but if you did so in HM, you'd immediately die in one hit.
And with your accessory, it'd allow people to have a full combat loadout, minus one accessory that has everything mining related inside of it
So that removes the one trade-off that there was
rapid pivot
what difficulty?
fossil finch
rev
rapid pivot
not necessarily the case in other difficulties
fossil finch
idk what youre doing some enemy is dealing 400 damage
glass arch
everything is balanced around rev
errant bobcat
Also dcu and onyx drill mounts exist, completely removing the need of any kind of accessory or mining loadout
frosty trellis
(Also I'm going to just say: From personal experience with several playthrough, even in Master-Death, mining at the start of hardmode for palladium/colbalt takes like 5 minutes tops, then just break altars for souls of night, farm the hallowed for a bit with a zerg or two for light, and then zerg ice/sky/crags for essences)
(That takes like an hour and then I have all the material I would need to go on with my life)
glass arch
so other difficulties are completely irrelevant due to all the balance being around rev
rapid pivot
fair enough
errant bobcat
so other difficulties are completely irrelevant due to all the balance being aro...
Malice be like 
fossil finch
1.4.4 kinda does destroy this discussion by adding loadouts
errant bobcat
1.4.4 kinda does destroy this discussion by adding loadouts
True
fossil finch
it does not matter anymore you can quickswap accs and armors in an instant
errant bobcat
But eh
fossil finch
it does not matter anymore you can quickswap accs and armors in an instant
props to the calamity tester team who i know are perfectly sane and will not try to balance this
🥰
rover i know you will read this you should give your thoughts agian,.,.
frosty trellis
(Also I'm going to just say: From personal experience with several playthrough, ...
Just using this to show that mining in early hardmode isn't an issue
Just chug a mining potion and maybe some plat armor for mining speed and go to town
The only times where mining for ores and stuff is semi painful is start of phm and hellstone
fossil finch
and hellstone because
glass arch
Malice be like <:KEKW:848613752545869844>
malice wasnt a great idea in the first place
fossil finch
lava
frosty trellis
Lava when you can break a few pots in hell to get an obi skin potion:
glass arch
overall its just early game that sucks to mine in
fossil finch
i love fabsol changes
glass arch
bc in early game you have next to no good accessories
frosty trellis
overall its just early game that sucks to mine in
Yes but like
That's the point
Early game isn't supposed to be a boss rush or easy time getting everything in 30 minutes
glass arch
yeah its not much different than anything else in early game
fossil finch
oh boy imagine if terraria was properly designed and systems of the game wouldnt become negated later on
it'd be so awesome if post ml and hm didnt destroy all sense of movement balance
frail mantle
imagine if terraria was good
frosty trellis
I am
frail mantle
ancient evil returned
frosty trellis
So confused
frosty trellis
Clearly this is something that was a thing from before I joined
frail mantle
it is
cobalt pewter
the skeleton appears
eternal escarp
but good sugg tbh iirc
fossil finch
if the sugg is so good
frosty trellis
I maybe know how to break calamity into 17 different pieces
But I know Jack shit about cal server lore
fossil finch
why dont you implement it
above messages are better if read with duke nukem's bit compressed voice
glass arch
i may know the best 1.5 mage loadouts but i have no idea what happens in the server
serene tendon
@small timber "Therefore alternative to making them benefit from mining speed, can also make Drills have a different benefit for example like mining multiple blocks at once (in a way similar to Gravedigger's shovel) can also be fine."
I had an idea where basically drills would break the block behind or below (depending on which way the player was mining) the original one. Something of note you should most likely mention is that there is a cap to how many blocks can be broken by the player in a tick. In vanilla this is really hard to reach, but with the plethora of mining speed items available, it can be reached quite easily, especially in the lategame. This means that even if drills would be affected by mining speed, they'd tie in terms of blocks broken per second, but picks would still come out on top due to increased range. Perhaps the mining behind ability could be given to post-ML drills?
rapid pivot
The format of
sugg
❓ (why)
was, at one point, kind of the standard for doing things? i think? i'unno, it's how I always did it
frail mantle
The format of
**sugg**
❓ (why)
was, at one point, kind of the standard for doi...
not really a standard
more just a thing some people did
serene tendon
What?
frail mantle
what did the user mean by this
cobalt pewter
but yeah I think drills can just be functionally different
fossil finch
byeah make drills multitile destroyers imo
fossil finch
that way they compensate for being actually slower than pickaxes due to not benefitting from mining speed
fossil finch
wulf drill could multitile only on dirt and stone or smt
so its not just size but availabity of blocks to multitile
serene tendon
That's a cool concept
Can we kill Onyx Excavator Key? It spits in the face of mining balance
fossil finch
lets see what the shrining brings forth i guess
frosty trellis
Wait yeah I was going to say
There is no shrine rework thing for the key unless I'm missing something
bright crag
I do like the idea of a super accessory for exploration
frosty trellis
Definitely fair
rotund tree
Wait yeah I was going to say
There is no shrine rework thing for the key unless ...
the cavern shrine ? it is getting changed
frosty trellis
I just don't remember seeing anything on said cavern shrine change
bright crag
frosty trellis
Ah icic
fossil finch
digger rework tie in please
drowsy plank
wow this latest suggestion is so good it's like it already passed!
serene tendon
Lol
rapid pivot
Ooooh. Sorry. I did search for 'miner accessory'.
didn't see it - should I take it down?
drowsy plank
nah leave it
even if it passes in voting and the devs approve it they still probably aren't gonna implement it considering mine is months old at this point
bright crag
Please do consider the amount of stuff we have to do
And how the latest months weren't the most peaceful
serene tendon
And how the latest months weren't the most peaceful
Yeah, I really feel bad for the team about that, it's just sad
serene tendon
Please do consider the amount of stuff we have to do
How close do you think the update is to done? Not asking for a date or anything, given that one would only stress out the team more, but can you tell whether it'll be closer to within the week or in a month?
stable kiln
the update is supposed to get released after tmodloader is ported to 1.4.4, which also doesnt yet have a release date as far as i know. after its released there will be a ton of things to be ported over
there is quite a while until it'll be released.
serene tendon
there is quite a while until it'll be released.
Ah, ok, just wanted to know if I should open my DoG treasure bag now, or wait for the 60% higher Cosmilite drops and the reduced costs
I guess I have my answer lol
swift wharf
o hell naw comparing mining to fishing
bright crag
We initially expected tMod 1.4.4 to have arrived by now, but apparently things have been going slow
There's no eta
swift wharf
mining is already piss easy
this sounds like
going from something nearly instant to something instant
crude geode
It’s a cal player what do you expect
swift wharf
TRUE
I am mainly upset about comparing mining to fishing
because what the fuck
one involves exploring your world and getting resources
the other is standing in one spot and waiting 30 minutes to get a reaver shark
i wish i had that gif of kazuma kiryu fighting air
drowsy plank
Please do consider the amount of stuff we have to do
yeah sorry, it was mostly a joke towards how backed up the sugg log was from what ive heard, and it'd been stuck in waiting for long before the dev thing. i totally get why it'd take forever to get added at this point tho.
drowsy plank
yeye
violet pivot
Dw
distant gyro
yeah sorry, it was mostly a joke towards how backed up the sugg log was from wha...
it's going up
completion rate is 39%
(150/388)
4 months ago for comparison
half imp
that's not terrible tbh
austere cargo
extrapolating that gives ~7-8 months. seems reasonable
drowsy plank
completion rate is 39%
nice
grave zincBOT
@muted cradle - Your suggestion has received an updated status!
[Decrease the auric ore amount in the auric bar recipe]
It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message
@hardy laurel - Your suggestion has received an updated status!
[Add and item to turn off Profaned Enemy spawns so the vanilla biome enemies will spawn.]
It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message
cobalt pewter
wait that's all?
small timber
I think is because of some of the suggestions being implemented which makes the suggestion to become even less
(and this batch dont really have large amount of suggestion anyway)
ashen warren
Based suggestion
frail mantle
@jagged jewel no
fossil finch
Suggestion Pranksters try to be funny challenge
glass arch
@jagged jewel randomizers exist
fossil finch
jokes are funny or something
This isn't
glass arch
plus why would i waste an accessory slot on that
quiet kernel
the bad ones aren't starred
True
fossil finch
we make sure of it
jagged jewel
Haha
jagged jewel
<@335965535168757773> randomizers exist
Not built in tho
glass arch
ok?
quiet kernel
Not built in tho
Ok and?
jagged jewel
I got tricked into making 30 iron buckets for some stupid item because I went off fandom wiki stats
Then the world had no more iron
glass arch
plus you dont have any reasoning in your sugg
jagged jewel
reasoning: funny
glass arch
ah so an invalid reason
jagged jewel
Lol no
quiet kernel
reasoning: funny
Reasoning: doesnt exist if the reason is funny
jagged jewel
Denny devito is literally in the game
glass arch
Lol no
read the pinned doc with the rules, reasoning such as "itd be funny" or "itd be cool" are invalid reasons
quiet kernel
Denny devito is literally in the game
Dev item
tidal plaza
This is the kind of suggestion that you should probably be adding as a patreon item
glass arch
yeah they closed those down a while ago
jagged jewel
so Danny devito can be in the game but not a homage to the bad fandom wiki which griefs 99% of players
tidal plaza
Oh rough lol
jagged jewel
tidal plaza
Then just add it yourself
frail mantle
the only ones still being added are for those who donated before item slots closed
quiet kernel
so Danny devito can be in the game but not a homage to the bad fandom wiki which...
Because its a dev item
jagged jewel
glass arch
so Danny devito can be in the game but not a homage to the bad fandom wiki which...
dedicated item
frail mantle
so Danny devito can be in the game but not a homage to the bad fandom wiki which...
yes because one is dedicated to a former dev and one is a suggestion by a normal user
glass arch
dedicated items dont necessarily follow the same rules as suggested items
tidal plaza
Learn how to code, make an add on for it, laugh at your own joke
jagged jewel
No
frail mantle
then live without your fandom wiki accessory
tidal plaza
Exactly
jagged jewel
I have 6 minutes left until I can complain about capped jousting damage
tidal plaza
Just ask someone in the fandom to code it for you, seems like they have plenty of free time
jagged jewel
They are too busy telling people to make 30 iron buckets to make armor
frail mantle
I have 6 minutes left until I can complain about capped jousting damage
if you can make actual coherent arguments in favor of uncapping it, sure
tidal plaza
If you feel for that, I'm not sure what to tell you
More than likely if something looks that off, willfully eating that onion isn't a valid complaint lol
Also buckets aren't that expensive, how did that bankrupt your world of iron
glass arch
this circles back to my original statement, just use a randomizer mod
tidal plaza
Fair
glass arch
garf before you say its not built in, why should calamity bother making something that has been made countless other times
jagged jewel
if you can make actual coherent arguments in favor of uncapping it, sure
I do actually think that the usefulness of uncapped jousting damage is only effective very briefly in the game unless you grind making some convoluted hoik or water elevator setup.
Not a competitive game anyways so there should be some broken funny mechanics allowed
elder prairie
Also buckets aren't that expensive, how did that bankrupt your world of iron
true, I'm on a medium world with like 700 iron bars in storage, and probably a bunch more ore lying around lol
swift wharf
is jousting lance even good without a railgun
jagged jewel
I truly think by the time you can get a momentum capacitor and a joust to sweat it's not even a super effective weapon lmao
swift wharf
i will count momentum capacitor as a railgun
is it a good weapon if your speed is not above 150mph
tidal plaza
true, I'm on a medium world with like 700 iron bars in storage, and probably a b...
The extractor as well
swift wharf
can you use it normally and is it good
jagged jewel
It's aight but it's not gonna smoke end game stuff
glass arch
i mean theres also wulfrum acrobatics pack & glorious end which would let you one shot exos
tidal plaza
Most things in end game don't really trivialize the bosses though
glass arch
3k mph would give enough of a boost to uncapped jousting lances to make them potentially more viable than shadowspec gear
jagged jewel
There should be some sweaty cheese allowed idk why it was intentionally removed on a non competitive game 
swift wharf
because balance
glass arch
its not some sweaty cheese
tidal plaza
Because it's designed to be difficult
swift wharf
it's a really easy to cheese
glass arch
literally anyone can do it
swift wharf
Because it's designed to be difficult
dign ding ding ding ding wrong
tidal plaza
The mod isn't supposed to offer a challenge?
swift wharf
kiiiiiinda but that is not relevant right now
glass arch
if you have a hook, wulfrum acrobatics pack, and glorious end, you could pull off that cheese quite easily
swift wharf
you can easily get 4 digits speed so the cap is necessary
and it's a post plant weapon
it's not supposed to be good after ML
tidal plaza
Making an argument that you should be able to one shot a boss and complaining that you can't is directly going against the grain of design
jagged jewel
the mod would still offer a challenge if you don't decide to bore giant holes in the map for a joust turbo cannon. You can't really accidentally make some sweat joust setup by accident
swift wharf
you dont need to dig your map
glass arch
you dont even need to bore giant holes
swift wharf
can you not read
swift wharf
not even that
glass arch
it would make it easier by using a hellevator but yeah its not required
jagged jewel
if you have a hook, wulfrum acrobatics pack, and glorious end, you could pull of...
You would have to do it on purpose tho it wouldnt ruin game balance unless you intentionally ruined it
glass arch
mate
glass arch
if people find a cheese it will spread like wildfire
jagged jewel
There is genuine usefulness for cheese in the game because not everyone wants to continue progression if a boss like old duke dabs on them 20 times
glass arch
people would cheese first attempt if they knew it was easy
tidal plaza
If that's your argument, then just use the butcher tool lol
swift wharf
or just disable rev
jagged jewel
people would cheese first attempt if they knew it was easy
It's their own game they should be able to do that
jagged jewel
Give a toggle on game setup that allows vanilla damage caps or some shit lol
swift wharf
anyways what if we just made it better
instead of stupid broken
jagged jewel
End game accessory allowing og uncapped joust 
Gimme my fun back
tidal plaza
Someone break the news to him that this isn't ever going to be taken seriously
glass arch
It's their own game they should be able to do that <:KEKW:706692821079425095>
there's a different between making something easier and just oneshotting it
and wether you like it or not the devs have control over balance
frail mantle
Someone break the news to him that this isn't ever going to be taken seriously
if they have genuine arguments in their suggestion it probably will
swift wharf
scarlet devil lets you oneshot most bosses use that idk
they could argue that the setup for it is very hard to do
but it is not
tidal plaza
if they have genuine arguments in their suggestion it probably will
Unlucky
frail mantle
might still be denied but at least they'll take it seriously
jagged jewel
The game wouldn't lose any balance it's just some dumb joust mechanic most people wouldn't even know what to do with
Def some entertaining shit that should stay in the game
frail mantle
i don't think it's an unreasonable suggestion in itself
swift wharf
i jsut think that the weapon should be actually usable outside of gimmicky shit
tidal plaza
I mean it has base but how often do niché/meme suggestions actually get put through? That's not rhetorical it's a real question
jagged jewel
Issa joust it's a meme weapon to start with
swift wharf
mayb ill jsut throw it in balance suggestions
jagged jewel
We could weaponize Danny devito
Pretty much just change skeleton summon sprites to Danny devito ones and add 400 damage a piece and call it a day lmao
swift wharf
balancing suggestion don't question mark?
jagged jewel
Huh
tidal plaza
Also isn't Omega Blue classless?
swift wharf
yea
tidal plaza
I mean. Having another true Summoner set would be nice considering upgrading from Stardust is barely necessary
drowsy plank
omega blue is classless glass canon armor, adding minion slots to it is Not A Good Idea methinks
it already has 2
jagged jewel
3 makes it actually useful tho
I think with summoner gear you can get a max of 7 ish slots with it which isn't enough for when you get it
If it was 8 you could have two moon fist plus pop off two extra minions with potions and a table which would be about right for that stage of the game
small timber
if anything it need the "less minion multiclass penalty" effect
rather than more minion slot
small timber
3 makes it actually useful tho
you are not supposed to use omega blue as a summoner gear
you use it with an actual weapon from another class (melee, ranger, mage, or spam rogue), of course it will not have literal summoner armor's stat
summoner's armor are intentionally tuned up because in normal scenario because of the minion damage penalty summons will make up like 90% of your damage
multiclass armor on the other hand expected you to use another class weapon together with summons, if you are already dealing near 100% damage with your main weapon of course the summon stat have to be weaker
drowsy plank
I think with summoner gear you can get a max of 7 ish slots with it which isn't ...
i feel like you're leaving out the fact it gives you +50% damage
also is moon fist even good...?? lmfao
rn all this suggs seems to be is "pls guys pls add more slots dont think about WHY it needs more slots here are reasons why more slots definetly will not break it smile :)"
jagged jewel
Moon fist is quite decent and you can get two of them with terra or whatever you just can't with omega
Keep in mind summoner also takes a massive damage handicap from lack of summoner specific weapons
frosty trellis
also is moon fist even good...?? lmfao
Yep
One of the better options for OD and DoG if you can get three of them
drowsy plank
Moon fist is quite decent and you can get two of them with terra or whatever you...
do u mean no whips because kaledioscope IS scal viable
jagged jewel
Most any decent weapon is giving summoner class a 50% damage handicap. So omega brings it back to regular damage
drowsy plank
like it isnt just on class setups til endgame bc its the only whip it is literally just that good
drowsy plank
Most any decent weapon is giving summoner class a 50% damage handicap. So omega ...
kaledioscope is a whip which deals summon damage...
you got some dumb sentries at that point too like
frosty trellis
Carrion
drowsy plank
you can manage
jagged jewel
trying to beat bosses with kaleidoscope is not super poggy
frosty trellis
(Don't need carrion or whips either for that matter)
(Summoner is balanced around just summons)
drowsy plank
trying to beat bosses with kaleidoscope is not super poggy <:KEKW:84861375254586...
actual skill issue
drowsy plank
(Summoner is balanced around just summons)
point im making is summoner doesnt need more buffs on the glass cannon armor as is
jagged jewel
I think my best whip rn doesnt even do 500 damage and my melee that I have that I have literally no boost on does 4000 a hit and is significantly faster
So summoner weapons literally are garbage tier end game
drowsy plank
i do not think you know how summoner works
small timber
whips are not supposed to work on post-ML boss
frosty trellis
^
small timber
as in, the fucking tag damage is not even working
frosty trellis
^^^^^^
small timber
I think only kaleidoscope's summon crit is still working because of a bug, but I am not 100% sure about it
frosty trellis
And you don't need whips to be able to kill stuff on kt or faster as summoner at any point in the game
jagged jewel
that's what I'm saying there is a lack of post moon lord stuff for summoner lmao
frosty trellis
It's literally just whips
small timber
post moon lord whips will be added eventually
jagged jewel
I need it reee
small timber
when they properly balance existing whip first
frosty trellis
And whips won't be implemented for a long time because whips are inherently an utter nightmare to balance
drowsy plank
me when summoner has the second most endgame items but actually no whips so bad
small timber
if you are craving whips there is like a mod that is like "unofficial calamity whip" or something, just install it
jagged jewel
me when summoner has the second most endgame items but actually no whips so bad
basically the case unironically
frosty trellis
if you are craving whips there is like a mod that is like "unofficial calamity w...
^^
small timber
for now calamity itself will not be adding new whips until everything is sorted out
jagged jewel
poggy summons but can't do any damage
frosty trellis
basically the case unironically
No you're just on crack
All endgame summons (minus atlas mutations beacon) are cracked
drowsy plank
Literally A Skill Issue
small timber
summoner is legit completely busted starting from like post-Golem
jagged jewel
yeah but you can't use any weapons and you need to basically no hit run the boss
small timber
probably even earlier but I dont play summoner too much
jagged jewel
like you need to be within minion smacking range but you also get one shot by the boss because it's faster and more agile than you and you have the worst defense
drowsy plank
fuckin just
use warding my guy
small timber
you can ask vanilla about that question of why they added whips
vanilla added whips, not calamity
jagged jewel
Lmao
Just give yoyos summoner boosts and call that shit done ez pz
Microwave go brrr
drowsy plank
edgy sundial
so what weapon do you use while your summons are going at it?
jagged jewel
Idk why the summoner handicap on damage even exists when the devs know that summoner has a massive lack of weapon options post moon lord
frosty trellis
All endgame summons (minus atlas mutations beacon) are cracked
Temporal Umbrella having dumb DPS and basically removes all of an enemies DR
Endo even after the bug fix does a lot
Metastasis is still strong and if it hits you, you get iframes which can save you (and you take no damage from it)
Flamsted Ring is, lose mobility for crazy damage
Vigilance birbs are crazy strong still
Universe Splitter is the ultimate nuke and can kill AEW in under 10 seconds
frosty trellis
Idk why the summoner handicap on damage even exists when the devs know that summ...
Because summoner doesn't need other weapons
jagged jewel
I like to use mage stuff because I can keep half distance from the boss so I don't get one shot
frosty trellis
Summoner is balanced around the minions themselves and nothing else
frosty trellis
I like to use mage stuff because I can keep half distance from the boss so I don...
Have you tried actually having defensive accessories?
small timber
summoner do not need an additional "weapon option" beyond the summon weapons
edgy sundial
I like to use mage stuff because I can keep half distance from the boss so I don...
well, if you're not holding a summoner weapon, you don't get to complain that summoner doesn't do good damage 🙃
frosty trellis
My pre SCal/Exos summoner build generally has around 200 defense so I don't even get 3 shot
small timber
whips are just cherry on top, they are just additional damage you can get that you absolutely do not have to get, summoners are literally not balanced around having whips right now
you can go in a fight only using your summoner weapon and you will be dealing the "intended" damage
frosty trellis
^^^^^^
jagged jewel
The summoner weapons that don't exist end game?
frosty trellis
????????
glass arch
does someone have the "this is why defense fucking sucks" meme
small timber
if you want to use whips and stay close to the boss it is your choice
drowsy plank
frosty trellis
does someone have the "this is why defense fucking sucks" meme
drowsy plank
me when "summon weapons sort by rarity" on wiki.gg and page is blank actually
there are simply no weapons
glass arch
thanks mpg
drowsy plank
fabsol ate them all
jagged jewel
Fr fr
glass arch
i mean whips in calamity do barely anything
jagged jewel
I beg for whips 
drowsy plank
im losing brain cells
small timber
you can still use your whips
but calamity will nerf them so that they are not mandatory
glass arch
the summon damage bonus is bugged so all whips do is focus the summons and add a touch of extra damage
small timber
deal with it
edgy sundial
so you're willingly subjecting yourself to the summon damage penalty, and crying about summoner needing more slots on omega blue because it doesn't deal enough damage? that's certainly a take
frosty trellis
(Whips are never mandatory)
glass arch
if you need extra damage classless weapons are right the fuck there
drowsy plank
my man is using a glass cannon armor set and wonders why he keeps dying in one hit
glass arch
omega blue is stupid overpowered
jagged jewel
Trying to beat a boss through just a summon and no whip is cancer since you are at such a massive damage handicap
small timber
I need to tag that 2 videos I had, need to assign a word for it so it is easier to search
glass arch
+15 AP seems just a little good
frosty trellis
Trying to beat a boss through just a summon and no whip is cancer since you are ...
??????????
Just
jagged jewel
Even a good summon combo still sucks because your lack of slots
drowsy plank
Trying to beat a boss through just a summon and no whip is cancer since you are ...
stop using omega blue and use an actual summon set and maybe you'll stop dying so much
frosty trellis
Even a good summon combo still sucks because your lack of slots
What are you
glass arch
or a classless weapon
edgy sundial
Trying to beat a boss through just a summon and no whip is cancer since you are ...
massive damage handicap
uses a mage weapon, cutting summon damage
glass arch
or a tool
jagged jewel
The no weapon run in the class without good stealth and low armor lul
glass arch
what
jagged jewel
massive damage handicap
uses a mage weapon, cutting summon damage
Preferable to using nothing tbh
frosty trellis
Summoner is by definition the frailest class
glass arch
yeah summoner is frail because you dont have to actively attack
inner anvil
Real summoner hours.
jagged jewel
Trying to run and evade stuff end game sucks because lots of bosses are literally just faster and more agile and there is nothing you can do about it
frosty trellis
But it's not like you can't make up for that by wearing the appropriate armor and having defense accessories
glass arch
just hold a summon weapon and dodge
frosty trellis
Trying to run and evade stuff end game sucks because lots of bosses are literall...
Okay that's just skill issue on your part
jagged jewel
But it's not like you can't make up for that by wearing the appropriate armor an...
Can't have defensive accessories you need those slots for summon boosts
glass arch
no you dont
frosty trellis
Can't have defensive accessories you need those slots for summon boosts
You're on crack
edgy sundial
so you're playing the frailest class, using a glass cannon armor, and are willing cutting your main damage source by 50%?
glass arch
not if you hold a summon weapon
drowsy plank
just stop using omega blue and use the actual summoner armor im fucking begging
glass arch
omega blue isnt necessary
edgy sundial
just stop using a non-summoner weapon lol
glass arch
just fucking use bloodflare
inner anvil
What is even happening here?
frosty trellis
Hold a summon weapon (can be the one you're using, just needs to be a summon weapon so you don't lose the penalty)
And then use 3 summon accessories, 3 defense/mobility and your wings, and you're fine
small timber
What is even happening here?
something something whip talk, but yeah
drowsy plank
garf wants more minion slots on omega blue and we're point out u do not need them
inner anvil
Oh yeah, I was planning on doing that.
drowsy plank
omega blue is already cracked
frosty trellis
What is even happening here?
Someone is complaining because they can't multiclass with summoner on omega blue that summoner and omega Blue needs buffs and that summoner without whips does no damage bc he is holding a mage weapon
drowsy plank
LOL
inner anvil
Someone is complaining because they can't multiclass with summoner on omega blue...
There's too many statements here, go slow, I'm like, not english.
Yes, I'm pulling the non-english speaker card.
edgy sundial
There's too many statements here, go slow, I'm like, not english.
-summoner with omega blue
-using mage weapon, invoking summoner nerf
-crying because frail and doing no damage
small timber
tldr is they are complaining that "whips cant be use on bosses because you die too quickly when being close" therefore "summoner do not have a summoner weapon (???) because you are not holding left click when playing summoner", and "summoner do not deal damage without whips or other hold left click weapon (?????)" and "summoner multiclass nerf is bullshit because this means summoner cannot use other class to help with damage"
jagged jewel
Summoner has a lack of actual fighting weapons and the summons themselves don't do enough damage to be equal to other shit plus mobile agility is not sweaty enough to kite bosses from close range
frosty trellis
There's too many statements here, go slow, I'm like, not english.
First point: Complaining about summoner not having enough slots because they hold a mage weapon so they deal no damage (since lack of whips post ml)
jagged jewel
Didn't calamity also nerf dodging which is what would actually be useful for summoner class