suggestions-discussion

[drowsy plank]

it isnt about it being strong in a vacuum, the same way avenger objectively sucks but hasnt been buffed

[serene tendon]

Well then, that sounds like we have a solution

[frosty trellis]

(That buff is beyond broken)

[drowsy plank]

stacking it with other sources makes it dumb

[swift wharf]

just kill Asgardian entirely

[rain jewel]

And people argue that avenger emblem shouldnt exist

[swift wharf]

stop at elysian

[sleek turret]

just buff ironskin?

[frosty trellis]

GOD NO

[swift wharf]

then what happens to prehm

[frosty trellis]

Phm is already a complete joke with full warding

[rain jewel]

Thats why they should buff it in progression, so its +8 armor pre hm

[frosty trellis]

Good luck dying like ever unless you're on Master-Death

[sleek turret]

oh yeah that's better

[fervent orbit]

honestly most of phm is a joke

[swift wharf]

or just don't buff ironskin because potion stacking is dumb

:blush;

[drowsy plank]

correct

[glass arch]

if ironskin gets similar defense scaling to warding (but not the same scaling formula) then its a lot more worth it to keep for longer

[serene tendon]

Sounds like a good idea

[rain jewel]

But its like the most useless potion

[frosty trellis]

Yeah after messing around with defense and abusing it ironskin is fine

[swift wharf]

and making potions even mandatory is dumber

mandatorier

mandalorian

[crude geode]

more mandatory

[rain jewel]

At least rework it

[drowsy plank]

it is not

have you LOOKED at the potions?

[crude geode]

tesla potion

[rain jewel]

Yes, I cant think of one more useless

[swift wharf]

when the potion isn't useful durong the entire fucking progression of the game

[rain jewel]

Its useless at all points lol

[swift wharf]

[fervent orbit]

phm

[sleek turret]

potions

[swift wharf]

i will strangle you

[frosty trellis]

Also just, why does this buff give 15% damage, 10% crit and 40 defense
In exchange for just use tracers and not wings

[glass arch]

ironskin does what it does fine but after pre hardmode its not worth it to keep because you get almost the same effect as the potion from one reforge

[rain jewel]

Ok then how about this, instead of making potions buff your stats, they all have a special effect, like feather fall

So they are all situational

[frosty trellis]

Featherfall when leviana (cheesed)

[crude geode]

I love terraria overhaul

[frosty trellis]

Although that sounds like a balancing nightmare to just rework every potion to have unique effects

[crude geode]

(Truly a "cal rework everything" moment)

[rain jewel]

Yeah

[sleek turret]

there should be a magnet in exo mechs fight and if you're using the ironskin potion you get pulled into the boss and die /s

[grim tusk]

@rain jewel we literally got that sugg just delivered

[rain jewel]

Ohhhh I know

[glass arch]

sounds like it would be another lore item situation

[rain jewel]

Hypnos

[swift wharf]

me trying to fix a terraria problem (there are 50 more behind it)

[crude geode]

truly

[sleek turret]

graaaaagh to many problems fix them now!!!!

[rain jewel]

How about iron skin gives you like 40 armor and reduces 30% move speed, like you are made of iron now

So many good ideas

[grim tusk]

How about not making alcohols 2

[fervent orbit]

endurance makes u a boulder, you just cant move

[rain jewel]

Yeah, thanks to me

[fervent orbit]

i see no opposition to my idea

therefore its the best idea

[crude geode]

alcohols when there's no downside

[glass arch]

but i want alcohol 2: electric boogaloo :(

[grim tusk]

For now

[rain jewel]

Your team forgot to deliver a high rated suggestion

[neat linden]

Ironskin makes you die (Having your skin turn into pure iron would be absolutely lethal to you tbh)

[rain jewel]

So nycro fixed it

[swift wharf]

just make the downsides exponential

[neat linden]

Best idea ever

[sleek turret]

Oh yeah having too much iron in your blood causes health issues

Same with alcohol

[rain jewel]

Tbh driking 50 potions should kill you due to water overdose

[swift wharf]

me turning the blood in your veins into nails

[glass arch]

yeah thats why the alcohol poisoning debuff exists

[sleek turret]

because it's actually implemented

[swift wharf]

fortunately there are only 44 slots

[neat linden]

i'd imagine drinking 50 potions would work like taking 50 different drugs at the same time

So like

You still die

[rain jewel]

Oh wait, theres a more useless potion than ironskin: thorns potion

[neat linden]

[swift wharf]

regeneration overdose

[grim tusk]

EoL cheese

[swift wharf]

i beg your pardon

[crude geode]

calcium potion sitting there like:

[grim tusk]

Why does she specifically get hit more times per second

[frosty trellis]

Odd

[swift wharf]

what is a calcium potion

[rain jewel]

Milk

[frosty trellis]

Oh shade, did you see me facetank bh4?

[grim tusk]

Good earlygame
Once you get horseshoe its useless

[grim tusk]

Yes

[sleek turret]

drinking too much calcium causes hypercalcemia!

(you die)

[frosty trellis]

I love defense

Bh5 isn't tankable sadly

[swift wharf]

dont they require bones tho

[grim tusk]

Good

[crude geode]

I mean once you get hook it's useless if you're skilled

[wintry sonnet]

extra character creation option: lactose intolerant
if you drink milk there will be a timer on screen to find a toilet

[frosty trellis]

Even with lionheart r.click and accessory swaps

[grim tusk]

Bone dust

[swift wharf]

oh

[rain jewel]

Technically characters stomach isnt sprited so you have no organs so you cant overdose

[frosty trellis]

Unless I bring out a revive

[crude geode]

used to be bones

was changed so it actually has a use (it's still useless)

[swift wharf]

we should kill potions and have an organ implant system instead

tbh

[grim tusk]

Kid named The Constant

[rain jewel]

Spelunker potion is made with gold, and gold cant be digested, so after drinking one and using a toilet it should give you 1 gold ore back

[sleek turret]

terraria overhaulest

[fervent orbit]

its ground up into dust or smthn

[frosty trellis]

Also Shade
Elysian Guard
Can we kill it?

It's very op

[crude geode]

what's elysian guard

[fervent orbit]

just make u slow down more

[frosty trellis]

Since tracers exist

[fervent orbit]

a very op buff

[crude geode]

should've put a /s

[fervent orbit]

it was like 10% crit and dmg and 40 def all jsut for -50% move speed

a

[frosty trellis]

Activate ability from Elsyian/Asgardian Aegis
Gives a buff that reduces your Ms by 50% but buffs your damage by 15%, crit by 10% and defense by 40

[rain jewel]

Just nerf everything, game is getting too easy. Honestly increase taxes too, life is too easy.

[crude geode]

elysian guard is used by like 10 players

[fervent orbit]

well there alot of idiots in this discord server

[crude geode]

that's true

[fervent orbit]

ye and those 10 players are the ones killing everything a minute faster

[frosty trellis]

Tracers + Swiftness potions basically just counteract the Ms loss so yeah

[neat linden]

I am a part of the 10 then

[rain jewel]

"Just"

[frosty trellis]

Same here

[neat linden]

I use the guard a lot

[frosty trellis]

I am using Elysian now and holy fuck is it broken.

[neat linden]

Well, used

[ornate kestrel]

Better idea, make infernum the base game difficulty in calamity

[frosty trellis]

Especially with c.tracers

[neat linden]

i don't play clam that much anymore

[crude geode]

same

[grim tusk]

[Infernum devs have been angered]

[ornate kestrel]

Uh oh

I've angered them

[crude geode]

beat every person who mentions making infernum a part of base cal

[frosty trellis]

@grim tusk ?
It's literally only not good for DoG and even then that's debatable

[neat linden]

life is too easy we need to nerf our immune systems to turn the it into hardcore mode

[ornate kestrel]

Nerf the heart

[fervent orbit]

swiftness + slice of cake invalidate elysian guards debuff (except for 5%)

[ornate kestrel]

Make it weak

[fervent orbit]

elysian guard is op

[inner anvil]

I recall that we have plans for it.

[frosty trellis]

Not to mention just tracers/angel Treds in general

[crude geode]

cal downsides when they don't exist

[fervent orbit]

treds

[neat linden]

turn elysian guard into a parry :trol

[frosty trellis]

GOD

[neat linden]

this would be funny tbh

[fervent orbit]

parry gives u a small buff if u do it succesfully
missing parry slows u down

[rain jewel]

The year is 2027, the calamity mod is perfectly balanced, all weapons have the same kill time against all bosses. @frosty trellis @fervent orbit lost their drive to keep testing stuff, so they decided to part ways. N00b became a math teacher and got married with 3 sons. MPG didnt take this well and became a drug addict.

[fervent orbit]

tf

i hate math

[neat linden]

why

[frosty trellis]

Wtf

[frail mantle]

strange comment

[fervent orbit]

i only do it for the funni calamity calculations

[frosty trellis]

First off: I'm asexual
And second off: Calamity? Balanced? Pfff yeah right

[neat linden]

so you like math in specific cases

isn't that like

[crude geode]

calamity will be balanced in 20000004*

[neat linden]

everyone

[rain jewel]

I meant you didnt take the mass balance well not n00b getting married lol

[frosty trellis]

Oh

Mb

[ornate kestrel]

And third of all do you think either of them will touch grass

[rain jewel]

Whats the fun if theres no weapon with a 22 second kill time on golem

[neat linden]

i like math if i choose to do math willingly

[frosty trellis]

Also I am not going to become a drug addict. I'll just break Thorium if cal gets balanced

[ornate kestrel]

Lol

[crude geode]

so true

[ornate kestrel]

If thorium gets balanced what theb

MoR?

[frosty trellis]

Mod of Redemption

Fargo's Souls

[ornate kestrel]

Knew it

Fargo's souls is the definition of broken

[crude geode]

fargo's souls and balance are words that should never be said in the same sentence

[frosty trellis]

[fervent orbit]

me when mythril adamantite wizard:

[rain jewel]

How was that mod called, the one that had ridiculous boss stats post moon lord

That has a dragon and a rabbit

[ornate kestrel]

Whut

[glass arch]

Ancients Awakened

[rain jewel]

Yeah ancients awakened

That thing sounds imbalanced

[frosty trellis]

Aight I'll break that once.it gets ported

[glass arch]

it is

[ornate kestrel]

Break SoA whenever that gets ported

[frosty trellis]

SoA?

[glass arch]

shadows of abbadon

[ornate kestrel]

Yeah

[frosty trellis]

Ohhhhhh

Fair

[ornate kestrel]

Though it might get a massive overhaul cause the creator doesn't like the current state of the mod

[rain jewel]

Ohhh AA has a mushroom biome frog boss. Rip off from calamity reee

[frosty trellis]

MPG the mod breaker

[ornate kestrel]

Yeah

[glass arch]

AA is so unbalanced the final boss (a worm lookin fuck) doesnt even have a right hitbox

[rain jewel]

Its a dragon

[glass arch]

yeah

but it looks like a worm boss

[rain jewel]

A super dragon wanting revenge or some shit

[frosty trellis]

So death destroyers map icon

[glass arch]

except its not a worm boss

[rain jewel]

Because its a chinese dragon

They are loooong

Man I always wanted to test more mods but I liked calamity too much

[glass arch]

imagine if you took a wyvern and made it one segment and let it do a 45° angle dash

[rain jewel]

The qol stuff is too good

[ornate kestrel]

I'm almost done with calamity for now

[fervent orbit]

jared?

[glass arch]

nah

[ornate kestrel]

I did infernum ranger and realized I was getting burnt out on calamity

[glass arch]

it doesnt have individual segments

[rain jewel]

And I dont play anymore because Im too busy drawing thicc catgirls

[glass arch]

its all one entity

[fervent orbit]

🤨

[frosty trellis]

Literally though
Ik I tried to play eternity but lack of new things that weren't accessories + lack of cal qol changed made it s bit more painful

And just less fun

[rain jewel]

Also I know what to do in calamity, unlike other mods that I need to relearn stuff

[frosty trellis]

If I want a content mod I want more modded weapons from said content mod not just like, 3 until post mutant

[fervent orbit]

emode summoner was pain

[glass arch]

i feel like eternity is balanced around a specific set of accessories and a specific weapon

[fervent orbit]

literally couldnt use most the accessories

god damn melee/ranger bias

[glass arch]

literally

[crude geode]

most mods do have a ranged/melee bias

we talk about melee bias here a lot but honestly it's a lot less than other mods

[fervent orbit]

also mythril adamantite wizard literally breaks all of hardmode

[glass arch]

when i did it (i played mage) i had like 2 weapons i could use post moon lord

[rain jewel]

What is mythril adamantite wizard

[fervent orbit]

an enchantment combo that trivializes everything

[rain jewel]

So calamity

[glass arch]

nah

clamity has more variety

[rain jewel]

Yeah but most people use the best

[glass arch]

wow i wonder why

[rain jewel]

Is ginisis still in the game? It was horrid

[glass arch]

yeah

genesis is still in

[rain jewel]

Fucking trash thing

Might be the worst weapon in calamity

[glass arch]

i mean at least its not traitorous biofusilade

[frosty trellis]

Slick Cane

Also Rogue slash is like, 5x worse than Genesis

I mean that literally

[neat linden]

It very much is

[rain jewel]

Okay but slick cane has a funny gimmick, I love that thing

[frosty trellis]

Genesis is probably 6ish minutes

[neat linden]

Rouge Slash is so shit that like

if you progression break and get it pre ml

[frosty trellis]

Rogue Slash is probably 2 irl days bc healer guardian

[neat linden]

it'll still be a bad choice

[rain jewel]

Is that the weapon that gives stealth?

[glass arch]

mage folly drop

[frosty trellis]

Rogue Slash is the mage tome dropped by dragonfolly

[neat linden]

Also it's rouge slash not rogue slash

[frosty trellis]

Calamity moment

[rain jewel]

Ahh, never used a folly drop in my life

[neat linden]

i had like 14-15 minutes i believe

[frosty trellis]

The only good folly drop rn is Golden Eagle

Which is actually pog

[neat linden]

with an aggressive type of fighting mind you

[frosty trellis]

Dear god

[neat linden]

proboscis fell off?

[rain jewel]

No proboscis is very good

[crude geode]

I love drops that have like. nothing to do with the boss

[neat linden]

I love proboscis

[frosty trellis]

Oh right that exists
Yeah it's still good if you go with true melee loadouts

[neat linden]

Not much special effects but damn it's strong

[rain jewel]

What about the swordsplosion

Is that good?

[frosty trellis]

Shattering Removal killed it

It's bad

[rain jewel]

I should have made a playthrough using only the worst on tier weapons

But after doing weaponless I dont see much point

[blazing kettle]

they made swordsplosion bad?

[frosty trellis]

Swordsplosion is bad because it was originally broken as hell when Shattering Potions still existed

[blazing kettle]

ah

[frosty trellis]

And then bc of it's many projectiles and shattering had 15 armor pen it no longer had that armor pen with shattering gone, so it's now horribly bad

[rain jewel]

Ohh I got a dumb challenge idea

Use a weapon of the same color as the boss you are fighting

[fervent orbit]

interesting challenge will do it sometime

[frosty trellis]

Wtf do you use on DoG?

[rain jewel]

Ig sticky grenades for king slime

[glass arch]

uhhh would genisis work

[rain jewel]

Uh dog is kinda grey?

[frosty trellis]

I've done 11:30 time bolt stealth on DoG
I'm good

[blazing kettle]

DoG is just a fat destroyer

[frosty trellis]

Def a lighter purple

[rain jewel]

Uhh

[glass arch]

the storm could work

[rain jewel]

Thats more dark blue

But ig

[glass arch]

not perfect but it looks similar

[frosty trellis]

Soul Edge

[rain jewel]

Idk if theres purple weapon

Ohh that thing

[frosty trellis]

So DoG is just free

[rain jewel]

Wait are there orange weapons pre yharon?

[blazing kettle]

just play one 1.0 cal

[rain jewel]

Mourningstar?

[neat linden]

Do it

[blazing kettle]

final dawn? or whatever the orange sythe is called

[rain jewel]

Post yharon

[frosty trellis]

EMPYREON KNIVES

[glass arch]

norfleet

[rain jewel]

Ohh norfleet, I used that

[glass arch]

not completely orange but its got a bit

[neat linden]

Eclipse's fall mayhaps?

[blazing kettle]

thought it was from upgraded pumpkin moon

[neat linden]

It's close

[rain jewel]

On my star shooter only

[frosty trellis]

Orange

I think

[neat linden]

It's orangeish

[glass arch]

dragoon drizzlefish

[rain jewel]

Oh that too

[rain jewel]

YES

Before the nerf

[glass arch]

continental greatbow

[blazing kettle]

clockwork greatbow?

[neat linden]

you know what

perfect yharon orange weapon

[blazing kettle]

im just randomly naming things at this poi t

[glass arch]

bladedge railbow maybe

[rain jewel]

Wait mech bosses are grey, ig we fish for titanium?

[neat linden]

if you do cinder blossom Yharon i will literally or .

[neat linden]

or black hawk remote

[glass arch]

yeah fish for titanium or use archerfish

[neat linden]

it's a bit gray

despite being well a black hawk

[rain jewel]

Oh no wait

Wtf for WoF

Its like red pinkish

[glass arch]

dragoon dirzzlefish?

[neat linden]

blood clot / flesh of infidelity

[rain jewel]

Ig that works a bit

[neat linden]

voting for the latter myself

fits more

[blazing kettle]

what about EoW?

[rain jewel]

Its just another shade of red

Musket

[drowsy plank]

this convo is fucking hilarious

[blazing kettle]

it has brown/grey on it?

eow i mean

[rain jewel]

Musket is greyish yes

And has a brown handle

[drowsy plank]

for WoF just use the crim variants of night weapons while they still exist since carnage already got moved to a wall drop anyway

[rain jewel]

For cryogen ig poseidon

Or ice rod lol

[blazing kettle]

empress is free right

[rain jewel]

Ice rod being used as a weapon finally

[drowsy plank]

just use frostbrand lmfao

[rain jewel]

Depends if empress is yellow or pink

[blazing kettle]

she has rainbow wings

and rainbow beams

[glass arch]

so anything but desaturated stuff

[rain jewel]

Are there yellow weapons?

It would make more sense to use rainbow gun for EoL

Rainbow is a color

[blazing kettle]

true

[glass arch]

ichor spear

kinda

[rain jewel]

What for golem

[blazing kettle]

dirt rid

rod

[frosty trellis]

Pink: Resurrection butterflies
Yellow: Ichlor Spear ig

[rain jewel]

Ohh I know

[drowsy plank]

piranha gun

[rain jewel]

Stake launcher for golem

I think?

[glass arch]

forbidden sun maybe

[rain jewel]

That needs scorie

[glass arch]

makes sense

[rain jewel]

Fallen's paladin hammer for scal ez

[frosty trellis]

Murasama:

[small timber]

Is defense overpowered? Yeah
But the consideration is now that they loss 15 from yharim stimulant + titan scale
Even if ironskin scale to 2 times (8 more) or even 3 times like warding (16 more) and only then it will be more: and there is a chance warding will be nerfed

Do I agree on it for having defense on a potion buff instead of gear? Yeah imo I dont like the idea, but it does make sense

and the whole defense = overpowered thing is not just "I can face tank" things, it is also the fact that taking more hit is just more room for mistake; currently defense is way too efficient with minimal investment to achieve basically 3-4x more survivability especially with warding (and various potion buffs though lossing some next patch helps) while to invest in damage every option is costly and leave you vulnerable

There is almost no scenario where you will ever want damage over defense (menacing vs warding or gearing in general) since the payoff different is way too large (I mean as in you gain little damage compare to high defense at same investment); unless you are way too good at the fight already then chances are you dont need damage or defense

[rain jewel]

What? Damage and crit are amazing, I doubt warding is better than that

Always

[small timber]

The tldr is if you can beat a fight with a highly damage focus build, chances are you will be literally invincible with a defense build

As in you cant die, because you play well enough that defense made sure you have enough room of mistake to not die

And you do not have to invest heavily on it, just slap on a sponge and 7 warding and you already get it (rampart too but rampart is overpowered argument is already brought up multiple times so)

Meanwhile to get damage you have to sacrifice a lot of other aspect of your gear especially defense and then there is a payoff but it is way more investment

[rain jewel]

Ehh I agree but not entirely

Like, I have lasted like 30 mins against leviathan with reaver armor

But that feels more like reaver armor being too good

At endgame, against exos and scal, its not like you can tank more than 4 hits in a row

[small timber]

That is the thing with defense: the more you stack the more absurd it gets because the more you stack the more things stop dealing damage to you

So you half commit to it it do not seem good, if you full commit suddenly it scales insanely

[rain jewel]

Well yes thats always been a thing in terraria

So you suggest some form of logaritmic scaling for defense, like dr?

[inner anvil]

Hmm, perhaps we should buff Defense Damage...

:clueless:

[small timber]

But yeah there is always argument from both side anyway so I will not force my opinion on you, but the tldr is just that warding is around 30-40% effectiveness (and much higher in preHM and HM) but menacing is ~20/16/14% effectiveness for having full menacing (and probbaly even lower because you have crit)

[rain jewel]

Make armor break after some hits and you have to repair it

[small timber]

It is not that damage is bad, it is just that the cost to invest damage currently is way higher than investing defense (becausr both DR and warding scales stupidly fast)

[inner anvil]

Now that I'm thinking about it, is it really a terrible idea? 🤔

[rain jewel]

Yes

Because the problem we are planting is tanking for long times, defense damage is punishing if you get chain hit, but if you can dodge and have nice tank then you are immortal

[small timber]

I think ozz said that there might be other consequences (like glass cannon/non defense build just got absolutely melted) so he dont want to touch defense damage (and just nerf warding instead maybe)

[inner anvil]

Could be true.

[rain jewel]

Cant you code certain attacks to ignore defense?

Not saying that should be a thing

Im curious

[inner anvil]

Kid named Providence's stars:

[rain jewel]

ahh anti healing

[bright crag]

Rest in peace Providence stars

You were cool

[inner anvil]

Wait, they don't do anti-healing anymore?

[bright crag]

Nope

[rain jewel]

No

[bright crag]

Regular damage

[small timber]

They do same damage as holy spear now

[inner anvil]

Wow, 2023 really starts badly.

[bright crag]

Which is understandable but lame

[crude geode]

it's been in the game for a while

[rain jewel]

I think that was changed in 2021 lol

[inner anvil]

(I know).

[inner anvil]

(I know).

[rain jewel]

😐

[bright crag]

Another understandable yet lame change was removing Yharon regen

[small timber]

Well at least now night providence's anti heal star is no longer her weakest attack so it is good

(no)

[rain jewel]

Blood pact was useful for provi 😭

[frosty trellis]

Just solar flare armor

That's not a joke

Solar Flare armor makes provi a joke

[crude geode]

can't wait for ravager to be moved, even if it takes years

[small timber]

Bloodpact when it losses multiplicative scaling so it is +500 HP instead of +1k

[bright crag]

As to defense
I think the way to go is nerfing defense escalation
On a balanced setup you have decent defense
But it will prevent you from being immortal by stacking defense

[frosty trellis]

Fair

[inner anvil]

Can't wait for the Blood Pact rework!

[rain jewel]

Yea thats what I said

[inner anvil]

I mean, what?

Anyway.

[rain jewel]

Can I be a dev now?

[crude geode]

softcaps!!!! I love softcaps

[small timber]

I think the main thing is just warding (way too effective) and rampart to be honest

[frosty trellis]

(Also kill iframe stuff bc they break so much and make defense damage less effective by design)

[rain jewel]

Just remove all accs except wings, more than enough

[frosty trellis]

LOL

Deific Amulet and Rampart iframes should have no more than like, 20 iframes
Celestial Tracers shouldn't have iframes

[crude geode]

this way ranged can't complain about not having accessories

[frosty trellis]

[inner anvil]

Celestial Tracers have I-Frames? This a certified hood classic.

[frosty trellis]

More mage but yeah

[frosty trellis]

30 iframes

C.Tracers + Rampart hits iframe cap

[inner anvil]

30? Wow, 2023 really starts badly.

[frosty trellis]

It only activates if you take 200 or more damage

[inner anvil]

So basically to any boss attack.

[frosty trellis]

But this is SCal/Exos gear

[frosty trellis]

Not any
It doesn't work on ks

[inner anvil]

You get my point.

[frosty trellis]

But yeah it's uhhh

[small timber]

The bad thing for stacking defense is that you might not take more than 200 to trigger tracer's iframe :clueless:

[frosty trellis]

C.tracers still lets you counter the ms loss from Elysian Guard

So it's fine

To get 40 more defense

[novel belfry]

if you're going to have that ability, add that to Drew's wings as well

[frosty trellis]

GOD NO

[rain jewel]

Thats why you hug gauss nuke for that extra iframes

[small timber]

True, but I prefer hugging exoplasma bolt instead for iframe dodge the nuke

[frosty trellis]

LOL

Or just fallgod bc Ares loses to fallgodding

[novel belfry]

where is storm weaver's "expert" drop

[crude geode]

wrong channel

but uh expert items don't (really) exist in cal tbfh

so not every boss needs an expert drop

[novel belfry]

i am well aware of that

when i say "expert" drop, i refer to an item that is notably 100% guaranteed to drop from the boss's bag

and signus does have his cloak thing, and ceaseless void has the evolution

and yknow, this isn't exactly the most needed suggestion

i just don't like inconsistencies

[inner anvil]

I agree with that.

I have no clue lmao!

[crude geode]

inconsistency suggs tend to be easy ones

so yeah that'd be a valid sugg to ask for a 100% drop on the weapons or something new

[novel belfry]

inb4 someone after the next major update posts a "where's the crimson counterpart to the nights edge" or something

[crude geode]

so true

[small timber]

"Make Storm Weaver have expert drop please"
"Ok fine"
"The Storm drop chance is increased to 100%"

[hollow shell]

One is/was planned actually, a new accessory
But you can still suggest it, I dunno what the state of that plan looks like right now

[drowsy plank]

was this pre or post dev massacre

[crude geode]

pre, considering it's rover saying it lol

[drowsy plank]

ok fair

[frosty trellis]

(To add onto the facetanking point)
I tend to just use facetanking as an extreme example of how to exploit the effectiveness of defense. If I can facetank through some of the strongest attacks, even with defense damage, then if I am just playing normally and dodging like I should be instead of facetanking everything, I'm taking less damage overall since I'm not getting chain hit as often for defense damage to be effective, and I can basically just make whatever mistakes I need or just not care about getting hit. I am literally invincible in a normal scenario

[glossy reef]

ok so like i remember being told that suggesting items that make you a glass cannon (like taking a defense penalty for, like, +35% damage or something) is discouraged, because it winds up just being a straight upgrade for nohitters

the problem is that i think glass cannon items are cool and interesting and make you think about risk vs reward in an interesting way. so, ive been personally trying to brainstorm an item that makes you fragile for high damage output, that ALSO isn't a straight upgrade for nohitters

and i think i have a half decent suggestion

[blazing kettle]

specific item suggestions in general are a no

[glossy reef]

what

oh

i forgot

god im such a moron sometimes i completely forgot

never mind then

[hollow shell]

You can suggest it as long as it isn't specific.

i.e. you can describe its role and why you want it
But don't say its exact stats or give it a name

Leave stuff open for the devs to execute it (and for the public to interpret it)

I was gonna say "I don't think we're in a dire need of more glass cannon equipment"
But, Reaper Tooth Necklace lost its damage taken boost a long time ago
And Void of Calamity lost its damage taken boost quite recently

The only one that comes to mind that is still in the mod is Dimensional Soul Artifact

[glass arch]

should there be a sugg to make the pillars themselves drop some meld blobs? if you have bad luck you might be waiting for them to drop for quite a while

[hollow shell]

Most glass cannon builds now get their defensive weakness more from a lack of anything defensive and not because anything they have directly impairs their defense

Oh right I forgot about Alcohols, those count actually
Life regen impairments from all of them, especially when combined

[hollow shell]

Have you experienced this in practice or is it purely theoretical

[glass arch]

last time i did the pillars i sat for about 5 minutes after i broke the shield on one so i could get meld blobs without having to go do another pillar

but usually i forget about meld blobs

[errant bobcat]

Or just make another pillar

But that probably won’t happen

[glass arch]

yeah most likely not

[errant bobcat]

Meld pillar would be cool tho

Maybe have the meld pillar always appear in the forsaken archive?

[glass arch]

alternatively increase the amount of meld blobs an enemy can drop

[errant bobcat]

Yes

[hollow shell]

guh

[errant bobcat]

Or make them craftable with the other frags

[hollow shell]

Okay but is that just because you wanted to get them all from one pillar?
Would you have gotten all the meld blobs you need if you did all of the pillars?

[glass arch]

yeah

[swift wharf]

just standardize meld blobs

[hollow shell]

Define "standardize"
What is non-standard about them in this context

[hollow shell]

Doesn't really seem like the amount needs to be increased then

[glass arch]

probably not

[swift wharf]

not dropped by astrum deus, even though it's considered a lunar fragment
crafts into a redundant item
is used in non-rogue gear, even though the armor set is rogue

[glass arch]

if it were counted as a fragment the pillars themselves would drop them

[swift wharf]

you could argue that is because there is no meld pillar byea

[hollow shell]

That first one is easily fixed
That second one could be fixed
That third one is unlikely to be 'fixed'

[swift wharf]

the can of empyrean worms

[hollow shell]

Obligatory that I mention we do/did have a plan for a more centralized Meld obtainment source however I have no idea what the status of that plan is now

I'll be saying this for a lot of things from here on out, won't I

[swift wharf]

[hollow shell]

You could suggest that Deus drop the blobs

Even if the devs don't agree on their equivalence to fragments,
rogue does get unfairly shafted from Deus as a result, being unable to use it as an obtainment/farming method for fragments like all the other classes can

Relevant past suggestions:

#suggestions-voting message

#suggestions-voting message

#suggestions-voting message

#suggestions-voting message
#suggestions-voting message
#suggestions-voting message

#suggestions-voting message

shit

There

... I may as well mention that defeating Astrum Deus causes Astral Crates to contain Meld Blobs, and not the Fragments
(leading to this suggestion #suggestions-voting message )

So, Deus does let you obtain Blobs in a way

[bright crag]

How would that make sense

[glass arch]

i think its supposed to be a joke but you never really know with this discord

[bright crag]

I agree with making Meld Blobs have a better source
But Forsaken Archive has nothing to do with it

[errant bobcat]

Tying meld to c void

Because they kinda have the same kinda black energy

[hollow shell]

that actually could work lore-wise with some of the ideas the devs have tossed around

[bright crag]

I do know of another dev idea that I think would work better

[frosty trellis]

I'm going to immediately stop you on that front because unless you have 4 (or 3 if everclear) the life regen impairments could not matter less as a regen potion + armor natural life regen sets off that entirely as I've found out from experience, having bloody mary + moscoles mule doesn't change my survivability but I'm killing shit at least 30 seconds faster

And bloody mary also reduces my defense

They are "techically" glass cannon but they don't have enough of a downside for them to be glass

[errant bobcat]

Instead they’re like an aluminum cannon instead of a steel cannon

[golden tulip]

cal amity

[rain jewel]

I would vote for it

[hollow shell]

How do I even

ask for more reasoning on a suggestion like this

[crude geode]

isn't one of the rewards on patreon custom names for npcs?

[golden tulip]

[crude geode]

or am I hallucinating and ben shapiro was just put in as a guide name for fun

[rain jewel]

This is true I think

But ben shapiro cuold be a meme

Like one of the names for arms dealer is like x19dfdsf3 which sounds more like an username

[frail mantle]

ben shapiro is a patreon name

as is sans undertale and good game design

[swift wharf]

Cal Amity Blight

From the hit cartoon

[crude geode]

@finite sparrow donate on patreon if you want a name in the mod

[hollow shell]

Yes this is true so it would be quite sus to implement one based on a community suggestion

[crude geode]

would open the door for other similar patreon rewards to just be. implemented on community sugg

[finite sparrow]

Cal Amity

[swift wharf]

[cobalt pewter]

mfw I'm paying 10 buckaroos for skipping the whole suggestions system

[crude geode]

it's so epic

[cobalt pewter]

just like real life

[rain jewel]

How long do I get banned for making a joke suggestion?

[cobalt pewter]

yes

[rugged belfry]

Don't make a joke suggestion

[finite sparrow]

boring 🤡

[frail mantle]

you're boring

[versed cape]

make the effects of fabsols vodka less ambiguous

"Boosts all damage stats by 8%" Is a very unclear message. Its effect is that its just +8% to the damage stat for any class, but could also mean that it boosts damage stats like crit chance, knockback, melee speed etc. A better description would simply be "boosts damage by 8%", like what nearly every other alcohol or accessory says

can someone else make this suggestion better and post it for me? thanks

[small timber]

I think what is needed here is "what are the other items that use 'stats' as an actual wording beside fabsol's vodka"

since I think they cleared a lot of these already (eg: Bloody Worm Scarf used to be 7% Melee Stats)

so now Fabsol's Vodka is like, the only thing that still use the word stats?
so in this case it is just boost the 'all damage' stat by 8%
and maybe rogue god slayer armor bonus

(and trust me unless the wording inconsistency in them are causing confusion, you will not want to suggest them 1 by 1 to fix the wording, because I wanted to do that before only to realise 70% of the items have weirdly inconsistent wording so I just gave up)

[versed cape]

I agree

can you add that information to the suggestion?

[small timber]

I mean I am not doing the suggestion

Main reason is because there are way too much wording inconsistency in the mod that you will literally spend weeks suggesting them 1 by 1

Fabsol's vodka is not the only case, so for me as long as it is not incredibly misleading or straight up is unclear personally I will probably not bother

[versed cape]

it is very unclear tho...

[drowsy plank]

not really

it does exactly what it said, but it really could just say "Boosts damage by 8%" lmfao

[small timber]

Or Increase damage by 8% (which is used by wrath potion)

[drowsy plank]

yeah

[small timber]

But yeah you will notice there are a lot of variation across different items:
"Boost damage stats"
"Increase damage stats"
"Increase damage by"
"Damage increase by"
"Damage boosted by"
"Increasing..." Or whatnot

So yeah, it will be a lot if you want to fix them altogether

[grave zinc]

@drowsy plank - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Remove Thorn Chakram from Terra Disk and Replace It With An Actual Rogue Weapon]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[swift wharf]

[grave zinc]

@sweet escarp - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[**Add Abyss Torch to the Torch God's Favor Biome Torch swap function **]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@drowsy plank - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Add A Combined Spawn Blocker Item]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@sweet escarp - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Remove boss lore items and re-implement text in another form]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@serene tendon - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make the Ironskin Potion's effects scale with progression]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[serene tendon]

Nice

[grave zinc]

@stable musk - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Guaranteed holy biome spawn]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[drowsy plank]

😎

two suggs passed bc im just that good ez

[grim tusk]

Maybe Fishbone boomerang?

[bright crag]

Isn't Fishbone already in it

[distant gyro]

no, cry

[grave zinc]

@drowsy plank - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Remove Thorn Chakram from Terra Disk and Replace It With An Actual Rogue Weapon]

It has officially been implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[drowsy plank]

oh cool

also fishbone is already in it lol

[drowsy plank]

nice

[grim tusk]

Brimblade works I guess

[swift wharf]

i just realized that

doesn't iron scale scaling count as a don't?

because scaling stuff is

[glass arch]

i dont think so

bc its pretty much the same situation as warding

[drowsy plank]

tbf warding scaling is also fucking awful rn

so frankly id say yes i think it would fall under that umbrella

but i dont think suggesting that vanilla items gain scaling should necessarily be disallowed bc a lot of vanilla stuff falls off hard

like arcane modifiers

the way the scaling rule is worded is a bit strange anyway

because its worded in a way that would fall under the SIS rule anyway

[glass arch]

well arcane is also a single level reforge

[swift wharf]

and community

so that's fair game for those

[glass arch]

the community is a bit special id say

[swift wharf]

but adding more is a no

did we forget about that when we discussed the suggestion or

[glass arch]

yeah

[swift wharf]

damn

[glass arch]

either way it went through to the devs

[swift wharf]

and btw arcane is not real

[glass arch]

yeah arcane is false

[grave zinc]

@serene tendon - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make the Ironskin Potion's effects scale with progression]

It has officially been implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[willow widget]

oh, nice

[glass arch]

lmao

[serene tendon]

Great!

[distant gyro]

defense scaling kinda gross

[glass arch]

"hey isnt [suggestion] technically against the rules?" "[suggestion] has been officially implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!"

[swift wharf]

[distant gyro]

subject to popular suggestion

[swift wharf]

removes yharim stims and titan scale potions

[hollow shell]

Could be done more naturally by adding unstackable ironskin upgrades but that requires sprites n stuff

[swift wharf]

makes ironskin scale with progression

truly

[distant gyro]

true

titan scale died for this

democracy is an illusion

[swift wharf]

we have removed potion stacking by making you just as strong with less stacking

[glass arch]

the scale in titan scale was repurposed into ironskin scaling

[swift wharf]

epic game design

[glass arch]

hmm should we ping mpg on this one

[swift wharf]

@frosty trellis

I heard you liked good balancing

[glass arch]

guess what happened

[willow widget]

god that image is horrible

[swift wharf]

good.

[frosty trellis]

Wtf happened?

[swift wharf]

i heard you liked defense

so we added more defense to your defense

[frosty trellis]

WHAT HAPPENED

WHAT

[swift wharf]

the irronskin scaling

the ironskin scaling is reallll

[frosty trellis]

MANNNNNNNNNNN

[distant gyro]

potions are never going to be not meta

[swift wharf]

time to account ironskin for all stages of the game now

😊

[distant gyro]

ö

[swift wharf]

or just nerf everything else

[frosty trellis]

God
Dammit

[swift wharf]

i mean tank setups will be tank setups

but offensive setups

[glass arch]

i take my defense, and then i put more defense on it, call that shit balanced

[swift wharf]

or maybe it will just go from 8 defense to 10

who knows

[distant gyro]

it goes up as much as warding does x2

[frosty trellis]

24?????

Oh god

[glass arch]

we heard you thought defense was a bit underpowered, so we made it stronger

[distant gyro]

8, 12 (HM), 16 (ML), 20 (DoG)

no other scaling spots

[frosty trellis]

I hate you

[glass arch]

good

[swift wharf]

i can finally use my balanced setups

with dsa and omega blue armor

thank you calamity devs

[distant gyro]

democracy has come to this

[swift wharf]

wheres the xpc image

[swift wharf]

winning rn

[glass arch]

there should have been no changes to accessories on the second one tbh

[serene tendon]

I've been wondering since the the defense conversation: Were you specifically talking about Post-DoG, since that's when the "Golden Trio" of defense accs become available?

[neat linden]

or swapped to like shackle

[sleek turret]

Shackle

(™)

[swift wharf]

🔥 🖊️

[frosty trellis]

I was facetanking post Yharon shit

But frankly it's even more ridiculous in phm if you go full warding (as you almost double your defense), hardmode you gains ton of defense from warding depending (since 6 slots and warding scaling) so you go from being like 6-7 shot to 11-13 shot, and then post moonlord until DoG the difference is also wild as you can live at least an extra 3 hits

And not to mention for post ML you have fucking deific Amulet so shorter potion cooldowns and extra iframes

[serene tendon]

Ah, ok. Maybe warding defense should go down to 2 in PHM?

[frosty trellis]

Like, even with half warding living polter for 6 minutes becomes so much easier

[frosty trellis]

Ozzatron is going to rebalance warding as xpc made a many page document about it already

[hollow shell]

I'm mainly wondering about how much speccing into Warding comes at a cost to your DPS

I'm not particularly convinced by arguments of "If you spec into Warding, you can take more hits before you die! This is unacceptable!"

[frosty trellis]

Post ml like, 13% max

DPS

From full menacing

Compared to like
84 defense and 7% Dr post Yharon

[serene tendon]

In theory, it makes fights long enough to make up for it, doesn't seem to be how that works in practice though

[frosty trellis]

Generally less

Bc you will have more than 100% damage from your accessories, armor and potions

[distant gyro]

depends on the class as well

you really have no upper edge going summoner

[serene tendon]

What if, here me out, Warding gives DR instead of defense?

[distant gyro]

summoner gets like 3x the damage bonus of other classes

[frosty trellis]

Summoner wants warding more than any other class

Since it has no defense and a shit ton of damage from it's armor sets alone

[distant gyro]

so menacing with summoner is tactically poor

[fervent orbit]

it also gets no crit (usually)

[distant gyro]

whip crits are in your head

[swift wharf]

lucky summoner

[frosty trellis]

Rogue wants crit if stealth, but if spam then the marginal damage you get doesn't outweigh the fact that it gets a good amount of defense from warding, being the middle class in terms of defense

[fervent orbit]

why would u ever put lucky as summoner?

stoopid

[frosty trellis]

Mage also wants crit for damage but it's also incredibly frail so warding has sooo much benefit

[sleek turret]

i've heard lucky gives armor penetration

[frosty trellis]

Ranger gets enough crit and damage from everything that damage or crit doesn't matter nearly as much (as well as weapons having naturally high crit)

[fervent orbit]

no.no.no.no

[frosty trellis]

And then melee, if you get warding it's invincibility time

[fervent orbit]

anything but unbalanced ap

either really good or just a nice extra dmg bonus

[sleek turret]

armor penetration

shoutouts to that thorium acc that gives 15 AP at the start of hm

[frosty trellis]

WHAT

[swift wharf]

armor pen scaling 🖋️

[fervent orbit]

thats literally 15 free damage

[swift wharf]

tbf the curve in thorium is lower

[sleek turret]

true

[frosty trellis]

Yes but 15 armor pen in cal is post polter....

[fervent orbit]

im just going to show thorium my uzi and beat everything

[swift wharf]

society....

[fervent orbit]

because everything has 0 defense at that point

[serene tendon]

Lol really? I guess that confirms my suspicions about Thorium's balancing

[swift wharf]

refer to

[frosty trellis]

Something tells me after I am done breaking cal I need to break Thorium

[sleek turret]

i mean they just ported it to 1.4 so

[hollow shell]

Should the defensive reforges come at a direct cost to your damage output, i.e. "+X defense, +Y% DR, -Z% damage"
Everybody creams their jeans over Kill Times, so having speccing into Warding make fights take significantly longer will feel like a more debilitating cost

The reason why you have to "spec" into reforges is because it's a choice, there's an opportunity cost to going one over the other, losing the benefits to the other
If we wanna nerf Warding the two options are to make it itself less effective or to increase the cost (not directly "opportunity" anymore with an inbuilt downside but still a cost nonetheless)

[sleek turret]

back to suggestion discussion

[swift wharf]

oh yeah true

[serene tendon]

Go on ahead, I'd like to see it

[fervent orbit]

that + stinger necklace + shark tooth necklace literally makes skeletron prime have 0 defense (unless they changed it) (while also not spinning)

[sleek turret]

Move on.

[fervent orbit]

ive alr broken thorium with the mention of one item

[serene tendon]

That would make an invincible 10 minute fight an invincible 20 min fight, if defense is as good as MPG says

Doesn't seem to fix anything

[glass arch]

most people dont want to spend 20 minutes on a single boss

[fervent orbit]

also have you guys ever heard of using evasion scarf for scal?

[serene tendon]

Seems like an interesting idea

[hollow shell]

The fix is that nobody wants to do it even if it is meta because it'd take fucking forever
You'd be dealing peanuts to the boss and the boss will be dealing peanuts to you

[fervent orbit]

its a good idea

[serene tendon]

That isn't balance

[hollow shell]

Mental balance.

[fervent orbit]

it mentally breaks u

[distant gyro]

[fervent orbit]

tbf mpg did a 1 hour exo fight so i dont think itll be that effective

[frosty trellis]

Warding should not reduce damage

That would De-incentivse anyone using or recommending the reforge as then fights take significantly more time, and doesn't fix the core issue of warding can just make you invincible if you don't just try and facetank everything

Nerfing the effectiveness of warding would still make it good and an option if you need to take extra hits, but shouldn't be a major source of your defense and DR. That should be up to your accessories

Nerf warding down to be viable and not just flat out broken, and if people need to take more hits they can sacrifice their offensive accessories, which makes the fight longer but you spec more into defense that way

[fervent orbit]

That would I

amazing speach mpg

[frosty trellis]

Phone moment

[distant gyro]

forced mechanic where if you take 1 damage from a hit you deal 0 damage for the duration following time of hit

:trollface

[swift wharf]

stunlock

[serene tendon]

oh no please no

[swift wharf]

determination breaker....

[frosty trellis]

So just curse but bypasses ankh

[distant gyro]

if you can't die they can't die, standoff

[swift wharf]

not relevant but give a revive to ankh charm for no reason other than it would be cool

[hollow shell]

"That would De-incentives anyone using or recommending the reforge"
Perfect! Problem solved
Your issue is how Warding is so blatantly overpowered, meaning it's an easy option for people to win the fight, right?
If nobody wants to use that option, because it comes at a cost of their time, then, the problem is ostensibly solved, right?

[serene tendon]

Didn't we conclude that most of the issue of defense was how much the golden trio gave?

[frosty trellis]

Then warding just becomes reverse alcohols

[distant gyro]

the problem with balancing defense in calamity always has been the player mindset going towards greeding damage

[frosty trellis]

Considering I don't even use one of them post Yharon, no

[serene tendon]

That's like Re-Logic balancing stuff with fishing

[swift wharf]

alcohol=bad
opposite of alcohol=good

[sleek turret]

meds

[distant gyro]

a mindset issue is fundamentally shit to brick

[hollow shell]

If a meta problem exists in a forest, and nobody is around to use it, then it is really a problem?

[distant gyro]

I remember when people thought the warding nerf was unreasonable

[fervent orbit]

ok time to tell everyone "just use warding"

[frosty trellis]

^

[swift wharf]

the average calamite only prefers damage

there is no issue

[distant gyro]

and there were claims that warding is dead forever after it got nerfed from 16 to 12

[sleek turret]

bad idea

[distant gyro]

evidently not

[swift wharf]

but it reduces damage, so it must be bad

[distant gyro]

but it changed people from going from choosing one modifier or the other and that's really the practical balance here I feel

warding has to be the better play for anyone to remotely aim for it

because by mindset players are gonna overdose damage

[hollow shell]

Considering Calamity's extensive history of encouraging and incentivizing no-hitting, I am extremely averse to attempts to take away this one time that defensive strength is finally preferable

[serene tendon]

I agree. A stale meta is a bad meta

[distant gyro]

I've never felt this even back in 2018 but I acknowledge the community side

[frosty trellis]

I mean there is also just the problem with it doesn't fix the core issue of it being overpowered by itself

Okay, nerf the damage you get from warding. If people are struggling, people tell them to get one more defensive accessory and go full warding

They are now suddenly invincible and probably in the next fight or so they win because they can overcome all the mistakes they make because they can just tank it with warding. Therefore, it saves possible hours/days of attempts for newer players or fighting stuff on higher difficulties, in which boss kts themselves don't matter, instead actual irl time spent is reduced dramatically and people can play and enjoy the fights more if they aren't dying constantly, even if the fight takes longer

[distant gyro]

and the community is god damn hungry for boss dies in 20 seconds over "you can't die. period"

if you really want to fix balance, you have to tackle the community

[swift wharf]

weapon gets a 5 damage nerf
"now that x is dead, is there something to use instead?"

[distant gyro]

this

the priority is always on finding the next boss melter

[swift wharf]

i hate it so fucking much

[distant gyro]

defense is an afterthought

[hollow shell]

(Are you actually capitulating the argument or is the majority of your response there sarcastic? Because that actually sounds like a good outcome to me)

[swift wharf]

this very suggestion shows it

people are not aware of how strong warding is

not warding

defense

if they were, this suggestion wouldn't exist

[frosty trellis]

How does that sound like a good outcome?

[serene tendon]

Yeah, people with that mindset always have cheat sheet and antisocial

[hollow shell]

"it saves possible hours/days of attempts for newer players"
"people can play and enjoy the fights more if they aren't dying constantly"

Part of your counterargument is that people can enjoy the fights more
What a nightmare!

[frosty trellis]

That's literally the thing is that you tell people to go more defense and then suddenly word gets out about how dumb broken it all is once enough people get recommended it, every boss becomes trivialized because you cannot die and then that takes away the fact that Calamity isn't supposed to be easy

[distant gyro]

is it though

[swift wharf]

nohitter mindset guh...................

[serene tendon]

The majority of the Calamity playerbase enjoys suffering (at least to my knowledge). Those who don't can just use cheat mods like Cheat Sheet and Antisocial.

[swift wharf]

if defense was actually not good, buffing ironskin would be valid

[glass arch]

there should always be an easy way out imo, but that easy way out should have a downside with, for example, a longer time taken on the boss

[hollow shell]

(that's pretty reductive isn't it)

[distant gyro]

I don't know if this parallels exactly but Celeste has an assist mode

[swift wharf]

thats just the majority of the terraria community wanting to stack all difficulties

[serene tendon]

I have never seen that word before lol

[frosty trellis]

Yeah but even if you nerf warding to reduce damage, if you aren't dying then you are taking less time on a boss anyways

[serene tendon]

reductive

[distant gyro]

for instance

[swift wharf]

i mean ultrakill has 2931912 accessibility options

[serene tendon]

is that even a word?

[frosty trellis]

And frankly an easy way out without having to get creative isn't exactly the best

[serene tendon]

wait nvm it is

[distant gyro]

most people will go through Celeste normally and some will mod the game for even more difficulty

but in the base game, the option for a "free mode" is there

[hollow shell]

As in, you're making significant overgeneralizations
You're saying "Anybody who doesn't like the intense difficulty just cheats anyway""

[swift wharf]

people using other mods is not our problem

[frosty trellis]

F.e. on the creative side would be using DSO, which for a lot of stuff does nothing and seems worthless, but if you find the right weapon you can see how it interacts and how good it actually is and can be

[swift wharf]

niche items...

[serene tendon]

I'm not saying all of those people do that, I'm saying that stuff is always there for people who don't like the difficulty level

[frosty trellis]

Creative ways to get an "easy way out" of a fight

Or make it easier

[swift wharf]

normal and journey mode exist

[serene tendon]

Many of them just play Thorium or something instead

[frosty trellis]

You have to go out of your way to find the interactions

[swift wharf]

why are we mentioning other mods

[distant gyro]

it's no longer creative if everyone finds out

also the issue

[swift wharf]

true

[glass arch]

yeah

[distant gyro]

meta spreading like shitfire

[frosty trellis]

Yeah fair

[swift wharf]

if everybody is super

no one is

[frosty trellis]

(I mean I'm keeping the ranger SCal meta to myself that was found recently since that seems like a bug anyways but yeah)
(And the traitorous shenanigsns I haven't recommend yet)

[serene tendon]

Just leave in the Explosive Bunny and Lance exploits

Like how Cal reverted the Reaver Shark nerf

[swift wharf]

is the bug that lets you spawn only one emech fixed

[frosty trellis]

(Okay yeah lances having the 1k cap is dumb considering a lot of things)

[frosty trellis]

Wdym

[hollow shell]

Yeah but that's fucking cheating
It doesn't really feel like "an option that's always there" when it's essentially a big external Give Up button

[swift wharf]

they don't know

good.

[distant gyro]

[swift wharf]

that is a different thing

linearity bad 🫰

[hollow shell]

Okay yes it is literally an option that's always there but it does not feel like a legitimate option is what I'm saying
It is illegitimate

[swift wharf]

🧀

[frosty trellis]

If you mean one shotting any one of the Mechs autowins the fight then yes, found that yesterday

[swift wharf]

no not that

there is away to make the other 2 mechs not spawn

but that was back in 1.3

[serene tendon]

It's not for the same reason, but it is an example of Cal unfixing Re-Logic's fixes

[swift wharf]

nerfing an item != removing linearity

but lance is a bit quirky i agree

[serene tendon]

I definitely do understand, I guess it was kind of unfair to tell people to resort to cheat mods, and insensitive considering I'm not one of those people. What about boss health configs?

[swift wharf]

I think that turning lance into an actual good item would be better than it being either a one shot kill or shit

but that is just me

[serene tendon]

That particular opinion of the community's is likely one I will never understand

[hollow shell]

At the present moment our boss health config can only be used to make fights harder / take longer
There is no way to go below 100% health

[serene tendon]

We could do both

[swift wharf]

in vanilla it is both

[hollow shell]

(That's a really silly config by the way)

[swift wharf]

by both I mean the latter two

[serene tendon]

Well, maybe being able to drop it below 100% is a good idea

[hollow shell]

("Are you dealing too much damage? Do you want to have a glass cannon build but not be able to feel the 'cannon'?")

[swift wharf]

i mean you could always just reduce the difficulty

[fossil finch]

we should remove fun out of the game

would fix most issues

like dog being bad for example

intended experience

[swift wharf]

but fun is subjective endlessvoid

[fossil finch]

fun is subjective when i send them to commit and be part of crimes of war, (it can be fun for some peop

[serene tendon]

Going below revengeance has surprisingly little effect on endgame bosses, and you don't get rage and adrenaline, arguably making it harder

If you're in death mode, yeah

[swift wharf]

journey mode

[frosty trellis]

Ehhhhhhhhhhh
Not the entire fight
Laser walls suck
Needs his full body in the map for phase 1

But it's not bad after that

[frosty trellis]

Just don't use rippers anyways
Game isn't balanced around them anyways

[serene tendon]

If you don't make the world in journey you can't do that

[swift wharf]

[fossil finch]

gamermod

xd

(thats a mirsario certified test mod that does Just That

[distant gyro]

journey default mode tbh

[serene tendon]

Not sure exactly what you mean

[frosty trellis]

Weapons and boss AI are not balanced around the existence of rage/adren

So they aren't needed regardless of difficulty (unless you're doing creative shock MDFTW but that's xpc)

[hollow shell]

(This is quite funny to me as well

You would think that the reason rippers are provided to you in a difficulty mode because of an intense increase in boss health / defensiveness coinciding with the mode
Thereby making it so you need to use the rippers in order to beat the bosses effectively in that higher mode, increasing the level of skill required

But... nope!
The health boost from Expert to Rev is minuscule, ~+10%, and very few bosses have a difference in defense/DR in Rev. It's just... "You deal more damage and they deal more damage")

[distant gyro]

20* but yeah

[fossil finch]

wouldnt it be funny if we removed the

[distant gyro]

the kill time way of balancing is basically like

bringing a set of planks to repair a ship but you don't know what the ship is made out of

[fervent orbit]

technically better than nothing, but most likely not the best solution

[distant gyro]

and then as it turns out the ship is made of steel so you end up trying your hardest to repair the ship with planks

and just end up rebuilding it ship of theseus style

[fossil finch]

balance through game sense instead tbh

"does it feel good and fun" yes/no, that's it

[hollow shell]

It's already been mentioned but the problem there is that fun isn't measurable

[crude geode]

Different people will enjoy different weapons

[distant gyro]

direction also isn't definite

if you tell people who thinks dog is shit what they'd like to change

a cumulative response would just go everywhere and no tangible feedback is achieved

clearly the solution is to have people vote on 20 random AI generated designs :clueless:

[swift wharf]

just dont accept boss criticism

[hollow shell]

There are like 3000 weapons in the game+mod and like 46 bosses in the game+mod (plus enemies and exploring)
Such intense numbers require systematic benchmarks in order for them to be balanced effectively otherwise the testers will be balancing for aeons

[fossil finch]

remove stuff

[hollow shell]

(Testing already can take ages because of how much stuff-)

Yes

[fossil finch]

and maybe uhh stop adding game-encompassing thing that requires testers to check almost everything of everything Again

[crude geode]

Bit too late for that

[fossil finch]

calamity testers heading towards their 89th Rogue rebalance (the stealth mechanic was changed again)

[distant gyro]

testers are also balancing on an inherently flawed point of balance which just collapses balance even more

[fossil finch]

its always too late to stop what has already happened but never too late to stop things from happening

[hollow shell]

It's almost like Calamity is

[fill in the blank]

[fossil finch]

oh boy what a blank to fill

[hollow shell]

(My first thought was "fucked")

[crude geode]

peepee

Unbalanced was mine

[distant gyro]

I would've said something along the lines of aged

[hollow shell]

aged is a good one

[crude geode]

Aged is good yeah

[distant gyro]

it wasn't bad

but additions are years overdue

[fossil finch]

i remember when all calbadders said before 1.5 was that post ml calamity was poorly balanced because of uh
Idk there were stats that were big

[distant gyro]

patreon items should reflect this pretty well I think

[hollow shell]

This is the result of trying to continuously append and upkeep a six year old project

[fossil finch]

cope creeping

[hollow shell]

goin on 7 years now

[fervent orbit]

calamity has become an old man lmao

[distant gyro]

people clown on patreon items but standards weren't very high in 2019

[fossil finch]

i think it is less upkeeping and more upkeeping without ever considering redoing the thing from the ground up for the sake of Actual, Not Too Complicated Long-Time Support

[distant gyro]

and these 2019 items get added in 2022

[hollow shell]

[fossil finch]

it is what other projects do, really

or so i'll let myself say

But it is what long-term projects would do if they weren't born as a long term project

[hollow shell]

At some point most looong projects reach a point of "Okay we need to start fresh, working with this amalgamation of old and new shit is a nightmare"

This applies to basically all fields

[fossil finch]

Technically the reason every version of Minecraft but java because of its importance in the community got the Bedrock treatment
easier to support long term which We Have To Do Now

[distant gyro]

Terraria somehow defies this

[crude geode]

It really does

[swift wharf]

jenga

[distant gyro]

achieving beam sword and night's edge in roughly the same progression

[fossil finch]

Id say terraria doesn't actually defy it

[hollow shell]

Can you imagine if the same modding API was used since the beginning and continuously updated for each version
If we were still using tConfig, if the original Avalon was still around, working with code that's been around since Terraria 1.1, working with bosses that were conceptualized in 1.1??

[distant gyro]

it doesn't really

or rather it's not being super ambitious with upkeeping and neither is the community

[crude geode]

It just tries to

[hollow shell]

And on the flipside, can you imagine if tModLoader decided that it just wasn't going to update to 1.4, that they said "Someone else is gonna have to make a 1.4 modding API, we're just going to be for 1.3"
Imagine, all mods needing to start anew

[fossil finch]

Yeah it is not being as ambitious with upkeeing as other stuff is

[distant gyro]

instead of the mindset like "this magic weapon got cooler. cool. now rework the 100 other magic weapons"

[fossil finch]

It's not got the 2 updates per year release cycle minecraft has had, for example

[distant gyro]

it's just "this magic weapon got reworked it's so awesome"

[hollow shell]

👀