Fishron already has strong base stats, that's why it has no bonuses ig
#suggestions-discussion
fathom aspen
small timber
it is not very obvious but those slight amount of wings stats matters a lot
beetle vs fishron wing, fishron wing might not give say "+ damage" but the speed more than made up for it
crude geode
what about soaring insignia
(People value damage way too much over any other stat)
small timber
soaring insignia is mostly flight time iirc, let me see
mystic umbra
would you rather an accessory that gives extra 50% damage or exo box type movement
fathom aspen
Need to mention that iirc Hoverboard's bonus is multiplicative? so for rangers it's not actually surpassed by tattered fairy
crude geode
Truly a balancing moment
grave zincBOT
@frigid yew - Your suggestion has received an updated status!
[Rename Elderberry (calamity) to Elderflower.]
It has been decided that your suggestion can neither be passed nor denied; either the devs have already made plans that conflict with it, or they have decided to implement an altered version.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message
naive gale
anyone used fairy boots before? I'm wondering if it'd be worth changing them a bit, specifically capping how many fairies you can attract somehow(not sure how doable)
currently you keep accumulating fairies over time
until it saturates spawn limit entirely then nothing else spawns
you can go deep dive in the abyss and nothing will pop
so on one hand it's advantageous for that, but it's also kinda annoying how every so often you have to "reset" fairies to be able to do normal stuff like farming, finding NPCs and such
small timber
Need to mention that iirc Hoverboard's bonus is multiplicative? so for rangers i...
I think we got pranked
even if I removed elemental quiver it still do the same
currently hoverboard is just giving 5% damage increase (additive, not multiplicative) for some reason
fathom aspen
Uh oh so that was me recalling incorrectly, sorry for extra work
small timber
nono, you are probably correct
shroomite should be multiplicative (and as hoverboard stated "increase the shroomite bonus by 10%", it should be multiplicative too)
just for some reason hoverboard not only is additive, but also that it is 5% damage bonus not 10%
fathom aspen
Maybe another bug happened during 1.4 port but is long not noticed? Idk
small timber
yeah it is quite controversial
aka "why tf should we put this random accessory into master ninja gear"
small timber
I think the boss checklist is just following cryogen - twins and aquatic scourge - destroyer, not necessary the order they should be defeated
just like how all the 3 mechs have no particular order to be defeated
crude geode
Boss checklist was a mistake
small timber
so tldr the suggestion literally do nothing
since the ordering of the boss checklist is literally meaningless unless the boss is entirely difference progression, eg: mechs compare to calamitas clone/plantera, and aureus/leviathan compare to golem
distant gyro
I don't see this happening
fathom aspen
The problem is manys follow exactly the checklist order in playthrough
distant gyro
0/1/2 is overwhelmingly majority
crude geode
Cryogen fits fine as a pre-mech boss
frosty trellis
I think the boss checklist is just following cryogen - twins and aquatic scourge...
Aquatic Scourge is intended to be fought post 1 mech
small timber
in that case it will just be the same as "moon events are intended as post-Golem"
it will just be an internal consideration by the devs rather than how player play the game
fathom aspen
Personally I always fought AS pre-mechs bc worm killer weapons
So maybe it's just my personal reference
small timber
if they want it to be post-1 mech they return to lock it behind hardmode anvil; and if brimstone is intended post 2 mech then lock it behind adamantite/titanium forge
cobalt pewter
Boss checklist was a mistake
I think if boss checklist is advanced enough to let modders compile a bunch of bosses into a tier and just
scramble their order for every world
surely that will work
:clueless
small timber
I don't see why brimmy is post 2 mechs tbh
same reason as why I dont see AS as post 1 mech, but yeah
distant gyro
because ores are not the only thing you're supposed to get
cobalt pewter
if only permafrost has an actual use
small timber
just introduce a miniboss that spawn after cryogen and make that miniboss unlock cryonic ore
and call it like great winter shark or something
cobalt pewter
why a shark
fathom aspen
Cryonic weapons (and some of the drops) are powerful enough to be post 2 mechs but imo Permafrost items are not
distant gyro
hollow shell
I agree with this suggestion and I have seen testers and devs that express this same sentiment
I know we voted on it before in the dev server but we can see how the votes turn out on this sugg if it goes through
cobalt pewter
like fr cal has 2 shark minibosses already (I consider muscle shark a miniboss)
small timber
imo I think all mech alts should just be put before mechs (and move brimstone summon to pre-mech)
frosty trellis
like fr cal has 2 shark minibosses already (I consider muscle shark a miniboss)
GSS and Reaver Shark
small timber
and just make like, the mech alts each unlock a different armor for different class, but have weapon for all classes
cobalt pewter
yeah basically
hollow shell
GSS and Reaver Shark
my favorite miniboss, Molten Pickaxe
cobalt pewter
I wonder if dynamically moving boss tiers is possible in boss checklist
frosty trellis
imo I think all mech alts should just be put before mechs (and move brimstone su...
We do NOT need more pre mech bloat
distant gyro
I've always preferred 0/0/1 for boss order
frosty trellis
~~my favorite miniboss, Molten Pickaxe~~
God DAMMIT Rover Shark
hollow shell
kek
cobalt pewter
gof
distant gyro
yeah, remove it
crude geode
Delete cryonic you mean
distant gyro
cobalt pewter
cryonic seems to be the issue yeah
hollow shell
I've always preferred 0/0/1 for boss order
Yeah frankly we are not bound to having them line up with mech-alt-mech-alt-etc order
cobalt pewter
deleting it would be funne
hollow shell
We can have more than one mech alt wedged in a space
small timber
QS feels like pre-mech and pre-mech alt, somehow
distant gyro
the reason cryonic was moved was because of the cluster in the first place
small timber
just like how king slime is pre-DS and pre-EoC
frosty trellis
Yeah bc QS is a joke
distant gyro
drops, perma, and ores
cobalt pewter
honestly, out of the life alloy bars, only scoria can rightfully stay tbh.
........
you can probably delete cryonic and perennial and nothing of value will be lost
distant gyro
and the last thing we need is more kill a boss then mine for 5 minutes gameplay in early hardmode
conclusion: fuck cryonic
hollow shell
Still better than kill a boss and don't do anything before fighting the next boss
small timber
charred ore/unholy core is also at a weird spot
hollow shell
But yeah Cryonic sucks
cobalt pewter
or at least make perennial not another plantera unlock for fuckin
small timber
many of the craft are post-calclone or post-Plant
hollow shell
Perennial has plans TM
distant gyro
you already do that for 3 bosses straight
frosty trellis
Yeah
distant gyro
prior to that, 5 from charred and cryonic
frosty trellis
The only useful thing from cryonic ore rn is Ornate Shield pre calclone/plant
crude geode
Perennial try to have an identity that doesn’t just coincide with plantera/chlorophyte
frosty trellis
As Daedelus armor is.... bad
hot zephyr
Perennial has plans TM
they are pretty cool
and more developed than most 
hollow shell
Perennial plans may very well never happen at this rate. Shit's not looking good
But
They are plans
crude geode
Fun
cobalt pewter
okay since it has plans, just thresh cryonic and replace it in the life alloy with idk
shroomite? spectre?
cobalt pewter
so TRUE
distant gyro
the nuclear domino
small timber
just like how this suggestion is on to do as soon as it enters dev server
tardy smelt
like fr cal has 2 shark minibosses already (I consider muscle shark a miniboss)
three actually
small timber
still waiting for it totally not baited
tardy smelt
Great Sand Shark, Reaper Shark and Mauler
cobalt pewter
I'm only considering life alloy to be kept now because 2 out of the 3 bars are 1. somewhat cool and 2. has plans
but holy fuck get rid of life alloy
hot zephyr
just like how this suggestion is on to do as soon as it enters dev server
we create and throw out plans far faster than you could even sugg things
you are not the exception 
small timber
life alloy when it is basically scoria bar but to make item theming less awkward
crude geode
Pretty much yeah
distant gyro
the ascendant spirit debacle
crude geode
So true
cobalt pewter
I only consider a combination material to be goodtm when it has 4 or more unique materials
in another news
ase
hollow shell
how feel about combine Core of CoC and Life Bars into one item
cobalt pewter
core of coc
distant gyro
no
crude geode
core of clash of clans
hollow shell
as in neither exist individually anymore, it's one combo item instead of two now
small timber
it will be weird with tiering yeah
cobalt pewter
rover is just 1 letter away
frosty trellis
Tf is Core of Coc?
distant gyro
dubiously calamity core
cobalt pewter
suspicious core of potential calamari
hollow shell
There would be minor tier funnies but nothing not solvable with some recipe edits
frosty trellis
Fair
distant gyro
I think with enough recipe refinery neither of the two should end up existing
crude geode
^
distant gyro
neither base cores
cobalt pewter
the cores should definitely not exist by now
small timber
the entire purpose of core is to force you to explore dungeon instead of crafting them right away
cobalt pewter
essences + ectoplasm is way more than enough if you wanna keep coc
small timber
(and to gate them behind plantera, but that can be done by like living shard)
distant gyro
raw ectoplasm could convey this
crude geode
(and to gate them behind plantera, but that can be done by like living shard)
Fuck living shard
hollow shell
mmm
crude geode
Bad material
cobalt pewter
and here we are, another case of plantera having way too much unlocks
hollow shell
Maybe maybe, the Crags rework will make the Crags have an expansion / new drop after Calamitas is killed, like the Abyss gets or like what Plant unlocks for the Dungeon
So we have more exploratory material to work with around that point and tie it to a non-Plantera boss
small timber
I think the main problem is everything plantera unlocks is vanilla
crude geode
What does that have to do with the problem at hand (combined materials being kinda cringe)
small timber
so it will have to be a vanilla alteration
crude geode
so it will have to be a vanilla alteration
My brother in Christ, the early hardmode rework
hollow shell
What does that have to do with the problem at hand (combined materials being kin...
Not having all the cores be tied to Plantera via Ectoplasm
distant gyro
I think Ectoplasm is too much of a core material anyway
crude geode
Wouldn’t it still be tied to plantera at that point anyway
distant gyro
what does Ectoplasm even make for vanilla other than some Spectre stuff
small timber
2 moon summons
distant gyro
oh yeah moon summons
small timber
pretty much it
hollow shell
Wouldn’t it still be tied to plantera at that point anyway
It opens the opportunity for us to remove Cores and use other stuff instead
Mainly all the stuff using Cores Of Chaos can instead use a new post-Clone Crag material
small timber
the problem will just be where do you tier moon event yeah
if plantera only unlocks HM dungeon then I dont think it is even bloat anymore (perennial have plans anyway)
small timber
tier the moons to post-Golem so we have post-Golem bloat instead
it make the most logical sense because of solar tablet and all (and power level of moon items), but yeah golem already unlock a lot
distant gyro
it still a decent amount of underused external
Broken Hero Swords (and generally, many of Eclipse content + Solar Veil in Cal), Autohammer, Vial of Venom
it adds up
oh and Cyborg --> Nanites
cobalt pewter
true
small timber
tldr we just have to make another miniboss that spawn after plantera that you have to defeat to unlock moon events instead
and call it the great space shark
oh right great sand shark is actually post plant too
distant gyro
the joke feeds itself
small timber
but yeah I do think if moons (have to) be retiered, post-Golem probably will be most appropriate (thematically)
just have to consider that golem also unlock scoria, martian madness, 4 post-Golem boss, tier 3 OOA and also lunatic cultist
crude geode
Tier 3 OOA is irrelevant
distant gyro
just like how moons are technically post-Golem
OOA is also technically post-Cultist
the push continues
small timber
tier 3 OOA when it is basically valhalla knight armor unlock
pillar weapons are supposed to be post-Moon Lord thats why they are so good
crude geode
OOA when it is basically Valhalla knight armor unlock
frosty trellis
tier 3 OOA when it is basically valhalla knight armor unlock
Literally though
distant gyro
pillar weapons are supposed to be post-Moon Lord thats why they are so good
now I don't know about that one
small timber
now I don't know about that one
ok thank god that is actually not the case
naive gale
you can make pillar weapons in vanilla pre moonlord
only the armor is post ml(and wings and stuff I guess)
distant gyro
at that point you're expected to use pillar weapons
crude geode
I think xp is just off his rocker rn
small timber
OOA is also technically post-Cultist
I mean continuing this trend the next logical step will be pillar weapons are actually post-ML
but yeah luckily that is not the case
hollow shell
pillar weapons are supposed to be post-Moon Lord thats why they are so good
wait what that's not true at all
crude geode
I think xp is just off his rocker rn
.
Should return him to his retirement home of Balance Suggestions
cobalt pewter
definitely drunk
fathom aspen
frosty trellis
Should return him to his ~~retirement~~ home of Balance Suggestions
Wait I thought that was mine
crude geode
Retirement homes house more than one person silly
distant gyro
it's not a retirement home, it's a prison
cobalt pewter
wdym #1042197406776827914 is a containment unit
frosty trellis
I escort myself back there when I feel like finishing rogue provi and doing rogue polter
cobalt pewter
fair enough
distant gyro
it's a partial constraint
crude geode
dissapointed but not surprised by terra rework failing to pass
small timber
ok this is what I thought of, it is a bit far fetch for obvious reason but it is what it is (without just deleting a bunch of stuffs):
Cryogen, Aquatic Scourge and Brimstone Elemental (summon items) all move to pre-mech, however their drops are altered:
-> Beside their own boss drop (weapons), Cryogen unlock Cryonic Ore; Aquatic Scourge unlock Acid Rain Tier 2; Brimstone Elemental unlock charred ore/unholy core
-> Rework Cryonic Ore to unlock armor sets for Melee and Ranger; Acid Rain Tier 2 to unlock armor for Rogue and Summoner (nuclear rod also is here); Brimstone Elemental unlock armor for Mage (retier brimflame or something); and if you defeat the boss that is not of your class you at least still get weapon
-> All mechs alts are buffed to be about post 1/2 mech in difficulty, despite their summon being available pre-mech
Mechs
-> Their ore armor are just treated as alternative progression to Mech alts
-> basically Mech alts actually become a "alternative mechanical boss", for example have the armor above being equivalent in power of post 1/2 mech armor
-> Mechs unlock basic ore stuffs that are still good but less specialized compare to mechs alts armor
An for post-Plantera, since it is already stated that Calamitas Clone = Plantera in progression, just move a bunch of things that require ectoplasm to require Ashes of Calamity instead; and leave Plantera to only its vanilla unlocks (HM Dungeon, 2 moon events)
but ya this basically require retiering all of the mech alts so not happening
cobalt pewter
just make all the mech alts into the mech progression, make each boss unlock a specific ore, and when all 6 are defeated you get hallowed
no I am not drunk either, I'm just having a terrible stomachache
small timber
time for a 10 votes suggestion
cobalt pewter
GOD
frosty trellis
time for a 10 votes suggestion
I'll be one of them
I'm still shocked it has never been nerfed
distant gyro
a more likely scenario is that melee speed gets snapped out
frosty trellis
Fair
cobalt pewter
yeah
small timber
that can also work, though it will just become a class emblem copy (with swimming I guess)
frosty trellis
C.Shell needs to get nerfed in some capacity bc it's broken
frosty trellis
that can also work, though it will just become a class emblem copy (with swimmin...
Class emblem with some defensive stats
But yeah fair
distant gyro
what stops it from being a class emblem copy otherwise
it's not like melee speed is gonna change it
maybe to a glove copy
cobalt pewter
no gloves turn you into wolf
frosty trellis
C.Shell gets nerfed
Glove stacking becomes actually meta
small timber
calamity: we added a bunch of interesting defensive and mobility option to increase build variety
player: what if we just craft a lot of gloves
(but yeah, can also give fire gauntlet line the summoner downgrade stacking treatment to melee speed)
naive gale
well most dmg accs are, and it has projectile velocity which is actually quite nice(well as a stat, I have no idea how much it speeds up projs)
crude geode
Not really the best excuse for it
naive gale
gloves aren't very different, the main non-boring aspect is making your weapons bigger
and I guess autoswing but feels like calamity made every weapon autoswing anyway? and so did vanilla with the autoswing toggle
there's quiver of nihility later too which is actually really cool and probably one of the most interesting dmg accs
small timber
8 seconds off
the only difference is basically that 1% crit chance difference throughout the fight, and the small debuff elemental gauntlet apply
tardy geyser
what is dead shot
renamed artemis emblem
cobalt pewter
oh
crude geode
Cooler name, still a stat stick
crude geode
I'm still shocked it has never been nerfed
People forget it exists
Straight up why
It’s an accessory that relies upon you having a wiki to know ANYTHING of what it does
small timber
oh right in calamity celestial shell also give nightwither and holy flame immunity too, so it provide debuff immunity to Lunatic Cultist (stars, holy flame), Moon Lord (nightwither), Profaned Guardian (holy flame), Providence and night Providence (holy flame and nightwither), and Polterghast (nightwither) too because why not
crude geode
Funny
crude geode
People forget it exists
again
small timber
annnnd empress of light also have nightwither and holy flame in day, cool
cobalt pewter
I think there's an issue of lack of transformative combinations in terraria (and cal)
all combinations are just stats stacked and stacked because yes
crude geode
yep
Well
There’s an exception to that
But also it’s MEGA cringe
Celestial Cuffs
cobalt pewter
god
I've held it in for long enough (3 seconds)
auric tesla is one of the biggest offenders to this
crude geode
Auric Tesla try not to be cringe moment
ruby plover
I’m not gonna lie
As informative as they are
I don’t think the huge image addons are that necessary
crude geode
They really aren’t
naive gale
it doesn't help that the first 2 sets of auric tesla for a bunch of classes are mostly passive stuff(a bunch of which is survivability related too), so you're basically playing godslayer/silva again, with just more life regen
small timber
they aren't yeah
ruby plover
It’s a huge amount to take in at once for something you’ll likely look at by just the title
crude geode
Did you see the wings one xp was trying to get to work aster
ruby plover
small timber
it is mostly to build the context of celestial shell being equivalent to elemental gauntlet (since otherwise they might not know what I am talking about)
I will just crop it down to elemental gauntlet and repost it
crude geode
it doesn't help that the first 2 sets of auric tesla for a bunch of classes are ...
What really doesn’t help is that all of the effects (and esp. summons) are still just. copy pasted
I’d take lazy recolor over literal copy and paste
naive gale
I mean obviously but say it was some interesting sets in there, you'd have a bunch of actives or special effects or whatever
but instead it's like "drop more hearts" and "regen more life"
crude geode
I wonder if I could spin a suggestion regarding the sprites of the auric summons or if it would fall under the don’t of resprite on quality 
naive gale
maybe should move gem tech or demon down a tier to replace auric? but these are also kinda very specific so not sure
frosty trellis
Gem tech no bc donor
Demonshade absolutely not
And Demonshade is getting reworked regardless
Same with Auric
naive gale
oh are they, then pointless
crude geode
Still pisses me off that melee gets more exclusive stuff
ruby plover
it is a bit strange that "all class" accessories like C shell give basically fake buffs to other classes
minion knockback my ass
also, could easily slap in mana reduction in there
or increased mana regen
crude geode
Oh I moreso meant the reworked demonshade
Byeah C shell kinda do be eldritch soul artifact v0.5
small timber
+0.5 mana regen per second, +0.5 luck (fishman power WOW), +5% rogue velocity, +10% ammo reservation sure why not
grand wagon
+0.5 mana regen per second, +0.5 luck (fishman power WOW), +5% rogue velocity, +...
Luck changes dps I think
not just fish
cobalt pewter
not in cal
radiant meadow
doesn't aureus usually not do any contact damage after a teleport?
small timber
yes iirc
radiant meadow
then what's the need for a telegraph?
small timber
I think asking for a telegraph is like, still fine maybe? since it do matter for player to reposition
but yeah, the reasoning of the suggestion is off
(or you can exclaim it yeah if you feel the reasoning is not valid)
I will just start the game to try now
yeah aureus have like a full second of no contact damage after teleport
even at low HP he doesn't deal damage immediately
(this one is rev I will check death)
same for death
unless the suggestion is like FTW or some bullshit it is false
restive atlas
what
glass arch
the sugg
small timber
you probably should like, mention in the title it is "visual like whips"
restive atlas
It's not just visual
small timber
you do mention it in the body but at that point people are only confused
cobalt pewter
???
glass arch
how tf is it not just visual
restive atlas
whips have a different arc and a more consistent pattern than the hex doll tendrils
small timber
yes
cobalt pewter
I was initially going off that it's a visual thing
glass arch
yeah it seems more of a visual thing than a complete rework
restive atlas
It would make the weapon work differently yes
small timber
your projectile is "visually like whips", therefore of course the hitbox of the projectile will also have to match
cobalt pewter
plus making the hex dolls another whip but mage would be kinda
boring
just improvise on the initial concept of a spread of tendrils
small timber
however the current problem is you need to have more reasoning on why whips specifically
restive atlas
fine
small timber
at this point why not just make it summon a half screen wide tentacle that swipe the screen, still eldritch
restive atlas
I thought it was clear already
small timber
yeah not quite clear, just because whips is in the game yeah
restive atlas
that's not how any of this works
how does it then
small timber
should be I think?
eldritch tome series of weapon had always never grown on me because of that weird hitbox
it basically force you to be super close to the enemy to hit
hollow shell
Maybe more reason could be added to back it up
Like, stating why whip arcs would be a fitting visual effect for this weapon
Not just why whips would be better but why there was the idea to use a whip motion in the first place
gray nebula
@steep epoch I love you
hybrid steeple
💀
glass arch
💀
hollow shell
How's that
Okay that is better thank you
restive atlas
👍
frail mantle
@mystic umbra believe this was considered but decided against because annoying to code + the slow chargeup of the railgun would make it annoying to do compared to the instant fire of the ultrakill railcannons
mystic umbra
ah ok
austere cargo
So, how hard would it be to make master mode not have the extra slot?
austere cargo
I was looking at the suggestion don'ts page and they had the whole 8th slot/celestial onion thing
the rationale for not doing it suggested master mode should just have 5 starting slots like every other mode
which also solves the celestial onion problem
hollow shell
byeah
The thing is we just kinda don't like Master Mode and don't really wanna acknowledge it
frail mantle
i think 1.4 made it easier to add more slots
hollow shell
If it is possible to disable that extra innate Master slot, without unimaginable programmer headache,
then, we could do it
austere cargo
yeah, that's always the question. it's amazing how difficult easy sounding things can be
as for master mode, it's mostly just multipliers on boss HP and damage, right?
er, enemy HP and damage
quiet kernel
Yea master is basically just stat bloat
austere cargo
seems rather convenient for you guys in a way. Now you have a sort of "malice" mode, but you don't have to care about balancing it because you can just use the vanilla modifiers and call it a day
also calamity does have some changes for for the worthy I see. does it have any interactions with the other special seeds? is there more planned for them?
glass arch
it interacts with ftw
austere cargo
yes, I just said that
glass arch
i dont think it does with any other
austere cargo
I suppose it's hard to think of what would change for constant or drunk world
celebration would only need a coat of paint and the less said about bees the better
oh one other thing. this bugged me in 1.5 and it seems to have carried over to 2.0. is the weird way sandstorm in a bottle interacts with wings intentional?
frosty trellis
Isn't that a vanilla thing?
stable kiln
yeah it is
frosty trellis
I think that's because of how wings work with flight and jumps and stuff so stuff like Sandstorm isn't as effective since you get maximum flight time after a double jump
And bc wings can't exactly spin around
austere cargo
the spinning around thing seems to be part of it
you also lose the speed boost if the wings are in the vanity slot
frosty trellis
That's just wing physics with double jump
frosty trellis
you also lose the speed boost if the wings are in the vanity slot
Hmmm
austere cargo
I also tried hiding the wings, but even with your wings hidden they still show up while you're flying
frosty trellis
Well yeah how else would you fly
austere cargo
I suppose this is in some ways irrelevant to everything except the moab
since bundle of balloons and wings separately is a little redundant
hollow shell
you also lose the speed boost if the wings are in the vanity slot
Ah yes this sounds familiar
That is indeed a vanilla thing
wacky bug
stable kiln
it being fixed would make moab the best accessory in the game so im all for it :P
radiant meadow
If it is possible to disable that extra innate Master slot, without unimaginable...
I haven't looked into it, although I'd imagine it'd require some sort of IL edit or something.
but also.... why. This seems like the most pointless restriction to give people who want to play Master Mode the middle finger
hollow shell
Cuz it's part of our design philosophy to not give difficulty modes exclusively benefits over "easier" modes
Do we have Demon Heart working in Normal yet? Or has there been a decision against doing that?
jagged zealot
Days late, but what was the suggestion? I have had suggestion ideas in the past for a reworked rogue, but I would have to see the suggestion to know what was not allowed to fix mine.
drowsy plank
Days late, but what was the suggestion? I have had suggestion ideas in the past ...
dont suggest reworking rogue lmao
that's just a flat don't regardless of the content of ur sugg lmfao
frail mantle
it was something about making stealth strikes happen every few attacks or so instead of happening after not attacking for a little big i think
either way it doesn't really matter
i wouldn't recommend suggesting rogue reworks yes
jagged zealot
it was something about making stealth strikes happen every few attacks or so ins...
That sounds like a really bad idea.
frosty trellis
I wouldn't suggest reworking anything that's not a boring weapon or a boring line
crude geode
rogue is in like a fine spot concept wise
crude geode
balance wise idgaf that's for nerds
frosty trellis
Balance wise hilarities
crude geode
yes
jagged zealot
I was thinking balance more so than drastic reworks
drowsy plank
crude geode
depends on what you mean for balance byeah that thread exists now
frosty trellis
balance wise idgaf that's for nerds
Executioners Blade being the best rogue weapon until scarlet devil
jagged zealot
But I do think some weapons should be consumables.
jagged zealot
It feels like stealth is almost never used by the larger crowd, and I would like to see more draw backs to just spamming all the time personally. Like, from my experience with others, unless multi, barely anyone unless really-really eager or skilled, uses them. I feel like using the non-stealth attacks should have some sort of deterrent, but not an outright nerf. Something to make the spam attacks more as a defensive measure or a "light" attack and stealth be the "heavier" attack. Which, yeah it is, but with some weapons that's hard to tell. I also wish some past stealth features weren't removed, but that's just me.
jagged zealot
But it feels like I am just as strong or close to the range class, with maybe slightly weaker stats. It feels like it isn't weak enough.
I don't want it cr@p weak
but
jagged zealot
it feels like it is too strong non stealth
eternal escarp
not neccessarily what is currently going on
frosty trellis
the point of spam attackong is usually that youre weaker
Spam is overall stronger than stealth
There are not many weapons that are better using stealth then spam ATM
frosty trellis
Fair
eternal escarp
but im sure they know
jagged zealot
Spam is overall stronger than stealth
There are not many weapons that are bette...
This is why I wanted a rework so stealth was used more. and more reliable.
at least more than spam most cases
drowsy plank
stealth is fine we just need to tweak the numbers a bit
crude geode
^
frail mantle
balance hell
eternal escarp
everyone wants to rework stealth to be more used in the way they think it eill be used more
crude geode
people will always go for easy options over more complex ones
it's why mana potions are so much more popular than regen
crude geode
regen is much better <:boohoo:792848211488407572>
it's also less cringe but still these fools resort to mana flower on every playthrough 
jagged zealot
I still think spam should be weaker than stealth and weaker than base range attacks
crude geode
its what should happen
.
eternal escarp
im 99% sure
crude geode
balancing just takes time
eternal escarp
and if i am wrong then like
crude geode
(like every part of development)
eternal escarp
idk slap me with 5 fish
jagged zealot
Can't remember, but was stealth decreasing agro removed?
eternal escarp
hell if i know check the wiki
frail mantle
pretty sure it was yes
frail mantle
think it happened whenever a lot of stealth's strange extra effects got trimmed down
eternal escarp
aggro barely exists in this game anyway
drowsy plank
"For every point of Stealth, the player becomes slightly more transparent (this will not affect the player if they are near a town NPC, and can be disabled via configuration options) and gains -3 aggro."
jagged zealot
I think it should have been super nerfed, but not removed
drowsy plank
unless the wiki is outdated (very possible) it isn't
frail mantle
"stealth" is also a wacky term for it but at this point it might not really be viable to change its name
eternal escarp
focus fans...
crude geode
I don't think it will be
jagged zealot
I think if stealth MAX had a tiny bit chance to allow player to dodge, like a 1%-5% chance (or maybe a much higher number that isn't seen as ridiculous by others) then maybe stealth could be more like it's name, where basically you can't aim right to hit something you can't really focus on.
drowsy plank
no
jagged zealot
It would add more to the idea of the word being "stealth"
eternal escarp
i agree
with no
crude geode
^
jagged zealot
the current dodges sre already half an enigma
wdym?
drowsy plank
look u can't sugg stealth reworks and stealth strikes are gonna get fixed Eventually™️ just like everything else. so let's talk about something else lmao
jagged zealot
the current dodges sre already half an enigma
I didn't know dodging was a problem.
eternal escarp
stuck in perpetual "they suck" and "these are super strong" with the current dodge mechanic
afaik
jagged zealot
oh, THAT stick
frail mantle
since dodges are on a cooldown so they're more consistent it's reasonable for the early game ones to have a long cooldown but then you get very little use out of them since early game bosses don't last that long but if you make their cooldowns shorter they get zonkers strong late game because fights are longer at that point so you get more opportunities to dodge attacks
balance hell
hybrid steeple
make them negate only certain amounts of damage 
jagged zealot
since dodges are on a cooldown so they're more consistent it's reasonable for th...
So, it's more of a balance and timing issue rather than "it bad" then, okay.
hybrid steeple
though thatd still be semi-useful
drowsy plank
did xpc's sugg about making dodge damaged capped get rejected idr
drowsy plank
sad
frosty trellis
since dodges are on a cooldown so they're more consistent it's reasonable for th...
Evasion Scarf being viable for SCal moment
cobalt pewter
"stealth" is also a wacky term for it but at this point it might not really be v...
ozz said it's possible, but it'll take tons of work, yeah
cobalt pewter
I think if stealth MAX had a tiny bit chance to allow player to dodge, like a 1%...
no
crude geode
ignore the fact that pizza and cogni have had differing opinions on things in the past
frosty trellis
Lmaoooo
jagged zealot
ignore the fact that pizza and cogni have had differing opinions on things in th...
I ain't here 24/7 though.
hybrid steeple
I think if stealth MAX had a tiny bit chance to allow player to dodge, like a 1%...
no
(everyone in this server is cogni)
drowsy plank
(everyone in this server is cogni)
yes this is why i wasn't talking here when you all were talking. because you are all actually my alts and i had to sign into your accounts. obviously
glass arch
completely fake
hybrid steeple
yes definitely that is why there is a one minute gap between this message and this one
glass arch
we arent alts
glass arch
bro im trynna convince non-alts we arent the alts
frozen hornet
I'm alt :imstuff
jagged zealot
I'm alt :imstuff
?
lyric halo
i read through the suggestion don'ts, did i miss something about that?
hollow shell
Yeah you're not supposed to make suggestions that are based on other suggestions
And also you're not supposed to make suggestions based on future content that isn't in the public release yet
hollow shell
(I didn't realize that the dash keybind suggestion was 🏁 , cool.)
hollow shell
It is very likely that we will have a double tap disable option if we do allow for the binding of a key
lyric halo
thank youuu so much
hot zephyr
(that's like, the entire point)
hollow shell
Indeed
frosty trellis
Just bind it to a different key and then double tap is automatically disabled
lyric halo
infernum is so hard without it lmao
frosty trellis
Just bind it to a different key and then double tap is automatically disabled
According to Dom
lyric halo
(that's like, the entire point)
youd think so, but the dash keybind mod that's out there already doesn't do that, so!
hot zephyr
lol
frosty trellis
infernum is so hard without it lmao
Infernum isn't an official difficultly
crude geode
Infernum isn't an official difficultly
with how much it gets brought up here you'd be surprised it isn't
frosty trellis
Fair
lyric halo
to be fair, it is made by a calamity dev, so a lot of people think its official
hollow shell
with how much it gets brought up here you'd be surprised it isn't
We've even officially endorsed it in-game after Malice died
deft yew
(I didn't realize that the dash keybind suggestion was 🏁 , cool.)
dom moment
i put it in inferncord first because of dog, then toast told me it wasn't their job, so i moved it here and dom forwarded it a week early
half sage
small timber
Buff nucleogenesis by 1 and reduce 1 from silva and auric tesla
Get trolled
@oak drum minion slots are intentional that way to prevent minion slot stacking
Thus all of the previous ones do not give their full material in minion slot
The only one I feel should be applicable iw nucleogenesis give 5 because its material are 3+2 (instead of multiple 1s)
And no not all accessories combine their effect after merge
Elemental gauntlet almost completely lose yharim insignia effect, core of blood god lose a bunch of hp and so on; or even eorse absorber
oak drum
but star-tainted uses jelly-charged, nuclear rod & 1st shadowflame, all giving 1 slot
small timber
As stated, it is to prevent minion slot stacking
Chances are they will rather remove 1 of them from the recipe than making star tainted give 3
Tldr is minion slot on accessories are based on progression rather than material
oak drum
Nuclear rod should stay & & remove starburster core or remove jelly-charged
small timber
Post plant you have 2 from accessories (statis blessing) and slightly more if you slot in the 1s so around 3, post-golem you have 4 (blessing + star tainted), post-cultisr you have 5 (statis curse + star tainted)
Post dog you have 6 (nucleo + dark sun ring or eldritch soul artifact)
So it really is not about the material
All of these assuming you have equip 2 accessory that give minion slot
glass arch
yeah, late game when you get nucleogenesis is probably where you need fewer slots for the same effect
oak drum
battery is most likely
small timber
They intentionally make minion slot accessory require a bunch of 1s to prevent minion slot stacking
So chances are if they are removed them from the recipe the item will also be removed
glass arch
if you got boosts from things additively then destroyer emblem would have like 36% extra damage rather than the 10% it currently has
small timber
(though there are still oversight, likr I think blessing stacks)
oak drum
if you got boosts from things additively then destroyer emblem would have like 3...
more like 15% since class emblem -> avenger emblem (omni boost of 15%) -> destro emblem is 15% dmg + 10% crit
small timber
And asgardian aegis will give like 50 defense or something
But ya, things dont stack that way
hot zephyr
et ees intentional
tardy geyser
e guantlet with 24% damage and melee speed
hot zephyr
glass arch
first class emblem has like 15% damage
avenger emblem has 12%
by the additively argument it would give 27% extra damage not counting the ability to stack downgrades
small timber
et ees intentional
Speaking of stacking Statis Blessing is missing the "dont stack with downgrade" tag iirc
oak drum
And asgardian aegis will give like 50 defense or something
as I’ve said, most aspects of their componenets
so asgard’s aegis wouldn’t have 50 defense
25-32 would be more likely
oak drum
first class emblem has like 15% damage
avenger emblem has 12%
by the additively ...
no the souls make it so the class boost is all classes
then the eye gives 10% crit
so 15% (class) -> 15% for all -> 15% + 10% crit
so it’s more just upgrading
small timber
Which basically make the point: things dont stack additively already
So summoner dont get to be the exception
oak drum
I’ll at least be happy for a 5-slot nucleogenesis
glass arch
summoner for yharon has like 20 different options
oak drum
(just reduce 1 from silva and auric tesla trolled)
no
just 1 minion slot doesn’t have that much of an influence on a fight
unless it’s early game then it’s massive but late game calamity
small timber
That is what many people think too
oak drum
you alr have 12-15 ish slots so 1 more wouldn’t be much
small timber
And then bosses die 30 seconds faster
1 slot can be the difference for example of +1 for yharon kindle staff
hot zephyr
you should probably find a better reason why such a massive change should be made
small timber
Or make it so you need 1 less accessory to use exoskeleton
glass arch
look at gsa
extra slot for each kindle you have
that opens up potentially 4 slots for other summons provided you get enough base slots which is huge
hot zephyr
especially since nucleogenesis is already kinda great lol
glass arch
an extra 5 or so on top of that is just stupid
oak drum
especially since nucleogenesis is already kinda great lol
would +1 for genesis make sense tho?
espec since statis curse was fixed to have 3 slots rather than 2
small timber
Nucleo +1 will make sense, but to not throw off balance chances are silva and auric tesla will have to get -1
Tldr it will just be a feel gooe change
oak drum
also I’ve done the calcs +1 slot means 16 post-yharon
so 4 baby dragons + 6 more from GSA (1 more baby dragon) giving a total of 22 slots
ok I can see why we shouldn’t just straight uo buff genesis with +1 slots
cobalt pewter
here's a better solution: make accessory trees not just stat sticks slapped left and right
small timber
+1 minion slot often means +1 accessory with how they are balancing right now
So tldr summoner have +1 accessory slot for the entirety of HM and postML will be what +1 minion slot means in terms of balancing
wanton reef
4
frozen hornet
Simply install cheat sheet and add one minion slot once you get star-tainted
small timber
Summoner is top tier nohit
ruby plover
when did you get involved (I assume a summoner nohit has been done?)
what
small timber
For almost the entirety of HM and postML
ruby plover
i mean yeah ive done summoner nohits in the past but also 
i am just a simple lad with opinions
frozen hornet
Most coherent calamain sentence
oak drum
ah k
ruby plover
soo ture
oak drum
I guess I’ll take my leave then
small timber
here's a better solution: make accessory trees not just stat sticks slapped left...
It will sadly likely stay the case unless they dont want to make class accessories for progression (eg yharim insignia, recon scope, molten quiver etc)
frozen hornet
To be fair what else is there to give to accs
small timber
Since othereise you will just have 1 line of accessories being given a bunch of upgrade (eg post provi fire gaintlet upgrade or something)
small timber
Is it ever explained if armor pen are working properly?
Since last time I try to test it each armor pen is giving 0.75 damage instead of 0.5
And also still give damage even if below 0 defense
naive gale
To be fair what else is there to give to accs
generally most of the main line of accs have unique properties related to the class, but that doesn't evolve much or change at all, for example gloves give bigger weapons, mage stuff gives auto mana pots+heartreach for stars, ranged gives ammo consumption and faster proj(arrows for quiver then everything once deadbrooch), minion is just minion slots and I guess minion knockback which I find irrelevant, rogue is stealth consumption
naive gale
these could be evolved further, or more similar things could be added
small timber
The thing is: what do you add to the other class
Rogue benefit from the fact that it is a calamity class so they can do whatever they eant
But for example for ranger, like point blank shot and thats it?
What effect do you give that is unique and dont result in just + damage but in fancier words
naive gale
well melee: defense when you land true melee attacks and/or warbanner effect that increases stuff when you're closer, mage could be the nebula effect of having a mana regen that still works during casting, ranged can build upon the quiver of nihility concept which I find very interesting but is late and only works on arrows, summons eh whatever, maybe some whip stuff once whips are added
fathom aspen
e.g. things like non-stealth Scourge of the Seas poison cloud projectile on Cryogen P1 is popping up 11-12 damage, a single STN buff it to 13-14 which is already 17% difference, not to mention other even faster weapons, making low stats weapons hard to balance around enemies with varying defense&DR
so I assume armor pen exclusive to individual weapons will be good
naive gale
you can add further concepts to the accs so they're just not stat sticks, or at least conditional stat sticks, like ultimately it's still gonna be damage, but indirectly instead of just +5% dmg +3% crit and better dots than the previous stage
that said I'm personally mostly ok with the current system, I don't really need more accs upgrades I'd say, and while stat sticks aren't super interesting, they're easier to balance I think
small timber
Warbanner will lead to massive stat bloat, 1 accessory 25% damage and melee speed kind of deal
Defense when landing true melee strike is already on titanskin (and melee already have most defense, with how large true melee weapon get late game they dont need more defense)
Nebula effect is extremely broken when it is not free (aka nebula armor) you can imagine what it dors when it is free
Quiver of nihility is bad when it is not free but just free damage boost when it is free
Summoner whip stat is maybe the only ok one (but I will rather it just br a separate accessory)
You can see where this is going
When you stack a bunch of effect onto thigs they just become broken
That was the case for rogue, like guarantee crit on stealth strike etc
Even now mirror giving dodge still make it super broken
naive gale
obviously they'd need to be balanced around that addition, not just directly apply the same thing
small timber
How do you balance around true melee landing hit give defense without just gutting melee defense, or nebula effect without just gutting damage on accessory (and so does warbanner) so on and so forth
fathom aspen
people considering a 90s dodge broken moment
small timber
There is a reason why those accessories dont really get an upgrade because their individual effect sre super good that it is hard to find a place for them to be combined
If they are combined you.will just have rampart of deity v2.0
(And why it is super hard to give them unique effect without at the end being just 'yeah lets just give some good stats instead')
naive gale
if the nebula effect is 10per sec, make it 2-3 per second or so, and only the mana nebula, not the life or dmg ones, warbanner it'd be reduced to like 15max and the range also reduced to be starting at say 15range, while the gloves baseline wouldn't go up for example, the titan effect would like just come with removal of the pot/rework of the pot, this kind of thing, and those were just examples of existing mechanics that could be implemented simply
tardy geyser
*people considering a 90s dodge broken moment*
it can be broken depending on how often you get hit, like even if you get hit every 9 seconds (major skill issue) then its still 10% less damage taken
small timber
If the bonus are so minimal or conditional then it become a situation where it just dont matter or too conditonal to be remotely useful
And it will just be effect bloat to build wall of text on items
(which is why many super unique effect like daawnlight spirit origin comes from donor, because they can just skip balancing concern)
naive gale
that's how the current accs work though for the most part? elemental gauntlet is 15/15 with 5% crit versus fire gauntlet which is 12/12 with no crit, there's some pointless dots too and then there's a bunch more true melee, but the difference isn't like massively impactful, and if you replaced that difference by a different more conditional mechanic where you get more damage when doing it right, but less when not, I think that's better
frozen hornet
And also still give damage even if below 0 defense
Pretty sure that's already fixed
naive gale
but yeah wall of text is a concern
anyway I don't think the current accs need a big rework as I said, was just pointing out some things by reusing existing mechanics it could technically be done, if they're made unstackable they might need a bit of a boost to damage though to compensate, as post ML stacking multiple dmg accs is pretty common and there's only so many choices(unless you're rogue then you get like 5 damage accs that don't build into anything)
small timber
Generally stuffs are still balance around stat sticks iirc
HM is like 2 defense 2 damage, 1 stat stick/mobility (normally dash) +1 mobility (normally wings)
And postML is dash +wings, then rest is 2 defense/mobility 2 damage 1 stat stick
I think, not super sure
frozen hornet
It's not like stat sticks are inherently bad
small timber
Under that assumption accessory stacking (eg fire gauntlet + mechanical glove) will mean you dont get to use anything else
frozen hornet
I personally think more fancy effects should be saved for one-off accs instead of mainline ones
small timber
Accessory stacking is more to prevent when you stack 5 gloves + 1 wing and kill bosses under 30 seconds
fathom aspen
it can be broken depending on how often you get hit, like even if you get hit ev...
I'm afraid not, it can't be calculated this way bc people without skill issue barely need this dodge to survive a bossfight, also getting hit every 30 seconds isn't 33% less damage bc hp regen is a thing
while for people with skill issue they still can't rely on this dodge to guarantee survival on bosses
hot zephyr
wulfrum fusion rifle already does this
small timber
dodge effect is bad/ok when it is not free, like how many people use evolution
hot zephyr
if you want to know why this hasn't been done in the past, it's that armor pen was broken and just gave you free damage. it's why blade staff was good in older versions
small timber
and then there is amalgam, eclipse mirror and ninja gear line where dodge is more of an additional effect and then suddenly dodge become way too good
fathom aspen
imo wulfrum rifle can be a good start
weapon-exclusive armor pen will be easier to control than STN ofc
small timber
I'm afraid not, it can't be calculated this way bc people *without* skill issue ...
I think probably maybe just based it on how much damage it can potentially prevent
eg: assume in scal you take 300 damage (in hp after defense) per hit, over 5 minute scal expected kill time you dodge 3 hit, so 900 damage prevented / 300 second = 3 life regen per second; 3 life regen (or rather 6, since 2 life regen = 1 hp/s) per second is not good when it is a stand alone accessory but when it is slapped onto a stat stick like amalgam sure why not
(and that is 90 second dodge, if it is lower then it scales exponentially)
hot zephyr
dodges are S tier damage accessories if they end up allowing you to pull off adrenaline
it's why they don't get buffed
end of discussion
fathom aspen
Dodge is also a hell to balance but imo simply bcuz of adrenaline existence
too short dodging cooldown = guaranteed adren = boss dies
hot zephyr
it's the balance equivalent of a tar pit and I don't want to touch them more than necessary
dense ferry
Delete adrenaline, fixed
small timber
and yeah when you go glass cannon it start to prevent like 900 damage
(still waiting for the adrenaline nerf)
dense ferry
Eh it doesn't need one
hot zephyr
(still waiting for the adrenaline nerf)
dense ferry
Is it strong? Yeah, but it's hard to get, so
vocal grotto
Adrenaline removal
dense ferry
I barely get any consistently
small timber
for late game/end game sure why not
for early game/pre-HM the bonus is 'kill bosses in 5 second' level
it just starts too high at 200% but only scale in small amount to 245% at post-Polterghast
dense ferry
I mean, it's early game, it's not really hard to master the Bosses, it's not an adrenaline problem
small timber
if it start lower then I think it will be a lot more fine
small timber
I mean, it's early game, it's not really hard to master the Bosses, it's not an ...
the problem is it is not hard to master early boss AND adrenaline can 100-0 (most) pre-HM bosses
ruby plover
I haven’t read the conversation but
This most recent suggestion isn’t a solution to AP balancing, is it
Sounds like making it worse 
small timber
technically imo it makes balancing around armor pen easier
but why are you balancing around armor pen in the first place :clueless:
ruby plover
I do not have an informed opinion, as I’ve never tested stuff
dense ferry
the problem is it is not hard to master early boss AND adrenaline can 100-0 (mos...
I mean, once you master a Boss, is it really a problem that you just... Don't get to fight it? I mean, you are already bound to win if you don't fuck up massively, just let's get it done with quicker
hot zephyr
it's funny because the examples listed (with the exception of blade of grass) were absolute balance clusterfucks
dense ferry
And if you like the Boss fight and want to redo it just don't use Adrenaline
small timber
I mean, once you master a Boss, is it really a problem that you just... Don't ge...
then adrenaline should give me a "good" damage boost to hasten the fight, like dealing 30% of boss HP in 5 second
the current situation of adrenaline in preHM is it is 100-0 on good weapon, or around 50~60 on many average weapon
dense ferry
Altho making Adrenaline scale in damage the further you go sounds good too
It becomes a higher reward the more you progress, but so increases the difficulty of getting it
hot zephyr
adrenaline in pre hardmode is egregious
most fights are decided by the first adrenaline cycle
hot zephyr
true melee isn't even the exception lmfao
vocal grotto
One idea I had was to just make its benefit be the insane DR when at max + maybe a heal to compensate tanks
But like
That's gonna be divisive no matter how we try it
Same with any major changes, honestly
cobalt pewter
adrenaline should slow time
hot zephyr
hot zephyr
don't reinvent the wheel just rebalance the upgrades
small timber
yeah nerf damage boost and make it give you DR during adrenaline or something
dense ferry
Make Adrenaline addaptable to the build you are using, it surely won't be an absolute nightmare to code :clueless:
small timber
and then true melee stall 30 seconds melt 5 seconds happen
cobalt pewter
make adren upgrades insignificant enough
wary silo
adrenaline should slow time
i love ths idea
hot zephyr
vocal grotto
https://tenor.com/view/progress-unlearning-brain-making-progress-discord-users-g...
All of my game design knowledge escaping me when I think about adrenaline
hot zephyr
it's a fun mechanic but GOD
vocal grotto
It's a fun but unbalanced mechanic
A very, very aggravating combination
hot zephyr
(please someone make a wacky adrenaline suggestion so we can stick it to the fridge)
cobalt pewter
just make the dmg and DR not upgradable and make the upgrade do smth irrelevant
vocal grotto
I do not like skipping entire hard phases with adrenaline by dealing with the easy phases for a while 
small timber
I like that there is a reward for skilled play/incentive to go mobility rather than just defense to help you dodging, but yeah 200~245% multiplicative damage boost is just
even 100% (double) is already strong for me
fathom aspen
I worded weapon-exclusive ap 'performing quite well' as they are dealing high damage regardless of what base damage stats they have, vanilla balance isn't smth I know much
dense ferry
just make the dmg and DR not upgradable and make the upgrade do smth irrelevant ...
"With this upgrade, Adrenaline now makes the Boss glow, to make it easier to target"
small timber
I never found myself needing more than double damage unless I am doing some challenge run that restrict my gear to be way below on-tier
vocal grotto
One thing I did was to just make it take a lot longer to charge up, increasing the skill floor and reducing the amount of impact it has over time due to less successive uses
wary silo
what if and hear me out adrenaline makes it so that you attack and move faster with mabey a small damadge and damadge reduction boost
cobalt pewter
I think the dmg boost is way over the top nowadays yeah
I'm trying to think of translating the thing with Gears of War active reload
but increasing the charge time would be a decent start?
make it take 3 mins to charge
small timber
imo the problem is still there tbh, it increase the skill floor but at the sametime people who already get it consistently will still just melt bosses as soon as they get it
vocal grotto
Yeah, I agree
Though I feel like going much further than that would cause public outrage
small timber
isnt old adrenaline like 60-50-40-30 and you kill king slime before you get to adrenaline
I like adrenaline as an incentive to spec mobility and reward for "not face tanking to deal additional damage", but yeah as a mechanic it is overtuned as fuck
cobalt pewter
considering cal has gone out of their way to get rid of almost everything nohit related
I'm surprised adren is still spared
vocal grotto
It's a fun but unbalanced mechanic
A very, very aggravating combination
This, I'd guess
It's not one of the things that can easily be removed logistically
It would not be taken well
cobalt pewter
fair enough
dense ferry
Huh, what if Adrenaline damage bonus goes down the longer it stays active? It starts at the humoungus 245% damage boost but quickly goes back to the original value while the buff ticks down over the few seconds it lasts?
hot zephyr
Yeah, I agree
Though I feel like going much further than that would cause public...
me after nerfing adren to 70% damage
vocal grotto
me after nerfing adren to 70% damage
"YOU FUCKING RUINED REVENGEANCE MODE'S IDENTITY!!! I'M GONNA SPLIT YOUR RIBCAGE OPEN"
small timber
I think nerfing is fine, but yeah removing sounds harsh
dense ferry
This would keep it very powerful, I assume, but would still make so, if you time it well, you could use a nuke weapon like a sniper and do a batshit load of damage
hot zephyr
"YOU FUCKING RUINED REVENGEANCE MODE'S IDENTITY!!! I'M GONNA SPLIT YOUR RIBCAGE ...
I hate Calamity fans so fucking much I would love the outrage
small timber
on the other hand there is rage that just slip under the radar everytime as a passive damage boost mechanic
cobalt pewter
I hate Calamity fans so fucking much I would love the outrage
savoring their salty tears for an entire month sounds fun
vocal grotto
The moderators:
small timber
just stealth nerf it
hot zephyr
We already nerfed Stealth
cobalt pewter
wtf.
hot zephyr
what does that have to do with Adrenaline
vocal grotto
Gradually nerf it over 5 updates
See how few people notice
Bring the frog to a boil
hot zephyr
People would go apeshit if it went from 200% to 195%
cobalt pewter
Gradually nerf it over 5 updates
See how few people notice
good idea
hot zephyr
There is no frog
naive gale
adrenaline definitely felt broken especially on true melee, my DoG true melee kill was entirely reliant on adrenaline bursts(which on death master only took 2 to kill the whole boss pretty much so...)
gray nebula
scary discussion about adren haha
hot zephyr
welcome
vocal grotto
scary discussion about adren haha
It's OK it's not in the dev server
cobalt pewter
scary discussion about adren haha
what is he cooking
fathom aspen
Uh so
How about making dodges still interrupt adrenaline charge? This way dodges won't be op damage-wise and it won't need to take adren in to account when balancing any longer
gray nebula
just gonna say um do keep in mind the experience from a regular player
hot zephyr
ye
naive gale
problem is the average/bad player doesn't get adrenaline at all
gray nebula
like yeah no hitters will get a lot of it but if its made harder it will make it even more of a nohitter only thing
cobalt pewter
the game now estimates your overall skill and nerfs adren dynamically
naive gale
the good players get adrenaline on cooldown especially if you're just fishing for it instead of fighting
hot zephyr
the disparity between the average user and the top% grassless ones is one of the reasons I do not like the current iteration of brenaline
cobalt pewter
every calamity copy is personalized
hot zephyr
imho keep it relatively quick charging but shred the damage lol
small timber
I think the assumption for regular player is they get adrenaline (very occassionally, some IRL adrenaline surge moment) and get rage 1/2 times per fight yeah
gray nebula
thinking of all the chippy bids where he almost gets adren and then when he gets it once a fight it's like crazy cool awesome
vocal grotto
Isn't that
Kinda the central thing of the mechanic as is though? A gap between the regulars and the "elite"?
Not necessarily saying that's how it should be, just how it is
naive gale
I think it'd be fine if adren was like half of what it is dmg wise, maybe even less though
the burst it provides currently is ridiculous
gray nebula
it's a reward for having mastered a fight enough that u managed not to get hit
as I see it
hot zephyr
Isn't that
Kinda the central thing of the mechanic as is though? A gap between t...
idc about the intent the mechanic gives me an aneurysm sometime
small timber
which is why I thought if adrenaline give some DR/regen or heal + small damage instead of OMEGA damage and nothing else will be better
sot it become a clutch comeback mechanic when you get to win back the fight after dodging super well in an unwinnable situation
gray nebula
just change the adren equations
make it not multiplicative and not applied onhit
or something
vocal grotto
574 damage -> 11 damage
hot zephyr
GOOD
gray nebula
cuz atm it stacks so well with any other damage up option
wary silo
also could i take a moment to mention the fact that the inferna cutter is completely broken against worms in early hardmode. you can just sit right inside the destroyer or aquatic scourge and it will kill the things in seconds. you dont even have to move or use a heal. it needs to have some sortt of nerf i think.
hot zephyr
adrenaline DR is kinda wacky and weird DR strats kinda ended up coalescing in the stress pills rework
gray nebula
like if you dodged the boss flawlessly for long enough to get adren after getting hit à lot like
hot zephyr
shoutout to the stupid adrenaline shield strats
narrow fable
what's your pfp CLO-SPR?
hot zephyr
what's your pfp CLO-SPR?
goofy goober
gray nebula
an oc
hot zephyr
iban is smelly
gray nebula
drew the pfp myself
narrow fable
From where?
gray nebula
from me
dense ferry
iban is smelly
.
hot zephyr
the mind of a deranged psychotic individual
narrow fable
So you made your own oc from No game at all?
hot zephyr
legend says he's still asking Moonburn for some sounds
gray nebula
yeah no game at all
vocal grotto
me after nerfing adren to 70% damage
Let's do it
🤝
gray nebula
hence the original in oc
hot zephyr
Let's do it
🤝
We'll go down together, brother
Well not really the general public does not know we exist
narrow fable
Cool.
vocal grotto
We'll go down together, brother
Well not really the general public does not know...
We have the Infernum Bunker
dense ferry
Shout out to original universes, gotta be one of my favorite genders
small timber
which is why I thought if adrenaline give some DR/regen or heal + small damage i...
the original idea was if you are full HP it still give you good damage (over the DR/heal)
so you get it at low hp (when you dodge exceptionally well than your usual performance) = you comeback into the fight
if you get it at full hp (by playing flawlessly) = you get the usual big damage boost
but yeah, it it not happening anyway
vocal grotto
It's resistant against nuclear blasts meltdowns
cobalt pewter
We'll go down together, brother
Well not really the general public does not know...
not really, dom is known for infernum, even fab gets compared by dom by the general peeps
you're pretty rogue though
hot zephyr
Nah
Dom is the rogue Calamity developer who HATES Calamity and STOLE THE SOURCE according to the masses
cobalt pewter
GOD
hot zephyr
or not even a developer in some corners
hot zephyr
I can't believe you get all the fun controversy
I want some brainrot 
All my controversy was lame and boring
vocal grotto
Eh, I stay away from places that perpetuate it
I'm not interested in making my eyesockets give me lethal bloodloss due to bursting from reading cringe
hot zephyr
tl;dr nerf adrenaline and bring back RDR
cobalt pewter
tl;dr nerf adrenaline and bring back RDR <:troll:860219727712354315>
wtf!!!!!!!!
gray nebula
Comparers in the chat?
hot zephyr
(the last one was a joke don't crucify me you goblins)
gray nebula
imo trying to play aroundne with afren's application location might be interesting
dense ferry
Too late, this is being taken out of context
gray nebula
to make it not stack as stupid high with damage ups
hot zephyr
valuable information.....
applicable....
adrenaline is not wholly irredeemable the current iteration is just fucked
dense ferry
If it was that would be sad
hot zephyr
iban hates me and my rage
vocal grotto
😡
hot zephyr
despite all my rage i'm still just a rat in a cage
small timber
additive will probably make it super strong early/preHM and HM but very mediocre late/post-ML (unless each upgrade boost it by a ton), I think?
since early weapons are balanced around having less additive damage increase
gray nebula
no
by asffiticr
brmpv
by additive I meant like
if I have adren that gives me 100% more base damage
it's different than adren giving me 2x damage
hot zephyr
+100% instead of * 2
narrow fable
I wonder what if they add a PMD mod in terriara like you can become a pokemon in game
gray nebula
because if I have a separate thing that gives me 100% extra damage well the first one would have it be 300% damage total but the second one ends up being 400%
hot zephyr
@grim tusk Rise and shine, Mister Freeman. Rise and... shine. Not that I... wish to imply you have been sleeping on the job. No one is more deserving of a rest, and all the effort in the world would have gone to waste until... well, let's just say your hour has... come again.
fathom aspen
if I have adren that gives me 100% more base damage
but Rogue
hot zephyr
shade I need you to test adrenaline at every stage of the game in the next week
vocal grotto
(I may or may not have the motivation to actually put it on the github)
crude geode
why is Balance Suggestions leaking into normal sugg discussion
naive gale
maybe make adrenaline last longer, give a scaling damage boost the longer it goes but cancel instantly if you take damage even during it, currently it's very "oh adrenaline is up ungabunga don't need to dodge I'm just gonna race"
small timber
balance suggestion when it is actually balance 'weapon balance' suggestions
cobalt pewter
why is Balance Suggestions leaking into normal sugg discussion
because as I said, #1042197406776827914 is more for mpg containment unit
hot zephyr
because the thread is scuffed
vocal grotto
Ian rebelling against the thread by refusing to acknowledge its existence
dense ferry
If you take damage while you are under Adrenaline effect, you have a heart attack and a direct shock is sent from your earphones and completely stop your heart
crude geode
how is it scuffed
hot zephyr
🤫
cobalt pewter
If you take damage while you are under Adrenaline effect, you have a heart attac...
so immense death while having adren
dense ferry
so immense death while having adren
It's a high risk high reward system
cobalt pewter
so true
small timber
technically the balance suggestion thread only apply to weapon balance since those are the one you ping testers for buffs/nerfs
which mean anything else that is not weapon related balance-wise goes here
hot zephyr
why are you uploading a jpeg of the 
cobalt pewter
no nitro moment
hot zephyr
why isn't that in here
small timber
I dont know
cobalt pewter
(I should gently abuse the modmail to add it here)
hot zephyr
small timber
:Clueless:
vocal grotto
why isn't that in here
Ask for moderator just so you can add it, and then step down
hot zephyr
good idea
i have other plans for that though, like randomly rearranging the letters in xpc's name
dense ferry
(I should gently abuse the modmail to add it here)
Abuse and gently shouldn't work together
vocal grotto
Nick Abuse has been illegal since March 2021
small timber
how do you rearrange something that has no meaning in the first place
hot zephyr
Nick Abuse has been illegal since March 2021
Crime time
small timber
I came out with that name by smashing my head on the keyboard because I couldnt think of a name
vocal grotto
Crime time
4891
dense ferry
Simply skilled
dense ferry
I will put this on YouTube
small timber
close enough
dense ferry
Damn, nothing
cold cosmos
Xcq6e2xc3
short walrus
that banner suggestion would be
cobalt pewter
big
short walrus
inconvenient, at best
short walrus
@prisma flax large scale reworks are a don't
prisma flax
a standalone mod maybe?
short walrus
in other words: your suggestion won't be passed
short walrus
a standalone mod maybe?
don't suggest it here then
small timber
and the player will never want this
prisma flax
yeah, should read the pin about don'ts
small timber
they can just have a banner, then use chaos candle + zerg potion and kill 100 enemies per second while taking 0 damage from attacks
and instead the suggestion make it so planting banners become a struggle for survival
the increased loot drop or whatever will never be worth it, since over the time you kill 1 enemy that is enraged + deal more damage or whatever and have increased drop chance, using the current banner they can kill 100
and the 3rd bonus is straight up non-sensical: why would enemy just randomly start dropping fish and ores just because you have 3 banners
the tldr of this suggestion is "I dont want to fish for fishing crate so let me rework an entirely different thing to achieve the same objective"
ruby plover
This is definitely enough of a thing to make a seperate mod about
Rather than a calamity thing
prisma flax
they can just have a banner, then use chaos candle + zerg potion and kill 100 en...
my exact point is that farming hundreds of mobs per minute is not fun cuz they don't really fight back
you can rat it out with just summons and sentries
small timber
why will fighting overstated normal enemy be fun
you can simulate the same effect with master mode ftw, find a zombie and try to kill it with a copper shortsword: having normal enemies just being massively tanky and deal super high damage is not a fun activity
swift wharf
banners are a collectors item and decoration
prisma flax
i guess i kinda miss more difficult npcs coming to calamity after vanilla ftw
swift wharf
nothing more
small timber
if you want more difficult enemy you can instead suggest to buff the various minibosses instead (which currently are massively underutilized)
the very least many of them have move sets, while normal enemy more often or not just have flyer/walker AI so buffing them will not be really interesting
prisma flax
i think there will come a day where you could play infernum on legendary ftw seed
ruby plover
…..
sand ermine
i think there will come a day where you could play infernum on legendary ftw see...
no there wont
ruby plover
There won’t, btw
swift wharf
clueless
prisma flax
why?
sand ermine
i thank god every single waking hour dom isnt adding support for any of that stupid shit 🙏
swift wharf
they don't know that infernum does not work with master or ftw
ruby plover
Because it’s just dumb balance necessities
swift wharf
||yet||
ruby plover
Extra work that isn’t needed
small timber
because difficulty stacking will just result in bullshit
neat linden
i thank god every single waking hour dom isnt adding support for any of that stu...
i must agree
small timber
and ya, wanting to have infernum working with legendary ftw just means that they have to change every single AI to fit that
ruby plover
The boss HP scaling config exists for a reason
prisma flax
yeah, bosses are alright in infernum
hell, i struggled with many of them
it's just that all other non-boss enemies are very undertuned in comparison