suggestions-discussion

[frosty trellis]

Yeah introduced would do it

[fervent orbit]

bruh

[steel raptor]

I can test again later tonight

[fervent orbit]

shattering was removed

the holy grail of melee was removed

[drowsy plank]

we already had two people test it this patch

[frosty trellis]

No more shattering potions and cursed flame was removed and Crumbling is just worse

[fervent orbit]

crumbling is 5% worse than old cursed flame

[frosty trellis]

Yeah

[crude geode]

^

[frosty trellis]

I just use Ichlor now

[crude geode]

do we really need more screenshot proof it being bad

[frosty trellis]

Zenith, unironically, is bad

[crude geode]

I think a tester would consider it bad on it's own

[steel raptor]

You are using nycro no hit mod to record kill time right

[fervent orbit]

yes

[frosty trellis]

I would buff Zenith and then give the seekers ridiculous resistance to Zenith because it's crazy

[frosty trellis]

Yes and Caltesthelpers for DPS numbers as well as to make sure SCal wasn't killed so 20 second acceptance

[fervent orbit]

is ichor better than crumbling?

[steel raptor]

I think Executioner’s Blade should be nerfed

[frosty trellis]

I'm not sure but I just use it bc I know it's good

[frosty trellis]

Shade is well aware

Executioners Blade Spam is fucking wild

I would know, I told him that

With a normal loadout for spam it's 2 minutes and then replace v-locket with glove of recklessness and whoops 1:3x

[fervent orbit]

wats a good weapon that gets consistent dps on exos and scal (basically homing and quick and ez to notice differences in dps) i want to test ichor vs crumbling on them 2

[crude geode]

rogue and summoner try not to have the stupidest acc. known to man

[steel raptor]

Glove of wrecklessness is a massive dps boost

[frosty trellis]

Dragon Pow is the only thing that comes to mind for mele

[fervent orbit]

ok

[steel raptor]

It’s a much higher dps increase than nanotech

[frosty trellis]

No real homing but it's easy to use

[frosty trellis]

Yeah it's kinda insane rn

And is getting nerfed next update

It was over buffed

[crude geode]

can we just delete all rogue accessories instead

[fervent orbit]

wat happened to wrecklessness wot

[steel raptor]

when did they buff it

[frosty trellis]

Didn't they buff it this most recent patch?

[fervent orbit]

dont think so

[steel raptor]

wrecklessness has synergy with weapons with low use time because it rounds down

[frosty trellis]

Literally right here

[fervent orbit]

huh

i never rlly considered their secondary stats

[drowsy plank]

mfw 3% rogue attack speed broke the class

[crude geode]

quadruple the inaccuracy

(it will do nothing)

[frosty trellis]

Homing spam weapons be like:

[steel raptor]

The inaccuracy doesn’t matter for exe blade

It is homing

[frosty trellis]

Ye

Same with hypothermia

[crude geode]

it's almost like it's a really dumb "downside"

[drowsy plank]

glove of recklessness when the only thing it "recks" is game balance

[frosty trellis]

LOL

[lucid flare]

godly soul artifact on its way to be the most useful if the player has specifically 13 minion slots

[frosty trellis]

That's not even true
Right now having 15 slots + GSA gives you 3 kindles and 3 mechworms and that kills SCal in a dumb amount of time

[lucid flare]

wasn't aware of that lil thing

i thought it wasn't even possible ot have 15 slots by that point

[frosty trellis]

Auric Tesla Armor (6)
Nucleo Genesis (4)
Darksun Ring (2)
Summoning (1)
Bewitched (1)
Base slot (1)

[lucid flare]

ah yes, darksun ring

i never used it because my omega master tank build always ends up with me only having 1 class accessory

[swift wharf]

nice upside down stairs

[bright crag]

Eldritch Soul Artifact has 2 slots too

[frosty trellis]

True but DSR > ESA

[remote raptor]

DSR ESA? what does that mean?

[frosty trellis]

DSR = Dark Sun Ring
ESA = Eldritch Soul Artifact

[remote raptor]

ty

[frosty trellis]

Np

[hollow shell]

I disagree with this crate suggestion

The incentive for fishing should not be an exploit

It is awkward that we still have stuff appear in crates after certain progression points
Meaning the issue still exists on a much smaller and more situational scale

Vanilla "solves" this by just not having any later-than-post-WoF stuff show up in crates

Dunno what we could do aside from an excessive amount of more crates

[drowsy plank]

yeah i dont think anyone liked it sides that guy

stuff like crush depths getting a hardmode only buff should also die, so reverting crates would not help. it makes sense why cal does what it does, and changing the crates would just cause compatability issues

[frosty trellis]

@ashen warren

[short walrus]

Config hell

(they mentioned that, they still want to dash but don't want to double tap)

[frosty trellis]

Why

[short walrus]

Fuck if I know

Something about panic induced keymashing throwing you into a projectile

But that's more a problem of the user rather than the dash system

[frosty trellis]

Yeah

That's literally just skill issue more than anything

[short walrus]

@ashen warren read above please

[frosty trellis]

Also "because other mods do this" isn't a valid argument
Just enable those mods????

[ashen warren]

I said in the suggestion that these mods don't work with calamity

[short walrus]

Ok so if I'm understanding right,
This suggestion won't ever happen on the grounds of calamity having too many Configs, too many keybinds, and a dash of user error

[tardy geyser]

how tf do people accidently dash, i never have that issue

[ashen warren]

Also there times you need to do a 'double tap' movement without dashing. Say you have to pause and move again in quick succession, but not moving too far like a dash would do. And yes many of the dashes are down to user error, say finger twitching, but it's extremely difficult to try and remove that muscle memory for some like me.

I don't really understand how nobody else currently here hasn't had this issue before

[blazing kettle]

have you tried using a mount

it disables dashes and (some) are slow if you wabt precision

[ashen warren]

No I still want dashes. I just don't want them to be activated by double tapping.

[short walrus]

(just gonna repost this)
This suggestion won't ever happen on the grounds of calamity having too many Configs, too many keybinds, and a dash of user error

[steel raptor]

just tested zenith on deathmode exo mechs and got a 6 min 15 sec kill time on death mode, no adrenaline used

no godmode on either, fought it like normal

[drowsy plank]

ok and

like woo hoo now we have 3 people who all said the exact same thing

[steel raptor]

warding is on 5 of the 7 accessories and lucky is on 2 of the 7

order went ares -> artemis/apollo -> ares kill -> damaged thanatos -> killed artemis/apollo -> killed thanatos

6 min 15 sec for a build like this is less than average

I think the problem with this is that melee speed does not benefit zenith at all

[drowsy plank]

wow it's just like what mpg said 2 hours ago

[ashen warren]

Having "too many" key binds or config is barely an issue. At worst it's a little overwhelming, but all you need to do is take the time to look at them It really isn't that big.
And again yes it's down to "user error", but some like me find it very hard to stop doing it. That's why there a bunch of mods tackling this specific issue for non-calamity dash items, so clearly it's a prevalent issue.

[blazing kettle]

so, zenith bad, that is obvious, what ideas do yall propose to make it better

[steel raptor]

he had a longer time than me by a minute or two

[drowsy plank]

mpg got a 6:05

[frosty trellis]

So for testing purposes, it's 3 menacing, 4 warding (or 3 warding 1 quick)
No alcohols
No spiteful candles

Take that away and you should get similar results
Also it's tested on Expert-Death , no rage and no adren

[frosty trellis]

For SCal

For Exos it was 7:30

[drowsy plank]

ah

[short walrus]

Having too many keybinds is a massive issue because our keyboards do not have infinite keys

[drowsy plank]

i mean still

kinda beating a dead horse here

[steel raptor]

I only used bloody mary, no sake

[frosty trellis]

Yeah and no alcohols are allowed for testing

[tardy geyser]

sounds like its balanced to me, there just happens to be weapons that are better

[frosty trellis]

Neither are spiteful candles

So yeah

Which inflates your numbers

[frosty trellis]

No it's not

[steel raptor]

if you get a kill time of 5 min or less without adrenaline the weapon would be fine but if it is longer than that it should get some buffs

[frosty trellis]

Exo's is 6 minutes testing
SCal is 5

[ashen warren]

You don't need to bind every single calamity control, you can remove or swap them out when they're not needed anymore.

[frosty trellis]

No alcohols, no rippers, 3 menacing, no spiteful candles

[tardy geyser]

oh you got 7:30 on exos just seen that

[drowsy plank]

have you looked at the control settings with cal enabled
regardless, having an option couldnt hurt i agree, but oh my god there are so many items with keybinds

[tardy geyser]

yea might need a buff then

[frosty trellis]

Zenith is 7:30 on Exos and 6:0x on SCal

With the normal balanced tester loadout

Which is A Fair Bit Too Slow

Although if Zenith gets a buff the seekers need to take like 10% damage from it bc it kills the seekers so fast already

[ashen warren]

Ik there are lots of key binds for calam but how many people actually use more than like... 4 in a playthrough?
The only ones I've ever used are the revengence bars, normality relocator and then I think Elysian guard.

So personally I don't think it's really anything to be concerned about.

Idk why calam devs didn't just put all these set bonus binds into a singular bind named "set bonus" or smth

[edgy sundial]

personally, there are already too many keybinds between vanilla, calamity, and whatever other mods i might want to use

[steel raptor]

I swap my mount keybind with god slayer dash tbh

because by the time I get past DoG I never use mounts with the exception of the gamer chair

[frosty trellis]

I still use saddle for Exos

[half sage]

the bloodflare ranger and GSD need to be separate otherwise if auric tesla ranger armor had a single keybind for its set bonus it'd use both at the same time

[steel raptor]

what seth said

[frosty trellis]

I don't even use the chair until I fight Jared bc chair feels cheap for SCal

[steel raptor]

what's jared

[ashen warren]

Besides my point about double-tap dash wasn't to add an extra option in the keybinds, it was to add an option in the config and then maybe add an option in keybinds to combine all the dash keybinds into one.

And ik for a fact Calamity mod config is extremely tame compared to some others.

[edgy sundial]

config suggs are a don't, iirc

[ashen warren]

wait what

Oh actually it just says,

"Adding a new configuration option to resolve a controversial change."

I mean idk about you but I don't think my suggestion is controversial.

I just wanna use calam dash items with finger twitching into a Moon Lord death ray.

[short walrus]

Think of it this way

[edgy sundial]

note 2 is about very specific changes, and i'd say that don't is more about finding a better solution instead of slapping a config onto every little thing

[short walrus]

Which is easier to activate:
Double button press
Or a single button press

[drowsy plank]

you could put it on the same key as GSD i guess

or something

idk

[ashen warren]

I personally put it on mouse3 and that works pretty well

[drowsy plank]

also we do have a "set bonus" keybind

the problem is a lot more things than just armor has keybinds

[ashen warren]

note 2 mentions "such as involving one singular item" but my suggestion concerns every item that dashes, including many accessories and some armors.

Plus I think dashing is a core part of Terraria movement, so I wouldn't consider it so small or specific.

[edgy sundial]

"such as"

you're asking to have a config option to toggle the behavior of dashing because you accidentally press left or right too quickly

[ashen warren]

I know many people have this problem, entire mods have been made for it, just none that are calamity compatible.

[edgy sundial]

i know many people that don't have this problem, entire mods that don't make this change

[short walrus]

Mods Such as?

[ashen warren]

And if we're using "such as" as a point of argument then what is and isn't a "very specific change" becomes blurry. But again I think it's isn't so small or specific.

[edgy sundial]

well yes, i would assume "very specific change" doesn't just apply to one single instance, and is in fact a blanket term

[ashen warren]

Oh wait crap

not that one my bad

This one with a lesser 12K subs but still pretty significant.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2645058109&searchtext=helpful+config

Also this one,
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2562942991&searchtext=dash

And I've seen a good couple forum posts about it

[edgy sundial]

calamity is 1.6M subs. if we assume every subscriber for those mods use calamity, then you're asking for a change that benefits 1% of calamity players

[steel raptor]

@frosty trellis I actually got a worse kill time with ark of the cosmos

than zenith

I was parrying as much as I could

same accessories

I compared zenith with that weapon because they have a similar problem of getting zero benefit from melee speed

it was about a minute worse of a kill time

[ashen warren]

A blanket term yes, but again I think my suggestion is a more broad, since it covers all dash items.

[frosty trellis]

Ark just can't do shit to Exo Twins, especially on Death (when testing is done on rev) so I'm not surprised

[steel raptor]

zenith does better against ares and twins at least

ark does better against thanatos

but even by the time I got to the last mech the zenith was killing at a faster rate

[frosty trellis]

How tf does Zenith do better against Ares

Zenith is like the worst melee weapon for Ares what

[steel raptor]

hits multiple segments more easily

don't have to aim

[radiant meadow]

when do we get a #calamity-balance-discussion iirc

[steel raptor]

true

[frosty trellis]

Literally though please

[radiant meadow]

gonna be honest, it's weird seeing it discussed here when you're not allowed to suggest it

[frosty trellis]

Which is fair

[steel raptor]

well the pins has a section of ppl to ping for balance discussion and its on this channel

#suggestions-discussion message

[radiant meadow]

for lack of a better chat

[steel raptor]

it also says in the document that those people to ping for balance testing are to be pinged in this channel https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OA3GxJ4w4QA4pCkngwt8kqW8Qq18U5KOCUJEucUS8ck/edit

[ashen warren]

Buuuuuuuuut only 663K of them are unique subscribers. So really this effects about 3% of players. Admittedly not a very large percentage, but being over 1/50 Calamity players I'd say is more than a fair amount to make the change, far, far smaller changes have been made with a much smaller impact!
And this is only people who've actually gone and looked for mods like this, there could be plenty more that would like the option if it was there.

[steel raptor]

yes, balance suggestions are not allowed, but it says explicitly in the document that there is nothing wrong with requesting balance changes. Ben, I don't know what you're talking about here since it literally says to ping the balance testers on this channel instead of a different one.

[edgy sundial]

that says unique visitors, not subscribers. there are 1.6M people who have calamity downloaded right this second

[frosty trellis]

@steel raptor Skill issue

[steel raptor]

agreed

[frosty trellis]

Ark is more than fine on Exos

Just hard to use on SCal at times

[steel raptor]

oh was that with less buffs than I used

[frosty trellis]

Trick I use is start exos twins and when artemis dashes just parry artemis during the dash

Helps a lot

[steel raptor]

yeah I think I had the wrong sequence

[frosty trellis]

Also staying close to Artemis during Ohio and just punishing it hard helps

[steel raptor]

the only thing I did differently in terms of order is killing twins last instead of thanatos

[frosty trellis]

Ah

I always do last mech thanatos because of his inconsistencies with his openings outside of berserk

I basically do exo twins last if I do true melee or if the weapon is named Void Vortex

My exos pattern that I go with is:
Exo twins to 70
Kill Ares in one fell swoop
Thanatos to 70
Kill exo twins
Kill Thanatos

[steel raptor]

the order I do depends on the weapon

for the longest time I've done thanatos to 70, ares to 70, kill thanatos, kill ares, kill twins

[frosty trellis]

I mean if I'm going VV I go:
Exo Twins
Ares dead
Thanatos all the way
Kill Exo twins

[frosty trellis]

Interesting

[steel raptor]

what is vv

[frosty trellis]

Void Vortex

[steel raptor]

ok

[frosty trellis]

Berserk Exo twins is optimal if you are using void vortex only

[edgy sundial]

also, if you wanna start getting nitpickety, my assumption that 100% of the other mod subscribers use calamity was in your favor. in all likelihood, it's much less than 100%, so we can say those ephemeral people who might use the mods with calamity if they knew about them are included in that 100% number to keep the math easy

[steel raptor]

executioner blade I do ares to 70, twins to 70, kill ares, kill twins, kill thanatos

gets me a sub 3 minute kill time

[frosty trellis]

Need to try Exe blade on Exos

Lemme see how that goes

[steel raptor]

use glove of wrecklessness

[ashen warren]

Damn, I was thinking it accounted for resubbing there but it doesn't look that way, still weird that over 1M players just sub the thumbnail without actually clicking on the mod page

[edgy sundial]

calamity is pretty well known

[frosty trellis]

@steel raptor P5 Thanatos sucks bc it's opening are so damn inconsistent but yeah

[ashen warren]

Anyway, that's true also, but considering calamity does in fact have 1.6M subs I could also assume that roughly 60 - 70%, possibly 50, of the subs from the dash mods also have calamity. Which returns to about 1%.
Which still isn't much, but I think is still significant enough to garner a change. Countless smaller changes have been made before.

[edgy sundial]

no, the math has been done. you put both mods together, you get 16K subs, which if you assume 100% of them also use calamity, that's right at 1% of total calamity users. 1/100 is a very small number

using this math, for every person that wants a way to change dash behavior, there are 99 others who don't see any issue

[hollow shell]

Was there this big of an argument the last time this exact thing got suggested?

It wasn't even rejected by the devs, it just didn't get enough stars that week
And it was still a pretty respectable amount of stars
#suggestions-voting message

(160 stars)

[ashen warren]

Well hey that's something

[edgy sundial]

i'm mostly arguing because this involved a lot of "well i think"s and "lots of people want"s, and it turns out the workshop numbers don't entirely agree

[hollow shell]

Whether or not people want it doesn't matter at this phase really
That's what stars are for

[edgy sundial]

i agree with that, i was just arguing against vague, unverifiable reasons

[hollow shell]

Also this suggestion definitely does not fall under a "very specific" config change as discouraged by the config soft-dont

This entails a core mechanic that is relevant throughout the whole game

It's not like he's asking for a Shield of Cthulhu keybind but keep all the other ones double-tap

[cobalt pewter]

I'm probably late but

#suggestions-posting message

no.

[hollow shell]

Yes that one's been commented on

[cobalt pewter]

incredible

[hollow shell]

Not invalid but unlikely to get stars

[tardy geyser]

#suggestions-voting message something like this would be better than a new keybind imo

[cobalt pewter]

I'd rather cal revamp fishing mechanic so that it keeps being interesting even later in the game

low priority but yeah

[hollow shell]

(invalidity could be argued cuz it's a "revert" but the situation is different cuz it's a change that vanilla made rather than Cal)

[cobalt pewter]

people complain over some weirdest Vanilla changes sometimes

[ashen warren]

Well the "I think" parts were my own opinions, like "I think" dashing is a core part of Terraria and "I think" my suggestion is broader than "very specific" so not really a lot of ground to cover there.
And as for "lots of people wants", 16K is a pretty big amount man, yes It's small compared to the calam sub count and only some of them use it, but again around 8-10K people who would want this change isn't a number to scoff at.

[cobalt pewter]

probably bad wording but yea

[cobalt pewter]

if there's already mods to cater to those, why does cal need to do it again?

that just seems like waste of time and effort

[ashen warren]

I mean how many people were hyped for "Reduced Crabulon Crab Shroom base HP from 25 to 15" or "Removed proficiency" in the changelogs?

Probably next to 0

[cobalt pewter]

ahh

[ashen warren]

Idk maybe the proficiency might have had something going for it but last time I checked it seems pretty cool.

[cobalt pewter]

simply code better and force cal's dash items to be disabled as well

🫵

[cobalt pewter]

as far as I understood the latter is pretty widely celebrated

kinda stupid example with the former tho

not every change needs to have a fanfare

[ashen warren]

Really that's weird

Well aight

[cobalt pewter]

no one sane really likes proficiency

[hollow shell]

Ehhh

[cobalt pewter]

[hollow shell]

it was a bit controversial

[cobalt pewter]

at least in its current state

(or current before its removal)

[tardy geyser]

pretty sure both of those were in #suggestions-voting at some point and got more than 100 votes

[edgy sundial]

the raw number of people isn't a useful statistic. 4 people isn't a lot, unless it's in a 5 person group. 10M people isn't much in the face of 1B people, etc.

[hollow shell]

Why are we still talking about this

[ashen warren]

Even still the link #suggestions-voting message Rover gave shows that people have wanted this before.

[cobalt pewter]

this is probably going nowhere now yea

was about to say

[ashen warren]

yeah it kinda is

[cobalt pewter]

just cope harder and move on

[hollow shell]

I don't even see an amount-of-people-would-want argument in his sugg's reasoning

[ashen warren]

I might as well just ask this instead

[edgy sundial]

i'm responding to his reasoning from this channel's discussions

[hollow shell]

Well then you don't need to respond further because this

[ashen warren]

Has anyone else here had an issue with accidently activating dash by double-tapping when they didn't want to?

[cobalt pewter]

in combat, no

when building, just take the dang thing off

[hollow shell]

Personally no because I am always slamming dashes during fights constantly anyway
However I know it is an issue for some, otherwise Ball And Change would not exist

[cobalt pewter]

or ball and chain yea

speaking of

[edgy sundial]

nope, i just use ball and chain the few times it comes up

[cobalt pewter]

will cal change the activation method of these items with right click like new vanilla stuff

(like shellphone and guide to peaceful coexistence)

[hollow shell]

We'll see when we get there

[cobalt pewter]

alrighty

[hollow shell]

The favoriting was done for a technical reason. They used to be use-toggles, but that had MP syncing issues

[cobalt pewter]

ahh

[ashen warren]

Ball and chain just turns dash off entirely, I still want to dash but not with double tap, since it's very easy for me to activate it accidently.

[hollow shell]

iirc something about them being tied to all players instead of each player? Could be wrong

[crude barn]

well yeah plenty of times

but it's more human error though

though tbh no game other than terraria has double tap to dash for a good reason

[edgy sundial]

minecraft does, or at least it used to

[hollow shell]

byeah
Dead Cells, HK, funny Dark Souls

[hollow shell]

funny, Minecraft actually does have the option to use either, exactly what this sugg is asking

[crude barn]

minecraft has a dash?

[hollow shell]

That's a run rather than a dash

[crude barn]

oh sprint lo

[hollow shell]

so different case but still comparable

[edgy sundial]

what is a dash if not a means to start sprinting?

[ashen warren]

Oh yeah Dark Souls had the double tap jump option which was miserable

[hollow shell]

Dashes that have a limited distance and do not result in a toggled walking a speed increase

like... Terraria's, if you're not wearing boots

Or HK or Dead Cells or Dark Souls

ik that was probably sarcastic but 🤷

[edgy sundial]

it was

[hollow shell]

Indirect balance sugg

Whom to ping

[crude barn]

and besides

dazzling stabber got its base damage more than doubled

courtesy of stip

well this is post provi

[frosty trellis]

Dazzling Stabber Staff is fine

Every single summon minus saros and kindles post provi is fine

Snake eyes is 3:02, and Polter testing time is 3:00, so yeah

[crude barn]

if you really want to buff dazzling stabber for some reason then probably making its orbit path smaller would be better

[frosty trellis]

I doubt it's bad against polter. I presume it's fine

I can't check for a bit but I trust memes there

Since it's not Saros or TPE

Saros is still overtuned

[hollow shell]

@bright crag @hot zephyr @inner anvil How is Dazzling Stabber

(stip isn't in the ping list but if they had a hand in balancing it then it's fitting to ask them)

[frosty trellis]

Yeah I ping them for mage stuff usually

[crude barn]

someday we really do need to make a balancing channel
though it would probably get stale kinda quickly

[frosty trellis]

Ehhh, it would be fine

Would be an easier way to filter out balancing stuff and be able to immediately counter people saying XYZ is bad or too strong

[crude barn]

I wonder how much "nerf TPE" requests it would get per day

[frosty trellis]

LOL

TPE does need a serious nerf

[crude barn]

(insert TPE with any overpowered weapon of future updates)

[frosty trellis]

It's viable for SCal and Exos but isn't the best summon weapon for them as I've seen

[crude barn]

well it's a terrarian situation

[frosty trellis]

Terrarian wasn't good for SCal though

Oracle was still better

[crude barn]

it can be used

[frosty trellis]

Terrarian was good for Yharon

[crude barn]

it'll perform alright

except on seekers and hearts ofc

[frosty trellis]

Ehhh, Oracle preformed better on the brothers and seekers and was comparable on SCal herself from what I remember

Oh god if memes saw the DSS suggestion I can only imagine he would just say "armor pen 🤢"

Armor pen is dumb

Tag damage is even more dumb

[lucid flare]

me trying to memorize every acronym in the calamity mod discord

what even is DSS

[radiant meadow]

dazzling stabber just got a big boy buff in the last update

armor penetration on minions is a horrible balancing mechanic imo as well

[drowsy plank]

yes but it is not like Item From Vanilla and henceforth it is garbage and needs to be reworked

[hollow shell]

Desert SScourge

[frosty trellis]

Lmaoooooo

[hollow shell]

(dazzling stabber staff)

[lucid flare]

Dimensional Soul Sartifact

[hollow shell]

^

Daawnlight Spirit Sorigin

[lucid flare]

or maybe even Daawnlight Spirit Sorigin

god Damn it

[radiant meadow]

I don't think the problem is acronyms

themselves

I think the problem is that you're putting acronyms on everything

[lucid flare]

yea its the quantity

[hollow shell]

aight anyway @nocturne coral read from here onward

[radiant meadow]

It's like if I say, oh no AA needs a buff, TSS kinda trash, but don't worry, TTC and BCO are fine

like no shit nobody's gonna know what this means

cuz the acronyms aren't frequently used enough

unlike DoG or AMR

[hollow shell]

byeah

Dazzling Stabber is such a specific one time item, doesn't need shortening

[bright crag]

I mean, I wasn't the one to balance it
But I can check tomorrow, if needed

[lucid flare]

ah yes AMR i surely remember what that one means

Adult Meidolon Rwyrm

wait that's anti-materiel rifle ain't it

[bright crag]

Yes

Here come the dash keybind fans

Also, giving armor pen to Stabber makes sense but
Balancing it properly will be horrible

[nocturne coral]

Have you ever done low level run in JRPG?

[bright crag]

Armor penetration isn't dumb

It is, however, very chaotic

I wish it wasn't so wild in terms of damage increase

[lucid flare]

what does that have to do with anything

[nocturne coral]

Armor Piercing is the greatest tool in Low Level Runs. It's pretty much mandatory late game because your foes can literally take 0 damage otherwise.

[lucid flare]

and........what does that have to do with anything????????

[swift wharf]

terraria is a jrpg

[lucid flare]

i mean why does the fact that "low level runs in jrpgs" exist have to do with dazzling stabber staff being weak

[swift wharf]

uhh yes

[lucid flare]

what

[drowsy plank]

wow that sounds like an awful idea

[swift wharf]

(it has nothing to do with it

also that

yes let's put the rework that'll make hell not boring in a subworld instead

[cobalt pewter]

@grand quail no future content, plus subworld for everything is cringe

perish

[frosty trellis]

Fine for Polter (3:00 testing)
Broken as shit for CV (3:00 testing)
Fine for Storm Weaver (2:15 testing)
Wee bit good on Signus (2:00 testing)

[swift wharf]

[lucid flare]

screenshot jumpscare

[frosty trellis]

@bright crag Dw I got Dazzling stabber

[hollow shell]

cool

[frosty trellis]

DSS is fine and doesn't need anything

CV needs res to DSS if anything

[hollow shell]

Good to know I spropose

Also @grand quail do not make suggestions about content that isn't in the mod yet
especially content that won't be in the mod for like, a few years

(and the Underworld will very likely have enough space for it anyway)

[lucid flare]

changelog: ceaseless void dark energy now takes 1% less damage from dazzling stabber st

[frosty trellis]

LOL

Dark energies need to take like 50%

Maybe not 50 but 60-70

[swift wharf]

I do not get this midas prime suggestion

[cobalt pewter]

hm

[swift wharf]

It's cool and good for single target I think that's enough

+epic secret that stormbow does not have

[hollow shell]

I like their point that it would make players give a shit about how and where they throw their coins

[crude barn]

basically

[hollow shell]

Instead of just spamming em

[swift wharf]

i mean yea

but i don't get mentioning stormbow and arbalest

[lucid flare]

its da competition

[swift wharf]

and the spam could be fixed with a longer cooldown I think

[hollow shell]

It seems like the point is that Arbalest and Stormbow have a much lower skill floor (ceiling?) to attain the same DPS as a more complicated weapon like Midas Prime?

[crude barn]

yep

[hollow shell]

i.e. players are currently not rewarded for using the more difficult weapon

[cobalt pewter]

I feel like this is the case all the time

players obviously prefer using braindead stuff that does decently than trying to do something interesting for a (potentially) better reward

what average terraria brain does to a mf

[swift wharf]

it's a gimmicky weapon

(please don't mention that one gravity globe convo)

[cobalt pewter]

I am the only one

out of the loop, it would seem

[hollow shell]

me when I play Terraria and I cannot hold M1 on the boss for the entire fight to get optimal DPS

[lucid flare]

me when i have to aim

[cobalt pewter]

one of the more glaring examples for me is probably pre provi rogue

Elemental Disk is fucking braindead and it does better than almost every other rogue weapons at that point

(Lunar Kunai is close I think?)

[hollow shell]

Imagine how sick it would be to throw coins above and below a boss before firing, to have the same bullet chain through them a buncha times and deal a lotta damage

[storm anchor]

railcoining

[hollow shell]

You'd have to be mindful of the boss's movement and plan your coin placements well

[storm anchor]

thats railcoining

[frosty trellis]

That would be

So cool

[storm anchor]

ples fabso

[hollow shell]

I have not played enough Ultrakill to use that tech

but thas cool

[frosty trellis]

Me who much prefers the cooler weapons that have gimmicks and actively tries to be good with them to improve my skill at the game

[drowsy plank]

reminds me how someone did some ranger weapon testing and crackshot colt performed so fucking bad i had to take it off of class setups

because revolver was able to kill bosses in 1/3rd the time

[hollow shell]

funny

[drowsy plank]

and blood rain bow

that thing is absurd

[frosty trellis]

You make me want to ping Navis on that

[drowsy plank]

yeah do it and ask them to do the rest of the damn ranged weapons for that tier

lmaooooo

[frosty trellis]

Lmaooooooo

[grand quail]

Ok

[hollow shell]

👍

[lucid flare]

Crackshot Colt rolls worst kill time ever

asked to leave Guide:Class setups

[frosty trellis]

[drowsy plank]

me editing class setups after the spirnglyo claymore that looks like someone barfed on the MS paint color picker gets a buff and is now viable from pre-Boss to pre-Yharon

[hybrid steeple]

gotta keep the interesting weapons weak or the "perfectly balanced" videos will get some actual content for once

[frosty trellis]

Lmaoooooooooo

[frosty trellis]

[lucid flare]

me when the late game weapon is "viable" against the early game boss

[cobalt pewter]

we blame yrimir for making Terraria YouTube content a thing

(he doesn't exist)

[frosty trellis]

Someone is still salty about Solistice Claymore being the 3rd best melee weapon for prov and catastrophe claymore being by far the best melee weapon for plant and calclone

[drowsy plank]

im just mad they look like shit rn

[frosty trellis]

Tfw a popsicle is better than a sword forged in brimstone

[hybrid steeple]

duke fishron showing everyone how the gorbleblade attained post-provi is incredibly op against cryogen for the 3rd time today

[frosty trellis]

Okay anyone else have a weapon that "supposedly needs a buff" I need to test before I go back to chilling?

[cobalt pewter]

Deific Thunderbolt? idk honestly

I was just thinking of pre polter rogue stuff

[frosty trellis]

Can give it a go

[cobalt pewter]

and while everything just seems bad on polter, at least Alpha Virus is the least egregious (with 53s off intended killtime with a weirdass build )

[frosty trellis]

Spam first
Then stealth

It's fine

[cobalt pewter]

huh

[frosty trellis]

Nothing unreasonable either

[frosty trellis]

Anything else?

[cobalt pewter]

nothing else for now

[frosty trellis]

👍

[crude geode]

I feel like there’s obvious examples against this

such as the new ark line

[cobalt pewter]

not gonna even bother pinging the user

[hybrid steeple]

... interesting

[cobalt pewter]

@zenith hazel #suggestions-posting message

yes

[swift wharf]

I love calamity software having access to my computer !!!!!

[zenith hazel]

@tiny yarrow my man that is insanely difficult to implement

let alone possible

[glass arch]

probably not possible tbh

[zenith hazel]

also there's no reasoning to your suggestion so there is that

[tiny yarrow]

Oh, ok.
Should I delete it then?

[swift wharf]

this has so many donts

[zenith hazel]

yep

[swift wharf]

and bullshit design 😭

[tiny yarrow]

apologies.

[drowsy plank]

what did i miss

[crude geode]

Sugg based on one line of dialogue from SCal

[hybrid steeple]

sugg to have scal attack you with characters you beat her with before based off of one misinterpreted dialogue line

[drowsy plank]

poggers

[swift wharf]

also it creates files in your computer

[zenith hazel]

nothing, the suggestion has been deleted

moving on

[inner anvil]

I made it good last update, it's fine.

[frosty trellis]

As I confirmed

[inner anvil]

I just woke up.

[frosty trellis]

You're good

Just showing you that I confirmed that it's definitely fine

Everything post polter is fine

And pre polter

[hollow shell]

Nice

[small timber]

rough performance:
twins - acceptable/good
ares - terrible, for some reason it deals no damage, I almost thought ares have zenith resistance
thanatos - bad but not terrible, it is just really hard to hit all thanatos segment when it is off screen constantly

ok I thought this would had higher impact than I thought, but ya

both zenith, 2nd one have screw driver

so basically for -1 life regen, you get about 4% damage increase which is fine

I thought it will be ~10% since I keep hearing screwdriver with zenith is so good

[frosty trellis]

So in conclusion: Zenith bad
And your loadout is more offensive than the one i used bc RTN over DSR is a lot of damage

[small timber]

yeah, I noticed zenith just didnt benefit from melee speed whatsoever so I changed to rtn just to see if it is a massive improvement

(it is not)

[frosty trellis]

It's not massive

Well, no it is a fairly large difference

Bc for me I had 7:3x with DSR and you got a 6:5x with RTN

Armor pen is stupid

And ofc 3% extra damage

Yharims Gift and C.Shell have the same damage

[small timber]

oh I didnt noticed it is 7:3x, I thought it is 7:0x

[frosty trellis]

Yeah

[small timber]

yeah armor pen is quite stupid then

[frosty trellis]

I can do another zenith test with RTN over DSR if you want

[small timber]

let me do 1 try with dsr instead (since well this is already going on)

sure if you have time

[frosty trellis]

I have nothing to do atm

So yeah

[small timber]

ok doesn't seem to make a significant difference (other than maybe thanatos is abit slower)

it did make me play confidently with more life regen though, so it is some increase but not game breaking level

I guess it is not not a significant boost on ares and twins, on thanatos it should be quite decent

[frosty trellis]

I would disagree entirely

[small timber]

huh

[frosty trellis]

I'll do another DSR test to be sure but yeah

What order do you do exos? That might change things

[ashen warren]

I'm pretty sure zenith is kinda weak rn

[frosty trellis]

It is

We know

[small timber]

twins -> ares thanatos (ares) -> mecha (twins) -> twins -> ares thanatos (ares) -> ares -> thanatos

[ashen warren]

[small timber]

yeah it is abit weak

surprisingly exo mechs dont have zenith resistance, it feels like it

[frosty trellis]

Ah, I go
Twins
Kill ares in one fell swoop
Thanatos 70
Kill exo twins
Kill thanatos

UNLESS
It's void vortex, in which I kill Thanatos before Exo twins

[frosty trellis]

Ares especially

I literally looked up on the wiki to see if ares has resistance and was going to ask for it to be removed

[small timber]

yeah zenith on ares feels awful when it do so well on twins; and you have multihit for ares on top of that
(ok I just realise we really need a #balance-change-discussion at this point huh)
though it might include a lot of people storming in to say buff murasama or something, since suggestion-discussion having a pinned document do deter a lot of people

[frosty trellis]

Felt slower on Ares, thanatos was being a little weird but yeah my 7:30 was something else.

[frosty trellis]

Yeah that's the problem with it
Also the fact that a bunch of people will just come in with nerf x overpowered weapon everyone knows aobut

[small timber]

closest I think is a thread under suggestion-discussion, though I am surprised that this server didn't have a single channel with thread

(ok I get a 7:20 with ark, I definitely am not used to more complicated weapon when doing bosses so I will stop at zenith)

[frosty trellis]

Yeah fair

[crude geode]

.

not my thoughts on the idea but

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[inner anvil]

Just leave testing to the testers, we can keep things simple and effective.

[frosty trellis]

Fair enough

[grave zinc]

@wintry frigate - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[make evil smasher much more rare]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@urban sphinx - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make the Calamity cursor accessory dyeable.]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@oak sage - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make Subsuming Vortex and Heavenly Gale's projectiles produce light like all the other exoweapons]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@winter carbon - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Plaged “Bed” should be able to be slept in]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@wary pier - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[add Abyss Torch (and other Calamity Biome Torches in future) to Torch's God Favor]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@royal tapir - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Change Abyss Torch recipe to not use Lumenyl]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[small timber]

ok thank god I finished my yoyo journey already

this is so fucking gonna get nerfed

on scal it is fine since it is super hard to hit mobile (and it is bad for hearts and seekers), but on exo this is comical

it is a bit too good for thanatos, only abit

[frosty trellis]

Jesus fuck

[small timber]

on other mechs other than thanatos I think oracle is just about right, but ya on thanatos it is melt machine

[frosty trellis]

So, nerf Oracle a bit but give Thanatos res

Fair

[ashen warren]

You're playing very agressively in that

[small timber]

but at the sametime thanatos is supposed to be killed over like 2 minutes

[small timber]

this one I am not playing as aggressive (basically fight normal)

[small timber]

this one is more just to show how much damage it can deal if you just discard any semblance of safety

[ashen warren]

What do other things do in the same scenario

[small timber]

sec

[frosty trellis]

Me who plays Thanatos aggressively because of his stupid openings

Also Thanatos doesn't really deal enough damage for me to care too much

[cobalt pewter]

ah yes

Thanatos moment™

[small timber]

still somewhat aggressive but with nerfed thanatos I think this is already safe (since I didnt get hit)

[ashen warren]

Damn

[frosty trellis]

Yeah Oracle is cracked

[small timber]

ignore the 1:48 killtime, that is demonshade + azathoth

[frosty trellis]

Fair

[frosty trellis]

This though
If Thanatos had any sort of consistencies with his openings and how he fking turns in relation to the player I wouldn't have to play so aggressive

Even then I play Exo Twins fairly aggressive, especially just punishing Artemis hard during Ohio

[crude geode]

thanatos vents opening was the major problem I had on release, since it felt so inconsistent

glad to see it's still being problematic

[frosty trellis]

Yeah

I just play fairly aggressively on Thanatos because generally beside getting hit by the head or gdr it doesn't deal much damage

The openings are pain

[crude geode]

this sugg is very good

[ashen warren]

R

*ye

It's a bit annoying how they just vanish

[small timber]

yeah

tbh I like that if you need to kill sep after hearts are destroyed (so basically hearts only make it invincible), though that is closer to a grand scale rework

[ashen warren]

However you will not kill the true melee meta on hearts as long as they are inanimate

[small timber]

yeah

[crude geode]

true

[small timber]

though at the very least other classes will be more viable against it

[ashen warren]

We changed that in infernum by just removing them so it's not exactly easy to fix

[small timber]

it is just problematic yeah

[crude geode]

make them run away and do small projectiles like the hearts in binding of isaac

[small timber]

it is basically a soft dps check that can randomly have a wall blocking between you and the target

[frosty trellis]

Just make the hearts take less damage from true melee attacks

[short walrus]

I personally would be satisfied with the hearts spawning in somewhat random spots

[small timber]

move the hearts onto sepulcher itself where you do it like destroying destroyer's segments, you hit weak spot and kill the sepulcher once all are destroyed

[short walrus]

Kill a heart and it splits like eow

[eternal escarp]

wow look this was already discussed!

i guess it didnt happen but we did discuss about makimg sepulcher not do this anymore iirc

[trim raptor]

I just did a double take we have the exact same pfp

[frosty trellis]

LOL

[small timber]

they are multiplying

[trim raptor]

More!

[small timber]

since it didnt happen I guess I just keep this for now?

since can also gauge public interest on the idea

[eternal escarp]

ye

[eternal escarp]

(its a good fucking pfp what can i say )

[golden tulip]

did the exo mech sentry suggestion about how painful resummoning is get through

[frozen hornet]

That means no more cool arena decorations

bad bad stinky

[short walrus]

Then give it discrete patterns but randomise which one

Any variety

[small timber]

personally I still would like demon heart to have more ties to sepulcher

currently you have this gigantic worm that is very manacing spawned at the start of the fight, and then you kill some hearts and then the worm just decided that "I guess I will just die" and then disappear

it is so anti-climatic

you dont even have to fight it

[frozen hornet]

That still leaves empty spots somewhere in the arena

[short walrus]

Cope I guess

Calvan has heart lanterns, could use them to fill in the blanks

[crude geode]

Randomizing the pattern doesn’t fix the true melee meta

[cobalt pewter]

make the hearts damage link to Sepulcher

and make the wrom visually more damaged as more hearts died (?)

[radiant meadow]

oh yeah sepulcher

[cobalt pewter]

also

wrom

(I am so tired today)

[radiant meadow]

it was brought up like 3 weeks ago but I guess nobody ever got around to removing that

[cobalt pewter]

real?

[frozen hornet]

Those require solid blocks to hang which is not something you want in an arena

Also they look bad

Oh wait calvab's herat lanterns

[drowsy plank]

lmao i love how the most recent batch of suggs was so mediocre no one talked about them at all after they passed

[cobalt pewter]

true....

[crude geode]

The only one I care about is this

Because it’s kinda just. dumb adding rng

At least the way the sugg words it

[lucid flare]

what's it gon use then

(me when i don't read the suggestion)

[distant gyro]

rock

[lucid flare]

finally, a reason to beat boss rush

(putting torches in the abyss)

[valid spoke]

Railcoining in calamity 😈😈😈

[swift wharf]

#suggestions-voting message shouldn't this be removed

[hollow shell]

I haven't put it in the Dont's yet but I spose I can do that now

aight there we go

[half imp]

Know I'm late but it's not too weak rn in my experience

It's just not used because TPE exists

it's notably better than Eaxe

[frosty trellis]

@half imp

[half imp]

Yeah it's absurd on CV

it is probably even a bit too strong overall

[inner anvil]

No.

[frosty trellis]

Absurd on CV
Wee bit strong on Signus
Fine on the other two

[inner anvil]

I took priority on being fine on Polter, others are nonsense to bother.

[half imp]

ah ok

idk all I know is it got a 7:02 scal

[inner anvil]

Ok.

[half imp]

which is surprisingly good for an early weapon

[inner anvil]

Ok.

[half imp]

And it's dog and polter viable

[frosty trellis]

Also when is Signus becoming not a joke I accidentally nohit him in that test despite me having not fought him since june

[half imp]

lol

[frosty trellis]

DSS is dog viable????

Okay that I have to see

[half imp]

it might be a tad weak

Idr

but it's viable

[inner anvil]

That means we did a good job on the power curve balancing.

[half imp]

It's definitely not as good as Sirius, Warlok, and etc

unfortunately I didn't write down the dog testing times for some reason

so idr what everything got on him for me

[frosty trellis]

I need to redo them anyways

So dw

WMF I remember being kinda fucking cracked though

[inner anvil]

Becuase I forgot to fill all the minion slots.

[half imp]

it's almost as good as TPE on dog lol

i also never tested gamma heart and calamari

at least on dog

Calamari DPS tends to be insane but also insanely inconsistent

[frosty trellis]

Gonna be a bit before I can see for certain bc I need to watch the toddler for a bit

[lucid flare]

does that mean that it's only supposed to fill 1minion slot

[frosty trellis]

No it means memes tested with somewhere between 8 and 12 slots I presume

So only 2 fists instead of 3

[inner anvil]

I tested with 11 slots, so I got only 2 fists, meaning 3 slots were missing, and I thought I could do the math on my head, it didn't work.

[frosty trellis]

Yeah

And this is why I use papyrus Scarab in the last slot

Wings/Aegis/BFC/Deific/Star-Tained/Curse/Papyrus

[inner anvil]

And that's why I trust nobody on CalMain.

[frosty trellis]

Huh?

Scarab is 1 slot + 15% damage

It's amazing

[small timber]

Does scarab stack?

[frosty trellis]

Yep

It does with Statis's blessing and curse

And nucleo

[small timber]

Oh so there are still something that stack, since nucleo banned a lot of downgrade stacking

[frosty trellis]

Statis's Blessing doesn't have the "doesn't stacks with it's downgrades" thing

So yeah

Curse can't be used with blessing, nucleo can't be used with blessing or curse

Or Star-Tained

But Papayrus Scarab is still fine

[small timber]

That seems like an oversight tbh

[frosty trellis]

I use that since I have 11 slots so ESA isn't necessary

[small timber]

But ya, at the very least there is option as otherwise you must esa

Though tbh it is not too bad, whispering death immunity still

[frosty trellis]

I prefer to have the exact amount of slots necessary

And to not have to use my 3rd offensive slot on a minion slots thing

But with some tiers that's not feasible

Need Scarab for pre polter tier for cosmolamp so you can get 12 slots for 6 of them

[small timber]

Usually when you have 1 slot you slap the sirius/sun god staff line since those are generally the best 1 slot minion, but ya for testing it is forbidden

[frosty trellis]

Yeah

Also summon mixing is forbidden

And that can break summoner sometimes

3 Kindles on SCal is 4:3x rn, while 2 kindles 5 mechworm is 4:0x, f.e.

Also mechworm is like 5:1x on SCal and it's hilarious

[swift wharf]

All weapons are viable

Unless the boss outheals you somehow

[drowsy plank]

copper shortsword

[frosty trellis]

@half imp @inner anvil This is on the slower side bc for some reason I keep lossing my stabbers mid fight despite having 5 open buff slots after the dog gravity debuff (I have the same issue with subjugators and I hate it and I don't know why bc it sometimes happens and then sometimes doesn't)

If the stabbers didn't desummon 3:1x easy

These things are fucking obsurd for dog

[half imp]

yeah

stabbers are really good

[serene tendon]

"Make Sepulcher (the worm Supreme Calamitas spawns with hearts/at the start of the fight) No Longer Delete Projectiles" Yes please, it's literally the only invincible enemy that does it and it's just annoying

[half imp]

they also performed decent on yharon iirc

[frosty trellis]

Oh god

[half imp]

they're fast enough to keep up easy

[frosty trellis]

Time to test that out for myself

[half imp]

i bet they're half decent on exos, especially ares and thanatos

since their pattern will hit at least 3 ares parts per dash i'd bet

[frosty trellis]

no

[frosty trellis]

Ares felt like I was using Zenith, Thanatos fair

[half imp]

ah ok

[half imp]

did you see what targeting other segments did or was it all bad

on ares

overall seems pretty balanced (for summoner)

[frosty trellis]

I tried mixing it around and just found that one of the bottom turrets was giving me the best dps so stuck with that

[half imp]

ok cool

either way, it's clear they do not need armor pen unless they're gonna be completely rebalanced around that

[frosty trellis]

I mean yeah we confirmed that

[hollow shell]

This was a technical concern iirc

[serene tendon]

So it'd be very hard or impossible to implement?

[hollow shell]

At the time, that was the case, yeah
But things may be different with modern technology

[serene tendon]

ok

[grim tusk]

Old power cell is non consumable tho

Maybe we could turn into an item that requires a bunch of cells (which you’d get in chests) to craft and make them into a Cellular Reactor or idk that you can place and summon Golem infinitely on

That idea may be too out of scope tho

[hollow shell]

We'll think of something

(if this passes)

[drowsy plank]

you could just
make power cell non-consumable

and also let it summon golem if you left click with it, instead of only working by right clicking on the altar

idk how hard that would be, but ive seen the team do a lot with vanilla overrides, and i assume the fact that the mod previously was not as adept at overriding vanilla code was the only real reason this item existed in the first place

[serene tendon]

That's why I suggested giving it a recipe. As Cognitive Afflatus said, it could be made non-consumable, but due to how they spawn in chests and from enemies, and how they wouldn't stack were they to become non-consumable, they'd just take up space. I personally like the idea of a reactor-type thing, perhaps it could be made with 5 power cells and the current altar?

[bright crag]

That's really good for a post-Prov weapon

[grim tusk]

Lets see killtime is 4 mins, for a pre-DoG weapon (excluding OD drops) to do under 5:30 its too fast. AND THAT SHIT IS POST-PROVIDENCE

[frosty trellis]

And the funny part is, it's perfectly fine for polter and weaver
Idk why Yharon takes so much. Silva crystal probably helps

[grim tusk]

Maybe its transition phases?

[frosty trellis]

Maybe
Should I test a different post prov weapon on Yharon and see how that would compare? And if so, which one would be the best test subject?

Preferably summoner to keep it consistent

[grim tusk]

Test anything post-Polter and post-DoG

Do pre-Polt if you want

[frosty trellis]

Okay well I'm going to avoid terror blade for obvious reasons-

[grim tusk]

Just do summoner

[frosty trellis]

Since single minion, Virid Vangard for another pre polter summon, for post polter probably just subjugators

And then corvid harbringers for post dog

[drowsy plank]

yharon when he gets his dazzling sabers resistance:

[cobalt pewter]

considering the other 2 examples of altar-based bosses still use consumable source with a separate non-consumable item (titan hearts / starcore and ashes of calamity / ceremonial urn), there might still be that technical limitations

esp since this is concerning vanilla

[drowsy plank]

it's weird that the non-consumable is available at the same time too

maybe we could just get a super power cell post golem

i think that'd make a lot more sense anyway

@soft grove i think this is a good idea but u gotta focus more on the "why" than the "what", i think

[soft grove]

I'll edit an elaborate a bit :)

Thanks for the feedback!

[drowsy plank]

yeah np

worried it might be straying a bit too much into SiS territory, so focusing more on why station buffs are important could be a big plus

[frosty trellis]

Virid Vanguard first (Pre Polter)
Then Gamma Heart (Post Polter)
Then Corvid for a baseline (Post DoG)

[grim tusk]

:plumg:

[soft grove]

Yeah I was gonna add some more detail but scrapped it haha, didn't wanna make that mistake

[grim tusk]

@inner anvil so summoner is busted, how about we remove a minion slot from DSR?

[frosty trellis]

LOL

[drowsy plank]

good choice

also oml this is why we need a balancing chat on god

[frosty trellis]

I mean if you removed the slots from DSR GSA would become a literal glass cannon item

Also then people would just use ESA a lot more and I remember people saying the wanted to kill the minion slots on that from 2 to 1 despite that making it literally worse necromantic scroll

[drowsy plank]

eldritch soul artifact just needs a rework in general

[frosty trellis]

Fair

[soft grove]

ESA seems weirdly bad for its tier

At least if ur not a summoner

[blazing kettle]

just bring back future bosses, what could possibly go wrong?

[frosty trellis]

Oh boy if you think those ss's say summoner is broken wait until you get into minion mixing

[cobalt pewter]

ESA should just be a pml luxor's upgrade

instead of being this weird multiclass stat stick

[crude geode]

ESA should just be a mage accessory

[cobalt pewter]

that is fair too

anything but current

[crude geode]

asking for another Luxor’s is asking for a fucking balancing headache

[frosty trellis]

Dragonblood + void concentration + 3 DSS

[soft grove]

Haven't played in a little while, how good is it rn? I recall it being busted awhile back

[frosty trellis]

It's a balancing headache currently

[inner anvil]

I suggested removing all of them and nobody listened.

[frosty trellis]

It's not rly viable in hm but can do stupid things in phm

[inner anvil]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[frosty trellis]

Removing all of them as in the slots from DSR AND ESA?

[soft grove]

The magic bonus...

[inner anvil]

The fuck is ESA?

[crude geode]

A bad accessory

[frosty trellis]

Eldritch Soul Artifact

[inner anvil]

The community makes too many fucking acronyms.

[crude geode]

TRUE

BASED

[frosty trellis]

A bad accessory for everything except summoner bc it has 2 slots on it

[inner anvil]

Then yeah, sure.

I encourage that.

[frosty trellis]

I would suggest it but no way in hell would it get through voting

[inner anvil]

Well, I can.

[frosty trellis]

Problem then is there would be basically nucleo genesis and then your next best summoner accessory is papyrus scarab

Which is sad

Also means kindles would be a nightmare to rebalance I presume

[inner anvil]

Listen, I don't know why Papyrus Scarab is still stackable.

Probably a bug.

[frosty trellis]

It's not

[inner anvil]

It's not stackable?

Then why the fuck are you using it?

[frosty trellis]

No I'm saying it's not a bug unless just the tooltips are saying otherwise

[inner anvil]

Whatever it is, it's unnacceptable.

[frosty trellis]

Curse says it does not stack with it's downgrades

Blessing does not say that

Hence why it's not a bug

And probably just an oversight

So there is an issue with removing the slots from DSR and ESA and making scarab and necro scroll not stackable and all of that though:
Nucleo Genesis is 4 slots and 15% minion damage
Statis's Curse and Star Tainted Generator together is 5 slots and 17% minion damage

You don't have anything like Scarab, DSR or ESA anymore, so why upgrade to nucleo genesis?
Those two together give more slots and more damage
Not like you would have much else taking up that slot anymore

You see what I mean memes?

[frosty trellis]

@grim tusk @inner anvil That make sense to you two?

[inner anvil]

I don't care to be honest.

[frosty trellis]

I mean it just seems weird to me

That the pre-upgrades would just be outright better in that senario

Then the upgrade

[inner anvil]

We nerf them, easy.

[frosty trellis]

Ic

Summoner just getting a full rebalance again at this rate

[inner anvil]

Not really.

In fact, no.

[frosty trellis]

Wdym

[radiant meadow]

because making vanilla stuff not stack and stuff is annoying

possible but more work than what feels necessary

[frosty trellis]

So just take the slots off of DSR and ESA, nerf Star-tainted and or statis's curse, and then it's nucleo + papyrus scarab for summoner post dog then instead of DSR? And then you can't just stack DSR with ESA or Scarab (or both)?

[inner anvil]

Why would we nerf Star-Tained and Statis' Curse? Nah bro.

[frosty trellis]

You literally just said-

[inner anvil]

We nerf Papyrus Scarab.

I meant there.

[frosty trellis]

Ah

Scarab is 15%, necro scroll is 10% + 1 slot on each
So yeah

[inner anvil]

They should just be not stackable...

[frosty trellis]

Which makes sense

Although still confused on why one of star tained or curse wouldn't be nerfed if both of them together is better than nucleo and all the other slot stuff is gone or can't stack anymore

[inner anvil]

IDK I'll see.

[frosty trellis]

👍

[crude geode]

The solution to every balance discussion in this chat

[frosty trellis]

LOL

[grim tusk]

@soft grove cull down the specific stuff and it would be cool reasoning

[radiant meadow]

(we're all very tired)

I'll scream if a gamebreaking bug waltzes into #bugs-read-pins

[grim tusk]

10 shots from the deletion gun /j

[frosty trellis]

Which is fair

Y'all have been working your asses off this year

[drowsy plank]

this but not a joke

[grim tusk]

spectre rifle, exo box speed up key and coldheart

[frosty trellis]

GP's beloved coldheart the balancing nightmare icicle

[hollow shell]

Alright the specificity in the candle sugg is questionable but
it is a good ratio of examples to reasoning. Most of the suggestion is explaining why it's a good idea, rather than specific proposals

So I think it is fine

[drowsy plank]

yeah lmao it's really on the boarder

and this is even assuming the devs actually like it if it even passes voting lmaooooooo

[soft grove]

Even more? I want a green candle tho

[grim tusk]

green paint

[drowsy plank]

just say u want a green candle instead of specifying what it does then

also that

lmao

[grim tusk]

Ye

[drowsy plank]

the candles do actually look very nice painted, ive used em as such a few times

[hollow shell]

pff

[drowsy plank]

my man said he wanted a green candle, so mention u want a green candle 'stead of specifying what it does. it DOES make it more rule complicit and all

[soft grove]

I was mostly kidding haha, I was more interested in the actual function of it being a passive buff furniture item

[grim tusk]

Looks good

[lucid flare]

tbf green candle would be swag

especially it u replace the purple one for it

then they resemble the 4 lunar fragments!

[crude geode]

@dapper coral future content sugg

[dapper coral]

oh is this something thats guaranteed to happen

[crude geode]

No it’s just using the logic of 1.4.4 which is a don’t

[dapper coral]

oh i see

@frosty matrix see above, you can't use future updates as a reasoning for a sugg

you should check the donts doc in the pins if you havent already, as well

[soft grove]

:D

[cobalt pewter]

@ashen warren no boss suggs

[ashen warren]

ok

[devout shell]

I mean he did kinda just say “similar to the ones introduced in 1.4.4”

And tbh it would be nice to have more solutions

[drowsy plank]

just wait til the port drops at least

and future content is still a dont

[lethal prism]

I call it the fogbound

[frail mantle]

@frozen beacon nah

no need

the mod is cutting down on having fifteen thousand methods of anticheese to counter fifteen thousand niche strategies

if you want to invalidate the boss and not go through the proper experience then eh

your problem

[distant gyro]

terraria has a metric bucket load of cheese options

[frail mantle]

doesn't mean we need to go out of our way to fuck over whatever strategy you used

[small timber]

I can see it being a death mode change, other than that ya those are being intentionally removed

tbh it is ironic that vanilla becomes the precedent for boss-only change now with what they did to shimmer

[frozen beacon]

Understood

[crude geode]

They kinda set it earlier with pylons

[serene tendon]

The funny part is sometimes the boss fight is more fun imo when using the "cheese strat", an example being Gravitation Potions on the Destroyer.

[swift wharf]

that's because it is not a cheese

[drowsy plank]

that's bc destroyer is a bad boss :)

[swift wharf]

[small timber]

@outer crane your suggestion do not even align with what your suggestion reasoning is, your suggestion ask for class that have little exo weapons to have more weapons; but instead your reasoning goes to be that classes that already have many exo weapons just didn't have the specific one you want therefore you want more

[outer crane]

sorry

[small timber]

but ya besides that, soon™️ they will be added

I think

[outer crane]

thanks ill edit that

[small timber]

(so basically I dont think you really need to suggest that, since they will slowly get added iirc)

[outer crane]

edited it

but i may delete it

[distant gyro]

@outer crane
https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Atlas_Munitions_Beacon

[outer crane]

i know

there are still exo weapons for those classes

[distant gyro]

exo weapons are mostly completed

[outer crane]

ah

[distant gyro]

except I think melee and summoner both each have 1 planned

[outer crane]

ah kk

i just want exo weapons for the majority of weapon types

welp i deleted it

[distant gyro]

that's usually never happening

most of the value are spent on classes as a whole rather than specific weapon types, especially if they lack branching differences

it's also why there's so many weapons in the mod that end up in the "other" category

[outer crane]

fair enough

[lucid flare]

.......by "exo weapon" do you mean exo mech drops or miracle matter

[distant gyro]

exo as in exoblade

[lucid flare]

so miracle matter weapons

[outer crane]

yes

[small timber]

@rigid cargo add a title that is separated from the explanation of your suggestion then it is fine I think?

Though while many vanity item can be just vanity, I am not sure how this one will work

Since those waters that you leave behind DO have effect, they are not cosmetic

With the suggestion they will just randomly have no effect? What if for example multiplayer and many people use ambergis then some water will have effect while others dont

It will be confusing

[golden tulip]

that is an oddly specific situation that honestly isnt that big of a deal

[swift wharf]

lacks formatting but looks straightforward

would be pretty much like rover drive

[keen zodiac]

[drowsy plank]

or we could just get rid of the wof evil spawning V and make the generation make more sense instead
also on that topic why does steampunker require being in a biome to get that solution
seems really annoying for cases like this where your evil biomes just Don't generate properly

plus she's post-Mechs again

is just weird

[novel belfry]

or even just move astral infection into post-moonlord <--yeah that will never happen

[hollow shell]

Astral Infection solution gets sold by her at night anywhere
so that you can make an artificial one in the case that gen fails

so

If the infection itself is causing significant biome overwrites, we can do the same for those unfortunate biomes

Though we would probably want it to be pre-mech eh?

We could add a new non-Hallowed recipe for Holy Water

[hot zephyr]

you can turn desert torches into pearlsand in 1.4.4 apparently

[hollow shell]

Via shimmer "uncrafting"? Is it like a 1/4 chance?

[frosty trellis]

Not anymore
All torches turn into Aether torches

[hot zephyr]

Damm :(

[frosty trellis]

1.4.4.5 addition

No more phm hallowed

[hollow shell]

Zad

[drowsy plank]

how would that have even worked

desert torches would always give back normal sand

[versed cape]

That avenger emblem suggestion is uhhh

Yeah

[worthy lintel]

removing vanilla stuff aint hard, the issue is that it would set a horrible precedent

also serves as a component for stuff

[drowsy plank]

i mean it serves as a component for

one thing

since cal removed the other two

actually wait is it still in sand shark

oh it is still in that at least

[worthy lintel]

byea its mostly the precedent factor that is a concern

i agree its dogshit but its the way it is