suggestions-discussion

[grim tusk]

Partially doing

You are just telling me whats broken

Which doesnt take long

[frosty trellis]

I mean I have 3 ways I need to test these things so it definitely takes some time but yeah fair

I can just give you some pdfs about all of it afterwards with the setups included

And I was mainly referencing the treasure hunt thing when I said I was doing Yharon for you in that regard LOL

I can't actually balance it

@grim tusk Any reason why Venerated Locket doesn't work with Hypothermia spam?

[rotund tree]

you mean just the "summons a copy of the projectile from the sky", right ?

cuz that works for me

[grim tusk]

Hypothermia throws several small projectiles per shot. Venerated locket will only throw one

Its the same for other “throws multiple projectiles per shot” items

So with Hypothermia, EE would be a better pick due to the sheer amount of projectiles

[frosty trellis]

Aight, will retest hypo with EE then

[grim tusk]

(Also check glove of recklessness)

[frosty trellis]

I will
EE was 7 seconds slower than locket btw

[grim tusk]

Locket is back and I didnt have to touch it

[frosty trellis]

LOL

[grim tusk]

Also nice to see EE is still good despite that CHONK of a nerf

[radiant meadow]

locket is an awful item

[frosty trellis]

(Just gonna give you all the spam data bc Hypothermia was the last weapon on my list)

[radiant meadow]

the copy mechanic is so scuffed

[frosty trellis]

It's cool though

[grim tusk]

You were abusing Nanotech’s stack right?

[frosty trellis]

Nanotech's stack?

Oh the raiders tailsman thing with it

No just pure spam

[grim tusk]

Well shit

[frosty trellis]

Was going to do that with a different set of tests

Since that's more of a mixed rogue thing

[grim tusk]

Also that Glove of recklessness test

[frosty trellis]

🤷‍♂️

It's good with hypo

[grim tusk]

Too good

Maybe check other shit?

[frosty trellis]

I'll try executioners blade with it

Since that's a very fast spam weapon

[grim tusk]

Altho i can see why the synergy with those would be stronger than the projectile ones (esp since EE got gutted)

[frosty trellis]

Yeah

I'll double check exe blade since I don't think any of the others would be impacted nearly as much by it

[frosty trellis]

Executioners blade is dear god

[long ridge]

Damn

[grim tusk]

Gutting that shit after dealing with pre-Golem tier

[frosty trellis]

Yeah executioners blade spam needs to die fast

Fair enough

Wondering how tf it went from 2nd worst weapon to best

[grim tusk]

People using Ichor with fast weapons
(Since cursed flames ded)

[long ridge]

Thats god's paranoia stealth level of broken

[frosty trellis]

True

[grim tusk]

And maybe I overbuffed Glove of recklessness?

[frosty trellis]

Possibly

Shall I go onto stealth then or do you want me to do nanotech mixed stealth + spam?

[grim tusk]

You may pick the order

[frosty trellis]

I'll go pure stealth then

[bright crag]

Starting to question my decisions

Has any deletion suggestion been accepted...?

[drowsy plank]

uh

hm

im not sure actually?

plasma rifle def deserves it but i see what you mean

[frosty trellis]

@grim tusk Stealth done
Also why does rogue have a glorified yoyo?

[grim tusk]

Penumbra?

More like clicker class

[frosty trellis]

LOL

True

[grim tusk]

Also where are silent reforges?

[frosty trellis]

I just think of it like Stream Gouge: A glorified Yoyo

No

I just tend to go menacing for consistency

Should I be using silent to test stealth?

[grim tusk]

Yes, first check that with 2 silent you dont fill the meter in 2 seconds

If it didnt, get the third

[frosty trellis]

2 seconds while standing still or moving?

Bc if standing still then it's already very close to if not 2 seconds no silent wth emirror and nanotech alone

(Using the clock in game to help track that)

[frosty trellis]

Non-moving is like 1 and a half
Moving around 2 and a half
Moving or non-moving? I am going to presume moving but want to double check

[grim tusk]

Moving, you’re fine and get the third silent

[frosty trellis]

Kk

[cobalt pewter]

I already found something rogue related that's already classified as a bug

not gonna drop it here, imma just let people find out through changelogs when it's fixed

[crude geode]

As it should be

fuckin YouTubers

[crude geode]

I wanna make a suggestion about deleting superball bullets, they feel kinda weird considering they're now an insta upgrade

at least in most instances, considering meteor is post evil boss now

Like sure there's the notable difference of more pierce/bounce but it doesn't feel very unique, and the fact that they're available at exactly the same tier kinda exposes this fact more. Then again you could say this about most bullets...

[distant gyro]

this but also acceleration round

[crude geode]

acceleration are also blegh

so many bullets in cal are extremely unoriginal

God I love Enhanced Nano Rounds and how it's an insta upgrade instead of just. modifying vanilla.

[hollow shell]

It was from a different time

when modifying vanilla was, impossible I guess

[crude geode]

so much of ranger's bullets/arrows in cal just feel like. generic debuff or copying vanilla's homework

[ruby plover]

i feel like enhanced nano rounds could definitely be reworked now that normal nano rounds have an actual gimmick to em

expanding on the smart bounce idea, or something

[crude geode]

"expanding" on an idea might be the idea behind like. half of cal's bullets/arrows and it just feels. idk generic

after the ark line rework I've become more critical of cal's like everything tho

[ruby plover]

terra bullets could be changed

i mean like

i dont know how to rework these things but
i think taking a look at all of cal's ammo wouldnt hurt

vanquisher arrows are also really weird, the phantom arrows are basically inconsequential, its another one of those "ill use it cos it has the highest base damage" arrows

i guess it does travel straight and go through walls, though

[crude geode]

that just sounds like luminite arrows

Napalm Arrows are prolly cal's most original arrows tbfh

[cobalt pewter]

nano stuff in general needs a rework in cal imo

the stuff with actual gimmicks can stay

(like the ammos)

but the shit like flasks 💀

[small timber]

tbh I will rather bullets just stay ununique (or rather, not impactful, such as the case of vanquisher phantom arrow) and just make weapons have unique property instead

because at the end of the day having bullets being the main focus of the weapon just means every weapon perform the same except for weapon damage and attack speed

[radiant meadow]

cuz the phantom arrows got nerfed to hell and back and to hell again

[ruby plover]

ah, heh

[small timber]

things like luminite arrow overshadowing many wooden arrow convert is just a case of ammos being too powerful

[radiant meadow]

and then back again for good measure

[ruby plover]

i forgot that existed????

[crude geode]

isn't that more the damage of the projectile mattering more than the weapon's damage

[ruby plover]

isnt that a.... confusion flask

[crude geode]

yes

[ruby plover]

god,,,,

[radiant meadow]

yes!

flask of nanites

[small timber]

luminite arrow basically make a 2nd attack on a delay

on a slow boss (or whenever the boss stay static for a moment), it is about equivalent to double damage

if cal didn't change luminite arrow damage, which is why it is so busted

(+ it has infinite piercing, for some reason)

[crude geode]

prolly bc post game in vanilla

[ruby plover]

i dont think it has infinite piercing

not from memory

they pierce 3 enemies

[small timber]

ok it is pierce 3 times not infinite

but ya on non-worm it is more than enough

[ruby plover]

yup

the arrows do have diminishing returns, but its practically non existent

[small timber]

I think god slayer slug also have a delayed attack like this which is why it is so good

[ruby plover]

the damage is reduced by 4% per pierce... but since it only pierces thrice...

[small timber]

but ya, these are just the case of bullets performing way too well to the point of overshadowing the weapon convert (like alluvion is just straight up better on luminite and vanquisher than its wooden sharknado arrow)

which is why imo I will rather ammos just have less impact, even at the expense of uniqueness

just make weapons themselves unique

[crude geode]

I mean this sounds more like the problem venerated locket exposes constantly tbfh

[cobalt pewter]

I already said ammo shouldn't have damage in the first place, it limits ranged gameplay that doesn't convert ammo and is annoying as hell to balance

[crude geode]

tbh this is the root problem over everything

[small timber]

it is too hard to balance weapon on no-ammo damage now

[ruby plover]

ammo is gonna be hard to balance regardless of if it has base damage or not

[small timber]

and another problem is that will basically make it pointless to upgrade ammo on most weapon, just stick with musket ball

and things like p90 (and megashark even) will straight up become useless, since do you balance it around the highest base damage bullet at the tier or musket ball

[crude geode]

[cobalt pewter]

ammo should stay as a variety (with some damage changes to account for such changes, like reduced dmg with chloro bullets to account for homing), then put more power into the actual guns

[small timber]

ideal is make ammo upgrades (or rather later tier of ammo) have less base damage increase compare to previous tier, therefore you dont instantly deal 10x more damage as soon as you use the next tier of ammo with higher base damage

[cobalt pewter]

it has always been odd that

ranger weapons get super messy with progression and balance with the inclusion of ammo damage

[ruby plover]

there should ideally be weapons that thrive more on certain ammunitions, based on the weapon's function

[crude geode]

^^^^^^^^^^

[ruby plover]

gun that fire fast
ichor and cursed flame nope

[crude geode]

fundamentally disagree tbh, which probably the problem with this convo

bullets/arrows matter a lot in vanilla, and while I think it's fine to make some weapons unique, combining different ammunition together would add more complexity to ranged instead of just using the most recent ammunition because it has the highest damage

[small timber]

to me if ammo matters even more, then many weapons turn functionally the same; you just choose weapon based on the damage and attack speed it has rather than the unique property of the weapon

tldr everything just become megashark

if this weapon shoot more bullets = good because it scales with the ammo more

[drowsy plank]

everything turns into ore bows or they override the arrow function

because you dont use the weapon because the weapon is unique and strong, you use it because it's the highest numbered thing to shoot your powerful ammo out of

you cannot have both

vanilla is already scraping the bottom of the barrel to try and give bows more of an identity between themselves

guns are basically the same

most being "shoot bullet/arrow but ALSO"

stormbow was a start but it ended up being so fuckin busted i feel like they got scared of doing more unique things. and then eventide and blood rain bow just. convert

which is what i said earlier

[unborn siren]

eventide only completely converts wooden arrows iirc

[drowsy plank]

it actually converts 1 if using other arrows, and fires the other 4 normally

[unborn siren]

I would make ammo less based on dps and more based on special effects, unless the effect is enough to warrant a dps increase/decrease

so fast firing weapons couldn't scale as much with high damage ammo

ofc things like chlorophyte would need less dps to balance out their amazing homing

well some ammo should be objectively weaker, mainly the pre hm stuff

[drowsy plank]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

there's just no winning here

you either get a bunch of funny ammo launchers or a bunch of worthless ammos

[novel belfry]

This is where I would randomly come in out of nowhere, suggest a FFXIV inspired mechanic for arrows, then get told I should make that into its own mod

[frosty trellis]

LOL

SIS moment

[cobalt pewter]

🤓

[crude geode]

truly

[safe oasis]

you are literally Feedza#7021

[cobalt pewter]

the fuck does that mean brother

[crude geode]

^

[cobalt pewter]

anyways yeah ammo is very funny

[novel belfry]

Joking aside, I recall one actual sugg that suggested ammo should instead modify the damage values of the main weapon instead of having its own damage values

That might actually be somewhat interesting

It is admittedly a very bold one, but it did catch my eye

[ruby plover]

that sounds like it would solve nothing

and make low base damage weapons even worse

[novel belfry]

On hindsight yeah

It’s not my sugg btw

[crude geode]

truly

[novel belfry]

But in a nutshell, ammo is inherently stupidly hard to balance around

[crude geode]

it's the one thing people point to in order to differentiate mage and ranged but also hhhhhhh

[novel belfry]

It would take a full on rework to make it interesting

[crude geode]

I hate class identities remove class damage tags

[frosty trellis]

Luminite Arrow moment

[novel belfry]

Make more multi class armors or stuff

[versed cape]

Based

I support abolishing the class system and giving players true freedom

[cobalt pewter]

that's way too big to be done in any mod

probably a Terraria 2 idea

[novel belfry]

Terraria 2 moment

[cobalt pewter]

true true

[frosty trellis]

Hopefully in terraria 2 Luminite Arrows Are Not The Most Stupid Thing To Ever Exist

[cobalt pewter]

who knows, there might be no luminite anything in T2

[frosty trellis]

PLEASE

GET RID OF THAT EFFECT OR JUST MAKE IT LESS BROKEN

[radiant meadow]

we have considered making all ammo have 0 damage in the past but that has bad crossmod interactions

[frosty trellis]

Just make luminite arrows not stupid and it's mostly fine in terms of damage

Like look at this bs
These have wooden arrow convert mechanics

[novel belfry]

Thats probably the single BIGGEST thing preventing total reworks

[cobalt pewter]

fair enough

[radiant meadow]

I'm too busy sending Seraphim into purgatory to deal with Luminite Arrows tbh

[novel belfry]

Excuse me what

[frosty trellis]

Seraphim spam Is A Bit Too Powerful tbf

So I don't blame yea

Fucking 4 minute exos time

For a 6 minute fight

[radiant meadow]

seraphim purgatory

[cobalt pewter]

what

what

[frosty trellis]

HUH

[cobalt pewter]

is Seraphim really the problem on anything else but Thanatos tbh

[frosty trellis]

WHAT

WHY

[radiant meadow]

run

[cobalt pewter]

(Thanatos is ass)

[frosty trellis]

Seraphim does A Fair Bit to Ares and is decent for exo twins

Specifically spam

Stealth seraphim is ass

[keen zodiac]

rare?? malachite, leonid progenitor, shattered sun, gilded dagger, acidic rain barrel, crystalline, spent fuel container, totality breakers, mycoroot are all spammable

[cobalt pewter]

the entire Crystalline line is very spammable

all the way to Seraphim

[keen zodiac]

i forgor

but radiant star isn't that good, spammable or not

[cobalt pewter]

the real gameplay is hybrid now :cluel

[small timber]

another problem I noticed is in Rev DoG post-phase 2 big laser wall before teleporting DoG have a short frame where it deal contact damage, not sure if fixed yet

[untold pagoda]

yknow i never realized done is a donor

[small timber]

yeah

[small timber]

yeah it still exist

[untold pagoda]

honestly thats a great idea

especially since debuff builds are busted for earlygame

and debuffs are cool

[cobalt pewter]

they did plan to add debuff vulnerability icons to bestiary in the future

but it only helps if you already knew the system in the first place

so yea

[golden tulip]

dog has got to be the most suggestioned boss

[crude geode]

Considering he’s kinda the face of cal it’s hard for him not to be

[unique vector]

its also bc his design is the most controversial out of the major pml bosses

afaik

well, outside of exos probably

but dog has been around for much longer and has gotten many different changes

[golden tulip]

i wonder if post resprite dog will be as controversial

[cobalt pewter]

depends if it gets a rework alongside a resprite

which hasn't been confirmed yet (?)

[golden tulip]

im just waiting for polter re-sprite and work

[swift wharf]

waiting for the day polter becomes a difficulty boss

[golden tulip]

and he still keeps being nerfed

[swift wharf]

[stable kiln]

im a fan of the design, probably a bigger one than most people

but that in particular i feel like is just a call for cheap shots

[grim tusk]

All weapons are spammable lmao esp with GoR buff

[grim tusk]

In hardmode they are also strong

Mythril knives

Speedrun server’s opinion on it (i got em to try em)

[neat linden]

Debuff builds are busted

That's it

If you just focus on them you get actually darn insane results

[drowsy plank]

magma stone + slime god weapons funny
i hope cal either reverts the obsidian skull changes or gives magma stone an alternative upgrade line

wait wtf they left magma charm in. so now molten skull and magma charm are identical

why

[grim tusk]

Hellfire treads even better

[drowsy plank]

tru

[grim tusk]

(All attacks, boosts fire DoT by 1.5)

[cobalt pewter]

I feel like suggesting to give dmode Destroyer something more interesting than giga chungus size

it literally brought my game to 1fps when hitting

rev doesn't do that

[small timber]

I still wonder why does hellfire treads give everything inflict hellfire meanwhile void of extinction is melee only

it has no ties to melee other than the fact that it use magma stone, but the point of the accessory is literally that it is all class

[drowsy plank]

bc melee is the special child

[grim tusk]

Actually, now that I think about it. Yes, VoE should give it to all classes

[swift wharf]

friendship with frost/terraspark boots ended

hellfire+fairy boots are my new best friends

[spring saffron]

hellfire treads also look sick on vanity/when dyed

[cobalt pewter]

didn't we have this sugg sometime ago

[drowsy plank]

@jaunty pagoda this is an invalid suggestions and was already shot down by the mods, if you're willing to delete it. we're sooner to have all of these types of configurations removed from the game entirely than to get another implemented, so it's probably for the best to just end the conversation here.

[swift wharf]

[jaunty pagoda]

Why would they remove configuration options though

[drowsy plank]

because they're bloat with no real purpose

if people want the game to be arbitrarily harder, they can just use external mods

[jaunty pagoda]

Is there any external mods that actually are able to modify stats of modded bosses

The highest possible difficulty possible in multiplayer is just death mode because calamity really doesnt like multiplayer

[drowsy plank]

yeah i guess

im pretty sure fargo's master (tho this was from the tmod beta so idk if it's supported anymore) just does a flat x3 health x2 damage to all enemies on top of all other changes. there really aren't a lot of options i guess, but regardless, calamity has no intentions of implementing anything of the sort

[jaunty pagoda]

Some things just dont work with a global increase

[drowsy plank]

it's... global. everything works with it because it doesn't differentiate

[upbeat yacht]

@grim tusk post-skele spam rogue

basically
buff shinobi blade
nerf everything else, besides lionfish

[grim tusk]

Glaive spam and stealth strikes should be flipped tbh

Why is glaive stealth the boring boomerang and spam is MOAR glaives

[upbeat yacht]

true...

[grim tusk]

@cobalt pewter mention sparkle slime balloon there too

[lucid flare]

when the early hardmode weapon inflicts god slayer inferno

[drowsy plank]

how was this supposed to be balanced in any capacity

does this stack with things like slimed/oiled...

oh it does

hm

[radiant meadow]

oiled is slightly nerfed next calamity update

mythril knife was also A. me running out of ideas B. well before the advent of the debuff system

I believe mythril knife SS was created during the time when bosses were immune to like most debuffs

On top of the vanilla debuffs being weaker (as they were buffed in 1.4+)

oh, I thought it inflicted more debuffs

I guess it got toned down lol

[grim tusk]

It lost debuffs since debuff cap made it not inflict GSI consistently

So it was actually a buff to it

Cuz it was shit

[radiant meadow]

I'm changing it to inflict irradiated, poison, and venom

[grim tusk]

Sulphuric poisoning

:)

[radiant meadow]

begone

fiend

[grim tusk]

Or like just fucking rework that item

Should be closer to the other ore weapons

Not this abomination

[frosty trellis]

@grim tusk Redid Yharon rogue stealth and why is Silent so bad/made no difference for most things and improved like two weapons (Plasma grenade improvement was more so because I could aim now)

[golden tulip]

is reworking debuffs too broad a suggestion

i dont like how 90% of debuffs are just different kinds of DoT effects

[drowsy plank]

didnt we kill serveral unique effects of debuffs

further more like

what else do you do with them

we've covered most bases with debuffs already; damage/reduce regen, reduce defense, reduce DR, reduce movement speed/stun

[swift wharf]

more of moved them

like removing DR from cursed inferno and putting it in crumbling

[drowsy plank]

im talking like

irradiated just becoming DoT

[swift wharf]

oh yeah truee

[drowsy plank]

we have shred and blood butchered for stacking debuffs

[swift wharf]

did irradiated lose the other player stats?

[drowsy plank]

the only think i could think of is some kind of AoE debuff?

and yes it did

[swift wharf]

oh lo

tbf irradiated just fucking sucks
with or without the other stats

[drowsy plank]

yes! this is why rusty medallion is the worst item in the game

anyway the only possible innovation i could think of on debuffs is some kind of spreadable debuff (enemies that touch each other spread plague?), turning confused into something like pvz hypnoshroom (enemies can damage each other, bees already do this in vanilla), or hitting an enemy with a debuff makes that enemy emit a field that could damage other enemies

otherwise like. i dunno what "reworking" you could even do that cal doesnt do already

[swift wharf]

Thorium has something with the bees

Honey debuff that makes bees target the enemy

[drowsy plank]

huh

neat

[swift wharf]

Byeah effects like those would be really neat

debuffs that make enemies shoot stuff everywhere are also cool

[drowsy plank]

yeah

i wish slowing debuffs were more useful

like this;
#changelogs message

became a thing and then No One Ever Talked About It Again

[swift wharf]

TIL

[drowsy plank]

GOD

this just proves my point

[grim tusk]

Irradiated boosts sickness debuffs too

[grim tusk]

Web ball got nerfed (now is consistent with the rest of stuns instead of being twice as long as the rest)

[drowsy plank]

oh well that's a plus doesnt help rusty medallion but it's good for the debuff at least lmao

[drowsy plank]

did not even know that was thing cause No One seems to even talk about the mechanic in the first place lmao

[grim tusk]

Web ball before had the best stun in the fucking game, despite being literally the first obtainable one (and pre-boss)

[drowsy plank]

makes sense why it was nerfed

[hollow shell]

I don't even know if the temp stuns are documented on the wiki

[drowsy plank]

they aren't! not from what i can tell

which is weird because i swore that was one of the big things we wanted to make sure they WERE documented when this mechanic was added and it just Wasn't

[hollow shell]

I remember bringing up the temp stuns in a dev convo
I talked about potentially making bosses vulnerable to knockback, and used our new stuns as reference, and they were like "yeah makes sense could do that"

[drowsy plank]

that sounds based as fuck

giving the stuns the ability to remove boss knockback immunity would make them so much more impactful

[frosty trellis]

@grim tusk This Strategy Is Not Good
I did exactly as you told me: Stealth Strike into 4-5 seconds of spam to wear out the raiders talisman bonus
It's bad for everything but eclipse fall but I am tempted to just redo eclipse fall spam just to see if I messed that up

(Also make Plasma Grenades hold more/consume less charge because in the spam test I did I had 8% left and it was a 3 minute fight)

[grim tusk]

Mixed rogue is still on baby steps so that was kinda expected

Its prob not as good as in pre-hm cuz crit is way more effective there

Meanwhile on post-ML you already have high crit

[frosty trellis]

Yeah

The other problem being that raiders talisman is good for phm, ends up obsolete in hm, then you don't get the effect until fking nanotec

[grim tusk]

Yeah

[frosty trellis]

Raiders talisman needs an upgrade line

Something to give it like decaying damage or fire rate

As well as crit

[hot zephyr]

no

[frosty trellis]

?

[hot zephyr]

not everything needs an upgrade line

[grim tusk]

Rotten dogtooth rotting rn

[hot zephyr]

it's my accessory rework and I get to choose the upgrades

[frosty trellis]

I mean if you want mixed rogue to be good then it might need one just to make the mixed rogue thing y'all want viable

LOL

Or yeah raiders can be fused with something

Before Freakin' Nanotec

[grim tusk]

rotten dog tooth, the other “hybrid” acc

[frosty trellis]

And then it's decaying can get some sort of extra effect or something to make it Not Bad

[hot zephyr]

make new hybrid rogue accessories/rework old ones don't just copy and paste raider's talisman

[frosty trellis]

Fair

Can make a new thing of those or rework old ones to make them better then give the effects to nanotech and Hopefully It Becomes Good

Now to see how Rogue holds up against every testers least favorite boss for some reason DoG with the DSD nerf

[grim tusk]

DSD?

Oh Dumbbell?

[grim tusk]

my least favorite boss is Rav

[grim tusk]

Rogue vs OD has several op options

Dumbbell just was the dumbest one

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/583454384290267147/1020476157537300531/image0.jpg

[crude geode]

Based

[tardy smelt]

I like ravager

[frosty trellis]

Was talking DoG not OD but can do both if you want

[grim tusk]

Vs DoG is similar

[frosty trellis]

So just test DoG? Kk. I'm way more comfortable with DoG and just don't like OD because it's Fishron but you have better mobility

[golden tulip]

wdym vs dog is similar

dog is a worm

od isnt

[frosty trellis]

... I should test both shouldn't I?

[drowsy plank]

it's the same as the mech tests for melee

worms and single targets just behave too differently

[golden tulip]

yes

[frosty trellis]

Yeah

Gonna try both then

Will do DoG first because I like fighting DoG more

[crude geode]

Doesn’t this ignore the fact that dog has 92.5% dr on his body

[hollow shell]

holy shit

[cobalt pewter]

wtf.... I just woke up

[crude geode]

Something good from r/Calamity???? Impossible

[frosty trellis]

That was old DSD before it got nuked into oblivion like it should have

[hollow shell]

I did an MP playthrough where I was melee and my friend was rogue

and exactly this happened

It was funny cuz I was melee with long-ranged projectile swords, while they were rogue trying to go in for close-range DSD hits

[frosty trellis]

I mean if you ever do melee again please try and get up close and see the absolute absurdity that is Terror Blade
Not old DSD strong but it's dumb

[hollow shell]

(I am actually doing melee in my current very slow PT cuz of the Ark BB reworks)

[frosty trellis]

Fair enough. Well, you know what to use now for DoG lmaooooo

[ruby plover]

this suggestion was spurred on by (the weapon that shall not be named), i just dont want to see it get overnerfed like toxibow (okay i didnt realise it got buffed in recent patch, so thats good to hear, but still)

irradiated is... near useless
...(unless im remembering wrong, in which case enlighten me)

okay so i just found out a lot of the data i used to make this suggestion is wrong but i still like the idea of it, so, if i can reword it to be better, i might do dat

[cobalt pewter]

god

[grim tusk]

Boosts DoT from sickness debuffs

[ruby plover]

huh, neat

if thats the case im deleting my suggestion :)

[grim tusk]

Also sulphuric poisoning is actually op as shit

[ruby plover]

i know this

1:20 WoF kill with solo RBP

[grim tusk]

Next patch RBP wont inflict that debuff anymore

[ruby plover]

i just thought that it would be nerfed by giving it irradiated instead, which to my (previous) knowledge was a terrible debuff

and that is good to hear lol

[small timber]

I think the problem is more with irridiated by itself still being very bad no?

especially for HM where its entire usage is pretty much just to buff sulphuric poisoning

[radiant meadow]

Irradiated needs to combo with sickness debuffs more

I think the debuff would be better if it went together with sickness debuffs more often

[ruby plover]

how many pre-hm sickness debuffs are there?

is it literally just
irradiated and poison

(im not including sulpoison cos it will be hardmode soon)

[small timber]

poison and irradiated only iirc?

ball of fugu inflict acid venom but that is an outlier

[cobalt pewter]

new phm debuff

common cold

no damage, but synergizes with irradiated for whatever reason

[drowsy plank]

amazing

[ruby plover]

it does????

jesus christ that must be really strong

[drowsy plank]

i thought it was lionfish

[ruby plover]

i do not believe lionfish interacts with the debuff weaknesses system

[small timber]

meanwhile look at water

water debuff amplification my as well call it crush depth amplification

[small timber]

though probably have low damage by itself to account for the debuff

[ruby plover]

oh jeez

[small timber]

full list of debuffs

water and electricity is severely lacking, cold is suffering from having almost no reasonable debuff amp

meanwhile most of the (good) sickness debuffs are locked behind HM where debuffs fall off a lot which just become a situation where only fire debuffs remain relevant

especially with things like slimed, oil, fire ball and cinnamon roll (this 2 boost by 1.25x and 1.5x respectively while evergreen gin boost by 1.25x only)

[lucid flare]

what if i made a suggestion to lower brimstone witch npc health to 960000 for consistency

[ruby plover]

what is it currently?

and to be consistent with what

[lucid flare]

one Million

well when the draedon update dropped, normal mode scal had 1 million HP, and so did the brimstone witch

and when her HP was nerfed her npc form's hp didn't go down with it which bugs ne just a lil bit

[radiant meadow]

oh

right we had the town npc hp super high because it was funny

I can go fix that rn

you don't need to suggest that

[lucid flare]

Lol...

thamks

[frosty trellis]

@grim tusk So we need to talk because

Stealth

Also this weapon is super weird against DoG

It does like 400% less damage in phase 1 and 3 and seems to do fine in phase 2

[grim tusk]

Time bolt is a mess

[frosty trellis]

Yeah tell me about it

Spam is like, meh at best, but then time bolt is super fucked on DoG and I couldn't tell you why

[small timber]

tbh I will rather bosses just not affected by slow

most of the time these effect dont really help the player, they just make bosses completely desync from their attack and do things that are completely unexpected

[ruby plover]

the thing about that is that it will make the slowing effects almost redundant

its kinda weird

[willow widget]

thoughts on drataliornus? i feel like its damage is just so bad currently

[small timber]

things like scal getting freezed and fire vertical hellblast, or duke fishron stay at place because they get slowed mid charge into charging you from unexpected position are just examples

[cold cosmos]

That’s the one that breaks when you get hit, right?

[willow widget]

yes

[cold cosmos]

Terrible

[willow widget]

with a balanced setup, its only doing like 18 - 20k damage (didn't realize i had no hat on 💀 )

[cold cosmos]

Low dps, horrible drawback

Hella slow

[small timber]

I think out of every single slow effect in the game, only tesla potion is useful

and that one most of the time is not for slowing bosses themselves, but the mobs/summons beside them (that for some reason always have incredibly annoying AI)

like leviathan's aquatic aberration, PBG's summons or duke fishron's sharkron from sharknado

when tesla effect accidently hit the bosses themselves it actually more often or not result in you getting hit

[river bridge]

@pastel crow after the buff, dank staff is crazy overtuned, it does more dps than anything up until mid hardmode summons

[small timber]

blood clot are also moon lord viable I heard

[pastel crow]

yep, we know and its already fixed

[river bridge]

is that in an upcoming update?

[pastel crow]

yes

[river bridge]

ok cool

[ruby plover]

yeah, it seemed like much too of a prevalent thing to go unnoticed for long

[cold cosmos]

Well nobody thinks to try blood clots against moon lord

[willow widget]

i did

lmao

oh

i cannot read

[tardy smelt]

I wonder how much people are actually using Blood Clots now that they're supposedly busted

[willow widget]

a lot of people, anyone who's summoner and asks for help for like wall or something, first recommendation lmao

[tardy smelt]

Of course

I heard that RBP is also really strong

[willow widget]

which is that

[tardy smelt]

Rusty Beacon Prototype

[willow widget]

oh, yeah, i hear that debuff is really good

especially when stacked

[small timber]

that debuff is overly good

[pastel crow]

its inflicting a debuff 3 times stronger than acid venom in current version (lul)

[small timber]

for some reason it is inflicting a hardmode debuff that deal like 90 damage per second or something

[tardy smelt]

Sulphuric Poisoning

[ruby plover]

me reference

[inner anvil]

This is what happens when I forget to test a weapon and think it's probably fine.

[ruby plover]

lol

did you not remember toxibow

[tardy smelt]

A debuff that's extremely difficult to inflict for any substantial amount of time until like

Mid post-Moonlord or so

[upbeat yacht]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/959843156386537542.webp?size=48&quality=lossless

oh come on

[ruby plover]

clueless troubles

[grave zinc]

@vocal gust - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[**Make Magic Tome animations feel more unique (similar to Rancor and Heresy) **]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@drowsy plank - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Bring Devil's Sunrise Up to the Same Level of Quality as the Rest of the Mod]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@small timber - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make Flamethrowers More Debuff Centric (or at least make their debuffs more powerful)]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@dry grotto - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[rework boss rush's progression]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[ruby plover]

like that boss rush suggestion is gonna go anywhere

[dry grotto]

True and real

Apparently the devs have been discussing it tho

They wanna do it based on boss checklist but i'll be honest..
I don't think that's enjoyable

[sand ermine]

True

that just sounds
a bit lazy and boring

[cold cosmos]

It should be alphabetically

[small timber]

I am surprised the boss rush suggestion didnt get flagged

[grave zinc]

@dry grotto - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[rework boss rush's progression]

It has been add to the devs' to-do list and planned for implementation!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[ruby plover]

yep, there it is lol

[small timber]

wow what a surprise

[ruby plover]

people suggesting stuff for boss rush not realising its always going to come back with "It has been add to the devs' to-do list and planned for implementation!"

[small timber]

boss rush is just at the bottom of the back log list

[golden tulip]

i hate knowing that stuff will get reworked but also that it is like at least a year away

[hot zephyr]

the entire boss rush tier is kinda fucked and cracking open that can of worms will take ages

a majority of the dev weapons haven't been touched for half a decade and it shows

balancing also takes an eternity

[golden tulip]

when was br implemented?

maybe a 20~ minute event/boss fight is too ambitious

[hot zephyr]

boss rush is ancient

it'll be smoothened out... eventually

[golden tulip]

[hot zephyr]

boss rush will eventually receive a curve flattening akin to what happened in the draedon update; for the sake of time it was elected to skip that tier because burnout was already extremely high and nobody wanted to delay the update even further for what was content that barely anyone actually interacted with

yeah, self fulfilling prophecy is self fulfilling but I don't think anyone regrets the decision

[keen zodiac]

understandable

[hot zephyr]

as for the BR ordering, whether it follows progression or another poll I don't think it really matters

although I feel like things would be easier to understand as a new player if it was in progression order

if I was in charge I'd throw the lower tier bosses in duo fights just to make the thing go faster but I don't think that would fly

[ruby plover]

sound like a good idea, apart from the fact its kinda hard to think of many that would fit as a pair

aside from bosses that are meant to be slightly similar
like the scourges, and the b o n e s;

[hot zephyr]

an additional issue with that tier is the disparity in weapon quality

some of calamity's most creative weapons and simple weapons share a tier, and the juxtaposition is super jarring

[hollow shell]

(It's not as ancient as the dev weapons themselves)

[hot zephyr]

I know, ye

[small timber]

if it is based on poll again there is a high chance the ordering will become super scuffed

[hot zephyr]

but it's safe to say in comparison to both the age and quality standards it's been left in the dust

[small timber]

things like ravager will straight go to tier 1

[hot zephyr]

endgame cryogen endgame cryogen

[small timber]

or worst case scenerio some famous youtuber making meme videos that cause random boss to become the last boss

[hot zephyr]

get ready to start boss rush by having aureus dropped on your head

[frosty trellis]

LOL

[ruby plover]

please no please no please

[sullen swan]

empress of light moves at the speed of light

[jagged fern]

10/10 suggestion

[sullen swan]

im talking about empress of light if it gets added to br

exo mechs in boss rush

[keen zodiac]

providence brings the sun with her in br

[sullen swan]

fr

aew in br

he gets nerfed and you can shred him in 3 seconds now

[dry grotto]

Blushiestaff momentus

[sullen swan]

boss rush is literally 99% calamitases and 1% waiting for worm bosses to unfold

[dry grotto]

True

It's zzz

[sullen swan]

10x hp boss rush is more fun

[dry grotto]

Atleast boss rush music is a bop

[sullen swan]

bosses actually live for a few seconds

[eternal escarp]

i too want to fight a 40 minute boss rush

each timw to balance weapons

[dry grotto]

Honestly sounds like a jammer

[sullen swan]

summoner still makes it 10 mins

[dry grotto]

Also, only 40 minutes so it's doable

[sullen swan]

universe split the entirety of tier 5

[stable kiln]

i wonder who would do this

something @ruby plover something

[sullen swan]

wait did they actually

checking rn

[stable kiln]

yes

i tried it and died to DoG once and then he did it

[dry grotto]

I'd do it if it means making phase 2 music play more

Cause let's be honest. Phase 2 slaps

[ruby plover]

[sage swallow]

am i allowed to post a suggestion solely off "it would make sense for .... to be/have ......"?

[short walrus]

no

read the doc at the top of #suggestions-posting

[sage swallow]

kk

[lucid flare]

tier 5 crabulon

[upbeat yacht]

@frosty trellis check this out (spam rogue, WoF edition)
every post-skele weapon except shinobi blade is under 2mins

truly a moment

[golden tulip]

whats that

[upbeat yacht]

armor penetration

[lucid flare]

name a more iconic duo
(shark tooth necklace - belladonna spirit staff)

[lucid flare]

i think this one specifically is called the...... bee stinger necklace??????????

[upbeat yacht]

stinger necklace

[distant gyro]

stinger necklace bees proccing iframes

[lucid flare]

[upbeat yacht]

i barely get hit tho

[small timber]

stinger + shark tooth still stack right?

10 armor pen, on melee you also get sharpening station = 15 armor pen

[drowsy plank]

WoF only has 18 def in expert too

kinda wacky

[frosty trellis]

B R U H
That's insanity

[swift wharf]

what's mnl

[upbeat yacht]

minimum nohit length

[swift wharf]

i see

[upbeat yacht]

frequency manipulator spam

(3:00)

[drowsy plank]

balanced

[frosty trellis]

Build seems a wee bit on the offensive side but your point is made clear

[grim tusk]

No wonder its viable for Aureus, currently not my priority unless y’all want me to instead of balancing post-Plant butcher the outliers first (of which plant tier has 3 notable ones). But first college hw and projects (one due today)

[frosty trellis]

Post plant then exe blade then that bs

And then you can see the horror that is most of post polter rogue

As in a lot of it is bad

If you thought time bolt is bad, if I can actually win the fight you will see something that's 5:30+ worse

[cobalt pewter]

Alpha Virus supremacy tbh

[unborn siren]

use both necklaces for maximum trolling

[grim tusk]

Time bolt is shit I knew that
Night’s gaze and Phantasmal ruin depend on distance, the further the target is the better. Night’s gaze in particular can even get Yharon tier dps
Valediction is ok on spam last time I checked, stealth is decent vs OD vs eh on DoG (also last time I checked)
I literally rebalanced Toxicant Twister and The Reaper and buffed em a lot (spam toxicant twister was too op and had to be nerfed)

What could have happened is DGS loosing guaranteed crit gutting em

[frosty trellis]

Oh so that explains why Night Gaze stealth and Phantasmal Ruin was doing bad for me. I fight DoG up close and personal
Valediction is bad
DSD Spam is fine, stealth is the 2nd worst weapon I've ever used, haven't gotten to flex stealth but 8:30 at 52% remaining is horrid
Ghoulish Gouger Spam is a bit strong, stealth is really weird and not consistent for whatever reason (I can get .5-2.5% HP in one stealth strike doing the exact same thing for no reason)
Jaws of Oblivion spam is fine, stealth is weak
Twister spam is op yeah (haven't gotten to stealth yet)
Reaper spam is fine (haven't gotten to stealth yet)

[sage drum]

um, dsd flex stealth is a bit famous

[frosty trellis]

Yeah I know it's famous

But I've never used it myself

And with the mega neef to it's stealth I wonder if it's any good, and that's up next once I get a chance

[grim tusk]

Common misconception for DSD is that you must wait for stealth to charge to do flexes

Spam 4 flexes then BONK

[grim tusk]

Nerfed it, a lot

Also DSD is kinda bad vs DoG now, esp with how inconsistent it is

Considering how hard its to aim at its head

But its extremely fucking good for OD

So not gonna buff it unless it also did bad on OD

[frosty trellis]

Haven't gotten to OD

[frosty trellis]

That I'm already aware of

Can just spam right click all you want

[lean kettle]

Has anyone suggested making NPCs (mainly the nurse) sit on their chair during bossfight and events? Mine keeps running off

[drowsy plank]

seems pointless

nurse is disabled in rev+ anyway

because from what i can tell you just want to use her as a free heal in the middle of a fight

and i cant imagine any other reason you'd actually want this changes besides like.

[lean kettle]

Yes and the heal is anything but free

[drowsy plank]

i dunno having NPC not get mauled by worm bosses maybe

[swift wharf]

not anymore iirc

[drowsy plank]

really?

[swift wharf]

yea

cal is removing anti cheese

[drowsy plank]

wack

still dumb and i wouldnt want a change to explicitly support it

[lean kettle]

Youre calling my suggestion pointless and then proceed to name the point behind it? I see.

[drowsy plank]

it's pointless because the motivation is misguided

[swift wharf]

tbf it doesnt make a lot of sense

[lean kettle]

simple qol change dont see a problem with it

[swift wharf]

let me sit down during one of the most dangerous moments in my life

[drowsy plank]

"simple qol change" mfs installing wing slot

[swift wharf]

cant you just make a special nurse room

[lean kettle]

good point

[drowsy plank]

that's what most people do

[lean kettle]

Ill give that a try

I forgot player only pressure plates are a thing

[swift wharf]

or just

npc prison

or smth

place tiles so she doesnt escape idk

[lean kettle]

you are aware NPCs still sit down at night during bossfights right?

hence destroyer fight being known for collateral damage

[swift wharf]

damn npcs are stupid

[lean kettle]

true

[drowsy plank]

i mean NPCs would still die a ton during boss fights even if destroyer could be fought during the day lol

[frosty trellis]

Oh speaking of OD, am I allowed to use flasks of crumbling vs OD?

When testing?

Or like against any boss?

[grim tusk]

Melee and Rogue are allowed to use flasks

Summoner, maybe once whips are out (or even made)

[frosty trellis]

Aight sick. Ty for clearing that up

[frosty trellis]

Tag damage needs to die

[drowsy plank]

tag damage more like bad damage lmao gotem

[cobalt pewter]

even if DSD broke every single multiverse, as long as it's not informative in how it works while being used, I ain't ever using it

[crude geode]

DSD?

[drowsy plank]

deep sea dumbbell

[crude geode]

oh right

stg this community has too many acronyms

[swift wharf]

just call it dumbbell 😭

[crude geode]

literally

[frosty trellis]

So true though

[grim tusk]

Tag dmg more like every minion gets pseudo armor pen

[frosty trellis]

Yeah it

Is very dumb

And needs to just get ✂️

[crude geode]

me when vanilla forgets balancing

[small timber]

What if whips which currently scale on % tag damage also have a cap

Like "10% tag damage, cap at 5" etc

That way it become very hard for small base damage minion to reach capped tag damage (compare to just have it be static like vanilla)

And of course that cap increase with later/higher tier whips

[crude geode]

I'm pretty sure mortar rounds AREN'T meant to be used in battle lmao

[drowsy plank]

i think it'd be fine tbh lol

[cobalt pewter]

except Karasawa is a thing

but by itself, yes

[frosty trellis]

Was about to say

[cobalt pewter]

unless you have a throwaway world

which is ???

[frosty trellis]

Karasawa turns mortar rounds into a sub 1:20 Yharon

I do believe that is fair though considering voidstone itself is explosion resistant

@grim tusk (Gonna drop the rogue on DoG data for now so you can get an idea. Phantasmal Ruin and Night's Gaze as I've said before I fight DoG up close and personal so the times are probably not accurate but I am not going to change how I fight DoG so yeah)

(Also DoG needs serious resistance to wave pounder)

[cobalt pewter]

yep

shart my beloved

dog should develop a skill solution

[frosty trellis]

God gor with ghoulish gouger
This accessory is dumb with some spam weapons

[cobalt pewter]

what acc

[crude geode]

.

Glove of recklessness

[cobalt pewter]

....

I swear I thought someone was a bit silly with their keyboard and mistyped god

like the thought didn't even come to me

[ruby plover]

God god

ah yes

[crude geode]

[cobalt pewter]

maybe there's an issue when half of cal's item names are so hard to memorize we all have to resort to acronyms no one ever even heard of

[frosty trellis]

Glove of recklessness takes 30 seconds off the kt for some weapons istg

Like Ghoulish, Executioners Blade and Hypothermia

[crude geode]

I think it’s more a problem of people being too lazy to type full words

[frosty trellis]

Executioners blade with glove of recklessness IS THE BEST ROGUE WEAPON FOR SCAL RN

[crude geode]

Balance funny

[cobalt pewter]

are there really that much complicated names in vanilla compared to cal

like RoD is an acronym

and it's a silly acronym too because rod

[crude geode]

Yes

[sage drum]

this is not a new problem lmao

[crude geode]

I didn’t say it was new

[frosty trellis]

Also HOW THE FUCK IS DSD STEALTH MAX FLEX GOOD ON OD WHAT

Shade what are you on

It's unreasonably hard to hit OD and does no where near enough damage to justify

[grim tusk]

OD's killtime is 3 mins

its likely that losing guaranteed crits hit Dumbell with big collateral damage

also nerfed Glove of recklessness

and armor pen needs to go fuck itself

[frosty trellis]

I didn't even use any armor pen kek

[upbeat yacht]

yeah, i get it
i'm just trying out random rogue stuff for fun (also for you to put on the list for later)

[unborn siren]

the rod in rod of discord is short for rod of discord

[cobalt pewter]

rod of discord of discord of discord of discord of discord

[abstract rune]

by any chance, was the Eydolon wyrm inspired by the Ghost Leviathan from Subnautica? because the similarities are huge, even the noise he makes is the same

[frosty trellis]

Iirc yes

[cobalt pewter]

it is, as mentioned above

which annoys me a bit more that they just made aew a tacky superboss when the ghost leviathan isn't meant to be fought

#suggestions-posting message

the enrage is based on the location of polter itself and not the player's?

[small timber]

@full basalt are you sure polterghast enrage outside of dungeon?

[full basalt]

yes

That is the pattern I noticed when fighting him

[small timber]

doesnt seem like it

chances are it is because when it run into dungeon/other part of the map there are less block which cause the enrage

it is not caused by leaving the dungeon

if polterghast is enraging the hp bar (the name of Polterghast) will be shining red

since it doesnt shine red it is normal behavior

[crude geode]

Byeah polterghast be insanely quirky

[small timber]

the polterghast block enrage is insanely sensitive though\

[crude geode]

#suggestions-voting message

[small timber]

as in as soon as you have some large space it instantly enraged (though it dont immediately "full enrage", it get angries the less block there is)

[crude geode]

Really we just need this to happen

[small timber]

like, this is the size of arena I had to use for it to not enrage (at all)

larger than this it gain small amount of enrage, and gain more enrage the less block there is

[crude geode]

SCal arena looking ass

[hollow shell]

Okay I was about to say that Polterghast doesn't have an outside-of-Dungeon enrage

But technically, he does

He gains boosts to a bunch of his speeds if the player's biome is detected as not being the Dungeon, the same boosts as if he is brought to the surface (it is literally the same IF statement)

It has nothing to do with Polter's own position afaik, it's the player's biome
So as long as you're still in front of dungeon backwalls, nothing out of the ordinary should be happening

[small timber]

wait really? since from this it looks ordinary

[crude geode]

should prolly be on wiki

[hollow shell]

But uh yeah he is supposed to try to despawn if the player is outside of the Dungeon for more than 10 seconds, same as the surface

Or at least, it becomes a lot easier for him to despawn, from the looks of things?

Not sure what's goin on

Okay @full basalt How can you tell that Polter is enraging?

Does its health bar turn red?

[full basalt]

Yes

and he turns red and moves super fast

[small timber]

I can record one if needed, since I think that is tied to arena size (since I saw the image attached have a lot of space)

the new polterghast enrage is super sensitive now

[hollow shell]

And you're 100% sure this is caused by POLTER straying outside of the Dungeon walls
And has nothing to do with the amount of open blocks around you?

[full basalt]

Now that you mention that, it's very possible for it to be the latter

[hollow shell]

Because from the looks of things in the source
The only thing that can cause Polter to enter an official enrage state is having too many open tiles around him (or being in Boss Rush) (actually BR makes it so the bar doesn't turn red but it also maxes out his tile enrage)

[full basalt]

My arena doesn't have open space though?

or does it?

That's basically where I fight him

[small timber]

let me try to create a space similar to what you used

[hollow shell]

If the enrage really is getting triggered by that room and the openings in the caves around you, then the enrage seems kinda strict...

[small timber]

yeah polter's enrage is super strict

it don't count how many space you can actually move (eg in this case the space above the roof is blocked), it just count how many empty block is around you

[full basalt]

that's annoying lol

soo I have to either destroy my dungeon to makea new arena or just fill in the holes

[hollow shell]

Yeah weird
It doesn't seem like natural cave formations are enough to piss him off

To be exact, Polter scans a 30 tile radius around itself
so, 60 diameter

[small timber]

ok I will need to try more

it seems to matter abit? because in my old arena it enraged eventhough the space around me is small

[hollow shell]

I am not 100% sure if it's a rectangular area or a circular area
The use of the word "radius" and "diameter" makes me believe that it's circular but I see it defining a rectangle

[small timber]

though I thing I think for sure is it is not dungeon tied yeah

since the first video I straight up drag it to almost surface and it never enraged

[hollow shell]

byeah there is a very specific bool flip that triggers the Red HP Bar type of enrage, and for Polter there is only one trigger for that: the tile enrage

(BR fills the conditions but doesn't make the bar turn red iirc)

[ruby plover]

I think bosses that have scalar enrages, and then an actual enrage, like polter, should not have their bar turn red unless their proper enrage triggers

I.e. red when polter on surface

[small timber]

ok polter enrage seems to be based on polter itself, not the player

which may be why it enraged in the suggestion, since it rush into an area with little blocks

[hollow shell]

In Polter's case there is a variable that changes in value based on exactly how many or how few tiles are around him
And that variable gets fed into his various speeds

And there is a certain threshold where it is considered enough to turn the bar red, though that threshold doesn't actually have a distinct change in its behavior, it's just for indication purposes
He'll behave very similarly to an enrage even if he's just below the red-bar threshold

cuz it's

dynamic

[cobalt pewter]

fancy word

[swift wharf]

Yes remove the enrage nobody will fight polter in the surface right

Anyways wouldn't making the enraged based on whether the player is in the dungeon or not better

[finite smelt]

yea

[golden tulip]

player makes custom surface biome

[small timber]

ok since it was mentioned that boss feedback can be posted here, this is for Devourer of Gods (after I fought it unreasonable amount of time):

1. the new (non-wall) lasers needs improvement

• it last way too long to the point that you will often get hit by lingering lasers. It lasting this long just result in off screen attack that are not trackable; either the lasers last shorter or the speed of the lasers itself is increased (preferably the later) so that dodging lasers is more engaging and less off screen problem
• it incentivize staying AWAY from DoG (which is less risky), and disincentivize staying NEAR DoG (which is riskier), which already had a risk of being hit by the head in the first place
• telegraph last way too short, DoG's laser telegraph is worse than pre-nerf Thanatos by a lot

2. P1 laser net and P2 laser wall simply need an actual telegraph

• currently this is done by having DoG turn invisible, by with how the new normal lasers are fired you want to stay away from it, therefore DoG is not always on screen for that

• I think it should have global telegraph in some way, be it a roar, maybe special effect on screen etc

• what I mean by "actual telegraph" is telegraph for the attack starting, not telegraph for where the attack will land (which currently has a laser grid telegraph)

• as a side note I do think it will be more engaging for P2 laser wall telegraph to last longer (so it do not rely on photographic memory) but also fire more walls per barrage, currently 2 just incentivize cheesing strat like slime mount, rod or fly up, as you only have to dodge 2 in a row

3. P1 laser net invisible/no contact damage last way too short, it is over before the 2nd laser net is over resulting in cheap hit while dodging other attacks

4. cosmic guardian I dont know how to properly fix them but it is a problem, tldr it is a DoG's head hitbox extender that makes you unable to dash across the head, as after you dodge the head you will just get hit by guardian

[versed cape]

strong agree with a telegraph for the attack starting

I really want to stop counting to 12 by constantly looking at the edge of my screen

[cobalt pewter]

having to mentally count everything seems pretty annoying in general when you already have quite a bunch to pay attention on

[small timber]

also I thing I forgot to mention is the normal laser having different speed can also have unexpected effect, such as when you stay near the body, the closest laser to the body segment you located at will fire a 1mph lasers which basically become a random mine

tbh I liked it when the normal lasers are fired from off screen and arrived at same time rather than dependent on body segment, though with the new iteration I think they should just have direction based on body segment but still fired from slightly off screen (rather than from segments themselves)

[grave zinc]

@dry grotto - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[rework boss rush's progression]

It has officially been implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[swift wharf]

[tardy geyser]

[inner anvil]

It takes literally less than a minute to change it.

[dry grotto]

true and real

[lucid flare]

so what is it now

[inner anvil]

Progression order.

Any other order wouldn't make sense.

[lucid flare]

true...

i'm gonna miss tier 4 slime god

immediately followed by providence

and then tier 5

[cobalt pewter]

what

[lucid flare]

boss rush order got changed to normal progression order

[cobalt pewter]

ah

[lucid flare]

and this

literally a pre-hardmode boss

followed by providence and the 3 of the final 4 bosses

[inner anvil]

People had their preferences back in 2018, if you know what I mean.

(It was decided through a community vote).

[lucid flare]

i am aware of that

i just think it's funny

[swift wharf]

"boss rush will never be a priority"

[inner anvil]

That doesn't mean that it's balanced yet.

But I guess we'll need to do that someday.

[distant gyro]

everything remained the same other than the order

so still expect boss rush to still suck after the update

hard truth or we

[small timber]

is exo in or

also is deerclops there

[distant gyro]

will be

including deerclops

and aew

[inner anvil]

Everyone.

[small timber]

soon™️ deerclops will have AI

[lucid flare]

unfortunate

that means you'll have to make deerclops "malice" ai

[inner anvil]

That's correct.

AEW Malice. :)

[lucid flare]

haha laugh at the deerclops they never got malice ai before it got removed

[distant gyro]

honestly

why do endgame bosses even have buffed AI

it's already endgame

[inner anvil]

IDK ask Fab.

[distant gyro]

it really doesn't need it especially if it's gonna be nerfed afterwards

[small timber]

I think the original intention is (maybe) since boss rush AIs need to be buffed in speed anyway to catch end game player with gears like drews wing?

and since malice is just bosses with overtuned speed so they just have to tune it even higher

[distant gyro]

The scenario is like

Boss Rush SCal is the hardest boss
Adds harder Boss Rush AI for SCal
Boss Rush SCal becomes even harder as a hardest boss
Nerfs her health (as opposed to this ever affecting the bullet hells)
Players:
"Why is Boss Rush's difficulty so centered towards SCal"

the final tier of mobility is already achieved for endgame bosses other than maybe Exo Box

and especially for AEW the boss is already gonna be matching the player since both AEW and BR AEW are post-game with no differences

there's really no need for one to be harder than the other

[inner anvil]

IDK we'll see what Fab does, maybe he'll just not do anything.

[lucid flare]

boss rush scal bullet hells should be shorter ( bad idea)

[small timber]

I mean boss rush scal being that hard is because of malice's proj speed increased no?

[distant gyro]

yeah

BR SCal is extra hard because she has malice AI

[small timber]

sry, what I mean is after the malice's proj speed increased being removed (before malice is deleted entirely), does malice scal still have increased projectile speed?

[distant gyro]

so like, the current version

yes

faster, more bullets during bullet hells, and more bullets from fireblasts/gigablasts

[drowsy plank]

that was always weird to me. like if BR is gonna have changes at all why not just like, give the boss one extra attack or something. you could even make it easier than their normal attacks, just something new and different to mix it up instead of making it incredibly hard

[cobalt pewter]

make 2 BR variants, one with dmode AI and another with malice AI

the malice one gives a golden rock, still won't do anything besides being shiny

[distant gyro]

idk but Fab expresses the idea of not wanting there to be an Absrad

pretty consistently

and Absrad is honestly pretty similar to BR <endgame boss> with that analogy

they're quite literally parallel

[half imp]

@full basalt polter doesn't enrage outside of dungeon, only on the surface

I know because I fight him in the underworld every time

(the wiki also mentions that)

of course there is also the move faster when less blocks are around

[small timber]

(already exclaimed)

[half imp]

i saw a lot of speculation of it but I was confirming from my experience that he indeed doesn't enrage outside the dungeon

Because I never fight him in the dungeon

[small timber]

earlier today we did some testing to confirm it yeah

[small timber]

this one I think

[swift wharf]

e

[half sage]

Just go grab frost blossom, can be acquired with no combat

[swift wharf]

this is like that mana crystal suggestion

but with summoner

[hot zephyr]

flashback to when squirrel staff wasn't a sentry

and it sucked lol

[swift wharf]

[tardy smelt]

[drowsy plank]

didnt a sugg like this already pass

like replacing it with finch staff or leather whip or something

something more "active"

[zenith flicker]

AEW desperately needs a rework

It has so much potential, but right now it's just not fun at all

And it has only one unique drop

So unless you're a ranger, you'll never need to fight it

[small timber]

Pretty sure replacing it with non sentry will make it worse

Since it is the starter bag, you cant really give things that are too strong

So instead of having an uncontrollable summon with scuffed AI I will rather have a sentey that I can actively choose who and where to target

[zenith flicker]

The breath loss and distorted movement in the abyss just makes it worse

[small timber]

It only need to last until I get a new summon, not the entire preHM

[drowsy plank]

yeah that's fair

[small timber]

AEW now is intentionally optional

The point is literally that you do NOT have to fight it

[drowsy plank]

aew kinda a placeholder of a boss anyway aren't they

[small timber]

For the rework of the fight itself it is up to fabsol anyway, I will imagine other bosses take prority

[zenith flicker]

I think the best (and probably easiest) course of action would be to make an upgrade to the abyssal diving gear

[swift wharf]

AEW is fine imo

since it will stop being a superboss soon

[drowsy plank]

true

just use exo box and gills potions after actually clearing out your abyss lmao

the abyss is also getting wider isnt it

so even less of an issue there

[golden kayak]

L squirrel suggestion

[zenith flicker]

It's very difficult to see the attacks too, the same attacks that were basically stolen from the lunatic cultist

[drowsy plank]

omniscience potion

[small timber]

Water physics immune is not equal to flipper which is what many people confused about

Abyss diving gear do NOT give water physics immune which is why it feels clunky

All you have to do is just use celestial shell which is a very good accessory anyway

[zenith flicker]

It would be cool if they made an upgrade to the abyssal diving gear that combines it with the shell

[small timber]

Why?

Just make abyss diving gear as it is

[drowsy plank]

i get the idea of having ADG have a water physics immune version but also like
what's the point

[small timber]

Why do you need an upgrade specifically to fight a boss that is literally supposed to be post game and an optional boss at the sametime

[drowsy plank]

^^^^

and also

Exo Box

[small timber]

The tldr is you are NOT supposed to fight AEW, it is the equivalent of abyss version of dungeon guardian

[zenith flicker]

I just want my boy to be a fully fleshed out and enjoyable boss

[small timber]

It is supposed to be limited and restricted in many ways, the only thing I agree with you here is the boss itself need finetuning

[zenith flicker]

I want the AEW to be less like the dungeon guardian, and more like the EoL. Optional and difficult, but fun and worth fighting

imo that would be better

[drowsy plank]

yeah well that aint happening anytime soon

team's got bigger priorities atm anyway

eventually they'll deal with This Whole Thing but

it aint gonna be soon

[zenith flicker]

If they didn't want us to fight it, why not make it enrage all the time and one-shot you

[drowsy plank]

bc that's dumb

[small timber]

AEW literally do one shot you for 99% of thr game, and is moved at a pace similar to enraged version of bosses

So that literally already happened

[drowsy plank]

it was like that for most of its lifespan anyway so yeah i guess we could just go back to that but it Sucked

[zenith flicker]

If it was enraged all the time people wouldn't want to fight it, so problem solved

[small timber]

The tldr is this is the same deal as reworking dungeon guardian into an actual boss

At that point just make a new boss

[drowsy plank]

people would still fight it

[zenith flicker]

Then don't give them any incentive to fight it

[drowsy plank]

i mean

[cobalt pewter]

the best course of action is clearly to reference Subnautica to the core

[drowsy plank]

there isn't

[cobalt pewter]

don't let AEW drop anything

[drowsy plank]

true

[cobalt pewter]

not even money

[drowsy plank]

but fr if you put something in a game and it has an HP bar players will try and find a way to kill it

[zenith flicker]

Make it drop 1 copper

[zenith flicker]

Then don't give it a health bar

[cobalt pewter]

even people still tried to kill various leviathans in Subnautica even though they were supposed to not be killed