suggestions-discussion

[frosty trellis]

Oh I use the boss checklist that has the book not the sidebar

[hollow shell]

It's the same mod.

Look in your controls

There's a hotkey to open the sidebar

[small timber]

I dont think the suggestion will be like, particularly useful, since if you add life regen for it it will just be very untrackable

just have the item that heals stat the amount they heal on the item tooltip itself, rather than put it on like stat meter or something

[hollow shell]

It could be nice to have

especially if it takes regen into account, frankly

It's a useful metric to know for survivability

[small timber]

it is less that it is not useful, it is more that it can be very hard to track how much you actually heal overtime imo

with things like life regen increasing the longer you dont take damage or attacking, sometimes small burst of healing increase life regen by a lot (eg: bloodflare set bonus + stand still bonus), it can be abit inaccurate

which is the main reason I think just putting the healing amount on the item that provide them themselves will be more accurate

like have rare sand elemental in a bottle stating it "heals for ... HP every ... second" etc

[ruby plover]

in calamity, your life regen becomes lower the less hp you have missing, i think...?

so, it would be very hard to track consistently

[hollow shell]

We could make it so that it doesn't try to detect all the different life restoration methods and instead literally monitors the player's current HP and lists the positive rate of change

(will result in bursts with healing potions but it is technically accurate)

[grave zinc]

@ashen warren - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Have worm bosses unwrap better in rev or death.]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@narrow mantle - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make Altar of the accursed 5 blocks in width rather than 4 blocks (And, by defualt, make the sprite reflect that please)]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@drowsy plank - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Update Omega Blue's Tentacles to Use More Modern DrawCode]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@orchid wing - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[add a way to find the biome shrines]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@copper coyote - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Add a terrarium for a bloodworm]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@lyric path - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make acidwood trees spawn more often]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@earnest jewel - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make DoG Teleport visually a little better]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[orchid wing]

Fucking hell if that does im leaving this hellhole

[small timber]

how did that biome shrine suggestion get through

[orchid wing]

Wdym

[small timber]

because biome shrine is getting reworked, so I will say it is not unlikely

[orchid wing]

Well i hope, sometimes it feels like suggestions never rlly affect anythin

[small timber]

that or biome shrine items, but ya

[orchid wing]

some

Well most suggestions r rlly bad too

I remember someone posted
"Add a pickaxe that does more damage the liver your health is"

Very few diamond in the rough

[keen zodiac]

7/10 suggestions planned to be implemented die in backlog

[golden kayak]

Add a terrarium for a bloodworm

[short walrus]

Already suggested, already accepted iirc

[golden kayak]

I know

Just judging

[drowsy plank]

wow this batch kinda sucks!

im suprised most of these even made it into voting lmao

[marble moat]

sorry for ping but if y’all would do this could you remove all platforms from that list too since skybridges kind of screw the meteor uo

[swift wharf]

stop making skybridges no boss needs them 😭😭😭

[marble moat]

screw you I hate walking across the world at night

:(

[inner anvil]

So true.

[umbral dew]

these are almost all good qol suggestions why do they suck

[long ridge]

most of them are purely visual

[drowsy plank]

worm uncoiling being better is absolutely something already probably being worked on, biome shrines are getting overhauled if not outright removed, and a terrarium for bloodworms is literally just dependant on the art server actually making one.

also the last one is literally the same fucking thing as the first one lmaooooooo

a lot of these are very much "please do this thing you are already doing"

[small timber]

Not every suggestion have to bring substantial change to content, but ya when 90% of suggestions in a batch are cosmetic it can feel a bit excessive

(the only 1 this batch that is 'not cosmetic' is the worm uncoiling, which because of worm dr depend on the boss can also be cosmetic)

[swift wharf]

they don't know

[devout shell]

Nahh add an eidolon inchwyrm terrarium, like the pet in calval

[frail mantle]

get calval to do it

[vestal bronze]

wait where do i get this

[eternal fern]

dog:
exo mechs:

[eternal escarp]

first hote sugg (iirc) that wants to kill the waifuness

good

[eternal fern]

its seriously distracting me from the gameplay

[eternal escarp]

i dont think the boobs do that the screen clutter does

[eternal fern]

my eyes are pulled towards the boobs like magnets

[eternal fern]

YEAH

[inner anvil]

Well, that's not our problem.

[frail mantle]

you problem ngl

[inner anvil]

[eternal fern]

i cannot see anything when they all use the projectiles

and im crowded in 50 sand tornados

[inner anvil]

I mean, yeah, we can make the projectilse more transparent, but the other part, that's just your problem man.

[frail mantle]

if the mere existence of woman shaped objects on the screen is enough to get you killed you should probably just take the heart off

[eternal fern]

nerf stealth strike infernado

[inner anvil]

LMAO TRUE.

[eternal fern]

its massive

[swift wharf]

no boss needs a skybridge period

not even dog

[inner anvil]

Horny Jail moment.

[hollow shell]

Aggressively worded suggestion, Yout
Decreases the chances of people agreeing with you because you're antagonizing them

[swift wharf]

not even exo mechs

[eternal fern]

fair let me reword that

[swift wharf]

anyways yeah stop looking at tiddies lmao

[frail mantle]

also brimmy already has a resprite planned which i would presume makes her less explicit

[hollow shell]

The amount of decreased explicitness depends on the redesign we go with

[eternal fern]

fargo's mod

😃

[swift wharf]

increase it

[eternal fern]

no effort skybridge

[swift wharf]

what does fargo have to do with what I said

[cobalt pewter]

unless you're nohitting, you can just use a large area equivalent to a big chunk of surface jungle to get by for exos

[eternal escarp]

Anahita doesnt have any plans to be redesigned afaik, but frankly i dont think she is too explicit

[swift wharf]

fuck nohitters

[hollow shell]

We very nearly completed a Brim resprite that still had boobs, but no more visible pelvis
but the new proposed design lacks even those

[eternal fern]

oops oh no my message got deleted by a mod

shame

😓

[inner anvil]

Uh huh.

[eternal fern]

[swift wharf]

now people think that bosses need 372 bridges because of them

[eternal escarp]

i dont blame nohitters

[frail mantle]

lol ok

[swift wharf]

I do

[inner anvil]

To clear anyone's mind, testers don't test bosses with skybridges.

[eternal escarp]

i blame people for using nohitters as a guide to play the game

[tardy smelt]

she cyoot~

[eternal fern]

what about nohitters

[swift wharf]

I blame them too

[eternal fern]

whats wrong with nohitters

they are good at the game

[tardy smelt]

that is all

[swift wharf]

everything

[tardy smelt]

no they aren't

[inner anvil]

That's a long story.

[cobalt pewter]

sure, you're one of em :clueless:

but jokes aside the general community is at fault

typical terraria player brain going monke over numbers and meaningless challenges

[inner anvil]

A very.

Long story.

[frail mantle]

nohitters are too prevalent because the mod itself used to actively endorse it

[eternal escarp]

damn my point invalid...

[tardy smelt]

exhibit A: myself
exhibit B: Blast

[eternal escarp]

what the fuck

[eternal fern]

just cut it down to a few sentences

the story aint that long

[eternal escarp]

how DARE you call me bad..

[tardy smelt]

im an honest gal

[eternal escarp]

lies

[frail mantle]

and now people think nohitters show the optimal way to play the game in all situations

[tardy smelt]

🥺

[inner anvil]

Ok, the majority are fucking annoying lmao.

[swift wharf]

monkey with a typewriter except it's someone trying to nohit a boss

[eternal escarp]

i wouldnt say the majority

[tardy smelt]

^

[eternal fern]

mfs be like rogue is mid then do 150k+ damage every 5 seconds

[tardy smelt]

but there's uh

a few

[eternal fern]

[lethal prism]

I think a slider to make summons in general more or less transparent would be cool

[eternal escarp]

but there are people for sure

[cobalt pewter]

especially when cal is already avoiding balancing with nohit situations

[tardy smelt]

[lethal prism]

Not just hote

[swift wharf]

there is no majority they all suck 😭😭

[eternal escarp]

fargo mutant has this exact thing

thankfully

[swift wharf]

CONFIG SUGGESTION GAHHHHHH

[cobalt pewter]

farded

[tardy smelt]

[frail mantle]

nuclearoption

[eternal fern]

WHERE

[swift wharf]

[eternal escarp]

in their configs

[swift wharf]

but yes

[inner anvil]

Y'all know we can just make them transparent and that's it, right?

[swift wharf]

I was gonna say t

[eternal escarp]

personally i thinl HOTE just needs a rework hurdur

[swift wharf]

:hat:

[inner anvil]

Anyways, balancing gaming.

[cobalt pewter]

HotE generally doesn't do anything remotely unique yes

it's just a compilation of 4 minions shooting random stuff and a minion that tries to heal you without heartreach buff

[frail mantle]

make HotE summon just one elemental that combines elements of all the others

and also isn't humanoid

that'd be cool

[cobalt pewter]

a mutant elemental

[eternal escarp]

conglomerate

my beloved concept

[inner anvil]

Do you think it's worth bringing up in Dev?

[frail mantle]

make HotE straight up summon the fuckin elden beast or something

[eternal escarp]

i do

[swift wharf]

elemental entity

[inner anvil]

I hate Elden Beast! I hate Elden Beast! 🤢

[eternal escarp]

HoTE as it currently is, is and will stay projectile clutter

[frail mantle]

or even better

[cobalt pewter]

cal's issue of just letting stuff exactly be when combined is pretty apparent on some things yes

[eternal escarp]

no matter how transparent you make it

[cobalt pewter]

HotE, Auric Tesla (hate)

[cobalt pewter]

YES

[eternal escarp]

HoTE's identity currently is just projectiles

[swift wharf]

auric tesla

more like

[frail mantle]

consider: with how much of an ass the elden beast is to fight, imagine how much of an ass it'd be for an enemy to fight

[swift wharf]

no

[inner anvil]

Agreeable.

[grim tusk]

TRUE

[frail mantle]

fitzroy my beloved

[swift wharf]

dragon scales

[inner anvil]

Anyways, gotta' balance new content.

[grim tusk]

Sooo true

[cobalt pewter]

I wanna play Iconoclasts again

and if I can't still grasp the lore after that, imma perish

it's so good but my monke brain years ago couldn't grasp its lore

Dragon Scales should totally get bordernado resprite btw

I love that so much

not sure about wand

[tardy smelt]

it'd definitely be cooler and more memorable than the current

[grim tusk]

The problem is dragon scales

• Ozz

[cobalt pewter]

true

[drowsy plank]

heart of the elementals seems more like a weapon than an accessory

lmao

[distant gyro]

maybe if you weaponize a heart

[cobalt pewter]

I mean

[tardy smelt]

turn it into a rogue weapon

[cobalt pewter]

[[Gamma Heart]]

[red storm]

https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Gamma_Heart

[tardy smelt]

throw the heart at enemies

[drowsy plank]

i mean on the fact that it is Literally Just 5 Minions

[cobalt pewter]

throws whole elementals

stealth strike throws everyone

[drowsy plank]

like that seems like it should just be a 5 slot summon weapon not an accessory

[tardy smelt]

or maybe the itself is thrown and explodes into elementals

[drowsy plank]

funny

[tardy smelt]

[lethal prism]

God, now I imagine a rogue screaming "You have no bitches!" And just yeeting the heart at someone

[drowsy plank]

my point is virili is a summon weapon, not an accessory, so idk why the elementals get to be special and go in the accessory slot

[tardy smelt]

the ultimate flex

[cobalt pewter]

inb4 summon weapon that throws an item to mark a spot for the associated minions to focus fire on

[inner anvil]

Donor.

[tardy smelt]

virii or whatever is a donor item

[cobalt pewter]

virili is yes

[tardy smelt]

these accs are probably much older

[drowsy plank]

the only other item like this is mutated truffle

[tardy smelt]

thats why they take different routes to achieve more or less the same

[cobalt pewter]

me when

me when fungla

[tardy smelt]

that one is more comparable to like, Fungal Clump (?)

I think its called that

[drowsy plank]

ah yeah

i forgot that thing existed lmao

[swift wharf]

HoTE becomes example sword

[cobalt pewter]

as I said, a bunch of cal's combination stuffs are too rigid in that they barely change when combined past sprites

I think Frozen Shield's extra gimmick of further DR on <25% HP (formerly for the now-dead Frigid Bulwark) is a good exception to that trend

(at least I think Frozen Shield inherits that)

oh huh

that effect doesn't exist anymore

great!

[small timber]

you just get 25% full DR below 50% now

instead of 15% <50% and 25% <25%

[arctic tapir]

This dudes scared of boob

[devout shell]

Boob scary

[unreal viper]

Women are terrifying

[devout shell]

Yes

Especially to a calamity player

All the women are deadly

[golden kayak]

No

[tawny garden]

wh

[hollow shell]

happens sometimes

It's client-side

[versed cape]

yo that guy is so cool

anyways I have an idea for a suggestion

jungle planetoids contain queen larvae on FTW

too lazy to make a formal suggestion about it, so I hope one of you does

they used to?

[hollow shell]

They definitely did at some point, I remember people even strategizing QB fights around em

[versed cape]

but I mean FTW in particular

[tawny garden]

I restarted my client, and opened a different one

[small timber]

the main thing is it is incredibly annoying when you have like a starfury and break larvae randomly

since some projectiles just decide that they dont want to despawn

[hollow shell]

Yes that is the big funny

[versed cape]

but I have like no votes on my client either

surely we dont all have group hallucinations

[hollow shell]

I thought vanilla introduced countermeasures for long-distance larva assassination in 1.4

[small timber]

I think some times suggestions have their votes randomly get resetted, and then it return like sometime later

I am unsure how it works too

[hollow shell]

hmm I am also only seeing 5 votes on the dash suggestion
I saw 2 like an hour ago

I don't think it was that unpopular, 'specially now that it is getting votes
Fuck, I guess it mustve been a server-side Discord bug

That's annoying

[versed cape]

I saw dozens a day ago

[hollow shell]

I hope that it unfucks itself and restores the correct number but it might not do that

[versed cape]

I think the best solution is to accept that the voting is rigged and qualify my suggestion immediately

[placid moth]

I tap on dash buttons so much sometimes it comes right off, and the paint's wearing off too

[hollow shell]

I might unofficially bring it up in dev to serve as a pseudo-delivery if it really was kneecapped 20 or 30 stars, and doesn't get delivered as a result

[placid moth]

oof

[versed cape]

arent you a dev?

[hollow shell]

Yes

[versed cape]

it would be so cool of you to make a mod that lets us configure the dash timing

thats the best solution for everyone

[hollow shell]

I don't do any on the programming side unfortunately

I wouldn't know how to override the dash tap detection

(I could learn but it'd take a while..)

[versed cape]

I mean

wouldnt you just be looking for a certain variable and then implement an item or something that can dynamically change it

[hollow shell]

For changing a likely-buried vanilla value like that, it's not that simple
It's not like adding +5 to the defense stat

I'd have to find where the timer is stored in the vanilla source and implement an IL Edit, reflection, or some other override method
which I have 0 experience with

[versed cape]

sounds complicated

but I think its worth it to save nohitters from thousands of collective unnecessary deaths

[small timber]

I think if you dont use the nohit argument it will be a lot better yeah

since people tend to dislike it when nohit is used as the main argument

[versed cape]

well theres not really a nohit argument

[small timber]

when in fact the problem exist for everyone

[versed cape]

I said the problem exists for everyone, nohitters included

and that im a nohitter

if I just did normal playthroughs the suggestion wouldnt change

[small timber]

then you dont need to include the nohit in the suggestion

but ya, it is in voting already anyway

the tldr is some people will just dont vote on the suggestion because nohit is mentioned

especially in the case of scal where you can just dont use a dash (most people do that, notably nohitters)

[versed cape]

but thats a shitty solution

[small timber]

because you dont need a dash in scal, as simple as that

[versed cape]

still a shitty solution

you also dont need on tier gear

all bosses are still perfectly doable

[small timber]

^, using "nohit scal" as part of the argument will just cause some people to not vote for it

and it is in voting already so not really anything can be done

[soft quest]

What’s the discussion about?

[versed cape]

not like I can change it anyway

[versed cape]

accidental dashes

[small timber]

it is less that the suggestion is instantly invalidated, it is more that you get less votes, but ya

[soft quest]

Oh I hate those

So annoying when building

[versed cape]

why do nohitters get silenced tho

truly the most oppressed minority

[small timber]

the tldr is nohitters argument tend to be based on "cannot make mistake" (though in this case accidental dash is just shit in general)

with things like "nerf scal and yharon damage please" etc, when with proper gear you actually can almost tank them

it is basically prejudice

[versed cape]

I tanked yharon with preML gear so true

[hollow shell]

byeah general opinions have soured against no-hitting over time
Cuz it's a specific challenge that ignores a lot of the game's content

(ignores defense & survivability content during fights, and tends to dismiss non-boss content overall)

mnl?

[small timber]

mnl is an extremely shitty argument

minimum nohit length

[hollow shell]

I see.

[small timber]

basically the least amount of time you are allowed to get a nohit verified (aka melt limit)

because mnl are half of the killtime bosses are balanced around, sometimes 1/3 even

exo mechs kill time on tester is 6 minutes, meanwhile their mnl is 2:30 for nohit, it is a meltfest

[hollow shell]

Cuz, yeah if you're not using defense gear then you're playing glass cannon, and when you are not getting hit then the cannon part becomes particularly apparent

[fossil finch]

mnl isnt even a real thing lmao

its just the arbitrary limit set for the rules

[cobalt pewter]

mnl is a figment of your imagination

[small timber]

storm weaver mnl is 45 seconds or something

[cobalt pewter]

wake up

[small timber]

it is not a thing you ever want to based suggestions or even argument around about

no that is called bullshit

because they didn't adjust storm weaver mnl after it got reworked

it is as artifical as it gets

[frosty trellis]

Can I ask what is being argued here?

[hollow shell]

Technically the intended kill time is not a solid definition either
Testers balance around it, but now that we've (THANKFULLY) removed RDR and Timed Aggression, there is no in-game thing defining what the intended kill time of any given thing is

Kinda getting off topic I suppose

Started cuz the dash tap suggestion mentioned no-hitting

[cobalt pewter]

because they're not the correct demographic for the game's balance

[frosty trellis]

I don't hate nohitters, just justifying anything based on nohit setups or for nohit reasons is bullshit

[small timber]

I dont think people really "hate" nohitters, it is more that nohitters often use nohitting as arugment instead of just normal arguments

such as things like mnl, which is artificial

[cobalt pewter]

nohitters live, smoke and die by massive optimization and potential abuse, only limited by the arbitrary MNLs

[small timber]

(red is mnl, black is the testers' balanced killtime)

[frosty trellis]

Less than
There is way less than 10k nohitters
There are less than 1k nohitters

[hollow shell]

(where did you get this image cuz it seems useful)

[small timber]

red one is the nohitter doc, the black one is Altix's killtime list I think

[frosty trellis]

Yep

That would be the one

[hollow shell]

Where can one obtain the latter

[frosty trellis]

Lemme grab Altix's stuff for you Rover

[hollow shell]

aight thx

[small timber]

(killtime list) #calamity-update-talk message
(nohitter doc) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1y8eSOFCE1Yikp9SlNkXrJUVH3FBPe4aEuxUKjUpwAFc/edit#

[frosty trellis]

Or that

Lol

Ty Xpc

[tardy smelt]

Very often nohits end up being melt/abusefests, 'tis sad to see

[small timber]

yeah

[hollow shell]

Oh this is a little outdated cuz it mentions Sentinel Phase

[small timber]

minmaxing is fine, just often nohitter argument tend to completely ignore the fact that defense or even more than 1 max hp exist

[hollow shell]

But thank you regardless they are useful metrics

[tardy smelt]

Not by definition

[small timber]

I assume the sentinel phase is just deducted from DoG kill time (since I thought I asked Altix about it?), though he think he did say it should still be accurate

yeah DoG total is 4 min so should still be accurate (phase 1 1:30, phase 2 2:30)

[tardy smelt]

Insert that one guy who stalled Yharon for 2 minutes in Phase 1, then at 55% grabbed Cosmic Discharge, popped adrenaline and melted all the way to 4% hp or somethig

Yeah

Stalling and phaseskipping

That was on another level though

[small timber]

oh right, partial reason is maybe many people who claim they nohit every single boss in destiny mode are like, wing slot antisocial luiafk buffers

(which probably contribute to why people just dislike nohitter arguments)

[tardy smelt]

trutru

very often on nohits I abstain from using it entirely

since otherwise things just die

[small timber]

but they are still "nohitters" as they claim, I think you get it

[tardy smelt]

they're nohitters by definition

[small timber]

people will argue "if they kill all bosses without getting hit they are nohitter", there are people who legit complain that with nohit rule they cannot star cannon delete desert scourge in 5 seconds don't count as a valid nohit

and instead they claim nohit rule is bullshit and they are legit nohitters

[tardy smelt]

are they well.... do you wanna call it "skillful" nohitters, though?

[small timber]

so yes, they are still nohitters

[tardy smelt]

^

[tardy smelt]

maybe they are skilled at the game, but won't give the boss in question a fighting chance

because that benefits the nohit

I've seen it on a handful of Infernum endgame nohits

[small timber]

so ya, when this type of nohitter come here to claim things are too easy you can probably imagine why they are not really welcomed (and contrinuted to the whole "no nohitter" prejudice)

[frosty trellis]

From testing shit out on dog myself I can indeed confirm dog is def 4 minutes total

[small timber]

at least it is a lot better now that nohitter roles are no longer a main thing

[frosty trellis]

Yeah

[small timber]

but ya, tldr is just no matter if you are nohitter or not try not to base argument around nohitting, it is not balanced in the game system in anyway

it is not a choice of build, it is the fact that nohitters sacrifice every aspect of defense and max hp in order to gamble on perfecting bosses through purely repeating attempts, and get exceptional dps from that

[frosty trellis]

Mhm

Especially since some weapons scale WAY more off of DPS than some others and it's not balanced around such

[small timber]

yeah

(there is also the other half for even legit nohitter in nohit cord, where they get 200% movement speed and balloon jump to the other side of the map, though at least with malice removal it is no longer norm)

so ya even among nohitters in nohit cord, not all of them will be showing their skill

[frosty trellis]

Yeah

[small timber]

(trust me there is a LOT of DQed nohits from melt or running away from one side of the map to the other)

[frosty trellis]

Once I get the motivation to get back to nohitting I need to redo KS and SG then I plan to just go full ripperless when I nohit because after doing ripperless testing it's a ton more fun

[frosty trellis]

Let me guess, folly, DoG and Exos?

[small timber]

I think PG ravager are common case, I see a lot of deus too

ravager is more for falling the entire map

[frosty trellis]

Dues right yeah

[frosty trellis]

Ah yes the illegal fallgoding

[small timber]

or head melt (ravager and golem), leviathan and anahita duo phase also often have 1 melted

[frosty trellis]

That's why I haven't installed the nohit world

So I don't fallgod by accident

[small timber]

and of course also melting all exo mechs duo and trio phase; people legit complain more about thanatos solo than duo and trio

simply because they completely melt all duo and trio so they dont matter

constantly slime mount falling/just falling etc with unreasonable arena setup to invalidate bosses

[frosty trellis]

Falling down through the entire map

And Exos

Exos being the big one

No fallgoding Exos

[frosty trellis]

Tbf Berserk Thanatos is also overtuned and thankfully getting nerfed soon

(Although if you want an easier time with Thanatos just use Statis's Void Sash and Celestial Tracers over Aegis and Drew's)

It's opening and closing segments thing is really annoying tbf

[tardy smelt]

I ruthlessly evaluate every ravager nohit submitted to the nohit discord for its worth

[frosty trellis]

Yeah Celestial Tracers help with that

[small timber]

not sure if the link work https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/512925739486674954/1005637885325758525/rav_fallgod.gif

[inner anvil]

Nerfed next update.

[tardy smelt]

they shall not invalidate my boy

[small timber]

oh ya it do work luckily

[frosty trellis]

Since they inherit movement speed buffs more drastically

[royal tapir]

Twisted amalgamation of flesh and bone my beloved 😊

[frosty trellis]

Celestial Tracers are unironically better than Drew's wing

[small timber]

it is said that every 5 attempts, 4 ravager head get melted, truely a sad moment

[frosty trellis]

Like after using them on Exos my god it's so nice having the extra horizontal movement speed for the trio phase

And Thanatos

[tardy smelt]

[frosty trellis]

It's not really "hating on wings" just celestial tracers are legitimately better than Drew's wings

[tardy smelt]

the world we live in

[frosty trellis]

You don't need the flight time from Drew's, you get extra iframes with celestial and the horizontal movement speed is insane

[small timber]

yeah I done a whole thing about how tracer is just better than wings at horizontal movement speed, for some reason

[frosty trellis]

Yeah

Which is odd

Exos and SCal are the only fights I would ever use tracers in

Simply because pre prov lunar wing damage, pre polter tarragon wing defense, pre dog Elysian wings help me stay close to his head better for maximum damage while going up, and for Yharon generally you want the flight time and vertical speed (for literally everyone but xpc)

Also void sash is unironically better than Aegis for Exos and SCal but that's a different argument for another day

[orchid wing]

#suggestions-posting message
"IT IS GENERALLY DISTRACTING" 😳📷

[frosty trellis]

"This accessory is pretty much needed at this point of progression"

Yeah Imma call complete bullshit on that

Considering I don't use it and I am more than fine without it

[lethal prism]

Hote is kinda a meme item

[grim tusk]

@eternal fern install Fargo’s mutant for transparency, also HotE aint a must pick

[orchid wing]

I am pretty sure they dont need it for the progression reasons...

[grim tusk]

[lethal prism]

The knowledge that if you die, your 5 wives disappear

Makes you play better

[orchid wing]

The knowledge that if you die, your 5 wives will wake up in about 15-20 seconds in the same room as you...

[lethal prism]

Forget about nohitting

Time to allhit

[unique vector]

weird reasons

i support this suggestion tho it may not ever pass

its Really Weird to call female body parts distracting and hote being “necessary” is a stretch but i vibe with the rest of this sugg

[small timber]

(I dont know why but the suggestion remind me of this exact image)

[grim tusk]

:nohorny:

[lethal prism]

I like how Yharim's face is discord shaped

[grim tusk]

That aint Yharim

[lethal prism]

Ik it's the lorde

But I didn't want to name the dead meme

[safe oasis]

good sugg bad reasoning

grr

[half sage]

a) no future content suggestions
b) they've already decided what they're doing with rod of harmony, it's being tier shifted to shadowspec tier

[neat linden]

and the debuff is very specific

[small timber]

rod of harmony is not in tmod yet, no suggestion for it, simple as that

[neat linden]

so the sugg is just no

[small timber]

and they say something about moving it post-game anyway so it doesn't matter (as in possibly even post-BR)

[eternal escarp]

@formal temple ^

[hollow shell]

Do not make suggestions about vanilla's 1.4.4 update (Labor of Love) until both tModLoader and Calamity become compatible with it.

[lethal prism]

What is BR?

[hollow shell]

Boss Rush

[hybrid steeple]

terraria players try not to assume calamity will nerf new things into the ground challenge (100% fail)

[frail mantle]

we did a vote and we landed on shadowspec tier

so post draedon and scal, pre boss rush

[bitter dove]

that sounds like a valid tier tbh cause RoH is pretty op (however you still need RoD atleast if you wanna fight AEW right?)

[frail mantle]

yes

[gray nebula]

aew is crine so a

[crude geode]

so true

[formal temple]

Fair enough ig

[swift wharf]

aew isnt a boss

getoutofmyheadgetoutofmyheadgetoutofmyhead

[frosty trellis]

You're right.
He's everyone's beloved Jared < 3

[crude geode]

[swift frigate]

Who's jared

[crude geode]

someone that doesn’t exist, clearly

[swift frigate]

But fr who is he

[hollow shell]

joke nickname for adult eidolon wyrm

[swift frigate]

Ook

Fair

@hollow shell

[hollow shell]

Looks like someone got it

[novel belfry]

Honestly, the Rod of Harmony appears to have been designed specifically because you've literally beaten the (vanilla) game, so there's not really much else to do

although I cannot make a suggestion about it yet, it might be funny to have the RoD transmutation into the RoH only available when you beat the Boss Rush or Adult Eidolon Worm
that sounds like a fair compromise for the ability to teleport at anytime

[hollow shell]

Yes we are already planning on moving it to Calamity's postgame as was said earlier
Current plan has it post-SCal/Drae though, so available for BR

We'll see how it is once we get there though

No idea how long it'll take for tMod to update

[novel belfry]

i feel like its too busted for BR

and plus BR really needs a update

[fossil finch]

thing is br is not really being considered for anything rn

[frosty trellis]

It would make terminus scal a ton easier

[hollow shell]

@vocal gust A fine suggestion but your title could be more specific to your actual point. You could directly suggest that more tomes be given a page-flipping hold-out animation, rather than using the vague "act like"

[vocal gust]

I also thought that the title was not very explicit but I don't know what to replace it with

maybe: Add a similar animation like Rancor and Heresy for other magic books.

[frosty trellis]

That sounds good

And while they're at it buff heresy please it is so bad

[ashen warren]

could maybe put

make magic tomes animations feel more unique

[vocal gust]

good one

[ashen warren]

rn they are just the holdout use animation for most of em

[frosty trellis]

Make Magic Tome animations feel more unique (similar to Rancor and Heresy)

I think would be better to give immediate examples of what you mean

[vocal gust]

mage class is one of the most boring calamity class but it's still my favorite so I just want to make it more unique and good

[frosty trellis]

That is extremely subjective

As I love mage

[hollow shell]

I would give the Boring Award to ranger, personally

[vocal gust]

the tittle must be good because some people don't read the description if the tittle is not interesting

[frosty trellis]

Same here

[vocal gust]

+1

[frosty trellis]

Ranger it just shoot things

[vocal gust]

I never play ranger btw 😅

[hollow shell]

Pixl had some big plans for enhancing the magic class
But...

[unborn oriole]

Ranger is just hold LMB and wait for the kill

[hollow shell]

yeah not sure what's gonna happen with those

[crude geode]

They were pretty grand in scale

[frosty trellis]

Melee has unique weapons like Ark and Biome Blade and the whole true melee stuff
Ranger is just pew pew with very little if anything special or unique outside clockwork bow
Mage has like 80,000 different mage weapons with different ways to attack and it's cool
Summoner is either whipping shit or letting your cool friends kill stuff (or both)
Rogue is stealth strikes for beeeg numbers after you wait a bit and can feel rewarding

Ranger is clearly the most boring

[hollow shell]

take: the Endless ammos were objectively damaging to ranger being an interesting class

[frosty trellis]

Hence besides endless musket pouch and quiver I don't use that

[crude geode]

the damage numbers on ammo were damaging as well

[frail mantle]

mage

more like the subclassless class

[crude geode]

So true

[frosty trellis]

And endless quiver is bad anyways because luminite arrows exist and are better

[vocal gust]

but ?

[frosty trellis]

For every arrow convert weapon

[hollow shell]

Ranger coulda been the longer-term resource management class, ammo being a resource that cannot be easily replenished mid-combat, unlike mana or stealth

[unborn oriole]

The one morbillion types of weapons class

[hollow shell]

but nah, Endless Pouch and Quiver
No more management

[frosty trellis]

Endless pouch is good for a few weapons

And Quiver is just outright bad

Because Luminite Arrows

[frail mantle]

society if ammo base damage fucking died

[frosty trellis]

I mean Luminite Arrows double your damage outright due to their secondary effect

[hollow shell]

But:

[hollow shell]

this

[crude geode]

I do kind of feel like mage could use like. more variety instead of just. 50th laser machine gun/waterbolt

It feels like there’s a lot less one off weapon types in cal compared to vanilla

[hollow shell]

Yeah cuz Cal was born off of derivative content
'[vanilla thing] but cooler'

[crude geode]

Yeah true lol

[unborn oriole]

Just add more last prisms, What could possibly go wrong?

[hollow shell]

Problem very slowly getting resolved over time with reworks

[crude geode]

Yeah

(Coral Sprout my beloved)

[frosty trellis]

The ray line
Hellium Flash
Rancor
Heresy
Slithering Eels
Nuclear Fury
Divine Retribution
Victriolic Vipor
Fate's Reveal

Off the top of my head for more unique weapons

[crude geode]

Nuclear Fury original

[hollow shell]

(Fate's Reveal is Nebula Arcanum)

[crude geode]

Nuclear Fury literally copies the projectile from razorblade typhoon and just. duplicates it a couple times

[frosty trellis]

No...?

What

I literally tested it no

[unborn oriole]

Nuclear fury is really just Razorblade Typhoon⁸

[hollow shell]

wait fuck I'm thinkin of the other polter magic wep

[frosty trellis]

Nebula Arcanum is the old stratus sphere that was removed

[fossil finch]

fates reveal is not nebula arcanum fates reveal is bori

[frail mantle]

what the fuck is a fate's reveal again

[hollow shell]

Ghastly Visage is Nebula Arcanum.

[frosty trellis]

Even the other one isn't nebula arcanum it's just a shoot bad projectile that does no damage

[fossil finch]

anyways the Razorblade line is awesome it should be coole

[crude geode]

Aside from rancor and heresy, a lot of these have derivatives

Helium Flash is LITERALLY just inferno fork

[hollow shell]

Ah I think Ghastly got reworked a bit recently, I don't remember it being that high-velocity

[crude geode]

But big

[frosty trellis]

Polter staff that summons a bunch of Ghastly Flames that are placed on the cursor that home in on enemies like Guidlight of Oblivion

[frail mantle]

guh

[hollow shell]

Not super unique but I suppose it has no direct vanilla equivalent

[frail mantle]

this thing has been in the mod for ages and i completely forgot it exists

[frosty trellis]

AND IT'S BAD

[hollow shell]

lol

[frosty trellis]

Look at the remaining health Rover

[hollow shell]

Lol, Lmao

[frosty trellis]

I mean, you want to see something truly god awful?

[crude geode]

Even if it doesn’t have a direct vanilla equivalent it can have direct cal equivalents

(Like most of the cal weapons listed as unique )

[frosty trellis]

May I present you Rover and Kur
The single worst weapon in calamity mod for it's tier

[frail mantle]

[unborn oriole]

Idea

[frosty trellis]

This absolutely disgustingly bad weapon

[unborn oriole]

Obliterate the Gladius.

[frosty trellis]

YES

Just kill Galileo Gladius

[hollow shell]

That is fine imo
Calamity can have derivatives of its own content all it likes
It's still offering a unique experience compared to vanilla overall

[unborn oriole]

Or make it normal Gladius and good

[hollow shell]

My main gripe is with anything that is too similar to vanilla

(in a way that is not intentional or necessary, that is)

[frosty trellis]

Well then it might not be the best idea to bring up shadowbolt staff which is one of the best mage weapons for DoG rn-

[novel belfry]

True Melee Galileo
It also swings like its vanilla counterpart

[unborn oriole]

True

[novel belfry]

i feel like it'd be still useless but true melee is still chad melee

[umbral dew]

couldnt galileo gladius be made a transparent star sword with increased range to compensate

[unborn oriole]

And keep it's on hit effect

[unborn oriole]

Lame

[frosty trellis]

Just kill Galileo

Or just obsurdly buff it

It needs like terror blade levels of buffs

[hollow shell]

Weirdly specific suggestion to be following a "couldnt", as if it was obvious

[unborn oriole]

Or rework it :DD

[hollow shell]

rrrrrgg Terror Blade
Now that there's a fucking ""melee"" weapon

[umbral dew]

terror blade trivia section is outdated on wiki.gg

[hollow shell]

pff

[crude geode]

Ray line is pretty unique
Helium Flash-INFERNO FORK and also the things used to craft it. It's just those things but bigger. wow originality
Rancor- would be more unique if working against blocks had a use against endgame bosses
Heresy- I like it but it doesn't do THAT much unique compared to some other weapons
Slithering Eels- has a downgrade like two seconds earlier in serpentine
Nuclear Fury- Razorblade Typhoon
Divine Retribution- some donor loved Undine's Retribution so much they wanted a post ml version
Vitriolic Viper- poison/venom staff
Fate's Reveal- wow hyphae rod but not shit

not to say vanilla doesn't do this bullshit too, but they also have more one off weapons to compensate

Coral Sprout, Blood Thorn, Tome of Infinite Wisdom, pretty much everything to do with Eol, Reasonance Staff are all one off weapons that are wonderfully unique but don't overstay their welcome unlike other things

I won't claim vanilla doesn't do this (nimbus rod/crimson rod, the two flowers, flamelash/rainbow rod/magic missile)

[hollow shell]

(The effectiveness of Rancor's usecase doesn't have any bearing on its uniqueness)

[crude geode]

true

byeah

[umbral dew]

gruesome eminence

[crude geode]

the post scal weapons are nice but it's a rarity

[umbral dew]

imo gruesome eminence is the peak of mage

its an amazingly unique weapon

[grim tusk]

(Spoiler: nerfed next patch )

[crude geode]

lolol

[gilded scroll]

rip, guess my suggestion didnt pass

i thought it was a good idea lol

[hollow shell]

which suggestion?

[gilded scroll]

my suggestion about being able to assign different ammos to different guns/bows (like cursed bullets for one gun, and holy fire bullets for another)

[ruby plover]

i think that would be super mechanically complicated to make work

codewise, i mean

[gilded scroll]

ah, that sucks...

[errant cloud]

I just tabbed into here but

Terror Blade rework when /s

[frosty trellis]

Testing killtime

And with full DPS and mechanic abuse the fastest Optrix got with it is 29 seconds which is obscene

On tier gear as well

[hollow shell]

Does either killtime make use of the fact that the beams bounce and explode, or is it all direct beam hits and true meleeing

[frosty trellis]

The terror blade projectile has infinite pierce so it takes advantage of that

My arena has walls but I'm almost never right there when fighting DoG and optrix's time was in the nohit world so no walls period

[hollow shell]

Funny

So it may as well have had no gimmick at all
Just raw beamsword

[frosty trellis]

The gimmick is cool and all just it's not practical in the case of DoG

If I changes my arena up it would be cool for Old Duke and would 100% take advantage of that

It's also funny for Thanatos

[hollow shell]

@lofty yarrow Not the best reasoning
You ever heard of "sneaking around" before?

[cobalt pewter]

my cheeks are too phat for sneaking around

but yes

sneak is a thing

[small timber]

(and also I think a rename.stealt suggestion with better reasoninghad been passed)

[cobalt pewter]

actually that too

was about to say that

at least I know a dev acknowledged it

but there's no telling when it'll happen

[hollow shell]

The better reasoning for renaming stealth would be because the actual 'stealth' aspect of the mechanic is the least significant part of it
Very few enemies, and zero bosses, are affected by the player being invisible (on their own)

It is primarily used for stealth strikes
Ceasing attack for a given period of time to 'charge up' a more powerful single attack

[hollow shell]

So it should probably be renamed to something like "Focus"

[cobalt pewter]

(granted this sugg's explanation would age like milk once next update drops)

(since invis no longer boosts rogue stats and shadow isn't invisibility anymore

[hollow shell]

indeed

[drowsy plank]

invis potions now lower spawn rates too, so it was def gonna be weird if invis stuck around as a rogue boost tbh

[cobalt pewter]

in 1.4.4?

or just cal

[crude geode]

problem

[cobalt pewter]

I didn't even read about that invis potion buff

[hollow shell]

is this actually a problem or were you meaning to point out something else with that reply

[crude geode]

nah I was meaning to point that out

byeah it's kinda minor

[hollow shell]

Wynncraft is not a Terraria mod

[crude geode]

oh really

weird

[hollow shell]

Ian was making just a joke he was

[cobalt pewter]

god

[crude geode]

fair

[lofty yarrow]

but ur flying around and the boss clearly sees u

[hollow shell]

If you're sitting still, the boss also clearly sees you

and is probably already hitting you

[lofty yarrow]

so ur not really stealthy either way

[hollow shell]

Indeed

Boss AI has zero acknowledgement for not knowing where the player is

[cobalt pewter]

aggro in terraria doesn't provide enough for stealth to work as it should be

[hollow shell]

They are permanently omniscient of your position

[lofty yarrow]

ye

[cobalt pewter]

at most preboss, since Fighter AIs

[lofty yarrow]

i still think they should change the name tho

[hollow shell]

indeed, a few devs n testers also feel that way

[lofty yarrow]

oh

ok

[lavish condor]

Isn't aggro's main purpose multiplayer?

[hollow shell]

byeah that's when it finds most use

player targeting priority

[drowsy plank]

oh sorry, yes, a 1.4.4 thing

[hollow shell]

(actually it was in 1.4.0, so current Cal too)

[cobalt pewter]

real

[frosty trellis]

Mhm

I used it in my original 1.4 run and it's great

[drowsy plank]

wacky

[frosty trellis]

Cog that's how I knew to tell you that these existed lmao

[drowsy plank]

i did not realize i thought you just scoured the wiki frequently like i do

[frosty trellis]

Oh I do as well
I just found it on my original pt and just used the wiki to show you

[drowsy plank]

nice

@surreal field you're supposed to ping a tester in here for weapon balancing

but also

what??

lmfao

[surreal field]

ok so me and my friend are rn playing calamity and im teaching him the mod and he decides to go ranged and this man bought a boomstick and up until wall of flesh he used boomstick and that thing was hittin

like hitting hitting

idk if it was just me not being used to boomstick or if it was just hitting hard but

[drowsy plank]

lmao

ok regardless just

ping a tester about it

[drowsy plank]

it's in the pins

[surreal field]

thxs ngl forgot that existed

[small timber]

pretty sure boomstick is like, not wall of flesh viable

[surreal field]

it isnt

[small timber]

it continuously hitting but are you sure it deal damage

then what is there to nerf about it

[surreal field]

its viable up until slime god

[small timber]

I mean minishark is viable up until slime god, that is not much

[surreal field]

true

[small timber]

if boomsticks kills slime god exceptionally fast then it is a different deal
being viable generally is not a super significant indicator, especially pre-HM

enemies just have much less stat bloat

since even a 4 minute fight can be considered viable

I will just use it real quick, slime god right?

(since you havent ping yet)

[surreal field]

yeah

[grim tusk]

@lofty yarrow if only we found something that sounded good, cuz there’s been plenty of ideas but none were satisfying enough and sounded weird

@eternal escarp might want to take a look at boomstick when you wake up

[small timber]

is rusty medallion use in pre-HM ranger testing?

since its debuff kinda is a bit too good

[grim tusk]

Nah

[grim tusk]

Well at least Rusty medallion aint ass anymore

Altho i wonder how the irradiated inflicting pre-hm weapons are atm

I’ll probably get to bile container or however the fuck it was called

soon

[small timber]

it is 10 dps per second, if it is focal point of the weapon it probably isnt that good

but if it is slapped onto all weapon (eg: abyssal amulet and rusty medallion case) I assume it is too good

[grim tusk]

Nah that sound okay-ish but still needs to be checked

[drowsy plank]

did rusty get some kind of buff?

[grim tusk]

Indirect from Irradiated getting buffed

[drowsy plank]

oh

[small timber]

what does ranger even use for damage in pre-HM
or I just go STN, terraspark, aerostone, BOB + 1

[drowsy plank]

so it's still awful

yeah p much that

[small timber]

ranger actually dont have proper damage boost huh, guess I will slot skyline wing or something

[drowsy plank]

abyssal amulet is still leages ahead of rusty medallion

the entire accessory is just flawed by design

[grim tusk]

All class stuff like l*xors, prism, both stns, rotten brain

[small timber]

I guess I will put luxor, rotten brain is conditional

ok is silver bullet the best pre-HM bullet or something else?

I know flash round is good but it screw the DPS a lot

for boomstick specifically, so meteor shot or superball might have iframe issue

ok this is worth pinging

@grim tusk slime god is affected by confused

I used realise it when I use flash round

so they just run the other way

[grim tusk]

I think we’ve patched that on the beta ages ago

[small timber]

ok at least it is not mod conflict on my end

[grim tusk]

Try party rounds then

[small timber]

but ya this means I cant use flash round, so superball or meteor shot?

I guess I can try party

[grim tusk]

Superball could also work

[small timber]

I always thought it is a HM bullet that is accessible pre-HM (for some reason)

[grim tusk]

Pigronnata moment

[small timber]

but ya from current looks of it I dont even think I will call it viable

the damage is just really bad, unless abyssal amulet or something is used

[surreal field]

alr im just trippin then

or as one would say

"jit trippin"

[small timber]

or if adrenaline is use

by which adrenaline is not something calamity is actively balanced around

but at the sametime adrenaline makes everything viable

[surreal field]

factual

copper shortsword against providence is super viable

wooden sword against supreme cal is viable too

[small timber]

I know I am not playing optimally, but ya

this is the "4 minute = viable" kind of viable

[surreal field]

LETS GO IT IS VIABLE

[small timber]

(and I used party bullet, a HM bullet for it, because silver/superball dps is unbearable)

[surreal field]

if you were to use superball

what is the time ETA

if you had to guess

[small timber]

probably 5-6

maybe longer

[surreal field]

so its viable is what your telling me

ok bet

gonna go do a boomstick only run

[grim tusk]

StN and luxors being funny moment, without those its dmg would prob be ass

So its probably fine

[small timber]

ok superball have iframe issues with boomstick

thats why it is not viable even if I fight it in BoC arena

[surreal field]

nanoblack reaper isnt viable with king slime

[small timber]

are you sure your friend is not using bullet-filled shotgun instead?

or quadbarrel shotgun

[surreal field]

idek its been like 1 hour since the original conversation abt the boomstick

is bulletfilled shotgun good even?

[grim tusk]

Its crazy

Esp with armor pen

[small timber]

bullet filled is funny yeah

and I am 100% sure I didnt use the optimal bullet for bulletfilled, since I heard it is exceptionally good with a bullet, but I forgot what it is

[surreal field]

oh my lord

[hollow shell]

armor pen is the closest thing we got to flat damage boosts
so
anything with low base damage and high proj count will get crazy armor pen benefits

[grim tusk]

It converts bullets so basically the one with the highest base dmg

[small timber]

ok party should be correct then

[grim tusk]

The optimal build for bullet filled shotgun is prob:
Wings/BoB
SoC/C.Scarf
Stinger necklace
Sharktooth necklace
Granite Core

Full lucky

Granted thats a highly offensive build and doesnt have that much else going for it (slow movement too)

[distant gyro]

why party bullets

[grim tusk]

You’d usually run:
Wings/BoB
SoC/C.Scarf
Terraspark
Stinger necklace
Filler

2 W / 2 M/L / 1 Q

[grim tusk]

Highest base dmg bullet available on pre-hm

[distant gyro]

i swear that bullet never exists

also did acceleration round got nerfed

i thought that's higher

[surreal field]

whats the best pre plantera ammo

[grim tusk]

Oh yea its 11

Vs 10

[distant gyro]

cursed bullet's the best

[grim tusk]

Subjective but its Cursed, Inferno or Verium

[small timber]

musket convert works for both silver bullet and musket ball right?

[grim tusk]

Bullet-filled converts all

[small timber]

ok that should be all shotguns covered

[small timber]

was referring to aquashard, but ya I think it do convert silver

(also quadbarrel feels so shit to play eventhough it is not half bad, it definitely need autofire)

a combination of garbage accuracy and no autofire make the weapons feels unviable eventhough dps wise it is good

[surreal field]

isnt aqua shard the upgrade to boomstick

?

[small timber]

which is why I asked are you sure the "shotgun" you see is boomstick

because aquashard is actually viable while boomstick is definitely not for slime god

[cobalt pewter]

1.4.4 is funny once it's on tmod and cal :clueles

peak config

[small timber]

cirrus dress + alcohol spam waiting room

44 buff slots

[cobalt pewter]

if they don't wanna revert the buff slots buff, I can already see they'll magnify the alcohol poisoning effect

[drowsy plank]

cirrus dress viable???? real???

[grim tusk]

everclear

[small timber]

(nohitter neuron activation moment)

[cobalt pewter]

holy fuck

[grim tusk]

7/10 not all potions

[small timber]

(I only included the one that works with bloody mary, but ya more can be included)

since I only slapped alcohols onto a character that has normal potions prepared

ok I think I definitely missed some, but ya

it is truly a nohitter wet dream moment

[grim tusk]

Evergreen gin

[small timber]

if more sickness and water based debuff are added then yes maybe

currently there are just not that many, and many of them are weapon/accessory specific

(and many sickness and water debuff are quite weak too, maybe except for crush depth)

[grim tusk]

Acid venom is strong as shit too

[eternal escarp]

vanilla item, 1.4.4 will balance them
i see no point balancing vanilla for it to be null soon

[cobalt pewter]

would cal add the vanilla change with the shotgun-type weapons tho

(quad barrel and hex doll have at least one of their projectiles aiming directly towards the cursor)

[hollow shell]

Station buffs are semi-permanent in 1.4.4 right?

[cobalt pewter]

yeah

permanent until death

plus you'll never need every single stations in a single pt

[hollow shell]

I guess the boss arena case still applies then cuz you'll be dying a lot
But uhh yeah

[cobalt pewter]

if cal wants to make them entirely permanent, sure

[hollow shell]

@full basalt Under what circumstance will you need benefits for all 4 classes w/ station buffs?

Melee armor pen, ranger ammo conservation, mage mana.. stats, and an extra minion?

[full basalt]

The extra minion is nice

[neat linden]

i can understand extra minion even as non summoner focused player

but other 3?

only if you're using weapons from all 4 classes at the same time but why

[full basalt]

it's more so for the bewitching table to be combined with the others

no matter what class you choose, the table is always used

[hollow shell]

Wow you have turned 2 clicks into 1 click
6 tiles into 3 tiles

[full basalt]

I sometimes use vamp knives with the other classes

[hollow shell]

And clogged up your buffbar

[neat linden]

if you use them for healing, do you absolutely need that AP

[full basalt]

ap?

[hollow shell]

armor penetration

[full basalt]

oh armor pen

It's better than nothing

idk, I just think for some niche situtations it could be nice to have

but yeah I see your point

[hollow shell]

You should add to your sugg's reasoning with the points you mentioned here

if you're keepin it

(also your title could be more descriptive)

[golden kayak]

Donuts are wonky but I never had visibility problems with them personally
That's a provi issue

The safe window would make them pretty pathetic though

Also some of their projectiles do only 1 damage for whatever reason but that is unrelated

[crude geode]

temporal

[small timber]

profaned guardian is definitely one of the most patternized fight in the game

the nerf sufficiently unbullshit-fied the fight a lot, the spear easier to see maybe (though even that I dont feel like is necessary), but because of how pattern based the fight is the "not do damage 0.5 seconds after it spawn" make absolutely 0 sense

it is not exactly like scal bullet hell where things are spawning in thin air (which is why the "0.5 second no damage timer" is given, for profaned guardian it is spawned from the guardian themselves

[small timber]

I will not claim without prove so here is 2 clips of pg

I will not let people slander profaned guardian, it is definitely a fine fight now

[cobalt pewter]

I think the toughest thing with Guardians is trying to hit the god damned healer

once that one dies the fight is just a breeze

[versed cape]

@formal temple rod of harmony should not just allow you to chain teleport anywhere like vanilla rod

No one cares its “gimmick” of being op gets ruined

[small timber]

(they are moving it to shadowspec tier)

at least planned to

[small timber]

but ya, either way since it is suggestion for content that is not yet in tmod it is thia ^

[versed cape]

Thats not enough

[small timber]

(wait no)

[small timber]

^

[frail mantle]

it is

[versed cape]

It should be craftable with the rock from BR

[frail mantle]

rod of harmony is fine as a postgame item

[small timber]

because shadowspec tire is basically post every relevant game in the content

[frail mantle]

in calamity it just needs to be moved to where calamity's postgame is

[small timber]

but ya, I do agree it should be post-BR or something but it will be a bit weird (basically force people to do BR for the rod of harmony)

[frail mantle]

which is shadowspec tier

[versed cape]

Else BR and AEW get cheesed to no end

[frail mantle]

boss rush isn't important enough for the funny rod to be locked behind it

neither is aew

[small timber]

I think the main thing is just the later which makes it extremely unintuitive

[frail mantle]

and aew probably won't stay a superboss forever

[small timber]

99% of people skip boss rush after they done all bosses in the game

[frail mantle]

boss rush is supposed to not give you anything actually useful

[small timber]

or make it shadowspec but make BR itself impose a rod of harmony nerf

also works

[versed cape]

So youd rather just have people doing the boss for the first time accidentally become nohitters because its postgame?

[frail mantle]

that's the whole reason the Rock exists and does the exact amount of nothing it does

[versed cape]

Sure but it needs something

[frail mantle]

not really

boss rush is supposed to be an optional challenge

[small timber]

^I think ideal is maybe just this

[frail mantle]

locking content behind it would make people feel obligated to go through the 20 minute slog it is

[versed cape]

If you want to, let BR add rock and and harmony itself

[small timber]

since locking it behind BR is definitely not a good solution

[versed cape]

10*

[frail mantle]

we don't want to nerf it because that goes against the point of the item

[versed cape]

Optional cheese*

[small timber]

with how much of a complete clusterfuck meltfest current BR is it is only relevant for nohitters who are doing it for the nohit role

[small timber]

by which the nohit cord can just straight up ban it themselves

[versed cape]

So what? Calamity changes vanilla items a ton because they are bad, dumb or unbalanced in some other way

[frail mantle]

boss rush is supposed to be 20 minutes

[versed cape]

Literally no idea how you get a 15-25 min BR

[tardy smelt]

Based as always xpc

[frail mantle]

by doing it normally

right now boss rush balance is in a wacky state because nobody wants to rebalance it

[small timber]

it is definitely meant to be that long yeah

[frail mantle]

and fab wants to redo the order anyway

[small timber]

the nohitter 9:30 is so people dont go insane, and at 9:30 literal 90% of bosses get melted 100-0

[frail mantle]

harmony isn't unbalanced is the thing

[small timber]

if every boss is supposed to have a chance it will definitely be ~20 minutes

[frail mantle]

you get it at a point in vanilla where balance doesn't matter because there's nothing important left to do

and so in calamity it'll be moved accordingly

[versed cape]

Same thing with zenith and it got strongly rebalanced

[frail mantle]

it did not

it just got moved

[crude geode]

^

Literally just got moved

[versed cape]

Which is a rebalance

??

[frail mantle]

not a single balance change was necessary

[frail mantle]

no

it isnt

none of its stats were changed in any way

[small timber]

they didnt touch zenith in anyway iirc

[versed cape]

Which isnt necessary to be rebalanced

[frail mantle]

literally the only thing that happened to it was that it got auric bars

[versed cape]

Yeah it got rebalanced because it was too op post ML

[cobalt pewter]

Zenith only got Auric bar for a proper retier, stats never changed in any way

[versed cape]

= rebalance

[frail mantle]

a retier is not a rebalance

[cobalt pewter]

and Rod of Harmony is very likely to be the same case as well

hopefully they don't mess with Terraformer tho

[frail mantle]

if moving the zenith back counts as rebalancing it then moving rod of harmony back counts as nerfing it

[versed cape]

Based on what? Did you invent a definition for it that everyone uses?

[versed cape]

Completely true

[cobalt pewter]

my brother in Christ dude is a tester

:clueless:

[frail mantle]

based on what i count as a rebalance

other people might not

but i consider rebalancing something to be changing its stats

[versed cape]

So what

[frail mantle]

which did not happen in any way for the zenith

[small timber]

there are 2 approach possible: either move it shadowspec and buff it (making it post-game), or to give it auric bar recipe but dont touch it (making you still use it for relevant content in the game)

zenith is introduced at a time where it still at least have a semblance of balancing (at the very least it don't insta kill bosses by doing 99999999 damage per hit);
rod of harmony is almost obviously a labor of love update way of saying "rod of discord haters who complain for years about adding chaos state can shut up now please", because for obvious reason rod of harmony is not supposed to be balanced

rod of harmony is currently just zenith with 99999999 base damage (for comparison, and as a tool)

[versed cape]

Which is a subjective take

[frail mantle]

so is saying that retiering the zenith counts as a rebalance

[versed cape]

Maybe

[small timber]

but ya, I do think having BR itself impose a nerf (to like rod of harmony inflict 10s of chaos state) is still needed, just so when one day it become important it is not a cheesefest

[versed cape]

Agree, also for AEW

[frail mantle]

boss rush is like a victory lap and nobody except maybe fab likes the wyrm

[crude geode]

^^^^^^^^

[small timber]

if AEW get some polishing I think it can work

[versed cape]

And? Why destroy content when you have the choice not to

[small timber]

but it definitely have to be slower in almost every way, considering the biome you fight it in

[frail mantle]

and fab himself agreed with putting the rod of harmony after Draedon and SCal

[crude geode]

Because it’s bad

[versed cape]

Id agree but there are definitely people that wouldnt

[frail mantle]

why use the rod of harmony to clown on the boss rush when you can choose not to

[crude geode]

I love circular arguments

[versed cape]

Why rebalance op items when the player can choose not to use then

[frail mantle]

because we don't count retiering something as rebalancing

[versed cape]

What??

How does that answer anything

[crude geode]

This is going nowhere.

[frail mantle]

i agree

i don't care enough to continue arguing here

[eternal escarp]

#suggestions-posting message is this really enough reasoning for this sugg?

[frail mantle]

you can disagree with how cal will handle the funny rod if you want but we're not planning on nerfing it

[eternal escarp]

its not like space on your arena is a pressing issue.. ever afaik

[crude geode]

It really isn’t