how do you think they get it
#suggestions-discussion
sonic fox
golden tulip
i approve of this too
swift wharf
oh fuck that is a good idea
sonic fox
he is the moon CEO
swift wharf
and then maybe make boss summon shops more expensive
hollow shell
and then maybe make boss summon shops more expensive
wdym
fossil finch
This will make people ultimately farm money by fishing
sleek turret
which is absurd
fossil finch
And calamity can't be bothered to change fishing drops so
sleek turret
golden crates moment
sonic fox
auric crates when?
small timber
the only potentially worrying implication is maybe for people who beat a boss by luck may have very significant difficulty to refight the boss to obtain other drops
fossil finch
All of them are worthy to sell
swift wharf
wdym
if some boss gives you a lot of money it won't really matter if the boss item is consumable or not, since they'll just buy more summons
cobalt pewter
heed this message
small timber
like a lucky 20-0 adrenaline proc, then suddenly when they want to grind other boss drops each attempt will take consumable summons again
sleek turret
tbh i wouldn't sell potions from fishing crates but ok
small timber
(or in other case, just general failed attempt, that is not aimed at refarming gold on bosses)
hollow shell
if some boss gives you a lot of money it won't really matter if the boss item is...
Again, if they use another mod to buy those summons, that is no longer our problem
Calamity NPCs don't sell them anymore
golden tulip
the only potentially worrying implication is maybe for people who beat a boss by...
well by that point i hope they have upgraded their gear at least a little
sleek turret
it's not like crates are the only fishing money machine in the game since you have stuff like Golden Carp existing
hot zephyr
it wouldn't solve event farms, unless those too were made consumable again
sonic fox
calamity valuable fish tho
small timber
with the new scaling now I dont really feel there is any point where (assuming only 1 progression tier), you would upgrade gears to the point of invalidating bosses
hollow shell
it wouldn't solve event farms, unless those too were made consumable again
I don't see why not
sleek turret
fishes in general are either priceless or money machines tbh
small timber
previously each post-ML progression massively boost your power which is no longer the case (due to post-ML rebalance), like post-provi providence is still very hard compare to pre-provi providence
golden tulip
i feel like all of this is pointless because complicated suggestions or suggestions with a lot of text generally dont make it to dev.
sonic fox
just make gold/platinum gear post crabulon
hot zephyr
and even if you did make event summons consumable again we'd still be farming death blood moons because they're easy to just endlessly farm
small timber
(death blood moon spawn rate boost should be removed tbh)
hot zephyr
bad take
golden tulip
good take
hot zephyr
that's the fun part of blood moons
sleek turret
you have events like pirate invasion in which (almost) every single furniture item sells for 2 gold
golden tulip
common xpcqe326 W
hollow shell
I might make a vote in the dev server for making boss summons only get consumed upon beating the boss, I think that has potential
fossil finch
At this point the question with money is "how much time does the player have to spend to get money" rather than anything else
Eventually all methods become effortless
golden tulip
I might make a vote in the dev server for making boss summons only get consumed ...
common rover W
hot zephyr
it's just cutting down options and railroading people
drowsy plank
this is a circular question there is no solution money will never be a good resource in terraria because terraria players love to break things
sonic fox
i think stealth is a much bigger problem than money
small timber
just introduce 'timed DR' for gold farming where if you earn a lot of money in a short period of time the game secretly reduce your gold gain, I see no problem with the idea :clueless:
sleek turret
increase the prices according to progression?
fossil finch
What are you exactly making better though
Like as a general question
hollow shell
it's just cutting down options and railroading people
It's making it so getting infinite cash is no longer effortless
The less methods we have for extremely easy profit, the better, because each method we remove makes money actually fucking matter a little bit more
sonic fox
just introduce 'timed DR' for gold farming where if you earn a lot of money in a...
timed money reduction
fossil finch
Sure, 2024, i can agree with that
hollow shell
cash will always be effortless
It will be, if you know the methods and seek them out
Ideally the methods aren't just handed to you
fossil finch
blike
The line that separates 2024 from tedium removal isn't defined at the end of the day
hollow shell
cal should stop putting everything into shops
THIS I do agree with
Especially potions
golden tulip
no potions are cool i hate making potions
small timber
just give better fishing rod early and remove potion selling from NPCs tbh
small timber
(maybe wormhole but I have no idea how hard it is to farm for multiplayer)
hollow shell
We do plan on eventually adding a more interesting method for bulk potion crafting
sonic fox
(maybe wormhole but I have no idea how hard it is to farm for multiplayer)
pretty easy
fossil finch
It will be, if you know the methods and seek them out
Ideally the methods aren'...
Most people will know the methods though
But talking about this is talking about the game outside of the game and that's hard to take in a more objective way
I agree with potion shops sucking
Add bonemeal i think
sleek turret
isn't wormhole potion just a cave layer fish and a plant
sonic fox
ye
sleek turret
and it's one of the more common fishes in the game
golden tulip
potions just require a lot of ingredients for something that you need to bulk craft and i think making it easier to get potions is good
sonic fox
blinkroot and specular fish
golden tulip
i like the blood moon solution still
small timber
ok it is potion of return that is stupidly hard to craft (lava fishing), I misremembered it as wormhole recipe
hollow shell
and it's one of the more common fishes in the game
The issue is that it requires fishing at all 
(except no TrollModerate because that's actually true)
hot zephyr
i do concur fishing is an awful system
sleek turret
i hate fishing
hot zephyr
it's the only system in terraria worse than money grinding
golden tulip
fishing is boring
sleek turret
can't we just make it rhythm fishing
golden tulip
but how do you make fishing engaging lmao
small timber
employ angler to fish for the player
sleek turret
you press the mouse button at a certain beat and you get something better idk
golden tulip
in basically any game i know that has a fishing mechanic
hollow shell
Hopefully Terraria 1.5 adds some kind of gameplay to fishing
Like Stardew Valley or Phantom Hourglass
or.. Yazuka, or something
hot zephyr
lol no
sleek turret
or like stardew valley yeah
fossil finch
Stardew the valley
golden tulip
what does stardew valley do with fishing
sonic fox
just make so that you have to boss battle the fishes
hot zephyr
it's an awful system that's used as a bandaid for terraria's finite world
hollow shell
what does stardew valley do with fishing
Adds a meter to the screen, where you have to keep a floaty drifting pointer within a certain space to make progress towards catching the fish
golden tulip
just make so that you have to boss battle the fishes
walk through a body of water and encounter a fish pokemon style, if you win you get to keep it
fossil finch
Stardew makes fishing a whole mechanic
You have a big vertical bar and you have a smaller green bar, the fish will go up and down and you have to mantain your green bar where the fish is
Your green bar will go bigger with better rods and fishing level
golden tulip
that sounds more engaging at least
hot zephyr
stardew valley has terraria's same fishing mechanic but you do a repetitive RNG-based minigame
small timber
ya tldr is just stardew valley fishing is still extremely simplistic but managed to be much more interesting
hollow shell
stardew valley has terraria's same fishing mechanic but you do a repetitive RNG-...
It's better than fucking nothin
sonic fox
no
hot zephyr
Kinda?
fossil finch
Fish even have different types of ai that determines how they move in the bar, some are extremely erratic, some go to the bottom
Also it's not rng based tf you on
golden tulip
sounds cool
fossil finch
With the late game erratic fish maybe but most fish aren't rng to catch at all
hot zephyr
Also it's not rng based tf you on
fish have behavior tendencies, but there is RNG
sleek turret
just make it Catch Of The Day fishing from rhythm heaven fever :TrollModerate:
small timber
we just talked about moving grinding from just refighting bosses endlessly
fossil finch
there is rng sure but like
99% of fish are catchable thanks to skill and you don't have to rely on rng at all
hot zephyr
I've had literally impossible sturgeons that required frame-perfect accuracy and completely free sturgeon catches because the AI decided not to move
statistically unlikely, sure
but it's still more than possible
for me, stardew valley's style of fishing started out strong but gets really really tedious when you're trying to target farm a specific item and you're endlessly repeating the same minigame on loop
funny enough I think the best thing Terraria 1.5 could do to improve fishing would be to improve worldgen so there's more naturally occuring fishing spots so players don't have to construct massive ugly artificial lakes
cobalt pewter
in basically any game i know that has a fishing mechanic
imo Crashlands is an exception too, but even if you don't like it, the game introduces a brilliant mechanic of being a dick and exploding fishing loots out with specially engineered bombs
golden tulip
looks like pixelated games with a top down view have above average fishing mechanics
cobalt pewter
comically large clueless emote
small timber
Make fish spawn as catchable critters in body of water near town
golden tulip
comically large clueless emote
nitroless behavior
small timber
Fuck it introduce fish pond too to allow breeding fish to produce more fish
Patch 2.2 should be titled Farming Simulator 2024 and introduce barn so you can breed your own cow
Now everyone can get exquisitely stuffed easily
proud quest
bro can they make jungle grass seeds mroe common or something
ive spent a whole fucking hour farming jungle grass and fishing and i havent found a SINGLE ONE
swift wharf
stuffed fish gives jungle seeds
sleek turret
is it hard to change the drop table of a vanilla bag item
kinda thinking for a suggestion lately
sleek turret
yeaahhh
proud quest
i got like 30 stuffed fish
small timber
is it hard to change the drop table of a vanilla bag item
Depends on what kind of change you want to make
sleek turret
seed bags
small timber
Oh ok, I thought you mean treasure bag
sleek turret
i was thinking of "what if seed bags gave other seeds like jungle grass and normal grass seeds like how Stuffed Fish does"
swift wharf
sounds fine
small timber
I will be honest when I am opening herb bag, my purpose is not really to get normal and jungle grass seed
(and since it is called "herb bags")
fossil finch
Ok
unreal star
i don't see why people want money grinding to be harder
what reason is there
it's just making the game more annoying
fossil finch
i was thinking of "what if seed bags gave other seeds like jungle grass and norm...
They already do
I think
Just at a considerable smaller chance and quantity
swift wharf
they don't
sleek turret
yeah I checked the wiki they do not
cold cosmos
Yeah I’m sorry that money sugg is just a terrible idea
golden tulip
ye
unreal star
Yeah I’m sorry that money sugg is just a terrible idea
i agree, money doesn't need to be limited like that
west prairie
I don’t see why ancient hallowed shouldn’t get a similar buff so that suggestion is a good one
swift wharf
probably an oversight
frosty trellis
So the best money making method would be to pop a zerg potion in the infection for an hour then spam kill dues
hollow shell
So the best money making method would be to pop a zerg potion in the infection f...
The difference there is that now a post-LC boss is the optimal farm
instead of a PreHM one and also literally every other boss too
golden tulip
if i could vote on that thing you were going to bring up in dev i would so you can vote for me 
near fossil
Every idea I've heard of for making it harder to get hundreds of platinum coins has been a bad one.
There are so many ways to get money that the game would have to be significantly rebalanced for money to become scarce.
Removing whatever the money farming meta is right now would just make it slower and more boring.
crude geode
It may be hard to make money scarce but it’s easy to make boss farming NOT the primary way to farm cash. Bosses are already nauseatingly over represented in cal, so making them not the primary money farm would be appreciated.
crude geode
at the end of the day it's not gonna pass voting so
That said
swift wharf
I might make a vote in the dev server for making boss summons only get consumed ...
This is good tho I think
stoic narwhal
Question, has been a suggestion about a Jungle Temple seeking mechanism before here?
swift wharf
Hmmm probably not
frosty trellis
I might make a vote in the dev server for making boss summons only get consumed ...
Might make farming DoG a pain though, since you need to kill him 4 times for all the accessories and stuff and God slayer armor + a couple weapons you will use
Since you need a fair bit of cosmolite bars
hollow shell
Question, has been a suggestion about a Jungle Temple seeking mechanism before h...
I don't think I've ever seen a suggestion for that. Usually it isn't a big deal because the Temple is so massive
But you could suggest it
drowsy plank
Might make farming DoG a pain though, since you need to kill him 4 times for all...
yeah the real issue i see with removing non-consumables is the fact it makes gear more difficult to get, especially with costly summoning items. i feel like there's better ways to handle the money issue (reduce amount dropped)
hollow shell
Might make farming DoG a pain though, since you need to kill him 4 times for all...
It is likely that Rune of Kos will remain nonconsumable, as that's how it's always been
so you'd still be able to farm Sentinels for the mats for enough Cosmic Worms
(as such, the Sentinels would have to drop greatly reduced amounts of cash or only do so on first kill like Mewk's suggestion)
frosty trellis
Ic
drowsy plank
i feel like the fact sentinels would need that change anyways
hollow shell
We could also raise the amount of Cosmilite that DoG drops
drowsy plank
really just points to the fact that that is a better solution
inner anvil
I might make a vote in the dev server for making boss summons only get consumed ...
I mean, killing bosses is the only thing that is both mildly interactive and "Money-giving", like yeah sure, we can do that, but not until we make more stuff be mildly interactive and "Money-giving".
hollow shell
There would likely be other changes here and there in the mod if my proposal were to be implemented
inner anvil
I mean, killing bosses is the only thing that is both mildly interactive and "Mo...
Like fishing, or invasions.
frosty trellis
Just fighting the sentinels over and over so I can fight dog more than once (even in some playthroughs I already have to do that for stuff like prismatic armor) is kinda annoying that I have to farm weaker bosses many times for 4 cosmic worms rather than just once, since storm weaver can go fuck itself
hollow shell
(Killing each sentinel once gives the the mats for 2 to 4 cosmic worms)
inner anvil
Also, Rover, if this is the thing you mentioned in Dev, I don't think nobody would explode for that lmao.
swift wharf
keeping certain items as non consumable should be fine
hollow shell
I mean, killing bosses is the only thing that is both mildly interactive and "Mo...
You're not wrong, farming bosses is more "interactive" than an AFK farm
We could try and come up with more ways to make money that aren't so free and brainless
swift wharf
keeping certain items as non consumable should be fine
like the ones before all of them became not consumable
frosty trellis
(Killing each sentinel once gives the the mats for 2 to 4 cosmic worms)
Not as mage since at that stage prismatic armor is rly good
But fair
That and you might need to kill the sentinels for other weapons (I don't personally use many of the sentinel weapons, but Aethers Whisper my beloved)
inner anvil
Like, we can make fishing better so it's interactive and money-giving so we don't need to use bosses if you want, we could make invasions more money-giving, they're interactive enough.
hollow shell
Also, Rover, if this is the thing you mentioned in Dev, I don't think nobody wou...
Indeed it is, and perhaps.
But the conversation went on this long (and has been going on this long) in this channel
I figured something of similar length could occur in the dev server
inner anvil
What I'm trying to say, we can do what you propose, Rover, but not now.
frosty trellis
Like, we can make fishing better so it's interactive and money-giving so we don'...
That could work
Gives some other options for money farming
hollow shell
What I'm trying to say, we can do what you propose, Rover, but not now.
I don't think it's as much as "not now" thing as it is a "this change would require other changes"
Those other changes won't occur unless this change does happen
... because why improve other money-making methods when there is currently a very fast and effortless method in the mod already
inner anvil
Yes.
That's more in the objective side.
In my honest subjective opinion, we should not make what you propose for boss summons, we could keep it as a way, while still having other options (In the future).
frosty trellis
The other problem I see is that if people are farming so much money, why is it necessary?
Potions (whether from calamity npcs or usually Alchlite for a lot of people)
Goblin reforging (Even with the calamity change getting menacing or warding on everything is very pricy)
Cirrus Candles bc not only are they very good, they are also very expensive, costing 2 plat to get all 4.
The candles are the main reason I money farm anyways bc dammit they are so expensive, and I am not going to get enough for a Yharon or DoG arena in a reasonable amount of time going afk at a money farm of sorts
hollow shell
I personally feel like it would be pointless to leave infinite boss farming in the mod while also trying to introduce alternative money-making options
because the path of least resistance wouldn't change
inner anvil
The other problem I see is that if people are farming so much money, why is it n...
That I do not know.
frosty trellis
I literally brought up the three main reasons why people money farm....
inner anvil
I personally feel like it would be pointless to leave infinite boss farming in t...
So what you mean is that, killing bosses would be the easiest way, and nobody else would do other options, right?
hollow shell
Essentially, yes. There probably will be people doing the other methods, but every player will obtain the infinite boss spawns in their playthroughs as a requirement anyway, so they already have the tools to do so
stuck cave
isn't that a bug that's being fixed in the next update (@ #suggestions-posting)
crude geode
which one, latest?
stuck cave
yea
inner anvil
Rover, I don't think there's a problem if you say it on Dev, it's worth mentioning.
But if you don't want to, I won't stop you.
stuck cave
it's listed in the known issues pin of #bugs-read-pins lol
crude geode
@ashen warren Known issue, dw, will be fixed later
hollow shell
it's listed in the known issues pin of <#332659630087995392> lol
Ah thank you for pointing that out
hollow shell
But if you don't want to, I won't stop you.
I have committed at this point and I think it's the more courteous option anyway, even if I made things awkward by getting them curious about what my proposal would be
stoic narwhal
I don't think I've ever seen a suggestion for that. Usually it isn't a big deal ...
Well, I was mostly lost and I spent for like an hour until I found the temple in my playthrough.
frosty trellis
But yeah. If people are using the infinite boss spawns to money farm, obviously you need the money. So wouldn't the fact that people need so much money for stuff like reforging, potion purchasing or candle buying be the culprit instead of infinite boss spawns?
stoic narwhal
And that's on a large world, for sure.
inner anvil
I have committed at this point and I think it's the more courteous option anyway...
Then it's settled, glad we came to a conclusion.
swift wharf
they are not?
frosty trellis
And you need more than one to get full victide + weapon of choice
swift wharf
by the time you get a medallion you already have 5 mandibles
ashen warren
<@456226577798135808> Known issue, dw, will be fixed later
Thx
frosty trellis
Not everyone starts out by exploring the underground desert
hollow shell
But yeah. If people are using the infinite boss spawns to money farm, obviously ...
In my current playthrough, my partner just decided to farm Desert Scourge over and over just to have the money for the rest of the pt
So I have no idea where the money sinks happen, it's been a complete non-issue for us
frosty trellis
And the electrified debuff can and will kill you early on
swift wharf
place tiles
they have the same weaknesses as regular ones
this is 100% a skill issue
frosty trellis
In my current playthrough, my partner just decided to farm Desert Scourge over a...
I tend to spend at minimum 60 plat on potions (via Alchlite) and 200+ plat for candles bc I want my dang candles since it makes my life a hell of a lot easier in boss fights having a large arena to move around with string buffs
swift wharf
ud desert is already nerfed in cal
hollow shell
I tend to spend at minimum 60 plat on potions (via Alchlite) and 200+ plat for c...
Jesus fucking christ
stuck cave
In my current playthrough, my partner just decided to farm Desert Scourge over a...
i've had pretty big money sinks on multiple playthrus in like early-mid pre hm and onwards where i'm starting to reforge all of my accessories and weapons. it's mostly only a huge problem in like death mode bc it's a bit hard to farm bosses with bigger money consistently
thinking like perforators mainly
and slime god
hollow shell
This is what having infinite money does to people
It makes them feel like 100 candles is a requirement
crude geode
very true
hollow shell
( 
)
frosty trellis
Jesus fucking christ
And that doesn't even cover the reforging costs bc menacing on some late game accessories can take several play by itself
swift wharf
this but unironically
stuck cave
i mean i could farm desert scourge or king slime but it's a lot slower until i can instantly melt them in like 3 hits
frosty trellis
This is what having infinite money does to people
It makes them feel like 100 ca...
It's not, but it sure as hell is nice to have them
swift wharf
end game when
when money is no longer real
frosty trellis
I've fought without them
hollow shell
(hang on I'll be back later)
swift wharf
if you're spending 200 plat on them that's a you problem
frosty trellis
Sorry that I like a large Yharon arena with candles and very long platforms for DoG that go up high enough so I can be fine during the laser walls without overextending to not fit my arena 
drowsy plank
im at pre-DoG and have about 154 platinum just from playing the game normally
with the typical reforges and a handful of potions
swift wharf
talk about over preparing jesus
swift wharf
it doesn't take that much to not die
frosty trellis
I will never do Death Yharon without candles
swift wharf
shrug
frosty trellis
That telefrag lottery is hard enough
I'm not making it harder than it needs to be
Especially on Master where stat bloat makes it worse
crude geode
(something something potions in shop was a mistake)
Realistically farming bosses shouldn't be the main way of acquiring money. Bosses are already so bloated with reasons to do them.
frosty trellis
That's fair
drowsy plank
(me doing blood moons to grind money because it also gets me more blood orbs so i can get twice as many potions)
crude geode
At this point though it's more a dev thing than anything else, cuz getting it past the playerbase would be hard enough considering the outcry of removing malice mode, a mode only a minority of the playerbase played
the outcry of removing the easy funny farm will be a lot more if it happens
frosty trellis
I honestly just use Alchlite for potions bc half the damned time my first blood moon won't show the hell up until Post DoG
drowsy plank
idk wtf yall be doin to have that
stuck cave
no one does anything, it's just insanely bad luck
swift wharf
cutting the pt time by 50% with qols so there's not enough time for the rest of the game to happen
frosty trellis
That character by endgame had a 27 hour playtime iirc, so not like it was super short or anything, and Post-DoG means the majority of the run was bloodmoonless
stuck cave
nothing to do abt it except cheat in a bloody tear
swift wharf
my point has been obliterated
frosty trellis
LOL
swift wharf
drowsy plank
i think the answer here is to make calamity take even longer
idk i feel like 27 is still short but from what i remember, that's just the average playtime for people so what do i know
i spend way too long building farms and housing in 1.4 because it makes it actually enjoyable
stuck cave
how would you make it take longer without pissing people off, other than just adding more bosses and interesting content
frosty trellis
There are some normal terraria things I like to do, such as mine chlorophyte for two hours bc I need 30ish life fruits for the normal shit, then a spare set of chlorophyte melee armor bc that's part of my vanity
Lol
stuck cave
like making grinds take longer is not gonna do it
drowsy plank
how would you make it take longer without pissing people off, other than just ad...
no that's it, we just have to wait for the other content to arrive lmao
there is no easy solution it's just "wait for the mod to be closer to being done"
stuck cave
thatll be like a couple years then lol
drowsy plank
yeah
stuck cave
i mean idk how far along yharim or whatever else is next up is, if at all, but it'll be a while
drowsy plank
biome reworks can help at least
stuck cave
oh yea fs
crude geode
hi math time
drowsy plank
i think the biome reworks are next and craig rework (pylon?) will definitely add a lot more content to preHM because i never bother with it until hardmode usually because of how annoying it is to reach rn (also sunken sea rework)
crude geode
on average there's less than a 1% chance of not getting a blood moon til post dog
if you consider the playthrough to be like 80% over by that point (I do)
drowsy plank
i think someone else already suggested it but honestly a blood moon spawner at the beginning of hardmode that doesnt require blood orbs would be a solid idea, just in case things get fucky with RNG like that
frosty trellis
Thankfully solar flare armor is broken against DoG so I was fine as melee
But as summoner? RIP
frosty trellis
i think someone else already suggested it but honestly a blood moon spawner at t...
YES PLEASE
drowsy plank
since hardmode already has a lot of QoL items exist
crude geode
lord no.
frosty trellis
Ik that's a terrible idea
crude geode
altho isn't bloody tear non-consumable
drowsy plank
and idr but i think my building and digging accessories got accepted, which add on alongside the super fishing accessory, really add to the whole "wof is dead, maybe help the player a little"
correct
fossil finch
What you can do is add a super event toggler i think
frosty trellis
Yeah but you don't unlock all possible events until post golem
drowsy plank
like battle potion but for event spawn chances?
fossil finch
still
No
Just an item that fuses all event spawners
Ui like astral arcanum's
Or smt
drowsy plank
you'd still need blood orbs for bloody tear
frosty trellis
Then you can't make that
fossil finch
Make ravager drop blood orbs
drowsy plank
i like the idea of an item that just makes natural events more likely to happen, that way you can get things like gobbo and pirates faster
LMAO
fossil finch
trolling supreme
Jokes aside just
Add blood orbs to something that isn't a blood moon enemy
That fixes the issue
frosty trellis
Make ravager drop blood orbs
Considering Ravager already drops bloodstone post-prov and will be the only one to do so, that might not be a bad idea
drowsy plank
true!!
frosty trellis
Make blood orbs drop from werewolf's then
First mob that makes sense in my head
Or hell, make them drop from enemies in the crags
fossil finch
You can
You can unironically do the rav thing unless him becoming the ultra farmer is a concern
crude geode
he's getting moved to post-ml last I heard
cobalt pewter
potion cheating becomes lategame
drowsy plank
add blood orbs to demon eye drop table
frosty trellis
LOL
fossil finch
Yes, post ml crags boss
frosty trellis
I was just thinking brimstone crags
drowsy plank
outside of blood moons :)
crude geode
I hope with the move he gets his fuckin farmin shins kicked in
drowsy plank
you could just make it a really low chance from zombies and demon eyes and im not joking
crude geode
you could also just make blood moon have a spawn after first evil boss kill
drowsy plank
also true
crude geode
at this point i'm in a waiting room for one of yall to actually go through and sugg making blood moons more consistent
drowsy plank
i was in the middle of writing OC stuff but i suppose i could take a minute to type up a blood moon sugg
frosty trellis
you could also just make blood moon have a spawn after first evil boss kill
That would be great actually
crude geode
altho it does give more relevance to bosses which I just complained about
hypocrisy
frosty trellis
Kinda want to just put the blood orbs in the crags bc you have to go there anyways and a hellish place where a lot of blood was shed makes sense imo
drowsy plank
thoughts?
frosty trellis
Looks good to me
Leaving it up to the devs to decide what to do it with instead of one concrete must do it x way
I like that
Also, interesting thought, but how would the blood moon start after the first evil boss kill work if you killed the evil boss at night?
drowsy plank
starts instantly 
nah if we're being realistic
prolly just
idk carry over to the day after or something
kinda like meteor spawn
frosty trellis
Ic
small timber
Abit late but I do think having a rare enemy spawn (non blood moon) that drop blood orb OR bloody tear (it is now able to be decrafted into blood orb) will be better
Make blood moon have less ties to bosses
novel belfry
#suggestions-posting message
Why is this ❗ ?
hollow shell
It's a bug
Fixed next update iirc
(or if not, it's still known. Pinned in #bugs-read-pins )
novel belfry
k
spring sail
Does anyone else feel the abyss is still too dark even with proper gears?
novel belfry
I think that's intentional
spring sail
Like, reaper sharks are basically invisible
small timber
Does anyone else feel the abyss is still too dark even with proper gears?
May you show what you mean by proper gear?
Since to my knowledge at rev you can get pretty light up, on death ya it is meant to be a bit dark, probably have to plant torches
Sulph sea I do think it somewhat make sense, since it is meant to br extremely dirty/radioactive water (and spelunker and hunter help)
fossil finch
I don't think taking away abyss main funny factor would be a good idea even if partially
small timber
Abyss is straight up darkness which I dont like a lot more, but at the same time I do not recall not being able to see with proper setup
fossil finch
Also the reason you can't see chests is because of their low contrast with the background and other tiles
It's not really the water's fault
hollow shell
Also the reason you can't see chests is because of their low contrast with the b...
The low contrast is worsened by the fact that you're looking at them through a colored filter
(water).
fossil finch
yes but you can fix that without making the water less green
Which kinda ruins the point of it being fucked up water
hollow shell
Hopefully it's possible to make objects in water be less affected by the water visually
So the liquid remains the same color
but you can see stuff in it easier
fossil finch
you could also just recolor the chest but y'know
Also i don't
Really think reaper shark is invisible with hunter
I checked
Hunter highlights things in complete darkness and sure he's mostly black but the orange tint is very clear??? + the shine and his blue accents should make it obvious he's there unless he's already being lit up (which makes the shader less intense+you can confuse it with the background)
What i can agree on is that reaper shark blends too much with the abyss
small timber
If anything I am down to hunter potion not working in abyss
small timber
Instead introduce a "sonar potion" (not the fishing one) that will help you identify abyss enemy location without just seeing them all the time
fossil finch
Just sea spirit and shine are enough for most of the layers
And the rams from the shield line generate a comical amount of light
(Which should probably get changed
hollow shell
Also i do play on retro but
uh ohhh
fossil finch
retro only removes light smoothing light levels are the same
Grrr
(It does make vision clearer
but my points stand!!!
hollow shell
retro only removes light smoothing light levels are the same
Factually untrue
Some light sources get completely fucked in Retro/Trippy, versus Color/White
Usually way brighter than intended
fossil finch
That's not my fault vanilla doesn't have that problem simply don't add that problem
spring sail
Anyways it’s still too dark if you have all the lighting
fossil finch
Have you tried turning up your screens' gamma
small timber
I will test it later once I get on my pc, unless they nerfed lighting gear it should be fine even in death mode
fossil finch
I'm not joking it may just be too dark for you
spring sail
And I gotta say I don’t see much of a difference between when you have enough light level or not
hollow shell
Light level only has effect at 2 distinct points where you're given the Darkness debuff effect or the Obstructed debuff effect
It's, hard to word in a concise manner
I hope the wiki explains it well enough
https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Abyss#Light_Level
Basically if you have enough Light level to overcome the Darkness debuff effect, then stacking any more Light level on top of that will do nothing (aside from the literal light generation that the items pay provide)
spring sail
Even abyss torches don’t do much
hollow shell
You're right in that rogue has weirdly no content from either moon
However I personally think it's cool that different classes have different experiences with which moons grant them the most benefit
Gives playthroughs more variety
(I feel this way about other areas of the mod/game too)
spring sail
Yeah that’s the main thing, the other classes are not “balanced” but ok
swift wharf
(clueless)
if you want summoner gear, do pumpkin moon
but I do agree that rogue
is not existent
hot zephyr
having different pathing is good
i think the biggest reason for the lack of rogue content in the moons is that rogues have a ton of content in the eclipse
hollow shell
If you consider them equivalents then I suppose that's fair
drowsy plank
i would
hollow shell
I personally wouldn't.
Not until Post-DoG at least
drowsy plank
lol
spring sail
I mentioned other classes because just little buffs to pumpkin moon weapons would be enough
drowsy plank
arguably eclipse comes sooner but im pretty sure it's buffed and gets new drops post plant
hollow shell
drowsy plank
hence an entire armor set and such
spring sail
I don’t think I’ve seen anyone use the jack-o-lantern launcher or candy corn rifle
drowsy plank
i mean solar veils have a lot of uses, like spooky and summoners
yeah they're bad lol
and have weird ammo types
im surprised there's no upgrade with jack launcher and pumpler tbh
spring sail
Or bat scepter
swift wharf
since buffed moons are getting the axe, reworking the current 3 would be nice
but that's future content soooo
spring sail
Post-plantera content bloat
small timber
if you just spread the gears across every moon isnt it even more of a content bloat?
since instead of only have to do 1 of them (depend on your class), you now must do all of them
drowsy plank
the real solution is to turn each of the mech tiers into actual tiers so we can tug some of the post-plant stuff backwards
spring sail
Skipping contents are not fun too
drowsy plank
or maybe shove it in the post-cultist tier??
those are my only ideas
but neither are very good
hot zephyr
imho the only thing that really needs to be changed about early hardmode is the gating of the alt mech drops
drowsy plank
that makes sense tbh
small timber
ok apparently light pet matters a lot more than other light sources
drowsy plank
no idea how you'd even start trying to fix post-plant bloat
small timber
but ya, you are no way near "cant see anything even with proper gear" in abyss, even on death mode
sulph sea yes, but it is more of a colour contrast
drowsy plank
they're mildly difficult to see, but that's... kind of the point...
spring sail
The non linear calamity progression made it somewhat worse
frosty trellis
Wait, melee users go after North Pole? No, we go after horseman's blade bc it doesn't outright suck and used for good weapons like Zenith and Last Mourning
small timber
north pole is unironically one of the most broken weapon right now
I dont know why it is that goated, but on bosses like leviathan and astrum aureus it kills them in nohit timing
without adrenaline
spring sail
Horsemen’s blade is ok btw, a lot of people cheese bosses with it and it’s used to craft zenith
But not as good and versatile as north pole, horsemen is a vanilla true melee
small timber
ark of the ancients being exactly after plantera I feel makes a lot of melee weapons feel worse
like horseman's blade would feel much better if ark is at a different tier
storm bridge
rogue has solar eclipse?
i get its not a moon thing but its at the same level of events
grave zincBOT
@small timber - Your suggestion has received an updated status!
[Make Draedon Power Cell Factory and Charging Station Have Glowing/Shining Parts (to grab player's attention)]
It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
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@ashen warren - Your suggestion has received an updated status!
[Let the Rare Sand Elemental's Healing Orbs travel through walls]
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@arctic viper - Your suggestion has received an updated status!
[Make class proficiency have a higher impact on gameplay]
It has been reviewed by the devs, and for one reason or another they decided it would be best not to implement it.
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@dapper violet - Your suggestion has received an updated status!
[1.4 Brain of Confusion ability for it's upgrades]
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@drowsy plank - Your suggestion has received an updated status!
[Put Desert Medallions in Pyramid/Desert Chests and Lab Seeking Mechanisms into Gold Chests so New Players Actually Find Calamity's Unique Structures]
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@hasty rune - Your suggestion has received an updated status!
[Sync Calamity Changes to NPCs with 1.4 NPCs]
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@surreal drum - Your suggestion has received an updated status!
[Make DOG's laser wall sound use Gauss Rifle's hit sound instead of Space Gun's shooting sound]
It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
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hollow shell
<@340567235921969157> - Your suggestion has received an updated status!
[**Make...
(we are more likely to make proficiency entirely cosmetic than to make it affect gameplay even more)
grave zincBOT
@soft quest - Your suggestion has received an updated status!
[Make Providence Delete Magma Blobs When Transitioning Phases]
It has been reviewed by the devs, and for one reason or another they decided it would be best not to implement it.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message
storm bridge
(we are more likely to make proficiency entirely cosmetic than to make it affect...
that sounds exciting 
hasty rune
so the npcs really got overlooked? xD
drowsy plank
hell yeah brother these voting results are based
storm bridge
based upon fact 💯
hasty rune
"I love democracy"
small timber
@queen nova the "ancient relics" now dont really have specific benefits to (only) summoner or mage, especially aerostone and bloom stone (all class)
the only connection is really just the prejudice against them due to them used to be in the heart of the elements
(i think even cryostone is all class now)
so basically rose stone for summoner, chaos stone for mage, and rest are all class
I will like to see ancient relics getting some upgrades, just ya, disagree with having all of them connected to spirit glyph line
queen nova
That's true, I could have worded it better, but I meant that as a group, they have a bias towards summoner/mage
So if there was something that combined all their effects, it would lean that way
small timber
I think their effect right now is a bit far apart to be combined tbh
queen nova
I think it would definitely be sort of a jack of all trades accessory to be sure
small timber
it will form an amalgamation accessory that offers very vastly different stats that dont really benefit most class (similar to eldritch soul artifact, which only really rogue and summoner can use it)
queen nova
But I think that fits with the Heart's style, summoning all these different creatures to help you
small timber
I will much prefer all of them have their respective upgrade line (in some way) tbh, rather than just forcefully combine all of them just because they are under the ancient relic group
queen nova
And I believe it would have a representative from every biome
small timber
(rose already upgrades into HOTE so there is one)
queen nova
If it also included the Heart, I mean
small timber
oh right I missed it, probably best to remove the cosmilite part tbh (basically to avoid specificity)
and probably word the suggestion better as you say, since currently it looks like...
it might lack a bit of reasoning?
hollow shell
oh uh, whoops
Rose Stone probably isn't meant to have "ancient relic" in its tooltip anymore
small timber
(since as we said there is not a lot of connection for ancient relics and spirit glyph)
ashen warren
Crash bandicoot
small timber
tbh probably can rename Rose Stone in the process? or at least remove/change the 'Stone' word
just so it differentiate from other ancient relics, as all of them have Stone
hollow shell
In which case the only summoner-oriented relic would be... Cryo Stone?
Isn't it classless?
ashen warren
Crash bandicoot
Make crash bandicoot reference woah crash bandicoot
small timber
cryo is classless ya, at least I am not aware that (if) it benefit from summon damage
hollow shell
Make crash bandicoot reference woah crash bandicoot
Stop
ashen warren
Ok
hollow shell
cryo is classless ya, at least I am not aware that (if) it benefit from summon d...
Wiki doesn't say, actually
It should.
queen nova
If that was done, the only class-oriented stone at all would be Chaos stone with the mana burn
hollow shell
Indeed
queen nova
I still think it would make sense to connect, I suppose, three groups of accessories
small timber
what are the three groups of accessories you want to connect?
heart of the elements, spirit glyph and 'ancient relics'?
small timber
I will be honest they don't really have any connection? especially now that a dev say Rose Stone is not meant to be ancient relic (anymore)
small timber
oh uh, whoops
Rose Stone probably isn't meant to have "ancient relic" in its too...
^
queen nova
To be honest I think they're mostly just connected aesthetically
small timber
aesthetic is not entirely accurate representation of connectivity tbh, otherwise Ultimate (the bow) and universal genesis will be a exo mechs and exo prism weapon
queen nova
Each one represents a different biome, and taken as a group they have effects that basically touch every part of play
hollow shell
We would really rather not put non-waifu effects back into HotE
queen nova
Hey wait so I have a question
Is the rule against specifically asking for an item because that's reserved for donors?
small timber
you mean asking change to a donor item or asking to add an item that is already planned to be donor item?
queen nova
No like, you can't just ask for a specific item to be made
Is that a rule because only donors are allowed to do that?
Or because too many people were just submitting their bad ideas
small timber
ideally you dont want to be (too) specific on your idea yea, since it will limit the approach that the devs can take since they have to follow the specificity you set in the suggestion
mainly that it significantly limit developer's option to introduce the idea I think
if you mean specific to the point of down to stats, crafting material, sprite style... ya that basically spiralled into having 90% of suggestion being that so it is no longer allowed; for donor I think they don't really accept donor item anymore due to having backlog of donor item to make?
queen nova
Gotcha
But it's ok to suggest something like "upgrade to the HOTE that includes the Ancient Relics and Phantomic Artifact" just not "it should increase summon damage by 15% and add 2 minion slots" etc.
small timber
basically the 15% summon damage 2 minion slot is 100% not allowed yeah, "upgrade to HOTE include ancient relics and phantomic artifact" I think will depend on how the mods judge it
queen nova
I see I see
small timber
(since they are the one giving the verdict)
but I think as long as you are not extremely specific and have sufficient reason, eg: in this case you give a really good reason as to why HOTE upgrades that include ancient relics and phantom artifact will be a really good idea it should be fine?
queen nova
Cool cool, thanks
lost cedar
how would yall nerf soaring insignia?
spring sail
What did chaos stone do before again?
glossy marten
What did chaos stone do before again?
I think it used to just give stats
like every other stone
hold on lemme look it up actually
small timber
the 'reduced flight mobility' will kill the accessory way more than just reduce the flight time it currently give
it might not be obvious, but' soaring insignia (besides the flight time), is an extremely good accessory in terms of just mobility/movement speed, if you nerf it it (in this case, probably have to make it give negative mobility) will literally feels like using mollusk armor
crude geode
soaring insignia is just the new frog leg
hot zephyr
infinite flight time won't return
small timber
I am pretty sure they already planning on reworking perennial (in some way), so the suggestion will just conflict with devs plan
frail mantle
:nuclearoption:
small timber
oh god config again
quiet kernel
Configs🤢
frail mantle
configs to revert vanilla nerfs and buffs will not happen
small timber
infinite flight time won't return
but ya to quote like, 3 lines above:
kindred creek
why are they so against a config option for a single item? The mod is about having fun
who cares about balance
have you ever used reaver armor?
frail mantle
why are they so against a config option for a single item? The mod is about havi...
because having configs to tweak every single thing the mod changes is excessive
small timber
then just install a mod that disable soaring insignia nerf, it probably exist there
kindred creek
because having configs to tweak every single thing the mod changes is excessive
it's be fun tho
small timber
just dont expect calamity to do it
frail mantle
especially when it comes to balance changes
kindred creek
just dont expect calamity to do it
i dont expect calamity to do 99% of everything that I want, but oh well
im not a dev
aight
small timber
I am pretty sure they already planning on reworking perennial (in some way), so ...
but ya regarding the perennial one ^
(but probably best to wait for a dev to confirm this though)
keen zodiac
yeah perennial has dug itself into a hole but straight up removing it would completely destroy the entire concept of life alloy
it just needs a serious rework/overhaul
kindred creek
im curious, why cant they just replace perennial ore with chloraphyte?
theyre both plant themes
small timber
I think that is what they want to do in the rework? and basically move perennial to somewhere else
at least I heard, or something like that
kindred creek
i mean, the problem is there is already something else at basically every point in the game
i can't think of a place that it would be more useful
small timber
ya, that one is particularly I dont remember what exactly do the devs want to do with it, I just remember perennial will be rework at some point
kindred creek
only place I could think is post moon lord, between polterghast and DoG. The main one is that I alway feel very, very unprepared for old duke
but that just seems unreasonable
keen zodiac
replacing planty mush and tenebris with perennial actually isn't the worst idea
spring sail
When devs realize uelibloom is also plant based
keen zodiac
small timber
tbh uelibloom can be completely removed and it will not matter, divine geode 100% suffice
(other than the farm providence aspect, but then again can just make providence drop more geode)
spring sail
Remove frigid bar and replace it with cryonic
Remove perennial, replace it with chlorophyte
Remove uelibloom and replace with divine geode and chloro
Remove charred and scoria, replace with hellstone
I am aware of that
Perennial being awkward and having repeated themes does not mean it should just be removed
cobalt pewter
Remove frigid bar and replace it with cryonic
Remove perennial, replace it with ...
to be fair to charred ore, a crags rework is underway and we'd need to see them first
but the rest is 
I do think Perennial can be entirely replaced with Chloro tho in some way post plant, kinda like how vanilla integrated turtle / beetle and spectre
Uelibloom has an excuse of being old, so I think it can just be integrated in another way instead of being another ore
short walrus
uelibloom could be rethemed probably
swift wharf
uelibloom returns to being radiation themed
distant gyro
uelibloom is a lot more likely to be removed
perennial's chance to be removed is near 0 because work has already been done on it
short walrus
uelibloom returns to being radiation themed
it was radiation themed???
wasn't that just biofusillade
swift wharf
wasn't that just biofusillade
golden tulip
perennial's chance to be removed is near 0 because work has already been done on...
good to hear tho
swift wharf
small timber
perennial's chance to be removed is near 0 because work has already been done on...
(in that case the suggestion should probably be exclaimed tbh, since it has like, 99.99% chance of rejected even if it gets enough votes)
(and the entire suggestion reasoning is purely to remove item bloats when perennial is already the scarce one that is trying to fill a niche in gearing)
main bronze
I agree with this statement
short walrus
@shrewd osprey those have already been added and are coming in the next updates
shrewd osprey
short walrus
so delete the sugg
drowsy plank
can we add soaring reworks to the donts or something
actually wait it is a dont
it's reversion
why do these things keep getting into voting????
fossil finch
Because mods don't do their jobs 🙄 (because no one is pinging them
drowsy plank
man id ping em more often but im worried id get annoying since i wouldnt file a mod mail ticket over this but i dont want to just bother rover every time
plus if im just wrong then it accomplishes nothing
frail mantle
you'll probably have better luck asking in #help-advice-read-pins, this channel is mainly for discussing suggestions in #suggestions-posting
no worries 👍
small timber
the devs seems to (eventually I think), want to rework auric tesla to be not an amalgamation armor, but rather its stand alone unique armor
and with that aside, the suggestion is pretty much just unnecessarily bloating the crafting recipe
small timber
(and ya, silva and tarragon wings are pretty much very viable on their own)
fossil finch
See guys i told you
small timber
I guess I will just ping
fossil finch
people out there still believe Tracers are good
small timber
and with that aside, the suggestion is pretty much just unnecessarily bloating t...
^ @lyric depot
I mean tracers is viable, just not optimal/best in slot
swift wharf
can we delete tracers
small timber
in no way is tracers straight up bad, just not the best option available
lyric depot
But it literally saves up a slot
fossil finch
No because the point is that they suck compared to wings
It doesn't matter it saves up a slot
small timber
people straight up don't use boots post-ML
swift wharf
^
small timber
so ya, it dont really save up a slot
fossil finch
Usually there's nothing worthwhile anyway
And you can not use boots yea
lyric depot
I use them
swift wharf
sorry but if you don't know how to use them that's a you problem
fossil finch
people overestimate the value of acc slots ngl
small timber
but ya, regardless, just know that wings are definitely very viable, silva wings and tarragon wings in particular are amazing
swift wharf
i am extremely offended
small timber
tarragon is massive boost with tarragon armor, while silva wing is amazing for yharon (since the previous best wing is elysian)
fossil finch
Remember when soaring's main non nerf argument was "it takes up a slot"
lyric depot
I didn’t know people use wings post ml
swift wharf
🗿
small timber
so the suggestion reasoning is pretty much just "auric do it, celestial tracer should too"
small timber
the devs seems to (eventually I think), want to rework auric tesla to be not an ...
and regarding that two reasoning ^
small timber
and with that aside, the suggestion is pretty much just unnecessarily bloating t...
.
swift wharf
celestial tracers should be killed tbh
lyric depot
I mean, why make silva and terragon wings?
swift wharf
because they are good????
fossil finch
because they're good wings
small timber
ya, because they are good
swift wharf
and objectively better than tracers???
you can even use silva wings with godslayer armor
lyric depot
Then why are you saying celestial tracers should be removed even though they’re in the auric set?
swift wharf
lmfa
small timber
(some people just dislike tracers), but ya for me it just seems really unnecessarily bloat to the crafting recipe of celestial tracer
frozen hornet
auric "set" (only the armor)
swift wharf
funny how you get drew wings and tracers at the same time
lyric depot
Anywho, let’s get this usability aside, are you gonna add them to the recipe?
swift wharf
recipe bloat zzzzz
frozen hornet
barely any of the auric weapons resemble each other
small timber
there is no reason to add them to the recipe
frail mantle
i don't really see a point in adding them to the recipe
lyric depot
It’s a nice touch, what can I say?
small timber
if you feel wings are bad, it just waste your time by forcing you to craft two bad items that you never use
if wings is actually good, then wings already have a use then why add them to celestial tracer recipe just to bloat the crafting recipe
lyric depot
Then will you make bloodflare wings?
small timber
bloodflare wings need to exist first, same with god slayer wing
fossil finch
And when they do there will not be an auric wing
Because auric fusion things are boring boy i can't wait for 8 years now on auric gets completely redone
small timber
but ya tldr is eventually auric will be reworked
swift wharf
blessed auric rework
lyric depot
Damn
small timber
and partially of the reason is to remove the amalgamation effect of auric tesla; and in this case unlike auric tesla, for celestial tracer, it dont even inherit any of the effects from the ingredient
so it really is just add unnecessarily material to the crafting recipe
lyric depot
So we’re not combining boots and wings anymore?
small timber
So we’re not combining boots and wings anymore?
there is no reason to
wings and boots and functionally similar (as in, wings = wings, boots = boots, just different stat), they need 1 wings in their recipe, but not more than that
lyric depot
Yes, that’s kinda the point in wing boots
lyric depot
It saves accessory slot
small timber
auric tesla at the very least still combine tarragon, bloodflare, GS/silva effect; putting multiple wings into celestial tracer will just have drews' wing stat anyway
lyric depot
We want more available accessory slots
swift wharf
removing the boots also saves a slot
small timber
Yes, that’s kinda the point in wing boots
oh you mean that, tracer will keep existing I think
lyric depot
So I’m sacrificing my speed for some mid air flight speed?
small timber
at least I dont heard devs saying they want to remove tracer
lyric depot
And not just combining them to make them more on game progresses?
swift wharf
I'd say that insignia replaces boots once you get it
lyric depot
If you remove one of the other, you’ll be sacrificing speed/flight
fossil finch
The thing you don't realise is that by combining them you already are
swift wharf
and flight is overall better
small timber
ok I should had been more specific:
tracers will still exist (boots + wings combination), at least I havent heard any news of them wanting to be removed
what will be reworked/removed, is auric tesla' amalgamation effect/recipe of basically just combining a bunch of armor; eventually auric will become its own thing with its own unique effect
so basically, with that being the case, there is no reason to make a tracer that require more than 1 wing, since you only have the effect of the strongest wing anyway
lyric depot
And insignia will only make the wing boots more usable
fossil finch
Because tracer has horrible flight stats
swift wharf
The thing you don't realise is that by combining them you already are
^
tracers have horrible stats yes
you're killing flight time without even knowing
for a slot that isn't even needed
frozen hornet
What's the difference from just wearing wings+boots then
small timber
you save 1 slot?
lyric depot
it will improve the flight time if you have winged boots
frozen hornet
And they're using that slot to put insignia
swift wharf
And insignia will only make the wing boots more usable
and insignia will make single wings way better
lyric depot
you save 1 slot?
Yes, that would be even better accessory
lyric depot
you can also just not use insignia too
Yes, but that would be the same with rocket boot flight
still zodiac
you can also just not use insignia too
if you don't use wings you also save up an accessory slot, think about it
swift wharf
TRUE
lyric depot
Then you don’t have flight
frozen hornet
Defiled players
swift wharf
just use bob fr
lyric depot
Yeah
swift wharf
anyways we got a little carried away
frozen hornet
It's that easy
lyric depot
Oh sure, and let casual players suffer
lyric depot
So what about dog speed?
swift wharf
(thank you 1.5)
still zodiac
that's one of the bosses where tracers aren't a bad choice
lyric depot
How are you gonna escape from dog
still zodiac
out of how many bosses there are post-ml
still zodiac
also wings are still viable on him
swift wharf
you have enough speed to literally walk
still zodiac
it's just that tracers' main benefit is actually useful there
swift wharf
or just jump
frozen hornet
or use a mount
lyric depot
Oh sure, let me be a tank for a sec and remove both boots and wings
frozen hornet
or hover
fossil finch
All of this problems would be solved if calamity didn't exist
Think about it
swift wharf
based neko
still zodiac
Oh sure, let me be a tank for a sec and remove both boots and wings
what point are you making here
lyric depot
Damn
lyric depot
Be a tank, why move if you tank it?
still zodiac
yeah sure
lyric depot
Oh suddenly you’re serious ok then
small timber
ok before this go into a full tracer vs wings debate, tldr for the suggestion:
wings are good, while you might not think so, if half the people are telling you it is good then it should at least be viable (aka they are not 'weak/useless'), there is no need to 'make better use of the wings' because they already have a good use
auric is (will) be reworked at some point with the main purpose is to remove the amalgamation effect, eventhough it might take a while, since that is the approach there is no reason to enforce an idea that they are already trying to move away from; celestial tracer can just use drew's wing and thats it, no need for tarragon/elysian/silva wing
wings differs from auric in that ONLY their stats matter, while auric inherited all set bonus from previous sets; tldr there is 0 reason to have more than 1 wing in the recipe
frozen hornet
Oh sure, and let casual players suffer
I'm not even saying that everyone should not use wings
still zodiac
ok before this go into a full tracer vs wings debate, tldr for the suggestion:
...
yeah basically all of that
swift wharf
they're not good they're amazing 
don't forget the armor buffs
like tarragon healing
and silva revive
unborn oriole
Tbh Tarragon wings are overshadowed by Elysian
swift wharf
Silva wings makes so you revive at more hp
lyric depot
Yes, only a dmg buff
frozen hornet
there's no need to make them give the same buffs when wearing auric armor
swift wharf
did you
lyric depot
Or small buff
unborn oriole
Silva wings are straight up AWESOME
still zodiac
Tbh Tarragon wings are overshadowed by Elysian
mobility wise yea, but if you want extra survivability it's fine
swift wharf
even use them
unborn oriole
Top tier wings
small timber
I used tarragon over elysian until polterghast, you don't really need massive speed for the bosses before that, and tarragon is strong enough to compete with elysian
lyric depot
Ok ok calm the fuck down, let’s not get overboard. we’re arguing over a small suggestion of just putting something in a recipe that you would probably forget about the next day
still zodiac
though mobility on it's own is another form of survivability so
swift wharf
!wiki wings
red stormBOT
unborn oriole
Ok ok calm the fuck down, let’s not get overboard. we’re arguing over a small su...
Not really, people will find annoying having 3 wings in a single recipe and ask to revert that
Besides
lyric depot
God dammit
unborn oriole
Cel tracers recipe is good like it is
small timber
oh tarragon just straight up have more flight time than elysian now? thats surprising
swift wharf
frosty trellis
How are you gonna escape from dog
Spam dashing
Tap flying (which is about the same speed or faster than tracers, and Elysian Wings vertical acceleration helps with that in phase 2 a lot)
small timber
(or just ram the head)
lyric depot
I’d like some gameplay with that
frosty trellis
Don't even need to ram the head
swift wharf
actual beast of a wing
unborn oriole
Or just fly up and down
swift wharf
LMFAO
small timber
I mean, I have a lot?
lyric depot
Sure, send it
unborn oriole
I’d like some gameplay with that
Its hard not to find
lyric depot
God fine
unborn oriole
Look at any verified nohit
lyric depot
I’ll search it myself
swift wharf
good question
unborn oriole
Rams are a blessing
small timber
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gRD68dUxVw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTQvqtaxOtU&t=155s
I think these two are the most appropriate to the topic
frosty trellis
I used tarragon over elysian until polterghast, you don't really need massive sp...
Sometimes I just skip Elysian bc I can't be bothered to fight prov in the hallowed/night and tarragon is fine by itself
fossil finch
It says "any headpiece" for clarity
It doesn't need a headpiece, it need the entire armor
It just works while wearing either helmets
frosty trellis
oh tarragon just straight up have more flight time than elysian now? thats surpr...
Tarragon 250
Elysian 240
swift wharf
I think it works with auric too
swift wharf
wtf
still zodiac
it's auric
small timber
surprisingly tarragon have better stat than elysian
swift wharf
something is fucking up my revives
lyric depot
Didn’t know everyone despises wing boots
small timber
so it really is just 10% ms difference (I grabbed seraph tracer stat too since it is convenient)
personally I dont really despise, they have their use
swift wharf
despising is a strong word, it's just that calling wings useless is kind of a blasphemy
small timber
they still provide massively more ground speed, just generally people fight while flying a lot more
frosty trellis
Elysian Wings have better horizontal speed and acceleration, making them more optimal for tap flying against DoG
still zodiac
the boss design in post-ML generally doesn't require you to run on the ground a lot
lyric depot
Damn
still zodiac
and even then you can just tap fly to get the same effect generally
frosty trellis
Tap flying is something I learned how to do fighting DoG and I haven't stopped using it since
small timber
and I think celestial tracer is actually better than drews' wing, just because most of the time you dont need that much flight (with draconic elixir and soaring potion), while the more iframe from taking damage of celestial tracer is very helpful
fossil finch
Tap flying you have to with mutant it's funny
west jackal
Tap flying you have to with mutant it's funny
No because I have no idea what that means
fossil finch
Bh is solved by hooking
west jackal
Staying in place?
swift wharf
hooking?
frosty trellis
I forget my hook exists half the time
swift wharf
fossil finch
That's ur fault
frosty trellis
Bc the brimstone monsters are fast and by 10% of SCal I am way more focused on not getting hit in bh5 then remembering to hook for more flight time
small timber
I see your point
And raise bh5
I reset my flight every 2 seconds eventhough I have 10 seconds of flight so it is not a problem
still zodiac
in the end it depends on the person, so
swift wharf
minecart track arenas are evil entities
frosty trellis
Bc the brimstone monsters are fast and by 10% of SCal I am way more focused on n...
Bc I already hate SCal and don't want to die to her in The end
fossil finch
It doesn't even
west jackal
It does even
fossil finch
His ass did not get the joke
west jackal
Nope😎
frosty trellis
I personally prefer Drew's wings over the tracers bc I like the flight time a lot, especially during SCal and Thanatos, since that makes running from that insane worm to adren stall a lot easier
fossil finch
anyway yeah auric boots are usually used above dres
fossil finch
Cuz most people don't have problems retaining flight time at those fights
west jackal
Yeah because extra immune time
frosty trellis
Doesn't death mode already have an iframe cap? (I already have rampart of the deities equipped by that point)
frosty trellis
I don't use the chair until endgame regardless if I do Exos first or not
small timber
https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Immunity_frames I use this page, but the number do seems abit off (since rampart's iframe feels really long)
but ya assuming the page is accurate, rampart give no way near close to the iframe cap, and celestial tracer (should) give 3x more than rampart
still zodiac
it probably wasn't updated
small timber
rampart should be giving 1/6 second of iframe, while celestial tracer give 0.5 sec
still zodiac
since it was mentioned a long time ago that deific and rampart give more iframes
since it's supposed to be a proper upgrade to cross necklace
small timber
oh right I just tested this recently too
still zodiac
though the wiki definitely seems off
small timber
(let me just do one where I just put my hitbox into dog body or something)
ok, funnily enough, celestial tracer iframe straight up is bugged and no one noticed
still zodiac
wait what?
small timber
still zodiac
well that's something
small timber
also I definitely think star veil and rampart is not intended to give that much, or the wiki is not accurate, that is not 1/6 of a second
that is near half a second (or more) iframe from the two item, which is what celestial tracer is supposed to give
small timber
@worthy lintel (I just ping the first tester that is online)
seemingly celestial tracer iframe is not working
worthy lintel
interesting
small timber
I will completely clean up my mod folder and try again just to be safe
still zodiac
pretty sure it's just calamity wiki that's not updated, since cross necklace and star veil do give a huge chunk of iframes
small timber
(in case nycro nohit affect it but I doubt it without having nohit setting activated)
still zodiac
and as I said earlier, when shark tooth necklace and jellyfish necklace was removed from deific's recipe, the iframes were supposed to be buffed to compensate
worthy lintel
ill be honest i dont know why tracers are meant to give extended iframes in the first place
it randomly appears at the last step on the tree
still zodiac
they just do
worthy lintel
small timber
I think to compensate for the flight time nerf maybe?
since it lose a solid 1.5 second flight from drew's wing (250 vs 360)
worthy lintel
tracers have better acceleration
small timber
oh wait that is near 2 seconds
worthy lintel
byea
small timber
ok removed all mods and it is still the case, tracer iframe is just not working
still zodiac
well that's just amazing
small timber
I think they were given extra iframe ya, just the current version feels really weird
as in, it is extremely similar to vanilla's overpowered version of cross necklace effect, rather than supposed to only "give some extra iframe"
small timber
this is vanilla, not just tmodloader without mods, I open up my old journey world terraria, as vanilla as it gets
gray nebula
perennial's chance to be removed is near 0 because work has already been done on...
well work has been done on the obtention half
nothings to say we can't remove most of the set for better items
distant gyro
to be fair does any old ore set ever actually exist
distant gyro
that has been mentioned with the deletion spree doc where things weren't deletable despite them not actually existing
just for the set to have somethingtm
frosty trellis
Hydrothermic's set bonus could use a little touch up bc a free inferno potion when under half when you could just buy the potion from the witch doctor seems a little redundant. Otherwise the armor is solid
distant gyro
old ore armor sets are a mess, victide included
gray nebula
victide armor looks cool tho
😎
i dont have any good ideas for its effects that s all
distant gyro
unfortunately it is still go underwater become stat chungus
gray nebula
AND an epic seashell thing
frosty trellis
Victide with the boomerang thing I think is fine. Doesn't need anything crazy as it also just has good stats until post evils (or skeleton if you're ranger, or queen bee for summoner)
It's more designed to be able to explore the sunken sea and sulfurous seas after DS and eye have been defeated for it's water buffs, so the underwater stuff makes sense for that point in progression sulfur seas have no reason to go exploring but it's a nice touch for when they do
drowsy plank
honestly victide armor set bonuses borrowing from their weapons for inspiration wouldnt be a bad idea
frosty trellis
I just don't think every armor needs to be crazy like wulfrum lol
drowsy plank
obvs their ability to ignore water physics is important but making them have more blatant effects would be nice
frosty trellis
Possibly
I don't really think it is in a need of that much of a rework with wulfrum rework coming and it's a good armor by itself already. Every armor set doesn't need to be crazy. Some can be a little boring for an armor that affects all classes is fine imo. It's also early in profession, so there isn't too much you can do with it
small timber
what if just give victide some effect akin to "you are always under water" ?
(having victide itself lose some of the underwater effect of course)
frosty trellis
I was gonna say
drowsy plank
it was always a thought i had yeah
frosty trellis
That would basically be infinite flight post DS otherwise
small timber
ye, I feel victide can just be a simple(r) option, considering there are other options like ores, evil1 armor (crimtane, demonite) to choose very close to the progression
frosty trellis
Evil armors are post evil bosses, which are later in progression, but fair
I've always seen victide as fine as is
except urchin mace, plz buff
small timber
I think victide is a bit too short-lived tbh, especially now that ore armors are very good, most of the time even outright skipped
drowsy plank
giving a shitty little dash to sheild of the ocean, with a buffed version while underwater (seriously why doesnt deep diver have a dash unless ur in the water) would be a cool way to use the victide effect
small timber
ye, and open up some build option, similar deal to bone wing where although your armor might be worse you have some effect that otherwise are not normally available
(though bone wing dont accomplish that very well)
drowsy plank
add a buff to bone wing and turn deep diver into victide bone wing ez
frosty trellis
I think victide is a bit too short-lived tbh, especially now that ore armors are...
For mages it never gets use bc jungle is pre boss and better
unique vector
i dont have any good ideas for its effects that s all
you become cnidrion
adn squirt water everywhere
gray nebula
Sucks restart
