Tech Lab forum - General Discussions!

[mossy gull]

Same counts for the Microsoft Xbox controller

I have like 20+ limited edition controllers from multiple manufacturers.
Most are wireless and depending on the Bluetooth a system has, it's either stable or unstable, that's why I never look at reviews from people who say connection was horrible.

[iron rock]

screw it, will get the silly pastel one.

[mossy gull]

But they also come in black and white😅

[surreal moss]

Color is life

[iron rock]

the cheap ones only come in pastel.

[mossy gull]

Weird😐
I find mostly black and white ones😅

[iron rock]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0C2TXM992/ref=ewc_pr_img_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

that is what I was going to get

anyone know what kind of batteries are best for quest 2 controllers? I know they take AA batteries but do they need the higher voltage of alc, lithium or the new zinc batteries or are they fine with NiMH batteries?

[mossy gull]

Ah okay, I found these, which are against your budget😅
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B9B2ZFGZ

[mossy gull]

They are fine with Duracel NiMh batteries

[iron rock]

that one as far as I can tell is exactly the same as the pastel version... there is a verison above that with seemingly the same name??? that says it has the HAL effect sticks. I dont understand it

[mossy gull]

Not that I know off, Amazon is as clear with its titles as someone who writes a book while being analphabetic I think it's called.

[sacred seal]

Personally I would get a set of rechargeable lithium batteries for a quest 2, changing the batteries is a massive pain

And they eat a decent amount of them

[cerulean helm]

So the Starfield Creation kit min ram requirement is 32GB, and recommended is 48GB. And when I launched it and it started to initialize is used 100% of my 13700k for at least a minute as it launched.
My water cooled cpu temps spiked hard for the entire time.

[surreal moss]

sigh 32 GB really is the new 16 GB

Thank you, Moore

[cerulean helm]

I was shocked that I watched my 13700k hit 220W just initializing the Creation Kit.

And sit there for at least a minute or two.

[mossy gull]

I hate you can't use a proper mod manager like Mod Organizer anymore

[mossy gull]

Bethesda likes to have an insane specsheet, yet the game will never use it.
For example Fallout 4, They said the game needs at least a 4-Core CPU, yet it only uses 2 cores.

[cerulean helm]

Mod Organizer 2 works just fine with Starfield. Load order isn't a thing with mod managers yet as they have to be updated for it. Not to mention LOOT needs to be built for Starfield.

And as I discovered you can sort the load order in the main menu on the game, which is great.

[cerulean helm]

It still acted like Cinebench when launching and starting up. That thing hammered my cpu.

[mossy gull]

From what I understood from someone else, the load order in the Creation Club in-game overrules any mod manager

[cerulean helm]

Well for now at least. To early to say if/what will be an issue.
Heck, some mods son't disable achievements now. And thats not limited to just texture mods either.

[jade scaffold]

Been looking again at lunar lake

They were showing off playing YouTube 4k video

Where last gen would use 10-20W with a 25W peak while doing so and the lunarlake is doing like 3-5W with an occasional 9W peak this is total system power btw and it was being recorded live from the wall

The peaks are apparently caused by the WiFi cards and how video streaming causes them to work in very high speed tiny bursts

It can do 1080p high settings with raytrace shadows at "over 60fps" with XeSS on F1 2024 realistically you wouldn't use a chip like this with RT imo so that's incredibly impressive for a chip that maxes out at 17w

[mossy gull]

Ray traced shadows isn't that impressive to be honest, I am more looking for Ray traced reflections

[jade scaffold]

Shadows are still pretty intensive

I would especially imagine so for a GPU with only 8 RT cores

[jade scaffold]

Been looking at steam deck benchmarks steam deck gets under 60fps with fsr on all high settings in 2023 so intel getting more than that in 2024 with some light raytracing for what is in effect less total board power is pretty nice

Could be cherry picking but I really do hope it's not

[mossy gull]

It's probably cherry picked, it's Intel afterall

[jade scaffold]

Tbf from their in depth architecture discussions I'm not expecting it to be extremely cherry picked

[mossy gull]

It's still cherry picked

[jade scaffold]

I would be happy with steam deck performance at it's lower total board power

[mossy gull]

The game's specs are 9600K and a Arc A580.

[jade scaffold]

Because 17w seems higher than 15 but it's actually not because that 17w includes the ram

It's also really good in video editing programs but Intel's gpus even their I GPUs have always been super advantageous to have as a accelerator for those kinda programs

[mossy gull]

Still, you don't need much CPU to run that game, not even the recommended GPU is amazing

[jade scaffold]

That's the same for every game though?

Can run cyberpunk on the steam deck

What has a super potato lil cpu

Quad core Zen 2 which shouldn't even be as fast as the E cores in lunar lake

[mossy gull]

CDPR made a potato mode for the SteamDeck though

[jade scaffold]

It's just low settings

That's like it xD

The highest end recommended spec I've seen for a game that isn't some sort of poorly made travesty is a gtx 1080

And that's recommended

Never seen anything close to that recommended as minimum

Cyberpunk recommends minimum of 1060 6gb but I've seen loads of stuff run it below that

Recommended specs are a lie

Unless the devs be super specific about it

Wonder if XeSS is gonna be improved to make use of the new insanely powerful ai processing capabilities of it

Would be nice to get an improved XeSS

[mossy gull]

CP2077 runs very very poorly on a 1060 though, I had 1 when CP2077 released.
You have to play on 720p

[jade scaffold]

Yes when it releasesed it also ran atike 30fps on a 3090

Runs much better later on down the line

It's like actually playable at 1080p low

[mossy gull]

It still runs like ass on a 6800M in 3440x1440😃
And the 2070 can't run it above 2560x1080😃

[jade scaffold]

Weird runs great on my 3090

And I'm running at borderline 4k 5120x1440

My friends 1070 and 7700k build at 1080p medium apparently manages always over 40fps

[mossy gull]

The 2070 is the GPU with 7GB fast VRAM and 1GB slow VRAM, and on 3440x1440 medium you need more than 10GB VRAM

[jade scaffold]

Yea that makes sense

But at 1080p vram requirements are much less

[mossy gull]

But I have a 3440x1440 display, so 1080p looks not good on it

[jade scaffold]

1060 6gb manages at low fine as does the 1070 at medium it's even allrightish for high on the 1070

[jade scaffold]

Yea 1440p is an unusual resolution tbh

Double 720p

Well quad

[mossy gull]

And yet, very popular

[sonic meadow]

2560x1440 is relatively common, 3440x1440 less so

[jade scaffold]

Yea it is common

[mossy gull]

I lived through the years of 2560x1080 resolutions

[jade scaffold]

It's a in-between Res between 1080 and 2160 but if you say can't run 1440p it looks terrible to run 1080p on it

[sonic meadow]

literally. wqhd, wide quad hd. hd being 720p

[jade scaffold]

720p is no longer considered hd fun fact

[mossy gull]

Funny enough running lower res on the 6800M looks fine, but once I go to the 2070 it looks awful and greyish.

[jade scaffold]

Most things won't advertise it as such anymore

[mossy gull]

720p = HD
1080p = FHD
1440p = QHD
2160+p = UHD

[jade scaffold]

Also I just realised F1 23 on the steam deck would be running at lower Res than the Lunar lakes F1 24 demmo so there might be a bigger performance gap than I thought

[sonic meadow]

whoops, wqhd was 3440*1440

and yeah, precisely

[mossy gull]

I wonder how the game will run on the 780m

I don't have the game though, but I have Dragon's Dogma 2 😃

[wary frigate]

Over kill anyone

The shop now smells like magnesium

They caused a magnesium fire

[jade scaffold]

Goofy processor names this gen from both amd and intel

[sonic meadow]

Well intel has stuck with the core-i# #/##### naming for their mainstream chips for quite a while now. Longest naming run they have had

[jade scaffold]

Yes but what is a V268

Amds HX370 is the same situation the number isn't telling you much

[sonic meadow]

is that even the release product name?

apprently it is.
part of the Core Ultra 200V series

which are the low power variants of the Core Ultra 200(K) desktop chips and Core Ultra 200H Laptop chips

[jade scaffold]

Technically the V Chips are a different architecture

[sonic meadow]

true, Lunar Lake vs Arrow Lake

[jade scaffold]

They are built very differently internally to the k chips

[jade scaffold]

ARM Are being stupid

They are trying to torpedo all snapdragon X devices

Why? Because they want to enforce a new look vending agreement that decides the price of a licence based on the total cost of a product using an arm chip

[sonic meadow]

its obviously just the camera lens playing tricks on us

[mossy gull]

Or a beta feature

[urban imp]

If I were to submit a takedown request for a Youtube video that contains my content. Does the electronic signature and other information get shared with the person that I am claiming against?

[stable bolt]

Depends a little how you are going about doing it - did the automated system pick up that it was your content? or did you find it yourself and are submitting a request manually?

If it's the second one, and they chose to dispute it and follow through that whole process to the end, then eventually yes, it might

[urban imp]

Thanks W4sted, it is the second one. Which is why I wanted confirmation. As while I found information on Googles own help section, I wanted experience from someone who does Youtube

[stable bolt]

Sadly it's the worst case scenario, if they really chose to fight, eventually that info gets provided

[urban imp]

Yer, I figured it would be worst case. I'm guessing that would be if it were going to be going into some sort of legal proceedings thing. Namely so that the information can be provided to a lawyer.

I assume that there are a few levels before it gets to that stage and you can drop the claim if it does close?

[mossy gull]

You know what I am surprised about till this day?
I have a laptop with a desktop 10900K, 2080 Super and 128GB RAM, which consumes almost 450w, and it cools better than every new laptop on the market, and it doesn't even have a vapour chamber

[balmy flicker]

what is a good tool for cliping a video into a gif for Discord

[mossy gull]

I usually use this website
https://ezgif.com/video-to-gif

[balmy flicker]

thx I fond klang in the not a lego game

[frozen igloo]

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/NTy7L9 how does this look for a sub $800 1080p editing rig? This would be reusing one of our old power supplies and driving to microcenter hence the edited prices, ideally the vendor would be restricted to bhphoto or amazon though I can get some leeway with that

[sacred seal]

Looks solid. Not a fan of the CPU, but 250 for cpu, mobo and 16gb of ram is hard to beat

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/BLGDWt

Bit more, but gets you the full 8 cores

And more of an upgrade path (not that there is much value in that)

[frozen igloo]

I was given a soft budget of 800 so that's not a huge issue, I just need to convince my boss to go amd vs intel at that point

[sacred seal]

Also seems like that case has some higher end ports, so the older motherboard means they wont be fully functioned

[balmy flicker]

is there a way to tell why a hard crash is happening on the steam deck?

[mossy gull]

System logs😃

[cinder lagoon]

With crash you mean freeze or..??

[cinder lagoon]

If linux crashes it usually displays some kind of kernel panic.
If it's just the user interface, you can probably switch to tty2 via keyboard hotkeys (tty1 displays the UI and desktop etc) and run something like sudo dmesg | tail

[balmy flicker]

Full on I have to force restart the system crash

When I lodad screw drivers it now always locks up I found that I can load it if I turn the wifi off for some reason

[cinder lagoon]

This oesn't answer my question - is audio still playing or does it stop/hang?

You can also try looking at sudo dmesg after the restart but I'm unsure it persists

[balmy flicker]

Stop no audio total screen freeze and my force close key bind will not work either

[cinder lagoon]

Okay than look at the output of dmesg and try find the point where the system time changed. If it doesnt, the log isnt persistant lol

[balmy flicker]

Fun despite not setting up any passwords there is one by default and my steam account is not it I'll have to try again when I have more time

[cinder lagoon]

https://logmeonce.com/resources/steam-deck-default-sudo-password/#:~:text=A%3A The default sudo password,when using your Steam Deck.
deckadmin

[balmy flicker]

Thanks im in though I'm not completely sure what I am looking for/at

[cinder lagoon]

As I said - the time jumps (and last messages before and after that) and anything that reads "panic" or "error"
if you want you can share the link of a pastebin of your kernel log (sudo dmesg)

[soft wraith]

Hey, I need some help. My computer isn't connecting to the internet on my browsers, but my Discord, Steam, and games work fine.

It just keeps saying "connection was reset" on chrome, and won't connect to anything

When I restart my computer, the connection works fine for a few seconds, then it doesn't

[mossy gull]

Have you tried Edge yet?

[soft wraith]

I did, its the same problem

But all of my other apps work fine

[surreal moss]

Try
netsh int ip reset
netsh winsock reset

[soft wraith]

I reset my network and cleared my caches

[soft wraith]

Where would I try those?

[surreal moss]

A cmd prompt or powershell

I had a user with the exact symptoms you describe last week and this is how we fixed it

[soft wraith]

Where would I find a cmd prompt or powershell?

[surreal moss]

Open the start menu and type cmd

Tell it to run as administrator

[soft wraith]

How do I tell it to do that?

[surreal moss]

It should be an option on the right side of the start menu

[soft wraith]

It isn't there

[surreal moss]

Which version of windows?

[soft wraith]

Windows 10 I believe

No, Windows 11

[surreal moss]

If you right click on Command Prompt does it have the option?

[soft wraith]

I don't think so

No

Wait, I found it

[surreal moss]

Nice!

[soft wraith]

Okay, I ran both

Didn

Didn't work

[surreal moss]

Hhhmmm

[soft wraith]

Wait, stuff is slightly working, it is just extremely slow

Or, looks really weird

[surreal moss]

Oh, it’s repopulating the caches

[soft wraith]

Best Buy (who I called, I know better than to bring my computer there), said it might be a virus

[soft wraith]

I cleared the caches

[surreal moss]

Exactly

[soft wraith]

I cleared the caches after this problem started, though

[surreal moss]

Their empty so it can’t pull from them to shorten times

It uses caches to speed things up

[soft wraith]

Interesting

But some sites, like Pinterest for example, are just not loading

[surreal moss]

Having a cache is like having your bag of potato chips with you instead of in the kitchen

[soft wraith]

While others are loading very slowly

And some are loading fine

Well, no, they're all having problems actually

Some are just very slow, not working in some cases, and some just don't work at all

My google drive is drifting from online to offline

[mossy gull]

Could be that your ethernet or WiFi driver got buggy

[soft wraith]

I tried it on my personal hotspot, and I had the same problems. Plus, all of my other apps are working just fine. Its only my browsers.

[mossy gull]

I mean, the ones inside your PC, not your modem

[soft wraith]

I did a network reset

Same problems

[mossy gull]

Your PC has 2 devices for Internet, sometimes 3.
If a driver gets corrupted your Internet can misbehave

[soft wraith]

My ESET security hasn't detected anything wrong

[soft wraith]

How would I check that?

[mossy gull]

What if you turn ESET off?

[soft wraith]

Tried that, and my VPN, didn't work

My VPN is still off

[mossy gull]

What if you change the DNS on your system

[soft wraith]

DNS?

I'm thinking about just bringing my computer in to get checked

I haven't brought it in since I bought it anyway, which is my fault

[mossy gull]

It's a setting in many network drivers, sometimes the basic DNS can misbehave, you can change it to for example 1.1.1.1 or 8.8.8.8

[soft wraith]

Hmm, I'll try that

[mossy gull]

Use the ones I mentioned above, use the 1.1.1.1 (Cloudflare) as primary and 8.8.8.8 (Google) as secondary

[soft wraith]

Where would I do that?

[surreal moss]

It’s not likely dns if things are working intermittently

I know you’ve rebooted at least once already. Have you rebooted since any of the changes have been made?

[soft wraith]

No, but I will try

[surreal moss]

But to check dns if you open the command prompt again and run nslookup google.com you should see something like “non-authoritative answer:” and then a name and ip addresses

Anything else would indicate dns isn’t functioning correctly

[soft wraith]

It said

Server: Unknown
Address: Blah Blah Blah (Shouldn't probably put in the IP address)

non-authoritative answer:
Name: Google.com
Address: Blah Blah Blah

Should I bring the computer into Best Buy and/or a tech store?

[surreal moss]

Okay, dns is functioning then. I wouldn’t take it to Best Buy for work but another tech shop might be able to help you more efficiently

Wait, have you cleared caches on one of your browsers?

[soft wraith]

Yes

[soft wraith]

Got it, thank you!

[surreal moss]

Good luck! I’d love to hear what they found

[soft wraith]

Me too

I'll probably take in in today or tomorrow

I really appreciate your guys help! I will keep you updated!

[soft wraith]

We uninstalled and reinstalled the network driver, and it works now

Micro Center for the win

[surreal moss]

[soft wraith]

I called them first

Instead of bringing it in

Just in case

And they helped me remotely

The IT guy said what y'all suggested was pretty much most of their list of solutions

So, thank you all, too!

[mossy gull]

That was 1 of my suggestions, probably worded it wrong

[balmy flicker]

I'll do that when I get home but I think the hard restart is wiping/corrupting the log as there are a few statements to that effect

[mossy gull]

Not the fastest speeds but I am happy with this

It's from 1 Corsair MP600 Core to another

While in a broken laptop XD

[balmy flicker]

6.832737] systemd-journald[373]: File /var/log/journal/82802f05c2774be68f2c460791efa1ec/user-1000.journal corrupted or uncleanly shut down, renaming and replacing.
[ 11.975729] wlan0: authenticate with c8:b3:73:55:98:a5

[ 12.700225] [drm] Failed to add display topology, DTM TA is not initialized.
[ 17.610829] input: Microsoft X-Box 360 pad 0 as /devices/virtual/input/input24

[ 19.150107] systemd-gpt-auto-generator[1820]: (The boot loader did not set EFI variable LoaderDevicePartUUID.)
[ 37.595693] input: Steam Deck as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:08.1/0000:04:00.4/usb3/3-3/3-3:1.2/0003:28DE:1205.0003/input/input25
[ 38.436388] [drm] Failed to add display topology, DTM TA is not initialized.
[ 39.912900] [drm] Failed to add display topology, DTM TA is not initialized.
[ 51.388338] input: Microsoft X-Box 360 pad 0 as /devices/virtual/input/input26

those are the most recent jumps after the last crash

[cinder lagoon]

Hmm so the log is non-persistant... good news: if you have a live-usb you can probably inspect the "corrupted" log file mentioned and it should give you information telling you exactly what went wrong

[balmy flicker]

hmm I assume that is linix boot drive I have one just not one that can interface with the deck (that and will should make a new one the one I have is an ancient version of ubuntu)

[cinder lagoon]

As long as you can tell the deck to boot via USB it should be fine, don't need any most-up--to-date versions or anything

Wait it seems you can view old (corrupted) journals from a live environment

journalctl -a, sudo if needed

also just wondering: are you able to watch netflix or whatever on it?

[cinder lagoon]

and with time jumps I meant from 1237 back to 0.001 etc

[balmy flicker]

AHH

[balmy flicker]

I have use YT with it yes
I think it is something to do with how screw drivers handles its back ups

[balmy flicker]

no luck with that command I might be typing it in wrong
I want journalctl -/var/log/journal/82802f05c2774be68f2c460791efa1ec/user-1000.?

[jade scaffold]

Snapdragon X is looking slightly disappointing

[cinder lagoon]

According to the forum journalctl -a should display multiple logs. Run journalctl --help if unsure

[balmy flicker]

/var/lib/steamos-log-submitter/pending/minidump/.staging-1718896835-gamescope-wl-10737

now to find and look at that log

Jun 20 09:23:26 steamdeck kernel: Out of memory: Killed process 2177 (Screw Drivers.e) total-vm:28725224kB, anon-rss:5721568kB, file-rss:0kB, shmem-rss:135>

that is the error for the ea version

[balmy flicker]

Deck has only 8g of ram right?

[cinder lagoon]

Yeah that looks like a memory error.

[cinder lagoon]

Uhhhmmm unsure, nope, checked, has 16.

Your proton VM is misconfigured (and does not seem to like memory errors very much)

I'm sure the problem will go away if you assign more memory.
If you have a system monitor installed it's worth checking it while the game is running in the background.
Maybe you can also increase the swap size if physical memory is actually used up.

Wait given that the recommended system memory of the game is 8GB, having 8G assigned should be more than enough

There must be a memory leak. (Maybe only via proton?)

[balmy flicker]

the issue is I can only load into the main menue atm

[balmy flicker]

it finally recovered from said crash on its own and spat out the previously shown memory error
I did some searching on how to increace alocated ram but I am mostly finding stuff on how to alocate more Vram

[cerulean helm]

Okay, was not expecting Kingpin to team up with PNY of all companies.

[mossy gull]

PNY mainly makes workstation hardware, but recently stepped into the realm of consumer hardware but aren't very good at it, so I can understand why Kingpin choose PNY

[cinder lagoon]

They probably also have great freedom there

[jade scaffold]

PNY make extremely high quality stuff and are no strangers to making unusual neich designs building alot of stuff for servers

and as we all know server hardware can get awefully wacky which is just what you want if you want to make silly ass overclocking cards

[mossy gull]

But they haven't been in the gaming scene long, mostly only server and workstation hardware

[jade scaffold]

which is pretty much allways higher quality

the only thing thats lower quality about workstation cards is the coolers are usually less overkill

but Kingpin does his own Cooler Design so thats not a concern

PNY sit at pretty much 0 risk as well playing fuck arround and find out with NVidia as they make all of the reference designs produce all their quadros

so on which means its likely kingpin would be able to get away with voltage control on a card which is what hed want

PNY i feel are the best choice they have little pressence currently in gaming aligning with king pin and releasing a kingpin card could see them gain domminance in the high end gaming scene

and from Kingpins persepctive being less limited by NVidia is a big plus

[mossy gull]

I once held a PNY card, don't own 1 though, they're pretty heavy, even for 2 slot cards

[jade scaffold]

yea they will be

most of their more compact cards use solid copper heatsinks i believe

and they tend to slap these 3mm thick aluminum back plates onto everything too

[mossy gull]

It was years ago on a Quadro RTX 😅

[jade scaffold]

anyway im excited to see where this goes if we get a kingpin 5090 maybe ill go for that over the FE if i find the look of the card acceptable

[mossy gull]

My GPU for the AyaNeo will be in the open so I just want a good looking card

[jade scaffold]

you seen the new minisfourm dock

thats a really clean looking dock

[mossy gull]

https://store.minisforum.de/en/products/minisforum-deg1-grafik-docking-station

[jade scaffold]

yeee

[mossy gull]

Yes, I am getting that 1

[jade scaffold]

its not only super cheap it looks sick af

I would kill for a Kingpin x Noctua PNY card that'd be so cool

[mossy gull]

It's pretty cheap compared to the alternatives, which are just a slot, this thing can hold a GPU and PSU

I am gonna be honest, even though Oculink failed in the server market, I have the feeling they will pull off for compact PCs, you can make tiny ass PCs with that

[jade scaffold]

its just not a good connection standard

its terrible for portable PCs especially

it can only acutally rated to be used 250 times

and its slower than thunderbolt 5 is anyway
all intel had to do was drop thunderbolt 5 like 3 years ago when they actually made it and they could have opened that up for USB to use like they did 3 and wed have a way better alternative but you know how intel are sometimes

[mossy gull]

I haven't seen Thunderbolt 5 compatible devices yet, so they're pretty late with it, and they just should open it up for all devices.

[jade scaffold]

yea intel have had the thunderbolt 5 spec for ages and just been sat on it

should be able to do 80 bidirectional 120 in one direction

[mossy gull]

They can ask royalty and everyone will still use it, but no they're just being assholes, if they wait too long they'll lose to an alternative.

[jade scaffold]

the thing is theres no real alternative

theres USB 4

and theres Occulink

[mossy gull]

USB5🙃

[jade scaffold]

and Occulink is just peak timed obcelessance the standard cant support gen 5 or gen 6 and its only rated for 250 cycles anyway

USB 5 would have to develop its own Protocall for doing PCIE over itself

or use intels if intel would be so kind as to let them

[mossy gull]

250 cycles, you probably unplug the device like 2 times a week, that's still longer than 2 years

Long enough for a handheld to meet its replacement

[jade scaffold]

not if you are taking a hand held with you every day to say college

also upgrading a 1k hand held every 2 years is a large ask for most people

most people are aiming for 4 years for a device

not even i upgrade my GPU every 2 years

[mossy gull]

You need to be happy if they survive that with how fast shit goes currently

[jade scaffold]

some enthusiasts might but 1.5k~ every 2 years is alot of money

[mossy gull]

I mean, that's 20 times as powerful, a handheld already games on low settings

[jade scaffold]

any kind of phone tablet PC should last atleast 4 years

yea but the gtx 1080ti is still relevant and its not far off 7 years old now

most hand held I GPUs are perfectl acceptable for 720p

frame gen being what it is rn also helps them alot

[mossy gull]

Well, here's the thing, I was curious how Dragon's Dogma 2 runs on older GPUs, so I tested 2 Alienware "laptops", 1 Asus laptop and my desktop.
The 2 Alienwares had an fps of whopping 12, 1 has a 2070 and the other 2080 Super, on paper both should be way more powerful than a 6800M which can't even boost without crashing, but they both lose to the 6800M because of the lack of VRAM, unless I play on low settings.
My desktop had 0 problems😅

While the 2070 and 2080 Super are still viable, they are showing their age with VRAM heavy applications.

[jade scaffold]

yes VRAM heavy aplications

all that 720p gaming really stressing the VRAM out

[mossy gull]

I am happy handhelds have fast RAM 😐

[jade scaffold]

putting ram near the chip shockingly helps

[mossy gull]

But still, last few years games have gotten really heavy, so 1K is most I'll spent on a GPU currently.

[mossy gull]

Now we need CAMM2 on desktops as well😅

[jade scaffold]

we're getting it

[mossy gull]

I just hate that all the most well known brands all have 16GB or less in their handhelds, while okay for older games, with newer games it's a no-no for me.

[mossy gull]

My brother doesn't like it, he says it'll never happen because Asian countries lack behind.

He doesn't understand that people want 10000 MT/s RAM.

I personally even have been looking at the different demo boards, and even though I don't like MSI, their Project Zero looks clean

[jade scaffold]

ya see im the opposite

i like wires

i think wires are ballin

well nice looking well managed wires

[mossy gull]

I don't mind them, as long they aren't as fragile as the 12-pin😅

Even Oculink survives longer

But personally, I don't like cables.

I hate that my Area-51m needs 2 330w adapters, but it's currently the only laptop that doesn't crash while gaming

Which will be replaced by the AyaNeo

[sacred seal]

PNY has been in the gaming space a very long time, they just have never been mainstream

[mossy gull]

I never ever seen their gaming cards😅
I only can find their workstation cards

[sacred seal]

If I am not mixing them up with someone else I think they were the vendor known for making white GPUs back when red and black was all the rage

[mossy gull]

Damn, that's an ancient card

[sacred seal]

It's not AGP, as far as things go its reasonably modern

I'm pretty sure you could put it in a modern rig and it would let you run windows 8

I don't know if it would work with windows 10

But yeah, PNY has been in the gaming space for as long as there has been a gaming space

I think they are more popular in China or something

Same with like power color

[mossy gull]

Passmark
9800GT, RX 780M, 4090

[sacred seal]

Yeah, that looks about right, though the 780m was substantually cut down compared to the 780

Back then mobile and desktop chips were very different

a 780m was probably somewhere between a 760 and a 770

The only suprising thing is that the 780 was like 1/4th the price of a 4090

4*7K = 2800. Shows how little value add we have gottten over the last 10ish years

[mossy gull]

That's the RX 780M, from AMD, not Nvidia 😅
I thought I throw in a mobile GPU

[sacred seal]

Ah, too many 780s

The white GPU was a 780 as well, that is why I thought you included it

[mossy gull]

Nah, I like to show how far iGPUs have come😅

There was a time even browser tasks were hard to run on integrated graphics.

[cinder lagoon]

I'm currently at that time again it seems xD

[cerulean helm]

I'd like to report a murder. GG GN.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0ZoCYXmF0Q

[cerulean helm]

Welp, DeepCool is fucked. By July 27th all DeepCool transactions and buisness will be blocked in the U.S. More than likely this will mean DeepCool will effectively shut down in the U.S.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjZp_pt-Gfs

[mossy gull]

They still have a huge market in EU and Asia

[cerulean helm]

They have been sanctioned, the entire global company. Meaning no U.S company can do business with them.

And I bet the EU will follow suit.

If any company does still work with them, then they too could be sanctioned.

[mossy gull]

I doubt it, we're also allowing Chinese cars while US is highly against them

[cerulean helm]

This is different. DeepCool got caught selling tech to a Russian company on the U.S sanction list.

So again, any EU company that still does buisness with DeepCool after July 27th will be sanctioned by the U.S. And put on the worst blacklist possible for a company. You sell to an company on the Entity list, you get put on the Entity list.

Watch the video. GN goes as far as to say sellers will be destroying all DeepCool inventory they have in stock.

[mossy gull]

I was looking at the MSI Titan specs, and this makes no sense, why give the CPU all the power and not the GPU?

That's on a €5500.- mind you

I rather have 300w to the GPU and 150w to the CPU

Before anyone asks, that CPU is the i9-14900HX, which is 25% slower than the 14900K, but uses same amount of power, which makes no sense at all.

[sacred seal]

Now the question is, is it the US subsidiary that is getting sanctioned, or is it the company itself. The articles I am reading keep mentioning the subsidiary, but I don't know if thats because they dont have any idea what they are talking about

[soft wraith]

The problem returned

How did it return.

I deleted the network driver, and redownloaded it again, which solved it last time. But nope.

[cerulean helm]

If effects the all the subsidiaries. GN asked a law firm that deals in this specific area. The State Department listed Beijing DeepCool LLC which is the main company if I watched GN's video correctly.

[jade scaffold]

the laptop 4090 is a 4080

it maxes out at like 320w and you arent getting that much more performance for 50w more

[cerulean helm]

Goodness, Starfield cooks my 13700k. CPU package temp stays in the low 80s in Akila City, spikes in the low 90s.

[mossy gull]

Laptop 4090 has a base TDP of 150w though, and is slower than a 4080 desktop.

The 4080 Desktop is between 10% to 20% faster than the 4090 Laptop

[sacred seal]

Good to know, I don't have internet at my place yet so I can't watch the video

[jade scaffold]

Yea so running more power to it will make it faster

[fierce monolith]

Can someone help me out real quick

[mossy gull]

Define "help me real quick"

[fierce monolith]

My stream not working

At all

[mossy gull]

Then why not out a desktop 4090 in the laptop and downclock it?

[mossy gull]

What stream?

[fierce monolith]

Steam

[sonic meadow]

start from the start.
describe what you are trying to do, what it should be doing, and what it is/isnt doing

[fierce monolith]

Ok am trying to get to start up it does the loading bar but won’t open up

And I tried task manager and reinstall steam but it still won’t open

[mossy gull]

Have you tried to manually uninstall the steam folder through Explorer?(You can leave the game folder alone)

[fierce monolith]

Yes

[mossy gull]

Have you tried to reboot the system

[fierce monolith]

Yup

Complete restart

My computer is around 2017 or older

[mossy gull]

Have you tried to run as admin?

[fierce monolith]

Yup

[mossy gull]

You are running Windows 10 or newer I hope?

[fierce monolith]

Um let me check that

It 10

[mossy gull]

Aye, do you have any anti-virus installed like McAfee?

[fierce monolith]

Yes it built in right

[mossy gull]

So Windows Defender?

[fierce monolith]

Yup

My a hp windows

[mossy gull]

Have you tried to temporarily turn it off through its settings?

And then use Steam

[fierce monolith]

Um no

It try that

Can I post a pic here to show what it doing

Ok I tried it but it not working

[mossy gull]

I have an idea what it's doing, did you have by any chance more displays in the past than you currently have?

But you always can send a picture

[fierce monolith]

It does this then nothing

[fierce monolith]

Maybe I don’t remember

I got memory issues

[mossy gull]

And after that it just disappears?

[fierce monolith]

Yup

[mossy gull]

Have you tried to put Steam in compatibility mode?

[fierce monolith]

Yes

[mossy gull]

@sonic meadow, do you have any ideas left?

[fierce monolith]

Ok this what I done I ran administered

[sonic meadow]

I do not

[fierce monolith]

I ran comp ability

I restarted it from task manager

I even redownloaded it from the steam site

[mossy gull]

And you fully wiped it manually

[fierce monolith]

I don’t know how to do that

[mossy gull]

@jade scaffold any ideas left?

[fierce monolith]

Am go in to my steam folder and wipe it clean

[mossy gull]

In explorer you have to find the Steam folder, usually under Program Files and then Steam

[fierce monolith]

Ok

Will I still have all my data though

Like empire at war data

[mossy gull]

Depends on how you delete it, there's a folder inside the Steam folder called Common I think it's called, if you "Cut" and "Paste" it in another folder, then delete it, that way your games are fine

[fierce monolith]

Dang it

I just did a complete wipe

I hope this works

Thank you for all your help

[mossy gull]

You can always redownload your games, your saves should be fine

[fierce monolith]

Ty

[mossy gull]

Anytime

[fierce monolith]

Man I didn’t know I had over 400 gb of data

[jade scaffold]

Because running the 4080 at 270w is more efficient than doing the same for the 4090

[mossy gull]

Well, 400GB kinda are rookie numbers for most of use here😅

[jade scaffold]

Peak efficiency for Nvidia gpus is about 50w under what they tend to pull

So 350-370w is most efficient for the 4090 the 4080 is much lower power

[mossy gull]

Aye, but Malick here has Steam problems, do you have any solution?

[jade scaffold]

Also 4090 dies are really hard to make and are turbo enormous so aren't exactly laptop friendly

Usually when steam doesn't open for me it's because the background task has bugged out but that's probably not the case if reinstalling it hasnt worked

[fierce monolith]

Now what

[mossy gull]

You wait?

[fierce monolith]

Man I hate waiting

Oh got learn patience sometime

[mossy gull]

Do you have an SSD?
Or still rocking spinning rust?

[surreal moss]

No. That’s normal for a typical user

[fierce monolith]

No idea

It installing now

[mossy gull]

I have 4TB of just games😐
I feel like an outlier then

[mossy gull]

You can find out if you open Taskmanager and in the performance tab it should say what you have😅

[fierce monolith]

I only got 5tb of storage

Ok

[surreal moss]

It should say “Disk” on the left side and then either hdd or ssd underneath that

You might have to click “More details”

[fierce monolith]

HDD

[surreal moss]

Okay, that’s generally a slower setup

[fierce monolith]

YEAH

Nope wiping it didn’t fix it

[surreal moss]

Just gotta let it do it’s thing

[fierce monolith]

Am leave it be for a bit

Steam ui error

[mossy gull]

What GPU do you have?

[fierce monolith]

The standard that came with my computer

[surreal moss]

Do you see anything from Steam in the Applications tab of task manager?

[fierce monolith]

Yeah it says running but it also say error

[mossy gull]

You can see in Taskmanager as well, the reason I ask this is if the GPU is sagging a bit to much it can cause anything from graphical glitches to unable to use hardware acceleration

[surreal moss]

If you close the error does the process go away?

[fierce monolith]

Yes

[surreal moss]

They wouldn’t have windows running in that case

[mossy gull]

Depends if the monitor is connected to the GPU or motherboard 😅

[fierce monolith]

It the motherboard

I know because I just replaced the battery

[mossy gull]

So your monitor is connected to the motherboard instead of the GPU?

[fierce monolith]

Look like it

[mossy gull]

When you replaced the CMOS, did you by any chance see a bad sag?

[surreal moss]

I’d hit up Steam Support

[fierce monolith]

I’ll take it out and look

Ty guy for everything

[surreal moss]

We’re pretty much tossing ideas at the wall. Steam will have the best catalog of information to check based on your symptoms

[fierce monolith]

Ty

[mossy gull]

@fierce monolith maybe try to connect the monitor to the GPU if you have 1, and see if Steam still throws errors around

[surreal moss]

Your system is old enough that it’s probably not hardware related without having other issues before hand

[fierce monolith]

Ill look when i go too my shop

[mossy gull]

I recently, like a year ago did repair software issues by replacing a bad sagging GPU.
It didn't show artifacting, but it did have render errors.

[fierce monolith]

Well I it was working yesterday

But then It just quit

[surreal moss]

That’s a 1000 series at most. It’s not going to have enough mass to to make that a likely issue

[mossy gull]

My laptop needs to be replaced and saw this MSI monster, while I would prefer another Area-51m, they aren't being build anymore and the Titan was the closest to a portable desktop, but this power requirement is insane😅

[mossy gull]

It was an RX 480 funny enough 😅
An MSI, black red angular design

[surreal moss]

Did you install anything new yesterday?

[fierce monolith]

Nope

[surreal moss]

Or do anything else with it?

[fierce monolith]

My dog unplugged it from the wall and it just died which was weird at most

[surreal moss]

Potentially some file corruption then

[mossy gull]

That can cause a software corruption, hopefully not a drive corruption

[fierce monolith]

Is there a way too fix that

[surreal moss]

Hit up Steam support. They can help figure out if something related was corrupted

[fierce monolith]

Ok

[mossy gull]

Software corruption yes, but if it's Windows the easiest way is to reinstall Windows, which means you can lose data if you don't back it up.

A drive corruption you're fucked and you need a new HDD/SSD

[fierce monolith]

Ok

[surreal moss]

A Windows reinstall shouldn’t be required

And the drive should be fine

[mossy gull]

If Windows is corrupted a Windows reinstall is the easiest method, the SFC Scannow and CheckDisk barely work when Windows is corrected.

[surreal moss]

Nuke and reload is always easier when you aren’t impacted. It should not be the first recommendation and Steam Support should have the information to fix the issue.

[fierce monolith]

Am back

This the inside

Had to take disc drive out to open it

[mossy gull]

Ah, you have a laptop, it does look yours has a dedicated GPU.

The big green thing is your HDD

[fierce monolith]

Yup it just fell out to

Oh and steam support didn’t even help

They said it a computer problem

[mossy gull]

I already thought so, that's why I never suggested it in the 1st place.

Can you give me a bit and see what I can find

[fierce monolith]

Sure

[surreal moss]

https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/1/3145094199290606261/

I used Windows system repair to restore those files, once they were fixed, Steam worked perfectly!

Might be worth a shot

[fierce monolith]

I’ll try it

So um it can’t repair the system

[surreal moss]

Does it detect an issue?

[fierce monolith]

No

[surreal moss]

How much space is left on your drives?

[fierce monolith]

No idea now it just restarted it repair system on it own

Am sorry for making trouble

[surreal moss]

No worries

[fierce monolith]

And thank you guys for all the help your giving

[surreal moss]

I’m irked Steam didn’t step up

[fierce monolith]

Is there. Way too force it ui to open

[cinder lagoon]

Thats not good. Did it fall far?

[fierce monolith]

No

It fell on my bed

[surreal moss]

You said you reinstalled, right?

[cinder lagoon]

Ohh good

[fierce monolith]

Yes

[surreal moss]

Is the repair still running?

[fierce monolith]

It fell on my bed which is my work space

Yup

[surreal moss]

Let’s allow that to finish

[fierce monolith]

Ok

Need a new hard drive

It cable is torn

[mossy gull]

Then you need a new cable, cables don't come with HDDs/SSDs unless they're external

[fierce monolith]

That what happened when I put it back in

[cinder lagoon]

Yeah thats done

Sorry who said to open it up?

[fierce monolith]

Well it said no hard drive detected and my battery was not in it so I decided to put my new battery in

And I saw it unplugged so I plugged it back in

[cinder lagoon]

Well, that makes sense

[fierce monolith]

Yeah

I guess that it am done

When I get a new hard drive I see if it fixes it

[cinder lagoon]

Thats a dell, right? Might be able to get a replacement cable

New harddrive wont be enough I think

Try cable first.

If you have another PC I would try the drive there first

[fierce monolith]

Ok

It whatever that one is

[cinder lagoon]

That is a SATA3 1TB Harddrive from Western Digital

The cables you need to attach it are two:
one bigger one from the power supply and a smaller one in about the same shape to the motherboard
watchout to not put them upside-down

They are meant to plug in while the system os off

[mossy gull]

If it's a Dell laptop, the power and SATA can be in 1 cable

[fierce monolith]

It a ho widows

Hp

[mossy gull]

Then it should be the same, if that's the HDD cable that broke.
I would look for your laptop model with HDD cable after it.
Example: Area-51m HDD cable

Because stuff changes fast it's hard to say what will work

[cinder lagoon]

https://www.ifixit.com/products/hp-touchsmart-15-f010dx-sata-cable
does the cable look like this?

Wait I think this one might be it
https://www.ifixit.com/products/hp-envy-touchsmart-m7-j020dx-sata-cable

[fierce monolith]

Ty

I might be able too repair it

I got a friend that might be able to put it back together

[cinder lagoon]

Well you're probably too, just need to open the cable latch and be careful lol

Its not witchery

[mossy gull]

https://youtu.be/dx4En-2PzOU

It's what I keep telling people, 8GB ain't enough and it's a joke

[cinder lagoon]

8GB was great up until about a year ago.
Then it just wasn't enough, especially at higher resolutions.
So glad my first GPU (RX480) had 8Gb cause it was really consistently mediocre for a loooooong time, instead of going down hill from mediocre after only 3 years

[jade scaffold]

This lil thing is amazing

Intel's Optical IO chiplet

Has a photonic integrated circuit with the lasers and optical amplifiers on the chip itself

The current iteration is capable of 4 terabits per second but intel believe they can achieve 32 in the near future. It's also insanely reliable in comparison to the lasers used in traditional optical devices in data centre

This is so cool

This chiplet is designed to go on CPUs/GPUs/any other processor really providing a direct connect at insane distances

[jade scaffold]

https://youtu.be/Fml3yuPR2AU?si=RrzcSG1PDQ-fWVAF

It's so cool

Intel need to do more weird and wacky technology

[mossy gull]

Everytime they do they give it up later

[jade scaffold]

I know it's so annoying

And when they do make new tech it's usually baller stuff

I think this tech will stay arround tho

Coms tech this advanced is a enormous performance boost to ai

I miss optane it was so good

A gen 3 drive that can in real use outperform a normal gen 5 SSD

Intel were cooking with some serious gas there

The gen 4 optane drive trounces all gen 5 drives in the market in terms of program loading and responsiveness

Unless you use a ram disk, a ram disk is obviously going to win

[mossy gull]

I have used their 3D camera shinanigans before they stopped with it and others took its place

[cinder lagoon]

Optane was wicked when it came out for data center stuff
it was just not necessary anymore two years later, been superseeded by faster regular SSDs (when used in arrays etc, not alone).
I think this will stick because fast CPU interconnects have always been really bulky and wasteful in the data centers, optics would actually change that for a reasonably long time

[jade scaffold]

it actually hasnt

it was never superseeded by SSDs

Modern Gen 5 SSDs still cant hold a candle to what optane was

It was superseeded primarilly by modern CPUs having such absolutly absurd ram support

as well as the ability to shove ram in PCIE slots
Optane however for the consumer space would still be insane the p5800x Optane drive trounces any Gen 5 SSD for the loading of programs despite having theoretically less than half the max bandwidth

the only SSD that comes close is a solidigm (Formerly Intel) Low latency SSD but it wasnt optane it was just increadibly low latency

another advantage of optane was the fact that the drives are damn near unkillable

[mossy gull]

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/amds-new-zen-5-chip-up-to-55-faster-than-intels-core-i9-13900k-in-leaked-benchmark-amds-ryzen-9-9950x-purportedly-shines-in-avx-workloads

[jade scaffold]

I doubt that

The 9700x can't match the 7800x 3D unless ran at practically double it's base tdp

[mossy gull]

I mean that's in games though 😅

[jade scaffold]

It is but AMDs next gen is only 16% faster

Unless you up the power on them a bunch then they can get a little over that

This is also in avx workloads

Which just means amd have crammed a bunch of avx accelerators onto this chip

[mossy gull]

Which is useful for my line of work, we rely on AVX

Intel sadly only supports up to AVX2, and AMD up to AVX-512

[jade scaffold]

Intel hurry up

i want my 512 Core CPU

[mossy gull]

I think AMD would be 1st

[jade scaffold]

doubt tbh

amd would need to over double the density of their Zen C cores

with that socket size intel should already have the required density needed

like thats a socket they have already made and has been in testing but intel are holding off on releasing anything for it

thing is AMDs Zen C cores are full on cores they have everything the normal Zen cores have but with their cache ammount slashed in half

intels E cores are x86 still yes but without all the bloat and also less cache this makes them Realy Really REALLY smol and they also sip power

[mossy gull]

I mean, you can have double the cores, but if they don't have AVX-512 support if you need it then it's a no-go

[jade scaffold]

its a server CPU it has AVX512

same way Epycs AVX 512 performance is way beyond what ryzens is

[sacred seal]

I was looking at the social blade numbers for LTT, its amazing how much damage GN did to them. They went from gainging about 75k subs a month to an average of 33k, and their average view counts are down by about 25% and it's been like 9 months. That also seems to be the case across all their channels. Given they had just invested massive expansion, this has got to be hurting.

If they could do that to LTT, I wonder what thier reporting does to companies like Asus

[cerulean helm]

LTT is just clickbait views now. Very little they do is technical educational stuff.

[cinder lagoon]

I don't agree. There's just so many times and ways you can build a computer

The other projects ARE entertaining because you don't see someone cool their home-pc server rack with a pool or built a LAN-gaming-center everyday

[cerulean helm]

Meh, even their "project" videos are more them just screrwing around not actually building something properly.

[cinder lagoon]

What do you mean as an example?

[cerulean helm]

Well, the using the pool for water cooling. 90% of the video is just them fixing the jank setup they first installed as its "more entertaining" to watch. Or their server videos where they redo shit mutiple times rather than just doing it right the first time.

Its clickbait crap imo.

[gleaming hill]

https://news.sky.com/story/spacex-given-permission-to-destroy-the-international-space-station-13160041

Not sure if this is true or nor

[surreal moss]

iirc the ISS is slated for decom in the coming 10 years

[cinder lagoon]

Its already descending, someone has to do it controlled

[cerulean helm]

Well, Starfield its officially the hottest running game I have. Spikes into the 90s and nearly throttled.

I should add, it runs 5.5 P cores and 4.2 E cores while running the game.

[mossy gull]

Bethesda games are poorly optimised

Even Starfield

[jade scaffold]

though i gotta say the ammount of physics it can handle is actually pretty impressive

even if it dont run great

[mossy gull]

@jade scaffold remember the MSI Titan I mentioned, apparently it's slow as balls, it has I believe a 420w powerbrick, yet it loses from 1 with a 330w thanks to the CPU😅

[mossy gull]

https://www.pcworld.com/article/2378322/qualcomm-adreno-x1-vs-intel-arc-real-world-performance-in-7-games.html

[jade scaffold]

Yea Qualcomm have sadly fallen short

I wonder how well it'll do if compiled especially for Arm

But box86 I think it's called is an emulation layer made for games and that works surprisingly well very far from perfect but I've seen android phones playing gtaV which is relatively impressive

[mossy gull]

GTA5 ain't that impressive

[jade scaffold]

Emulated on an android phone it is

[sonic meadow]

gta5 can run on really mid hardware (relative to current gen PC stuff), but running something like that on a phone is impressive

[jade scaffold]

Where a phones gpu isn't even matching a 1030 because ya know that GPU has all of 3w

Then your emulating x86 on your dinky little mobile Arm cores

[mossy gull]

I do wonder right, we seen with Starfield what optimisation can do.
And even without optimisation what it does in Star Citizen.
Even a weak GPU like the 7900XTX can beat the 4090.

[jade scaffold]

Yea honestly the GPU in the elite x is fine for gaming

But the CPU performance because of emulation isn't there

Devs need to compile their games for arm if they do that they should run probably fine

[mossy gull]

Well, on Apple it seems to work amazingly

[jade scaffold]

Most of the games in apple are actually ported

Some are emulated but alot have been actually ported

[mossy gull]

I have played Star Citizen with Wine on a MacBook with an M3 Max I think it was

[cinder lagoon]

... Maybe 8GB is enough..?
https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/gpus-get-a-boost-from-pcie-attached-memory-that-boosts-capacity-and-delivers-double-digit-nanosecond-latency-ssds-can-also-be-used-to-expand-gpu-memory-capacity-via-panmnesias-cxl-ip

[surreal moss]

I still need to read up on pci-over-tcp

[mossy gull]

I still believe it ain't enough

[cinder lagoon]

Nah imagine you just buy a GPU VRAM combo thats enough for like 90% of your usecases and for the rest you get the slightly slower expansion vram

[surreal moss]

This is the article sent to me
https://www.credativ.de/en/blog/credativ-inside/netapp-storage-and-nvme-of-for-breakthrough-performance-in-proxmox-virtualization-environments/

[tender plank]

operate over Fibre Channel (FC), Ethernet
Ahh, that makes a LOT more sense.

Still a hell of a lot slower than proper NVMe, but far more reasonable than my initial expectation of it being standard ethernet.

and even utilize InfiniBand
And now I'm back to being horrified...

InfiniBand is really cool, but for PCIe?

[tender plank]

Wait, brainfart, are you talking about NVMe over ethernet or PCIe over ethernet?

[surreal moss]

Apparently I meant NVMe

Like I said, I need to read the article and haven't yet

[tender plank]

Yeah, that's a lot more understandable.

It's just talking about how NetApp works with NVMe storage shelves that need to be connected via some form of fabric. While fibre channel is preferred due to minimal latency, you can use anything but it will detriment the performance of the shelf.

[mossy gull]

90% of my use cases?
My friend, 90% of my usecases need more than 64GB of VRAM.
How is 8GB enough?

[cinder lagoon]

Okay, maybe not your use cases but mine (mostly gaming, sometimes recording/cutting) rarely need more than 6GB even on highest settings.

[mossy gull]

On older games that's fine, on newer games it's almost a no-go.
Even Dragon's Dogma 2 uses 8GB on 1080p medium

[old otter]

What's a good setup for modern-day streaming, recording and gaming

[sacred seal]

Pretty well anything modern can do those things, it's more a question of how well you want them to do it, and how much you want to pay

[old otter]

$1000 can is my budget

[sacred seal]

Full setup, or just the pc?

[old otter]

Just the pc

I only need the tower and it's inside bits

[sacred seal]

Pre-built or are you willing to build your own?

[old otter]

I guess which ever stays in my budget

[sacred seal]

Custom tends to be better value

[old otter]

Ok

[sacred seal]

I'm currently at work, but someone else will probably come on and knock you up a parts list in the next several hours

[old otter]

Thank you to you and whomever does that

[frank blaze]

New to the chat, building pc i5 13600kf asus rog strix z790-h with a evga Rtx 3080ti 12gb ftw3 been trying to play empire at war for time so curious about the highest resolution i can run empire at war on while still maintaining decent frames

[sacred seal]

Depends on the mods

Stock max settings

[jade scaffold]

Yea CXL is cool tho it's data centre only ATM

[jade scaffold]

You'll be able to play empire at war 4k max settings easy

The limit to performance there is gonna be how old the engine is

[jade scaffold]

That USD?

[sacred seal]

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/q6VYsh Assuming can means cad

Man GPU prices are brutal

This thing wont play games amazingly well, but your streams will be crisp

[mossy gull]

@cinder lagoon
https://youtu.be/dx4En-2PzOU

[sacred seal]

I cant watch the video properly so mabey I am missing something, but every game in that video uses less then 8gb of vram at its lowest setting, and most of the cards with only 8gb of vram are probably not doing 60plus fps at those settings anyways.

It only specifies how much vram is used, not the level of degradation. Remember recording vram ussage accurately is nigh impossible, so exceeding vram may not even do anything.

The 3070 is probably th e only card where this is actually an issue

[mossy gull]

Well, I tested an old 2080 Super against a much newer 6800M(underclocked).
While on paper the 2080 Super is more powerful, there are games, even Nvidia optimised titles that fall behind in 1440p in terms of performance.

Dragon's Dogma 2 is a nice example of a VRAM heavy game, even on low settings it's below 15fps, the 6800M which in my case is underclocked to prevent overheating pulls ahead with 20fps to 40fps.

Cyberpunk 2077 is also a funny case, in 1080p the 2080 Super pulls ahead, in 1440p it gets crushed by the 6800M.

Then I have a funny case, Star Citizen, keep in mind the 2080 Super runs with a Threadripper 7970X(I had no other CPU) and the 6800M with a slower 5900HX, yet the 6800M pulls ahead with double the performance easily.

But then these are pretty VRAM heavy games.

[sacred seal]

Comparing across vendors is not great ither. You have drivers to contend with, as well as other vendor specific optimizations

I forgot the 2080 series only had 8gb of vram as well. It would be in the same boat as the 3070 as a GPU that is powerful enough to push higher settings, but is limited by vram

What settings are you playing dd2 that its doing 15fps on 2080s?

But even then you are kind of proving my point. Even with a card like the 2080, you are not gertting "playable" framerates on settings which actually exceed the vram

[mossy gull]

Dragons Dogma 2 was on medium with the 6800M, on the 2080S I tried bloody everything but never got it past 15fps unless I played on 720p.

In this case DD2 runs faster on an AyaNeo Flip DS because it in theory has "16GB VRAM" on my side.

[sacred seal]

Most people would not concider 20-40fps playable

Looking at some benchmarks, the only way you should be seeing numbers that low is if you have ray tracing on, in which case your numbers are even less relevant

[mossy gull]

Nope, on the 2080 Super even on lowest settings it was unplayable, which means RT off,

And RT makes little to no difference in DD2

[cinder lagoon]

Actually I would much rather go bottom tier current-gen CPU but therefor much better GPU
I know there is no "futureproof" but the 6600 actually kinda sucks. Would rather use a 1650 or something

[cinder lagoon]

I stand my point.
I'll make a list of used VRAM on max settings of my currently installed games list later.
Obviously the 8GB I mentioned are not enough for all games BUT this is not about top tier GPUs.
Slotting in a slightly slower 8G expansion that only gets used when dedicated is exceeded is absolutely valid on mid/budget cards imo

[mossy gull]

We just need GPUs with upgradable CAMM type VRAM 😅

[cinder lagoon]

That would be great aswell but given the fact that most GPUs are obsolete by the time their vram is, it would be kinda useless

There's some stupid exceptions (1060 3G, 8GB 4070 etc)

[mossy gull]

4080 12GB which was an entirely different GPU from the 16GB variant 😅

[cinder lagoon]

Thats not what I typed

[mossy gull]

I think what AMD does is also nice to have, they have a small cache in conjunction with their slower VRAM

[cinder lagoon]

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-4060-ti-8-gb.c3890
I was wrong for other reasons tho

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-2080.c3224
this also makes no sense

Just like this

[mossy gull]

Since when was there a 2060 12GB?

[cinder lagoon]

2021, cant you read? 🤓 /j

[mossy gull]

I personally think 8GB simply ain't enough anymore, not even on more budget cards

[cinder lagoon]

I think its absolutely enough, if you're willing to sacrifice just a little on texture quality

Ohh also if you're not gaming at 4k

Or with the 4x super-resolution that you set up some time ago

[mossy gull]

I don't use super resolution unless I know I have the headroom 😅
But if even on 1080p 8GB is borderline enough, then it simply won't be on 1440p

[mossy gull]

https://wccftech.com/teclab-geforce-rtx-4090-super-gpu-binned-26-gbps-g6x-nvidia-ad102-3090-ti-hof-pcb/

[jade scaffold]

cant do that

even though cam can be placed closer to the processor still not as close or low latency as placing it on the PCB

[mossy gull]

They can't, or they won't.

[jade scaffold]

they cant

[mossy gull]

Same that they can put on 32GB VRAM, but they won't

[jade scaffold]

the cam interface like any interface adds latency

in adition to that youd need like 6 cam modules to match the Bus width meaning some would have to be placed further away than others

[mossy gull]

That's why it has to be like on AMD cards, where it has a fast cache in conjunction to RAM

[jade scaffold]

memory has to be Equidistant from the Core

Nvidia cards have vastly superior cache to AMDs

having cache wont save you from needing to drag something out of memory in the next 6us

[mossy gull]

The point is, they can make it, they just won't.
Same that you can in theory put a desktop GPU into a "laptop", but they won't

[jade scaffold]

they can make it

but it'll be dog shit

[mossy gull]

1st few generations will be shit, like with everything.

[jade scaffold]

no ALL will be

[mossy gull]

They just have to improve on it

[jade scaffold]

you cant just cheat physics

you cant make a long distance = a short distance

[mossy gull]

Who said they have to be far away, you can make that distance even with swappable components.
It's just they don't want to build on it

Or else all RAM would be beside the CPU

[jade scaffold]

Because the CAM is on a seperate module

and again to match bus width youd need more than 1

and you cant fit more than 2 maybe 4 if you wanna deal with the signal integrity issues of glueing them back to back

and need i remind you ram has to be Equidistant from the chip

the Fastest CAM 2 modules arent even grazeing 1/4th the speed of GDDR5x

and you want them to somehow through some magic bull shit you thought up in your brain surpass double-tripple that

[mossy gull]

If we always did the "We can't" method, we still would walk everywhere and wouldn't have modern buildings.

We can make a GPU with upgradable VRAM, they just don't want to.
Because what they do now is exactly what Apple and many manufacturers do.
You want more of this, you have to get more of that.

[jade scaffold]

yea we COULD

you know what else we could make a GPU with a wall outlet on it

we can just ignore all the issues and say "But actually i know better than physics"

the CAM module due to its design will ALLLWAYS place memory effecitvly further away from the chip than placing the VRAM on the board next to the GPU as is typically done

[mossy gull]

Exactly, but they won't, because you know, they would lose a lot of revenue, if I could put 32GB on a 2080 Super, which still in horsepower is fine for majority of games and programs, Nvidia wouldn't sell their freaking RTX A6000 or whatever it's called.

[jade scaffold]

CAMM2 could MAYBE work allright for low end cards

its totally unviable for high end cards

its far too high latency

[mossy gull]

I think it would be viable still, especially if you make it work kinda the same as CPU Cache, where swappable memory would work like lvl 3 or 4.

[jade scaffold]

could you maybe design a new GPU memory inteface yea that could work better youll take a latency hit but no where near as large as CAMM2s

[jade scaffold]

jeesus christ

you cant just increase cache to offset latency issues

GPUs already have Stupid ammounts of cache

there is literally no extra room for cache at this point

and NO you cant stack it on top

[mossy gull]

This just sounds to me "We won't make it so we can sell you 25K costing workstation cards instead of an upgradable "gaming" GPUs.

[jade scaffold]

Stacked cache isnt low enough latency yet you'd pretty much need a way to 3d print your sillicon without stacking seperate layeres

i have explained to you why it is PHYSICALLY NOT POSSIBLE and yet you're on this conspiracy type shit of "big tech stifeling my GPU memory"

yea NVidia are cheap bastards with their GPU memory

thats true

could they develop an all new standard that would allow for modular GPU memory? Yea sure they probably could
Should they? probably. Is CAMM2 the awnser to your GPU Memory problems? NO

[mossy gull]

Look, I am just tired that I want to do my work at home, but I can't because I don't have enough VRAM.

I use to have 32GB VRAM when I had 2 of my Vega FE still working.
But now that doesn't work anymore and I have to spend at least 12K for a GPU with the exact same amount of VRAM.

Why can't I just get a 7900XTX or 4090 with more VRAM, why do I have to spend way way too much for a GPU just to get it?
Why isn't there an option to get a 4090 with slightly slower but more VRAM.

[jade scaffold]

CAMM2 is Great for CPUs
its vastly lower latency than DIMM/RDIMM
but its not even close to Soldered GPU memory, the Fact you would need 2 seperate Modules for a high end GPU at a minimum which would make the PCB way bigger because CAMM2 isnt as small as people think it is, the fact CAMM2 can only fit somany RAM Chiplets which would increase the individual Chiplet cost VASTLY and GDDR is already sold for like a 20x premium per GB, and you cant just add more cache to gpus to offset this issue because we are at the limit of how much cache we can cram onto these things at any given generation anyway

i get Modular memory would be cool and i want it too but CAMM2 is not the standard for that

[mossy gull]

Graphics cards are already humongous, instead of placing a 92mm fan there, use it for something more useful

[jade scaffold]

yea and increasing PCB size will make them bigger

because they use the small PCBs to pass AIR THROUGH THE CARD

which is way better for cooling

[mossy gull]

Also, you can also place the upgradable VRAM on the back of the card, just throwing out ideas.
But I don't want to pay 10+K for a GPU just to have more than 24GB VRAM

[jade scaffold]

what COULD work is CXL2 functionality being given to cards

GPUs will still ship with their soldered memory but you could use a CXL.Mem module in a PCIE slot to add more all be it much slower ram that then feeds into the VRAM of the GPU

Theres an actual sollution

one thats already being used in Datacentre

[jade scaffold]

placing things on the back of the card has issues

also CAMM Modules are again Big

they like to place power delivery close to the GPU to make the core more stable too if you have to move all that back 2-3 cm to account for your thick ass cam modules thats might result in needing to clock lower

upgradable memory would be cool yea but again we'd need a new standard

[mossy gull]

But I want it on consumer shit as well, or Pro-sumer.
But currently I am limited to work either with outdated hardware, or spend 50% of my yearly salary on a GPU that has at least 32GB VRAM

[cerulean helm]

I don't even need any storage, but man thats a steal of a price.

[jade scaffold]

Yea that's a pretty damn good price

[mossy gull]

That is a good price, I personally don't like Samsung lately after their SSDs committed Harakiri because of a coding problem.

[jade scaffold]

I'm gonna make a little ds hand held

Like actual ds sized not ayoneo thiccc ds sized

[mossy gull]

Hey, the Flip DS is awesome 😅

[jade scaffold]

Instead of a bottom screen tho I think I'm gonna go for a nice touch pad rather than a touch screen

It's cool but it's too fat

I'm thinking more DSlite sized

[mossy gull]

May I recommend use an old Android phone for that?

[jade scaffold]

No

Gonna be using x86

[sonic meadow]

https://tenor.com/view/but-why-face-mask-ryan-reynolds-why-why-though-gif-16044247

[jade scaffold]

Plan is to hopefully use the V200 chips from intel... If they are as good as they seem

[mossy gull]

Where are you gonna find an X86 CPU and Motherboard combo that small?

[jade scaffold]

Mini pc motherboards are that size

They are genuinely perfect

[sonic meadow]

there are x86 credit card pcs.

heck, there was the intel usb stick pc

dont get me wrong, it was shit, but it was a thing

[jade scaffold]

The little square mini pcs get as small as 6x6cm genuinely perfect

[mossy gull]

Intel M3 stick PC🙃
I still have an Intel Compute Stick V2

[jade scaffold]

Gonna either design my own cooler or cut an existing heatsink in half

Either way 17w isn't alot to cool with a solid copper heatsink

[mossy gull]

I mean, everytime Intel comes with something it either works half or another manufacturer does it better not even a year later😅

[jade scaffold]

Not this gen

Amds architecture for mobile is now fundamentally different to Intel's where as before they were the same

Which wasn't working for intel because intel kept releasing a 3 gen old product slightly itterated on

Go intel wooo...

[mossy gull]

AMD, the cheaper CPU manufacturer that currently crushes Intel so bad in the laptop market.

[jade scaffold]

The V200s are fundamentally totally different

AMD the actually more expensive manufacturers right now

Have been since 5000

Laptops might be cheaper because they have like no market share there yet

At the minimum V200 is more power efficient at idle than what amd will release will it be more efficient underload who knows we'll find out I remain cautiously optimistic I expect amds APUs to be overall faster but I expect the V200s to win out for once in power efficiency

[mossy gull]

The 2 topdogs in the laptop space, the MSI Titan(Intel) costs 2500.- more than the Asus Scar 17(AMD).
And the Scar is faster than the Titan thanks to it's 7945HX3D.

[jade scaffold]

Smaller node actual total architecture redesign and all

[jade scaffold]

Likely because AMDs laptop market share is comically bad despite and being a genuinely really good option

[mossy gull]

Or Asus made AMD look bad with their Advantage Edition which was undervolted in its early year and in the 2nd year they overvolted the damn machine which made it overheat like no tomorrow.

[jade scaffold]

Same with their gpus their gpus are a good option but their GPU market share is none existent that 30% of GPUs being AMD GPUs in the steam survey are all integrated pretty much

I really feel it's some kinda drastic marketing failure

I'm pretty sure the 4090 out sold the entirety of Rx 7000

[mossy gull]

I don't know how Steam surveys work, but in 3 years I never got 1 on my AMD system and multiple on my damn Surface Book and already 2 on my Alienware salvage laptop which I only booted like 3 months ago.

[jade scaffold]

Anyway back to god's most cursed DS

So track pad rather than touch screen on the bottom for rts games and for camera movement in games then a dpad the normal 4 buttons then a single low profile joystick for movement corner bumpers not sure where to put triggers tbh

[mossy gull]

You could place a touch pad on the back as well like what they did in the Vita

[jade scaffold]

As for why x86 I wanna play games on it which is why I want to use the V200 it'll manage 720p easy in pretty much everything and it's idle power consumption is none existent

[jade scaffold]

Not a bad idea

[mossy gull]

You want to keep it small, that's where I would place a touch pad

[jade scaffold]

I was gonna place it where the 2nd screen would normally go

Not much else to put there anyway

My main concern is how I'm going to do the display

[mossy gull]

If you place the touch pad on the back you still can use a small (touch) display in the front, that way you have best of both worlds.

[jade scaffold]

I don't really want the extra power that comes with that

Hooking up displays as well is already painfull a track pad can be hooked up to just the usb

[mossy gull]

Displays also can just use a USB though, they don't need to be high refresh

[jade scaffold]

No not really

I'll have hdmi ports that's what's getting used

I can do hdmi to ribbon into an edp board into a display

[mossy gull]

What I seen with AyaNeo, you also can place a keyboard where the screen would go

[jade scaffold]

Unless the display supports hdmi ribbon

[mossy gull]

USB display
https://www.amazon.com/Screen-Monitor-Computer-Temperature-Display/dp/B09TTHZYSH/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?crid=2KVREM5R2WQEL&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.9JycEsAXq_PiODhWbpQDT2o1lQQirezmr4CF3GHT-lDQRJ6rdgiC10ITruvmvhCuPdOUYpWyM382oXmkzoobj5Bwg2siv2gBuKbDQqaOh1ykCnz_p7GrpmM5BjsfxSLObLS1H-HpTql3eMh7nWB9LHOC4N4gmgMweNyoYRL4Bv3xVsxQr81Gaiq3KC3Fp2jdr5m6JjBrF4uZY4rpJdOmoQ.xWfxi9JS7TzsMYBsDB8jSC9sTDwEzXmrJCNhG8d6ug0&dib_tag=se&keywords=mini+usb+display&qid=1720079595&sprefix=Mini+usb+displa%2Caps%2C209&sr=8-2

That's what I would use, mainly because a touch display can work both as touch pad and keyboard

Although been years I even used a 3.5" phone 😅

[jade scaffold]

Ew IPS

Gonna be using some cheap OLED

Mainly for the thinness of OLEDs

Let's me cram more crap behind the screen

[mossy gull]

At that size?
There's barely any difference

Or well, not from my POV

[sonic meadow]

keeb

[jade scaffold]

Yea that screen thick AF

Well relative to what it's going in

The total thickness of the lower body is literally going to be like 16mm or something the screen boddy then only another 5mm

This gonna be small

[sacred seal]

Building a PC with the footprint of the DS lite would be a remarkable feat. Even if you went without a battery, you are targeting a device with a 2.5 watt max system load. I don't know how that form factor would be achievable without a custom motherboard.

[jade scaffold]

It's already achievable with current boards

Thoes little mini pcs mother boards are 6cm x 6cm

That's just about small enough. Keep in mind too that 50% of the ds lites main body volume is literally nothing

[sacred seal]

Yeah, but those systems tend to be far far thicker then the DS was

[jade scaffold]

It's just the 2 card readers and the touch screen

[jade scaffold]

Only because of the ports and heatsinks

Said mini pcs are built for 54w cpus and to run them no sweat you can make a 8mm thick copper cooler that can do 15w with a fan easy

[sacred seal]

Yeah, kinda need those heat sinks. Actively cooling would require one of those fancy vibrating blowers or like 1/4th the total volume of the PC

Not to mention ventalation if you want to hold this thing while using it

[jade scaffold]

Ventilation isn't a concern it's 15 w the air output isn't going to burn you touching the heatsink directly would

[sacred seal]

I mean covering the vents with your fingers and choking it

Not enough space to do top to bottom airflow

[jade scaffold]

Not really laptop fans produce very high pressure and covering an entire centrifugal fan is unlikely

[sacred seal]

The problem is the fan has to be mounted next to the cooler.

Where does it exaust?

Out the side, or out the back right next to the intake

Which also means you have to have your PCB mounted to the screen side of the device

[jade scaffold]

The intake would be underneath

Output would be out back is probs the best place

[sacred seal]

You want to run a blower in reverse?

[jade scaffold]

Blowers dont suck In the sides what

They suck in air above and below them

Then blow it outwards

[sacred seal]

Yes, excatly. How are you going to get air from the bottom of the device into the top of a blower?

[jade scaffold]

That way

[sacred seal]

Ah, I think we may be talking orentation differently

[jade scaffold]

How the fuck would I fit a fan any other orientation

[sacred seal]

That is what I was trying to figure out

Where you are thinking

Am I correct?

[jade scaffold]

Yes

[sacred seal]

Ok, that explains that

[jade scaffold]

This cooler for the pi is rated for 12w I only need 5w more than that a solid copper heatsink with proper fins and flow direction should get me that

Might be a lil noisy

[sacred seal]

It also looks to be about 2 usb ports thick, which is twice what you are able to fit

[jade scaffold]

It's 1 usb port thick

The pis CPU is raised quite a bit but thickness wise the fan should fit its just a matter of getting a heatsink

[sacred seal]

I would need a different angle, but that heat sink setup looks to be about in line with those ports

[jade scaffold]

Ideally id like to mount the heatsink right ontop of the chip

But I could just extend the cooler in a sort of L so that it instead fits aligned centrally with the PCB

Also again the raspberry pi cooler not exactly a bastion of decent cooler design

You could make that fin array WAAAY denser and then make it out of copper

Slightly taller than a usb port

[sacred seal]

Those usb ports are double stacked

[jade scaffold]

Yes

And it's shorter than the 2 ports by a long shot

[sacred seal]

Ah, you mean the fan by itself

Not the cooling assembly

[jade scaffold]

Yea

Plan is to probably have my own heatsink made

Which because it's so simple and small no vapor chamber or anything it should be cheap to do

[sacred seal]

Well relitively cheap

CNC machine time is not cheap generally speaking

[jade scaffold]

I'm not sure cnc would be the best way to go about making one

What's the technique called where a machine basically colds really thinn bits of metal up from a metal plate

[sacred seal]

You want actual high density fins with a skiver? (Or whatever they are called?)

[jade scaffold]

Skiving?

Yea not just thick fins

[sacred seal]

I have no idea where you would even find something like that.

Probably easier to find a existing heatsink and take a saw to it

[jade scaffold]

Metal shops would probs make it to a specification

Probably

[sacred seal]

Question is price

How many shops have a skiever?

Is there even a use for a skiver outside of heatsinks?

[sonic meadow]

you could also rotate the fin stack 90 degrees and it would probably work way better

[jade scaffold]

Unsure but judging by little skived heatsinks from the internet honestly

They're really cheap that might just be volume tho

[sacred seal]

Yeah, having the fins alligned in the right direction would probably help a lot

[sonic meadow]

skiving is a process that uses a blade to "skive", or cut and lift a thin sheet of metal off the base heatsink stock

[sacred seal]

Yeah, its a similar process to extrusion. Cheap to do in bulk, but not custom

[jade scaffold]

Yea I know what it is I was questioning if that was the right word

[sonic meadow]

eh, its not much like extrusion. but sure

[sacred seal]

In the sense that the machine can make a really bieng piece from a single piece of stock

[jade scaffold]

According to my heatsinks it's practically the cheapest way to build a heatsink because it requires next to no tooling and is pretty much entirely automated

There's an extra step that can be done that folds the top of the fins over eachother to create a heatsink box

That's a bit more expensive apparently

[sacred seal]

And for your use case probably detrimental

[jade scaffold]

It's an 8000rpm centrifugal fan it could push air through practically anything the top of the eatsink is already gonna be sealed off anyway unless I want the entire top of the heatsink exposed underside not sure if that or the extra little bit of surface area would help more

[sacred seal]

But also remember that is a 15 watt cpu, you still need to cool the ram (guessing at least 8gb)

That is going to add a few extra watts

Storage should probably be fine, but I have no clue where you plan to put it.

If you got a heat sink on top of the board

I guess there are some boards that do bottom mounts?

[jade scaffold]

The ram is on chip

2w for ram

[sacred seal]

Ah, well that solves a lot of problems

[jade scaffold]

That's why I said I needed 5w more than the pis 12

[sacred seal]

When did intel start doing that? Just with these chips?

[jade scaffold]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/785332107168972830/1258341785546133575/image0.jpg?ex=6687b19c&is=6686601c&hm=8ddf1b029f09604bffb5fa4c3f82046bcf8c355d5ae98186368e2d7412afb5d9&

[sacred seal]

I think even thier mutant APU with AMD gpu had ram on the board

[jade scaffold]

New lunar lake that's upcoming they put ram on the chip to boost AI and you performance and to cut the ram power used into like 1/4th

[sacred seal]

Presuming you are capped out at 8gb though

[jade scaffold]

32gb

Minimum is 16

[sacred seal]

How much are these chips going to retail for?

That sounds like it would be absurdly expensive