With one hour of learning a day, how long would it take to reach a fluency level of German?

[austere jolt]

I have a basic proficiency level

[left shore]

years

[austere jolt]

what level of german does school really teach you, and how long would it ACTUALLY take to become fluent?

[austere jolt]

brother its either this or japanese now yall making me sway the other way

[left shore]

If it makes you feel any better, Japanese would take much longer

[austere jolt]

im getting mixed responses

[left shore]

mixed responses?

[austere jolt]

german is obviously easier to learn compared to japanese for native english speakers

but for japanese N3 level it would take 2-3 years of learning whereas German would take 4?

even though its supposed to be easier

[left shore]

Japanese N3 level is a much lower hurdle

the Japanese test only tests reading and listening, as I recall

and even the highest level of their test is only like B2 or something

you asked about "fluency"

which I would consider as C1 level

if not higher

[austere jolt]

what would be the N3 level of japanese for german

[left shore]

one sec

[austere jolt]

intermediate level

[left shore]

https://jlct.jp/en/jlct/about/comparison/

B1 level

That website says the top level is C1, but I've heard others say it's really more like a high B2

[austere jolt]

how long would it take to reach B1 level with 1-2 hours a day?

[left shore]

starting from where?

for German?

[austere jolt]

starting from around A2

[austere jolt]

yes

[left shore]

From A2 to B1, with 1-2 hours a day? Not that long. Depending on how effective your studying is, 3-9 months

[austere jolt]

so what makes it such a huge jump from B1 to B2 that takes it from 9 months to years?

[left shore]

btw, your role says you are currently at least B1 level

[left shore]

Every single level takes as much time as all previous levels combined. the "step" in-between each level becomes increasingly large each time

B1 = the time it took to go from 0 to A2

B2 = the time it took to go from 0 to B1

C1 = the time it took to go from 0 to B2

[austere jolt]

oh ok

so the difference in between them is just a few months or years for the C levels

[left shore]

for reference, at C1 level, you should be able to watch the news, read news articles, and then discuss that intelligently

"What's your opinion on immigration restrictions proposed by the CDU party?"

or whatever

[austere jolt]

the difference between each level is just based on vocab right?

[left shore]

no

[austere jolt]

theres more grammar?

[left shore]

you learn grammar at each step, up through C1

and also you work on your speaking ability, your listening comprehension, your writing ability

[austere jolt]

so the grammar taught in secondary school (eg word order) only scratched the surface?

i thought you built your german based on that simple grammar?

[left shore]

I don't know what all was taught in your school

or what levels your courses corresponded with

I'm just saying there is new grammar up through C1 level

[austere jolt]

simple word order, past/present/future tenses and gender, clauses, etc

the stuff u usually build on

[left shore]

Do you know about Infinitivsätze?

Ich habe ihm geholfen, ohne viel darüber nachdenken zu müssen.

Do you know about subjective meaning of modal verbs?

Er muss einen Unfall gehabt haben, denn er ist nicht bei der Arbeit heute.

[austere jolt]

but would that change everything ive learnt beforehand? like adding a habe for the past tense

[austere jolt]

as in the word "must"

could, should, would?

[left shore]

Do you know about Ersatzinfinitive/double infinitive?

Ich weiß, dass ich das hätte machen sollen, aber ich wollte Videospiele spielen.

[austere jolt]

yes we were taught all that

[left shore]

the word "must", but here it expresses a level of certainty about the truth of the statement

[left shore]

well, then, maybe you do have most of the grammar

[austere jolt]

I just wanna know if theres a clear distinct difference between beginner grammar and grammar that only natives would usually spot

if theres a clear line

[left shore]

no

[austere jolt]

because in English for example once you learn the word order you can use it from beginner stages to total fluency

[left shore]

but sentences do get trickier when reading things that are in a more elevated register, like scientific articles

[left shore]

With German, there are steps to that

First you learn the order of main clauses, then you learn the order of dependent clauses, then you learn about moving things around such that the subject isn't in position 1

I assume you know all that already

you learn about Infinitivsätze, which you said you already knew

then Partizpialsätze and Ersatzinfinitiv stuff

[austere jolt]

so basically, in the C1 stages, will you still add a "habe" to your past tenses and add an "en" to your future tenses?

just the simple stuff

[left shore]

yes

well

not all verbs require "habe" for Perfekt

Ich bin spazieren gegangen

some verbs use "sein" for Perfekt

[austere jolt]

thats a relief i thought C1 completely overrides everything I've learnt

[austere jolt]

bin is only used when youre travelling or getting from one place to another right?

[left shore]

Do you know about Partizipialsätze? Stuff like

Der vor mir fliehende Mann wollte meine Hilfe nicht.

[left shore]

not necessarily

Heute ist ein Unfall passiert.

Today, an accident occurred.

No movement there

[austere jolt]

no this is A-Level grade content I think

I only finished GCSES with a 7 which is like a low A/ high B

[left shore]

I know nothing about the British system. Are you saying you might have covered that, if you had done a higher level course?

[austere jolt]

yes, I did a higher course BUT it only consisted of 2 hours of classroom study every week, but for 5 years

i doubt any 11 year old during the early years of school would have actually learnt anything though

let me show you an example of what papers we do so that you can judge for yourself

[left shore]

anyway, no, the basic grammar will not change, exactly, but you do learn incrementally about ways of forming more advanced sentences, which you will then see if you, for example, read newspaper articles or read wikipedia articles or scientific articles.

that advanced grammar is then necessary for high-level, complex sentences

[austere jolt]

thank you this pretty much summed up what i asked 😅

https://www.savemyexams.com/gcse/german/aqa/past-papers/

we do 4 exams reading writing listening and speaking all for one subject

on top of our other 10

[left shore]

That's the final exam, like the last one at the end of school?

[austere jolt]

the last one at the end of secondary school, yes, unless you want to continueit for Alevels for another two years (before uni)

[left shore]

Seems like a high B1/maybe low B2 level

definitely not C1

definitely not high B2

[austere jolt]

so basically intermediate?

[left shore]

https://www.reddit.com/r/German/comments/cgtq8n/what_cefr_level_is_a_good_gcse_german_grade_ish/

From my experience in the UK, it's highly dependent on what school you are from.

I know people who claim to have an A in A-level German and can barely speak a sentence. Equally I know people who had only just finished GCSE German who where probably B2.

[left shore]

yeah

that's not what I personally would consider fluent

like I said, I would consider C1 the threshold for fluency

[austere jolt]

but its enough to start a few sentences when i travel to germany

anyways, thanks for the help have a good day

I didnt pick german for A levels but my previous german teacher decided to hold weekly classes for those who wanted to join to learn some business phrases or just to keep learning it

so I guess Im grateful for that

[astral yacht]

10 years