#study mathematics in germany

80 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

open fox
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Hello, I want to study mathematics in Germany. But when I look at the data, it is one of the departments that produces the least number of graduates. I knew it was very difficult, but I didn't know it was this hard. I want to study mathematics and work in the software field, but I also want to learn mathematics in depth. But the fact that mathematics produces so few graduates makes me wonder whether I should take this risk. I can't quite decide whether I should focus on mathematics and informatics-type departments or study mathematics. I would be glad if you can help.

quartz cedar
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If you want to work as a developer, it doesn't make sense to go for a math degree, but to go for a CS degree. You can always take math courses you like at the uni for extra credits or even just for fun.

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Math is hard in general and not for everyone, unless you specifically have the knack for it, or if you want to study applied math.

open fox
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It's hard to explain the situation I'm in now. I chose the mathematics department in my own country and will study at one of the equivalent universities in Germany. Since I haven't researched it thoroughly, I don't know all the departments, but I can also choose departments such as mathematics and informatics, mathematics and programming.

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Are you saying that it would be better for me to focus on such departments?

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And in what fields can we work after graduating from the Department of Mathematics?

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@quartz cedar

quartz cedar
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Please don't specifically ping me, especially at 12 am in the night. 🙂

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Like I said, you can always take math courses on the side at a German university, but if you want to work in IT, you should go for a CS degree.

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Within your CS degree, you can choose to specialise in areas like ML/AI for your thesis, that specifically use both.

open fox
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i am so sorry I didn't realize it was late :/

quartz cedar
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So unless you want to be in academia and do research in math, it's best to just learn it on the side as a passion project.

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It's not to say that a math degree is completely useless IRL; lots of jobs revolve around some strong knowledge of it, but again, if you want to work IT, its usefulness is a lot less pronounced in comparison to your ability to code.

quartz cedar
open fox
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Thank you very much for answering my questions. It was very useful to me. I apologize again for your inconvenience during this period. I wish you a good night.

rough panther
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in Goethe uni frankfurt for eg, the fail rate is 90% for first year

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You really shouldn't do it, unless you really have an interest and furthermore a knack for it

drowsy prairie
# open fox Hello, I want to study mathematics in Germany. But when I look at the data, it i...

If you study and work at it, I 100% believe you could pass. Tons of students start degrees with no idea of what they're getting into, and either don't like it (drop out) or don't realise that you actually have to do work to pass (drop out). This happens in informatics, too, though maybe to a lesser extent than with pure math? Idk the actual statistics.

Most math programs have some overlap with informatics, and you'll definitely have the opportunity to take some info topics.

In the end, some of the best computer scientists of all time come out of math 🤷 so I personally see it as a benefit. And if you fail a semester/don't like it, you can switch to informatics or something totally different. Just...don't not do something because you're afraid of failing.

frigid yarrow
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If you want to know anything specific about math courses, maybe I can somewhat help. I did a BSc in pure maths, and later did applied BSc and MSc degrees in CS.

It's true that it's hard stuff with a high level of workload, but it's also true that a large number of people in Germany begin to study without having any idea of what that might entail. So you have a lot of people who don't finish their studies in almost all relatively well-known areas of the scientific and engineering fields.

open fox
open fox
rough panther
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Mathematics is diverse, and what math you learn in Math degree doesn't translate to a good ability of math in the CS degree

open fox
open fox
open fox
rough panther
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unless you go to very certain schools

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I mean what math degree entails very much depends on which you school you go too

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as far as I know, the application of mathematics in computer science is through that of discrete mathematics while a mathematics degree is typically focused on linear algebra and analysis

open fox
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I wonder if it would be possible to advance both together?

frigid yarrow
quartz cedar
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Most CS stuff I know of mostly uses discrete math, basic graph theory, and basic stats. The most math heavy CS field is AI/ML research, but even there, you can get by with a bachelor's level of math knowledge unless you specifically are looking at foundational research.

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Think of it like this: you say you want to get into CS after you graduate after doing a math degree. If you did a math degree and focused more on it than CS, how would you have the skills to work in CS? You need to know several different programming languages and tools, best practices, theoretical CS, basic algorithms, dynamic programming, etc. Some components of this require math, yes, but that isn't the same as the math you'd learn if you did a pure math degree. If you did a pure math degree instead, wouldn't your CS skills be underdeveloped?

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Pure math comprises things like algebra, analysis, stochastics, differential equations, algebraic geometry, etc. A majority of these have nothing to do with CS. I'm not discouraging you from learning these if you're interested, but could you not take these as extra credit courses rather than your primary focus? If you want to work in CS, your primary focus should be CS courses.

frigid yarrow
frigid yarrow
# quartz cedar Pure math comprises things like algebra, analysis, stochastics, differential equ...

Well, you can always incorporate those concepts, if you want to do work in certain areas of CS. For example, stochastics and statistics are used in the (traditional) construction of search tools, higher algebra/algebraic geometry knowledge can be utilized for cryptography; analysis, numerical analysis and (partial) differential equations are the base of physics engines, linear algebra is the base for (among a ton of other areas) 3D graphics; differential geometry is the base for GPS; the list goes on.
But, sure, if you just want to do websites, you'll probably won't need any of these.

quartz cedar
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I've seen time and time again, people from math backgrounds struggling to implement well-written code simply because they lack the experience for it. In an industrial setting, they wouldn't be able to clear tech rounds against peers without this experience.

drowsy prairie
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a BSc in informatics is not really about coding either, though.

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a lot of graduates who are bad at writing good code

frigid yarrow
rough panther
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I amslo wanting to pursue math in germany

quartz cedar
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I can't imagine wanting to study deep theoretical math and stopping at a B.Sc.

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Unless it's not for you.

rough panther
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coz

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that is the place I saw which has math course closest to a cs one

quartz cedar
quartz cedar
frigid yarrow
frigid yarrow
# rough panther I am 99% sure you went to karlsruhe

Nope, Uni Münster for pure Maths BSc. At the time I was there, you could pick your electives in a way that you wouldn't have to know or write a single line of code (that's not the case anymore, I think). I did start from scratch with BSc CS in Krefeld at Hochschule Niederrhein.

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And then did a MSc CS there as well.

rough panther
rough panther
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but guys guys actually if you go deep enough CS= math

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coz you can explain every model of computation in terms of category theory

frigid yarrow
quartz cedar
rough panther
frigid yarrow
quartz cedar
rough panther
rough panther
rough panther
quartz cedar
rough panther
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there is actualyl a book which goes over a theoritical foundation of computation models and the essence of computer science from prespective of category theory

frigid yarrow
# rough panther I meant it really genuienly

Me too. Being good at maths helps a ton with CS, but it doesn't replace CS. There's enough things maths doesn't consider very interesting, but CS does. Same way other way round.

quartz cedar
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I completely agree ^^ Everything has its place.

open fox
# quartz cedar Why would you want to do that though? If you know that you want to work in CS, w...

I will study in Germany with school equivalence. I chose mathematics instead of CS in my country because I could study in better schools. Whichever department I choose for school equivalency, I can solve it by studying that department in Germany. Or I have to study a department that contains 40% of the same courses. I will be able to study mathematics and informatics. As far as I know, I cannot read CS directly. If it is possible to change my department after going to Germany, of course I would like to change and study CS. So it seems like I have a bit of an obligation.

quartz cedar
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I'm a little confused by what you mean. It's not quite clear to me what you mean by school equivalency or that you can't read CS directly.

open fox
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In our country, university system works a bit complicated.

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So I cant directly study CS.

open fox