#I am stuck in a 3-wg contract (gemeinsam vertrag)

211 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

dark ibex
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Disclaimer: I'm not a legal expert.

How is the WG set up in legal terms? Is there one contract holder that subcontracts, or is there a shared contract of all the tenants with the landlord, or what is it like?

vestal crypt
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shared contract

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all hauptmieters

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the only way to end the contract is if my roommates sign, and they will not sign since they are very interested in staying in the apartment

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and since they are also open to the possibility of a nachmieter, i dont think i will be able to win a lawsuit for consent in this case, but i dont know

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how long should i look for someone else to take my place?

dark ibex
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Is there a stipulation in there on how the contract could be amended or terminated? Is the way you wrote the only clause related to that?

vestal crypt
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I am paying 2 rents now, and its getting more difficult over tie

vestal crypt
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i mean

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only the "ordentliche kündigung

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where we all three have to sign

dark ibex
vestal crypt
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with duration of 2 years (original contract is more than 10 years old)

vestal crypt
dark ibex
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I don't think that is the "normal" way, how you seem to portray that.

vestal crypt
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hmm

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I only remember the part of "ordentliche kündigung" basically

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one second

dark ibex
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Never mind, apparently how you portrayed it is a regular, if not the regular option...
I'm not sure what to think about that...

vestal crypt
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yes basically im fucking stuck

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my life is ruined

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dont ever sign a fucking wg contract

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i fucking hate myself

dark ibex
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By the way, how is it that you don't find a Nachmieter? There's a housing shortage in many parts of Germany. Is the rent for your apartment that high?

vestal crypt
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its very low

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is just that there is a clause in there

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where the contract change is to be charged at 300 euros

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which is probably invalid, but my roommates dont want me to contest that

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because if i do, there is a high chance that the landlord will stop accepting nachmieters

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and then i will really be stuck forever

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its not a student wg btw

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so the landlord is not entitled to changes of people

dark ibex
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Can't you take that money out of your share of the Kaution? And I can't see why you'd still not find a Nachmieter.

vestal crypt
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i mean i have offered that to plenty of people

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but they all refuse to sign such a contract

dark ibex
vestal crypt
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i mean

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i already did

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lesson learned

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now, i need help getting out of here

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its not even that this people are holding me hostage

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its the way the contract works more than anything

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if they sign the contract termination, then they will have to move out too

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the landlord doesnt necesarilly have to sign another contract with them

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plus, the original contract is extremely old, which means its very cheap

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which is an extremely good reason to not want to risk it

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since they are actually relatively helpful, i doubt i can win the lawsuit

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since the possibility of me coming out is there, its just that it has not happened

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...which is the finding of the nachmieter

dark ibex
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Just as a thought... and this is just a thought, you should absolutely ask an expert about this. Might there be a way to establish a situation where the landlord would be incentivised to terminate the contract?

vestal crypt
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the landlord probably placed that clause in there to have an excuse to terminate the contract, but upon ourselfs

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in order to increase rent

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I know i have to talk to an expert, but im sure im fucked either way

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i hate my life

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i want to kill myself

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i ruined my life financially to me and my girlfriend

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fuck me

dark ibex
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I mean, hypothetically, if you can't cancel the contract, can you stop paying rent or do some other stuff that puts pressure on the landlord? Or bribe him to terminate, or anything? Or to put pressure onto the other tenants? I know it's not nice, but from what I can see, they're not nice about it either. And if they say you're breaking the contract, you might be made to pay (which you would have to do regardless) plus some fine, but if from the start you make it clear enough that you're trouble and just want out, wouldn't they have to accept that eventually?

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Again - not a legal expert, and you should definitely not try that without consultation. If done wrong, this might go horribly wrong.

vestal crypt
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-i only pay part of the rent. My roomates would just pay my part and sue me as soon as the amount owned is big enough

-i could try to bribe, but then my life would actually be over with a criminal charge xd

-the real only pressure i can put is threaten to sue

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the problem is that if i sue, and i lose, then i will have to keep on fucking paying, plus the lawsuit costs

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until the rest of the mietvertrag (probably more than 5 or 10 years)

untold kettle
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I'd suggest to get a lawyer too. They will definitely listen to your problem and make a first "forecast" on how it might turn out and which steps they'd take. Anwalt für Mietrecht is the right person to talk to

vestal crypt
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or even more

vestal crypt
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i have thought of just going ahead and doing something about the 300 euro clause

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but idk man

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fuck

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i havent slept for 2 weeks straight

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my blood pressure is extremely high

untold kettle
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What about your Vermieter, he could sign some papers on agreeing to just throw you out of the contract and keep the others?

vestal crypt
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i lost 3 kilos

untold kettle
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He might accept that option if they're financially stable on their own

vestal crypt
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and they wont sign that

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i have tried that option too

untold kettle
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I don't think they do?

vestal crypt
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but its of no use

vestal crypt
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legally

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if they dont agree, they dont have to sign shit

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and im back to square 1

untold kettle
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I'll read Into the laws in a bit and get back

vestal crypt
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you can look up §723 Kündigung durch Gesellshacfter

vestal crypt
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and thats what i fucking fear

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people there say that it is very likely he would win a lawsuit of that type

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but idk if the people that answered there are lawyers or not

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maybe i should just go to a lawyer

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i just wanted to vent a little bit

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im sorry guys

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and if someone here reading this is thinking of moving into a wg in the future,

PLEASE

inform yourself of how the contract works

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The most common contract, the joint lease where everyone is a "hauptmieter", or at least mieters, can only be terminated by everyone

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if you run into problems with looking for a replacement to you, you will be in the same trouble as me

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so if you can afford it, PLEASE just get a fucking untermietvertrag, or rent alone

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and if you choose otherwise, only do it in very big cities, where chances are high

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to find your replacement

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goddammit i feel a prisoner to this city

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i will not be able to move to my country until this is resolved

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ok, ill stop ranting. thanks for listening

untold kettle
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Yeah buddy it do be looking bad. Mieterschutzverbund could also help (they're like before lawyers, just giving advice like we are rn but they're experienced a lot). I'm not experienced in rental stuff, but Id also say it's very likely you'd get out of the contract with a lawyer. As you mentioned, there is no reason why anyone would force you to stay in this flat

vestal crypt
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i mean, yeah thats the only way out i guess

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if any

untold kettle
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I would go on like mentioned in the post you sent. Ask your roommates again to agree getting out of the contract or at least changing it to only their name, ask the Vermieter, and threaten all of them with an Anwalt

vestal crypt
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i mean

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i can only afford so much anwalt xd

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i have rechtschutz, but it only covers so much

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and if i get in legal trouble twice in 1 year, ill get kicked out

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if i am going to carry on with a strategy, whether it is with the vermieter and the clause, or my roomates, i have to go all the way

untold kettle
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Yeah you'll definitely get out of there one way or another. This is not legal trouble caused by you, AGAINST you, I don't think it would count bad for visa or anything

vestal crypt
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the visa would only become a problem if i owe money and dont pay

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even if there is a lawsuit and i lose

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thats a good thing i guess, that its primarily a financial problem

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and nothing criminal going on

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....mostly

untold kettle
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Mieterschutzverbund can advise you regarding financial support too.

vestal crypt
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ill defenetily look into it

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it sucks that i have to pay for it, but its not an "all the way strategy" price yet i guess

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yeah actually i feel better now

untold kettle
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You'll get back most of the money if you win

vestal crypt
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its been emotionally tolling for 2 weeks

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and i needed to rant

untold kettle
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Esp with an insurance, idk what insurance you have but it might cover all of it

vestal crypt
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and i did not wanted to rant with my girlfriend only, it would start to affect her too mentally and i just dont want that

vestal crypt
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they only cover you against very specific cases

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idk if this will cover it

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but i can only hope

untold kettle
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If you need to talk about anything about the flat, how bad whatever it is, is, get semi good advice let me know I'll listen anytime

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If you send me the papers of your insurance I could check

vestal crypt
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thank you so much!

vestal crypt
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just one more thing

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will life go on after this?

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i feel fucking stuck. i should probably talk to a therapist

untold kettle
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I mean idk your current living situation but I know how bad it can be. I was stuck in a similar situation two years ago, but with additional d0mestic vi0lenc3 so I managed to get out rather 'fast', but I was also massively harmed and depressed in that time. It took so much energy to get out and fight for my right but it was worth it, looking back it's just another 'challenge' life gave me and I'm proud I got through it, and I feel stronger and smarter (as you already said you're smarter now too)

vestal crypt
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thats so much worse than my current situation

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are you ok now? like, physically too?

untold kettle
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I won't call anyone's situation worse or better, nor does it matter. If you feel bad with the current situation you should, and you have the right to, do something about it to get into a better place regardless of the 'level of badness'

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But yeah I'm happily living far away now and got justice too

vestal crypt
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im so happy for you that you managed!

untold kettle
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So will you, and we'll be cheering too 😎

ivory void
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@vestal crypt I'm sure it has occurred to you you could just find an Untermieter? They wouldn't have to sign the contract in your stead, you'd keep the contract, it would just be somebody else living in your room/s and either paying your share of the rent directly to your flatmates, or to you and you'd keep paying the landlord.

vestal crypt
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://

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i thought about that too

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but das kommt leider nicht in fragen

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its a situation where i literally cant win

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at least if my roommates were actually against having a nachmieter or something, i could maybe have a chance in a lawsuit

ivory void
vestal crypt
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could you please explain more about the situation?

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you did this exact lawsuit?

ivory void
vestal crypt
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okay i understand. but could you at least tell me if you went over this exact lawsuit?

ivory void
vestal crypt
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i mean sure

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i understand it might take a year

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but id rather pay a year more and get it over with

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than pay for 2, 3, 10 years or who knows how many more

ivory void
vestal crypt
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oh cmon

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its literally better then to pay for the rest of my life?

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i am literally cornered

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am i seriously fucked for life?

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really?

ivory void
vestal crypt
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and pay 300 fucking euros to change the contract?

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until now nobody wants to sign this fucking paper

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dont tell me this is the best option please

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my heart rate is going to kill me

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i am fucking doomed

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might as well kill myself

ivory void
vestal crypt
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i have offered that

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i have offered even more money

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its just not coming

ivory void
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I take it you've advertised it on all the relevant internet sites, blackboard at uni - and have you also tried real estate agents?

vestal crypt
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would you say your lawsuit ruined your life?

vestal crypt
ivory void
vestal crypt
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did you lost?

ivory void
vestal crypt
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a settlement is when nobody lost right?

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in any case

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holy shit

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then i am doomed

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how bullshit is life

late cipher
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Hmmm I'm being very petty with this suggestion but why not annoy your current roommates until they sign you off the contract?
Make sure that if you have a room it continues to not be used by them. In the very least if you are paying rent you should still have a room. If you don't have a dwelling within the apartment maybe that's the only kinda lawsuit you could possibly do? Germany is definitely different than USA :c All I had to do was pay a cancel fee for breaking the lease. Very sorry for your situation and hope they reconsider signing you off.

night mesa
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hä?was i've yet to rent any sort of place anywhere but is it a regular occurence to get your life ruined in germany because of rental contracts?

untold kettle
# night mesa hä?<:was:937507177290162276> i've yet to rent any sort of place anywhere but is...

Depends on the contract type tbf. Imagine you and me buy a house together, we live there all cool, then I cheat on you and randomly decide my new boyfriend will live in our house with us too. You just sleep in the guest room, I don't really care. And then you think "aight I want to sell the house and go back to where I'm from, back to my mom in... Zimbabwe". We signed the contract together, you can't just go back to the agency and give the house back lmao it's also mine. A lot of lawsuits happen between couples where they'll end up having to pay compensations to the other person and whatnot, but it sometimes takes years or actually drives people into homelessness. And unmarried couples / other forms of living together are seen kinda the same, acting as one lawful 'unit'

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Life do be like that sometimes, sorreeey

night mesa
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so there's a contract type that treats people as if they were married but they are complete random strangers?

untold kettle
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It brings some advantages too, if everyone is the proper owner / renter of a place, but more common with WG is just having the flat registered and signed on one person and the others just have a contract with this one person

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Not necessarily married, they're a 'lawful unit', they all act in the name of one unit named 'renter'

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Married people often also have this unit for contracts. Better compare it with a company

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They all act in the name of one company, and if 2/3 vote for yes it's a yes. Democracy, yay
*but on heavy changes like throwing someone out of the contract sometimes they need 100%

night mesa
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yeah just htat none of the 3 own the apartment or the guy's not trying to sell it

untold kettle
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Take the story where j was cheating on you and replace "we bought the house" with "we rent the house"

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Same situation

untold kettle
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Or invite some friends and have parties every night 🎉

vestal crypt
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I want to kill myself

untold kettle
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Try to make the best out of the situation, stay busy and alive bud

dusk sinew
summer elm
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This is so depressing peepocry

warm oracle
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are you by chance a member of a mieterverein? if not you should look into this

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they can give you not only advice but legal representation if you need it. this kind of stuff rarely goes to court i think and is probably settle-able with a nastygram from a lawyer with a nice letter header