As a Non-EU Citizen, am I able to apply for an integration course?

[strange pewter]

Currently I live in Palestine, with a Jordanian Passport. I've wanted to study in germany and have been researching it, so far I've found that my best bet is studying German IN Germany, I've seen integration courses that seem to fit what I want, is it better if I apply for an integration course or just language courses? Finances is a big part of this as I don't really have too much cash on hand so public colleges or free courses are better. I had more questions which I will compile into a list after this

Questions:
as a Non-EU Citizen, will I be able to apply for an integration course if i do NOT have a residence permit in Germany?

if not, what are the steps I need to take in order to get this permit, should I apply for a student visa or apply for the integration course, get a residence permit, then just go for it? I'm really lost and would love some help!

[hard prairie]

i acc called some integration kurse centers in the city i live in in germany most said u need to be in germany and theres a document u need DAMP or smthn like that

[strange pewter]

what is a DAMP?

[hard prairie]

one sec lemme grab the full name

[strange pewter]

I don't mean to attend in general, I know I can attend as a non EU citizen

but how would I go about actually applying and going to germany to actually attend

am I able to go to Germany for the sole purpose of applying and attending the Integration course? Is that enough to get a VISA?

[hard prairie]

Bundesamt für Migration und Flüchtlinge(DAMF)

[hard prairie]

u need to be working on a working visa for integration course

[strange pewter]

so, as an international student I cannot get an integration course?

[hard prairie]

integration course isnt for students

[strange pewter]

I see, so my best bet is just finding language courses?

finding a public university offering german language courses in english has been pretty tough

[hard prairie]

yep at language schools in germany that are mostly geared towards students

[strange pewter]

since finances are an issue

[hard prairie]

what do u want to major in?

[strange pewter]

Computer Science most likely

[hard prairie]

so u want to do it in english?

[strange pewter]

if possible

but I've looked for public universities that offer Bachelor's Computer Science in English

been almost impossible to find

[hard prairie]

id recommend doing german bc you would have to learn the language sooner or later

[strange pewter]

so I'm trying to get German language courses

[strange pewter]

if I found english courses I'd take them and learn german while staying there

otherwise I'd love to learn german while in germany and take time to adjust & find work

[hard prairie]

for that there are schools in each city that help with everything from start to finish, visa/uni application/language

its how i got here

[strange pewter]

are they specific or how can I find one?

like near berlin

[strange pewter]

well done man

[hard prairie]

hmm if it was in nrw i could help

[strange pewter]

nrw?

oh i see

but you mention in each city

[hard prairie]

Nordrhein-Westphalen

[strange pewter]

so there are such languages in berlin too?

[strange pewter]

to be honest that'd work better for me

[hard prairie]

ofc u can search on google or maps

[strange pewter]

I've been searching alot

I can't find anything

[strange pewter]

I was considering Aachen

[hard prairie]

im going there for uni, i did language in bonn tho but ik a school i was asking the other day

one sec lemme see the name

[strange pewter]

alright

[hard prairie]

yep evo language school https://www.deutschkurse-in-deutschland.de/deutschkurse/deutschkurse-in-aachen/

they have other branches all around germany

[strange pewter]

what about pricing?

[hard prairie]

lemme see

[strange pewter]

i'll check

prices seem kind of steep

460 euros for 5 weeks

for A1

[hard prairie]

https://evolanguage-shop.de/collections/live-german-courses/products/50-off-only-today-in-school-online-courses they have an offer going on

[strange pewter]

so 855 euro for all I need

[hard prairie]

A1 till C1 right?

[strange pewter]

A1 till B1

[hard prairie]

oh then yea

[strange pewter]

• 90 euro course material

that's just over 930 euros

I still need to make sure I can afford that

[hard prairie]

youll do online right?

[strange pewter]

I'd rather in person

It's difficult for me to focus online

[hard prairie]

theres this https://evolanguage-shop.de/collections/live-german-courses/products/2-months-german-course-valid-for-visa-offer?variant=43663389688072

for visa

[strange pewter]

that's so expensive 😭

[hard prairie]

mhm its A1-C1 tho with visa help

[strange pewter]

if I worked the full time I'm permitted to work, would it cover that with living costs?

[strange pewter]

I don't really need C1

I can settle at B1

[hard prairie]

as a student you need about 12.000 a year in your blocked account i think that was at my time it mightve got higher now due to inflation

[strange pewter]

yeah 12,000 euros

and I do NOT want to blow through that

[hard prairie]

mhm depends on what the uni wants i needed C1

[strange pewter]

all sources I've seen needed B1 at most

[hard prairie]

atm im living off with 400 euros plus 530 rent

400 u can live comfortably

[strange pewter]

400 euros a month??

[hard prairie]

including deutschlandticket

so 49 inclusive

[strange pewter]

everything I see says 800-900 euro cost of living

[strange pewter]

so that's 930 euros per month

[hard prairie]

yep but in my blocked acc which ill open when i turn 18 is 1038 per month

so the legal requirment is more that enough

[strange pewter]

yeaa i'll have to decrease costs as much as possible

[hard prairie]

aachen is pretty cheap ive been to it once will go again this weeknd

[strange pewter]

I can meet the legal requirements but

I don't want to blow through the money

I'd rather finish my studies with more money in my account than I started with

I'm allowed to work only 20 hours a week right?

or am I allowed to work more if I pay the contributions

[hard prairie]

are ur parents gonna finance u or ur gonna finance urself?

[strange pewter]

I think my parents will help me with the legal requirements

i've had a closed bank account since i was 2

so maybe i have enough

[hard prairie]

i think it depends on the insurance for me it is bc im under 18

[strange pewter]

but after that, there's no telling

i'll have to finance myself heavily

it's not exactly easy keeping up with 11k euros per year

[strange pewter]

I'll turn 18 before I travel so hopefully it works

[hard prairie]

ur still too young to be able to cover it all

[strange pewter]

not all of it

[hard prairie]

atleast turn 20

[strange pewter]

but just enough to not blow through the entire costs

[hard prairie]

u said heavily

[strange pewter]

minimum wage is 9.82 an hour

[hard prairie]

yea but ull have studies

[strange pewter]

so that's 196 euros a month

wait no

a week

[hard prairie]

i still dk how your going to uni with B1 tho which uni do u want to go to?

[strange pewter]

around 785 euros a month

[hard prairie]

everywhere i searched said they need C1 Hochschule

[strange pewter]

most universities i've checked out had B1

[hard prairie]

maybe diff course

[strange pewter]

20 hours a week = around 800 euros a month right?

at minimum wage

[strange pewter]

yeah probably

[hard prairie]

thats 4 hours of work each day idk, if u can manage with studies, then go ahead

[strange pewter]

I have to

I'll manage

besides I love what I want to study

[hard prairie]

if you dont mind me asking why cant ur parents cover it till your 20 atleast?

[strange pewter]

besides if I find something above minimum wage that'll work out well

[strange pewter]

because I live in palestine

we don't exactly have the financial capabilties here

[hard prairie]

ohh i see

[strange pewter]

average wage is $600 a month lol

[hard prairie]

ah i see

gdluck then

[strange pewter]

ty man

in your time there, have you seen many students working for minimum wage?

[hard prairie]

btw idk but you should expect a cultural shock coming here? or you know what to expect right?

[strange pewter]

or is it sometimes or usually above that

[strange pewter]

I think I know enough and i'll adapt

I have alot of germany friends

[hard prairie]

my frnd atm is doing an internship and he doesnt get a lot of money but ive heard most of ppl who work r in uni

[strange pewter]

do they make minimum wage or more

[hard prairie]

yh like the more liberal ppl etc etc yk what i mean like when ppl from my homecountry (iraq) usually have a culture shock

like if a woman or a girl sits next to you on the train or the bus yk, for me it was normal because i grew up in uae it was already pretty liberal

[strange pewter]

yeah I'm not into arab views regardless

I don't mind things like that

[hard prairie]

ah then ur all good to go

[strange pewter]

do you know about this?

[hard prairie]

not yet sry not in uni yet

[strange pewter]

no worries

I guess I'll just have to play it smart

try to find something with as high of a wage as possible

or maybe i'll get unlucky and find nothing at all

who knows

[hard prairie]

u can maybe work in aldi cashier or smthn like that

[strange pewter]

thats like 1200 euros a month

should cover all

i wouldn't mind working something more labor intensive than a cashier

[hard prairie]

most insurances like AOK state 30 hours maximum of work for students i can be wrong tho

[strange pewter]

and 4 hours is not alot of time to work per day

I've worked 14 hours a day for a couple weeks here xD

with school

[hard prairie]

i mean if its too labour intensive you do have studies

[strange pewter]

well not anything that'd keep me too fatigued

just not standing behind a desk

[hard prairie]

mhm yea i get you

[strange pewter]

especially since I won't be able to properly communicate yet when I'm there

not enough to be a cashier

that'd be after I finish some language courses

thank you so much for the sources though man i'll keep them in mind

[hard prairie]

you need atleast B1 to start working ig

[hard prairie]

nws ;)

[strange pewter]

there are many jobs that don't need B1

I just need to find the right ones

[strange pewter]

@hard prairie https://www.trustpilot.com/review/evolanguage.de ?

I've been talking to some guy at evolanguage support

it's like, insane

LMAO

[hard prairie]

was it bad?

[strange pewter]

bro

I tell him i'm palestinian

"So you are indian?"

"Yes"

[hard prairie]

tbh i think the ratings dont matter the school i went to had kinda bad ratings but i thought it was good

[strange pewter]

he's basically forcing me to join

LMAOO

if I ask any question he's just like Yeah, anyway when are you joining?

[hard prairie]

in the chat? maybe its the chatbot? i called and they were helpful

maybe try email

[strange pewter]

no it's a guy called brian

he made it clear he was not AI

cause that was the first thing I asked

[hard prairie]

ig they are closed now so its probs a bot called brian

mhm idk

[strange pewter]

he's pretty

human-ish

it's so strange man

I mean the offer seems so good but still

I feel like public uni with language courses could be better

[hard prairie]

mhm go for that then

[strange pewter]

thanks for your help regardless man

life saver

[hard prairie]

nws ;) happy to help

[strange pewter]

I'm just gonna repost some further questions incase anyone else checks this and has some answers

Hello future people, if you have any ideas on what's the best way to study German in Germany at a low cost, preferably near Aachen or Berlin, please do give your thoughts, anything helps, preferably something in person that allows me to get a Visa and study it there

[wheat anvil]

unrelated to your question but i would 100% check the area you're moving into prior to moving. the discrimination against middle easterners is really harsh in some areas, and some of my friends have been refused service regularly when going there on vacation

[strange pewter]

that's a good thing to make sure of, thank you

[hard prairie]

tbh havent encountered that so far as long as you speak or try to speak german

[silent copper]

Wait why do you need a German language course In English?

[strange pewter]

how am i supposed to learn german without knowing german

[silent copper]

The whole thread is messing so bad with me lmfao it's BAMF who's holding integration courses, they're mainly for refugees and people who get the course paid for by the state, but if there's empty slots u can still get in

Oh sweet summer child lol

I teach in Integration courses myself

We are 100% FORBIDDEN to talk any other language than German

[strange pewter]

my best bet is language courses in college? or language schools

[strange pewter]

i kind of ruled those out already

[silent copper]

It does work. You learn from the context and immersion. It's obvious if I say "hallo, mein Name ist xyz, wie heißt du?" and every other student says the exact same, the meaning will be clear

Language schools and good colleges will also go by the 100% German.

If you're planning to study in Germany afterwards, id suggest learning until B1 in your country with Goethe or whatever and do DSH here afterwards

Integration courses are rather expensive for someone who doesn't get it paid by the state

Language schools often have 0 regulations on WHO or HOW they're teaching, no one supervises them, it could be absolute bs

[strange pewter]

I can't really study German here, it'd be too costly with the travel expenses to the city that actually has Goethe, I was planning to study & possibly work / freelance in Germany while I learn

that's why i'm trying to possible find a college or university with language courses

[silent copper]

Another problem here

They'd give you a language learning visa. You're not really allowed to work much with that

[strange pewter]

well that's a problem

I don't know what else I could do

studying it here is too expensive

[silent copper]

And online courses, studying it on your own?

[strange pewter]

I already do, kind of

it's difficult for me to fully commit and be motivated to study things on my own if it's not a passion

and I can't focus well on online courses

I'm still trying my best to learn as much as I can by myself

[silent copper]

And what about studying in English instead of German?

[strange pewter]

the courses I'm looking for are unavailable in English

[silent copper]

Some universities require only A1 to ensure your basic survival kinda

Oh well

[strange pewter]

would it work if I got a student visa by applying and studying for any possible english course and studying german while there?

[silent copper]

Apparently if you change your major once before hitting the 4th semester you're alright

So yeah that could work

[strange pewter]

wait wdym

[silent copper]

Universities usually offer language courses for free / like 50 bucks a year to their own students so that's definitely an option

If non EU citizens want to change their major AFTER hitting the 4th semester they might be denied another visa

Since it could be they're just trying to be here forever and whatnot

[strange pewter]

Like if I change from the english course to the german course after I reach B1?

which shouldn't take more than 2 semesters right

[silent copper]

You have to do so before the 4th semester then you're fine

B1 is like 700 hours of class in an intensive course

Depends on what kind of classes the university offers

The most common are like 2 hours a week and you end up with A1.1 after one semester, A1.2 after the second, then A2.1 etc... They're slow. But ones who are somehow specialized on languages will have faster ones too

[strange pewter]

2 hours a week??

is there no way to get more intensive courses

so far this seems to be the only chance I hold to actually achieve what I want

[silent copper]

As I said find an university with a good language setup and they might have more

Let me check mine

We have 60 hours in one month, technically B1 within one semester

[strange pewter]

also when you said change major, am I only allowed to change my major within the same university?

or am I allowed to apply for another university and study there

[silent copper]

Nah you can go anywhere and do anything you want

[strange pewter]

oh that's perfect then

I just wish German University websites weren't so damn confusing

front end is in german/english but all the important information is always in german

even for the "international friendly" schools

[silent copper]

Not just university, even governmental pages are like that lol they wont lose a word about foreign visa requirements in English, but as soon as you switch to German it's like "!!!!!!!!! CAREFUL ALL FOREIGNER"

welcome to Germany

[strange pewter]

LMAO

it's so difficult trying to understand what's required of me

anyway thank you so much man

it's helped alot :)

[silent copper]

If I can help any more lmk u welcome

And @hard prairie buddy if you call BAMF 'damp' one more time i-

[strange pewter]

i was so confused when i googled it 😭

[silent copper]

Oh also minimum wage, yeah any unlearned student will work for minimum wage, and you cant really do more than 520 eur a month

As soon as you earn 521 both you and the employer have to pay tax

[strange pewter]

how much will the tax deduct?

[silent copper]

And if you earn 521 they'll take 100 in tax already so u end up with 421 it's not worth it. Plus you need a different more expensive insurance yada yada

[strange pewter]

so if I earned 1200 euro a month what would i really make

i'm lost

20% tax?

[silent copper]

Idk exactly about the insurances, but I'd say about 900

Insurances are like 10%

Income tax like 20

[strange pewter]

still worth it

[silent copper]

Well if you can do so while studying

[strange pewter]

and if i get a bit higher than minimum wage possibly will be better

[strange pewter]

I'll have to :)

as I said, expenses are a big part of my journey there

[silent copper]

There will always be a student doing it for less lmao

I'd suggest living in east Germany instead then

[strange pewter]

that's true

[silent copper]

I lived in a dorm where I paid 200 in rent including ijnternet

[strange pewter]

like, berlin?

[silent copper]

Nonono

Berlin you'll pay 800 in rent lmfao

[strange pewter]

jfc

[silent copper]

Berlin is the worst for 'cheap'

Same for Munich

[strange pewter]

0 privacy

how can you manage

[silent copper]

Rather look at Leipzig, Halle, Jena, Dortmund...

No

Dorms here always have ur own room

I had 20m for myself

[strange pewter]

aren't dorms like

multiple beds in one room

[silent copper]

My own TV, Couch, bed

Nope never

[strange pewter]

ohh fair

okay

[silent copper]

U just share kitchen and bathroom with 2-3 others

In Berli more likely 7 others

[strange pewter]

so all I need is to find a german university near any of those cities

I need something close to berlin though

[silent copper]

I can give more examples if you need more lol

[strange pewter]

it's either close to berlin or close to netherlands

[silent copper]

They're all not tooo far

From Jena it's 3,5h

[strange pewter]

that's where i have relatives

I'll take a look at those in a bit

[silent copper]

Leipzig 3 or less

[strange pewter]

tysm :)

[silent copper]

And other living expenses I had like 150 eur for food Internet etc, but I live really really cheap. 50 eur for studies, So ultimately 400 eur expenses. You also need to pay insurances and whatnot extra because foreigner, but it does work somehow

[hard prairie]

sorry i forgot😭 i did write it the right way later

[silent copper]

Later you wrote damf

[hard prairie]

omg its the B 😂

w8- u reacted to ur own msg💀

[hard prairie]

i mean they must be moist hence damp

[silent copper]

I can ensure you they do not have any emotions

[hard prairie]

see i was right then😂

[strange pewter]

tysm man

[strange pewter]

I have found nothing in English

the few universities I have found that give courses in English still require C1/C2 for admission??

[silent copper]

https://www.uni-jena.de/en/international-study-programmes

Eg Anglistik (English) only needs English and Latin OR a second modern language. Standard Arabic counts

https://www.uni-leipzig.de/en/studying/prospective-students/courses-of-study/degree-programme/course/show/american-studies-ba

Only English on B2

[strange pewter]

do i have to study american studies 😭

[silent copper]

Nah

It's just the first i found going by abc

If you prefer Chinese

https://www.uni-leipzig.de/en/studying/prospective-students/courses-of-study/degree-programme/course/show/chinese-studies-ba

https://www.uni-leipzig.de/en/international/studying-at-leipzig-university/during-your-studies

Here's Info about language

You can also do minority European languages

https://www.uni-leipzig.de/en/studying/prospective-students/courses-of-study

Anything that's BA and doesn't have German in language requirements 🤷🏻‍♂️

For the course "German as foreign language" C1 is requiremd

But it does not teach you German, it teaches you how to TEACH german

[strange pewter]

yea that's fair

I'm looking for anything technical in english but it's tough to find

robotics, automation, computer science if possible, etc

not engineering

[silent copper]

Them applied Hochschule might be better

[strange pewter]

I'll keep looking maybe i'll find hidden gold somewhere

[silent copper]

Look for Hochschule instead of university

EAH Jena for example

Idk if they have English only bachelors, masters they definitely do

[strange pewter]

yeah i can't join masters yet

[strange pewter]

Hochschule?

is it similar to university? public?

costs

[silent copper]

Yep, exact same, regular bachelor too

The difference is their class structure. Hochschule works more like high school, daily classes from 8-15 or so, many internships, very practical oriented, small courses

[strange pewter]

so it will be the same cost or cheaper? more expensive?

or literally the same

[silent copper]

In university there will be 500 people in a class with the prof talking all the time, while in Hochschule there's more group work etc. But often the classes are mandatory like in school. In uni no one cares if you're there or not

Same costs

[strange pewter]

okay

ohh i see

[silent copper]

They also normally share the same dorms

[strange pewter]

Hochschule i slike closer to normal school

[silent copper]

Yep

[strange pewter]

that's way better

thanks man i didn't know that existed

[strange pewter]

do they also have language courses?

[silent copper]

They also normally share them with university

[strange pewter]

that's really nice

so I just need to find a good one

[terse oxide]

In Hochschule (at least the one I went to) most courses aren't mandatory. Only some key seminars and all language courses are. The reason for language courses is that they can only certify you if you have taken a fixed number of hours.
For my Technical English course, we were allowed to skip two classes out of 15-ish. Some people just skipped the first two weeks with the reasoning that they just have to show up for the other classes. Then two weeks before finals, the trains didn't go because of a thunderstorm. A lot of those people had to retake the entire course next semester because of that.

[strange pewter]

wait so they're good or bad?

I'm not sure whether or not I should join one

[terse oxide]

What are 'they'? Hochschule, you mean?

[strange pewter]

yes

in general, is it any different from university? like harder

is it worse for your education or better?

[terse oxide]

I mean, from the way it was portrayed above all classes in Hochschule are mandatory. They are not. And even those that are, if you organise yourself well, this isn't nearly as much of a problem as it - in my eyes - was made out to be.

[terse oxide]

It certainly is different. I first did a degree in uni, and then two in Hochschule. Uni is way more theoretical (which is harder for most people), while Hochschule is more practically oriented, so you have comparatively more hands-on stuff. Of course, it's still way more theoretical than - say - an Ausbildung.

[silent copper]

My bad, yeah it heavily depends on the professors and Hochschule. Sometimes none are mandatory, sometimes a lot will be. In university it's not allowed for the professors to set such rules

[terse oxide]

It was for a while. I think they revised the law a few years ago, but most professors didn't care to make use of that.

At least in my state of NRW.

[strange pewter]

that's way better

I love it being hands on and practical

[silent copper]

Yeah it was changed a few years ago, deff not allowed anymore

[strange pewter]

I don't like theoritical learning

but wdym like mandatory and not mandatory

[terse oxide]

Like the professor checking attendence.

[strange pewter]

ohh

like you HAVE to be there

that's not a problem

[terse oxide]

Yeah.

[strange pewter]

how much attendance do you need

80%?

[silent copper]

Up to the professor

[strange pewter]

fair enough

so there will be alot of emails back and forth xD

I just need to find the hochschule of my dreams then

[terse oxide]

Depends on the course. For me, the language courses were the strictest, with 2 missed out of ~15 still ok, but not more. If that were 15 classes, that would be a rate of ~85%.

[strange pewter]

that's not bad

[terse oxide]

Some others had 50% attendence, and most didn't have any.

[strange pewter]

I don't plan on missing any

you guys are legends

[silent copper]

A friend of mine had a car accident and couldn't go to class two weeks

[terse oxide]

That's a good mindset. You'll probably miss one or the other because of unforeseeable situations, but that happens...

[strange pewter]

I was almost losing hope in studying there

[silent copper]

And the professor (🤡) didn't let him take part in the exam due to one too little attendance

[terse oxide]

Exams are of course 100% mandatory, though :P

[strange pewter]

to be honest I feel like the only way I'd miss something is if i literally was not able to transit there

I don't know how the transit system works yet

[terse oxide]

Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't :D

[strange pewter]

so i've heard LMAO

[silent copper]

But within cities and their own transport it usually does work

[strange pewter]

you know the funniest part to me

i've had atleast 3-4 phone calls with german friends where they call me cause they're panicking after getting lost from the train system

if they can't navigate their own train system how will I

[silent copper]

Panic? Noobs, we don't panic anymore we just get mad at them and complain along with the other passengers. Best friendships develop

Nvm I read panic because the trains don't show up or sth

[terse oxide]

Ok, getting lost is rare once you know your routes. And if you commute, after a few weeks at most you will know your routes.

[strange pewter]

yea ik it's not an everyday thing

it's just a random thing

[terse oxide]

I mean, it can happen even on your daily commute if you have to switch trains and one of them just doesn't go that day because of some reason.

[strange pewter]

https://www.hgb-leipzig.de/en/study/degreeprogrammes

who the hell is the web designer for this 😭

[silent copper]

Probably the students themselves

[strange pewter]

I don't know what to even look for

[silent copper]

Those creative focused universities

https://www.uni-weimar.de/de/universitaet/start/

[strange pewter]

do i need to google applied sciences hochschule?

[silent copper]

Always have the shittiest layout

[terse oxide]

For a time, I commuted twice a week for like 3-4 hours at once. And when a train fell out, I was somewhat stranded at the last major interchange station and had to figure out a different route on the fly.

[silent copper]

No just Hochschule, it's always applied science

[strange pewter]

I googled that and I found the art and design thing I just sent

[strange pewter]

That's true

not like I could do any better

[strange pewter]

that's just unfortunate

[silent copper]

Well they all focus on something. The one in Jena is focused on computers and engineering

[strange pewter]

https://www.eah-jena.de/

this?

[silent copper]

Yup

[terse oxide]

But I had situations like this maybe 10 times in five years. Seems not too unreasonable to me.

[hard prairie]

wow 400+ msgs in this thread

[strange pewter]

it's all engineering

nothing about computers

I'm not sure whether or not I'd like to get into engineering

also I think I'd need a bridging course for that first

which is in German, no?

I think I just remembered a flaw in this

I remembered emailing some university and they mentioned that my high-school certificate is not enough to apply for university, which means I'd need a preparation course/bridging course

[terse oxide]

I can't really say much about engineering, but if you want to know anything about CS, I can probably help you out there. That's what I did my two Hochschule degrees in.

[silent copper]

Technik Wirtschaft soziales Gesundheit, euhh maybe economics? That's fairly easy. I thought it's more about just doing random thingies for a while to learn German?

[strange pewter]

that's exactly what I want

[silent copper]

That's important Information

[strange pewter]

it is, but the closer to my main course of study the better

[silent copper]

Then you need to do studienkolleg anyways

[strange pewter]

it is

[strange pewter]

what is that

[terse oxide]

The entrance requirements of Hochschule actually are a tiny bit lower than University, so you might want to ask for that separately.

[strange pewter]

; I'd rather waste less time on useless courses, so if it's a bit relevant, it's better

[strange pewter]

people love to help, and I'm happy

[terse oxide]

I'll be back later, if you have any questions, feel free to ask and I'll reply when I get back.

[silent copper]

It's more about visa stuff

[strange pewter]

just about this, if possible

[strange pewter]

nw take ur time :)

[hard prairie]

its for ppl who did anything equivalent to abitur, i did a levels so that equates to abitur, hence i didnt do studentkollege, it depends on the school leaving certificate you have

[strange pewter]

what's the studienkolleg

ohh

wait so what do I need to do

[silent copper]

Basically you have one year of history, Mathematics, biology....

[strange pewter]

and I take that in germany?

[silent copper]

To make sure your general knowledge equals the level of a random school boy here in Germany

[strange pewter]

yeah that's fair

might be tough but I'll manage, hopefully

[silent copper]

Yep it's a thing done at university

[strange pewter]

but the issue is whether or not they do them in english

[hard prairie]

look up if your school leaving certificate equates to abitur if not then u need to do studentkollege, u start it after B2 and its 10 months then u do C1

[strange pewter]

I don't know how to look that up?

what exactly am I looking up

[silent copper]

Well endless circle

U already need B1

[hard prairie]

search if your certificate equates to abitur

[silent copper]

See this

https://www.uni-jena.de/en/preparatorycollege

[hard prairie]

depends which studentkollege tho

no?

[silent copper]

Nope

At least I've never seen one asking for less than B1 and Google also doesn't give me anything

[silent copper]

Check this

https://www.daad.de/deutschland/nach-deutschland/voraussetzungen/en/57293-daad-database-on-admission-requirements/

[hard prairie]

so ur "tawjihi" is equivalent to abitur ig?

[strange pewter]

genuinely have no idea

but it seems so

[strange pewter]

so i CAN apply for preparatory course?

[silent copper]

Subject restricted

Yes for the preparation definitely

But for CS it doesn't look like it

[strange pewter]

but I can't study computer science

but I can take a bridging course, right?

[silent copper]

We have mandatory CS classes in high school, I guess you're missing those?

[strange pewter]

it's more like

in Palestine you have different streams for tawjihi

it's like

[hard prairie]

"The required entry requirement is the Abitur – the Palestinian “tawjihi” or degrees recognized as equivalent to this, since last year also the German International Abitur (DIAP). The Abitur grade decides on access to individual subjects (numerus clausus)."
https://www.daad.de/de/laenderinformationen/asien/palaestinensische-gebiete/studieren-und-leben-in-den-palaestinensischen-gebieten/

[strange pewter]

in 11th grade you decide your stream

[silent copper]

Ah yeah yeah we also have that

Okay yeah

[strange pewter]

yeah

I had literary stream

which I regret

my highest grade was literally math, had 20 points above everything

[silent copper]

Its also a thing here, idk if there's another way to change it other than studienkolleg

[strange pewter]

if I took science I would've done better

[hard prairie]

so ig no need for studentkolleg

[strange pewter]

I don't mind that

okay so let's back track to the steps

[silent copper]

He basically has Fachhochschulreife not Abitur

[strange pewter]

I can apply for preparatory course, or do I not need to?

[hard prairie]

yes but check what i sent above

[hard prairie]

best to email the uni you want to study at

[silent copper]

Fachhochschulreife is 12 years not 13 years and only allows u in ur area

Bro what u sent is

If a German wants to study in Palestine

[hard prairie]

oh lmao

[silent copper]

"studieren und leben in Palestine" thanks bro im done studying 😂

[strange pewter]

is Fachhochschulreife worse than Abitur

I'm seeing alot of fancy german words

[silent copper]

A tiny bit, but it works the same?

It's just a specialized Abitur

[strange pewter]

ah fair

okay so

to simplify it

I don't need the studentkolleg?

[hard prairie]

email ur uni but probs no

u need it

[strange pewter]

that's fine

okay so I need studentkolleg

that's 1 year?

[silent copper]

If you want to study in CS u need it

Yes

[strange pewter]

wait I think I'm getting lost

I need Preparatory courses AND studentkolleg?

[silent copper]

There's no preparatory courses

[strange pewter]

okay

[silent copper]

Just studienkolleg > uni

[strange pewter]

couldn't that solve my issue with english courses

[silent copper]

Wym

[strange pewter]

is studienkolleg in english at all?

[silent copper]

Studienkolleg requires B1

[strange pewter]

oh damn

so I need german first

[silent copper]

Endless cycle

[strange pewter]

here's what I'm thinking

correct me if I'm wrong

Apply for english course, take german language courses at the same time, when B1 achieved switch to Studienkolleg, after finishing it I can apply for CS?

[silent copper]

n-no

Or

Well yes

Apply for a course thats listed in ur degree thingy

Economics is fairly easy

So u can concentrate on German more

[strange pewter]

it's math heavy?

I kind of do need math anyway

[silent copper]

Yeah you can pick the maths ones if you want

Like you'll only do it temporarily anyways

[strange pewter]

yeah I know

alright so

[silent copper]

But tbh I've never had this case of switching to studienkolleg AFTER studying already

[strange pewter]

always a first

if it works it works

[strange pewter]

but in theory it'd work?

[silent copper]

In theory I see nothing speaking against it

[strange pewter]

fair enough

[silent copper]

I'd contact the International office at an uni and ask them

Just more General like

"what if I wanna do maths now but I'm not sure I'll like it, but for medicine I'd need a studienkolleg, could I still do the studienkolleg after quitting maths?"

[strange pewter]

I'll try that

[silent copper]

Gotta go work so I can pay my energy bills to help people like you while laying in bed all day good luck and keep us updated

[strange pewter]

no worries man goodluck out there :)

[terse oxide]

When I was in school (which is not that long ago considering I'm still under 30), we only had one mandatory year in fifth grade. How to make a free mail-account, how to use Word, stuff like that.

I'm back, by the way.

[terse oxide]

You wanted to ask something? Or was it already answered?

[strange pewter]

actually just to ask about whether or not u think my plan would work

[terse oxide]

Since I'm a German native, I can't really say anything about Studienkolleg. Universities offer bridging courses on a few basics right before the first semester starts, usually ~2 weeks long.
I didn't get what your plan is you want to ask me about?

[strange pewter]

sorry im a bit busy but i'm trying to write it

do you think i could apply for a student visa by first applying for economics in an english course, studying german while completing my studies?

then once I complete B1/C1 while in economics, I can switch over to Studienkollege for a year

after that I can reapply for my course of choice in german

[terse oxide]

You could do that. But if you want to study CS, why don't you apply for an English-speaking CS course and switch to German later?

[strange pewter]

.

[terse oxide]

Ah, I see. Then maybe you could also qualify for Wirtschaftsinformatik. Do you know that course?

[strange pewter]

no clue

business?

[terse oxide]

Yeah, a mix of business and CS.

It's even less technical/theoretical than Hochschul-CS, from what I gather, and you might be qualified to take it.

[strange pewter]

so, more practical?

not sure

I think economics will be good for me

if it's math

not sure what it even is

[terse oxide]

I think more leaning towards management/administration side of business, but I'm not sure since I did "pure" CS.

But we had some business/law related courses even with that.

[terse oxide]

If that's where you're interests are, then sure, take it. I was under the impression that you wanted to take econ just to have something to get into Germany.

[strange pewter]

it's about what's most relevant

economics is mathematics related

which I need math for CS

if Wirtschaftsinformatik is more relevant for me I can consider it

but so far I don't even know if I qualify for it

[terse oxide]

You need different math in econ and CS. There's some overlap, but I wouldn't overestimate it.

[strange pewter]

depends on what kind of CS you want

[terse oxide]

That's somewhat true, but I'd say for everything except maybe Wirtschaftsinformatik, there would be a lot of concepts you'd need to newly learn after the switch.

The most obvious ones in my opinion being proof by induction and Big-O-notation.

Big-O definitely wouldn't be covered in an econ class. And from what I've heard, they're also not that great on proving stuff.

[strange pewter]

I don't even know what Big-O is

how do i know if i qualify for Wirtschaftsinformatik

[terse oxide]

Formally it's part of the Landau-symbols. If you want to compare algorithms (for stuff like sorting, searching etc.), you want to know which algorithm is better for large datasets. Big-O is used to roughly categorize those algorithms.

[strange pewter]

ohh

that's really useful

[terse oxide]

I have no idea. I'd guess you'd have to ask.

[strange pewter]

alright fair

tysm

I have so much to note down

I hope this channel doesn't close

[terse oxide]

I'm pretty sure it won't. And even if it would get closed, threads usually don't get deleted. So you could just update your original post and start a new one. ^^

If you want to ask anything math-related, I studied that in university and tutored/TA'd a few courses in Hochschule.

[strange pewter]

alright ty man

[strange pewter]

i'm terrible at math LMAO

especially cause of covid

i basically skipped 2 years of school

0 studying

and was automatically passed

[terse oxide]

When I tutored, I taught almost exclusivly people that were. Most of the time, it wasn't their "fault" or anything, just that they hadn't been properly explained stuff or they had forgotten basics, which came back to bite them when they weren't able to get back on track later.

[strange pewter]

though ironically

i got 85 in math

[terse oxide]

But when they got their basics in order, that made life so much easier for most of them.

[strange pewter]

60s in the rest

[strange pewter]

yeahh

that sounds like me

[strange pewter]

I guess the only thing left is to maybe ask for help on what college to join

@terse oxide should I ask here or is it better to make a different thread?

[terse oxide]

I don't know. Maybe more people would notice with a separate post...

[strange pewter]

that's true

but tbh this is only more popular because of how big it already is

[terse oxide]

But then you should summarize the more important points of this thread so anyone reading it would know what you're looking for any why.