Does that little circle signify a tiny pause which doesn't seem to be a glottal stop? @autumn sapphire
#questions-2
long whale
autumn sapphire
nop, it's devoicing
your brain says a d but what comes out could be mistaken for a t
(there is no precise definition of the difference between d̥, t̬ (voiced t) or t̬ and d or d̥ and t
)
brittle basin
Hello again, I was watching this guy and he said, I guess, "kleiner Spaß". Am I right? Does it mean sth. like "just kidding"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0pBOTzbDHs (at 4:00). Thanks!
glossy marsh
Yes, it translates to "small (harmless) joke".
brittle basin
Thank you a lot!
frail marten
pass auf - be careful, watch(pay attention)
Pass auf ihn auf - take care of him
If i drop the second auf, what would change? Or it just doesn't work at all?
sly ferry
technically it would work colloquially but it would mean something entirely else, so no in this context it's just not possible
frail marten
Thank you
brittle basin
Hello! Correct if I'm wrong please: in "pass auf ihn auf", the first "auf" is a preposition and the second one is from the verb "aufpassen", right?
proven sphinx
Yeah, exactly.
pass | auf ihn | auf
"auf ihn" is the prepositional object and "pass auf" is the verb.
brittle basin
thank you!
fervent kernel
Hey, a question. How can I use the English word "just" in a German sentence? Can I say "einfach"?
I just want to be happy.
Ich will einfach glücklich sein?
blazing lark
yes, that works. or "einfach nur" would also work, it might carry a bit more nuance
fervent kernel
And just "nur" is also correct?
blazing lark
oh yeah, even that would work. to me it would carry the sense of "merely" or "only", whereas "einfach" or "einfach nur" leans more towards "simply" or "just" (to my ear anyway)
fervent kernel
Ok. Danke! 
blazing lark
no prob 🙂
fervent kernel
Kann man "feststellen" mit "to realize" übersetzen?
oder bedeutet es etwas anderes?
Wie kann ich "vorkommen" zu Englisch übersetzen?
celest frost
Kontext bitte
"So was kommt vor" -> "Stuff like that happens"
"Ich stellte fest, dass er einen Hut trug" -> "I realized he was wearing a hat"
also "ja" auf deine Frage vermutlich
fervent kernel
Okay
Es gibt angeblich andere Kontexte, in welchen die Wörter eine andere Bedeutung haben, aber Ihr Kontext ist was, Ich suchte. Danke ( :
Wissen Sie auch, ob es eine gute Übersetzung für das Idiom 'to be looking for something' gibt?
celest frost
Die Redewendung könnte man mit "nach etwas suchen" übersetzen, aber das klingt etwas unspektakulär, also weiß ich nicht, ob du danach gesucht hast
fervent kernel
Was würden Sie normalerweise sagen?
celest frost
"Are you looking for something?" -> "Suchst du was?"
"Look for potatoes when you do the groceries" -> "Halte Ausschau nach Kartoffeln, wenn du (Lebensmittel) einkaufen gehst"
cannot think of other use cases right now 🤔
fervent kernel
Alright
Thank you though
Wäre "Erkennen" eine bessere Übersetzung von "to realize"?
glossy marsh
Yes.
celest frost
mmmh... "feststellen" klingt neutraler während "erkennen" persönlicher klingt. Quasi wie eine Art persönliche Offenbarung
glossy marsh
Feststellen -> Found something to be so
Erkennen -> Recognise/realize
Erkennen has different meanings.
sand vine
Is "er glaubte Flügelschläge zu hören" a grammatical sentence? First time seeing this sentence structure
long whale
@sand vine Yup. Absolutely correct. :)
sand vine
Because i would have written er glaubte, schläge gehört zu haben
long whale
Mind you, it's not something you'd actually hear, but it's not that uncommon in written German.
Um... That's a bit different, I think.
1st one is... at that moment he thought he was hearing beating wings. 2nd one is more like He thought he'd heard...
sand vine
Does the structure work with other verbs apart from glauben? It sounds like something that doesnt rly follow the grammar rules i learnt so far
Especially since there is no comma
Like
long whale
Hmm... Let me think...
sand vine
Ich bereue das zu machen sounds weird
long whale
No, that couldn't work, you wouldn't say "I'm regretting doing this", that would be nonsensical, right?
long whale
No, please read above. :)
swift bough
ah
sand vine
Oh so its like a past continuous tense construction?
Hmm is there a name for it so i can look it up?
Ich habe etwas zu machen seems to follow the same format
long whale
Should come up somewhere in the chapter on "Infinitiv mit zu", I suppose...
sand vine
Mind you, it's not something you'd actually hear, but it's not that uncommon in written German.
@long whale would inserting a comma still make it right? Er glaubte, schläge zu hören.
long whale
@sand vine No name of concept as yet, but I think I've found another verb you can use the same way: "sich etwas einbilden" (to imagine something, but more in the sense of hallucinating): Er bildete sich ein, ihr Herz schlagen zu hören. - And yes, looks fine to me with the comma.
So, I do think it's just Infinitiv mit zu. 🤷
sand vine
Ah ok thanks i think the lack of comma just threw me way off
golden sail
Hi! I'm looking for some ideas to write in German. I thought maybe Wikipedia. Do you have other ideas, or do you know some study/translating groups?
sand vine
But am i right to say that sometimes thr comma is obligatory and sometimes not? Referring to proper writing here. Ich versuchte, etw zu unternehmen.
Es ist unvermeidbar, manchmal einsam zu sein.
@long whale
long whale
@sand vine Yes, that's correct. Here's all of it: https://www.duden.de/sprachwissen/rechtschreibregeln/komma#D125
glad isle
What's the difference between "ihr" and "du"? They both mean "you" but I can't understand why it's used differently. and do the endings of things like "have" change accordingly?.. like, "habt" changing to "hast"?
plain umbra
Du is when you're talking to one person and ihr is when you're talking to 2+ people.
Sort of like y'all in US English.
glad isle
ah, that makes sense
glad isle
they or she depending on the context i believe
plain umbra
It can be that.
But capitalized Sie is also "you".
For example:
Lernt sie Deutsch? = Does she learn German?
Lernen sie Deutsch? = Do they learn German?
Lernen Sie Deutsch? = Do you learn German?
The difference here is that du and ihr are both "informal", which means you use them with friends, family, etc. and Sie is "formal" which means you use it with strangers or sometimes authority figures like your boss, etc.
glad isle
Okay, this makes a lot more sense now. Thanks for clearing that up!!
plain umbra
No problem.
left star
How can i avoid gender fright?
Like when i speak/ write im always afraid not to mess the genders
glossy marsh
Memorise, that's all.
plain umbra
Don't be afraid to make mistakes. A few mistakes here or there isn't a huge deal. As long as you're trying your best. @left star
autumn sapphire
i still make gender mistakes after years of living here 
oblique plinth
i thought for the longest time that it was die Institut
🤦🏽♂️
you're definitely not alone
proven sphinx
Yeah, I can imagine how that might happen for words that aren't in such common usage.
Natives are usually very tolerant of such mistakes. Don't be afraid.
autumn sapphire
they start to be less tolerant when i iteratively try all the possibilities looking at their expressions in hopes to guess which one was right, but they go deadpan the whole time so i can't
and then it happens all over again one sentence later when i have to repeat that same word and still haven't figured out the right gender
manic jetty
they start to be less tolerant when i iteratively try all the possibilities looking at their expressions in hopes to guess which one was right, but they go deadpan the whole time so i can't
@autumn sapphire im native and i havent looked werid at someone for using the wrong article and i yet have to see one native doing that
german literally dont care about that and they sometimes make mistakes themselves
autumn sapphire
no that's the point
manic jetty
even when you are interviewing someone on tv for example (poltik) foreigners get it wrong and noone cares at all
autumn sapphire
if you looked at me weird when i used the wrong gender i would at least have a hint to figure it out
manic jetty
maybe it would be weird if you used "das" for every single one so id notice
autumn sapphire
statistically speaking, der is the most common so i'd pick that one if i were to use just one 
and it's also the least ambiguous when it comes to case and number
proven sphinx
@autumn sapphire Do you have any examples for words where you often get the gender wrong?
autumn sapphire
hmm not off the top of my hat
if i could remember them after the fact i'd just look them up :D and sometimes i do
manic jetty
Die Fakultät
Die Maskulinität
Die Affinität
Die Agillität
ät, ät, ät
Das Gerät
i mean many words have the exact same gender
you just need to look at the ending
autumn sapphire
but many times when i get one wrong i actually do know the right one, but in the heat of the moment by the time i recall it i've already said something random
i mean many words have the exact same gender
you just need to look at the ending
@manic jetty i mean yeah, i wrote the faqs that explain how those work, you don't need to tell me :P
manic jetty
my bad, dont whip me :>
autumn sapphire
what if you end up liking it 😏
manic jetty
now it gets kinky
autumn sapphire
it always does
manic jetty
Wollen wir uns ein Zimmer suchen
autumn sapphire
that's not kinky enough. Public is better
— every beginner java programmer
anyway all the -ät above that are die are actually latin borrowed words, those are easy for me. I don't know if there's a specific pattern to those i get wrong but if i find out i'll do some specific research
stuck abyss
please everyone,How do I know that Vocabulary Belongs to Which CEFR Levels?
fervent kernel
bro i think its eure antworten
waxen vapor
@autumn sapphire I was doing the same thing, but yeah, it just puts too much strain on the conversation. Now I let it go, correcting only if I'm sure, but not pushing it. They really don't care.
I usually just fall back to just saying 'oder wie sagt man das auf Deutsch' they say, we move on, done
I mostly speak with doctors last several months and despite my errors, we still understand each other
And that's the main reason of learning a language - to be understood
If you get that, no matter if it's because your German is perfect or because the other side knows what you want to say, mission is accomplished
I think we internalise good patterns with time, so, the best thing you can do for your database in brain is to read and listen a lot.
thorn pelican
@stuck abyss There's a goethe list up to cefr b1. after that it's basically get your vocab as big as possible, especially in areas that are relevant to your personal interests but otherwise there is no distinct list
https://www.goethe.de/pro/relaunch/prf/en/Goethe-Zertifikat_B1_Wortliste.pdf
stuck abyss
@thorn pelican but I'm looking for a website that can tells me if this "word"belongs to A1 or A2 etcetera
thorn pelican
A1 https://www.goethe.de/pro/relaunch/prf/de/A1_SD1_Wortliste_02.pdf
A2 https://www.goethe.de/pro/relaunch/prf/en/Goethe-Zertifikat_A2_Wortliste.pdf
otherwise worse aren't really categorised to a level @stuck abyss
There are certain themes you need to be able to talk about which are outlined in the a1-b1 lists that i've already linked. but beyond that there isn't a 'this word belongs to x level' list
stuck abyss
@thorn pelican ok,thank you
fierce idol
I guess it's a joke, but pls don't make discriminatory jokes like that @fervent kernel
undone thicket
fervent kernel
Damn
proven sphinx
@fervent kernel Dude, this isn't the meme channel.
near folio
@fervent kernel bitte hör damit auf
loud carbon
I’m not sure if i’m allowed to ask sth about english but i’ll try my chance:
“Nah, i dont really want it.”
Does it sound like that i REALLY dont want or that i want but not that much
thorn pelican
neither. but definitely not the latter.
i don't really want it is yeah i don't want it but i suppose i'll deal with it / take it anyway if i have to
plain umbra
@loud carbon The correct channels for asking about other languages are #other-languages and #languages
glossy marsh
I’m not sure if i’m allowed to ask sth about english but i’ll try my chance:
“Nah, i dont really want it.”
Does it sound like that i REALLY dont want or that i want but not that much
@loud carbon To make it about absolutely not wanting it:
I really don't want it.
dry lava
Sie ist nur/erst 13 Jahre alt
Bedeuten erst und **nur **heir das Gleiche?
glossy marsh
Yes.
dry lava
"Ich will in der Supermarkt los" - I want to go to the supermarket?
Or does it make sense, at all?
glossy marsh
It's grammatically wrong and makes no sense anyway.
fervent kernel
will is an accusative verb right?
dry lava
- "Ich will in den Supermarkt"
- "Ja, ich wollte auch gerade los"
dry lava
So basically, **los **means **going **in some sense?
Like
Does it make sense? "Los hierher"
plain umbra
Los doesn't mean "go" like "go to the store". It's more like "get going" or "get started".
Like when you start a race you say "Los!" because it indicates you're setting off, basically.
That's different from going to a location.
dry lava
Okay
Is it in some sense like "Come on"?
I mean, it can be used like so
Come on! Los!
plain umbra
Hmm, not sure about that.
sly ferry
Yup
sharp acorn
Los, sag es! works
Komm, sag es! as well
dry lava
Danke!
fierce bolt
wow just by reading questions im actually learning a lot
this is unexpected, a nice encounter for me
waxen vapor
@fierce bolt yeah, definitely worth reading, even backreading, both question channels!
abstract bluff
@dry lava 'das' applies to the entire sentence previously spoken, 'es' to the single thing in the previous sentence
dry lava
seit damals = since then?
**Tret **unserer Gruppe bei
oder
**Tritt **underer Gruppe bei
?
sharp acorn
Tritt unserer Gruppe bei
glossy marsh
Yes.
eternal linden
(the grammar isn't though)
that would be "Ich fand gestern in meinem Schrank deines Bruders Handy", or more conventionally "Ich fand gestern in meinem Schrank das Handy deines Bruders"
swift bough
@dry lava one verb i learned in Germany was „losfahren“ which is literally like hey we need to start driving
swift bough
Yeah that exists too
dry lava
Do they have "loslaufen", "losschwimmen"?
it would make sense, as well
Schwimmen wir los!
swift bough
At least, I don’t think the verb itself „losschwimmen“ is a thing but you could probably still say „Schwimmen wir los?“
Lol yeah okay that may be a bit far 
solemn pilot
All of those work, actually :)
"Lass uns bei 3 losschwimmen"
"Ich habe losgelacht"
You can put los- in front of lots of verbs
solemn pilot
Loslachen does have its own Duden entry :P
sharp acorn
so ganz plötzlich zu lachen anfangen
so Paaahahaha
sand vine
Ooo loslösen exists too
sand vine
Btw @swift bough ich habe heute noch in einem weiteren ge-Wort geraten
swift bough
Oh yea I know that one too, I knew I was forgetting like 7 of them 
„in Schwierigkeiten geraten“ is a good phrase to know @sand vine
sand vine
Yea. I learnt that word coz the newspaper always says Auto ausser kontrolle geraten
swift bough
joa das stimmt in Zeitungen sieht man schon oftmals das Wort geraten
dry lava
Was mögt ihr zum Essen am liebsten = Was mögt ihr am liebsten essen?
sand vine
curious to know the answer too^.
Is Was magst du essen = what do you want to eat?
and Was magst du zum Essen = what kind of food do you like?
(I know "magst du mit uns spielen?" means do you want to play with us and not do you like playing with us, but am unsure if the analogy carries over to the above)
worn halo
That's a great question I'd also like to know
glossy marsh
Was magst du Essen?
What do you like to eat?
Was magst du zum Essen?
What do you like with your meal?
@sand vine
long whale
curious to know the answer too^.
Is Was
magstmöchtest du essen = what do you want to eat?
and Wasmagst du zum Essenisst du gern? = what kind of food do you like?(I know "
magstMöchtest du mit uns spielen?" means do you want to play with us and not do you like playing with us, but am unsure if the analogy carries over to the above)
@sand vine
:)
If you do hear "Magst du + verb" it's either regional/dialect, or the speaker is about 5 years old. :)
dry lava
Wie soll man dann sagen: "What do you like to eat"?
worn halo
was isst du gern
sand vine
If you do hear "Magst du + verb" it's either regional/dialect, or the speaker is about 5 years old. :)
@long whale oh the guy is bavarian
dry lava
Was gefällt dir, zu essen?
long whale
Was gefällt dir, zu essen?
@dry lava No. See above. :)
long whale
If you do hear "Magst du + verb" it's either regional/dialect, or the speaker is about 5 years old. :)
sharp acorn
wow makes sense why ive always thought magst du +verb was fine, thankyou southern dialects
sand vine
nach 5 Jahre alt wurden sie mit einer Bussen verhängt
dry lava
fallen karma
Wir haben die Erfahrung gemacht, dass es in der Firma viele Allergiker gibt
I found this sentence in my Kursbuch and I can't make any sense of it and DeepL seems to translate it literally:
"We have made the experience that there are many allergy sufferers in the company"
which makes no sense. What does this sentence actually mean?
sharp acorn
it makes sense if you remove 'sind' it may have been a typo
Wir haben die Erfahrung gemacht, dass es in der Firma viele Allergiker gibt
Allergiker are people who are allergic to sth
so the deepL translation is accurate, put another way,
We made the experience that there are lots of people in the company with allergies.
fallen karma
I get the second part after the comma, but I don't understand what "Wir haben die Erfahrung gemacht" means in this case
and how it ties in with the second part of the sentence
sharp acorn
we experienced, we discovered / found out
plain umbra
I think maybe you would say "Our experience was that ..." in English?
Maybe it makes more sense then.
fallen karma
Yeah I guess so.
I was just not sure how "gemacht" ties in here but I guess it's just part of the phrase
plain umbra
Yeah.
eine Erfahrung machen = to have an experience
Don't worry about why it's machen and not some other verb. That's just an idiomatic thing.
sharp acorn
yes "Erfahrungen machen" is a set phrase
swift bough
Isn’t „Erfahrungen haben“ more common or is that different?
plain umbra
Not sure.
fallen karma
Yeah I get it now. Thanks for the help guys 👍
plain umbra
Np.
plain umbra
Same.
sharp acorn
Erfahrungen haben exists too it's just a different meaning , its like being experienced (in something)
swift bough
It sounds informal because „Erfahrungen sammeln“ seems to be the seen thing
Same thing*
fallen karma
If I were writing the sentence I would have chosen "erleben" myself.
swift bough
erleben already means by itself to experience tho
fallen karma
yeah I mean instead of the whole phrase
swift bough
And it’s also a bit different than „erfahren“
sharp acorn
wir haben erlebt, dass... would work well too yeah nice
"die Erfahrung gesammelt" doesnt work, it is only one Erfahrung
swift bough
Ah yes
fallen karma
I think "bemerkt" makes even more sense in this context
sharp acorn
Erfahrungen machen is definitely a set idiomatic phrase,
that means like , to have the experience / "in my experience..."
just google "ich habe die Erfahrung gemacht" and look at all the results....
it is a set phrase
probably used more in writing than in speech
maybethat is why you haven't encountered it
swift bough
probably used more in writing than in speech
That’s what I was hoping to hear because I personally say and hear way more often „meiner Erfahrung nach“ @sharp acorn
Because this is the first time I have ever even seen „Erfahrungen machen“
Didn’t know it existed :p
Thanks for the explanation
sand vine
My german teacher used to keep correcting all of us saying "ich hatte die Erfahrung .... tells story" said it's wrong and changed it to habe... gemacht
noble axle
Hello! When would people use "gewesen" and when would they use "war". What is the difference and which different sentences they're used in?
thorn pelican
war is the preterete form of sein (mostly seen in writing an in simple sentences using the past tense of sein.
gewesen is the partizip ii form used in perfect. so used in spoken german in some areas for past tense and other tenses such as passive and futur ii etc
pure compass
@swift bough that's odd, i hear Erfahrungen machen often and i think i learned it at a2 or so
swift bough
Base also hadn’t heard of it
swift bough
I just realized, I think it’s also just very possible that I learned it at one point, and then never heard or saw it again for years and just forgot that it even existed since people don’t really say it.
icy flax
the likelihood 2 find three variants in books 1800-2019: Erfahrung machen,Erfahrung sammeln,Erfahrung haben
Spoiler: the former is the most common one.
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?corpus=31&content=Erfahrung+machen%2CErfahrung+sammeln%2C+Erfahrung+haben&smoothing=3&year_end=2019&year_start=1800&direct_url=t1%3B%2CErfahrung machen%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2CErfahrung sammeln%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2CErfahrung haben%3B%2Cc0
swift bough
„meiner Erfahrung nach“ isn’t included tho
icy flax
B my guest: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?smoothing=3&corpus=31&year_end=2019&year_start=1800&content=Erfahrung+machen%2CErfahrung+sammeln%2CErfahrung+haben%2Cmeiner+Erfahrung+nach&direct_url=t1%3B%2CErfahrung machen%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2CErfahrung sammeln%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2CErfahrung haben%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cmeiner Erfahrung nach%3B%2Cc0
still not the most common out there, @swift bough . Meiner Erfahrung nach is gehobenes Deutsch...
swift bough
Bruh it’s so much prettier than Erfahrungen machen tho
Oh well
At least now I know
Still, nobody would raise an eyebrow just because I say „meiner Erfahrung nach“, I said that all the time in Germany
solid hull
they're obviously not gonna tell you to stop using it
waxen vapor
need help with precise understanding of this, deepl and google translate confused me further
ich würde vorschlagen dass wir beide Termine so einhalten und stattfinden lassen.
so, I understood that it probably means 'let's leave both appointments as they were originally', or more literary 'I'd propose that we keep both appointments and ??? ' no clue what 'stattfinden lassen' means
help please 🙂
swift bough
@solid hull they would though especially my language partner since that’s the whole point of having a language partner, to correct each other 
solid hull
but it's not incorrect so there's no need to tell you to stop using it
in fact it sounds of high register to them probably to what they would say
swift bough
Lol yeah but apparently it’s „gehoben“
swift bough
But that seems a bit exaggerated to me seeing as it’s all that I’ve ever heard
solid hull
hmm yeah true, same
that's also the only one it gives me for "in my experience.."
DeepL i mean
swift bough
Idk why but „Ich habe die Erfahrung gemacht, dass...“ just doesn’t sound super...clean? Idk
Maybe just because I’m not used to it
But also the word „machen“ already is super common and can replace so many more, more specific words, that it almost feels like it’s just an overuse of it
„Einen Kuchen machen“ bruh pls just say „backen“
swift bough
reintun is a beautifully crafted word
I didn’t really know it existed till I went to Germany because you never even write it
Usually it’s only spoken
solid hull
besonders wenn man im Bett liegt
waxen vapor
@solid hull got as a reply from my hearing aid fitter about our next appointments (my last proposal was to have two/both and asked him for opinion)
so I got both, right?
solid hull
yeah, honestly tho i would've expected a "sie" before stattfinden lassen, otherwise it kinda reads like lassen is also modifying einhalten
waxen vapor
I don't know who would modify who, he usually writes a bit simpler sentences 🤣
waxen vapor
I think he's amused with my learning German on the fly for our appointments so he might be pushing me 😄
waxen vapor
😄
waxen vapor
nope
icy flax
Lol yeah but apparently it’s „gehoben“
@swift bough unfortunately I can't back it up bc I just heard it from two professors. One german, the other brazilian but has his studies in germanistik and DaF.
Sometimes duden has those tags letting us know whether sth. is gehoben or not :(
We can always try @long whale too: do you find "meiner Erfahrung nach" gehobenes Deutsch?
I believe that we tend to sound very polite when we study german because we do not really learn ugs. from books, do we? There were only small notes about ugs. in the books I used and I remember just little: "affenstark" "ich kriege das oft gesagt, dass..."
What do you guys think?
waxen vapor
native Croatian, start speaking English when we moved here 3 years ago, and learning German on and off, depending what I need at the moment
which ends with me thinking in all three languages in the same sentence 😄
solid hull
oof... goodluck, looks like you're doing very well tho, weiter so 🙂
waxen vapor
😄
they say that some people learn to swim when they just throw them in the water, I guess it's similar with the languages - when you have no other choice to fall back to, you push yourself with what you have :D
or get lucky and find a Croatian/Serbian seller in the shop where you've just decided to buy bunch of furniture, that helps definitely 🤣
thanks for the explanations 🙂
solid hull
that's a great way of looking at it!
long whale
@icy flax No, I wouldn't say "meiner Erfahrung nach" is gehoben. Maybe "erfahrungsgemäß" is used a little more often in spoken German? Just a guess, though. Does that answer your question? And anyway, which expression would be used colloquially if "meiner Erfahrung nach" were gehoben?
sand vine
Is "in meiner erfahrung" natural or does that sound englishy?
long whale
It's Denglish. :) @sand vine
swift bough
Lol
Yeah actually I’ve never even heard a German say „in meiner Erfahrung“ and Germans love Denglisch, especially ones in my generation
It‘s good to know it’s not gehoben, as I thought, which is good, cuz I use it a lot 
stable pawn
Any substantial difference between Ausschnitt and Auszug?
(Specifically in the sense of an excerpt of, say, a book.)
long whale
Any substantial difference between Ausschnitt and Auszug?
@stable pawn Mm... When an author reads out loud bits from his new book, you could use both "Ausschnitt/e" and "Auszug/Auszüge". However, when talking about a text containing bits/excerpts taken from other books, I think "Auszug/Auszüge" is more frequently used. :)
stable pawn
Ach Danke schön!
cosmic wraithBOT
@waxen talon: This message was redirected here from #questions:
nickname573
plain umbra
faq swiss german
stoic mauveBOT
waxen talon
@plain umbra Danke!
light marsh
What is wrong with this sentence:
Was möchtest du mir zu sagen?
What would you like me to say?
glossy marsh
zu.
plain umbra
You have to careful when you try to translate an English sentence where you switch subjects mid-clause.
glossy marsh
Oh, wait.
tardy carbon
you translated it word by word, which simply won’t work here
just deleting the zu won’t make it work either
glossy marsh
What would you like me to say?
Was möchtest du, dass ich sage?
Yeah, I realised. I had
What do you want to say to me?
in mind.
plain umbra
In English, it's common to have clauses where you switch the person doing the action in the middle. But in German, you often can't do that. You have to make a new clause when a new person is doing a different action.
There's a few exceptions to that, but it's a good rule of thumb to go by as a beginner.
light marsh
Ah, so something with "Dass?"?
Was möchtest du, dass ich sage?
@glossy marsh Oh, okay. That works. Thanks!
dreamy cobalt
What is the difference between merken and bemerken?
glossy marsh
To remember and to notice.
dreamy cobalt
Thanks :))
fallow ledge
Specifically, sich (dativ) etwas merken is to remember
Die Bedeutung dieses Worts werde ich mir merken. (Ill remember the meaning of this word)
icy flax
What is the meaning of "Man merkt es..."?
strange sun
"you can tell" methinks
dry lava
Ich bin damit einverstanden oder Ich stimme dem zu - Was klingt besser und wird häufiger benutzt?
"I agree with this"
gaunt harbor
What is a good English-German online dictionary? I have been using word reference as one from English to French but it doesn't seem to be so good for English to German.
worn halo
plain umbra
Yeah, dict.cc is especially useful because it has buttons on the side for each word that link you directly to all the other common websites and their entries for that word.
waxen vapor
I've just checked dict.cc and compared to leo, and I definitely like leo more - it has declensions and conjugations for bunch of tenses
plus, nicer UI where I can clearly see the categories :D
but I guess it depends what you want
one cons it has is that it can't handle compound nouns (those from contracts and similar places)
then I just use deepl 😄
plain umbra
Yeah, if you are a beginner and rely a lot on declension/conjugation tables, it makes sense to use one that has those.
But I find that the times when I actually need something like that are pretty rare.
Usually only for words that are weird exceptions. And in those cases I usually prefer something like wiktionary, because it has the best layout, while still being fast and usually there are useful notes for weird words.
gaunt harbor
Thanks for the suggestions, I'll check them out
sinful flume
der Bedarf an Strom =Strombedard /der Bedard an essen=essenbedarf
sind sie gleich?
grammatik richtig
celest frost
*"Strombedarf
"Essensbedarf"
dry lava
okie, danke
Ich lerne Deutsch seit drei Jahren. Kann ich einfach sagen "Ich lerne Deutsch drei Jahren"?
proven sphinx
Nein, man braucht das "seit" da schon.
dry lava
Vielen Dank
dry lava
Ich war nicht schon mal in Berlin =? Ich war noch nie in Berlin
eternal linden
you don't use "schon mal" in a negated sentence
dry lava
Ach, klar. Danke!
velvet otter
Can someone help me please understand the usage of "davon"
swift bough
davon means „from/of that/it“ and you can also use it with verbs that require the preposition „von“ @velvet otter
velvet otter
Oh that makes sense! thank you!
trim cypress
@velvet otter Hi. I think the grammar topic you're missing on is „Pronominaladverbien”. Googling it will definitely give you useful results. It's better if you have a good understanding of prepositions, and verbs which require certain prepositions.
knotty adder
"1/2" is read "eins durch zwei"?
long whale
Yes - if it's 1 ÷ 2 @knotty adder :)
knotty adder
thanks Susana!
urban loom
If it’s a fraction, is it read as “ein halb”?
thorn pelican
just convert everything as decimals to cirumvent the problem
knotty adder
lol you assume i know how to read decimals in German
thorn pelican
null komma fünf
urban loom
I know ein drittel, ein viertel, ein fünftel usw.
I think you can’t say “ein zweitel”, can you? xd
thorn pelican
eine hälfte
glossy marsh
Colloquially, ein zwotel can be used.
urban loom
Alright, thanks!
long whale
I think you can’t say “ein zweitel”, can you? xd
@urban loom I suppose you could, but we don't, no. :)
tardy carbon
it’s definitely used in mathematical contexts
like, not really in everyday speech, but I would read 5/2 as “fünf zweitel”
@urban loom
eternal linden
Colloquially,
ein zwotelcan be used.
I've literally never heard anybody call it that
neither that nor ein Zweitel
you should avoid using that word
fathom roost
I need to write an email to a professor asking about a deadline. I have:
"Sehr geehrte Frau Prof. XYZ,
Ich habe den 30.08.2020 als Abgabetermin notiert. Ist dieser Termin richtig?
Mit freundlichen Grüßen, X"
Is this 'proper' enough and should i say something at the end like "I hope you have a nice week."
fathom roost
thanks! i have a habit of adding 'fluff' to my emails instead of just being straightforward
eternal linden
that might be considered nice in other languages, but German people are just very awkward and distanced
autumn sapphire
which is lucky for me, since i have kind of an instinct of adding fluff but i can never figure out what to write exactly, and the end result is usually super cold and corporate-sounding
eternal linden
perfect 
fervent kernel
guys what is your level of german language, do you have any tips?
fervent kernel
guys what is your level of german language, do you have any tips?
@fervent kernel
I'm a native speaker. are you new to learning german?
Hi, thank you for answering, yes, i am new, i only got in touch with german with duolingo and my parents live in germany
I see. Well you're probably best off using the command >faq beginner in the #botchannel channel.
thanks, i ll jump into it
Np
serene birch
Die Operation war kompliziert:
Ja, es war kompliziert, aber in dem moment fühlte ich mich nicht ganz gut.
Any errors? 😄
delicate tiger
Ja, sie war kompliziert,... (-> die Operation); there isn't a contrast to use aber
worn halo
maybe they like complicated things
swift bough
maybe they like complicated things
Yeah but Directing is right, I think that „und“ makes more sense there than „aber“
dry lava
Ich bin daran gewohnt =? I'm used to it
swift bough
yes but it's spelt "gewöhnt"
swift bough
Gewöhn dich einfach mal dran
fathom inlet
Nachdem Renate bei ihrer Gastfamilie angekommen ist, dann hat sie die Mitbringsel verteilt
Renate hat ihre Gastfamilie die Mitbringsel verteilt, nachdem sie angekommen ist
- Which is correct?
glossy marsh
yes but it's spelt "gewöhnt"
@swift bough Jein.
Ich bin es gewohnt.
Ich habe mich daran gewöhnt.
Ich bin daran gewohnt =? I'm used to it
@dry lava You mixed the usage of gewohnt and gewöhnt. See my comments above.
Man gewöhnt sich (Verb), damit es gewohnt wird (Adjektiv).
Gewöhnen = familiarise
Gewohnt = familiar
dry lava
Thank you very mch!
fathom inlet
But there r still problems
@pale moat really? :((
pale moat
Fairly sure
fathom inlet
the sentences are wrong?
swift bough
@😎Nathaniel👀 Jein.
ik but purely for the construction of "an etw gewöhnt sein" is what they meant I think though (because the sentence they wrote was "Ich bin daran gewohnt") but it is still good that you also explained it a bit further @glossy marsh
white scarab
If you want to make it grammatically correct there need to be proper tenses too
swift bough
Nachdem Renate bei ihrer Gastfamilie angekommen war, hat sie die Mitbringsel dann an ihre Gastfamilie verteilt.
This would be how you could say it, but tbh I wouldn't really use "verteilen" there, rather "geben". I am not 100% sure if verteilen sounds the most natural there to be honest. I mean even in English it would sound a little odd to me to say I "distributed" the Souvenirs to the family
glossy marsh
@pale moat really? :((
@fathom inlet
- Remove
dann, you've already specified the when - Her family, he arrived? Why switch the person like that and who is he?
swift bough
I think dann sounds fine if you just move it's position in the sentence
glossy marsh
Nachdem Renate bei ihrer Gastfamilie angekommen war, hat sie die Mitbringsel dann an ihre Gastfamilie verteilt.
This would be how you could say it, but tbh I wouldn't really use "verteilen" there, rather "geben". I am not 100% sure if verteilen sounds the most natural there to be honest. I mean even in English it would sound a little odd to me to say I "distributed" the Souvenirs to the family
@swift bough Less distributed and more "handed out", soverteilenis fine.
white scarab
If one sentence is in perfect the other goes into plusquam
If one is Präsens, the other is in perfekt
white scarab
My horrible language feeling wouldn't use verteilen there because it seems like giving stuff around like in some army lager or meds in hospital
:D
fathom inlet
I think 'verteilen' is more specific
swift bough
not at all synonymous but similar
white scarab
I mean, verteilen works, but it's meh, when I translate into my language it sounds quite weird even if correct
swift bough
Same
in english it would be weird to say that you distributed souvenirs to a family
If anything you distribute some sort of food or medical aid
fathom inlet
In spanish sounds normal, 'repartir'
white scarab
But well, the lack of plusquam hurts more
At least if you don't live in a place that never heard of it
:D
swift bough
Actually as far as I know Plusquam and Perfekt don't really get distinguished anymore anyways because the Präteritum itself is not distinguished from the Perfekt (except for a handful of verbs yeah yeah yeah)
and to build Plusquam the helping verbs are used in Präteritum
glossy marsh
But as far as I know verteilen also can still mean "to distribute"
@swift bough It can be both.
swift bough
That is what I thought
glossy marsh
My horrible language feeling wouldn't use verteilen there because it seems like giving stuff around like in some army lager or meds in hospital
@white scarab Presents almost always useverteilen.
fathom inlet
So:
Nachdem Renate bei ihrer Gastfamilie angekommen war, hat sie die Mitbringsel verteilt
Renate hat ihre Gastfamilie die Mitbringsel verteilt, nachdem sie angekommen war.
Is it ok now? xd
glossy marsh
Second one is wrong.
swift bough
the second one is missing a preposition
glossy marsh
Renate hat an ihre Gastfamilie ...
swift bough
nom you were right
pale moat
Yay
swift bough
good job boi
in English it sounds strange to me (at least as a bilingual, I think some monolinguals would not even blink an eye) but in this context you don't think that "verteilen" sounds weird? would "geben" sound more natural or not necessarily? @glossy marsh
glossy marsh
Again, no, since Mitbringsel are presents.
autumn sapphire
why would how it sounds in english have any impact at all on the choice of verb in german
swift bough
Well in this case it does so 🤷♂️ @autumn sapphire
pale moat
Maybe it technically shouldnt but it sometimes does for me
swift bough
but also the word means more than one thing as casca said
glossy marsh
Always think of it as meaning "to hand out", it will seem more natural that way.
Even the UN peace troops hand out supplies.
Santa hands out presents.
swift bough
the only time it would not sound strange in English would be if like multiple families were in a room receiving them
glossy marsh
Oprah hands out cars.
autumn sapphire
Judge Dredd hands out justice
pale moat
Casca hands out german knowledge
fathom inlet
Oh, now I realize
Renate hat die Mitbringsel verteilt, nachdem sie bei ihrer Gastfamilie angekommen war.
swift bough
yes but it is not quite the same as distribute which was the only definition of verteilen that i was aware of
glossy marsh
That works.
fathom inlet
It is correct now right?
glossy marsh
Yes.
mental sparrow
ist es normal Afrikaner "die Farbigen" zu nennen auf Deutsch. wird es etwa falsch klingen?
glossy marsh
It's quite dated and offensive.
modest oyster
What is the difference between einholen and beschaffen?
mental sparrow
i think one is procure the other is obtain
but not sure which is which 🙂
heavy stratus
Is there a difference between an ü and u? I can't seem to hear it
autumn sapphire
say ee but round your mouth. That's ü
(one of the two german ü sounds)
whistling seems like a weird way to put it
sand vine
the whistling method works for me
I didn't know there were two ü sounds, whats the other?
the whistling method works for me
@sand vine you try to whistle but procrastinate and force an oo out. that's ü
autumn sapphire
it's similar. ü is either [ʏ] or [y:]
[ʏ] is a rounded version of the i in "mit", [y:] is a rounded version of the ie in Miete
or m__i__tten vs. m__ee__ting for english words
heavy stratus
Hm okay, I'll give these suggestions a try. Danke!
sand vine
could you give two examples ü words with the two different pronunciations?
autumn sapphire
müssen vs. Mühle
autumn sapphire
Looking at this I almost feel like a native german speaker might not know this while being able to distinguish it sub consciously lmao
@fervent kernel well toddlers don't get any phonetics and IPA lessons in kindergarten so i'd be inclined to believe you there ;)
it's short and long?
@sand vine yes. In general, german (as many other germanic languages) makes long vowels closed and short vowels open
sand vine
I need to start reading IPA
autumn sapphire
so that you also have a closed o in Kohle but an open one in Kotten
dry lava
Ich habe aufgestanden - I stood up
Ich bin aufgestanden - I got up, woke up
Stimmt's?
thorn pelican
ne. beide sind mit sein
dry lava
Okie, danke
autumn sapphire
"aufverstehen" existiert nicht
thorn pelican
@autumn sapphire where on earth did you get aufverstehen from?
dry lava
Idk. They're weird
near folio
hmm
autumn sapphire
proven non-insane once again 😌
keen pulsar
could you give two examples ü words with the two different pronunciations?
@sand vine füllen - to fill, fühlen - to feel afaik
short vs long
thorn pelican
may i recommend the book/audio combination sprechen hören sprechen to help you hear the differences. it's available for loan for free on the goethe online library
sand vine
Yea i guess i was subconsciously aware of that; i didnt know long and short vowels were considered different pronunciations actl
keen pulsar
ah welp their qualities are a bit different besides just length, and there are minimal pairs so haha
sand vine
What are 'minimal pairs'?
keen pulsar
pairs that are different only due to one sound
so füllen vs fühlen would be a minimal pair, the only different between the two is short vs long vowel
sand vine
I see, guess notating the distinction is more important that i imagined.
autumn sapphire
germans would probably understand you just fine as long as the vowel length is correct
but it sounds a bit off and it can be confusing in fast or unclear speech if you don't get the quality right
i come from a language that has neither of those sounds and doesn't have vowel length, but somehow it became second nature to me, so anyone can do it :>
fervent kernel
Herzichen Glückwunsch is in the accusative case right?
keen pulsar
I think so, yes
outer hemlock
Hallo Leute!
ich habe eine Frage: Was ist der Unterschied zwischen "schicken" und "verschicken"?
naive topaz
What's the difference between das and dass?
thorn pelican
das is an article (and relative pronoun), dass is a conjunction
naive topaz
Thank you
long whale
ich habe eine Frage: Was ist der Unterschied zwischen "schicken" und "verschicken"?
@outer hemlock "schicken" needs a direct object and either an indirect object or a location/direction or both (Ich schicke meiner Mutter ein Paket; Ich habe ein Paket nach Polen geschickt). "verschicken" is mostly used when lots of things/letters/parcels are sent, it's more like "to send out", and it works with just a the direct object, or even without any object/location/direction (Die Briefe wurden verschickt; Zu Weihnachten verschicke ich viele Pakete). :)
dry lava
Er ist, erhlich gesagt, schlecht - Brauche ich da Kommas?
long whale
No. You can use them, but you don't have to. And since the sentence is so short, IMO it looks better without them. But there's a typo in "ehrlich".
dry lava
Afaik, you germans don't really put commans. Only before conjugations
Or, so to say, it's not really common to put commans in German
sly ferry
What
dry lava
WAIT
sly ferry
German uses way more commas than English 
sharp acorn
conjugations
conjunctions?
dry lava
yes
swift bough
Or, so to say, it's not really common to put commans in German
People are just lazy when they are texting
sharp acorn
commas are a reading aid.
They can help to make long sentences more clear. In German you use commas to separate clauses, to help readers understand what is happening, but they can be omitted when the sentences are short and don't need any aid.
long whale
@dry lava You're very welcome. 👀
hollow ether
Die sind Synonyme meines Wissens nach
dry lava
"Ich muss erst ins Klo gehen" - in diesem Fall, ist "erst" gekürz von "zuerst"?
eternal linden
yes
dry lava
Danke!
Verwendet man "hinausfinden" statt "herausfinden", wenn man sagt "ich fand hinaus, dass...", zum Beispiel ?
dry lava
I learned like if you're saying from your perspective, then you should use "hin". But as far as I can see, there are some certain verbs which are fixed with "her"
proven sphinx
Yeah, it's just that only "herausfinden" can mean "find out" as in "to discover".
dry lava
Okay, thanks!
proven sphinx
That reminds me of an ad in English that read "Come in and find out" being somehow interpreted by German readers as meaning "Come in and find your way out." LOL.
dry lava
haha
proven sphinx
English is often used in ads, but not everyone actually understands them, apparently.
dry lava
Sie geht hinauf - does it work?
or only herauf?
ah, wait. it depends on whether she's coming up to me or just like I'm an onlooker
ah, no
If like she's near to me , can I say "Komm hinauf"?
proven sphinx
Eh, not really.
proven sphinx
Yeah.
keen pulsar
geh hin, komm her
keen pulsar
yeah, or I open the door for you and you’re a guest to my house, I’d say “komm herein”
dry lava
ah, okay. So "hin" is never used in the third person
proven sphinx
What do you mean?
dry lava
only from your persective
What do you mean?
@proven sphinx Like if I'm an onlooker and being imperitive
proven sphinx
Er geht die Treppe hinauf.
It works perfectly fine in the third person.
proven sphinx
Like, you're seeing him go up the stairs.
keen pulsar
afaik “hin” would be “he went up the stairs (away from me)”
proven sphinx
So you say: "Er geht die Treppe hinauf."
icy flax
hin - getting further from the speker
her - gettin closer to the speaker
dry lava
And only if he's coming up to me, I say "herauf"?
keen pulsar
ex: der Apfel fiel hinunter - the apple fell (away from me; I might be on the tree)
der Apfel fiel herunter - the apple fell (towards me)
dry lava
hin - getting further from the speker
her - gettin closer to the speaker
@icy flax If it's parallel 🧐🤔🧐🤔
dry lava
yes
proven sphinx
You can't both get further and closer to the speaker. Kek.
icy flax
Parallel? (2) [I felt I was the only one not getting it, thx, Unicorn]
proven sphinx
I think he means it like if you didn't change your distance to the speaker.
dry lava
yeah
icy flax
then would b um
proven sphinx
@dry lava I don't think there's a word for that. Unless you're literally going in circles around someone, you're always either getting closer or further away from the speaker.
icy flax
can't you use "um", Unicorn?
proven sphinx
And if you are going in circles, it would be "Er geht um mich herum".
And "hinum" doesn't exist in this case. Kek.
swift bough
Wait does hinum exist even at all
proven sphinx
It doesn't.
proven sphinx
Trust me, it doesn't exist, and if you see it, someone simply made it up.
keen pulsar
hinum on forvo for swabian german lol
proven sphinx
Well, maybe it exists in some dialects. I wouldn't know.
dry lava
Like, imagine this situation. From the position 1 to 2, the man shortened the distance so he got closer to me, but then turned on his left (2 to 3).
Do I still say "Er geht hinaus"?
swift bough
Oh yeah have I mentioned my last name is literally a word from Swabian German, I‘m proud of it
icy flax
https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/hinum HAHAHA
exists, but is marked as "veraltet". Gebrauch (duden): 18./19. Jahrhundert
proven sphinx
@dry lava You'd just say "Er geht weg".
swift bough
Outdated words = still interesting
dry lava
@dry lava You'd just say "Er geht weg".
@proven sphinx Is it impossible to use her, hin?
proven sphinx
Only if you're talking about a specific place he's going to.
"Er geht zu seinem Auto hin."
proven sphinx
That only applies if you exit or enter a building, vehicle etc.
dry lava
yes, so that's what i wanted to clarify. "He is going out" - "Er geht... (?)"
swift bough
That’s probably very often omitted though, the „hin“ in the sentence just makes it less ambiguous
proven sphinx
@dry lava "Er geht heraus."
"Er geht hinaus" also works, but it sounds a bit more poetic, I guess?
"Er geht hinaus in die offene Welt, um allen zu zeigen, was er drauf hat."
swift bough
Also people commonly say „raus“ e.g. „er geht raus“
proven sphinx
Yep.
dry lava
no, we didnt chat
proven sphinx
https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/hinaus
Maybe this will help.
proven sphinx
Duden doesn't make any reasonable distinction between "hinaus" and "heraus", actually.
swift bough
It’s the same thing with
die Treppe hinaufgehen vs nach oben gehen, the first one is more literary
die Treppe hinabgehen vs runtergehen/kommen
dry lava
but then again: if like we're about to get into vehicle, why can't I use "hinein", if , following the logic, it means "going away from the speaker"?
"Komm hinein"
dry lava
but it's just to clarify, because i want to figure out the hin,her thing
proven sphinx
I think it's easier for you to see "herein" and "hinein" as synonyms.
According to Duden, they basically are, apparently?
dry lava
So i can say "Komm hinein"?
proven sphinx
You could, yes. But "Komm rein" would be far more common.
proven sphinx
Komm hinein has a somewhat poetic sound to me, really.
swift bough
They have slightly different connotations though which are hard to explain but I understand it in my head
proven sphinx
Like something you'd hear in a fairy tale.
swift bough
Grammatically I mean
proven sphinx
I don't think there's an actual difference between "herein" and "hinein".
swift bough
When you have a very good grasp of „her“ and „hin“ it makes more sense
dry lava
But if somebody comes towards my position, then I definitely have to say using "her"?
"Er kommt herauf" - "He's coming up to me"
swift bough
like alright I will try explaining it
dry lava
haha sorry
proven sphinx
Not even Duden wants to help me.
You know, the thing is that most people just use "rein" for both, so most native speakers don't even have a good grasp on that distinction.
dry lava
What about formal writing?
proven sphinx
Well, the basic distinction is what I mentioned above.
swift bough
komm mal herein —> refers to the perspective of the speaker, come into the car where I am
komm mal hinein —> come into the car from your perspective (the passenger), the movement made before actually entering
proven sphinx
hinein = motion away from you
herein = motion towards you
swift bough
Yeah purple
keen pulsar
komm ma rein gang
swift bough
People only actually verbally say „rein“ and „herein“
proven sphinx
"Er geht ins Haus meines Nachbarn hinein."
"Er kommt in mein Haus herein."
swift bough
At least in the context of like a person
solid hull
imma change that 😎
swift bough
Like even with a cable or something I’ve only ever heard „, reinstecken“ (like when my host brother showed me how to reset the WiFi because it was always being shitty)
dry lava
Yeah, that's how I understood it earlier. But then the thing started messing up like: "Komm hinein" and "Komm herein" are the same, the second is just more poetic.
Before that, I considered it like if I'm in the room , so it's "herein". If we're both outside a room and I say "come in", it's "Komm hinein"
proven sphinx
No, it's "hinein" which sounds more poetic, since it basically doesn't come up in natural conversation.
swift bough
^
proven sphinx
Like, if I hear "hinein", I immediately think of something like "das Rotkäppchen ging ins Häuschen der Großmutter hinein" or whatever.
swift bough
Even when it’s not a person you usually say „reintun“ or „reinstecken“
That sounds pretty gross somehow „tue‘s dann hinein“
proven sphinx
Yeah, I know what you mean.
proven sphinx
Mach dir aber keinen Kopf. Wie gesagt, du wirst es nur selten brauchen müssen.
solid hull
gewöhnen
proven sphinx
Nee, nicht wirklich.
dry lava
nicht "to get used to"
proven sphinx
Sag einfach: "Ich muss es üben".
dry lava
okie
swift bough
as for the hinab/hinauf thing I didn’t even really know/realize it’s really just a literary thing now till I asked my tutor in Germany about them, and I never even came across them at all in Germany other than reading something once, either that or I just knew they existed but never knew how to use em, so I asked him about them
Germans have it very simplified in speech
solid hull
das ist schade dass niemand sie im Alltag benutzt
proven sphinx
Das Deutsche ist ja sowieso schon kompliziert genug, Alter.
swift bough
dry lava
as for the hinab/hinauf thing I didn’t even really know/realize it’s really just a literary thing now till I asked my tutor in Germany about them, and I never even came across them at all in Germany other than reading something once, either that or I just knew they existed but never knew how to use em, so I asked him about them
@swift bough You just have never climbed up the hills.
swift bough
Ja aber Fornoughting gefallen die komplizierten Sachen
Wym?
Oh wait I think I know what you mean
dry lava
Othrwise, you'd say like "Ich steige hinauf"
swift bough
No you normally just say „ich geh den Berg hoch/runter“
dry lava
proven sphinx
Yeah, that works too.
swift bough
Yup
proven sphinx
Yeah.
dry lava
it's confusing
proven sphinx
Rauf and runter.
swift bough
It’s the same thing for when you go downstairs so if anything it’s actually easier imo
Hey Nate komm mal runter
Nate come downstairs
proven sphinx
Exactly.
proven sphinx
And "runter" can be both "hinunter" and "herunter".
dry lava
Ah, then it's understandable
proven sphinx
Just like "rauf" can be both "hinauf" and "herauf".
dry lava
Yeah, don't proceed
swift bough
It comes from „unter“ which literally means „under“
proven sphinx
gebe
dry lava
no, gehe
proven sphinx
If you're talking about a glass of water.
dry lava
no!
proven sphinx
Yeah, then it doesn't make sense at all.
dry lava
I'm going over the water?
proven sphinx
Ich gehe über das Wasser.
swift bough
I think you could say „Ich quere das Wasser über“? But tbh I’ve only heard that in the context of a bridge
Not a river
dry lava
cross?
proven sphinx
Nate, it's "überQUEREN". It's not stressed on the first syllable.
swift bough
Wait a second is that even separable
proven sphinx
Yeah.
dry lava
Like if i'm at the first coast, and somebody is at the second one
Can I say "Komm rüber"?
proven sphinx
Yep.
swift bough
Lol that was definitely a brain fart from me ups I knew that
proven sphinx
Well, "Komm rüber" is often used as a synonym for "Komm her", really.
dry lava
or if there's some obstacle
can I say "Komm rüber"
Well, "Komm rüber" is often used as a synonym for "Komm her", really.
@proven sphinx Ah
I see then
proven sphinx
Hey, komm mal rüber! = Hey, come over here!
proven sphinx
You're very welcome, as always.
swift bough
Wait a question just occurred to me purple. Is there a difference between „da/dort drüber“ and „dahinten“? Actually when I really think about it I haven’t ever heard someone actually say „dahinten“
solid hull
da closer, dort farther imo
proven sphinx
Dort drüber? You mean "dort drüben"?
proven sphinx
But yeah, what For said is right.
swift bough
Well no that wasn’t my question tho, I know that part already
I meant like I definitely hear da/dort drüben in speech but not dahinten. I‘m just aware that they both exist
proven sphinx
Hmm, I don't know why you've never anyone say "dahinten", but it simply means that it's behind something and it's pretty close.
swift bough
That part makes sense
But in the dictionary it says it can also mean the same thing as da drüben
solid hull
ive never seen dort hinten, i wonder if it exists?
proven sphinx
While "dort drüben" doesn't have any implication of someone being behind something.
@solid hull Hmm, you're right.
"dahinten" would be used in that case as well.
dort/da drüben = over there
dahinten = over there (behind something)
swift bough
I mean I lived there for a quite a while but I can’t recall anyone ever actually saying it probably because they just never needed the word when they were with me
proven sphinx
"back there" might be the best translation for "dahinten".
He's back there.
Er ist dahinten.
solid hull
would da drüben imply for you that you can see it from where you are, whereas "dahinten" wouldn't?
swift bough
If there’s like a crowd of people and I am pointing to someone at the back of the crowd do you think dahinten makes most sense?
proven sphinx
He's "behind" something as in something is preventing you from being able to see him.
Not to be confused with "dahinter", of course.
swift bough
I know words that are rare a lot of people „shouldn’t worry about“ but I think it’s fair to worry now mostly about very very small differences at my level, so that I can be just that much more precise in speaking and also writing.
proven sphinx
Yeah, I think at C level you should start worrying about nuances like that.
swift bough
I always am asking these questions that you normally don’t find in a grammar book
proven sphinx
And it's good for me, since it makes me think about things I usually wouldn't think about, and since I'm studying to become a translator, such nuances mean everything.
swift bough
Lmao actually this was really cool but in my advanced German class in Germany we had an entire unit just discussing Jugendsprache and we got tested on it
Well ok it was a quiz but still
proven sphinx
The very notion of someone getting sentences like "Ey, Alda. Was geht ab?" in an exam cracks me up.
solid hull
a translator?? shit episch bruder viel Erfolg dabei, im the worst translator there is so if you can preisgeben sum secrets on how to translate effectively id be dankbar therefore
dry lava
Just to clarify if I got it right:
"I'm used to such questions" =? "Ich habe mich an diese Fragen gewöhnt"
dry lava
wtf
swift bough
And it's good for me, since it makes me think about things I usually wouldn't think about, and since I'm studying to become a translator, such nuances mean everything.
Hey man good luck with that btw, are you trying to do it in America?
solid hull
isnt it gewohnt tho
solid hull
no, gewöhnt is the past participle
swift bough
Ich bin dran gewöhnt
solid hull
gewohnt*
proven sphinx
Yeah, Nate is right this time.
solid hull
gimme as ec
proven sphinx
Ich bin es gewohnt vs Ich bin daran gewöhnt
swift bough
Maybe I misunderstood Fornoughting idk
solid hull
proven sphinx
Yep.
swift bough
Ich bin es gewohnt
solid hull
oh nvm true i forread myself
proven sphinx
Ich bin es gewohnt, früh aufzustehen.
Ich habe mich daran gewöhnt, früh aufzustehen.
proven sphinx
Yeah.
swift bough
Hey purple btw random question, how did you get so good at Standard German, because idk it really seems like (from my limited perspective) that a lot of Swiss aren’t that good at it
solid hull
purple Swiss??
proven sphinx
If you grow up watching cartoons and series and movies in Standard German, read comics and books in Standard German, and are taught always in Standard German at school, then how wouldn't you get good at it?
Sure, some people still suck at it, but they can speak it alright.
swift bough
Haha no clue, but I have met some people on discord from Switzerland who always said that they struggle with Standard German a lot
proven sphinx
Their passive understanding is just as good as that of someone who was born in Germany, but at times they might not be able to speak it quite as fluently as a German person.
swift bough
They just meant speaking though I am sure
proven sphinx
Yeah, I'm sure they did.
swift bough
That seems to always be the hardest part for literally anyone
proven sphinx
Swiss people don't like speaking High German. Kek.
proven sphinx
They can do it, but they struggle with it a bit.
swift bough
Some people probably like other dialects even though most people around them don't
proven sphinx
But even with the thickest of accents, their grammar and choice of vocabulary will leave you with no doubt that they really are technically native speakers.
At worst, they speak slowly, but with perfect vocabulary and grammar.
Well, as perfect as you can get for an average native speaker. Kek.
swift bough
I tell everyone this but it's my dream to live in Bavaria for a while, learn Bavarian really well, then go to my friends from Lower Saxony and speak to them in Bavarian just to confuse them, I figure it would be funny asf since I am an American
Although, it depends on the variant of Bavrian it is, some of them are harder to understand, some are not so bad
proven sphinx
Swiss people are taught to speak "as it's written", so it's possible that Swiss people speaking High German would use complicated constructions that German people wouldn't normally use when speaking.
proven sphinx
Yeah, they often pronounce the E as an actual E, rather than a schwa.
So "haben" is pronounced fully, instead of German people's tendency to say "ham".
The H in "gehen" might be pronounced, instead of saying "gehn" as most Germans pronounce it.
And so and so forth. That's what I mean by "speak it as it's written".
swift bough
hmm yeah it really is pronounced like ham....sometimes when they speak slow you might make out "habn" but it really is not fully pronounced no, it's swallowed a lot because it just flows better
solid hull
gotta love schwas
proven sphinx
But again, there is a lot of individual variation within Swiss speakers, even for speakers from the same region.
Generally, the more educated a person is, the more their way of speaking will approach that of a German person.
That is especially true for journalists in Swiss news, who might sound almost indistinguishable from Germans.
In other places, they always retain at least some of their accent.
swift bough
I like swiss accents in standard German though, it almost just sounds more exotic in a way, at least from my point of view
proven sphinx
Even the official football/soccer commentator speaks High German with a very German-like accent.
An example.
He does have somewhat of an accent, but it's very subdued for Swiss standards.
He does roll his Rs, but there are many people who don't.
dry lava
We have a meeting of our colleagues
Kann ich dafür "Treffung" statt "Besprechung" benutzen?
Sowas "Wir haben die Treffung unserer Mitarbeiter"
swift bough
The rolled R makes it sound immediately so much different than what I am used to though, that by itself is like one of the most obvious things showing he has an accent
proven sphinx
das Treffen
dry lava
Kann ich dann das Treffen verwenden statt "Besprechung"?
proven sphinx
Well, Besprechung is more concrete than Treffen. It means you're actually going to be discussing something.
swift bough
Besprechung comes from the verb besprechen which means "to dicuss" whereas "Treffen" obviously is from treffen which just means to meet
but you could be meeting for many other reasons
not necessarily to discuss something
proven sphinx
@swift bough The neutral "voiceover" in documentaries and such always sound very German, though.
Talking about Swiss documentaries, obviously.
dry lava
Is there any hint which tells you where to add "-ung" and where to leave it as it is?
"vetrauen" - "das Vetrauen"
but
"erkennen" - "die Erkennung"
proven sphinx
I think it's just one of those things that you have to learn by heart.
dry lava
swift bough
Well there is a way to explain it but I don't remember the exact terminology
keen pulsar
I make that mistake too hahahah
just assuming adding -ung, -keit/-heit to random words
proven sphinx
You can make a noun of almost every verb, but then it just becomes the act of doing that verb.
das Machen, das Tun, das Schlafen, das Öffnen usw.
swift bough
keep in mind that "das Erkennen" also exists
it's not easy to put into words how it works
I mean the difference lies in the grammar and how it gets used and not really the meaning
dry lava
das Erkennen der Kriminellen ist wichtig
äääh
How does one say "a criminal"
Krimineller
swift bough
ein Verbrecher
dry lava
das Erkennen der Verbrecher ist wichting
swift bough
des Verbrechers*
dry lava
No, like multiple
swift bough
I have never even heard of the word Krimineller so idk if there is real difference
dry lava
no, between die Erkennung and das Erkennen
swift bough
well, "das Erkennen" there is like the action of recognizing the criminals, but "die Erkennung" is just the recognition by itself
dry lava
ah it's like to say
recognition of criminals is importans vs recognizing of criminals is important
does it make diffeerence in english?
swift bough
I don't think you can translate it with just one word 
das Erkennen der Verbrecher = the process/act of recognizing criminals
die Erkennung der Verbrecher = the recognition of criminals
I would say
solid hull
Das Erkennen der Verbrecher - recognizing criminals
Die Erkennung der Verbrecher - the recognition of criminals
fuck von den tho
swift bough
Lmao we wrote the exact same thing for Erkennung
solid hull
lol
swift bough
Fornoughting is also correct but I was trying to make it a bit more specific so that it is not confusing
solid hull
Waffenbruder, whatever a native speaker says, never use von to sub the genitive, do not let the genitive die
sonst wirst du ein Verbrecher
swift bough
Lol
dry lava
Oh, shoot. I thought it should be even in english like "The **recognizing **of criminals"
swift bough
Yes
It's fine
But my example is just a bit more.....descriptive
like you can think of how "das Erkennen" and "erkennen" are actually the same word, but one of them is just nominalized. It functions as a noun but a verb at the same time.
dry lava
This is fine, as well
"Das Erkennen der Verbrecher" - "The recognizing of ciminals"
"Die Erkennung der Verbrecher" - "The reconginition of criminals"
It explains
Anyways, I got it
solid hull
Das Erkennen von Verbrechern in unseren Nachbarschaften ist uns sehr wichtig. Bitte die Polizei anrufen wenn Sie jemanden beim Verbrechen begehen erwischen
would say on a billboard maybe, but with better German of course 
swift bough
Idk if that would go on an actual billboard
Usually billboards are not for law enforcement
that is what I mean
dry lava
I guess, since we imply not "the criminals" but just "criminals", it's impossible to use Genitive