general-2

[hot cloak]

then there's me

I feel like I dickhead when I correct people's English

and do it anyway

I endure pain in the name of education!

[ocean robin]

LOL

[red pewter]

Nichts macht mehr Spaß als Flappy Sätze übersetzen zusehen :?

i'm nice in correcting english, but not TOO nice. The graceful balance of an ESL teacher.

[stark drift]

Nichts macht mehr Spaß als Flappy Sätze übersetzen zusehen

Can somebody translate

;-;

;__;

[fair iron]

Nothing is more enjoyable than watching Flappy translate sentences.

[stark drift]

Thanks

[red pewter]

we've come full circle

[true fractal]

So it's correct?

[ivory jolt]

now translate casca's sentence

[red pewter]

i translate english to german, someone asks for the english translation of my german

[true fractal]

Otherwise you'll have to translate it incorrectly too

[red pewter]

@stark drift don't learn from that please

[ivory jolt]

casca is clearly implying it was correct, being a misterious man he is

[red pewter]

it's correct?!?

[pine ginkgo]

no

[ivory jolt]

personally i'm not so sure

[quasi merlin]

It's not correct.

[red pewter]

D:

[quasi merlin]

I'm quoting myself: >Also, nominalization or more clauses

[fair iron]

I was implying no such thing.

[ivory jolt]

find a different approach to the sentence, think german

[red pewter]

i don't know what you mean

[ivory jolt]

like, a comma

germans love commas

[ocean robin]

,

free one

[whole rapids]

what a generous soul you are

[red pewter]

Nichts macht mehr Spaß, als Flappy Sätze übersetzen zusehen

[viscid cape]

-tackles Flappo and stares at her- ö_ö

Hello everyone

[red pewter]

hello more friends

[true fractal]

I'm going to, start using commas, everywhere, for no reason, when speaking other languages.

[red pewter]

😦

[ocean robin]

Why, hello Krypti.

[red pewter]

uh

[viscid cape]

So

EXERCISES

[red pewter]

Should I just assume it's correct now? 😄

[viscid cape]

No idea :v

[pine ginkgo]

no

[red pewter]

everyone stopped talking. did they give up on me?

[true fractal]

is it übersetzt?

[pine ginkgo]

krypti, you do it

[viscid cape]

I do what

I don't know the exercisez

[cold vessel]

Guide her to correct her mistakes, presumably

[red pewter]

"nothing is more fun than watching flappy translate sentences"

[viscid cape]

Oh okay

What have you got thus far

[red pewter]

Nichts macht mehr Spaß, als Flappy Sätze übersetzen zusehen

[tribal warren]

After she's done, can I ask something?

[viscid cape]

Why zusehen?

Sure

[tribal warren]

I don't want my questions to spoil, but I'm eager to know something

Okay

[red pewter]

because watching?

[true fractal]

is just sehen better?

[hot cloak]

zusehen is good

[viscid cape]

The problem isn't the verb, but its form

What form is it in?

[red pewter]

okay watching is a gerund

and I have no freaking clue how to handle gerunds so i left it in its infinitive

[viscid cape]

German has no gerund though

[ocean robin]

^

[fair iron]

Zusehen sounds wrong to me.

[ivory jolt]

DOCH

[ocean robin]

Oh, so there's another mistake that I wanted to put at first.

[fair iron]

Wait.

🤔

[red pewter]

zuzusehen O_O

[hot cloak]

👏

[ocean robin]

is this spoil

[viscid cape]

-spanks Casca-

[fair iron]

I forgot what Flappy wrote, sorry. ^^

[ocean robin]

Yeah bell, that's it.

[fair iron]

But zusehen still sounds wrong to me.

[ivory jolt]

Gerund is actually one of the answers to this problem

so there is "German gerund" but its not called gerund

[ocean robin]

I love this verb so much. It gives zuzusehen. 👌🏾

[red pewter]

???????

[ivory jolt]

i forgot what its called

[viscid cape]

well supposing the verb "zusehen" works, you need to use infinitive with zu, not bare infinitive

zu is a separable prefix

So...

[red pewter]

brb while i go kill myself

[ocean robin]

nuuuuuh

[viscid cape]

:v

[ivory jolt]

use sehen

for simplicity's sake

[ocean robin]

Bell, you can't give up like that! >:(

[ivory jolt]

forget zusehen

[ocean robin]

when you forget negation

[red pewter]

I can give up like that?!?

[ocean robin]

[viscid cape]

I think sehen to mean to 'watch' is strange as well... does any native have a suggestion?

[ocean robin]

Sehen is to see for me.

[viscid cape]

I'd use beobachten

[ocean robin]

Maybe ansehen?

[pine ginkgo]

zusehen

[whole rapids]

zuschauen?

[pine ginkgo]

zuschauen geht auch

[viscid cape]

Okay, so we're settled

provide the final version

[true fractal]

anschauen?

[viscid cape]

Pupils

[ocean robin]

Bell :v

[red pewter]

i genuinely don't know what we settled

[viscid cape]

Anschauen is to look at

We settled that zusehen is the verb

But you need infinitive with zu

zusehen is the bare infinitive

Makes sense?

[red pewter]

no

i don't understand

[tribal warren]

He means the zuzusehen, oder?

[viscid cape]

Yes

[tribal warren]

She did that right, Kryptik

[viscid cape]

She did?

[red pewter]

no

i didn't say zuzusehen

[ivory jolt]

if you do use zusehen, the zu (part of the sentence) would go between zusehen

zuZUsehen

[pine ginkgo]

she didn't say that

[ivory jolt]

not ZUzusehen

[pine ginkgo]

she reacted

[hot cloak]

Nichts macht mehr Spaß als ansehen, die fläppyübersetzten Sätze, die Fläppy übersetzt

[tribal warren]

aw

[red pewter]

i was freaking out that zuzusehen was even a word

[ocean robin]

dan baniel

[tribal warren]

Oh sorry

[hot cloak]

yeah, was trying to say that the extra zu is pretty much what you need

[ivory jolt]

the verb is zusehen, the zu in the middle, is part of the sentence

[viscid cape]

You overlooked Lanna's wise wordies

[ivory jolt]

ich freue mich, dich wiederZUsehen

same thing happened to this zusehen

zuZUsehen

[red pewter]

okay

i kinda get it now

[tribal warren]

I think it'd be easier to change verbs

xD

[red pewter]

Nichts macht mehr Spaß, als Flappy Sätze übersetzen zuzusehen

[tribal warren]

yea I don't agree with the übersetzen part

[ivory jolt]

it doesn't work that way, that is too English

[ocean robin]

Again, best verb is zusehen. 👌🏾

[viscid cape]

What don't you understand

[ivory jolt]

"see Flappy with her translating/during her translating of sentence" is the German mindset

[hot cloak]

to be hones

honest

[ivory jolt]

yours is the English mindset

get rid of it

[hot cloak]

it's a really tricky construction though, this particular sentence

[red pewter]

with her translating.

[hot cloak]

this is a weird sentence because we're trying to come up with a German sentence for it and the German sentence isn't an equivalent

[ivory jolt]

bei is what ur looking for

[hot cloak]

Germans would phrase it differently

[viscid cape]

Why would Germans phrase it differently

[hot cloak]

because it's a different language

a language isn't just words and grammar

people just say things differently

[ivory jolt]

because for german it is THE natural way to say that kinda structure

BEI

[viscid cape]

The sentence sounds correct to me

[pine ginkgo]

no

[red pewter]

Nichts macht mehr Spaß, als Flappy bei ihrer Sätze übersetzen zusehen

[hot cloak]

not to me

[red pewter]

T_T

[hot cloak]

you say als Flappy

and then there is no conjugated verb

[fair iron]

Sätze is plural, Bell.

[ivory jolt]

this is where that "gerund" comes into play

[fair iron]

Solet, why do you want Bell to use zusehen? As far as I can tell, it's wrong. 🤔

[pine ginkgo]

translatings gerunds is kinda abover her level anyway

[red pewter]

i'm so confused

i don't get it

this sentence is breaking me

[hot cloak]

also ansehen oder?

[whole rapids]

cbell is nearly defeated

finish her!!!!!!!

[ocean robin]

Ansehen, yeah.

NOOOO

[ivory jolt]

okay, to translate is übersetzen right? what should the act of translating be, intuitively

u two

[cold vessel]

You were asking earlier what kind of sentences I wanted to practice, Solet: Something like this would also have been fine, because I don't know how to do it 🤔

[ocean robin]

oh

[hot cloak]

nix macht mehr Spaß als sehen wie Fläppy ihre Sätze übersetzt

[whole rapids]

zum Übersetzen?

[hot cloak]

Daniel's sentence almost works

I don't know about sehen

[ocean robin]

Das Übersetzung? Or soooometing like that?

[pine ginkgo]

oh, gerunds, henbri?

you sure 🤔

[ivory jolt]

yes Flaps

[pine ginkgo]

das?

[shy bobcat]

🤔

[ivory jolt]

wait

shit

no, not ung

[ocean robin]

I think it's das 🤔

shiet

[ivory jolt]

not -ung

sry i messed up

[cold vessel]

@pine ginkgo Yeah

[red pewter]

die Übersetzen?

[ocean robin]

I don't remember now!

[red pewter]

der?

idk

[pine ginkgo]

you sure you are ready henbri :D

though i guess yo ucan use your cheating norse skills again

[ivory jolt]

yes, bell, but article should be das, Always

[wintry rivet]

i think what would have also worked is : Nichts macht mehr Spaß, als Flappy Sätze übersetzen zu sehen. Though it doesn't exactly hit the meaning

[red pewter]

okay.

[whole rapids]

nouns that look exactly the same as the infinitive are always "das"

[hot cloak]

Ich weiß noch nicht den bestimmten Unterschied zwischen ansehen/schauen/zusehen etc aber das kann ich bald lernen, ich muss Mittagessen essen also tschau

[ivory jolt]

das Übersetzen

now that you have a noun

[sudden panther]

"Enton, Enton" - Enton, 1998

[viscid cape]

Exactly, @wintry rivet I was thinking of sehen + infinitive 🤔 doesn't work with zusehen.

[ivory jolt]

how would bei come into play

[cold vessel]

@pine ginkgo Gotta learn sometimes

[ocean robin]

what the fuck

[tribal warren]

could you use something like "Nichts ist späßiger" or something like that?

[fair iron]

That's also what I had in mind, Rhyw. Hence me questioning the usage of zusehen. Now I know what Solet's goal is, though. ^^

[pine ginkgo]

you could, berg

[ocean robin]

What is bei doing here?

[quasi merlin]

"spaßig" sounds sarcastic (to me)

[pine ginkgo]

there are multiple ways to translate this and fix this, so it can be confusing if we mix them around

🤔

[wintry rivet]

Did i spoil it? i thought it was fine since the sentence was developing in a different direction

[viscid cape]

Bei + verbal noun works like English whilst/at doing X

[ivory jolt]

lets take a look at an example ich bin nicht gut beim Schreiben

[viscid cape]

@wintry rivet You didn't, they're trying to translate it with zusehen anyway

[red pewter]

Nichts macht mehr Spaß, als Flappy bei Übersetzen Sätze zuzusehen

[ivory jolt]

not quite close, bei dem or beim

[fair iron]

You didn't, Rhyw. ^^

[red pewter]

Nichts macht mehr Spaß, als Flappy bei dem Übersetzen Sätze zuzusehen

[fair iron]

The translation sentences sounds wrong in English, too.

[ivory jolt]

the Translating of Sentences

[fair iron]

^

[red pewter]

Nichts macht mehr Spaß, als Flappy bei dem Übersetzen von Sätze zuzusehen

[fair iron]

Close.

[ivory jolt]

dative. plural

[fair iron]

^

[red pewter]

der?

[whole rapids]

is that sentence the equivalent meaning? It seems different

[fair iron]

No.

[viscid cape]

The meaning is very close I think

[ivory jolt]

plural bell

remember

[red pewter]

Nichts macht mehr Spaß, als Flappy bei dem Übersetzen von Sätzen zuzusehen

[ocean robin]

Woooo, she put Sätzen.

[red pewter]

oh my god

[tribal warren]

nice

Can I ask something?

[fair iron]

Mika and I would like to mention that beim sounds a lot better than bei dem. ^^

[red pewter]

how could such an innocuous sentence bring such pain?

[hot cloak]

Yeah, it sounds more natural

[viscid cape]

@ivory jolt wth? 😂

[ocean robin]

Can I have a sentence?

[fair iron]

Ask away, Berg.

[tribal warren]

Could you change "Übersetzen" to "Übersetzungen ihrer Sätze?"

🤔

[red pewter]

I'm dead inside and I'm going back to bed

[ocean robin]

What.

[whole rapids]

or: Nichts macht mehr Spaß, als Flappy zuzusehen, wie sie Sätze übersetzt. ? 🙃

[red pewter]

thank you so much for the help and pushing me

[hot cloak]

^ works

[ivory jolt]

again what have we learnt bell, think GERMAN, the english structure doesnt always work

[red pewter]

I am thankful

[ivory jolt]

dont try to translate

rewrite

please

[red pewter]

I've been at this for a month I don't think in german yet T_T

[viscid cape]

Her structure would've worked if she had used sehen though

[ocean robin]

wat

[pine ginkgo]

yeah sure

[tribal warren]

so zu sehen, separate?

[pine ginkgo]

but she has to know why she uses it

otherwise it's quite meaningless

[viscid cape]

True

[red pewter]

why is sehen and zusehen so different?

[whole rapids]

thinking in another language is hard

[viscid cape]

Because zusehen governs dative, so it changes everything

[red pewter]

thinking in another language takes more than a month of learning

[viscid cape]

[whole rapids]

I can't even think in my own language, never mind another language

[cold vessel]

There's this construction I've seen sometimes where you split a clause with an infinitive by using "da(r) + prepositon". When is this used?

[red pewter]

easy answer, thank you

[viscid cape]

It's used when you want a whole clause to be the object of a preposition

[tribal warren]

Like darüber?

[ivory jolt]

At least when you see your sentence sounds too english, doubt it

[viscid cape]

Could be

[tribal warren]

I was thinking of using something like the translation of her sentences, instead of the translating (cause I didn't know that noun in german)

How would that be done?

[whole rapids]

@cold vessel do you mean like this:

Wir müssen darauf achten, dass wir Sätze richtig übersetzen.

hopefully I did something wrong there for irony

[cold vessel]

Yes, Pferd

[viscid cape]

You don't have to know the noun. If you're using bei in that sense, you just make the verb become a noun.

[tribal warren]

I mean with flappys sentence

[whole rapids]

it's like Krypto-dono said, it's used when the preposition is acting on a clause rather than a noun

[tribal warren]

I don't get what you mean

[viscid cape]

Wasn't it bell's sentence

[tribal warren]

oh yea right

[pine ginkgo]

i don't get what you mean berg

🤔

[tribal warren]

about flappy xD

[ocean robin]

How confusing that can be sometimes.

[ivory jolt]

nichts macht mehr spaß, als die Satzübersetzung von Flappy anzuschauen?

[tribal warren]

or with genitive

Nichts ist spaßiger, als Flappys Übersetzungen ihrer Sätze zu sehen

something like that

That's what I went for, but I know it's incorrect

[cold vessel]

I assume you can't say Nichts ist lustiger als dazu sehen, dass Flappy Sätze übersetzt ? 😛

[pine ginkgo]

your sentence is fine, berg

[whole rapids]

like you if you were to translate:

We must take care that we translate sentences correctly.

The thing we're taking care of is indicated in the clause rather than in a noun.

[viscid cape]

No henbruas, because zu isn't a preposition in this sentence

[quasi merlin]

Btw, no Umlaut in "spaßig"

[pine ginkgo]

but the meaning of the sentence is different, berg

[whole rapids]

I think the preposition must be paired with the verb in order for it to be used in this fasion @cold vessel

[tribal warren]

What's the difference?

[pine ginkgo]

one is

[ivory jolt]

Berg, that means, you look at the result of her translating work

[pine ginkgo]

kinda like this

[tribal warren]

Oh to see her translating and to see her translations

[pine ginkgo]

I like watching flappy translate her sentences

the other one is

[ivory jolt]

Am i rite louna

[viscid cape]

Yeah das Übersetzen is the process, die Übersetzung is the result

[pine ginkgo]

I like watching flappy translating sentences

[viscid cape]

(to my mind)

[quasi merlin]

(Luna, wat)

[ivory jolt]

wat

[tribal warren]

I was thinking

[pine ginkgo]

wat?

[tribal warren]

I like watching flapps translating sentences

I like to see flapps' translations of sentences

[quasi merlin]

^

[viscid cape]

You've translated the second Berg

[pine ginkgo]

oh

nvm

[ivory jolt]

flapps translation of sentence can mean like, you look at her homework and see, ah thats how she did it

[pine ginkgo]

i forgot the other sentence lel

[tribal warren]

I see

[ivory jolt]

but it's uh

understandable too

[viscid cape]

Shall we go to Flappo's sentence

It's torture time

[ocean robin]

I waaaaant one!

[tribal warren]

haha

thanks guys

[pine ginkgo]

henbri try this I want to talk about how we help Flaps

[sudden panther]

Since when do we help Flops? 🤔

[ivory jolt]

:i'm losing some of my english skill after this session:

[pine ginkgo]

that's why i want to talk about it, arrem :D

[whole rapids]

you don't need English any more

[hot cloak]

man braucht nur Deutsch

[ivory jolt]

i dont need no none nothing

[viscid cape]

Flappo get to work 😠

[ocean robin]

Mh.

[tribal warren]

license can be written as licence

interesting

[ivory jolt]

No

[quasi merlin]

"Looking for her driving licence", how do you lose that? <.<

[ivory jolt]

wat

[viscid cape]

Licence is the british spelling

[quasi merlin]

Stupid Susanne

[tribal warren]

Sorta like defence and defense, then

[ivory jolt]

no, license is?

[viscid cape]

No licence is

(I think)

[ivory jolt]

Defense is british isnt it

[tribal warren]

I think licence and defence are british

[viscid cape]

no

defence is british

[tribal warren]

because my english was based 100% in the USA

and I only knew license

[hot cloak]

license

[ivory jolt]

Ah okay

[viscid cape]

you're mixing it up with verbs

[hot cloak]

Ireland

[ivory jolt]

Will take note

[hot cloak]

tbh

[viscid cape]

realise is british, realize american

[cold vessel]

Ich will davon reden, wie wir Flaps helfen

[hot cloak]

people just use what they want nowadays

internet makes usage a lot more free

[ivory jolt]

This is crucial for my future essays ;_; writing both Ame and Brit would get me killededed

[pine ginkgo]

mhh, not wrong henbri

[hot cloak]

that's what I do

[pine ginkgo]

but we usually use über etwas reden

[hot cloak]

and it's my first language

[tribal warren]

The roober

[ivory jolt]

nice frame of mind tho Henbruas, you are following the german approach

[whole rapids]

the boober

[pine ginkgo]

henbri is just cheating with norwegian skills

[cold vessel]

@ivory jolt Well, I asked about it like 5 minutes ago, so I assumed that construction was relevant

[ivory jolt]

I have no idea what frame of mind means

[hot cloak]

@pine ginkgo which is more common colloquially: "Über was redet ihr?" oder "Worüber redet ihr?"

[pine ginkgo]

colloquially... both kinda

[tribal warren]

@ivory jolt sounds like the name of a dubstep song

[pine ginkgo]

maybe Über was a bit more

[ivory jolt]

Tristam and Kraken or something like that?

[hot cloak]

but only Worüber for formal?

[tribal warren]

Idk I don't listen to that

Tristam - Frame of Mind

[ocean robin]

1. Das ist mein Vater. 2. Das ist meine Mutter. 3. Susanne sucht ihrem Führerschein. 4. Jörg sucht nach seiner Kreditkarte. 5. Wir treffen unsere Freunde. 6. Sebastian redet zu seiner Mutter. 7. Arianna redet zu ihrem Bruder. I am already expecting the

[ivory jolt]

Its tristam and someone

[pine ginkgo]

uhm

1 mistake

1-2 wtfs flaps

[tribal warren]

there's something weird there

[ocean robin]

WTF

[tribal warren]

like flappy just changed the way she was thiking

[cold vessel]

@pine ginkgo The Norwegian skills weren't relevant here, we would say "Ich will reden über wie wir hilfen Flaps"

[pine ginkgo]

alright :P

[ivory jolt]

I like how flapps used 2 different structures for 3 and 4

[tribal warren]

yea

[hot cloak]

Norwegian sentence structure is almost exactly English

[tribal warren]

@ivory jolt She just changed the way she was thinking

[viscid cape]

Pasting it again to make correction easier

[tribal warren]

Maybe she thought: 🤔 If one of them is wrong, then I won't fail both

[ocean robin]

wat

[tribal warren]

look at 3 and 4, flapps

[ivory jolt]

very good, economic wise

[tribal warren]

they're supposed to be basically the same you know

the grammatical construct

[ocean robin]

Yeeeeeah, I see.

[ivory jolt]

thats like, spreading the risk

[ocean robin]

Nach suchen and suchen.

[tribal warren]

But that's not what Solet meant, I'm pretty sure

[hot cloak]

nach etw dat. suchen

[ocean robin]

I am still wondering why I didn't put nach on the other one tbh

[pine ginkgo]

me too

[tribal warren]

oh it was

[pine ginkgo]

eh it was one of the wtfs

it's not wrong

but still weird that you use two different translations for that

[tribal warren]

yea but it doesn't make much sense

[ocean robin]

[tribal warren]

I still believe she went for the "maybe this way I won't fail both" line of thought

👀

[whole rapids]

she was just flexing her German muscles

[tribal warren]

xD

[ivory jolt]

flaps dont use dictionary or ban :3

[whole rapids]

trying out different techniques

[ocean robin]

NO NICO, THAT'S CALLED SUICIDE

[quasi merlin]

Nah, the translation of the "driving licence" sentence is actually wrong.

[ocean robin]

[quasi merlin]

Wrong case, you meme.

Or missing preposition

[ocean robin]

🤔

[ivory jolt]

etwas suchen is like

well not looking for lost thing

But looking for thing

uh

[viscid cape]

@ivory jolt Do you think there's a difference in meaning?

[ocean robin]

okay it's nach

[viscid cape]

🤔

[ivory jolt]

How do i say it

There is, between nach etwas suchen and suchen

[viscid cape]

I thought there weren't

Good job Flappo

It's nach

[ocean robin]

wiooo

[viscid cape]

Now fix it

[tribal warren]

Do it.

:palpatine:

[pine ginkgo]

i would say there are differences

but it's hard to explain

[ocean robin]

1. Das ist mein Vater. 2. Das ist meine Mutter. 3. Susanne sucht nach ihrem Führerschein. 4. Jörg sucht nach seiner Kreditkarte. 5. Wir treffen unsere Freunde. 6. Sebastian redet zu seiner Mutter. 7. Arianna redet zu ihrem Bruder. ther

[pine ginkgo]

🤔

[ivory jolt]

sorry my german is instinct based, i cant explain, i have failed you

[sudden panther]

Flops pls fix the double space before the 4th sentence.

That's your worst mistake.

[ocean robin]

[quasi merlin]

I think I'd actually use "suchen" without "nach" here 🤔

[hot cloak]

it's pretty context-based whether there's a difference or not

[viscid cape]

Flappo you need another preposition for reden

[sudden panther]

vong?

[hot cloak]

trying to come up with an example but it's pretty tough lol

[pine ginkgo]

yeah

i amy trying to

[ocean robin]

Reden? Mmmmh.

Why not zu?

[quasi merlin]

Why zu?

[hot cloak]

I wanna say that "Ich suche ein Buch." sounds more general than "Ich suche nach einem Buch.", like "nach einem" implies you have a pretty good idea of what you're looking for

if you say "Ich suche ein Buch." you probably have a fairly decent idea too but it can also be a general statement

like you're just literally looking for any book

[whole rapids]

so you wouldn't say Ich suche nach Liebe.?

[cold vessel]

https://i.imgur.com/YUevKGv.png

🤔

[pine ginkgo]

yeah

[ivory jolt]

why reden?

[pine ginkgo]

i don't get that entry, henbri

i looked at it

and i don't get it

[tribal warren]

böse dictcc

[hot cloak]

"Ich suche nach Liebe" sounds like something you'd hear in a song or poem or whatever

[ocean robin]

I must go.

[hot cloak]

it doesn't sound wrong per se

[tribal warren]

What.

Work is unfinished

[ivory jolt]

😐

[quasi merlin]

Fläppers, quick.

[ivory jolt]

Banned

[quasi merlin]

A preposition for "reden"?

Other than "zu"

[ocean robin]

🤔

[pine ginkgo]

you can steal from the english here

[viscid cape]

she's thinking of english 'to talk to' though

😂

[ocean robin]

To... but in my mind it was zu eh

[ivory jolt]

the struggle

[ocean robin]

Yes exactly Krypti

[tribal warren]

Hello darkness my old friend, I've come to talk ___ you again.

[cold vessel]

What can you say instead of "to" in "to talk to"?

[ocean robin]

With?

[viscid cape]

Good

[tribal warren]

[ocean robin]

Oooh, so reden mit?

[ivory jolt]

uh berg, in that song its to?

[viscid cape]

Good gurlz

[pine ginkgo]

it's so weird

[tribal warren]

Nope.

Oh itis

xD

[pine ginkgo]

that there is sprechen (mit) and reden (zu) on dict.cc

[viscid cape]

lol

[cold vessel]

No, it's "with", cheese

[pine ginkgo]

when both of them take the same prepositions

[tribal warren]

Wait it's with

yea

[ivory jolt]

Btw dont use reden sprechen ftw

Just listen to the song

[viscid cape]

You may go now Flappo

Come back later

[ivory jolt]

Dont read the lyrics they are weong

[tribal warren]

Just listened to it

It's with

I've come to talk with you again

[hot cloak]

"zu jemandem sprechen" is a thing (not in everyday speech though) but "reden zu"...??? 🤔

[ivory jolt]

wat

[tribal warren]

You're thinking of the to before talk

[ivory jolt]

I'm listening to it too

[pine ginkgo]

i don't know lanna D:

[quasi merlin]

Bye, Fluppsi.

[ocean robin]

1. Das ist mein Vater.
2. Das ist meine Mutter.
3. Susanne sucht nach ihrem Führerschein.
4. Jörg sucht nach seiner Kreditkarte.
5. Wir treffen unsere Freunde.
6. Sebastian redet mit seiner Mutter.
7. Arianna redet mit ihrem Bruder. ther

See you guys.

[ivory jolt]

I'm listening to the instrumental version

[tribal warren]

Nico you're thinking of "to talk", and not "with you"

[ivory jolt]

to talk to you

[tribal warren]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZYpzXjdtwg

just listen to it

[hot cloak]

"zureden" exists as one word but...

[tribal warren]

Is 5 correct?

"Wir treffen unsere Freunde."

[ivory jolt]

Hmm maybe that song was not the original version

[pine ginkgo]

yep

[ocean robin]

wat

[tribal warren]

nah nvm

I was thinking unserer Freunde

[ivory jolt]

Wir treffen uns mit unseren Freunden

i think the excercise means to meet up

[tribal warren]

ignore me 😄

[ivory jolt]

Not bump into

[pine ginkgo]

mittreffen 🤔

[tribal warren]

:c

wait im confused

[ivory jolt]

i dont know if im right but i always assumed treffen is encounter while sich mit jmdm treffen means to meet up

i havent even checked yet

[tribal warren]

mittreffen doesn't exist, does it?

as a separable verb

[quasi merlin]

No.

It doesn't exist.

And yes, that's correct, Link.

[tribal warren]

oh it's eintreffen that exists

[ivory jolt]

It can, like, you copy someone who hit a target, then you mittreffen

Right Mika?

Like, a made up word for spoken german

[quasi merlin]

Eh, yes

[ivory jolt]

ich habe das Ziel getroffen, jetzt muss du mittreffen

Eh

(With a gun)

[viscid cape]

õ_õ

How does that help

[pine ginkgo]

eh

[ivory jolt]

it doesnt, forget it

[pine ginkgo]

you would use mittreffen differently

[uncut ember]

Does Neunundneunzig luftballons ever mention that the balloon is red?

[pine ginkgo]

Ich habe auf das erste Ziel geschossen, aber das zweite Ziel mitgetroffen

[uncut ember]

or did they just add that in the English version

[tribal warren]

good question

[placid heath]

as far as i can recall, no

[pine ginkgo]

but meh, mittreffen is a meme :P

[placid heath]

Ich kann es singen, moment

[sudden panther]

Solet! Mika! Korea! You're all looking lovely today.

nowwhowantstohostthereadingcircle

[ivory jolt]

would that imply u hit oth

Both

[placid heath]

Danke, du siehst auch memetastisch aus. :D

[uncut ember]

This is a German learning server but it kind of feels like it has just become a servver where half the people only use German and the other half talk about crap in English

[pine ginkgo]

hahahaahahahahahahah no arrem

[cold vessel]

@uncut ember What?

[hot cloak]

Yeah, if we were to make up something like "Ich hab das zweite Ziel mitgetroffen", I'd think "mittreffen" refers to hitting both targets at once

[placid heath]

No, the balloons are not red in the song (unless I remember it incorrectly)

[quasi merlin]

@sudden panther

[ivory jolt]

if its not red how could it trigger anti air

[sudden panther]

I actually thought of that as I was writing this. 😅

So that's a yes? 😛

[quasi merlin]

Nah.

Maybe someone else?

[uncut ember]

Wenn solte ich Noch und Doch benutzen?

[placid heath]

Cheesecake, wait a moment

[ivory jolt]

red balloon -> appears redder in the infrared vision

[pine ginkgo]

did you ask zwitschi?

[placid heath]

They were confused with UFOs

[pine ginkgo]

he is kinda doing it anyway, arrem

[viscid cape]

Wormic has been slacking off too much with the reading circle, we should ban him.

[placid heath]

^

[sudden panther]

Yes.

[ivory jolt]

really? I never heard the song

I thought they set off missiles

[hot cloak]

Asking about "noch" and "doch" is probably too broad

I wouldn't know where to begin explaining

[pine halo]

^

[uncut ember]

yeah see wht i mean this language throws in words willy nilly it feelsl ike

[ivory jolt]

Noch and doch are completely different

[placid heath]

<intro>
99 balloons on their way to the horizon
were confused with UFOs from space
that's why a general sent jets after them
to raise alarm if they were UFOs

[hot cloak]

Would help if we had a specific sentence to work with

[placid heath]

rough translation

[hot cloak]

I can see how "doch" feels arbitrary sometimes, since it's one of our modal particles 🤔

[ivory jolt]

oka

Y

[sudden panther]

Every word has its own distinct meaning though. Even the modal particles. 😛

[hot cloak]

It does, but I think the nuances of our modal particles can be hard to grasp if you're not used to them

[ivory jolt]

noch is like still, as in you still want more, there is still time left

[uncut ember]

ok

[hot cloak]

"Wir haben noch Zeit." > We still have time.
"Ich kann noch mehr essen." > I can still eat more.

[uncut ember]

but if that is dificult to start explaining

then

when do use zu or zur instead of adding an to the beginning of the verb

[sudden panther]

Yeah I agree, but I can't just let "this language throws in words willy nilly" pass without saying anything. 😛

[ivory jolt]

If there is a sense of "still" and "more", its a sign of noch

[hot cloak]

I get that, our language prooobably wouldn't work if it really was random 😛

"Ich kann noch nicht so gut Deutsch sprechen." > I can't speak German that well yet.

noch nicht ~ not yet

[sudden panther]

What do you mean, Finesse?

[ivory jolt]

I still cant speak well

[sudden panther]

Adding what to the beginning of the verb?

[uncut ember]

an

like

angesehen

[sudden panther]

What would you use instead?

[uncut ember]

zu or zur

idk

they both mean "to" iirc

[sudden panther]

Well they're not really the same thing.

[uncut ember]

explain

[ivory jolt]

All those prefixes has a rough sense that will give to the verb

[uncut ember]

brain asploding

[ivory jolt]

and there is no zur prefix

[sudden panther]

ansehen is to look at something. There's no "to" in it.

[uncut ember]

so an means at?

[ivory jolt]

an is like onto, at something

[uncut ember]

the prefix

[ivory jolt]

yes rouhly

Roughly

[uncut ember]

ok

so when would use zur

[ivory jolt]

anclicken

[sudden panther]

Eh. Prefixes can mean a lot of things. They won't translate 1:1 to English.

[ivory jolt]

Anklicken

[uncut ember]

when use zu or zu

*r

[hot cloak]

the problem is that the question kinda feels like "when do you use 'to' or 'for' in English"

it's difficult to narrow it down to short explanations

[ivory jolt]

example of zur?

[sudden panther]

^And the only reasonable answer is "you use it in loads of different places".

[uncut ember]

it feels like

that

for the one english word

there are like six or seven different ways in German

and they all have different shades of meaning

except sometimes they overlap

[twilit garden]

it's the same the other way around

[uncut ember]

I haven't really seen it with the most basic words

[ivory jolt]

english there are look at, look into, look for, look around

[hot cloak]

yeah, sadly language learning goes beyond finding equivalents of words in your native language haha

[uncut ember]

like aux verbs

yeah

[sudden panther]

I still sometimes see Germans mess up when/if. 😛

[twilit garden]

must = müssen
must not ≠ nicht müssen

[sudden panther]

Because in German, both are just wenn.

[uncut ember]

but those prepositions all have different clearly defined meanings

but in German they all overlap sometimes

[hot cloak]

We do have "falls" I guess, but we seem to prefer wenn + context, huh

[ivory jolt]

not always

In english is not always clear

like take after

[hot cloak]

Thinking about it now, falls = if doesn't necessarily work anyway 🤔

[uncut ember]

and i haven't seen a german cognate for the word do

[ivory jolt]

It means to be similar to someone

[uncut ember]

like i do this

[twilit garden]

tun

[uncut ember]

tun

Ich bin homework tun

[whole rapids]

tun

[hot cloak]

machen

lol

Hausaufgaben machen = to do homework

[uncut ember]

fuck

see

[hot cloak]

etwas tun = to do something

hahaha

[uncut ember]

the word you use in english

[twilit garden]

https://www.thoughtco.com/difference-between-machen-and-tun-1444818

[uncut ember]

doesn't literally translate to the same thing in german

[hot cloak]

That's why it's a different language 😛

[uncut ember]

its so similar but so alien

[whole rapids]

you wanted to say "I am doing homework"?

[uncut ember]

yeah

or "what are you doing"

[whole rapids]

there is no progressive in German

well, not in the verb itself

[uncut ember]

in the meaning of "what are you up to"

[hot cloak]

yeah, progressive is either implied or you add gerade/grad

[sudden panther]

the word you use in english doesn't literally translate to the same thing in german
It's exactly the same for any language. They aren't 1:1 maps of each other and have all evolved in different ways.

[uncut ember]

idk

its harder

because its so simlar

but also really different at the same time

[hot cloak]

"Ich mache Hausaufgaben" probably implies you're doing homework right now in a conversation

"Ich mache gerade Hausaufgaben" explicitly states you're doing homework right now

[uncut ember]

its not like learning Japanese or Russian where the rules are so diffrerent you can draw a clear line in the sand

well thanks for the help

[hot cloak]

"What're you up to?" is like "Was machst du grad?"

[whole rapids]

there are lines in the sand

they're just not so clear-cut

[uncut ember]

thats what i just said

its not like learning Japanese or Russian where the rules are so diffrerent you can draw a clear line in the sand

[whole rapids]

okay, your sentence implied something else to me

what is your level of German right now anyway?

[uncut ember]

maybe a1 or a2

idk

how to tell

[hot cloak]

Another point for German is the whole will / going to future tense thing, isn't it...

Then again we have six billion tenses so we're probably losing that point again. 😛

[uncut ember]

your native language is really hard to explain i get it

[whole rapids]

I don't understand what you mean, the future tenses are similar in English and German

[uncut ember]

i could never get enlgihs

explain English

[hot cloak]

Oh yeah nvm do we actually have more grammatical tenses? I'm probably still thinking about Japanese too much lol

[uncut ember]

is duolingo a good tool for learning words and stuff?

[hot cloak]

For vocab, I think it's fine

It just won't teach you how to speak

[ivory jolt]

for absolute beginners

[naive charm]

^

[twilit garden]

it is good for languages that don't have complex grammar like Swedish for example

[quasi merlin]

English has more tenses if you count the continuous stuff.

[hot cloak]

I never thought of continuous etc. as extra tenses, but that makes sense.

[ivory jolt]

english also has 4 conditional types

[whole rapids]

You might be thinking of cases?

[ivory jolt]

bruh

[uncut ember]

so

what is to do once i can build a basic sentence

[whole rapids]

English only sorta has cases on its pronouns, but they're not proper grammatical cases I don't think

[ivory jolt]

Look for a beginner workbook

bilingual

[uncut ember]

ok

ill buy one off amazon

[tribal warren]

Is zwitschi going to host a vorlesestunde?

[uncut ember]

i got one from the libnrary

[hot cloak]

Basic conversation, basic reading, textbooks, more apps like Duolingo, dunno, depends on how you study best and what your goals are

[ivory jolt]

we have one in resources, pinned message

[uncut ember]

but you cant write in it so it became a paperweight

[hot cloak]

I still think conversation is the most effective way to study

[uncut ember]

im traveling in a few months

[ivory jolt]

#resources

pinned message

[uncut ember]

and I want to have a basic level of competency in asking directions and commenting on this or that thing we see

or ordering meals at a restaurant

[ivory jolt]

Youtube helps

[uncut ember]

and im grateful for going to Germany where everybody won't kill you for fucking up the language, unlike France where they will

i guess

[ivory jolt]

[uncut ember]

my strategy so far has jsut been to make my own pidgin

like say

[hot cloak]

You could ask someone to roleplay restaurant scenarios or whatever with you too haha

[uncut ember]

"Where is bathroom"

o gues your right

one other thing il ike about duolingo is pronunciation practice

thats about the only reason i didn't stop using it

[hot cloak]

Specific ideas can help with finding language exchange partners tbh

otherwise a lot of conversations die after "hi let's practice" - "yeah sure nice to meet you, how are you"

I haven't heard the pronunciation on Duolingo for German but it's probably OK

[ivory jolt]

Muss ins bett gehen. Todmüde, tschüssi

[hot cloak]

I'd guess it sounds a bit...robotic like most of these apps, but that's fine

[uncut ember]

no

i mean

[hot cloak]

Tschüssi 👋

[uncut ember]

basically

they give you words and sentences to say

[hot cloak]

oh yeah the app does that

[uncut ember]

and you have to say them correctly

so

[hot cloak]

Not sure how accurate you have to be, I don't think my French is as good as the app says it is 😄

[uncut ember]

you get used to speaking v as f, and ss as zs

[naive charm]

I don't trust any pronunciation software. There are always thing that are pronounced weird or incorrect.

[uncut ember]

thats what im saying

THEY are not the ones pronuncing

the user is

they dont tell you how to do it

[hot cloak]

Though I guess inside the app you'd use their pronunciation as reference

[uncut ember]

^

[naive charm]

Checking pronunciation is something I also don't trust software to be better than a native at

[uncut ember]

Im taking an A1 test

right now

its not so badd im getting it

[hot cloak]

Nice 😄

[uncut ember]

fuck i failed

ig ot half of the stuff right

fuck your languages inflections

[hot cloak]

😛

[tribal warren]

o_o

[uncut ember]

and fuck Normandie

why cant English be more germanic

i dont really think inflections are gonna hold me back as a tourist

[sudden panther]

The Frenchies did it.

[uncut ember]

though

fuck Normandie

[sudden panther]

I mean as long as you can say "i bims der finesse umd i kann echt good deutsch" everyone will tell you that your German is so good. 😛

[uncut ember]

yep

your country is so nice with people fucking their languege up

its like "thanks for trying at all"

[sudden panther]

I may be going a bit overboard, but it's really not that hard to impress Germans. They're very generous with compliments haha.

Unless it's Solet, I guess.

[hot cloak]

I don't mind speaking English at all, but I still prefer broken German over English.

It's nice.

[uncut ember]

meanwhile in France its more like "qui non all world speak francais" how dare tus americain pour merde on francais langua

get out of fransua

and spaniards will look at you really confused

Russians are the same as germans

they'll be hjappy you tried at all

Chinese people all speak better english than chinese now anyway, same for norwegians and swedes

[whole rapids]

interesting generalisations

[sudden panther]

Eh, it depends on who you meet. Some people will see you and instantly think "Not a native. Better switch to English. Go go go."

[hot cloak]

Yeah, I often hear about people not getting much of a chance to speak German here b/c everyone switches to English lol

[uncut ember]

*its stereotypes its not like i say everybody is this or that way

[hot cloak]

Personally I stick to German if the other person wants to practice.

[whole rapids]

people do that to me but I just stay in German

and their English is usually bad

only young people here speak good English

[west harness]

Yeah while I was there they wanted to speak english with me no matter what I said

[sudden panther]

My highschool teacher came to Vienna a few months ago and we grabbed a cup of coffee. The waiter was speaking to me in English the entire time, even though I was speaking in German, just because he overheard us speaking a myseriouss foreign languageee ouoo.

[uncut ember]

im pretty sure grandpa hans or someone will probably go all ss on your ass for not speaking german right

[hot cloak]

Not even young people necessarily speak good English here 😂

[uncut ember]

but its a good thing he's tucked away in some quiet corner of bavaria

its a conundrum

[whole rapids]

it's true that some people will look at you with disdain if you're don't speak the local language fluently but such morons are far and few between

but I have only ever experienced that once myself

[west harness]

Most people who don't like it are the older people

[whole rapids]

people usually understand how hard it is to speak a foreign language

yeah, them grumpers

[hot cloak]

hey guys

what's cracking?

[sudden panther]

Bones.

[hot cloak]

and knuckles 😛

[whole rapids]

Someone's heart somewhere.

[pine halo]

yeah if you can barely communicate and aren't patient enough to either write stuff up or speak very clearly it might be a bit rough

but if you just have an accent don't expect many people to look down on you

[red pewter]

I'm late but this was relevant.

[viscid cape]

I don't understand the french's attitude lol

[red pewter]

(#isentthisforthegermanflapstersdontkillme)

[viscid cape]

You're lucky she's eating

[tribal warren]

haha

[viscid cape]

Otherwise you'd feel the baguette fury

[tribal warren]

🔥 🥖 🔥

[red pewter]

O_O I'm sorry

[tribal warren]

wot

I'm just demonstrating the baguette fury, I'm not french

[red pewter]

What are you :?

(Damn what an offensive sentence. Where are you from?)

[tribal warren]

Not hooman

I'm a doggo

[red pewter]

😮

[toxic urchin]

WHAT ARE YOU

[tribal warren]

It wasn't offensive, that's fine

[red pewter]

T_T I'm going to go die now

[tribal warren]

🇩🇪 7:1 🇧🇷

[red pewter]

Neato burrito

[tribal warren]

🤦

brazilien

Brasilien!

[fair iron]

That first flag should be 🇩🇪, Berg. :]

[tribal warren]

No, we played so bad that we were the cause of that score

no jk

[fair iron]

Haha, fair enough. ^^

[tribal warren]

BRA71L

[fair iron]

20🇧🇷🇩🇪

[tribal warren]

Whaat

2071

Nice

[fair iron]

^^

[tribal warren]

It's funny, I don't even like soccer, but I just love how this became such a meme

What about you, bell?

What are you?

[toxic urchin]

A bell

[tribal warren]

Case closed.

[toxic urchin]

ring any bells?

[fair iron]

A. Bell?

[toxic urchin]

Jingle bells

[fair iron]

Cain and a bell.

[tribal warren]

Oh no.

Why?

Just kidding, great pun.

[fair iron]

No it wasn't. ^^

At least, it wasn't meant to be.

[viscid cape]

How was it not meant to be

🤔

It was a pun

[tribal warren]

Yea

Puns are always great

To me, the worse the joke is, the better

[fair iron]

It wasn't mean to be a great pun, Kryptik.

[viscid cape]

Oh

Well it was good 👌

[tribal warren]

Kryptik, if Casca was a bride

Would he be a Cascavel?

[toxic urchin]

I dont get it

[tribal warren]

Translate that pun to english, I challenge you

[fair iron]

I'd rather be the groom, to be honest. 🤔

[viscid cape]

But grooms have no veil

[tribal warren]

Explaining portuguese puns: veil = véu

[toxic urchin]

He meant broom

[tribal warren]

Cascavel = rattlesnake

Casca + vel = Casca + véu

[fair iron]

And I have no (intention of wearing a) dress.

[viscid cape]

Berg you won't be able to explain it, sorry

😂

[tribal warren]

Why?

[toxic urchin]

You want to be a naked bride?

[tribal warren]

"Véu" in portuguese means Veil
"Cascavel" means Rattlesnake

Cascavel is basically A rattlesnake, but also Casca with a Veil.

That was a good explanation, c'mon

😦

[viscid cape]

[tribal warren]

I wanna be part of the pun club

even if it's in puntuguese

[fair iron]

I'd rather not be a bride at all, Crab. 🤔

[toxic urchin]

A naked groom?

[tribal warren]

Okay so a pun with Groom is needed

[fair iron]

I'd rather not be naked, either. ^^

[shy bobcat]

@viscid cape yo isn’t portuguese for door like “porta” or something

[tribal warren]

Yes

Porta = door

[shy bobcat]

portuguese puns will get you some porta-gês 🚪

[tribal warren]

🤦

[fair iron]

Why is it illegal for a bride's soon-to-be husband to have kids?
You shouldn't groom children.

[tribal warren]

You missed the u

pun ruined

porta-guês

jk 😂

Now we noew for sure what's arizona's next language 😄

Wow Casca.

[fair iron]

Ask, and ye shall receive.

[tribal warren]

Nice

What's the payform form

Do you take credit card?

[shy bobcat]

@tribal warren >forgetting how to spell in a language you don’t speak = pun ruined 😦

[tribal warren]

@shy bobcat Of Course!

I'm just messing it was good

Didn't think of that one

[shy bobcat]

it almost works in spanish too

puerta-gués

[tribal warren]

Yea kind of, except it's spanish

[shy bobcat]

but like 1000 times better in portuguese

[tribal warren]

🔥

Agreed

Why do you use a door to represent the pun, though?

Is this totally obvious?

Cause of the knock knock thingy?

🤔

[shy bobcat]

I gave myself the door emoji bc I was gonna get one

😛

Pre-emptively putting the “get out” door

[tribal warren]

Oh I see, it's the get-out door

I was thinking it was more of a knock-knock, who is it?

[shy bobcat]

no, the porta-guês pun itself was the “get out” door as well 😛