ah I see my mistake looking at the link
#Bobby, a new voice assistant and Snowy successor
harsh brook
doesnt seem to actually be breaking anything, at least the pages look identical both locally and the result from github pages
covert ingot
❤️ The favicon
harsh brook
What exactly doesnt work right?
wooden wedge
it displays svg instead of ico on lower resolutions
covert ingot
Looks fine on firefox to me
wooden wedge
so in the tab bar, it displays a blurry mess and not my custom icon
covert ingot
Okay, I will hold off on any feedback 🙂
I'll wait until everything's closer to being finished?
wooden wedge
well, I'm planning to have this done tomorrow so I would rather know if there's something that needs to be improved
it's not finished in terms of progress but almost finished in terms of deadline
edgy flame
i don't like "extracting value"
"bobby is a new addition to your Rebble voice and weather subscription"
covert ingot
I don't think we need to advertise the Rebble sub here, just bobby.
"Bobby is an AI assistant that lives on your watch, and works with the other features of your Rebble subscription like timeline for reminders. Powered by an LLM, bobby can answer almost any question you could ask"
prime latch
firefox mobile seams like its using your custom icon
finite night
the text above and below Bobby feel off in terms of information hierarchy at the moment. anyone who starts reading naturally at the top won't necessarily know what "the platform" is. I'd consider removing the top line entirely here in the current mockup. i like the line, it just made more sense to me in the earlier banners with all the additional context imagery
edgy flame
or like... "bobby adds LLM assistance to your existing rebble voice and weather, at the same price of $3/mo"
covert ingot
I do not think we should mention the price here
I'm sure you already have it, but the code for making the rebble clock tell the correct time is @ https://github.com/pebble-dev/pebble-dev.github.io/blob/master/js/svg.js
If you copied the SVG from the Rebble site you should be able to drop that in
This bit looks really nice
karmic lion
the points of interest functionality is so mediocre I'm not sure it's worth actually advertising, mind
I really need to figure out how to make that useful
edgy flame
i tried to use it once; i was in the car with my friend, we wanted to find somewhere to eat. i asked it for restaurants and quickly realized it can't actually navigate me to those restaurants or follow up on the information past "this place exists"
covert ingot
If you switch the .header-block to use display:flex then you can choose the order it reflows into on mobile. Currently the image is above the title which I think looks a little odd
Although it looks better in that screenshot 😁
covert ingot
Yeah ignore me
On my desktop in mobile mode the image was most of the screen
So all I got was horse
On my actual phone it looks better
finite night
I agree with this - I love the fence image but something that actually shows bobby on a watch (even just the home screen) provides immediate, helpful context to the viewer
covert ingot
Aware you said it's not final copy, but this reads like you mean the Android/iOS app
wooden wedge
yes it does
harsh brook
I assume you mean this lopsidedness
wooden wedge
yeah, I need to make the text shrink at some point
I hate dealing with text in html sometimes
covert ingot
Could bobby wink on mouseover?
wooden wedge
bobby can do anything on mouseover
though that bobby is going away
we will need a different bobby
covert ingot
I agree "The most well-ready pony on the platform" makes less sense if you're coming into this blind
What about "The tiny horse that knows it all", or something that gives a bit more insight into what it is
wooden wedge
I do like that
south edge
wooden wedge
yeah, I will think about it
wooden wedge
there has to be something wrong with pkpyjs that doesn't work with bobby, the emulator really doesn't wanna do much with ws
edgy flame
looking good
something still vaguely bothers me about the density and margins and alignment of everything
covert ingot
Looks good! Given the new text, I don't think you need the "Requires a rebble subscription" under the button
acoustic wolf
the "Bobby" text looks very off to me
wooden wedge
something still vaguely bothers me about the density and margins and alignment o...
yeah, I know what you mean
edgy flame
i should draw a thicker question mark button and PR the app
wooden wedge
well, that's a vector
so it's not entirely true to life
though that question mark is rather small anyway
also I didn't find a good stand in for leco
edgy flame
it bugs me on the watch too but I can't imagine anyone else caring about something so small lol
wooden wedge
you may be asking: is that current time and greeting?
and my answer is yes, that's a stupid detail
wooden wedge
I was thinking if I could draw the rest of the interface as vectors, but I don't think that's a good idea
because I do not have the time for that mostly
edgy flame
I still think it should just be a screenshot and dodge all the accuracy snags, but you are doing cool things with it
wooden wedge
well, accurate or not, it's bobby on a watch
wooden wedge
brought to you by the maker of live updating tictoc in cobble
kinda funny to think, I did make custom fonts for that, maybe I could do the same for leco
I also made a recreation of Agency from the sdk in a form of pebble font that I never released
I should do that
I think I called it Will or something
edgy flame
agency?
wooden wedge
the font used in kickstart
edgy flame
ohhhhhh
upbeat garden
edgy flame
kinda funny to think, I did make custom fonts for that, maybe I could do the sam...
don't put too much work into this girl, it does what it needs to
wooden wedge
but think of all the overengineering
edgy flame
I am 😆
wooden wedge
anyway, I would like to record bobby, but I can't
I might have to modify the code a bit to make that happen
edgy flame
there's fiddling that needs done in other places
like put 16px between the bobby title and the subtitle under it
wooden wedge
I'm gonna pretend to be bobby if bobby doesn't let me do this
anyway, I clearly don't know what I'm doing
wooden wedge
hmm
edgy flame
next order of business is getting the right edge of the watch screenshot widget to line up with the right edge of the cards below
edgy flame
I also think it'd look good if the header kept the pink background but the cards were on a white background - reminiscent of this thing the header on rebble.io
that's personal preference though
wooden wedge
edgy flame
the Bobby site should be pink but right now there's so much pink that everything drowns in it
edgy flame
yeahhhhh yessss
wooden wedge
that's personal preference though
we would have to do use black instead of white for the cards then
or pink?
wooden wedge
the cards right now are transparent white
edgy flame
huh
can they be opaque pink instead
let me try and sketch out what I'm thinking actually
wooden wedge
edgy flame
yes yes yes this is perfect! that's exactly what I was thinking
edgy flame
okay, one last tweak: make the "get Bobby" button white/black/same color as text so it stands out more on the pink header
what are your thoughts on this look?
edgy flame
that pink is not opaque though
technicality tbh. it looks good
wooden wedge
okay, one last tweak: make the "get Bobby" button white/black/same color as text...
what text color?
edgy flame
what text color?
the text is black, so probably make the button fill black and the button text white
the problem I'm noticing is bright pink button blends in with soft pink background
edgy flame
yeahhhh!
hmmm can we make that button bigger
how big can it be for three syllables of text before it looks weird
edgy flame
do you think this is better than all pink?
wooden wedge
edgy flame
pfffht
wooden wedge
button jumpscare
edgy flame
I want to work on Bobby chalk tonight
i have enough system components built out to give myself a scaffold
i do miss Bobby very much when I wear my round
edgy flame
thing about my new design: we will need to include a new roughly 40-50px version of most of the icons we already include at 18px
actually, 25px for the little bottom peek and ~40-50px for the big card screen
wooden wedge
that shouldn't be an issue outside of me having to do all that
edgy flame
yeahhh
wooden wedge
I'm not gonna complain though
edgy flame
i can redraw the icons if you don't wanna do it
wooden wedge
it would be nice to have some texture behind those cards
I like to show off the blur
wooden wedge
i can redraw the icons if you don't wanna do it
I would love to redraw them
though it's probably better to split
edgy flame
i am still not entirely sure if supporting round is something Katharine cares about implementing, especially with it requiring all the conversation screen logic to be redone
the size we need for card icons will depend on if I feel they need to be smaller to fit more info into one card
finite night
i'm loving all the updates, but i would say personally i'm not sure that right-aligning the watch graphic is doing it for me. Maybe it would be improved if the descriptive text was wider, but i think i like that part as is... just feels like there's a really large empty space here when the browser is fullscreen
if anything i'd consider shifting both the header elements toward the center and having the content be center-aligned
wooden wedge
how many bobbies can we fit there
finite night
ooh, new bobby challenge unlocked
edgy flame
i'm loving all the updates, but i would say personally i'm not sure that right-a...
good catch. i think the answer here is have the text fill its container with 64dp or so of margin between it and the watch
finite night
yeah, i think that's also worth exploring - unless it suddenly makes that block of text look "off" it's probably the simplest tweak 🙂
edgy flame
infinite thanks to you for shouldering the burden of doing website btw
wooden wedge
it's not just me
harsh brook
I did relatively little in all of this :D
Do lemme know if there's anything else that I should look at tho
wooden wedge
I would say recording bobby, but I don't think that's very likely
I think we should just use some screenshots in there for now
oh yeah, would you be able to have a look at why that screenshot can be scrolled?
I will fetch a few screenshots and write a small thing to just scroll through them
acoustic wolf
I would say recording bobby, but I don't think that's very likely
do a cropped screen record with emulator
harsh brook
Yea recording is hard for me to do as emulator lags for me too much, at least on my laptop
acoustic wolf
I can record, emulator is fine for me
harsh brook
oh yeah, would you be able to have a look at why that screenshot can be scrolled...
Can have a look later this evening, probably just need to disable pointer events if you want it to be handled just through scripts
wooden wedge
do a cropped screen record with emulator
does bobby work in emulator for you?
acoustic wolf
I can try
wooden wedge
I would appreciate it
wooden wedge
wooden wedge
anyway, I should figure out the text I wanna put on the website
karmic lion
It is time! Give or take
@wooden wedge How is website looking? I'd like to push out the blog post within an hour or so.
wooden wedge
it's pretty good, I am finishing up displaying screenshots in the watches
I'm sure we could add more content, but I am not good at generating content
karmic lion
I see Bobby is still even more anti-emulator than anti-pebble
I am also anti-content
I have a blog post that is 90% pictures because I had nothing to say
well I'm not anti content I'm just bad at it
wooden wedge
karmic lion
ooh, pretty
wooden wedge
I will finish the screenshots on watches meanwhile
I wanted a nice animation and I am getting it
deployment is presumably going to be easy for people who have this kinda access
wooden wedge
@harsh brook are you around to migrate the repo to the org?
if not, there's nothing stopping us from creating another repo
karmic lion
except for me anyway
wooden wedge
besides you not being able to
coarse cedar
for legal reasons I cannot create a repo though.
because then its google property? (genuine question)
karmic lion
No, anything I do is Google property regardless of who creates the repo
But Google policy holds that I can't start OSS projects without Google approving me doing so.
I can, however, contribute to an appropriately-licensed OSS project with no approvals needed
Bobby, for instance, went through a full launch process at work
(including three rounds of privacy review)
which is why, despite me having actually made Bobby in 2023, I did not ship it until 2025
(Not because the launch review took two years, mind - it took about three weeks. I didn't start it until 2025 because getting launch approval for a ChatGPT wrapper seemed dubious.)
(There's a reason it uses Gemini now and aside from Gemini 2.0 Flash actually being quite good it's because it had to make it through Google's approval process.)
coarse cedar
gotcha, thanks for elaborating!
karmic lion
fancy
You could steal some screenshots from the blog post if you're so inclined (especially since that weather query would show a widget these days)
wooden wedge
that's fair, there is a weather widget somewhere in there too
that being said, replacing screenshots seems secondary
I should be making a banner, shouldn't I
wooden wedge
karmic lion
I guess we'll start with that and see if it looks broken
karmic lion
not too heavy, probably - less text than the website header has
wooden wedge
my distro updated to gimp 3 so we will see how fast I can be with this new software
karmic lion
big "bobby", screenshot to the side the tagline is good, maybe that's all it needs
Just "The tiny horse that knows it all - Bobby - Rebble AI Assistant"
that basically covers it
and watch container with screenshot at the right
probably a screenshot of the home page
karmic lion
up to date screenshots!
wooden wedge
I was just taking one
karmic lion
you should use the colour corrected ones
bobby is not nearly as pink as in your screenshots
karmic lion
cobble just needs to gain this map: https://github.com/pebble/pebble-tool/blob/master/pebble_tool/commands/screenshot.py#L61-L128
harsh brook
<@114736207446933509> are you around to migrate the repo to the org?
I'm on mobile, but if I get an invitation I can indeed just transfer ownership
Dunno who is the right person to ask
karmic lion
you are invited.
karmic lion
seems okay, might be a bit much text? I'd have to see the whole thing to say
I cannot touch it without a license
for legal reasons!
wooden wedge
yeah, that might be too much
karmic lion
harsh brook
Please do so! I am free to take suggestions on what it should be, guess if anything the same one as the existing rebbleio website
karmic lion
apparently it now lives at https://rebble.io/bobby-website/ which is a ridiculous URL
thanks github
it's a shame I can't change it to just rebble.io/bobby without renaming the repo
oh well, bobby.rebble.io it is
wooden wedge
there's a license now
harsh brook
there's a license now
Thanks!
Oh I see things are still scrollable 
I'll look at fixing it once I'm home again
Nice swipe effect
wooden wedge
I underestimated the amount of space I have for the pony image
karmic lion
well that did not work. https://bobby.rebble.io
harsh brook
I assume you need to update the config for the styles to work
karmic lion
probably.
it's trying to do https://bobby.rebble.io/bobby-website/assets/pager/p2-4.png
wooden wedge
karmic lion
You now have space for "the" in "shares world's knowledge"
wooden wedge
I also think I have space to flip them around
harsh brook
Styles look happy now
Err, almost, guess the text is still too wide, letting me zoom out
karmic lion
That'll do
wooden wedge
cool
karmic lion
I will do the things when you send the file.
though it looks like I don't get to specify a banner for it. maybe it just uses the app's banner?
guess I'll replace the first banner with this one
wooden wedge
karmic lion
thanks!
I really wish you could reorder assets in the dev portal
let's see what this does
edgy flame
eegh. is this gonna stay
wooden wedge
well, post your feedback
edgy flame
it feels busy with both
wooden wedge
it is relatively busy
edgy flame
the tiny pony blown up to massive stroke width also feels extremely clunky
wooden wedge
yeah
edgy flame
that's the main thing i think.
if we want more art in the banner i feel like the banners you did for the app store work a lot better
wooden wedge
I mean, in that specific file, that scale makes sense for 80px icon
but the fonts in that file are also 2px tall
karmic lion
well that didn't work great
wooden wedge
mmm
wooden wedge
not particularly useful to have a big whie rectangle
karmic lion
I bet that pink at the bottom is the banner…
wooden wedge
I can't see pink. only orange
karmic lion
"banners": [
{
"application_id": "67c3afe7d2acb30009a3c7c2",
"image": {
"720x320": null
},
"title": "Bobby"
}
]
I am open to creating something more creative, but I also want something that works better as a general banner
so I'm open to any ideas you might have
karmic lion
oh apparently the banner is set separately
and is another thing you can't upload
it's also not platform-specific
wooden wedge
that makes some sense
finite night
I'd agree that having bobby and a bobby screenshot feels less necessary/kinda busy. fence bobby got removed specifically to be replaced by the watch screenshot to provide more context
standalone bobby could go somewhere lower down the page, maybe?
finite night
oh, that's for the app page? instead of the current one?
wooden wedge
no
finite night
i'm confused :/
wooden wedge
that's for the frontpage of the store
finite night
OH, gotcha
karmic lion
it's fixed
though it might still be busted on chalk and aplite
might have to hack something up so it just doesn't show there?
that doesn't seem to be something we considered.
wooden wedge
yeah
karmic lion
okay it does show up so it's not just busted
it's just also pointless because it's unsuppotred
anyway will deal with that later
blog post time
edgy flame
I am open to creating something more creative, but I also want something that w...
copy that- let me think
finite night
i'd consider:
- removing standalone bobby or reducing line thickness (A)
- if bobby is staying, shrinking the smaller text at the bottom (B) so that it doesn't get so close to the watch graphic (if standalone bobby is leaving this won't be necessary
karmic lion
the small text is very small on my phone
maybe the blurb goes away and the rest of the text gets bigger.
finite night
yeah, was about to suggest that as a third possiblity
wooden wedge
yeah, that doesn't sound like that bad of an idea
karmic lion
for reddit post, thoughts on the title:
Introducing Bobby, Rebble's new AI assistant for Pebble
maybe voice assistant instead of AI assistant
don't want to AI too hard
edgy flame
imo
- embiggen the watch so you can see the screenshot pony better
- drop the supertitle above Bobby
- bigger font size for the bullet points, and/or...
- replace bullet points for a more natural "this tiny horse can check the weather, set alarms and timers, search the world's knowledge, and more" across a max of three lines
karmic lion
if you embiggen the watch it ceases to be pixel perfect (and also doesn't fit)
wooden wedge
it is not pixel perfect
wooden wedge
the banner templates are kinda bad
finite night
feel like something like this would be perfectly enticing - i'd click through to learn more
karmic lion
anyway please feedback on reddit title
finite night
people get more info once they land on the page
karmic lion
the thing that is happening now instead of the thing that happened twenty minutes ago
wooden wedge
I do like voice more than ai
finite night
should it be Rebble instead of Pebble? to immediately set expectations
karmic lion
it already says Rebble
karmic lion
well. you're too late now
finite night
lmao
edgy flame
"for rebble" feels weird to me because a rebble watch isn't a thing
karmic lion
indeed
edgy flame
rebble is an organization and a set of services, the watches are pebbles
karmic lion
it doesn't matter because it cannot be changed, but it also does not make sense
finite night
please forget i opened my mouth
karmic lion
https://www.reddit.com/r/pebble/comments/1jj0ew2/introducing_bobby_rebbles_new_voice_assistant_for/ in any case
edgy flame
you're fine
wooden wedge
bobby.rebble.io sadly doesn't have a banner I wanted to add because I didn't have the time
there is a banner.png it tries to use but doesn't
because it doesn't exist
as in the path exists but the banner doesn't
I am making no sense
karmic lion
so what's the state of appstore banners?
karmic lion
feel like something like this would be perfectly enticing - i'd click through to...
I do generally agree with this
(but that's unsurprising because it's identical to my original suggestion)
I mostly ask before I post something on bluesky, where I guess I'll manually attach a banner because rebble doesn't embed anything
wooden wedge
so what's the state of appstore banners?
I am working on it
karmic lion
👍
I have no idea how I'm supposed to run migrations against the appstore database
Which makes it much harder to make the home banners platform specific
karmic lion
Will `flask db migrate` not do?
Where?
I guess I just attach myself to the prod database and run it
karmic lion
But the appstore won't start if the migration hasn't already been performed
I had this problem on Auth and just gave up and had it tell me the SQL it would run and ran that against the database by hand
Thus doing the first Auth migration that has been done in six years
covert ingot
docker-compose exec appstore flask db upgrade is what I ran against a blank DB according to my notes
rigid crow
check out it is webpage?
To my understanding, "it's" -> "it is" and "its" -> possessive
¯_(ツ)_/¯
harsh brook
Can have a look later this evening, probably just need to disable pointer events...
Removed scrolling alltogether since your auto scrolling solution doesn't need it at all, and slightly tweaked the header screenshot to try and prevent pixel gaps by enlargening it by one percent and tweaking the frame border values a tiny bit
covert ingot
To my understanding, "it's" -> "it is" and "its" -> possessive
You are correct, I am currently in bed with a bad headache and should go back to bed 😁
wooden wedge
I should have moved the text a bit
karmic lion
Do you intend to move the text or should I use those?
wooden wedge
mmm, I will move it real quick
edgy flame
this is much much better than lots of tiny text
wooden wedge
this is fine
also this time the watch screenshots are pixel perfect
because I used my own frames and not the ones from the banner
karmic lion
I'm going to replace the banner at the top of the blog post with this too
wooden wedge
cool
karmic lion
it is done
wooden wedge
we should run a formatter over this entire website, it's a mess
yay, a banner
I wish it was bigger, but that requires x specific metadata even on discord for some reason
karmic lion
I sort of hate websites that show a giant banner despite the banner not actually being the intended content
though I do understand the desire to make that happen.
wooden wedge
tiny banner it is
karmic lion
I guess when linking a marketing website it is the intended content
less compelling argument when I link a github repo and get a giant github banner
wooden wedge
those are the worst
harsh brook
Fiddled with the responsiveness a tiny bit more, should be less broken now
wooden wedge
cool
harsh brook
do we care about iphone 4's
wooden wedge
I think we need to make it pinker specifically for that tablet
karmic lion
detect kindle colour user agent, make it bright pink again
so it gets muted back again
the experience of colour on a kindle is much like the experience of colour on a pebble
karmic lion
looking at the logs I'm seeing "user has no subscription" pop up more now
karmic lion
well the app is free, it's using it that's not 😄
rough cliff
fair 🙂
edgy flame
does bobby show a warning or does it just not work
karmic lion
it shows a lazy warning
a notification appears when you launch the app
(as in an actual Pebble notification)
edgy flame
good enough
an effortful solution could look like removing the actionbar mic and example prompts from the home screen, and the speech bubble telling you to subscribe to rebble
covert ingot
Man https://bobby.rebble.io/ does look really good
karmic lion
an effortful solution could look like removing the actionbar mic and example pro...
it would be even cooler if the canned prompts still worked and gave you canned answers with a subscription prompt at the end
(or real answers with a subscription prompt at the end)
edgy flame
oooo
karmic lion
oh well, this is probably bobby's one moment to shine and we didn't do that
karmic lion
I don't know. Do we tweet things any more?
covert ingot
But we haven't tweeted that we've moved to bluesky
karmic lion
I feels like if we're going to have a principle we should stick to the principle
Though we haven't actually announced the move so we aren't doing a very good job
covert ingot
I feels like if we're going to have a principle we should stick to the principle
Fair. I think we should do a final tweet saying we're not tweeting then
karmic lion
I think we want to also spin up something in fediland before we announce moving anywhere
then offer both as options
but spinning something up in fediland requires board approval
because it costs money
those five dollars a month are going to bankrupt us
I guess until we get that sorted out we could keep tweeting.
covert ingot
Imo we should bin off honeycomb, that'll give us loads of five dollars' to spend
But fediverse sounds good
covert ingot
We can still do metrics, but something we host ourselves
That costs less than all our other cloud bills
rough cliff
Is Rebble not already on the fediverse? https://mastodon.social/@rebble
Mastodon
karmic lion
I guess so
though if it's news to everyone, has made a total of five posts, and only one person has access, also arguably not
kind halo
I asked "can you tell me a number whose cosine is itself" and it restarted my watch lol
karmic lion
it's a hard question
kind halo
it even said "getting a calculator"
karmic lion
I asked it and it just said "that"
kind halo
it even said "getting a calculator"
which by itself didn't seem particularly hard to do
karmic lion
kind halo
lmao
I do think asking a watch to find a calculator is a bit too much to ask
wait
lua legit has a constant called math.huge?
karmic lion
apparently
sick apex
I do think asking a watch to find a calculator is a bit too much to ask
eh I think asking it to do math is understandable, I'd like my pebble to be smarter than a casio databank
kind halo
after an unplanned restart it actually gave me a correct answer!
karmic lion
it probably helps if it doesn't mishear "cosine" as "cofine"
kind halo
or dentist
karmic lion
or dentist
honestly after making the new rebble audio debug feature I'm amazed it ever understands a word I say
kind halo
I was literally just wondering "what does any of this sound like?"
wooden wedge
does rebble have a service for you
kind halo
speech recognition tends to misunderstand me
but come on. "dentist"??
karmic lion
Press "enable audio debug mode" at https://auth.rebble.io/account
then use dictation and go to https://audio-debug.rebble.io to listen to the audio
karmic lion
logging of what?
kind halo
just general error logging
it died again during the "getting a calculator" part
kind halo
that's a shame...
kind halo
all the more reasons to celebrate having the source code, I suppose
also, I don't want to hijack this thread too much, but is it normal for the microphone to be constantly popping?
karmic lion
who knows, nobody has ever really listened to these before
the audio on some of them is quite terrible though
like this
harsh brook
Man https://bobby.rebble.io/ does look really good
guess the copy pasted site description could be trimmed down a bit
kind halo
okay... how does it even recognise anything from this??
karmic lion
did it recognise anything? 😄
karmic lion
I sure can't understand it
anyway this is why pebble speech recognition isn't very good sometimes
the microphones are really bad
actually my Pebble 2 sounds perfect
but my Pebble Time Steel is abysmal
harsh brook
I thought it was just my accent making it hard sometimes
karmic lion
unfortunately, while the dictation request includes the type of phone you are using (and also for some reason your network carrier), it does not tell me what sort of watch you are using, so I can't helpfully label that in the dictation UI
covert ingot
and also for some reason your network carrier
Could that have been to do with the hacky sms replies on Verison?
karmic lion
no, I think it was a contractual requirement from nuance that we tell them
covert ingot
That is weird
karmic lion
the SMS replies were a separate adventure
karmic lion
I think only @wooden wedge has a lot of them
edgy flame
doesnt matter what it is im just doing napkin sketches
ill grab one of the bitmaps off github
okay, napkin sketches about chalk
each Widget can be represented by a small icon, which will show in the peek when it is the card below the one youre viewing. bobby's smallicon is a little horse face
also, each type of card gets its own color code - user prompts are grey, bobby text responses are pink, tools can be a third thing
edgy flame
okay, napkin sketches about chalk
here's an example conversation thread. while bobby is thinking about what to respond with, it shows you your prompt, and as soon as bobby starts to reply the screen wil automatically flip down to the top of the response widget-stack
edgy flame
more widget card sketches
wooden wedge
I think only <@98466323452948480> has a lot of them
I should upload them somewhere
karmic lion
the deepest, darkest secret of Bobby:
for i, w := range words {
ps.conn.Write(streamCtx, websocket.MessageText, []byte("c"+w))
time.Sleep(time.Millisecond * 40)
}
the words appearing gradually on screen is entirely for show, there is a delay introduced at the server
kind halo
I just had a brainwave
A companion app that detects if you have a Bluetooth microphone attached, and uses the audio from that when Bobby is invoked
karmic lion
I see you have learned things about the quality of the pebble mic
That's not impossible
barren raptor
I see you have learned things about the quality of the pebble mic
But then again, almost all Bluetooth headsets also have horrible mics
karmic lion
Have you listened to a pebble?
In several of these recordings it is not clear anyone is speaking
karmic lion
Yeah I can hear it if I turn the volume up
wooden wedge
I still couldn't tell you wtf is said there
karmic lion
I have more respect for the Google speech recognition now
wooden wedge
what's the mothra seeking sunder
that's my guess
maybe it's a kaiju, pokemon and a type of fish
maybe it's thunder
I am lost as to how voice recognition even works anymore
karmic lion
The new one is a two billion parameter transformer model trained on 12 million hours of speech in 300 languages
So I assume it's matrix math and deep magic
wooden wedge
how does google even get that much data
wooden wedge
right
karmic lion
An interesting property of all these new generation ASR models is that they are capable of transcribing in a language different to the original audio
Apparently this is just an expected capability now
No translation step needed
wooden wedge
that would make writing a translation app relatively easy
wooden wedge
well, that's pebbles for you
karmic lion
True, though you don't actually get audio input from them
wooden wedge
yeah, that really is unfortunate
I guess there was some concern about privacy though
karmic lion
Also practicality
It's much easier to ship text
But privacy was big too
I'm considering building a mechanism to register your app with the ASR service to get a webhook when the dictation is invoked for your app
Maybe then the ASR service returns a UUID as the transcription and passes the same one in the webhook so you can match it up
wooden wedge
that sounds really cool
karmic lion
Opt in in the developer portal or something
Not sure who would use it
Bobby could - give Gemini your audio directly instead of a transcript
Though given how incredibly bad the mics are I question the value
Also it would not work in apps that don't use Rebble asr
Or for people who have decided to self-host
barren raptor
Have you listened to a pebble?
Mine sounds fine idk
I checked it on the audio debug and it sounded a very fair bit better than what I expected from how it's been described
karmic lion
Given a bunch of them were posted here you did not have to lean on descriptions!
I have one watch that is perfectly audible
But clearly many are not.
karmic lion
today in Bobby: google is just returning Service Unavailable all the time
edgy flame
woah, like, Gemini API is down?
wooden wedge
oh is that what happened
karmic lion
woah, like, Gemini API is down?
Apparently
This happens sometimes
Which is why that is the one bobby error that has crazy things like punctuation
Bobby tip: after an error message like that, you can long press to repeat your last request
barren raptor
Given a bunch of them were posted here you did not have to lean on descriptions!
oh good god i just found those, yeah those are horrible
karmic lion
Hooray, bobby has surpassed 100 hearts
hot whale
Hello everyone! First of all, I want to express my respect and gratitude to your work, bobby, - it's just a miracle, my dream.
However, I found a critical error. on pebble 2 hr, there is a problem when working with bobby in Russian: when making a request in Russian, the request is successfully translated into text, but at the stage of receiving the answer, the watch is stolen and reboots. On the third time, they go into SOS mode. You have to reconnect to the watch and reinstall the OS through the application. There are no such problems in English.
karmic lion
I might guess that this is caused by the russian language pack
I'm not sure I can do much about it
hot whale
Here is a video with an example of the error
This is really some kind of incompatibility with the English + Cyrillic language package, I changed the system language to English, but made a request in Russian, and Bobby was able to answer me in Russian, naturally the text was in squares.
However, I have not seen such a problem in other applications, so I think this problem can be solved.
Moreover, the application crashes precisely at the response stage, but it displays the request text in Russian correctly.
wooden wedge
crashing for random reasons is a very pebble thing to do
karmic lion
hm.
karmic lion
This is really some kind of incompatibility with the English + Cyrillic language...
Does it do it for non-weather queries?
I wonder whether the weather widget crashes it
hot whale
I tried to set a timer for 10 minutes, my request in Russian was translated into text, the timer was set, but at the stage of showing the generated response the clock crashed again
hot whale
again, the request text is successfully written in Russian, it is logical that the text from ai should also be written correctly, however, at this stage it crashes
barren raptor
I wonder whether the weather widget crashes it
i have seen the weather widget work with cyrillic city names before
however only after i have asked it in english
here's an example
karmic lion
i have seen the weather widget work with cyrillic city names before
good point
I guess it's formatting the response that causes problems when combined with the language pack
barren raptor
lemme see what happens if I enable the english + cyrillic language pack that likes to make the pebble crash
(and which I also don't understand the point of, because my watch displays cyrillic fine without it..?)
ooh @karmic lion, it is a cyrillic issue
I just asked it (in english) to respond to me in cyrillic and it crashed the watch
karmic lion
I gathered
I wonder why
I think cyrillic is also multibyte and latin is mostly single-byte but I don't think I do any interesting text processing on the watch
it's possible the pebble system is falling over doing the measurements
¯_(ツ)_/¯
barren raptor
does the debugger not give you any info about what caused a crash? i'm not familiar with the tooling that's available
karmic lion
what debugger?
there actually is a debugger but since bobby does not run in the emulator I cannot use it anyway
and it's only really useful for app crashes, which this is not.
barren raptor
there actually is a debugger but since bobby does not run in the emulator I cann...
oh that makes sense, i didn't realize bobby couldn't run in the emulator
asking it to respond with an emoji also crashes the watch
barren raptor
so that leads me to assume it is something related to multibyte charaters
aand now my firmware has uninstalled itself, curse you pebble :p
karmic lion
if your watch reboots three times in fifteen minutes, your firmware gets uninstalled
you can reset the counter by turning the watch off from settings
barren raptor
you can reset the counter by turning the watch off from settings
oh that's good to know
karmic lion
seems fine
barren raptor
...that's weird because it definitely just crashed for me
i'll give it another shot once it finished reinstalling
wooden wedge
well, my watch is responding with failures now, so I can't even test
karmic lion
well I managed to crash the app
I asked it for a lot of emoji
it was going fine
then I guess it ran out of memory.
covert ingot
I cannot get bobby to crash
barren raptor
yeah still crashes for me
covert ingot
I asked for 50 emojis and it told me it couldn't send me that many, but I could have 5 😆
covert ingot
yeah still crashes for me
What's the exact input you're giving it?
and do you have a language pack installed?
karmic lion
[22:17:02] ation_manager.c:122> Sent message successfully.
[22:17:03] conversation.c:174> Expanding buffer to 16 bytes. New buffer: 0x20024444. Old buffer: 0x20023ab8.
[22:17:03] conversation.c:176> Copied 7 bytes.
[22:17:03] conversation.c:174> Expanding buffer to 32 bytes. New buffer: 0x2002496c. Old buffer: 0x20024444.
[22:17:03] conversation.c:176> Copied 16 bytes.
[22:17:03] conversation.c:174> Expanding buffer to 64 bytes. New buffer: 0x20024b30. Old buffer: 0x2002496c.
[22:17:03] conversation.c:176> Copied 23 bytes.
[22:17:03] conversation.c:174> Expanding buffer to 128 bytes. New buffer: 0x20024c88. Old buffer: 0x20024b30.
[22:17:03] conversation.c:176> Copied 51 bytes.
[22:17:03] conversation.c:174> Expanding buffer to 256 bytes. New buffer: 0x20027050. Old buffer: 0x20024c88.
[22:17:03] conversation.c:176> Copied 102 bytes.
[22:17:03] conversation.c:174> Expanding buffer to 512 bytes. New buffer: 0x20026e4c. Old buffer: 0x20027050.
[22:17:03] conversation.c:176> Copied 231 bytes.
[22:17:04] conversation.c:174> Expanding buffer to 1024 bytes. New buffer: 0x20026a48. Old buffer: 0x20026e4c.
[22:17:04] conversation.c:176> Copied 360 bytes.
[22:17:05] conversation.c:174> Expanding buffer to 2048 bytes. New buffer: 0x20026244. Old buffer: 0x20026a48.
[22:17:05] conversation.c:176> Copied 979 bytes.
[22:17:06] conversation.c:174> Expanding buffer to 4096 bytes. New buffer: 0x20025240. Old buffer: 0x20026244.
[22:17:06] conversation.c:176> Copied 1913 bytes.
[22:17:10] conversation.c:174> Expanding buffer to 8192 bytes. New buffer: 0. Old buffer: 0x20025240.
[22:17:10] ault_handling.c:97> App fault! {1d272bb4-cf00-4e3e-a7f3-7394309e0341} PC: 0x80074c0 LR: 0x80c2b5f
Program Counter (PC) : 0x80074c0 ???
Link Register (LR) : 0x80c2b5f ???
[22:17:10] pkjs> Bobby:315 c🇹🇼🇹🇯🇹🇿🇹🇭🇹🇱🇹🇬🇹🇰🇹🇴🇹🇹🇹🇳🇹🇷🇹🇲🇹🇨🇹🇻🇺🇬🇺🇦🇦🇪🇬🇧🇺🇸🇺🇾🇺🇿🇻🇺🇻🇦🇻?
too many emoji
barren raptor
...okay now it's working consistently, what the fuck?
wooden wedge
it crashed after 3 for me
barren raptor
and do you have a language pack installed?
how would i check that? is that what the "Language" setting actually does?
karmic lion
I should probably actually handle the case where it can't allocate memory for the inbound message
covert ingot
how would i check that? is that what the "Language" setting actually does?
You'd know if you'd installed one 🙂
karmic lion
have it tell you to leave the thread and start over or something
barren raptor
You'd know if you'd installed one 🙂
okay, then I have not
covert ingot
😁
barren raptor
that is in fact what the language setting actually does
i do have two choices for language, English and English + Кирилица
karmic lion
that's a surprisingly short list
barren raptor
the only difference i have found between the two is that English + Кирилица makes the watch crash every time I dismiss a notification
covert ingot
that is in fact what the language setting actually does
Oh. How come people sideload language packs in certain cases then, just ones that aren't on the lp server?
karmic lion
Yes
barren raptor
oh no sorry, i mean on the watch
karmic lion
it crashes for more mundane reasons
rough cliff
The difference between "Sorry, I can't send emojis" and sending me 50 is the LLM 😄
karmic lion
true
barren raptor
on the app i also have that list of languages
karmic lion
there's a list on the watch?
barren raptor
karmic lion
I think that only has more than one option if you already picked something else in the pebble app
rough cliff
🙃
In other news, factory resetting my Pebble 2 has caused the microphone to work again. Beyond me.
karmic lion
Picking a language in the pebble app installs a language pack. Without a language pack the watch knows only English.
With a language pack I guess it knows English and also one other language.
barren raptor
I think that only has more than one option if you already picked something else ...
you are in fact right, i explictly set it to english and now it only has english
karmic lion
which in this case is also English
barren raptor
and now i wonder if this means my watch can no longer display cyrllic text in notifcaitons
karmic lion
yes.
barren raptor
that's so weird
why have two language packs where one does nothing and one breaks everything?
karmic lion
Hm?
"English" isn't a language pack, it's the default.
(I think technically this is a language pack, but it is the null pack)
barren raptor
i just switch back to "English + Кирилица" in the app, and it did give me back the "English + Кирилица" option
But even when I set it back to just "English", my watch can still display Cyrillic text.
karmic lion
Yes, because you still have the language pack
You just have the English text
I assume the fonts still apply
barren raptor
but I know from prior testing that the "English + Кирилица" option makes the watch crash when doing various things
so why does it make it crash when it does nothing of actual value?
and why have it at all if it doesn't do anything
karmic lion
I have explained this multiple times already.
There is a language pack called "English + Кирилица".
A language pack is two things: a bunch of translations of system text, and extra fonts to show languages without native support
By installing the language pack, you get both of these things added to the watch
The "English + Кирилица" pack does not actually have any translations (or it does, but they're identical to the source - I'm not sure), but it does include cyrillic fonts
wooden wedge
translation file is zero length
barren raptor
The "English + Кирилица" pack does not actually have any translations (or it doe...
The thing I'm wondering is why a pack with no translation or with identical translations makes the watch crash if it's not actually doing anything
karmic lion
So when you change the display language in watch settings, you switch which set of translations you're using
barren raptor
Because if you disable the translation pack and leave only the fonts, everything works fine.
karmic lion
does this include the things that were previously crashing the watch?
(It perhaps has the actual impact of no longer needing to go through the translation machinery to look up the empty strings when you explicitly disable doing that)
barren raptor
there are certain things that only crash with "English + Кирилица" enabled - a specific example is dismissing notifications
hot whale
interesting, mine crashed too, it crashed when I asked it to send emoji, while I set the system language to English, and the recognition language to English
wooden wedge
how do you disable the pack and only leave fonts
karmic lion
there are certain things that only crash with "English + Кирилица" enabled - a s...
this is known to crash without any language packs
barren raptor
that crashes consistently with "English + Кирилица" enabled, but works just fine when the watch setting is set to "English"
karmic lion
how do you disable the pack and only leave fonts
apparently by going to settings > display > language on the watch
wooden wedge
hmm
barren raptor
this is known to crash without any language packs
no major firmware bugs eh eric?
karmic lion
Dismissing notifications crashes when some apps are open under the notification, but not when others are
wooden wedge
I might have to unpack the official language packs and analyse them
because that's sus
barren raptor
Dismissing notifications crashes when some apps are open under the notification,...
hmm, that makes it even weirder
karmic lion
presumably it's running out of memory. or stack.
barren raptor
I wonder if it's a stack thing, and looking up translation strings requires pushing an extra thing onto the stack or something since it's calling another function
karmic lion
the notification UI was always running out of stack
barren raptor
by the way, i do want to say thank you @karmic lion for building bobby despite all the weird limitations it's had imposed on it by the firmware
it's still amazingly useful and i'm glad it exists - hopefully one day some of these issues might get fixed and it can be even better
karmic lion
anyway I have shipped bobby updates
- it is now less likely to be wrong or throw an error when you ask it what the time is in a place that isn't your current location
- it is now able to answer questions like "how far is it to New York?"
- POI lookup was broken but is now fixed
- with the 1.1 update, it does not crash when you change settings in the config page
to whoever just tried that: it can't tell you how far away new york is if you have location disabled, which you do
wooden wedge
yeah, that was unhelpful
to bobby and me
bobby has a nebulous idea of what nearby means
karmic lion
bobby thinks all results are nearby
because they are the closest results that satisfy the query
wooden wedge
having too much fun
edgy flame
woman i hung out with today asked me about smartwatches (happens to me) so i showed her Bobby; the fence pony art got squeals of delight
😌
wooden wedge
that's really cool to hear
wooden wedge
the size we need for card icons will depend on if I feel they need to be smaller...
I would love to see some mockups and start working on it
karmic lion
I think the next thing on my bobby to-do list is to handle being out of memory
Instead of crashing it should just start throwing away conversation history
And if that doesn't cut it, it should stop
... without allocating any memory, of course.
I'm not sure whether throwing away history will really help - if it's trying to allocate space for a very long answer the resulting memory may well be too fragmented to be useful
But at least it can do something other than crash immediately
I think I'm up for doing the round work at some point
Though I have no idea where my round watches have gone to
wooden wedge
I wish I could find a nice band for my round, I don't wear it very often because of that
edgy flame
I would love to see some mockups and start working on it
i have posted a few mockups in here
they're 50px icons for now but they feel very cramped
wooden wedge
do you need some help with any of it?
edgy flame
more widget card sketches
widgets
edgy flame
okay, napkin sketches about chalk
here's a conversation thread
wooden wedge
that does look pretty cool
edgy flame
do you need some help with any of it?
I would appreciate that - i think these are competent but the widgets are missing something
im not sure if more space is what they need
have I posted my Bobby figma drafts?
circles are on page 2
wooden wedge
I kind of wish the author of the message was a different font or something for differentiation
edgy flame
it's a smaller font
edgy flame
what I am doing to approximate pebble fonts here here Pretty Bad
edgy flame
things im thinking about:
- we could use our existing 25px icons as the confirmation for every widget and free up some space, though i really like the big art
- need to vertically center text responses that don't take up a full screen height, for the added width of screen
- the horizontal timer layout Doesn't Work and i should put the live countdown below the big icon. maybe move the name to the top in small text, and drop the "for 5 minutes" - bobby doesn't show the max time of a timer on widgets on rect anyway
wooden wedge
I would love it if the lightbulb icon with the circle would do pulsing
edgy flame
yesss I was thinking similarly
wooden wedge
I imagine it would work like this: you have a normal thinking dot that pulses, but the moment the card for thinking would appear on time/2, makes the dot yellow and expands it to be large enough to fit a bulb within
it would also be nice to use the pdc animation that the firmware uses a lot of expanding icon
edgy flame
yeah.. gods we would have to find a spot for the thinking dots wouldn't we
wooden wedge
I think the bottom half circle indicator is a good place for it while processing
edgy flame
I suppose we could shove it into the bottom but I don't love it
yeah
it'd have to be cut to just one pulsing circle instead of three which isn't great
wooden wedge
actually, I wonder if you could expand the dot into the entire circle indicator at the bottom
to make that pulse instead
actually no
expand it from a dot into the circle for bulb, and then after it's done, it expands from the circle into the bottom indicator
it's grow + move down probably
edgy flame
do you think that animation would be very visible at the edge of the dark Spalding screen?
edgy flame
ough
well
the screen ain't great :p
i think that an animation living in just the bottom margin would be hard to see without the backlight
wooden wedge
I mean, I imagine yellow is particularly painful
I found a band I might wanna buy for it, so I might wear it more often whenever we are reunited
wooden wedge
I found really good looking cork straps that I love
I love natural material and this looks like a pretty cool alternative to leather that is vegan
edgy flame
cork?? that's super cool actually! can it bend without tearing?
wooden wedge
people seem to be using them for years
better than what I can say about the default ptr band
wooden wedge
my pts band lasted a bit longer
but yeah, it also fell apart
I'm really sad because they look so nice
wooden wedge
at least bobby came with your existing 3 dollar subscription
hollow rivet
Would it be reasonable to make location-based services estimate based off of your IP address if location is turned off?
karmic lion
The point of turning off location is to not use your location
We don't actually have to ask permission; we do so as a courtesy
nimble moss
Is there any "easy" way to know what the equivalent for timers, alarms and reminders are in other languages? I switched pebble to spanish (I'm responding to 100x more spanish messages than english ones), and I asked bobby for an alarm and Bobby set a reminder... it worked but.
And, I just added an Alarm, and it actually added an Alarm, not a reminder. oh well
"bugs" tend to resolv every time I ask for help
Do you have any really big bug? I could ask for help with it and it might solve the bug....
karmic lion
Unfortunately, there is no magic word (in any language), and I don't know how I'd improve that behaviour.
You could also try setting your dictation language to "auto" and then in theory the watch will figure out what language you're speaking on the fly, but your mileage may vary.
karmic lion
But in general: when bobby misbehaves, please report the thread either by long-pressing the middle button on the conversation, or by asking Bobby to send feedback about the conversation to the developers.
nimble moss
ok
weary ether
two thoughts I had: what is the Google Calendar (or any kind of Calendar) integration ability? Probably low since that's what reminders are for. Also, one of the main things I like to use AI-on-wrist for is game walkthroughs. ie: "In Legends of Zelda Echos of Wisdom, how do I escape the first room of the Deku tree dungeon?" so I was curious if other wiki sites could be added to Bobby's knowlede. Fandom could be a good one to add because then a whole world of awesome nerd media then becomes queryable
karmic lion
two thoughts I had: what is the Google Calendar (or any kind of Calendar) integr...
If it's a mediawiki with the APIs enabled (and is popular) this is a one word change. Unfortunately, Fandom in particular is an entire thing in itself
weary ether
Ok like these? https://m.mediawiki.org/wiki/Sites_using_MediaWiki/Wikimedia
karmic lion
Yes
weary ether
Looks like a lot of really useful information haha. Bobby can use one of these at a time and currently uses Wikipedia?
Bobby could get the headlines from wikinews maybe?
Wikiquote would be fun
urban solstice
Just did the bare minimum to get Bobby on Chalk - glad that it needed only minor configuration to build & deploy
Before I dive all the way in, is it worthwhile me doing this? As much as Chalk is a PITA to design for I really do love it; but I don't want to waste time duplicating any work that's already in progress
wooden wedge
If it's a mediawiki with the APIs enabled (and is popular) this is a one word ch...
I do use strategywiki sometimes for this
a minecraft wiki could also be useful from my pov
edgy flame
Just did the _bare minimum_ to get Bobby on Chalk - glad that it needed only min...
Cool stuff! The issue with getting Bobby on chalk was never a technical challenge, but a design one - Bobby is built of mostly dense, rectangular widgets and text on a continuously scrolling view, none of which fly on the round Pebble screen. Solving this design challenge is something I've been chipping away at slowly
edgy flame
https://www.figma.com/design/te9L1m2EXsHsFuDoMImPy9
This is roughly what I have so far
wooden wedge
feel free to ask for any resources you need to accomplish it
urban solstice
😊
I've been following your descent into madness journey on this problem and planned to implement your designs, and then just "make it up" to get things functional where needed
(Like making sure text wraps sensibly, elements aren't cut off - real basic stuff)
wooden wedge
lots of horsing around ahead
edgy flame
text wrap isn't awful on chalk, there are tools built into TextLayer for sane behavior on chalk
edgy flame
make everything more centered
like.. max height is somewhere around 116 pixels, but within that, we are centered to get the most out of the screen width
oops, those layouts are the same
timer variants
'timer' label gets replaced with the name of the timer, if exists
this really, really feels like it's missing something still.
anybody have ideas?
wooden wedge
I have animations in mind, but that doesn't seem very helpful
wooden wedge
it's kinda weird there is no scroll indicator at the top
edgy flame
we can put it in place of the statusbar
wooden wedge
I assume it would work the same way as rectangles then
edgy flame
i'm kind of, sort of, working off the notifications app on chalk for this, which has a down content indicator but no up indicator
edgy flame
wooden wedge
that's why the timeline past isn't easily available I guess
wooden wedge
more icons? is this anything?
it does help I think
I imagine that moving the icon to the left of the text would make the layout a bit weird
edgy flame
that's what i'd do on rect
wooden wedge
what does the notification look like when you are on page 2 of it?
my worry with bobby is that the pink reduces the contrast a bit
edgy flame
full screen of text, drop the header, keep the status bar and content indicator
edgy flame
it doesn't sound like it should work but on the watch it works
edgy flame
what does the notification look like when you are on page 2 of it?
it's like
edgy flame
my worry with bobby is that the pink reduces the contrast a bit
this is true
i have a few thoughts about it
wooden wedge
I wish we could keep the header somehow and not necessarily have everything be pink
have a smaller header on second page?
edgy flame
- shocking pink is pretty light, and we can switch up to richbrilliantlavender for even better contrast
- the system does do this in several places on basalt and chalk, notably Timeline pins and the music app are text on a colorful background
- i desire more pink and more pony
edgy flame
have a smaller header on second page?
could do, could do
wooden wedge
because like, you can do a significantly smaller circle on second page
exclude the header icon
edgy flame
wooden wedge
keep just the time in the header
just for the things bobby says that is: for full screen widgets I would keep full background
that would differentiate the two even better I think
my worry with that is that there is no good way to indicate YOU this way
edgy flame
YOU is a little boring but what icon could meaningfully and playfully indicate the whole person using it yknow
so youre thinking we give the text response pages a white background, but a pink header like a notification has?
wooden wedge
YOU is a little boring but what icon could meaningfully and playfully indicate t...
I was thinking
YOU
wooden wedge
it's impossible to read
wooden wedge
I don't know, I would have to try and fail a couple times
I do like that I managed to draw something that resembled it in google keep
edgy flame
it's a cute little pictograph for sure
i was honestly going to just leave user prompts basic
grey background and all. it's probably fine
wooden wedge
this might be a bit more viable if I manage to convey that form
karmic lion
Also consider: the rule is (now) that if something appears above the bobby header it is trustworthy, but if it appears below the bobby header it could be made up
This layout puts everything above the header
This is particularly interesting for timers, which can be in either place depending on the context
edgy flame
the thought for me was that anywhere the model decides to insert a widget, it would behave like a page break on round
karmic lion
That seems orthogonal?
wooden wedge
grey background and all. it's probably fine
anyway, I agree with this, I would only do something different for bobby
karmic lion
Or perhaps causitive
edgy flame
then i don't understand what you mean by 'above the header' here
karmic lion
By giving each widget its own page with its own layout, there is no defined start of response
Which is what the "Bobby" text is on rectangles
Before that: objective truth, things that happened. After that: things the model made up
But as far as I can tell you've reattached the "bobby" label to text responses, specifically
edgy flame
ah!
karmic lion
Most widgets can only appear after the "bobby" header because the app will never generate them, but timers can appear on either side - the app puts one there when it sets a new timer. And besides, following the rule would be nice.
I'm not overly attached to this because practically I don't think people can distinguish that some parts of a response are definitely true and others might not be
edgy flame
(my mental model was that everything in a little box was true, except maybe numbers sometimes, but now i am second guessing that)
karmic lion
The lie detector is to solve that (and to solve the issue where people don't notice the model lying about doing something because the confirmation prompt just didn't appear because nothing really happened)
Timers definitely count down, but the model gets to pick when exactly they count down to. You can probably get it to produce one without an associated timer if you try
Numbers are always from the model, weather is sort of from the model but it only gets to pick a layout and location
It never gets to make any of the things with a stripe on the left
But the thing that's actually consistent now is that the LLM response starts at the "bobby" header
I guess with the edge case exception of communication errors during the response, which will appear whenever the error was
wooden wedge
edgy flame
okay, what i'm hearing is that on rect, "Bobby" specifically denotes the start of the response. within a response, text and model-inserted widgets are not distinguished from each other, but the app itself can place widgets before the start of the model's response. This round design breaks that rule by associating "Bobby" with the start of any run of text, not the start of one [entire response] to one prompt
urban solstice
Big fan of the finger point, if perhaps a little "rude"
If all else fails, a microphone icon might be a decent stand-in
edgy flame
i still don't feel like i understand every reason a widget can happen
wooden wedge
I think you could have an indicator that bobby created a widget by adding a pink half circle at the very top
though, again, that indication relies on an object in a margin on an already tiny display
edgy flame
i am tentative about having top headers because we would probably run into screens with a peek at both the top and bottom
that ig get split into two screens
wooden wedge
you could also use left margin for icons or something, but that seems sacrilegious for round interface
edgy flame
ugh, the fact that it doesnt continuously scroll makes it so hard to denote starts and ends of anything
on a rectangle you can tell roughly how long a response goes for when it scrolls off the screen. on a circle you just have to keep scrolling until you find out
wooden wedge
you can specify the number of remaining pages, can't you?
idk if that's how notifications work on ptr
edgy flame
that is actually dropped from ptr!
the one bit of the firmware i can think of that has a meaningful page count is just gone on ptr
wooden wedge
that's not really surprising, but also annoying
edgy flame
this freaking watch, man
urban solstice
hear me out || yet I am braced for "eww" ||
wooden wedge
I was saying left side for that reason
I would do half circle on the left
but that feels like breaking the convention in ptr ui
urban solstice
mm, was about to say
edgy flame
it could work!
urban solstice
I appreciate this suggestion is a "new pattern" but it kinda works as a little bubble
edgy flame
wooden wedge
put the peeks there too
wooden wedge
no I mean
put them on the left too
put an icon under Bobby
we do have smaller icons that could work there
is that how timeline works on round?
edgy flame
edgy flame
is that how timeline works on round?
OH HANG ON ACTUALLY
wooden wedge
I'm so smart 🤓
edgy flame
timeline does something like this
wooden wedge
ew
urban solstice
only issue with timeline interface is that the "respond" action wouldn't make as much sense
wooden wedge
where's roundness
urban solstice
IDK about ew... it's giving speech, no?
wooden wedge
sure, but that seems like the designers gave up on making it look good
or making it look round
round = good after all
my favourite font is comic sans
edgy flame
wooden wedge
aw, I wish it would be circles
I would love more icons in the sidebar to indicate an action below
edgy flame
see i feel like having a circle at the edge of the screen communicates that theres an action you can take here
wooden wedge
yeah, fair
karmic lion
The lines make sense for timeline because it's representing navigating through a continuous line. This is not that. Especially if you do them both.