#Self-Destruct Should Have a Timer

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

sonic viper
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I have been seeing the self-destruct option be abused to essentially spend less time out of combat.
I'm not sure that is the intended use case.
Currently you can self-destruct immediately after being damaged. The respawn timer remains the same to dying in combat, regardless of damage level.

I believe there should be a reasonable timer after being damaged or healed before being able to self-destruct.
10 seconds?
Or perhaps players should spend longer waiting for a respawn if they self-destructed too soon

paper lily
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what if self destructing shortly after being damaged would still count as a kill for the player who caused the damage?

sterile swallow
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self destruct always count as a kill for the last bot did damage to you

sonic viper
bitter heart
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The self destruct timer does stack up

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One issue I can see is people just tapping someone to prevent them from self destructing

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Maybe a 5 second hold on the self destruct button would help already

sterile swallow
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well, i have an idea

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give bot a "time since last damage" timer, any damage taken reset it to 0 sec, when bot is killed, respawn time is reduced by lower one of "time since last damage" and 5sec.

toxic flame
bitter heart
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Yeah entirely fair

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5 seconds sounds short until you have to wait for it lol

toxic flame
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i take that from War thunder, when you're in a situation where your plane is about to crash and you have to wait 3 fckn seconds to eject, it's reeeaally long

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especially when your plane travels very quickly towards the ground

bitter heart
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Yeah, at least in this case it's not really about saving anything other than gameplay time

toxic flame
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yep

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or we could make the self destruct count

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like in crossout

sonic viper
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(this is the same for aircraft and in actual battles)

toxic flame
sterile swallow
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actually, i don't really see why press a button to kill the bot immediately should be prevented. maybe use it can make someone feels bad for not landing the final blow, but does it really matter. this is already means lost the encounter and enemies can turn to other targets even faster.

if the issue is there are players use self-destruct to reduce downtime, then we should make some changes like change respawn wait times, rather than preventing the player from doing self-destruct.

toxic flame
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i already missclicked the button once during a battle in the game

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without wanting to

sterile swallow
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you need to press esc to make the button appear and at the moment your cursor is in the middle of the screen, if this is still easy to unintentionally click, then the "return to garage" is not exempt either.

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unless you also bind it with a key and if that is the case, just unbind it

toxic flame
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i have it on a key yes

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and i like to have it on a keybind

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since i'm left handed, making the esc button quite far to reach

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we could set a timer of 1 sec

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that'd justify the existence of a keybind while avoiding missclicks

sonic viper
toxic flame
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it'd be faster to press the key than pressing escape then moving the cursor to press self destruct

sonic viper
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solution is right there

toxic flame
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again, i'm left handed, it'd be way faster for me to wait 1 second than having to press escape then moving my cursor to the button

sonic viper
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again

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watch the video

toxic flame
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i know the video

sonic viper
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You can have it both ways
ESC -> Self Destruct -> Are You Sure?
Self Destruct Keybind -> Are You Sure?

toxic flame
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why "are you sure ?"

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there is a confirmation button ?

sonic viper
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to prevent you from accidentally self destructing

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You said you know the video

toxic flame
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yeah, but i'd be even slower

sonic viper
toxic flame
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there is no confirmation when you J out

sonic viper
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Correct

toxic flame
sonic viper
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That's why there's a 3 second delay

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So you don't J out accidentally

toxic flame
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and this is more than enough to prevent a missclick

sonic viper
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I don't fly planes, grind is painful

toxic flame
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i agree with you on the 3 seconds delay part, it's way faster to go to the menu and press the button then the confirmation button

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but in 1 sec delay, there is a difference

sonic viper
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for Procelio

sonic viper
sterile swallow
bitter heart
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I think it's a reasonable question/request

sonic viper
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You could enable binds that allow multiple buttons

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this should solve the issue of accidental self destruction entirely

toxic flame
toxic flame
sonic viper
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make an feature request

toxic flame
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like shift+a ?

sonic viper
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Yes, like shift + J or FN + J or whatever you want

sterile swallow
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i bind self destruct to 0, a key that key that requires my either one hand leave its usual position to reach

toxic flame
sonic viper
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this reminds me, I wanted to make another post

sterile swallow
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solution of that issue can be make the game can bind escape to a key other than esc

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looks like my worry about the "return to garage" is not exempt becomes true

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i think the post is initially talk about self-destruct can be used to reduce downtime

scenic linden
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I have an idea to balance the self-destruct.
I abuse that a lot, in a 1v1 map after you make the kill and capture you can suicide to come back full HP because you have 30 seconds when there is nothing to do anyway.
Respawn time could have an increase proportional of your remaining HP left.
If you self destruct at 90% hp you are not doing for necessity but just to abuse the feature so you will have to wait an additional... 40% of the normal timer.
If you are 10-30% hp and basically unable to move or return to base you shouldn't be punished for self-destructing.
I would add this simple modifier to the timer that is not too punishing but still ensure that who is completely abusing it has to face a payoff.
Self-destruct above 50% hp increase the timer by the same percentage exceeding 50% hp.
example:
Self-destructing at 50% or below doesn't affect the timer. (12sec)
Self-destructing at 75% increase the timer to 125% (15sec)
Self-destructing at 99% increase the timer to 149% (18sec)

sterile swallow
sterile swallow
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i think the most fundamental reason is that when a bot is damaged to a certain extent, the player will simply abandon the bot and seek its immediate destruction, for a lower downtime, with or without self-destruct button isn't changing it.

sterile swallow
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i think the respawn time can be composed of multiple parts. multiple timer exists, and the highest one will be used as respawn time:

  • combat timer: time since last damage done or damage taken. heal someone cause own combat timer set to not lower than target. if a bot is killed while in combat in last 10sec, it takes 15sec to respawn; each second past 10sec reduces the 15sec respawn time by one second, down to 5sec.
  • bot fabrication timer: a counter start at 0, each death add 30 to it, decrease 1/s at all time, and a bot may not respawn if it is above 30; current value - 30sec will be used as respawn time if it is higher than other. this punish players who die repeatedly in a short period of time.
scenic linden
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you are in the middle of the map

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press a simple key to self distruct in 0 sec

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or go to the train station and wait for the train? or jump off a cliff that will take you 5-10 sec to get there and 3 to fall down

sterile swallow
scenic linden
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no ofc 15 sec more dont make any difference do they?

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you said: " isn't changing it."

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it would change things a lot

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but you know i prefer it as it is

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just saying it's wrong

sterile swallow
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have you even read what is the thing that i said self-destruct button isn't changing

scenic linden
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"i believe self destruct should not be different from any other types of death. even you just take this away, they can still find a train, a mine field, a death laser, a oob trigger, any other hazard or run into enemy cutters."

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that's what i answered

sterile swallow
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and you just decided put the two parts of the two sentences together

sterile swallow
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so just give it a rate limit, like making bots can only respawn twice per minute. there isn't have to be only one respawn timer, there can be many timers, then a bot need to wait all timers hits 0 to respawn, and the timer with the longest time is displayed on their UI.

sterile swallow
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punishing people for using the self-destruct button is too deliberate that only disgusting who attend combat without actually solve any actual issue that made people seek quick bot death in the first place.

scenic linden
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here i tested what you said about the max speed and the soft cap is there

image.png
sterile swallow
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and?

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why using self destruct on 99% hp is something should be punished in the first place. i don't see if there is any reason for using remaining hp percentage as the criterion of respawn time when killed by any means.

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and i think i have made it very clear why i disagree. what even is your u always have to disagree?

scenic linden
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why using self destruct on 99% hp is something should be punished? it comes with no surprice that the majority of polished and competitive games where suicide is a feature and mechanic of the game it comes with a malus. It's called balancing.
Self destruct is there SOLELY to allow a bot that cannot function to put end to it's misery or if you get stuck and shouldn't provide an advantage over going back to base to heal or getting your ally to heal you.
I am being reasonable, I love to just press a key and be full hp in a blink of an eye, but to be honest it's an ugly mechanic and everyone will use it in capture points.
I did not say that it need to screw your game if you abuse it, you just have to wait a couple of extra second as payment for being healed when you were surely functional enough to go back to base and heal.
I'd rather have auto heal than constantly see people around suiciding as soon as they realise to be in a unfavourible situation.
Ugly to watch, ugly to execute, ugly to receive as the enemy who is fighting someone who suicide, and all i proposed is to very very mildly discourage the abuse of it but to you it's unreasonable

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you wont even notice 3 second difference, if you really care about such a small balancing debuff it means you want to abuse every second of it or you don't get the point and necessity of balancing a game.

sterile swallow
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the issue of your just let your bot die is often better than return to base isn't what this topic is about. that one is also an issue, something that known to be hard to solve for long, and people were considering ideas like pickups, captured point converted to repair area, leech weaponry. however, increase respawn time to punish not returning to base, is not going to be one of them.

the issue we are talking about here is "things to be abused to lowering downtime". in addition this combined with bot with active modules with many charges or sheer secondary ammo capacity, can make very annoying builds. #1336900748541169676 message and here is one of my reason of why self destruct should not be prevented. so my suggestion is combat flag, respawn rate limit, parallel multiple timers.

you've made a long speech but your reasons don't conflict with what i said. and then how did you come to your suggestion of "using remaining hp percentage as the criterion of respawn time"? why remaining hp percentage of a bot should be measured for anything? why specific to self-destruct? you just saying "wont even notice 3 second difference", but only 3sec isn't making there's no deliberate punishment for using the self-destruct button; and if it really mean to be no big impact, then what are you even suggesting? from what i see, you don't even know what is being abused.

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look, i don't even remembering you were also the person calling "a bot cannot have higher thrust/mass ratio than a thrust/mass of a single thruster" is "not logical"

i disagree an idea just simply because i have my reason to disagree it, not because who post it. and, again, i made it very clear, you are not reading it isn't my issue.

now i just see when i disagree with the idea of "PSG is mandatory; imbalanced symmetric builds", the idea is also proposed by you. i can see you didn't even investigate the weight and CoM offset of PSG.

it just happen to all of these come from you. no offense.

scenic linden
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half of what you said if not true but after writing a long answer i realised it's pointless i am out. Have fun see you in game 👋

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is not*

sterile swallow
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how you are so confident that only yours are balancing and others' not, to claim that what i say is wrong without a single reason. what a waste of my time to explain what isn't going to be read and end up getting these ridiculous nonsense.

bitter heart
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Please keep it nice ^

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I'm not sure if it's the language barrier, but your arguments always come off as a bit hostile @ sii
Like there is no room for other solutions
Let's keep it friendly so people don't get discouraged when submitting things