#lost-ark-discussions
1 messages · Page 116 of 1




quitting after we get hell brel if they really are making it all unequalized gg



introduce rewards making it worthwhile to everyone and maybe more people will play it
but we have
fucking game devs
so unlucky
and watch almost 70-80% of the player base be unable to do it
apples =/= oraganges
if it has rewards worth the time more people will give it a shot
which is what they want
just becaues they want their last legion raid to be the pinnacle of difficulty doesn't mean that need to continue making eqaulized hell mode
it's under-played content
most people running it are already dedidacted hell-mode runners or people that enjoy challenging content, casuals and casual whales aren't gonna learn to "git gud"
and they make a far larger majority ofthe player base then the hell-mode enjoyers
yes and do you know why its unplayed?
because theres no fucking rewards so the community doesnt care
lol
first topg loot on js
extreme valtan worked as a "hell style" unequalized raid
not bad
idk why they cant just keep them seperate
give hell better rewards to get more players to play it
yes, because people get to enjoy the part of mmos that's fun (the gearing and growing stronger)
if hell-mode enjoyers where a bigger community, then sure w/e cater to both
but as i said we have
devs who are just gonna cater to the whales who pay 3/4ths of their paycheck
so gg
but they are a money focused company and don't see the return that designing equalized-hellmode does compared to un-eqaulized
bro
the reason hell mode doesnt get traction is because theres no reason to play it right now
the reason is a title
thats pure bullshit
and people still wouldn't run it outside of the dedicated
but everyone and their mom will complain about
People already complain about their "homework" with raiding
no causal is gonna mix-max hell runs to boost their gold gains when a run can take an hr to several hours
all that happens
is the hell-mode enjoyers just make more and more
the game obviously isnt being catered towards casuals anymore
so i dont see your point
It will
They want kazeros nm to be in line with current nm raids
Baby raids for casuals like me

Hell kazeros will be for whales in kr
A big event
World's first race
And nothing for mizu
Cause not enough mizus
Sorry bro
Yes it is, and they are making a lot of changes already and going forwward that is accomodating them as opposed to the "hell moders"
omg woah another worlds first race of peopel with 3mil wallets buying estehr 29 with max elixir and max transcendance all skipping every mech

This happens to every MMORPG because the death of an MMORPG is by making it too niche, you don't make revenue from niche, you make revenue from accessible
yep
also (yes, you're allowed w/e opinion you have on anything) but pepega take when you only recently started hellmoding
you didn't care about it when they already announced they weren't doing any more eqaulized hell-mode raids

what does jsut recently starting it have to do with anything
If barely 1% of the playerbase is even touching that content it is literally just taking up space and nothing more.
because i havent watched gr streams in ages
so i didnt know?
It was known with extreme valtan
Smg trying to appeal to everyone (casuals, whales etc) except the people who want the current hell modes to continue, which unfortunately is a minority
They could very easily remove it/rework it into something else that more people may actually interact with. Also your earlier suggestion of "Just give it better rewards" would then evolve it into near mandatory content because it actually rewards something and MMORPG gamers are ravenous for rewards of any kind. Look at Jumpstart.
you can easily do both

you can have convincing rewards without making it mandatory content
better rewards =/= 200k gold
Tell me why 1540 people still do valtan
cards maybe
Farming cards
Or at least it is a very difficult thing to accomplish so why try 1000 times wasting all that time?
cards, and some people just enjoy valtan
For kazero's legion commander for kayangel card set but also other cards too

I forgot kayangel
why try wasting your time with jump start?
becuase theres a chance it can work

Jumpstart was always going to overall work, but they just needed other restrictions to make it really work well but that was in the form of the opposite of adhering to the tryhards.
Also they had already seen the success a "fresh" experience can be with New World.
i am tempted to gather like 1k mokokos for some reason
horizontal enjoyer
Because regardless of anyones opinion on the game itself, that was a smart thing to do. Needed it. Just as Jumpstart was needed, it just needed to be refined more in regards to who they let actually play on it
so they
tried it
and it worked
not like i can do much gameplay rn lol
Sure, and they've been trying Hell Mode and its still not being played a lot.
it would also be considerably easier to try and up rewards at first then rework it as a whole
what? dont wanna collect 400 mokokos in a session?
Adding more rewards won't fix that, and unless the rewards are in the form of gold, materials, or something substantial other than titles the majority of people still will not care

valtan is the best legion raid they made imo
nerd
every raid has been worse than valtan comparatively
and even then, it'll just push the causals out
^
cause why run with someone that is a guranteed 7+hr run
with you can play with only sweats
need another vykas run 
so? its clearly not aimed at casuals lol
not looking too good though

another useless day 
Yeah, we know. And it isn't touched by like 90% of the community because of it.
more like 99.9%
i got 1 coin today you cant complain
One day brother one-
Sure
Hence why keep it around? Can actively make more room for something more people will engage in
when hell mode valtan first came out i assumed you had free consumes but then i found out you dont was instant no from me
yh ff14 and wow should remove ultimates/mythics since such a small % of the pop engage with it
agreed
ultimates in ff14 works because it has rewards that make people have more incentive to do it then just a funky title
remove artillerist too barely anyone plays it
exclusive weapons mounts ect
A good deal of players still engage in those, at least mythics at lower scales, also FFXIV doesn't have nearly the same kind of gear treadmill system so the rewards don't come into play as an overall issue.
hence the reason giving it better rewards is fundamentally a good possible fix
for it

whatever
obviously we should rework the system as a whole instead of even attempting to give it a fix 
I mean u own the game so do something bezos
even if they added more cosmetics to hell mode only a small % of people will ever do it, same with ultimates/mythic raiding. participation is low since its inherently just hard. i raided top 100 in wow and i cant recall anyone actually caring about any cosmetic rewards lol, rather just people who want to do hard content
my cat is getting fatter 
this db lost the level 10 gamba 
If the most coomer outfits were in hell mode, I’d do it.
i know a good chunk of people in ff14 who raid for the exclusive skins ect
Yeah but thats you.
whats the point of just 1 level 10 gem
That game is transmog the MMORPG to be fair, though
surge makes up like 50-60%? of surge Db dps
yes that does not mean its a viable fix that WILL work for everygame
but i dont see any reason not to give it a shot
lvl 10 maelstrom cd where

there is a simple reason
it is maelstrom
they just see justification for the cost
for the return
when the return is already low
They have the capacity, but whether or not they view it as worthwhile for the investment is a different story.
the return is already low was NEVER an incentive to do them
unless you were a gigachad I WANNA DO HARDEST RAID player since d1
but doesnt matter, hell mode will be super cringe now anyway if its gonna be unequalised so just buy a carry LUL
hence no one does it currently
Why waste the men hours and dev time
yh man theyre an indie company im sure they cant afford it
for potentially moving the hell-mode pop from like 2%( made up number) to 4%
why waste the men hours and dev time making extreme valtan
When is lost ark coming to ps5
cause it actually had majority of the community interacting with it
and not just droppingit after 2 weeks
why waste dev hours improving any function in thegame
XD
Smilegate? The not publicly traded Smilegate over in South Korea?
never, no plans to
why waste dev hours updating any part of the game and implementing qol to make stuff better to play
not smilegate are a poor company, that why you need to buy more skins and esters so they can afford to run the game
why waste any dev hours on content that doesnt milk the players wallets
cause there's no player retention there
this game has no player retention since its fundamentally a terrible game for basically anyone starting new
wont change since its a p2w KRMMO wcyd

Thats not really true, actually. Its only been getting better for newer players, especially with the Jumpstart servers. Gatekeeping is an issue still but thats more a result of the reward hungry crazies looking to get a leg up every chance they can get.
ping me in 1month after fresh start players quit
Thats alot of players
and most of them will probably quit when they notice that honing is a slug after 1540
and they wont be able to do anything unless they sell their life away to thegame
imma be real, fresh start players have no effect on me, since I'm playing normal
btw it was already hovering above 30k before fresh start
fix the game jeff bezos, you own amazon 
Its been hitting 50k+ every day since Jumpstart opened up
whatever 
They should release it on the switch
that's how it goes
it's a niche game
thanks tree 
the game is good for new players if youre unemployed. Id never recommend this game to anyone lol
hell is a niche mode but it has no players
No, not that either.
so lets delete it
yes and yes
ESO is super niche and shit and is one of the top 5most played mmos (im quite sure)
Delete lost ark with no refunds. Just take your money
The game is bad for new players since mechs are too punishing. in wow (cant speak for ff14 since im not a weeb), only a handful of mechs in the highest pug difficulty (heroic) will just cause a full raid wipe. And 1 2% of raid dying early doesnt make the raid impossible (unless a tank and half healers are dead). The lost ark mechs are too stressful for most players if one person can wipe the whole raid
So is GW2, BDO as well. You realize the top 2 spots of that would probably be WoW and FFXIV in terms of population and they very likely surpass third place by several tens of thousands of players.
If not probably being the only two MMORPGs that may still be hitting 1 million concurrentish
We know BDO isn't, or ESO, or GW2
yh and? both are still niche MMOs. gw2 completely horizontal with basically zero vertical progression, and bdo heavily vertical and no real raids or dungeons (im quite sure)
GW2 just does a good job at keeping people clustered up in their shards for the megaservers
and lost ark does a bad job in every section of the game
so its obvious they are gonna keep doing that
gg
tru
idk why i even take time out of my day to complain about this game its a rinse repeat cycle
I liked the combat at least
I'm saying 30k-50k players is not a bad number. But people still think you have to hold 600,000+ people in an MMORPG on a daily basis and that is just not how it works anymore
yh lol, this game (and like every KR mmo) has the best and most fun combat, and like every KR mmos suck everywhere else
sg do bad update = devs apologize and say theyll do something slightly good = sg does "good" update = community happy for 3 weeks = sg does bad update = devs apologize
I think you need to take a nap, the hell mode stuff has clearly gotten you riled up. Possibly justifiably since it sounds like its something you enjoy in its current iteration.
TERA was KR i think and the combat was insane
if that's how the cookie crumble, then it crumbles
you can only fuck up so many times before people give up

~As has been said about many MMORPGs
KNow how often you'd hear that about BDO? What happened the last few months? Whole horde of people flocked over to it for a while cuz of updates
Blade and soul used to be my favorite combat 
i wish failing a mech didnt wipe the raid. Imagine if it just gave you a dmg debuff+healed boss to try to force boss enrage instead.
"The next WoW killer" "WoW is dead with the upcoming release of ------ " "WoW players are jumping ship for FF 14, Blizzard fucked up"
^
its insane just how many KR mmos have combat that is the best in the market
Woah, I thought I’d get gatekept from Brel 1-2 without 5x3 
why dont western devs do it 
But I’m getting accepted 
There is no game anymore that is going to hold all the people in it, that was WoW back in like 2007-2010, again...not how that works anymore.
Istg, people say dead game or dying game every waking moment for bdo
brel gate 1 and 2 is so chill
isnt bdo gameplay open world grinding just to upgrade gear so you can open world grind more
Not a very high APM leaning kind of MMORPG gamer community, unfortunately
Mhmm
yes
People like that
bdo combat is so insanely good but everything else is so shit man
They like having a carrot to chase
you grind to upgrade to grind slightly better gains to upgrade again
rinse and repeat
Tried the new bdo region and bosses and didn’t even realized I stopped playing a while lol
like bdo actually has the best idk what its called like third person combat
third person action combat idk lol but its so fun
action-combat
In...theory, sure. In execution in PvP at least its...ick
desync, TTK, all garbage
yh pvp is lol i imagine
fish for 1 cc, blow up target, fun pvp 
ESO has some of the worst combat ive ever experienced in an action MMO everything has no weight and etc. bdo its instantly you can tell like yh this combat is good
KR devs always winning in that regard
I hate ESO combat. It feels like janky crap
But its audience mostly doesn't notice because...casuals
yh lol, all the animations feel flat
ESO hard carried by the fact its elder scrolls
only reason i played it so long tbh
Well that and to make melee actually work well enough you have to sort of "exploit" an "intended but not really intended" function and animation cancel heavy attacks and shit
lots of Elder scrolls lore didnt even exist until they made eso i think
yh animation cancelling is super cringe, and open world is faceroll easy (which is what most people do)
While trying to do animation cancelling you can tell it is not an intended function of the game but its left there because it needs to be left there
zenimax are just bad lol they make smilegate look good
ESO pvp used to be actually insanely fun 
wait does anyone even play lost ark pvp
now that i think about it
is it basically completely dead
Mhmm like most MMORPG PvP is
i remember i used to do it for weekly during release and getting combo locked by artillerist
Thats why PvP centered MMOs don't work all that well, and its why you rarely see heavy investment into open world free ganking PvP anymore
Most people do not want to deal with it, and it also attracts the worst personalities
the best pvp is siege/objective based pvp. just pure kill pvp is shit
yh definitely lol, if you played classic wow there were basically loads of unemployed lowlives who'd perma gank low level players for hours and hours everyday
Can you refuse to || go to Beatrice and complete the 7th ark || ? (story spoiler)
u cant
decisions dont matter in this game
if u refuse it in the dialog it will just make u go through the dialog again
is it the kayangel quest that needs you to do that
no it just has its own special dialogue
where ||kadan yells at ur ass for being fucking stupid||
im pretty sure


@nova garden u need brel buses? doin 1-3 buses 
Yeah

Undercut the other person


why cant i uncheck this
i spy a rider
skill issue


you’re in for a treat
How you know it’s me?
Rosey prolly gonna ninja afk for 10 mins in the middle of this
Xdd
Wdym you added me
LOL
My friend that begged me to play started on it.
(He didn’t make it past feiton)

tbh i didnt even know bergstorm existed till right now
I know like three burger storm people in this discord.
classic rosey afk already
its not me bruhge
While I know zero shandi players. Burger storm better

zheng
zheng is shandi
hmm maybe shandis the lucky server
its so depressing seeing learning parties listed for clown, do people even join them i see them up for so long
People use guilds or discord for learning parties. Pug learning parties are jailge and you’re not gonna learn shit.
poor guys
G3 soon
1 - 3 parties have the better, more experienced players
Nah, I buy bus now.
After trying to raid and clearing 3 g1-2 this week, I’m done.
I’ve concluded I don’t like raiding.
Oof
where can i find a guide on updated brel gate 3 ?
does thaemine nm has achieve or title
for clearing g3
I just find it strange that they say multiple times the player needs to make a decision (after kayangel dungeon) and then the decision doesn't matter.
i mea the new gate 2 is old gate 3 so should i be looking at guide for 4 then ?

Just call it by the new gate number, it's too confusing
There's not an updated guide from what I know
It's just 1 star, 2 square and 2 diamond now instead
u and ur 2 alt accs?
Is d6 not

A thing
Sottac and Day are both bergstrom
susge
Sottac is in my guild bro
Returning player, so I got him in. He wanted to raid, and my guild is filled with raid goblins.
sus
Sus

On my the main people I play with on our discord is from berg
Bro, I showed you a screenshot of the raid schedule.

doing my tome finally
Shit is cancer
eh im already this far without doing much lol
i remember doing the snails in rohendel...
i had to pity
I gave up
oh my god im so fucking bored
bruh i fucked up on Azena rapport
yeah i didnt get there lol
theres stock in local game store apparently
i dont like xbox the fuckin controller needs a4 battery and its not rechargeable
another satisfied customer 
Nah man
did you get started on the una's task?
iirc one of them requires a una's task to be compelted
this is white glove service
dont think so
is it worth making alts on jump start
unless the una is repairing the seal site
the pain....
i feel like that shit is gonna take months
im too lazy for rapport tho
you think you lazy for rapport lol
and the purify
mhm
to cleanse myself of my sanity
did u do like rotations for most of them nd did the emote/music ones for the day or nah?
i should do it but i forget
now that i got ps5 i cant go massage next week, living frugally 
be sure to get the legendary rapport items tho
from merchants and such
mhm i need to start buying those
you can get 2 per merchant time frame
tryin to squeeze 1k out of hard blue collar workers


also if you're done with rapport, you can always turn the rapport items into vitameow
i buy cards sometimes but forget the rapport haha
i also dnt buy all the cards just some
shold prolly buy it all tbh
@nova garden its 5k now


What do you need ps5 for
nba 2k24
and i dont like xbox controller
my hand hurts when i play using xbox controller
never happened on playstations
My hands just hurt when using a controller in general.
Why not get it on PC and use ps5 control
elgacia cooking
i remmeber being stupid
oh
and i thought the beans that you got from harvesting were the ones you needed
i didnt know i had to right click them
i got more than i needed because i thought it was 2 per pod so i collected 50
new gen only on console
Fuсk man
Yikes
wait do i need to kill them?
Why can’t fish go back up 
yep
have fun with that one 😢
I had to do it for an hour or something before i got them
Paying full price for a shit game 
?
We're you the one that landed on the moon
100 dollars every 2 years 
100 dollars every 2 years 
its a great game 
these guys worked very hard to make it
turtles gonna take longer
how much is it now
turtles?
mf
oh you're not allowed to 1 shot
I want it to get to around 300-350 before I liquidate it.
i spent around 100k on renewing my scrapper lol
how long did it take you ? @empty sleet for the turtle essence>
im still doing it
i need to reorder my gems soon
In the Kayangel cutscene: What is meant by the statement || The ark is not hope. It's sacrifice ||?
It's hinted the Arks are not some magically mcguffin device to fix everything and will require a great sacrifice to use and seal demon man away again
just mail me them 
@empty sleet
i finished it in like 10 mins
i didnt know the small turtles can give them too
Did you run with Brian?
He's a good player
BRIAN
also for the rapport chests does it really matter which item i pick? i see some say X person would love this, does that give more rapport to that person or it means nothing?
id wait until you get a bunch and wait until you get more of rapport items (not chests ) and so you can rapport bomb someone
#Lostark #guides
Hey boys, world first clear of thaemine has happened. I know cpt jack personally so I've asked him if it's okay to watch and react to this with my viewers to give my viewers some knowledge about the raid. Hope you guys lke it, and huge respect to them to their motivation!
Original vid : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIGVfras...
nah no support or dps lol too lazy to set up team
ill just skip kayangel this week



mfs gonna spend so much time on virtual basketball 
i failed my rapport bomb...
oh right yeah you have to pay for all your characters
feelsbadman

omfg, not this palce again

oh i thought that was feiton
Has g4 thaemine cleared yet
Chat it was my one year anniversary today
most helpful and informative mod

No way
if I knowledge transfer to north vern what are the requirements for me to then knowledge transfer again to south vern or punika ?
Gold
the ilvl of that region and gold

ah nice ty


do i log on for guild island
yes

only 1
if you mean the one from the una daily
You will get that 300k ancient accesory today
with a 200k bracelet 
well thats perfect then
first chest i got it and it’s apparently rare
its incredibly rare some people go for weeks without getting it lol
gratz
fuck im late
back to 1 mil gold. feelgood 

looks like all my luck went to this damn meat and not my honing/drops
infinite gold via bussing, you bought legendary skins, honed 1600, and still have 1mil lol

i dont have 5 1600 alts

you have 6
false i have 0
starting to look like i might not have 1600 alts either, all my hones bricking lately
isnt ur alt arti alrdy 1600
SUSGE
why did u even run nm on him this week lol shoulda just ran hm

an alt to 1600 is like 300k in mats and gold 
his the only one thats hitting, i had to run normal, remb i paid 3.7k for that scam box to get enough mats to make the final piece for 1600
🐳
not if ur zheng
its free if ur zheng
just 1 tap


man
more like 60-70% tap lately for everything, its making me not wanna play the game anymore
pisses me off when you get attacked by a mob, interrupts what you're doing and then they become invincible
i missed medelia

1 day stew
uh no

600 mill
uh huh

probably 1 mill silver 600 mill gold
true
500m in fish
fuck i have sorc left for kayangel

thought u ran them all
wat the

later
What is good dps for a 1540 surge db?
its about how big ur surge is
then

what is a good dmg per screenshot for a 1540 surge db
probably ask in #deathblade
my surges are always smol
no access
same
yea get the deathblade role in id:customize
then u can see the deathblade chat
ty
my db is only 1460 

double nightmare back to back
man i just wanna sleep
is it rmt if it's just family business?

how much does the gunslinger coomer set cost
eventually i need to buy some legendary skins, once i have all gems and everything honed up
Should be like 200k
buy for ur arti
250 maybe if the bottoms are expensive

And then you don't crit
prolly down to like 70-80k a piece

or you can be like me and spend 120k to go from 14-17 and run out of all bounds
Or like me and run out of all reds and spend 35k gold tapping 13-14 on weapon
Full pity
craft wep last 
Can I sell her 9/7 for 2m gold?
If I never touched my Soulfist from 1560
I would have like
1.2m gold back

because soulfist is fun
I’m trying to make a 25 Brel weapon
why would you do that

yea
Clearly planned it so he has to do more horizontal progresssion
tbh it doesnt rlly matter
ill prolly be able to make up that charisma by the time i finish the rest of my skill points
and plus i dont really need it too much cause 6 omniums is kinda far still
if you are lacking charisma, play a song every time you are waiting for something
just get the stats, its a slow grind but something u gotta do anyways
most of the stats comes from 100% diaries with those side quests
i wonder if those people sees shit in slow motion or smth lol
clearing thaemine without esther
i mean ill be able to get that extra 6 skill points after getting the omnium star reward
theres also slayer +8 in naw
soul eater esther day 1 ezpz
slayer is just really good value right now
2 days in a row too
both spec viable
LMAO
you want to clear shit fast go punisher, predator also do really good dmg on prog
if you want to esther 8 that class is the best choice
esther 8 db
nah both of them are esther 6

how much does that even cost in USD?
Its like $25000?
i'd rather have the biggest fuckfest in dubai than buying e+8 for db holy shit
wait but db is doing really well on prog

dude could become a real athlete and chose to play lost ark in obscurity instead
you know, i seen on ilvl db lvl 9 surge gem doing 15.1m on akkan before
its crazy how much damage they can do when played perfectly 
Hii
Hii
Hi?
finally

WHERE TO GET IT
I NEED THE STICKER

imma kiss you if you tell me
me meow that's right

stop owo spin
why are you also default disc pic gang now

I'll bizz on everyone

wha?
yes
yes
what?
whats wrong
45k 1 trade 
you better want that chestplate then
what even is that
legendary outfit
i meant for who
soulfist
oh
in Akkan G3 do pools spawn when people increase their disease (green) bar or only when they receive a stack?
at least you got an outfit
its a pass outfit

I need new outfit for my soulfist and shadowhunter
and maybe one for my slayer
I went from having a variety of colors to wearing literally all black
I was coerced by chuan
dont want booba anymore?
my SH building extends to placing bunch of beds around with npcs in them and slot machines in between
perfection
#black-
changed my scrapper build
i swear to god if it still do 0 dps
im gonna choke a bitch
shock?
tai
did you not get the neck? lol
tai 
oh its swiftness cd
I need new hairstyles

here soon
they have to buff PS SH more

How can they make it so DI does more dmg
as a 2 gem spec
make it a 3 gem spec 
Theres no reason for me to play entropy PS
and deal 10% less damage
while sniffing ass 100%
and running into giga mana problems
what
how would they do that 
additonally to that I would like to also know if supports can stay in mid at 140x mech (Akkan G3) to generate bar for buff or is this not possible / recommended?
not possible
you can hit him for like 2s after he tps mid
but becomes invuln right after
so no way to get bar in this phase except stimulant?
DI so good atm
theres nothing to hit.
DI is nice because its giga cheap
just do statue and /drinktea
fluid cat
All my char still at 1580
lol
passive ilvl
I am trying to figure out more ways to optimize for dmg in Akkan G3 (HM). If anyone has more tips, it is highly appreciated 😄
om second g4 clear
surely i dont pity my next two taps to 1600 

hit the boss
get grabbed by all the grab pattern
100% free dps
xd
Woah
You're 1600?
man I should've fought dumbsin on those chests
where you get them
earring 
am i that down bad i sell this for the 5M silver
i guess u can always buy it back later 
if you selling it to begin with you never buying it back 
maybe ill be silver rich one day 
the mountain club gave up i think @dull obsidian
yes I think this is actually worth to do
even after getting a video of what to expect?
There's a special quest for this after voldis apparently

oh there is a 2nd clear?
Yeah a non esther group
damn
what a weird number of orehas to give
39
if they are still playing
One of the lower geared groups
perhaps its all equal in either mats to craft them or value? idk
oh dem ill keep it then
this guy
Oh him
his gs in hell brel release was legendary
is that his name?
lmao
its them or the olaf group now
but well
Let Olaf group perish prayge
0 legendaries 
yeap
how did they do the stagger and stuff?
its a non streaming non esther group
man
why tho
Toxic
also a RE db
oh wait
Prayge
its this guy
he plays EP 3
I copied his build
surely saint one shots g4 right here 

Almost everyone has EP3 in that gate 
the only thing you never copied is his skill
its 2 stat 2 line
stat really doesn't matter
87 spec

g4.5 man






















