#add karma or points for helping

118 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

eternal wasp
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I've seen this system in other servers like this one and I think it's a good additional incentive for more people to help (and that's always good)

If not an incentive it's a good way to show appreciation as a community for those people.

Here's the basic way it works:

  • If someone helps someone else, the other person can mention the helper and say "thanks" (or other variations) in the message, which will make the bot add +1 karma point to that person.

  • every X period of time, server could announce leaderboards for karma for year/month/week etc, and this can also be accessible by a command

  • after a long enough time, distinguished people who helped a lot can get a special "helper" role, it can have various perks (for ex: like maybe getting 1 separate announcement of their game or project with a ping)

  • also they can have the icon next to the username

strange sigil
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Not a fan of the need to mention somebody in the proposed implementation

rare mantle
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this is a fun idea! I like it. Not sure how else the bot would know how to award karma if no mentions would used.

eternal wasp
eternal wasp
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so instead of replying or mentioning and saying "thanks" you can use command like !thanks <UserID>

strange sigil
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And having an extra option to use the user id in a command would run into the same issue as reply pings where people would just not remember to not ping

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And it'd be a real shame if I had to stop helping people in order to avoid even more pings

small canyon
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I'm not totally down with the gamification of helping people. The biggest problem I can see is infighting between "power helpers". The reason you've stopped seeing "employee of the month" programs in workplaces is that people inevitably get way too into the competition, and it quickly turns into a warzone where everyone is trying to be the "best" at any cost, and the customer ultimately gets worse service.

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And that's in a workplace, with (presumably) vetted employees that are trained to be professional in their work. This is a public space where anyone can come in, help some folks, and get pissy when someone helps someone better.

winged pagoda
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I'm not a fan of this, I help to both learn more and to see other people grow. Adding an artificial incentive would reduce quality of help and would make it a chore / less gratifying to see their success. Additionally if someone doesn't give you points, it could create resentment.

steel iris
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I agree with @small canyon and @winged pagoda on this one. The incentives to help people already exist (kindness, testing your knowledge, returning the favour, getting validation in some cases, etc). Creating a 'clout' incentive feels inauthentic and comes with a slew of issues as other have already mentioned.

sweet lantern
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Yep, we don't have a shortage of helpers

eternal wasp
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I think it's not necessarily shortage of helpers but it would increase how much each person would help in general, and it would also have something to show for how much someone's helped. All the other incentives aren't going to go away but they're also not equally important for everyone.

regarding it being too much of a competition I think is possible but a bit of a stretch, I haven't seen any issues with this being used in other (similar) servers.

Also if having points etc reduces your own gratification of other people's success that would be odd (imo)

strange sigil
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This is just a proven thing
Extrinsic motivation very often ruins intrinsic motivation

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Also it would be a system issue because the easier way would be to ping people, just like with replies

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Overall I'm against this

manic walrus
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And I would never bother

manic walrus
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And don't care whether they're actually helpful

eternal wasp
eternal wasp
manic walrus
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Whar

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A bad solution is not a non working solution

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But eg reimplementing something worse that already exists in the engine

eternal wasp
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people give the best solution that they know either way, with or without the incentives they could suggest bad solutions

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I think ya'll overthinking how much people will actually think about the system, it'll exist for some incentive and reward so to speak, but not necessarily as something that people will obsess over and create bad advice etc

manic walrus
manic walrus
eternal wasp
manic walrus
eternal wasp
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you can say that there are "enough" helpers, and at the same time having more interaction in the server/godot is good

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I don't think there will be anyone who only wants to grind the points themselves, and if there are they're unlikely to do so for long

strange sigil
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This would be a system for a server with over 100k people in it, of course you have to think a lot about it and also consider edge cases

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And you cannot just dismiss the downsides with "I think that wouldn't happen"

eternal wasp
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well I don't just think it won't happen, I saw it not happening in other servers

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that aren't 100k but less than 20k

strange sigil
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Servers that we know nothing about

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you also have to consider the moderation aspect

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it'd be a lot of work to make sure the system isn't abused

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and in your eyes that would be for just "an additional thing"

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and if you don't moderate it it becomes pointless

eternal wasp
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also godot server is 100k+ members haha

strange sigil
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It would be interesting to know what those servers are that you mention

eternal wasp
eternal wasp
strange sigil
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what kind of community are they, what situation are these points used in

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how many servers are you talking about

eternal wasp
strange sigil
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two? three?

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While I'm against this system myself anyway, I think you need a better argument against the downsides than "I rarely saw it happen"

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and again, this would potentially be for more than 100k people

eternal wasp
strange sigil
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That's what I said

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also turn off the reply pings

small canyon
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Then if you tell these people, it becomes one of those awkward UberEats situations where you're asked point-blank to "leave 5 stars" or whatever, and it sends a message that this help you were offered was done not because you asked for help, but because the person got some points out of it. It's an off feeling for the helped person.

small canyon
# eternal wasp yeah and again, this server is 100k+ members already

I think there's a slight misunderstanding here. I think Capry is insinuating that the idea won't work in a server of this size, and simply worded it in a different way. With this many people, more joining every day, and so many of them younger or otherwise less "socially aware" people, a system like this is going to be a lot easier to abuse.

eternal wasp
# small canyon This would require that people who need help with their code use a command. Ther...

99.999% won't need to use that command, after you got the solution you'd just reply or mention the user in the next message with included word "thanks" in it, and they get karma.

regarding UberEats, tbh I haven't seen in servers that use it where people actually ask for the karma. It also doesn't really matter why someone helped as long as they helped, but I highly doubt people would help just because of points, "help" is in the name and you can help anyhow, it's still help

sweet lantern
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The problem is people helping for the sake of it, even when they really don't have much to say

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people have enough incentive to help at the moment and "commercializing" it would make a mess

small canyon
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It seems like you're proposing a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

eternal wasp
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well sure it's not a problem, it's an improvement

sweet lantern
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I don't see how that would improve the server

mystic summit
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I know it's sort of different, but I've been in a multiplayer game that tried using a karma system to improve roleplaying, and all it did was make a headache for admins to deal with karma trading and karma begging, while sorta driving down any incentive for people to roleplay if they weren't gonna get any points out of it.
On top of just like, feelings of elitism, burnout, and imposter syndrome for people who couldn't get anything no matter how much they put effort into things.

strange sigil
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Diet capitalism damn

proven sleet
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I think this is an interesting idea, but one thing is that some people wouldn't like the constant pings. One suggestion is that instead of pinging people when they announce their game, they could have access to some special channel that they could post it in only for other 'elite' helpers.

sweet lantern
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tbf if we want a way to reward the most active helpers I think there's better ways of doing it

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like just having staff do it manually

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but again, idk if something like that would be beneficial or harmful to the server's community feel

eternal wasp
sweet lantern
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and what if the person doesn't say thanks?

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or any other keyword

eternal wasp
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it's not for those people anyway

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it would act as an extra incentive not the only incentive

sweet lantern
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so it would be an inconsistent system

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not even doing its purpose half of the time

manic walrus
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also what about if someone says thanks in another context

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or to exploit the system

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i see no point in this

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no advantages

small canyon
eternal wasp
sweet lantern
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still, there remains the question: how would that improve the server?

eternal wasp
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also on the server I am in that does this when they type 'thanks', there's a default reminder by the bot to do it that they can turn off

sweet lantern
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it's not like we have a shortage of people helping

eternal wasp
manic walrus
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this is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist

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and if it starts needing moderation

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eg through people cheating the system

sweet lantern
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I dunno, I'm a frequent helper and I don't think such incentive would make things better in any way

eternal wasp
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it's not a solution, it's a suggestion

manic walrus
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that's a problem caused by a solution to a problem that doesn't exist

small canyon
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I'm also a frequent helper. And you already know my take on this idea.

sweet lantern
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it'd just flood the place with people who are helping for the sake of points, which would mean people getting worse answers

manic walrus
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^

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internet points help nobody

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see reddit

eternal wasp
manic walrus
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please explain a good reason to have this

sweet lantern
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we have an unwritten rule here that if you don't wanna help then just leave it for someone who does, which is why statements such as "google it" aren't welcome
(unless its written somewhere idk)

small canyon
manic walrus
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what's the point tho

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of adding it

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if they're gonna stop anyway

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what's the point?

small canyon
# manic walrus internet points help nobody

As an aside, it's yet another source of dopamine for people to have to filter out. Which is already a huge challenge for many of us creative types trying to get our games made.

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I know you're just looking to add a bit of fun to the place, with an aside of making it more functional, but the cons vastly outweigh the pros on this one, methinks.

proven sleet
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I agree

ember pier
manic walrus