#Rename #gamedev-nsfw and open moderation feedback more.

348 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

pallid otter
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For an example of a tolerable meme would be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lly1iJti09s

YouTube
N30X
LBP create mode vs Minecraft creative mode

the original video on the bottom right:
Lbp3 - creating a forest (eyecandy)
video link: (can't find anymore for some reason give me the link in the comment section if you found it)

Music used in the video:
Gotye - Somebody That I Used To Know - Trap by VelvetCasca (Extended Version)
video link:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4FF7x8vnZg

Tags:...

▶ Play video
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this is a grey area if it would fit in #gamedev-memes due to being development in games

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not the development of games

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people need clarification

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this is too confusing for development in games

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thonking thonking also will point out these two emoji are duplicates

pallid otter
honest creek
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You might be able to make a separate post about the duplicated emojis

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Also I think there was a general meme channel at some point but it got the boot?
Or I might be thinking of the general offtopic.

south rain
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There is a pin in #gamedev-memes explaining exactly why those memes got booted

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And personally I very much agree with the reasoning

pallid otter
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So Among US is offensive

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Gotcha

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Got to post twerking among us gifs elsewhere

pallid otter
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It is on gamedev but inside of precompiled games

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LBP is arguably like godot in how people make entire games in it

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Even before logic gates people made whole calculatiors

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Entire Pokémon games are ported to LBP 2 / 3

image0.jpg
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Are memes revolving development inside games gamedev memes?

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LBP has 2 hour long movies in the LBP 2/ 3 engines

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It puts gmod to shame

south rain
normal yoke
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If in doubt, don't post a meme. The world won't end due to a meme not posted

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As for this specific meme, I can't watch videos right now so no idea. But generally development memes are kinda fine.

pallid otter
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I really disagree with saying memes are likely to be offensive

pallid otter
south rain
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This server is a breath of fresh air at least to me for exactly the reason of those kind of memes not being anywhere near as frequent

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So in my opinion it's not a good idea to allow memes, not only because of the potential harm but probably also because of the potential extra moderation required with how many people frequent this server and especially #general

pallid otter
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I am pretty sure memes like this prove the acceptance of queers in society

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Growing up in the Southern US, lesbians are everywhere as well

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The place known for the most racist history in the Civil War is home to the most black people in the US

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The real issue with isms at the moment is people are trying to be overly positive to groups which hurts.
Think of how Asian Americans are stereotyped to be "good at math"

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Many places have race quotas for hiring and suffer consequences of hiring for skin instead of merit

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Sometimes things like Ducan Lemp or William Jennette's deaths can be overshadowed by focusing too hard in one area

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That is what is grossly offensive

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It turns safe places into echo chambers

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Discord has adequate automod features as well as bots.

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If you feel uncomfortable, take a break

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I also get tired of people saying I am the victim any time I mention my race or anything about myself

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If they call me slurs, not my problem

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Most people are just sad little people on the inside trying to make themselves look big

pallid otter
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I don't want this to sound harsh or bugging either

pallid otter
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People keep asking if I am autistic, I probably am, but still want to do my best in communities

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I also moderate a server
One of the admins in a server I mod sat me down and said that
my job on that server is to interact / have fun with behaving people while making an example of those who don’t

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they also said to give people the benefit of doubt

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it is not something easy to acclimate into if you are also an anxious person; I never picked this up because I was being a helicopter which made people uncomfortable

pallid otter
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I may have edit almost every message I have sent, I do not wish to be misunderstood

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it is really impossible to convey tone online and I don't even understand people's tone in person

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I don't think anyone here is stupid

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people work around different limitations

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Heck the main Restitched dev on steam is blind

pallid otter
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sorry bad ping

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I forgot discord no longer lets you click the reply bar to turn off pings

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I swear it was changed back and forth

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Just realized Carpy doesn't mod this server

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It is 5:50AM and I did not sleep but for any mods reading with similar views, the same main points apply

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no advice is wasted

royal peak
sterile hinge
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Hey, I understand you took time typing this and all, but this is not open to discussion

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There will be no memes in this server, final, no discussion. Sorry

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You can continue to discuss the reasons and provide opinions and listen to others if you like, but there's 0% chance, at all, ever, that memes will be allowed.
There's also 0% chance that this is necessary enough to be worthy of wasting mod's time discussing it, specially when the reasons have been already clearly stated (multiple times) over the years, which you quoted yourself.

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Again, that isn't a stop to the conversation, you can continue to discuss and argue for getting a better understanding. But this will not yield to any change in this server.

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The only potential change is closing #gamedev-memes and possibly also #general. Changes in that direction can be considered. Changes in direction of more potential for non-professional discussion will absolutely not be considered

pallid otter
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I respect the fact this thread is not locked

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if this is the case #gamedev-nsfw is a bit odd to me

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I could see it being more risky to keep open without verifying user's age

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many laws are being passed in the US which unfortunately overreach, so I highly recomend reading laws if in Texas or Florida

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if professional discussion is the direction, banning #gamedev-nsfw is more important than banning memes

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or maybe rename it to #gamedev-mature

sterile hinge
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We don't do prescriptive rules here, we react to real situations, not hypothetical ones. In practice, #gamedev-nsfw is potentially the most mature, well behaved and professional channel of the server.

pallid otter
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NSFW is more on the lines of porn
This is not safe in a community where godot is focused for everyone on a platform where users are allowed to join at 13
we do not know without checking ID if people are adults and local laws may put the server in jeopardy due to the fact godot is also helping kids program
If memes are historically used on this server for edgy subjects, the NSFW channel has a lot of risk

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Discord has banned Yuzu's fork's servers
they are very conservative on laws

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even if Yuzu forks did not break laws

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(Yuzu did by piracy between devs)

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I do not want this server banned as it is a very good one with a huge community

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Discord uses the term specially "NSFW" and not "NSFL" so NSFL may also still not be allowed even in #gamedev-nsfw and renaming it to "mature" discourages porn

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Things like boobs can be mentioned without being adult but being NSFW

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NSFW means "Not safe for work" so it is unprofessional

sterile hinge
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Porn is explicitly allowed in the channel (as long as it is in the context of a game people are making), that's what it's for. We don't want to discourage it. What are the risks, I don't understand?

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That Discord bans us? That's not a concern, if they do, that's fine.

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"Risks" in this case is uniquely and chiefly in regards to users and their peaceful interactions

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We don't care a single bit about Discord.

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If the server closes, people will just reorganize in other servers or communities, it doesn't matter

pallid otter
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allowed and encouraged are not the same

pallid otter
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this is an offical discord and not some side one

pallid otter
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You should make a poll to ask what users think of possible renames or removal of #non-gamedev-memes
I noticed a lot of people reacted to just the existence of the channel

image.png
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I made this a while back and it is another reason to use polls

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Although I do not agree with showing a middle finger, at minimum 355 people have strong opinions

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a middle finger is only a result of frustration for voice

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reactions are overwhelmingly negative

pallid otter
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I feel people should be given common decency to vote to remove other channels

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leaving #non-gamedev-memes locked with that message up including reactions is tacky

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Rename #gamedev-memes and open moderation feedback more

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Rename #gamedev-nsfw and open moderation feedback more. Remove locked channels

honest creek
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Why do people always go after #gamedev-nsfw in these things

pallid otter
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not all nsfw is nsfl, but all nsfl is nsfw

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not all memes are shitpost, but all shitpost are memes

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shitpost are like the memes of memes in how to take them seriously

honest creek
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Dude every month there's someone in here throwing a fit about the existance of the NSFW gamedev channel. NSFW devs do exist, they're not just something to be stashed away and shunned.

pallid otter
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places like even 4chan have been affected by the normifacation where the normal shock value is always being pushed
shitpost are still untouched

pallid otter
honest creek
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this is not a server about memes. This is a server about gamedev using the godot engine.

pallid otter
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NSFW isn't the issue, NSFL and people wanting to one up each other is why this is dubious

honest creek
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where are you getting any of this from, who's posting NSFL stuff in there

pallid otter
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naming the channel to #gamedev-nsfw to #gamedev-mature is simple

pallid otter
honest creek
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"mature" is a dumb name for nsfw that's annoyingly ambigous.

pallid otter
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NSFW is not NSFL

honest creek
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A charming tautology.

pallid otter
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mature is not ambigous as "NSFW"

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it keeps with professionalism

pallid otter
honest creek
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And I was quoting Lackadaisy.

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Dude, the server owners don't want memes. I don't think throwing a stink about nsfw just because that's allowed and you think it's some gotcha is going to do anything.

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and neither is bumping old forum threads.

pallid otter
honest creek
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NSFW is not nonprofessional by nature. Memes are.

pallid otter
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godot is not meant for basically game hentai, it is an engine for everyone

honest creek
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People working on nsfw media and games are capable of discussing and asking for help on their project, while I don't think I can see a meme outside of some executive "hello fellow coworkers" thing that could be professional. Unless yur doing brand twitter or something

honest creek
pallid otter
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didn't say to disallow as much as discourage potential for risk

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this is the logical progression to banning memes

honest creek
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Mature, in my mind, indicates grand theft auto or games with risque costumes. Not NSFW games. It's more vague for no reason.

pallid otter
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Banning memes but calling the channel "NSFW" and pointing out openly that porn is allowed is hypocrisy

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keep it on the low for users not comfortable

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this does not ban anything that isn't banned

honest creek
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Do you know what NSFW means or do you just treat it as "something your coworkers wouldn't do"

pallid otter
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Not safe for work

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NSFL is Not safe for life

honest creek
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As in content that would not be appropriate to show to a coworker in most instances, right?

pallid otter
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it includes not only employees but customers

honest creek
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No it does not

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it's not synonymous with "unprofessional," it's just a

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nvm I'm done arguing.

pallid otter
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if you show porn to a customer at a starbucks, you are going to get harassment charges

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NSFW

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mature is reference to age and how people should keep professional

honest creek
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yur just arguing the semantics of an already well established term. Most people are going to already know exactly what it means, and nitpicking "well um actually it could mean this" isn't doing anything.
Mature is meaningless and vague, while everyone knows what an nsfw channel means.

pallid otter
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there are things outside of porn in #gamedev-nsfw right?

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if it is only porn, then the name would make sense

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Blood / gore would make sense to be allowed in the channel which is not porn

honest creek
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Dude if you were actually serious, 18+ would be far better than mature. There's a reason people use NSFW over Mature in most cases anymore.

pallid otter
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same thing for fictional politics

pallid otter
honest creek
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what

pallid otter
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the channel should be for mature adults
it already says 18+

honest creek
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is Political content actually allowed/corraled to NSFW?

pallid otter
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Yes

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If you are political, even mentioning something like Skyrim politics, you can be fired

honest creek
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I don't see that-

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No I mean here.

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I do not mean in yur own definition of nsfw

pallid otter
honest creek
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Also, for the record, NSFW spaces do not have to welcome EVERYTHING that is NSFW. Any nsfw server will have rules of what can and cannot be posted.

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I see no mention of politics here.

pallid otter
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Politics involves differing viewpoints, values, and ideologies, and when people feel passionately about their beliefs, disagreements can arise.

honest creek
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Yur pulling stuff out of nowhere to prove your point.

pallid otter
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The rules involve politics as acknowledged and have an emphasis on professionalism

image.png
honest creek
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If yur referring to this part I think that's actually implying the opposite.
Keep things Respectful, not Professional.

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pallid otter
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in order to help moderation, because memes are banned, #gamedev-nsfw needs to be renamed

pallid otter
honest creek
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What a statement.

honest creek
# pallid otter "tools"

Yeah, there's plenty of people out there who'll mock others for using tools such as visual scripting, stack overflow, or even non-notepad IDEs, saying that "real professionals use x" or whatever.
That's what that's referring to.

pallid otter
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that is offtopic

honest creek
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That is what that rule means.

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I don't see anything about professionalism in that ruleset otherwise.

pallid otter
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I am referring to #gamedev-nsfw having a dubious name and how mods have banned memes to bring professionalism into the focus
NSFW implies the channel is only for porn, when it is for anything mature
it is already stated by marking the channel NSFW that it is 18+ and does not have to be restated

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memes are said to not be allowed in the foreseeable future, so the name has some unintentional hypocrisy

honest creek
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This gish galoping is giving me a headache.

pallid otter
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mods should not be harassed

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renaming will help prevent spam

honest creek
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By that definition they'd have to remove the pride flags from the server icon, as they get bugged about that pretty often as well.

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but that's an equally silly suggestion.

pallid otter
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bigotry is not the same as people asking the same questions repetitively

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LGBTQ is considered SFW globally by English speaking countries which is what this server uses as the primary language even if Juan Linietsky and Ariel Manzur are not from the US

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This is not to say US values are the ones uphold
For LGBTQ stuff
Western values ≠ USA values in all states and most people are conservative
I grew up in a centrist area and respect LGBTQ values by choice

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I would say American values are neglected for polls or sharing of memes

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The most important thing is consistency

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Making sure #gamedev-nsfw nolonger has dubious name while bring professionalism into the focus is the most important regardless of poll or meme bans

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There is a time and place for everything

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I am not to judge if memes or polls is not allowed, I only judge if consistency is not upkept because it brings controversy, the oppisite of what mods are trying to solve

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Look up the cobra effect

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India didn't lean to built rockets into space without a few mistakes

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I am not even agreeing with choices, the pygmalion effect is real, I am trying to help mitigate damage

pallid otter
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let's not derail this thread

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I just noticed it was derailed

pallid otter
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professionalism is what mods want to keep in focus

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I suggest renaming #gamedev-nsfw to gamedev-mature because it is already marked as an 18+ channel and refocueses the mods do listen to users

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I am not going to advocate to ban #gamedev-memes because I wanted memes in the first place and rather have some lenience than an outright ban

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it would be very controversial to ban anyways

pallid otter
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Godot is for everyone to enjoy even with controversial ideas

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mods are not here to police ideologies, they are here to keep things civil by choice

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banning anything can seem like helicopter parenting

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removing locked channels would also keep things out of site and out of mind
keeping them locked and shown is not good and only has people angry

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most people only see this channel once and yet there is a huge backlash causing people to talk about it

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good censorship adverts attention

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I only speak put of passion for Godot

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"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink"

sterile hinge
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What is the problem to solve?

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Your own perception of "making godot look bad" is not an actual problem that needs to be solved. It can be an interesting conversation, but held elsewhere, outside the server, because it's not productive.

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If you see an actual problem, not a made-up one, an actual, tangible one; one that can be demonstrated; not:

  • opinions
  • things you think that may happen later
  • hypothetical dangers
    then open a thread about it and explain the actual problem.
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Otherwise, please refrain, it's a waste of everyone's time

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I don't have any strong opinions about renaming #gamedev-nsfw, I just don't see what it accomplishes other than being a little less clear on what the channel is for.

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As for people demanding a meme channel, yes, people feel strongly about this, so it's a regular occurrence, but if 100% of all 15k users all demanded this every day and did nothing else, for all of eternity, there still wouldn't be a meme channel. It doesn't matter enough in a gamedev server, and anyone who feels so strongly about it they think it's worth discussing so much can just, not use this server.

sterile hinge
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I will repeat this: As much as possible, we do not preemptively create rules or change things because of imaginary hypothetical scenarios. We see actual problems, and try to solve them.

Please only talk about actual, tangible problems, that can be demonstrated.
These problems can be and only be about users of the discord, their comfort, convenience, safety, and security. We don't care about anything else (there's an asterisk *️⃣ to that, I'll get to it in the end).

Example of tangible problem:

  • "I am unable to find the proper channels easily, there are too many of them"
  • "Users are getting confused about where to post <x> type of content"
  • "A few users from <minority> reported not feeling safe"

Example of intangible problems:

  • "People will be unable to find the channels easily" (no example)
  • "Users may get confused"
  • "This will surely make users from <minority> feel unsafe"
    We may consider and think about those, but we probably can't productively act on them

Example of intangible problems we won't even consider:

  • "People feel <y> about the discord"
  • "The reputation of the engine/discord..."
  • "Many people in my circle of friends think (and I'm friends with many professionals so it matters)"
    These are issues that are not quantifiable, changes will affect them in ways that are not measurable, and they do not affect people using the discord right now. They are meaningless.

To complete, here are example of tangible problems we don't care about:

  • "<corpo> needs to protect their ip so we can't post fanbase games"
  • "traditionally <type of speech> is considered unprofessional" (as long as it doesn't actually impact users, it's good to do)
  • "we aren't educating haters"
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*️⃣ Lastly, asterisk I mentioned earlier:
There are two categories of problems we would consider even if they don't fit the "tangible problem for users" category:

  1. silent disapproval: For example, long ago, we hypothesized that the server was not welcoming to LGBTQ folks. There was no way to verify this or to test it. We made changes, we noticed we started having more users who identified as LGBTQ (or just, ... women).
    You'll notice though, despite not being able to identify the problem beforehand (and I lie a bit, some users helpfully explained the server was not welcoming), there still was a desired tangible outcome we could observe and conclusively say "yes, we're doing good" or "no, we're not doing good"

  2. moderation considerations: All changes have to be observed and considered under the angle of "can we realistically moderate this". For example, memes might be ok if there could be one mod per user, checking what they post at all times, and deleting preemptively memes that they think might trigger controversy. This assumes mods would have extensive training in different types of cultures (references can have layered meaning), and that users would be ok with mods taking a call on deleting their stuff.
    So, there are rules or changes that we take for the purpose of practical, pragmatic moderation, or changes we'd like, but can't do because of the limitations of what moderation can accomplish. I'd call that a physical limitation.

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*️⃣ Asterisk 2:
Just to be clear and exhaustive, "comfortable and safe" necessarily means taking an active stance and being unsafe for some people.
For example, if we wanted to allow both Jews and Nazis, Jews would feel (rightfully) unsafe. Not doing anything (letting anyone in) would be equivalent in this case to supporting Nazis. The actual neutral stance is to refuse Nazis.
Paradox of Tolerance, etc.

Similarly, people feeling unsafe because of their ideology will not be considered.

It's one thing to feel unsafe because actual, real people wish you harm, and vote or support people who enact real policies to make your life harder (like LBGTQ+ people might feel unsafe around conservatives)
It's another to feel unsafe because your ideology/religion/leader told you the gays will precipitate the fall of society by just, existing in the world (like conservatives might feel uncomfortable around LGBTQ+ people).

Both use the same wording of unsafety and discomfort, but they come from very different places and mean very different things.

We consider the former, we ban the latter.

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TL,DR:
Do you have a specific tangible issue with something? Please explain your own personal problem; do not assume others' thoughts or feelings.

or

Do you see a user having a specific tangible problem (with link/screenshot to the problem)?

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It's totally ok to have only one example. Numbers do not matter. One person needing something is enough.

pallid otter
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I have been asked if I am autistic

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there is no spite

pallid otter
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take everything said as literal

pallid otter
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I was born 2004

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From my ID

20240411_012703.jpg
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I was not upset as much as I felt that I wanted to prevent drama
it was hidden by default prior to role changes, but I was worried with new US laws, things may become complicated in the future

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Discord is very conservative and have taken down Yuzu fork's discords even without laws broken

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I love godot and want it for everyone

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If people moved to other servers, then it would hurt the reputation of godot

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I mean no ill intent

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sorry if I have trouble with my wording

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I appreciate how many people have talked in this thread

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I already have been banned from the habor's masters server for mentioning the use of suyu so other servers would be affected if this one is banned

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it isn't a single server issue

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godot is massive

pallid otter
pallid otter
pallid otter
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my main concern is miscommunications which I also struggle with

pallid otter
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I feel that the name #gamedev-nsfw implies encouraged NSFW which is not always professional
the server is already marked 18+ which is good, but I feel it should be named to #gamedev-mature to show it is for a variety of more adult content that is not strictly sexual

pallid otter
south rain
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I do want to note that the meme ban isn't even really about "professionalism" it's about not sharing tons of insensitive and offensive memes

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That are hard to moderate

pallid otter
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people misunderstand online

pallid otter
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This shows many people do not know if I was asked even if I stated it was "Not safe for work" and not to confuse with NSFL

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NSFL is under the catagory of NSFW, but should not be allowed if I read discord TOS correctly on shock content

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not sure if people have been banned for NSFL

pallid otter
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this can follow under gore

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games may have some very realistic depictions of gore

south rain
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If the concern is that rule breaking content also falls under the term nsfw, then what are you concerned about? Rule breaking stuff would get moderated away

pallid otter
south rain
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You even need to confirm your age when you try to view an nsfw channel

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As was mentioned, the mods don't deal with hypotheticals

pallid otter
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Becasue I do not mod this server, I do not see bans, and I trust mods know what they are doing

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I really just want to help, but if this hurts, I will type less

south rain
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If you trust what they are doing then why this thread

pallid otter
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I mod a different server and have seen similar stuff happen

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each server has unique users

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that is good

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the server I was modding has been around for 40 boost and is also a nerdy server

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I have not

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not on this server

south rain
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How I see it is:
If I don't want to see the nsfw channel I can hide it, anything else is up to the mods of the server

pallid otter
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I like the NSFW channel being allowed

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well there was a problem with people being too edgy

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it stopped after I suggested a name change on my server

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debian den

pallid otter
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they renamed their channel to "elders den" instead of "mature den" but edgy stuff stopped

pallid otter
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dang it

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I swear I tried to turn of ping

pallid otter
south rain
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At this point I'm just confused because you seemed to misinterpret what I said twice

pallid otter
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I thought she meant this server

south rain
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Well the meme ban wasn't just dished out willy nilly, the pin explains exactly why

pallid otter
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I do not think I will be the only one to confuse anything

pallid otter
pallid otter
pallid otter
south rain
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If you want a concrete example of a "meme" that would qualify for this kind of thing: in another server someone posted an image of someone saying "Don't like your period? I can make it go away for 9 months and disappear"

pallid otter
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I am talkative, but a relatively new user

south rain
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A lot of people found it to be funny but it really just makes fun of the abuse people face

pallid otter
south rain
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Yeah and a lot of people don't see it as bad

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And explaining it to them can get extremely tiring

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Hence the ban

pallid otter
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lots of bad jokes like suicide or rape jokes exist which hurt people

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I do see that

south rain
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Well the punch line of that "joke" seems to be just riffing on getting someone pregnant and leaving, which is abuse

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And it hurts people to see it normalized to the point where people laugh about it

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Dark humor makes fun out of a grim situation, it doesn't just laugh at it

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Either way this is exactly what would occur 100s of times

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"It's not that bad actually. Here's why it is bad. I don't think so" etc. etc.

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Do you see the point

pallid otter
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misogyny and misondry are very bad these days, but women are kinda expected to have kids even if they don't want to and I feel it could make women uncomftorable to make jokes about making people pregnant with the implication that the woman in the joke "wouldn't know"

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sorry if I word thing weird

south rain
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You are acting out a perfect example of why the ban was put in place

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That is exactly the problem

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Look at the game dev memes pin again

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You're just becoming more and more of an example of why I enjoy the meme ban

pallid otter
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I am looking for a message Xanax sent

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1 sec

south rain
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I'm out of this conversation

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I was not

pallid otter
south rain
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I never even said anything like that.
Thanks for misinterpreting ig

pallid otter
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I saw image perms are able to be toggled
could image perms be given to select users?

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I mentioned in my threads about polls on automod not being used enough

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please, let's be civil

south rain
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No I don't, stop with the misconstruing and misinterpreting

pallid otter
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I do not wish for this to get derailed again

south rain
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I didn't call you a good example I called the situation a good example

pallid otter
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can we find common ground?

pallid otter
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xananax already said memes are staying banned

south rain
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Believe what you will
You don't seem like a person I can talk to anyway

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Did you even read what you replied to???

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Acting out an example is not calling you the reason

pallid otter
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Rename #gamedev-nsfw and open moderation feedback more.

south rain
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You've made something up in your mind about how I feel about you based on text

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If I had a cent for every time someone did this to me I swear

pallid otter
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I don't want this channel locked I do not have anything to add other than what I have said about renaming channels

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I will let things deescalate

south rain
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Do not misconstrue all my words and then treat it as fact then

pallid otter
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I think everyone here should leave

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the channel is getting very derailed

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come back when we are not so tense

south rain
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You very much didn't and now you're telling me I meant something different than I did