#Free the GIFs!

241 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

woeful osprey
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Back when we removed GIFs, the only argument we had against them was that it took "screen space".

Today, Discord allows people who don't have screen space to disable embeds, so they can have freedom of choice not to see them-- while people who want to have freedom of choice to see them.

GIFs are an integral part of the modern day communication.

GIFs offer a way to express and convey emotion in ways that text doesn't. Body language is something that cannot be portrayed through text, but GIFs offer a convenient and easy way to express that communication.

GIFs can help break tension when there's a misunderstanding or tension in chat.

GIFs help people express who they are; people can more easily showcase personality, whereas often, text can fail. This actually helps build a sense of identity between users.

Sometimes, a single GIF can convey a response, an emotion, or a reaction in a way a whole page of text couldn't ever formulate.

For moderation purposes-- if you're doing pro-active moderation is a LOT easier to moderate a GIF at a glance than it is a sentence or a paragraph.

With the ability to disable embeds now in Discord, there's really no reason to not allow people this expressive and emotive form of communication which is pretty much a standard in modern communication.

It is time to Free the GIFs!

ionic badge
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You cannot disable embeds for gifs only. Many embeds are actually useful for work and discussion around work, which is what this server is about.
For many uses, embeds are mandatory, such as getting help about visual things, or previewing what a tutorial is about.

For those reasons, disabling embeds generally is not a valid thing to ask from users. As people who are in a game server, with visuals, keeping embeds is pretty much mandatory if you intend to help people.

Additionally, it's an all of nothing, you cannot disable them per-server. I love my gifs in my servers with friends, I don't want to disable them everywhere.
Finally, it's also a hidden setting, which most people don't know about.

It's therefore also not a reasonable expectation to ask of users.

Expressing yourself is not what this server is about. Having side conversations is a fringe, side thing, that could be removed at no real damage to the server (though a small minority of users would be sad, of which me). There's a large internet for that; in Godot, it's totally optional.

Finally, gifs have a huge potential for misunderstanding, quiproquos, or saying more or something else than you intend to. Posting a gif of Tate putting on sunglasses might mean just a shitpost to someone, but have important and nefarious meaning to someone else. For that reason, gifs are a liability, just like memes.
In a small server with friends, it's totally ok, in a server with 60k users, it really isn't.

TLDR:

  • Setting is as good as not existing
  • Setting is useless in a game server where visuals are required
  • Expressing oneself is not part of the server's core mission and requires no improvements
  • Gifs are a big liability and potential for strife

There will be no gifs or permission of large images that are not directly constructive on this server. There is no need to have a conversation about it, I'm sorry, this is a completely closed door.

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There is 0 issue making another, more relaxed server that is more about conversations, and link it from the community page though, I'd happily do that.

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I myself work in smaller servers with friends, where gifs are allowed.

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Incidentally, this is also valid for any other form of large, non-constructive embed. The thinking is similar for animations, badges, random images, news embeds, or anything that's not related to people's work, or people's request for help

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"constructive" being here intended as "directly related to your work or need for help"

woeful osprey
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Is not expression a part of all conversation?

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Godot and non-Godot alike.

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Is also having a rainbow icon all through the year a part of Godot saying you can express yourself freely here? So, we've gone 'pure business' since then, I guess? Okay.

ionic badge
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Yes of course, but in the context of a help server, that would be limited to "thanks" or being discouraged by something too hard or similar.
A gif would express those better, but it's not worth opening that door vs just writing "thanks" or using an emoji.

woeful osprey
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I just find the interruption argument weird-- since it doesn't impact any other large servers. 🤷‍♀️

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Numbers only count for active users-- not idle ones. There's no 60K of active users on any server, even here.

ionic badge
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Yea I can understand that for some people it's ok but:

  • "others do/don't do" is not really an argument; we've always done what we think is best regardless of consensus
  • if consensus is desired: there are many large servers that also forbid gifs, explicitly or implicitly
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No, but it's still a large number. The exact number is not very relevant, point is, chats move fast

woeful osprey
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Yep, I know, I was part of the bikeshedding to remove them back in the day. 😛

ionic badge
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Thing is, we had gifs and we had memes allowed, and we forbade them for a reason. This didn't come out from imaginary problems

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This rule, like most, is empirically created

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Gifs were disruptive, with people complaining about them, both for space and for their sometimes contentious meaning

woeful osprey
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So, what about compromising to allow them in offtopic?

ionic badge
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Offtopic was specifically where people complained about though

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Let's leave this open and see other opinions

tribal valley
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Personal experience only, but I have always found GIFs unnatural and strangely off-putting. They're fine in a conversation (or preferably channel) where they're expected, such as meme browsing. There's always a danger in memes though, as in all uses of GIFs; they will be misconstrued, some will be sent tastelessly or even maliciously with no real means to prove it (meaning mods will have to give benefit of the doubt while people are made uncomfortable), and they can be visually noisy or distracting. Not everyone knows about the 'reduce motion' settings, and equivalently to embed-hiding - as xan highlights - the setting applies globally.

I see it as an uncircumventable moderation difficulty for other reasons besides, chiefly the fact that they must be individually watched all the way through, with no access to video controls, and with commonly a lot of (again) noise as well as compression which could make harmful content hard to detect. Animated content can sit on very blurred lines, and intention is often impossible to determine.

ionic badge
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A 2nd point indeed that I didn't touch is difficulty in moderation (which Lilly knows well but I guess she's advocating from a user's perspective, which is fine). In 7 years of existence of this discord, there was like maybe 4 malicious gore or porn or nazi stuff hidden after a seemingly innocent meme. Still, because of the possibility, moderators have wait for each gif or movie to load, and to watch each of them just in case. Youtube videos can be sped up and you can check the thumbnails, but for gifs you just have to wait.

safe plaza
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I don’t want to have to scroll up through gifs or reaction images when I’m trying to have a conversation to help someone or answer a question

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It’s already disruptive when people have parallel text convos, if more v space was taken it’d be unmanageable

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Even more so on mobile

tribal valley
# ionic badge A 2nd point indeed that I didn't touch is difficulty in moderation (which Lilly ...

I do see Lilly's point, and it's sensible to point out. I think a compromise could be viable, but it's not something I'd want personally (as a user). If enough people want it, and it does indeed lead to freedom of expression, then perhaps it's worth doing; I, though, feel that as a form of expression it mainly lends itself to the likes of shitposting and ripping content from the internet. They may express alternate ideologies of their place of creation or earlier posting, and they may exude bad vibes if nothing else. It is likely a moot point, but I find GIF/meme channels unhealthy as they tend to encourage doomscrolling for sparse entertainment.

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Of course, it's ultimately someone's own choice whether or not they want to opt into that sort of communication and media consumption. Unlike me, many people enjoy it, and those who don't aren't forced into it. But naturally the existence of such a channel implies a responsibility to hold it to server standards, or risk lowering those standards and opening up the community to toxicity.

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And yeah, malicious stuff can be easily hidden. It doesn't help that GIFs seem to take an age to load on discord.

tribal valley
woeful osprey
woeful osprey
# ionic badge A 2nd point indeed that I didn't touch is difficulty in moderation (which Lilly ...

Well, I actually don't really understand the desire to pre-emptively moderate everything; never quite got that part-- generally, if there's a huge issue in a public channel; someone reports it, or it gets enough attention to be seen by someone. I mean, voice has no mods any more-- or, I never see any mod hanging out there any more; nobody pre-emptive moderating in there, etc. Everything is generally fine there without the fine comb, ya? Maybe making too much work for yourselves. 😛

silver tinsel
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I wonder where did you find any voice channels here 🤔

tribal valley
# woeful osprey Well, I actually don't really understand the desire to pre-emptively moderate ev...

I see not preemptively moderating things as another community issue. What people see, no matter how quickly removed, has an impact on their mental wellbeing; and ultimately their sense of what a community is. If it always takes at least one user reporting something, then waiting for review by a moderator, to get something malicious taken down, there's a real sense that the moderators are passive and only act when they have been told that someone has a problem with particular content. There's a non-negligible chance that a significant amount of content will be missed - perhaps no one felt motivated to make a report at the time it was relevant - and just remain forever in the server, testament to some people's intolerance towards others.

Voice strikes me as a bit of an edge case. It is very different from text in that you can't just look back at the history: what you get is what's happening in real time. If something abusive is said, it is unfortunate (and could indeed be impactful) but is not saved in any meaningful way. I feel that you go to a voice channel with the understanding that you are accepting additional risk, as it would be completely infeasible - as well as a little creepy - to have moderators hang out at voice. It's a bit of a freer environment, you're talking (normally) directly with real people, and in this server you will miss out on nothing of note by never using those channels.

tribal valley
ionic badge
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I have no idea if things are fine in voice or if it's festering into a toxic pool, it's a constant concern of mine and I'm considering closing it, but that's a different topic

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And yeah, of course we have to preemptively remove content or police aggressive tone, defuse tensions, and do a bunch of other things that never get reported. Otherwise that's no moderation. But that's offtopic

silver tinsel
dull lion
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actually i think theres a argument to be made for small gifs: the problem with gifs is that they are loud. but the size of the gif isnt constant: see #beginner message

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small, non intrusive gifs

tribal valley
# dull lion actually i think theres a argument to be made for small gifs: the problem with g...

It's a good point, but:

  • We still have the moderation problem of having to watch them all the way through (only slightly alleviated by a lesser loading time), and a lack of clarity about the real length of a particular GIF (i.e. whether it has looped or is just pretending to loop).
  • It would mean setting an arbitrary limit, specifically GIF resolutions. How do you determine whether or not a GIF is obnoxiously large? You will have a lot of borderline cases, and regardless it is but a proxy for GIF abuse.
woeful osprey
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If something is being abused 1 out of 10 constantly, there's a problem. 1 in 1000, it shouldn't even be a concern. Even if one slips by once in a blue moon. The server is large enough that someone will, no doubt report. If they don't-- you kinda have a userbase problem to begin with; and then I guess you're running a prison and not a server. But, I don't think this server has a userbase problem... not that I've really seen.

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The occasional bad egg, sure.

shut orbit
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I saw this today, my personal opinion on the matter is that

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we really have no reason to unban gifs

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it effectively kills off a lot of meme posting

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and you always make a video to display something

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or as far as I'm aware

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there still is a way to upload gifs

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i see them floating around every now and then

dull lion
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also, where are gifs formally banned

summer haven
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#rules
- post gifs/memes or disruptive communication

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in the "don't" category

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personally, I'm fine with no gifs
it takes away a way of reacting and I don't mind if they are used sparsely, but lets be honest, thats rarely the case - and having half of the screen taken up by gifs gets annoying quickly

silver tinsel
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(a very opinionated statement right here) also most of the gifs are either plain stupid or dont fit the conversation, so it is extremely rare to have it embedded correctly into a non-shitposting talk/discussion

shut orbit
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i don't find that opiniated

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the way people use gifs they really don't most of the time

signal wigeon
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I feel no need to allow gifs either. In my experience, a lot of the stuff in gifs people send is stuff that can be done with an emoji or short line of text anyway. Both of which use a lot less screen space.

shut orbit
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no

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there are kids in this server

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If we had gifs, not preemptively modding could expose them to these very harmful imagery

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and sure they could report it

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but the damage will already be done

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moderating a server also means to act in its users best interests

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and not pre emptively modding things is a big no

woeful osprey
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So, what works for, literally, every large game dev server can't work here?

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Okay. Common sense.

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It isn't a big no, lol.

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This server over-moderates in comparison to, literally, everywhere.

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And it drains the mods.

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But that's not the point

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Some of the mods agree GIFs should be allowed-- but they don't speak up because, as they say, "It's useless to try to suggest otherwise"

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🤷‍♀️

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The bikeshed will be forever real. But anyway... nobody from general is really talking here except for a few... so I'll leave it alone. And continue with FreeTheGIFs for the memes. 🤣

shut orbit
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You get warned for talking about a different engine

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And schockingly, 13-18 year olds don't exactly have your level of common sense

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Seeing as their brain isn't fully developed

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But if your fine with minors reporting gifs with gore and porn and therefore seeing it, that's not my problem

ionic badge
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well, this is getting tense and offtopic

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There's no need to discuss moderation policies in this thread

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We will proactively moderate the server, so it isn't necessary to discuss it

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If you guys want to argue the philosophy, you can go ahead and do that somewhere else, in DM or #general

flint pebble
hot flame
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If the concern is that there are minors in this server, we might as well also preemptively moderate all links and messages too, as they may also contain bad content.

My point is, that no level of moderation can completely sterilize online communication, and I think of it as a fool's errand to attempt to do so. Abhorrent content like porn/gore is easily enough moderated, discord has even made significant progress in image/embed automod to prevent them. Plenty of other large servers (10k+ users) don't have an issue with bad content, embeds, and gifs, and I think many issues of "bad content" may arise from political disagreements, or misinterpretations (intentional or unintentional) of content. I see no problem with giving users the benefit of the doubt when it comes to disagreements or misinterpretations, as benefit of the doubt is another form of tolerance.

It seems like the main point of contention here is that many people may get personally offended from gifs, whether it is intentional or not. Maybe it's ok that people are offended by things they disagree with from time to time, so long as noone dwells on disagreements for too long, no harm will come from it. If gifs are used for harassment, users can block the people that antagonize them. My opinion is that there isn't enough moderation to curate all content and messages in the server as to not be controversial nor offensive, and it isn't worth censoring all users desire for free expression for the harmful actions of a very small minority. We give up our freedom to post gifs in exchange for security from abhorrent content, but is it really worth it? I don't think much, if any security is gained by the removal of gifs, but all of us (well-mannered, reasonable people) lost our freedom of expression through gifs.

Bring the GIFs back!

ionic badge
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"We can't do 100% so better not do anything" is a non argument, not receivable, and not useful

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Anytime you see yourself using:

  • slippery slope ("if we eat one candy, we'll surely end up eating all the candies in the world")
  • incompleteness is useless ("we cannot remove all bacteria from our skin, so we might as well roll over and die")
  • if not fire and forget, it's useless ("we cannot clean our teeth forever and need to do it again every day, might as well just let our mouth rot")

Reconsider. These aren't arguments

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They're thought killers and useless, in all circumstances, and always.

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Besides, none of the things you said is actually the reason why gifs aren't allowed. The reasons were clearly stated, but you chose to disregard the actual reasons, and invent reasons from your own imagination, just to oppose them.
So there's no answering these, since they are not reasons.

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If you want to argue something, at least have the diligence to answer the proposed thesis, not one you want to fabricate.

hot flame
# ionic badge "We can't do 100% so better not do anything" is a non argument, not receivable, ...

My argument is not that there should be no moderation, that's your strawman interpretation of my argument. My argument is that because no amount of moderation will be perfect, you can't expect all communications to be perfect. There will be bad content in all forms of communication. Again, I'm not saying to have 0 moderation, I'm saying that moderation is already happening, which is why GIFs are a non-issue, as bad actors and bad content will be moderated, especially with discord auto-mod blocking the most egregious content.

Some people are making it seem like gifs are impossible to moderate, or that they would take excessive moderation capacity to moderate, which isn't the case in many other similarly large communities.

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And beyond that, as you mention self-expression is not the focus of this server, and are described as

Having side conversations is a fringe, side thing, that could be removed at no real damage to the server
What would be the damage of allowing gifs in off-topic channels?

ionic badge
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The damage has already been explained, and this question already answered

hot flame
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Community discussions don't seem very productive if no matter the argument, suggestions and discussions aren't going to be taken into account.

tribal valley
# hot flame My argument **is not** that there should be no moderation, that's your strawman ...

I agree, your argument does strongly come across as "we might as well relax because we can't solve all the issues", which is not productive. To give an (admittedly extreme) example, we can't solve racism, which doesn't mean we shouldn't put in effort to prevent and reduce it. I am aware this is not the point you are making, but it is unclear exactly what you are trying to say, and I think it's unfair to call xan out for interpreting it that way.

You reiterate that "no amount of moderation will be perfect". So what exactly are you saying? That we should take an arguably arbitrary line, and draw it in another, more lenient arbitrary place? If your argument is only that we are unlikely to encounter bad content in GIFs without providing a compelling reason for them, the discussion will not satisfactorily progress.

hot flame
# tribal valley I agree, your argument does strongly come across as "we might as well relax beca...

As an example, despite moderation, people will still be capable of saying racist things in text chat, or voice chat, yes, that's bad, and isn't at all related to godot, so do we allow moderators to moderate the communications, and allow people to speak more or less freely, or do we restrict their ability to speak so we can avoid a potential for racism or bad content entirely?

As it relates to gifs specifically, yes, some users will post bad content, but how many gifs will actually be bad? Will it be 5%? 10%? 1%? Is it really worth banning all gifs because a select few people misuse them? Moderators can moderate bad gifs the same way they moderate bad messages, so it doesn't make sense to arbitrarily ban gifs for a potential they are misused.

As Xan tried to push his argument towards it being an issue of screen space/disruption, we can delegate gif-sending to offtopic channels that as he said, is inconsequential. The casual chatting experience isn't a focus or any sort of main course in this server, so there is no guarantee it needs to be a good viewing experience (it might be congested, it might go too fast, there might be too many gifs in the way)

side conversations is a fringe, side thing, that could be removed at no real damage to the server

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I think there is a rather easy compromise to be made here, either a dedicated text channel which allows gifs, or allowing gifs in the off-topic channels, which don't matter anyways.

ionic badge
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Community discussions are productive if they are productive. Repeating things already discussed and given a conclusion to is not.

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This has all already been answered, so I do not feel required to answer it again; my time is limited and I have work

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If you have new arguments or a position not discussed before, I'll happily listen to it (this is genuine, not a passive aggressive statement)

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Also, to be clear, this is a very futile thing we're bikeshedding. It's unimportant, so the percentage you describe is meaningless. If it was 0,00000000001%, it's too much for something useless.
If you want to make an argument, I would recommend the angle of "why yes" rather the "why not yes"

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There is no level of potential for disruption that makes this worth it in absolute. Only if balanced against something useful

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So, I recommend arguing for why it's useful

hot flame
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I guess you could ask, what is more worth your time? Responding to the same worn question and arguments, or allowing gifs in a very limited scope? I don't think anyone really enjoys the process of trying to convince that we need gifs, because gifs aren't a necessity, but people like gifs, and want to use them as another form of expression.

tribal valley
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I will just say again that you still haven't given a compelling reason for us to allow GIFs. Freedom of expression, sure, but we already have:

  • free text
  • images, which is the result of screenshots or sharing something bite sized
  • actual videos, which is the result of screenrecords etc as opposed to GIFs; and are not disruptive or vague in the same way
  • emojis+reactions
    Whereas GIFs are almost always things swiped from the internet that have no real meaning other than "haha funny" or "haha shocking", which I do not feel is productive to a server focused on game development and a community welcoming to all.
ionic badge
hot flame
hot flame
ionic badge
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That isn't easy at all, no

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We're not paid moderators, we're a small team, and we're off most of the time

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Any requirement for moderation needs to be kept at a strict low minimum

hot flame
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I think it's less time consuming to copy/paste a premade script, rather than having a weekly argument chain to justify the ban

ionic badge
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There's no argument chain, the ban is implemented through the server's rules

tribal valley
# hot flame How are images and videos not disruptive in the same way as gifs?

All the information can an image can be gleaned from one look. They have little means for disruption other than potentially being visually complex, so are a write-off.

Videos I admit are closer to GIFs, but they never autoplay (you must click specifically) and you can see the exact length so know what to expect. You can control the playback of a video, you cannot with a GIF, so for example you could pause on a particular frame or go back to see something you missed. With GIFs, you are just stuck in an endless loop which could even be overwhelming to people with particular conditions (I'm not making this up).

ionic badge
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Videos and disruptive images are similarly disruptive tho

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It's just that we cannot as easily blanket ban them

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If we had a bot that can detect images that are disruptive, we'd also automatically remove them

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The rule is the same, but the automated aspect is less, is all

tribal valley
ionic badge
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In the entire server,
any image or video that isn't related to requesting help, providing help, or sharing your work
is technically forbidden

hot flame
# tribal valley All the information can an image can be gleaned from one look. They have little ...

I don't think that is a particularly strong argument

you are just stuck in an endless loop which could even be overwhelming to people with particular conditions
If someone has a sensory condition, I doubt gifs are the thing that push them over the line, and if gifs do push them over the line, perhaps they need to modify their content settings on discord, or find another way to avoid excessively sensory content, another thing that I thing "gif-segregation" into off-topic channels would avoid entirely

tribal valley
hot flame
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I know many people use screen record applications that automatically convert their snippets to gifs for ease of sending, particularly though discord, and while they can most likely adjust their settings to have their recordings in mp4, it seems a bit arbitrary.

hot flame
tribal valley
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True. And also, while I have had experience of these sensory issues (not just talking on behalf of people), it is not often introduced by moving content on a screen.

I accidentally introduced a personal gripe on mine, can we move back to the point in hand please?

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That is, why would reintroducing GIFs particularly benefit the server?

hot flame
ionic badge
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I'll repeat that these arguments don't matter. I'll try an analogy:
You: "but if we put the scorpion box in the middle of the room, no scorpion can come out!"
Me: "but even if the chance is low, why would we get the scorpion box?"
You: "the box is metal, do you even realize how hard it is for a scorpion to get out?"
Me: " yes, but why???"
You: "so we stop discussing it!"

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If you can't make a compelling argument for why the scorpion box is necessary, the rest is meaningless

hot flame
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Beyond that, it brings a little more consistency to the media rules, the existing rules can still apply, but just with gifs allowed even in dedicated channels.

tribal valley
# hot flame For a start, it would end the constant suggestions/arguments/discussions to unba...

I have not personally seen many requests. Do you often see people expressing this desire, and is it a varied set of people as opposed to a few vocal ones who feel slighted? I would also argue that "meme-sending habits" should not be central to a server of this kind when:

  • people have plenty of other, better outlets
  • the ability to send memes is still there
  • and it potentially impairs the mods' ability to effectively moderate
ionic badge
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So I would again recommend to focus there

tribal valley
ionic badge
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Yea, almost everyone is ok with no gifs, there has been like 5 requests over the years, that's 0.001% of users

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In contrast, many more people have expressed being in agreement with the rule

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If those things mattered, but we're not a democracy so they don't. But if they did

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Also, no, it's less consistency in the rules.

Easy rule: "no gifs"
Complex rule: "no gifs except here and there, and in those circumstances"

hot flame
ionic badge
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The less simple rules are, the more you have to educate, repeat, stop people, etc

hot flame
ionic badge
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Every small exception to a rule is an exponential amount of additional work

ionic badge
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How is it complex? You can only post things you're working on in Godot

hot flame
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In the entire server,
any image or video that isn't related to requesting help, providing help, or sharing your work
is technically forbidden

ionic badge
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Everything else is forbidden

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It's not just gifs, it's anything that isn't your work

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It's a pretty simple rule. Is it Godot?

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No? It's forbidden

hot flame
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That seems like a tenuous rule

ionic badge
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Can you formulate a more simple one?

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Except "no images at all"

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Which, by the way, we're considering

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Simply forbid all attachments server-wide

hot flame
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Why?

ionic badge
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For all the stated reasons above

hot flame
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I could agree

ionic badge
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Disruptive, potential for strife, etc

hot flame
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at least it's consistent

ionic badge
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Consistency isn't an argument though

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We don't live for elegance

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Pragmatism prevails

tribal valley
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I hope you can get back to whatever you need to do soon xan, everything has been explained and it's not worth it

ionic badge
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This isn't a video game, usage and necessity is what matters, not some nebulous idea of consistency

tribal valley
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I am going now, but I will check back to see if a compelling argument was made

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Sorry if I complicated it further 💜

hot flame
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Think of all the bandwidth savings

ionic badge
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Nah it's fine, I don't think anyone is under tension here no worries

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just discussing

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I don't want to save bandwidth for Discord.... which leads me to:

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just open a community, put it on the Godot site

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Do whatever you want with that and those rules

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The internet is free real estate

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There's no reason to implement those rules here. You can open a discord server, invite peeps, make the kind of community you like, and if there are more than, like, 10 peeps, you can get it officially listed

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"Godot Lounge", or whatever you feel like. For socializing, memes and occasional help

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Or whatever main tenets you want

tribal valley
woeful osprey
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A big part of the issue is people don't participate in the discussion. I've asked a couple mods, they say they don't care about GIFs-- but they said there's no point in discussing it because it won't change anything.

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It's the same here... nobody really knows this convo is going on anyway.

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Only the few who pay attention.

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🤷‍♀️

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Hell, even in the off-topic channel... there's maybe a couple dozen people who even participate in chat there. 😅

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Can probably scroll back days and count 'em all on fingers and toes.

ionic badge
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I said from the start, the answer is no. This isn't worth a discussion; it's not like I mislead anyone, I think

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Some things are worth discussing; some not. This one is not. But if people want to vent about it here, they can. Maybe a valid argument will drop

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It's just fun to bikeshed, is all

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My first answer was, and I quote myself:

There will be no gifs or permission of large images that are not directly constructive on this server. There is no need to have a conversation about it, I'm sorry, this is a completely closed door.

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Anything after that is just idle discussion

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I prefer if people are convinced rather than frustrated, that's why I answer; but I don't want to give a false hope, this is not a matter of discussion. Want gifs, open another server

dull lion
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what about godot gifs

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thats the reason gifs arent deleted on send right

ionic badge
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Anything that is related to someone's work (showing it, requesting help, providing help) is allowed, including gifs

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Anything that isn't related to someone's work (reactions, news, selfies, "fun stuff I found online", memes) is forbidden

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The automod rule currently only targets giffy and tenor though, the rest has to be handled manually

woeful osprey
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It's just whatever argument is gonna be put forward and thats that.

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You might wanna have that as a wider bikeshed.

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Inside your team. 😛

ionic badge
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I'll bring it up, thank you

woeful osprey
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Thanks for the chat, and I'll try to be more avenue apropro. ❤️ 😅

shut orbit
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If this includes images and videos

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which i might have misunderstood

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If i understand you correctly, you'd have to remove the art Channel or just change it to be code and music

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showcase would be removed

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people posting things in general they don't post in other places because not made in Godot - want to post In a less professional place

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i think it could definitely work for the channels that don't need photos, but a lot of the channels need photos to function well

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all the help channels would be a lot harder to use because you couldn't post videos to show a bug

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although an idea would be to make a couple of showcase channels and just relegate images to there, and have a dedicated image thing for the help channels?

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again I could just be completely misunderstanding you, so sorry if thats the case

flint pebble
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im voting no gifs

woeful osprey
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I find it weird that peopel voting no usually don't participate in the off topic channels where I propose they be allowed. 😛

ionic badge
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Please only participate if you have something to add.
Try to read what was said before to not repeat points. If you don't, it's ok, but you may get a curt "already answered".
Voting is unnecessary though, please don't do it. "Me too" can be handled by reacting to the thread with some emoji.

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(Just to be clear: Votes are almost entirely discounted anyway. Votes are almost always not relevant to any issue. But it's human to feel a need to express your agreement or disagreement; the emojis are there for that)

shut orbit
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what

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the point of not having gifs is to help weed out inappropiate content and to prevent conversations being interrupted

bleak crow
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I usually block people who share too many gifs.

woeful osprey
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Meanwhile, I see GIFs adding to conversations; not subtracting. They add element of presentation that text alone cannot.

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Text is too mutable.

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Too dull to convey many things.

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Especially for ND people.

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I can't read emotion in text, but I can read intent when its in a GIF.

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I also come off much more hostile in text, and far less if I use a GIF as a response.

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People just gloss over the whole visual communication aspect that GIFs allow.

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GIFs definitely help resolve and display tone of conversation for people like me. But ye... to some other people, they're just an annoyance.

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But it is a world of normies, I suppose.

fallow wraith
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What about using emotes instead? gdpika

tribal valley
# woeful osprey I also come off much more hostile in text, and far less if I use a GIF as a resp...

Huh... I know what you mean. I don't think you come off as hostile, but I find it hard to judge emotion in text and often worry about the tone I conveyed afterwards. I guess I deal with it using text emotes and emojis sometimes? It's not perfect though.

I will say though again, although it's sweet when people use GIFs that way, it takes up a lot of space still - which is fine, but in a focused space like this server a little more intrusive for just a conveyor of tone. I see your argument for off topic channels now however.

woeful osprey
tribal valley
bleak crow
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The occasional gif is fine, but in a server this big, it's never the occasional gif. You get people who speak only in gifs

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And that just increases with the pool of people available

woeful osprey
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Though... counter point to that, this place has way more children and less responsible users maybe. 🤣 I'm arguing against myself now.

bleak crow
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I mean, I'm in a lot of bigger servers and it is an issue there

woeful osprey
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^ not a knock, UE5 discord is usually more adults than young ones.

woeful osprey
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Works pretty well.

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Like in the Slackers C++ channel... I had to travel about 30 or 40 desktop pages before I saw a single GIF. 😛

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Cuz... people are responsible!

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But in the lounge.....