#Fixing the Market

1218 messages · Page 2 of 2 (latest)

soft haven
tranquil summit
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Being dumb isn’t ragebait

soft haven
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thats coping

tranquil summit
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💯

analog turret
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i was serious

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lmao

cursive river
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Y'all are NOOBS

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(including me)

soft haven
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U just type shit

analog turret
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Ah ofc rodevs user

cursive river
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lol

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anywyS

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anyways

soft haven
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racist dude

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u got world of warships tag

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who are you to speak

analog turret
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Yeah atleast my marketplace isn’t a free for all

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HD better either way

cursive river
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noobs

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Stop arguing noobs

analog turret
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15 cents an hour pay in rodevs lmao

cursive river
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im noob too

analog turret
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50 a month

cursive river
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noobs

analog turret
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Literal slavery

cursive river
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noobers

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noobies

analog turret
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Blocked

blazing stirrup
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can we add a subway surfers video, captions and make it 60 seconds with an AI commentating

leaden tartan
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I'm happy because i have my skill role, people that don't have a skill role are unhappy and want the standards to be lowered so they can get one

tranquil summit
soft haven
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If I dont respond after 48 hours, Ping me in either RSC, Hidden Devs or Ro devs.

analog turret
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no

analog turret
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1k msgs is

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wild

soft haven
white stag
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38 reactions and over a thousand messages? Regardless of any logical fallacies, poor reasoning, or simple ignorance on the inner workings of HD, this clearly proves how discussion and innovations can and should ramp up for the above issues

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I haven’t watched the video—and thus won’t make any opinions on the actual content—but there’s a clear need for dialogue

soft haven
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not this dude bro

analog turret
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38 reactions and over a thousand messages? Regardless of any logical fallacies, poor reasoning, or simple ignorance on the inner workings of HD, this clearly proves how discussion and innovations can and should ramp up for the above issues

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I haven’t watched the video—and thus won’t make any opinions on the actual content—but there’s a clear need for dialogue

white stag
soft haven
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like lowkey I gotta get out of this thread cus that guy is such a loser

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^ how yall be arguing

white stag
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So true

soft haven
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like I for real dont want to be in the same chat logs as u

vague orchid
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38 reactions and over a thousand messages? Regardless of any logical fallacies, poor reasoning, or simple ignorance on the inner workings of HD, this clearly proves how discussion and innovations can and should ramp up for the above issues

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I haven’t watched the video—and thus won’t make any opinions on the actual content—but there’s a clear need for dialogue

tranquil summit
soft haven
brazen yarrow
white stag
tranquil summit
white stag
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What

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Okay then

cursive river
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Y'all are huge NOOBS

jagged umbra
cursive river
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frfr so tuff

cobalt nexus
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havent had the time to watch they video just yet but will soon

jagged umbra
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Yo

vague orchid
vague orchid
cobalt nexus
cobalt nexus
white stag
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Staff and admin are reviewing these channels more so all I hope for is continuing that momentum and organizing any outcomes with it all

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I’m not trying to downplay what’s already been done lol

analog turret
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Staff and admin are reviewing these channels more so all I hope for is continuing that momentum and organizing any outcomes with it all

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I’m not trying to downplay what’s already been done lol

white stag
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Thanks

analog turret
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Anytime brother

cursive river
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Hey solo

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I'm in that video too, please check the 6:25 timestamp of that video!

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@cobalt nexus

vague orchid
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@wraith ginkgo bro youre in this video too 😭

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But to get back on a serious note, I don't know why you're expecting us to let anyone in the marketplace without a skill role. As ARs our job is not to teach or babysit people into getting roles, all we do is check whether someone is eligible or not or give them rudimentary or summarized denial reasons at best. Anything else we do is out of courtesy as we are not a development school where teachers are gonna help you learn and you take exams, that is simply not the scope of our job.

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Also if there guidelines or staff messed up which you have witnessed I don't know why this hasn't been reported. (I am assuming you havent because if you have I trust that picture or solo would have taken appropriate action already, hence there being no need for this dialogue.)

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Also your whole argument about builders not being allowed to make their map completely on blender is baseless. There is a reason there is a bifurcation between modelers and builders. When we check for skill roles we don't solely look at who can make the best eye candy, we also check for practicality, skill variation and optimization. And Most people do not want 3D modeled maps as they either have no desire for it or cannot integrate it in their game. hence we come back at the point where your skills also must whole a certain degree of usefulness and practicality. Thus, we have a 50% minimum requirement for Roblox studio tools. Making everything in blender is not viable for games in general.

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Coming to this part, I do not know whether you applied with this piece or not but since you're raising it in comparison with your skill and applications it'll be deceptive or contradictory to assume otherwise, and to get at why this wouldn't or wasn't be accepted (if you applied) is because its completely in blender. You are applying for a Roblox building position so you need to have building skills on Roblox with the occasional assistance and implementation of decorations or structures from blender. Plus this is obviously incomplete.

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Coming to the part where you said "Free models should be allowed such as trees" and also "Most builders don't know how to make foliage." This part just doesn't make a whole lot of sense, "Builder does not how to decorate the map." is like saying a baker does not know how to decorate and put cream on a pastry. Making props such as trees, boxes, bushes, grass and etc are still the job of a builder because they come under map development. Simple trees and bushes are easily doable on Roblox studio alone however for intricate maps blender can be used and that's why we have a 50% tolerance for blender in the first place.

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Further to get more at the point of free models, the reason we don't allow them is not just because they are not made by the builder but also because of the reason people can and WILL use free models to abuse and patch up their work to make it look good. We just don't think allowing free models has as many benefits (if any) than to not allow them.

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You come to the point of "market of low pay and low quality" and frankly that's not AR's issue. I will not be commenting on this as it's been an year since I have been in MP but to get more on general with this, AR's only job is to regulate the people who enter the marketplace not those who come in the marketplace to hire.

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You say that "if you do everything it will take endless amounts of time" which is just untrue. If a person decides to build a humongous and detailed map then that's their choice. All we request for is a small piece with considerable lighting, optimization, detail and etc. It's okay if a small map is made which can exhibit your skills.

cursive river
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Add skill-role difficulties.

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And increase the requirements.

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Have you checked the part in which I'm in it?

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I'm in the video too.

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@vague orchid

vague orchid
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Yes. I am aware.

vague orchid
# vague orchid You say that "if you do everything it will take endless amounts of time" which i...

As for the next part of the video about payments, I again don't have much to talk about it since it's been a hotwhile since I was in MP but when posts are processed, the evaluating marketplace member decides whether the price is fit or not before accepting the post. So if you feel low prices are issue its best to confer with deepforce. I believe a factor to this might be that those who evaluate hire posts don't have experience in that field themselves so they don't have the essence of the work and effort it might go into accomplishing the task at hand.

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Coming to the payment part, I do agree that there can be distinction between payment methods similar to rodevs. But coming to the payment minimums, they are again just the BARE MINIMUM you need to pay to even get on the marketplace. Imagine you want just a single tree made, you will obviously not shed over 100 dollars for it. Minimum pay does not mean you can ask for anything and put the minimum pay and it will be accepted. The skill threshold for payment is still enforced and enacted, but again if you feel that's not upheld correctly (which I do believe too with a certain degree), its best again to talk with deepforce.

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As for the point with "people with more skills should be paid more", I agree with that, however, it does not mean people should be compelled to pay more just because they have been approached by someone who is "skilled". If someone has a tight budget, they simply only get DMs from devs of that level. The forcing your work onto others part makes no sense. Hourly rates are also a bit too personal for others as many people take different time frames to cover a certain project, so unless the process can be intesively rationalized and generalized, it's best to not have hourly pays

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This is all I have to say for now, I only speak mostly for ARs and represent my own opinions on this matter. I started the video midway and haven't watched the first half due to time constraints. But I believe I have no business in what people have to say anyways since I believe that was most of the first half.

cursive river
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Lemme say something

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We should have 3 tiers of Skill-roles, Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced.

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However, only people who have the Intermediate/Advanced role can make a hirable post.

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And for the advanced skill-role, the requirements should be based on work not experience and it should be really difficult to get it so studios who need top tier work can easily know who to hire.

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And for the beginner skill-role, keep it a bit easy to get. it shouldn't be too easy to get, however easy.

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And about the rejections in applications, i think there should be a feedback section too like on what to improve and valuable/constructive feedback.

vague orchid
short drift
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yes

neat crown
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never happened

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  1. role limit
  2. adding new roles literally kills the server
  3. likely wouldnt be consistent
analog turret
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I love drama ima read once home

silk dragon
analog turret
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i think we can all agree hiring posts have shit pay

hollow parrot
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Template have to bear all these essays

jade ice
neat crown
jade ice
neat crown
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tbh it could've just been to do with how unstable discord was at the time

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might not be a problem anymore

jade ice
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when was the last time this happened then

neat crown
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tbh not sure, i haven't been that active in HD for a while, but when i was staff i remember adding new roles was always a no-go because of it crashing the server

vague orchid
cerulean remnant
vague orchid
leaden tartan
vague orchid
midnight willow
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the server was cooked for a few hours

leaden tartan
brazen yarrow
brazen yarrow
brazen yarrow
brazen yarrow
brazen yarrow
white stag
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@vague orchid Please write new Federalist Papers from now on

brazen yarrow
gray matrix
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Greetings Templates,

Thanks for making your suggestion. I have completely watched the video published by you.

  1. The claim made by your dear friend, @fading plover here is false, as they have applied for 'Luau Scripter' skill role for a total of 6 times and not 10 times as can be seen here.
  • Their 1st application was declined due to no comments, 2nd application was declined due to very brief comments, 3rd application was declined due to usage of AI to write comments (with an Application Mute of 1 Month), rest 4th, 4th, and 6th times, their Luau code example did not make use of Roblox API. Although I am not a Luau Programmer, knowing appropriate usage of APIs and demonstrating the same through their code is a must for any "experienced programmer" despite the language.
  • As far as AI is concerned, it is strictly prohibited in the Application Rules. Using AI in one's code example for comments does not justify experience, rather it shows ignorance of rules and inexperience (also does not prove authenticity). A Luau Scripter skill role application merely requires 'one' code example with manually-written comments showing your understanding of your own code (helping prevent plagiarism and other violations to a large extent).
  • I have no clue who this RobloxJrTrainer person is, so can't and won't comment on them.
  1. Free models are never permitted, and will never be permitted as part of 'Builder' skill role applications in HiddenDevs. Usage of free models of course puts a question on the applicant's ability as a Builder. but moreover if permitted - this will become an excuse for applicants to use in their application and get excused for the same. Anything and everything present in a 'build map' as part of the Builder application must be original. Mech's messages above such prove the points quite well: #1418932668749447240 message.
  • It hardly takes time to create a very basic tree with transparent parts/ blocks rotated at 15/30 degree with respect to each other (having decal on both sides of each part/ block). If not, there are simple 1-minute tutorials to create a basic tree using Blender/ Roblox Studio, same goes for any other kind of vegetation/ bushes/ etc. Free models are strictly permitted for Terrain Artist skill role as they are solely required to focus on terrain and not anything else. However in case if a Builder, it directly puts a question on their skill if they have to rely on free models.
  1. Usage of 3D Models in Build Map Example for Builder skill role is permitted in moderation (up to 50% of the map). Beyond this, the distinction between 'Builder' and '3D Modeler' skill roles is completely pointless. The suggestion made by you, and supported by some people was considered and 'partially accepted' to allow 3D Models up to 50% in a build map, rest must be created solely within Roblox Studio, else only 'modelling' skill is demonstrated and not 'building'...
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  1. The sophistication standards across all the skill roles have been slightly lowered already. Those unable to acquire a skill role simply need to improve and get to a decent (intermediate) level of proficiency. For any developer who cannot demonstrate intermediate proficiency through their work (across any skill role) should strive to improve. Unfortunately, the marketplace will be flooded and chaotic if beginners are also allowed to post in the channel; not to mention the significant quality drop in the work posted across the marketplace. The "skill" word is also pointless otherwise if the concerned applicant cannot create bare minimum sophisticated (decent) work. The sophistication criteria in Application Rules have been devised after careful thought and consideration to better guide/ help applicant understands the key aspects; and Application Readers through their review (evaluation) point out the aspects that need to be improved/ taken care of; rest is for the applicant to self-reflect. Self-reflection and having a learning mindset to improvise and improve are two important abilities for any developer to have. The Application Rules (not Guidelines) are reasonable, anyone disagreeing with the overall application rules, simply doesn't want to self-reflect and improve. There may be some aspects which can be improved, and we're open to suggestions but overall reasonability strongly persists.
  • Moreover, vouching idea makes no sense at all; may be used for ratings in marketplace, but definitely not meant to give out "skill" roles.
  • Out of 12,000+ applications I have done, only 1 obby has been sophisticated; so there isn't much point to allow an obby anyway.

ApplicationReader Aero, Application Readers Leader @ HD

brazen yarrow
brazen yarrow
brazen yarrow
brazen yarrow
brazen yarrow
brazen yarrow
brazen yarrow
# gray matrix ### Greetings Templates, Thanks for making your suggestion. I have completely wa...

I trust you with the first 2 points and we've discussed it a lot. (For point 3) I think we should also think how better builders work and how, yes, they do work both in studio and in blender but they do most of the shaping and sophisticated modeled details in blender and then they texture, do lighting, add more details, optimize, and more. So you should allow blender work as it meets your criteria.

brazen yarrow
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I really would love to see cooperation from both MP and AR on the problem

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The whole reason why AR are brought up to the suggestion is because the marketplace has standards which makes application guidelines feel too much. If someone told me with a skill role I'd be landing decent jobs I'd be okay with high standard but having to go through applications of intermediate to high skill just to see offers that are worse than minimum wage in 3rd world countries is crazy.

hollow parrot
leaden tartan
vague orchid
brazen yarrow
vague orchid
vague orchid
# brazen yarrow if my build consists of rectangles then yes, other than that it's stupid to go u...

There is no scope for environment or asset maker in this argument. What you said was "They only allow 50% of map on blender" which I rightfully proved necessary. It's needed and won't be changed (apart from being made lower if it becomes an issue). 80% of people expect a map on roblox made out of real parts or have their scopes on a build style which would be meaningless to make on blender. This is a roblox server for roblox maps. Blender maps don't work the same as roblox maps and frankly I don't think any good or proper map can be made by anything above 50% of blender usage. I think @tranquil summit and @gray matrix can reinforce these claims.

brazen yarrow
# vague orchid "It's always either guidelines are messed up, the staff members, or both." Unle...

Yes, I say this because many people had problems with appealing moderations for example, I've seen people reaching out to me to fix there moderation and they do turn out true that they did nothing wrong which is what I get after contacted differnt mods/seniors. Same thing with other departments. The HD staff guideline documents are not a preserved holy scripture with no error nor are staff members angels who don't do mistakes

vague orchid
brazen yarrow
brazen yarrow
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Lighting and texturing, optimization, and details play one of the hugest roles in building

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if someone comes up to me and tells me he is not good with such stuff then he is no builder

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and I've seen builders who do got shapes and models and nothing else

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which these people shouldn't get accepted because they won't achieve the correct 3d environment for the game

vague orchid
# brazen yarrow So a builder can't have the choice of having everything about map layout in one ...

Okay then that is completely their choice if they are doing it, if their clients allow then sure. But are you forgetting ARs are not clients? We need to see what you can do and how much of it you can do, and also as stated VARIATION. We don't care about what someone prefers or wants to do. This is a Roblox server and we only give importance to what can be used on Roblox, and blender builds are not a popular form of them. And to be very honest I don't think anyone can be called skilled as a builder if they can't make anything decent on studios exclusively.

brazen yarrow
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Building with blender is not a must but it is fine for the most part

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for stuff that are simple, making them in blender would be weird tbh

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but if someone is doing stuff that has a lot of modelling then having stuff in blender first is the right choice

vague orchid
brazen yarrow
jagged umbra
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Yo

vague orchid
brazen yarrow
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if the MP department is not going to change then AR should, which is awful because we will have an even worse market

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but MP should be the main leader of change

brazen yarrow
vague orchid
brazen yarrow
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I mentioned AR to be involved if it would help

vague orchid
vague orchid
brazen yarrow
vague orchid
brazen yarrow
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and yes, the Marketplace is mesed up

tranquil summit
tranquil summit
brazen yarrow
tranquil summit
brazen yarrow
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Either talk about points or stop talking to people that do things better than you and call them low skilled

tranquil summit
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I didn’t say anything about myself

brazen yarrow
tranquil summit
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You duplicate free model car assets lol

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What even is your claim

brazen yarrow
tranquil summit
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Which you applied with despite our rules being public and accessible

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And instead of removing them you decided to make this thread and take no accountability

brazen yarrow
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Your arguments are based off being toxic to people that are clearly better

tranquil summit
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How

brazen yarrow
tranquil summit
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You claimed you were wrongfully declined

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Which is the same thing

brazen yarrow
# tranquil summit How

I bet you dont have half of the skills that shiawase have nor you have the modeling or building skills I have

brazen yarrow
tranquil summit
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If you’re gonna argue at least stay on topic

tranquil summit
brazen yarrow
tranquil summit
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People better than you have been declined

tranquil summit
brazen yarrow
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Ive gone through an actual useful convo with Mech and I dont have the power to have a non useful argument with no actual goal

tranquil summit
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What are you talking about

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“I don’t have the power to have a non useful argument” huh

vague orchid
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I am locking this post because I feel like all that needed to be said was said. If a need for further conversation is felt, this will be reopened promptly.

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The AR DL has responded and the admins have taken note, all points by the OP have been raised as needed.