nerf one hander JABS

[true aurora]

What’s wrong with the shield being noob friendly

They should be able to learn that at their own pace

I’m not that familiar with the Heavy Mace

[icy python]

"Shields [...] are very noob-friendly for allowing people to delay their death holding block as long as possible."
Yeah that's kind of their goal.
How often do you play TO instead of duels?

[hybrid citrus]

this is not a jab issue. it is a riposte issue

if you do a quick riposte or a delayed riposte their jab will not land. that is why you consider it a gamble, because the risks involved with just randomly jabbing someone while they riposte are high

to argue for a nerf on something is to say it is too powerful, which it simply isn't. the real powerful stuff in chivalry 2 are heavy drags with massive weapons like greatsword, messer, heavy mace, etc.

I mean if you'd like we can hop in game real quick and I can show you

as long as you properly do a quick riposte you can outpace any jab

it is important to say though that latency can impede on this, but that goes with most of the game's mechanics

@orchid abyss would you like to hop in game w/ me so I could show you? or nah

[hybrid citrus]

you aren't. it's just that the way initaitve works is you are only guaranteed your fastest option. If you attempt to do a heavy, a drag, or slow down your attack in any way you forego initiative

if you play safe you will be safe and maintain that initiative

if you do not press the riposte button instantly, and the acceleration isn't perfect frame 1, then it is 'slowed down' from its max potential speed

foregoing that initiative.

if you want complete assurance, just press the riposte button faster, or delay activation and active parry their jab

you have two options. either doing it faster or delaying activation

you are forced to do that because the game takes skill to beat powerful opponents and unfortunately, gambling is a form of skill

so you need to anticipate that technique and surpass it with a well timed riposte, that being a quick or delayed one

if you counter you should be much safer than if you riposte, since they can't combo

but if you feint that counter or make it heavy, you lose initiative

then you shouldn't have a problem

just accelerate your counter and you'll outpace it

if you'd like, I can show you how

ok. I'll join now. wanna vc?

lmao this is what you call overpowered?

as you can see, you cant gamble jab someone EVER if they know how to riposte properly

it simply doesnt work. you'll either get hit or just get active parried

now are their outliers where someone played properly and still got finessed? sure, but they can be explained by latency or the game generally not working beacuse it's a buggy mess

but in those tests we just did I had no issue defending against gamble jabs whatsoever

[trail creek]

Yeah you can. If you light drag your attack so it hits the enemy's block at the very end you can input a jab immediately, and because the attack is already finished there is nothing left of the attack to be slowed down from comboing into a block. Jab lands before their riposte, from my experience active parry only blocks it if the person does a delayed riposte and intends to do it

There are some outliers of course like super quick weapons but you'd be surprised how much you can get away with

[hybrid citrus]

we just hopped in a server and he was unable to jab me whatsoever.

their attack would outpace your jab and if it didn't, active parry would block it

[trail creek]

He either doesn't know how to do it properly or you're using one of the weapons that can work around the light drag thing due to speed

[hybrid citrus]

he was using dagger and I was using greatsword, all I did was just do quick ripostes and delayed ripostes. when I do a quick riposte I hit him first and when I do a delayed one he gets active parried.

I would like to believe he was competent because he is over level 900 and he made this thread explaining complex concepts like quick and delayed ripostes

I'm open to testing this with anyone who is interested like I said. I'm not saying it is easy to use these techniques to counteract jabs but they do work

[trail creek]

The way of doing it that I described isn't exactly something a non-duel gremlin would know

[hybrid citrus]

perhaps but like I said the guy who made the thread (who is now gone lol) was extremely competent

I could show you the footage of the duels

[trail creek]

No I don't doubt that he was competent, it's just that there is a niche way of gambling jabs

[hybrid citrus]

could you show me footage?

[trail creek]

I also don't doubt your sincerity

[hybrid citrus]

likewise

[trail creek]

I think I can. @eternal forum Do you happen to have any footage of the jab gamble left over. You do it every chance you get so I doubt you don't

[hybrid citrus]

I think what you may be referring to is a rare glitch where when you hit an enemy's block on the tail end of the release it doesn't register that you hit them and doesn't apply the slowdown on the combo. sort of like how lockout happens on really long drags and it thinks you missed when you didn't and then you can't block or counter.

[eternal forum]

Oh yeah, I can probably just pull up a random fight and it'll be there

[trail creek]

It does register the slowdown on the combo, it's just that there isn't anything left on the attack so there is a very small amount that can be slowed down

[eternal forum]

Can't get it to you until tomorrow evening as I'm not at my PC rn

We're talking about my BS riposte skipping jab right?

[trail creek]

Yes yes

[hybrid citrus]

well then that would be an oversight on the slowdown itself rather than a jab issue specifically. All that would need to be done is to apply that 'remaining slowdown' before the comboed attack comes out

[eternal forum]

Just do it in game? I can give repro steps

[trail creek]

Also I found it out first

[trail creek]

I can't be fucked to boot up chiv either :/

It's midnight. Tomorrow

[eternal forum]

I'm meant to be getting up at 5 tomorrow yet here I am

[trail creek]

You've got a point

[eternal forum]

@hybrid citrus What weapons are you both using?

[hybrid citrus]

I was using greatsword, the OP was using Dagger

[eternal forum]

Who was jabbing?

[hybrid citrus]

with throwing knife jab, he was. he made me use greatsword with the intention of proving I was incapable of riposting him

I have the footage but I cannot sent it in here due to file size

I expect you to purchase nitro for me swiftly

[eternal forum]

The release of the dagger will make this hard to do

It's easier with GS

[hybrid citrus]

the original discussion is surrounding how one handed jabs specifically are too powerful to gamble jabs with and should be nerfed

I was explaining that due to the many weaknesses of one handed weapons, on top of the counterplay to jabs like quick/delayed ripostes, they did not need to be nerfed

then we played and I showed him how I defend against jabs in a fight

[eternal forum]

Oof, this is a topic and a half

[hybrid citrus]

yeah it doesn't help that OP deleted every single comment and left the Discord

[eternal forum]

I'd disagree heavily but before I get into discussion, I need to bring up my own footage

[eternal forum]

Ok

@hybrid citrus

[fickle arch]

Whgat happened to OP

[drowsy siren]

He got executed

[hybrid citrus]

yeah I'm sayin in this situation if he accelerated faster (along with riposting faster) he would have interrupted the jab attempt. Or he could have delayed the riposte to active parry it

[eternal forum]

True but it's extremely hard to predict and you can force your opponents view point into making accels nigh impossible

Also, you're considering the top players perspective here. I know that @trail creek catches maybe 60% - 70% of them now but your average decent duelist will struggle to read this unless I spam it to high heaven

[hybrid citrus]

well that is what I would consider superior footwork. if you're purposefully avoiding accelerations by moving opposite. but it is equally difficult for the jabber to predict that

since ripostes and counters can be done in the alternate direction

so they can't really predict which side you will accel from

[hybrid citrus]

'top players' is only small because of an information drought. if this game was popular the tech necessary to counteract jab gambles would be popularized overnight

also, if the game was actually competitive then it would be widely known as well

[eternal forum]

Sure but if everyone adopted that playstyle, A) you'd need to delay your ripostes making each duel much longer as both players effectively turtle and B) This only applies to faster weapons. In the clip, it's a Dane Axe Overhead that is gambled out of riposte. Even if it isn't the fastest accel, compared to other weapons, it's still extremely fast. Any mid speed weapon can get gambled out of it.

Faster weapons can only defend, slower weapons can't. Also, in my eyes this is a tech which shouldn't exist as it fundamentally breaks the game. If you riposte something without delaying it heavying it or feinting it, it should have the initiative

[full wagon]

this is more about jab being a bad mechanic in general than one-handed jabs specifically being particularly bad though. 1h jabs can also be dragged which lets you variate the timing on them even more which makes them even more awful.

jabs were a mistake they had to make due to the overly generous counter windows which were required due to the awful server quality and low tickrate

otherwise you can just turtle and late counter forever

[eternal forum]

Good point, it definitely seems like all the jabs have different release timings. If we were to bring them all down to a common amount, what should it be brought down to?

[full wagon]

the game would be better without jabs as a mechanic, but that'd also require tighter counter windows and, most of all, better server quality

two things torn banner is clearly not interested in providing, especially the latter

[eternal forum]

Pole weapons, 1h and a few outliers all seem to have really powerful jabs

[full wagon]

I think the jabs actually have the same release. It's just that 1h jabs are "to the side" and thus draggable whereas 2h jabs are centered and thus harder to drag

2h jabs are a | while 1h jabs are a \

the rapier does get a unique jab which affects shield jab as well which iirc has a faster windup but I don't know that the release is actually different

[digital sage]

Just block

[digital sage]

If you quick riposte you can outspeed the jab

[eternal forum]

Depends on the weapon, not all of them can do that

[digital sage]

I can do it with gs

Well could

[eternal forum]

If you time it correctly, it beats a GS stab riposte iirc

@trail creek

We tested this right?

[trail creek]

Alt GS stab riposte can beat it sometimes. But I think it wouldn't be accurate to say "if you do your riposte correctly you can beat it" as a blanket statement. Like sure there are outliers but I beats a lot more ripostes than you would think

[digital sage]

If I do quick riposte oh accel I can outspeed it like 8 maybe 9/10 times

[trail creek]

You two should test it then @eternal forum

[digital sage]

Could do but I'm washed so my accels as good as they used to be

[eternal forum]

He's scared of me

(real)

[digital sage]

real and true

Also fat