Archer Class Discussion and what you want changed. (Actual Archers only to keep talk relevant)

[vernal trellis]

AHHHHH okay

[patent echo]

Ignore my temper tantrum in the beginning lmao

[full coral]

thats not a glitch, what is happening is that youre picking skirmisher, but the archer limit has been reached. so its spawning you as an alternate class with a small shield

[boreal owl]

Then it’s a bug, bazam

[vernal trellis]

Temper Tantrum? I see a warrior with a warriors mindset! " Swing like an ass hole! " lol

[patent echo]

For the Oooordaaaah!

[quaint notch]

so its working as intended is your point?

[dull cliff]

I don’t think this counts to Archer haters because they aren’t good archers. That is what we call Archers that die in videos.

[boreal owl]

If you’re not dying in this game you aren’t playing it right

💯

[dull cliff]

I die more to Ballista’s than swords I think. Those hitboxes are never the same and trying to punish/shoot them is like winning the lottery.

[patent echo]

Im the main character so I’m really not supposed to die at all

[boreal owl]

Sounds like you're not using enough cover

[boreal owl]

What if you're Goku

[dull cliff]

Trees have a funny way of blocking shots only sometimes on Ballista bolts.

[boreal owl]

https://tenor.com/view/skillissue-skill-issue-gif-22125481

[vernal trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/simply-a-skill-issue-skill-issue-bad-batch-echo-gif-21827947

[quaint notch]

https://imgur.com/a/iQnJphL 🫦

[dull cliff]

It’s wild how many people stand under that on defense. I like shooting the first one to move them back and for some reason they always group there, it’s like they don’t know you can shoot from the other side.

[patent echo]

Is bro the main character?

[vernal trellis]

I honestly feel bad for archers in FFA

[boreal owl]

So when are we miccing up for Archer Discussion

[vernal trellis]

I say if Keeper and Random go at it again we all need to be in a VC together and let them at it in the thread

and spectate it

[earnest seal]

sobs
cries,
Weeps even

[quaint notch]

when u use archers as bait and also to triangulate your target 💀 https://imgur.com/TOOeiQF

https://imgur.com/meMGKwk its a symbiotic relationship ❤️

[boreal owl]

Ngl, this clip is very cringe. There's a multitude of things wrong with it. Honestly, it disgusts me. But rather than continue to berate your obvious ignorance, I believe it to be more productive to enlighten you on your rather obvious mistakes. They are as follows:

1. you are not playing skirmisher
2. you are not using throwing axes

[quaint notch]

lol i dont know if i got to pick a class that map

[quartz jetty]

im not sure if skirmisher is actually good or this is a psy op planted by the devs

[boreal owl]

Skirmisher is good.

[quaint notch]

lol skirmisher is great for giving other classes javelins to throw

i dont thin i have a clip on this new hard drive but my old favorite move is grabbing jav from an enemy archer then launching it back into their face lmao

[earnest seal]

Using a mace: 🤓
Using a cudgel:
Using a javlin overheads only:

[quartz jetty]

sounds like it never happened

[quaint notch]

why would it never happen ive posted clips of much more difficult moves lol

[quartz jetty]

[boreal owl]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/902017291309416478/1124907356841578576/caption.gif

[quaint notch]

i did have a cool move that i tried that failed earlier tho, somebody tried to kill me with a throwing mallet and after it bonked off of me it bounced in front of me

i grabbed it in midair and wanted to kill them with it after the bounce but i accidentally then re-grabbed the item i originally had in the slot and died

however im now going to die many more times trying to do that move again

[quartz jetty]

LOL

[quaint notch]

throwing axe is very fun, it was strangely the first weapon i tried to get good at lol

i was a noob but immediately noticed that the speed was helpful against basically the entire game running messer back then

[boreal owl]

throwing axe is just funny to use

hilarious to get range decaps

[quaint notch]

i like the chit chit chit noise it makes as you slowly knock off somebodys soul piece by piece

[boreal owl]

ALso hilarious when you are in melee range, and a guy swings at you but then you dodge back n chuck a throwing axe to kill him

[plucky lake]

That's usually how I get throwing axe kills

Since I can't aim them for shit

[boreal owl]

Its not about aiming well

Its about hail marying them until you get a miraculous kill

[dull cliff]

After playing Throwing axe more I decided to update my ranged weapon tier list

This pyramid has the hardest and most skilled of the ranged weapons up top and easier as it goes to the bottom

Throwing axes need a buff it’s practically a meme to play

[quaint notch]

https://imgur.com/8qBKgWq idk probably put ballista below xbow

lmao

[dull cliff]

I hate the ballista , if I am it .. it doesn’t work but if I just meme it .. it works better.

It’s an enigma, but on defense on Dark Forrest. That thing is a War Crime it’s so good. I’m not sure why it is so accurate on that wall checkpoint. But it’s not that good anywhere else

[exotic oracle]

Nah it’s always good

Especially on bulwark oh man, it’s like being the Germans on D Day

[boreal owl]

I almost always get more commendations when I kill w/ the throwing axe

Be like me, though, and commend after every death

We're all fixing for XP anyhow

[slender kiln]

I commend so people won't know I'm mad they killed me

[exotic oracle]

Def needs attention

[boreal owl]

also the same for me, its a mix

[quaint notch]

ive only been commended for 9% of my kills

13.1k on 136k lol

[boreal owl]

Weak

[quaint notch]

https://imgur.com/a/7oDlKEw i think its a style thing

[patent echo]

Is bro the main character????

[boreal owl]

So archers won this right

[plucky lake]

Archers won it

Throw your axes and shoot your bows, and remember to help your fellow archers and teammates in need.

[boreal owl]

How about just throw your axes

[quaint notch]

i recently got yelled at for "farming KDR" with throwing axes by standing on objective and killing somebody that was coming towards me

i think its time to use more throwing axes

in a sense they were correct since my ultimate goal in that moment was to get a kill without dying or leaving the obj

i think throwing axe archer is probably the hardest build in the game tho

[dull cliff]

Without a doubt it’s Throwing Axes. Actually throwing them though not just using the axes in Melee.

[quaint notch]

lol theyre ok in melee but they need better coding for range

[dull cliff]

That class is what these boys in here want all Archers to feel like lol

[quaint notch]

its better than it used to be

i remember when theyd legit be bouncing off ppls backs

[boreal owl]

Throwing axe archer is hard

Even with its bonus damage to knights it’s gonna take at least 3 to down someone

Maybe 2 with headshots

They’re awesome on bridge choke points though. The arc is enough to go over your allies and soften up the enemy or kill retreating ones

[patent echo]

Boutta eat both of these mfs alive

No Pause

[boreal owl]

You just paused

[quaint notch]

i think they do 107 dmg to knights with headshots

[boreal owl]

Yup but not enough to kill on full hp

[quaint notch]

why would throwing axe do that tho lol

theres only one weapon that can even 1hk knight

[boreal owl]

I never said it should

But that would be hilarious

[quaint notch]

....

i guess the relevance of the statement must be beyond me

[boreal owl]

That’s because you don’t use throwing axes you don’t understand

[quaint notch]

what levels your throwing axe at

[boreal owl]

Like 3 million

[quaint notch]

lol

[boreal owl]

Fuck if I know man I’m not home

[quaint notch]

so 3

[boreal owl]

Nah 4

I think it’s like 13 been trying to level them

[quaint notch]

i mained it for quite some time

[boreal owl]

But did you ever get good at them?

[quaint notch]

yeah i would say so

i appreciate that the goalpost moved from "using them" to skill level real quick tho

[boreal owl]

I’ll move it back then

Now it’s back to “using them”

Congratulations

Anyways yeah buff throwing axes make them insta kill all classes

[patent echo]

Throwing axe is shit

Javelin>>>

[plucky lake]

I can't throw either worth a shit but atleast I unlocked the skins I wanted

[boreal owl]

https://tenor.com/view/why-would-yous-say-something-so-controversial-controversial-gif-15274636

Because btw you’re wrong

[quaint notch]

give throwing axes a health leech

1:1

[plucky lake]

Explosive ammo

[quaint notch]

let skirmisher use the braziers that longbow places so i can throw flaming axes n javs

[plucky lake]

Turn their quiver into a pitch bucket so all their weapons can be set aflame

[quaint notch]

let me also set myself on fire

[plucky lake]

Yes

[quaint notch]

if an archer self immolates it should buff nearby teammates

[plucky lake]

Flagelant class unlocked

[boreal owl]

Replace quiver with Super Quiver

[quaint notch]

2 quivers

sewn into the pant legs

[boreal owl]

Add throwable mallets

[plucky lake]

4 quivers

[boreal owl]

5 quivers

[plucky lake]

Add throwing pans

[patent echo]

8 quivers?

[plucky lake]

Yes

[gleaming lodge]

Guys where is the heavy crossbow!?!??!? We need it asap!

[vernal trellis]

So something to bring up. For FFA Tournament coming up, we actually decided to ban archers " But not Skirmishers " cause we made a vote that they are free kills

[dull cliff]

Are you sure it isn’t because someone would blame an Archer if they ended up losing by like 3-5?

But really if they are brave enough to enter as a Warbow or Crossbow that is some skill if it is against top Melee players.

Wouldn’t someone winning with that handicap be more impressive than any other class? (Not saying one would)

[vernal trellis]

Im part of the mod group that discusses the FFA Tournaments. We had archers before but they just turned out to be free kills since they have no team to rely on to protect them.

[quaint notch]

longbow and xbow are a joke in FFA since they can easily be 1hk walking out of spawn lol

skirmisher as well really

[vernal trellis]

Skirmishers have more of a chance then archers. Skirmishers spawn with a shield and a weapon to block with, Archers dont so they can get 1 shot as soon as they spawn cause they cant block

[quaint notch]

yea if you dont get back swung or ganged on

[dull cliff]

Are there many archers in FFA outside Skirmishers?

[quaint notch]

archers might not have a team in FFA but FFA fighters will stop fighting each other to team against archers

[vernal trellis]

Yes

[quaint notch]

yeah i used to play a lot of archer in FFA tbh

until the highland sword + knight getting great sword and then it was too many 1hks

[dull cliff]

Seems like if they are good enough it should warrant an exception, but it’s a good rule to prevent just feeding ya.

[quaint notch]

its not even a skill thing is the problem

people will wait until the millisecond you can be hit

and you have your ranged weap out and cant do fuck all

[vernal trellis]

i have a video give me a second

[quaint notch]

i really enjoy(ed) FFA but as soon as melee archer became "wait for the archer to spawn then overhead with HS" it wasnt even a game anymore

[spice cedar]

they should probably make the ffa spawns not terrible

[vernal trellis]

Even though this isnt an archer but this is what i can do right off the bat every time i spawn and an archer cant switch in time to stop me from doing it unless they get a lucky jab in

[quaint notch]

i gave up on asking for FFA improvements

yeah thats basically what archer is like lmao

[spice cedar]

that poor gamemode

[quaint notch]

thats exactly why i stopped playing, because way more classes and weapons can do that

and in maps like galencourt youll have 4 people mid swing when you spawn

[vernal trellis]

I honesty wanted to do a thread that asked for archers to spawn with secondaries equiped so they can defend themselves when they spawn in FFA

[quaint notch]

so youll just spawn into an incoming cleave and instadie

ive asked for that change forever

bc of that specific dynamic

its obvious FFA is done being worked on since the fighting pit still has fucked up spawns lmao

the most effort theyve put into the gamemode in 2 years was removing the ridiculous horse map

[spice cedar]

tbh I forgot that map existed

[vernal trellis]

Honestly the fighting pit is loved so much that the FFA discord is actually called the Fighting Pit lol

[quaint notch]

its honestly a shame bc FFA does have the best community but i dont like being forced into or out of any classes

that game mode is what first made me realize that TB was basically not using mathematical concepts to design their game

i was like wait, the spawns in here have absolutely zero logic to them and its absolutely shitting the mode, this cant be right!

haha noob me 😦

[spice cedar]

well they probably used in-game statistics to decide to nerf the maul

it seems they just don't think about the way they set up the spawns or the desertion zones or anything really

[vernal trellis]

Honestly there isnt anything they can do with the spawns all that much since its an FFA and they cant just spawn people in the middle of the map besides some points they did in Warden Glade but then Warden Glade is a big map to do that.

[quaint notch]

they could do some things though

[spice cedar]

they could make dedicated ffa maps instead of repurposing tdm maps that have spawns meant for team modes

[quaint notch]

they could make spawn location dynamic even among extant spawns and prioritize vacant areas

theres not really much to justify spawning into a 5 person fight in a mode where teh win condition is determined by kills imo

[vernal trellis]

Honestly idk what they could do. Fighting Pit is as good as it can get, Court Yard they could improve a little bit on it for how big that is, Warden Glade is honestly fine, Tournament grounds again is a small map too and not much can be done there either

[quaint notch]

dont make FFA 40 person and that solves a good portion right there

cap it at 30 and the maps become "bigger" WRT areas safe to spawn in, including tournament grounds which has a lot of areas to spawn in honestly

its not like its rare to spawn in tournament grounds 3 feet from a fight and then look across the way at a different spawn location and its empty af

[vernal trellis]

Our first FFA Tournament was just the fighting pit map and we had 45 player playing at once. Everyone loved it for the first 2 rounds but after that it did get boring playing on it over and over lol.

[quaint notch]

having spawn time itself be dynamic to a degree based on availability is another option

instead of X PERSON MUST SPAWN IN Y SECONDS, X PERSON MUST SPAWN IN Y-Z RANGE DEPENDANT ON DISTANCE OF ENEMY

[vernal trellis]

Well you do get the occasional issue of you have to run across the map to fight people

[quaint notch]

better than dying in .5 seconds

[vernal trellis]

Even on Courtyard and Warden Glade on a full server

[spice cedar]

being alive longer is probably preferable to getting spawn killed

[quaint notch]

better for the integrity of the game itself and better for the player

spawning into an extant fight just means youre effectively an unearned kill on a lottery

[vernal trellis]

Fighting pit even if you limit to 30 players you can still die in .5 seconds.

[quaint notch]

because you spawn into a fight

which ive addressed now 2 different ways to mitigate that

can you even spawn out of the tunnels on that map in FFA lol

[vernal trellis]

Well you said bring it down to 30 players which again wouldnt solve the issue at all, and them diversing the spawns even farther from each other which again is not possible for 2 maps would make it take longer for players to fight

[quaint notch]

tell me why its not possible

you just explained why it isnt preferable to you personally

[vernal trellis]

I told you why.

[quaint notch]

because you dont like that it would take longer for people to fight doesnt mean it isnt possible

[vernal trellis]

Its not personally its logical.

[quaint notch]

its more logical than spawning somebody into a fight with no real chance of defense

you simply dont prefer it to that

thats the reality

the condition youve listed as preventing the possibility is a subjective one that has no bearing on the "possibility" of implementing something

[vernal trellis]

Again even with a full 40 player server on Courtyard or Warden Glade you still need to run across the map to fight people time to time and that is an issue that players bring up. Bringing it down to 30 players they would have to do the same thing but more often. You cant spread the spawns farther away from each other on Fighting Pit and Tournament grounds since they already small maps and pretty much utilize the whole map to spawn.

[quaint notch]

its possible to spawn people close enough to mitigate that but out of a fight if the maps that big then

range from enemy > X AND < Y

and if you have a dynamic timer as well that makes it even easier

[vernal trellis]

Again 2 maps you cant spawn them farther away then they already are lol or you not spawning everyone in the beginning of the match since you have to take out spawns to not start a fight in .5 seconds and they have to wait even longer to spawn which no one wants to do. Thats just the reality of FFA with the maps they currently have and the biggest reality is, everyone prefers to play either Tournament Grounds or Fighting Pit over the other 2 maps in the FFA Rotation

[quaint notch]

so the map is big enough that peopel complain about long walks to fights but small enough that its impossible to fix

youre talking out of both sides of your ass on that one i think

[vernal trellis]

Tbh his is the first time i seen someone that has an issue getting into a fight really quickly in FFA.

[quaint notch]

you brought it up not me

[vernal trellis]

So your not reading. I said the 2 maps that you couldnt spread spawns apart or make it fewer players is Warden Glade and Court Yard for already how big they are. You aint reading.

[quaint notch]

neither are you

[vernal trellis]

I said getting into a fight really quickly. Thats the issue on taking too long to get too fights

[quaint notch]

youve decided that fixes arent possible lmao

keep your opinion im not here to change your mind

[vernal trellis]

Cause you logically cant lol. I literally just explained it and it aint opinions, these are facts which were already discussed on lol

[quaint notch]

why does a dynamic spawn timer not work

[vernal trellis]

Your issue even with that is how you gonna input that into Fighting Pit when the map is so small your actually just fighting at spawns.

[quaint notch]

how does a dynamic spawn timer not improve the situation

explain that to me

[vernal trellis]

#1120674199158141018 message

[quaint notch]

suddenly its off topic

[vernal trellis]

How would yu do it lol

" range from enemy > X AND < Y " on fighting pit good luck lol

[quaint notch]

spawn time range between X and Y seconds, spawning at / closer to X if distance allows, or if not, maximally at Y

[vernal trellis]

People would be waiting a life time to spawn on fighting pit then lol

[quaint notch]

negative

[vernal trellis]

How wouldnt it

[quaint notch]

because Y can be hard capped at whatever the current cap is with X being simply earlier if available

youre about to tell me a preference again i can tell

and also "maximally at Y" means that spawn timers would never exceed Y seconds

[vernal trellis]

So again Fighting Pit Map super small, they gonna be fighting at spawns regardless and your gonna tell me your gonna use range to tell whether or not they can spawn there? They would have to wipe each other out first before people can spawn and if you get people that arent taking each other out which is usually the whole map unless someone 3rd parties them then they aint spawning lol.

[quaint notch]

so? theres nothing lost in my system and its mathematically simple to create

its an improvement that youre arguing against for basically zero reason

[vernal trellis]

So? Who wants to wait to spawn for over 20 seconds or possibly more lol?

[quaint notch]

youre ignoring or dont understand what hard cap at Y means

so who isnt reading now?

[vernal trellis]

Even with hard capped its still the same issue lol

[quaint notch]

you cant tell me that keeping the current cap will make it take longer to spawn than it currently does

thats just not how it works lmao

and if you spawn at X interval at +distance then i guess you have some time to get to the fight, regardless of the map

[vernal trellis]

Again brother your the only one that thinks its an issue. Only thing people are complaining about for spawns is how long it takes to get into a fight and not how quickly they get into fights. I aint gonna keep going back and forth on it when im in the FFA community that constantly talks to the FFA community all the time lol. I basically just told you why these couldnt work which again " Was Already Discussed On " cause someone else was saying the samething you are saying and they realize too when we messed around with Zain's private servers that it doesnt work.

[quaint notch]

Only thing people are complaining about for spawns is how long it takes to get into a fight and not how quickly they get into fights.

explain this in different words to me

[vernal trellis]

In a different language? I dont understand how your confused about this?

[quaint notch]

sooo youre not gonna clarify it

also dont call me brother thats honestly cringy af

[vernal trellis]

What am i clarifying exactly? Like do you want me to put it in different sentences? Only thing people are complaining about for spawns is how long it takes for them to get into a fight. They arent complaining about how fast it takes to get into a fight. Is that better or???

[quaint notch]

yeah you did a good job

ive changed my mind and decided youre correct

[vernal trellis]

Im not trying to bash you in any way shape or form so i hope you dont think i am. We actually did test this when we had one of our guys actually get the private server together that Zain put up and we tested this cause someone else were saying the same thing you did. It doesnt work with the FFA maps.

[plucky lake]

I'd ban skirmishers too honestly.

[slender kiln]

I hate when mommy and daddy fight

[plucky lake]

Hi Ayla

[slender kiln]

Hi Arbalestier

[carmine loom]

is it safe to come out yet

[slender kiln]

This is an archer thread, we've already all come out

[vernal trellis]

Its to allow people the option to technically play one of the subclasses, as we dont want to really try and limit gameplay.

[plucky lake]

Then why ban archer

[vernal trellis]

Cause everyone agreed that there wasnt any way to win as playing archer or crossbow and considered them free kills. " This was agreed upon the players who played archer as well " Skirmisher is left open since they actually can defend themselves and arent much of a free kill as Archers and Crossbowman are.

[plucky lake]

I disagree but I'm not participating.

[vernal trellis]

Well if you go into a casual FFA server then yeah its possible but when a whole bunch of OG players playing FFA, Archers dont really last long and the stats we had on those Archers from last Tournament does show they have no chance on winning.

[plucky lake]

Again, I still disagree. I'm not here to argue sample size and population though, if it was my tournament I'd limit everyone to the subclasses under one class to begin with for fairness or bar none because that's how the game is.

[vernal trellis]

Thats why we tested no limit on classes to see how it goes and basically go from there. FFA Tournaments never existed till basically now for Chiv 2 and this will be our 2nd Tournament coming up on July 22nd. So we still switching things up and testing to see what would be the better option.

[patent echo]

I’m going purely off of a blind whim here guys, but I think he may or may not, or may, or may not like archers

[plucky lake]

He secretly loves then and wants to be one

[boreal owl]

https://tenor.com/view/hulk-hogan-brother-gif-20427662

[plucky lake]

https://tenor.com/view/hulk-hogan-shake-hands-pleased-happy-macho-man-gif-11860553

[patent echo]

https://tenor.com/view/hulk-hogan-nodding-nod-yes-yup-gif-13973219

[earnest seal]

What makes you think that?

[vernal trellis]

Nah he loves them lol

[slender kiln]

I wanted to duel him so bad but he's Eur*pean

[boreal owl]

Pean

[vernal trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-lightsaber-gif-25408936

[quaint notch]

https://imgur.com/owbqyBE

[vernal trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-sable-gif-18757177

[boreal owl]

End this discussion

[patent echo]

End yourself (ingame)

[boreal owl]

Reported

[halcyon solstice]

wOaH Archers are cooky ey gang!

[boreal owl]

Archers win again

[dull cliff]

What are the odds the Siege Crossbow doesn’t end up being a 1 head shot kill on other classes like in 1.

https://youtu.be/bBq04xO3lvU

I may end up going back to Crossbow if it stays true to the first game.

Be nice to one shot the same classes that can 1 Shot you.

[boreal owl]

Silence, crossbowman

[plucky lake]

Yeah dunno how I feel here

[spice cedar]

you should feel angry, like you're ready to pointlessly argue for 6 hours for the entertainment of your betters

[quaint notch]

i see almost no chance that a new archer weapon 1hk knights

i am enjoying the nice nerf to 1h axe where it no longer "hits enemies" tho

[dull cliff]

They are going to make it worse than in 1? They could make it 1 shot everyone but Knights I guess. But what is the point of a longer reloading and Crossbow if it doesn't melt people?
Also if hit detection isn't fixed that is a huge risk huge reward weapon. More so wasted shots / no regs

[quaint notch]

yeah theyll probably make it worse one way or another- TB hasnt really shown me with their actions that they intend to make the archer class more powerful lol

and melee players dgaf about hit detection, you could miss 99 arrows and theyd only care about the one that landed

[cunning umbra]

Dont sent death threats please.

[cunning umbra]

Didn't crossbows used to 1 shot to the head against either footman or knights?

[quaint notch]

you could never 1hk knights with xbow and i dont believe footmen either

[boreal owl]

It’s ez

[dull cliff]

Heavy Crossbow killed every class with a Headshot. Killed Men at Arms and Archers with 1 Chest shot.

[plucky lake]

Yeah that doesn't sit well with me even as a crossbow affecianado

[dull cliff]

Probably why they haven't released it and instead gave us the much requested pony weapon instead.

[quaint notch]

theyre talking about chiv2 afaik

[quaint notch]

i wanna know what they were doing that they broke 1h axe

[cunning umbra]

Cavalry sword is a flop

[unkempt tangle]

It's just curved

[quaint notch]

its also long af

i dont think its a flop so much as it went on 2 classes that dont get a huge amount of play

[dull cliff]

I guess the Mounted Warfare playlist is more popular than we think with the average player base to justify a pony sword.

[unkempt tangle]

Yeah it's nice to have something that performs closer to a 2h in range and speed for the shield classes

[unkempt tangle]

That isn't a stabbing weapon*

[quaint notch]

this is why sword is popular af

[boreal owl]

The numbers are off thus the weapon bad

[dull cliff]

Yes I too see they used conditional formatting. Interesting.

[boreal owl]

Cav sword is fine. It’s no throwing axe but it is serviceable

[dull cliff]

Looks like I found a nice weapon chart also

[lusty sundial]

Another way to tell the same joke

[plucky lake]

Give me a rock so I may throw it

[quaint notch]

i love rocks

[plucky lake]

They are nice yes

[quaint notch]

archer should get throwing rock as well

[plucky lake]

Yes

[quaint notch]

what numbers are off and how?

[boreal owl]

all of them

They pale in comparison to the throwing axe

[dull cliff]

Do you have all the skins for the throwing axes unlocked? I need to check them out to see what’s best.

[boreal owl]

The hurlbat is best

[boreal owl]

What was the point of this thread again

[slender kiln]

Ban Random Savior

[plucky lake]

For archers to discuss the archer class and changes/reworks that might be beneficial to the game.

[boreal owl]

No

I ain't done nothing

[slender kiln]

You wanted to put me in solitary confinement

[boreal owl]

Yes

[slender kiln]

Now I'm going to have you condemned to a lifetime of reading chivalry 2 archer threads

[plucky lake]

He wins regardless

[boreal owl]

https://tenor.com/view/wojak-gif-21991855

[quaint notch]

https://imgur.com/a/msD3acY

[boreal owl]

I’d be impressed if you used a throwing axe

[quaint notch]

im not trying to impress you 🙂

[boreal owl]

Statement still stands use more throwing axes

[plucky lake]

Throw pies

[young sable]

a meme weapon for skirmisher would be basedpilled

[dull cliff]

Do you have a favorite throwing axe clip?

Also it really seems like you need 10 axes instead of 6.

[quaint notch]

Something really should be done about the axes- i think the flight speed should be faster and that would help, i think part of the problem is that theyre too easy to avoid by "moving at all"

right now the build seems to largely exist to prove to the person you kill that youre more masochistic than they are

[dull cliff]

I had so many just go through people last night

It was a sad time

They also bugged out and wouldn’t let me pick them up a bunch.

[boreal owl]

Or it hits their shield somehow despite the shield facing well away from your shot

[quaint notch]

because shields are basically 360 degree apparatus now

yeah honestly between throwing axes being slow and blockable and only having 6 its kinda meh

they dont really do that much more dmg than throwing knives and you get 7 of those and can hold a 1h spear in your hand with them lmao

[quaint notch]

https://imgur.com/a/Ez4eEr3 this guy turning around to laugh at the dead archer made it a lot better

[young sable]

man I love it when people use emotes for comical effect like this

[quaint notch]

my only emote is teabag

[young sable]

I'll forgive you if you make sure to break the laws of physics and wobbly rapidly from back to front while you do it

[quaint notch]

thats the only way i teabag

[young sable]

perfection

[quaint notch]

3 fucking archers on a ramp lmao

[spice cedar]

that poor knight just wants to do the objective

[slender kiln]

The f key was made for these moments

[spice cedar]

no, friendly fir was made for these moments

FUCK I'm just leaving the error, two edits is too many

[slender kiln]

F key will solve the problem quicker, team damage is so highly reduced

[spice cedar]

yeah but I don't want them out of the way, I want to teach them a lesson

[slender kiln]

That's fair

[plucky lake]

Fire chicken

[slender kiln]

Koxwell fried chicken

[boreal owl]

Fire bomb

[dull cliff]

What kind of engineer is out here approving this tiny ramp

[quaint notch]

its wheelchair accessible but nothing can stop 3 archers with a combined IQ of 3

and probably that many kills

[dull cliff]

I wonder if they know they have the unblockable damage and auto aim?

[next furnace]

💯

[plucky lake]

This is worse than keepers proposed buffs

[boreal owl]

You’re a buff

[plucky lake]

https://tenor.com/view/gigachad-chad-gif-20773266

[quaint notch]

lol slow down arrow speed. you can legit crawl and dodge them

[plucky lake]

You can stand there and they'll probably miss

[halcyon solstice]

If we gonna balance archers around the worst archers, then why not balance melee the same?

Range increase for everyone, turn cap reduced heavily, block width as big as your screen. Its only fair 😁

Guys the silver ranked overwatch player is speaking. Getting shot back at was too hard so he here

[slender kiln]

How do I play Mercy in Chiv 2

[halcyon solstice]

Ask keeper, he was GM mercy. He missed the auto aim so he here

[slender kiln]

I was diamond mercy 😔

Fun stuff

[halcyon solstice]

Console GM is like PC gold 😂

[plucky lake]

Cool story bro

[halcyon solstice]

You took that personally? Oof

Just facts

You just said ... you were insulted 😂

Time to change the subject

@boreal owl yo we need a verdict. Hes rambling again

If that's how you view it sure. I dont really care 😂

[slender kiln]

Random said it's my turn for the title 🥺

[halcyon solstice]

If that wasnt projection, then i don't know what is 😆

[plucky lake]

It is your turn, vanguard main.

[halcyon solstice]

Sure i am 👍

Have you not called your parents in some time keeper ? Are you feeling lonely?

Just going off the information im given. How is this not projection?

I extrapolate youre a failed fps gamer and you start talking about parents? 🤔

Whys it on your mind?

[plucky lake]

Keeper stop arguing with your split personality.

You don't need this many alts

[halcyon solstice]

The irony

Oh wait. You dont understand irony i forgot 😂

Well everyone is wrong compared to you when youre always right

It must be lonely being that above people

Are we making a breakthrough ? Let it out buddy , its a safe place

Sure why not 😂

[plucky lake]

You two make a great couple

[halcyon solstice]

Ill acknowledge you, here

[slender kiln]

Me too? 🥺 👉 👈

😭

[plucky lake]

@slender kiln heyy

[slender kiln]

😘

[plucky lake]

[patent echo]

Me when Archer (I want to run straight towards it’s line of fire with no shield then complain on discord when I get shot in the throat with a sharpened stick)

[next knoll]

If you want to give archer class more stamina and better side weapons, fine by me, if you nerf their ranged weapon quite a lot.
No more headshots bonuses, vanguard bonuses and all this shit aim-assist and magnetized arrows. Just give them bonuses when they shoot at each others.
This way the hate will cool down quite a lot.

[plucky lake]

There is no real basis to justify nerfing all of their primaries. They already nerfed crossbow, the longbow did so poorly they had to lower the damage to get takedowns for it and other underperformers, the warbow suffers from wannabe sniper syndrome where it forgets it's not one, and Skirmisher weapons fall between olympic thrower or meme on any given day because of the accuracy.

Controller aim assist exists because the controls for aiming ranged weapons are dogshit unless you just sit there and pick off lemming knights and vanguards who only run in strait lines or people who just stand around like new archers. Blunt damage to knights is still worse than being shot at as a vanguard by a warbow unless you get headshot by a javelin, which only happens if you do what I just described.

The hate won't cool down for whiny noobs who can't deal with being shot in a casual medieval slasher. The real fix for the bandwagon would be to make Archers neutered or removed and the Devs have basically shown and said no to that.

[cunning umbra]

@next knoll opinion on javelins?

[unkempt tangle]

thank you for boiling down legit issues with a class into "whiny noobs" it really helps people take you seriously in your arguments

and the real fix is a range class that actually interacts with the combat system rather than live outside of it

[plucky lake]

I'm not required to professionally deflect what I want to say like the devs are, nor do I have the patience to sit and argue for hours in circular logic like Keeper. Deal with it or find something else to satisfy your complex because the game doesn't cater to you.

[unkempt tangle]

ah, "stop airing issues with the game, let me play with me free damage class" I see your position. Though I don't know what complex you think I have. A less frustrating game complex?

it seems to be a default position for many archer mains. They don't want to put effort in so they wish to preserve a class that can bypass the core defensive tools of the game.

[slender kiln]

Dude doesn't know there is no such thing as a "vanguard bonus" and that archers already do bonus damage to each other... another player trying to give balance takes on a class they've never played before

[next knoll]

Don't minimize the hate to whiny noobs, tons of chadd players, level around 1000 and some on the top of the world board hate archers.
They just ruin the fun of melee players. Noone appreciate being a moving target while being busy with hand to hand combat.
Idk 133 dmgs for a head shot doesn't look like nerfing to me, nor 70-75 dmgs to the body.
And what withthe fact that an archer needs 2-3 hits to die even with a special rush attack involved. Archer should die in one slash or boink, it's already painful enough they often hide behind their mates and next to a spawning spot.

[next knoll]

They are annoying but it's ok, they can't shoot from that far even if they are deadly, they feel fair.

[unkempt tangle]

They feel fair because they can be blocked, you're not just subject to a javelin doing damage to you no matter what

[next knoll]

That is also true. The fact we can't block arrow feel even more frustrating, but the distance and the sneaky attack while being busy is also very unfair

Everyone dislike them. That's the point.

[unkempt tangle]

They are harder to spot at range but the game area isnt so large that it's impossible. It's more that even if you spot them there's not much you can do. Maybe take cover, but not many objectives have a reasonable amount of cover on them

[next knoll]

They are annoying enough when you spot them, but you still can zigzag and make your way to them if it is 1vs1 or 1vs2, but you have to deal with other melee players and you can't focus on dodging arrows anymore.

[unkempt tangle]

you ever faced two archers on comms? Hell.

[next knoll]

The rate of death by archers seem to have exploded since the last big update, willing to help noobs to frag older players is backfiring as involvement in the game tends to be reduced more and more with this and other bugs occuring

[next knoll]

comms?

[unkempt tangle]

yeah two on voice chat. One spots you and they both turn to look at you. If they spread out well there's not much you can do in that life, you have to pick a shield to have a chance

[next knoll]

Yes I think I have encountered such thing, it is a pain, really.

[unkempt tangle]

any level of competency in an archer can be hell, you can try and approach with a zig zag but they can easily retreat behind their team again

[next knoll]

idk, I think the devs want to make it easier for noobs to score in this game. But it is just disrespectful for the long term players who support the game.

[plucky lake]

The game is easy for most people to get into regardless of class.

[unkempt tangle]

i just want it to be a class that has some level of skill behind it, some interaction with the main combat system that isn't totally 1 dimensional

[next knoll]

Yes, you have to be able to sneak on them, with is not always possible, or result into a kamikaze attack because they hide next to the spawn zone. Then when you're surronded by 5 ennemies they sometimes pull out their side weapon

I'd say, give them extra bonus against other archers and nerf a bit against the melees.

[unkempt tangle]

I imagine many archer would take this to mean a nerf, but really if it could interact with the melee combat, the peak of skill should be higher than it is now

[plucky lake]

If I want more kills then when I play archer I play a melee class. Dying once because you cheese 4 people by spamming counters is deserved.

[unkempt tangle]

what

[plucky lake]

You complain about breaking mechanics because you can't solid block projectiles but the only people salty they get shot are usually after they managed to survive four people.

Magic buckler

[unkempt tangle]

yeah cos that takes actual skill. and those four all have the tools to defend themselves, they just have to learn. You cannot learn to block an arrow. the counter window is inhuman

[slender kiln]

It takes skill to top score as archer too, just different kind of skill

[plucky lake]

I actually just countered an arrow the other day. Then I killed the archer.

[plucky lake]

Or a really shitty team

[next knoll]

That, and most of the time you don't see them coming as your are dealing with closer foes

[next knoll]

Yeah, that happens once every 50 games

[plucky lake]

I usually don't do it because I'm too busy shooting other archers.

[unkempt tangle]

again, even if you see them there's nothing you can really do. Counter from neutral while being attacked by four others is an impossiblity. Maybe you get lucky, but that's the limit of it

[plucky lake]

Or knights.

Or goblins.

Nah it's hard to practice inconsistently, better off just dodging or zigzagging to them.

When I get killed by really annoying archers I've gone back to swapping to warbow to oneshot them with the op arrow or pulling out my vanguard and politely axeing them to stop.

Usually the latter is more fun.

[unkempt tangle]

Most arrows will hit you faster than 200ms and since bows have no release animation you can't practice it. From extreme ranges probably but the further an archer the harder it is to spot them mid-combat

[plucky lake]

Most arrows are easy to dodge.

[next knoll]

You see, we arrive at a point where bad faith is the only thing that those archers can resort on, I think the debate ended few comments ago on this countering arrow topic.

[plucky lake]

You're more likely to make them miss by going back and forth.

[unkempt tangle]

true, but not something you can really control mid-combat

[next knoll]

Hey, you can stop arrows between your cheeks with few experiment.
Don't be a noob.
Now we need 50+ damages for each arrow shot. They are so easy to counter! 😄

[slender kiln]

I find it pretty easy to keep an enemy between me and the archer unless there's multiple targeting me at once

[unkempt tangle]

so all melee fights

[slender kiln]

Multiple archers

[unkempt tangle]

so all melee fights

[slender kiln]

No? I'm rarely getting shot at by multiple archers at the same time

[plucky lake]

I am

There is a sign floating above me that says shoot me regardless of class, but mainly archer.

Nerf the nighttime on desert, it's hard to see masons as the Tenosians.

[unkempt tangle]

well you guys must have killer movement to always keep someone in the way while you fight multiple others, or you're very static getting hit by things you could avoid

im sure there's videos to teach others about this great skill

[plucky lake]

I find the mason side better to fight from than the Tenosian side, it's not a good map to tdm.

[slender kiln]

The more people you're fighting at once the more likely they are to absorb friendly archers' arrows

[plucky lake]

More people means more pin cushions

Like the last four idiots that saw me pointing a crossbow at someone and still proceeded to run past me.

[slender kiln]

I just disengage if I'm in a disadvantageous position and let the archer swap targets if they've been shooting me

[unkempt tangle]

the lemon tactic, hide in a corner

[slender kiln]

I don't hide, I make myself unavailable to shoot briefly

[plucky lake]

I yell at them with mean berserker words

No wait those are howls

[slender kiln]

It can be just behind a wall while I'm still fighting etc

[plucky lake]

If I remember to do more than battlecry

[unkempt tangle]

need more chest high walls

a lot of objectives are very open to accommodate the melee fight

[slender kiln]

On some maps like desert I agree

Lionspire bridge, not a fan

[unkempt tangle]

all of lionspire really

[slender kiln]

I find the start and plaza have plenty to work with

The bridge and battlements suck though

[unkempt tangle]

plaza is super open, there's the statue but you usually have to be in front of it

[slender kiln]

Ya but there's tons of routes to it from different angles

Like 4 different approaches

[plucky lake]

Part of me wishes defenders had machiculations

[unkempt tangle]

but not on the actual objective. the bit from the gate to it is okay

[plucky lake]

Then I remember I hate counter battery already

[slender kiln]

I love archers on the town square objective, it means less bodies on the point so an easier cap

[unkempt tangle]

anyway ban archers

[plucky lake]

I will throw fish at you

[boreal owl]

https://tenor.com/view/chad-cat-chad-cat-gif-25535198

[slender kiln]

Gigacat

[quaint notch]

devs make it so you basically cant die to melee at all anymore

players: the % of my archer deaths is increasing DAMN U ARCHERS

devs nerf every melee weapon ever

players: i still seem to die to arrows

the feedback forum is filled with post after post begging for X melee weapon to be nerfed

and then they wonder why melee deaths go down, as the devs nerf melee weapons patch after patch

refuses to accept any of the current archer countering moves ARCHERS CANT BE COUNTERED

meanwhile war club and GS kill people that for a fact, i know the person using them doesnt even know are there

somebody hit me with a war club and 100% they got fucking startled by my presence lmaol

[boreal owl]

I think we should um bnerf akll archer wepaons

[quaint notch]

cut arrow damage down by 35%, but make all headshots 1hk all classes

i can play knight and talk in discord and go from bottom to mid on the board thats how easy it is

not possible on archer lmao

[boreal owl]

No

I have a better idea

Let's remove all Agathians from this discord. Now.

[slender kiln]

So true king

[boreal owl]

https://tenor.com/view/bravo-applause-round-of-standing-gif-20790999

[slender kiln]

That tenosian kush got me questioning my loyalty

[boreal owl]

it aint easy being green

[unkempt tangle]

when was the actual last melee nerf exactly? I guess reducing stamina drain on some weapons. That minor change doesn't make your rant look totally unhinged

[unkempt tangle]

I guess every class can pull a shield out their ass now? And if you're being killed by melee weapons near you, that's a skill issue. You have the tools to block that damage with every melee weapon in the game.

[boreal owl]

It's pretty ez to find a shield

[unkempt tangle]

ah, random chance, the best counter

[boreal owl]

Yeah every class should get a tower shield now

But I've always felt that TO encourages you to scrounge for objects and/or weapons to use. Love using me ballista bolt as a spear

[unkempt tangle]

you can of course but the chance of finding something isn't a good counter argument

[boreal owl]

The maps are littered with stuff to pick up what do you mean

[unkempt tangle]

usually throwables that don't block arrows

[boreal owl]

Shields are more common than you think

[unkempt tangle]

sometimes, maybe

[boreal owl]

Nah man trust me you'd be surprised at how often they get used as decoration and you can just scoop em

Yeah you are possibly giving up your two handed weapon with good reach and power, but its a trade off

[unkempt tangle]

it's the same reason barrels aren't actually OP, you can't count on having them since you can't spawn with them. Not all classes spawn with a shield so saying "just find one" isn't a good argument against not having a shield

[boreal owl]

Barrels are amazing wdym

Stops em dead in their tracks

[unkempt tangle]

and if you could spawn with several at a time people would be very, very angry

[unkempt tangle]

ah, october last year, lines up perfectly with all the other issue posts you were quoting before :thumb

[quaint notch]

im actually just going through every single major patch in order, because they all contain melee nerfs lol

the game has been made progressively and progresssively still less deadly every patch

so calling what i said unhinged is frankly showing your ignorance of the changes- which is fine, i dont expect people to read the patch notes frankly

yes, im legit just going in order from most recent

i think ive made my point though since i only had to go back to october and theres been 3 patches with melee nerfs lol

people have been BEGGING for this game to be less deadly since it came out. honestly its sad to see

[unkempt tangle]

so one patch that lines up with with melee hitbox issues you were using as a basis for your argument

[quaint notch]

this is what i said, i dont really see how i was incorrect at all

[unkempt tangle]

of the two of us, lmao

[quaint notch]

yeah, i watched it happen in real time

thats fine though- he's been exposed

this will be the last time i engage them in good faith

[unkempt tangle]

fair enough, I guess my point was wrong 🤷‍♂️

[quaint notch]

from now on ill skip the correcting part

i wasnt even kidding, i'm just not going to engage them anymore since theyre either liars or legit completely ignorant

[slender kiln]

😔

[unkempt tangle]

@quaint notch anyway, your initial point of your rant was quoting people having issues since 2.8, The parry box is fair, it does make random side hits less of an issue, perhaps archer deaths have gone up. It was just strange seeing you claim melee nerfs when any nerfs have been minor and mostly targeting troublesome weapons like highland sword or weapons with the stamina buffs to them

[quaint notch]

so you didnt read the patch notes

[unkempt tangle]

patch notes before 2.8 have no relevance to the complaints you quoted

[unkempt tangle]

yes, I adressed that

[quaint notch]

so constantly reducing the efficacy of melee weapons doesnt increase the likelihood that deaths will come from anotehr source in your mind

like i said- youre either lying or ignorant

[unkempt tangle]

unfortunately not everything I say is perfectly applicable at all times, and sometimes discussion is needed so both parties can have accurate points. I don't mind being corrected when I'm wrong, despite what certain people say.

[quaint notch]

yeah unfortunately you just shit whatever you want into a conversation regardless of whether it applies at all, and you do it a lot

i agree with you

nah, hes right about that

[unkempt tangle]

well fuck off then if you're gonna be an asshole about it

[quaint notch]

cool, feel free to stop interacting with me

[unkempt tangle]

no real discsussions here, got it

[quaint notch]

you called me unhinged and now are salty because im agreeing with you too ahrd

[unkempt tangle]

you're both unhinged tbh

[quaint notch]

meanwhile you never apologized, you only said "oh yeah sometimes i say shit that has zero relevance haha oops"

[unkempt tangle]

assholes with bad faith

[quaint notch]

nope, you called me unhinged for saying the devs nerf melee patch after patch and i showed you every major patch in 8 months and they did exactly taht

[hollow willow]

Nice to see that the archer vs anti-archer discussion is still alive and well

[slender kiln]

💪

[quaint notch]

he aint

[unkempt tangle]

the issues you quotes were since 2.8, which are minor at best, and that's why you're unhinged

[quaint notch]

what issue did i quote

[unkempt tangle]

dense mf

[quaint notch]

yeah? its an added effect with the other things i was talking about

those things are of course going to contribute to fewer melee deaths, and i was showing that thats what the game has been trending towards with every patch

badgers issue is that he doesnt even understand the broader point other people are making

[unkempt tangle]

which is why I admintted my question about "last melee nerf" was wrong

[quaint notch]

he makes his own irrelevant assumptions and then just- per his own admission- says things that arent even applicable

and doesnt even realize how often it actually happens lmao

[unkempt tangle]

I really enjoy keeper in the sidelines throwing insults after crying so hard about being insulted

[quaint notch]

hes not insulting you honestly

[unkempt tangle]

hows that?

dense mfs

[hollow willow]

Melee players when an archer simply exists: https://youtu.be/4cMVowbhpeA

[quaint notch]

youve called him unhinged as well now and all hes doing is being an unfortunate participant in interactions with you, and aware of how they go

[unkempt tangle]

hmm?

dumb fuck you are

[quaint notch]

yeah i mean, hes absolutely correct

you just dont like that its true, that doesnt make it an insult

correct

[unkempt tangle]

well you two can rub each other off in peace, fuck you

[quaint notch]

you call people unhinged and dumb and admit to saying things with zero application to conversations and then wonder why people recognize those traits in you

adios

also the highland sword is a perfect example of a weapon being nerfed too far imo

[boreal owl]

Smack down

[carmine loom]

archers are an example of a class not being nerfed enough

[boreal owl]

Source?

[hollow willow]

So archers win again?

[boreal owl]

Yup

Ez every time

[carmine loom]

Under the circumstances of aim assist, unblockable without a shield, ability to hide in spawn or behind teammates, little counterplay, unreadable animations. i’m probably forgetting more but yes imo they are not nerfed enough if some things were changed then it wouldn’t be like that but as it stands yes

[unkempt tangle]

since archers seem to hate dying to melee they can't block, they should all be forced to only use melee, that solves that issue.

so we agree no archer should use a bow? just melee weapons. solved, next issue, lets go

tbh I don't even know what the fuck you're on about, what mechanic is melee ignoring in this situation exactly?

[carmine loom]

PS+ players are only free kills if you don’t get insta headshot(aim assist) can make a flank to get pass 15 teammates and into enemy spawn area.

Unblockable unless you handicap yourself

Aim assist exist and people generally understand the concept of aiming and clicking some are better then others but they have 12-20 chances to land unblockable damage.

Yes they are unreadable anything else is cope, they can be countered but one in a team battle that is hard to to do if you are actually playing the game, arrow trails are useless if an archer has a drop of awareness they are gone when you make eye contact.

also please don’t link archer with melee they are way different, if you counter a swing wrong that’s on you for not timing it right

[unkempt tangle]

archery is just damage at range. what mechanic is melee ignoring? being close? archers can deal damage close too you know

[carmine loom]

That’s all for me today, you have no counter for what i said so

[unkempt tangle]

archers just need to take only melee weapons, it solves all their gripes with one hit kills on them

I don't know why I didnt see this before, it's a perfect solution

well you said this so idk why you're making things up now

[jovial compass]

Active parry happens constantly

[unkempt tangle]

exactly so archers should only use melee weapons all the time because they can now block melee attacks. I knew we agreed!

but we agree here

[carmine loom]

Excellent attempt at countering me and justifying unblockable damage(free) i’ll be back when you can come up with some actual reasons why archers are okay

🤓

[unkempt tangle]

archers should only use melee because they sometimes get one hit, it's like the basis of your whole shield argument

why should only archer get to play the weapon they want? No one should!

well im sure glad we cleared that up, it could've gotten ugly!

well that just shows your lack of understanding of maul specials, but you're in shock from this glorious news, I'll give you a pass

[exotic oracle]

what’s the context for the one hit speaking point?

[unkempt tangle]

archers can be one hit with some weapons, they've complained about it before

[exotic oracle]

if you’re flanked by a maul or a big sword ur being punished for not paying attention

just don’t get flanked

[unkempt tangle]

but if they're forced into melee it's no longer an issue

[exotic oracle]

this is where i get lost
i’m missing the jump from there to here

everyone agrees that archers should be the weakest class in melee?

[unkempt tangle]

did you miss my post in #🪓︱chivalry2 ?

[carmine loom]

why are they in melee?

[exotic oracle]

i did but ur sarcasm is lost on me

[unkempt tangle]

but since melee has been, in their words, gotten easier and easier, it shouldn't be possible to die in melee to melee

[carmine loom]

if you are in melee as archer you done fucked up

[exotic oracle]

they’re better off avoiding it, but sometimes they get flanked or they’re too close to their front line when it folds

[carmine loom]

then you’re playing to close and not paying attention

[unkempt tangle]

exactly, so if they're forced to play a melee class and weapon, they can no longer be punished

[slender kiln]

Nah, they fucked up thinking my knife won't carve em to bits

[carmine loom]

absolutely no reason for it

[exotic oracle]

ur still being sarcastic and i still don’t understand ;-;

i don’t follow this channel at all

[carmine loom]

oh no, archer thinks there a chad

[exotic oracle]

that’s what i was saying, yep

[unkempt tangle]

it's just a simple flip of keeper's fantastic arguments for just playing with a shield. We just force eveyone to play the class that counters what can kill them. for melee it's shields, for archers it's melee

[slender kiln]

It's a fact

[unkempt tangle]

no one gets to be happy, no one gets to complain

[exotic oracle]

if arrows could be blocked by normal weapons it’d be better
people shouldn’t be forced into such a tiny box for counterplay

[unkempt tangle]

I do agree but we must make the best of this situation

[exotic oracle]

this feels chronically online

[carmine loom]

i ask for active parry

reasonable?

[exotic oracle]

wdym?

[carmine loom]

i don’t believe weapons should block arrows

that feels wrong

[exotic oracle]

it’d be right for balance, and you’d still be a third party menace

[carmine loom]

*unreadable

[exotic oracle]

generous parry windows would be a good alternative

[carmine loom]

if you’re gonna say something say it like you mean it

yes, but they are unreadable as mentioned above

[unkempt tangle]

im not sure why you're still talking this has been solved

[carmine loom]

you have to read to understand me

[boreal owl]

https://tenor.com/view/project-sekai-proseka-puroseka-prsk-pj-sekai-gif-26280915

Tenosia

[carmine loom]

no

not today satan

[exotic oracle]

most people don’t know the timing
like i’ve parried arrows that were being released as soon as they hit full charge bc ik the timing, but that’s not generally the case

[carmine loom]

ah yes keeper making his judgements

[unkempt tangle]

now hold the bow for .5 seconds longer and read it

[boreal owl]

https://tenor.com/view/kermit-gay-kermit-potion-jaystation-gif-21430415

[exotic oracle]

the window for reacting to an arrow is generally very small, and they can be held
in fighting game terms, they have a variable timed attack that isn’t broadcasted

it’s only because i know the bow’s timing

[carmine loom]

by broadcasted you mean unreadable right?

[boreal owl]

https://tenor.com/view/five-night-freddy-bear-freddy-ákos-nyomi-gif-23138032

[exotic oracle]

no
all i play is archer, and i’m the exception to the rule

[boreal owl]

https://tenor.com/view/elite-phoenix-fnaf-five-nights-five-nights-freddy-gif-20947210

[unkempt tangle]

i'd love to see that nonexistant mechanic. Both holding a swing and getting instant release

[exotic oracle]

no i mean broadcasted, but it’s also unreadable
someone who’s trying to parry an arrow has like a 10ms window or something incredibly stupid like that

[boreal owl]

We are getting close to 6k comments here

[slender kiln]

Keeper's thread about to surpass Ziggy's

He has the title in arm's reach

[carmine loom]

so we agree unreadable as well

[unkempt tangle]

idk why we solved this already

[spice cedar]

we're stress testing this discord feature

[boreal owl]

https://tenor.com/view/purah-tears-of-the-kingdom-tribdux-purah-totk-totk-gif-1992032374810876929

[carmine loom]

isn’t broadcasted and unreadable

[exotic oracle]

their point was that u can watch a slow animation- heavy attacks don’t come out instantly
waiting an extra beat or two to release the arrow changes ur timing and there’s no animation to broadcast that ur doing it

[unkempt tangle]

if you can't read a feint that's on you

[slender kiln]

What if I can't read

[spice cedar]

I read a great book about reading once

[exotic oracle]

there’s no animation to read- just a window where the arrow can be released at max damage

[unkempt tangle]

if melee had archer mechanics it'd be like you hold the sword above your head then teleport the attack into the enemy, but the enemy HAS to counter you with knife counter timing or they get hit

[boreal owl]

https://tenor.com/view/war-of-rights-thumbs-up-gif-21951264

[carmine loom]

another win for archer

i mean melee

[boreal owl]

Archer always wins

[carmine loom]

talking point failed

unreadable

[unkempt tangle]

keeper not understanding mechanics moment

[boreal owl]

Hold up I know how to make this fun

@full coral defend your family honor!

[spice cedar]

don't invoke him

[boreal owl]

I just did.

@full coral Get in here now!

[spice cedar]

what have you done

[boreal owl]

@plucky lake We also need you! Mega brawl going on!

[slender kiln]

https://tenor.com/view/punisher-no-no-no-tanklorde-gif-25785566

[unkempt tangle]

how have you played for so long but you don't understand the difference it's ignorance or lies

[exotic oracle]

right, what i’m saying is that there’s no difference in animation between firing the arrow as soon as it’s charged and holding it

it means the timing the arrow comes out on is varied, and we can all agree that arrows are very fast

when someone is using a melee weapon, you can watch the animations change, even if they are delayed
when you delay an arrow, ur character doesn’t move at all

[carmine loom]

failed talking point as you would say

[spice cedar]

I love using my telepathic powers to read people's minds

[exotic oracle]

you know they’re going to fire, but you don’t have enough information to consistently parry arrows

[boreal owl]

I INVOKE THE ONE ARGUMENT MASTER RANDOM

[exotic oracle]

i agree

[carmine loom]

me and you both

[exotic oracle]

the point i’m trying to make is that there’s no counterplay outside of two specific subclasses

[spice cedar]

I'm calling the sanitation crew

[boreal owl]

@next knoll Fuck it we need you in this shit too it’s time to argue

[exotic oracle]

doesn’t need it for anything else

[carmine loom]

i’m still waiting for some valid counter points as to how archer is fine

[unkempt tangle]

that's been the point all along but to accept that he'd have to be wrong 🤯

[exotic oracle]

how did you infer thay?

[carmine loom]

literally counter there swords!!

rocket science

science rocket

[unkempt tangle]

HE SAYS IT AGAIN. plays for so long but does literally not understand the game mechanics

[exotic oracle]

i said there’s no counterplay to archer*, and you jumped to me saying there shouldn’t be counterplay to archer

*when i say this just add outside of shields bc i’m tired of typing it

[carmine loom]

bad faith

[exotic oracle]

arrows can’t be countered consistently

[carmine loom]

ones unreadable the other isn’t

[spice cedar]

nitpicking and biased

[exotic oracle]

the game doesn’t give you enough information or reaction time

[boreal owl]

Bye bye

[spice cedar]

this guy gets it

[boreal owl]

Tbh the melee noobs be malding so hard

[exotic oracle]

how about ad hom? ur just attacking him instead of responding to his point

[unkempt tangle]

misrepresenting how mechanics work is bad faith. Or you're ignorant on the game, it has to be one

[carmine loom]

and for good reason

[exotic oracle]

arrows cannot be countered consistently.

[boreal owl]

No they don’t fuck you

[unkempt tangle]

"no u" but IRL

[spice cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/minor-spelling-mistake-gif-21179057

[exotic oracle]

arrows cannot be countered consistently.

[quaint notch]

yes they can actually

the same mechanics apply to arrow countering every time you hit or miss them

[carmine loom]

we’ve went over this countless times

[boreal owl]

https://tenor.com/view/ironfoot-ring-pig-swine-charge-gif-22227628

[quaint notch]

you cant "consistently" counter arrows for the same reason you cant "consistently" counter melee attacks

[carmine loom]

impeccable logic

[exotic oracle]

the reaction window is 10-30ms depending on range and there’s no animation

[spice cedar]

I wish we had machines that countered arrows like the dwarves did

[carmine loom]

i can’t explain to people that refuse to listen

[unkempt tangle]

We have...

• still damage
• unreadable
• class specific
• one sliver of the map
• not on most objectives

[quaint notch]

therethere is an animation though?

[spice cedar]

cmon bro there's plenty of cover in aberfell

[boreal owl]

Gr8 b8, m8. I rel8, str8 appreci8, and congratul8. I r8 this b8 an 8/8. Plz no h8, I’m str8 ir8. Cre8 more, can’t w8. We should convers8, I won’t ber8, my number is 8888888, ask for N8. No calls l8 or out of st8. If on a d8, ask K8 to loc8. Even with a full pl8, I always have time to communic8 so don’t hesit8

[exotic oracle]

and the only way to deflect an arrow without a shield is by countering it- comparing it to melee counters is a false equivalence

[carmine loom]

just like wardenglade

[boreal owl]

Here's the thing. You said a "mountain lion is a lion." Is it in the same family? Yes. No one's arguing that. As someone who is a scientist who studies lions, I am telling you, specifically, in science, no one calls mountain lions "lions". If you want to be "specific" like you said, then you shouldn't either. They're not the same thing. If you're saying lion family" you're referring to the taxonomic grouping of Felidae, which includes things from house cats to ocelots to tigers. So your reasoning for calling a mountain lion a lion is because random people "call the big ones lions?" Let's get panthers and leopards in there, then, too. Also, calling someone a human or an ape? It's not one or the other, that's not how taxonomy works. They're both. A mountain lion is a mountain lion and a member of the lion family. But that's not what you said. You said a mountain lion is a lion, which is not true unless you're okay with calling all members of the lion family lions, which means you'd call house cats, tigers, and other cats lions, too. Which you said you don't. It's okay to just admit you're wrong, you know?

[exotic oracle]

the release animation is instant

[unkempt tangle]

it's literally refuting your points

[unkempt tangle]

where?

[spice cedar]

he's got you there badger

[boreal owl]

I’m going to subway

[spice cedar]

you have never

[boreal owl]

Badger just got OWNED

[quaint notch]

https://imgur.com/a/AWdwiJZ

[unkempt tangle]

just did, nerd

[quaint notch]

look to the right side of the statue

[carmine loom]

nice counter slash

[quaint notch]

you can clearly see the agatha archer drawing

? i took that video just now specifcally to show the archer

[exotic oracle]

the draw animation stops- it doesn’t tell you when the arrow is going to be released

[quaint notch]

LMAO

[exotic oracle]

like once it’s charged it can be held for a bit before you lose power

[unkempt tangle]

cool so when is that attack going to release?

[exotic oracle]

unlike melee attacks, which you can see, an arrow comes out with variable timing and the draw animation gives no feedback

[quaint notch]

suddenly we go from no animation to "well the animation that does actually exist, "

[unkempt tangle]

you are the dumbest fucker on the planet i swear to god

[carmine loom]

true

[exotic oracle]

okay let me correct myself
there’s no release animation

[spice cedar]

deserved

[carmine loom]

there is no animation for release

[exotic oracle]

you insult people left and right, he just said “fucker”

[quaint notch]

sso? and you can hold a melee attack too

[unkempt tangle]

yes, well done, gold star, moron

[quaint notch]

and it just stays up until it releases lmao

[carmine loom]

and you can counter it

[quaint notch]

and you can counter an arrow

[spice cedar]

bro the mods should just ban everyone here

[unkempt tangle]

what is wrong with you people

[carmine loom]

and it’s readable

[exotic oracle]

there’s no difference in animation between a held arrow and an instantly released arrow

[carmine loom]

and it’s blockable

and it’s not free damage

[boreal owl]

https://tenor.com/view/let-me-out-cage-angry-gif-24075632

[quaint notch]

LMAO

[boreal owl]

https://tenor.com/view/small-cat-angry-cat-cute-gif-24160051

[unkempt tangle]

no it's a way of putting across how I feel about you as a person

[exotic oracle]

you can, without changing your animations, delay the release of your arrow which already has a 10ms window close up and a 30 ms window at max range

[boreal owl]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-hes-not-happy-cat-glitch-cat-yell-cat-pet-gif-24454033

[unkempt tangle]

nitpicking and biased

[exotic oracle]

i clarified that i meant release animation, but pop off

[quaint notch]

the longer the arrow is held past that point the less dmg and accuracy it has though?

[carmine loom]

no

[exotic oracle]

there’s a window before you lose that

[carmine loom]

that’s actually a skill issue

[quaint notch]

you keep finding new thigns taht exist that counter your point and ignoring them

[exotic oracle]

and so you use that to change the timing of your attacks.. it happens naturally when you’re focusing on aiming

[unkempt tangle]

ill throw out a guess that this window is much larger than the arrow counter window

[exotic oracle]

my brother in christ i’ve been talking about this same thing

[boreal owl]

https://tenor.com/view/weegeepie-luigi-smg4-animated-gif-22270320

[quaint notch]

keep your religion outta here imo lmao

[unkempt tangle]

they have no point, they just sit on the same thing and go "no u" over and over to feel good about themselves. it's sad really

[exotic oracle]

it’s a figure of speech and i’m an atheist

[slender kiln]

Why aren't the headphones over his ears? Is he stupid?

[boreal owl]

No you’re not!

[carmine loom]

simply cannot be reasoned with

[boreal owl]

Shut up and let him do what he wants

[spice cedar]

Clearly you shouldn't be allowed to hold the arrow. It should fire as soon as the draw window ends. Now it's guaranteed to be consistently timed and nobody can complain. Surely this is a proposal nobody will complain about.

[exotic oracle]

i will throw rocks through your window

[boreal owl]

https://tenor.com/view/the-hub-gif-21010881

[exotic oracle]

you need to be able to hold the arrow to aim

[boreal owl]

I’m going to subway

[spice cedar]

krill issue

[quaint notch]

thank fuck the devs will never implement any of your suggestions honestly

[spice cedar]

can you get me a meatball sub please?

[quaint notch]

ultimately the only saving grace to your opinions is that the developers themselves have no interest in listening to them

[slender kiln]

Watch out for jared

[exotic oracle]

and because of that, the arrow comes out on different timing
there’s no difference in animation between an arrow that’s charged just to ready arrow and an arrow that’s charged to ready and held
and arrows are too fast to react to

all of this to say that the only way to consistently block arrows is to use a shield, whoch restricts your gameplay to two specific subclasses

[quaint notch]

lol imagine dying to archers enough but you cant manage to use any of the 4/9 remaining classes that can easily carry a shield either naturally or with limited sacrifice

ambusher gets free shields on the ground with effectively no penalty, and lol if you cant be a successful raider with only 1 messer and a shield on your back

"no i need this second messer"

[carmine loom]

you mean to tell me the difference is unreadable and therefore he release animation is unreadable as well?

[unkempt tangle]

anyway we solved this, archers are forced into melee, melee is forced into shields. no one can complain again

[exotic oracle]

all i play is archers
you’re attacking me instead of replying to my points

[quaint notch]

how is that a personal attack to you

[spice cedar]

the mark of a good compromise

[exotic oracle]

did i say personal?

[quaint notch]

..well if its me attackingg you specifically thats kind of intrinsic

[exotic oracle]

nah

[quaint notch]

so, you clearly thought the remark was directed at you

[spice cedar]

did you bring me the meatball sub?

[boreal owl]

I haven’t gone yet

[exotic oracle]

there’s ad hom and there are personal attacks
if i were to just misrepresent you and try to take away from your argument wihout replying to it, that’d be ad hom
if i called you a dumb bitch and dug a bit it’d be a personal attack

[spice cedar]

damn

[slender kiln]

[quaint notch]

the remark wasnt even directed at you

[exotic oracle]

instead of replying to this you said “imagine dying to archers”

[quaint notch]

you literally just assumed it was and decided it was an attack

[exotic oracle]

cool

[quaint notch]

the remark obviously applies to 100% of people that have issues with archers that ive already discussed at length

[spice cedar]

it's kind of phrased in a condescending way

[quaint notch]

"dumb bitch"

[exotic oracle]

you should reply to that post then

[unkempt tangle]

AND WITH THIS! By way of comments I give you the new, undisputed, woooooorld champion archer thread!

[quaint notch]

well- to your point- i certainly didnt reply to yours

[boreal owl]

I’m a slut for archer arrows

[exotic oracle]

it was a reasonable assumption for me to make 🤷‍♀️

[slender kiln]

Man can take the whole shaft

[quaint notch]

lol it wasnt even reasonable that you took it as an "attack" at all frankly

youre acting like youre the only person talking here- if we're gonne be 100% honest, and i mean this

[exotic oracle]

okay to clarify, personal attacks are ad hom but not all ad hom is personal attacks

[quaint notch]

i didnt even read the prior things you wrote directly before that until after you said i attacked you

[boreal owl]

https://tenor.com/view/ankha-ankha-house-gif-23332350

[exotic oracle]

no, i thought you were talking to me and when you said you weren’t i said okay

[spice cedar]

I declare myself the winner of today.

[exotic oracle]

i’m not “acting” like anything

[quaint notch]

oh sorry, you sincerely believed you were under attack

[exotic oracle]

now reply to the post

[quaint notch]

i stand corrected

[boreal owl]

@halcyon solstice is the current champ

[spice cedar]

he's the champ, but he's also not here

so I win today

[unkempt tangle]

So everything you say is just shit you spout without think or understanding then, huh?

[quaint notch]

how does this apply to my remark

[unkempt tangle]

Oh sorry I thought we were pointing out hypocrites

[quaint notch]

yes, lets say taht we are, and im still asking you how that applies to my remark

[spice cedar]

it's true

[slender kiln]

Even archers hate archers 😔

[unkempt tangle]

admitting you were wrong clearly makes everything you say worthless, that's how this works yeah? or is it only when it's other people? smells like hypocrisy to me

[quaint notch]

i was being sarcastic.

[unkempt tangle]

sure bud

[quaint notch]

....lmao

[unkempt tangle]

classic goal post move

[quaint notch]

no, its just true, i was saying that to mock him for feeling under attack for my statement

[exotic oracle]

i'm not a guy <3

[quaint notch]

i have no problem being 100% honest about this

[unkempt tangle]

https://tenor.com/view/mayweather-for-you-throw-gif-8082067

just take it, it's okay

[exotic oracle]

and i didn't feel attacked, i said it was ad hom- and if it had been directed at me, it would've been

[quaint notch]

lol sorry i was making fun of her for feeling under attack for a general statement about archer whiners

[exotic oracle]

them please <3

[unkempt tangle]

ah, so you're just an asshole instead. no worries

[spice cedar]

I too mock people for having emotions and not being able to perfectly infer what others mean through soulless text

[quaint notch]

fine, they said they felt under attack because of my general statement.

[quaint notch]

dont worry- they werent feeling those emotions apparently

[exotic oracle]

that's the language you use to say "you're resorting to ad hom"
you're deliberately conflating "i feel attacked and hurt" with "this is an attack on me instead of my point"

the word might be the same, but you're latching onto the wrong meaning even though i've clarified several times

[exotic oracle]

and you keep doing thaty- it's manipulative and it's bad faith

[quaint notch]

well, you either felt it was an attack or you didnt lmao

[unkempt tangle]

no way? bad faith? these two? D:

[exotic oracle]

again, i just said "that's the language you use to say you're resorting to ad hom"

and that it's not the same thing as feeling attacked

[exotic oracle]

i'm going to go smoke a bowl

[slender kiln]

All faith that is not placed in allah is bad. Amen 🙏

[quaint notch]

go attack taht bowlk id

[unkempt tangle]

take a small quote out of context and pretend it's a valid point. keeper 2.0

[exotic oracle]

allah can suck my left tit

[quaint notch]

i mean, dont tell people youre being attacked if it isnt attack in your mind when you get asked about it

[zinc plaza]

I really love how every time this creature starts to talk about something, he reveals how little he actually knows, and it further drags down every point he makes. Its one of the little things that makes it fun to pop in and read.

[quaint notch]

use different phrasing if that phrasing isnt acceptable

[exotic oracle]

feydrid is a keeper alt lol

keeper is suddenly back, wild 😏

that's so convenient

[unkempt tangle]

but then all your points would be worthless, we cannot change what we say, ever, else it displeases the archer mains

[zinc plaza]

lol, lmao

[exotic oracle]

they word things the same, keeper tends to vanish when they show up, and they act the same too

feydrid shows up carrying the same beef that keeper is

[unkempt tangle]

says the dude thinking melee attacks can be held, lamo

[quaint notch]

they never recanted the statement they just said i was manipulating the truth for using the word

[exotic oracle]

https://tenor.com/view/coincidence-i-think-not-coincidence-i-think-not-the-incredibles-gif-5096707

[boreal owl]

https://tenor.com/view/sable-cute-dog-derp-gif-14862657

[unkempt tangle]

you was tho

[exotic oracle]

i'm loading it rn
eyo what're ur pronouns?

[quaint notch]

you can call me anything you want kid

[exotic oracle]

okay [redacted]

[unkempt tangle]

dick/hole

[quaint notch]

i share my pronouns with people that matter to me

[exotic oracle]

okay that's slay

[slender kiln]

Sheesh it's gotten nasty in here

[unkempt tangle]

gotten?

[exotic oracle]

it took like 20 minutes of them poking me tbf

okie dokie imma go smokie

[quaint notch]

lol deleting posts

[zinc plaza]

Its hard to play weapons that dont carry you, I guess. Your only games you do good are with warbow or pre-nerf highland sword.

[exotic oracle]

be nice ya'll or i'll climb through ur window and throw rocks at u

[unkempt tangle]

you miss these two fucks giving me shit earlier while pretending everything they said wasn't an insult just "truth" lmao

[quaint notch]

put it back up- lets be true to who you are

[exotic oracle]

it was rude and i shouldn't have said it <3

[quaint notch]

so deleting it isnt manipulating appearances then?

[boreal owl]

https://tenor.com/view/elves-mirkwood-army-archers-battle-gif-16495755

[slender kiln]

That was pretty standard archer thread shenanigans

[exotic oracle]

nah, i just said smth i shouldn't have and got rid of it
i wear my personality on my sleeve hun

[quaint notch]

your sleeve looks covered in snot

[unkempt tangle]

they can never be wrong so they don't understand

[boreal owl]

Anyone wanna play Chiv when I get home

[zinc plaza]

I've fought you, its hilarious watching you gamble and scramble with the cudgel anytime youre at risk. You always boast about how good you are yet you run from every engagement. Curious.

[exotic oracle]

idk what that means but it feels rude lol

[unkempt tangle]

no, why, wtf is wrong with you?

[boreal owl]

Oh boy here comes the content creator

[exotic oracle]

fight fight fight fight

[zinc plaza]

He refuses.

He would never set foot in a duel server.

[boreal owl]

Content creator on his way to ruin the thread

[slender kiln]

Rapier keeper vs warbow ziggy

[exotic oracle]

@dull cliff eyo you won't fight ziggy??

[zinc plaza]

Hell yeah

[unkempt tangle]

I mean he clearly doesn't understand how melee mechanics work, so it's not surprising

[boreal owl]

Begone. You’re not worthy of my attention, squire!