Proposed Stab Change Discussion (2.9)

[raw ember]

With this change, basically every teammate has to be seen as a solid rectangle that can't be penetrated instead of, well, a digital human that you can thrust around

[coarse flume]

That was already the case with overhead and slash

[raw ember]

Which hits a much bigger area and should mostly be used when no one is in front of you

[coarse flume]

So you don’t want this change because the netcode is bad?

[raw ember]

No, cause ist usage is in much different situations

These two can't really be compared to begin with. Again, a overhead slash literally should not be used when a teammate is in front of you with a few exceptions depending on situation and weapon ofc. With a spear thrust you can, or at least should be able, to place the thrust around a teammate to use the length and small size (in diameter). Its a much smaller area of effect.

[coarse flume]

Yes so why not stab around your teammates instead of through them

[raw ember]

You should but you can't with this change. At least not without basically standing completely next to them due to a huge hitbox completely blocking you off.

[coarse flume]

Cause that would make sense

[surreal socket]

The change would force players to use good practices like positioning and good aim around teammates. Stabbing through teammates right now is just a crutch that lots of people use in lieu of engaging in best practices. Team damage should have the natural punish of hitstop even if its not directly your fault. Its the most balanced approach to team damage. Letting stabs magically avoid the punish makes no sense.

[coarse flume]

Is stabbing through teammates a necessity to the combat system or can people adjust and learn to drag stabs or move to the left or right instead

Cause rn all I’m hearing is newer players will struggle but again try are new and will learn

[raw ember]

Again, you won't be able to base your attacks around what you see but have to expext a much bigger hitbox around your teammate as what you see. If you think thats good design, hey, you do you. Its your opinion, I have a different one.

[coarse flume]

Sure but there isn’t that many situations where you’re behind so many teammates that you cannot attack without doing team damage, and if that’s the case then go somewhere else

[raw ember]

You can't precisely aim around your teammated, you have to aim much further around them then what you see, this could be compensated with reducing the penality area of the hitbox.

[coarse flume]

I’ve never ran into that issue at all

[raw ember]

Yeah no shit

Cause the change is not implemented yet

[coarse flume]

I agree the parry box widening wasn’t a good idea

But this change is not going to make things worse than better

You’re thinking of a single scenario of like galencourt church doors

[raw ember]

Lets just agree to disagree, cause I feel like this discussion turns into circles

[coarse flume]

Maybe so

[raw ember]

Especially considering you bringing up points that I literally explained already

[coarse flume]

I can say the same

[raw ember]

I mean, actually literally: Thats why I think, while it would obviously improve the dogpilling situation where everyone just stabs through their team.
You bring up and try to argue a point that I already explained that I agree on, dogpilling fights would 100% improve with this change. That never was a point from me, so its dumb to try to bring up this point.

[ornate steeple]

Sounds like the issue is you

[final jungle]

@raw ember thank you for bringing a real opinion on a negative outcome due to this change

[mossy hedge]

He literally said he thinks they should make the change, as long as they do it properly

And don't just make team damage = hitstop

I think that is what everyone is asking for. Slashes and overheads only hitstop on teammates as well if they hit center mass but as of right now I can stab through my teammates ribcage to hit someone behind them which doesn't make much sense and doesn't line up with the rest of the combat system

[final jungle]

@mossy hedge again some people should reread the thread

[coarse flume]

Yeah kc reread every message sent

Then come back to Royal

[final jungle]

@coarse flume you too buddy

[coarse flume]

don’t have to pipsqueak.

[mossy hedge]

I have no idea who that is but I'm all set

[final jungle]

ok bet

[coarse flume]

He’s ready Royal

[final jungle]

im starting from the top

[mossy hedge]

I'm pretty sure he's a spear player

[final jungle]

100

[coarse flume]

Yes

[mossy hedge]

Crazy how that adds up

[real mortar]

Kc and dvs are known trolls in this thread, thinking that only their opinion matters when they barely have any hours in a stab weapon. Its funny how they try to make fun of you whenever you come up with a good argument.

Ever notice how kc and dvs always back each other up and speak at the same time? Either you're an alt or you message each other

[coarse flume]

Fax 📠

[mossy hedge]

On no we've awoken the beast

[coarse flume]

I Hope tom@banner bans you from the game

Zzz

[real mortar]

Not possible as I've not broken any rules.

[coarse flume]

you’re just the goat 🐐

Know it all, play in every comp event

goat shi Fr…

[mossy hedge]

I never said only our opinion matters

I pointed out an almost perfect positive correlation between spear mains and not liking the proposed change

[coarse flume]

Pause

[real mortar]

That came out wrong

[coarse flume]

And also when I asked him why it’s bad he literally never gave a genuine reason

Trolling aside

[real mortar]

I gave you plenty of answers

[mossy hedge]

Also my opinion is that spear is the lowest skill weapon in the game. I am a very good spear player but no I'm not worried about it getting slightly nerfed by this change

[real mortar]

Whats your lvl and kd with spear

[mossy hedge]

What do you mean kd

Nothing tracks KD with an individual weapon

[real mortar]

Kill death ratio

Yes it does

[mossy hedge]

No it doesn't that feature is broken and has been broken since launch

[real mortar]

Oh its broken all of a sudden huh

[mossy hedge]

Do you seriously not know that

[final jungle]

it does @mossy hedge my k/d was cleared and fixed

[surreal socket]

No, mid-tier in terms of skill. Dane axe, 1h blunts are way lower skill

[mossy hedge]

Wait really when did they fix lol

[real mortar]

Guys the kd is broken i guess kc wins the discussion

[final jungle]

but k/d doesnt matter tbh

[mossy hedge]

In duels maybe but in teamfighting you can topfrag better than dane by only stabbing

Dane is also low skill floor I agree but that's fine

[final jungle]

@mossy hedge all you can do is stab and overhead

[surreal socket]

If youre good at spacing and have good self awareness ya. Dane and 1h blunts can literally hold W and hit the big mouse button

[mossy hedge]

I'll have to go check scorecard, my spear is like lvl 80 or something

[real mortar]

Its funny, everytime someone says the spear is easy to use in TO i always tell them, "alright go ahead use it the next match" they agree and barely get in the top 15 of the leaderboard

[mossy hedge]

My halberd is higher I like halbert

[real mortar]

Lvl 80????

[mossy hedge]

Probably talking to the wrong person about that

[real mortar]

Aint no way youre lvl 80 and making claims that the stab should be nerfed

[mossy hedge]

I am lvl 813

[real mortar]

And?

[mossy hedge]

I use all of the weapons my highest is lvl 110

Or something

[real mortar]

Im lvl 400 with spear lvl 395

[mossy hedge]

I am likely one of the broadest playtime players you'll talk to I literally use every weapon

So yes I think someone who's only used spear may have a limited scope about how the game works

Thanks for further proving I am correct by pointing out you only use one weapon

[real mortar]

You haven't fully focused on one weapon how can you know anything about the stab change and what kind of effect it has. Youre looking at this through your own mind you gotta learn and see how it will go with people who only relies on one attack

Why do i have to change my ways for you?

[last silo]

Keeper but as a spear main?

[sage tartan]

ALERT! DO NO ENGAGE THE ZZZ! ALERT!

[final jungle]

@mossy hedge SPEAR PLAYERS ARE NOT WORTHY ENOUGH TO BE IN THIS DISCUSSION

[real mortar]

Just because you dont like it it has to be changed, meanwhile we got a dane axe that has a overhead accel faster than a 1h sword lmao

[surreal socket]

Arnt both points of view valid ?

[mossy hedge]

I don't think anyone's opinion should be disregarded but I think it's important to acknowledge where people's biases come from

When making decisions

[final jungle]

I love how the only ones arguing against this change are literally spear mains (obviously not biased.)

@mossy hedge

[real mortar]

Not really, he can still adapt as he has other attacks in his arsenal. People who rely on stab has no other ways. Cmon now we acting like this game has choke point after choke point. This change is extremely dumb and the focus should be elsewhere not here.

Theres like 1 or 2 chokepoints each map that last a few mins. We really gonna remove the feature for those few minutes? Dont make me laugh

[surreal socket]

Im excited for the change. The attacks are nearly impossible to read most the time. The game is very intiitive. A spear ghosting through some dudes chest into your face is not intuitive 🤷‍♂️

[mossy hedge]

Okay

So what's your point royal

[real mortar]

And for those saying 'but.. but what about stabbing through teammates when im in a 1vx' heres a newsflash buddy, youre not gonna survive the 1vx regardless, the stabbing through teammates speeds it up. Thats the only difference.

[surreal socket]

Speak for yourself 😂

[mossy hedge]

If you play a bit more you might get a bit better at 1vX, which is actually super attainable in this game

[surreal socket]

I survive insane 1v4s constantly

[real mortar]

Elbow, out of the 20 times youre in a 1vx you survive 2 times at most cmon now.

[surreal socket]

Of course youre not going to survive 1vX with a spear, but very doable with many weapons

[real mortar]

This goes for all of you btw

[surreal socket]

That is definitely your spear bias talking

[real mortar]

Spear bias? What bias elbow? Im telling you how it is, truth sucks i know welcome to politics.

[mossy hedge]

You actually can really well but you have to keep them in front of you

[real mortar]

Guess that shows the difference in quality between EU and US

[mossy hedge]

Because of turncap. So then spear is mostly about footwork in 1vx the underhand stab riposte will block any attack before it hits and land a lot of free damage

[surreal socket]

Im telling you 90% of the time i play i purposfully look for crazy 1vX and win them a lot

[real mortar]

You need to send me recent videos to back that up

[surreal socket]

Unreadable spear attacks take the choice out of the players hands entirely, and isnt in the spirit of the game

[real mortar]

And who gets to decide that

[surreal socket]

"You were gonna die anyway" is such a horrible argument 🤣

[real mortar]

Because you are

[surreal socket]

Common sense ? Is intuitive combat and reigning in of mechanical exploits not what Chiv 2 strives for?

[real mortar]

Why is it mechanical exploits if it has been there since the start of chivalry 2. Listen, id give you the benefit of the doubt if they added it in like a year ago or something like that but thats not the case. This has been a feature since the start, its there for a reason, it has a purpose and you know damn well what that it is. Im tired of going into circles the entire time, this discussion is over and the change will NOT happen, if it does then expect the playerbase to leave, heard mordhau has a console release now. Developers should make the right choice here.

[mossy hedge]

Temper tantrum

[real mortar]

Excuse me?

[final jungle]

Na toxicity

uwu

[mossy hedge]

Threatening to quit because you don't like a proposed change

Guess what mordhau has, hitstop on stabbing teammates

[real mortar]

BECAUSE MOONMOON NEVER DISCUSSED IT WITH US FIRST

[mossy hedge]

Who is us

[real mortar]

The people who main spears, longswords and even halberds

[mossy hedge]

There's over 1000 comments in this thread, I thought this was the discussion

I main halberd

[surreal socket]

So exploits should never be fixed ? All your arguments are majorly flawed my guy

[mossy hedge]

I discussed it with moonmoon I think we're on the same page now

[real mortar]

First you mained spear, then it was longsword, now its halberd. Think ive had just about enough of your false claims and blatant trolling/jokes/insults

[mossy hedge]

You know it's funny I never actually said any of those but it is true

I was a longsword main for 200 levels and I mained spear in comp for a bit. Now I main halberd

[surreal socket]

You dont need 400 levels of a weapon to have an opinion.... youd be like 1 of 3 people allowed to talk 🙄

[real mortar]

Yea alright, make sure to remove the messages about which weapons you main buddy

[mossy hedge]

200 character levels not longsword levels my longsword is only like 90

[mossy hedge]

Can you find them for me

[real mortar]

And thats more than enough

[real mortar]

I doubt you have any weapon thats above lvl 100

[coarse flume]

i Main halberd in comp LTS and play messer a lot, you keep saying moon moon didn’t check in with “us” which would indicate you believe your opinion holds more weight

Ok honestly I’m just gonna unfollow this lol

This guy is insane

[mossy hedge]

Are you not having fun discussing potential weapon changes

[real mortar]

Where have i ever said that my opinion holds more weight

[coarse flume]

You said moon moon didnt check in with “us” being spear players… therefore you think spear players need some special attention as if this is a nerf to spear. It’s not a nerf. It’s a combat change

[real mortar]

Why in godsname should i have fun when im surrounded by people that constantly insult me

[mossy hedge]

Noone has insulted you I just said you were a spear main and you took that as an insult

[coarse flume]

I bet your spear is lvl 5

[mossy hedge]

Not my fault you don't like spear players

[real mortar]

One character has around lvl 230 spear and the other is 395, both 2h spear

Steam and ps5

[coarse flume]

Prove it

You probably play heavy mace …

[final jungle]

@real mortar I believe what he's saying is that this change will hurt console spear mains

[coarse flume]

Sweaty….

HERE WE GO AGAIN WITH CONSOLE SPEAR MAINS!!

[real mortar]

Heavy mace? Id rather play executioner axe

[coarse flume]

so you’re a exe axe main, got it

[real mortar]

Its not easy to aim with sticks

[coarse flume]

I remember teaching you back in the day actually

[real mortar]

We are miles apart, you live in us and i live in eu

[coarse flume]

I don’t live in us

[real mortar]

Sure buddy

[coarse flume]

lol

🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦

[real mortar]

Literally the same

[coarse flume]

Yeah you asked me how to use 2h spear and I showed you

It was on wardenglade

[mossy hedge]

I know a single console spear main and he is technically the best player in the game

As he got the highest takedown and kill record ever in TO

[coarse flume]

Jc?

[mossy hedge]

Clearly 2h spear console players have a tough time aiming!

[final jungle]

LOOK AT THAT LOBBY

HOLY COW DELETE THAT

[mossy hedge]

Yeah it was from ps+ release haha

[real mortar]

Ah yes he must have had a really tough time playing against those noobs while also using the catapult in the final phase

[mossy hedge]

Only noobs

[coarse flume]

lobby might’ve been ass but bro could aim for the noobs

[real mortar]

Best console spear player guys

Jesus we hit it low today

[mossy hedge]

He technically is unless you can match him

[coarse flume]

Your argument is that console won’t be able to aim

Clearly they can

[real mortar]

So you base that on skill?

[coarse flume]

It only effects newer players

Who will learn to aim

[surreal socket]

Im a polehammer supremacist. I have a great opinion on all matter of swing, stabs, and even overheads

[real mortar]

Technically hes better than wildcard mask? Man you really have shit takes

Jesus christ man

What are we even talking about lmao

[coarse flume]

Bro what

Is wildcard mask the secret goat or something

[real mortar]

Bro gets a few kills with cata on some noobs and hes the best spear main ever guys

Guess that wraps up the discussion huh?

Good lord

[mossy hedge]

Wait is wildcard mask the best spear player in your head

[coarse flume]

lol

[mossy hedge]

Also he isn't console

[coarse flume]

That’s actually the most absurd thing ever

[real mortar]

One of the best yes

[coarse flume]

Nah he’s pc

[mossy hedge]

Oh

I see

Wildcard is a great guy and he certainly makes spear work well in duels to a degree

[coarse flume]

There’s 0 possibility this guy isn’t trolling though

[mossy hedge]

He said all of his hours are in duels to me the other day though

[mossy hedge]

It's actually just wildcard on an alt

That says playstation/eu

[real mortar]

Ive read enough.

[coarse flume]

lol

i don’t even believe these people play the game

[mossy hedge]

I think he just plays EU pubs

[sage tartan]

wait you're actually engaging zZz? That's your own fault tbh

[boreal thistle]

[mossy hedge]

Its fun to engage in highly intellectual discourse on the internet with a fellow scholar

[lethal pulsar]

none of these people actually play the game silly, they play spear.

[surreal pagoda]

stab dn

[lethal pulsar]

never forget the kwazi spear arc

[surreal pagoda]

greatest arc in history

[ornate steeple]

Bro imagine maining a weapon

[shell smelt]

Me with 600 hours and 98% longsword

[ancient wing]

Bro reported me to the mods

What a joke

[final jungle]

@ancient wing who?

@ancient wing cares

[ornate steeple]

I'm gonna report you to the mods

[earnest ivy]

Typical cleave spammer opinion. I main 1h spear and I'm all for the change.

[ornate steeple]

All I hear a skill issue

My teammates are there to absorb the enemy’s swings

I built them for that purpose

[earnest ivy]

Mine are there to beat me in the back of the head and give the enemy free parry windows. We are not the same

[ornate steeple]

Then I got news for you: you’re my meat shield.

[earnest ivy]

Well stop giving the enemy EZ parries so I can just stab them to death and we both win

Just team kill me after ok

[warm wing]

You know you don't have to put hundreds of hours into a weapon to figure out how to use it right? Like by the time you're level 50 on any given weapon you should more or less know how it works. Someone with level 395 spear and someone with level 90 spear are equally valid in the discussion, and KC probably knows a lot more about the game as a whole due to him not tunneling into only one weapon. Also the argument of "it's been around since launch, it's a feature" is clearly untrue seeing as this thread exists.

Personally I think these are good changes. The argument of having to aim around hitboxes now with stab is something you already have to do to begin with when it comes to slash and overhead, it won't suddenly make stabs useless. You'll just need to actually use proper positioning. Honestly the less team damage is incentivized the better, I shouldn't be in a choke point at one shot health when an enemy hasn't even hit me yet because a polearm is using me as a riot shield.

That's my two cents

[twin venture]

Yeah, aiming around hitboxes. That brings us to another broken fix, they made parry hitboxes so big that makes people block from behind.
Im up for stab change only if they revert the parry hitbox.

[warm wing]

Yeah it was a stupid change to begin with, but that's also a different discussion.

There's no point in trying to put "if/then" arguments to try and lump other changes in.

One improvement at a time

[low barn]

i agree with less incentives to stab through teammates.

i think though this change would undisputably change the game in TO for better or for worse so i hope TB would be prepared for the shit storm one way or another

[radiant sundial]

don’t fix anything leave it how it is

[ornate steeple]

@alpine barn what do you think

[alpine barn]

Yeah.

[ornate steeple]

Awesome thanks

[barren ermine]

Never understood whats wrong with this change. You would think players would know not to actively hit their teammates

[undone kraken]

If they actually got punished for team damage they would've known, and if they weren't hard wired to only throw slash attacks instead of overheads and stabs.

[winged sapphire]

honestly idgaf I'll still get hit by teammates anyway

[sage tartan]

Now it just won't be a viable strat

[real mortar]

Its too soon to change it now

They first need to revert parry

[undone kraken]

I don’t really think it’s a parry problem

More of a game problem with the servers

[sage tartan]

Yeah it's a symptom of hitting through people.

[real mortar]

Sure buddy, people being able to block incoming attacks from their backs is not a problem

[ornate steeple]

What do you expect from a Mrdhau Role*layer

[low barn]

maybe a more active system of -25 points for hitting teammates

mitagates the points but people keep kills and takedowns

maybe not even have it count for a takedown or a kill

lol someone made a puking reaction to my suggestion

i think it is worthwhile to think about it, it would indeed be a detriment for TO to 90% of the pub players

[real mortar]

Are you insane

[low barn]

good discussion

[real mortar]

I first wanna know, are you insane or are you trolling rn

And what does it have to do with stab change

[low barn]

yes?

it woudl de-incentivize stabbing through teammates potentially

or make it roughly neutral perhaps

just a thought.

[mossy hedge]

Bro just make team damage reflect

Ez

[final jungle]

@mossy hedge now you must be trollin

[mossy hedge]

Yeah a little

[mossy hedge]

I think once you hit that limit where it kicks you, if team damage just reflects instead of insta kicking you it might be better though

Gives you a lot of opportunity to learn not to attack teammates rather than no punishment into insta boot

Would probably improve the team damage situation overall and help the player base get better

[final jungle]

@mossy hedge or it would hurt console peasants and new players. But I'm sure we could argue about that all day.😘

[mossy hedge]

?

Explain how team damage reflection is worse than literally being kicked from the server

[final jungle]

@mossy hedge I will msg this thread again when I'm not working

Wait for the @

[surreal socket]

Because you never get kicked unless youre maximum stupid, and team reflection is highly impactful and constant ? So no impact vs high impact.. pretty obvious

[earnest ivy]

Rumor has it this change is a comin

[ornate steeple]

I hear trouble coming

[winged sapphire]

I have trouble cuming

[real mortar]

They cant fucking do that

Bro i literally almost choked on my food just now reading this

Wtf is going on moonmoon? Don't tell me its gonna go through?

[ornate steeple]

Cope

[warm wing]

I second that

Cope

[boreal thistle]

They CANNOT let this change go through, inshallah..
Pray with me, habib 🙏

[placid orbit]

All they do is nerfing melee weapons and buffing archer class, they hate people, they just want newcomers to have easy kills and buy the game.
Just play something else, me and everyone on my servers already started to look for another common game.

[ornate steeple]

Try Star Trek Online

[barren ermine]

Archers were buffed? When?

[mossy hedge]

@jade gorge

you shouldnt be able to attack directly through a teammate... it negates the skill of using footwork to get one enemy behind the other

[mossy hedge]

can you not read

i said in lieu of being kicked, once you hit that threshhold it starts to reflect

[placid orbit]

almost at every update

[ornate steeple]

Source?

[jade gorge]

we were laughing our asses off when that happened

[mossy hedge]

so rather than 0-100 progression on punishment, (no punishment, then kicked) it starts to reflect damage to help people learn not to do team damage

[jade gorge]

he thought i was your team's spear so blocked

[mossy hedge]

reeeeeeee

[sage tartan]

Listen, I despise archers, instead of coffee I spit on a photo of an archer to wake me up every morning, but archers have not been buffed in a long time, maybe ever.

[placid orbit]

How do you call making vanguard super vulnerable to archer and get 133 dmg for a headshot, how do you call gamepad aim-assist + homing arrow? How do you call bending all rules to make them shine like setting the knock down limit to 25 just for them ?
How do you call giving them better side weapons ?
How do you call defacing the queue menu with their infamous volley mode noone wants?
It really looks like someoone at TB love archers and don't give a shit about what most players wants to see in the game.
It sounds like how the major movie productions flopped recently.

[sage tartan]

were the first two added? Same with side weapons. If they have been that that counts as a buff. Though the only good archer side weapon is axe on xbow and xbow got nerfed pretty hard (rightly). Takedown change buffs a LOT of weapons. Notably faster long weapons, swords, the glaive.

Volley mode is an affront to society and I agree on that.

[ornate steeple]

Source?

[ornate steeple]

Holy shit Badger actually says something sensible

[placid orbit]

All in all it's like they want to bend the game to a class that has no room in this game and annoy most players.
And yet they don't make threads to ask us if we want this or if we like archers, they just close all topics becoming popular that asks for a no-archer mode or to nerf some OP perks of this class.

[warm wing]

the takedown threshold was done more to help with the glaive, the secondaries they have are all balanced, vanguard already has low HP because of the speed so they were already getting two shotted by everything else anyway.

[warm wing]

this is untrue, there's literally a thread up right now talking about people's thoughts on the class

I get hating archers, personally I think they ruin the fun for people, but a lot of this just seems like cope no offense

also yeah source for the 133 headshot damage number?

[placid orbit]

Hasn't it been closed already? I think it has.
The reasons where because someone asked something iff topic, so the modo closed all the thread.
They always do that for that specific topic.

[placid orbit]

I don't play a game to have to over-cope all the time, it's just wasting time, this is ridiculous

[placid orbit]

Just get hit in the head by a warbow.

The damages are ridiculous

Also crossbow about 109 dmg quite often

[magic zodiac]

Crossbow does 78 to vanguard, 105 to footman, 117 to knight, and instakills archer.

[placid orbit]

This thread ?

I'll stop it, they banned me last time I brought up facts in another threads.

[last prairie]

133 is javelin

[boreal thistle]

Lol that was keeper's thread, there are 2 other archer threads discussing balance still open

[placid orbit]

And warbow on some classes

[last prairie]

war bow doesn't have modifiers except for against archer and isn't relevant to this thread really.

[placid orbit]

Yes that's why I said stop discussing it.
The link was that they care about very little issues when others are killing our interest in the game

[ornate steeple]

Jeb coping

[warm wing]

no

[ornate steeple]

heheheheh

[ornate steeple]

It's a very civil discussion

[placid orbit]

Just a matter of time

[final jungle]

Classic @ornate steeple derailing the thread

[ornate steeple]

Heheheh

I think everyone's caught on now that I'm a creep and a weirdo

[final jungle]

@ornate steeple knew from day one but I'm not hatin

[ornate steeple]

It's ok its alright

[magic zodiac]

Entire thread here has been coping about a nerf to mechanic abuse, I can't imagine if they nerfed some other dumb melee shit how the reaction would be.

[final jungle]

@magic zodiac re read the thread some really good points in here ty

[prisma nest]

gonna just say it again, a prop stab "exploit" fix would be 100% team damage.

[last prairie]

I think I mention it in the thread where I was suggesting this as the preferred option, but then note that torn banner won't do it because enough pub players engage with the game in a manner which is below room temperature up top so hitstop is at least a bare minimum 😂

[final jungle]

@last prairie low ball comment buddy. you know the special kids are playing with sticks aka controllers

[mossy hedge]

That would hurt the experience of the people who get team stabbed and not change the experience of the people doing the team stabbing

All and all a terrible idea

We should be able to deincentivise attacking teammates without making the game less fun (100% team damage meaning way more team kills)

[last prairie]

100% team damage would change the experience of people doing team stabbing by getting them killed when that player comes back until people eventually learn to respect space, but it'd be an extremely rough transition. Difficult like when we were doing teamfighting practice on duel servers lol

[mossy hedge]

That would just increase overall salt and toxicity

Which i don't think is torn banners goal

[real mortar]

Glad ur not a developer

[cloud cave]

Honestly no matter what change they do, its gonna make things harder for players even though they need to stop the players from hitting through teammates to get kills. Like if you make your swings to stop on hitting a team mate like hitting a wall, you will get teammates that might get you killed by preventing you to do a counter or prevent you from getting a kill. If you make it 100% team damage you will still get the same result but this time your killing your teammates more in the process and you have a higher probability of getting kicked in matches. You reflect the damage back you get killed by your teammates who jump in front of you. Its really just more on which change benefits more out of the negative aspect. Also with any of these changes you know trolls would take full advantage on ruining their teammates game play and possibly getting them kicked.

[jade willow]

should've been this way from the start, stabbing through teammates is just ridiculous and shouldn't be rewarded

[real mortar]

I just got 96 woodcutting

[ornate steeple]

Elder Tree

[prisma nest]

This is an endless baby-sitting hole. We should expect users to LEARN play game properly, not indulge their ideocracy. This is not kindergardens. next is what? nerf team damage of cataplut and ballista? let them bounce back when they hit same team? lol this is getting "fun" and "less toxic"

[last prairie]

we don't expect people to learn to play properly. That's what the dane axe is for.

[shell smelt]

If you want to punish people playing the game improperly what better way than to make their attacks ineffective when they are doing it "wrong"?

[nova gate]

Hiya, so just want to give an early heads up on this. This proposed change to all weapons will be in during the Beta test of 2.9, so those on EGS, please give it a try 🙏

We will have further notes to come.

[coral ginkgo]

I am literally awaiting the update

Is it available now?

[nova gate]

Not yet, we'll do official announcements on the status of it

[coral ginkgo]

I put off playing the game until parrybox width was sensibly halved but now stab change also seems necessary

[nova gate]

That'll also be in the playtest

[real mortar]

*Stabs

*Stabs for all weapons now thwack when hitting teammates

This is only for the test right? Not actually going through with this change?

Surely not?

[nova gate]

I would encourage you to play the Beta if you have the game on EGS

[real mortar]

Got it on steam..

[sage tartan]

All three egs users are elated

[coarse flume]

Easy claps zzz

I made a call to the devs, told them to make it happen

[real mortar]

https://archuser.de/the-rock.gif

[lament bone]

Don't know if these changes should apply to rapier. Not like it needed a nerf.

[ornate steeple]

Gif

[coarse flume]

This ain’t a weapon nerf, it’s a combat change. It effects all weapons.

[earnest ivy]

patch notes say heavy stabs do NOT thwack still. Wasn't that one of the main issues....

Like stab abusers are almost always heavy stabbing through

[boreal thistle]

Now you're incentivized to do even more team dmg to get that stab through, it's perfect 😎

[earnest ivy]

Sorry default footman, I'm afraid TB has made it clear you are not long for this world, team mate or not

[shell smelt]

I love the opening question, all the debate with no dev input, then the change wasn't even what was proposed. Just things

[nova gate]

No, we have the change in and are aware that heavy stabs circumvent this, and have the issue logged for fixing. In time of 2.9? No, because dev release reasons that can't be shared. We would rather inform you all instead of being "surprise! an issue that makes the change moot"

[warm wing]

Why is it that slashing with a sheild is faster then stabbing with both hands on the weapon this makes no snese to me the guy stabbing should be faster and hit first.

[ornate steeple]

Don't worry, I'll fix it

[prisma nest]

sooooo, lets make all team damage "ineffective" then shall we? since we shouldn't be causing team damage right? how about that team damage by cataplut, ballista, fire bombs? no. punishing ideocracy should not be achieved by changing game mech

[shell smelt]

This is about protecting the player being stabbed through, and the enemy from an unreadable attack, not really about punishing the person abusing it.

[final jungle]

Guess I'll be heavy stabbin all of you then. uwu

Console peasants shield this community again.

[lethal pulsar]

stabbing through teammates is a stupid mechanic that most of the people in this thread didn't even know about till this was proposed by the devs. It's a crutch mechanic that allows you to attack an enemy without the enemy being able to see or read that attack. Do you need this mechanic that bad to pad your stats in a casual TO lobby?

[final jungle]

@nova gate absolutely a good change ty tornbanner for playing the middle ground. Also please buff spear turn cap ty.

[ornate steeple]

Yeah and buff throwing axes let those stab through teamates

[final jungle]

@lethal pulsar randy I will be heavy stabbing you all day buddy

[lethal pulsar]

enjoy it while it last

[prisma nest]

there shall not be such protection. it made no sense. soooI request cataplut protection. why? it go through everyone's body in one shot lol maybe hey, even stop the stone mid air and let it not "explode" because there are teammates around that catapult dmg radious, even just 1?

https://tenor.com/view/shake-head-angry-annoyed-irritated-smh-gif-15320109

[final jungle]

@lethal pulsar see you in 2 years for stab change 2.0

uwu

[lethal pulsar]

"we have the change in and are aware that heavy stabs circumvent this, and have the issue logged for fixing."

[shell smelt]

You're arguing stupid strawmen

[final jungle]

I'm pumped to see this change go live brother @lethal pulsar 🙏

[prisma nest]

oh I am glad u aware of term "strawmen" so your changing from QUOTE "to punish people playing the game improperly what better way than to make their attacks ineffective when they are doing it "wrong" to QUOTE "This is about protecting the player being stabbed through" is not? 👏 bravo

[lethal pulsar]

aren't we all?

[shell smelt]

Fair. My excuse is I'm mobile and generally in support of this change anyway. Nobody has been talking about catapults but you afaik.

[ornate steeple]

Hey man you're kinda silly

[sage tartan]

yo, new keeper just dropped

[ornate steeple]

Holy shit your right

[rustic grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/charlie-woooo-yeah-baby-gif-24480925

[ornate steeple]

@prisma nest Thoughts on archers?

[last prairie]

it's understandable in the case that there are specific complications as to additionally thwacking heavies without breaking the game. A positive change is a positive change, and not being able to just driveby light is at least a start even if it's imperfect.

[final jungle]

@last prairie this change also may break spear gamplay on console in choke points.

I hope that it doesn't become anti fun for the console peasants.

I believe the heavy stabs not twacking is a good middle ground for everyone.

[prisma nest]

the staleness of the map itself gross me out. maybe I will try the all hateful archer next test.

[prisma nest]

nobody dare to say I am smart, I kinda handsome though 😙

[final jungle]

@last prairie I read that you said console players where a majority of our player base in the other thread. I know that you can see that this change could negatively effect them.

[prisma nest]

what keeper?

[sage tartan]

[prisma nest]

https://tenor.com/view/door-hide-close-bye-cat-gif-22820275

but serious, what keeper

[boreal thistle]

Keeper is a legend in the chiv 2 discord that was beloved and cherished by everyone until he was unfortunately and unjustly banned...

It's a great honor to be compared to him 👍

[cloud cave]

lol not this again

[barren ermine]

May his soul rest in piece. God Bless

[low barn]

NGL gonna be sad that they are going to fix the "heavy" stab part. i think it should just be the same as other swing hit weapons, otherwise i wonder if people will start swinging heavies through teammates

[sage tartan]

i think it should just be the same as other swing hit weapons
slash and overhead heavies don't go through team mates either

[low barn]

are you suggesting i've been needlessly murderin my own teammates?

i am literally heavy slashing through teammates

and getting kills... it does hitstop if there is no enemy though

Maybe its because sometimes teammates block. hm

[low barn]

in that case sure i agree with this change

[last prairie]

I think it's about their spacing, as there seems to be some leeway when hitting teammates even with lights under the right circumstances

it's just that stabs are a problem if they have that sort of leeway generally and in the test server I was basically only precluded from doing things it'd be genuinely disgusting to be able to do

[final jungle]

Gotta use better foot work guys

[final jungle]

@last prairie honestly any attack that hits a friendly player should hit stop

@nova gate many high level players utilize the lack of hit stop with heavy slashes to gain an unfair advantage. @forest horizon @weak glade are great examples of this and have been using this nasty technique to absolutely destroy casual to player. When will this exploit be fixed?

[surreal socket]

Im still not exactly sure what causes certain attacks to avoid hitstops but it seems very minor

[final jungle]

@surreal socket it's been abused for a soil 2 years by many high level players. maybe a dev could explain why some attacks hit stop and others cleave straight through the backs of you teammates

[prisma nest]

#babysitting

[final jungle]

#fairgameplay

@prisma nest if this is going to be fair it has to effect everyone equally.

[surreal socket]

It does effect everyone equally. My guess is tips of the swings or end of release.

[final jungle]

@surreal socket definitely doesn't effect all swings ATM so it should hit stop 100% of the time is my point.

We shouldn't be rewarding team damage

Everyone should use proper foot work

We should have an equal playing field and no favoritism between stab and slash weapons.

I've said my concerns regarding the stab change and will hold my peace.

Ty all for your opinions and counter arguments against mine. I greatly appreciate your prospective.

[lethal pulsar]

attacks can cleave through anything even buildings if they cleave while in the attacks release faze

@final jungle

[surreal socket]

So if they hit an enemy first they cleave everything ?

[lethal pulsar]

no your weapon can cleave through any structure in the release phase of the attack but after that if your weapon is still hitting a structure or a teammate it stops

[sage tartan]

That's definitely not true. But some things you swing through, others you don't, you can't really judge it 100% of the time. Well, unless you memorize every objects collisions.

[surreal socket]

I feel like the tip of the tracer is different, but I may be wrong

[last prairie]

yes

I completely agree

[lethal pulsar]

for reference on TG you can slash through the median but only if your weapon passes through the median during the release phase of your attack

[final jungle]

@lethal pulsar this mechanic is still being abused in all teirs of gameplay. This should not be a combat change for thee but not for me.

If your weapon hits a building or player it should hit stop. Realism

Especially if you do team damage at any point in your swing phase.

@surreal socket I believe if you hit an enemy first you could be allowed to cleave through teammates. as we aren't rewarding team damage. Including stabs.

[last prairie]

team damage means you're in the active hitbox/tracers portion of release and not the windup. There's an initial portion of a swing which is effectively part of windup and has nothing which would cause damage or collide active, meaning that the weapon, well, doesn't collide.

[surreal socket]

The release phase is when your swing is active, so what do you mean exactly ?

[final jungle]

That would be a non issue I'm addressing the fact that I've seen many high level to players abuse cleaving through teammates with slash weapons.

[surreal socket]

Even if that is the case, any sort of position you'd have where you were being attacked through your opponents teammates would be much more readable, as you could actually see them. If you are body hugging your teammate it will not work.

[final jungle]

@surreal socket if you body hug your teammates your heavy slashes will hit stop this will help teach new players proper position

[surreal socket]

They already do..

[lethal pulsar]

meant windup

[final jungle]

@surreal socket ?

[sonic root]

No more stab your teammates kidneys to get a headshot while crouching with a spear

[surreal socket]

The majority of swings will hitstop on teammates. There seems to be some very situations where one will pass through. My best working theory is this works with the tips of swings for quality of life purposes. Large weapons would feel really clunky without it, its a QoL change that would be hard to use to gain an advantage on purpose.

[final jungle]

@surreal socket great examples of this forbidden technique would be @weak glade @forest horizon

[final jungle]

I would argue that the original stab was the way it was for QoL, but due to people abusing it that had to change.

It make no sense for a slash to pass through a teammates back and into someone's face.

That why you have the option of using an over head.

[final jungle]

Team cleave must be stopped.

[surreal socket]

?? Source

[final jungle]

@surreal socket are you asking for me to provide source of their gameplay? We all know and it's be said by @sunder @earnest ivy that you can team cleave with slashes.

@surreal socket you're the first person that has said that this isn't a tech that exists.

[surreal socket]

Youre misrepresenting what im saying and misrepresenting the scope of the mechanic by simply saying "you can team cleave with slashes". No one can even explain the situation it actually works in, its that rare. Much less of an issue than simply using your teammate as a meat shield to make your attacks invisible.

As someone who very much likes the stab change this thread is about, id be much more against slashes getting the same treatment in those rare situations it actually works, if it works as i theorize.

[final jungle]

@surreal socket but you believe that you should be rewarded for slashing into the back of your teammates and into an enemy player?

Or should the slash hit stop

And why?

[surreal socket]

Because if you do it intentionally it doesnt work ? Likely only works if they are off screen or max distance from your swing, and due to the nature of the angles involved, the enemies teammate will never obscure the other enemy's character or swing

[final jungle]

@surreal socket again I've seen high level player abuse and use this "feature" if we want to curb team damage/team cleave abuse we have to treat all weapon equally.

This shouldn't have been a feature to begin with and we are just starting to see the real issue 2 years after game release.

If your weapon hit a team-mate it should hitstop no questions asked.

[surreal socket]

I just flat out disagree there. If they have the ability to make certain points of swings hit-stop or not I think thats a good thing that could contribute to a better game, its nuanced and someone put that mechanic in for a reason. Having the attitude "All hit stop is good" is just kind of black and white thinking. If you have any clips of this so called abuse, i'd love to see them, but as someone with a lot of hours in long range weapons, I dont ever see how it could be used in the way you are suggesting.

[final jungle]

@surreal socket on one hand you say that it happens on the other you say that it's not a problem? I'm starting to think you're opinion is biased.

[surreal socket]

I'm starting to think you are arguing to change something you don't fully understand. I admit I dont fully understand them.

[final jungle]

@surreal socket again if a dev would help explain why this happens with slashes it would help us all understand better

[surreal socket]

or the supposed users of this "forbidden" technique. If the contrast in comparing these two things as equal problems isnt hitting you in the face by now, it should. One is not even fully understood, the second a monkey could do reliably.

[final jungle]

@surreal socket again I've seen the player I've listed do it very reliability in casual to.

Team cleave is a crutch we shouldn't have in this game

[surreal socket]

Do you have clips ?

[final jungle]

@surreal socket do you think that team cleave doesn't exist?

[surreal socket]

I know it exists, but the "Reliably" part i doubt.

[final jungle]

But you believe that it's a part of the game and should stay as is?

[surreal socket]

If its for the reason I believe its intended for, then yes it should stay in. If there is a way to do it reliably that obscures swings and characters. Then no.

[final jungle]

@surreal socket bet brother.

So you believe you should gain an advantage from slashing your teammates?

It's a black and white issue for me if you fail with a slash ex hitting a teammate you should swap into an overhead.

Your slash,stab,and orverhead should never be reward team damage.

[surreal socket]

I believe there should be a reasonable margin of error for people who attempt to miss teammates, and having that be possible via changing which tracer does and doesnt hit-stop is a good way to do it. Exec Axe, Greatsword, HS, Halberd ect are all popular weapons. Swings are the good-to attack for newbs. Making them game clunkier for them, and honestly everyone, is not a healthy change.

[final jungle]

@surreal socket again you could make the argument for stab as well given that you have a majority of players on console.

[surreal socket]

They are not comparable situations to me in the slightest. The only compareable thing is the words "Hit-stop"

[final jungle]

@surreal socket absolute garbage brother

You deny any mergin of error for new players or console players, because all they can do is stab and overhead.

[final jungle]

But you would allow slashes to benefit from team damage and improper positioning

[surreal socket]

The stab change effected 100% of stabs, and the change you are referring to effects 5-10% of swings at most. Stabs are targetted attacks that don't have the issue of spreading out over a large area and hitting unintented targets in mass chaos. The only thing the stab change really hurt was when some newb jumps in front of your stab unknowingly.

There is no reason to do the same mechanic with stabs, its a straight tube.

[final jungle]

@surreal socket but now you would say 5-10% of your slashes benefit from team cleave?

[surreal socket]

A rough estimate based on how often it happens to me

[final jungle]

@surreal socket so you could provide a clip of this happening?

As it is not as rare as you you made it out to be?

[surreal socket]

I would honestly ask what your intentions are with the change, because you havent even been able to verify if the tactic is reliably performed, or that it even provides an advantage other than not stopping your swing... like the stab change did. The stab change was 100% reliable and was done intentionally to gain an advantage.

[final jungle]

@surreal socket slashes are a hit that lands for 50-80 dmg. A stab on spear is 50

[surreal socket]

So what are your intentions for the change, what are you trying to fix? Other than provide meaningless symmetry to all hit-stop mechanics

[surreal socket]

5% isnt rare?

[final jungle]

I'm trying to have an equal playing field for all weapons involving team cleave

And I agree 100% with the stab changes

[surreal socket]

It already exists ?

Whats unfair about it

[earnest ivy]

idk if I'd call it so rare its some silly forbidden technique. Heavy cleaving through team mates has been around since day 1, and yeah it ain't some level 10 default footmen move but it's definitely not some rare thing only 3 duelest in the world know how to do or anything. It happens quite a bit in TO matches, both by accident with people who dont even know they are doing it, and by higher skilled players who do.

I'm with royal that hitstop should hitstop 100%

Especially so since there are 29485729456829452 cleave side spam weapons in the game.

I'd be more apt to forgive it if it was just like, a few specific weapons designed around that mechanic

[final jungle]

This is the goat put some respect on his name@earnest ivy

[surreal socket]

How do you do it ?

[final jungle]

@surreal socket how about you learn by trial and error like the greats

[earnest ivy]

it happens at certain points in the animation when you drag/accel

kinda like how you sometimes hitstop on a wall

[surreal socket]

Stay mad

[earnest ivy]

yet other times blades go through it like it oesn'tr exist

[final jungle]

@surreal socket not mad brother just doing what's right

Fixing this game for the better

[surreal socket]

Raging for changes you dont fully understand aint right my guy. Why are you trying to derail my attempt to learn about it?

[earnest ivy]

full, complete, pure hitstop would encourage people to play better, have better positioning, etc

[surreal socket]

Can you be more specific about this part?

[earnest ivy]

hopefully also cut down the egregious amount of big slow weapon cleavers that play the game cuz easymode

[final jungle]

@surreal socket stopping you from learning the exploit before its patched family

Casuals read this

[surreal socket]

So what? Bro take a shower 😂

[earnest ivy]

there are points in the beginning of the animation where that shit is 'happening' no matter what, and I think the end also but I'm not sure on that

[final jungle]

@surreal socket I'm so clean bby

[earnest ivy]

I dont play big cleave weapons anymore so its been a hot minute

[surreal socket]

so it sounds like you dont really know either to be honest

[earnest ivy]

It sounds like you expect someone to bust out video proof with timings to be accepted as proof it exists

I'm sure they are out there if you look

[surreal socket]

I know it exists, I just can only theorize of its intention based on what i've seen

If it was easily repetable, someone would already have had the answer

[earnest ivy]

It has to do with windup/release/etc shit. Thats different for everyone weapon as is the animation so tehre isn't much better of a way to explain it generically other than that

Go get some homies to stand aroujnd you in an empty server

pull out your axe, try dragging and acceling at different points

[surreal socket]

It doesnt seem to have anything to do with wind-up, only something to do with the timing of the release

[earnest ivy]

like someone close to your back and right when you swing from the right to left

[final jungle]

Brother you have no idea

This is high level shit

[surreal socket]

? Its not like I havent noticed when it happens

Why would wind-up even be a factor

[final jungle]

?

[surreal socket]

unless its just another feint glitch

which doesnt really align with my experience of it

[earnest ivy]

I dont thikn it has anything to do with feinting. I remember doing it in the first few weeks of beta/release when I didn't even understand what feinting really was. Just spammin the dane axe accels and drags

and it got even easier to do with bigger slower weapons like war axes, exec axe, etc

[final jungle]

It's an obvious exploit and Hopefully the devs will patch this along with the stab change.

[earnest ivy]

think devs already said the heavy stab thwack is happening, just not this patch or something

But I'm all for weapons being equal across the board for thwacks and then balance passes taking place. The endless war axe/exec axe/highland/GS drag spam is annoying

be nice to have weapons have more unique roles

[surreal socket]

The only theory i have for it being intentional is that it makes bigger weapons less awkward ... by letting hitstop pass through friendlies when its at max arch away from you

[earnest ivy]

like shit, maybe nerf the exec axe a lil, but then give it team mate drag through on purpose

[final jungle]

Cleaving teammates was an obvious design choice but now it's being changed 2 years in

If it wasn't purposely put in the game all weapons would twack from the start

[surreal socket]

All weapons arn't equal. When the game first launched 1-h weapons were super OP

[final jungle]

Now it's shifted and we are looking to balance the game again

[surreal socket]

If making the game feel shittier is your idea of balance, then count me out lol

[earnest ivy]

newsflash: the game has been getting shittier for the last year

but its pretty fair to ask for all weapons to thwack in all scenarios without saying its going to be a detriment to the game. It would ideally teach better play for people.

I dont like getting cleaved through by team mates nor do I like when some oppoenent is hugging a wall on their side and somehow swing right through that shit when my shit thwacks

big axe men should be cleaving through enemies, not walls or team mates.

[surreal socket]

I think its reasonable for Dagger, and oh idk, greatsword, to have slightly different rules. Not apposed to that at all.

Fast weapons like dagger can cheat initiative like crazy... or should they just remove that and make all weapons "On an even playing field" ?

[earnest ivy]

I dont think I've ever been cleaved through with a dagger or done it myself

this isn't about all weapons being equal, I clearly gave an example even of making a weapon more unique by allowing that SPECIFIC one to cleave through, it just needs to be nerfed in other ways to make it feel and perform different while not being too OP on its own

Current state of the game though, there are a lot of 2h cleavy weapons that seem to do this bad behavior, just like the stab through wasn't anywhere close to 'just spears'

[surreal socket]

Well I honestly think the conversation needs more details and information, because no one can even fully verify why the cleaves happen or if they have an intended purpose.

[earnest ivy]

now its being nerfed, not because 'just spears' but because its just a bad mechanic all around for all the weapons that do it

[surreal socket]

I want the game to be fun at the end of the day, and to still attract new players.

[earnest ivy]

I mean, thats kinda on TB to take a deep look into it. I dont put the time and effort into a game to where is a job to find out exactly at what point in their mechanics this shit happens. I just know it happens, it happens a fair amount, and people definitely do it on purpose.

Yeah I want the same.

but I dont want it to be easymode spam to cater to new players who dont wanna learn the game either.

[surreal socket]

Everyone wanted "Active parry" to be more reliable, and we got a massive block width change that arguably, everyone hated even more. Changes manifest in our head differently than they do in reality.

I just would like more information on how they work and why they work.

[earnest ivy]

Like autoparry windows and block hitboxes have been broken af for what feels like a year. Seems like everytime a new wave of 'new players' is coming they easymode it up for em because suddenly I'm hitting dudes direct in the back between the shoulderblades with a spear and they magically block

etc. Cleave through is just more garbage that needs to be filtered out so people have to learn to aim their strikes, work around their team mates, and can't just button mash their way around to success.

well the problem is autoparry and block sizes used to work WAY BETTER in the early days

you could reliable autoparry for 1vX if you knew what you were doing, but also some scrub could still pop you in the back. Lately it's like the timings are all fucked, desync'd, and the block boxes people have are so huge they dont even need to be anywhere close to facing the direction of the attacks, but only sometimes. Other times I'll autoparry and it just says nah, and I get hit by the dude right next to the dude in front of my I just autoparried off of

I'll be the first to admit I dont know for sure all the technical reasons. But I do know back when this game was only on epic it played a fuckload better and cleaner. I play with a lot of the peasant cap tester bois and these complaints have been voiced for a long time.

[surreal socket]

I think thats debatable... things have gotten fixed, some things have gotten worse, but its still a net positive by a long shot

[earnest ivy]

I'm talking only about these specific combat mechanics.

obv lots of stuff has improved in the game. I still play it 2 years later

maybe consoles can't handle high tick rate servers and thats whats require for us to have smooove feeling parries and not need giant block boxes, who knows. I can only guess. That's TB backend shit

maybe cleave through happens more often when clients are not sync'd as well to each other and the server, making it easier to exploit by long/off timed drag weapons where I see i thappen the most. Again, can only guess but TB doesn't really tell us shit about the technical back end of things.

[lament bone]

Yall are wasting your time. Moral of the story is the vast majority of players just slash and can't stab. So they loudly complain about stabs. Stab focused weapons will keep getting nerfed because they are a minority. They have nerfed stab damages, turn caps, range, you name it. Don't expect the devs to be fair and apply the same principles to slashes; they will just keep catering to the majority.

[mossy hedge]

Slashes do hitstop on teammates

Stabs should also hitstop on teammates

This isn't a change that the loud dumb majority is asking for, this is a change that the comp community is asking for, along with some casual players. It's not that huge of a problem in casual play as you said, becuase most players don't know how to stab.

[final jungle]

@lament bone @mossy hedge we are asking that all slashes, stabs, and overheads should hit stop when they contact teammates 100% of the time.

We were heard by the devs in this thread earlier addressing that the stab change wouldn't only effect the spear but all weapons.

And we are asking for a fair playing feild and a black and white look at team cleave.

[mossy hedge]

It was never intended to only effect spears

[final jungle]

@mossy hedge fair play.

[lament bone]

Oh gotcha. I thought some slashes don't stop on teammates.

[mossy hedge]

No it's just a weird thing with how they made the end of the slash and the very beginning of the swing not hitstop on teammates. I assume it's to prevent the game feeling clunky always hitting stuff and not being able to swing

[final jungle]

But still we would like to see twacking on all weapons that team cleave and I believe that

@mossy hedge read what @earnest ivy wrote earlier, we've have a bigger issue

[lament bone]

I see, well then they should fix that too. That's only fair.

[final jungle]

@lament bone thank you brother

[mossy hedge]

I assume they will do the same thing with stabs where the whole hitbox doesn't hitstop in order to make it not feel terrible

Right now it feels terrible, being able to stab completely through teammates

Thwacking on more world objects would be nice in some situations becuase people can straight up hide an animation in a wall

[final jungle]

@mossy hedge we don't want to promote team damage though

[mossy hedge]

There is a big difference between 1/6 of your weapon being able to phase through a teammate and the entire thing

One of them is a fix purposefully put in to make the game feel better, the other is an oversight

[final jungle]

And slashing into the backs of your team mates is being used by high level players @forest horizon @weak glade

[mossy hedge]

I doubt they want you to keep pinging them given they haven't responded here

[final jungle]

They have real life to deal with homi

@earnest ivy is another member that plays with them and he will and has said the same thing

[mossy hedge]

I'd be fine to test out full hitstop on teammates if the devs want us to

Mordhau does it I'm pretty sure

[final jungle]

Seems only fair imo

[mossy hedge]

You can't really swing or stab through teammates at all in that game

[final jungle]

It should be consistent

[mossy hedge]

I'm fine with that but like everything we should test it to see how it feels first

[final jungle]

It should roll out with the heavy stab change. I completely agree it should be tested.

But this will only effect poor foot work

With proper footwork we shouldn't need this crutch which we all have been using for 2 years.

[final jungle]

And devs that read this please make this change black and white.

[errant oak]

Has anyone tried this change on controller ?

[final jungle]

@errant oak I haven't yet but will try to play spear with controller when the change is implemented.

@earnest ivy said that with he was having a hard time with the 1h spear in the test server. Given that he's top 10 in chiv stats 1h spear his opinion is greatly appreciated.

[errant oak]

I personally am on board 100% for hitstop on teammates for stabs and i’m a halberd/sword/LS/rapier main but I can see it being a bit more of a hit to controller users who are kinda already missing some of the granular control of their aim compared to a that of a mouse.

[final jungle]

Time will tell my friend I also agree with the change. but controller players are my main concern with this patch

[last prairie]

that should be more of a problem being that the test server is limited to players with Epic keys and we had some of the most stacked lobbies in chiv history on there because almost everyone else with an Epic key has quit the game by now

the 1h spear is a fundamentally limited weapon moreso than the 2h spear and you'd be hard pressed not to run into the level of player who can exploit it on those servers

which is one of the problems with them running test servers on Epic only and expecting to get good data

[warm wing]

why cant there just be reverse team damage like any other game, that would turn this into a non-issue

3 minutes in and all the people stabbing through teammates might as well be spamming f10

[earnest ivy]

Team damage and reflection would both need to occur or it can incentive troll behavior. Instead of teamkilling on purpose ppl would just block you in. Damage to both parties would prob keep it limited.

Eithet way though, looking forward to hopefuly all swings thwacking, no more weirdguant axes somehow swinging through a building and hitting me, and being more frustrated hy team mates getting in my way but hopefully learning spacing.

And then ideally some weapon rebalance visits.

Thats about 2 years of tb work though.

[radiant sundial]

just make team damage reflect back to user I mean they should be getting punished not the teammate

[final jungle]

@last prairie honestly this whole thing is mostly likely my fault. I was stabbing Jeb through my teammates when he took over a duel server and I dropped 100 td on his head.

I'm sorry for my sins chiv community and I will reform.

[gaunt wasp]

I support this but only if it applies to stabs on spears specifically
not for any real reason I just think it’d be funny

[low barn]

makes me think of an armor set that does thorn damage +4

[balmy terrace]

If there is thwacking im in

[real mortar]

I am disappointed in this thread

That's all.

[coral ginkgo]

Cope

[final jungle]

Coping well @coral ginkgo

@coral ginkgo only going to hurt control players zzzzz

[prisma nest]

https://tenor.com/view/what-why-huh-steve-harvey-confused-gif-17449734

https://tenor.com/view/we-are-having-a-conversation-father-chuck-blood-and-treasure-were-having-a-chat-were-having-a-discussion-gif-26360842

https://tenor.com/view/fighting-cole-marmalade-cole-and-marmalade-cat-fight-gif-25706787

[final jungle]

[placid orbit]

Nerf anything that kills through teammates.
What kind of game is it to hide behind teammates, give them teamdamage and getting hundreds kills like this.
They would think of themselves as good players, I bet.

[final jungle]

Slashes are next beware you 360 swinging vanilla knights.

[pale lynx]

you already get negative points for hitting a teammate it does not encourage hitting teammates imo. it should depend on the length of the weapon.

[rustic grotto]

you don't get negative points until you actually teamkill, just hitting them only deals damage to them

[pale lynx]

true, honestly you should get negative points by just hitting a teammate.

[rustic grotto]

this change isn't meant to firther discourage teamdamage though, it's meant to remove the ability to stab through teammates

[pale lynx]

only time thats happened for me is on accident but if people are doing it on purpose id say it would be a good change then

[rustic grotto]

people have and probably will until the update

[pale lynx]

well you should be able to stab through 2 enemies if you have a really long weapon and heavy stab with it but not on teammates lol thatd be cool

[ancient wing]

What're you talking about. Slashes already bounce off teammates

[rustic grotto]

stabs will only have the hitstop when they hit teammates, you'll be able to stab multiple enemies at once if your weapon is long enough

that's not something they're changing, they just want to stop people who are intentionally damaging their teammates to get an advantage

[earnest ivy]

There are points in the animation where you can absolutely drag a slash weapon right through your team mate (and even walls) and hit the enemy on the other side of em.

And hopefully it also gets a deep dive fix

[final jungle]

@ancient wing you must run around To like a youngling if you dint know about this exploit buddy

[ancient wing]

Ur funny

[final jungle]

@ancient wing ty

[last prairie]

people aren't just doing it on purpose. It's the dominant competitive level strategy. They'll have to add team hitstop on heavy stabs too, but Connect already said that's on the table.
it's also not about further disincentivizing team damage, but about not incentivizing team damage.

[mossy hedge]

This is true but my assumption is that stabs will have the same area of free play

If done correctly, some portion of the stab hit box will still cleave to make the game not feel clunky. The same way they did it for slash and oh

[final jungle]

As a spear main we want hitstop to effect everyone equally.

[surreal socket]

Now this is all adding up... youre lookin for revenge 😂

[final jungle]

Equally my friend Equally.

[verbal wolf]

good

[final jungle]

So I've recently been taking up halberg, and I have to say the team cleave is absolutely devastating. How could you people be complaining about blatant team damage with stabs when I can drag a heavy overhead team cleave with 0 repercussions for 70 damage.

This is disgusting and I will be abusing this technique until its properly patched.

[surreal socket]

You cant overhead through teammates

[final jungle]

@surreal socket brother

The amount of team cleave I am able to achieve is amazing

[surreal socket]

Proud of you for pickin a new weapon though lol

How ?

[final jungle]

@surreal socket I plan on abusing this for the next 2 years so ima keep it under wraps. I am able the same amount of team cleave that I was able to do with spear, but worse now.

[surreal socket]

I rarely hit teammates, my aim in impeccable. I wouldn't know

[final jungle]

@surreal socket this is my final rant about the stab change.

[surreal socket]

Have fun i guess 😂

[final jungle]

@surreal socket see u in game bby

[soft cosmos]

What is takedown threshold?

[warm wing]

like 25

[soft cosmos]

But what is takedown

[warm wing]

whenever you do 25 damage to someone and they die you get a takedown

[winter tide]

I would like to think that one day the horses will reach 64p, also, what is the reason to remove tdm in 64p, I still do not understand, the worst thing is that I just read it

[real mortar]

Im glad theres no horses or tdm

Especially tdm

I always see half the ppl in the lobby leave whenever desert or some shit like that comes up

Maybe a separate TDM mode could be added

[last prairie]

the TDM audience is not the TO audience and it was a poor decision to mix those modes at all in the first place

TDM deserves a queue though

I wouldn't play it

[winter tide]

I think they mixed for the reason of few maps, and classic chivalry 1 game modes, and yes, maybe a queue for TDM would be better

[winter tide]

I don't know the truth, but I find it funny that when the horses were released several people complained that there were no horses in 64p, and in fact people who usually play at 40p don't like horses because they simply prefer to play more quietly, I think the public is changing, the truth is that we are no longer the same people who played before.

[real mortar]

We live in a world where nobody wants us, our time is over and a new age is coming.

This is me after 2+ years of chivalry. It's time to retire.

[wide egret]

this is something very interesting and I think a core failure of the chivalry combat system. In this clip I input a slash counter but I am interrupted by a exe axe heavy slash that cleaves through its teammate and then collides with my front. Yet I don't get the counter. I know this is caused by a handle hit on my left shoulder, however I think its preposterous that back parrying is as prevalent as it is yet axes find a way to non-intuitively get around parry through the front with slashes. Also, I don't like any cleaving through teammates. As you can see the vanguard entered my field of view at the last second and was only able to hit me going through a teammate. I also don't think that weapons should phase through any walls what so ever. It is almost impossible to predict whether a swing will phase through a world object or collide with it.

'

[wide egret]

also by making all walls always collide will result in more dynamic gameplay where shorter weapons will thrive even more indoors and in close quarters and the opposite for big weapons like halberd, GS, spear ect.

[fallen timber]

cleaving through teammates it absolute balooney, another thing is swinging tru walls and solid objects, having a decent stop on teammates and worl hit reg would raise the skill ceiling 10 folds

[fallen timber]

i support this fully but i think people who are used to big ahh weapons would cmplain a lot

not everyone knows how to stab apparently but damn seeing those giant axe n sword fly inside a wall without stopping its infuriating

[last prairie]

it would also make things more consistent in general, as it's both weird and hard to read when people inconsistently swing through walls

[stray bramble]

Yeah if it would be consistent than I would be more than happy... But hitting trough one flagpole, but not trough another is weird. It neither let's one plan to hit trough walls nor hide behind them since you never know the stopping power of them 😄

[broken ermine]

Very reasonable, approved🦦

[wide egret]

Also you shouldn’t be able to receive riposte or counters from teammates. It’s silly and there is no justification for it in a 1vX

[foggy mason]

Just remove teammate damage especially on artillery like catapults.

[last prairie]

sun god you reminded me I was going to make a thread specifically mentioning that. Given that team damage is so low and there's no risk to being able to be fed riposte or counter it just makes the game feel bad on the receiving end

[wide egret]

did active parry work? Send you guess now for a chance to win!

[fallen timber]

ahhh 500$ on no

[wide egret]

axe handle hits are brazyyyyyyyyyyy

[fallen timber]

https://tenor.com/view/elbow-destruction-demo-self-defense-fight-gif-16908670

lets pretend his elbow broke your wrists

[last prairie]

the dane axe walks through the center and gamble slashes through your active parry

[vale pike]

dont bother with axe balance they wont do it . most people dont bother to rebind stab overhead keys and learn how to use them. its easier to just left click and axe your way through everything while basicly doing heavy slashes that come out quick like its a light attack into instant block stance lol.

and this stabbing though teammates should be patched ages ago . but why nerf stab / oberhead damage on every weapon well i geuss they want this game to be casual and its ok but atleast it would be nice to have some viarity in weapon selection.

played couple of matched with the axe yesterday and got bored fast same movfe over and over again but it works lol

[last prairie]

there's more to slashing than slashing, a lot more. I tell newish players this often this. Your slash and my slash are not truly the same.
You should be using other things, but slashes are bread and butter for a reason.

[final jungle]

Patch slashes while your at it TB